Speaker 1: Appogia production.
Speaker 2: Hi everyone, thank you for tuning back into Tenantus for Nurses.
Speaker 2: I suspect Woodbine here this season. I am so excited
Speaker 2: to announce that the podcast is being supported by Nutritia,
Speaker 2: which is a global leader in medical nutrition. They understand
Speaker 2: the needs of nurses in the nutrition space and for
Speaker 2: over one hundred and twenty five years have provided products
Speaker 2: to support child health. Some of Nutrita's pediatric brands include
Speaker 2: Neo Kate Junior for children who have food allergies and
Speaker 2: app to Grow for those fussy eaters. And those of
Speaker 2: us who have children know many kids who go through
Speaker 2: the phases of definite fussiness. For more information and resources,
Speaker 2: visit the nutritiona Pediatrics hub at nutritia dot com dot
Speaker 2: au forward slash Pediatrics. I just want to say a
Speaker 2: huge thank you to Nutritia. Their desire to support nurses
Speaker 2: is truly appreciated, and they are allowing me to continue
Speaker 2: this podcast so that we can all grow as nurses.
Speaker 2: This season, we have some amazing speakers in the pediatric
Speaker 2: space which I cannot wait to share with you all. Hi,
Speaker 2: my name's beck Woodbine, and welcome to Tenderness for nurses.
Speaker 2: I'm grateful for the person that I had the opportunity to.
Speaker 1: Be, so I hit it and parked it for Nelly
Speaker 1: four years.
Speaker 2: We always have free will, We always get to choose.
Speaker 1: We are autonomous.
Speaker 2: Hi everyone, thank you for tuning back in to Tenderness
Speaker 2: for Nurses. Today we have part B of our Donate
Speaker 2: Life Talk. I've just had a chat with Georgie who
Speaker 2: is the Donation Specialist nurse and coordinator, and now we
Speaker 2: have got a chat with Justine Holloway, who is the
Speaker 2: acting nurse services manager for Donate Life in Victoria. Hi Justine, Hello,
Speaker 2: thank you for having me. Oh, thank you so much
Speaker 2: for coming on. I know you guys are busy and
Speaker 2: we'd booked this a little way out, but I truly
Speaker 2: truly appreciate you taking the time to come on and
Speaker 2: have a chat with us about your role and what
Speaker 2: you do. So I suppose a good way to start
Speaker 2: is give us a little bit of info on your
Speaker 2: background and how you've ended up where you are with
Speaker 2: Donate Life.
Speaker 1: Absolutely so. I started my nursing career nearly twenty years
Speaker 1: or so ago and initially worked in medical and surgical
Speaker 1: settings before moving into intensive care and it was in
Speaker 1: the intensive care unit that I had exposure to people
Speaker 1: who were going to become an organ donor and also
Speaker 1: people who had received a transplant and are in the
Speaker 1: intensive care recovering after their transplant operation. And it was
Speaker 1: through that experience that I became really interested in the
Speaker 1: organ and tissue donation space and the roles such as
Speaker 1: what you've just heard from Georgie, and then moved into
Speaker 1: working for Donate Life. So initially I started working as
Speaker 1: a donation specialist nurse similar to what Georgia was doing,
Speaker 1: and then moved into a management.
Speaker 2: So do you manage the nursing stuff or manage the
Speaker 2: donation retrieve, all the donation all of that side of things.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So the nursing manager role within Donate Life we
Speaker 1: manage the donation specialist nurses and they are at the
Speaker 1: front line of facilitating organ tissue donation where we then
Speaker 1: work closely with the transplant teams and intensive care units
Speaker 1: and a number of different groups to provide the organ
Speaker 1: tissue donation service in Victoria. So from my current role
Speaker 1: acting in the Nursing Services manager position, we are liaising
Speaker 1: with the Organ and Tissue Authority in Canberra. The Department
Speaker 1: of Health in Victoria, the health services within Victoria where
Speaker 1: we have donation specialist nurses employed, and the number of
Speaker 1: other key stakeholders that enable us to do our work.
Speaker 2: How many nurses do you employ.
Speaker 1: We have nurses based in the metro settings in addition
Speaker 1: to regional settings, so there's up to about thirty oh
Speaker 1: donation specialist nurses. Yeah, based in fourteen health services.
Speaker 2: And do you DA's with the other states as well.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we do, so the donation nurses will definitely be
Speaker 1: liaising with the transplant teams in other jurisdictions. From a
Speaker 1: nursing manager role, we do liaise with other nursing managers
Speaker 1: together so we can be working together on matters that
Speaker 1: are relevant to all of us and to deliver the
Speaker 1: strategic plan of the augmented authority.
