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Speaker 1: Welcome to the mentor. I'm Mark Boris Charlie Walters. Welcome

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Speaker 1: to the mentor.

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Speaker 2: Thank you for having me cold, ye kill.

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Speaker 1: It's fatter high, my god, like the wind blowing down

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Speaker 1: that street down there, like it's you know, you've gotta

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Speaker 1: you gotta be well rugged up. But the good thing

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Speaker 1: is nice Mormon cozy in here. So you're the CEO

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Speaker 1: of k h CO CO.

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Speaker 2: Correct?

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Speaker 1: What does CO stand for?

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Speaker 2: CO is potassium hydroxide.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and it really is. So basically one atom of

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Speaker 1: potassium and one atom of oxygen and one atom of hydrogen,

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Speaker 1: which is potassium hydroxide.

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Speaker 2: The knowledge is a pub your mind science.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, but why potassium hydroxide?

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Speaker 2: So the universal cleaner, which is the hero product of CO,

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Speaker 2: is zero point five percent potassium hydroxide and filtered water,

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Speaker 2: which makes for a very effective universal products. So you're

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Speaker 2: you're a cleaning We're a cleaning business.

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Speaker 1: But don't cleaning products business. We are as opposed to

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Speaker 1: cleaning services business. That's correct, right, So can I just

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Speaker 1: just jump around a little bit here on the potassium hydroxide?

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Speaker 1: My god, I mean, I'm so glad you told me

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Speaker 1: that because it was killing me, because my production team.

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Speaker 1: I've written it as koh, which small small HBK was

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Speaker 1: sort of I thought to myself immediately that sounds like

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Speaker 1: a Chinese person's surname, and I thought there must be

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Speaker 1: a person called CO set this up. But it's potassium,

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Speaker 1: which is K hydroxide. Is those two hydrogen? Can you

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Speaker 1: just are you saying that's five percent of po point

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Speaker 1: five percent? I should say of your product is potassium hydroxy?

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Speaker 1: Why potasium hydrox are explained it to me?

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Speaker 2: Okay, I'll take a step back in terms of the

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Speaker 2: CO journey. So CO started in twenty sixteen two days

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Speaker 2: from Bondai. Entrepreneurial came across this formula a Japanese innovation,

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Speaker 2: and worked had seen and heard of it in the industry, however,

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Speaker 2: was yet in the Australian market. Worked with a scientist

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Speaker 2: at the University of New South Wales to develop this formula,

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Speaker 2: which essentially works in a very different way to standard

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Speaker 2: cleaning products. I do not have a technic technical background

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Speaker 2: when I'm not a scientist. But the story though, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 2: so the story two dads, they started out at the

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Speaker 2: Bondi markets very much pioneered the refill reuse model that

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Speaker 2: is now very prevalent across e commerce businesses in the

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Speaker 2: key cleaning space. I would say they were before the

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Speaker 2: before the time and at that time at the markets

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Speaker 2: when they.

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Speaker 1: First started out which maid markets, Dads? Yeah, can I

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Speaker 1: just get because if you don't mind if I dis

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Speaker 1: asked quick question, Charlie, what were they doing before that? Like,

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Speaker 1: what were they doing on the other days when the

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Speaker 1: market's not open?

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Speaker 2: This was their gig. They had various other endeavors which

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Speaker 2: are entrepreneurial of nature.

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Speaker 1: Are there inventors or something they would.

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Speaker 2: Like importers, distributors, wine buyer and sellers, the two dards,

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Speaker 2: bitter everything, Mates Mates Mates Yeah, yeah, yeah, came across

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Speaker 2: this really interesting product, realized very quickly that it had

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Speaker 2: multiple uses and a lot of cleaning products, you know,

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Speaker 2: very much the category. You need a bathroom cleaner, you

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Speaker 2: need a rug cleaner, you need a couch cleaner, you know,

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Speaker 2: so forth. And they were like, this product does all

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Speaker 2: those jobs.

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Speaker 1: Very it's a common denominator for all the functions of cleaning. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Common denominator was this potassium molecule along with oxygenodrogen. You

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Speaker 1: said it was originally in Japan.

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Speaker 2: Some of the insights and knowledge of this, I guess

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Speaker 2: innovation came out of Japan.

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Speaker 1: I always get fascinated with these dudes. I mean, who

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Speaker 1: the hell are They're sitting around understanding thinking about, oh

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Speaker 1: my god, we've heard about this in Japan. Do they

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Speaker 1: read about it where they've just floaten around Japan one

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Speaker 1: time and they someone some camis over there told that

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Speaker 1: this is something that works in Japan. Do you know,

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Speaker 1: how have any idea.

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Speaker 2: How there was a there was a more commercialized sort

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Speaker 2: of industrial product that was a cleaning product that was

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Speaker 2: using this in Japan.

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Speaker 1: So they didn't go and engineer from that product. They

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Speaker 1: didn't sort of reverse engineer, did they.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's exactly they did. They with the University of

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Speaker 2: New South Wales.

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Speaker 1: Ah okay, so they got the product out of Japan.

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Speaker 1: I'm not saying that.

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Speaker 2: Not necessarily got inspired.

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Speaker 1: Got inspired, but they're sort of reversed engineered. So how

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Speaker 1: do they hell do they know someone from the University

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Speaker 1: of New South well was obviously chemistry engineers and various

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Speaker 1: other types do that mates at the University New Southwes

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Speaker 1: which is not far from Bondo by the way.

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Speaker 2: So I joined co in twenty two, six or so

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Speaker 2: years after the business started. I'm not across the it's

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Speaker 2: pretty mad at details.

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Speaker 1: That's pretty mad. I mean seriously, get like, you've got

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Speaker 1: two dudes. Find out what are these guys like to

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Speaker 1: me with their character? But they're still around.

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Speaker 2: I guess yea yah, they're still run They sit in

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Speaker 2: the business. It's fun times. You know CEO founders.

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Speaker 1: You know what are they like?

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Speaker 2: They're passionate, very passionate individuals, you know, entrepreneurial nature, their

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Speaker 2: hands on, they're passionate. They were with the business from

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Speaker 2: the beginning through its heyday and you know continue now.

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Speaker 2: You know it had significant growth. They've done every role

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Speaker 2: in the business more or less. Yeah, and they have

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Speaker 2: the wisdom of the history of the business to pass.

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Speaker 1: On Mad and So and these these two guys, can

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Speaker 1: you say the names?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Adam and Justin So Adam Lindsay and Justin Alexander

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Speaker 2: and originally went to bond Ai Markets under the guys

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Speaker 2: of Okay, I'm a family man. This is cleaning category

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Speaker 2: is so complicated. Surely we can do something eco. You know,

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Speaker 2: we have high credentials in the ecospace. We're independently certified

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Speaker 2: surely we can do something better for families, like, it

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Speaker 2: can't be this complicated. So went to BONDOI Markets with

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Speaker 2: the eco sort of angle as the prioritizing conversation and

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Speaker 2: quickly realize, well, efficacy is a hygiene factor of the category,

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Speaker 2: and all well and good to be eco, but you've

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Speaker 2: got to work and so over time the co brand

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Speaker 2: was really like this, have your cake and eat it too,

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Speaker 2: where you could, you know, have your eco credentials and

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Speaker 2: also have an effective clean which is at the end

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Speaker 2: of the day, really important when you when you're cleaning.

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Speaker 1: So just so understand what you mean by efficacy. What

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Speaker 1: you mean is that the works, product works. The words

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Speaker 1: had to be formulated in such a way that it

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Speaker 1: was effective. But but on the on the other side,

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Speaker 1: the go to market thesis is that it's environmentally sensitive

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Speaker 1: in that we can give you refills or something like that.

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Speaker 1: Is that is that the So.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's a really interesting point when you

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Speaker 2: talk about sustainability and eco and what that means to

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Speaker 2: different people. You know, are you putting waste into waterways?

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Speaker 2: Are you optimizing sort of end of life strategies? You know,

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Speaker 2: in terms of you know, are you reducing your common impact.

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Speaker 2: You know, there's so many different ways you can look

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Speaker 2: at environmental impact and sustainability. Co in its essence, the

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Speaker 2: product itself is eco certified and Sensitive Choice approved. What

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Speaker 2: is it CO certified?

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Speaker 1: What does it mean?

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Speaker 2: I mean like in Europe it's not full of arsenic Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 2: it's not got chemical chemical ingredients that are going to

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Speaker 2: affect our waterways or our health essentially.

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Speaker 1: Yes, that's interesting because you know how long ago was this?

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Speaker 2: When do they kick it off twenty sixteen, I.

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Speaker 1: Think around so we took in nearly twenty years. So

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Speaker 1: the sewerage outlet that goes out off North Bondi was

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Speaker 1: only extended by I think two kilometers probably in about

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Speaker 1: twenty nineteen. So at that stage at North Bondo there

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Speaker 1: the sewerage works as the sewage works in North Bondi,

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Speaker 1: and it was a lot of times it was responsible

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Speaker 1: before they extended it, it was responsible for a lot

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Speaker 1: of the pollution that actually occurred along the coastline. Is

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Speaker 1: so it was coastline and clearly this would have been

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Speaker 1: one of the things they would have been concerned about,

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Speaker 1: you know, bad stuff going out through the draining system

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Speaker 1: and to that extent, they would have been a little

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Speaker 1: bit ahead of the time, and I was just wondering

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Speaker 1: if they chose Bondeau on purpose because of that no bondo.

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Speaker 2: Born and bred. That was their native home, and for

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Speaker 2: them it was really about you know, the environment, but

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Speaker 2: also their families. You know, you've got kids on the

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Speaker 2: floor around chemicals, you're eating off plate, or kids are

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Speaker 2: licking the ground, you know, and you're not really at

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Speaker 2: that point in time considering the impact on people's health.

