Speaker 1: I get a two. It's HAPs A's Stiffney hang book.
Speaker 1: It's a Sunday in Melbourne, thriving in Tropolis. It's fucking balmire.
Speaker 1: I just looked at the temperature. It's rocked up to
Speaker 1: fourteen degrees. I've taken off two of my coats. I'm
Speaker 1: just down to ug boots and my jocks and it's
Speaker 1: which is a good thing. We don't do the visual,
Speaker 1: just the audio now, all still in a societ. I'm
Speaker 1: looking out the window between the bamboo it's sunny, Tiff,
Speaker 1: it's sunny, and in.
Speaker 2: The car before to come back here and do this podcast,
Speaker 2: and I was like, oh my goodness, and you know what,
Speaker 2: I get seasonal effective disorder big time.
Speaker 1: And tell people what that is.
Speaker 2: Seasonal effective disorder is just a fancy way of saying
Speaker 2: the winter blues, but it's a thing and some people
Speaker 2: really suffer from it. In fact, my client this morning
Speaker 2: said that he one of his friends, a psychologist, is
Speaker 2: doing a PhD in seasonal effective disorder.
Speaker 1: Well, I might have said to you ten years ago, yeah,
Speaker 1: jog it out because I was an insensitive but anyway,
Speaker 1: but these days I'm kind of I don't have that.
Speaker 1: But I definitely have changed my tune like I used
Speaker 1: to be, you know, I mean, I still am an idiot.
Speaker 1: I'll still go run in the cold and the rain
Speaker 1: and all of that, but I will say I'm looking
Speaker 1: forward to summer. And I used to like people who
Speaker 1: would winge about winter. I'd be like, harden up, princess,
Speaker 1: i'man jogged out You be fine. You don't have cancer,
Speaker 1: you don't have a tumor. Shut the fuck up. But
Speaker 1: I'm kind of coming around. So maybe I'm becoming more passionate.
Speaker 1: But more likely I'm just becoming softer.
Speaker 2: It might be that PhD in self awareness you're doing that.
Speaker 1: It could be that. It could be that it could
Speaker 1: be you and I were chatting about a very interesting
Speaker 1: topic just before we went live, and I thought I
Speaker 1: would love to talk about I mean that I just
Speaker 1: find it interesting. Now let's just preface this. Of course
Speaker 1: we're not going to say who, but somebody that you
Speaker 1: and I know has had to have some breast surgery,
Speaker 1: need to get a couple of things a little I
Speaker 1: think benign tumors or whatever lumps removed, and while she's
Speaker 1: there is getting a little bit of enhancement. And I
Speaker 1: said to you because you were saying you had to
Speaker 1: have a screen the other day, because you're got to
Speaker 1: know what are you doing? You're doing some hormony thing.
Speaker 1: I should pay more attention. What are you doing.
Speaker 2: I'm having a tinker in the perimenopausal pool at the moment.
Speaker 2: So we're looking at maybe doing some hormone therapy, and
Speaker 2: you know, all of the things, all the fun.
Speaker 1: Stuff, and I and you said, I don't think I
Speaker 1: would do that, which is no judgment, and it's just
Speaker 1: a personal preference. And I don't know if I would,
Speaker 1: like if I was a female, if I would do
Speaker 1: that either, I don't know. I don't know. I just
Speaker 1: I think probably not, Like I understand, I understand why
Speaker 1: people wouldn't. I understand why people wouldn't. Why are you
Speaker 1: probably in their no camp? We're talking about getting a
Speaker 1: in colloquial terms, a boob job, like why are you
Speaker 1: probably in the no camp?
Speaker 2: I think? And I'm probably more a lot more in
Speaker 2: the no camp now than maybe when I was younger.
Speaker 2: Although I've always been a bit opposed, like I've always
Speaker 2: had I've been relatively flat chested, so when we do
Speaker 2: good peck workouts, it's a win for me, and let's
Speaker 2: be honest, new boobs, I wouldn't be able to see
Speaker 2: that as much because they will be covered up with
Speaker 2: new boobs.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but also I don't know. It's like I don't
Speaker 1: I mean, I think it's different now. I don't pay
Speaker 1: any attention to me everyone with this because I don't
Speaker 1: know anything about it. But they don't use what silicon anymore?
Speaker 1: They use saline or do they use some of your
Speaker 1: own tissue or body fat?
Speaker 2: Sometimes I actually have no idea myself.
Speaker 1: We have two worse people talking about this than you
Speaker 1: and me, the fucking bloke who knows nothing and the
Speaker 1: girl who doesn't want them.
Speaker 2: But what I do know, there's a lot of I've
Speaker 2: seen a lot of women having them taken out, and
Speaker 2: they can have bad experience. It's quite bad experiences for
Speaker 2: your health. And by the way, don't they I believe
Speaker 2: on the last ten years or something we don't have
Speaker 2: to get them replaced anyway. But for me, I would
Speaker 2: say a big part of my personal reason and I
Speaker 2: don't this is one of those things where you don't
Speaker 2: judge other people the same way you judge yourself. But
Speaker 2: I wouldn't be able to look at the having a
Speaker 2: sexualized version of my I would feel like a very
Speaker 2: sexualized version of myself, and given my background, that would
Speaker 2: I would not feel good about that, So it wouldn't
Speaker 2: be I would love dresses too. I would love to
Speaker 2: be able to borrow some when I have to frock
Speaker 2: up once every two or three decades.
