WEBVTT - Mushroom jury: What’s going on?

0:00:05.200 --> 0:00:08.119
<v Speaker 1>From the Australian. Here's what's on the front. I'm Claire Harvey.

0:00:08.240 --> 0:00:14.560
<v Speaker 1>It's Monday, July seventh, twenty twenty five. A thirty four

0:00:14.640 --> 0:00:16.880
<v Speaker 1>year old New South Wales man is in custody in

0:00:16.960 --> 0:00:21.800
<v Speaker 1>Victoria after allegedly torching a synagogue in Melbourne. Over the weekend,

0:00:22.840 --> 0:00:26.840
<v Speaker 1>an Israeli restaurant in Melbourne was attacked by kefir clad protesters,

0:00:27.280 --> 0:00:31.560
<v Speaker 1>prompting Jewish leaders and Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin nettan Yahoo

0:00:31.920 --> 0:00:36.080
<v Speaker 1>to demand Anthony Albanezi take national action on anti Semitism.

0:00:36.560 --> 0:00:40.760
<v Speaker 1>That's as pro Palestinians say Australia has failed to condemn

0:00:40.920 --> 0:00:45.760
<v Speaker 1>Israel strongly enough over the war in Gaza. Home Affairs

0:00:45.800 --> 0:00:49.760
<v Speaker 1>Minister Tony Burke says the incidents were an attack on Australia.

0:00:53.479 --> 0:00:57.480
<v Speaker 1>Hush COVID lockdowns were bad for kids. According to data

0:00:57.480 --> 0:01:01.400
<v Speaker 1>from the benchmarking exam Naplan, New South Wales, Victoria and

0:01:01.440 --> 0:01:05.720
<v Speaker 1>the Act have all fallen behind Western Australia, which had

0:01:05.760 --> 0:01:09.280
<v Speaker 1>the lightest lockdowns, and the results are most pronounced for

0:01:09.360 --> 0:01:14.000
<v Speaker 1>disadvantaged kids. Researchers say that could be because wealthy parents

0:01:14.120 --> 0:01:18.600
<v Speaker 1>had more time to supervise homeschooling. That's an exclusive live

0:01:18.840 --> 0:01:24.800
<v Speaker 1>right now at the Australian dot com dot au. It's

0:01:24.840 --> 0:01:28.760
<v Speaker 1>the biggest trial of the year and now the most suspenseful,

0:01:29.080 --> 0:01:33.040
<v Speaker 1>as the jury in Aaron Patterson's triple murder case enters

0:01:33.120 --> 0:01:37.560
<v Speaker 1>its seventh day of deliberations. What's going on? Legal affairs

0:01:37.600 --> 0:01:46.400
<v Speaker 1>correspondent Ellie Dudley joins us from Morewell in Victoria's Latrobe Valley.

0:01:57.720 --> 0:02:00.240
<v Speaker 1>There's a ritual every morning in the Victorian time town

0:02:00.320 --> 0:02:03.880
<v Speaker 1>of Morewell. As the morning fog clears and the temperature

0:02:03.920 --> 0:02:07.800
<v Speaker 1>creeps up past zero and into low single figures, a

0:02:07.840 --> 0:02:13.679
<v Speaker 1>crowd of people trapes us towards the courthouse. Lawyers, journalists, magistrates, registrars,

0:02:13.800 --> 0:02:16.600
<v Speaker 1>cops and regular people accused of crimes.

0:02:17.639 --> 0:02:22.760
<v Speaker 2>Everyone's very layered up, thermal layers, puffer jackets, beanies, scarves.

0:02:24.360 --> 0:02:27.520
<v Speaker 1>Ellie Dudley's our legal affairs correspondent and along with one

0:02:27.560 --> 0:02:30.560
<v Speaker 1>of our senior reporters, John Ferguson, she's been part of

0:02:30.560 --> 0:02:33.440
<v Speaker 1>that crowd trapesing into the court every morning for the

0:02:33.480 --> 0:02:37.600
<v Speaker 1>past ten weeks. It's the business of low level justice.

