WEBVTT - Part 1: Donald Trump wants to put humans on Mars 0:00:01.200 --> 0:00:01.319 Hi. 0:00:01.760 --> 0:00:03.920 This week, as we work on new episodes for you, 0:00:04.000 --> 0:00:06.480 we're bringing you some of our favorites from the past year, 0:00:06.920 --> 0:00:09.880 and this episode about Donald Trump's plans to write the 0:00:09.920 --> 0:00:13.000 next chapter in US space flight history is one of them. 0:00:13.320 --> 0:00:16.720 We will pursue our manifest Destiny into the Stars, launching 0:00:16.760 --> 0:00:21.680 American astronauts to plant the stars and stripes on the 0:00:21.720 --> 0:00:22.760 planet Mars. 0:00:25.239 --> 0:00:27.520 Trump says he wants to get the first humans to 0:00:27.600 --> 0:00:29.720 land on Mars before he leaves office. 0:00:29.840 --> 0:00:33.400 My plan, I'll talk to Elin get those rocket ships going, 0:00:33.440 --> 0:00:36.720 because we want to reach Mars before the end of 0:00:36.760 --> 0:00:37.240 my term. 0:00:37.320 --> 0:00:38.600 We want to do it. 0:00:38.600 --> 0:00:42.320 It's an ambitious goal, one that has already reshaped America's 0:00:42.320 --> 0:00:47.519 space program, with billions being redirected towards it. Today, reporter 0:00:47.560 --> 0:00:50.040 at the Wall Street Journal Emily Glazer on what has 0:00:50.040 --> 0:00:53.000 happened behind the scenes at NASA and the role Elon 0:00:53.080 --> 0:01:00.240 Musk played in it all. It's Monday, January five, is 0:01:00.280 --> 0:01:02.600 part one of a two pot interview that we originally 0:01:02.600 --> 0:01:09.479 published in April. Emily, you were watching as Donald Trump 0:01:09.560 --> 0:01:12.760 announced that he wanted to plant a flag on Mars. 0:01:13.360 --> 0:01:15.880 So can you describe to me what it was like 0:01:16.040 --> 0:01:16.959 to hear him say that. 0:01:17.400 --> 0:01:20.440 You know, I was actually at the World Economic Forum 0:01:20.680 --> 0:01:24.280 atop the Swiss Mountains in Davos, Switzerland, And I am 0:01:24.319 --> 0:01:27.360 not saying that as a humble brag. I swear I'm 0:01:27.440 --> 0:01:31.640 saying that because there are a lot of space related 0:01:31.920 --> 0:01:37.759 panels and programming there and different government space officials from 0:01:37.920 --> 0:01:40.280 all over the world, and so it was a really 0:01:40.360 --> 0:01:45.240 interesting place to be, as President Trump was during his inauguration, 0:01:45.440 --> 0:01:49.000 but also to go to these various space events, and 0:01:49.240 --> 0:01:54.800 people were just floored. They were so excited. Multiple different people, 0:01:55.360 --> 0:01:57.800 the head of the European Space Agency and the head 0:01:57.800 --> 0:02:01.080 of the Japanese Space Agency, he both sat on the 0:02:01.120 --> 0:02:04.880 record and interviews that it was akin to when JFK 0:02:05.120 --> 0:02:07.320 talked about getting men on the Moon. I mean, this 0:02:07.520 --> 0:02:11.720 was like a moment, and many in the space community 0:02:11.760 --> 0:02:15.360 were very excited. They also wanted to get in on it. 0:02:15.720 --> 0:02:18.440 I had the head of, you know, the Japanese Space 0:02:18.480 --> 0:02:22.000 Agency talk about all the work Japan was doing in 0:02:22.480 --> 0:02:26.639 researching minerals in Mars, and the European Space Agency was 0:02:26.680 --> 0:02:29.400 talking about all of the collaboration, and then a whole 0:02:29.400 --> 0:02:31.840 bunch of different space companies that were on the ground 0:02:31.880 --> 0:02:34.280 there trying to kind of make a name for themselves. 0:02:34.840 --> 0:02:37.079 So I think that was when we were sort of like, oh, 0:02:37.400 --> 0:02:39.639 now that President Trump is putting it in his inaugural 0:02:39.680 --> 0:02:42.920 address is a very big deal and something that the 0:02:42.960 --> 0:02:45.399 White House may be prioritizing. 