Speaker 1: It's a funny thing talking to writers about their creative process,
Speaker 1: the approach, the way they're able to articulate and conceive,
Speaker 1: of the intangible elements that conspire to allow them to
Speaker 1: do what they do. It sits somewhere between solid, functional,
Speaker 1: deliberate craft on the one hand, and something altogether more nebulous,
Speaker 1: hand wavy mystery. Some writers plan, others make it up
Speaker 1: as they go along. Some base character an incident on research,
Speaker 1: on lived experience, on the historical record. Others follow where
Speaker 1: the characters take them constantly surprised, swept up by the muse.
Speaker 1: But one of the biggest devices lies in their approach
Speaker 1: to their rightly vocation. Most writers I've ever spoken to
Speaker 1: have the bug, this kind of need and urge to
Speaker 1: write that fuels their days, But some of them have
Speaker 1: come to its sideways, almost accidentally. Some writers start late.
Speaker 1: I've always taken comfort in people like Annie Prue or
Speaker 1: Raymond Chandler, who don't even get started until they're in
Speaker 1: their fifties. But for some writers like Ruman, Alam is
Speaker 1: there from the very start.
Speaker 2: The mythology in my own family, and who knows if
Speaker 2: it's true. Is that I learned to read when I
Speaker 2: was four, I was taught a babysitter, and like once
Speaker 2: that happened, I never supped. So I think that it
Speaker 2: the kid who is a reader like that as I was.
Speaker 2: It's not a far walk from there to think like
Speaker 2: I'm also going to be a writer.
Speaker 1: Ruman Alam is the author of four novels. His biggest
Speaker 1: hit was the twenty twenty New York Times bestselling novel
Speaker 1: Leave the World Behind. It was one of those irresistibly
Speaker 1: zeitgeisty books about an apocalyptic event that strands a bunch
Speaker 1: of affluent New Yorkers in the Hamptons. In his latest novel, Entitlement,
Speaker 1: Ruman considers questions about need and worth, race and privilege,
Speaker 1: philanthropy and generosity. The book follows Brook Or, a single
Speaker 1: middle class woman who's just landed a job an octagenarian
Speaker 1: billionaire Asher Jaffey in his quest to give away a
Speaker 1: vast fortune. Soon, however, Brook finds herself disastrously adopting Ash's
Speaker 1: lifestyle without the funds to pay for it. An Entitlement
Speaker 1: becomes a cautionary tale. It's about self delusion and a
Speaker 1: city that values money above most other things. I'm Michael
Speaker 1: Williams and this is read this a show about the
Speaker 1: books we love and the stories behind them. Class is
Speaker 1: an element that's a play in all of Ruman's novels,
Speaker 1: but perhaps most acutely obvious in Entitlement, where the whole
Speaker 1: idea of social status and wealth becomes an obsession for
Speaker 1: its main character Brook. I wanted to start by asking
Speaker 1: you about class in America and about how important class
Speaker 1: is in the kind of spectrum of idea into the politics,
Speaker 1: in the spectrum of kind of sense of self in
Speaker 1: contemporary America.
Speaker 2: Well, with the caveat that I'm ill equipped to speak about,
Speaker 2: you know, the nationen large, it does feel to me
Speaker 2: that class is a pretty significant factor in American cultural
Speaker 2: and political life. You see it in the kind of
Speaker 2: I'm trying to think that sort of performance conducted by
Speaker 2: someone like Trump, who is of a certain class, a moneyed,
Speaker 2: urbane class, and is able via language and all of
Speaker 2: these other signifiers to address and sort of be glorified
Speaker 2: by a quite different class of Americans. So that kind
Speaker 2: of cross class thing I think we've seen. And Trump
Speaker 2: is hardly the only politician who does this, because the
Speaker 2: political leader in this country on both sides of the
Speaker 2: political spectrum tends to be moneyed, highly educated people who
Speaker 2: have gone to school in Cambridge or New York. But
Speaker 2: they're able to mobilize these sort of coalitions or camps
Speaker 2: of voters who are sort of nothing like them by
Speaker 2: appealing to them with some language that seems to be
Speaker 2: very rooted in class. And I think it's discomforting to
Speaker 2: talk about, as complicated as it is to have a
Speaker 2: proper conversation in this country, and I'm sure in Australia
Speaker 2: as well about racial politics, class politics feel even more
Speaker 2: slippery because you are sort of reducing huge segments of
Speaker 2: the population to these sort of articulous types based on
Speaker 2: all of these external factors. And yet I think it's
Speaker 2: also something that people understand is present. It's present in
Speaker 2: what your accent sounds like, it's present in what your
Speaker 2: name is like, and it determines so much of your
Speaker 2: experience of contemporary life. I mean, as a middle class person,
Speaker 2: I guess maybe it's the middle class generally, or the
Speaker 2: coastal middle class or the New York City middle.
