WEBVTT - Donate Life part B 0:00:05.881 --> 0:00:07.281 Appogia production. 0:00:10.121 --> 0:00:13.521 Hi everyone, thank you for tuning back into Tenantus for Nurses. 0:00:13.601 --> 0:00:18.241 I suspect Woodbine here this season. I am so excited 0:00:18.281 --> 0:00:21.200 to announce that the podcast is being supported by Nutritia, 0:00:21.361 --> 0:00:25.761 which is a global leader in medical nutrition. They understand 0:00:25.801 --> 0:00:28.041 the needs of nurses in the nutrition space and for 0:00:28.121 --> 0:00:31.361 over one hundred and twenty five years have provided products 0:00:31.401 --> 0:00:35.681 to support child health. Some of Nutrita's pediatric brands include 0:00:35.841 --> 0:00:39.521 Neo Kate Junior for children who have food allergies and 0:00:39.561 --> 0:00:41.801 app to Grow for those fussy eaters. And those of 0:00:41.881 --> 0:00:45.681 us who have children know many kids who go through 0:00:45.721 --> 0:00:50.040 the phases of definite fussiness. For more information and resources, 0:00:50.281 --> 0:00:54.081 visit the nutritiona Pediatrics hub at nutritia dot com dot 0:00:54.121 --> 0:00:57.401 au forward slash Pediatrics. I just want to say a 0:00:57.561 --> 0:01:00.841 huge thank you to Nutritia. Their desire to support nurses 0:01:00.881 --> 0:01:04.121 is truly appreciated, and they are allowing me to continue 0:01:04.161 --> 0:01:07.001 this podcast so that we can all grow as nurses. 0:01:07.641 --> 0:01:10.641 This season, we have some amazing speakers in the pediatric 0:01:10.681 --> 0:01:13.961 space which I cannot wait to share with you all. Hi, 0:01:14.041 --> 0:01:17.121 my name's beck Woodbine, and welcome to Tenderness for nurses. 0:01:17.681 --> 0:01:21.720 I'm grateful for the person that I had the opportunity to. 0:01:21.761 --> 0:01:25.481 Be, so I hit it and parked it for Nelly 0:01:25.601 --> 0:01:26.121 four years. 0:01:26.801 --> 0:01:29.041 We always have free will, We always get to choose. 0:01:29.161 --> 0:01:30.920 We are autonomous. 0:01:31.441 --> 0:01:34.161 Hi everyone, thank you for tuning back in to Tenderness 0:01:34.161 --> 0:01:38.441 for Nurses. Today we have part B of our Donate 0:01:38.521 --> 0:01:41.560 Life Talk. I've just had a chat with Georgie who 0:01:41.601 --> 0:01:45.080 is the Donation Specialist nurse and coordinator, and now we 0:01:45.200 --> 0:01:47.481 have got a chat with Justine Holloway, who is the 0:01:47.521 --> 0:01:53.240 acting nurse services manager for Donate Life in Victoria. Hi Justine, Hello, 0:01:53.361 --> 0:01:56.041 thank you for having me. Oh, thank you so much 0:01:56.081 --> 0:01:57.921 for coming on. I know you guys are busy and 0:01:57.961 --> 0:02:00.800 we'd booked this a little way out, but I truly 0:02:00.841 --> 0:02:04.041 truly appreciate you taking the time to come on and 0:02:04.281 --> 0:02:06.881 have a chat with us about your role and what 0:02:06.961 --> 0:02:10.081 you do. So I suppose a good way to start 0:02:10.281 --> 0:02:12.761 is give us a little bit of info on your 0:02:12.801 --> 0:02:15.361 background and how you've ended up where you are with 0:02:15.481 --> 0:02:16.281 Donate Life. 0:02:16.841 --> 0:02:20.721 Absolutely so. I started my nursing career nearly twenty years 0:02:20.800 --> 0:02:24.121 or so ago and initially worked in medical and surgical 0:02:24.281 --> 0:02:28.321 settings before moving into intensive care and it was in 0:02:28.361 --> 0:02:32.161 the intensive care unit that I had exposure to people 0:02:32.161 --> 0:02:34.680 who were going to become an organ donor and also 0:02:34.881 --> 0:02:37.561 people who had received a transplant and are in the 0:02:37.561 --> 0:02:42.881 intensive care recovering after their transplant operation. And it was 0:02:42.921 --> 0:02:47.481 through that experience that I became really interested in the 0:02:47.601 --> 0:02:51.241 organ and tissue donation space and the roles such as 0:02:51.281 --> 0:02:54.400 what you've just heard from Georgie, and then moved into 0:02:54.441 --> 0:02:58.561 working for Donate Life. So initially I started working as 0:02:58.561 --> 0:03:02.041 a donation specialist nurse similar to what Georgia was doing, 0:03:02.441 --> 0:03:05.081 and then moved into a management. 