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Speaker 1: It looks like something else, so it looks like we're

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Speaker 1: fighting about money, but in actual fact, what we're fighting

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Speaker 1: about a lot of the time is we've lost our

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Speaker 1: way with each other.

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Speaker 2: So we just don't know how to connect.

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Speaker 1: And I think as you go through marriage, the challenge

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Speaker 1: is how do you stay connected by continually getting to

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Speaker 1: know who your partner is as they continue to grow,

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Speaker 1: change and evolve.

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Speaker 3: Welcome to separate bathrooms. We would like to acknowledge the

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Speaker 3: traditional custodians of the land on which we records podcast,

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Speaker 3: the Gadigel people of the EU nation. We pay our

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Speaker 3: respects to elders past and presence. Welcome to separate bathroom.

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Speaker 3: Tim cam Dado, this is my wife Ali Dado, and

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Speaker 3: we've got a great start to the year.

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Speaker 4: We do, we do, We've We're excited to have this

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Speaker 4: couple on. It's slightly unusual in a sense. These two

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Speaker 4: they work together their relationship therapists, they're psychologists, they've built

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Speaker 4: a business together. So that's going to be really interesting

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Speaker 4: to talk to them about how they work together in

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Speaker 4: that sense and where their work takes them, you know,

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Speaker 4: do they take it home with them and is there

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Speaker 4: of a conflict within their space of their work.

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Speaker 3: Yes, and I'm actually looking forward to some I don't know,

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Speaker 3: I want to say hacks, but I don't like that term.

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Speaker 3: But you know, some advice and some tips on how

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Speaker 3: to better navigate the relationship. Yeah. Absolutely, and I think

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Speaker 3: this is a perfect way to begin. Twenty twenty three.

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Speaker 4: Kerry and Adrian Lumbiu. They run a business called Motivating Marriages,

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Speaker 4: and it exists to see couples not just survive their relationships,

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Speaker 4: but to thrive in it and be all the more

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Speaker 4: better for haven for having chosen love. Isn't that sweet?

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Speaker 3: It's great of that. Let's bring them into the bathroom.

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Speaker 3: Kerry an Adrian. Welcome Adrian and Kerrie to the bathroom.

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Speaker 5: Thanks guys, look.

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Speaker 3: At you You're a vision, you two. How are you.

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Speaker 5: Well? Thank you?

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Speaker 4: Are you are the both of you talking to us

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Speaker 4: from your home or from your business home office home office?

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Speaker 4: Very good. Obviously you two work together. This is what

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Speaker 4: we're curious about and to hear all about the work

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Speaker 4: that both of you actually do. But we whenever we

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Speaker 4: get couples on, we always love to get their love

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Speaker 4: story first, of course, because it's our favorite thing. So

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Speaker 4: how did you two actually meet.

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Speaker 6: Do you want me to go, Well, it depends which

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Speaker 6: part of the story, So we want their truth.

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Speaker 4: The truth.

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Speaker 1: We actually officially met in prison, so that's how we met,

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Speaker 1: and that's always a really great story to tell people

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Speaker 1: who don't know that we're actually psychologists. It's nice to

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Speaker 1: see their faces. Yeah.

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Speaker 5: The real story, well that is the real The real

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Speaker 5: story is that we actually well I saw Kerry three

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Speaker 5: times actually, and one was when we were both at

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Speaker 5: the same UNI, but we're in different courses. But we

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Speaker 5: had I guess a crossover in one of the subjects there,

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Speaker 5: and I saw her sort of sitting outside one of

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Speaker 5: the electure holes. She grabbed my attention. You know, I

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Speaker 5: don't think she saw me though, So that was the

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Speaker 5: first thing. Then second, we met at the same job

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Speaker 5: interview in one of the prisons. We're going for the

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Speaker 5: same position in one of the prisons there, So we

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Speaker 5: met in the do you want to tell the story?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, we met in the interview process. And so I

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Speaker 1: was sitting there preparing for my interview and this very

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Speaker 1: polite gentleman comes up to offer me a glass of

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Speaker 1: water while he was getting himself one, and I flatly

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Speaker 1: refused because he was the competition.

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Speaker 3: I'm getting that I thought it was nice, was something

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Speaker 3: that was something diabolical in the water.

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Speaker 5: And I can assure you there was not just good

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Speaker 5: intentions there. So she refused. But anyway, so I ended

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Speaker 5: up getting the job. Though. I'll just tell you.

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Speaker 1: Guys that say, I just have to say that is

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Speaker 1: no indication if it's a better psychologist, that too, no competition.

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Speaker 5: But then officially, yeah, we met in one of the

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Speaker 5: prisons that we both worked at, were colleagues, they're both

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Speaker 5: psychologists in one of those Sydney prisons, and yeah, we

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Speaker 5: just sort of met there and the rest is history,

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Speaker 5: as they say.

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Speaker 3: We met.

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Speaker 1: Really, yeah, we worked close together, and probably one of

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Speaker 1: the things that attracted us opposed to each other about

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Speaker 1: each other was just how we both really loved justice,

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Speaker 1: not just justice for the clients that we were working with,

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Speaker 1: but the injustice of the system that we were working

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Speaker 1: in was something that was really challenging for both of us,

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Speaker 1: and our hearts and our minds met over that, really,

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Speaker 1: and that's been something that has been just a bit

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Speaker 1: of a solid rock throughout our life. We're pretty big

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Speaker 1: justice seekers, and we like to do things right, and

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Speaker 1: we like people to be honored and respected and valued,

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Speaker 1: and when we see that not happening, that's something that

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Speaker 1: we always come back to in a line on So

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Speaker 1: it's nice to have that.

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Speaker 4: That's a really powerful connection to have. Actually, Yes, when

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Speaker 4: your values match on such a deep level like that,

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Speaker 4: that's a that's a great connection to have. So, yeah,

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Speaker 4: I can understand why you were both so attracted to

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Speaker 4: each other from from that perspective alone, so not to

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Speaker 4: as a very good looking So.

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Speaker 3: So, als do you want to ask? Do you want

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Speaker 3: to ask? So? I thought I thought you might have

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Speaker 3: answered this question already. But so when you did see

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Speaker 3: each other, was it love at first sight?

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Speaker 5: I definitely noticed Carrie it's a uni because she had

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Speaker 5: jet black hair, if you could believe that looking at

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Speaker 5: it now, and jet black hair, and so I really

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Speaker 5: caught my attention. I thought she looks very nice. But

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Speaker 5: I didn't approach her or anything like that, but she

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Speaker 5: definitely sort of stuck in my mind. And then when

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Speaker 5: we met at the prison, the prior actual prison, Yeah,

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Speaker 5: we like the stuff we were talking about before. It

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Speaker 5: was very quick attraction because we found that we could

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Speaker 5: just talk to each other, we could talk about meaningful

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Speaker 5: things connect emotionally on certain topics that carry has just

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Speaker 5: talked about. So it was quite easy, wasn't that.

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Speaker 6: Yeah?

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Speaker 5: It was yeah. Yeah.

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Speaker 4: Do you think that's an actual thing? Love at first sight?

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Speaker 4: About asking you to relationship experts, Well.

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Speaker 2: There's definitely components.

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Speaker 1: I mean, science has shown us like the importance of

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Speaker 1: the Limerens effect, so things like that chemical attraction lust

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Speaker 1: is what people call it generally, and that's very real.

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Speaker 1: So like we instinctively like the smells of certain types

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Speaker 1: of people, and we instinctively feel opposed to the smells

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Speaker 1: of certain.

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Speaker 2: Types of people as well, And similarly.

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Speaker 1: Like we like the look of and types of people

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Speaker 1: and other people we don't like the look of. That

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Speaker 1: doesn't necessarily mean it's going to lead to really long lasting,

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Speaker 1: healthy love relationships, but definitely we I would agree that

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Speaker 1: attraction at first sight is official and absolutely often say

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Speaker 1: to my clients, you know, the limeerates is what brings

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Speaker 1: us together, attracts us first, but love is what actually

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Speaker 1: keeps us together.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, So when you say love it first time, maybe

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Speaker 5: it's limerates at first time. Maybe I don't know. But

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Speaker 5: after the limits effectsor of dies down, then you can

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Speaker 5: actually really work out whether are you really connected emotionally?

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Speaker 4: Yeah? Right, what is that work? I've never heard that

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Speaker 4: limerates limerates effect. I like that word. It's kind of

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Speaker 4: sounds like angelic, you know what I mean. It's got

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Speaker 4: kind of this ethereal quality to it.

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Speaker 3: I like, is it the E n C part of it,

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Speaker 3: like phosphorescence or.

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Speaker 4: Yeah? I think that might be it classier version of lust.

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Speaker 3: Most about last year okay, yeah, a lot to try.

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Speaker 4: So you dated for how long before the proposals?

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Speaker 1: I think we're only dating about eleven months, but then

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Speaker 1: we were friends probably about seven months.

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Speaker 4: Beforehand yep, yep, and Adrian had that proposal go.

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Speaker 5: So we it was very clear that we were going

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Speaker 5: to I was going to pop the question, so to speak.

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Speaker 5: And we'd gone and designed the ring together. So we've

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Speaker 5: done all that stuff.

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Speaker 4: Together, okay.

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Speaker 5: And Carrie's Carrie's various stuarts. She can read she can

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Speaker 5: read you just by looking at you, to put it

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Speaker 5: that way. And I had to try my real best

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Speaker 5: how to support well, to think about how to surprise her.

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Speaker 3: Uh.

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Speaker 5: And so we're going on this drive holiday up to

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Speaker 5: Brisbane I think it was Brisbane And at the beginning

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Speaker 5: of the troop, I sort of said to look, Darla,

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Speaker 5: know that you really wanted, you know, to get engaged

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Speaker 5: on this trip, but the ring's not ready. And I

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Speaker 5: called the guy and it's just not ready. Lo and behold. However, however,

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Speaker 5: I'd already organized with the guy I haven't done before

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Speaker 5: we left, so I actually had it. I called her

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Speaker 5: and then when I ended up proposing on a you know,

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Speaker 5: were caravan just by the water, you know, this dingy

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Speaker 5: caravan park one night, and I surprised hers, so she

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Speaker 5: thought it was a joke at first, but that.

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Speaker 2: Wasn't It was a very good trick.

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Speaker 1: We liked to joke with each other quite a lot,

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Speaker 1: so it was quite quite well done. And when I

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Speaker 1: got the ring, it was dark when he proposed, so

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Speaker 1: I didn't know if it was real, and.

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Speaker 2: I'm like, did you get this out on one of

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Speaker 2: those bubble gum machines?

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Speaker 4: Like is it really?

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Speaker 5: So?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And then I was pretty horrified because I saw

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Speaker 1: the size of the ring and I'm not a jewelry person,

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Speaker 1: and it's actually not that big.

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Speaker 2: But when I saw it, I was like, oh, cheer,

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Speaker 2: I don't know.

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Speaker 3: It was lovely, lovely I'm sorry because it was too

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Speaker 3: big or too small, too big.

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Speaker 1: But it's not actually that big, like it's actually I'm

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Speaker 1: just not a fl That was a.

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Speaker 2: Bit sparkly, but I've got it now. That's fine.

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Speaker 3: You've been you've been working together for how many years?

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Speaker 1: Well, we've worked together for probably about eighteen maybe not

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Speaker 1: even eighteen months, so we didn't actually stay in the

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Speaker 1: prison system.

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Speaker 2: For too much longer.

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Speaker 1: So there was a lot going on there and we decided,

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Speaker 1: for circumstances there, decided to leave the prison system. So

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Speaker 1: we went off into different jobs for a short period

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Speaker 1: of time. I went off to the Independent Commission against

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Speaker 1: Corruption to do some investigations work, and Adrian went off

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Speaker 1: to the New South Wales on Budsman and did some investigations.

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Speaker 1: So we had probably about maybe six probably about twelve

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Speaker 1: months working separately before we then came back and started

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Speaker 1: working together in private practice after we got married.

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Speaker 3: And how has that been? Are they highs and lows

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Speaker 3: to it? And how do you sort of navigate your

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Speaker 3: world doing that working together?

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Speaker 5: We went very well together. Yeah, I'm really happy to say, yeah,

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Speaker 5: very well. We've got we've got the same types of

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Speaker 5: goals business wise, and Carrie carry's She comes up with

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Speaker 5: a lot of ideas and she's the ideas person.

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Speaker 2: The executioner.

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Speaker 3: So you have yours.

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Speaker 2: Clearly defined.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And that's actually one of the things that we

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Speaker 1: know about happy couples is they have really clearly defined

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Speaker 1: roles in their relationship, not specifically gender roles, but just

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Speaker 1: this is what I'm this is what you're good at.

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Speaker 1: Let's work towards our strengths. And that's something that we do,

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Speaker 1: both personally and professionally quite a lot.

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Speaker 3: Do we do that?

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Speaker 4: Well, you are really good at taking out the rubbish.

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Speaker 3: And barbecuing, and I'm really.

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Speaker 4: Good at cleaning the stove top. That's yeah, it's little things.

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Speaker 4: Sometimes I think we still get a bit stuck with

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Speaker 4: thinking is he going to do it? Is she going

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Speaker 4: to do it? We probably have a bit of that,

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Speaker 4: but I think that we're fairly defined.

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Speaker 3: In our role defined.