Speaker 1: But that's all. Yeah, I understand that I was talking
Speaker 1: to somebody, and not this lady we're talking about, but
Speaker 1: somebody a bit a going. And she said to me, like,
Speaker 1: it's all just about for her, it's just about self
Speaker 1: esteem and just feeling a bit better. And I went,
Speaker 1: I get it, I get it. There's no it's like
Speaker 1: there's no right or wrong. There's no for me, like
Speaker 1: there's no judgment, there's just curiosity. It's like I had
Speaker 1: a friend of mine, how do I don't want to
Speaker 1: get anyone. I don't want anyone to figure out who
Speaker 1: this is a guy or girl? And he or she
Speaker 1: was a was attractive that we would say that except
Speaker 1: they had a honker, let's be honest, had a fucking
Speaker 1: a nose like me, right, they got a nose job,
Speaker 1: and honestly, the change and they went from like really
Speaker 1: self conscious embarrassed and to like, I just saw their
Speaker 1: confidence sore and they were. Of course, this is not
Speaker 1: the meaning of life having fucking cosmetic surgery, of course,
Speaker 1: but in that case I looked at that. When that's
Speaker 1: on all levels emotionally, psychologically, sociologically, physically, cosmetically, I go,
Speaker 1: that's a good outcome, you know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'll be honest, if I had the money and
Speaker 2: it's and one day when I do, I would like
Speaker 2: to get my upper and lower eyelids surgically done because
Speaker 2: I have bags under my eyes and too much fat
Speaker 2: on top of my eyelids and it bothers me right
Speaker 2: because I'm in front of mirrors all the time and
Speaker 2: I look tired and exhausted, and it sounds really superficial.
Speaker 2: But you know, so I wouldn't get boobs, but I'd
Speaker 2: get my eyes done right one day. I'd like to,
Speaker 2: so kind of on the semi to do list.
Speaker 1: Well, you think about the the way that we kind
Speaker 1: of are critical of, Like if somebody wants to wear
Speaker 1: all the makeup and put on guy or girl, put
Speaker 1: on the best outfit, be that a suit, be that shirts,
Speaker 1: a shirt and jeans or a dress or whatever. Somebody
Speaker 1: wants to look great, so they go and buy all
Speaker 1: this stuff to look like Nobody buys clothes that they
Speaker 1: think will make them look worse. Why are you getting that?
Speaker 1: I want to look like shit? Right, everybody wants to
Speaker 1: look good. But we seem to have these, you know,
Speaker 1: personal lines that we draw about what's okay and what's
Speaker 1: over the top and what's not okay. And you know,
Speaker 1: I think if I was going to I probably wouldn't.
Speaker 1: But I'm about a ten percent chance, but probably nine
Speaker 1: percent not. You know what I'm going to say, don't
Speaker 1: you What am I going to say?
Speaker 2: Are you going to say?
Speaker 1: Oh? What are you saying? Why'd you pick that? Why'd
Speaker 1: you pick that?
Speaker 2: He was pointing?
Speaker 1: What are you doing?
Speaker 2: Funny stuff?
Speaker 1: Fuck it? What? That's hurtful? Yeah, well, you know, I
Speaker 1: mean every time it rains in Hampton four people come
Speaker 1: and stand under my nose just to keep dry. That's hurtful.
Speaker 2: Favorite of your jokes because I see that your to
Speaker 2: per form every time you say it.
Speaker 1: I don't think I will. But at the same time,
Speaker 1: if I could magic, and you knows that was about
Speaker 1: you know, seventy percent of the current version, although you know,
Speaker 1: thanks to sweet baby Jesus that my nose works, right,
Speaker 1: I can sniff, I can smell, So you go, well,
Speaker 1: it's functional. Shut up.
Speaker 2: That's exactly right when you think about dress for the
Speaker 2: job you want, not the job you've got, or how
Speaker 2: much confidence you get from your how you dress. Right,
Speaker 2: when we have that conversation, it's like it's very clear
Speaker 2: for everyone, and everyone's on board with that. But when
Speaker 2: we start to take it to things that get a
Speaker 2: bit murky around, Oh, we'll let your body, you know,
Speaker 2: blah blah blah. Yeah, it's kind of the same thing though,
Speaker 2: Like you, if it has an effect on your confidence,
Speaker 2: then I don't really to a degree you know, I
Speaker 2: don't know. Is it a problem?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Well, and also like if I want to get
Speaker 1: a nose job, it doesn't fucking affect anyone else, rightactly.
Speaker 1: But I could guarantee you people that's right, they're going
Speaker 1: to have to find somewhere else to stay dry. But boom,
Speaker 1: see how we can take the piss out of me? What? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I know I was going to ask a question that
Speaker 1: I will definitely not ask when you do that. No, No,
Speaker 1: I can't, I'll tell you I can't. I can't. Well,
Speaker 1: I'll just say this, It's okay to hang shit on me,
Speaker 1: right because but we couldn't do that, you know. You
Speaker 1: know what I'm saying. I don't mind if people make
Speaker 1: fun of me at all, but I have no intention
Speaker 1: or desire to do the same to others because I understand.
Speaker 1: But I think, you know, back to the back to
Speaker 1: the matter at hand. For me, I'm more interested when
Speaker 1: in terms of clothes and all of that stuff. As
Speaker 1: you know, for me, my main priority is comfort and function.
Speaker 1: Like I mean, obviously it's not my goal to look terrible,
Speaker 1: but I do everything human like I did, as you know,
Speaker 1: I did two gigs on one day in two states
Speaker 1: this week, both corporate gigs, both kind of high level corporate,
Speaker 1: and in both of them, I wore jeans and a
Speaker 1: T shirt. And I kind of say to them, if
Speaker 1: I really don't want to wear anything more formal than that,
Speaker 1: are you okay with that? And they both said, yeah,
Speaker 1: we're right with that. Like when I am, when I'm
Speaker 1: in a suit, i am not comfortable. I'm not comfortable.
