WEBVTT - Corrupt cops and cold cases: John Ferriso Pt.2 0:00:01.960 --> 0:00:04.960 The public has had a long held fascination with detectives. 0:00:05.440 --> 0:00:07.840 Detective sy a side of life the average person is 0:00:07.920 --> 0:00:11.160 never exposed to. I spent thirty four years as a cop. 0:00:11.640 --> 0:00:14.080 For twenty five of those years I was catching killers. 0:00:14.480 --> 0:00:16.280 That's what I did for a living. I was a 0:00:16.280 --> 0:00:20.600 homicide detective. I'm no longer just interviewing bad guys. Instead, 0:00:20.640 --> 0:00:23.200 I'm taking the public into the world in which I operated. 0:00:23.880 --> 0:00:26.479 The guests I talk to each week have amazing stories 0:00:26.480 --> 0:00:28.840 from all sides of the law. The interviews are raw 0:00:28.880 --> 0:00:31.520 and honest, just like the people I talk to. Some 0:00:31.640 --> 0:00:34.680 of the content and language might be confronting. That's because 0:00:34.720 --> 0:00:37.720 no one who comes into contact with crime is left unchanged. 0:00:38.200 --> 0:00:40.479 Join me now as I take you into this world. 0:00:46.000 --> 0:00:49.159 Welcome back to part two of my chat with John Fariso, 0:00:49.400 --> 0:00:53.040 former veteran MYPD cop. If you listen to part one, 0:00:53.280 --> 0:00:57.080 we got a very detailed description of John's experiences when 0:00:57.080 --> 0:01:00.400 he was on the ground, not far aware the planes 0:01:00.440 --> 0:01:04.880 crashed into the Twin Towers on September eleventh. I've got 0:01:04.920 --> 0:01:07.760 to say, John, and I was speaking to you off 0:01:08.400 --> 0:01:12.280 camera off Mike that just hearing the story from someone 0:01:12.360 --> 0:01:15.160 that was there, it really it brings it home. You 0:01:15.280 --> 0:01:18.880 read about it, but unless you're hearing it from someone 0:01:18.920 --> 0:01:22.080 that was actually actually there, you don't fully appreciate the 0:01:22.080 --> 0:01:24.560 magnitude of the chaos that went on that day. So 0:01:24.920 --> 0:01:28.119 thank you for sharing that sharing that story. And yeah, 0:01:28.240 --> 0:01:30.720 I think it's important that the story is not forgotten. 0:01:30.760 --> 0:01:34.360 It was horrendous. It changed the world that day, and yeah, 0:01:34.760 --> 0:01:38.039 it's something that's embedded in everyone's psyche, but certainly for 0:01:38.120 --> 0:01:40.679 a native of New York like you, you must carry it 0:01:40.720 --> 0:01:41.520 with you every day. 0:01:41.680 --> 0:01:43.880 Well, that's why I did it. I wanted to let 0:01:43.920 --> 0:01:46.360 people hear a different story than it's been told, and 0:01:46.400 --> 0:01:49.040 definitely not the Hollywood story. And I wanted the human 0:01:49.080 --> 0:01:51.200 side to it, and I put it free online because 0:01:51.200 --> 0:01:54.240 that's I would just want people to not forget. I 0:01:54.320 --> 0:01:56.000 guess if you have ever a chance to tell anybody, he 0:01:56.080 --> 0:01:58.600 basically just doesn't want people to forget the story because 0:01:58.640 --> 0:02:00.920 they were Like I've said before, there were a lot 0:02:00.920 --> 0:02:02.280 of people that didn't go home that day and they 0:02:02.280 --> 0:02:03.559 never got a chance to tell the story. 0:02:03.560 --> 0:02:07.360 I'm telling now part two, you're going to have to 0:02:07.360 --> 0:02:09.960 feed my fascination of what it's like being a cop 0:02:10.520 --> 0:02:13.760 in New York because I've been fascinated by it. I 0:02:13.800 --> 0:02:16.480 love policing. If you're a career cop, you're always curious 0:02:16.520 --> 0:02:20.640 what's going on. You can go to different jurisdictions, different countries, 0:02:20.680 --> 0:02:24.680 and there is a commonality that we all share in policing. 