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Speaker 4: I think fairly well we have been. I think it's

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Speaker 4: changed in the last couple of years though, since I've

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Speaker 4: been so much busier. You had to sort of do

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Speaker 4: more than you normally would.

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Speaker 3: We started writing a script together a couple of years ago,

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Speaker 3: and that was an interesting flipping and flopping of like

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Speaker 3: how do we do that? Do you guys share an office?

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Speaker 3: I mean, do you actually share a physical space or

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Speaker 3: in different rooms?

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Speaker 2: We're in different rooms.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think that's one of the things people think,

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Speaker 1: like how do you work together? And we spend a

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Speaker 1: lot of time together personally as well, like two peas

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Speaker 1: in a pod. And I said, well, actually, we don't

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Speaker 1: really spend a lot of time together at work, Like

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Speaker 1: the role of us, like ologists, is actually really quite autonomous.

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Speaker 1: You're in your room with your door closed with your

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Speaker 1: clients for like eight hours a day.

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Speaker 2: So it's actually nice to have lunch together. I quite enjoyed.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, it's we don't actually spend heaps of time together.

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Speaker 1: I think the biggest challenge we had have had running

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Speaker 1: businesses together, because we've got a couple of businesses, was

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Speaker 1: very early on in our marriage were quite perfectionistic. So

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Speaker 1: we decided we were going to do everything, so book

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Speaker 1: the clientcy and do the accounts, do the clinical work.

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Speaker 1: And at one point, I'm sure our neighbors.

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Speaker 2: Would have thought to you, their marriage is we're going

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Speaker 2: to last very long.

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Speaker 1: When we were sitting downstairs trying to do the accounts

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Speaker 1: because I think we could have killed each other.

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Speaker 2: And it came to a blow.

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Speaker 1: We're Adrian just looked at me and said, Kerry, one

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Speaker 1: of two things has got to happen. You've either got

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Speaker 1: to do this by yourself or I've got to do

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Speaker 1: it by myself. But we can't do it together anymore.

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Speaker 1: And I said, yep, you're right. You take it, and

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Speaker 1: so from that point on.

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Speaker 2: We divide and conquer a lot of things.

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Speaker 4: Are you able to turn off this sort of psychologist's

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Speaker 4: mind when you meet people or have dinner with friends,

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Speaker 4: or is your minds always kind of analyzing, you know,

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Speaker 4: the relationship because you're sitting there.

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Speaker 5: It's hard. It's hard to switch off.

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Speaker 3: Lucky you're psychoanalyzing us right now, that's off.

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Speaker 5: Now. We I have a very very strict rule that

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Speaker 5: you know, when we're driving home from the office and

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Speaker 5: we're about to yeah home, so we drive home and

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Speaker 5: car and we're allowed to speak about anything about work

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Speaker 5: and that drive home. As soon as we pull into

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Speaker 5: our eyes that's it. Stop.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 5: I like that, but it is sometimes hard.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, switch you try to keep it switched off everywhere.

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Speaker 1: But I think when you've been doing the job for

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Speaker 1: like twenty odd years. As is the case for anybody,

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Speaker 1: it's hard to sort of separate. And I think we're

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Speaker 1: so immersed in our work as well, both personally and professionally.

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Speaker 1: Like it was a big step from going just into

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Speaker 1: from being individual psychologists into being a couple, a couple

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Speaker 1: that is a couple of therapists, you know, So that

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Speaker 1: was quite a big step and for us, so I think,

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Speaker 1: you know, honesty and transparency and living truth is very important.

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Speaker 1: So we weren't going to go and become couples therapists

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Speaker 1: if we couldn't live that out ourselves. So we live

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Speaker 1: out what we teach and what we do in therapy

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Speaker 1: in our life. So it does sometimes feel like the

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Speaker 1: lines are a little bit hard to manage, but we

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Speaker 1: do really try. We have no interest in analyzing our

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Speaker 1: friends and family.

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Speaker 4: What about what about celebrities though? Do you ever kind

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Speaker 4: of read about a couple and then just look at

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Speaker 4: each other and go it?

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Speaker 2: We just don't.

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Speaker 1: We don't and we don't watch any reality TV and.

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Speaker 3: You don't even watch maths. I'm sure there would be

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Speaker 3: like a circus for you guys, wouldn't it, You be right?

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Speaker 2: Accuse me, I just look at people what's happening to

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Speaker 2: their hearts. It just it kills me.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so I actually I'm in the same place where

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Speaker 3: you are. I look at that show and just go,

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Speaker 3: oh my god, just that person's really out there looking

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Speaker 3: for love. And you've got some dude who's coming from

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Speaker 3: some other country and he's just ready a role, you know,

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Speaker 3: and move on, get a little famous or something. And

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Speaker 3: at the same time.

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Speaker 5: When you when you're when you consider the pain and

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Speaker 5: suffering people have gone through in the in their childhoods

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Speaker 5: and maybe even traumas and everything like that, you sort

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Speaker 5: of understand why they are the way they are, and

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Speaker 5: the vulnerabil has come out relationships and they you know,

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Speaker 5: if you if you're already vulnerable inside, you can become hurt.

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Speaker 5: You can get hurt. So you just trying to protect yourself,

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Speaker 5: and you know, you can you can see that being

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Speaker 5: played out in relationships and even on TV and reality

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Speaker 5: to TV and you know, and everything like that. You

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Speaker 5: can see it and it is painful to see that

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Speaker 5: and that people are suffering. But so that's why we

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Speaker 5: try to try not to do that.

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Speaker 3: Is that usually the case that people where that today's

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Speaker 3: problems come from it is usually from a childhood wound.

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Speaker 1: It's really interesting, Like I think it's definitely the word

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Speaker 1: attachment now this their big buzzword on social media, and

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Speaker 1: it's really exciting that people are starting to learn about

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Speaker 1: attachment theory. But attachment theory underpins most of what we

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Speaker 1: do in psychology, and in a nutshell, it is about

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Speaker 1: how when we come into the world do we attach

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Speaker 1: to our primary care gives, so mum and dad, and

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Speaker 1: how are not only our physical needs met but also

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Speaker 1: our emotional needs to connection and understanding and support and

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Speaker 1: compassion and love and safety. And so the research really

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Speaker 1: tells us that what happens to us in early childhood,

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Speaker 1: particularly the first three years of our life, which most

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Speaker 1: of us don't remember, will begin to replicate itself in

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Speaker 1: our adult romantic relationships. So if we have unfortunately an

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Speaker 1: insecure attachment with our primary caregivers for one reason or another,

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Speaker 1: through neglect, abuse, or various other things, then we're likely

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Speaker 1: to then develop an insecure attachment style in our adult

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Speaker 1: relationships and even parenting our own children.

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Speaker 2: And so I think as psychologists we.

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Speaker 1: Just understand that the childhood stuff just underpins a hell

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Speaker 1: of a lot of what we go through as adults,

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Speaker 1: and in turn, in response to your question, Cam, it

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Speaker 1: would definitely be affecting the way that we have relationships,

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Speaker 1: the marital relationships.

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Speaker 4: Now, what do you find in your practice is the

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Speaker 4: biggest relationship Not so much red flag, but what tares

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Speaker 4: couples apart the most.

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Speaker 5: If you boil it all down, it's emotional disconnection.

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Speaker 4: Right.

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Speaker 5: If you even say, for example, you know there's been

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Speaker 5: distrust or a breach of confidence, affairs, whatever it is,

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Speaker 5: and if you track it back often most often it's

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Speaker 5: about the couple is emotionally disconnected somewhere down the track.

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Speaker 5: And then there's what John Gotman says. I know, you

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Speaker 5: guys sort of follow John Gotmin. It's like starts a

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Speaker 5: cascade towards separation, breakdown, divorce, et cetera, et cetera. So

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Speaker 5: in a nutshell, it's emotional.

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Speaker 1: Disconnection, really yeah, And I think it probably sort of

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Speaker 1: extending on that. It looks like something else. So it

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Speaker 1: looks like we're fighting about in waws, it looks like

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Speaker 1: we're fighting about sex, it looks like we're fighting about money.

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Speaker 1: But in actual fact, what we're fighting about a lot

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Speaker 1: of the time is we've lost our way with each other.

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Speaker 1: So we just don't know how to connect. We don't

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Speaker 1: know how to have like vulnerable conversations. And I think

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Speaker 1: you know, as you go through marriage, the challenge is

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Speaker 1: how do you stay connected by continually getting to know

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Speaker 1: who your partner is as they continue to grow, change

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Speaker 1: and evolve. But I think that's what we forget sometimes

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Speaker 1: when we get married. We think, oh, I like this

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Speaker 1: person right here, right now, and I like who they

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Speaker 1: are and the way they look and the way they think.

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Speaker 2: But we're forgetting they're.

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Speaker 1: Actually marrying person who is in a constant state of evolution,

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Speaker 1: change and growth. And so if we don't continue, as

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Speaker 1: doctor Godman says, to date one another and get to

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Speaker 1: know one another, we're actually just.

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Speaker 2: Going to lose our way.

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Speaker 1: And it's not at all uncommon when we see people

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Speaker 1: coming into couples therapy that they just they don't know

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Speaker 1: who their partner is. They talk about men like chips

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Speaker 1: in the night, We don't know each other. Send them

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Speaker 1: out on a date night, they look at you and like,

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Speaker 1: what are we going to talk about? Because they've got

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Speaker 1: nothing to talk about, you know. So, yeah, it looks

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Speaker 1: like a lot of other things.

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Speaker 5: But underneath it.

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Speaker 1: I'd say the primary is should I agree with you

403
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Speaker 1: as emotional disconnection and distance.

404
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Speaker 3: It's full on, isn't it. And I mean, Alie and

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Speaker 3: I have been married for thirty one years now and

406
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Speaker 3: we I feel like we've been through a lot of

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Speaker 3: variations of what you're talking about. And I know that

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Speaker 3: as you're talking about that, my my belly just flips,

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Speaker 3: you know, because we are dynamic and we do change

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Speaker 3: and and and and it flips because of the fear

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Speaker 3: of like that. It comes back to fear, I think,

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Speaker 3: fear of I don't know, I'm not quite sure yet,

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Speaker 3: but but that stays with me and I and for

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Speaker 3: me and hearing things like emotional detachment or you know,

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Speaker 3: a lot of a lot of sort of therapized labels.

416
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Speaker 3: They can, they can they throw me off, And I've

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Speaker 3: used them, you know, guilty, but I've always used them,

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Speaker 3: maybe to keep distance with something or try and understand

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Speaker 3: something better. But actually the hard part for me is

420
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Speaker 3: always getting back to what's the what's the actual the

421
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Speaker 3: truth of it without putting a flashy label on it,

422
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Speaker 3: but to get that to the real heart of the feeling,

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Speaker 3: and to me, it often comes back down to fear

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Speaker 3: of not being seen or just feeling alone.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, alone, absolutely, Jamie. What you're talking about there is

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Speaker 5: what we call attachment fears. Attachment fears one hundred percent

427
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Speaker 5: agree with that. It is about fear. It's about fear

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Speaker 5: of not belonging. It's not the feel about not feeling

429
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Speaker 5: approved of or accepted by one another. Right, and when

430
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Speaker 5: we don't feel that we are accepted and we fear

431
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Speaker 5: that stuff happening, then we go into our you know,

432
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Speaker 5: that sort of very primal self protective mode that we

433
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Speaker 5: taught ourselves when we were you know, as a child.

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Speaker 5: We taught ourselves how to survive right in through the

435
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Speaker 5: so called traumas of childhood. And we just go back

436
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Speaker 5: to that. And when that happens and we don't effectively

437
00:22:46,080 --> 00:22:49,119
Speaker 5: work through those things, such as those attachment fears, that

438
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Speaker 5: it can tear the relationship apart. And there's a really

439
00:22:53,440 --> 00:22:55,720
Speaker 5: good sort of model of therapy that I'm not sure

440
00:22:55,960 --> 00:22:57,760
Speaker 5: if you guys have heard it, called e f T

441
00:22:57,960 --> 00:23:02,320
Speaker 5: or emotionally focused therapy by Foodson. She's another clinical psychologist.

442
00:23:02,640 --> 00:23:10,040
Speaker 5: Moment the station, I think, and basically the premise of

443
00:23:10,080 --> 00:23:15,119
Speaker 5: that is is helping couples or individuals to actually identify

444
00:23:15,320 --> 00:23:19,240
Speaker 5: what their fears are from childhood, because that is actually

445
00:23:19,240 --> 00:23:21,919
Speaker 5: what gets triggered off when we have dysfunctional conflict in

446
00:23:21,960 --> 00:23:25,440
Speaker 5: our relationships. We just or we all go back, we

447
00:23:25,480 --> 00:23:28,760
Speaker 5: revert back to our childhood state where we felt safest

448
00:23:28,760 --> 00:23:31,920
Speaker 5: and how we protected ourselves as children. And that's yeah,

449
00:23:31,960 --> 00:23:34,080
Speaker 5: that's right. So I totally agree about that fire.

450
00:23:34,400 --> 00:23:38,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, So how can we be better at noticing when

451
00:23:39,560 --> 00:23:41,879
Speaker 3: Because it's, like I said, it's a dynamic thing, and

452
00:23:41,920 --> 00:23:44,080
Speaker 3: you've noticed we're always changing and moving. How do you

453
00:23:44,080 --> 00:23:48,520
Speaker 3: get better at noticing when things are sliding not in

454
00:23:48,560 --> 00:23:48,920
Speaker 3: the grass?