0:02:37.800 --> 0:02:41.079
<v Speaker 1>People who've been charged with drink driving or offensive behavior

0:02:41.480 --> 0:02:45.240
<v Speaker 1>fighting in the Street small time burglary this morning, Monday,

0:02:45.320 --> 0:02:48.560
<v Speaker 1>seven July. The thirty or so accused on the list

0:02:48.840 --> 0:02:53.480
<v Speaker 1>are overwhelmingly men, but the most recognizable accused before the

0:02:53.560 --> 0:02:57.040
<v Speaker 1>Latrobe Valley Law Courts is a woman, Aaron Patterson, a

0:02:57.080 --> 0:02:59.280
<v Speaker 1>fifty year old mum of two from the nearby town

0:02:59.280 --> 0:03:02.240
<v Speaker 1>of lean Gath who's accused of a crime that's being

0:03:02.280 --> 0:03:06.640
<v Speaker 1>followed around the world, allegedly poisoning her estranged husband's four

0:03:06.720 --> 0:03:11.440
<v Speaker 1>elderly relatives with death cap mushrooms she allegedly foraged from

0:03:11.440 --> 0:03:14.400
<v Speaker 1>the bases of oak trees around this very.

0:03:14.280 --> 0:03:20.200
<v Speaker 2>Woodland outside the courthouse in Morewell, the Latrobe Valley Law Courts,

0:03:20.240 --> 0:03:25.080
<v Speaker 2>there's a really large courtyard which I imagine usually is empty,

0:03:25.400 --> 0:03:29.160
<v Speaker 2>but at the moment it's packed with journalists, television crews,

0:03:29.200 --> 0:03:32.200
<v Speaker 2>people setting up camp waiting for this verdict to be

0:03:32.240 --> 0:03:32.840
<v Speaker 2>handed down.

0:03:34.240 --> 0:03:37.120
<v Speaker 1>Patterson has pleaded not guilty to three counts of murder

0:03:37.160 --> 0:03:40.520
<v Speaker 1>and one of attempted murder. The trial was initially set

0:03:40.560 --> 0:03:43.240
<v Speaker 1>down for about six weeks, but these things never quite

0:03:43.240 --> 0:03:45.880
<v Speaker 1>go to plan, and after two months of evidence and

0:03:45.960 --> 0:03:48.640
<v Speaker 1>a couple of weeks of legal discussion, the judge and

0:03:48.720 --> 0:03:51.800
<v Speaker 1>lawyers for both sides summing up, the jury was sent

0:03:51.880 --> 0:03:56.280
<v Speaker 1>out to deliberate, Ellie, everyone I know is full of

0:03:56.320 --> 0:03:59.560
<v Speaker 1>curiosity about the jury's deliberations. So today we're going to

0:03:59.640 --> 0:04:03.360
<v Speaker 1>ask and answer some of the big questions. First, what

0:04:03.520 --> 0:04:05.960
<v Speaker 1>happens when the jury reaches a verdict.

0:04:06.280 --> 0:04:08.920
<v Speaker 2>So, even when the jury reaches a verdict, they've been

0:04:08.920 --> 0:04:11.200
<v Speaker 2>told that there's a buzzer in the room that they're

0:04:11.240 --> 0:04:14.880
<v Speaker 2>currently deliberating in, they press that buzzer and that sends

0:04:14.920 --> 0:04:17.160
<v Speaker 2>a note to the staff of the judge to let

0:04:17.160 --> 0:04:19.680
<v Speaker 2>the judge know that a verdict has been reached. It's

0:04:19.720 --> 0:04:22.320
<v Speaker 2>the same process if the jury has a question that

0:04:22.360 --> 0:04:24.479
<v Speaker 2>they want to ask of the judge based on any

0:04:24.520 --> 0:04:27.239
<v Speaker 2>of the evidence that's been put before them throughout this trial.

0:04:28.400 --> 0:04:31.159
<v Speaker 1>Okay, and if it's guilty, what will be the next step?

0:04:31.520 --> 0:04:33.920
<v Speaker 2>The next step will be sentencing. We know that when

0:04:33.960 --> 0:04:36.800
<v Speaker 2>it comes to sentencing hearings they're often quite drawn out.

