1 00:00:03,430 --> 00:00:07,570 Sean Aylmer: Welcome to the Fear and Greed daily interview, I'm Sean Aylmer. Customers 2 00:00:07,570 --> 00:00:10,640 Sean Aylmer: looking for a loan in Australia are spoiled for choice. 3 00:00:10,640 --> 00:00:13,320 Sean Aylmer: Competition between the big banks for home loans has been 4 00:00:13,320 --> 00:00:17,500 Sean Aylmer: quite incredible, but away from mortgages, the personal lending space 5 00:00:17,700 --> 00:00:19,470 Sean Aylmer: has been turned on its head in the last few 6 00:00:19,470 --> 00:00:22,360 Sean Aylmer: years by a new breed of the FinTech's. Companies like 7 00:00:22,600 --> 00:00:26,160 Sean Aylmer: ASX listed Plenti are using technology to provide loans for 8 00:00:26,160 --> 00:00:29,600 Sean Aylmer: everything from solar panels to buying an electric vehicle. Daniel 9 00:00:29,600 --> 00:00:33,500 Sean Aylmer: Foggo is the co- founder and CEO of Plenti Australia's 10 00:00:33,500 --> 00:00:36,590 Sean Aylmer: largest consumer FinTech lender. Daniel, welcome to Fear and Greed. 11 00:00:37,130 --> 00:00:38,350 Daniel Foggo: Morning. Sean, thank you for having me. 12 00:00:38,700 --> 00:00:41,920 Sean Aylmer: So just give me a thumbnail sketch of the background of Plenti, 13 00:00:42,570 --> 00:00:43,589 Sean Aylmer: why you started it? 14 00:00:44,140 --> 00:00:46,790 Daniel Foggo: I actually started the business with my two co- founders 15 00:00:47,000 --> 00:00:48,690 Daniel Foggo: Ben and Glenn and we came at it from different 16 00:00:48,690 --> 00:00:53,550 Daniel Foggo: angles. My background was in finance and investment banking and 17 00:00:53,550 --> 00:00:56,450 Daniel Foggo: I looked at consumer finance and I saw wide spreads 18 00:00:56,450 --> 00:00:59,510 Daniel Foggo: and I saw finance reacting as a friction in our 19 00:00:59,510 --> 00:01:02,660 Daniel Foggo: economy as opposed to a lubricant. So noticed very wide 20 00:01:02,660 --> 00:01:05,440 Daniel Foggo: spreads and I saw an opportunity to sort of turn 21 00:01:05,440 --> 00:01:08,270 Daniel Foggo: that on its head. I think Ben and Glenn with 22 00:01:08,270 --> 00:01:11,970 Daniel Foggo: their technology backgrounds came from a different perspective. They saw 23 00:01:12,050 --> 00:01:16,150 Daniel Foggo: at least in an Australian context, relatively poor customer experiences, 24 00:01:16,150 --> 00:01:19,790 Daniel Foggo: slow credit decision times. And they had a view that 25 00:01:19,790 --> 00:01:22,170 Daniel Foggo: we could build a business with technology at its core 26 00:01:22,850 --> 00:01:27,020 Daniel Foggo: and turn that around and provide better experiences to our customers. So 27 00:01:27,020 --> 00:01:29,029 Daniel Foggo: our different perspectives, I think, meshed together very well. 28 00:01:29,030 --> 00:01:34,180 Sean Aylmer: Okay. So very much a disruptor to the traditional banking services 29 00:01:34,569 --> 00:01:38,410 Sean Aylmer: in an area which perhaps hadn't seen as much competition 30 00:01:38,630 --> 00:01:41,110 Sean Aylmer: and that's personal loans as opposed to mortgage loans. Where 31 00:01:41,110 --> 00:01:43,190 Sean Aylmer: of course there's been plenty of competitions since Aussie home 32 00:01:43,190 --> 00:01:46,340 Sean Aylmer: loans quite a few decades ago, but your area, it 33 00:01:46,340 --> 00:01:47,690 Sean Aylmer: was kind of ripe for disruption. 