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Speaker 1: The public has had a long held fascination with detectives.

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Speaker 1: Detective see aside of life the average persons never exposed her.

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Speaker 1: I spent thirty four years as a cop. For twenty

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Speaker 1: five of those years I was catching killers. That's what

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Speaker 1: I did for a living. I was a homicide detective.

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Speaker 1: I'm no longer just interviewing bad guys. Instead, I'm taking

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Speaker 1: the public into the world in which I operated. The

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Speaker 1: guests I talk to each week have amazing stories from

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Speaker 1: all sides of the law. The interviews are raw and honest,

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Speaker 1: just like the people I talk to. Some of the

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Speaker 1: content and language might be confronting. That's because no one

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Speaker 1: who comes into contact with crime is left unchanged. Join

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Speaker 1: me now as I take you into this world. Today,

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Speaker 1: I spoke to someone who has seen a lot in

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Speaker 1: her relatively short life. I sat down had a chat

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Speaker 1: with Danny L. Hogan. She has a complicated story. We

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Speaker 1: talked about the childhood, growing up in the very posh

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Speaker 1: Sydney with some knives, and how as a teenager she

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Speaker 1: was sexually assaulted. She reported the matter to police, but

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Speaker 1: the court matter just caused her more emotional damage. She

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Speaker 1: acknowledges that that experience changed her as a person, not

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Speaker 1: in the best way, but in a reckless and selfish

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Speaker 1: way that led to her making poor life decisions. She

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Speaker 1: was living the high life as a party girl, making

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Speaker 1: money as a member of a large scale drug syndicate

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Speaker 1: operating out of Bondai. She was arrested, and in hindsight,

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Speaker 1: the arrest was probably the best thing that could have

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Speaker 1: happened to her. The media described her as a glamorous

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Speaker 1: cocaine dealer, which made her an obvious target in prison.

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Speaker 1: She was sentenced to three years and ten months and

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Speaker 1: learned a lot about herself during her incarceration. She told

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Speaker 1: me how she survived in prison and how it forced

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Speaker 1: her to look critically at her life, and also about

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Speaker 1: what she's doing now working for Confit, which is a

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Speaker 1: fitness business run by ex prisoners, and the work that

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Speaker 1: she's doing with a new business called inside Out. Was

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Speaker 1: an interesting chat. Daniel Hogan, welcome to our Catch Killers.

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Speaker 2: Thank you, thanks for having me.

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Speaker 1: Well, it's a pleasure to have you, and I know

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Speaker 1: you've had well the way I would describe an interesting life.

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Speaker 1: You've had your highes, you've had your lowers. Did you

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Speaker 1: ever think and this is a hard question first up,

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Speaker 1: but I'll you in the deep end that being arrested

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Speaker 1: by police may have been the best thing that happened to.

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Speaker 2: Look until it happened, I never would have thought it

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Speaker 2: would have been the best thing that happened to me.

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Speaker 2: But in hindsight, going to jail was literally the best

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Speaker 2: thing that ever happened to me.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, what do you reckon your life could have been

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Speaker 1: like if you weren't arrested at that stage.

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Speaker 2: To be honest, upon reflection recently, I feel like if

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Speaker 2: I wasn't arrested, if I wasn't persecuted, I would either

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Speaker 2: be a junkie or I'd be dead.

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Speaker 1: OK, so you wouldn't wouldn't have learned your lesson?

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Speaker 2: Absolutely not.

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Speaker 1: It's funny. I speak to a lot of people, and

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Speaker 1: you know, sometimes the worst thing that happens to you

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Speaker 1: in your life can turn around and then be a

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Speaker 1: positive thing.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, I never really saw it as the worst thing

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Speaker 2: that ever happened to me. I feel like so much

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Speaker 2: other shit happened to me prior to that that were

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Speaker 2: the worst things that ever happened. But this was kind

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Speaker 2: of like my saving grace. This is my opportunity to

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Speaker 2: turn things around.

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Speaker 1: Okay, And it certainly gives you a time to reflect

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Speaker 1: when you're seeing in the prison self.

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Speaker 2: It gave me a year and a half to reflect,

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Speaker 2: so I reflected.

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Speaker 1: You can look very deep inside yourself when you yeah

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Speaker 1: locked in a cage. Basically, So how does a girl

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Speaker 1: from Snives end up in jail? Because if people don't

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Speaker 1: know Snives, obviously you grew up there. I'm aware of

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Speaker 1: the area. I describe it as a posh area. A

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Speaker 1: lot of money there and even people when they pronounce

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Speaker 1: s knives syntimes.