Speaker 1: I'm not myself and I'm not This is not a
Speaker 1: global thing. This is just a me thing. But I
Speaker 1: feel like i'm playing a character in a fucking movie
Speaker 1: or something. When I put on a shirt and tie
Speaker 1: and suit and black shoes and then I walk up there,
Speaker 1: I feel like I'm pretending to be something because I
Speaker 1: just never ever ever wear that. Now, I know that's
Speaker 1: probably just my stuff, but and I understand the context.
Speaker 1: Sometimes it's, you know, a situation dependent you do do that,
Speaker 1: and if I have do I will. But yeah, I'm
Speaker 1: I don't. I don't worry. You know. It's like I
Speaker 1: shaved my hair off because it's just easy. People go,
Speaker 1: why do you do that? You look so good with
Speaker 1: long hair or longer hair.
Speaker 2: I go, it's just curly locks.
Speaker 1: I don't care, like I I it's funny, like I
Speaker 1: care to a point, but not much like if it's
Speaker 1: out of ten, I care too.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: It's like like the idea of growing my hair long
Speaker 1: and having because my hair grows like a motherfucker, but
Speaker 1: it's just a mess. It looks like a shrub sitting
Speaker 1: on top of my skin.
Speaker 2: When I was younger, my parents used to be a
Speaker 2: if I look back now, a real I was going
Speaker 2: to say weapon. That's probably a strong word, but a
Speaker 2: real statement. And what I see in it now was
Speaker 2: had this real introverted, shy kind of personality and maybe
Speaker 2: a very intan So I had this this look that
Speaker 2: made the statement that I didn't have the voice too.
Speaker 2: So I always talk about voice, talk about voice a lot,
Speaker 2: and I think that was it because I worked in
Speaker 2: My first job was in printing design and printing some
Speaker 2: business cards and stuff. And I remember talking about that
Speaker 2: once and realizing I had such a passion of it
Speaker 2: for it because it was the ability to give people
Speaker 2: and businesses voices that they did that they didn't need
Speaker 2: to use their voice to portray. So you have this
Speaker 2: personality and so like I was getting around with bloody
Speaker 2: pink hair, short pink hair, like fudge pink hair. When
Speaker 2: I was in my teens, I had a car, just
Speaker 2: a little Hounday Excel, but I got the windows tinted
Speaker 2: mirror blue. So I was cruising around in this illegally
Speaker 2: tinted car. Wow a couple of years just you know,
Speaker 2: I just always wanted to stand out. I bought my
Speaker 2: motorbike at seventeen, and I was getting around on that
Speaker 2: motorbike with my bloody short pink hair, you know, And
Speaker 2: it was just so that people go, she's cool and different.
Speaker 2: But really, you put me in a room with people,
Speaker 2: I would be quite as a mouse.
Speaker 1: And that's funny. I never thought, well, that's that's kind
Speaker 1: of dressing or presenting to create a particular or a
Speaker 1: desired outcome, not necessarily to be attractive, but to perhaps
Speaker 1: be unique or different.
Speaker 2: Or And I do remember the first time that I
Speaker 2: let my hair grow a bit and I died it
Speaker 2: back to a natural brown, and I had this sense
Speaker 2: at that time of I don't need that anymore, and
Speaker 2: that I didn't need that was the first time I
Speaker 2: realized that there was some sort of a thing I
Speaker 2: was portraying. It was like, oh, I didn't realize I
Speaker 2: needed it before, but now I feel like I don't
Speaker 2: need that shouty, bloody appearance.
Speaker 1: It's so interesting. I remember doing when I was in
Speaker 1: my early twenties. I was working, I was running a
Speaker 1: gym and doing all the shit I was doing. But
Speaker 1: it's three nights a week. I did security in pubs,
Speaker 1: and it was quite important that I looked big, that
Speaker 1: I looked intimidating, and so I was always one hundred
Speaker 1: odd plus kilos with a very shaved head, and every
Speaker 1: Friday night before work I would, I would, you know,
Speaker 1: clipper my hair with clippers. So my hair was about
Speaker 1: a millimeter long, and it's looking back, I think, yeah,
Speaker 1: that was because I was probably a little bit terrified
Speaker 1: because it's a bit volatile. I might get my fucking
Speaker 1: head caved in. But I wanted to look as though
Speaker 1: I was not to be fucked with. Yeah, you know,
Speaker 1: so I thought, well, they'll never They'll never discover my
Speaker 1: insecurity or innate lack of fighting skills if I looked terrifying.
Speaker 2: I remember talking about this in business networking ones of people.
Speaker 2: When I made that realization with print for me, I
Speaker 2: got really passionate about teaching people in business networking situations
Speaker 2: like to find that really what the passion is in
Speaker 2: what they do when they think they don't love what
Speaker 2: they do. Because even in because because I spent years
Speaker 2: and years and years in print and design and creative industry,
Speaker 2: thinking that I just saying I just fell into it.
Speaker 2: I fell into it through an opportunity when I left school,
Speaker 2: and then it became what I knew. But I was
Speaker 2: passionate about it and when as soon as I made
Speaker 2: that discovery, and I've had conversations with people in small
Speaker 2: businesses and that when we've found that link and they go,
Speaker 2: oh my god, I've never really realized that, And then
Speaker 2: they realized that's why they've been drawn into the role
Speaker 2: or the industry that they're in. It's really cool.