0:02:45.880 --> 0:02:48.839 And so when you heard Trump talk about mos, did 0:02:48.840 --> 0:02:50.920 you immediately think about Alon? 0:02:51.160 --> 0:02:53.640 I think about Elon a lot, It's part of my job, 0:02:55.680 --> 0:02:58.760 but absolutely I did. I mean, look, the Wall Street 0:02:58.840 --> 0:03:02.280 Journal first broke the store worry about how Elon Musk 0:03:02.320 --> 0:03:05.600 and Donald Trump had talked about Musk being an advisor 0:03:05.880 --> 0:03:09.320 should Trump win. And so the relationship between Elon Musk 0:03:09.360 --> 0:03:11.799 and Donald Trump has been on my mind for more 0:03:11.840 --> 0:03:16.079 than a year. We wrote the article about Elon giving 0:03:16.320 --> 0:03:20.960 roughly forty five million dollars a month toward reelecting President Trump. 0:03:21.360 --> 0:03:23.280 And part of the reason, you know, why I was 0:03:23.320 --> 0:03:26.880 working on this is the fruits of Elon's labors are 0:03:26.919 --> 0:03:31.120 coming home to roost. And so when I heard that 0:03:31.480 --> 0:03:34.440 in the inaugural address, the first thing that I thought 0:03:34.440 --> 0:03:38.200 of was, Wow, Elon's influence. This is big time. 0:03:38.800 --> 0:03:41.560 And Donald Trump recently announced his pick to take over 0:03:41.800 --> 0:03:46.840 leading the Space Agency NASA, a billionaire entrepreneur named Jared Isaacman. 0:03:47.080 --> 0:03:48.560 So what do we know about him? 0:03:48.880 --> 0:03:51.840 Jared is an astronaut, and so he knows a lot 0:03:51.880 --> 0:03:55.840 about space. He has experience, of course in space actually 0:03:55.920 --> 0:04:00.720 like flying himself. And Elon Musk and to Isaacman have 0:04:00.800 --> 0:04:01.720 known each other for years. 0:04:02.080 --> 0:04:04.080 I mean, I've been a you know, an aviation in 0:04:04.120 --> 0:04:09.600 space enthusiast since Wilson's kindergarten. And you know, I thought, 0:04:09.760 --> 0:04:11.800 you know, becoming an astronaut you a better chance of 0:04:11.840 --> 0:04:15.280 getting struck by lightning. So I had this parallel career 0:04:15.280 --> 0:04:15.920 in aviation. 0:04:16.360 --> 0:04:20.240 Jared was an astronaut on SpaceX flights. The two we 0:04:20.320 --> 0:04:24.479 know have hung out socially, and they've even given to 0:04:24.680 --> 0:04:28.919 charitable causes together. And so far, everybody that I and 0:04:28.960 --> 0:04:32.440 my colleagues have talked to have said that Isaacman, while 0:04:32.480 --> 0:04:36.599 he's not like necessarily a traditional choice, you know, prior 0:04:36.680 --> 0:04:42.279 to Asset administrator, Jim Bridenstein was a congressman beforehand, we've 0:04:42.360 --> 0:04:46.560 largely heard very positive things about Jared. Jared is someone 0:04:46.640 --> 0:04:50.800 who really believes in exploring space, and a number of 0:04:50.839 --> 0:04:53.960 people have actually shared that he is very risk tolerant, 0:04:54.160 --> 0:04:57.400 to the point where we heard that even some people 0:04:57.440 --> 0:05:00.680 at SpaceX have been worried in years past his level 0:05:00.720 --> 0:05:03.120 of risk, more so than the company itself. 0:05:03.520 --> 0:05:06.760 My top agenda, what I'm incredibly passionate about, is the 0:05:07.080 --> 0:05:10.320 competitiveness of our nation. You know, we started leading in 0:05:10.320 --> 0:05:13.279 this new domain. We have to continue to do so. 0:05:13.279 --> 0:05:16.200 So for example, on one mission that he flew, he 0:05:16.240 --> 0:05:18.840 wanted to go at a higher altitude and that worried 0:05:18.920 --> 0:05:22.760 some people within SpaceX, and he kind of pushed for it, 0:05:22.800 --> 0:05:24.880 and they ended up flying at that higher altitude. They 0:05:24.880 --> 0:05:28.320 were worried about kind of like debris space debris, and 0:05:28.680 --> 0:05:30.920 he got his way. And so I found it really 0:05:30.960 --> 0:05:35.160 interesting that he is someone that is open to risks, 0:05:35.200 --> 0:05:37.960 and maybe that's part of what fuels this friendship with 0:05:38.000 --> 0:05:42.359 Elon Musk. But it was very interesting when we learned 0:05:42.560 --> 0:05:47.080 that Elon had actually called Jared on the phone to 0:05:47.120 --> 0:05:48.440 offer him the NASA position. 