0:04:37.160 --> 0:04:40.080
<v Speaker 2>The judge, I imagine, will want to hear victim impact

0:04:40.080 --> 0:04:42.880
<v Speaker 2>statements and then Judge Christopher Biale will come to a

0:04:42.920 --> 0:04:45.240
<v Speaker 2>decision on how she should be sentenced and how long

0:04:45.279 --> 0:04:46.240
<v Speaker 2>she'll spend in prison.

0:04:47.520 --> 0:04:50.200
<v Speaker 1>What about if it's not guilty, she walks free.

0:04:50.680 --> 0:04:53.280
<v Speaker 2>So I imagine that it would be quite a frenzy

0:04:53.360 --> 0:04:56.000
<v Speaker 2>if she walks straight out the front of the courthouse

0:04:56.360 --> 0:04:59.120
<v Speaker 2>on the day. If she is found not guilty, she'll

0:04:59.160 --> 0:05:02.320
<v Speaker 2>be able to go ho We've seen photos already of

0:05:02.520 --> 0:05:05.599
<v Speaker 2>her house in Leengatha that's been wrapped up in a

0:05:05.720 --> 0:05:10.560
<v Speaker 2>thick black tarpauliny sort of material. It seems like it's

0:05:10.560 --> 0:05:16.560
<v Speaker 2>been wrapped, possibly multiple times to prevent anyone taking any photos.

0:05:16.640 --> 0:05:19.279
<v Speaker 2>Perhaps if that was the intention of her, if she

0:05:19.320 --> 0:05:21.040
<v Speaker 2>were to be found not guilty, and if she were

0:05:21.080 --> 0:05:21.839
<v Speaker 2>to return home.

0:05:24.960 --> 0:05:27.920
<v Speaker 1>So what do we know about what's been happening in

0:05:27.960 --> 0:05:28.760
<v Speaker 1>that jury room?

0:05:29.080 --> 0:05:32.000
<v Speaker 2>Oh, Claire, it's the million dollar question. As a journalist

0:05:32.000 --> 0:05:35.479
<v Speaker 2>who's been down there for a long time, everyone's asking,

0:05:35.600 --> 0:05:37.240
<v Speaker 2>you know, when are they going to come back? What

0:05:37.240 --> 0:05:40.440
<v Speaker 2>do you think they're thinking? But obviously we don't know.

0:05:40.839 --> 0:05:43.200
<v Speaker 2>So they're being sequested, they have no contact with the

0:05:43.240 --> 0:05:46.599
<v Speaker 2>outside world. They're in a complete total media blackout. They

0:05:46.680 --> 0:05:49.920
<v Speaker 2>get transported from their accommodation where they're all staying together

0:05:49.960 --> 0:05:53.719
<v Speaker 2>at a hotel, to court from Mondays to Saturdays, where

0:05:53.760 --> 0:05:56.600
<v Speaker 2>they sit and deliberate from ten thirty to four fifteen,

0:05:56.720 --> 0:05:58.800
<v Speaker 2>with an hour and fifteen minute lunch break in the

0:05:58.800 --> 0:06:01.000
<v Speaker 2>middle of the day where they can't return a verdict,

0:06:01.400 --> 0:06:04.440
<v Speaker 2>and then they get transported back at night. And so

0:06:04.680 --> 0:06:07.920
<v Speaker 2>they're not deliberating on Sundays, but they are deliberating Monday

0:06:07.920 --> 0:06:10.320
<v Speaker 2>to Saturdays, meaning that we could get a verdict at

0:06:10.360 --> 0:06:12.560
<v Speaker 2>any time on Monday through Saturday.

0:06:13.240 --> 0:06:15.919
<v Speaker 1>The judge, Christopher Biale sent the jury out on Monday.

0:06:16.120 --> 0:06:18.520
<v Speaker 1>Here's a voice actor reading what he told the jury.

0:06:18.560 --> 0:06:21.440
<v Speaker 3>Ben you should only discuss the case with each other,

0:06:22.000 --> 0:06:23.800
<v Speaker 3>and you should only do that when you are all

0:06:23.839 --> 0:06:27.279
<v Speaker 3>together in the privacy of the jury room here in court.