455
00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:53,320
Speaker 1: Think, I think the thing that's most important to understand

456
00:23:53,480 --> 00:23:55,280
Speaker 1: is that and it's very hard to do in the

457
00:23:55,320 --> 00:23:59,520
Speaker 1: modern days that relationships take time, Like we don't actually

458
00:23:59,560 --> 00:24:02,560
Speaker 1: afford enough time to just sit and get to know

459
00:24:02,680 --> 00:24:05,200
Speaker 1: one another and talk to one another, whether.

460
00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:08,000
Speaker 2: It's as couples or even with our own children.

461
00:24:07,600 --> 00:24:12,040
Speaker 1: You know. And so to give people, I suppose, something

462
00:24:12,080 --> 00:24:14,960
Speaker 1: to strive for, Like the Gotman Institute talks about there's

463
00:24:14,960 --> 00:24:18,600
Speaker 1: a difference between happy couples and unhappy couples of about

464
00:24:18,640 --> 00:24:20,960
Speaker 1: six hours a week, which is less than an hour

465
00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:23,800
Speaker 1: a day. And if you check your social media usage.

466
00:24:23,840 --> 00:24:26,359
Speaker 1: I reckon you can find the time, but it's time

467
00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:29,840
Speaker 1: that you actually have to dedicate to your relationships. So

468
00:24:29,920 --> 00:24:33,320
Speaker 1: that means like chatting with each other each day about

469
00:24:33,320 --> 00:24:36,080
Speaker 1: like how's your day been going? Like what have you

470
00:24:36,119 --> 00:24:39,120
Speaker 1: been stressed about? How can I support you? How can

471
00:24:39,160 --> 00:24:42,600
Speaker 1: I comfort you in the day to day stresses, making

472
00:24:42,640 --> 00:24:46,080
Speaker 1: sure we share like fondness and admiration and affection with

473
00:24:46,160 --> 00:24:49,560
Speaker 1: one another every day, but most importantly late, let's sit

474
00:24:49,640 --> 00:24:52,200
Speaker 1: down once a week. The Gotman Institute talks about having

475
00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:55,120
Speaker 1: a state of the Union conversation, which is like having

476
00:24:55,119 --> 00:24:57,600
Speaker 1: a meeting about your relationship, like what have we done

477
00:24:57,680 --> 00:24:58,600
Speaker 1: well this week?

478
00:24:59,440 --> 00:25:03,919
Speaker 2: How have we managed you know, challenging things this week?

479
00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:07,399
Speaker 1: And then it also provides a really safe space for

480
00:25:07,520 --> 00:25:10,200
Speaker 1: us to say and this is what hasn't been working

481
00:25:10,240 --> 00:25:12,480
Speaker 1: for me or this is my complaint for the week,

482
00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:15,639
Speaker 1: and then gives each other the opportunity to say, like

483
00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:17,440
Speaker 1: what what can I do to make you feel loved

484
00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:21,200
Speaker 1: and supported this week? So like, beautiful conversations like that

485
00:25:21,800 --> 00:25:24,600
Speaker 1: really prevent the slide that you were talking about.

486
00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:24,840
Speaker 3: Cam.

487
00:25:25,280 --> 00:25:28,560
Speaker 1: If you just are very intentional about, you know, making

488
00:25:28,560 --> 00:25:32,399
Speaker 1: sure you connect regularly, that can prevent the slide I

489
00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:33,320
Speaker 1: think from occurring.

490
00:25:34,720 --> 00:25:38,040
Speaker 4: That's great, and it's it's simple like that. That's what

491
00:25:38,119 --> 00:25:40,320
Speaker 4: I love. Okay, could you just you know, I know

492
00:25:40,359 --> 00:25:42,040
Speaker 4: it's hard to sort of put it in a nutshell,

493
00:25:42,119 --> 00:25:45,040
Speaker 4: but could you just explain to the listeners what the

494
00:25:45,040 --> 00:25:48,360
Speaker 4: Gotman Institute is. I know both of you are trained.

495
00:25:49,320 --> 00:25:54,240
Speaker 4: What would you say, Gotman Institute, got therapist, there you go.

496
00:25:54,560 --> 00:25:56,840
Speaker 4: So if you could explain a little bit more about

497
00:25:56,920 --> 00:25:58,359
Speaker 4: what that actually means.

498
00:25:58,760 --> 00:26:02,520
Speaker 1: So the Gotman Institution has been operating for over four

499
00:26:02,560 --> 00:26:05,199
Speaker 1: decades now. Prior to their work and the work of

500
00:26:05,240 --> 00:26:10,440
Speaker 1: doctor su Johnson we reference before. In the study of relationships,

501
00:26:10,800 --> 00:26:13,560
Speaker 1: what we found was that couples, no matter where they

502
00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:16,840
Speaker 1: went to go and get help, their relationships would get worse,

503
00:26:16,920 --> 00:26:19,200
Speaker 1: not better. So even if they went to a therapist

504
00:26:20,040 --> 00:26:23,919
Speaker 1: or their family, their relationships wouldn't get any better. The

505
00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:28,520
Speaker 1: Gotman Institute is fantastic insofar as it's the first bunch

506
00:26:28,520 --> 00:26:31,080
Speaker 1: of people that have actually stopped and paused and looked

507
00:26:31,119 --> 00:26:34,440
Speaker 1: at what it takes to make a relationship work. So

508
00:26:34,560 --> 00:26:37,720
Speaker 1: they've been instrumental in studying couples and doing what we

509
00:26:37,800 --> 00:26:41,320
Speaker 1: call longitudinal research following them up for decades after their

510
00:26:41,359 --> 00:26:46,320
Speaker 1: initial study, and they've looked at couples in their environments.

511
00:26:46,320 --> 00:26:49,280
Speaker 1: So they've actually looked at what it is that they

512
00:26:49,440 --> 00:26:52,640
Speaker 1: do that makes their relationship work. And this has been

513
00:26:52,720 --> 00:26:56,520
Speaker 1: described in their work the seven Principles that make Marriage Work.

514
00:26:56,840 --> 00:26:59,800
Speaker 1: So what we do as Gotman therapists using the Gotman

515
00:26:59,840 --> 00:27:04,800
Speaker 1: Men method is we're teaching couples or unhappy couples, what

516
00:27:04,920 --> 00:27:08,000
Speaker 1: happy couples naturally do. Because we know that there are

517
00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:10,680
Speaker 1: couples that are unhappy. We're staring down the barrel of

518
00:27:10,720 --> 00:27:13,560
Speaker 1: around about a fifty percent of all straight but all

519
00:27:13,640 --> 00:27:15,800
Speaker 1: those ones that are unhappy, there's also a bunch of

520
00:27:15,840 --> 00:27:18,640
Speaker 1: people not quite another fifty percent. I don't think there's

521
00:27:18,640 --> 00:27:21,000
Speaker 1: a whole bunch of people that just innately know how

522
00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:24,440
Speaker 1: to make relationships work. And you would know those people

523
00:27:24,480 --> 00:27:26,760
Speaker 1: when you come across them. They're just those couples that

524
00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:30,720
Speaker 1: everybody actually wants to be. They still hold hands when

525
00:27:30,760 --> 00:27:33,280
Speaker 1: they're like eighty and still look into each other's eyes.

526
00:27:33,560 --> 00:27:36,960
Speaker 1: And so the Gotmin Institute, their method of therapy is

527
00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:42,200
Speaker 1: all about teaching couples what happy couples are doing day

528
00:27:42,240 --> 00:27:44,919
Speaker 1: in day out that make their relationship go.

529
00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:45,560
Speaker 5: The distance.

530
00:27:46,040 --> 00:27:48,160
Speaker 2: Probably not the neatest nutshell, but.

531
00:27:48,200 --> 00:27:51,280
Speaker 4: No, that was great. And can you, Adrian, tell us,

532
00:27:51,280 --> 00:27:53,679
Speaker 4: what are some of the things that a happy couple

533
00:27:53,760 --> 00:27:54,760
Speaker 4: does every day?

534
00:27:55,680 --> 00:27:59,280
Speaker 5: Yeah, so this is what godin calls the masters of

535
00:27:59,359 --> 00:28:03,960
Speaker 5: relationship versus the unfortunate name of the disasters says, masters

536
00:28:04,040 --> 00:28:06,080
Speaker 5: versus disasters relationships.

537
00:28:06,119 --> 00:28:09,879
Speaker 3: You falls that line, right, that's right.

538
00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:16,439
Speaker 5: But they so masters. They first of all, they do

539
00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:19,159
Speaker 5: a lot of what what Gotman calls small things often.

540
00:28:20,040 --> 00:28:22,879
Speaker 5: So it's it's not it's not good enough to go

541
00:28:22,920 --> 00:28:25,840
Speaker 5: through life together not connecting on a daily basis, and

542
00:28:25,880 --> 00:28:28,679
Speaker 5: then having those one or two really big gestures, you know,

543
00:28:28,760 --> 00:28:30,840
Speaker 5: once or twice a year, because they mean nothing if

544
00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:35,359
Speaker 5: you're not connecting constantly. So what Gotman suggests is small

545
00:28:35,600 --> 00:28:38,840
Speaker 5: things often, and these are very very simple things that

546
00:28:38,880 --> 00:28:41,480
Speaker 5: anyone can do in your listeners could start doing the

547
00:28:41,600 --> 00:28:45,200
Speaker 5: right away. One of them is what he calls the

548
00:28:45,240 --> 00:28:48,960
Speaker 5: sixth second kiss. And so that meaning that when you

549
00:28:49,160 --> 00:28:52,719
Speaker 5: are greeting each other, you know, when when you finished

550
00:28:52,760 --> 00:28:55,520
Speaker 5: work or you're saying goodbye in the morning, that you

551
00:28:55,600 --> 00:29:00,200
Speaker 5: actually make physical contact. You kiss bought six seconds. If

552
00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:02,760
Speaker 5: you've ever timed out six second, that's quite a longside

553
00:29:02,760 --> 00:29:04,800
Speaker 5: of that, it's a kiss for But anyway, that's what

554
00:29:04,840 --> 00:29:08,720
Speaker 5: they've sort of found and that creates again an emotional connection.

555
00:29:09,680 --> 00:29:13,040
Speaker 5: Kerry mentioned the state of the Union conversation, So that's

556
00:29:13,440 --> 00:29:17,200
Speaker 5: weakly having this conversation about how our relationship is going,

557
00:29:17,920 --> 00:29:20,760
Speaker 5: what are the pitfalls, what's going well, etc. What are

558
00:29:20,800 --> 00:29:23,600
Speaker 5: your needs and are they being mets and everything like that.

559
00:29:24,040 --> 00:29:28,000
Speaker 5: It's also having and I think this is probably really

560
00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:30,800
Speaker 5: important for it for all of us, is having extremely

561
00:29:30,880 --> 00:29:37,000
Speaker 5: functional conflicts because in relationships, obviously we're not going to

562
00:29:37,040 --> 00:29:40,640
Speaker 5: agree on everything with different people, and in couples therapy

563
00:29:40,760 --> 00:29:43,280
Speaker 5: we don't say you have to agree with each other

564
00:29:43,320 --> 00:29:48,600
Speaker 5: on everything. It's still individuals. But so if conflict is inevitable,

565
00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:52,480
Speaker 5: we need to be able to have conflict that is functional. Right,

566
00:29:52,520 --> 00:29:55,280
Speaker 5: So this is what the masters do, and just in

567
00:29:55,280 --> 00:29:57,240
Speaker 5: a Nutch of how they do it, they when they're

568
00:29:57,240 --> 00:29:59,680
Speaker 5: having conflict, they take care of each other. It's not

569
00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:03,560
Speaker 5: me against you, it's us against the issue. Right. We

570
00:30:03,600 --> 00:30:06,120
Speaker 5: are gentle with each other and soft with each other

571
00:30:06,160 --> 00:30:10,000
Speaker 5: when we're working through the problem. I don't shut you down.

572
00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:13,240
Speaker 5: I listen when you're talking. If you're in pain. Gotlin,

573
00:30:13,320 --> 00:30:15,400
Speaker 5: one of Gotlin sayings is when you're in pain, my

574
00:30:15,480 --> 00:30:17,800
Speaker 5: whole world stops and you're the only one in it.

575
00:30:17,880 --> 00:30:23,000
Speaker 5: Type of thing I seek to understand you. I demonstrate compassion, empathy,

576
00:30:23,040 --> 00:30:25,880
Speaker 5: and validation even if I disagree with you. You know,

577
00:30:25,920 --> 00:30:28,720
Speaker 5: these are the things that anyone can do. Yeah, to

578
00:30:28,880 --> 00:30:31,320
Speaker 5: be difficult, difficult in the heat at the moment, but

579
00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:33,480
Speaker 5: these are some of the things that the Masters are

580
00:30:33,480 --> 00:30:34,640
Speaker 5: doing naturally.

581
00:30:34,600 --> 00:30:37,600
Speaker 4: I remember from reading some of their work, and I've

582
00:30:37,640 --> 00:30:40,720
Speaker 4: mentioned this before on the podcast, but it really hit me.

