Speaker 1: I get a team.
Speaker 2: It's Harps, it's Gilasoper's, it's cook, it's us, it's the
Speaker 2: bloody you project. TIFs just over there at typ Central,
Speaker 2: drinking her own body weight in protein shaken. She gave
Speaker 2: David and Either brief That wouldn't have been a very
Speaker 2: pleasant experience for any of us if we didn't let
Speaker 2: her consume some calories before we press the go button.
Speaker 1: You do have, you do have a very short light.
Speaker 2: There's a very short timeline between when you go, oh,
Speaker 2: I think, I'm I'm hungry and now I'm a complete
Speaker 2: fucking lunatic and i want to punch someone.
Speaker 1: That's not a big gap.
Speaker 2: Is it.
Speaker 3: When I worked in hospitality all those years ago, we
Speaker 3: used to put an order into the kitchen for food,
Speaker 3: and then when we went on break, someone would come
Speaker 3: and cover us. If my food came out, was placed
Speaker 3: in front of me, and a customer walked in, I
Speaker 3: can't tell you the level of self control and emotional
Speaker 3: turmoil it took me to just keep that in and
Speaker 3: and serve the people that were standing between me and
Speaker 3: my lunch items.
Speaker 2: It seems like the spiritual revolution that was had in
Speaker 2: India is long gone. I don't want to point out,
Speaker 2: but it just seems like that might be a thing
Speaker 2: of the past.
Speaker 3: As long as I've got a bit of food in
Speaker 3: my belly, I'm good.
Speaker 2: So I don't think you can have like caveats on
Speaker 2: your spell. It's long as except when I'm punching people
Speaker 2: in the face. Then I'm pretty much the deli lama.
Speaker 1: Oh well, oh well, are you a big eater?
Speaker 4: Gillespoh not particularly, No, just normally I think I don't
Speaker 4: think I have chiffs appetite, and I certainly don't have
Speaker 4: So you've met my son James. He spends more time
Speaker 4: in the gym than I suspect you do. So heats
Speaker 4: like like there's no tomorrow. But I certainly don't eat
Speaker 4: that much.
Speaker 2: My days of eating what I just want to eat
Speaker 2: whenever I want to eat their long gone.
Speaker 1: Pity. They were good times, but it didn't work.
Speaker 2: How wellgo the Moniker Jumbo? All through school I gave
Speaker 2: it a good crack, though I could have eaten for Australia.
Speaker 2: At one stage I was world class, world class glutton.
Speaker 2: Speaking of all things food, let's talk about sugar, and
Speaker 2: let's talk about whether or not sugar might be responsible
Speaker 2: for ADHD in kids?
Speaker 1: Where did that?
Speaker 2: Where did that research come from, or where did this
Speaker 2: idea come from?
Speaker 4: Oh, look, it's been around for a long time, probably
Speaker 4: since the seventies. Really, there were a few early studies
Speaker 4: in the seventies that suggested that if you gave kids sugar,
Speaker 4: they'd start climbing the walls and bouncing off the ceiling
Speaker 4: fans and things like that, and that sort of caught
Speaker 4: on because it matches what a lot of parents will
Speaker 4: tell you. I mean, most friends will say, oh, yeah,
Speaker 4: you can't. You can't give little Tristan, you know, a
Speaker 4: can of full strength coke or you're you know, you'll
Speaker 4: be cleaning up the place for the next month.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 4: And and that's certainly how most people perceive it. They say, right, sugar,
Speaker 4: give kids sugar. There they suddenly become hyper And so
Speaker 4: it wasn't too far to draw the bow from there
Speaker 4: and say, okay, well then, since hyperactivity and ADHD pretty
Speaker 4: much mean the same thing to a lot of people,
Speaker 4: obviously sugar causes ADHD. So that it's been around for
Speaker 4: a while. It's based more on myth than science, and
Speaker 4: when they eventually did get around to doing the science
Speaker 4: on this, and you can imagine it's not a high priority.
