1 00:00:03,290 --> 00:00:06,500 Adam Lang: Welcome to the Fear and Greed Daily Interview. I'm Adam Lang. 2 00:00:06,890 --> 00:00:10,039 Adam Lang: Everywhere you look in Australia at the moment, businesses are 3 00:00:10,039 --> 00:00:14,450 Adam Lang: coping differently. Some states like Western Australia and Tasmania have 4 00:00:14,450 --> 00:00:19,040 Adam Lang: made it through the recent COVID outbreaks relatively unscathed. Victoria 5 00:00:19,040 --> 00:00:22,370 Adam Lang: and South Australia have now emerged from their lockdown's, though 6 00:00:22,640 --> 00:00:26,420 Adam Lang: for Victoria, it's becoming a familiar process. Queensland is just entering another lockdown and in New 7 00:00:26,420 --> 00:00:30,080 Adam Lang: South Wales, Sydney remains in the grip of a COVID outbreak, 8 00:00:30,230 --> 00:00:34,309 Adam Lang: with businesses in hibernation and many struggling to stay afloat. 9 00:00:34,820 --> 00:00:37,700 Adam Lang: There's been a lot of talk about the government support on offer, 10 00:00:37,700 --> 00:00:40,490 Adam Lang: both state and federal. But there also needs to be 11 00:00:40,490 --> 00:00:44,630 Adam Lang: a realistic, detailed plan for what happens after a lockdown, 12 00:00:44,930 --> 00:00:47,729 Adam Lang: how businesses can be supported to get back on their feet. 13 00:00:48,229 --> 00:00:52,190 Adam Lang: Andrew Hunter is the Chief Executive Officer of CPA Australia. 14 00:00:52,580 --> 00:00:57,710 Adam Lang: He's proposed a five-point plan to support small to medium-sized 15 00:00:57,980 --> 00:01:02,390 Adam Lang: enterprises (SMEs) post lockdown. He's also got an insight into what 16 00:01:02,390 --> 00:01:05,959 Adam Lang: it's really like for these businesses right now. Andrew, welcome 17 00:01:05,959 --> 00:01:06,860 Adam Lang: back to Fear and Greed. 18 00:01:07,100 --> 00:01:08,480 Andrew Hunter: Thanks, Adam. Great to be back. 19 00:01:08,930 --> 00:01:13,490 Adam Lang: It's hard to talk broadly about post lockdown recovery when 20 00:01:13,730 --> 00:01:17,240 Adam Lang: different states are at different stages. But at some point, 21 00:01:17,240 --> 00:01:20,869 Adam Lang: we've all been through or are still going through lockdowns, 22 00:01:20,880 --> 00:01:24,200 Adam Lang: so I think we understand the challenges. Can you take 23 00:01:24,200 --> 00:01:27,290 Adam Lang: me through the five key points that you've identified? And 24 00:01:27,290 --> 00:01:31,160 Adam Lang: if I started the first one, you've recommended tapered support 25 00:01:31,160 --> 00:01:32,990 Adam Lang: for small to medium-sized enterprises. 26 00:01:33,380 --> 00:01:36,350 Andrew Hunter: That's right. And we think that's probably the most important 27 00:01:36,500 --> 00:01:39,140 Andrew Hunter: of our five-point plan. And the key point we want 28 00:01:39,140 --> 00:01:42,440 Andrew Hunter: to make here is the pain doesn't end for small 29 00:01:42,440 --> 00:01:46,940 Andrew Hunter: business when the lockdown ends. So businesses don't get a 30 00:01:46,940 --> 00:01:50,120 Andrew Hunter: lot of notice when they are about to go into 31 00:01:50,120 --> 00:01:52,700 Andrew Hunter: a lockdown. And in fact, we're talking days, not weeks. 32 00:01:52,700 --> 00:01:57,140 Andrew Hunter: And unfortunately, the last lockdown in Victoria is very fresh 33 00:01:57,140 --> 00:02:00,590 Andrew Hunter: in my mind. And I do recall that businesses really 34 00:02:00,590 --> 00:02:03,590 Andrew Hunter: only got two or three days notice, and that is 35 00:02:03,590 --> 00:02:07,940 Andrew Hunter: incredibly challenging for them from a cash flow perspective. So 36 00:02:07,940 --> 00:02:10,430 Andrew Hunter: they assume they're going to be open for business. They've 37 00:02:10,430 --> 00:02:13,459 Andrew Hunter: built up the inventory. They've got all of their labour 38 00:02:13,460 --> 00:02:16,279 Andrew Hunter: on board, and all of a sudden at very short notice, 39 00:02:16,280 --> 00:02:19,550 Andrew Hunter: their business goes into lockdown. Now, there have been good 40 00:02:19,550 --> 00:02:23,900 Andrew Hunter: support packages in place from the Commonwealth and the state 41 00:02:23,900 --> 00:02:27,889 Andrew Hunter: governments in Victoria and also in New South Wales in particular. 