0:03:05.960 --> 0:03:09.241 So do you manage the nursing stuff or manage the 0:03:09.321 --> 0:03:13.561 donation retrieve, all the donation all of that side of things. 0:03:14.281 --> 0:03:17.841 Yeah, So the nursing manager role within Donate Life we 0:03:17.921 --> 0:03:22.561 manage the donation specialist nurses and they are at the 0:03:22.601 --> 0:03:26.601 front line of facilitating organ tissue donation where we then 0:03:26.680 --> 0:03:30.001 work closely with the transplant teams and intensive care units 0:03:30.001 --> 0:03:33.961 and a number of different groups to provide the organ 0:03:34.001 --> 0:03:37.921 tissue donation service in Victoria. So from my current role 0:03:37.961 --> 0:03:42.441 acting in the Nursing Services manager position, we are liaising 0:03:42.481 --> 0:03:46.361 with the Organ and Tissue Authority in Canberra. The Department 0:03:46.361 --> 0:03:50.921 of Health in Victoria, the health services within Victoria where 0:03:50.961 --> 0:03:55.081 we have donation specialist nurses employed, and the number of 0:03:55.161 --> 0:03:58.841 other key stakeholders that enable us to do our work. 0:03:59.521 --> 0:04:01.201 How many nurses do you employ. 0:04:02.441 --> 0:04:06.281 We have nurses based in the metro settings in addition 0:04:06.361 --> 0:04:10.801 to regional settings, so there's up to about thirty oh 0:04:10.841 --> 0:04:14.641 donation specialist nurses. Yeah, based in fourteen health services. 0:04:15.161 --> 0:04:17.921 And do you DA's with the other states as well. 0:04:18.801 --> 0:04:22.161 Yeah, we do, so the donation nurses will definitely be 0:04:22.241 --> 0:04:27.520 liaising with the transplant teams in other jurisdictions. From a 0:04:27.601 --> 0:04:31.641 nursing manager role, we do liaise with other nursing managers 0:04:32.121 --> 0:04:34.841 together so we can be working together on matters that 0:04:34.880 --> 0:04:37.401 are relevant to all of us and to deliver the 0:04:37.440 --> 0:04:39.880 strategic plan of the augmented authority. 0:04:40.961 --> 0:04:44.640 So in a nutshell, can you explain your role is 0:04:44.721 --> 0:04:47.880 management of nursing stuff, but you also do a fivoit 0:04:47.880 --> 0:04:48.841 of other things as well. 0:04:49.921 --> 0:04:53.481 Yes, quite a diverse role which isn't disimilar to the 0:04:53.601 --> 0:04:58.760 donation nursing role as well. It's dynamic, it's diverse. No, 0:04:58.880 --> 0:05:01.361 two days are often the same. We also perform the 0:05:01.401 --> 0:05:05.441 manager on call role, so that is overseeing the staff 0:05:05.761 --> 0:05:09.640 and the logistics when we have donation cases occurring in Victoria, 0:05:09.681 --> 0:05:12.761 to identify where staff need to be and when they 0:05:12.801 --> 0:05:14.881 need to be relieved and have someone else to come 0:05:14.921 --> 0:05:18.080 and take over. So we perform that role as well. 0:05:18.761 --> 0:05:22.801 Do you look after the transplant team or is that 0:05:22.961 --> 0:05:24.001 completely separate? 0:05:24.801 --> 0:05:27.841 No, they are separate, but we do work closely with them. 0:05:28.401 --> 0:05:31.601 We're really only half of the journey. Really, You're on 0:05:31.641 --> 0:05:35.321 the donation side, and then when our part has finished, 0:05:35.401 --> 0:05:38.201 that's the halfway mark, and then that's when the transplant 0:05:38.201 --> 0:05:42.561 teams have a more active role than in transplanting the 0:05:42.641 --> 0:05:45.401 recipients who are waiting on the waiting list and providing 0:05:45.440 --> 0:05:47.361 that ongoing care to them. 0:05:47.841 --> 0:05:52.041 So one of your roles is care of your specialist nurses, 0:05:52.561 --> 0:05:56.281 which I'm assuming you would take very very seriously due 0:05:56.281 --> 0:05:59.681 to the type of work that you're all doing. What 0:05:59.721 --> 0:06:01.841 are some of the strategies you have in place for 0:06:02.481 --> 0:06:03.320 