583
00:30:41,120 --> 00:30:43,520
Speaker 4: Is one of the things I loved them talking about

584
00:30:43,720 --> 00:30:46,920
Speaker 4: is look for the signs of when someone's making a

585
00:30:46,960 --> 00:30:51,080
Speaker 4: bid for connection. And it might not look like, as

586
00:30:51,080 --> 00:30:53,520
Speaker 4: you say, the big grand gestures, but it might just

587
00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:56,960
Speaker 4: be are you hungry? Yeah, do you want a cup

588
00:30:56,960 --> 00:30:59,720
Speaker 4: of tea? You know, it's those little gestures that say

589
00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:02,840
Speaker 4: also saying I love you mean something to me. And

590
00:31:02,920 --> 00:31:05,840
Speaker 4: I just I loved that because it just brings me

591
00:31:06,120 --> 00:31:09,840
Speaker 4: an awareness of of how many times you know you're

592
00:31:09,880 --> 00:31:11,719
Speaker 4: thinking of me, you know, when you give me a

593
00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:13,600
Speaker 4: call or a text or do you know what I mean,

594
00:31:13,640 --> 00:31:16,200
Speaker 4: And it's just like an emoji or an emoji.

595
00:31:17,120 --> 00:31:18,960
Speaker 3: I got mad at her once because she didn't wasn't

596
00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:22,320
Speaker 3: she wasn't re emojiing me when I was like, and

597
00:31:22,360 --> 00:31:26,120
Speaker 3: I'm like, I'm sending you, Yeah, I'm sending all these

598
00:31:26,160 --> 00:31:30,360
Speaker 3: emojis of love, arts and kisses and stuff, and she's

599
00:31:30,440 --> 00:31:33,160
Speaker 3: just sending me these straight words and I'm just going

600
00:31:33,680 --> 00:31:37,920
Speaker 3: what Finally, I said, you got it reaching out by

601
00:31:37,960 --> 00:31:41,320
Speaker 3: a text, you know what, I'm emojis.

602
00:31:41,760 --> 00:31:44,280
Speaker 4: But then what happened was is that I went back

603
00:31:44,320 --> 00:31:46,920
Speaker 4: through all the text messages and lo and behold there

604
00:31:46,920 --> 00:31:51,240
Speaker 4: were emojis. And I was like, a mate, I'm like, well.

605
00:31:51,080 --> 00:31:51,640
Speaker 2: What's this?

606
00:31:51,640 --> 00:31:51,960
Speaker 3: This?

607
00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:55,680
Speaker 4: This, this this and this and this is this. It

608
00:31:55,760 --> 00:31:58,200
Speaker 4: was like we were ships in the night on the emoji.

609
00:31:57,800 --> 00:32:06,640
Speaker 5: Train talking about there. Ali is turning towards bids connect.

610
00:32:07,640 --> 00:32:12,400
Speaker 5: So that whole turning towards is that's essential. The other

611
00:32:12,440 --> 00:32:16,360
Speaker 5: ways you can and they're not preferable. Of course, they're

612
00:32:16,360 --> 00:32:19,600
Speaker 5: turning it away or turning against. So turning away is

613
00:32:19,760 --> 00:32:22,840
Speaker 5: just ignoring the bid. Turning against is actually turning against

614
00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:25,920
Speaker 5: your partner, braiding them or whatnot for making that bid.

615
00:32:26,160 --> 00:32:28,840
Speaker 5: But we want to be turning towards and the masters,

616
00:32:28,840 --> 00:32:31,200
Speaker 5: I think the statistic is the masters turn towards each

617
00:32:31,240 --> 00:32:33,560
Speaker 5: other eighty six percent of the time. That's pretty high,

618
00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:37,000
Speaker 5: pretty high. But the disasters are only turning towards each

619
00:32:37,040 --> 00:32:39,080
Speaker 5: other thirty three percent of the time, So it's a

620
00:32:39,120 --> 00:32:44,160
Speaker 5: big difference. But that's actually what shows that your partner you,

621
00:32:44,840 --> 00:32:47,640
Speaker 5: I'm aware of you on my world and I'm constantly

622
00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:50,440
Speaker 5: seeking you out, and whenever you're making a bid, I'm

623
00:32:50,440 --> 00:32:53,840
Speaker 5: looking to meet that emotionally. And so yeah, so the

624
00:32:53,920 --> 00:32:56,240
Speaker 5: turning towards bids is extremely important.

625
00:32:57,800 --> 00:33:00,280
Speaker 1: It is challenging to do there, and I think again

626
00:33:00,320 --> 00:33:03,320
Speaker 1: that can come back to early life experiences. So what

627
00:33:03,400 --> 00:33:08,040
Speaker 1: we have experienced growing up as bids for connection in

628
00:33:08,080 --> 00:33:12,360
Speaker 1: our own family of origin can result in us sometimes

629
00:33:12,400 --> 00:33:15,720
Speaker 1: missing completely that our partner is actually making a bid

630
00:33:15,760 --> 00:33:16,400
Speaker 1: for connection.

631
00:33:17,280 --> 00:33:19,080
Speaker 2: Perfect example is somebody.

632
00:33:18,880 --> 00:33:21,280
Speaker 1: Might have grown up in an environment where the way

633
00:33:21,280 --> 00:33:24,560
Speaker 1: they connected was by being quite playful and joking all

634
00:33:24,600 --> 00:33:26,320
Speaker 1: of the time, and they might not have been great

635
00:33:26,360 --> 00:33:30,880
Speaker 1: at sitting down and having deep emotional conversations, but that playful,

636
00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:33,520
Speaker 1: joking sort of approach was how they tried to connect

637
00:33:33,560 --> 00:33:37,120
Speaker 1: with family, and so you can then miss that bid

638
00:33:37,160 --> 00:33:39,760
Speaker 1: for connection and just feel irritated with your partners joking

639
00:33:39,800 --> 00:33:42,560
Speaker 1: around but not realize that they're actually attempting to connect

640
00:33:42,560 --> 00:33:42,960
Speaker 1: with you.

641
00:33:43,840 --> 00:33:45,880
Speaker 2: So yeah, it's hard, and I think what you were saying,

642
00:33:45,920 --> 00:33:46,480
Speaker 2: Ali was good.

643
00:33:46,520 --> 00:33:48,200
Speaker 1: You need to sort of like look out for the

644
00:33:48,200 --> 00:33:51,600
Speaker 1: bids for connection and in return and respond to them

645
00:33:51,640 --> 00:33:52,520
Speaker 1: turn towards them.

646
00:33:52,880 --> 00:33:56,160
Speaker 3: So I guess that would be alleviated or brought to

647
00:33:56,240 --> 00:33:59,520
Speaker 3: light through one of these States of the Union checks

648
00:33:59,520 --> 00:34:03,000
Speaker 3: that you have. And you're going, you know, you don't

649
00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:05,120
Speaker 3: give me what I'm needing or whatever, and then you go, yeah,

650
00:34:05,160 --> 00:34:12,759
Speaker 3: but this is the way I do it. Question for you,

651
00:34:12,840 --> 00:34:16,120
Speaker 3: Al did you get because Ali brought in the State

652
00:34:16,120 --> 00:34:18,000
Speaker 3: of the Union thing to us, But I'm not sure

653
00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:20,000
Speaker 3: if you've actually pitched it like that. You just said

654
00:34:20,040 --> 00:34:23,480
Speaker 3: we should we should actually sit down at a certain time,

655
00:34:24,200 --> 00:34:26,839
Speaker 3: you know, so it was a weekend thing and we'll

656
00:34:26,960 --> 00:34:30,360
Speaker 3: chat about where we're at. Was that from the Gotman Institute?

657
00:34:30,440 --> 00:34:32,600
Speaker 4: Yea, yeah, I didn't know. I actually didn't know it

658
00:34:32,600 --> 00:34:34,480
Speaker 4: was called the State of the Union. I didn't Actually

659
00:34:34,960 --> 00:34:39,239
Speaker 4: it's a very American thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think

660
00:34:39,239 --> 00:34:41,440
Speaker 4: it was weird because we just kept it to three questions.

661
00:34:41,480 --> 00:34:44,200
Speaker 4: It's like, what went really well this week with you

662
00:34:44,280 --> 00:34:47,880
Speaker 4: and I? What do we what? What do you? And

663
00:34:47,920 --> 00:34:49,839
Speaker 4: it was just the way it was phrase. It wasn't like,

664
00:34:49,960 --> 00:34:52,560
Speaker 4: you know, it wasn't like when were you a dickhead?

665
00:34:52,560 --> 00:35:01,520
Speaker 4: This week we changed it to that, we change it

666
00:35:01,760 --> 00:35:06,440
Speaker 4: it was yeah, it was yeah, what what didn't what

667
00:35:06,600 --> 00:35:08,880
Speaker 4: wasn't working? And what do you And then we finished

668
00:35:08,920 --> 00:35:12,920
Speaker 4: with what do you want more of? What more do

669
00:35:12,960 --> 00:35:13,359
Speaker 4: you want?

670
00:35:13,440 --> 00:35:13,600
Speaker 1: So?

671
00:35:13,960 --> 00:35:17,440
Speaker 4: And I really liked that finishing with that because then

672
00:35:17,480 --> 00:35:21,959
Speaker 4: it's still finished on a still finished on a positive yeah.

673
00:35:22,040 --> 00:35:23,320
Speaker 4: So yeah.

674
00:35:23,360 --> 00:35:25,839
Speaker 1: And then the other thing that is added in the

675
00:35:25,880 --> 00:35:30,480
Speaker 1: State of the Union that's really important and grossly underestimated

676
00:35:30,520 --> 00:35:34,840
Speaker 1: how important this is is sharing fondness and admiration and appreciations.

677
00:35:35,680 --> 00:35:38,200
Speaker 1: Like actually, and this is one of the big things

678
00:35:38,239 --> 00:35:40,400
Speaker 1: that we have to teach people is it's not enough

679
00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:44,879
Speaker 1: to think nice thoughts about your partner, Like as we

680
00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:48,440
Speaker 1: are all inherently actually quite insecure. So if I'm not

681
00:35:48,600 --> 00:35:51,239
Speaker 1: hearing from you that you approve of me, that you

682
00:35:51,400 --> 00:35:54,120
Speaker 1: like me, that you appreciate me, that you value me,

683
00:35:54,280 --> 00:35:57,400
Speaker 1: I start to doubt whether or not those things are true.

684
00:35:57,880 --> 00:36:00,440
Speaker 1: And so that's something we do a lot of when

685
00:36:00,440 --> 00:36:02,480
Speaker 1: we're dating. We tell each other what we like about

686
00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:04,640
Speaker 1: each other a lot. But that's one of the things

687
00:36:04,640 --> 00:36:06,680
Speaker 1: that masters do when we encourage that. In the State

688
00:36:06,719 --> 00:36:09,400
Speaker 1: of the Union as well, Like started off with not

689
00:36:09,440 --> 00:36:11,600
Speaker 1: only what did we do well as a couple, but hey,

690
00:36:11,719 --> 00:36:14,480
Speaker 1: I've been looking at you and here's a situation. I

691
00:36:14,520 --> 00:36:16,520
Speaker 1: saw you get down and play with our little daughter

692
00:36:16,560 --> 00:36:18,759
Speaker 1: when she fell over and hurt her knee, and I

693
00:36:18,880 --> 00:36:21,480
Speaker 1: just looked at how comforted she was by your beautiful

694
00:36:21,560 --> 00:36:23,920
Speaker 1: hug and I'm so glad that you're her dad. Like,

695
00:36:23,960 --> 00:36:26,239
Speaker 1: it's those sorts of things that you actually have to

696
00:36:26,280 --> 00:36:30,000
Speaker 1: say out loud to people because that really really strengthens

697
00:36:30,040 --> 00:36:30,839
Speaker 1: the relationship.

698
00:36:31,280 --> 00:36:35,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, what do you say to cynics? You must come

699
00:36:35,120 --> 00:36:39,080
Speaker 3: up against people in therapy who come in like the

700
00:36:39,160 --> 00:36:42,640
Speaker 3: husband or the partner's been dragged in by the other person,

701
00:36:43,200 --> 00:36:46,000
Speaker 3: and they just going, I just don't that's not necessary.

702
00:36:46,400 --> 00:36:48,840
Speaker 3: What do I have to say that? What you know?

703
00:36:49,400 --> 00:36:51,920
Speaker 3: And are they like the hard the hard edge, the

704
00:36:52,000 --> 00:36:55,239
Speaker 3: hard shell people? And then you bust through them and

705
00:36:55,280 --> 00:36:59,960
Speaker 3: then they yeah, minutes they're crumbled. But how do you

706
00:37:00,120 --> 00:37:02,480
Speaker 3: deal with those with those cynics? What what do you do?

707
00:37:02,520 --> 00:37:06,920
Speaker 3: Because I sometimes feel that myself. In fact, as we're talking,

708
00:37:07,000 --> 00:37:08,640
Speaker 3: I'm going, I don't want to have a state of

709
00:37:08,680 --> 00:37:09,319
Speaker 3: the union thing.

710
00:37:09,360 --> 00:37:10,000
Speaker 5: I don't want to have to.