Speaker 4: You know, you're trying to kill cancer and you know
Speaker 4: all that sort of stuff. Finding out whether or not
Speaker 4: sugar makes kids crazy when everyone already knows the answer
Speaker 4: is not a high priority for funding. But when they
Speaker 4: actually I eventually did do the science, they found a
Speaker 4: couple of things. Is that when they did placebo controlled
Speaker 4: trials where you know, they were feeding kids things that
Speaker 4: were sugar free as you know, given sweetness and so on,
Speaker 4: rather than sugar, and cross matching those against kids who
Speaker 4: were being given sugar, there was no discernible difference in
Speaker 4: their behavior. The interesting thing was that if you told
Speaker 4: the parents of either group that their child their group
Speaker 4: was the one consuming the sugar, they would immediately spot
Speaker 4: the signs of hyperactivity if they thought their child had
Speaker 4: been given sugar. So we're entirely suggestible. And the kids
Speaker 4: themselves too, if you told them that they were given sugar,
Speaker 4: they would often act more hyperactive than if they weren't.
Speaker 4: So it was really more about saying, okay, people believe this.
Speaker 4: They deeply believe this, parents included, and they believe it
Speaker 4: to the extent that if you do studies on this
Speaker 4: and tell people the wrong piece of information, they believe
Speaker 4: it anyway and start seeing what they believe. So I
Speaker 4: guess it's more of a commentary on a sort of
Speaker 4: a placebo effect than anything else.
Speaker 2: That's so interesting because it is it's like I was
Speaker 2: going to say, it's like plus.
Speaker 1: Ebo adhd you know.
Speaker 2: And we've we've spoken before about plus ebos and no cibos,
Speaker 2: And we had a I don't know if I've ever
Speaker 2: told you this, we had a dud on called Professor
Speaker 2: Jeffrey Reddicker from Harvard Medical School.
Speaker 1: Who's a a.
Speaker 2: Like a PhD research and plus a doctor, plus a psychiatrist.
Speaker 2: And yeah, he talks about you know this stuff a lot.
Speaker 2: Obviously talks from a healer. Well not obviously because I
Speaker 2: haven't told you this, but he talks generally from a
Speaker 2: healing and a health point of view.
Speaker 1: But it is pretty.
Speaker 2: Amazing what manifests based on what we think think is
Speaker 2: happening rather than what is actually happening.
Speaker 4: Well, we're designed. Evolution has designed us to recognize patterns.
Speaker 4: Patterns keep us alive. Spotting a pattern in a series
Speaker 4: of unrelated events is how we predict the behavior of
Speaker 4: other humans. And the behavior of animals and danger all around,
Speaker 4: and so we are optimized for pattern recognition, and often
Speaker 4: we can be convinced that a pattern exists where there
Speaker 4: is no pattern. So, you know, the classic example of
Speaker 4: you know, you might spot you might notice that ice
Speaker 4: cream sales go up at exactly the same rate and
Speaker 4: at the same time as shark attacks, and you'll say, obviously,
Speaker 4: obviously ice cream causes shark attacks, or shark attack caused
Speaker 4: ice cream consumption. Clearly that's not the case, and that's
Speaker 4: one of the classic examples given for correlation does an
Speaker 4: equal causation. But what often can be the case is
Speaker 4: that something else is causing both, So you know, and
Speaker 4: in that case, it might be that when the temperature
Speaker 4: goes up, people buy more ice cream and people swim more,
Speaker 4: so there's more shark attacks and more ice cream consumption.
Speaker 4: But obviously the shark attacks are not causing the ice
Speaker 4: cream consumption, and vice versa. But we spot those patterns
Speaker 4: and we start to attribute menning. I mean, this is
Speaker 4: all you studied this for years, Greig. I mean, this
Speaker 4: is what psychology is. It's spotting patterns and making up
Speaker 4: bs stories about them.
Speaker 1: You can it's Okay, no, no, I can't.
Speaker 4: I don't want to offend Tiff. You know, she's easily offended, So.
Speaker 2: Speaking offensive, I had a lady who's been following me
Speaker 2: for ten years who sent me a message the other day,
Speaker 2: totally within her rights and full respect from me, and
Speaker 2: she said, you used the sea the sea word. And
Speaker 2: apparently I was on the pod with two ladies, so
Speaker 2: Tiff must have been one of them, and she said,
Speaker 2: I can't follow you anymore. Okay, okay, that's not the
Speaker 2: first time. You must to the other episodes, but it is.