42 00:02:28,190 --> 00:02:30,200 Andrew Hunter: And I'll talk a little bit more. I think those 43 00:02:30,200 --> 00:02:34,070 Andrew Hunter: packages are doing what they are intended to do. But 44 00:02:34,070 --> 00:02:37,910 Andrew Hunter: the problem is cash flow does not return immediately, that 45 00:02:37,910 --> 00:02:41,870 Andrew Hunter: a lockdown ends. So businesses need to build inventories back 46 00:02:41,870 --> 00:02:45,120 Andrew Hunter: up again. They've probably had to get rid of some inventory. 47 00:02:45,350 --> 00:02:48,050 Andrew Hunter: We know for restaurants, a lot of their inventory is perishable. 48 00:02:48,440 --> 00:02:51,920 Andrew Hunter: And so when our world returns from lockdown and I 49 00:02:51,919 --> 00:02:54,260 Andrew Hunter: was one of the few people who decided to get 50 00:02:54,260 --> 00:02:57,320 Andrew Hunter: back into the office on Wednesday. What I noticed is 51 00:02:57,530 --> 00:03:01,670 Andrew Hunter: there's not many people about. So businesses and activity does 52 00:03:01,669 --> 00:03:06,650 Andrew Hunter: not return immediately. You look at even rural locations in 53 00:03:06,650 --> 00:03:08,690 Andrew Hunter: Victoria and New South Wales, and this is really the 54 00:03:08,690 --> 00:03:13,270 Andrew Hunter: first time we've seen the damage flow through into regional locations. 55 00:03:13,610 --> 00:03:16,400 Andrew Hunter: If you cancelled a holiday because of a lockdown, you 56 00:03:16,400 --> 00:03:20,329 Andrew Hunter: don't rebook it immediately. You often take weeks to rebook 57 00:03:20,330 --> 00:03:23,750 Andrew Hunter: your vacation. And so what we're suggesting is that the 58 00:03:23,750 --> 00:03:26,450 Andrew Hunter: Commonwealth government and the state governments, when you come out 59 00:03:26,450 --> 00:03:30,090 Andrew Hunter: of lockdown, should taper the support that they have for SMEs. 60 00:03:30,190 --> 00:03:33,200 Andrew Hunter: So let's maybe in the first week extend it at 61 00:03:33,200 --> 00:03:36,680 Andrew Hunter: the same level, in the second week, reduce it by half, 62 00:03:36,680 --> 00:03:39,260 Andrew Hunter: in the third week by half again. And that will 63 00:03:39,260 --> 00:03:43,370 Andrew Hunter: give businesses the opportunity to rebuild their cash flow and 64 00:03:43,370 --> 00:03:44,390 Andrew Hunter: get back on their feet. 65 00:03:44,780 --> 00:03:47,600 Adam Lang: That makes a lot of sense. The second point that 66 00:03:47,600 --> 00:03:52,270 Adam Lang: you've identified, the deferral of Commonwealth and State revenue collection. 67 00:03:52,280 --> 00:03:53,480 Adam Lang: Talk a little bit about that one. 68 00:03:54,350 --> 00:03:57,620 Andrew Hunter: Well, what we've identified in the conversations that we've had 69 00:03:57,620 --> 00:04:00,890 Andrew Hunter: with our public practitioners is the biggest challenge for small 70 00:04:00,890 --> 00:04:05,450 Andrew Hunter: businesses is simply liquidity. So what they're looking for is survival. 71 00:04:05,840 --> 00:04:08,360 Andrew Hunter: And I think the Commonwealth and the state and territory 72 00:04:08,360 --> 00:04:11,660 Andrew Hunter: governments are very sensitive to this. The last thing a 73 00:04:11,660 --> 00:04:14,930 Andrew Hunter: small business owner needs when they come out of lockdown 74 00:04:15,200 --> 00:04:17,570 Andrew Hunter: is to get a notice in the mail to say 75 00:04:17,900 --> 00:04:21,590 Andrew Hunter: you've got a sum of money due. We're saying defer it. We're 76 00:04:21,589 --> 00:04:24,679 Andrew Hunter: not saying write it off or eliminate it, but we're 77 00:04:24,680 --> 00:04:29,360 Andrew Hunter: saying give our small businesses some breathing space. They're struggling 78 00:04:29,360 --> 00:04:32,000 Andrew Hunter: with funding at the moment. Their biggest challenge is liquidity. 79 00:04:32,300 --> 00:04:35,390 Andrew Hunter: And small businesses we know struggle with access to finance. 80 00:04:35,390 --> 00:04:40,640 Andrew Hunter: Big businesses have different options for liquidity. Small businesses who 81 00:04:40,640 --> 00:04:42,770 Andrew Hunter: are struggling to survive can't just turn up to their 82 00:04:42,770 --> 00:04:45,690 Andrew Hunter: bank and say, you know, I'm about to go under. 