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Speaker 2: Look, while I can, I can completely agree with you.

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Speaker 2: It's a very wealthy, posh kind of area. There is

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Speaker 2: still such a highlighted crime rate amongst sort of like

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Speaker 2: norseial area. And that's more or less where I grew

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Speaker 2: up in. So while my private school principals and teachers

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Speaker 2: would be very disappointed in me, I feel like, you know,

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Speaker 2: this was, like we said before, this is probably one

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Speaker 2: of the best things that actually happened to me. And

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Speaker 2: it wasn't necessarily a byproduct of my environment or you know,

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Speaker 2: what I grew up with, because my upbringing was fantastic.

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Speaker 2: I can't I cannot fault you know, where I grew up,

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Speaker 2: who I grew up with. However, I feel like things

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Speaker 2: just started happening to me unfortunately, and from there I

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Speaker 2: kind of a kind of spiraled, okay.

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Speaker 1: And with like I heard you talk in another interview

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Speaker 1: that you did, and you were saying about and this

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Speaker 1: is not slamming that all people live at snives, but

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Speaker 1: quite often where the parents have got their professions and

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Speaker 1: all that they're not giving the attention to the kids

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Speaker 1: that perhaps they should be. You're sending your kid to

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Speaker 1: a private school, therefore, or I must be a good,

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Speaker 1: good parent and take the eye off the ball a

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Speaker 1: little bit.

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Speaker 2: I can completely agree with that, and I'm really glad

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Speaker 2: that you raised it because look, I before before moving

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Speaker 2: to nor Shaw, I was growing up in ride Right,

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Speaker 2: so kind of like middle class area, really cool. You know,

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Speaker 2: kids would go door to door on weekends. It was

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Speaker 2: very much like an open community. And so from there, Look,

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Speaker 2: my parents did the absolute best they could and broke

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Speaker 2: their backs to give my sister and myself the best

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Speaker 2: opportunity and the best lives that they possibly could. And

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Speaker 2: to them, that meant sending us to the North Shaw,

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Speaker 2: going to private school, spending all of their finances on,

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Speaker 2: you know, the finer things, schooling, extracurricular activities, that kind

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Speaker 2: of thing. And while I can't fault that because to

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Speaker 2: anyone that would look like, you know, that's what's going

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Speaker 2: to breed success, Unfortunately it did. And we were, like

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Speaker 2: I said, we were a middle class family that was

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Speaker 2: trying to fit into a society where we didn't necessarily belong.

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Speaker 2: But the craziest thing to me throughout that I think

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Speaker 2: it was like a five or six year process, was

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Speaker 2: like we were this average family, you know, grew up

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Speaker 2: and ride, watched like Saturday morning TV, you know, had

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Speaker 2: Hash Browns. Everything was so cool, calm and collected. And

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Speaker 2: I had all of these girls that I was at

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Speaker 2: school with that had all the wealthy families and you know,

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Speaker 2: the trips overseas during school holidays. They were envious of

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Speaker 2: my family and I would literally I would never, for

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Speaker 2: the life of me understand why at the time, but

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Speaker 2: now I do, putting it into perspective. Their parents gave

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Speaker 2: them presents. My family gave me presents. Do you get

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Speaker 2: what I'm saying.

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Speaker 1: I do.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. So Mum and Dad were there twenty four seven

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Speaker 2: for anything that I needed. They were stronger connections exactly

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Speaker 2: right till this day, they're still there constantly. You know,

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Speaker 2: we're such a strong family unit. And that's the first

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Speaker 2: thing that I noticed growing up in the North sure

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Speaker 2: is that, you know, while the finances were there and

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Speaker 2: the parents could you know, push them to anything or

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Speaker 2: take them overseas whatever, they weren't there. They weren't a

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Speaker 2: family unit. There was no trust, there was no there

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Speaker 2: was no real connection. So yeah, having some of my

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Speaker 2: closest friends at such a young age being like, oh,

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Speaker 2: we love we love your mom, we love your dad, like.

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Speaker 1: You know, because there was more family unit.

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Speaker 2: For the life of me at the time, I couldn't

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Speaker 2: understand why. I was like why, bro, Like your your

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Speaker 2: family's taking you to Hawaii. I'm going to terrible. But

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Speaker 2: now in retrospect, like, that's that's all I could have

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Speaker 2: asked for. Like, that's that's all to me growing up

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Speaker 2: as a child, that's what you need. You need both

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Speaker 2: parents hands on deck. You need parents that genuinely cared.