caring for them. 0:06:04.281 --> 0:06:07.161 Yeah. Absolutely, It's a really important point and a key 0:06:07.241 --> 0:06:11.080 focus for the nursing management team because it is the 0:06:11.201 --> 0:06:15.001 nature of the donation specialist nursing role. It is very dynamic, 0:06:15.041 --> 0:06:19.681 it is very unpredictable. It is also challenging at times, 0:06:19.681 --> 0:06:23.400 but they're also incredibly rewarding. There's two key components of 0:06:23.481 --> 0:06:28.121 the donation specialist nursing role, So they could be facilitating 0:06:28.121 --> 0:06:32.241 a donation case anywhere within Victoria and the next day 0:06:32.281 --> 0:06:37.441 they're sitting in hospital meetings or educating staff or collecting data. 0:06:38.161 --> 0:06:41.681 It's a very diverse role that they perform, so from 0:06:41.681 --> 0:06:44.681 a management perspective, we meet with them regularly to find 0:06:44.801 --> 0:06:47.440 out how they're going, how they're progressing with their hospital work, 0:06:47.961 --> 0:06:52.201 talk about clinical cases that they've been involved in, understand 0:06:52.281 --> 0:06:54.281 anything else that's on their mind that we need to 0:06:54.320 --> 0:07:00.201 work together to support. We have a clinical psychotherapist who 0:07:00.241 --> 0:07:02.841 is available to all of the team to speak to. 0:07:04.041 --> 0:07:06.760 We try and or that there are forums where the 0:07:06.761 --> 0:07:09.641 team can get together and just talk to each other, 0:07:09.961 --> 0:07:14.641 just discuss cases. We've implemented a reflective Practice meeting where 0:07:14.801 --> 0:07:20.361 conversations with families can be discussed. We have other forums, 0:07:20.401 --> 0:07:24.281 such as the Donation and Transplant Coordinator Forum where we 0:07:24.321 --> 0:07:27.881 can get together with our transplant colleagues and talk about cases. 0:07:28.721 --> 0:07:32.681 It's really such an individual component of what each person 0:07:32.801 --> 0:07:35.681 needs and we try and be really in tune with that. 0:07:36.601 --> 0:07:39.721 In addition to a couple of years ago, we implemented 0:07:39.761 --> 0:07:43.801 a professional success program as well, which is looking at 0:07:44.121 --> 0:07:47.401 the development of the team. So we had a component 0:07:47.521 --> 0:07:51.641 of self reflective assessments, the DISC profile, which you might 0:07:51.681 --> 0:07:55.481 be familiar with, looking at different communications styles, and then 0:07:55.521 --> 0:07:59.361 we did worked with Gallop where the team did another 0:07:59.441 --> 0:08:02.241 self assessment tool to really look at what they're good at, 0:08:02.921 --> 0:08:06.881 what's particularly great around and Gallop, which is a global 0:08:06.921 --> 0:08:10.561 analytics company looking at a whole range of topics relevant 0:08:10.601 --> 0:08:15.601 to management and supporting your team. They say it's about 0:08:15.681 --> 0:08:18.681 finding out what people are good at, not what's wrong 0:08:18.721 --> 0:08:22.121 with them, And I think that's really important in this 0:08:22.241 --> 0:08:25.201 line of work, to find out what makes people tick, 0:08:25.521 --> 0:08:29.601 giving them opportunities to work on components within their role 0:08:29.641 --> 0:08:32.321 that are aligned to that. So we did the DISK 0:08:32.401 --> 0:08:35.961 self assessment, and we did the Gallop self assessment, and 0:08:36.001 --> 0:08:40.001 the next part of this professional success program is looking 0:08:40.041 --> 0:08:43.321 at different development pathways that people may be interested in 0:08:44.041 --> 0:08:49.241 management or education, a clinical focus, being more involved in 0:08:49.441 --> 0:08:54.241 the follow up of donor families. So not only did 0:08:54.241 --> 0:08:57.161 the team focus on their primary role that you'll see 0:08:57.201 --> 0:09:00.721 outline in their position description, but we also ensure that 0:09:00.881 --> 0:09:05.161 we have robust processes for well being and development. And 0:09:05.761 --> 0:09:08.401 so people have options depending on what they need. It's 0:09:08.481 --> 0:09:13.001 quite an individualized approach which we then support. 