83 00:04:45,710 --> 00:04:47,690 Andrew Hunter: Can you give me fifty thousand dollars? That's not a 84 00:04:47,690 --> 00:04:49,450 Andrew Hunter: great conversation to have with your bank. 85 00:04:49,940 --> 00:04:53,330 Adam Lang: It's so true. I think for any business struggling with 86 00:04:53,330 --> 00:04:56,930 Adam Lang: the ramifications of lockdowns, cash flow is always an issue 87 00:04:56,930 --> 00:04:59,090 Adam Lang: but at times like this, more cash seems to be 88 00:04:59,089 --> 00:05:02,310 Adam Lang: going out than coming in and I think just that mental 89 00:05:02,310 --> 00:05:05,460 Adam Lang: well-being around that is an important point on its own. 90 00:05:06,270 --> 00:05:09,150 Andrew Hunter: Look, I think that's a critical point, Adam. I remember 91 00:05:09,150 --> 00:05:12,210 Andrew Hunter: going to my favourite restaurant, and I always like to 92 00:05:12,210 --> 00:05:14,729 Andrew Hunter: support these guys. And I know the owner very well, 93 00:05:14,730 --> 00:05:17,010 Andrew Hunter: have been going there for 10 years. And I could 94 00:05:17,010 --> 00:05:19,440 Andrew Hunter: see just from the look on his face how much 95 00:05:19,440 --> 00:05:22,710 Andrew Hunter: pain he had gone through during that period of lockdown. And, 96 00:05:22,710 --> 00:05:25,620 Andrew Hunter: you know, the mental anguish and again, the pain doesn't 97 00:05:25,620 --> 00:05:28,020 Andrew Hunter: go away when you come out of lockdown. So the 98 00:05:28,020 --> 00:05:30,750 Andrew Hunter: support for these people and their mental health is just 99 00:05:30,750 --> 00:05:31,750 Andrew Hunter: incredibly important. 100 00:05:31,750 --> 00:05:36,089 Adam Lang: I completely agree. The third point you've identified is a 101 00:05:36,089 --> 00:05:40,529 Adam Lang: moratorium on Commonwealth compliance activity. Can you please talk a 102 00:05:40,529 --> 00:05:41,420 Adam Lang: little bit more about that one? 103 00:05:42,180 --> 00:05:45,810 Andrew Hunter: Look, it's similar to the deferral of the Commonwealth and 104 00:05:45,810 --> 00:05:50,420 Andrew Hunter: state and territory revenue collection, and we know the ATO (Australian Taxation Office) 105 00:05:50,430 --> 00:05:53,240 Andrew Hunter: are cognisant of this and, fortunately, we do have lines in to the ATO. 106 00:05:53,260 --> 00:05:55,710 Andrew Hunter: We're having a great dialogue with them. We think the 107 00:05:55,710 --> 00:05:58,620 Andrew Hunter: ATO should be putting a pause on debt collection. And 108 00:05:58,620 --> 00:06:02,880 Andrew Hunter: I have seen through experience talking to our public practitioners 109 00:06:02,880 --> 00:06:05,909 Andrew Hunter: that the ATO are doing a terrific job here. If 110 00:06:05,910 --> 00:06:11,729 Andrew Hunter: you miss your deadline for a particular instalment, a PAYG (Pay As You Go) instalment or 111 00:06:11,730 --> 00:06:15,620 Andrew Hunter: a BAS (Business Activity Statement) instalment, the ATO do get in touch with you. 112 00:06:15,810 --> 00:06:18,810 Andrew Hunter: But it's a good conversation, not a bad conversation. It's 113 00:06:18,810 --> 00:06:21,900 Andrew Hunter: not a 'where is our money?', it's a helpful conversation 114 00:06:21,900 --> 00:06:24,570 Andrew Hunter: to say how can we help you and how can 115 00:06:24,570 --> 00:06:27,029 Andrew Hunter: we work out a plan for you to pay the 116 00:06:27,029 --> 00:06:27,960 Andrew Hunter: debts that are due. 117 00:06:28,120 --> 00:06:32,160 Adam Lang: So the fourth point you've identified is consumer incentives. This 118 00:06:32,160 --> 00:06:35,550 Adam Lang: is an excellent suggestion, but what are some of the 119 00:06:35,550 --> 00:06:36,810 Adam Lang: incentives you're thinking about? 120 00:06:37,529 --> 00:06:41,010 Andrew Hunter: Well, the city of Melbourne had a terrific one that 121 00:06:41,010 --> 00:06:43,770 Andrew Hunter: I think they announced when we came out of our 122 00:06:43,830 --> 00:06:46,589 Andrew Hunter: most recent lockdown , as opposed to the one we've 123 00:06:46,589 --> 00:06:49,830 Andrew Hunter: just come out of, where they had a dining voucher 124 00:06:49,830 --> 00:06:52,289 Andrew Hunter: program where you could get 20 per cent off if you 125 00:06:52,290 --> 00:06:57,010 Andrew Hunter: went and dined in a city restaurant. They allocated $8.4 million dollars. 