Speaker 1: From Schwartz Media. I'm Michael Williams filling in for Daniel
Speaker 1: and Ruby. This is seven am. When Anthony Albanesi's new
Speaker 1: ministry was sworn in this week, it was overshadowed by
Speaker 1: the axing of Ed Husick and Mark Dreyfus. Husick in
Speaker 1: particular didn't go quietly, calling Deputy Prime Minister Richard Marles
Speaker 1: a factional assassin. After a landslide victory with ninety three
Speaker 1: seats in counting, the Prime Minister had significant talent to
Speaker 1: choose from as he assembled his ministry, but the process
Speaker 1: was limited by long standing factional rules. Today special correspondent
Speaker 1: for the Saturday Paper Jason Kutsukus on whether factions help
Speaker 1: or hurt the Labor Party and the warlords who won
Speaker 1: out its Wednesday, May fourteenth.
Speaker 2: We have the largest ALP caucus in history since federation,
Speaker 2: a caucus brimming with capacity, talent and energy in both
Speaker 2: the House of Representatives and the Senate.
Speaker 1: Jason Anthony Alberanize has unveiled his new ministry this week.
Speaker 1: What did you make of the picks?
Speaker 3: Well, in a sense, it's made easy for the Prime
Speaker 3: Minister because Labour's factional system serves up the thirty people
Speaker 3: who will occupy the thirty minister or positions for him.
Speaker 3: That's predetermined. And of the thirty names that were elected
Speaker 3: to serve in the ministry by the Labor Caucus, I
Speaker 3: think the Prime Minister has done a pretty good job
Speaker 3: of putting the best talent where it is needed. Well.
Speaker 2: I've changed a ranger portfolios around. I've got people who
Speaker 2: are I think in the best positions, and that's across
Speaker 2: the board. There's been I think of the cabinet, there's
Speaker 2: been multiple changes made. That's what happens.
Speaker 3: Moving Tanya Plimusek across to Social Services I thought was
Speaker 3: a good move. He's given the National Disability Insurance Scheme
Speaker 3: to the Health Minister Mark Butler. I think that signals
Speaker 3: that there's a lot of reform still to be done
Speaker 3: to the way the NDIS is funded and the way
Speaker 3: it operates. And I think he's been given this extra
Speaker 3: portfolio for a reason to really try to put the
Speaker 3: NDIS on a long term stable footing. So I thought
Speaker 3: that was a good move. I thought keeping Chris Bowen
Speaker 3: in the Climate Change and Energy portfolio was also very wise.
Speaker 3: I think Chris Bowen's an excellent Minister, and for such
Speaker 3: a complex portfolio, there's been very little in the way
Speaker 3: of actual controversy. Chris Bowen has really kind of mastered
Speaker 3: the detail of this portfolio, and I think it makes
Speaker 3: sense to leave him there. Michelle Rowland for Attorney Generals
Speaker 3: also probably quite a good move. And then some other
Speaker 3: appointments in the outer of ministry. He's made Peter Khalil
Speaker 3: the Assistant Minister for Defense, which I think was also
Speaker 3: a just reward for Peter Khalil, who's got a long
Speaker 3: history in the national security space. And he of course
Speaker 3: held on to his seat of wills against a very
Speaker 3: determined challenge from the Greens there in Victoria, and so
Speaker 3: I think that was a good move as well.
Speaker 1: Jason, this is an overwhelmingly positive report card from you,
Speaker 1: but I want to know you mentioned a couple of
Speaker 1: times the limitations on how much Albanez you can actually do.
Speaker 1: That you use the word predetermined by the factional plays
Speaker 1: behind the decisions, and I think we saw that in
Speaker 1: the acting of Attorney General Mark Dreyfus, We saw it
Speaker 1: in Science and Industry Minister Ed Husick also getting the job.
Speaker 1: So take us back, take us back a step to
Speaker 1: how that factional system works in the first place.