Speaker 3: Class has the least reason to talk about it.
Speaker 2: Maybe that's more it's less salient to my experience of
Speaker 2: life because I'm not beginning my life or trying to
Speaker 2: radically change the circumstances of my life based on what
Speaker 2: I've inherited from my parents, based on the class into
Speaker 2: which I was born.
Speaker 1: Part of how from outside it appears to play out
Speaker 1: in an American context, which is something that's very present
Speaker 1: in all of your work, I think, is around the
Speaker 1: idea of aspiration. You know. The thing that always staggers
Speaker 1: me as someone who's not an American is how often
Speaker 1: the political debate in your country people seem to vote
Speaker 1: against self interest. There is something about the idea that
Speaker 1: you might not be a millionaire, you might not be
Speaker 1: comfortably off, but one day you might get to be.
Speaker 1: In the American dream, it's possible that you are going
Speaker 1: to end up in this position of privilege, and as
Speaker 1: a consequence, you're going to vote with your aspirational self
Speaker 1: rather than your real self. That get between what you
Speaker 1: want and what you're allowed to want seems pretty huge.
Speaker 1: Is that a reductive way of talking about your country?
Speaker 2: I don't think so, but you know I'm not running
Speaker 2: for office. I think that you said it yourself, the
Speaker 2: American dream. That sort of phrase is some of the
Speaker 2: most persuasive myth making we have in the culture.
Speaker 3: It's up there with just do it right.
Speaker 2: It's like that is the brand of this nation, that
Speaker 2: you can dream really big.
Speaker 3: And the way.
Speaker 2: That that has been sort of bent for the electorate
Speaker 2: by people who I think are ultimately quite cynical, is
Speaker 2: to appeal to this childish idea that you maybe a
Speaker 2: million someday and that you should not do anything that
Speaker 2: might cost your future self in sort of tax consequence
Speaker 2: or something, which is obviously preposterous, and you know, but
Speaker 2: it's quite successful. People rail in this country perfectly reasonable.
Speaker 2: People rail against the idea of the state providing lunches
Speaker 2: to school children, you know, which is crazy.
Speaker 3: It's crazy.
Speaker 2: They rail against things like inheritance tax, not really comprehending
Speaker 2: that the inheritance tax on one hundred and fifty American
Speaker 2: families could completely change the way the American economy functions
Speaker 2: because they imagine that someday, I'm going to leave this
Speaker 2: money to my child or you know, that that will
Speaker 2: somehow affect me.
Speaker 3: But it's not going to affect you.
Speaker 2: It's going to affect the Walton family or Bill Gates,
Speaker 2: but it has nothing to do with me, you know.
Speaker 1: As a novelist, how useful is the idea of desire
Speaker 1: and want and aspiration as a novelistic engine. It's instally
Speaker 1: one that you had drawn to. Is characters who hunger
Speaker 1: for things that are just out of reach or denied
Speaker 1: them one way or the other.
Speaker 2: That schema's efficacy, as like the engine of a novel
Speaker 2: is ultimately that's that judgment is in the hands of
Speaker 2: the reader. I would say that as the writer, you
Speaker 2: can't help returning to your hobby horses, and you just
Speaker 2: sort of find yourself back in this same territory over
Speaker 2: and over again. I thought of my third book, Leave
Speaker 2: the World Behind, as being really distinct from my first two.