0:06:28.200 --> 0:06:31.200
<v Speaker 3>Don't discuss when you're at the hotel. Don't get into

0:06:31.240 --> 0:06:33.799
<v Speaker 3>little groups and have discussions about the case.

0:06:37.960 --> 0:06:42.200
<v Speaker 1>On Monday morning, the jury begins its seventh day of deliberations.

0:06:42.480 --> 0:06:46.359
<v Speaker 2>Is that unusual, No, it's not unusual, particularly in a

0:06:46.400 --> 0:06:49.480
<v Speaker 2>case like this when they have seen so much evidence.

0:06:49.600 --> 0:06:51.359
<v Speaker 2>This was a trial that was supposed to last for

0:06:51.400 --> 0:06:54.200
<v Speaker 2>four to six weeks and I think we got almost

0:06:54.240 --> 0:06:57.000
<v Speaker 2>up to ten weeks of evidence for them to look at.

0:06:57.520 --> 0:06:59.839
<v Speaker 2>So no, it's not unusual. And we can also see

0:06:59.839 --> 0:07:03.240
<v Speaker 2>that in past cases that had been decided. So Kelly Lane,

0:07:03.279 --> 0:07:05.960
<v Speaker 2>who was accused of murdering her baby. The jury took

0:07:06.040 --> 0:07:09.359
<v Speaker 2>six days to convict her. George Pell who was accused

0:07:09.360 --> 0:07:11.920
<v Speaker 2>of child sex abuse, the jury deliberated for more than

0:07:11.960 --> 0:07:14.840
<v Speaker 2>four days before he was convicted, a conviction that, as

0:07:14.840 --> 0:07:18.640
<v Speaker 2>we know, was later overturned. For Northern Territory police officer

0:07:18.720 --> 0:07:21.400
<v Speaker 2>Zachary Rolfe, it took just seven hours for him to

0:07:21.440 --> 0:07:23.440
<v Speaker 2>be acquitted of murdering Kumen Jay Walker.

0:07:25.040 --> 0:07:28.360
<v Speaker 1>In another high profile matter, where Bruce Lehman was accused

0:07:28.360 --> 0:07:31.840
<v Speaker 1>of sexually assaulting Brittany Higgins, he pleaded not guilty. The

0:07:31.960 --> 0:07:35.080
<v Speaker 1>jury had been deliberating for five days when one of

0:07:35.120 --> 0:07:39.000
<v Speaker 1>them was caught with unauthorized materials in the jury room.

0:07:39.320 --> 0:07:41.520
<v Speaker 1>The judge told the court in that matter, an official

0:07:41.600 --> 0:07:44.840
<v Speaker 1>was in the room after a day's deliberations and knocked

0:07:44.880 --> 0:07:48.120
<v Speaker 1>a folder to the floor, and while picking up the

0:07:48.280 --> 0:07:52.000
<v Speaker 1>materials that fell down, found a research report which hadn't

0:07:52.000 --> 0:07:55.280
<v Speaker 1>been part of the evidence, something the juries weren't allowed

0:07:55.320 --> 0:07:59.280
<v Speaker 1>to have in there. The jury was discharged and prosecutors

0:07:59.320 --> 0:08:03.720
<v Speaker 1>declined to have another trial. So even now, I guess, ellie,

0:08:03.800 --> 0:08:06.960
<v Speaker 1>we can assume the juries under close scrutiny.

0:08:07.200 --> 0:08:09.880
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so there are jury keepers in this case. So

0:08:10.200 --> 0:08:12.280
<v Speaker 2>Their job is just as it sounds. It's to keep

0:08:12.360 --> 0:08:15.720
<v Speaker 2>the jury and to ensure that they help them facilitate

0:08:15.840 --> 0:08:19.520
<v Speaker 2>reaching a decision without any external influences on that decision

0:08:19.600 --> 0:08:22.400
<v Speaker 2>except for the evidence that is in front of them.

0:08:22.720 --> 0:08:24.840
<v Speaker 2>The judge also did give a warning to the jury

0:08:24.960 --> 0:08:27.280
<v Speaker 2>not to reveal how their numbers were falling.