Speaker 4: Here's an interesting factory about that word. So I spent
Speaker 4: I lived in Germany for a while as an exchangsion,
Speaker 4: and there's a word. The word for that in German
Speaker 4: is so rarely used that most women don't know it.
Speaker 4: So if you were to use it, you wouldn't offend
Speaker 4: most of the women around because they wouldn't know what
Speaker 4: you're talking about. So it's that extreme a rarity to
Speaker 4: use that word.
Speaker 2: Well, and I think also, and I'm not I'm not
Speaker 2: saying it's okay everyone, and I'm not justifying, and I
Speaker 2: don't use it very often, but it's like when I
Speaker 2: say that word I'm not talking about anyone's anatomy. It's
Speaker 2: just I'm talking about something else, you know. But it's like, well,
Speaker 2: I get it, I get it anyway.
Speaker 4: Well, it's like the word moist.
Speaker 3: You probably that's way more offensive.
Speaker 1: What is that?
Speaker 2: It's funny that word because there's a show called eight
Speaker 2: out of Ten Cats does count Down?
Speaker 1: Have you ever seen that show?
Speaker 4: Yes?
Speaker 2: And so the lady who is that I forget what's
Speaker 2: her actual proper title, But anyway, she does all the words.
Speaker 1: She's a wordsmith.
Speaker 4: She's the dictionary lady.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the dictionary lady.
Speaker 2: She she cannot cope with that word.
Speaker 4: A lot of people can't cope with that word.
Speaker 1: What's the trigger for you?
Speaker 4: Get into it?
Speaker 2: No?
Speaker 4: All right, I just looking at TIFF's face, I get
Speaker 4: the feeling she doesn't want to talk about it.
Speaker 2: Well, well without saying anything inappropriate. Is it just that
Speaker 2: it what to me? It doesn't do any It's like
Speaker 2: it could be a cake, a moist cake.
Speaker 3: I see. But I think it's even just the sound
Speaker 3: of the word is like the I don't know, I
Speaker 3: don't know, I don't know, but stop it.
Speaker 2: Well, but it rhymes with hoist and joist and like,
Speaker 2: it's not if I say I'm going to hoist a
Speaker 2: bag over my shoulder, you're not cringing. But if I
Speaker 2: say I'm going to hoist a moist bag, I know
Speaker 2: what is that?
Speaker 3: Why it does that?
Speaker 1: But it's just.
Speaker 4: There's probably some bre psychological explanation for it.
Speaker 1: Just like there is.
Speaker 2: I was talking, as I told you, I know we've
Speaker 2: gone off track, but fuck it is there a track.
Speaker 1: Let's be honest.
Speaker 4: We will get back to this because this has an
Speaker 4: interesting ending, but we will get back to it, all right.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I was doing a talk today, as I told you before,
Speaker 2: I won't say the organization, big organization, and that A
Speaker 2: lady was asking me some questions about, you know, just
Speaker 2: some psych stuff and I went, look and it you
Speaker 2: sprung to mind. Halfway through a corporate presentation, I thought
Speaker 2: to you, and I went, look, to be honest, psychology
Speaker 2: is one of the one of the crappier sciences. You know,
Speaker 2: It's not it's exactly it's not an exact science.
Speaker 4: In the sense that astrology is a science.
Speaker 2: Yeah, come on, come on, all right, So what does
Speaker 2: sugar cause ADHD? It appears not, so what is the
Speaker 2: insight to come out of this article.
Speaker 4: Well, it appears that it actually does, but not in
Speaker 4: the way that people think it does. So the reality
Speaker 4: is that if you give a genuinely ADHD person sugar,
Speaker 4: it's likely to calm them down, not make them more excited.
Speaker 4: So remembering what ADHD actually is, it's a state of
Speaker 4: the brain, a chemical state of the brain which is
Speaker 4: created by addiction or stress or both where you become
Speaker 4: dopamine tolerant. And what that means is that you need
Speaker 4: more dopamine to get the same result as a normal person.