0:02:24.720 --> 0:02:28.240 We can talk shorthand we know the world. But there 0:02:28.280 --> 0:02:30.919 was something about New York that policing just seemed to 0:02:30.960 --> 0:02:34.080 be policing on steroids. It was good, the bad, and 0:02:34.080 --> 0:02:37.400 the ugly and everything in between. So I just want 0:02:37.440 --> 0:02:40.320 to I want to read out something that you've written 0:02:40.440 --> 0:02:44.600 about policing in that other book. You've created telling stories, 0:02:44.680 --> 0:02:47.440 just stories about what occurs in policing. But this is 0:02:47.480 --> 0:02:49.959 how you've described policing in New York. So if we 0:02:50.080 --> 0:02:53.240 just start the conversation with that, these separate tasks come 0:02:53.240 --> 0:02:55.680 to you at random times, So going to work is 0:02:55.760 --> 0:02:58.200 like a roll of the dice. One moment, you're driving 0:02:58.240 --> 0:03:00.919 with your partner talking about nonsense, and five minutes later 0:03:00.960 --> 0:03:03.200 you're coming face to face with dangerous people who just 0:03:03.240 --> 0:03:06.080 committed a criminal act. The way that these tasks become 0:03:06.160 --> 0:03:09.040 overwhelming and mentally draining, if you allow that to happen, 0:03:10.440 --> 0:03:15.640 that's describing policing. The joy I found in policing was 0:03:15.760 --> 0:03:17.480 you never knew what your day was going to bring. 0:03:17.639 --> 0:03:20.919 You could turn up, you could be some of the conversations. 0:03:20.960 --> 0:03:23.440 I think we should record some of the conversations between 0:03:23.440 --> 0:03:27.200 partners driving around in police cars because they go in 0:03:27.240 --> 0:03:29.960 some wild, strange places. But you can be doing that, 0:03:30.080 --> 0:03:32.040 and I think it's to take the pressure off because 0:03:32.080 --> 0:03:33.680 you know you're going to hear a bit on the 0:03:33.760 --> 0:03:35.360 radio and the next thing you're going to be in 0:03:35.400 --> 0:03:40.680 some chaotic, chaotic situation. New York policing, my perception of 0:03:40.680 --> 0:03:44.120 it is it's dangerous. There's guns around, and there's a 0:03:44.120 --> 0:03:46.120 lot of crime. Do you want to talk us through 0:03:46.160 --> 0:03:48.680 some of the dangerous times you've been in policing, because 0:03:48.680 --> 0:03:50.920 we've all had it. If you're a street crop long enough, 0:03:51.160 --> 0:03:53.320 you've gone in the situations where you weren't sure how 0:03:53.320 --> 0:03:54.840 it was going to play out. Do you want to 0:03:54.880 --> 0:03:57.920 talk us through a couple of situations you experienced as 0:03:57.920 --> 0:03:58.680 a New York cop? 0:04:00.160 --> 0:04:03.280 Sure there is danger there, and you're told that as 0:04:03.320 --> 0:04:05.240 soon as you get in the police academy, and they 0:04:05.760 --> 0:04:08.680 would show us videos of the horrible videos of cops 0:04:08.720 --> 0:04:10.720 who got not just New York City cops, just cops 0:04:10.760 --> 0:04:13.960 throughout the country that got into very bad situations, and 0:04:14.440 --> 0:04:15.880 they would show it to you and they'd say, this 0:04:15.920 --> 0:04:17.960 is the profession you're taking. You need to be careful, 0:04:18.000 --> 0:04:19.880 which when you go to work, you need to be alert, 0:04:20.240 --> 0:04:22.279 you need to be in shape, you need to be ready. 0:04:22.520 --> 0:04:25.160 And I remember that we had an academy instructor and 0:04:25.360 --> 0:04:27.279 they would tell we used to call them war stories, 0:04:27.279 --> 0:04:29.280 and we wanted to hear the war stories. But I 0:04:29.360 --> 0:04:31.440 like the war stories because if it happened to them, 0:04:31.480 --> 0:04:33.880 it would happen to us. And they told us a 0:04:33.920 --> 0:04:36.320 story about how you need to be ready in the car. 0:04:36.360 --> 0:04:38.200 Don't you sit there with your head down and you know, 0:04:38.279 --> 0:04:41.200 not paying attention. So I remember that police academy story. 