711
00:37:10,600 --> 00:37:12,400
Speaker 3: I can think of a half my golf buddies up

712
00:37:12,400 --> 00:37:15,760
Speaker 3: there on the hill would just be like, just relax,

713
00:37:16,080 --> 00:37:18,960
Speaker 3: have a beer, you know, so what do you? What

714
00:37:18,960 --> 00:37:20,279
Speaker 3: do you? How do you crack that egg?

715
00:37:21,520 --> 00:37:24,640
Speaker 5: Really good question, and then we do come up against that.

716
00:37:24,719 --> 00:37:29,520
Speaker 5: It's not just males, right, it's but it comes look,

717
00:37:29,520 --> 00:37:32,040
Speaker 5: I think I think it comes down to the concept

718
00:37:32,040 --> 00:37:35,200
Speaker 5: of what we call meta emotions meta emotions, and really

719
00:37:35,200 --> 00:37:38,919
Speaker 5: it just means that how well or it does does

720
00:37:39,200 --> 00:37:42,160
Speaker 5: how is the person of the individual and the relationship,

721
00:37:42,520 --> 00:37:45,319
Speaker 5: how much does it place on talking about how we

722
00:37:45,360 --> 00:37:47,560
Speaker 5: feel to each other. It's the importance that we place

723
00:37:47,960 --> 00:37:50,640
Speaker 5: on how much or how we we're talking about how

724
00:37:50,640 --> 00:37:54,160
Speaker 5: we feel about each other talking about how we feel

725
00:37:54,200 --> 00:37:58,520
Speaker 5: to each other. Uh. And a lot of us have

726
00:37:58,840 --> 00:38:02,800
Speaker 5: what we call low metal, meaning that we don't place

727
00:38:02,840 --> 00:38:06,600
Speaker 5: importance on talking about how we feel because of the

728
00:38:06,600 --> 00:38:09,359
Speaker 5: way we're going back to what we talked about, our

729
00:38:09,360 --> 00:38:12,520
Speaker 5: attachment styles, about the way we were taught about or

730
00:38:12,600 --> 00:38:14,879
Speaker 5: not taught about our emotions. So some of us are,

731
00:38:15,200 --> 00:38:17,200
Speaker 5: and your lisses might a lot of your listens will

732
00:38:17,200 --> 00:38:22,239
Speaker 5: probably relate to this that we weren't raised to acknowledge

733
00:38:22,239 --> 00:38:26,200
Speaker 5: that emotions are important. We weren't nurtured in our emotions.

734
00:38:26,239 --> 00:38:28,800
Speaker 5: We were some of us might have even been told

735
00:38:28,800 --> 00:38:31,960
Speaker 5: that our emotions, our emotions are wrong, we shouldn't have them,

736
00:38:31,960 --> 00:38:34,480
Speaker 5: and what we shouldn't feel, that we should feel something else,

737
00:38:35,080 --> 00:38:38,480
Speaker 5: or no, that's not okay, you're a big boy or girl,

738
00:38:38,480 --> 00:38:40,719
Speaker 5: you shouldn't cry, all that sort of stuff. I mean,

739
00:38:40,760 --> 00:38:45,239
Speaker 5: this is this is quite common in people, and so

740
00:38:45,560 --> 00:38:50,279
Speaker 5: when we got into adults and we have our adult relationships,

741
00:38:50,400 --> 00:38:52,919
Speaker 5: we carry that with us. And we've never been able

742
00:38:52,960 --> 00:38:55,960
Speaker 5: to understand what our emotions actually are, and so therefore

743
00:38:56,000 --> 00:39:00,839
Speaker 5: we're uncomfortable we're talking about emotions, especially our negative emotions,

744
00:39:01,560 --> 00:39:03,880
Speaker 5: so we shut them down, all right, And then we

745
00:39:04,239 --> 00:39:05,640
Speaker 5: do we sort of say, well, why do I have

746
00:39:05,680 --> 00:39:07,439
Speaker 5: to say that? Why can't we all just get along?

747
00:39:07,480 --> 00:39:10,600
Speaker 5: Why can't we just that's okay, don't worry, you're too sensitive,

748
00:39:10,600 --> 00:39:14,160
Speaker 5: It's all right, Yeah, there's no problem here. But it

749
00:39:14,200 --> 00:39:17,320
Speaker 5: comes down to how comfortable do we feel in ourselves

750
00:39:17,360 --> 00:39:21,440
Speaker 5: about talking about emotions. And if we assess an individual

751
00:39:21,560 --> 00:39:23,680
Speaker 5: or a couple that are low in matter emotions, we

752
00:39:23,719 --> 00:39:26,040
Speaker 5: do a lot of work to teach them how to

753
00:39:26,080 --> 00:39:29,320
Speaker 5: talk about emotions and teach them about importance of feelings

754
00:39:29,560 --> 00:39:32,200
Speaker 5: and when you actually are able to express your vulnerable

755
00:39:32,200 --> 00:39:35,480
Speaker 5: feelings for each other, your vulnerable emotional needs to each other,

756
00:39:35,719 --> 00:39:38,360
Speaker 5: and the other person actually hears that and validates that

757
00:39:38,400 --> 00:39:40,840
Speaker 5: and says that makes a lot of sense, and I

758
00:39:40,960 --> 00:39:44,120
Speaker 5: want that for you. Then that teaches them and reinforces

759
00:39:44,120 --> 00:39:46,920
Speaker 5: for them that's okay to have emotions. It's okay to

760
00:39:46,920 --> 00:39:48,759
Speaker 5: tell my part. It's safe to tell my part that

761
00:39:48,800 --> 00:39:52,279
Speaker 5: I feel this, even if it's a negative emotion. So yeah,

762
00:39:52,400 --> 00:39:53,520
Speaker 5: so that's quite.

763
00:39:53,320 --> 00:39:56,320
Speaker 3: An adult It's quite an adult thing, though, isn't it, Adrian,

764
00:39:56,640 --> 00:40:01,480
Speaker 3: Because I know for me in my family, we were

765
00:40:01,520 --> 00:40:04,799
Speaker 3: not brought up to be speaking emotions. And I know

766
00:40:04,840 --> 00:40:08,759
Speaker 3: my mum and dad have have railed against me in

767
00:40:08,800 --> 00:40:11,839
Speaker 3: the last twenty five thirty years, you know, God, dam

768
00:40:12,000 --> 00:40:14,640
Speaker 3: you just you talk too much, or you know, it's

769
00:40:14,719 --> 00:40:19,040
Speaker 3: you're you get too emotional or deep or just you

770
00:40:19,080 --> 00:40:21,880
Speaker 3: know that sort of stuff. So it's not really supported

771
00:40:22,520 --> 00:40:28,680
Speaker 3: yet yet it is supported when the byproduct of it

772
00:40:28,719 --> 00:40:31,520
Speaker 3: is comes out, you know, and it's been a better result.

773
00:40:33,560 --> 00:40:40,000
Speaker 3: So though I find having that's been my training, that's

774
00:40:40,000 --> 00:40:42,319
Speaker 3: almost like a default thing. So if I'm not in

775
00:40:42,440 --> 00:40:45,400
Speaker 3: the adult mind, you know, in a grown up cam

776
00:40:45,560 --> 00:40:49,359
Speaker 3: version of me, if I'm back, you know, I saw

777
00:40:49,400 --> 00:40:51,640
Speaker 3: an image of actually I said, it's someone today of

778
00:40:53,320 --> 00:40:55,560
Speaker 3: a grown man sucking on a dummy, and it's like this,

779
00:40:55,800 --> 00:40:59,840
Speaker 3: you know, this childish way of being. If I feel

780
00:40:59,880 --> 00:41:04,600
Speaker 3: like that, I can easily drift back into that attitude

781
00:41:04,760 --> 00:41:09,600
Speaker 3: of we don't need to talk, you know, I'd rather not.

782
00:41:10,040 --> 00:41:12,960
Speaker 3: So that's what I mean. It takes a conscious mind

783
00:41:13,120 --> 00:41:17,160
Speaker 3: and an adult intention to say I want to have

784
00:41:18,160 --> 00:41:19,680
Speaker 3: I know, most of the time, I want to have

785
00:41:19,680 --> 00:41:22,080
Speaker 3: a better relationship, I want to be seen, I want

786
00:41:22,080 --> 00:41:25,759
Speaker 3: to have my needs mat So there's this constant push me,

787
00:41:25,800 --> 00:41:29,400
Speaker 3: pull you. And I'm sure I'm sure there's going to

788
00:41:29,400 --> 00:41:32,399
Speaker 3: be a lot of our listeners. I would hope i'd

789
00:41:32,400 --> 00:41:34,080
Speaker 3: think I'm an island here, but I think a lot

790
00:41:34,080 --> 00:41:37,000
Speaker 3: of people would relate to that. Is that your experience too?

791
00:41:38,239 --> 00:41:42,600
Speaker 2: Absolutely? Yeah.

792
00:41:43,040 --> 00:41:47,920
Speaker 1: I think that we just really grossly underestimate how important

793
00:41:47,920 --> 00:41:51,680
Speaker 1: our emotional world. And we live in a culture I think,

794
00:41:52,640 --> 00:41:55,200
Speaker 1: you know, where it's easy to make fun of emotions,

795
00:41:55,280 --> 00:41:57,560
Speaker 1: like I think that's a huge part of it as well.

796
00:41:58,440 --> 00:42:01,560
Speaker 1: But I think that when you get people into couple's

797
00:42:01,600 --> 00:42:07,960
Speaker 1: therapy and you can actually help them very much experience

798
00:42:08,080 --> 00:42:11,719
Speaker 1: emotional connection with a therapist and then with their partner,

799
00:42:12,280 --> 00:42:16,680
Speaker 1: that is transformative. Like I call it magic. Like I'm

800
00:42:16,719 --> 00:42:19,040
Speaker 1: on a high after sessions when I have a session

801
00:42:19,080 --> 00:42:22,400
Speaker 1: of what we call an engaged emotional encounter where I

802
00:42:22,480 --> 00:42:26,120
Speaker 1: talk about two hearts meeting. And often it's not even

803
00:42:26,160 --> 00:42:28,759
Speaker 1: a lot of words that need to be said in

804
00:42:28,800 --> 00:42:32,080
Speaker 1: those moments, but it's like the look in someone's eyes

805
00:42:32,120 --> 00:42:34,640
Speaker 1: when they can look into their partner's eyes and actually

806
00:42:34,760 --> 00:42:38,879
Speaker 1: see and feel their pain. And when we receive that

807
00:42:38,920 --> 00:42:42,840
Speaker 1: sort of care, like we're seen on a very deep level,

808
00:42:42,920 --> 00:42:46,080
Speaker 1: we're known on a very deep level, and our pain

809
00:42:46,160 --> 00:42:50,640
Speaker 1: and hurt makes sense to another person. There is nothing

810
00:42:50,800 --> 00:42:54,200
Speaker 1: like that. The toughest man will crumble under that, the

811
00:42:54,280 --> 00:42:57,920
Speaker 1: hardest woman will crumble under that, and not crumble in

812
00:42:57,960 --> 00:43:00,279
Speaker 1: a bad way, but in a way of like, this

813
00:43:00,320 --> 00:43:02,880
Speaker 1: is what I'm longing for. This is what all human

814
00:43:02,920 --> 00:43:08,600
Speaker 1: beings are longing for, deep emotional connection, fully being seen,

815
00:43:08,840 --> 00:43:12,400
Speaker 1: known and cared for by another human. Yeah, and that

816
00:43:12,560 --> 00:43:13,600
Speaker 1: transforms people.

817
00:43:13,640 --> 00:43:14,560
Speaker 2: And then you see.

818
00:43:14,360 --> 00:43:16,120
Speaker 1: People going, all right, what's the name of that book?

819
00:43:16,120 --> 00:43:17,680
Speaker 1: You're telling me about how can we do this? What

820
00:43:17,800 --> 00:43:18,719
Speaker 1: courses can we come to?

821
00:43:19,080 --> 00:43:20,560
Speaker 2: And they literally.

822
00:43:20,200 --> 00:43:22,320
Speaker 1: Turn turn a corner corner.

823
00:43:22,400 --> 00:43:25,279
Speaker 2: It's just it's magic, funny.

824
00:43:25,520 --> 00:43:27,560
Speaker 4: I love it and I and I just see that

825
00:43:27,640 --> 00:43:30,279
Speaker 4: working across the board, you know, as a parent, to

826
00:43:30,360 --> 00:43:34,719
Speaker 4: the child, as your girlfriend, you know, as your sisters,

827
00:43:34,880 --> 00:43:37,959
Speaker 4: or wherever you're having relationship. As you said, everyone wants

828
00:43:38,000 --> 00:43:41,200
Speaker 4: to be seen and heard. It's particularly in their vulnerable

829
00:43:41,239 --> 00:43:46,000
Speaker 4: emotions and working with kids like I do. I've got

830
00:43:46,000 --> 00:43:48,480
Speaker 4: a there's a there's one girl in my class particularly

831
00:43:48,560 --> 00:43:51,760
Speaker 4: who I who I work with, and she's special needs.

832
00:43:52,120 --> 00:43:55,359
Speaker 4: But at the same time, she's so special because she

833
00:43:55,400 --> 00:43:57,640
Speaker 4: will look at me and she'll she'll go, I am

834
00:43:57,800 --> 00:44:01,279
Speaker 4: feeling really angry right now, and it is building in

835
00:44:01,360 --> 00:44:03,920
Speaker 4: my body and I've got to scream. It's like, all right,

836
00:44:04,000 --> 00:44:06,520
Speaker 4: we're going outside to scream. I'm like, imagine if we

837
00:44:06,560 --> 00:44:11,720
Speaker 4: could all say things like that, so good, so good.