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Speaker 2: What we've known now is one in four people have

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Speaker 2: a chemical sensitivity and whether that be you know, rashes

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Speaker 2: or headaches or you know whatever, it can be for

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Speaker 2: many different people. But people are oblivious to that and

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Speaker 2: so co in its essence, the product itself is safe

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Speaker 2: for the planet and safe for you personally. What we

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Speaker 2: do from an environmental perspective is we do bolk packaging,

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Speaker 2: so essentially the amount of packaging per one hundred meals

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Speaker 2: is significantly less. We use bag in box, which is

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Speaker 2: one of our I guess own formats. Bag in box,

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Speaker 2: you know, like the goon bag. Our products come in

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Speaker 2: a bag in box.

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Speaker 1: It's a bit like the booze the wine.

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Speaker 2: A glamorous wine box. Yeah, yeah, yeah, which you know,

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Speaker 2: it's cardboard. It's great, better for the environment. Bulk is

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Speaker 2: obviously less packaging per hundred meals.

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Speaker 1: So if I just go back to them in twenty

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Speaker 1: sixteen or whatever, it was seen seven and eight. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: before you came along. Did these guys keep footage of themselves?

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Speaker 2: Yes, there's a lot of footage there's they were originally

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Speaker 2: filling They had their own mini manufacturing line in a

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Speaker 2: I think it was in one.

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Speaker 1: Of their garages, Wave the council.

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Speaker 2: Feeling product. This is in the early days of market days,

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Speaker 2: and they couldn't keep up with the growth they were.

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Speaker 2: You know, they pioneered that sort of model. They quickly

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Speaker 2: realized that they were onto something at the market and

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Speaker 2: transferred that into an e common environment and scaled dramatically quickly.

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Speaker 2: They were the D two C Darling essentially t C

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Speaker 2: doing sorry director consumer director.

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Speaker 1: Yes, So that that's that's a pretty amazing story. Like

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Speaker 1: two dudes in Bondai sort of put their heads together

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Speaker 1: and were their dads. Two dads dads. So what do

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Speaker 1: you think motivates individuals like that? I mean, you know,

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Speaker 1: it's hard to get inside people's heads, but do you

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Speaker 1: think it's some they come up with the idea and

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Speaker 1: they're motivated it because they didn't want they want the

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Speaker 1: kids to lead a bit of life. Or is it

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Speaker 1: partly just a marketing exception that they have. So in

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Speaker 1: other words, we can turn this was pretty much a

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Speaker 1: boring topic into something interesting by playing the environmental card.

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Speaker 1: But actually, you know, doing good things for the environment

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Speaker 1: by having a fairly non volatile chemical structure. Those three chemicals,

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Speaker 1: those three those three elements are quite they're not they're

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Speaker 1: not volatile, so they're non volatile, so they're not going

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Speaker 1: to really be too effect too much of a deleterious

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Speaker 1: effect on the the outlet system when it goes out

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Speaker 1: into the sea for example, or for that matter, what

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Speaker 1: it's not being might be poisonous on the floor when

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Speaker 1: your kids jump on the floor, either or it's not

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Speaker 1: as poisonous. So what do you know what drives these

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Speaker 1: types of entrepreneurs, Because you know, we get a lot

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Speaker 1: of listeners who are entrepreneurs, and I think people are

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Speaker 1: really interested to know you deal with them every day

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Speaker 1: or weekly. I guess you probably report into them. What

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Speaker 1: are these people's mindsets?

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Speaker 2: Like, I think there's a need to not accept the

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Speaker 2: status quo, Like just because something exists doesn't mean that

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Speaker 2: the category that's good. Well, that's what the category needs

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Speaker 2: to be. And earning for doing better and that there's

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Speaker 2: a better way to do something, and that ability to

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Speaker 2: say I'm going to create change, it's going to better people,

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Speaker 2: that's going to improve their life, that's going to make

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Speaker 2: their lives easier, improve their health, and at the end

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Speaker 2: of the day, that purpose feels good.

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Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, totally. So that's I like that answer because

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Speaker 1: a lot of people talk to me about, you know,

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Speaker 1: what should I do with my life? You know, like

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Speaker 1: especially younger people, they ask me those sorts of questions,

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Speaker 1: and I don't really know what anyone should do for

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Speaker 1: their life. But for me, business initiatives is about making change,

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Speaker 1: creating change, and for me sometimes change for change sake,

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Speaker 1: not just not for any other higher order. It can

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Speaker 1: be just doing something differently and being eventual us in

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Speaker 1: that regard, because whatever these guys did that was an adventure,

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Speaker 1: like to be able to think you can you can

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Speaker 1: come up with a product that's going to take on

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Speaker 1: the fast moving consumer. Good organizations who control branding and

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Speaker 1: product categories and they control.

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Speaker 2: Distribution and category norms, every.

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Speaker 1: Single thing like they can. They're all over the TV

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Speaker 1: like they're everywhere right, and to take them on is

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Speaker 1: really difficult. So just making a formula change, a formula change,

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Speaker 1: I should say, to what it is that they're going

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Speaker 1: to promote is sort of takes a feverit of courage

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Speaker 1: end or bravery, bravery like or even there I say

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Speaker 1: it a little bit of naivety in some respects.

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Speaker 2: So that famous saying I'm going to get wrong the

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Speaker 2: foolish verse minus, you know, on the verge of those crossroads.

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Speaker 1: There's not much difference between the two right as a

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Speaker 1: plus a minus. So you know, and often people sort

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Speaker 1: of say, if something is a failure, that person was foolish,

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Speaker 1: but there wasn't usually not much in it that it

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Speaker 1: could have been a success. And everybody said, the person's

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Speaker 1: a genius.

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Speaker 2: I completely agree.

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Speaker 1: Then that's but the and a lot of these entrepreneurs,

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Speaker 1: like these individuals that you're talking about, these two guys,

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Speaker 1: they they know that they know they can either fail

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Speaker 1: or succeed, but they're actually not that worried about that outcome.

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Speaker 1: They're more interested in trying to make the change change

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Speaker 1: and whatever. So you know, so maybe a lesson out

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Speaker 1: of that. And I don't know, but what you think

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Speaker 1: about this is a lesson out of that that if

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Speaker 1: you want to make change, don't think about whether this,

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Speaker 1: don't think too hard whether this is going to be

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Speaker 1: successful or a failure, but just be more more interested

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Speaker 1: in making change, making an impact and making it and

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Speaker 1: make you impact by change, like changing the way things happen.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. And the worst case, you fail but you learnt something.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, because that is the worst case, because you know,

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Speaker 1: like because I often try and reconcile this whole process

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Speaker 1: of why big funds around the world, especially vcs, are

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Speaker 1: curious to know whether you've actually failed or not, and

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Speaker 1: not in a negative way. They want to know what

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Speaker 1: you learned from your failure. And because the best, I

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Speaker 1: think the harshest lessons are the best lessons, and generally speaking,

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Speaker 1: they come out of failure.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. And well told story.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I mean, and I wonder whether these two

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Speaker 1: guys had a litany of things that didn't work so

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Speaker 1: well down to the markets, because I'm sure this wasn't

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Speaker 1: the first for it was not the first Hurrah.

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Speaker 2: No, there was a juice system or something prior before

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Speaker 2: I'm going to not get it right. So it definitely

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Speaker 2: wasn't wasn't their first hurrah.

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Speaker 1: How old are they were they when they were doing

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Speaker 1: this stuff? Is there an age thing going on?

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Speaker 2: No, they were in their forties.

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Speaker 1: Well, so it's not. So it's okay. It's only forties, seriously,

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Speaker 1: because a lot of people get nervous, Oh my god,

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Speaker 1: I'm thirty five and I haven't done anything.

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Speaker 2: You're right completely, and this business has been incredibly successful.

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Speaker 2: You know, they've reached penetrated one million homes. We have

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Speaker 2: twenty five percent brand awareness in the category. We have

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Speaker 2: over one hundred thousand reviews, and so they've achieved a

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Speaker 2: lot in their forties.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, because I mean my wizard business, I started that

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Speaker 1: into my forties. And people get panicky. They say, I'm

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Speaker 1: thirty five and I've done nothing, And I keep saying, yeah,

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Speaker 1: but no, but you're going to live to ninety these.

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Speaker 2: Days and these days will be more.

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Speaker 1: And you got there's plenty of time. You've got to

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Speaker 1: like sixty years. You've learned a lot in thirty five years,

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Speaker 1: you know, because the more you the longer you wait

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Speaker 1: to launch something. It could be looked at it in

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Speaker 1: another ways, the more I've learned before I launch it,

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Speaker 1: and therefore the less risk I take. I mean there's

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Speaker 1: nothing wrong with that. I mean it's okay to launch

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Speaker 1: a twenty as well, but like it. I mean that

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Speaker 1: you're just giving yourself a longer run runway. But there's

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Speaker 1: nothing wrong with launching a forty.

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Speaker 2: For me, No, completely, And they a proof of it.

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Speaker 1: And how so if they did in their forty, so

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Speaker 1: that that's ten years ago. So they're in the fifties now, correct,

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Speaker 1: and now they're doing very well.

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Speaker 2: The business is doing well. Yeah, I only joined eighteen

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Speaker 2: months ago, so I'm I guess new on the block somewhat.

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Speaker 2: And to your point before around the decisions you made

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Speaker 2: in your twenties or thirties, Yeah, I definitely now do

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Speaker 2: things a little bit differently.

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Speaker 1: So can I just think about talk about you a

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Speaker 1: little bit? I just want to. I was just thinking

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Speaker 1: this through. So you look pretty young to me, but

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Speaker 1: it's hard for me to work. My gray hair is natural, yeah,

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Speaker 1: and you don't have a wrinkle. So what's your background so,

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Speaker 1: and why did they choose you to be the CEO?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? So I came from family business my whole life.

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Speaker 2: I despised the idea of family business. My mum was

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Speaker 2: my dad's pa, growing up in different ventures and for

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Speaker 2: me that was not an option. I didn't want to

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Speaker 2: have my identity, you know, connected to a family business

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Speaker 2: because I was pretty independent and for me that was

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Speaker 2: a cop out, you know, like that's the path of

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Speaker 2: least resistance and that's not going to give you stripes.

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Speaker 1: So who you love most, like mum or Dad?

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Speaker 2: Well, I don't know dad, and I am a typical Gemini.