0:04:41.240 --> 0:04:43.600 And then I was had about five years on and 0:04:43.760 --> 0:04:45.880 we were driving around and my partner was talking about 0:04:45.920 --> 0:04:47.960 nonsense that had absolutely nothing to do with police work. 0:04:48.000 --> 0:04:50.159 And I wrote about this in my book It's called 0:04:50.240 --> 0:04:53.120 at the Window. And he was talking and we were 0:04:53.200 --> 0:04:55.120 driving and we had to pick up We used to 0:04:55.200 --> 0:04:57.360 have to pick up the prisoners meals because the prisoners 0:04:57.360 --> 0:05:00.760 would hang out the precinct. When this is New York City, 0:05:00.760 --> 0:05:03.760 you know, the courthouse is busy, like, don't send your 0:05:03.760 --> 0:05:05.919 prisoners here, keep them in the priests. So sometimes they 0:05:05.960 --> 0:05:07.600 would stay there hours, and you know, if they went 0:05:07.640 --> 0:05:10.919 into a meal, you'd have to feed them. So I 0:05:10.960 --> 0:05:12.680 had to go pick up a prisoner's meal because he 0:05:12.760 --> 0:05:14.880 missed he missed the scene the judge and we had 0:05:14.880 --> 0:05:17.560 to feed him, obviously. So we picked up the prison's 0:05:17.600 --> 0:05:19.080 meal and my partner got out of the car and 0:05:19.520 --> 0:05:22.000 I got complacent at that moment, and I picked up 0:05:22.000 --> 0:05:23.800 the newspaper. And it was before cell phones had picked 0:05:23.839 --> 0:05:26.480 up the newspaper, and I'm reading the newspaper to his day, 0:05:26.480 --> 0:05:28.160 I don't know what it was about. And I heard 0:05:28.279 --> 0:05:30.520 a thump at the window and I know now it 0:05:30.600 --> 0:05:34.359 was an elbow, and I looked out and there was 0:05:34.400 --> 0:05:37.320 a guy standing at the window with blood coming down 0:05:37.360 --> 0:05:39.680 his head and he had his hands duct taped like 0:05:39.720 --> 0:05:41.440 this and he was hitting the window at his elbow. 0:05:42.520 --> 0:05:45.880 So I, you know, I woke up. Man. The adrenaline 0:05:45.960 --> 0:05:48.960 just snapped to me and I was like, what just happened. 0:05:48.960 --> 0:05:50.839 So I started to open the door and the guy 0:05:50.880 --> 0:05:52.720 falls down and lays on the floor. So I'm thinking 0:05:52.720 --> 0:05:55.800 somebody just shot him in the head, and I'm like, well, 0:05:55.839 --> 0:05:57.880 what just happened. I'm looking around, and somebody comes running 0:05:57.880 --> 0:05:59.640 across the street goes, they were just at the store. 0:05:59.680 --> 0:06:02.840 They just ran out. So I'm like, who just ran out? 0:06:02.880 --> 0:06:05.200 What just happened? And my partner's not there. I got 0:06:05.200 --> 0:06:06.840 the police radio, but I still gotta find out. I 0:06:06.839 --> 0:06:08.360 can't just start yelling at the radio. I gotta find 0:06:08.360 --> 0:06:10.440 out what's going on. So the guy sits up as 0:06:10.520 --> 0:06:12.599 he's duct tape. He said that he was in the store, 0:06:12.680 --> 0:06:15.359 which was exactly in front of where I parked. I 0:06:15.440 --> 0:06:18.599 parked on the street, I parked, my partner walked across street. 0:06:19.520 --> 0:06:22.000 He said when I pulled up, he was being robbed 0:06:22.000 --> 0:06:23.320 inside and they were hitt him in the head with 0:06:23.360 --> 0:06:25.720 a shotgun because he wouldn't give up this the money 0:06:25.800 --> 0:06:27.200 or a safe. I don't I never got that full 0:06:27.240 --> 0:06:29.320 part of the story. And the other man that was 0:06:29.360 --> 0:06:31.039 there said, when I pulled up, there was a woman 0:06:31.080 --> 0:06:33.560 in front, saw me and my partner get out, saw me. 0:06:33.680 --> 0:06:37.599 She immediately ran inside. I would assume she told them 0:06:37.600 --> 0:06:39.720 The cops just pulled up. As my head was in 0:06:39.760 --> 0:06:42.880 the newspaper. Those guys ran out with shotguns, passed my car, 0:06:43.279 --> 0:06:46.360 or at least to the left of it. He ran out. 0:06:47.040 --> 0:06:50.479 And so if those guys wanted to take me out 0:06:50.480 --> 0:06:52.560 in the car shoot it out with me and my partner, 0:06:52.560 --> 0:06:54.160 they could have took my partner out without of