838
00:44:12,080 --> 00:44:14,879
Speaker 4: I know, right she's been taught either by her mum

839
00:44:15,360 --> 00:44:18,319
Speaker 4: or her therapist, god lover, but I just love that.

840
00:44:18,440 --> 00:44:20,680
Speaker 4: I'm like, Wow, if we could all just be that

841
00:44:20,800 --> 00:44:24,120
Speaker 4: expressive from such a young age, you know, we'd be

842
00:44:24,280 --> 00:44:27,440
Speaker 4: we'd be a lot more connected than probably you know,

843
00:44:27,840 --> 00:44:31,960
Speaker 4: a lot of us are not. But yeah, I love it.

844
00:44:31,880 --> 00:44:33,960
Speaker 5: It's the innocence you know, children, isn't it. You know,

845
00:44:34,560 --> 00:44:38,439
Speaker 5: we're corrupted by the world, the world type of thing,

846
00:44:38,520 --> 00:44:40,360
Speaker 5: you know. But I just want to just sort of

847
00:44:40,400 --> 00:44:43,200
Speaker 5: ad to go back to what you said came before

848
00:44:43,320 --> 00:44:46,240
Speaker 5: about that fear. You know, you're mentioning that fear. And

849
00:44:46,360 --> 00:44:48,879
Speaker 5: because of that fear and the hurts from childhood, right,

850
00:44:49,000 --> 00:44:52,480
Speaker 5: we build this shell around us, right, And that's and

851
00:44:52,480 --> 00:44:56,080
Speaker 5: that shell tells us not to be vulnerable, because every

852
00:44:56,120 --> 00:44:59,480
Speaker 5: time I was vulnerable as a child, I was not

853
00:44:59,520 --> 00:45:01,600
Speaker 5: given by in fact, love was taken away from me,

854
00:45:01,760 --> 00:45:03,840
Speaker 5: or I was punished for that, or I was abused

855
00:45:04,239 --> 00:45:06,880
Speaker 5: things like that, right, And so what happens is that

856
00:45:06,920 --> 00:45:11,000
Speaker 5: shell stays with us. And when we get those types

857
00:45:11,040 --> 00:45:14,160
Speaker 5: of people who've been so hurting in therapy, no way

858
00:45:14,360 --> 00:45:16,359
Speaker 5: they're going to just at a whim just say, oh, okay,

859
00:45:16,400 --> 00:45:19,400
Speaker 5: I'm going to be vulnerable now, right, a complete stranger

860
00:45:20,480 --> 00:45:23,160
Speaker 5: in the worst time of my life. Yeah, in my relationship.

861
00:45:23,280 --> 00:45:28,240
Speaker 5: So but what couples therapy is about, it's about showing

862
00:45:28,280 --> 00:45:31,520
Speaker 5: that hurt individual that their partner is their source of

863
00:45:31,560 --> 00:45:34,799
Speaker 5: safety and their source of comfort, right, and it might

864
00:45:34,840 --> 00:45:37,120
Speaker 5: not be that way right at the start of therapy.

865
00:45:37,160 --> 00:45:39,160
Speaker 5: They might have hurt each other so much and there's

866
00:45:39,160 --> 00:45:42,799
Speaker 5: so much distrust and betrayal there. But our job as

867
00:45:42,880 --> 00:45:45,520
Speaker 5: therapist is to be able to create that what you know,

868
00:45:45,560 --> 00:45:48,480
Speaker 5: they would cause we would call secure attachment right between

869
00:45:48,560 --> 00:45:52,880
Speaker 5: the two the two individuals. And once we reach to

870
00:45:53,360 --> 00:45:57,240
Speaker 5: secure attachment, then each party feels able to be vulnerable

871
00:45:57,239 --> 00:46:01,160
Speaker 5: with each other and then meta emotions build and then

872
00:46:01,200 --> 00:46:05,400
Speaker 5: they can emotionally connect reconnect, and that's just blossoms. So

873
00:46:05,640 --> 00:46:08,400
Speaker 5: it is coming right back to that fear stuff of

874
00:46:08,520 --> 00:46:13,120
Speaker 5: childhood and undoing that I guess within the therapeutic situation, and.

875
00:46:13,080 --> 00:46:14,640
Speaker 1: It might if I can just add, because I think

876
00:46:14,680 --> 00:46:17,600
Speaker 1: this would be something really helpful for your listeners to understand,

877
00:46:17,760 --> 00:46:21,560
Speaker 1: is that the fear is really profound, like it's on

878
00:46:21,640 --> 00:46:25,759
Speaker 1: a visceral level, Like it's like a phobia.

879
00:46:25,480 --> 00:46:25,680
Speaker 5: You know.

880
00:46:25,880 --> 00:46:30,480
Speaker 1: Like some people are just so distressed or uncomfortable with

881
00:46:30,680 --> 00:46:35,400
Speaker 1: any feelings of vulnerability that they can actually become completely mute,

882
00:46:35,520 --> 00:46:38,480
Speaker 1: like unable to speak when they get overwhelmed with emotion.

883
00:46:39,160 --> 00:46:41,560
Speaker 1: And that obviously for the person that's trying to connect

884
00:46:41,640 --> 00:46:44,640
Speaker 1: with them is really challenging. But we also really have

885
00:46:44,719 --> 00:46:48,960
Speaker 1: to understand that the person who hasn't been really guided

886
00:46:49,000 --> 00:46:51,000
Speaker 1: on how to get in touch with their emotions, like,

887
00:46:51,040 --> 00:46:53,439
Speaker 1: they're in a lot of distress when they're shout down,

888
00:46:53,440 --> 00:46:57,839
Speaker 1: they're very, very overwhelmed, and they're very uncomfortable. And if

889
00:46:57,840 --> 00:46:59,919
Speaker 1: you can think of your worse fear like mine would

890
00:46:59,920 --> 00:47:02,880
Speaker 1: be walking to the edge of a cliff, like and

891
00:47:03,000 --> 00:47:05,680
Speaker 1: just jumping off. Like that's what we're asking people to

892
00:47:05,800 --> 00:47:08,719
Speaker 1: do when we're asking them to talk about their emotions,

893
00:47:08,800 --> 00:47:13,319
Speaker 1: and we don't give that enough enough credit. How hard

894
00:47:13,400 --> 00:47:13,759
Speaker 1: that is.

895
00:47:19,560 --> 00:47:22,560
Speaker 4: If you're in a relationship with someone who, Okay, you've

896
00:47:22,600 --> 00:47:26,040
Speaker 4: recognized this person is completely shut down to having a

897
00:47:26,080 --> 00:47:30,720
Speaker 4: vulnerable conversation about their feelings because okay, now I understand

898
00:47:30,760 --> 00:47:34,040
Speaker 4: it's about fear. What would I do then? How do

899
00:47:34,160 --> 00:47:38,440
Speaker 4: I support that person to have a conversation about their feelings.

900
00:47:39,400 --> 00:47:41,960
Speaker 2: You're asking the right person, because I'm married to the guys.

901
00:47:44,400 --> 00:47:45,759
Speaker 3: Is it something you guys go through?

902
00:47:47,840 --> 00:47:51,120
Speaker 5: Your friendly neighbor. Psychologists also have problems.

903
00:47:52,120 --> 00:47:53,000
Speaker 3: You're human.

904
00:47:55,120 --> 00:47:59,640
Speaker 5: And we all struggle, right, And no, I'm not comfortable

905
00:47:59,640 --> 00:48:02,799
Speaker 5: with talking about emotions in my personal life. I'm great

906
00:48:02,840 --> 00:48:05,719
Speaker 5: at you know, my therapy stuff because it's other people's emotions,

907
00:48:05,719 --> 00:48:08,239
Speaker 5: but you know, I can guide them through that. But

908
00:48:08,920 --> 00:48:11,799
Speaker 5: just to feel my own that that's that's difficult for me.

909
00:48:11,840 --> 00:48:15,200
Speaker 5: And you know, with through all the stuff that we've learned,

910
00:48:15,239 --> 00:48:18,480
Speaker 5: you know, as professionals, but also growing in our emotional

911
00:48:18,560 --> 00:48:23,080
Speaker 5: connection as a married couple. And Carrie carry is a

912
00:48:23,160 --> 00:48:25,960
Speaker 5: natural at this stuff, right she she really is, and

913
00:48:26,080 --> 00:48:29,040
Speaker 5: she lives and breathes, breathes and stuff. I've learned a

914
00:48:29,120 --> 00:48:32,560
Speaker 5: lot from her, you know, personally, and she's provided me

915
00:48:32,680 --> 00:48:36,200
Speaker 5: with a secure base, you know, emotionally, so that you

916
00:48:36,239 --> 00:48:38,719
Speaker 5: know when I when when when emotions come up for me,

917
00:48:38,840 --> 00:48:43,000
Speaker 5: especially those difficult, painful emotions and negative emotions, when I

918
00:48:43,040 --> 00:48:45,640
Speaker 5: start to feel that my natural interestinct is to withdraw

919
00:48:45,760 --> 00:48:49,600
Speaker 5: into myself and that's because of my stuff, my baggage

920
00:48:49,640 --> 00:48:52,960
Speaker 5: that I'm carrying from childhood and everything like that. But

921
00:48:53,000 --> 00:48:56,279
Speaker 5: what has helped me is that being married to Kerry,

922
00:48:56,320 --> 00:49:00,200
Speaker 5: and she loves to talk about her own emotions in

923
00:49:00,239 --> 00:49:03,680
Speaker 5: a very articulate way. She will encourage me to do that,

924
00:49:03,719 --> 00:49:08,279
Speaker 5: but she does it gentlely, and a gentleness comes this

925
00:49:08,440 --> 00:49:12,000
Speaker 5: realization that oh, okay, well here's someone here's willing to

926
00:49:12,040 --> 00:49:16,120
Speaker 5: see me, hear me, and understand me without judgment, right

927
00:49:16,719 --> 00:49:20,000
Speaker 5: without without any sort of repercussions for feeling the way

928
00:49:20,040 --> 00:49:22,640
Speaker 5: I feel, even if it's a negative emotion, and that

929
00:49:22,800 --> 00:49:26,440
Speaker 5: provides me with a secure base to go okay. So

930
00:49:26,640 --> 00:49:29,799
Speaker 5: emotions are actually okay, you know. And they're not these

931
00:49:29,800 --> 00:49:32,680
Speaker 5: things I should hide away and be ashamed of. They

932
00:49:32,719 --> 00:49:35,399
Speaker 5: are things that are naturally occurring within me and are

933
00:49:35,440 --> 00:49:37,359
Speaker 5: going to be encouraged by the one that I love

934
00:49:37,400 --> 00:49:40,640
Speaker 5: and the one who loves me. And therefore I'm more

935
00:49:40,680 --> 00:49:44,440
Speaker 5: willing to feel able. I feel empowered enough to be

936
00:49:44,520 --> 00:49:48,359
Speaker 5: able to be open about those and to validation and

937
00:49:48,360 --> 00:49:52,200
Speaker 5: compassion and unconditional love. And that's how that works and

938
00:49:52,680 --> 00:49:55,239
Speaker 5: what brings that type of person with their difficulties with

939
00:49:55,280 --> 00:50:01,000
Speaker 5: emotions and difficulties with better emotions out to talk openly

940
00:50:01,040 --> 00:50:03,560
Speaker 5: with people that you trust that you feel secure here.

941
00:50:05,520 --> 00:50:08,800
Speaker 3: I'm glad you said that, Adrian, with people you trust,

942
00:50:08,880 --> 00:50:13,040
Speaker 3: because some of us tend to overshare with people that

943
00:50:13,040 --> 00:50:17,120
Speaker 3: that and you kind of got, why are they telling

944
00:50:17,160 --> 00:50:19,720
Speaker 3: me this? You know they don't know me from Adam.

945
00:50:19,960 --> 00:50:23,800
Speaker 3: I also have that with with my charity, my Men's Team,

946
00:50:23,960 --> 00:50:26,560
Speaker 3: and we have our we have our team, and you

947
00:50:26,640 --> 00:50:28,680
Speaker 3: know will be and this is the this has been

948
00:50:28,680 --> 00:50:32,040
Speaker 3: That tricky thing is to get men to come and

949
00:50:32,160 --> 00:50:35,719
Speaker 3: share what's going on, share their life in that way.

950
00:50:35,800 --> 00:50:38,520
Speaker 3: But I always encourage guys just just do as much

951
00:50:38,560 --> 00:50:41,000
Speaker 3: as you're comfortable with. And it's going to take a

952
00:50:41,000 --> 00:50:44,600
Speaker 3: little time to learn to trust this group. They may

953
00:50:44,640 --> 00:50:47,400
Speaker 3: be friends, but they also may be strangers. But I

954
00:50:47,440 --> 00:50:51,840
Speaker 3: think it's really important to hold in you know, what

955
00:50:52,040 --> 00:50:55,240
Speaker 3: is sacred to you. Until you have that that trust

956
00:50:55,840 --> 00:51:00,520
Speaker 3: in yourself and that it's been it's reflected with the

957
00:51:00,520 --> 00:51:01,759
Speaker 3: people that you're sharing are with.