0:05:48.760 --> 0:05:50.839 And so do we know anymore about that phone call 0:05:50.880 --> 0:05:53.640 between Musk and Asakin and what was said and then 0:05:54.000 --> 0:05:56.000 I suppose what happened immediately afterwards. 0:05:56.200 --> 0:05:59.160 So we know that this phone call happened late last 0:05:59.240 --> 0:06:03.640 year and that Elon called Jared with a request, and 0:06:03.680 --> 0:06:07.839 it was basically, would Jared become the head of NASA, 0:06:08.160 --> 0:06:11.800 and part of Elon's pitch to Jared was that they 0:06:11.800 --> 0:06:15.039 could make NASA great again and work toward their shared 0:06:15.320 --> 0:06:18.960 ambition of getting humans to Mars. Our understanding is that 0:06:18.960 --> 0:06:21.920 that was something that really sat well with Jared, and 0:06:22.160 --> 0:06:26.400 soon after the call, Trump announced that Jared was appointed 0:06:26.800 --> 0:06:27.920 NASA administrator. 0:06:28.120 --> 0:06:32.680 Trump intends to put tech billionaire and entrepreneur Jared Isacman 0:06:32.800 --> 0:06:35.400 in charge of the government space agency. 0:06:35.360 --> 0:06:37.960 Isaac One's appointment could shake up the race for a man. 0:06:38.120 --> 0:06:42.080 Okay, so we have this very risk tolerant billionaire astronaut 0:06:42.080 --> 0:06:45.279 announced as the next head of NASA. We're still waiting 0:06:45.320 --> 0:06:48.840 for his confirmation and for him to begin at that role. 0:06:48.920 --> 0:06:52.400 But tell me about what's been happening behind the scenes 0:06:52.440 --> 0:06:55.400 at NASA since the Trump administration came to power. 0:06:55.800 --> 0:06:58.159 So I've been kind of thinking about this in a 0:06:58.160 --> 0:07:02.040 few different ways. One is that Elon Musk is installing 0:07:02.160 --> 0:07:07.120 loyalists as heads or key roles of crucial agencies that 0:07:07.200 --> 0:07:10.760 impact the ability to get to Mars. Obviously, that phone 0:07:10.760 --> 0:07:13.440 call with Jared is, like, you know, a huge example 0:07:13.520 --> 0:07:19.120 of that. He also has been behind the scenes navigating 0:07:19.160 --> 0:07:22.880 how to change federal spending, so to get to programs 0:07:22.880 --> 0:07:25.640 that are related to Mars. And then he also has 0:07:25.720 --> 0:07:31.400 doge where he has access to you know, technology systems, personnel, budgets, 0:07:31.440 --> 0:07:35.320 and has just tons of information. So there's been a 0:07:35.320 --> 0:07:38.040 lot that Elon has been doing behind the scenes to 0:07:38.120 --> 0:07:43.000 re order a number of NASA's programs. President Trump puts out, 0:07:43.320 --> 0:07:48.280 you know, this announcement that Jared is appointed NASA Administrator 0:07:48.880 --> 0:07:53.520 and then NASA staff on January thirty first got an 0:07:53.560 --> 0:07:58.400 email that we reviewed from the agency's acting administrator, Janet Petro. 0:07:58.520 --> 0:08:01.760 So she's the person who is lee NASA until there 0:08:01.840 --> 0:08:05.440 is a confirmed NASA administrator. And they welcomed a new 0:08:05.560 --> 0:08:10.560 senior advisor and it was a longtime SpaceX executive named 0:08:10.560 --> 0:08:14.880 Michael Altenhoffen who had worked at SpaceX for like fifteen years. 0:08:15.400 --> 0:08:17.960 And while he was at SpaceX, he also became close 0:08:18.000 --> 0:08:21.440 to Isaacman and talks to Isaacman frequently. And he took 0:08:21.520 --> 0:08:24.520 up this position right away ahead of the confirmation hearing. 0:08:25.080 --> 0:08:27.040 And the way that it was described to us is 0:08:27.080 --> 0:08:32.320 that he is basically shadowing the acting administrator. And that's 0:08:32.440 --> 0:08:35.240 just one more person who has ties to Elon Musk, 0:08:35.280 --> 0:08:39.280 who is now already at NASA even before Jared is confirmed. 