34 00:01:48,340 --> 00:01:52,460 Daniel Foggo: That's right. When we first launched back in 2014, the 35 00:01:52,460 --> 00:01:55,940 Daniel Foggo: spread, the difference between borrowing rates and deposit rates at 36 00:01:55,940 --> 00:02:01,320 Daniel Foggo: our major banks was about 15% or 16%. So very wide margins 37 00:02:01,320 --> 00:02:03,460 Daniel Foggo: on an international context, wide enough to sort of drive 38 00:02:03,460 --> 00:02:04,391 Daniel Foggo: a bus through, as we used to say. 39 00:02:04,391 --> 00:02:10,609 Sean Aylmer: Yeah. Okay. So what is your basic strategy? What's your competitive advantage? What 40 00:02:10,610 --> 00:02:11,410 Sean Aylmer: do you compete on? 41 00:02:11,900 --> 00:02:15,639 Daniel Foggo: Look fundamentally our competitive advantage is our technology. We've built our own 42 00:02:16,030 --> 00:02:19,440 Daniel Foggo: technology platform. That's actually very unique in consumer finance in 43 00:02:19,440 --> 00:02:23,440 Daniel Foggo: Australia. We have about 40 people working in product and technology. 44 00:02:24,020 --> 00:02:27,500 Daniel Foggo: It's through that technology that we can deliver better experiences to our 45 00:02:27,500 --> 00:02:31,200 Daniel Foggo: customers and our partners, and also operate very efficiently. So 46 00:02:31,450 --> 00:02:34,080 Daniel Foggo: that's our key point of difference is the technology we've built. 47 00:02:34,500 --> 00:02:38,239 Sean Aylmer: Okay. So what are most of your customers using personal loans for, 48 00:02:38,240 --> 00:02:42,020 Sean Aylmer: are they refinancing debt? You mentioned EVs and you mentioned 49 00:02:42,020 --> 00:02:44,639 Sean Aylmer: solar as well. What about holidays, those sorts of things? 50 00:02:44,639 --> 00:02:45,790 Sean Aylmer: What are they using their money for? 51 00:02:46,480 --> 00:02:49,019 Daniel Foggo: We describe our purpose as a business is to help bring our 52 00:02:49,020 --> 00:02:52,760 Daniel Foggo: customers big ideas to life. So whether that's them wanting 53 00:02:52,760 --> 00:02:55,260 Daniel Foggo: to buy a car, whether it's wanting to transition to an EV 54 00:02:55,790 --> 00:03:00,340 Daniel Foggo: or invest in equipment to help our environment, through providing finance 55 00:03:00,340 --> 00:03:02,600 Daniel Foggo: we can help bring their big ideas to life. Our 56 00:03:02,600 --> 00:03:05,280 Daniel Foggo: origins were in personal loans that's where we first started. 57 00:03:05,550 --> 00:03:09,109 Daniel Foggo: So those are unsecured loans that will service everything from 58 00:03:09,110 --> 00:03:12,940 Daniel Foggo: home improvement to debt consolidation. But our largest vertical now 59 00:03:12,940 --> 00:03:16,899 Daniel Foggo: is in the automotive finance. It's a very large market, over $ 35 billion 60 00:03:17,260 --> 00:03:21,590 Daniel Foggo: of finance provided every year. We fund a large number 61 00:03:21,590 --> 00:03:24,700 Daniel Foggo: of customers every month, either buying new vehicles or secondhand 62 00:03:24,700 --> 00:03:27,770 Daniel Foggo: vehicles and a really exciting vertical that we're in is 63 00:03:27,980 --> 00:03:30,950 Daniel Foggo: renewable energy finance, where we are funding loans for solar 64 00:03:30,950 --> 00:03:33,859 Daniel Foggo: panels and home batteries. And in fact, we believe we're 65 00:03:33,860 --> 00:03:36,910 Daniel Foggo: the largest funder of home batteries in Australia. So the 66 00:03:36,910 --> 00:03:39,510 Daniel Foggo: simple answer to your question is we fund loans for a very 67 00:03:39,510 --> 00:03:40,250 Daniel Foggo: broad range of purposes. 