126 00:06:57,630 --> 00:07:02,070 Andrew Hunter: It was exhausted within probably about eight weeks. And my 127 00:07:02,339 --> 00:07:06,330 Andrew Hunter: suggestion is that they relaunch that, but I would do 128 00:07:06,330 --> 00:07:09,060 Andrew Hunter: it a little bit differently. So I went out last 129 00:07:09,060 --> 00:07:11,820 Andrew Hunter: night for dinner in the city and deliberately chose to 130 00:07:11,820 --> 00:07:13,950 Andrew Hunter: go out in the city because I wanted to support 131 00:07:13,950 --> 00:07:15,750 Andrew Hunter: restaurants in the city. And I took one of my 132 00:07:15,750 --> 00:07:19,140 Andrew Hunter: sons with me. And look, I was happy to support. 133 00:07:19,140 --> 00:07:21,060 Andrew Hunter: I'm not looking for the 20 per cent discount, but 134 00:07:21,060 --> 00:07:23,880 Andrew Hunter: what I would say is we want to get people 135 00:07:23,880 --> 00:07:26,910 Andrew Hunter: back into our city restaurants as quickly as possible. So 136 00:07:26,910 --> 00:07:30,390 Andrew Hunter: rather than leaving this incentive package on the table for 137 00:07:30,390 --> 00:07:33,810 Andrew Hunter: eight weeks, what small businesses need is cash flow and 138 00:07:33,810 --> 00:07:36,450 Andrew Hunter: cash flow quickly. So let's leave that package on the 139 00:07:36,450 --> 00:07:40,410 Andrew Hunter: table for three weeks instead of eight weeks. And let's 140 00:07:40,410 --> 00:07:44,580 Andrew Hunter: get our city restaurants to the capacity limit that they're 141 00:07:44,580 --> 00:07:49,610 Andrew Hunter: allowed to operate at. A similar thing for travel and accommodation. 142 00:07:49,620 --> 00:07:52,590 Andrew Hunter: So we would be keen to see people start to 143 00:07:52,590 --> 00:07:57,750 Andrew Hunter: rebook their holidays into, you know, I'm a Victorian, so I'd encourage 144 00:07:57,750 --> 00:08:00,810 Andrew Hunter: people to go on holidays in regional Victoria. And I 145 00:08:00,810 --> 00:08:04,530 Andrew Hunter: think those accommodation vouchers, again, don't leave them open for 146 00:08:04,530 --> 00:08:07,680 Andrew Hunter: too long. We want to see activity pick up rapidly. 147 00:08:07,680 --> 00:08:09,540 Andrew Hunter: And the way you do that is by putting a 148 00:08:09,540 --> 00:08:12,810 Andrew Hunter: deadline on some of these consumer incentives. They're really important. 149 00:08:13,140 --> 00:08:16,560 Adam Lang: Almost like helping to hit the reset button, in a way. 150 00:08:16,890 --> 00:08:18,150 Andrew Hunter: Yeah, it is absolutely. 151 00:08:18,450 --> 00:08:22,320 Adam Lang: The fifth point you've made is financial assistance for businesses 152 00:08:22,320 --> 00:08:24,960 Adam Lang: seeking advice. Can you please talk to that one as well? 153 00:08:25,860 --> 00:08:29,850 Andrew Hunter: Well, we see a correlation between businesses that seek advice 154 00:08:29,850 --> 00:08:33,420 Andrew Hunter: and those that thrive. And it's not just about going 155 00:08:33,420 --> 00:08:37,140 Andrew Hunter: to see your professional accountant about how to access capital. 156 00:08:37,440 --> 00:08:40,640 Andrew Hunter: It's also things like how to digitise your business. And 157 00:08:40,650 --> 00:08:43,350 Andrew Hunter: you recall when you and I spoke last time on 158 00:08:43,350 --> 00:08:47,940 Andrew Hunter: Fear and Greed, Adam, we'd just completed a survey of SMEs 159 00:08:47,940 --> 00:08:49,440 Andrew Hunter: in the Asia Pacific region. 160 00:08:49,800 --> 00:08:51,319 Adam Lang: And innovation in particular. 