Speaker 2: So in a nutshell, can you explain your role is
Speaker 2: management of nursing stuff, but you also do a fivoit
Speaker 2: of other things as well.
Speaker 1: Yes, quite a diverse role which isn't disimilar to the
Speaker 1: donation nursing role as well. It's dynamic, it's diverse. No,
Speaker 1: two days are often the same. We also perform the
Speaker 1: manager on call role, so that is overseeing the staff
Speaker 1: and the logistics when we have donation cases occurring in Victoria,
Speaker 1: to identify where staff need to be and when they
Speaker 1: need to be relieved and have someone else to come
Speaker 1: and take over. So we perform that role as well.
Speaker 2: Do you look after the transplant team or is that
Speaker 2: completely separate?
Speaker 1: No, they are separate, but we do work closely with them.
Speaker 1: We're really only half of the journey. Really, You're on
Speaker 1: the donation side, and then when our part has finished,
Speaker 1: that's the halfway mark, and then that's when the transplant
Speaker 1: teams have a more active role than in transplanting the
Speaker 1: recipients who are waiting on the waiting list and providing
Speaker 1: that ongoing care to them.
Speaker 2: So one of your roles is care of your specialist nurses,
Speaker 2: which I'm assuming you would take very very seriously due
Speaker 2: to the type of work that you're all doing. What
Speaker 2: are some of the strategies you have in place for
Speaker 2: caring for them.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Absolutely, It's a really important point and a key
Speaker 1: focus for the nursing management team because it is the
Speaker 1: nature of the donation specialist nursing role. It is very dynamic,
Speaker 1: it is very unpredictable. It is also challenging at times,
Speaker 1: but they're also incredibly rewarding. There's two key components of
Speaker 1: the donation specialist nursing role, So they could be facilitating
Speaker 1: a donation case anywhere within Victoria and the next day
Speaker 1: they're sitting in hospital meetings or educating staff or collecting data.
Speaker 1: It's a very diverse role that they perform, so from
Speaker 1: a management perspective, we meet with them regularly to find
Speaker 1: out how they're going, how they're progressing with their hospital work,
Speaker 1: talk about clinical cases that they've been involved in, understand
Speaker 1: anything else that's on their mind that we need to
Speaker 1: work together to support. We have a clinical psychotherapist who
Speaker 1: is available to all of the team to speak to.
Speaker 1: We try and or that there are forums where the
Speaker 1: team can get together and just talk to each other,
Speaker 1: just discuss cases. We've implemented a reflective Practice meeting where
Speaker 1: conversations with families can be discussed. We have other forums,
Speaker 1: such as the Donation and Transplant Coordinator Forum where we
Speaker 1: can get together with our transplant colleagues and talk about cases.
Speaker 1: It's really such an individual component of what each person
Speaker 1: needs and we try and be really in tune with that.
Speaker 1: In addition to a couple of years ago, we implemented
Speaker 1: a professional success program as well, which is looking at
Speaker 1: the development of the team. So we had a component
Speaker 1: of self reflective assessments, the DISC profile, which you might
Speaker 1: be familiar with, looking at different communications styles, and then
Speaker 1: we did worked with Gallop where the team did another
Speaker 1: self assessment tool to really look at what they're good at,
Speaker 1: what's particularly great around and Gallop, which is a global
Speaker 1: analytics company looking at a whole range of topics relevant
Speaker 1: to management and supporting your team. They say it's about
Speaker 1: finding out what people are good at, not what's wrong
Speaker 1: with them, And I think that's really important in this
Speaker 1: line of work, to find out what makes people tick,
Speaker 1: giving them opportunities to work on components within their role
Speaker 1: that are aligned to that. So we did the DISK
Speaker 1: self assessment, and we did the Gallop self assessment, and
Speaker 1: the next part of this professional success program is looking
Speaker 1: at different development pathways that people may be interested in
Speaker 1: management or education, a clinical focus, being more involved in
Speaker 1: the follow up of donor families. So not only did
Speaker 1: the team focus on their primary role that you'll see
Speaker 1: outline in their position description, but we also ensure that
Speaker 1: we have robust processes for well being and development. And
Speaker 1: so people have options depending on what they need. It's
Speaker 1: quite an individualized approach which we then support.
Speaker 2: When it comes to the families. How long do you
Speaker 2: do follow up support for them?
Speaker 1: Yeah, so the donor coordinator has that initial follow up
Speaker 1: when their loved one has become a donor. And then
Speaker 1: we have a donor Family Support coordinator whose role is
Speaker 1: focused on an ongoing support of families and it really
Speaker 1: is dependent on what they would like, what their needs are.