snow, 0:06:54.200 --> 0:06:57.080 and they could have took me out. That's how quickly 0:06:57.120 --> 0:06:59.480 and how dangerous things were. Where I was just picking 0:06:59.520 --> 0:07:04.680 up a prison blowney sandwich and I drove into a 0:07:04.720 --> 0:07:06.080 hold up where they had a guy tied up and 0:07:06.080 --> 0:07:07.919 beating them with a shotgun right in front of me. 0:07:08.560 --> 0:07:10.920 Yeah. Well, that that is policing, isn't it. That? You know, 0:07:11.000 --> 0:07:13.240 you can let you let your guard down, but you've 0:07:13.280 --> 0:07:16.080 always got to be aware of what you might walk into, 0:07:16.120 --> 0:07:19.560 A walk around the corner straight into Do you get 0:07:19.600 --> 0:07:22.800 conditioned to that? I'm asking you, like you see, I 0:07:23.360 --> 0:07:25.520 know from my point of view, the impact that has. 0:07:26.520 --> 0:07:28.960 How did you deal with situations like that? Did you 0:07:29.000 --> 0:07:31.720 just go okay, well, I've learned a lesson, Now I've 0:07:31.800 --> 0:07:33.520 learned something more. I pay attention. 0:07:33.720 --> 0:07:36.200 Well, I immediately thought back to what the academy instructor 0:07:36.240 --> 0:07:38.520 told me, because he described almost the same exact situation 0:07:38.880 --> 0:07:42.160 that CUP officers were killed. In a situation like that 0:07:42.200 --> 0:07:44.320 where they drove up to a scene and they weren't 0:07:44.320 --> 0:07:46.440 paying attention, and the guys were they already there, and 0:07:46.480 --> 0:07:48.640 they thought they were there for another reason. You know, 0:07:48.800 --> 0:07:50.680 when I pulled up, those guys in that store probably 0:07:50.720 --> 0:07:54.000 assumed I was pulling up for them when it wasn't. 0:07:54.000 --> 0:07:56.080 The woman ran inside and told them. I found that 0:07:56.160 --> 0:07:59.320 all out later, So I definitely learned a lesson from that. 0:07:59.440 --> 0:08:02.320 I'm not saying you can't be pay attention hundred cent 0:08:02.360 --> 0:08:04.160 of the time, but you really have to keep your 0:08:04.160 --> 0:08:06.600 eyes focused. But I was just glad I was going 0:08:06.640 --> 0:08:08.920 home that day, and you know, the bad guys got away. 0:08:09.000 --> 0:08:10.320 I don't know if they ever caught them. I never 0:08:10.320 --> 0:08:12.440 found out. You know, detectives came and handled it, and it 0:08:12.440 --> 0:08:14.559 didn't matter to me. What maddened to me was because 0:08:14.560 --> 0:08:16.560 my partner walked out with his boloney sandwich in his 0:08:16.600 --> 0:08:18.400 hands for the prisoner, and I had explained Tom what happened. 0:08:18.440 --> 0:08:20.680 He saw the guy laying bleeding on the floor, and 0:08:20.720 --> 0:08:23.520 you know, we were just glad that we were going 0:08:23.560 --> 0:08:25.920 home that day, and we went back to the precinct 0:08:25.960 --> 0:08:28.400 and we went back of patrol duties. And you know, 0:08:28.400 --> 0:08:30.080 if I told that story to the guys they worked with, 0:08:30.080 --> 0:08:31.680 they'd be like wow, but it wouldn't make a difference 0:08:31.720 --> 0:08:33.520 because they were like, you're okay, right, A worry about 0:08:33.520 --> 0:08:35.160 he mad? The report there would be it wouldn't be 0:08:35.160 --> 0:08:35.720 that big of a deal. 0:08:36.360 --> 0:08:39.439 We tend to move on. We had an incident and 0:08:39.640 --> 0:08:42.559 talking about complacent in the building, I worked in the 0:08:42.720 --> 0:08:46.720 police headquarters where a person was waiting for someone to 0:08:46.720 --> 0:08:48.679 come out of the building and whoever came out, they 0:08:48.679 --> 0:08:51.199 were going to shoot, and sadly it was a public 0:08:51.240 --> 0:08:54.800 servant that came out out of the building and was shot. 0:08:54.880 --> 0:08:58.800 Curtis Chang. It was a horrible situation one Friday afternoon. 