0:09:13.321 --> 0:09:16.241 When it comes to the families. How long do you 0:09:16.281 --> 0:09:17.841 do follow up support for them? 0:09:19.241 --> 0:09:22.361 Yeah, so the donor coordinator has that initial follow up 0:09:22.801 --> 0:09:25.521 when their loved one has become a donor. And then 0:09:25.521 --> 0:09:29.321 we have a donor Family Support coordinator whose role is 0:09:29.361 --> 0:09:32.721 focused on an ongoing support of families and it really 0:09:32.921 --> 0:09:35.641 is dependent on what they would like, what their needs are. 0:09:36.401 --> 0:09:39.601 And Michelle Skinner is our Donor Family Support coordination, does 0:09:39.641 --> 0:09:46.241 a brilliant job in maintaining that contact, especially anniversaries. Donor 0:09:46.281 --> 0:09:48.961 families are invited to come to a service of remembrance 0:09:49.041 --> 0:09:52.401 every year as well, so that it really is based 0:09:52.441 --> 0:09:55.161 on what a family would like in terms of that 0:09:55.281 --> 0:09:57.761 ongoing support from Donut Life. 0:09:58.081 --> 0:10:00.161 And I'm assuming you would ask them what they want. 0:10:00.881 --> 0:10:01.881 Yes, absolutely. 0:10:02.841 --> 0:10:07.401 And do you have regular meetings with your team so 0:10:08.241 --> 0:10:11.521 you know how sometimes someone has trouble, they're starting to 0:10:11.521 --> 0:10:14.721 get burnt out. You don't have insight, but you can 0:10:14.721 --> 0:10:17.881 tell something's a bit off with them. Do you watch 0:10:17.921 --> 0:10:23.121 your team on that level, or social worker or a psychotherapist, 0:10:23.841 --> 0:10:25.961 you know you're always keeping an eye on your team. 0:10:26.961 --> 0:10:29.801 Yeah, absolutely, and I think this is where when we 0:10:29.841 --> 0:10:32.321 meet with them. A big part of it, I think 0:10:32.441 --> 0:10:36.521 is really building a working relationship with the team, so 0:10:36.601 --> 0:10:40.321 there is that open communication so the team feel comfortable 0:10:40.321 --> 0:10:43.361 to let us know when they're starting to feel like 0:10:43.401 --> 0:10:45.921 they need a bit of a break, or ensuring that 0:10:45.961 --> 0:10:49.001 they have a proactive leave plan throughout the year, things 0:10:49.161 --> 0:10:51.921 like that, so we can be intoe with where people 0:10:51.921 --> 0:10:53.321 are at and what they may need. 0:10:54.681 --> 0:10:58.001 That's so important. Actually, I was just chatting about that 0:10:58.121 --> 0:11:02.241 with Georgie, and Georgie made comment about how important it 0:11:02.441 --> 0:11:05.201 was for her own self care to make sure that 0:11:05.281 --> 0:11:08.521 she had regular holidays. And even though it's great to 0:11:08.601 --> 0:11:11.601 save it up for a big trip, I do think 0:11:11.641 --> 0:11:14.361 you need to sometimes break it up a little bit 0:11:15.161 --> 0:11:19.481 and have something to look forward to and in a 0:11:19.561 --> 0:11:24.321 role that it's not just physical but highly emotive. I 0:11:24.361 --> 0:11:25.361 think that's so important. 0:11:25.401 --> 0:11:29.241 Yeah, yeah, no, I completely agree. And when the team 0:11:29.281 --> 0:11:32.481 are around death and dying and they're providing so much 0:11:32.521 --> 0:11:36.841 empathy to the families that they meet, keeping that focus 0:11:36.881 --> 0:11:39.241 on self care is so important. And I know there's 0:11:39.281 --> 0:11:43.441 different words out therefore, you know, detached empathy or empathy 0:11:43.441 --> 0:11:46.561 without absorption, or this way of being able to care 0:11:46.641 --> 0:11:50.681 for families so genuinely but also preserving that self care. 0:11:51.321 --> 0:11:53.641 And I think that's a skill when it's not something 0:11:53.681 --> 0:11:57.881 that comes instantaneously, but it is something that the team 0:11:57.961 --> 0:12:00.681 develop over time, and we absolutely want to support the 0:12:00.721 --> 0:12:03.241 team to develop those skills. And I think when different 0:12:03.321 --> 0:12:06.081 peers are talking to each other, they can share those 0:12:06.081 --> 0:12:10.441 strategies that they have developed for themselves as well. I 0:12:10.481 --> 0:12:12.681 think that that is it's really important. 