68 00:03:41,210 --> 00:03:43,260 Sean Aylmer: Okay. So let's go into those a little bit more. 69 00:03:43,260 --> 00:03:46,110 Sean Aylmer: The solar panels and batteries, what's the size of a 70 00:03:46,110 --> 00:03:46,930 Sean Aylmer: typical loan? 71 00:03:47,380 --> 00:03:50,890 Daniel Foggo: They're quite modest loans actually typically around or on average 72 00:03:50,890 --> 00:03:54,620 Daniel Foggo: about $ 9, 000, but that masks some variance. If you're 73 00:03:54,620 --> 00:03:57,470 Daniel Foggo: just putting a solar panel on your roof, you're typically 74 00:03:57,470 --> 00:04:00,450 Daniel Foggo: paying $ 5,000 or $6, 000. If you're putting solar panels and a 75 00:04:00,780 --> 00:04:03,331 Daniel Foggo: home battery in, you're typically paying more like $ 15, 000. 76 00:04:03,331 --> 00:04:04,081 Sean Aylmer: Okay. 77 00:04:04,490 --> 00:04:08,310 Daniel Foggo: From our perspective, that's great business. These are typically... Or 78 00:04:08,310 --> 00:04:10,810 Daniel Foggo: from a credit perspective, these are typically homeowners. They're typically 79 00:04:10,810 --> 00:04:14,160 Daniel Foggo: saving money. People who care for the environment tend to repay 80 00:04:14,160 --> 00:04:14,730 Daniel Foggo: their loans. 81 00:04:15,210 --> 00:04:18,339 Sean Aylmer: Right, that's interesting. You've also got partnerships with AGL and 82 00:04:18,339 --> 00:04:23,830 Sean Aylmer: Energy Australia to help customers finance, solar. That's clearly something 83 00:04:23,830 --> 00:04:25,589 Sean Aylmer: that they're pushing, but a good way to market for 84 00:04:25,589 --> 00:04:28,410 Sean Aylmer: you is to actually work with some of the providers 85 00:04:28,410 --> 00:04:29,409 Sean Aylmer: to provide the finance. 86 00:04:29,410 --> 00:04:33,330 Daniel Foggo: That's right, actually across our whole business, around 80% of 87 00:04:33,330 --> 00:04:36,900 Daniel Foggo: our loans come through working with different partners, be they 88 00:04:37,580 --> 00:04:40,929 Daniel Foggo: energy retailers, be they loan brokers, or other types of 89 00:04:40,930 --> 00:04:44,830 Daniel Foggo: businesses, so that's an important aspect of our business. We 90 00:04:44,830 --> 00:04:48,860 Daniel Foggo: have very deliberately started to partner with large energy retailers 91 00:04:48,870 --> 00:04:52,150 Daniel Foggo: as a way for us to access customers, to provide 92 00:04:52,150 --> 00:04:55,430 Daniel Foggo: our finance. And actually we see quite an exciting future 93 00:04:55,430 --> 00:04:59,330 Daniel Foggo: here in working with energy retailers where consumers will be 94 00:04:59,330 --> 00:05:02,360 Daniel Foggo: able to buy what we describe as a bundled energy 95 00:05:02,360 --> 00:05:06,339 Daniel Foggo: solution. So rather than pay the amount upfront, install solar 96 00:05:06,339 --> 00:05:10,739 Daniel Foggo: and battery systems, rather they can integrate our finance to 97 00:05:10,740 --> 00:05:13,279 Daniel Foggo: cover the cost of that equipment with their monthly energy 98 00:05:13,279 --> 00:05:16,560 Daniel Foggo: bill. So with one monthly payment to their