0:08:58.800 --> 0:09:02.280 I remember it, remember it clearly. But from that it's 0:09:02.280 --> 0:09:05.520 sort of police headquarters, it's major crime where all the 0:09:05.600 --> 0:09:08.320 detectives work, and it sort of wake everyone up to 0:09:08.360 --> 0:09:10.520 the fact that yeah, you'd go out to buy lunch 0:09:10.520 --> 0:09:12.840 and you wouldn't take your gun, or you do things 0:09:12.920 --> 0:09:14.560 and just drop your guard down a little bit, and 0:09:14.600 --> 0:09:17.560 it takes some horrific situation like that just to check 0:09:17.600 --> 0:09:19.760 yourself and go, Okay, well, if I'm on the street, 0:09:19.800 --> 0:09:23.880 I've got my gun, and yeah, you get complacent and 0:09:24.240 --> 0:09:30.000 Complaincency creates dangerous, dangerous situations. Policing isn't all bad, it's 0:09:30.040 --> 0:09:34.120 not all scary. I think every working cop has some 0:09:34.160 --> 0:09:37.480 funny stories or funny experiences or things that you've seen 0:09:37.520 --> 0:09:39.640 and you just think, I can't be seeing this. This 0:09:40.880 --> 0:09:43.840 is just ridiculous. And they don't have to be horrific. 0:09:44.000 --> 0:09:48.640 Sometimes they're just bizarre situations. I'm sure working the streets 0:09:48.640 --> 0:09:50.480 in New York as long as you did, you've seen 0:09:50.520 --> 0:09:54.320 some strange and unbelievable things. Can you recall anyones that 0:09:54.360 --> 0:09:55.280 you want to share with us. 0:09:55.840 --> 0:09:58.360 Yes, there's a lot of these stories that are funny, 0:09:58.360 --> 0:10:00.280 but couldn't make it to the book because it happened 0:10:00.320 --> 0:10:03.480 so quickly. I guess in New York we're so conditioned. 0:10:03.520 --> 0:10:06.679 It's just things happen very fast and you just move on. 0:10:06.800 --> 0:10:09.679 And you know, you would just go out on patrol 0:10:09.720 --> 0:10:11.480 and people would just run up to you yelling and 0:10:11.480 --> 0:10:14.600 screaming about nonsense. Sometimes and sometimes it was legit. Sometimes 0:10:14.600 --> 0:10:16.400 it wasn't. Like I could tell you how many times 0:10:16.440 --> 0:10:18.800 like you would have a major crime happened in the 0:10:18.840 --> 0:10:21.199 middle of the street and there'd be the windows of 0:10:21.240 --> 0:10:22.880 a call would be shot out, and you know, nobody 0:10:22.920 --> 0:10:25.400 got shots. Everybody ran from the scene. So you pull 0:10:25.480 --> 0:10:28.360 up and you're like, Okay, everybody's gone, let's do a 0:10:28.360 --> 0:10:30.520 crime scene. And then people come running into the crime 0:10:30.559 --> 0:10:32.400 scene screaming and you're like, get out of my crime scene. 0:10:32.440 --> 0:10:34.760 And the woman's like, don't give my car a ticket. 0:10:35.000 --> 0:10:36.520 So I'm like, this is your car. She goes, no, 0:10:36.600 --> 0:10:38.800 I'm across the street and I'm looking to like, you 0:10:38.800 --> 0:10:40.360 really think I'm gonna walk away from crime scene to 0:10:40.400 --> 0:10:42.480 give you a ticket. I'm like, get out of here, lady. 0:10:42.800 --> 0:10:46.200 So there's just situations like that that it's like, you know, 0:10:47.679 --> 0:10:49.960 there are people that believe everything revolves around them and 0:10:49.960 --> 0:10:51.800 you're there for them. You're not. I'm there for something 0:10:51.840 --> 0:10:53.719 way more important than you're a double parks car. I 0:10:53.800 --> 0:10:55.160 mean here for what just happened in the middle of 0:10:55.160 --> 0:10:55.560 the street. 0:10:56.080 --> 0:11:00.319 Yeah, there's a real big presence of place uiform police 0:11:00.600 --> 0:11:02.760 in New York, and you describe that, you know, you're 0:11:02.800 --> 0:11:06.319 a show for sometimes or you're giving directions. Everyone comes 0:11:06.320 --> 0:11:09.400 to policing. I remember my early days in uniform. I 0:11:09.440 --> 0:11:12.240 always get confused when you dropped in the city and 0:11:12.360 --> 0:11:14.800 area you don't know, but everyone's coming up and asking 0:11:14.800 --> 0:11:17.920 you for directions and like, you know everything because you 0:11:18.000 --> 0:11:20.559 were in the uniform. I would imagine that plays out 0:11:20.559 --> 0:11:21.760 in New York a fair bit too. 0:11:22.200 --> 0:11:25.120 Yeah, there was a joke Wheze to say, because New 0:11:25.200 --> 0:11:27.120 York is a very diverse area. You have like a 0:11:27.160 --> 0:11:29.959 lot of wealth and a lot of people that are 0:11:30.000 --> 0:11:32.480 not very wealthy, living sometimes right next to each other. 