Speaker 1: And Michelle Skinner is our Donor Family Support coordination, does
Speaker 1: a brilliant job in maintaining that contact, especially anniversaries. Donor
Speaker 1: families are invited to come to a service of remembrance
Speaker 1: every year as well, so that it really is based
Speaker 1: on what a family would like in terms of that
Speaker 1: ongoing support from Donut Life.
Speaker 2: And I'm assuming you would ask them what they want.
Speaker 1: Yes, absolutely.
Speaker 2: And do you have regular meetings with your team so
Speaker 2: you know how sometimes someone has trouble, they're starting to
Speaker 2: get burnt out. You don't have insight, but you can
Speaker 2: tell something's a bit off with them. Do you watch
Speaker 2: your team on that level, or social worker or a psychotherapist,
Speaker 2: you know you're always keeping an eye on your team.
Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, and I think this is where when we
Speaker 1: meet with them. A big part of it, I think
Speaker 1: is really building a working relationship with the team, so
Speaker 1: there is that open communication so the team feel comfortable
Speaker 1: to let us know when they're starting to feel like
Speaker 1: they need a bit of a break, or ensuring that
Speaker 1: they have a proactive leave plan throughout the year, things
Speaker 1: like that, so we can be intoe with where people
Speaker 1: are at and what they may need.
Speaker 2: That's so important. Actually, I was just chatting about that
Speaker 2: with Georgie, and Georgie made comment about how important it
Speaker 2: was for her own self care to make sure that
Speaker 2: she had regular holidays. And even though it's great to
Speaker 2: save it up for a big trip, I do think
Speaker 2: you need to sometimes break it up a little bit
Speaker 2: and have something to look forward to and in a
Speaker 2: role that it's not just physical but highly emotive. I
Speaker 2: think that's so important.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, no, I completely agree. And when the team
Speaker 1: are around death and dying and they're providing so much
Speaker 1: empathy to the families that they meet, keeping that focus
Speaker 1: on self care is so important. And I know there's
Speaker 1: different words out therefore, you know, detached empathy or empathy
Speaker 1: without absorption, or this way of being able to care
Speaker 1: for families so genuinely but also preserving that self care.
Speaker 1: And I think that's a skill when it's not something
Speaker 1: that comes instantaneously, but it is something that the team
Speaker 1: develop over time, and we absolutely want to support the
Speaker 1: team to develop those skills. And I think when different
Speaker 1: peers are talking to each other, they can share those
Speaker 1: strategies that they have developed for themselves as well. I
Speaker 1: think that that is it's really important.
Speaker 2: So can you say those terms again around empathy.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so there's different ones out there, but they all
Speaker 1: mean a similar thing around detached empathy or empathy without absorption.
Speaker 1: Before coming on here, just to look for a really
Speaker 1: clear definition of empathy the ability to understand and share
Speaker 1: feelings of others, but doing that in a way when
Speaker 1: you're in a profession such as this where you're not
Speaker 1: taking on everybody's grief because there's a lot of it
Speaker 1: and at the same time you're still human. So there's
Speaker 1: definitely a skill working in this particular profession and other
Speaker 1: professions in health as well, or ambulance workers, you know, microparamedics,
Speaker 1: and there's aspects of this role that it's raw, it's
Speaker 1: really raw, and I think sometimes there are families that
Speaker 1: the team will talk to and just maybe something relatable
Speaker 1: about that particular patient or that family where it just
Speaker 1: catches you a little bit more. And having that awareness
Speaker 1: of self to know when that's happened and how to
Speaker 1: navigate that. Is there a need to step away and
Speaker 1: someone else to come in and be involved, but it's
Speaker 1: also what's happening in the team's life outside of work.
Speaker 1: You know, life can sometimes throw some pretty significant.
Speaker 2: Curve polls, absolutely, and when.
Speaker 1: You're in a role such as this, I think sometimes
Speaker 1: it can have more of an impact depending on what
Speaker 1: the day looks like and what the donation that's may
Speaker 1: be required to do on that day. You know, are
Speaker 1: they on call for the statewide service and they've got
Speaker 1: something else going on, and navigating that in a way
Speaker 1: that still supports everybody with what they need with what's
Speaker 1: going on for them.
Speaker 2: When you go in and have a chat with a family,
Speaker 2: you know, you're talking about the end of life for
Speaker 2: a loved one, there's been a traumatic incident. Emotions are
Speaker 2: really high at that time. How do you bring it
Speaker 2: down so that you can have a viable conversation because
Speaker 2: I know what I'm really upset, I might only keep
Speaker 2: tying a little bit of information. How do you go
Speaker 2: about that? Is it numerous conversations, numerous visits with that family?