energy retailer, 99 00:05:16,860 --> 00:05:19,550 Daniel Foggo: they can have a fully fledged, renewable energy system and 100 00:05:19,550 --> 00:05:23,330 Daniel Foggo: reduce their energy consumption bills. And if you think about 101 00:05:23,330 --> 00:05:26,310 Daniel Foggo: a future where electric vehicles are quite commonly owned by 102 00:05:26,310 --> 00:05:29,830 Daniel Foggo: households, actually the installation of solar and batteries makes more 103 00:05:29,830 --> 00:05:33,080 Daniel Foggo: sense. And again, it makes more sense to think about 104 00:05:33,080 --> 00:05:35,560 Daniel Foggo: the consumption of your energy as a household on a 105 00:05:35,560 --> 00:05:38,360 Daniel Foggo: more holistic basis. So we see ourselves as having quite 106 00:05:38,360 --> 00:05:40,760 Daniel Foggo: an important role to play in bringing all of that 107 00:05:40,839 --> 00:05:41,720 Daniel Foggo: together for the consumer. 108 00:05:42,640 --> 00:05:45,469 Sean Aylmer: Okay. You mentioned electric vehicles then, what role are you 109 00:05:45,470 --> 00:05:48,640 Sean Aylmer: playing around electric vehicles? The take up rate in Australia 110 00:05:48,640 --> 00:05:52,080 Sean Aylmer: has been quite low so far, but do you presume 111 00:05:52,310 --> 00:05:54,460 Sean Aylmer: that will pick up markedly in the next decade or so? 112 00:05:55,350 --> 00:05:57,460 Daniel Foggo: Absolutely. It has been low and I think a large 113 00:05:57,460 --> 00:06:01,570 Daniel Foggo: part of that has actually been constrained supply of electric vehicles. The 114 00:06:01,570 --> 00:06:04,779 Daniel Foggo: number of vehicles or EVs that are available in Australia 115 00:06:04,779 --> 00:06:08,430 Daniel Foggo: is somewhat lower than what's available in overseas markets, but 116 00:06:08,430 --> 00:06:11,930 Daniel Foggo: it is certainly an exciting and growing segment. We really 117 00:06:11,930 --> 00:06:16,200 Daniel Foggo: want to play an important role in helping Australians transition 118 00:06:16,200 --> 00:06:19,670 Daniel Foggo: to EV ownership. What we introduced at the back end 119 00:06:19,670 --> 00:06:22,360 Daniel Foggo: of last year to help us in that regard is 120 00:06:22,360 --> 00:06:25,670 Daniel Foggo: an EV specific loan. So first and foremost, that is a 121 00:06:25,670 --> 00:06:28,950 Daniel Foggo: loan that has a discounted rate. We can provide a 122 00:06:28,950 --> 00:06:31,950 Daniel Foggo: discounted rate to the customer because for two reasons really. 123 00:06:32,279 --> 00:06:35,640 Daniel Foggo: One we've got relatively low cost funding ourselves to finance 124 00:06:35,640 --> 00:06:39,270 Daniel Foggo: EVs and part that's through government funding support through the 125 00:06:39,270 --> 00:06:43,239 Daniel Foggo: clean energy finance corporation, but also from a credit perspective, 126 00:06:43,320 --> 00:06:46,669 Daniel Foggo: EV customers tend to perform much better. So first and 127 00:06:46,670 --> 00:06:49,409 Daniel Foggo: foremost, a discount loan rate, but also really helpful features 128 00:06:49,410 --> 00:06:51,839 Daniel Foggo: such as an ability to top up your loan, to 129 00:06:51,839 --> 00:06:56,010 Daniel Foggo: pay for charging equipment or software upgrades. We've also introduced 130 00:06:56,010 --> 00:06:59,950 Daniel Foggo: or launched an agreement with the very significant