0:11:32.559 --> 0:11:34.320 And a lot of tourists come to New York, you know, 0:11:34.720 --> 0:11:38.559 so there's no accent or language you've never not heard. 0:11:38.800 --> 0:11:42.040 And I would be just you know, in Midtam Manhattan 0:11:42.080 --> 0:11:44.360 and you'd see these people wandering into a really bad area, 0:11:44.440 --> 0:11:46.600 sometimes not in mid toalm Manhattan, other areas of Brooklyn 0:11:46.640 --> 0:11:48.599 and stuff, and they'd hit you with this accent and 0:11:48.600 --> 0:11:50.120 you're like, what are you doing here? Why are you here? 0:11:50.120 --> 0:11:51.760 And they're like, we're lost, we're looking for the Statute 0:11:51.760 --> 0:11:54.360 of Liberty. I'm like, you're not even close to this. 0:11:54.800 --> 0:11:57.800 So my partner would say, they're walking sixty one. The 0:11:57.840 --> 0:12:00.400 reason we call a walking sixty one was st one 0:12:00.440 --> 0:12:02.920 was a complaint report and usually for robbery and burglary. 0:12:02.960 --> 0:12:04.760 So we're like, they're walking sixty one. If they keep 0:12:04.760 --> 0:12:06.960 walking around, they're going to get a sixty one. So 0:12:07.040 --> 0:12:09.000 the joke always was, why don't we just hand them 0:12:09.080 --> 0:12:11.800 the report and have them fill it out. So it 0:12:11.800 --> 0:12:13.320 got to the point when I had this nice old 0:12:13.320 --> 0:12:15.160 couple from the Midwest and they were looking for the 0:12:15.440 --> 0:12:17.320 I remember, they were looking for the Statue of Liberty 0:12:17.360 --> 0:12:20.000 and their van was out. I mean, they were going 0:12:20.080 --> 0:12:21.720 to get rolled. It was a matter of time. So 0:12:21.960 --> 0:12:24.280 me and my partner were like, I told the guy, 0:12:24.320 --> 0:12:26.320 you got to get out of here. Just follow me. 0:12:26.360 --> 0:12:29.120 So just we caravaned them out of the bad part 0:12:29.160 --> 0:12:30.800 of town and we put them in the highway and 0:12:30.800 --> 0:12:33.679 we just pointed, listen, get on to this exit and 0:12:33.679 --> 0:12:36.880 you're fine, just drive away. So, like, you know, you 0:12:37.000 --> 0:12:39.440 have the cop humor. You have to help people, but 0:12:39.520 --> 0:12:42.360 it gets the time when it's comical and you have 0:12:42.400 --> 0:12:44.319 to make a decision for something that's not even police work. 0:12:44.360 --> 0:12:45.839 You have to just be a good person and get 0:12:46.000 --> 0:12:47.920 the person that should not be there out of there. 0:12:48.040 --> 0:12:51.280 Yeah, and look, I think it's important that you've got 0:12:51.280 --> 0:12:53.640 to check yourself as a cop, that you don't lose 0:12:53.640 --> 0:12:57.680 your humanity. And yeah, showing that little bit of humanity 0:12:57.720 --> 0:13:01.000 that keeps you sane. But it's also the best way 0:13:01.000 --> 0:13:01.679 to do policing. 0:13:01.920 --> 0:13:03.880 Yeah, it is. You know, there was a lot of 0:13:03.920 --> 0:13:06.040 times we would be drinking coffee and we would think 0:13:06.040 --> 0:13:08.840 it's a quiet nate and like we get the call 0:13:08.880 --> 0:13:10.800 of an address and it's like next dought to where 0:13:10.800 --> 0:13:13.920 we're standing the next building. You're like, is this a joke? 0:13:14.080 --> 0:13:16.760 Like did he know we're here? We're having drinking coffee? Well, 0:13:16.800 --> 0:13:18.560 like we think we're in the same building, and you 0:13:18.600 --> 0:13:20.880 just step outside, make a rate, go upstairs. Now, like, 0:13:20.880 --> 0:13:22.360 how'd you get this off fast? Well, like when we 0:13:22.360 --> 0:13:24.920 were downstairs, they're like, oh, and then you're in the 0:13:24.920 --> 0:13:26.800 middle of a major crime again and you were just 0:13:26.880 --> 0:13:29.679 having your coffee and you're thinking, Okay, I'm going to 0:13:29.720 --> 0:13:32.280 handle this situation. Everybody's lived, it's good, but you're not 0:13:32.320 --> 0:13:33.920 gonna get back to have my coffee. That was my 0:13:33.960 --> 0:13:36.720 break and that's what police workers about. 