958
00:51:02,560 --> 00:51:05,440
Speaker 1: Yeah. Absolutely, coming back to what you were saying, Ali

959
00:51:06,280 --> 00:51:09,120
Speaker 1: about what do you do if you've got a partner

960
00:51:09,400 --> 00:51:12,279
Speaker 1: who withdraws a lot. I think that's probably one of

961
00:51:12,280 --> 00:51:14,360
Speaker 1: the biggest things that we actually see as a problem

962
00:51:14,400 --> 00:51:18,080
Speaker 1: in couples therapy is something that is termed the distance

963
00:51:18,120 --> 00:51:21,520
Speaker 1: of pursuer dynamic. So that's a dynamic where we've got

964
00:51:21,560 --> 00:51:24,040
Speaker 1: one party and in our relationship, that would be me

965
00:51:24,560 --> 00:51:27,920
Speaker 1: who's in pursuit of Let's sit down, let's talk about

966
00:51:27,920 --> 00:51:31,160
Speaker 1: our feelings, let's talk about this issue, let's try and

967
00:51:31,239 --> 00:51:33,879
Speaker 1: sort this out, and then we've got one person who

968
00:51:34,320 --> 00:51:37,399
Speaker 1: is the distancer or with the withdrawer. So any sign

969
00:51:37,480 --> 00:51:41,360
Speaker 1: of conflict, they just retreat and withdraw. And so the

970
00:51:41,400 --> 00:51:43,920
Speaker 1: important thing is not to get caught up in the

971
00:51:43,960 --> 00:51:48,200
Speaker 1: distance of pursuer dynamic, because the more the pursuer pursues,

972
00:51:48,280 --> 00:51:51,239
Speaker 1: the more the distance a distances, and the more the

973
00:51:51,320 --> 00:51:55,360
Speaker 1: distance are distances, the more it initiates or promotes the

974
00:51:55,560 --> 00:51:58,680
Speaker 1: pursuer to get in pursuit. So we've just got to

975
00:51:58,760 --> 00:52:02,480
Speaker 1: recognize that that the dynamic that might be happening in

976
00:52:02,520 --> 00:52:05,719
Speaker 1: our relationship. Adrian was very kind with some of the

977
00:52:05,719 --> 00:52:08,480
Speaker 1: things that he has said about me, and I hope

978
00:52:08,520 --> 00:52:10,839
Speaker 1: that most of it's true, but we've definitely had our

979
00:52:10,880 --> 00:52:15,960
Speaker 1: distance to pursue a dynamic. There's really valid reasons why

980
00:52:16,120 --> 00:52:19,840
Speaker 1: Adrian withdraws and shuts down in conflict that make a

981
00:52:19,840 --> 00:52:23,240
Speaker 1: lot of sense to me. But likewise, there's very valid

982
00:52:23,280 --> 00:52:26,880
Speaker 1: reasons from my early life why I pursue conflict and

983
00:52:26,920 --> 00:52:30,839
Speaker 1: why I don't want to leave things undone. And I

984
00:52:30,880 --> 00:52:34,680
Speaker 1: think that's a very very important thing for people to understand,

985
00:52:34,880 --> 00:52:38,879
Speaker 1: is that there's a reason why, there's a reason behind it.

986
00:52:39,840 --> 00:52:42,640
Speaker 1: And the most beautiful thing that I see really come

987
00:52:42,680 --> 00:52:44,640
Speaker 1: about that when we unpack the distance.

988
00:52:44,680 --> 00:52:46,200
Speaker 2: The pursuer dynamic is.

989
00:52:46,600 --> 00:52:51,440
Speaker 1: The pursuer is actually trying to restore connection, and the

990
00:52:51,560 --> 00:52:55,000
Speaker 1: distance is actually trying to preserve the connection that's there

991
00:52:55,040 --> 00:52:58,719
Speaker 1: without making it get any worse. So it's so beautiful

992
00:52:58,800 --> 00:53:01,919
Speaker 1: when people actually and see we're after the same thing,

993
00:53:02,320 --> 00:53:04,720
Speaker 1: we're just trying to do it in a different way.

994
00:53:06,000 --> 00:53:08,560
Speaker 1: That's a really helpful thing for people to understand. Try

995
00:53:08,640 --> 00:53:11,359
Speaker 1: not to get caught up in the dynamic that exists there,

996
00:53:11,800 --> 00:53:15,040
Speaker 1: and remember that you're trying to go for the same goal,

997
00:53:15,080 --> 00:53:16,200
Speaker 1: which is that connection.

998
00:53:19,640 --> 00:53:21,520
Speaker 4: I've never heard that described.

999
00:53:21,040 --> 00:53:24,000
Speaker 3: Like that, and I've never so just as a just

1000
00:53:24,040 --> 00:53:27,480
Speaker 3: as on a work level, do you use those terms

1001
00:53:27,520 --> 00:53:31,200
Speaker 3: like this? It's a pursuer dynamic with your clients, do

1002
00:53:31,239 --> 00:53:34,319
Speaker 3: you is that? And that doesn't that doesn't push them

1003
00:53:34,360 --> 00:53:37,360
Speaker 3: away going off this is too bloody weird.

1004
00:53:37,920 --> 00:53:40,840
Speaker 5: But by the time you're introducing those terms, you know,

1005
00:53:40,840 --> 00:53:44,080
Speaker 5: you've got pretty good the poor with them, and the

1006
00:53:44,120 --> 00:53:46,520
Speaker 5: process in which we take them through is very gentle,

1007
00:53:47,320 --> 00:53:49,840
Speaker 5: you know. And it's it's not blaming you don't You

1008
00:53:49,880 --> 00:53:51,319
Speaker 5: don't point things at anyone.

1009
00:53:51,200 --> 00:53:52,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's important.

1010
00:53:53,280 --> 00:53:56,440
Speaker 5: Non it's confrontational in the sense that we do have

1011
00:53:56,480 --> 00:53:59,680
Speaker 5: to elicit emotions out of people and help them through those,

1012
00:53:59,719 --> 00:54:03,440
Speaker 5: but non confrontational so far as it's non blaming. So

1013
00:54:03,480 --> 00:54:06,360
Speaker 5: when we reach that time where we're talking about those

1014
00:54:06,400 --> 00:54:09,719
Speaker 5: types of terms, so for example, they already know what

1015
00:54:09,719 --> 00:54:13,919
Speaker 5: that means, the background about we've developed a very good

1016
00:54:13,920 --> 00:54:16,959
Speaker 5: before and whatnot, so they.

1017
00:54:17,000 --> 00:54:20,839
Speaker 2: Usually and it's quite validating for them.

1018
00:54:20,880 --> 00:54:24,080
Speaker 1: I think it's really so many people are like, oh,

1019
00:54:24,280 --> 00:54:25,200
Speaker 1: so this is a thing.

1020
00:54:25,280 --> 00:54:27,799
Speaker 5: I'm like, yep, right.

1021
00:54:29,360 --> 00:54:32,400
Speaker 3: The way I understand it now is exactly what I

1022
00:54:32,440 --> 00:54:36,000
Speaker 3: was sort of referring to with my mum and dad before,

1023
00:54:36,239 --> 00:54:41,200
Speaker 3: just going, here's me pursuing an emotional connection and then distancing,

1024
00:54:41,280 --> 00:54:46,040
Speaker 3: going we want to keep our connection, so don't rattle

1025
00:54:46,040 --> 00:54:46,359
Speaker 3: the cat.

1026
00:54:47,760 --> 00:54:49,680
Speaker 2: Just nice, we don't want to have problems.

1027
00:54:50,840 --> 00:54:52,799
Speaker 4: And what I what I was just going to say too,

1028
00:54:52,960 --> 00:54:55,480
Speaker 4: just as you were speaking, is that what I also

1029
00:54:55,640 --> 00:54:58,879
Speaker 4: love about the work that you both do and the

1030
00:54:58,880 --> 00:55:02,879
Speaker 4: therapy work, is you actually don't necessarily need to have

1031
00:55:03,480 --> 00:55:07,000
Speaker 4: two the partners in there together. You can actually change

1032
00:55:07,000 --> 00:55:10,600
Speaker 4: their relationship just by one person. And I think that's

1033
00:55:10,680 --> 00:55:14,200
Speaker 4: sometimes what people forget that they go, I can't get

1034
00:55:14,200 --> 00:55:16,440
Speaker 4: my partner to come with me to relationship therapy and

1035
00:55:16,520 --> 00:55:19,240
Speaker 4: while while it may fast track it and be better,

1036
00:55:20,360 --> 00:55:23,759
Speaker 4: just you can actually make a difference in the relationship. Yeah,

1037
00:55:23,840 --> 00:55:26,880
Speaker 4: once you discover the needs of yourself and perhaps the

1038
00:55:26,920 --> 00:55:29,120
Speaker 4: needs of your partner through doing the work with you guys.

1039
00:55:29,640 --> 00:55:33,879
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, absolutely, and I think that. Yeah, we've got

1040
00:55:33,880 --> 00:55:36,640
Speaker 1: two businesses, so Motivating Minds we do a lot of

1041
00:55:36,719 --> 00:55:40,480
Speaker 1: individual therapy and they're Motivating Marriages, which is our sister

1042
00:55:40,600 --> 00:55:42,840
Speaker 1: company that grew out, and Motivating Minds is where we

1043
00:55:42,880 --> 00:55:46,320
Speaker 1: do all our couple and parenting work. And so definitely,

1044
00:55:46,320 --> 00:55:49,840
Speaker 1: if people are aware that they're struggling into personally so

1045
00:55:50,000 --> 00:55:55,600
Speaker 1: with relationships, be it with their partner, their children, colleagues, friendships,

1046
00:55:55,680 --> 00:55:58,960
Speaker 1: they can definitely see an individual psychologist and do some

1047
00:55:59,000 --> 00:56:03,800
Speaker 1: phenomenal work and learning about themselves and relationships and develop

1048
00:56:03,880 --> 00:56:07,120
Speaker 1: the skills they need to become more interpersonally affective in

1049
00:56:07,200 --> 00:56:08,040
Speaker 1: their relationship.

1050
00:56:08,239 --> 00:56:13,320
Speaker 4: Yeah. Great, Oh we could talk forever. This is so interesting,

1051
00:56:13,360 --> 00:56:15,120
Speaker 4: but we do need to get to that. We do

1052
00:56:15,280 --> 00:56:16,240
Speaker 4: need to get to the shower.

1053
00:56:16,320 --> 00:56:26,160
Speaker 6: Honey, you're ready for the shower, you too, So we

1054
00:56:26,239 --> 00:56:29,799
Speaker 6: do we do something called a two minute shower, and

1055
00:56:30,000 --> 00:56:32,480
Speaker 6: this is where we just ask you a series of

1056
00:56:32,560 --> 00:56:36,480
Speaker 6: questions and so keep your answers short one word.

1057
00:56:36,239 --> 00:56:38,040
Speaker 4: But if you need a few more words, we allow

1058
00:56:38,080 --> 00:56:40,080
Speaker 4: that as well. So we will ask the same question

1059
00:56:40,160 --> 00:56:40,719
Speaker 4: to both of you.

1060
00:56:41,760 --> 00:56:42,480
Speaker 3: Who's funnier?

1061
00:56:44,160 --> 00:56:48,640
Speaker 5: Oh, that's a hard one. We both think we're.

1062
00:56:50,840 --> 00:56:51,680
Speaker 2: We're both equally.

1063
00:56:52,480 --> 00:56:53,120
Speaker 4: It's a tie.

1064
00:56:53,200 --> 00:56:55,600
Speaker 3: Okay, we're having a long a bit of a longer shower.

1065
00:56:55,960 --> 00:56:58,000
Speaker 3: How important is humor in a relationship?

1066
00:56:58,760 --> 00:56:59,800
Speaker 2: Massively important?

1067
00:57:00,120 --> 00:57:05,799
Speaker 4: Yeah, a great agreat. What is your partner's basic philosophy

1068
00:57:05,840 --> 00:57:06,320
Speaker 4: in life?

1069
00:57:07,400 --> 00:57:14,160
Speaker 5: Carrie's is to love pretty much, love everyone, forgive people

1070
00:57:14,520 --> 00:57:16,919
Speaker 5: and see people for who they are, not just for good,

1071
00:57:16,960 --> 00:57:19,520
Speaker 5: but also they're not so great as well, and to

1072
00:57:19,600 --> 00:57:22,840
Speaker 5: exit accepting Yeah, and sums you want?

1073
00:57:23,200 --> 00:57:28,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, agents I think would be if you're going to

1074
00:57:28,480 --> 00:57:33,200
Speaker 1: do something, do it right and do it well. Yeah.

1075
00:57:35,480 --> 00:57:38,240
Speaker 3: What what what do you miss when you're not together?

1076
00:57:39,880 --> 00:57:45,320
Speaker 5: I'm carry Carry is a very big presence, but you

1077
00:57:45,320 --> 00:57:48,479
Speaker 5: wouldn't know that outside of the home. But she's really

1078
00:57:48,560 --> 00:57:51,600
Speaker 5: big present in our in our marriage, and when she's

1079
00:57:51,640 --> 00:57:55,560
Speaker 5: not there, it's just I just miss you. He's just

1080
00:57:55,600 --> 00:58:00,240
Speaker 5: not there, And yeah, just missed a lot about her, actually, yeah.