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Speaker 2: Till this day, my dad helps me write resumes, freaking

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Speaker 2: public talks like helps me do the most, and that

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Speaker 2: means so much more than you know financial gain.

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Speaker 1: And so with what you've been through, and I know

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Speaker 1: you've You've paid tribute to your family, the support that

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Speaker 1: you got, the they never abandoned you when you're in trouble,

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Speaker 1: and the embarrassing the family name, and they still hung

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Speaker 1: in there with you.

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Speaker 2: Oh, you have no idea. We got calls from literally

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Speaker 2: England from family members over there saying, ah, do you

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Speaker 2: know that your daughter Danielle was like currently on the

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Speaker 2: news for selling drugs. So yeah, the look, the embarrassment

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Speaker 2: didn't stop for many years. But my family always from

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Speaker 2: day dots saw so much in me, saw so much,

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Speaker 2: saw my potential, saw that you know, everything that I

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Speaker 2: was going through, unfortunately was it was horrible, all the

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Speaker 2: all the years that I encountered of so much bullshit,

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Speaker 2: but they always knew within them that I was going

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Speaker 2: to come out on the other end. Yeah, that there

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Speaker 2: was there was reason behind what I was going through

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Speaker 2: and that's and that's what I'm living now.

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Speaker 1: So and the importance of having that family support, and

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Speaker 1: I'm sure you saw it when you're in prison, that

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Speaker 1: people with support on the outside, what the difference that

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Speaker 1: can make.

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Speaker 2: And that's exactly why I do what I do now.

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Speaker 2: And the values that I live by and the business

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Speaker 2: that I've started now, and the reason that I'm with

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Speaker 2: businesses that I work with now is because every single

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Speaker 2: day in there was a reminder that I am so

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Speaker 2: much luckier and so much more fortunate than ninety percent

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Speaker 2: of the women in there. You know, I would wait

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Speaker 2: fifteen minutes in line for phone calls in jail, and

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Speaker 2: I would you'd naturally watch everyone you know that's jumping

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Speaker 2: on the phones, and half the time they'd have no

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Speaker 2: one to call, you know, they'd pick up the phone,

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Speaker 2: some people wouldn't answer, or they're calling friends that they've

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Speaker 2: known for five minutes. There's no support on the outside.

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Speaker 2: And so this is why it really gave me the

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Speaker 2: drive to start what I do now into creating a

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Speaker 2: support community for women that are going through what they're

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Speaker 2: going through.

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Speaker 1: We want to and I want to talk very deeply

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Speaker 1: about what happens in a women's prison and how there's

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Speaker 1: a neglect. And I came to the realization of that

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Speaker 1: sitting down having people on the podcast, and we always

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Speaker 1: the perception of jails are filled with men, and we've

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Speaker 1: all got seen the jail movies and everything else that's

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Speaker 1: in our head, but we don't often think about women

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Speaker 1: in prison, and there's a neglect there. But we'll talk

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Speaker 1: about that later on. And I just want to say

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Speaker 1: in prison and we'll have a deep dive into it.

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Speaker 1: You going into prison growing up where you did, with

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Speaker 1: the media that you had, I reckon you probably had

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Speaker 1: a tough time when you first went into prison because

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Speaker 1: it's not an environment that you would have been familiar

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Speaker 1: with or ever expected yourself to be.

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Speaker 2: That's exactly right. Look, the media attention was literally a

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Speaker 2: sentence in itself. The thing that really upset me the

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Speaker 2: most about that is all of the headlines, everything that

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Speaker 2: was put out was so bullshit to the point that

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Speaker 2: not only was it embarrassing for me. I didn't mind

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Speaker 2: that because I was the one that commit the crime,

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Speaker 2: so I was like, fuck it, whatever, I'll wear it.

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Speaker 2: But the fact that it then created, you know, issues

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Speaker 2: for my family, it was embarrassing. You know. There were

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Speaker 2: certain things like, oh, glamorous BONDI influencer, this that the other,

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Speaker 2: with her spend all the drug money on her designer bags, whatever,

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Speaker 2: I shop a Kmart like, it's not. They made such

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Speaker 2: a big deal out of it, to the point where

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Speaker 2: I even remember the arresting officer, well, one of the

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Speaker 2: arresting officers as he was putting handcuffs on me, apologized

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Speaker 2: and said, we're literally going to make an example out

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Speaker 2: of you, you know, because the media, the news, they're

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Speaker 2: so sick of seeing let's say, men from western Sydney suburbs,

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Speaker 2: they're sick of seeing you know, X y Z for

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Speaker 2: selling drugs.