Speaker 4: And so if someone is ADHD, it means that most
Speaker 4: of the time they do not have an enough dopamine
Speaker 4: to properly focus because their brain has become dopamine tolerant,
Speaker 4: so they need more of it than the average person,
Speaker 4: so most of the time they don't have enough. So
Speaker 4: the solution to that is ADHD drugs, which are stimulants
Speaker 4: in much the same way that cocaine is a stimulant
Speaker 4: or nicotine is a stimulant. You give that to a
Speaker 4: person with ADHD, it gives them a spike of dopamine.
Speaker 4: It allows them to focus in that suddenly they have
Speaker 4: enough dopamine to hit that threshold the rest of us
Speaker 4: have all the time, and then they can focus. And
Speaker 4: people with ADHD tell you that when they take those
Speaker 4: drugs it allows them to feel normal. Suddenly their brain
Speaker 4: isn't going all over the place at a million miles
Speaker 4: an hour. They can just focus on the things they
Speaker 4: need to focus on and get stuff done. And when
Speaker 4: they first accidentally notice that this is the way those
Speaker 4: drugs worked, they believed it to be a miracle because
Speaker 4: they gave it to kids who were ADHD because they
Speaker 4: were from an extremely stressful environment, ridden during the depression
Speaker 4: in the United States, and kids that couldn't focus and
Speaker 4: were a complete disaster in the classroom suddenly could get
Speaker 4: a lot done and did really, really well. So that's
Speaker 4: what the drugs do. But it's also what any addictive
Speaker 4: substance does. And sugar is an addictive substance that produces
Speaker 4: a dopamine spike. So giving a person who has ADHD
Speaker 4: something like sugar should actually help them focus more than
Speaker 4: if you didn't give it to them. So paradoxically, in
Speaker 4: the immediate thing giving them sugar actually helps them. The
Speaker 4: paradox there is that the thing that causes them to
Speaker 4: not be able to focus in the first place is
Speaker 4: getting too much stimulation, and so what you're actually doing
Speaker 4: is building in a long term hardening of that so
Speaker 4: that the person is actually worse when it comes to
Speaker 4: long term state of their brain in that that extra
Speaker 4: hit of dopamine stimulation makes them more dopamine tolerant for
Speaker 4: the next time, so it becomes harder and harder and
Speaker 4: harder for them to feel normal from a hit of dopamine.
Speaker 4: So they've observed this in the drugs for a long time,
Speaker 4: which is that you can't just give people ADHD medication
Speaker 4: for the rest of their lives. Eventually they become get
Speaker 4: to the point where they're tolerant of it, and the
Speaker 4: same thing would happen here. So what that means coming
Speaker 4: back to that does sugar give you ADHD story is yes,
Speaker 4: it does, but not immediately. Doesn't make a kid act hyperactively,
Speaker 4: which is why when the studies were done properly, there
Speaker 4: was no real obvious difference between the kids given the
Speaker 4: sugar and the ones not except when you told the
Speaker 4: parents that they'd been given sugar. So that's why you
Speaker 4: don't see it acutely in those studies, which is all
Speaker 4: they ever studied. But if you look at the mechanics
Speaker 4: of it. The reality is that someone on a diet,
Speaker 4: a high sugar diet, is more likely to have ADHD
Speaker 4: than someone who isn't, simply because they're continuously receiving stimulation
Speaker 4: from the sugar.
Speaker 2: So I know you're this is none of this is advice, anyone.
Speaker 2: None of this is medical advice. This is just two
Speaker 2: blokes and tiff chatting periodically. So when somebody is put
Speaker 2: on meds for ADHD and they build a tolerance, what
Speaker 2: typically happens. Do they just up the dose? Do they
Speaker 2: take them off it for a while, do they change
Speaker 2: the medication?
Speaker 4: Initially? They initially they up the dose and then eventually
Speaker 4: they stop giving it to them. So it's and this
Speaker 4: is the same with many stimula and not don't just
Speaker 4: forget about ADHD, but any anything where a person is
Speaker 4: being give a stimulating drug. So for example, a method
Speaker 4: owned programs where people are being given a stimulant to
Speaker 4: try and bring them off something like heroin. Eventually they
Speaker 4: become tolerant of it and it loses its effectiveness. And
Speaker 4: that's because the mechanism of addiction is that tolerance is
Speaker 4: the more you the more hits you get. The more
Speaker 4: you want, the more tolerant you become.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, you know.