Speaker 2: And while it is formally or in the sort of
Speaker 2: novelistic strategy, it is distinct thematically, it's not. It's really
Speaker 2: the same territory. And I think that that's I think
Speaker 2: that that is something that happens to I was going
Speaker 2: to say writers, but I think it's sort of something
Speaker 2: you see across the board that artists have these particular
Speaker 2: preoccupations and desire. And in this case, I don't mean
Speaker 2: a kind of vaunted spiritual or intellectual desire. I mean
Speaker 2: sort of like want of things or status or money
Speaker 2: or power. Something is a pretty It's a pretty easy
Speaker 2: one for me to get my head into.
Speaker 3: And maybe that's because I'm American.
Speaker 2: That kind of desire is like, that's you're taught that
Speaker 2: from your I mean, that is inculcated in you from
Speaker 2: the very beginning. You know, like I think it's not
Speaker 2: just about American life, it's sort of contemporary life. But
Speaker 2: contemporary life is about possessions and it's about acquisition. And
Speaker 2: this is a message that you are hit with constantly.
Speaker 2: I have two children, and I remember when they first
Speaker 2: started taking the bus to school, and then they would
Speaker 2: take the bus to summer camp. It was especially with
Speaker 2: my older son. You know, parents often with their first
Speaker 2: born can be very vigilant about being the intermediary and
Speaker 2: their experience of reality. But then they slip out of
Speaker 2: your hands to go off to school, to ride the bus,
Speaker 2: and they.
Speaker 3: Hear things like the radio.
Speaker 2: So this was a kid who had never seen the television,
Speaker 2: but would come home saying to me, I mean, he
Speaker 2: had said to me, this is like one of those
Speaker 2: stories that families love to tell. He had said to me, like,
Speaker 2: what are we doing for Toyota than right? Which is
Speaker 2: just a sales gimmick that he heard about on the
Speaker 2: radio on the way to summer camp. And so that
Speaker 2: kind of messaging about acquisition and buying is so persuasive,
Speaker 2: even to a little baby who doesn't know what you're
Speaker 2: talking about, who isn't going to buy a car, you know.
Speaker 3: So I just think that's like part of it's part
Speaker 3: of the culture. That's what we want.
Speaker 1: There's nothing quite like being a parent to get that
Speaker 1: stuff reflect to back to you as well. And you're right,
Speaker 1: it's a funny thing as they get all the way.
Speaker 1: You go from if not controlling, at least being preisent
Speaker 1: for the entirety of their experience and the entirety of
Speaker 1: how they understand the world that they're in, to other
Speaker 1: influences coming in and completely kind of fading in in
Speaker 1: different ways, which is such a confronting thing I think
Speaker 1: is apparent.
Speaker 2: And you know that said, even if you sort of
Speaker 2: curate their experience of reality, you know, with which we did,
Speaker 2: or we tried to do, as I think a lot
Speaker 2: of parents do here, read these books like you watch
Speaker 2: fifteen minutes of this show, you play with these organic
Speaker 2: wooden blocks. I remember when my older son was quite small,
Speaker 2: because it was before we had his brother, so he
Speaker 2: was three or less, and we saw a woman who
Speaker 2: lived across the street from us unloading sheets of drywall
Speaker 2: from the back of a van, and this little baby said,
Speaker 2: ladies can't do that, which is such a startling thing
Speaker 2: to hear from your kid's mouth, especially when you, you know,
Speaker 2: my Husban and I are like, oh, we're raising these enlightened,
Speaker 2: these are going to be like the great young men
Speaker 2: of the future. To hear him say this sort of
Speaker 2: startling thing. And my theory about that is that he
Speaker 2: was saying something he had seen in the pages of
Speaker 2: Richard Scary. Yeah, where those books you see the dads
Speaker 2: with the tool belts or you know, they're the butcher
Speaker 2: or whatever, and the moms the pigs or cows or
Speaker 2: whatever they are, are wearing aprons and they're cooking, and so
Speaker 2: he kids are just trying to make sense of the world,
Speaker 2: and the world is trying to shape their understanding of
Speaker 2: that world.