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Speaker 1: Still was knocked in. Then the police right, and then

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Speaker 1: you in someone that.

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Speaker 2: They wanted an you know, above average looking girl from

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Speaker 2: eastern suburbs. They wanted that. They wanted that clickbait.

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Speaker 1: Well, your headlines were glamorously some Suburbs drug dealer arrested.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, that's going to attract attention. But that would

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Speaker 1: have put pressure on you going into prison. And also

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Speaker 1: it's not an environment you'd be for me with I

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Speaker 1: sit opposite people. I came in contact with people, and

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Speaker 1: I know people that realized very early in their life

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Speaker 1: at some point in time, they were going to end

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Speaker 1: up in prison, so they prepare themselves mentally for it.

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Speaker 1: That wasn't the case with you. So we will take

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Speaker 1: you there what it felt like when you're arrested. But

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Speaker 1: we'll find out a little bit more about about your life.

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Speaker 1: So growing up, moved from ride Over the Snives competing

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Speaker 1: with the people in the high income area of Snives.

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Speaker 2: Describe your childhood before moving to Noshaw. My childhood was beautiful. Honestly,

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Speaker 2: I can't faulter it. You know, everyone says trauma derives

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Speaker 2: from childhood, and this is what has confused me throughout

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Speaker 2: so many years of my life. I'll sit with counselors, therapist, whatever,

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Speaker 2: and everyone's saying, no, you're trauma's from childhood. I'm like, no,

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Speaker 2: it's not. Like. My childhood was awesome. I had such

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Speaker 2: a loving mom and dad that would go to any

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Speaker 2: extent to see myself and my sister happy. I was

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Speaker 2: the best kid ever, and my parents will say that.

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Speaker 2: Any adult that was around me until fourteen fifteen will say,

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Speaker 2: you know, she was such a loving, open, outgoing girl.

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Speaker 2: From the second that I could speak, I would speak

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Speaker 2: to anyone about anything, you know. I just had such

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Speaker 2: a love for life, and I definitely learned that off

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Speaker 2: my mom and dad. So we'd be sitting at restaurants

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Speaker 2: and la lah, Like if I was battling, I would

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Speaker 2: just want to chat because I saw I would see

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Speaker 2: the innocence in everyone I would see. You know that

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Speaker 2: the world was actually such an amazing place. I was

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Speaker 2: so inclusive. So when I moved to these private schools,

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Speaker 2: I brought that inclusivity with me. You know, I was

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Speaker 2: seen as like the popular girl, and yet I would

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Speaker 2: want everyone sitting with us in a massive circle at

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Speaker 2: lunchtime because all I wanted was for everyone to feel seen,

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Speaker 2: heard and loved. Right. So that continued until I think

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Speaker 2: year eight. I was then sexually assaulted, and then at

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Speaker 2: that point my life completely turned upside down. To stole

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Speaker 2: your innocence, absolutely, it did so.

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Speaker 1: And look at us before we started the podcast when

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Speaker 1: we're having chat the other day, and you said, it's

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Speaker 1: all right to talk about it absolutely. How old were

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Speaker 1: you and what do you care to tell us about

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Speaker 1: what happened?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so I was fourteen, I think fourteen or fifteen,

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Speaker 2: So what had basically happened? I was at this at

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Speaker 2: this point in time, I had moved schools. I was

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Speaker 2: in year eight, so I was at a performing arts

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Speaker 2: school doing what I love, which is dancing. So you know,

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Speaker 2: that innocence was so we was so still very much there,

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Speaker 2: and I at an under eighteen's event. One night, dancing

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Speaker 2: away doing what I love. I was with my best

286
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Speaker 2: friend whatever else. We met these guys and in my head,

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Speaker 2: I thought, oh, it's nothing. You know, they're friends. I

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Speaker 2: was at a co ed school at the time, so

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Speaker 2: I thought, you know, boys or boys, they're nothing whatever.

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Speaker 2: So started chatting to this bloke that lied about his

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Speaker 2: age and wanted to meet me one day at Westfield,

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Speaker 2: close by to my school. I honestly thought nothing of it.