0:08:27.840 --> 0:08:30.000
<v Speaker 1>He's a voice actor reading the judge's words.

0:08:30.640 --> 0:08:33.160
<v Speaker 3>There's one thing that must not appear in any question

0:08:33.240 --> 0:08:36.480
<v Speaker 3>that you ask, and that's the numbers. I don't want

0:08:36.520 --> 0:08:39.400
<v Speaker 3>to know about it. I don't want to hear about it.

0:08:40.800 --> 0:08:43.520
<v Speaker 1>Sometimes a jury returns to court and tells the judge

0:08:43.559 --> 0:08:47.280
<v Speaker 1>they just can't get to a unanimous verdict. Now in Victoria,

0:08:47.360 --> 0:08:50.600
<v Speaker 1>on some offenses, a judge can accept a majority verdict,

0:08:50.720 --> 0:08:53.360
<v Speaker 1>but not murder. It has to be unanimous. If a

0:08:53.440 --> 0:08:56.240
<v Speaker 1>jury is deadlocked, the judge can come in with something

0:08:56.280 --> 0:08:59.719
<v Speaker 1>called a black direction that's named after a High Court

0:08:59.760 --> 0:09:02.920
<v Speaker 1>disease vision that said judges can tell a deadlock jury

0:09:02.920 --> 0:09:05.520
<v Speaker 1>to go back into the jury room and keep going.

0:09:06.360 --> 0:09:08.920
<v Speaker 1>The High Court said a jura who holds out and

0:09:09.080 --> 0:09:11.960
<v Speaker 1>goes with his or her conscience is not breaching his

0:09:12.120 --> 0:09:15.040
<v Speaker 1>or her oath. That's a legitimate way of serving justice.

0:09:15.600 --> 0:09:19.040
<v Speaker 1>So if Justice Beale gives a black direction, he'll be

0:09:19.200 --> 0:09:22.920
<v Speaker 1>careful not to put pressure on any dura to crumble

0:09:23.000 --> 0:09:30.360
<v Speaker 1>and go with the majority. After the break the big

0:09:30.480 --> 0:09:42.920
<v Speaker 1>question of motive the jury must decide. On the surface,

0:09:42.960 --> 0:09:46.680
<v Speaker 1>this seems like a relatively straightforward matter. The Kelly Laine case,

0:09:46.720 --> 0:09:49.560
<v Speaker 1>which we discussed earlier, that was a six month trial.

0:09:50.040 --> 0:09:52.679
<v Speaker 1>This one was relatively short and the charges are all

0:09:52.720 --> 0:09:55.280
<v Speaker 1>the same because they all relate to the same meal

0:09:55.760 --> 0:09:58.720
<v Speaker 1>beef Wellington served in July twenty twenty three at a

0:09:58.760 --> 0:10:02.840
<v Speaker 1>family lunch in which Erin Patterson had also invited her husband, Simon,

0:10:03.200 --> 0:10:06.400
<v Speaker 1>he declined to attend. There are three counts of murder

0:10:06.440 --> 0:10:09.920
<v Speaker 1>relating to Simon's parents Don and Gail, and his auntie

0:10:09.920 --> 0:10:12.000
<v Speaker 1>Heather Wilkinson, she was Gail's sister.

0:10:12.920 --> 0:10:15.720
<v Speaker 3>To prove that the accused is guilty of murder, the

0:10:15.800 --> 0:10:21.920
<v Speaker 3>prosecution must prove the following four elements beyond reasonable doubt.

0:10:22.679 --> 0:10:26.400
<v Speaker 3>One the accused caused the death of the deceased by

0:10:26.440 --> 0:10:28.400
<v Speaker 3>serving the deceased a poisoned meal.

0:10:29.760 --> 0:10:32.800
<v Speaker 1>The judge that it wasn't disputed that Patterson served beef

0:10:32.800 --> 0:10:37.000
<v Speaker 1>Wellington's that she had made that were poisoned with deathcat mushrooms,

0:10:37.160 --> 0:10:38.680
<v Speaker 1>or that this caused their deaths.

0:10:39.800 --> 0:10:45.319
<v Speaker 3>Two, the accused alleged conduct was conscious, voluntary, and deliberate.