0:12:13.441 --> 0:12:16.521 So can you say those terms again around empathy. 0:12:17.481 --> 0:12:20.481 Yeah, so there's different ones out there, but they all 0:12:20.561 --> 0:12:24.881 mean a similar thing around detached empathy or empathy without absorption. 0:12:25.681 --> 0:12:28.601 Before coming on here, just to look for a really 0:12:28.601 --> 0:12:32.841 clear definition of empathy the ability to understand and share 0:12:32.881 --> 0:12:36.601 feelings of others, but doing that in a way when 0:12:36.641 --> 0:12:39.801 you're in a profession such as this where you're not 0:12:39.881 --> 0:12:43.481 taking on everybody's grief because there's a lot of it 0:12:44.161 --> 0:12:47.961 and at the same time you're still human. So there's 0:12:48.001 --> 0:12:51.361 definitely a skill working in this particular profession and other 0:12:51.441 --> 0:12:55.601 professions in health as well, or ambulance workers, you know, microparamedics, 0:12:55.641 --> 0:13:00.201 and there's aspects of this role that it's raw, it's 0:13:00.201 --> 0:13:03.681 really raw, and I think sometimes there are families that 0:13:03.801 --> 0:13:06.841 the team will talk to and just maybe something relatable 0:13:06.961 --> 0:13:11.081 about that particular patient or that family where it just 0:13:11.161 --> 0:13:15.121 catches you a little bit more. And having that awareness 0:13:15.121 --> 0:13:18.121 of self to know when that's happened and how to 0:13:18.201 --> 0:13:21.241 navigate that. Is there a need to step away and 0:13:21.281 --> 0:13:23.921 someone else to come in and be involved, but it's 0:13:23.961 --> 0:13:27.161 also what's happening in the team's life outside of work. 0:13:27.201 --> 0:13:30.281 You know, life can sometimes throw some pretty significant. 0:13:29.681 --> 0:13:32.441 Curve polls, absolutely, and when. 0:13:32.321 --> 0:13:35.401 You're in a role such as this, I think sometimes 0:13:35.441 --> 0:13:38.001 it can have more of an impact depending on what 0:13:38.041 --> 0:13:40.761 the day looks like and what the donation that's may 0:13:40.801 --> 0:13:42.961 be required to do on that day. You know, are 0:13:43.001 --> 0:13:45.401 they on call for the statewide service and they've got 0:13:45.441 --> 0:13:48.881 something else going on, and navigating that in a way 0:13:49.281 --> 0:13:53.681 that still supports everybody with what they need with what's 0:13:53.721 --> 0:13:54.441 going on for them. 0:13:55.201 --> 0:13:57.721 When you go in and have a chat with a family, 0:13:58.321 --> 0:14:00.361 you know, you're talking about the end of life for 0:14:00.441 --> 0:14:04.361 a loved one, there's been a traumatic incident. Emotions are 0:14:04.481 --> 0:14:09.441 really high at that time. How do you bring it 0:14:09.641 --> 0:14:16.001 down so that you can have a viable conversation because 0:14:16.441 --> 0:14:18.961 I know what I'm really upset, I might only keep 0:14:19.201 --> 0:14:22.241 tying a little bit of information. How do you go 0:14:22.321 --> 0:14:27.241 about that? Is it numerous conversations, numerous visits with that family? 0:14:27.921 --> 0:14:32.041 How do you bring the emotions down and allow for 0:14:32.961 --> 0:14:34.161 an informed consent. 