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Speaker 2: Wanted to be an investment banker, yoga instructor, so like

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Speaker 2: you know, left right brain, a bit confused at times

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Speaker 2: when and worked in finance, but grew up in the

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Speaker 2: Northern Beaches, was not overly exposed to I wouldn't say

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Speaker 2: had the right connections. You know, a lot of that

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Speaker 2: community weren't so entwined in the finance world and dabbled

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Speaker 2: my toe you know, had it in the finance space

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Speaker 2: and was pretty I guess uninspired. It wasn't overly creative,

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Speaker 2: especially at entry level. It was pretty administrative based. And

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Speaker 2: at the time my father was running a distribution of

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Speaker 2: food distribution business in the Australian market and he needed

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Speaker 2: some help in the marketing team. He had a few

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Speaker 2: open roles and he said, can you just come help

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Speaker 2: me with some presentations? And I was like, oh, nah,

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Speaker 2: I'm not really interested. He's like, come on, what just

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Speaker 2: while you're and I was like all right, all right, okay, okay,

359
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Speaker 2: went and joined him, and it was supposed to be temporary.

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Speaker 2: For me, this was like not an option that I

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Speaker 2: joined the family business and was quickly exposed to brand management,

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Speaker 2: and for me this was a really interesting, really eye opening.

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Speaker 2: Brand management is the sort of the space of the

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Speaker 2: hybrid of your left and right brain. You have commercial

365
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Speaker 2: accountability for the briand P and L, but you also

366
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Speaker 2: have to understand consumer behavior of branding, positioning, and so

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Speaker 2: you're really getting a good mix. I was like, oh,

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Speaker 2: this is fascinating. So that definitely through a spanner in

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Speaker 2: the works in terms of where I was thinking my

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Speaker 2: life would be going. And my dad came from a

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Speaker 2: sales background. He is an old school salesman, grew up

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Speaker 2: in the eighties, gambled a lot, and so for him,

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Speaker 2: a lot of the success he'd had in the Australian

374
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Speaker 2: market through this distribution business was around his relationships with retailers.

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Speaker 2: So It was very sales based and you.

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Speaker 1: Had relationship sales bean relationships, relationships.

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Speaker 2: It was like pivotal. If anyone asks, you know, for

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Speaker 2: me and the family business and whatever what happened. The

379
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Speaker 2: number one our success came down to our relationships. So

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Speaker 2: at that point in time, he was actually it's a

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Speaker 2: bit convoluted. He was the Australian arm of a New

382
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Speaker 2: z the own business, so he was running the Australian operations

383
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Speaker 2: and he had this portion of the portfolio that was

384
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Speaker 2: imported goods with absolutely no strategy. There was like briosh

385
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Speaker 2: or waffles or I mean like just random with no brands, nothing.

386
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Speaker 2: And because he would go to retailers and try and

387
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Speaker 2: sell them the manufactured goods in the business and they

388
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Speaker 2: would be like, I know you can sell me this,

389
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Speaker 2: but can you import me this? This is a globalization two

390
00:19:24,760 --> 00:19:27,040
Speaker 2: thousand and four. Can you import me this from here today?

391
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Speaker 2: He's like yes, he's a salesman, yes, just say yes.

392
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Speaker 2: I came in. I was like, you've got thirty percent

393
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Speaker 2: of your business? Is this random ad hoc imported goods

394
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Speaker 2: with no strategy? Can I flip them into in house brands?

395
00:19:35,960 --> 00:19:38,600
Speaker 2: I was always fascinated by branding as a child bus

396
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Speaker 2: posters or Forever Entertaining. My mum said, I asked way

397
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Speaker 2: too many questions and he's like, yeah, yeah. He didn't

398
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Speaker 2: really care for brands. For him, it was all about sales.

399
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Speaker 2: He was like, yeah, sure, create the brands. Anyway. So

400
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Speaker 2: I created these two brands and a year later I

401
00:19:52,160 --> 00:19:54,720
Speaker 2: was like, I'm not staying in family business. This is

402
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Speaker 2: not for me. This is not my life, you know,

403
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Speaker 2: and I left. When I worked in struct did You for

404
00:20:01,160 --> 00:20:04,920
Speaker 2: a consulting agency and the head office in New Zealand,

405
00:20:05,720 --> 00:20:08,119
Speaker 2: so we were the Australian arm of a New Zealand business.

406
00:20:08,680 --> 00:20:10,480
Speaker 2: The head office in New Zealand and said hey, can

407
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Speaker 2: you come back and clean those brands up you created

408
00:20:13,080 --> 00:20:16,560
Speaker 2: for sale. We've tried to consolidate our manufacturing facilities. It's

409
00:20:16,600 --> 00:20:18,560
Speaker 2: gone terribly wrong. The banks are used to sell the

410
00:20:18,560 --> 00:20:21,639
Speaker 2: assets you created. They're like just a six month project.

411
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Speaker 2: And I was like, all right, I'll come up back

412
00:20:22,840 --> 00:20:28,760
Speaker 2: good experience, supply agreements, cost optimizations, getting everything pretty. And

413
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Speaker 2: then my dad ended up buying those brands I created,

414
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Speaker 2: and then I was back working with my dad.

415
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Speaker 1: As she went back with he went with the brands yeah.

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Speaker 2: So that was twenty fifteen and lo and behold, my

417
00:20:42,160 --> 00:20:45,800
Speaker 2: dad probably had this grand planned all along, completely oblivious

418
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Speaker 2: to me. So I was back working with my dad.

419
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Speaker 1: He's clever, he's very clever. He got me back and

420
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Speaker 1: how long did you stay there?

421
00:20:52,359 --> 00:20:55,399
Speaker 2: So that was twenty fifteen and then we got Acquiet

422
00:20:55,400 --> 00:20:58,640
Speaker 2: in twenty twenty were approached by Sunrise to be a quiet,

423
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Speaker 2: so that wasn't on the cards. We grew, you know,

424
00:21:01,359 --> 00:21:04,679
Speaker 2: thirty percent compounded growth over five years, so it's pretty significant,

425
00:21:05,160 --> 00:21:06,680
Speaker 2: and they knocked on our.

426
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Speaker 1: Door well and in their growth phase. What did you learn?

427
00:21:13,359 --> 00:21:15,280
Speaker 2: I learned from my father had a pretty ignorant, I

428
00:21:15,280 --> 00:21:19,160
Speaker 2: guess upbringing in terms of business world. I didn't climb

429
00:21:19,200 --> 00:21:22,080
Speaker 2: the corporate ladder. I didn't have the discipline of a

430
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Speaker 2: corporate structure or like organizational management. What I learned from

431
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Speaker 2: my dad was the value of relationships were hivotal to

432
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Speaker 2: everything we did, whether it be internal or external stakeholder relationships.

433
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Speaker 2: The way we worked with retailers was single handedly. There

434
00:21:39,400 --> 00:21:41,879
Speaker 2: was other things that were really important, but that was

435
00:21:41,960 --> 00:21:44,040
Speaker 2: definitely set us apart. We knew our value proposition and

436
00:21:44,040 --> 00:21:46,280
Speaker 2: where we could win in the market, so we worked

437
00:21:46,359 --> 00:21:49,720
Speaker 2: very closely. We were reactive. We made their lives easier.

438
00:21:50,200 --> 00:21:52,199
Speaker 2: We had a lot of principles around relationships and what

439
00:21:52,240 --> 00:21:55,040
Speaker 2: could look like. We were supported by an agile structure,

440
00:21:55,080 --> 00:21:57,680
Speaker 2: so was very flat team, which means you can be

441
00:21:57,760 --> 00:22:00,960
Speaker 2: quite nimble. And we had good brands. The brands were

442
00:22:00,960 --> 00:22:01,639
Speaker 2: really distinctive.

443
00:22:01,840 --> 00:22:03,919
Speaker 1: So but just before I get the break, I'd like

444
00:22:03,920 --> 00:22:10,879
Speaker 1: you to note this. What is a good relationship with

445
00:22:11,000 --> 00:22:15,280
Speaker 1: your retailer or your distribution. What does it look like?

446
00:22:15,640 --> 00:22:17,240
Speaker 1: What does it mean? Does that means they can recording

447
00:22:17,320 --> 00:22:19,280
Speaker 1: twenty four to seven. Does it mean that you speak

448
00:22:19,320 --> 00:22:21,119
Speaker 1: to at least once a week or every day? What

449
00:22:21,119 --> 00:22:22,399
Speaker 1: does it mean? What does it look like?

450
00:22:22,480 --> 00:22:24,200
Speaker 2: So many fact, we always had a twenty four hour

451
00:22:24,240 --> 00:22:26,360
Speaker 2: response rule. So if they send an email, respond within

452
00:22:26,359 --> 00:22:29,040
Speaker 2: twenty four hours. And these are like little strategies, and.

453
00:22:29,920 --> 00:22:31,960
Speaker 1: You let them know about that, you would say.

454
00:22:31,760 --> 00:22:33,840
Speaker 2: The retailer, no, they weren't aware of that, but they

455
00:22:33,880 --> 00:22:35,600
Speaker 2: would rely. They knew that you were.

456
00:22:35,480 --> 00:22:39,520
Speaker 1: Reliable, and so that that comes down ability reliability.

457
00:22:40,040 --> 00:22:42,159
Speaker 2: And when you send them an email, think about the

458
00:22:42,200 --> 00:22:45,399
Speaker 2: next two questions they're going to ask. So predict I

459
00:22:45,400 --> 00:22:47,560
Speaker 2: guess their needs in the sense that making their life easier,

460
00:22:47,560 --> 00:22:49,600
Speaker 2: and everyone wants to send less emails. They're busy people.

461
00:22:49,640 --> 00:22:51,200
Speaker 2: Our job is to make their life easier. So it

462
00:22:51,280 --> 00:22:54,000
Speaker 2: was very much a thinking forward and what they need,

463
00:22:54,040 --> 00:22:55,560
Speaker 2: second guessing them, second guessing them.

464
00:22:55,520 --> 00:22:58,199
Speaker 1: So reliability, second guessing making their lives easier.