Speaker 2: I have a story to telling them to be careful
Speaker 2: how I tell, But I think I created an addict.
Speaker 1: Not even being funny.
Speaker 2: So I've shared on this show that every now and then,
Speaker 2: probably once a month, I will have a a nicorette.
Speaker 2: A two milligram nicorette tastes exactly like chewing gum. Right,
Speaker 2: and a friend of mine, we were talking about it
Speaker 2: and I told them, you know, and They're like, I'm
Speaker 2: going to give it a go. I'm like, no, well
Speaker 2: I go unless you I go. Not recommending anyway, they
Speaker 2: did it, and they rang me to dude. He's like,
Speaker 2: oh my god, how good is this. He goes, I've
Speaker 2: got so like, I'm so focused, blah blah blah. Again
Speaker 2: everyone not a recommendation. And then I saw him about
Speaker 2: three weeks ago and he goes, I need to stop
Speaker 2: using nicorette now. I have maybe one two milligram a month,
Speaker 2: not even that now, and it just kind of it's
Speaker 2: like a new tropick. It just kind of cranks up
Speaker 2: my brain a bit. It's like having a strong coffee.
Speaker 2: Maybe he's having ten a day, ten a day. Yeah,
Speaker 2: he's like, if I take one, it doesn't do anything.
Speaker 2: I've got to take two or three at a time.
Speaker 2: And he does that three or four times a days.
Speaker 4: And that is exactly the tolerance that we're talking about.
Speaker 1: I'm like, you've got to stop. You've got to stop.
Speaker 2: I'm like, what, Like, I never told him to it,
Speaker 2: even when he said I'm going to give it a go,
Speaker 2: I said, I wouldn't recommend it. I don't introduce something
Speaker 2: you don't need. And anyway, yeah, I feel bad. But yeah,
Speaker 2: he's like, he used to take one and it was amazing,
Speaker 2: and now two or three just begins to do something.
Speaker 2: But then he's got to depending on his day, he's
Speaker 2: got to light up again.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Yeah. So that's a beautiful example of what we've been
Speaker 4: talking about, which is the brain adjusts to that, to
Speaker 4: that addictive substance infusion, which is a nicotine. It's the
Speaker 4: addictive part of cigarettes, and the brain adjusts to that
Speaker 4: by moving up a marker in the brain called delta
Speaker 4: foss B that says how much don't mean you need
Speaker 4: to get an effect. So your one a month is
Speaker 4: not having any effect at all because it takes you know,
Speaker 4: it surely it bumps it up, but then it decays
Speaker 4: down again by the time you know you have another one.
Speaker 4: But if you're having one a day and then that
Speaker 4: turns into two a day, or three a day, or
Speaker 4: four day or ten a day, then what you're doing
Speaker 4: is pushing that up higher and higher and higher and
Speaker 4: higher to the point where you are an addict, and
Speaker 4: stopping doing it is going to be extremely difficult because
Speaker 4: the cravings will be very intense. You probably don't experience
Speaker 4: serious cravings for your nicorette because it sounds more like
Speaker 4: it's gotten into the realm of habit rather than by
Speaker 4: a chemical craving. So you just think, oh, I wouldn't
Speaker 4: mind this because I'll feel better, And as long as
Speaker 4: it stays at that low level, it probably isn't having
Speaker 4: any real effect on the addictive mechanism. And it's the
Speaker 4: same thing goes here with sugar. So if we're looking
Speaker 4: at sugar, say the only sugar you know little Tristan
Speaker 4: got was once a year at his birthday party, then
Speaker 4: it's probably having no serious effect on him. But if
Speaker 4: the load he's getting at the birthday party is just
Speaker 4: twice as much as he gets every other day, of
Speaker 4: the year, which is very likely in Australia today because
Speaker 4: the average Australian is consuming about forty tea spoons of
Speaker 4: sugar a day. And you know, as I said to
Speaker 4: you before, most people when I say that say, well,
Speaker 4: you know TIFFs have in mind because I'm not, you know,
Speaker 4: consuming forty tea spoons of sugar. No wha, I don't
Speaker 4: even add sugar to my tea. But the reality is,
Speaker 4: have a bowl of nutri grain in the morning and
Speaker 4: a glass of orange juice. You're at twenty tea spoons
Speaker 4: before you push back from breakfast, let alone go anywhere
Speaker 4: near a mars bar or a coke. Yes, so if
Speaker 4: a kid is consuming forty teaspoons of sugar a day,
Speaker 4: then they are definitely on a pathway that would rewire
Speaker 4: their brain for addiction.