Speaker 2: How do you bring the emotions down and allow for
Speaker 2: an informed consent.
Speaker 1: It's a good question, and the donation nurses have communication
Speaker 1: training for facilitating conversations regarding donation. A big part of
Speaker 1: it is working closely with the treating team at the
Speaker 1: health service to understand what's happening for this family, what
Speaker 1: other dynamics might be there are their family that need
Speaker 1: to travel from into state or overseas, or how long
Speaker 1: has their loved one been in the intensive care unit?
Speaker 1: For example? What information can the donation nurse gather before
Speaker 1: walking into the family meeting to best care and provide information,
Speaker 1: but learn about their loved one and understand what is
Speaker 1: important for them regarding end of life and organ and
Speaker 1: tissue donation has been a part of that. Sometimes it's
Speaker 1: a number of conversations, sometimes it might be only one.
Speaker 1: It really is based on the family and what they need.
Speaker 2: It must be highly confronting to think about someone keeping
Speaker 2: a loved one alive. To take out different organs of
Speaker 2: their body, and I would assume that one of the
Speaker 2: questions would be what happens after that, So.
Speaker 1: Donate life are only ever involved once there's been a
Speaker 1: transition in the patient's care to end of life, and
Speaker 1: part of that conversation is understanding what's happened to their
Speaker 1: loved one and understanding why there's been that transition to
Speaker 1: end of life and ensuring that there is an understanding
Speaker 1: or an acceptance that there is that transition to end
Speaker 1: of life care before donation is ever raised. And then
Speaker 1: part of raising donation is understanding the wishes of their
Speaker 1: loved one and what they would have wanted. And I
Speaker 1: think for the team, when the family are aware what
Speaker 1: their loved one would have wanted in terms of donation,
Speaker 1: that's a different experience to when they're completely unaware of
Speaker 1: what their donation isshes may be. And that's a big
Speaker 1: part of the media and communications teams within the Organance
Speaker 1: Issue Donation Network to raise awareness around donation and to
Speaker 1: encourage people to register their wishes and to have a
Speaker 1: conversation with their loved one. So if they're ever in
Speaker 1: this position where they need to talk about donation, they
Speaker 1: have confidence in knowing what their loved one would have wanted.
Speaker 2: It must be highly confronting to be sitting in a
Speaker 2: room someone's just loved ones just had a traumatic incident. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and then you're being asked the question about organ donation.
Speaker 2: Are we in Australia the only country that does organization
Speaker 2: as a donation like in the States, is organs paid for?
Speaker 1: No, that's certainly in Australia. There's no financial incentive for
Speaker 1: anyone to pursue organic tissue donation. It's very much an
Speaker 1: altimistic gift and it's very rare. There's only two percent
Speaker 1: of patients that die in a way where organ issue
Speaker 1: donation is possible. There's a very very rare set of
Speaker 1: circumstances where donation can be discussed with a family just
Speaker 1: sept that's what their life one would have wanted.
Speaker 2: So overseas in those places, do people pay for organs?
Speaker 1: Not to my knowledge, but I'm not across the across
Speaker 1: the details of what happens in each major country and
Speaker 1: how they facility. You know what their donation program looks.
Speaker 2: Like because I remember being a student nurse at PA
Speaker 2: when doctor Strong set up the liver transplant unit and
Speaker 2: they started doing their first liver transplants. Now that was
Speaker 2: back in nineteen eighty eight eighty nine, and then, I
Speaker 2: mean I was too young and stupid within as a
Speaker 2: nurse and for any theaters to go into those theaters,
Speaker 2: but I can remember looking in in absolute awe of
Speaker 2: what they were doing and how remarkable they were. And
Speaker 2: then once I went, I did some work at the
Speaker 2: Royal Children's and you know, there were a couple of
Speaker 2: incidences where I was a scrub nurse there, but it
Speaker 2: felt like it was such a privilege to even be
Speaker 2: around it, let alone be part of it, you know,
Speaker 2: And you guys must feel that on a daily basis.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think it's we'll see, you know, how
Speaker 1: many patients may have been you know, may have received
Speaker 1: a transplant, live a transplant, or the national numbers to
Speaker 1: see how many lives have been saved. But when you
Speaker 1: actually talk to someone who has had the experience of
Speaker 1: being on the waiting list, waiting for this call because
Speaker 1: their own organ is failing, and just that uncertainty to
Speaker 1: hopefully receiving a call that a transplant is available to
Speaker 1: them and then their recovery. But I guess thinking about
Speaker 1: what that means for them, but it's also much broader
Speaker 1: than that in terms of what that means for their family,
Speaker 1: what that means for their children, or what that means
Speaker 1: for their spouse or their parents and their friends, or
Speaker 1: being able to get back to work. You know, it
Speaker 1: often has such a significant impact on their day to
Speaker 1: day quality of life and the relationships around them that
Speaker 1: when you hear a recipient tell their story, it's so
Speaker 1: incredibly moving because they're their story has often started many
Speaker 1: many months before they've received a transplanting and you're hearing
Speaker 1: them talk about the impact that it's had on them.