465
00:22:58,640 --> 00:23:01,800
Speaker 2: Listening. So when I first started in retail and going

466
00:23:01,800 --> 00:23:04,600
Speaker 2: to range review presentations, I'd build this really big deck.

467
00:23:04,840 --> 00:23:06,480
Speaker 2: I spend a lot of time, and this is in

468
00:23:06,600 --> 00:23:09,000
Speaker 2: my early twenties. I'd walk into a meeting with my

469
00:23:09,080 --> 00:23:13,680
Speaker 2: dad and he wouldn't open the deck. He'd walk into

470
00:23:13,680 --> 00:23:15,679
Speaker 2: the meeting and he'd start asking for questions, and I

471
00:23:15,720 --> 00:23:17,639
Speaker 2: was like, I invested so much time in this deeck,

472
00:23:18,160 --> 00:23:20,920
Speaker 2: when you're gonna start talking about my deck? And at

473
00:23:20,960 --> 00:23:22,760
Speaker 2: times he'd throw the deck under the table and it

474
00:23:22,760 --> 00:23:24,879
Speaker 2: would be a conversation. He would know that whether or

475
00:23:24,920 --> 00:23:27,320
Speaker 2: not whether or not the deck was going to be

476
00:23:27,320 --> 00:23:30,199
Speaker 2: beneficial to the conversation, and I'd be kicking him and

477
00:23:30,200 --> 00:23:32,159
Speaker 2: he'd be like looking at me, like this is not

478
00:23:32,240 --> 00:23:34,040
Speaker 2: the right time. So it's very much around and know

479
00:23:34,080 --> 00:23:35,920
Speaker 2: he's an old school gambler, and I think the role

480
00:23:35,960 --> 00:23:38,159
Speaker 2: of body language and understanding people's behavior.

481
00:23:38,240 --> 00:23:42,200
Speaker 1: So in other words, are picking, being intuitive, being massively

482
00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:45,760
Speaker 1: into it, because I think intuition is a massive role,

483
00:23:45,800 --> 00:23:48,920
Speaker 1: likes a big, big role. It does come with maturity

484
00:23:48,920 --> 00:23:52,919
Speaker 1: a little bit or being used to something like and

485
00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:56,640
Speaker 1: your dad had that advantage. How did you how would

486
00:23:56,680 --> 00:23:58,560
Speaker 1: you before I go to the break last one? But

487
00:23:58,640 --> 00:24:01,800
Speaker 1: how would you? Well, how you're still young? But how

488
00:24:01,840 --> 00:24:04,080
Speaker 1: have you developed your intuition? You obviously don't have the

489
00:24:04,600 --> 00:24:07,679
Speaker 1: experience of your data a long period of time, but

490
00:24:07,760 --> 00:24:11,800
Speaker 1: you're less experienced, But you obviously are exercising intuition because

491
00:24:11,840 --> 00:24:14,919
Speaker 1: you're the CEO of CO So how do you develop

492
00:24:15,160 --> 00:24:16,359
Speaker 1: your intuition quickly?

493
00:24:17,359 --> 00:24:21,959
Speaker 2: That's a good question, And I think, like for me,

494
00:24:22,040 --> 00:24:23,920
Speaker 2: taking a step back, I think one of my weaknesses

495
00:24:23,920 --> 00:24:28,080
Speaker 2: has always been quite been quite reactive observing, taking the

496
00:24:28,080 --> 00:24:33,320
Speaker 2: time to ask questions and creating a response that is

497
00:24:33,359 --> 00:24:35,320
Speaker 2: calculated in the sense that you've considered all the very

498
00:24:35,400 --> 00:24:36,520
Speaker 2: more tailors, more tailored.

499
00:24:36,720 --> 00:24:38,480
Speaker 1: That's very interesting. Then I'm going to go the breaks

500
00:24:38,520 --> 00:24:44,959
Speaker 1: as I finished this. But like I often say to people,

501
00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:50,119
Speaker 1: be aware of your personality if you're a participant or

502
00:24:50,160 --> 00:24:54,400
Speaker 1: an observer. In other words, a participant is somebody who

503
00:24:54,400 --> 00:24:57,000
Speaker 1: wants to add to the topic, you want to put

504
00:24:57,040 --> 00:24:58,840
Speaker 1: something on the table, you're you know, you can see

505
00:24:58,920 --> 00:25:03,240
Speaker 1: you're you're keen and to say something about something. Observers

506
00:25:03,280 --> 00:25:05,479
Speaker 1: they sit back and they sort of just just sussing

507
00:25:05,520 --> 00:25:08,280
Speaker 1: things out of the very strategic and they're watching things

508
00:25:08,320 --> 00:25:10,520
Speaker 1: all the time. And by the way, a gamblers like that,

509
00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:14,800
Speaker 1: a gambler sits back and waits for his hand to

510
00:25:14,880 --> 00:25:19,199
Speaker 1: be a good hand, and they're mean a bad gambler

511
00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:21,480
Speaker 1: to someone just keeps throwing on the table and doesn't

512
00:25:21,520 --> 00:25:24,639
Speaker 1: make an observation. They're watching everything about you. They're watching

513
00:25:24,800 --> 00:25:27,200
Speaker 1: how you hold your hand, and you know they're counting

514
00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:31,640
Speaker 1: the numbers. Perhaps they're counting things, and so that that's

515
00:25:32,080 --> 00:25:36,120
Speaker 1: it's quite a good analogy that you've just raised. Sometimes

516
00:25:36,119 --> 00:25:39,000
Speaker 1: if we are a participant, we've got to actually constrain

517
00:25:39,119 --> 00:25:43,640
Speaker 1: our enthusiasm, yes, to become more observant.

518
00:25:44,160 --> 00:25:48,800
Speaker 2: And I definitely default to the bit too far enthusiastic.

519
00:25:49,200 --> 00:25:51,040
Speaker 2: And so having the balance of the learnings of my

520
00:25:51,040 --> 00:25:53,879
Speaker 2: father's has been very important for my career.

521
00:25:53,960 --> 00:25:57,520
Speaker 1: So the powers of observation allow you to exercise your intuition.

522
00:25:58,040 --> 00:25:59,760
Speaker 1: And if I go back to that point, like how

523
00:25:59,800 --> 00:26:02,560
Speaker 1: you develop your intuition is actually realizing what type of

524
00:26:02,560 --> 00:26:07,280
Speaker 1: person you are, and then perhaps leaning into what your

525
00:26:07,320 --> 00:26:10,560
Speaker 1: dad does without actually becoming a gambler, but leaning into

526
00:26:10,560 --> 00:26:13,640
Speaker 1: that and using the powers of observation because you learn

527
00:26:13,840 --> 00:26:18,040
Speaker 1: so much in a room by watching and listening. Heah,

528
00:26:18,640 --> 00:26:20,080
Speaker 1: let's go to the break. Going to come straight back

529
00:26:26,560 --> 00:26:28,200
Speaker 1: back from the break. I'm here with Charlie Waters, and

530
00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:33,880
Speaker 1: Charlie's the CEO of KOH which stands for potassium hydroxide.

531
00:26:34,840 --> 00:26:38,120
Speaker 1: That's not someone's name, And we just talked about how

532
00:26:38,240 --> 00:26:42,760
Speaker 1: the founders of this particular business, which is an interesting

533
00:26:42,800 --> 00:26:47,119
Speaker 1: category of cleaning products. It sounds boring, but it's not,

534
00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:49,000
Speaker 1: and we talk about it this stuff in a moment,

535
00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:54,520
Speaker 1: and we've just been through why someone like you actually

536
00:26:54,840 --> 00:26:58,480
Speaker 1: perfectly suit the CEO role because you spend a lot

537
00:26:58,480 --> 00:27:00,359
Speaker 1: of time with your dad, learning aho lot of stuff

538
00:27:00,440 --> 00:27:03,800
Speaker 1: around sales, and probably also you learn the importance of

539
00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:10,320
Speaker 1: relationships relative to distributors distribution. Clearly, this product, the CO product,

540
00:27:10,320 --> 00:27:13,560
Speaker 1: has to be distributed. Retailers have to sell it. Could

541
00:27:13,600 --> 00:27:17,119
Speaker 1: you just before you came on though to being the

542
00:27:17,119 --> 00:27:21,640
Speaker 1: sea of this business? Did how did CO distribute its products?

543
00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:24,720
Speaker 1: I mean, obviously they now probably at this stage of

544
00:27:24,760 --> 00:27:26,640
Speaker 1: moved away from the bondo markets.

545
00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:31,600
Speaker 2: So CO was I would say, largely undiversified, heavily saturated

546
00:27:31,720 --> 00:27:33,640
Speaker 2: in e commerce one channel.

547
00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:38,000
Speaker 1: And sorry, website we're based we're.

548
00:27:37,840 --> 00:27:41,960
Speaker 2: Based part on yes, sorry, excuse the lingo, and largely

549
00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:44,399
Speaker 2: undiverse five from a category perspective, so we purely played

550
00:27:44,400 --> 00:27:46,760
Speaker 2: in surface cleaning alone, which when you look at other

551
00:27:46,800 --> 00:27:51,000
Speaker 2: cleaning categories like laundry, dish, loo so forth, we were.

552
00:27:50,800 --> 00:27:54,600
Speaker 1: Purely the surface, which means what you can multipurpose clean

553
00:27:54,640 --> 00:27:57,600
Speaker 1: the floor, clean the clean your surface is yeah, yeah, yeah, okay.

554
00:27:58,720 --> 00:28:02,880
Speaker 2: And coming into CO was the just on the back

555
00:28:02,920 --> 00:28:05,320
Speaker 2: of the COVID, let's call it riding the wave of

556
00:28:05,359 --> 00:28:08,320
Speaker 2: COVID for e commerce businesses was very positive. And coming

557
00:28:08,320 --> 00:28:10,679
Speaker 2: out of COVID, we saw, you know, consumers revert back

558
00:28:10,720 --> 00:28:12,760
Speaker 2: to brick and mortar, and you know that definitely you

559
00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:15,280
Speaker 2: saw e commerce businesses sort of stabilized in that period

560
00:28:15,359 --> 00:28:18,560
Speaker 2: and the extreme growth wasn't generally part of the trajectory.