Speaker 3: And it happens to you too.
Speaker 2: And as you're saying, I think when you when you
Speaker 2: see it happen to your kids, you realize the extent
Speaker 2: to which it has happened to you.
Speaker 1: I mean Richard Scary as a prime example such kind
Speaker 1: of rigid gendernomes. But he'll still let a pig be
Speaker 1: a butcher, right, which seems like a strange job to
Speaker 1: us for a pig. I don't want to be judgmental,
Speaker 1: but that's the same time, kind, when did you know
Speaker 1: you wanted to be a writer, and what was the
Speaker 1: relationship between that moment and your experience as a rat.
Speaker 2: Adults can come to reading at any time, of course,
Speaker 2: but I think there are certain adults for whom it
Speaker 2: happens in childhood. It happens sort of like quickly and bindingly.
Speaker 2: The mythology in my own family, and who knows if
Speaker 2: it's true, is that I learned to read when I
Speaker 2: was four. I was taught by a babysitter, and like,
Speaker 2: once that happened, I never supped. And that is certainly
Speaker 2: my memory. It's hard to know, you know, how reliable
Speaker 2: that is. But I remember so clearly reading a book.
Speaker 2: I would take a bath, I would read in the bathtub,
Speaker 2: and I would finish the book, and then I would
Speaker 2: go back to the first page.
Speaker 3: I never it would sort of continue on. For me.
Speaker 2: One of the worst tragedies of my young life is
Speaker 2: when we were on vacation and I finished the two
Speaker 2: books I had brought, like I finished them like at
Speaker 2: the airport, and I had to read my father's copy
Speaker 2: of The Hunt for Road October for the balance of
Speaker 2: my trip when I was like ten. So I think
Speaker 2: that it the kid who is a reader like that
Speaker 2: as I was. It's not a far walk from there
Speaker 2: to think, like, I'm also going to be a writer.
Speaker 2: And I remember having this idea about myself, like pretty young,
Speaker 2: before I even started school, And it was always the
Speaker 2: kind of story I told about myself and to myself,
Speaker 2: and so feels like an inevitability. But of course it's
Speaker 2: so silly because I was a little kid.
Speaker 3: So what did I know?
Speaker 1: You were a little kid who would lie in the
Speaker 1: bath and write a book. I mean you had a
Speaker 1: certain kind of diacad and self knowledge there already.
Speaker 2: Yeah, a little a little princeling reading Judy Blum in
Speaker 2: the bathtub at ten magic. But I do you know,
Speaker 2: I think that like that stuff. I mean, it just
Speaker 2: becomes the story you tell yourself, right, sort of makes sense.
Speaker 3: Of your own life.
Speaker 2: But that is the story that I tell, And I
Speaker 2: think it's true that that sort of deep passion for reading.
Speaker 2: It was interconnection with an interest in writing or I desire.
Speaker 3: To you know, I just I couldn't believe it.
Speaker 2: Like I read as a kid, Judy Blume, I read
Speaker 2: Harriet the Spy, which is Louise fits you. And then
Speaker 2: as I got older, I read like I Gota Christine,
Speaker 2: and I just couldn't believe it. It was like this idea
Speaker 2: that these people somehow had the ability.
Speaker 3: It just felt like magic.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And to be honest with you, I mean I'm
Speaker 2: forty seven now, and I still feel that way.
Speaker 3: You know, I still feel that way.
Speaker 2: I was reading Coutzilla a couple of weeks ago, and
Speaker 2: I was like, this is crazy, Like what what am
Speaker 2: I reading?
Speaker 3: What is he doing to me? Like how did this happen?
Speaker 2: How did this book that he wrote thirty years ago
Speaker 2: come to me now?
Speaker 3: And you know, pick.
Speaker 2: Apart my brain. It's a very strange thing. And so yeah,
Speaker 2: it's sort of a life who I'm feeling about that.