Speaker 1: Would you say, to this point in time, you've had
Speaker 1: an accidental career or an intentional career or something else accidental?
Speaker 2: For sure, both times I fell into that one and
Speaker 2: then I fell into the fitness one.
Speaker 1: I'm just writing that down because that could become I
Speaker 1: fell into podcasting. Well, isn't it funny? How you know
Speaker 1: we've spoken before about like work life balance and work impact,
Speaker 1: and I was thinking the other day I work. I've
Speaker 1: probably worked since I was eighteen years old, on average
Speaker 1: fifty hours a week. I'd say more a lot. It
Speaker 1: depends what we call work, right, But then you know,
Speaker 1: so I'm chucking in their PhD, which is essentially yeah,
Speaker 1: it's study, but it's a job. Like a PhD is
Speaker 1: more like a job than a job to me, Like,
Speaker 1: that's much more work, right. But anyway, I would say
Speaker 1: on average, for fifty weeks per year, for the last
Speaker 1: forty two years, I've done fifty hours. So if you
Speaker 1: go fifty hours times fifty weeks is two and a
Speaker 1: half thousand weeks a year. Now, if you multiply that
Speaker 1: by forty years, that's one hundred thousand hours of work, right,
Speaker 1: And I was thinking how many hours do people work
Speaker 1: over their lifetime? And also and again there's no clear
Speaker 1: answer to this, although I did look at a recent
Speaker 1: Gallup poll that said globally about sixty percent of people
Speaker 1: who work don't like their work so that they're not engaged.
Speaker 1: It says they're not engaged, They don't they don't look
Speaker 1: forward to it. They just do it. It's something they
Speaker 1: tolerate to produce a financial outcome. I get it, and
Speaker 1: I thought it might have been higher, and it may
Speaker 1: be who knows. But for me, the thought of just
Speaker 1: doing a thing to produce a financial outcome is terrifying.
Speaker 1: But also I do acknowledge that I have first world
Speaker 1: privilege and that I am lucky enough that I can
Speaker 1: create my own thing and have created my own thing,
Speaker 1: and not everyone is afforded the opportunity and luxury that
Speaker 1: I've been afforded to live in Australia, where if you
Speaker 1: want to work hard, take risks, fall down, get up,
Speaker 1: take chances, make hard decisions, do hard things you can
Speaker 1: within reason, you can kind of do whatever you want,
Speaker 1: you know, But that that idea of clocking in and
Speaker 1: clocking out and then just looking at the fucking clock
Speaker 1: on the wall waiting for five o'clock. I couldn't do that.
Speaker 1: I guess if I had to, I could. But what
Speaker 1: about you? Oh?
Speaker 2: Absolutely not. I was just thinking, have you ever you
Speaker 2: ever in your life had a time where you've felt stuck?
Speaker 2: Did you ever live that you didn't? Really? Like you
Speaker 2: kind of went into your own thing. But is there
Speaker 2: as an experience that you remember where you were just like,
Speaker 2: I don't ever want to be stuck like this?
Speaker 1: Do you know what I think? I don't know. Just
Speaker 1: the way my mind works, I don't know if it's
Speaker 1: good or bad. But from when I was a kid,
Speaker 1: if I did anything like I had a couple of
Speaker 1: jobs that I lasted one day because I knew in
Speaker 1: one day wasn't lazy. It's not like I don't want
Speaker 1: to work.
Speaker 2: I just knew this is not the thing.
Speaker 1: Like have you ever been out with a dude on
Speaker 1: the date and you know ten minutes.
Speaker 2: In all of them?
Speaker 1: Like, you know ten minutes in like, this is not
Speaker 1: the guy, and you may bee maybe four minutes in
Speaker 1: and I don't even know what it is, but you
Speaker 1: just know and probably ninety nine percent of the time
Speaker 1: you're right. And for me, Like, people are going to
Speaker 1: laugh at this. This is so ironic and hilarious. I
Speaker 1: don't know if you even know this. But when I
Speaker 1: was eighteen, i'd finished school and I didn't go to UNI.
Speaker 1: I went to UNI later, but I got somehow, I
Speaker 1: can't even remember how, but I got offered to be
Speaker 1: a trainee center manager trainee at McDonald's, right, hilarious.
Speaker 2: I know that is very funny.
Speaker 1: I know. I lasted about seven hours and I went
Speaker 1: up to the boss and I went, this is not
Speaker 1: for me, and they're like what, And it was a
Speaker 1: really good opportunity. So in the management program like to
Speaker 1: be you know, by the time I was twenty or
Speaker 1: twenty one managing a restaurant, blah blah blah. I'm like, dude,
Speaker 1: this is a fuck. Keep the money, keep the seven
Speaker 1: hours worth of money. I thank you for the opportunity.
Speaker 1: You're all great this but this is not me. But
Speaker 1: I knew that, and I knew and I thought, I
Speaker 1: can't like I'm not that dude, you know, even by
Speaker 1: the time I was twenty twenty one. And again I'm
Speaker 1: not saying this is good or bad, but this is
Speaker 1: just me. Even working in environments I liked, like working
Speaker 1: in a gym, helping people, having a boss, I will
Speaker 1: say though, my last boss, his name's Mike Thornbro, I'll
Speaker 1: shout out to him. He was great. He gave me
Speaker 1: all the rope because he knew that I was honest,
Speaker 1: and he knew that I cared about him, and he
Speaker 1: knew that I cared about his business. And I ran
Speaker 1: his business as well as I would have run my
Speaker 1: own business, or I tried to anyway. But it dawned
Speaker 1: on me early that I'm I want to work, but
Speaker 1: I don't want to have a job because I get bored.