Speaker 3: Well, I was reminded of what happened to another science
Speaker 3: minister in another Labor government, Barry Jones, after the nineteen
Speaker 3: ninety election. His center left faction had lost numbers in
Speaker 3: the election. Labour lost a lot of seats in Victoria
Speaker 3: in nineteen ninety and his faction decided that there wasn't
Speaker 3: enough space for all of their ministers to carry on
Speaker 3: in the new ministry, and Barry Jones was dumped from
Speaker 3: the Hawk ministry. And there was a big outcry at
Speaker 3: the time, and Barry Jones himself said that he had
Speaker 3: been dumped because of a combination of geography, simple arithmetic,
Speaker 3: and bastardry. And I think that's true today of the
Speaker 3: factional system as it was then. It's the same system geography,
Speaker 3: So which state do you come from? Simple arithmetic as in,
Speaker 3: how many members does each faction have in the caucus?
Speaker 3: So how do you then divide up the ministries according
Speaker 3: to that ratio? And then bastardry, because it's always unpleasant
Speaker 3: to see talented people Likery Jones or in this case
Speaker 3: this week, Mark Dreyfus and Ed Husick dumped from the
Speaker 3: ministry for no other reason than just, you know, really
Speaker 3: simple arithmetic and the ambition of others who are in
Speaker 3: the queue behind them, in this case the right faction
Speaker 3: in Victoria.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, But when it comes to bastardry ed Husick had
Speaker 1: some particularly choice words for Richard Miles this week the
Speaker 1: Deputy PM. He called him a factional assassin.
Speaker 3: We've had a sort of baar faced ambition and a
Speaker 3: deputy Prime minister wield a factional club to reshape the ministry.
Speaker 1: What role did Males play in the movements?
Speaker 3: Well, Richard Miles is the head of the Victorian writ
Speaker 3: is one of the most powerful right wing factional bosses
Speaker 3: in the country. And I think Richard Miles decided that
Speaker 3: he needed to keep members of his faction coming up
Speaker 3: through the ranks. So in the case of Daniel Molino,
Speaker 3: he's the new Assistant Treasurer and Minister for Financial Services.
Speaker 3: Daniel Malino is recognized I think across the Labor Party
Speaker 3: has been one of their brightest economic minds. He's got
Speaker 3: a PhD in economics from Yale and so I think
Speaker 3: that's definitely a promotion that has been made on merit grounds.
Speaker 3: But then Richard Miles also wanted to make a space
Speaker 3: in the ministry for Sam Ray.
Speaker 4: Stretching from Sunbury, Buller and Digger's Rest in the northeast,
Speaker 4: we clinch Hillside on the outer edge of Melbourne Suberbia,
Speaker 4: heading wests Melton is the geographical heart of Hawk before
Speaker 4: the Western Freeway drops down into the evocative agrarian valley
Speaker 4: where Bacchus Marsh lies at the convergence of the mighty
Speaker 4: Werribee and Loadedo rivers.
Speaker 3: Sam Ray has I think one job in federal politics,
Speaker 3: and that is when the time is right, he's got
Speaker 3: to make sure that the numbers are there for Richard
Speaker 3: Miles to succeed Anthony Alberinezi as leader of the Australian
Speaker 3: Labor Party. So I think Richard Miles wanted to make
Speaker 3: sure that Sam got a promotion into the ministry as
Speaker 3: the Minister for Aging.
Speaker 1: That's a let's just say, a fairly underwhelming set of
Speaker 1: qualifications to be a minister. It's wild to me, Jason,
Speaker 1: that you can have an election outcome like this. You
Speaker 1: have a Prime Minister writing high in the polls and
Speaker 1: yet that kind of authority, that mandate, if you like,
Speaker 1: come second to the factional system. So what happens if
Speaker 1: you don't join a faction and you're in the ALP,
Speaker 1: do you have any future?