Speaker 2: I think when you save forty tea spoons, I think
Speaker 2: people they they don't understand how much sugar is in
Speaker 2: how many foods that you would not think had a
Speaker 2: lot of sugar, right, And so we're not talking about
Speaker 2: teaspoons of sugar, well the equivalent, but yeah, this is
Speaker 2: not necessarily added sugar. This is just high sugar foods
Speaker 2: that and what is interesting about this, and we've spoken
Speaker 2: about the lack of credibility and value of these ticks,
Speaker 2: these Foundation ticks that gets some kind of fucking nutritional
Speaker 2: seal of approval from some pretend organization that gets paid.
Speaker 2: Is that, like a lot of those you know, recommended
Speaker 2: and endorsed products are super high and sugar also.
Speaker 4: Yeah, absolutely, I mean there was for a very long
Speaker 4: time there. I mean a tiff. I don't remember this
Speaker 4: because it happened, you know, more than a decade ago
Speaker 4: when she was a little girl, But Craig, you might
Speaker 4: remember it, maybe just you might remember. The Heart Foundation
Speaker 4: used to give ticks to McDonald's. Yeah, so McDonald's was
Speaker 4: proudly displaying its Heart Foundation tick menu, and many of
Speaker 4: the things on that tick menu had really shockingly high
Speaker 4: levels of sugar in them. And when I asked the
Speaker 4: Heart Foundation how that could possibly be the case, the
Speaker 4: answer I got back was that sugar was not part
Speaker 4: of what they measured as part of their tick program.
Speaker 4: So the product could in fact be a bag of sugar.
Speaker 4: And because it had no other particularly fat, which was
Speaker 4: a thing they're so concerned with him. Because it had
Speaker 4: no fat in it, it deserved a Heart Foundation tick. Now,
Speaker 4: I don't think any manufacturer everywhere ever went to the
Speaker 4: point of getting a Heart Foundation tick on a bag
Speaker 4: of marshmallows. But they could have, because if you looked
Speaker 4: at the criteria they were using, sugar didn't matter, and
Speaker 4: there's very little else in a bag of marshmallows, so
Speaker 4: you could have got the tick.
Speaker 2: So ridiculous that there's not even in an organization like
Speaker 2: the Heart Foundation, you go, surely there's one employee that
Speaker 2: is at least smart enough to go, hey, fellas or
Speaker 2: ladies or whatever.
Speaker 1: It is, has anyone thought this through?
Speaker 4: But it wasn't obvious. So that's the interesting thing you
Speaker 4: had to ask. There was nowhere anywhere where they were
Speaker 4: publishing how they calculated whether or not a food received
Speaker 4: a tick. And the only reason I asked is I
Speaker 4: noticed that foods that just were mind blowing in him
Speaker 4: out of sugar. Like there was one food sold at
Speaker 4: the time called roll ups or something so like a
Speaker 4: compressed fruit fruit that you're supposed to put in your
Speaker 4: kid's lunch box and a little snack for them, and
Speaker 4: it's all fruits, so it must be good. Was seventy
Speaker 4: eight percent sugar had a heart foundation tick, so mum
Speaker 4: and the supermarket. I was looking at it and say, oh,
Speaker 4: what'll I give you a little jeremy for school lunch.
Speaker 4: Oh this thing here, it's all fruit and it's got
Speaker 4: a heart foundation tick must be okay. But you couldn't
Speaker 4: have given him that much sugar, even if you'd given
Speaker 4: him a diet of pure Mars bars.
Speaker 1: I love.