Speaker 1: I need to be able to create and expand and
Speaker 1: try things that might fail. Well, you can't do that
Speaker 1: in someone else's business.
Speaker 2: Really, you just reminded me of a conversation I had
Speaker 2: with a friend.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: We went for a walk the other day and he
Speaker 2: was talking about one of his friends who at work,
Speaker 2: who he was managing. So he was managing this and
Speaker 2: we were talking about adhd and she has ADHD and
Speaker 2: how he learned so much about the condition and how
Speaker 2: to help her and manage her and make her and
Speaker 2: she ended up being this top performer. And then there
Speaker 2: was business structure change. She goes under different management and
Speaker 2: within I think he said something like three months she
Speaker 2: was put under performance management and just capitulated because people
Speaker 2: were micromanaging and he had to kind of go in
Speaker 2: and have a chat and go like give. And it's
Speaker 2: interesting we think of how different we all are and
Speaker 2: how we might just thrive in the right business, but
Speaker 2: that right business has to have the right people with
Speaker 2: the right skills to get the best out of this
Speaker 2: and the flexibility to understand that. It's hard to do
Speaker 2: that because then they go, what about all these people
Speaker 2: that they might want to work like that? And you know,
Speaker 2: it's hard, I think, to roll that out.
Speaker 1: Well, think about the reality that if you've got to
Speaker 1: let's say you've got tiff Ink, and at tiff Ink,
Speaker 1: everyone comes to work at tiff HQ and there's twenty
Speaker 1: people or there's twenty personalities, twenty backgrounds, twenty expectations, and
Speaker 1: you know, probably different reasons for being there in some way,
Speaker 1: shape or form. So you've got to deal with all
Speaker 1: that variability and all that kind of humanity. And yes,
Speaker 1: you've got to tick the boxerscross the t's, dot the i's,
Speaker 1: make the money, service the clients and customers, develop, build
Speaker 1: the product, blah blah blah blah blah. But you also,
Speaker 1: and this is the hard part, you've got to create
Speaker 1: a culture that people want to be in. I say
Speaker 1: to all the bosses that I work with, all the CEOs,
Speaker 1: all the bloody mds, all the business owners, do you
Speaker 1: have a place, a culture, an organization, even a physical
Speaker 1: place that people want to be in and want to
Speaker 1: come to? Because if you've got everything right, but people
Speaker 1: don't like the culture or you, or they don't feel valued, loved,
Speaker 1: scene wanted, fucking good luck keeping them and definitely good
Speaker 1: luck keeping them happy.
Speaker 2: You ran massive businesses with a lot of staff, right,
Speaker 2: how did you what worked and what failed in creating
Speaker 2: that culture? Because you're one person with one influence, you
Speaker 2: must have done.
Speaker 1: A lot of so it worked at varying levels, and
Speaker 1: I got lots of things wrong. I'll say that up front.
Speaker 1: You know there were times when Harper's my Gym's were
Speaker 1: the industry leader in Australia and we were crushing and killing, and.
Speaker 3: I think part of it was that the good part,
Speaker 3: like when we did well, was that I was silly
Speaker 3: and I was energetic, and I loved people and I
Speaker 3: wanted I had.
Speaker 1: Fun with my staff, I had fun with my clients.
Speaker 1: I made it a great I tried to make it
Speaker 1: a great energy to be in the middle of. That
Speaker 1: became harder when I opened other centers that I wasn't
Speaker 1: in the middle of right, And like all businesses, I
Speaker 1: had trainers that were brilliant, I had trainers that were
Speaker 1: not so brilliant. I had trainers in the middle and
Speaker 1: people that come in and for the first three six
Speaker 1: months they're fucking amazing, and then twelve months in they
Speaker 1: hate you for some reason or maybe I did something right.
Speaker 1: I'm not saying it's I'm not at fault, but I
Speaker 1: was always because I wasn't good at business, but I
Speaker 1: was good at people. The business ended up going pretty good.
Speaker 1: But I was always very aware of culture, connection, communication,
Speaker 1: reading the room, resolving conflicts, solving problems as quick as possible,
Speaker 1: And I instinctively and intuitively knew without ever being taught,
Speaker 1: that if I could create a place that people wanted
Speaker 1: to be in were a pretty good chance. Mm.
Speaker 2: Now I'm thinking about when I back in the day,
Speaker 2: when I had a job, job and a boss, and
Speaker 2: just the idea of figuring out like self awareness, figuring
Speaker 2: out what actually works for you. That's hard when you
Speaker 2: because I think, especially at the workplace, most of us
Speaker 2: are a people pleaser at some point. And it took
Speaker 2: me the best part of my forty years, the very
Speaker 2: biggest chunk of it, to get any idea of how
Speaker 2: much I would accommodate and put myself last and have
Speaker 2: no idea why I might be happy, ortispie or feel
Speaker 2: comfortable where I am, what part of it, whether it
Speaker 2: was confrontation or whether it was relationship driven with the people,
Speaker 2: or whether it was what I'm doing, or the structure
Speaker 2: the time, how much flexibility I have versus how much
Speaker 2: structure and help, so you like to have enough help
Speaker 2: and guidance but not be micromanaged and have be able
Speaker 2: to be create even a bit spontaneous. That was a
Speaker 2: hard thing to really learn well for myself over all
Speaker 2: that time.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think also, you know, we talk about
Speaker 1: this idea with diet, We talk about it with lifestyle.