Speaker 1: When we return, Ruman explains why the Genesis of Entitlement
Speaker 1: feels so singular and reveals how he manages his relationship
Speaker 1: with readers. We'll be right back. I'm curious about what
Speaker 1: that first spark when you know there's a new book
Speaker 1: on the horizon, whether it's more likely to be an
Speaker 1: idea or whether they come from character from story.
Speaker 2: So I have a very clear sense of how to
Speaker 2: answer this question with retract to my first book, and
Speaker 2: my second book, and even my third book. How this
Speaker 2: one entitlement it's genesis is a little hazy to me.
Speaker 2: A long time ago, my husband said to me about
Speaker 2: a friend of ours, an acquaintance really He said, you know,
Speaker 2: she's kind of like a chronically single woman at a
Speaker 2: time approaching midlife. And he said, you know, I think
Speaker 2: at a certain point you should be allowed to marry
Speaker 2: yourself and throw a big party and everyone has to
Speaker 2: give you a gift and sort of treat it the
Speaker 2: same way that they would treat it if you were
Speaker 2: getting married to another person. A not cruel joke, like
Speaker 2: kind of like a funny observation, And that really stayed
Speaker 2: with me. I remembered that moment, and at some point
Speaker 2: I think a lot of it is down to the
Speaker 2: pandemic that this sort of this book was sort of
Speaker 2: born in this period that I think was hazy for
Speaker 2: a lot of people. I had this idea about a
Speaker 2: woman choosing to marry an apartment. We were looking for
Speaker 2: a home in New York City at the time, so
Speaker 2: we had we kind of had like real estate on
Speaker 2: the brain. I do think that part of being a
Speaker 2: middle class person in your forties in New York City
Speaker 2: is that you think about real estate a lot. There
Speaker 2: was something very arresting in that idea to me, of
Speaker 2: a woman saying I'm going to marry this apartment instead
Speaker 2: of this man or this woman entitlement. Ultimately, the shape
Speaker 2: that it took strays pretty far from that. I remember
Speaker 2: at some point. It was also very interested in the
Speaker 2: not for profit sector in particular these and there are
Speaker 2: there are quite a few of them, these sort of
Speaker 2: family operations where somebody who has acquired a fortune or
Speaker 2: someone who has inherited a fortune works with a lawyer
Speaker 2: and a couple of other people to disburse this particular fortune.
Speaker 2: I know somebody who is involved in this particular business,
Speaker 2: and the person for whom she works is quite extraordinarily
Speaker 2: wealthy and has extremely specific priorities in terms of their
Speaker 2: giving their philanthropy. They're interested in very very specific causes,
Speaker 2: and the family foundation is an extremely small group of people.
Speaker 2: I think it's this guy and his attorney and a
Speaker 2: friend of mine, And that was very interesting.
Speaker 3: To me, because you are.
Speaker 2: Able to really do something, to really affect something, but
Speaker 2: you also are just some guy with a checkbook. And
Speaker 2: for the most part, I think that these sort of
Speaker 2: investments are going to things that we can all agree
Speaker 2: are generally good. To micro finance, to researching breast cancer, whatever.
Speaker 3: These are good causes.
Speaker 2: But there is something very peculiar about the fact that
Speaker 2: just because this guy who did not make this money
Speaker 2: he inherited it is able to channel a pretty significant
Speaker 2: fortune according to his whim. Again, not like a bad thing,
Speaker 2: but an interesting thing, very interesting to me. And I
Speaker 2: think since Empire of Pain and that particular book, that
Speaker 2: particular set of research into the Sacklers and how they
Speaker 2: may have, I think it's hard to sort of understand,
Speaker 2: but that perhaps some desire on the part of people
Speaker 2: who have acquired fortune are built of fortune in ways
Speaker 2: that they understand to be slightly less than ethical, that
Speaker 2: they can use philanthropic giving to kind of burnish the
Speaker 2: family reputation or burnish their name. That was also of
Speaker 2: interest to me. So I think what happens for me
Speaker 2: is that I have ideas that I'm interested in and
Speaker 2: I need something to make them start happening. And I
Speaker 2: think with this particular book, with Entitlement, it was really
Speaker 2: situated in the character that I had these two characters
Speaker 2: who sort of embodied these ideas, the idea of a
Speaker 2: young contemporary woman who wanted to sort of issue traditional
Speaker 2: romantic and familial attachments and sort of wanted an apartment,
Speaker 2: and an older wealthy man who was interested in the
Speaker 2: kind of ego flux of giving, of generosity.