161 00:08:51,480 --> 00:08:54,929 Andrew Hunter: Yeah, that's right. And unfortunately, Australian small businesses picked up 162 00:08:54,929 --> 00:08:59,640 Andrew Hunter: the wooden spoon or the least likely to embrace digital 163 00:08:59,640 --> 00:09:03,150 Andrew Hunter: innovation in their businesses. Now, that has started to change, 164 00:09:03,150 --> 00:09:06,150 Andrew Hunter: which is terrific, but people need to go out and 165 00:09:06,150 --> 00:09:08,910 Andrew Hunter: get advice. So a lot of these businesses don't know 166 00:09:08,910 --> 00:09:10,740 Andrew Hunter: how to do it on their own. And we would 167 00:09:10,740 --> 00:09:14,310 Andrew Hunter: suggest to the government that they introduce, again, a voucher 168 00:09:14,309 --> 00:09:17,220 Andrew Hunter: system similar to what they're doing in the dining space 169 00:09:17,220 --> 00:09:21,210 Andrew Hunter: and the accommodation space and have it for professional advice 170 00:09:21,210 --> 00:09:25,860 Andrew Hunter: to enable people to A. excess capital to continue to 171 00:09:25,860 --> 00:09:29,160 Andrew Hunter: survive and B., to transform their businesses. Because the best 172 00:09:29,160 --> 00:09:33,330 Andrew Hunter: businesses today, what we're seeing is they've embraced technology and 173 00:09:33,330 --> 00:09:34,390 Andrew Hunter: they've become more digital. 174 00:09:35,130 --> 00:09:37,230 Adam Lang: Stay with me, Andrew. We'll be back in a minute. 175 00:09:42,470 --> 00:09:46,790 Adam Lang: I'm talking to Andrew Hunter, Chief Executive Officer of CPA Australia. 176 00:09:47,150 --> 00:09:51,640 Adam Lang: So you've been talking to CPA Australia members in public practice. 177 00:09:51,650 --> 00:09:54,620 Adam Lang: They're the ones working with small to medium-sized enterprises and 178 00:09:54,620 --> 00:09:59,300 Adam Lang: individuals rather than corporations. What's the level of confidence that 179 00:09:59,300 --> 00:10:01,160 Adam Lang: you're seeing and hearing about right now? 180 00:10:01,520 --> 00:10:06,020 Andrew Hunter: Well, it's mixed. Some industries are thriving. Some industries are 181 00:10:06,020 --> 00:10:08,179 Andrew Hunter: really challenging. But I think it is important to step 182 00:10:08,179 --> 00:10:12,110 Andrew Hunter: back and understand what the government support packages are trying 183 00:10:12,110 --> 00:10:16,189 Andrew Hunter: to achieve. So plainly, we are in a crisis and 184 00:10:16,400 --> 00:10:19,429 Andrew Hunter: everyone needs to contribute in the best way that they 185 00:10:19,429 --> 00:10:22,640 Andrew Hunter: possibly can. And I think one of the impressive things 186 00:10:22,640 --> 00:10:25,520 Andrew Hunter: that's come out of the crisis is everyone is doing 187 00:10:25,550 --> 00:10:29,689 Andrew Hunter: what they can for the businesses and the people that 188 00:10:29,690 --> 00:10:31,880 Andrew Hunter: are in need. And I think the way the government 189 00:10:31,880 --> 00:10:35,270 Andrew Hunter: has approached this problem is the first thing they've done 190 00:10:35,270 --> 00:10:38,650 Andrew Hunter: is they've encouraged the market to find a new equilibrium. 191 00:10:38,660 --> 00:10:41,120 Andrew Hunter: So rather than the government just stepping in and solving 192 00:10:41,120 --> 00:10:44,750 Andrew Hunter: the problem, they've said to the market, you find out 193 00:10:44,900 --> 00:10:47,959 Andrew Hunter: the best possible solutions that you can and then we 194 00:10:47,960 --> 00:10:50,420 Andrew Hunter: will try and fill the gap. So I think the 195 00:10:50,420 --> 00:10:54,500 Andrew Hunter: banks have been tremendous in helping businesses. You can have 196 00:10:54,500 --> 00:10:56,930 Andrew Hunter: a good conversation with your bank today. You can ring 197 00:10:56,929 --> 00:11:00,170 Andrew Hunter: up and say, you know, the lockdown's hurting me. I've 198 00:11:00,170 --> 00:11:02,330 Andrew Hunter: got a good business. You know, I'm a good payer. 199 00:11:02,480 --> 00:11:05,630 Andrew Hunter: I need to reschedule a payment that's due. And the 200 00:11:05,630 --> 00:11:08,750 Andrew Hunter: banks are being accommodating, which is terrific. I think landlords 201 00:11:08,750 --> 00:11:12,290 Andrew Hunter: are being accommodating. So I referenced my favourite restaurant that 202 00:11:12,290 --> 00:11:14,510 Andrew Hunter: I go to and the tenant there, the guy who 203 00:11:14,510 --> 00:11:18,680 Andrew Hunter: owns it, said to me that the landlord's been fantastic. And, Adam, 204 00:11:19,190 --> 00:11:21,860 Andrew Hunter: he hinted that they were paying about one-third of the 205 00:11:21,860 --> 00:11:25,160 Andrew Hunter: rent that they ordinarily will. And that's fantastic. 