Speaker 1: It certainly puts into perspective the fragility of life. Absolutely
Speaker 1: not getting caught up in you know sometimes just things
Speaker 1: that we just get a bit stuck on sometimes and
Speaker 1: you only need to listen to someone share their story,
Speaker 1: be that a don't the family or a transplant recipient,
Speaker 1: to just help your refocus a little bit sometimes on
Speaker 1: what truly is important and what the connections and the
Speaker 1: relationships around you me.
Speaker 2: How do you look after yourself because you're also looking
Speaker 2: after said nurses as well as you know, other avenues
Speaker 2: of your career and your job, But how do you
Speaker 2: look after you.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think because I'm now in a role where
Speaker 1: I'm removed from the frontline stuff, so to speak. I
Speaker 1: see my role and where I get my self care
Speaker 1: from is doing all I can to set up a
Speaker 1: work environment for the team that supports them. I feel
Speaker 1: that sense of responsibility to make sure that they have
Speaker 1: everything they need to do their job well and to
Speaker 1: care for themselves. And I guess from my perspective that
Speaker 1: may be looking at our workforce planning or different things
Speaker 1: like that which enable us to staff the roster well
Speaker 1: so people do get breaks and there's more options for
Speaker 1: more people that have leave or that's where I focus
Speaker 1: my attention and I feel a real sensive responsibility. And
Speaker 1: then outside of work, I try and ensure that I
Speaker 1: prioritize doing the things that help me recharge my batteries,
Speaker 1: be that spending the time with my family or you know,
Speaker 1: just having the odd weekend away. And this is also
Speaker 1: where I've really enjoyed the work that we're putting into
Speaker 1: the strengths, finding out what our strengths are, because not
Speaker 1: only did the team do that, but the nursing management
Speaker 1: team did that as well. So those times where you're
Speaker 1: just feeling a little bit stuck on something or just
Speaker 1: feeling a bit low. I often will look at the
Speaker 1: report that is about me and I look at key
Speaker 1: things in there that I think, Oh, what else can
Speaker 1: I focus on? You know what else can I look?
Speaker 1: I love learning, so maybe it's listening to a podcast
Speaker 1: or I think that self awareness of knowing what you
Speaker 1: need to take care of yourself is so important because
Speaker 1: it's different for everybody. What works for me may not
Speaker 1: be effective for someone else. And I think this is
Speaker 1: the other part of not only my role, but the
Speaker 1: other nursing manage your roles and the donation nursing team
Speaker 1: that you know there's senior nursing positions, because we need
Speaker 1: people to have those self care strategies to take care
Speaker 1: of themselves even the work that we're involved in, either
Speaker 1: directly or indirectly, to have those skills to perform this
Speaker 1: work not only as actively as best as what they can,
Speaker 1: but a huge part of this is having developed strategies
Speaker 1: for self.
Speaker 2: Care and care for others. And I would assume to
Speaker 2: some degree, at some stage all of you have either
Speaker 2: felt some degree of moral injury or vicarious trauma in
Speaker 2: your role and having a psychotherapist, social worker on your
Speaker 2: team would be wonderful to speak to, but often you
Speaker 2: don't realize that's occurred until after the fact. Are there
Speaker 2: times when someone comes in to ICU and it's such
Speaker 2: a traumatic event that you just once it's dealt with,
Speaker 2: you're like, okay, debrief, we've got to really look after you.
Speaker 2: Does that happen?