561
00:28:20,119 --> 00:28:23,040
Speaker 2: And looking at the strategy, you know, we had been

562
00:28:23,400 --> 00:28:27,399
Speaker 2: so successful being undiversified, what does long term sustainable success

563
00:28:27,400 --> 00:28:30,080
Speaker 2: look like? So for me, very much as looking at

564
00:28:30,080 --> 00:28:33,520
Speaker 2: Ansof's matrix, it's a growth matrix markets on one channel,

565
00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:37,080
Speaker 2: products on the other sorry, one axis, and so for

566
00:28:37,160 --> 00:28:39,520
Speaker 2: us it's a market preenetration, which meant can we.

567
00:28:39,480 --> 00:28:41,480
Speaker 1: Just go back to that? Sorry? Could could they just

568
00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:44,120
Speaker 1: go back to that? So we're talking about a graph

569
00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:47,480
Speaker 1: x yxs four CONTRUC four QUI four four quadrants? Okay,

570
00:28:47,520 --> 00:28:50,440
Speaker 1: so on the four quadrants we've still got x yxs,

571
00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:54,480
Speaker 1: but it goes down to four quadrants. So you just

572
00:28:54,520 --> 00:28:59,840
Speaker 1: take me through what your analysis looks like in terms

573
00:28:59,840 --> 00:29:03,840
Speaker 1: of say CO, what was missing and what was and

574
00:29:03,880 --> 00:29:04,760
Speaker 1: what did you add? Yes?

575
00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:08,120
Speaker 2: Sorry? So CO was largely undiversified, so for me, that

576
00:29:08,160 --> 00:29:09,920
Speaker 2: meant a lot of low hanging.

577
00:29:09,680 --> 00:29:11,960
Speaker 1: Fruit, one product line, in other words, one.

578
00:29:11,920 --> 00:29:13,640
Speaker 2: Product line with a lot of tools. So we had

579
00:29:13,680 --> 00:29:18,040
Speaker 2: the universal cleaner supported with a whole accompanying mix of

580
00:29:18,040 --> 00:29:19,920
Speaker 2: tools that helped your cleaning routine. And that's one of

581
00:29:19,960 --> 00:29:22,479
Speaker 2: the unique seting points of CO is that we're an

582
00:29:22,560 --> 00:29:24,080
Speaker 2: end to end solution. We're not just giving you the

583
00:29:24,120 --> 00:29:26,560
Speaker 2: solution and leaving you out to find the tools that complement.

584
00:29:27,080 --> 00:29:29,280
Speaker 2: We're giving you the end to end, which makes it simpler.

585
00:29:29,480 --> 00:29:30,680
Speaker 1: What does that mean tool?

586
00:29:30,760 --> 00:29:33,320
Speaker 2: And I mean you can't clean your house without tools, right,

587
00:29:33,360 --> 00:29:34,960
Speaker 2: So It's almost like a lot of brands give you

588
00:29:35,040 --> 00:29:36,720
Speaker 2: just the tools, you've got to find the solution, or

589
00:29:36,760 --> 00:29:38,240
Speaker 2: they give you just the solution, you've got to find

590
00:29:38,280 --> 00:29:38,680
Speaker 2: the tools.

591
00:29:39,320 --> 00:29:40,880
Speaker 1: Give you an example of tools.

592
00:29:40,760 --> 00:29:45,960
Speaker 2: Like a mop, yeah, yeah, outbrush or a cloth, something describable,

593
00:29:46,080 --> 00:29:48,920
Speaker 2: something to do the job. I call it the CO

594
00:29:49,080 --> 00:29:50,760
Speaker 2: sort of the CO impact for me is a Steve

595
00:29:50,840 --> 00:29:53,080
Speaker 2: Jobs effect. You know, when you open up your cupboard

596
00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:57,000
Speaker 2: and you're like, what cleaning productsould I use? What tool

597
00:29:57,040 --> 00:29:59,120
Speaker 2: do I need? It's almost like you don't have that

598
00:29:59,160 --> 00:30:01,320
Speaker 2: decision to make, you know, Save Jobs for the same

599
00:30:01,360 --> 00:30:04,160
Speaker 2: outfit every day to make his life easier and simplify.

600
00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:07,120
Speaker 2: You can only make so many decisions a day. I

601
00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:09,680
Speaker 2: use the same analogy for go, you open your cleaning

602
00:30:09,680 --> 00:30:10,920
Speaker 2: covered and the thinking's done for you.

603
00:30:11,120 --> 00:30:14,880
Speaker 1: Yeah. So the product and the tool or your weapon

604
00:30:15,040 --> 00:30:17,480
Speaker 1: of choice is sitting right next to it, to it

605
00:30:17,520 --> 00:30:19,560
Speaker 1: was attached to it, to something along those lines. But

606
00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:22,080
Speaker 1: it wasn't. That wasn't the case before you could involve.

607
00:30:21,800 --> 00:30:23,680
Speaker 2: It was there. So that was there. That was that

608
00:30:23,760 --> 00:30:25,520
Speaker 2: the system was there, but it was just in stuffs

609
00:30:25,520 --> 00:30:28,280
Speaker 2: cleaning and we were just an e commerce business, right.

610
00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:31,720
Speaker 1: So the other areas categories you want to look at

611
00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:34,920
Speaker 1: were what are the types of cleaning products the market

612
00:30:34,960 --> 00:30:37,840
Speaker 1: wants and obviously there's a tool to go with it,

613
00:30:38,200 --> 00:30:41,800
Speaker 1: and how are the other ways that consumers can get

614
00:30:41,800 --> 00:30:43,400
Speaker 1: hold of it as opposed to just see commerce.

615
00:30:43,560 --> 00:30:46,160
Speaker 2: And I think in a lower consideration category like cleaning,

616
00:30:46,240 --> 00:30:49,080
Speaker 2: consumers are somewhat channel agnostic in the sense that they're

617
00:30:49,080 --> 00:30:51,560
Speaker 2: looking for convenience. It's not a high consideration category where

618
00:30:51,560 --> 00:30:53,960
Speaker 2: you're willing to, you know, go to it for a destination.

619
00:30:54,360 --> 00:30:56,880
Speaker 2: So I think whilst e commace had been largely successful,

620
00:30:56,920 --> 00:30:59,200
Speaker 2: there was a huge amount of growth potential by being

621
00:30:59,360 --> 00:31:01,280
Speaker 2: more accessible to customers.

622
00:31:00,840 --> 00:31:03,480
Speaker 1: In other words, being on shelves. Yeah. Yeah, because people

623
00:31:03,560 --> 00:31:06,760
Speaker 1: still still go to big retailers or small retails for

624
00:31:06,800 --> 00:31:10,920
Speaker 1: that matter too. People still go out and they go shopping. Yes, yeah, I.

625
00:31:10,880 --> 00:31:12,480
Speaker 2: Mean, and they're looking for convenience. If you're doing a

626
00:31:12,480 --> 00:31:15,240
Speaker 2: shop at worse, do you really want to go then

627
00:31:15,280 --> 00:31:15,760
Speaker 2: go on to it?

628
00:31:16,120 --> 00:31:16,200
Speaker 1: Like?

629
00:31:16,280 --> 00:31:17,400
Speaker 2: Is that is that part of your day? Do you

630
00:31:17,440 --> 00:31:19,040
Speaker 2: want to make life easier? I've got kids, you know,

631
00:31:19,040 --> 00:31:21,440
Speaker 2: I'm trying to reduce the amount of decision making I

632
00:31:21,440 --> 00:31:22,440
Speaker 2: have to do every day.

633
00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:25,200
Speaker 1: So you got into wool worse.

634
00:31:25,480 --> 00:31:27,360
Speaker 2: We got into a worse sorry. Yeah, So I looked

635
00:31:27,400 --> 00:31:29,840
Speaker 2: at this matrix and for me, market penetration was an

636
00:31:29,880 --> 00:31:32,240
Speaker 2: opportunity that was through new channel. So we got into

637
00:31:32,320 --> 00:31:35,520
Speaker 2: woo worse Harras Farm and then.

638
00:31:35,720 --> 00:31:37,840
Speaker 1: Can you take me through that? That's like, what's that

639
00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:39,840
Speaker 1: like to get onto the shelf for wars? Oh?

640
00:31:39,920 --> 00:31:44,280
Speaker 2: Yes, I have, I mean established quite good relationships in

641
00:31:44,320 --> 00:31:47,880
Speaker 2: the retailers and developed that trust incredibility over time that

642
00:31:47,960 --> 00:31:50,760
Speaker 2: someone that can deliver and be easy to work with.

643
00:31:51,040 --> 00:31:52,120
Speaker 1: That's prior to CO.

644
00:31:52,360 --> 00:31:53,040
Speaker 2: Prior to CO.

645
00:31:53,320 --> 00:31:54,720
Speaker 1: So we're back to relationships.

646
00:31:55,000 --> 00:31:57,760
Speaker 2: Yes, So for me, it was I called up the

647
00:31:57,800 --> 00:31:59,680
Speaker 2: various people I know were so they introduced me to

648
00:31:59,680 --> 00:32:01,280
Speaker 2: the people I needed to know in that category and

649
00:32:01,480 --> 00:32:04,120
Speaker 2: that's a warm sort of introduction that goes a long way.

650
00:32:04,320 --> 00:32:06,920
Speaker 1: Yeah. So once again back to what your dad used

651
00:32:06,920 --> 00:32:12,080
Speaker 1: to do. Well, let's build relationships relationship and that's pretty interesting.

652
00:32:12,120 --> 00:32:14,680
Speaker 1: So one of the value propositions you bought to CO

653
00:32:15,080 --> 00:32:18,360
Speaker 1: is your relationships completely, which is what your dad taught

654
00:32:18,400 --> 00:32:21,400
Speaker 1: you or what you observe from your dad, which is

655
00:32:21,440 --> 00:32:23,000
Speaker 1: something you never wanted to do. You never want to

656
00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:24,440
Speaker 1: be in the family business. But one of the great

657
00:32:24,440 --> 00:32:26,320
Speaker 1: things you've got to the family business is probably one

658
00:32:26,320 --> 00:32:29,560
Speaker 1: of the most critical aspects of opening up a new channel.