206 00:11:25,170 --> 00:11:25,730 Adam Lang: That's great support. 207 00:11:25,970 --> 00:11:28,610 Andrew Hunter: And then the banks have been good with the landlords. 208 00:11:28,610 --> 00:11:31,490 Andrew Hunter: So then the landlord who we know in Australia, there's 209 00:11:31,490 --> 00:11:34,730 Andrew Hunter: a love affair with property and anyone who owns properties 210 00:11:34,730 --> 00:11:36,020 Andrew Hunter: got leverage. So the landlord... 211 00:11:36,020 --> 00:11:37,330 Adam Lang: An unstoppable love affair it seems. 212 00:11:37,750 --> 00:11:40,430 Andrew Hunter: It certainly is. But look, the banks are very good 213 00:11:40,429 --> 00:11:42,770 Andrew Hunter: with the landlords. So they're saying to the landlords, yep, 214 00:11:42,770 --> 00:11:44,840 Andrew Hunter: we know you're not getting all of your rent so 215 00:11:44,840 --> 00:11:48,050 Andrew Hunter: you can defer your payments. But the other one that's 216 00:11:48,050 --> 00:11:50,689 Andrew Hunter: really impressed me and I've had a bit of a 217 00:11:50,690 --> 00:11:54,170 Andrew Hunter: career in small businesses and seeing what support they get 218 00:11:54,440 --> 00:11:57,260 Andrew Hunter: is suppliers have come to the table as well. So 219 00:11:57,260 --> 00:12:00,830 Andrew Hunter: they're saying to businesses who go into lockdown, if you 220 00:12:00,830 --> 00:12:02,900 Andrew Hunter: did place an order with us, we can put it 221 00:12:02,900 --> 00:12:07,670 Andrew Hunter: on pause. So they're helping them by extending payment plans. 222 00:12:07,970 --> 00:12:12,170 Andrew Hunter: So we're seeing a solution that is coming from the 223 00:12:12,170 --> 00:12:15,410 Andrew Hunter: private sector. And having spent most of my career in 224 00:12:15,410 --> 00:12:17,090 Andrew Hunter: the private sector and I'm a bit of a free 225 00:12:17,090 --> 00:12:20,780 Andrew Hunter: market person, I think the private sector, first and foremost 226 00:12:21,080 --> 00:12:23,510 Andrew Hunter: needs to find a new equilibrium. And I think the 227 00:12:23,510 --> 00:12:27,110 Andrew Hunter: government's allowed that to happen. Then what the government's doing 228 00:12:27,110 --> 00:12:30,980 Andrew Hunter: is it is doing enough to enable our businesses to survive. 229 00:12:30,980 --> 00:12:34,370 Andrew Hunter: And this is a little bit controversial, but some people 230 00:12:34,370 --> 00:12:37,870 Andrew Hunter: have been critical of government because they're not making businesses whole. 231 00:12:37,880 --> 00:12:40,640 Andrew Hunter: So they're saying, you know, if my turnover was two 232 00:12:40,640 --> 00:12:43,960 Andrew Hunter: hundred thousand a year and it declines to know to 233 00:12:44,030 --> 00:12:46,100 Andrew Hunter: zero for two weeks, you should give me two hundred 234 00:12:46,100 --> 00:12:49,010 Andrew Hunter: thousand dollars. And the government's saying, no, we're only going 235 00:12:49,010 --> 00:12:51,829 Andrew Hunter: to give you thirty thousand dollars because we're going to 236 00:12:51,830 --> 00:12:54,500 Andrew Hunter: give you enough to get you through the crisis. And 237 00:12:54,500 --> 00:12:58,309 Andrew Hunter: I think that is the right solution because if the 238 00:12:58,309 --> 00:13:01,189 Andrew Hunter: government made everyone whole, one, we would end up with 239 00:13:01,190 --> 00:13:03,740 Andrew Hunter: an enormous debt that has to be paid back but, two, 240 00:13:03,740 --> 00:13:06,350 Andrew Hunter: I think it promotes a moral hazard. We can't expect 241 00:13:06,350 --> 00:13:08,720 Andrew Hunter: the government to bail us out of every single crisis. 242 00:13:08,720 --> 00:13:12,500 Andrew Hunter: But what we should expect of our government is to 243 00:13:12,830 --> 00:13:15,559 Andrew Hunter: be able to get us through a crisis. And that's what 244 00:13:15,559 --> 00:13:18,560 Andrew Hunter: they're doing. I think the final point that I'd share 245 00:13:18,559 --> 00:13:21,949 Andrew Hunter: with you in this area in terms of confidence is 246 00:13:22,220 --> 00:13:26,780 Andrew Hunter: certainly in Victoria, businesses are conditioned to lockdowns. So what 247 00:13:26,780 --> 00:13:30,020 Andrew Hunter: we've heard from our public practitioners is that the good 248 00:13:30,020 --> 00:13:33,319 Andrew Hunter: business owners are building up cash reserves where they can 249 00:13:33,860 --> 00:13:37,040 Andrew Hunter: because they know that there are going to be other lockdowns. 