0:13:37.320 --> 0:13:41.360 Yeah, definitely. Now, New York had a reputation of high crime, 0:13:41.559 --> 0:13:46.160 and Mayor Giuliani bought in that zero tolerance like we're 0:13:46.200 --> 0:13:48.880 going to basically arrest our way out of this situation, 0:13:49.200 --> 0:13:52.439 and so the people were getting getting locked up for 0:13:52.480 --> 0:13:55.599 all sorts of crime. What's your take on that? In 0:13:55.760 --> 0:13:58.640 the New York Cop did it work or did it backfire. 0:13:59.040 --> 0:14:01.559 It's an interesting because that's still the ramifications that out 0:14:01.600 --> 0:14:03.480 is still going now and I could do it. You know, 0:14:03.520 --> 0:14:04.800 there were a lot of people talking about it, but 0:14:04.840 --> 0:14:06.800 I could tell you from experiences because when I was 0:14:06.800 --> 0:14:08.839 in the police academy, he got elected as the mayor 0:14:08.840 --> 0:14:11.640 and he was the no nonsense, I'm gonna stop crime mayor. 0:14:11.679 --> 0:14:13.560 And I was a New York City resident and I 0:14:13.559 --> 0:14:15.520 remember it as a kid. My parents like, you don't 0:14:15.559 --> 0:14:17.160 go that section of town. You don't go to ask 0:14:17.200 --> 0:14:18.760 his section town. You don't go over there when it's 0:14:18.840 --> 0:14:21.560 dark out. You come home. And they were always telling 0:14:21.640 --> 0:14:23.200 us what way to go and what not to do 0:14:23.240 --> 0:14:24.880 and what you know. So I was like, there's no 0:14:24.880 --> 0:14:27.000 way this guy's going to clean up crime. And I 0:14:27.120 --> 0:14:28.480 was in the priest and I was a rookie cop, 0:14:28.480 --> 0:14:30.520 and they were like, we're going to start arresting everybody 0:14:30.560 --> 0:14:32.680 who commits minor crimes. And I was like, well, why 0:14:32.680 --> 0:14:34.080 would we do that. They're like, well, if a guy's 0:14:34.160 --> 0:14:36.560 urinating in the street, check if he has a warrant, 0:14:36.720 --> 0:14:39.000 because that guy probably has been committing crimes for years 0:14:39.040 --> 0:14:41.600 and he's never paying, he's never going to court. They 0:14:41.600 --> 0:14:43.720 were like, if he's urinating the street, if you don't 0:14:43.760 --> 0:14:45.160 see if he has a warran, if he doesn't give 0:14:45.200 --> 0:14:47.200 him a summons. So it started to make sense. They 0:14:47.200 --> 0:14:49.440 started with the turnstile jumpers, and if anyone's been in 0:14:49.480 --> 0:14:51.080 a New York City subway, you know it's not hard 0:14:51.080 --> 0:14:55.120 to jump the turnstyle, And so Juliani said, you jump turnstyle, 0:14:55.280 --> 0:14:58.280 you're getting arrested, and they start the transit cops started 0:14:58.320 --> 0:15:00.800 with that. And once they started with the turn style jumpers, 0:15:00.800 --> 0:15:02.600 like you know, they were catching guys with guns, they 0:15:02.680 --> 0:15:05.080 were catching guys with serious warrants. So I'm talking like 0:15:05.280 --> 0:15:07.480 murders and other states that came to New York. And 0:15:07.520 --> 0:15:08.840 you know, if you're a murder in another state, you're 0:15:08.840 --> 0:15:11.400 not that interested in paying your subway fare. But when 0:15:11.400 --> 0:15:15.360 they started arresting people for that, that's when they the 0:15:15.400 --> 0:15:18.040 criminals were like going underground almost they were, they were 0:15:18.080 --> 0:15:21.240 