659
00:32:29,520 --> 00:32:31,960
Speaker 2: Completely and overlook these days I think we talk about

660
00:32:32,040 --> 00:32:34,400
Speaker 2: data being you know, and relationships and that sort of

661
00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:37,480
Speaker 2: emotional connection is somewhat being not overlooked but a little

662
00:32:37,480 --> 00:32:38,640
Speaker 2: bit disregarded these days.

663
00:32:38,800 --> 00:32:42,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, and so you're just just in relation to wll

664
00:32:42,680 --> 00:32:46,440
Speaker 1: wars basically just one big marketing organization that uses their

665
00:32:46,440 --> 00:32:49,520
Speaker 1: shelf space and their advertising to get people like you

666
00:32:49,560 --> 00:32:54,960
Speaker 1: to put stuff into their various categories, and they take

667
00:32:55,520 --> 00:32:57,560
Speaker 1: a marketing fee effectively in the price.

668
00:32:57,880 --> 00:33:00,680
Speaker 2: Very much like if you're an e commerce business advertising

669
00:33:00,680 --> 00:33:02,880
Speaker 2: on matter like a Facebook or Instagram, they take a

670
00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:04,480
Speaker 2: feed to be on that channel. So for me, it

671
00:33:04,560 --> 00:33:06,840
Speaker 2: was like you give Wi Worse some margin, you give

672
00:33:06,840 --> 00:33:09,000
Speaker 2: Facebook some margin, the same same, but.

673
00:33:09,040 --> 00:33:13,280
Speaker 1: Just shelf space, just facebooks is a digital digital shelf

674
00:33:13,320 --> 00:33:16,680
Speaker 1: space or as wool worst as physical shelf space. And

675
00:33:16,720 --> 00:33:20,760
Speaker 1: not everybody wants to go shopping all the time on

676
00:33:21,120 --> 00:33:23,560
Speaker 1: digital Sometimes we just actually want to walk the aisles.

677
00:33:23,760 --> 00:33:26,400
Speaker 1: It's funny. I never write a list if I were

678
00:33:26,440 --> 00:33:28,720
Speaker 1: to get some stuff, I never write a list my list.

679
00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:30,560
Speaker 1: I just walk home down the up and down the

680
00:33:30,560 --> 00:33:34,120
Speaker 1: aisles and look at the shelves, and I'm reminded of

681
00:33:34,160 --> 00:33:37,040
Speaker 1: what I needed to get because it's there in front

682
00:33:37,040 --> 00:33:38,239
Speaker 1: of me. I say, oh, my mind needs a vg

683
00:33:38,280 --> 00:33:39,760
Speaker 1: my because IM running out of jam or something like that.

684
00:33:40,320 --> 00:33:44,440
Speaker 1: And I hate lists. I can't stand lists, and because

685
00:33:44,480 --> 00:33:47,800
Speaker 1: they just sit somewhere and I never actually ever fulfill

686
00:33:47,880 --> 00:33:52,240
Speaker 1: them or fill them. So I still think, and I

687
00:33:52,280 --> 00:33:55,160
Speaker 1: don't think it's because I'm old, but I still think

688
00:33:55,800 --> 00:33:58,200
Speaker 1: walking the aisles and looking at what's on the shelves

689
00:33:58,400 --> 00:34:04,280
Speaker 1: is quite important relative to a manufacturer or someone like

690
00:34:04,320 --> 00:34:06,120
Speaker 1: yourself as a seller of a product.

691
00:34:06,960 --> 00:34:09,120
Speaker 2: I think the shelf experience brings a lot of credibility

692
00:34:09,440 --> 00:34:12,440
Speaker 2: to a brand. I think, like anything in life we

693
00:34:12,480 --> 00:34:15,440
Speaker 2: talk about marketing or distribution channels, having multiple touch points

694
00:34:15,840 --> 00:34:21,440
Speaker 2: helps build saliency or brand saliency and especially essentially credibility.

695
00:34:21,880 --> 00:34:26,280
Speaker 2: For me, coming from wholesale retail environment to e commerce,

696
00:34:26,440 --> 00:34:28,560
Speaker 2: I was like, this is the wild wild West, these

697
00:34:29,280 --> 00:34:32,279
Speaker 2: businesses that exist in this parallel universe, and you know,

698
00:34:32,880 --> 00:34:36,640
Speaker 2: the barriers to entry have become so low that anyone

699
00:34:36,719 --> 00:34:38,960
Speaker 2: can start an e commerce business now. And so therefore

700
00:34:39,000 --> 00:34:41,960
Speaker 2: I think there's a lot of you know, uncertainty around

701
00:34:42,120 --> 00:34:46,120
Speaker 2: the credibility around e commerce brands, and for me, being

702
00:34:46,160 --> 00:34:48,200
Speaker 2: a Worst was not only important from attracting new customers,

703
00:34:48,239 --> 00:34:50,919
Speaker 2: serving existing customers, but really a testament to the brand

704
00:34:50,960 --> 00:34:52,040
Speaker 2: and the strength that it deserves to.

705
00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:54,640
Speaker 1: Be on shelf. That's very interesting you should say that, Charlie,

706
00:34:54,680 --> 00:34:58,879
Speaker 1: because there sort of is an assumption right or wrong,

707
00:34:58,960 --> 00:35:01,120
Speaker 1: it doesn't matter. Maybe you could tell me how that

708
00:35:01,239 --> 00:35:04,520
Speaker 1: the process works, but there's an assumption that if I

709
00:35:04,680 --> 00:35:08,520
Speaker 1: am on the shelf at Woolworst, my products sort of

710
00:35:08,600 --> 00:35:10,759
Speaker 1: been curat curated by them.

711
00:35:10,800 --> 00:35:13,680
Speaker 2: In other words, it's worthy to be unert.

712
00:35:13,560 --> 00:35:15,400
Speaker 1: I approved it. Yeah, yeah, I mean it's not going

713
00:35:15,480 --> 00:35:19,200
Speaker 1: to poison my kids, it's not inflammable. None of these

714
00:35:19,239 --> 00:35:22,080
Speaker 1: things might be true, But is there a process Do

715
00:35:22,200 --> 00:35:28,120
Speaker 1: they actually and analyze what you're doing? I mean, when

716
00:35:28,160 --> 00:35:29,600
Speaker 1: you go to pitch them, you say, well, here's my

717
00:35:29,680 --> 00:35:32,319
Speaker 1: product that's got you know, potassium fox and blah blah

718
00:35:32,320 --> 00:35:34,759
Speaker 1: whatever it is. Do they say, well, yeah, but does

719
00:35:34,800 --> 00:35:37,480
Speaker 1: it have badh in it? Do they? Yeah?

720
00:35:37,560 --> 00:35:39,520
Speaker 2: For sure, they're looking for the claims that you make

721
00:35:39,640 --> 00:35:42,239
Speaker 2: and how you validate those claims because they you know,

722
00:35:42,320 --> 00:35:45,960
Speaker 2: in eco cleaning especially, there's a lot of words being

723
00:35:45,960 --> 00:35:47,920
Speaker 2: thrown around, Like the word eco friendly is not allowed

724
00:35:47,960 --> 00:35:51,320
Speaker 2: in the euro anymore. It's still used here because of

725
00:35:52,239 --> 00:35:57,120
Speaker 2: it not being there's not enough I guess.

726
00:35:58,480 --> 00:36:00,600
Speaker 1: Legitimacy you about the world up being you.

727
00:36:00,600 --> 00:36:03,400
Speaker 2: Know, disrespectful other players in the market. It's used quite freely.

728
00:36:03,280 --> 00:36:06,000
Speaker 1: Of coauruse people greenwash all the time. They use it

729
00:36:06,160 --> 00:36:08,600
Speaker 1: just pure marketing. It's just it's all bullshit basically the

730
00:36:08,719 --> 00:36:11,719
Speaker 1: end of the day. So and so that's interesting you

731
00:36:11,760 --> 00:36:15,520
Speaker 1: said it. Not mean that's very interesting about the shelf

732
00:36:15,560 --> 00:36:18,360
Speaker 1: space because it is a sort of nearly looks curatorial

733
00:36:18,960 --> 00:36:20,560
Speaker 1: from a from a point of view of a consumer.

734
00:36:21,520 --> 00:36:23,400
Speaker 1: It gives it relevancy and it also gives it some

735
00:36:23,760 --> 00:36:27,360
Speaker 1: seal of approval. It's like a tick. And then and

736
00:36:27,440 --> 00:36:29,719
Speaker 1: one of the things I noticed on your Instagram page

737
00:36:29,719 --> 00:36:31,680
Speaker 1: You've got quit a lot of followers for a cleaning product.

738
00:36:32,880 --> 00:36:37,040
Speaker 1: Then what is it? Just take me through the Instagram strategy,

739
00:36:37,120 --> 00:36:40,120
Speaker 1: because obviously you're on social media, need to be on

740
00:36:40,160 --> 00:36:43,080
Speaker 1: social media, get all that part. But how you are

741
00:36:43,200 --> 00:36:46,719
Speaker 1: using social media like it's nearly like I feel like

742
00:36:46,760 --> 00:36:50,920
Speaker 1: I'm going back to the fifties when you know, people

743
00:36:51,000 --> 00:36:53,320
Speaker 1: were advertising on television or something like that it was

744
00:36:53,360 --> 00:36:56,000
Speaker 1: nearly like the cleaning product was your friend, or when

745
00:36:56,040 --> 00:36:58,440
Speaker 1: the washing machines first came out, or because my mum

746
00:36:58,640 --> 00:37:00,560
Speaker 1: had a copper and I remember when washing machines coming

747
00:37:00,600 --> 00:37:04,200
Speaker 1: and became like the housewise's friend, as did vacuum cleaners

748
00:37:04,239 --> 00:37:07,840
Speaker 1: and things like that. I get that little sort of

749
00:37:08,280 --> 00:37:12,040
Speaker 1: fifties feel, but in a twenty twenty four period. Yeah,

750
00:37:12,280 --> 00:37:16,080
Speaker 1: a bit upgraded but relevant to the current environment. But

751
00:37:16,200 --> 00:37:18,000
Speaker 1: it's got a warm feeling about what you put on

752
00:37:18,040 --> 00:37:19,680
Speaker 1: your Instagram. Take me through that.