250 00:13:37,050 --> 00:13:40,160 Andrew Hunter: But the other thing is they have come to expect 251 00:13:40,160 --> 00:13:43,730 Andrew Hunter: that during a lockdown, governments will be there to provide 252 00:13:43,730 --> 00:13:46,910 Andrew Hunter: them with a support package that enables their business to 253 00:13:46,910 --> 00:13:47,960 Andrew Hunter: get through the lockdown. 254 00:13:48,830 --> 00:13:52,069 Adam Lang: Can I turn now to the hopeful state of being 255 00:13:52,070 --> 00:13:56,090 Adam Lang: in post lockdown? Have you seen other trends emerging from 256 00:13:56,090 --> 00:13:59,780 Adam Lang: different states around the country as they've emerged from lockdown 257 00:13:59,780 --> 00:14:01,040 Adam Lang: and what we might learn from that? 258 00:14:01,940 --> 00:14:07,370 Andrew Hunter: It's interesting. Western Australia, for example, is going well. They 259 00:14:07,370 --> 00:14:10,700 Andrew Hunter: obviously have closed their borders very quickly to the rest 260 00:14:10,700 --> 00:14:13,099 Andrew Hunter: of the country whenever there has been a lockdown. I 261 00:14:13,100 --> 00:14:17,270 Andrew Hunter: think Tasmania generally is in the same camp. We are 262 00:14:17,270 --> 00:14:20,270 Andrew Hunter: seeing some interesting challenges, though, in Western Australia, which are 263 00:14:20,270 --> 00:14:23,410 Andrew Hunter: very similar to what they experienced during the mining boom. 264 00:14:23,660 --> 00:14:28,760 Andrew Hunter: There are labour constraints. So the mining industry cannot get labour, 265 00:14:28,910 --> 00:14:31,460 Andrew Hunter: not only can it not get it from international markets, but 266 00:14:31,460 --> 00:14:32,780 Andrew Hunter: it can't even go to other... 267 00:14:33,470 --> 00:14:34,040 Adam Lang: Domestic. 268 00:14:34,040 --> 00:14:37,910 Andrew Hunter: Domestic markets. So interestingly, there is a push on labour 269 00:14:37,910 --> 00:14:48,700 Andrew Hunter: costs for businesses, which is interesting. Tasmania, generally doing pretty well. Melbourne, 270 00:14:49,180 --> 00:14:52,330 Andrew Hunter: Melbourne actually is doing, Look, it's tough. I don't want 271 00:14:52,330 --> 00:14:55,450 Andrew Hunter: to create the impression that it's not difficult. But the 272 00:14:55,450 --> 00:14:59,950 Andrew Hunter: real surprise for our public practitioners has been the lack 273 00:14:59,950 --> 00:15:01,250 Andrew Hunter: of insolvency activity. 274 00:15:01,390 --> 00:15:02,230 Adam Lang: That's great news. 275 00:15:02,650 --> 00:15:05,590 Andrew Hunter: Look, it is terrific news. And again, it's because the 276 00:15:05,590 --> 00:15:08,560 Andrew Hunter: market has come and done what it needs to do, 277 00:15:08,860 --> 00:15:11,470 Andrew Hunter: which is the banks are stepping up, the landlords are 278 00:15:11,470 --> 00:15:14,860 Andrew Hunter: stepping up. The suppliers that can afford to are doing 279 00:15:14,860 --> 00:15:18,880 Andrew Hunter: their bit. And then the government is keeping businesses alive 280 00:15:18,880 --> 00:15:21,340 Andrew Hunter: so that we can get through this. Look, I'm an 281 00:15:21,340 --> 00:15:25,390 Andrew Hunter: optimist at heart, and I think Victoria is we're doing 282 00:15:25,390 --> 00:15:29,320 Andrew Hunter: incredibly well in a really, really difficult time. The ACT 283 00:15:29,320 --> 00:15:30,370 Andrew Hunter: is an interesting place. 284 00:15:30,610 --> 00:15:31,270 Adam Lang: Always. 285 00:15:31,270 --> 00:15:34,930 Andrew Hunter: It's always is an interesting place, but it's surviving well, 286 00:15:34,930 --> 00:15:37,720 Andrew Hunter: because government is there and government doesn't go away. 287 00:15:39,040 --> 00:15:40,090 Adam Lang: If anything, we've needed more of it. 288 00:15:40,540 --> 00:15:42,250 Andrew Hunter: Absolutely. Absolutely. 