0:08:42.640 --> 0:08:45.079 So as Musk wants to spait off the timeline to 0:08:45.120 --> 0:08:47.640 get to MAS, what would it take to get there? 0:08:48.280 --> 0:09:00.480 That's off to the break. So Emily, can we talk 0:09:00.520 --> 0:09:05.160 a bit more about Elon Musk and his relationship to MARS. 0:09:05.200 --> 0:09:08.000 I mean, he's spoken about it a lot in the past, 0:09:08.840 --> 0:09:13.000 you know, his vision for humanity to get there, So 0:09:13.040 --> 0:09:15.839 tell me a bit about the backstory here and how 0:09:15.880 --> 0:09:17.960 he's framing this new push. 0:09:18.280 --> 0:09:22.440 So Elon Musk founded SpaceX more than twenty years ago 0:09:22.559 --> 0:09:24.800 in two thousand and two, and the mission was to 0:09:24.920 --> 0:09:30.000 take humanity to other planets. That has totally infused SpaceX's 0:09:30.000 --> 0:09:34.040 culture with that long term goal, and SpaceX was on 0:09:34.080 --> 0:09:39.440 the brink of failure many different times. It completed a 0:09:39.520 --> 0:09:42.240 successful launch of its first rocket in two thousand and eight, 0:09:42.320 --> 0:09:45.080 after having failures beforehand. 0:09:45.840 --> 0:09:50.000 We have the Doctor SpaceX Falcon one launch pulled the 0:09:50.000 --> 0:09:50.840 Falcon How's. 0:09:50.679 --> 0:09:56.480 Clear of the tower, and it eventually developed the Falcon 0:09:56.600 --> 0:09:59.320 nine rocket and that could be partially reused. So this 0:09:59.480 --> 0:10:02.440 was a game changer in the space industry because it 0:10:02.520 --> 0:10:05.720 lowered the cost of launches and it also took the 0:10:05.760 --> 0:10:10.280 market share from incumbent rocket operators, especially a really large 0:10:10.280 --> 0:10:14.520 company like Boeing. Over the years, Elon has talked about 0:10:14.520 --> 0:10:16.800 Mars all the time, and he also talks a lot 0:10:16.800 --> 0:10:19.320 about multiplanetary life. 0:10:19.480 --> 0:10:22.200 Staship is the first rocket that has the potential to 0:10:22.200 --> 0:10:26.200 make life multiplanetary, to make us a multi planet civilization 0:10:26.360 --> 0:10:27.479 for the first time. 0:10:27.520 --> 0:10:30.960 And he envisions a world or universe. I guess I 0:10:30.960 --> 0:10:35.520 should say where there's civilization on Mars. It even got 0:10:35.520 --> 0:10:39.400 to the point where just recently SpaceX brought back these 0:10:39.480 --> 0:10:41.880 astronauts to turn them from space. It was like a 0:10:42.000 --> 0:10:45.800 huge success for SpaceX and something that was seen around 0:10:45.800 --> 0:10:49.400 the world. And Elon Musk had an interview with Fox 0:10:49.480 --> 0:10:53.640 News and as he was being interviewed and asked about 0:10:53.679 --> 0:10:57.400 all of this, he started talking about Mars and just 0:10:57.480 --> 0:10:58.760 didn't want to stop. 0:10:59.040 --> 0:11:03.120 We are going to be able to take Aschronaltz to Mars. 0:11:03.280 --> 0:11:06.160 In fact, we want to take anyone who goes to 0:11:06.160 --> 0:11:09.120 Mars and ultimately build a self sustaining civilization on Mars. 0:11:09.160 --> 0:11:11.559 That is the long term goal of the company, make 0:11:11.600 --> 0:11:12.520 life healthy planetary. 0:11:12.840 --> 0:11:14.920 And I mean, what would it actually take to make 0:11:15.000 --> 0:11:18.720 something like that reality. What is it like on Mars? 0:11:18.800 --> 0:11:21.760 And what would it take to actually set up a 0:11:21.800 --> 0:11:22.400 colony there? 