753
00:37:21,560 --> 00:37:23,600
Speaker 2: So we where we started to where we are now.

754
00:37:23,680 --> 00:37:25,200
Speaker 2: There's been a little bit of evolution, but it had

755
00:37:25,239 --> 00:37:28,279
Speaker 2: always been demonstrations, had always been a really important pillar

756
00:37:28,360 --> 00:37:32,120
Speaker 2: of our strategy in terms of delivering the points of efficacy. Right,

757
00:37:32,200 --> 00:37:34,080
Speaker 2: So that's one of our key brand pillars that we

758
00:37:34,200 --> 00:37:36,279
Speaker 2: do work. We're not just eco. I compare it to

759
00:37:36,920 --> 00:37:39,360
Speaker 2: the gluten free space, where you could previously have a

760
00:37:39,360 --> 00:37:41,520
Speaker 2: gluten free product that didn't taste good and that was okay,

761
00:37:41,719 --> 00:37:44,040
Speaker 2: but now that's evolved and you need to taste good too,

762
00:37:44,560 --> 00:37:48,279
Speaker 2: very much similar parallels in eco cleaning. Previously it was

763
00:37:48,280 --> 00:37:50,120
Speaker 2: okay to to be eco, but now we need I

764
00:37:50,239 --> 00:37:52,320
Speaker 2: need to work as well. The expectations from consumers is

765
00:37:52,360 --> 00:37:56,080
Speaker 2: definitely increased. So a really important piece of our communication

766
00:37:56,280 --> 00:37:59,480
Speaker 2: to customers is efficacy and that's best showing in demonstration.

767
00:37:59,600 --> 00:38:01,839
Speaker 2: So it works. We do a lot of before and after.

768
00:38:02,719 --> 00:38:05,400
Speaker 2: It's not always glamorous, right, and it's not overly curated.

769
00:38:05,520 --> 00:38:08,719
Speaker 2: Sometimes it's a bit raw, and that's intentional, right.

770
00:38:08,800 --> 00:38:12,160
Speaker 1: And but the warm and friendly vibe that's going on,

771
00:38:12,760 --> 00:38:15,120
Speaker 1: you know that, I don't want to sound like the

772
00:38:15,520 --> 00:38:20,120
Speaker 1: house husband's and the housewife's friend. It's very friendly and warm. Yeah,

773
00:38:20,520 --> 00:38:23,440
Speaker 1: it's got a vibe going on. It's not just it's

774
00:38:23,480 --> 00:38:25,640
Speaker 1: not one of those TV demonstrations where we're just doing

775
00:38:25,719 --> 00:38:28,400
Speaker 1: the demo. It actually sort of has a language associated

776
00:38:28,440 --> 00:38:30,720
Speaker 1: with it, like even acula.

777
00:38:30,760 --> 00:38:33,280
Speaker 2: I guess ye Adam. I think that stems from Adam

778
00:38:33,360 --> 00:38:35,560
Speaker 2: the founder. He's very hands on and has been you know,

779
00:38:36,160 --> 00:38:38,399
Speaker 2: the leader sort of in this in the innovation space

780
00:38:38,440 --> 00:38:42,360
Speaker 2: in the business. He has been extremely warm. He loves customers.

781
00:38:42,400 --> 00:38:44,200
Speaker 2: He interacts with them still to this day. He still

782
00:38:44,239 --> 00:38:46,360
Speaker 2: sits on our social channel speaking to them. And I

783
00:38:46,400 --> 00:38:48,319
Speaker 2: think that's really a testament to the love and care

784
00:38:48,360 --> 00:38:50,799
Speaker 2: we have for our customers. That is that's translated through

785
00:38:51,200 --> 00:38:53,680
Speaker 2: how we feel. We know, at the end of the day,

786
00:38:54,200 --> 00:38:56,560
Speaker 2: word of mouth is your first form of advertising and

787
00:38:57,040 --> 00:38:59,760
Speaker 2: very much have nurtured our community. That's been really important.

788
00:39:00,040 --> 00:39:02,560
Speaker 2: I think having that warm feeling people want to connect

789
00:39:02,600 --> 00:39:03,040
Speaker 2: with the brand.

790
00:39:03,400 --> 00:39:06,920
Speaker 1: So we'll co and maybe already doing it, but you're

791
00:39:06,960 --> 00:39:09,000
Speaker 1: going to explot it away from Australia.

792
00:39:08,960 --> 00:39:12,239
Speaker 2: We've one of the new markets. We've just recently launched

793
00:39:12,239 --> 00:39:13,920
Speaker 2: in New Zealand. We have a small operation in the

794
00:39:14,040 --> 00:39:17,360
Speaker 2: UK as well, but Australia is definitely our our key market.

795
00:39:17,520 --> 00:39:19,000
Speaker 2: But yeah, expansion.

796
00:39:19,239 --> 00:39:21,759
Speaker 1: You've been around, one of you guys in terms of

797
00:39:21,800 --> 00:39:25,440
Speaker 1: your category, have been around quite a long time, relatively

798
00:39:25,520 --> 00:39:28,800
Speaker 1: speaking for this category. This category being is quite defined,

799
00:39:28,880 --> 00:39:33,719
Speaker 1: but not talking about you know, like the all the

800
00:39:33,840 --> 00:39:36,960
Speaker 1: usual players in this space. I'm talking about new new players.

801
00:39:37,080 --> 00:39:39,839
Speaker 1: But you've been relatively speaking matter quite a while. How's

802
00:39:39,880 --> 00:39:42,040
Speaker 1: your marcro penetration going, because you know this is one

803
00:39:42,040 --> 00:39:44,759
Speaker 1: of the These are the basics which go back to

804
00:39:44,800 --> 00:39:48,799
Speaker 1: your experiences in terms of work. How are you going

805
00:39:48,840 --> 00:39:50,359
Speaker 1: to market penetration and what's your goal?

806
00:39:50,880 --> 00:39:54,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, so co I called the cleaning category a very

807
00:39:54,200 --> 00:39:56,520
Speaker 2: on trend. Eco cleaning is very much an on trend category.

808
00:39:56,560 --> 00:39:59,280
Speaker 2: So as a heavy saturation of players in the market,

809
00:40:00,200 --> 00:40:02,120
Speaker 2: think there'll be a consolidation in the next few years,

810
00:40:02,200 --> 00:40:04,399
Speaker 2: especially because we've seen a lot of startups come into

811
00:40:04,440 --> 00:40:07,279
Speaker 2: the space and whether or not that's sustainable. Is is

812
00:40:07,320 --> 00:40:09,120
Speaker 2: there enough room for that many players in the market.

813
00:40:09,200 --> 00:40:11,040
Speaker 2: I think time will tell. We're very well placed being

814
00:40:11,080 --> 00:40:13,320
Speaker 2: first to market. We are the largest e commerce business,

815
00:40:14,000 --> 00:40:16,160
Speaker 2: so we're very much market leader in the space and

816
00:40:16,520 --> 00:40:19,759
Speaker 2: we have the benefit of that, meaning you know, we're

817
00:40:19,840 --> 00:40:24,000
Speaker 2: very well I guess placed to keep growing the market.

818
00:40:24,040 --> 00:40:27,160
Speaker 2: I think you know we are still growing in this market.

819
00:40:27,200 --> 00:40:29,040
Speaker 2: It's challenging for a lot of businesses at the moment,

820
00:40:29,760 --> 00:40:31,920
Speaker 2: but that's like, I think, a testament to the foundations

821
00:40:31,960 --> 00:40:33,280
Speaker 2: we have for the brand.

822
00:40:33,480 --> 00:40:35,840
Speaker 1: And when you price your product, do you price it

823
00:40:35,960 --> 00:40:37,160
Speaker 1: for everyone? Yeah?

824
00:40:37,200 --> 00:40:39,320
Speaker 2: Accessible premium is like what I like to call it,

825
00:40:39,480 --> 00:40:41,960
Speaker 2: So it's not it's still accessible. We're looking for mainstream impact.

826
00:40:42,000 --> 00:40:43,200
Speaker 2: I think there's a lot of brands out there that

827
00:40:43,239 --> 00:40:45,360
Speaker 2: are happy to be and that's great. They're making an impact,

828
00:40:45,400 --> 00:40:47,680
Speaker 2: but only a small portion of the population can actually

829
00:40:47,680 --> 00:40:52,880
Speaker 2: afford or can absorb that different routine into their lifestyle.

830
00:40:53,239 --> 00:40:56,480
Speaker 2: So for us, we talk about accessible impact and premium.

831
00:40:56,800 --> 00:40:58,440
Speaker 2: We sit at about a twenty percent premium to the

832
00:40:58,520 --> 00:41:01,440
Speaker 2: mainstream environment, which for me is still accessible. It's not

833
00:41:01,560 --> 00:41:03,000
Speaker 2: too much of a stretch.

834
00:41:03,560 --> 00:41:07,239
Speaker 1: And because twenty percent on this product is not like fifty.

835
00:41:07,040 --> 00:41:11,640
Speaker 2: Bucks nor Yeah. Yeah, that's right exactly. So that's an

836
00:41:11,680 --> 00:41:13,680
Speaker 2: important part of the brand and something that I feel

837
00:41:13,719 --> 00:41:16,840
Speaker 2: quite pasionate about in times of making large scale impact

838
00:41:17,040 --> 00:41:19,120
Speaker 2: is the accessible nature of it will then return bigger

839
00:41:19,120 --> 00:41:19,839
Speaker 2: impact long term.