EV manufacturer where 131 00:06:59,950 --> 00:07:04,300 Daniel Foggo: we provide their customers with finance. So bringing all of that 132 00:07:04,300 --> 00:07:06,680 Daniel Foggo: together, we think we're very well placed to build really 133 00:07:06,680 --> 00:07:09,910 Daniel Foggo: strong market share in the EV market. And we think 134 00:07:09,910 --> 00:07:12,980 Daniel Foggo: that market set for strong growth in itself. So we 135 00:07:12,980 --> 00:07:16,740 Daniel Foggo: do expect the next 12 or 24 months, the funding of EVs will 136 00:07:16,740 --> 00:07:18,440 Daniel Foggo: become a very material part of our business. 137 00:07:18,760 --> 00:07:20,690 Sean Aylmer: Stay with me Daniel, will be back in a minute. 138 00:07:25,550 --> 00:07:28,330 Sean Aylmer: My guest this morning is Daniel Foggo co- founder and 139 00:07:28,330 --> 00:07:32,000 Sean Aylmer: CEO of Plenti. Okay, so you've passed a hundred million 140 00:07:32,000 --> 00:07:35,030 Sean Aylmer: dollars a month in loan origination, so you must be 141 00:07:35,030 --> 00:07:38,160 Sean Aylmer: doing something right there Daniel. Where are those customers coming 142 00:07:38,160 --> 00:07:40,440 Sean Aylmer: from? Are you taking them from the big banks mostly? 143 00:07:41,390 --> 00:07:44,340 Daniel Foggo: The answer is yes. We are not funding new types 144 00:07:44,340 --> 00:07:47,960 Daniel Foggo: of people. We're funding the people that historically would've been funded by banks 145 00:07:47,960 --> 00:07:51,360 Daniel Foggo: or the likes of VW or Toyota. The majority of 146 00:07:51,360 --> 00:07:54,710 Daniel Foggo: our customers own their own home. And often I'm asked 147 00:07:54,760 --> 00:07:57,540 Daniel Foggo: why would people not add finance to their mortgage, if 148 00:07:57,540 --> 00:07:59,800 Daniel Foggo: they do own their own home? We offer really good 149 00:07:59,800 --> 00:08:03,060 Daniel Foggo: value, fast and convenient finance. So it often makes more 150 00:08:03,060 --> 00:08:05,810 Daniel Foggo: sense to take out a loan with us and repay 151 00:08:05,810 --> 00:08:07,560 Daniel Foggo: it over a shorter period of time and actually save 152 00:08:07,560 --> 00:08:11,010 Daniel Foggo: yourself money versus putting it on your mortgage. The average 153 00:08:11,010 --> 00:08:13,920 Daniel Foggo: age of our borrowers is about 41, and that often 154 00:08:13,920 --> 00:08:16,880 Daniel Foggo: surprises a lot of people for a FinTech. They think 155 00:08:16,880 --> 00:08:19,480 Daniel Foggo: that we'd be funding a lot of relatively young customers 156 00:08:19,480 --> 00:08:22,990 Daniel Foggo: but we're actually underweight, customers under the age of 30. 157 00:08:23,510 --> 00:08:27,330 Daniel Foggo: And I think most importantly, our customers are people who 158 00:08:27,450 --> 00:08:30,710 Daniel Foggo: have a good credit history. So our average customer credit 159 00:08:30,710 --> 00:08:34,540 Daniel Foggo: score, if you're familiar with that is over 820, which compares 160 00:08:34,610 --> 00:08:37,750 Daniel Foggo: very favorably to the broader market. So the average Plenti 161 00:08:37,750 --> 00:08:41,520 Daniel Foggo: customer covers a broad range of people, but with a 162 00:08:41,520 --> 00:08:42,600 Daniel Foggo: focus on credit worthy people. 