0:14:35.361 --> 0:14:39.081 It's a good question, and the donation nurses have communication 0:14:39.241 --> 0:14:44.801 training for facilitating conversations regarding donation. A big part of 0:14:44.841 --> 0:14:47.561 it is working closely with the treating team at the 0:14:47.601 --> 0:14:51.241 health service to understand what's happening for this family, what 0:14:51.321 --> 0:14:54.961 other dynamics might be there are their family that need 0:14:55.001 --> 0:14:58.081 to travel from into state or overseas, or how long 0:14:58.081 --> 0:15:00.881 has their loved one been in the intensive care unit? 0:15:00.921 --> 0:15:05.001 For example? What information can the donation nurse gather before 0:15:05.161 --> 0:15:10.281 walking into the family meeting to best care and provide information, 0:15:11.041 --> 0:15:14.001 but learn about their loved one and understand what is 0:15:14.041 --> 0:15:17.681 important for them regarding end of life and organ and 0:15:17.721 --> 0:15:21.241 tissue donation has been a part of that. Sometimes it's 0:15:21.281 --> 0:15:24.521 a number of conversations, sometimes it might be only one. 0:15:25.201 --> 0:15:29.441 It really is based on the family and what they need. 0:15:30.201 --> 0:15:37.441 It must be highly confronting to think about someone keeping 0:15:37.481 --> 0:15:41.001 a loved one alive. To take out different organs of 0:15:41.041 --> 0:15:44.121 their body, and I would assume that one of the 0:15:44.241 --> 0:15:47.961 questions would be what happens after that, So. 0:15:47.961 --> 0:15:51.681 Donate life are only ever involved once there's been a 0:15:51.761 --> 0:15:55.281 transition in the patient's care to end of life, and 0:15:55.761 --> 0:16:00.241 part of that conversation is understanding what's happened to their 0:16:00.321 --> 0:16:03.041 loved one and understanding why there's been that transition to 0:16:03.241 --> 0:16:06.561 end of life and ensuring that there is an understanding 0:16:07.041 --> 0:16:10.201 or an acceptance that there is that transition to end 0:16:10.281 --> 0:16:14.641 of life care before donation is ever raised. And then 0:16:14.721 --> 0:16:19.241 part of raising donation is understanding the wishes of their 0:16:19.281 --> 0:16:21.521 loved one and what they would have wanted. And I 0:16:21.521 --> 0:16:25.561 think for the team, when the family are aware what 0:16:25.601 --> 0:16:27.961 their loved one would have wanted in terms of donation, 0:16:28.801 --> 0:16:32.921 that's a different experience to when they're completely unaware of 0:16:33.041 --> 0:16:36.761 what their donation isshes may be. And that's a big 0:16:36.761 --> 0:16:40.441 part of the media and communications teams within the Organance 0:16:40.481 --> 0:16:44.961 Issue Donation Network to raise awareness around donation and to 0:16:45.081 --> 0:16:47.641 encourage people to register their wishes and to have a 0:16:47.681 --> 0:16:50.601 conversation with their loved one. So if they're ever in 0:16:50.641 --> 0:16:55.641 this position where they need to talk about donation, they 0:16:55.721 --> 0:16:58.161 have confidence in knowing what their loved one would have wanted. 0:16:59.361 --> 0:17:04.761 It must be highly confronting to be sitting in a 0:17:04.840 --> 0:17:10.041 room someone's just loved ones just had a traumatic incident. Yeah, 0:17:10.080 --> 0:17:14.401 and then you're being asked the question about organ donation. 0:17:15.201 --> 0:17:20.761 Are we in Australia the only country that does organization 0:17:21.481 --> 0:17:25.241 as a donation like in the States, is organs paid for? 0:17:26.521 --> 0:17:32.200 No, that's certainly in Australia. There's no financial incentive for 0:17:32.360 --> 0:17:36.120 anyone to pursue organic tissue donation. It's very much an 0:17:36.201 --> 0:17:40.920 altimistic gift and it's very rare. There's only two percent 0:17:41.160 --> 0:17:43.801 of patients that die in a way where organ issue 0:17:43.801 --> 0:17:49.041 donation is possible. There's a very very rare set of 0:17:49.080 --> 0:17:54.080 circumstances where donation can be discussed with a family just 0:17:54.160 --> 0:17:56.120 sept that's what their life one would have wanted. 0:17:57.241 --> 0:18:00.961 So overseas in those places, do people pay for organs? 0:18:02.281 --> 0:18:05.520 Not to my knowledge, but I'm not across the across 0:18:05.561 --> 0:18:09.801 the details of what happens in each major country and 0:18:09.840 --> 0:18:12.600 how they facility. You know what their donation program looks. 