0:10:46.000 --> 0:10:49.880
<v Speaker 3>Three at the time of the alleged conduct, the accused

0:10:49.920 --> 0:10:54.320
<v Speaker 3>intended to kill or cause really serious injury to the deceased.

0:10:56.040 --> 0:11:01.040
<v Speaker 3>Four the accused killed the deceased without lawful justification or excuse.

0:11:02.559 --> 0:11:05.640
<v Speaker 1>Deliberate is the most important word there, because that's what's

0:11:05.679 --> 0:11:09.960
<v Speaker 1>in dispute here. The defense says Patterson accidentally included death

0:11:09.960 --> 0:11:13.120
<v Speaker 1>cap mushrooms in the meal eaten by everyone, and that

0:11:13.360 --> 0:11:17.040
<v Speaker 1>she vomited after the meal and didn't become seriously unwell.

0:11:17.720 --> 0:11:21.040
<v Speaker 1>The Crown says Patterson made a death cap free version

0:11:21.080 --> 0:11:24.480
<v Speaker 1>of the meal for herself and poisoned the four plates

0:11:24.520 --> 0:11:31.199
<v Speaker 1>intended for her guests. The big missing element is a motive.

0:11:31.520 --> 0:11:34.160
<v Speaker 1>The Crown has not presented the jury with an alleged motive,

0:11:34.320 --> 0:11:37.120
<v Speaker 1>but says Aaron Patterson was hostile to Simon and his

0:11:37.200 --> 0:11:41.199
<v Speaker 1>parents after a dispute about the separation. The defense says,

0:11:41.240 --> 0:11:44.120
<v Speaker 1>in fact, Aaron Patterson had a motive not to murder.

0:11:44.440 --> 0:11:47.400
<v Speaker 1>The Patterson's and Wilkinsons were part of her very small

0:11:47.440 --> 0:11:51.040
<v Speaker 1>support network in this country town. The judge summed it

0:11:51.120 --> 0:11:51.800
<v Speaker 1>up like this.

0:11:52.559 --> 0:11:55.640
<v Speaker 3>For some murders there may be evidence of motive, but

0:11:55.679 --> 0:11:59.680
<v Speaker 3>some murders occur for no apparent reason. The motives of

0:11:59.720 --> 0:12:03.079
<v Speaker 3>such murders might only ever be known to the accused.

0:12:03.960 --> 0:12:07.000
<v Speaker 2>The jury have heard a lot of evidence and a

0:12:07.040 --> 0:12:10.680
<v Speaker 2>lot of summing up of that evidence from the defense,

0:12:10.800 --> 0:12:13.880
<v Speaker 2>from the prosecution, and then the judges charge alone that

0:12:14.040 --> 0:12:18.000
<v Speaker 2>was more than three hundred pages. So they understand that

0:12:18.080 --> 0:12:20.600
<v Speaker 2>the information that they're processing and the evidence that they're

0:12:20.640 --> 0:12:23.959
<v Speaker 2>assessing isn't to be taken lightly. And I think that

0:12:24.000 --> 0:12:26.240
<v Speaker 2>it's clear from the time that they're taking that they

0:12:26.240 --> 0:12:28.240
<v Speaker 2>want to make sure that the verdict they reach is

0:12:28.240 --> 0:12:29.800
<v Speaker 2>the right one.

0:12:29.880 --> 0:12:33.120
<v Speaker 1>Ellie Dudley is The Australian's Legal affairs correspondent and she's

0:12:33.200 --> 0:12:36.040
<v Speaker 1>ready and waiting at the Latrobe Valley Law Courts along

0:12:36.040 --> 0:12:40.880
<v Speaker 1>with our team. The Australian subscribers will get an alert

0:12:40.920 --> 0:12:43.480
<v Speaker 1>on their phones as soon as the jury reaches a verdict,

0:12:43.760 --> 0:12:45.720
<v Speaker 1>and you can be the first to read all the

0:12:45.760 --> 0:12:49.239
<v Speaker 1>news and our analysis by joining us at the Australian

0:12:49.400 --> 0:13:02.480
<v Speaker 1>dot com AU