0:11:22.760 --> 0:11:25.440 Ooh, those are big questions. I mean, I will say 0:11:26.800 --> 0:11:30.280 in terms of actually getting to Mars, just to break 0:11:30.280 --> 0:11:32.280 this down a little bit, it can take roughly a 0:11:32.360 --> 0:11:35.240 week to get to the Moon and back. It could 0:11:35.240 --> 0:11:38.120 take an estimated two to three years for a round 0:11:38.160 --> 0:11:40.640 trip between Earth and Mars. So let's just start there. Like, 0:11:40.720 --> 0:11:43.120 this is going to take a very long time. What 0:11:43.200 --> 0:11:45.120 some people had mentioned to me is like the clock 0:11:45.200 --> 0:11:47.680 is ticking because if Musk fields like he has this 0:11:48.320 --> 0:11:51.920 four years while President Trump is in office to try 0:11:51.920 --> 0:11:54.240 to accomplish this goal, that a number of people in 0:11:54.280 --> 0:11:57.520 the space community, both on the commercial side and government 0:11:57.600 --> 0:12:00.320 side across the world were kind of skeptical if that 0:12:00.320 --> 0:12:03.240 could happen. And then let's just talk about the cost. 0:12:03.400 --> 0:12:05.880 I mean, I talk to people that said, even if 0:12:05.920 --> 0:12:09.880 you take all of the various costs of different programs 0:12:09.880 --> 0:12:12.960 that NASA has, and if you redirected everything, so this 0:12:13.040 --> 0:12:16.080 is like tens of billions of dollars, that still wouldn't 0:12:16.120 --> 0:12:19.720 be enough. And so there are also questions of if 0:12:20.080 --> 0:12:22.720 Musk is able to shift some of the federal spending 0:12:22.800 --> 0:12:25.680 toward Mars, would he also have to self fund some 0:12:25.800 --> 0:12:28.240 of it, and we are talking about the richest man 0:12:28.280 --> 0:12:31.559 of the world, so in some ways, the sky's the limit. 0:12:32.080 --> 0:12:36.839 So everything about this seems incredibly ambitious, expensive, time consuming. 0:12:37.400 --> 0:12:39.240 Why do you think it is that Musk wants it 0:12:39.320 --> 0:12:41.480 so much to be able to build a. 0:12:41.440 --> 0:12:45.280 Colony on mass When I have talked to people close 0:12:45.320 --> 0:12:48.880 to Musk, they've told me that his ultimate ambition is 0:12:48.920 --> 0:12:51.920 to get to Mars, and that for his legacy, it's 0:12:51.960 --> 0:12:55.440 not about having power, it's not about having money, it's 0:12:55.440 --> 0:12:58.440 not about having influence. All those things are nice benefits 0:12:58.440 --> 0:13:01.439 that he is enjoying. He wants to be the person 0:13:01.800 --> 0:13:05.000 that can get people to Mars. In terms of why 0:13:05.120 --> 0:13:08.920 he wants to make life multiplanetary, I think that he 0:13:09.000 --> 0:13:11.720 feels like there should be other options besides planet Earth, 0:13:11.840 --> 0:13:15.200 so that in case there are you know, more natural 0:13:15.240 --> 0:13:18.720 disasters or other issues, that there are other options. And 0:13:18.760 --> 0:13:21.040 I think he, along with a lot of people in 0:13:21.080 --> 0:13:24.160 Silicon Valley and elsewhere, hope that they can live a 0:13:24.200 --> 0:13:26.920 really long time, and so I think he's thinking into 0:13:26.960 --> 0:13:31.280 the future, you know, generations of where will humans live 0:13:31.960 --> 0:13:35.600 if Earth continues at the rate that we're going at. 0:13:37.520 --> 0:13:40.200 Listen to part two of our interview with Emily Glazer 0:13:40.280 --> 0:13:43.120 called how a lone Musk will benefit from NASA's Mars 0:13:43.120 --> 0:13:44.800 plans is in your faith. 0:13:44.880 --> 0:13:49.600 Now, there's this program at NASA that is known as Artemis, 0:13:49.800 --> 0:13:52.760 and it's a long range plan to explore the Moon 0:13:52.880 --> 0:13:56.839 and eventually Mars. And one idea that we know Musk 0:13:57.080 --> 0:14:00.439 and government officials have talked about is a scenario where 0:14:00.559 --> 0:14:04.240 SpaceX would give up its Moon focused partamis contracts that 0:14:04.280 --> 0:14:07.840 are worth more than four billion dollars, and that would 0:14:07.920 --> 0:14:11.800 kind of shift the money behind the scenes and also 0:14:11.880 --> 0:14:16.520 frankly benefit SpaceX, which is the private space company that 0:14:16.679 --> 0:14:17.800 Elon Mask runs.