163 00:08:42,600 --> 00:08:45,010 Sean Aylmer: And how much do you cost? Are you much more 164 00:08:45,010 --> 00:08:48,710 Sean Aylmer: expensive than the big banks? Because I totally get the 165 00:08:48,710 --> 00:08:51,530 Sean Aylmer: whole thing about adding finance to your mortgage, the paperwork 166 00:08:51,610 --> 00:08:56,630 Sean Aylmer: is prohibitive and intimidating, shall I say? But at the 167 00:08:56,630 --> 00:08:59,720 Sean Aylmer: same time, that is a cheaper loan than presumably what 168 00:08:59,720 --> 00:09:00,440 Sean Aylmer: Plenti's offering. 169 00:09:00,830 --> 00:09:04,370 Daniel Foggo: Actually we offer very competitive financing. And so you can 170 00:09:04,370 --> 00:09:07,400 Daniel Foggo: get an automotive loan with us through a manufacturer relationship 171 00:09:07,400 --> 00:09:10,560 Daniel Foggo: at the moment from 3%. And you can have- 172 00:09:10,610 --> 00:09:14,400 Sean Aylmer: Wow, that's less than a half. I mean, I've been 173 00:09:14,400 --> 00:09:19,710 Sean Aylmer: through this process with one of my kids recently and they were getting 6. 99% with the loan that was 174 00:09:19,710 --> 00:09:20,490 Sean Aylmer: being offered to him. 175 00:09:20,890 --> 00:09:25,370 Daniel Foggo: Yes. And so we can offer very competitive finance. And I 176 00:09:25,370 --> 00:09:28,470 Daniel Foggo: think when we contrast ourselves to banks and really you 177 00:09:28,470 --> 00:09:30,330 Daniel Foggo: have to look at it on a product by product basis. I 178 00:09:30,330 --> 00:09:34,020 Daniel Foggo: think our average buyer rate across personal loans does contrast 179 00:09:34,020 --> 00:09:38,280 Daniel Foggo: favourably to banks and similarly our automotive finance is very competitive. 180 00:09:38,679 --> 00:09:41,260 Daniel Foggo: So we actually think the people who come to us 181 00:09:41,260 --> 00:09:42,721 Daniel Foggo: are often people who are looking for a better deal. 182 00:09:42,721 --> 00:09:46,980 Sean Aylmer: Okay. I just want to mention the peer to peer lending first. 183 00:09:46,980 --> 00:09:48,501 Sean Aylmer: Tell me about that. 184 00:09:48,501 --> 00:09:51,820 Daniel Foggo: That really goes back to the origins of our business. We are now 185 00:09:51,870 --> 00:09:55,920 Daniel Foggo: funded in a very diversified way. We have warehouse facilities of two of 186 00:09:55,960 --> 00:09:59,530 Daniel Foggo: the major four banks in Australia. We've completed asset back 187 00:09:59,530 --> 00:10:03,270 Daniel Foggo: securities transactions or one, and about to launch a second. 188 00:10:03,760 --> 00:10:06,929 Daniel Foggo: But the origins of our businesses is absolutely in marketplace 189 00:10:06,929 --> 00:10:10,720 Daniel Foggo: or PPE lending. We've attracted over 20,000 people who have wanted 190 00:10:11,520 --> 00:10:16,209 Daniel Foggo: a fixed income return through investing in consumer finance. We 191 00:10:16,210 --> 00:10:19,490 Daniel Foggo: run what we call it, our marketplace there, where it 192 00:10:19,580 --> 00:10:22,010 Daniel Foggo: operates a bit like a stock market. People can sign 193 00:10:22,010 --> 00:10:24,340 Daniel Foggo: up and invest from as little as $ 10 and they can 194 00:10:24,340 --> 00:10:27,880 Daniel Foggo: get exposure to the underlying customers that we are funding. We don't 195 00:10:28,070 --> 00:10:30,400 Daniel Foggo: set the rates rather it's the supply and demand of 196 00:10:30,400 --> 00:10:34,429 