Speaker 1: Yeah, that does happen. Definitely happens, and not only just
Speaker 1: for the donation team, but we often will then work
Speaker 1: with the stuff that have been involved at the health
Speaker 1: service to facilitate whether it be a clinical debrief, so
Speaker 1: they understand what may have happened before they were rostered
Speaker 1: on and were involved, or what happened after they had
Speaker 1: left and they went on some days off, or whatever
Speaker 1: the case might be, and understanding what the need is
Speaker 1: so we can ensure that we can bring as much
Speaker 1: information as we can if that's what's required, or whether
Speaker 1: we need to come in and be involved for more
Speaker 1: of that debrief from a self care and a looking
Speaker 1: after each other perspective, because everybody is human and this
Speaker 1: is a pretty intense area to work in and be
Speaker 1: around death and dying all the time, So sometimes it's
Speaker 1: just a matter of having a good cry and being
Speaker 1: with your colleagues, just letting that out. And sometimes the
Speaker 1: need is different and what that is for each person
Speaker 1: will sometimes just vary a little bit, but we definitely
Speaker 1: try and ensure that we've got avenues there for whatever
Speaker 1: maybe have, so we can be responsive to that. And
Speaker 1: often if it is similar to what you mentioned earlier,
Speaker 1: is asking people what would be helpful right now? Is
Speaker 1: that having some time off, is that having some debrief
Speaker 1: type sessions. Is that speaking with the clinical psychotherapist who's
Speaker 1: LinkedIn with Donate Life, Or is there perhaps something at
Speaker 1: the health service EOP that is available to someone to
Speaker 1: support them. Sometimes people have their own private support networks
Speaker 1: that they might engage with a little more, And I
Speaker 1: think a lot of that does come down to the
Speaker 1: relationship we have with the team and individually to know
Speaker 1: where they're at and what we can do to support them.
Speaker 1: The other part that we introduced three or so years
Speaker 1: ago was an annual engagement survey, and within the survey,
Speaker 1: the different items that we ask the team unpacks what
Speaker 1: their basic needs are to knowing what's expected of them
Speaker 1: and do they have everything they need to do in
Speaker 1: their job to their individual needs and their team needs,
Speaker 1: and their development needs. And this enables us to keep
Speaker 1: our eye on the ball on areas that may fluctuate
Speaker 1: within those groupings of questions and where we can then
Speaker 1: focus as a management team to go, oh, actually there's
Speaker 1: a bit of a need here for some more resources
Speaker 1: or some more education, or so you know, whatever it
Speaker 1: may be. So we can ensure that when people come
Speaker 1: to work they feel as engaged as they possibly can
Speaker 1: be to perform the role, and that they can be
Speaker 1: as open as they can with us as their managers,
Speaker 1: to communicate how they're feeling and what else they may need.
Speaker 2: So it's all about a safe work environment.
Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, and it shouldn't be unique to our line
Speaker 1: of work because it's how you feel that night before
Speaker 1: you come to work, right, like, oh gosh, do people
Speaker 1: dread it or they think, oh, yeah, I'm working tomorrow,
Speaker 1: that's great. Or when you're out socially and someone says
Speaker 1: to you know, I have work going, what answer do
Speaker 1: people give you? I think gives a really clear indication
Speaker 1: of how engaged they're feeling in their workplace and how
Speaker 1: can we prevent people from feeling burnt out or just
Speaker 1: that exhaustion of the unpredictability that comes with our work.
Speaker 1: In particular, what is within our control to prevent those
Speaker 1: things from occurring.
Speaker 2: I think it's wonderful that you are looking ahead, you're
Speaker 2: supporting your team, you're looking at different and new ways
Speaker 2: of management, which I think is fantastic. And it's really
Speaker 2: wonderful to hear because I've sat here and listened to nurses, midwives, paramedics,
Speaker 2: and the stress and the burnout they're feeling in hospitals
Speaker 2: is phenomenal and nothing's changing, like there's no changes, Whereas
Speaker 2: you've got this amazing group of people and you've come
Speaker 2: in and recognized that it could be a very high
Speaker 2: burnout position. You're dealing with a lot of trauma, vicarious trauma,
Speaker 2: you know, sadness, death, dying, grief, and you're doing everything
Speaker 2: you can to look after your nursing team and team
Speaker 2: I'm sure there's other people in that team in the
Speaker 2: healthiest way possible. And I can't tell you how impressed
Speaker 2: I am right now because I've sat here and listened
Speaker 2: to people just going I don't know where nursing's going,
Speaker 2: you know, like I don't want to be a nurse anymore.
Speaker 2: I am so tired. And here I am hearing you
Speaker 2: guys talking about loving your job. It's a really you know,
Speaker 2: high stress position. You want to look after your team.
Speaker 2: Georgia loved going to work. I mean that says so
Speaker 2: much to me as a nurse. And I'm a little
Speaker 2: bit in awe of the organization, to be fair, And
Speaker 2: does that come from the top or the type the
Speaker 2: people you employ? I mean, how do you get to
Speaker 2: that position?