going behind. They would the weed deal is started to go, 0:15:21.680 --> 0:15:23.840 you know, on the beeper, through the payphone and through 0:15:23.880 --> 0:15:28.560 the they went inside. The prostitution went inside. So you 0:15:28.640 --> 0:15:31.520 had some old school guys who were like, you cannot 0:15:31.600 --> 0:15:34.640 arrest somebody for domestic violence. I'm like, well, they're telling 0:15:34.680 --> 0:15:35.840 me to do my crime. If if I go to 0:15:35.840 --> 0:15:39.160 a domestic violence situation and a woman has bruises, you know, 0:15:39.440 --> 0:15:42.720 I'm walking this guy up. They're like, you can't lest 0:15:42.720 --> 0:15:44.120 a drunk driver. I'm like, what do you mean a 0:15:44.200 --> 0:15:46.520 can He just hit six parked cars and he's passed 0:15:46.560 --> 0:15:49.080 down his calm taking. I'm locking this guy up. So 0:15:49.560 --> 0:15:53.560 it cleared stuff up pretty quick. Crime started to go 0:15:53.600 --> 0:15:56.160 down very quickly. They there's also people call it the 0:15:56.200 --> 0:15:59.800 broken windows theory, which definitely has that. And the c 0:16:00.280 --> 0:16:03.320 started to realize that they we were not just going 0:16:03.360 --> 0:16:05.160 to go to the scene. Like I would run into 0:16:05.160 --> 0:16:07.000 guys who'd just get out of prison, and they couldn't 0:16:07.000 --> 0:16:09.280 believe that we were harassing them for the things we 0:16:09.320 --> 0:16:12.520 did because they'd be like, Yo, what the fuck man 0:16:12.520 --> 0:16:14.520 I did prison time? No one bothered me for this shit. Well, 0:16:14.520 --> 0:16:16.080 like things are different now. They're like, oh, I heard 0:16:16.120 --> 0:16:19.240 about that, Like guys with shoplift and were like, you 0:16:19.320 --> 0:16:21.280 come with us, But all I did was steel. This 0:16:21.360 --> 0:16:24.200 I'm like doesn't matter. So we were locking guys for shoplifting. 0:16:24.240 --> 0:16:25.840 And then they started to realize that man if I 0:16:25.880 --> 0:16:28.240 got a fellonly warant I shouldn't be out shoplifting. So 0:16:29.080 --> 0:16:31.880 it definitely changed the city. It brought the tourists back. 0:16:32.400 --> 0:16:35.320 Another place was Times Square that went from the crap 0:16:35.400 --> 0:16:37.840 zone to people bringing their little kids there to watch 0:16:37.880 --> 0:16:40.760 Disney movies. That changed. That was I never expected that 0:16:40.800 --> 0:16:41.200 to happen. 0:16:41.720 --> 0:16:44.720 So I was interested in it because when I was 0:16:45.000 --> 0:16:48.840 studying and on different things about policing, and the broken 0:16:48.840 --> 0:16:51.840 window effect is quite interesting and I like the concept 0:16:51.880 --> 0:16:54.720 of that was if you've got a street that's in 0:16:54.760 --> 0:16:57.720 that ghost street, so it were, Yeah, every city has them. 0:16:57.760 --> 0:17:01.120 There's graffiti, there's a band in, car, stolen smash windows. 0:17:01.520 --> 0:17:04.119 You go in and tidy that place up, get rid 0:17:04.160 --> 0:17:07.920 of the graffiti, clear the banding cars, put lighting in there. 0:17:09.080 --> 0:17:12.159 I think that combination is not a bad way to 0:17:12.240 --> 0:17:15.520 approach approach crime. I know in New York that's where 0:17:15.560 --> 0:17:17.880 it sort of originated from. Did you see the benefits 0:17:17.880 --> 0:17:21.639 of that type of approach to reducing crime. 0:17:21.920 --> 0:17:24.000 I definitely saw the benefits because I also lived in 0:17:24.040 --> 0:17:27.680 the city, so I noticed it. I noticed that nobody. 0:17:27.359 --> 0:17:28.960 Was breaking it's felt safe going home. 0:17:29.280 --> 0:17:30.960 Yeah, that and it was a lot of the petty crime, 0:17:31.000 --> 0:17:32.520 like you know, when I was younger, you know I 0:17:32.520 --> 0:17:34.879 had this, It's pretty funny. I had my car. I 0:17:34.920 --> 0:17:37.040 was concerned with people stealing my radio because you know, 0:17:37.040 --> 0:17:38.480