289 00:15:42,940 --> 00:15:47,350 Adam Lang: So, Andrew, just finally, what you're talking about there, I'm 290 00:15:47,350 --> 00:15:49,750 Adam Lang: really encouraged by because so often we get to talk 291 00:15:49,750 --> 00:15:52,630 Adam Lang: about a market that is so strong on competing with 292 00:15:52,630 --> 00:15:55,660 Adam Lang: each other, whereas what you've described is a situation where 293 00:15:55,660 --> 00:15:59,020 Adam Lang: we're actually cooperating to help each other get through a 294 00:15:59,020 --> 00:16:00,280 Adam Lang: really tough situation. 295 00:16:01,500 --> 00:16:04,540 Andrew Hunter: Look, it's a fantastic cultural shift that we've seen in Australia. 296 00:16:04,540 --> 00:16:07,780 Andrew Hunter: And so in my previous role, I was the CEO 297 00:16:07,780 --> 00:16:11,350 Andrew Hunter: of an export credit agency of Australia called the Export 298 00:16:11,350 --> 00:16:14,560 Andrew Hunter: Finance and Insurance Corporation. And one of our mandates was 299 00:16:14,560 --> 00:16:18,970 Andrew Hunter: to support small businesses. And what I noticed back then 300 00:16:18,970 --> 00:16:22,870 Andrew Hunter: was big business did not make it easy for small business. 301 00:16:22,870 --> 00:16:26,110 Andrew Hunter: And just one example to share with you. I remember 302 00:16:26,110 --> 00:16:28,870 Andrew Hunter: one of our small business clients picked up a big 303 00:16:28,870 --> 00:16:33,250 Andrew Hunter: contract with one of Australia's big miners. And after they 304 00:16:33,250 --> 00:16:36,460 Andrew Hunter: won the contract, the contract came to them physically and 305 00:16:36,460 --> 00:16:38,230 Andrew Hunter: it was seven hundred pages. 306 00:16:38,350 --> 00:16:39,100 Adam Lang: Oh, my gosh. 307 00:16:39,280 --> 00:16:42,430 Andrew Hunter: Now, that is not a good way for big business 308 00:16:42,430 --> 00:16:44,120 Andrew Hunter: and small business to work together. 309 00:16:44,290 --> 00:16:45,190 Adam Lang: There is your induction kit! 310 00:16:45,610 --> 00:16:48,440 Andrew Hunter: You know, that's just crazy. But what I'm seeing today 311 00:16:48,440 --> 00:16:52,810 Andrew Hunter: is really, really impressive is the big retailers. This is 312 00:16:52,810 --> 00:16:55,869 Andrew Hunter: one example that was shared with us. The big retailers are 313 00:16:55,870 --> 00:17:00,070 Andrew Hunter: saying to the people who are supplying them, if you're 314 00:17:00,080 --> 00:17:02,770 Andrew Hunter: struggling at the moment, let us know. If you need 315 00:17:02,770 --> 00:17:06,370 Andrew Hunter: to cancel an order, let us know. If you need 316 00:17:06,369 --> 00:17:09,790 Andrew Hunter: us to pay you quicker, let us know. And that 317 00:17:09,790 --> 00:17:13,420 Andrew Hunter: is just, it's a terrific response. And that's exactly what 318 00:17:13,420 --> 00:17:16,369 Andrew Hunter: we need to see in Australia. I commend the governments 319 00:17:16,369 --> 00:17:20,380 Andrew Hunter: there as well for first and foremost, letting the private 320 00:17:20,380 --> 00:17:23,830 Andrew Hunter: sector try and solve the problems because I do think 321 00:17:23,830 --> 00:17:26,770 Andrew Hunter: the private sector is better at solving problems than the government. 322 00:17:26,980 --> 00:17:29,260 Andrew Hunter: The government comes in at the end to fix the 323 00:17:29,260 --> 00:17:31,360 Andrew Hunter: bits that can't be fixed in the private sector. 324 00:17:32,020 --> 00:17:34,000 Adam Lang: Andrew, that's a great note to leave it on. A 325 00:17:34,000 --> 00:17:36,730 Adam Lang: really optimistic one. Thank you for your five-point plan and 326 00:17:36,730 --> 00:17:38,170 Adam Lang: for talking to Fear and Greed today. 327 00:17:38,770 --> 00:17:40,609 Andrew Hunter: Terrific. Thanks for having me on the show, Adam. 328 00:17:41,080 --> 00:17:45,129 Adam Lang: That was Andrew Hunter, Chief Executive Officer of CPA Australia. 329 00:17:45,580 --> 00:17:48,400 Adam Lang: This is the Fear and Greed Daily Interview. Join Sean 330 00:17:48,400 --> 00:17:51,310 Adam Lang: Aylmer every morning for the full Fear and Greed podcast 331 00:17:51,550 --> 00:17:54,220 Adam Lang: with all the business news you need to know. I'm 332 00:17:54,220 --> 00:17:55,780 Adam Lang: Adam Lang. Enjoy your day.