Speaker 1: I think it's a bit of everything, to be honest,
Speaker 1: and we can't achieve anything as a one man band
Speaker 1: in Donate Life Like it's absolutely a team effort in
Speaker 1: terms of the work that we do, but I think
Speaker 1: it's a bit of a mixture. And I reflect on
Speaker 1: COVID and just how disruptive that was for everybody. And
Speaker 1: during that time, you know, as a leadership team, we
Speaker 1: were looking going, oh, you know, we haven't experienced anything
Speaker 1: like this before. What can we do? You know, with
Speaker 1: the lockdowns and you know all these things, especially in Victoria,
Speaker 1: what can we do here? That's a bit different because
Speaker 1: we had some members of our team who were redeployed
Speaker 1: to support other areas of the health service, and then
Speaker 1: we had staff who were continuing to deliver our donation service.
Speaker 1: You know, some people were living at home and they
Speaker 1: had roommates for their families. Some people were living on
Speaker 1: their own, and the experience for everyone was very different.
Speaker 1: And one of the initues we came up with during
Speaker 1: that time was to introduce a food for Thought Tuesday,
Speaker 1: and I think it was a wellness Thursday. So we
Speaker 1: had these micro learning sessions virtually and then a wellness
Speaker 1: session where someone might come on and guide us through
Speaker 1: some deep breathing or some stretches in the chair or
Speaker 1: just matting anything to go. Yeah, and really, some people
Speaker 1: will engage with that because it helps them, and some
Speaker 1: people may not engage with that as much or they
Speaker 1: think it's a bit fluffy or it's just not for them,
Speaker 1: which is completely fine as well. But from an organization,
Speaker 1: it was there, it was available. We're giving it a
Speaker 1: go because you know, we're all kind of trying to
Speaker 1: find our way in our respective roles, and I think
Speaker 1: that's what has so on a bit of a seed
Speaker 1: to go. We need to just continue to be open
Speaker 1: minded with how to keep moving forward as an organization,
Speaker 1: given the importance of the work we do. Without a doubt, yeah,
Speaker 1: And I think for someone coming into the donation specialist
Speaker 1: nursing role, part of our recruitment when we're interviewing people,
Speaker 1: we want to be confident that they are pursuing this
Speaker 1: role for the right reasons, that they feel really passionate
Speaker 1: about quality end of life care and having a bit
Speaker 1: of an understanding the process is helpful as well, but
Speaker 1: coming into this line of work to be really aligned
Speaker 1: with what our purpose is because then when we're working together,
Speaker 1: or when there are times where everything's a little bit
Speaker 1: challenging or there's a few things going on and we
Speaker 1: really need to band together to make it work, you know,
Speaker 1: then everybody's aligned with this shared goal of moving forward.
Speaker 1: So that's certainly something we look at when we recruit
Speaker 1: for nurses to join our team, who are often from
Speaker 1: either ICU, the emergency department, or the operating theater, and
Speaker 1: they often have had some exposure to donation or transplantation.
Speaker 1: And I have to admit sometimes when we read a letter,
Speaker 1: it's so moving and the person can really capture why
Speaker 1: they've seen this role and they would really love to
Speaker 1: join the team, which is as in a nursing management role.
Speaker 1: I just find that I love reading that. Yeah, so
Speaker 1: I think it's doing it for all the right reasons
Speaker 1: and obviously having career progression, which is really important for
Speaker 1: people who want that. But you're pursuing this because you
Speaker 1: want to be a part of something bigger than yourself
Speaker 1: and give back and have an appreciation for what this
Speaker 1: actually means, which is so important. And I think when
Speaker 1: people enjoy their job and they have everything that they
Speaker 1: need to do the job well, I think it really
Speaker 1: does help prevent burnout when they've got a good team
Speaker 1: around them and great relationships with other people. That we've
Speaker 1: obviously got a nursing and a medical component to how
Speaker 1: our organization works, but we've also got an administration team
Speaker 1: and a meter and communications team, and an education team,
Speaker 1: data analyst, and you know, we rewind everybody to make
Speaker 1: us successful in the work that we do, so we
Speaker 1: all need to be aligned to build that trust and
Speaker 1: those working relationships to work effectively together because ultimately, the
Speaker 1: community are relying on us to get this right.
Speaker 2: Two hundred percent, I couldn't agree with you more, Justine,
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for taking the time. I am
Speaker 2: truly in awe of the exciting way you guys are
Speaker 2: moving and caring for your nurses and sitting there talking
Speaker 2: about it with me. You know, one of the number
Speaker 2: one reasons people get burnt out is feeling underappreciated. And
Speaker 2: it seems like you really value and your organization values
Speaker 2: the nurses and the other team members greatly and what
Speaker 2: they do and you can't do what you do without
Speaker 2: these guys, so exactly, I really appreciate you taking the time.