Speaker 1: We talk about it with as we did at the
Speaker 1: start the show, how we dress like it's personal. Like
Speaker 1: you think about your job. You don't have holiday pay,
Speaker 1: you don't have sick pay. You have a lot of risk,
Speaker 1: You have a lot of financial vulnerability. You don't know
Speaker 1: how much money you will make next week. You don't
Speaker 1: know how many people will listen to your podcast. You
Speaker 1: have very little are predictability on planet you. I have
Speaker 1: a little bit less right because I don't have a
Speaker 1: set wage per se. And you get but your existence
Speaker 1: is really vulnerable, but also creative, but also fucking terrifying
Speaker 1: but also exciting. But it wouldn't suit a lot of people,
Speaker 1: but for you, it's perfect. And so this notion of
Speaker 1: finding the right job is really more about finding the
Speaker 1: right job for that person, that personality, that emotional system,
Speaker 1: that creative being that you know, where do I thrive?
Speaker 1: Because where you thrive, somebody else might perish. You know.
Speaker 1: It's back to the We give Brian some almonds and
Speaker 1: he feels great, and we give Sally some almonds and
Speaker 1: she fucking chokes out on the floor. Right, it's not
Speaker 1: about the almonds. It's not about the job. It's about
Speaker 1: what works for us as individuals also comma your honor.
Speaker 1: It's also what will work for you over your work spam.
Speaker 1: You know, So what what fucking set you on fire
Speaker 1: when you were twenty? That's probably well and truly past.
Speaker 1: It's used by date for tiff. Yeah, and what blew
Speaker 1: your socks off when you were thirty? Now you might
Speaker 1: go shoulder shrug emoji. Not really? And now what sets
Speaker 1: you on fire? What excites you? Challenges you, has your attention?
Speaker 1: That might be quite different in one, two, five years.
Speaker 1: You know, like, the best job for you is fluid.
Speaker 1: It's not stagnant. It's not the same thing like the
Speaker 1: best You know, when I was twenty, I could eat
Speaker 1: three pretty big meals a day and I didn't get fat.
Speaker 1: At sixty, I can't. Yeah, all these things are dynamic.
Speaker 1: The world's dynamic. Where you know, you're not the same
Speaker 1: person that you were yesterday. Your body's not the same.
Speaker 1: Your cells are constantly dying and growing like you're everything's
Speaker 1: being reinvented. So this idea that you'll find a job
Speaker 1: and you'll do that for forty years and be happy
Speaker 1: is completely fucking ridiculous for most people. Yeah, that's not
Speaker 1: going to be the case, and.
Speaker 2: I reckon most people listening and wherever they are right now,
Speaker 2: and you think about how much, like I think about
Speaker 2: how much it took me to learn, how many mistakes,
Speaker 2: how many opportunities, And with a higher risk profile like
Speaker 2: I have, I was able to jump in and try
Speaker 2: something and pivot and do something else, and do something else.
Speaker 2: There's a luxury in that that you have to have
Speaker 2: a higher risk tolerance. But then what gets really complex
Speaker 2: is getting to this point. And then when you are
Speaker 2: ready for a chat, like at the moment I go, Okay,
Speaker 2: you're doing too much, like too many hours, too much,
Speaker 2: you've taken on a lot, and to get further, you
Speaker 2: need to figure this out. No one's I'm the most.
Speaker 2: I'm I know the most about what got me here
Speaker 2: and what works and what doesn't. But then when you
Speaker 2: need some advice, it's like when you turn because no
Speaker 2: one else knows all of the stuff that I already know,
Speaker 2: it's like it doesn't it's really difficult. I find it
Speaker 2: difficult because people can give you a bum steer. So
Speaker 2: I'm really hesitant to go, oh, help me out, because
Speaker 2: everyone's a fucking expert. I can help.
Speaker 1: You well, yeah, exactly. And that's why even with this show,
Speaker 1: and I've said this a million times, you know, we're
Speaker 1: not dispensing advice. There's not a prescription coming out of
Speaker 1: this conversation. There's a conversation and in the middle of
Speaker 1: their thoughts, ideas stories, you know, someone might go, ah,
Speaker 1: I might try that. Someone else might think, ah, that's bullshit.
Speaker 1: Either way, it's fine, like if you know, like I
Speaker 1: like to just provoke people to think. Like the idea,
Speaker 1: even just one simple idea that's come out of this
Speaker 1: is that most jobs, most careers, have it used by
Speaker 1: day where the excitement and the joy and the contentment
Speaker 1: and the happiness that that situation once manifested for that individual,
Speaker 1: that might go away. And that's okay, that's not We
Speaker 1: don't need to be sad. We just need to adapt.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: I remember working, I remember literally working in pubs and
Speaker 1: it was kind of exciting because it was fucking a
Speaker 1: bit scary, it was a bit risky. It's fucking you know,
Speaker 1: hot girl. There was some great girls everywhere, there was pissed,
Speaker 1: silly people. It was fucking entertaining. It was just a
Speaker 1: fucking shit fest of humanity and for me, I was
Speaker 1: like a fish out of water because I was the
Speaker 1: most boring motherfucker in the joint. Like all I did
Speaker 1: was eat chicken salad and lift heavy shit. Then I
Speaker 1: went to this circus three times a week to watch
Speaker 1: people who were nothing like me, and it was like
Speaker 1: such a great learning place. It was such a great
Speaker 1: classroom for me. But now I'd rather punch myself in
Speaker 1: the face than go there. But at the time, I'm like,
Speaker 1: this is this is so good? You know, I mean,
Speaker 1: but that's yeah, you know, you know, there was a
Speaker 1: time when me training clients was the best thing. Like
Speaker 1: I used to feel like this is the biggest scam ever.