Speaker 3: Well, I think you end up like Andrew Lee. Andrew
Speaker 3: Lee is the Assistant Minister for Productivity, Competition, Charities and Treasury.
Speaker 3: So he's what used to be called a parliamentary secretary.
Speaker 3: Andrew Lee's from one of the three seats in the Act.
Speaker 3: Thoughtful politician, He's someone who's written many books. He's a
Speaker 3: deep policy thinker, eminently qualified to serve in the actual ministry.
Speaker 3: But because Andrew is not a member of a faction,
Speaker 3: he has reached the upper limit of where he can go.
Speaker 3: I guess the other side of that, Michael, is that
Speaker 3: people who who argue in favor of the factional system,
Speaker 3: they argue that it does provide stability, and it does
Speaker 3: provide a clear and kind of certain mechanism for promotion
Speaker 3: to the ministry that everybody knows where they stand in
Speaker 3: the queue. And I think Sam Ray is someone who
Speaker 3: could bring a similar level of kind of political pragmatism
Speaker 3: to the Albanesi ministry. Just because he's a factional warlord
Speaker 3: doesn't mean he can't be a good politician or he
Speaker 3: can't contribute meaningfully to the government in a policy sense.
Speaker 1: After the break, should Albanezi have overruled the factions? Jason?
Speaker 1: What does this mean for figures like Husick Andrefus arguably
Speaker 1: reach the pinnacle of their parliamentary careers. Can you see
Speaker 1: them sitting on the back bench happily and quietly issue.
Speaker 3: Mark Corala, Mark drops refusing to say for the stream not.
Speaker 2: One look where you have a process in the Libor
Speaker 2: party caucus. You've been watching it for some time?
Speaker 3: Well, I think Mark Dreyfus, he is sixty eight, he
Speaker 3: served as Attorney general in two different governments, and I
Speaker 3: think he's had a very long and distinguished career. And
Speaker 3: I think he's also someone that is probably going to
Speaker 3: accept what's happened to him. And he has a still has,
Speaker 3: I think a role to play as a party elder.
Speaker 3: He is someone who is an enormous repository of political
Speaker 3: and legal knowledge. So I see Mark Drefus is still
Speaker 3: playing a very constructive role within the Labor caucus. Yet Husick,
Speaker 3: on the other hand, I think he's someone who's still
Speaker 3: relatively young. He sees that he's got a lot of
Speaker 3: runway left in terms of his political career and he
Speaker 3: is going to really be feeling hard done by, and
Speaker 3: I think he is going to be a problem in
Speaker 3: the future for not just the Prime Minister, but especially
Speaker 3: for Richard Miles. Ed Musick is famous for being a
Speaker 3: very determined enemy because he holds his grudges. So I
Speaker 3: think ed Musick will go to the back bench. He's
Speaker 3: he's not going to leave the Labor Party. He's not
Speaker 3: going to quit Parliament or anything. I think he's got
Speaker 3: one ambition now and that is to when he gets
Speaker 3: a chance, pay back Richard Miles for what happened to
Speaker 3: him this week.
Speaker 1: The other move that's attracted a lot of commentary is
Speaker 1: the move of Tanya Plibersek from the Environment portfolio and
Speaker 1: into Social Services. Some media outlets are calling it a snub,
Speaker 1: even a demotion. So given we know this tension between
Speaker 1: Plybasek and Albanizi, what do you make of that decision
Speaker 1: to move her from one portfolio to the other.
Speaker 3: Well, I think the relationship between Anthony Alberinezi and Tanya
Speaker 3: Plibasik is obviously very complicated. They go back a very
Speaker 3: long way when they were both I think just first
Speaker 3: joined the Labor Party all those decades ago. The fact
Speaker 3: that Tanniel Plipersek was moved from education to environment at
Speaker 3: the start of the last term became very much a
Speaker 3: focus of media attention. But I don't see being moved
Speaker 3: from environment to social services as a demotion at all.