Speaker 1: And I love that you described that philanthropic impulse is
Speaker 1: interesting but not bad, because I think part of what
Speaker 1: you do so beautifully and Entitlement is exactly that idea.
Speaker 1: You know, there is a I think a natural impulse
Speaker 1: in our culture, even if not in our politics, to
Speaker 1: assume that an octogenarian billionaire is going to somehow be
Speaker 1: a dastardly figure or be motivated by things that are
Speaker 1: somehow render the philanthropy unworthy or render him suspect. And
Speaker 1: I think the way you've built the character of Asher
Speaker 1: Jaffey in this book is really interesting because you got
Speaker 1: with interesting but not bad, I think could be a mantra.
Speaker 2: Right He's not a bond villain, you know. I mean
Speaker 2: there is we have and we actually have those billionaires
Speaker 2: in this country, right, these bond villain billionaires who want
Speaker 2: to go to space or live forever or whatever preposterous
Speaker 2: endeavor they have.
Speaker 3: I think of Asher. I mean, I'm very fond of Asher.
Speaker 2: They'll be more fond of him than any person I've
Speaker 2: ever made up On the page.
Speaker 3: He's like a nice guy.
Speaker 2: He feels like someone who's sort of lucked his way
Speaker 2: into having billions of dollars, and he seems on some
Speaker 2: level aware of the limits of his own intelligence. But
Speaker 2: I also think that when you are costeded by great wealth,
Speaker 2: you begin to think you are great, you know, a
Speaker 2: little bit immortal, a little bit unfalliable, right, And I
Speaker 2: think that this sort of gets into your head. But yeah,
Speaker 2: I think that I didn't want the book to rely
Speaker 2: on this scheme in which the old white guy is evil.
Speaker 2: You know, it doesn't seem that interesting to be. He's
Speaker 2: not great, I mean he does some his behavior is
Speaker 2: more complex, and I think that's true of most people, right, Yeah,
Speaker 2: it's people are more complex than that, you know.
Speaker 1: I'm glad you mentioned his degree of self awareness. Because
Speaker 1: I do think for both him and for Brook, they
Speaker 1: have a kind of key protagonist in the book that
Speaker 1: question about how aware they are of their own motivation,
Speaker 1: of the impact of their own behavior. And thinking back
Speaker 1: to your earlier books, how fun is it to write
Speaker 1: characters who are less self aware than you are as
Speaker 1: the authorial voice.
Speaker 2: Well, it's great fun because I get to exercise full control.
Speaker 2: I think that the challenge then, I mean challenge isn't
Speaker 2: quite the word, but the particular risk is that then
Speaker 2: it's a question for the reader. The reader has to
Speaker 2: have her own perspective on the degree to which these
Speaker 2: characters are honest or trustworthy, or likable or real, you
Speaker 2: know whatever. But people, That is how I think how
Speaker 2: people are. I think if you're again, if you're writing
Speaker 2: a story for children or sort of like a you know,
Speaker 2: then it's or fairy tale or something, it's easy to understand,
Speaker 2: sort of like black and white, good and evil like,
Speaker 2: you know, but the truth of reality is like a
Speaker 2: little more complicated. You know. Asher is a very smart
Speaker 2: man who made billions of dollars in his lifetime, so
Speaker 2: he has to possess some sense of what he's doing.
Speaker 2: But also I think that when you get to a
Speaker 2: certain point, or when you are He's of a very
Speaker 2: specific generation, it's possible to be slightly unaware of what
Speaker 2: you're doing or unaware of the ways, and you are
Speaker 2: exerting control over others. And I think the same is
Speaker 2: true for Brooks. She's not Asture's victim. Certainly, if the
Speaker 2: book sees her undergo an unraveling, or you know, if
Speaker 2: if her fate is less than ideal, I also think
Speaker 2: it's true that she's driven herself to that fate for.