0:18:12.481 --> 0:18:17.521 Like because I remember being a student nurse at PA 0:18:17.880 --> 0:18:22.441 when doctor Strong set up the liver transplant unit and 0:18:22.761 --> 0:18:24.880 they started doing their first liver transplants. Now that was 0:18:24.921 --> 0:18:29.001 back in nineteen eighty eight eighty nine, and then, I 0:18:29.041 --> 0:18:32.241 mean I was too young and stupid within as a 0:18:32.321 --> 0:18:35.521 nurse and for any theaters to go into those theaters, 0:18:35.961 --> 0:18:41.161 but I can remember looking in in absolute awe of 0:18:41.321 --> 0:18:46.440 what they were doing and how remarkable they were. And 0:18:46.481 --> 0:18:48.360 then once I went, I did some work at the 0:18:48.400 --> 0:18:50.640 Royal Children's and you know, there were a couple of 0:18:50.681 --> 0:18:55.600 incidences where I was a scrub nurse there, but it 0:18:55.640 --> 0:18:57.840 felt like it was such a privilege to even be 0:18:57.880 --> 0:19:00.721 around it, let alone be part of it, you know, 0:19:01.640 --> 0:19:04.281 And you guys must feel that on a daily basis. 0:19:05.241 --> 0:19:08.401 Yeah, And I think it's we'll see, you know, how 0:19:08.400 --> 0:19:10.721 many patients may have been you know, may have received 0:19:10.721 --> 0:19:15.840 a transplant, live a transplant, or the national numbers to 0:19:15.840 --> 0:19:18.400 see how many lives have been saved. But when you 0:19:18.481 --> 0:19:22.480 actually talk to someone who has had the experience of 0:19:22.561 --> 0:19:26.201 being on the waiting list, waiting for this call because 0:19:26.201 --> 0:19:30.801 their own organ is failing, and just that uncertainty to 0:19:31.160 --> 0:19:35.001 hopefully receiving a call that a transplant is available to 0:19:35.080 --> 0:19:38.241 them and then their recovery. But I guess thinking about 0:19:38.281 --> 0:19:41.241 what that means for them, but it's also much broader 0:19:41.281 --> 0:19:43.921 than that in terms of what that means for their family, 0:19:44.360 --> 0:19:46.521 what that means for their children, or what that means 0:19:46.561 --> 0:19:49.521 for their spouse or their parents and their friends, or 0:19:49.561 --> 0:19:52.240 being able to get back to work. You know, it 0:19:52.281 --> 0:19:55.561 often has such a significant impact on their day to 0:19:55.640 --> 0:19:58.440 day quality of life and the relationships around them that 0:19:59.160 --> 0:20:02.200 when you hear a recipient tell their story, it's so 0:20:02.360 --> 0:20:07.481 incredibly moving because they're their story has often started many 0:20:07.521 --> 0:20:11.600 many months before they've received a transplanting and you're hearing 0:20:11.640 --> 0:20:14.721 them talk about the impact that it's had on them. 0:20:15.080 --> 0:20:20.441 It certainly puts into perspective the fragility of life. Absolutely 0:20:20.721 --> 0:20:23.321 not getting caught up in you know sometimes just things 0:20:23.321 --> 0:20:26.321 that we just get a bit stuck on sometimes and 0:20:26.441 --> 0:20:29.120 you only need to listen to someone share their story, 0:20:29.840 --> 0:20:32.801 be that a don't the family or a transplant recipient, 0:20:32.880 --> 0:20:36.401 to just help your refocus a little bit sometimes on 0:20:37.600 --> 0:20:40.600 what truly is important and what the connections and the 0:20:40.681 --> 0:20:42.080 relationships around you me. 0:20:43.481 --> 0:20:47.961 How do you look after yourself because you're also looking 0:20:48.001 --> 0:20:52.880 after said nurses as well as you know, other avenues 0:20:52.921 --> 0:20:56.240 of your career and your job, But how do you 0:20:56.281 --> 0:20:57.001 look after you. 0:20:58.001 --> 0:21:00.360 Yeah, I think because I'm now in a role where 0:21:00.400 --> 0:21:05.321 I'm removed from the frontline stuff, so to speak. I 0:21:05.441 --> 0:21:09.641 see my role and where I get my self care 0:21:09.761 --> 0:21:13.761 from is doing all I can to set up a 0:21:13.921 --> 0:21:17.400 work environment for the team that supports them. I feel 0:21:17.400 --> 0:21:20.761 that sense of responsibility to make sure that they have 0:21:20.840 --> 0:21:23.960 everything they need to do their job well and to 0:21:24.041 --> 0:21:27.840 care for