840
00:41:20,160 --> 00:41:22,920
Speaker 1: Yeah. And one of the things I noticed, because you know,

841
00:41:23,360 --> 00:41:27,200
Speaker 1: when you get a flood of people into an environment

842
00:41:27,480 --> 00:41:30,919
Speaker 1: when the environment is really liquid and in other words,

843
00:41:30,920 --> 00:41:34,440
Speaker 1: there's plenty of money, plenty of buyers in say like

844
00:41:34,560 --> 00:41:37,280
Speaker 1: during the COVID period, when you know, people are spending

845
00:41:37,320 --> 00:41:39,960
Speaker 1: money like crazy and they buy everything and anything at

846
00:41:39,960 --> 00:41:44,359
Speaker 1: any price. When that starts to change, those dynamics change,

847
00:41:44,360 --> 00:41:47,400
Speaker 1: which is the current environment, you start to see consolidation.

848
00:41:48,280 --> 00:41:51,000
Speaker 1: The best place people to consolidate, and you may not,

849
00:41:51,200 --> 00:41:53,480
Speaker 1: but the best place consolidated the people who've been in

850
00:41:53,560 --> 00:41:57,680
Speaker 1: the longest, generally speaking, because they've got the generally speaking,

851
00:41:58,120 --> 00:42:01,759
Speaker 1: have got their P and L right, you know, they're sustainable.

852
00:42:01,880 --> 00:42:05,160
Speaker 1: It's more sustainable as a P and L and they're not.

853
00:42:05,360 --> 00:42:09,919
Speaker 1: They're not trying to grow market share making losses, which

854
00:42:10,040 --> 00:42:13,600
Speaker 1: means you know, some of your competitors, you may be

855
00:42:13,640 --> 00:42:15,560
Speaker 1: in a position to consolidate them into you, or they

856
00:42:15,640 --> 00:42:18,320
Speaker 1: might just let them disappear. One of the two. Do

857
00:42:18,400 --> 00:42:20,000
Speaker 1: you see that's sort of happening in the marketplace and

858
00:42:20,040 --> 00:42:21,960
Speaker 1: makes you know it's a pretty challenging environment out there

859
00:42:22,000 --> 00:42:24,120
Speaker 1: economically in Australia and it's been designed to be that

860
00:42:24,320 --> 00:42:26,279
Speaker 1: like that because the governments are trying to get inflation down.

861
00:42:26,840 --> 00:42:32,759
Speaker 1: Do you see your group as perhaps being a participant

862
00:42:32,840 --> 00:42:35,520
Speaker 1: in the consolidation or you're just more likely would just

863
00:42:35,640 --> 00:42:38,240
Speaker 1: sit back and just let everybody perhaps disappear.

864
00:42:38,320 --> 00:42:40,240
Speaker 2: I think we'll sit back for them for the moment.

865
00:42:41,000 --> 00:42:42,720
Speaker 2: It's not something that we wish upon the category.

866
00:42:42,800 --> 00:42:44,800
Speaker 1: I guess like just stuff happens.

867
00:42:44,840 --> 00:42:47,239
Speaker 2: Stuff happens, and I think from an economic perspective, this

868
00:42:47,360 --> 00:42:50,040
Speaker 2: is markets. I don't think it. I don't think it's

869
00:42:50,200 --> 00:42:52,160
Speaker 2: feasible that everyone will stay around.

870
00:42:52,239 --> 00:42:54,000
Speaker 1: I don't think there's enough room now, there's too many

871
00:42:54,040 --> 00:42:54,439
Speaker 1: in the case.

872
00:42:54,360 --> 00:42:56,600
Speaker 2: It's too many in the category. And right now to

873
00:42:56,680 --> 00:43:00,279
Speaker 2: your point, with the category that we're in and disctionary

874
00:43:00,320 --> 00:43:03,880
Speaker 2: spend being not great people. Everyone is feeling the impact.

875
00:43:03,920 --> 00:43:06,239
Speaker 1: Do you see yourself as a discretionary spend or you've

876
00:43:06,280 --> 00:43:09,080
Speaker 1: got yourself in a category where you're a I'm a

877
00:43:09,160 --> 00:43:11,520
Speaker 1: non discretionary spend. I'm just they've got to buy me

878
00:43:12,200 --> 00:43:12,279
Speaker 1: you you.

879
00:43:12,920 --> 00:43:15,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think in any category there's always opportunity to

880
00:43:15,120 --> 00:43:17,520
Speaker 2: trade down. So that makes it discussion inno sense by a.

881
00:43:17,560 --> 00:43:20,279
Speaker 1: Buck or two, Yeah, it's probably. Yeah, it doesn't seem

882
00:43:20,280 --> 00:43:21,880
Speaker 1: too much of a risk of that. I would have

883
00:43:21,880 --> 00:43:25,000
Speaker 1: thought if people are rusted onto you and they're like

884
00:43:25,080 --> 00:43:27,520
Speaker 1: your product, the two bucks is probably not going to

885
00:43:27,680 --> 00:43:29,799
Speaker 1: make a great deal of difference in the total pan

886
00:43:29,920 --> 00:43:32,239
Speaker 1: l of a household at the moment, but definite if

887
00:43:32,239 --> 00:43:34,279
Speaker 1: you're thirty forty percent higher than everybody else, I think

888
00:43:34,320 --> 00:43:38,600
Speaker 1: that's yeah. If you're the competing products ten bucks and

889
00:43:38,640 --> 00:43:41,360
Speaker 1: yours is sixteen dollars, that might be an issue. But

890
00:43:41,560 --> 00:43:43,200
Speaker 1: in pricing, that's why pricing becomes so.

891
00:43:43,280 --> 00:43:48,239
Speaker 2: Important, so important pricing strategies during these periods, unbelievably.

892
00:43:47,960 --> 00:43:49,879
Speaker 1: You know when Manafod's dropping out from heaven and during

893
00:43:49,880 --> 00:43:51,919
Speaker 1: the COVID period and everybody's got money to throw around

894
00:43:51,960 --> 00:43:54,480
Speaker 1: the joint. Not a big deal, but that is not

895
00:43:55,280 --> 00:43:58,920
Speaker 1: proof of concept. That's that's proved concept in that environment.

896
00:43:59,000 --> 00:44:00,560
Speaker 2: Longevity, yeah, it's nice, improve.

897
00:44:00,320 --> 00:44:04,040
Speaker 1: A concept, it's not sustainable, and sustainability is about being

898
00:44:04,880 --> 00:44:08,640
Speaker 1: slightly above but not so much more so much more

899
00:44:08,640 --> 00:44:11,520
Speaker 1: above that the market becomes sensitive to it in a downturn,

900
00:44:11,560 --> 00:44:13,399
Speaker 1: which is what we experience it right now. That's pretty

901
00:44:13,400 --> 00:44:17,200
Speaker 1: good that you guys created that. And who strategizes these

902
00:44:17,280 --> 00:44:19,560
Speaker 1: sorts of things. How does your group work.

903
00:44:20,160 --> 00:44:22,560
Speaker 2: I'm very commercial and hands on. I'm the four p's,

904
00:44:22,560 --> 00:44:25,319
Speaker 2: you know, product, price, promotion, placement. The mix of those

905
00:44:25,360 --> 00:44:27,160
Speaker 2: things working together is the crux of the success of

906
00:44:27,200 --> 00:44:29,640
Speaker 2: the business. I'm pretty involved in those commercial decisions. And

907
00:44:29,920 --> 00:44:32,400
Speaker 2: we also have to balance being in two channels, right

908
00:44:32,480 --> 00:44:37,680
Speaker 2: e commerce vers retail. There's a big conversation at the time,

909
00:44:37,719 --> 00:44:40,040
Speaker 2: you know, is it price parody? Do you do retail

910
00:44:40,080 --> 00:44:42,839
Speaker 2: more expensive and prioritize your own channel? E com I'm

911
00:44:42,880 --> 00:44:44,719
Speaker 2: a big believer and if you're going to do a channel,

912
00:44:44,760 --> 00:44:46,880
Speaker 2: do it well, and you only get one chance. You know,

913
00:44:47,040 --> 00:44:49,920
Speaker 2: if you fail, unlikely they're going to give you a

914
00:44:49,920 --> 00:44:52,920
Speaker 2: second chance, So make sure you support that channel. And

915
00:44:53,040 --> 00:44:56,840
Speaker 2: so there's definitely a lot of wholesome conversations around commercial

916
00:44:56,880 --> 00:44:59,640
Speaker 2: strategy and how we treat the different channels and make

917
00:44:59,640 --> 00:45:02,320
Speaker 2: sure they're both able to thrive independently and we're not

918
00:45:02,440 --> 00:45:03,920
Speaker 2: prioritizing one over the other.

919
00:45:04,360 --> 00:45:06,840
Speaker 1: Well, that brings me to the other the podcast. I

920
00:45:06,880 --> 00:45:08,960
Speaker 1: actually find it quite fascinating. I'm middle like, I'm a

921
00:45:09,080 --> 00:45:13,279
Speaker 1: local person and all these days I am. And you know,

922
00:45:13,280 --> 00:45:16,960
Speaker 1: a couple of Bondi boys have built a product that

923
00:45:17,239 --> 00:45:21,839
Speaker 1: is clever and I love the fact that it started

924
00:45:21,840 --> 00:45:24,160
Speaker 1: off at the markets. I mean, that's so cool And

925
00:45:24,280 --> 00:45:26,399
Speaker 1: for all those people out there, you know, who want

926
00:45:26,440 --> 00:45:30,600
Speaker 1: to have a crack at running the business, nothing wrong

927
00:45:30,640 --> 00:45:32,440
Speaker 1: with starting off for markets. And here's a good example

928
00:45:32,480 --> 00:45:35,880
Speaker 1: of one that's probably dominant in the category, the new

929
00:45:36,080 --> 00:45:39,240
Speaker 1: This is a relatively speaking new category. So Charlie Waters,

930
00:45:39,360 --> 00:45:43,440
Speaker 1: CEO of koh but Tessi hydroxide being point five percent

931
00:45:43,480 --> 00:45:46,680
Speaker 1: of the total product and now a range of products.

932
00:45:46,880 --> 00:46:00,080
Speaker 1: Thanks very much for coming. I really enjoyed it. Do

933
00:46:01,000 --> 00:46:04,800
Speaker 1: Do Do Do, don't don't do