Speaker 2: I remember now that they're just diabetes in a wrapper
Speaker 2: and rotten teeth. I remember one of my clients one
Speaker 2: hundred years ago used to her go to was dried
Speaker 2: apricots and nuts, and I'm like, so and so I
Speaker 2: got her in my office and I looked up. I said, anyway,
Speaker 2: the bottom line is one hundred grams of this is memory,
Speaker 2: So I think it's, if not exact, very close. One
Speaker 2: hundred grams of fresh apricot forty calories, one hundred grams
Speaker 2: of dried apricot two hundred and forty calories, so six
Speaker 2: times the calories. And I would think six times give
Speaker 2: or take the sugar, because all it's been taken out
Speaker 2: is the water, so you just got left sugar.
Speaker 4: Yeah. Well, you look at those, you know, the little
Speaker 4: little boxes of sultanas that they give kids at school.
Speaker 4: So if you were to expand them back to their
Speaker 4: original grapiness, it's about half a kilo of grapes. Yes, Now,
Speaker 4: no kid is going to be able to sit down,
Speaker 4: you know, and knock over half a kilold grapes and
Speaker 4: then eat their little lunch. But those sultanas absolutely, and
Speaker 4: so it's a really really fast way to give a
Speaker 4: kid a lot of sugar.
Speaker 2: And you know, the other thing about sultanas that I
Speaker 2: remember reading, I don't know if it's still the same
Speaker 2: tip you could check, but on the side of a
Speaker 2: box the rest the ingredients said grapes and vegetable oil.
Speaker 2: There's soaked in oil. I'm right, So we're putting sugar
Speaker 2: in oil.
Speaker 4: Yep, sugar in seed oil, which is a whole level
Speaker 4: of danger. So even it wasn't for sugar, you wouldn't
Speaker 4: want to eat it.
Speaker 2: And it's like, not only is this shit terrible for you,
Speaker 2: people actually think it's a great choice. It's like, I'm
Speaker 2: a responsible parent, I'm giving my kids sultanas for lunch.
Speaker 4: But why do they think that because the Hart Foundation's
Speaker 4: got a tick on the thing.
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, yeah, it's like I just think one
Speaker 2: of the simplest things that mums and dads can do.
Speaker 2: And I'm not not hating on anyone or judging, but
Speaker 2: just learn how to read food labels, like learn how
Speaker 2: to understand like the ingredients. If the number one ingredient
Speaker 2: is sugar, then that's what most of it's made of.
Speaker 2: Like it goes in order of volume from first thing
Speaker 2: to last thing on the list. And you know, read
Speaker 2: the tiny box on the back with the breakdown of
Speaker 2: per hundred grams sodium and sugar and protein and all
Speaker 2: the other stuff, because you can save yourself a lot
Speaker 2: of heartache.
Speaker 1: But remember on the front, it's not information.
Speaker 2: The front is an ad. It's not information. It's just
Speaker 2: trying to get you to buy whatever it is they're
Speaker 2: trying to sell.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 4: Yeah, you see that a lot with olive oil products.
Speaker 4: So you'll particularly saying margarine. So you'll see the product
Speaker 4: described as olive oil margarine or something like that on
Speaker 4: the front of the you turn it over and read
Speaker 4: the label, you'll see whilst there is some olive oil
Speaker 4: in there for flavoring purposes, you know, most of the
Speaker 4: fat in that comes from something like sunflower oil or
Speaker 4: canola oil. Yeah, just like every other Margarine.
Speaker 2: We spoke on this show once a year ago. I
Speaker 2: took a photo and I'd posted it. I was trying
Speaker 2: to get an on your recommendation. I thank you very much.
Speaker 2: I actually got real mayo made with eggs, and that's
Speaker 2: probably precipitated that. But I was at the supermarket. I
Speaker 2: was trying to find mayo that's actually mayo, not made
Speaker 2: out of vegetable oil or seed.
Speaker 1: Oil like with that. Well bullshit, Yeah no I didn't.
Speaker 2: You told me. You told me what to get. And
Speaker 2: what's amazing is normal mays like four or five bucks
Speaker 2: a jar. The real shit's like twenty and I gladly
Speaker 2: pay the twenty, right, but yeah, and it said whole
Speaker 2: egg mayonnaise.