Daniel Foggo: funds that determines the rates. And it's quite a simple process 197 00:10:34,429 --> 00:10:37,990 Daniel Foggo: from an investor perspective. I think, an important piece to 198 00:10:37,990 --> 00:10:41,059 Daniel Foggo: add here is we have introduced quite an innovative structure 199 00:10:41,059 --> 00:10:42,890 Daniel Foggo: where there is a first loss piece if you like. 200 00:10:42,890 --> 00:10:45,610 Daniel Foggo: We call it our provision fund, which is a pool 201 00:10:45,610 --> 00:10:48,370 Daniel Foggo: of money that is there to help protect investors in the 202 00:10:48,370 --> 00:10:52,130 Daniel Foggo: event of a borrower, not repaying their loan. And pleasingly 203 00:10:52,130 --> 00:10:55,780 Daniel Foggo: over the eight years or so of our operations all 204 00:10:55,780 --> 00:10:58,840 Daniel Foggo: of our investors have received all amounts of principal and interest 205 00:10:58,840 --> 00:11:01,340 Daniel Foggo: that are due to them because of that structure. So it 206 00:11:01,340 --> 00:11:03,730 Daniel Foggo: is quite innovative and it's an important part of our 207 00:11:03,730 --> 00:11:05,002 Daniel Foggo: funding still, the peer to peer lending. 208 00:11:05,002 --> 00:11:09,200 Sean Aylmer: So the question for me about Plenti is you've operated and done 209 00:11:09,200 --> 00:11:12,929 Sean Aylmer: really well in a falling interest rate environment. Is it 210 00:11:12,929 --> 00:11:15,520 Sean Aylmer: the same in a rising interest rate environment? Which of 211 00:11:15,520 --> 00:11:17,850 Sean Aylmer: course is what we're heading into for the next few years? 212 00:11:18,550 --> 00:11:22,630 Daniel Foggo: Yes. We don't really see the interest rate environment having too material impact on 213 00:11:22,630 --> 00:11:27,559 Daniel Foggo: our business. If we think about our existing loan book, which is over a billion dollars, 214 00:11:27,809 --> 00:11:30,710 Daniel Foggo: we actually hedge that at the end of every month. So 215 00:11:30,800 --> 00:11:33,580 Daniel Foggo: our margins are locked in. So when we think about 216 00:11:33,580 --> 00:11:36,120 Daniel Foggo: interest rates moving, it's really about what happens on new 217 00:11:36,120 --> 00:11:39,820 Daniel Foggo: originations and just like any other business, if our input 218 00:11:39,820 --> 00:11:42,460 Daniel Foggo: costs change, we obviously expect to be able to pass 219 00:11:42,630 --> 00:11:45,530 Daniel Foggo: much of that change on to our customers. So pleasingly, 220 00:11:45,530 --> 00:11:49,050 Daniel Foggo: we're seeing some positive dynamics, as some funding costs go up, 221 00:11:49,220 --> 00:11:51,429 Daniel Foggo: interest rates are going up for customers as well. Now, 222 00:11:51,429 --> 00:11:53,679 Daniel Foggo: clearly there can be an impact on customers. What happens 223 00:11:53,679 --> 00:11:56,230 Daniel Foggo: in a higher interest rate environment? Do people have the 224 00:11:56,230 --> 00:12:00,590 Daniel Foggo: same propensity to take out finance? Do they repay more rapidly? 225 00:12:00,900 --> 00:12:03,120 Daniel Foggo: I don't think with the sort of rates movements that 226 00:12:03,120 --> 00:12:05,050 Daniel Foggo: we are talking about or looking at in our yield 227 00:12:05,050 --> 00:12:07,590 Daniel Foggo: curve at the moment, I don't think we should expect 228 00:12:07,590 --> 00:12:11,450 Daniel Foggo: to see any material changes on either of those two metrics. 