Speaker 1: I'm in a gym. All I want to do is
Speaker 1: be in a gym, because gyms are the best. Right,
Speaker 1: I'm in a gym. I'm making three or four times
Speaker 1: the hourly rate of a gym instructor because I'm a trainer, right,
Speaker 1: And I'm making good though. I'm talking to cool people.
Speaker 1: I'm having fun, I'm learning, I'm evolving. I'm in an
Speaker 1: environment I want to be. I'm wearing a fucking tracksuit
Speaker 1: to work. How good is that? You know? It's like
Speaker 1: now I look back and I go. I understand why
Speaker 1: that was awesome, but now that wouldn't be awesome. And
Speaker 1: it's not that it's good or bad, it's that I'm
Speaker 1: a bit different.
Speaker 2: Now was there what did anything ever or what was
Speaker 2: the thing that would keep you stuck if it ever did?
Speaker 2: Like for me, it's I have this inability to let
Speaker 2: go of things. So I try and move on without
Speaker 2: creating the space, and I'd burn out and I'd take
Speaker 2: too much on because I think I have this insecurity complex.
Speaker 2: It's all this is all going to fall away, nothing
Speaker 2: last forever. You're going to get a band and you're
Speaker 2: going to lose things, so hold on to it real tight.
Speaker 2: So I'm I try and grow. I've got no I've
Speaker 2: got no free hand to grasp anything new. Do you
Speaker 2: have something that you can that made it hard for
Speaker 2: you to you it was inefficient?
Speaker 1: Well, I think because I always I was always doing better,
Speaker 1: not always, but I was mostly I looked better than
Speaker 1: I was, as in like I knew that people thought
Speaker 1: I knew a fair bit, but I didn't feel like
Speaker 1: I knew a fair bit right, And so for me,
Speaker 1: shitty self esteem got in the way. Like when I
Speaker 1: was in a situation that was pretty good, but I
Speaker 1: knew that there was something better. I'd maybe stay in
Speaker 1: the pretty good for a while because of fear of, oh,
Speaker 1: but what if the other thing doesn't work, which is
Speaker 1: very typical you still do that, not maybe a little,
Speaker 1: but you know, like I've thought a lot even about
Speaker 1: this show. I've thought, h how long will I do
Speaker 1: this show for? And if I'm being as transparent as
Speaker 1: I can be, Like even right now, I'm enjoying this conversation,
Speaker 1: and you and I have had hundreds of conversations. There's
Speaker 1: nothing about this that I go, ah, fuck, this is
Speaker 1: just some obligation. There's you know, It's like I saw
Speaker 1: you before at the gym and I said, have you
Speaker 1: got time? And bah, And there is a little bit of, oh,
Speaker 1: I need to get a podcast recorded today because today Sunday,
Speaker 1: we don't have one for tomorrow. But I've got two
Speaker 1: interviews tomorrow, so we're good for Tuesday and Wednesday. But
Speaker 1: so there's a little bit of that because of the
Speaker 1: continuity and the expectation and the self imposed rules of
Speaker 1: podcast today. But nearly all the time when I'm doing it,
Speaker 1: I'm somewhere between liking it and loving it and I know,
Speaker 1: I'll get off this with you and we'll go see
Speaker 1: everyone and I'll say to you, that was good, that
Speaker 1: was good, you know, And as long as I'm enjoying it,
Speaker 1: I'm going to keep doing it. And if it gets
Speaker 1: to the point where, you know, and it's not making
Speaker 1: me rich and it's not making you rich, we all
Speaker 1: know that. But if it's getting to the point where
Speaker 1: I'm kind of breaking even but I still love it,
Speaker 1: I'm going to keep doing it.
Speaker 2: You know, what have you gotten out of this that
Speaker 2: maybe you didn't expect on the podcast?
Speaker 1: Oh that's a great question. And I thought about this
Speaker 1: the other day. It's like every day of my life
Speaker 1: I'm talking to an audience, and it's made me a much, much,
Speaker 1: much much better speakerlive because I'm talking about you know,
Speaker 1: the mind behavior, thinking habits, you know, self control, outcome, success, failure,
Speaker 1: that all the time. And I have to think all
Speaker 1: the time, and I have to be clear and articulate,
Speaker 1: and I need to sometimes explain complicated shit in an
Speaker 1: uncomplicated way. And this, apart from hopefully creating something that's
Speaker 1: good for our listeners, it's also an opportunity for me
Speaker 1: and you to develop skill competence, awareness communication. So for
Speaker 1: me that yeah, it's like I love it anyway. I
Speaker 1: could give you ten things. Meeting awesome people, you know,
Speaker 1: chatting with the beautiful Johnny Raffo, I could give you.
Speaker 1: I could give you, you know, individual examples of things that
Speaker 1: I will I will cherish, you know, building an audience
Speaker 1: of awesome people. I had a guy come up to
Speaker 1: me at Sydney Airport on Wednesday. Fuck, sorry, dude, I
Speaker 1: can't remember your name. He's probably going to listen to this,
Speaker 1: such a sweetheart. He goes Craig and I go yeah.
Speaker 1: He goes Craig Harper like, oh yeah, and he goes mate,
Speaker 1: he goes, you don't know this, but you kind of
Speaker 1: saved my life. And he shook my hand and he goes,
Speaker 1: I read all your stuff. I listened to your stuff.