Speaker 1: I'm like, yeah, giddy up. And then I looked it's ninety.
Speaker 2: Seven percent not egg, that's right, not egg, Like ninety
Speaker 2: seven percent of what's in this jar is not egg.
Speaker 2: And when you look at the front, there's a picture
Speaker 2: of an egg and it's got whole egg mayonnaise. So
Speaker 2: you think, oh, the whole thing's made of egg.
Speaker 4: No, well it it probably shouldn't be called mayonnaise anyway,
Speaker 4: because mayonnaise, you know, is based on an actual traditional
Speaker 4: recipe which developed by the French, and it consists of
Speaker 4: olive oil and an egg. It's an emulsion. So calling
Speaker 4: anything that isn't made that way mayonnaise, I think is
Speaker 4: a bit out there. Anyway, whether it's whole egg or not,
Speaker 4: it should be labeled imitation mayonnaise.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, just jumping back quickly. I know we've got
Speaker 2: to let you go. But Tiff, do you remember you've
Speaker 2: had Mick Call on your show, right? I don't know
Speaker 2: if you remember this, but we were talking about, you
Speaker 2: know how you were talking, David about people who don't
Speaker 2: produce as much dopamine as other people and so they've
Speaker 2: got to, you know, take something to kind of reached
Speaker 2: their normal or what is. So we've had this guy
Speaker 2: in a bunch, his name's mickol and his in recovery
Speaker 2: addict alcoholic. He talks about this freely and openly, spent
Speaker 2: lots of time in the Big House, you know, very
Speaker 2: interesting life blah blah blah. And he told his story
Speaker 2: on this show, and I'm sure yours, Tiff, where when
Speaker 2: he started drinking at twelve, right, and the first thing
Speaker 2: he drank was port and he said it was fucking disgusting.
Speaker 2: But the moment that I started that he started to
Speaker 2: get drunk, he's like, oh my god, life is good.
Speaker 2: And it's like, I think he said something like, but
Speaker 2: the first time in my life, I felt normal, Like
Speaker 2: the anxiety went away, all of these symptoms in inverted
Speaker 2: commas went away. And then he basically started drinking whenever
Speaker 2: and wherever he could at twelve, not because he enjoyed
Speaker 2: the drinking, but because he enjoyed how it made him feel,
Speaker 2: and it was like for him an escape, you know.
Speaker 4: So most addicts will give you that answer if you
Speaker 4: ask them. Most addicts. If you say to an addict,
Speaker 4: you know, why do you keep doing this when it
Speaker 4: is causing you harm? And I'm talking about anything, whether
Speaker 4: it's smoking or alcohol or opioids, Yeah, And they will say,
Speaker 4: I don't want to keep doing it, but I feel
Speaker 4: normal when I do do it. You ask any smoker,
Speaker 4: why do you smoke? You know it's doing terrible things,
Speaker 4: as photos all over the box telling you all awful
Speaker 4: things it's doing to you. Why do you smoke? And
Speaker 4: they will say, I don't want to smoke, and I
Speaker 4: know all that stuff, but the only way I can
Speaker 4: feel normal is when I'm smoking, And that's exactly the
Speaker 4: effect we're talking about, where where in order to get
Speaker 4: the required dopamine hit, you have to be doing or
Speaker 4: going through an addictive behavior. So it's about feeling normal,
Speaker 4: and that's really really hard to stop, really really hard
Speaker 4: to ask someone to stop doing the one thing that
Speaker 4: makes them feel normal. Now, alcohol is the most insidious
Speaker 4: of them all, and we'll talk about it some other time,
Speaker 4: because it actually has a mechanism of action that impairs
Speaker 4: your ability to feel normal for life. So even when
Speaker 4: you stop drinking, which is something that most other drugs
Speaker 4: don't do. But let's get into that some other time.
Speaker 4: There was a bit of detail in it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, cool mate, We appreciate you will say goodbye fare
Speaker 2: but as always fascinating and tif thank god you had
Speaker 2: some calories before we started.
Speaker 3: I know you're welcome.