229 00:12:11,809 --> 00:12:14,910 Daniel Foggo: In fact, it's when interest rates go down, that people will 230 00:12:14,910 --> 00:12:18,329 Daniel Foggo: look to refinance their loans rather than rates are going up. 231 00:12:18,850 --> 00:12:20,840 Sean Aylmer: Okay. Any plans to move into home lending? 232 00:12:21,840 --> 00:12:24,189 Daniel Foggo: I think that's the question you always get asked in Australia. 233 00:12:24,420 --> 00:12:24,510 Sean Aylmer: Yeah. 234 00:12:24,750 --> 00:12:27,600 Daniel Foggo: I think the home lending market is obviously competitive. It's 235 00:12:27,600 --> 00:12:31,140 Daniel Foggo: already been disrupted. I think our key competitive advantage is 236 00:12:31,140 --> 00:12:35,500 Daniel Foggo: our technology, is our ability to very efficiently process lots 237 00:12:35,500 --> 00:12:38,250 Daniel Foggo: of loans and provide a very good customer experience. And 238 00:12:38,250 --> 00:12:41,570 Daniel Foggo: I query whether that lends itself so much to us 239 00:12:41,570 --> 00:12:44,240 Daniel Foggo: moving into the mortgage market. What I would say is 240 00:12:44,530 --> 00:12:47,300 Daniel Foggo: we are growing our originations that over a hundred percent 241 00:12:47,300 --> 00:12:50,020 Daniel Foggo: year on year at the moment, we're in very large 242 00:12:50,020 --> 00:12:54,340 Daniel Foggo: markets, the overall markets we're in represent about $ 150 billion 243 00:12:54,880 --> 00:12:57,300 Daniel Foggo: of loans outstanding at the moment. And with a billion dollar 244 00:12:57,300 --> 00:13:00,309 Daniel Foggo: loan book, we've got a long growth runway in front 245 00:13:00,309 --> 00:13:02,010 Daniel Foggo: of us, so we don't feel a need to move 246 00:13:02,010 --> 00:13:04,700 Daniel Foggo: into a new vertical. But I think by virtue of 247 00:13:04,700 --> 00:13:06,970 Daniel Foggo: the fact, when you employ a lot of people who 248 00:13:07,360 --> 00:13:10,980 Daniel Foggo: love working on innovative things who are entrepreneurial by nature, 249 00:13:11,260 --> 00:13:14,559 Daniel Foggo: you can't help explore new opportunities and new verticals to 250 00:13:14,559 --> 00:13:19,150 Daniel Foggo: move into. So I do anticipate we'll continue to broaden 251 00:13:19,150 --> 00:13:21,900 Daniel Foggo: out our offering, but query whether that's mortgages or something 252 00:13:22,070 --> 00:13:23,349 Daniel Foggo: else that we will expand into. 253 00:13:23,679 --> 00:13:25,790 Sean Aylmer: That sounds like a never say never answer Daniel. 254 00:13:28,120 --> 00:13:29,480 Daniel Foggo: That's probably a good description of it, yes. 255 00:13:30,300 --> 00:13:32,270 Sean Aylmer: Fair enough. Thank you for talking to Fear and Greed. 256 00:13:32,710 --> 00:13:33,040 Daniel Foggo: Thank you very much for taking the time. Appreciate it. 257 00:13:35,130 --> 00:13:38,320 Sean Aylmer: That was Daniel Foggo co- founder and CEO of Plenti. 258 00:13:38,660 --> 00:13:41,380 Sean Aylmer: This is a Fear and Greed daily interview. Join me every morning 259 00:13:41,380 --> 00:13:43,280 Sean Aylmer: for the full Fear and Greed podcast with all the 260 00:13:43,280 --> 00:13:46,380 Sean Aylmer: business news you need to know. I'm Sean Aylmer, enjoy 261 00:13:46,380 --> 00:13:46,530 Sean Aylmer: your day.