Speaker 1: He goes, I don't know, something like I don't know
Speaker 1: where i'd be without you. And I'm like, fuck, dude,
Speaker 1: I just want to spoon you on the couch now, motherfucker. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I just like And that was a bloke I've never
Speaker 1: met and probably will never see. It's Sydney Airport. I'm
Speaker 1: walking to the gate. I'm in a bit of a hurry.
Speaker 1: I'm about to go to Melbourne to do another thing.
Speaker 1: And it was like I just stopped and time stood
Speaker 1: still and I just and I just thanked him and
Speaker 1: I shook his hand and told him how much I
Speaker 1: appreciated it. And those moments you go, yeah, this is
Speaker 1: the only reason I do it, But yeah, this is
Speaker 1: why I do it. This is fucking this is so good.
Speaker 1: And it's not about ego. It's just about ah. I
Speaker 1: literally helped someone. Yes he did the work. But when
Speaker 1: a stranger stops you and says, and by the way,
Speaker 1: I don't think on any level I saved his life.
Speaker 1: But when they say, you know, you kind of saved
Speaker 1: my life, you know, or even just you really help
Speaker 1: me and you don't know. But then I go, fuck, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's why I do it so good.
Speaker 2: Someone was asking for advice one of my tazzy friends
Speaker 2: and they want to start a podcast Nate, and one
Speaker 2: of the questions they'd written was is it worth it?
Speaker 2: And I, for all the reasons you just said, I said,
Speaker 2: that's a loaded question. Depends what you want to get
Speaker 2: out of it. But you'll get this, this, this, this
Speaker 2: and this, and you'll develop your They want to do
Speaker 2: it on mental health. They've got lived experience, they're doing
Speaker 2: some great work in that area. I'm like, this is
Speaker 2: you will get so much out of the experience. That's
Speaker 2: what if you're aware of that, go and do it
Speaker 2: like and I say that to everyone, like do it
Speaker 2: and start now, like everyone wants to wait, just start now.
Speaker 1: But also yes, I agree, and also do it well,
Speaker 1: like don't don't fucking sit in your kitchen on your
Speaker 1: mum's fucking card table with a phone sitting on a
Speaker 1: fucking shoe box, for God's sake, Like I can't say who,
Speaker 1: but somebody I know has recently started a new podcast
Speaker 1: and it's good. Two people it's good, and one of
Speaker 1: the people their audio is nine out of ten and
Speaker 1: the other one it's fucking four out of ten.
Speaker 2: And when I see it, I feel like I know
Speaker 2: who you're talking about, because I was just thinking the
Speaker 2: same thing I reckon being of the same person.
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, and good idea good show name good like good,
Speaker 1: everything's good. But I listened to some of the other
Speaker 1: day and I couldn't keep listening because it sounded like
Speaker 1: one person had their head in the toilet.
Speaker 2: I was going to say something to them as well.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but the other like one was the audio was great,
Speaker 1: the other one, you know, So what's my point? My
Speaker 1: point is whatever you're you know, by the way, when
Speaker 1: you first start, of course it's not going to be awesome,
Speaker 1: but hopefully the guests will get better, the conversation will
Speaker 1: get better, the editing, the sound, the quality of everything,
Speaker 1: and you keep But if you think you're just going
Speaker 1: to start podcasting and become a success story, especially in
Speaker 1: our it ain't going to happen without you know, you're
Speaker 1: rolling up your sleeves and going, I'm going to do
Speaker 1: worst case scenario one hundred episodes. Then reassess, like, if
Speaker 1: you're not going to do one hundred and you won't
Speaker 1: commit to one hundred, and then reassess my opinion, don't start.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and if you've just got that one outcome goal,
Speaker 2: it mightn't be that you're going to be the best
Speaker 2: podcast for every one day, but something in your life
Speaker 2: will be you'll be way better at it as a
Speaker 2: result of the work you've put in.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think that you know, with everything that
Speaker 1: we do, you know, as a gym instructor, I was
Speaker 1: crap and then I got better and then as a
Speaker 1: trainer the same, and then as a podcaster. I think
Speaker 1: I'm still improving. I definitely have room for growth and improvement.
Speaker 1: And you know, it's it's that, it's that that kind
Speaker 1: of duality of being able to still have one eye
Speaker 1: on development and learning and progression while also being able
Speaker 1: to be in the middle of it going. But also,
Speaker 1: by the way, this is fucking awesome right now, you
Speaker 1: know that that which I've spoken a few guests about
Speaker 1: the the kind of almost the conundrum of being both
Speaker 1: ambitious and content at the same time, because they seem
Speaker 1: to be exclusive. But you know, I think for the
Speaker 1: most part, I'm content. I don't really have any significant
Speaker 1: regular anxiety. But also I'm ambitious. I would love to
Speaker 1: have a million listeners a week, but if I never do,
Speaker 1: that's okay, you know. So it's been fun TIF.
Speaker 2: As always, Thanks Harps.
Speaker 1: No boobs for you and no knows job for me.
Speaker 1: I think I think there are two of the key takeaways.
Speaker 1: And maybe build a.
Speaker 2: Job you like wh when typ hits a million listens
Speaker 2: a week, maybe you can buy me some ee surgery.
Speaker 2: Though for my Christmas bonus, I.
Speaker 1: Don't even see the eye think I'm looking, but maybe
Speaker 1: it's because you've got to filter onto you really, thanks everything,
Speaker 1: all right everyone, love your guts