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Speaker 2: I thought, you know, this happens every day I go

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Speaker 2: to school with boys. You know, we can we have

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Speaker 2: a friendship. Whatever. Anyway, there were several of us there,

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Speaker 2: and look, push came to shove, and then you know,

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Speaker 2: as perpetrators do, let's go for a walk, Let's do this,

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Speaker 2: let's do that. So yeah, I went for a walk

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Speaker 2: in the park. There was several of us, like I said,

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Speaker 2: and then you know, I fly started sort of dropping off.

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Speaker 2: I think everyone started reading the room except for me,

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Speaker 2: and yeah, I was left to my lonesome with two men.

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Speaker 2: And from there, yeah, it just turned into my worst nightmare.

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Speaker 2: And I didn't really understand what had happened until several

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Speaker 2: days later. So I actually called the my friend that

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Speaker 2: was actually like there. Several moments before it happened, I

307
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Speaker 2: called her and I said, I think I've been raped,

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Speaker 2: but I can't, like, I don't know, you know, I

309
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Speaker 2: was almost frozen to the fact, you know, I've The

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Speaker 2: amazing thing about my family is that it's also a downfall.

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Speaker 2: I grew up in a family where the world was

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Speaker 2: so perfect, everything was so amazing innocence, right, So we

313
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Speaker 2: didn't talk about real shit. We didn't talk about when

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Speaker 2: bad things happen, what do you do? So something bad

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Speaker 2: had occurred to me, and I didn't know how to

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Speaker 2: handle it because I didn't know if it was my

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Speaker 2: fault or if it was actually as bad as what

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Speaker 2: I thought it was. So I kind of kept it hidden.

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Speaker 2: And then maybe about I think it was about a

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Speaker 2: month later, my pe teacher pulled that same girl aside

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Speaker 2: and said, Danielle's not acting normal. Has something happened? And

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Speaker 2: my friend at the time broke down into tears and said,

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Speaker 2: you know, she called me and said XYZ happened. And

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Speaker 2: then the pea teacher pulled me aside that afternoon and said,

325
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Speaker 2: has something happened to you? And I said, oh, I like,

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Speaker 2: I think so, but I don't know, like maybe I

327
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Speaker 2: asked for it. Maybe, And this is the problem, right, I've.

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Speaker 1: Seen serious thing about sexual assaults, correct, especially with young

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Speaker 1: young victims.

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Speaker 2: Exactly none that I've ever been through that before, Like

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Speaker 2: I unfortunately lost my virginity of these people. So in

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Speaker 2: my mind, I was like, is it their fault? Is

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Speaker 2: it my fault? I don't know. So anyway, ended up

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Speaker 2: telling my pe teacher. She told the principal. I got

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Speaker 2: pulled into the principal's office and while they were so

336
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Speaker 2: decent about the ordeal, and we're like, we're here for you,

337
00:18:05,040 --> 00:18:07,879
Speaker 2: da da da da, they said, look, we're giving you

338
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Speaker 2: the opportunity to go home and tell your family. Otherwise

339
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Speaker 2: in the next twenty four hours, like we have to

340
00:18:12,600 --> 00:18:15,119
Speaker 2: tell the police, like we have to report this report,

341
00:18:15,359 --> 00:18:18,640
Speaker 2: exactly right. So I thought, okay, no, I don't want

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Speaker 2: that because there was that shame element in the back

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Speaker 2: of my head still, right, So I went home. Funnily enough,

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Speaker 2: I actually don't remember this. My family have told me

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Speaker 2: ever since. So I went home. I think I texted

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Speaker 2: my older sister and I said, something bad has happened.

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Speaker 2: You need to come home now. I need to tell you.

348
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Speaker 2: And I told her, and then she did the same thing.

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Speaker 2: She texted my mum and said, something's happened to Danny.

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Speaker 2: You need to come home. My parents work sort of

351
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Speaker 2: like nine to five, so they were like, she said,

352
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Speaker 2: you need to come home now, you need, like Danny

353
00:18:53,880 --> 00:18:57,239
Speaker 2: has to tell you something. They both came home and

354
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Speaker 2: I said, I don't want to tell Dad. And again

355
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Speaker 2: that falls back on that whole shame element of like,

356
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Speaker 2: I don't want to disappoint my dad. I don't. I

357
00:19:06,920 --> 00:19:08,720
Speaker 2: don't want him to. You know, my dad was my

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Speaker 2: best friend at the time, so it still is. So

359
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Speaker 2: I said, you know, I don't want Dad hearing it

360
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Speaker 2: about this. So I told Mum what had happened, and

361
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Speaker 2: then immediately Mum was like, no, let's call the police.