themselves. And I guess from my perspective that 0:21:27.961 --> 0:21:31.921 may be looking at our workforce planning or different things 0:21:31.961 --> 0:21:34.441 like that which enable us to staff the roster well 0:21:34.521 --> 0:21:36.801 so people do get breaks and there's more options for 0:21:37.120 --> 0:21:41.121 more people that have leave or that's where I focus 0:21:41.201 --> 0:21:45.920 my attention and I feel a real sensive responsibility. And 0:21:45.961 --> 0:21:49.241 then outside of work, I try and ensure that I 0:21:49.360 --> 0:21:52.880 prioritize doing the things that help me recharge my batteries, 0:21:52.961 --> 0:21:55.440 be that spending the time with my family or you know, 0:21:55.521 --> 0:21:59.160 just having the odd weekend away. And this is also 0:21:59.201 --> 0:22:02.400 where I've really enjoyed the work that we're putting into 0:22:02.441 --> 0:22:05.360 the strengths, finding out what our strengths are, because not 0:22:05.400 --> 0:22:07.761 only did the team do that, but the nursing management 0:22:07.761 --> 0:22:10.641 team did that as well. So those times where you're 0:22:10.681 --> 0:22:13.920 just feeling a little bit stuck on something or just 0:22:13.961 --> 0:22:16.801 feeling a bit low. I often will look at the 0:22:16.921 --> 0:22:20.201 report that is about me and I look at key 0:22:20.241 --> 0:22:22.080 things in there that I think, Oh, what else can 0:22:22.120 --> 0:22:23.841 I focus on? You know what else can I look? 0:22:23.880 --> 0:22:27.281 I love learning, so maybe it's listening to a podcast 0:22:27.441 --> 0:22:31.521 or I think that self awareness of knowing what you 0:22:31.640 --> 0:22:34.121 need to take care of yourself is so important because 0:22:34.160 --> 0:22:37.280 it's different for everybody. What works for me may not 0:22:37.321 --> 0:22:40.200 be effective for someone else. And I think this is 0:22:40.241 --> 0:22:42.920 the other part of not only my role, but the 0:22:42.961 --> 0:22:45.721 other nursing manage your roles and the donation nursing team 0:22:45.801 --> 0:22:49.840 that you know there's senior nursing positions, because we need 0:22:49.880 --> 0:22:54.121 people to have those self care strategies to take care 0:22:54.801 --> 0:22:58.840 of themselves even the work that we're involved in, either 0:22:58.880 --> 0:23:02.960 directly or indirectly, to have those skills to perform this 0:23:03.441 --> 0:23:06.801 work not only as actively as best as what they can, 0:23:06.840 --> 0:23:11.000 but a huge part of this is having developed strategies 0:23:11.001 --> 0:23:11.720 for self. 0:23:11.441 --> 0:23:16.120 Care and care for others. And I would assume to 0:23:16.241 --> 0:23:21.400 some degree, at some stage all of you have either 0:23:21.441 --> 0:23:26.561 felt some degree of moral injury or vicarious trauma in 0:23:26.640 --> 0:23:32.641 your role and having a psychotherapist, social worker on your 0:23:32.681 --> 0:23:36.321 team would be wonderful to speak to, but often you 0:23:36.400 --> 0:23:41.680 don't realize that's occurred until after the fact. Are there 0:23:41.721 --> 0:23:47.121 times when someone comes in to ICU and it's such 0:23:47.160 --> 0:23:50.601 a traumatic event that you just once it's dealt with, 0:23:50.761 --> 0:23:54.120 you're like, okay, debrief, we've got to really look after you. 0:23:54.160 --> 0:23:54.840 Does that happen? 0:23:55.801 --> 0:23:58.840 Yeah, that does happen. Definitely happens, and not only just 0:23:59.001 --> 0:24:03.880 for the donation team, but we often will then work 0:24:03.921 --> 0:24:06.360 with the stuff that have been involved at the health 0:24:06.360 --> 0:24:10.520 service to facilitate whether it be a clinical debrief, so 0:24:10.521 --> 0:24:14.321 they understand what may have happened before they were rostered 0:24:14.360 --> 0:24:16.761 on and were involved, or what happened after they had 0:24:16.840 --> 0:24:18.801 left and they went on some days off, or whatever 0:24:18.801 --> 0:24:21.841 the case might be, and understanding what the need is 0:24:22.201 --> 0:24:24.561