1081
00:58:00,000 --> 00:58:04,880
Speaker 1: Probably miss the comfort and safety of Adrian. He's very

1082
00:58:04,920 --> 00:58:10,640
Speaker 1: stable and very comfortable and safe. World feels safe with him.

1083
00:58:10,760 --> 00:58:11,200
Speaker 5: Yes.

1084
00:58:11,440 --> 00:58:15,640
Speaker 4: Nice. What the world needs more of is.

1085
00:58:20,760 --> 00:58:25,480
Speaker 1: People really seeing and knowing one another on a deep

1086
00:58:25,760 --> 00:58:26,880
Speaker 1: empathic level.

1087
00:58:29,400 --> 00:58:30,280
Speaker 5: That's pretty much.

1088
00:58:33,760 --> 00:58:38,720
Speaker 3: Just ask another question just as on that, what what

1089
00:58:38,800 --> 00:58:43,640
Speaker 3: part does technology and do you see a part for

1090
00:58:43,760 --> 00:58:45,840
Speaker 3: phones and things like that in that getting to know

1091
00:58:45,920 --> 00:58:46,800
Speaker 3: each other really well?

1092
00:58:47,000 --> 00:58:50,320
Speaker 5: It's definitely a distraction, huge distraction. And when one of

1093
00:58:50,360 --> 00:58:53,000
Speaker 5: the workshops we run the Seven Principles for Making Marriage

1094
00:58:53,040 --> 00:58:55,520
Speaker 5: Work and actually has a section on the to help

1095
00:58:55,600 --> 00:58:59,000
Speaker 5: couples to water against that because it is a problem.

1096
00:58:59,080 --> 00:59:00,919
Speaker 3: Is that chapter call put a bloody phone down.

1097
00:59:03,360 --> 00:59:05,560
Speaker 2: And I think it creates such a false illusion.

1098
00:59:05,600 --> 00:59:07,960
Speaker 1: I think that's my heartache when it comes to anything

1099
00:59:08,080 --> 00:59:12,360
Speaker 1: social media, like, there's just such a false illusion. Even

1100
00:59:12,440 --> 00:59:15,520
Speaker 1: the stories you hear of people's heartaches usually has like

1101
00:59:15,600 --> 00:59:18,120
Speaker 1: this filter around it, whereas you know, at the end

1102
00:59:18,160 --> 00:59:21,680
Speaker 1: of the day, we're all just quite vulnerable and messy

1103
00:59:21,760 --> 00:59:24,600
Speaker 1: and we've got heartache, we've got pain, and it would

1104
00:59:24,640 --> 00:59:26,320
Speaker 1: be nice to just be real about that.

1105
00:59:27,720 --> 00:59:29,600
Speaker 3: There's a song in that. I'm going to write that down.

1106
00:59:33,240 --> 00:59:36,240
Speaker 4: I'll ask still ask the last question you can ask you, Okay,

1107
00:59:36,320 --> 00:59:45,040
Speaker 4: last question describe each other in one word, Oh, you

1108
00:59:45,080 --> 00:59:46,800
Speaker 4: can take more, It's okay.

1109
00:59:47,000 --> 00:59:53,360
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's denacious is one that comes to mind really

1110
00:59:53,360 --> 00:59:56,480
Speaker 5: extremely care of go for So you want something, you'll

1111
00:59:56,520 --> 01:00:00,600
Speaker 5: just go for it. There's no stopping it. One word.

1112
01:00:02,400 --> 01:00:05,160
Speaker 2: It has to be too beautiful heart Ah.

1113
01:00:09,040 --> 01:00:14,160
Speaker 4: I love that. Thank you so much Adrian and Kerrie

1114
01:00:14,320 --> 01:00:18,400
Speaker 4: for your time. That was so so interesting and you've

1115
01:00:18,440 --> 01:00:22,280
Speaker 4: clearly got a lot of knowledge and clearly the kindness

1116
01:00:22,800 --> 01:00:25,200
Speaker 4: of who you both are come shining through and the

1117
01:00:25,240 --> 01:00:27,840
Speaker 4: way you talk, the way you talk about your clients

1118
01:00:27,840 --> 01:00:30,120
Speaker 4: and the work that you do. So thank you so

1119
01:00:30,200 --> 01:00:31,080
Speaker 4: much for this chat.

1120
01:00:31,560 --> 01:00:33,360
Speaker 2: Thanks pleasure, Thank you for having it.

1121
01:00:33,520 --> 01:00:36,040
Speaker 5: Thank you.

1122
01:00:40,320 --> 01:00:41,200
Speaker 3: That was fantastic.

1123
01:00:41,880 --> 01:00:44,200
Speaker 4: Did it sounded like you had a lot of personal

1124
01:00:44,920 --> 01:00:48,280
Speaker 4: a lot of personal things sort of get.

1125
01:00:47,800 --> 01:00:49,600
Speaker 3: Well, you know, I'm back on the therapy train.

1126
01:00:50,240 --> 01:00:51,320
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1127
01:00:51,160 --> 01:00:54,919
Speaker 3: So I'm actually diving into some things.

1128
01:00:55,360 --> 01:00:58,840
Speaker 4: And okay, that's where some of those questions were coming from, right.

1129
01:00:58,920 --> 01:01:00,840
Speaker 3: They're just things of things have sort of just a

1130
01:01:00,880 --> 01:01:04,520
Speaker 3: bit up for me in that way, and so it

1131
01:01:04,640 --> 01:01:07,880
Speaker 3: was just lovely to speak. And one of the things

1132
01:01:07,920 --> 01:01:12,480
Speaker 3: that's been I guess pointed out to me is after

1133
01:01:12,520 --> 01:01:16,920
Speaker 3: doing therapy for many years is how much I hide

1134
01:01:17,000 --> 01:01:19,160
Speaker 3: behind labels.

1135
01:01:19,760 --> 01:01:23,480
Speaker 4: And oh, okay, that makes sense when you're asking those questions.

1136
01:01:23,600 --> 01:01:27,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, and it's like, well, what does that actually mean?

1137
01:01:27,920 --> 01:01:29,320
Speaker 3: You know, I'm like, oh, well this and this, and

1138
01:01:30,120 --> 01:01:33,360
Speaker 3: therapist is like yeah, but that seems like a bit

1139
01:01:33,400 --> 01:01:37,240
Speaker 3: of gobbledy goop and I'm like, oh shit, right. So

1140
01:01:37,480 --> 01:01:41,200
Speaker 3: it's really been great for me to get to the

1141
01:01:41,320 --> 01:01:45,200
Speaker 3: true kernel of what it is that I'm feeling. And

1142
01:01:45,240 --> 01:01:47,800
Speaker 3: that's when I that's when I said, you know about fear,

1143
01:01:48,480 --> 01:01:51,880
Speaker 3: going wow, I still live with a whole lot of fear,

1144
01:01:52,680 --> 01:01:56,640
Speaker 3: so I'm unraveling that for myself. So but when she

1145
01:01:56,720 --> 01:02:01,400
Speaker 3: talked when they mentioned the distance pursuer dynamic, oh god,

1146
01:02:02,280 --> 01:02:06,120
Speaker 3: need another I don't need another label to describe something,

1147
01:02:06,680 --> 01:02:10,440
Speaker 3: right though, what she was what they were actually describing,

1148
01:02:10,840 --> 01:02:16,080
Speaker 3: was quite brilliant in that, you know, chasing someone's running

1149
01:02:16,120 --> 01:02:21,360
Speaker 3: away from someone who's trying to actually pursue depth. And

1150
01:02:21,400 --> 01:02:23,800
Speaker 3: I think we can have a long chat about this afterwards,

1151
01:02:25,080 --> 01:02:28,680
Speaker 3: because I reckon we're prime candidates in our own way

1152
01:02:28,800 --> 01:02:33,080
Speaker 3: for it, which is great. I'll do't mind opening up

1153
01:02:33,120 --> 01:02:35,280
Speaker 3: that that can of worms with you, because at the

1154
01:02:35,360 --> 01:02:38,080
Speaker 3: end of the day, what I do know from our

1155
01:02:38,160 --> 01:02:40,600
Speaker 3: work together and our therapy and our chats that we

1156
01:02:40,720 --> 01:02:46,320
Speaker 3: always are way closer as a result. It's worth it.

1157
01:02:46,320 --> 01:02:49,000
Speaker 3: It's worth it the pain of going I have to

1158
01:02:49,000 --> 01:02:50,600
Speaker 3: talk about this, Yes we do.

1159
01:02:51,080 --> 01:02:54,080
Speaker 4: It's always worse afterwards. And I love the thing, you know,

1160
01:02:54,160 --> 01:02:56,720
Speaker 4: just those small things that they said about, you know,

1161
01:02:56,720 --> 01:02:59,560
Speaker 4: what difference can we make in our relationships?

1162
01:02:59,600 --> 01:02:59,760
Speaker 5: Now?

1163
01:03:00,040 --> 01:03:04,160
Speaker 4: It was small things often six second kiss.

1164
01:03:04,800 --> 01:03:07,800
Speaker 3: Which we did the other day. Yes, I know, and

1165
01:03:08,080 --> 01:03:12,400
Speaker 3: I haven't spoken about it. Is my gotman, honey. It

1166
01:03:12,520 --> 01:03:14,840
Speaker 3: was so sweet and I.

1167
01:03:14,800 --> 01:03:20,560
Speaker 4: Loved it and how are you? And functional conflict as well,

1168
01:03:21,360 --> 01:03:23,720
Speaker 4: all of those I know that's another label, but they

1169
01:03:23,720 --> 01:03:28,400
Speaker 4: did explain it. No, they explained it really well, just

1170
01:03:28,400 --> 01:03:31,919
Speaker 4: just the gentleness of understanding conflict and where it comes from.

1171
01:03:32,000 --> 01:03:35,680
Speaker 4: And so it's to me that was like I don't

1172
01:03:35,720 --> 01:03:37,280
Speaker 4: call names, you know what I mean, Like, it was

1173
01:03:37,320 --> 01:03:40,520
Speaker 4: just being able to have conflict but make it functional

1174
01:03:40,600 --> 01:03:44,560
Speaker 4: so you don't end up more torn apart than where

1175
01:03:44,600 --> 01:03:47,439
Speaker 4: you started. So that's the way I took it though.

1176
01:03:47,680 --> 01:03:51,240
Speaker 4: They just there was just a simplicity to how they

1177
01:03:51,240 --> 01:03:55,440
Speaker 4: were talking about relationships and therapy and it was just

1178
01:03:55,600 --> 01:03:56,440
Speaker 4: really beautiful.

1179
01:03:56,560 --> 01:03:58,720
Speaker 3: I agree, And the fact that they said that humor

1180
01:03:58,760 --> 01:04:01,000
Speaker 3: is a big part of it, and I often will

1181
01:04:01,120 --> 01:04:10,640
Speaker 3: lead into a joke to not feel what's actually going

1182
01:04:10,680 --> 01:04:14,520
Speaker 3: on though. The humor is a good thing. Yeah, you know,

1183
01:04:14,600 --> 01:04:16,760
Speaker 3: as long as it's not a power leak.

1184
01:04:17,960 --> 01:04:21,240
Speaker 4: Yeah you know, or used to push away correct Yeah.

1185
01:04:21,320 --> 01:04:25,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, that's good. What a great way to start

1186
01:04:25,040 --> 01:04:29,160
Speaker 3: the year. Yes, for those of us desiring relationship, for

1187
01:04:29,240 --> 01:04:34,320
Speaker 3: those dealing with the end of a relationship, what great

1188
01:04:34,360 --> 01:04:38,000
Speaker 3: information to have at the beginning of the year when

1189
01:04:38,040 --> 01:04:39,360
Speaker 3: you're setting goals.

1190
01:04:39,160 --> 01:04:42,320
Speaker 4: Or and again if you're single or you know, wh

1191
01:04:43,280 --> 01:04:45,600
Speaker 4: where can you use it with yours at work, or

1192
01:04:45,640 --> 01:04:48,160
Speaker 4: your or your best friend or you just need to

1193
01:04:48,160 --> 01:04:52,320
Speaker 4: be a lover? Yeah yeah, so it fits in everywhere.

1194
01:04:53,040 --> 01:04:55,880
Speaker 3: I hope you enjoyed it. Listener. I hope you enjoyed

1195
01:04:55,880 --> 01:05:00,400
Speaker 3: this episode. And because I certainly didn't, got lot out

1196
01:05:00,440 --> 01:05:03,000
Speaker 3: of it. I think that we are we listen and

1197
01:05:03,160 --> 01:05:06,560
Speaker 3: more six second kisses, more small things often, and more

1198
01:05:06,600 --> 01:05:10,040
Speaker 3: State of the Union speeches or not speeches conversations.

1199
01:05:10,520 --> 01:05:12,840
Speaker 4: That's right, Barack Obama, here we come.

1200
01:05:12,960 --> 01:05:13,120
Speaker 5: Yeah.

1201
01:05:13,200 --> 01:05:17,320
Speaker 3: Yeah. So until next time on separate bathrooms, please please

1202
01:05:17,320 --> 01:05:20,520
Speaker 3: be kind to each other and be safe.

1203
01:05:20,720 --> 01:05:21,560
Speaker 4: Thanks for listening.