Speaker 1: The fourth time. Now, you've written a book that is
Speaker 1: utterly compelling and kind of a wonderful read that is
Speaker 1: going to stay with me for some time. I did
Speaker 1: have a moment reading Entitlement, where I thought, oh, there's
Speaker 1: no one quite like Ruman for creating in me a
Speaker 1: sense of slowly ratcheting dread through the course of a book.
Speaker 1: I'm kind of reading brook and just thinking, oh, no,
Speaker 1: don't don't do that.
Speaker 3: Why the highest, the highest praise.
Speaker 2: I will acknowledge my particular debt in this particular instance
Speaker 2: to Sylvia Plath, because I did reread the Beljar.
Speaker 3: Of course, her positume legacy as a poet is really intact.
Speaker 2: But I sort of marveled at that novel on rereading it,
Speaker 2: that it was the product of someone who was so
Speaker 2: very young, and we only have that book and it's
Speaker 2: full of dread. That atmosphere is very potent, and my
Speaker 2: sense of that book is that Plath is using that
Speaker 2: atmosphere to sort of depict the water in which she
Speaker 2: was swimming mentally and psychically, but also those were the
Speaker 2: terms of life for a woman at mid century. And
Speaker 2: when I reread the book, I was like, God, I
Speaker 2: feel like oppressed just reading this book like this. The
Speaker 2: atmosphere of this book is so powerful, and that was
Speaker 2: something I really wanted entitlement to hold. And so I'm
Speaker 2: thrilled that you felt that way. But what I hope
Speaker 2: is that you are able to walk with that realization
Speaker 2: to reality itself. What happens to Brooke. Of course, it's
Speaker 2: a book, it's a novel, it's pretend. But the particular
Speaker 2: situation in which she finds herself is the situation in
Speaker 2: which we all kind of exist. Money is the mitigating
Speaker 2: factor of all things in contemporary life. And that realization
Speaker 2: is so unsettling that I think once you have it,
Speaker 2: you either look away from it or you go crazy.
Speaker 1: Rumin Alam's latest novel, Entitlement, is out now before we go.
Speaker 1: I wanted to pay tribute to someone in the Australian
Speaker 1: BookWorld who retired just this week. Jason Steger was books editor,
Speaker 1: first just for The Age and then after that for
Speaker 1: both The Age and Sydney Morning Herald. You may have
Speaker 1: come across him on ABCTV's The Book Club, where he
Speaker 1: sat and talked books with Marie Cardy and Jennifer Bourne
Speaker 1: week in week out, but he has been a mainstay
Speaker 1: of Australian literary criticism for many years now. Basically what
Speaker 1: Jason has done at those newspapers has said, read this
Speaker 1: to generations of Australian readers, and he will be missed.
Speaker 1: A big thank you to Jason, and I would be
Speaker 1: remiss if I didn't mention, of course, it is Sally Rooney. Week.
Speaker 1: Booksellers across the English language world went wild putting out
Speaker 1: the new book that have been strictly embargoed until publication day.
Speaker 1: It's called Into Metso. Early reviews are raves and I'm
Speaker 1: just about to start reading it myself. I can't wait.
Speaker 1: You can find Into Metso and many other books that
Speaker 1: aren't into Mezzo, and your favorite independent bookstore. That's it
Speaker 1: for this week's show. If you enjoyed it, please tell
Speaker 1: your friends and rate and review. It helps a lot.
Speaker 1: Next week and read this, I sit down with Melanie Cheng.
Speaker 1: She's the author of the new novel The Burrow, and
Speaker 1: she talks about how being practicing GP has helped inform
Speaker 1: her writing.
Speaker 4: I don't live an extraordinarily interesting life, but through my
Speaker 4: work I get to see into a lot of different
Speaker 4: lives and different experiences, and yeah, I've always brought that
Speaker 4: into my writing.
Speaker 1: Read This is produced and edited by Clara Ames. The
Speaker 1: show is mixed by Travis Evans with original compositions by
Speaker 1: Zulton Fetcher. Thanks for listening, See you next week.