Speaker 3: And I think social services is a kind of iconic
Speaker 3: portfolio for labor ministers. It's the biggest spending portfolio. It's
Speaker 3: a portfolio where she can really demonstrate the labor values
Speaker 3: that she is probably more closely identified with than she
Speaker 3: was as a Minister for the Environment, and it clearly
Speaker 3: had become untenable. I think for Plipisek to remain in Environment,
Speaker 3: she'd been seen to lose too many battles there and
Speaker 3: I don't think she would be the right person to
Speaker 3: then pick up and start negotiating again on the nature
Speaker 3: positive ledgislation that the government very much wants to get
Speaker 3: through the Senate in this term.
Speaker 2: Murray what Minister for Environment and Water.
Speaker 3: The Greens have already signaled that they're going to try
Speaker 3: to focus more on the environment as an issue in
Speaker 3: the next term, so they're going to be up against
Speaker 3: the Greens who again on that issue, and I think
Speaker 3: Labor has to demonstrate that it takes the environment seriously.
Speaker 3: So I think, yeah, Murray, what can really turn this
Speaker 3: into a winner for this second term Albanzi government.
Speaker 1: From the outside, the fight for positions in the new
Speaker 1: ministry looked pretty ugly. You know, any time you hear
Speaker 1: the factions mentioned in the news, it feels like it's
Speaker 1: an example of people looking after their own interests rather
Speaker 1: than the good of the country. So, given Albanezi had
Speaker 1: such a win, like such a mandate, why do you
Speaker 1: think he didn't make the call to go against the
Speaker 1: factional system. Why didn't he assert his own authority?
Speaker 3: Well? I think several things here, Michael. Firstly, despite the
Speaker 3: massive majority that Anthony Albinizi has won, he still has
Speaker 3: a limited amount of political capital to spend in this term,
Speaker 3: and I just think he didn't want to waste any
Speaker 3: of that capital trying to break down a system that
Speaker 3: is really entrenched in the Australian Labor Party.
Speaker 1: Now.
Speaker 3: The other part of it is that Anthony Alberizi is
Speaker 3: very much of the factions. He's been a factional warrior
Speaker 3: his whole political career, and I think he really believes
Speaker 3: in this system. He didn't see any need to try
Speaker 3: to challenge it or to break it down. And the
Speaker 3: other thing is that Anthony Alberinezi has come out of
Speaker 3: this unscathed. He can point to Richard Miles as the
Speaker 3: person that is primarily responsible for cutting down Ed Husick
Speaker 3: and Mark Dreyfus. So it hasn't cost him anything. He
Speaker 3: hasn't spent any of that very precious political capital that
Speaker 3: he has got to up his sleeve.
Speaker 1: Never hurts to have an assassin nearby when you need one, Jason,
Speaker 1: thank you so much for your.
Speaker 3: Time, Michael, a pleasure speaking with you.
Speaker 1: Also in the news, Susan Lee has been named as
Speaker 1: the new leader of the Liberal Party, with Ted O'Brien
Speaker 1: as her deputy. Lee is the first woman to hold
Speaker 1: the position. Immediately after she became leader, Lee's staff kicked
Speaker 1: Peter Dutton's staff out of the Liberal campaign's WhatsApp group.
Speaker 1: We'll have a full report of what Susan Lee's leadership
Speaker 1: will mean for the future of the Liberal Party tomorrow,
Speaker 1: and Jacinta namp and jimper Price says the outcome of
Speaker 1: yesterday's Liberal leadership contest is not the one she wanted,
Speaker 1: but that she's still committed to the Liberal Party, Price
Speaker 1: affected from the Nationals to stand as Angus Taylor's deputy.
Speaker 1: After Taylor was unsuccessful securing the leadership, Price withdrew from
Speaker 1: the contest. In a statement following the result, Senator Price
Speaker 1: said unity now must prevail. I'm Michael Williams. This is
Speaker 1: seven a m. Thanks for listening.