Speaker 2: I've already spoken with Georgia about how people can sign
Speaker 2: up to make sure that the loved ones know what
Speaker 2: their decisions are when it comes to organ donation, and
Speaker 2: George just went through what you need to do, whether
Speaker 2: it go through donatlife dot org or through Medicare, and
Speaker 2: I'll put those details up on our show notes so
Speaker 2: that people if they just want to want to check
Speaker 2: where they're at with it, can click on it. But
Speaker 2: it saves so many lives and it just takes the
Speaker 2: burden of a really tough decision off the family during
Speaker 2: a really traumatic time making that decision, and then it's
Speaker 2: there on your Medicare card. So is there anything else
Speaker 2: you want to add to that?
Speaker 1: No, I really appreciate the opportunity to speak to you.
Speaker 1: Really about what we do, but also about the team
Speaker 1: because we do really value the work that they do
Speaker 1: and the difference that they make with the families, also
Speaker 1: the many health professionals that they interact with on a
Speaker 1: day to day basis. We feel very fortunate to have them,
Speaker 1: and we feel really really fortunate to have a job
Speaker 1: that has such an impact on those needing a transform.
Speaker 2: Just see if we had more nursing leaders like you
Speaker 2: and the organization you're working for. I don't think nurses
Speaker 2: would be leaving in droves like they are. And it
Speaker 2: doesn't take much, just takes a little bit of thought
Speaker 2: into what your team needs, and like you said, it's
Speaker 2: just those funny little things and whether they choose to
Speaker 2: engage or not, it's there and it's offered and it's powerful.
Speaker 1: It's so powerful, and I think sometimes we have an
Speaker 1: expectation for the team to be curious about their ongoing
Speaker 1: learning and development. I think it's really important as the
Speaker 1: nursing leadership team, and this extends into our education team
Speaker 1: as well, that we also maintain that curiosity to ensure
Speaker 1: we're the best possible leaders that we can be as
Speaker 1: a team. And we've actually recently introduced a regular kind
Speaker 1: of session in house to just keep talking about the
Speaker 1: topics that are relevant, be it change management or crucial conversations,
Speaker 1: or you know, a range of things that we think, oh,
Speaker 1: let's just have a bit of a refresher on that,
Speaker 1: because we do have such a responsibility in nursing leadership
Speaker 1: management roles for the type of environment that we've set
Speaker 1: for the nursing team in our organizations or our departments
Speaker 1: or wherever.
Speaker 2: We may be based, because leadership comes from the top.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, yeah, completely agree. You know, you have to continue
Speaker 1: to be monitoring when we do an engagement survey. It's
Speaker 1: not a flushing a pan, you know, or we've done
Speaker 1: that tick box like, it's something that we'll come back
Speaker 1: to and it will inform different actions that we take
Speaker 1: to continue to refine what we do to keep the
Speaker 1: team's engagement on our radar and the things that we
Speaker 1: still need to focus on, or they're things that pop
Speaker 1: up from time to time that you do need a
Speaker 1: little bit of work. But I think that's normal and
Speaker 1: I think as long as we continue to look at that,
Speaker 1: that's the main point. So we do continue to move
Speaker 1: forward and address them.
Speaker 2: Well, I think it's wonderful and I know you are
Speaker 2: super busy, and thank you so much for taking the
Speaker 2: time to chat with me. Like I said, we'll put
Speaker 2: information up on the show notes. I'm in awe of
Speaker 2: your leadership, Justine. Thank you so much for taking the
Speaker 2: time to chat to us. And you know, I really
Speaker 2: hope other nursing leaders have listened to this and take
Speaker 2: on board a couple of those little pointers. One was
Speaker 2: Gallop and what was the other disc? Disk disc.
Speaker 1: You can just put it into Google and there'll be
Speaker 1: plenty of content that comes up. And I think Gallup
Speaker 1: in particular often has resources for managers just hone in
Speaker 1: on little disperse team or you know, different topics that
Speaker 1: are very relatable that can just give some tips or
Speaker 1: you know, just things to think about when you're managing
Speaker 1: the nursing tea.
Speaker 2: Oh I love it so thank you so much and
Speaker 2: I appreciate you taking the time.
Speaker 1: Oh thanks both, It's been a pleasure speaking with you.
Speaker 2: This season. I am so excited to announce that the
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Speaker 2: just want to say a huge thank you to Nutrita.
Speaker 2: Their desire to support nurses is truly appreciated, and they
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Speaker 2: can all grow as nurses.