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Speaker 2: Da da da DA. Report was made and then yeah,

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Speaker 2: found ourselves in court.

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Speaker 1: How did that play out for you? Because it's traumatic,

365
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Speaker 1: isn't it? The way you just described that, I think

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Speaker 1: you took everyone into that situation you find yourself in.

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Speaker 1: You don't even know what's happened. That you're young, you're

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Speaker 1: innocent and earn that's happened, and then the will start turning.

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Speaker 1: You've spoken to people, obviously it had an impact on you.

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Speaker 1: Other people noticed, and then you go to the police.

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Speaker 1: You've got to relay the whole story to the police,

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Speaker 1: and then the matter goes to court. How was that

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Speaker 1: whole experience for you?

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Speaker 2: And that was honestly, that was the hardest part. So

375
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Speaker 2: that was the first time I had faced the digital system,

376
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Speaker 2: and honestly, it let me down. So you hear, like, well,

377
00:20:06,000 --> 00:20:08,880
Speaker 2: now in my line of work, But prior to that,

378
00:20:09,160 --> 00:20:11,920
Speaker 2: you know, I've had so many encounters with friends at

379
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Speaker 2: such a young age that have said that they've been

380
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Speaker 2: through something similar and I'm like, dude, that's assault, like that,

381
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Speaker 2: that's rape, you know. But there's there's so many women

382
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Speaker 2: that aren't willing to share their stories or go to

383
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Speaker 2: police about it. And I hate to admit it, but

384
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Speaker 2: I actually understand why. So at such a young age,

385
00:20:29,280 --> 00:20:33,040
Speaker 2: you know, we talk it to the police, the report

386
00:20:33,160 --> 00:20:36,359
Speaker 2: was made, we went through the whole sentencing situation. But

387
00:20:36,480 --> 00:20:41,080
Speaker 2: because of unfortunately that same friend of mine at the

388
00:20:41,080 --> 00:20:44,439
Speaker 2: time lying about where she was and lying about the

389
00:20:44,520 --> 00:20:48,280
Speaker 2: day and what had happened, it turned into this entire call.

390
00:20:48,280 --> 00:20:53,359
Speaker 2: Although there was CCTV footage and you know, everything was

391
00:20:53,480 --> 00:20:57,920
Speaker 2: kind of proven except the initial assault, it turned into,

392
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Speaker 2: you know, the the defendant's representatives basically saying to me,

393
00:21:04,359 --> 00:21:07,080
Speaker 2: why are you lying about this? Why would you put

394
00:21:07,080 --> 00:21:09,560
Speaker 2: that upon someone? Why would you ruin someone's life? Da

395
00:21:09,640 --> 00:21:12,000
Speaker 2: da da da da? And I'm fourteen No sorry, I

396
00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:14,439
Speaker 2: was fifteen at this point. I don't know how to

397
00:21:14,480 --> 00:21:18,280
Speaker 2: handle that. Yeah, you know, so I'm not answering questions

398
00:21:18,320 --> 00:21:22,480
Speaker 2: in the way that was deemed necessary. I completely shut down.

399
00:21:22,560 --> 00:21:25,040
Speaker 2: I was made out to be a liar and that

400
00:21:25,119 --> 00:21:31,280
Speaker 2: broke my heart. So unfortunately, the abuses weren't even charged.

401
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Speaker 2: I think at best they received abos.

402
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Speaker 1: When you say charged, they weren't.

403
00:21:35,920 --> 00:21:39,960
Speaker 2: They weren't convicted yet, they weren't convicted. So that was

404
00:21:40,040 --> 00:21:41,639
Speaker 2: just such a kick in the mouth to me at

405
00:21:41,680 --> 00:21:44,200
Speaker 2: such a young age, because I thought the system that

406
00:21:44,320 --> 00:21:47,840
Speaker 2: was supposed to protect me, the one place that I

407
00:21:47,920 --> 00:21:51,640
Speaker 2: was so scared and so vulnerable being in, pretty much

408
00:21:51,640 --> 00:21:54,240
Speaker 2: turned against me saying that no, you're a liar, No,

409
00:21:54,400 --> 00:21:57,480
Speaker 2: this is this, this is that, that's not really what happened.

410
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Speaker 2: So in my mind from there, honestly, that just changed

411
00:22:01,359 --> 00:22:04,160
Speaker 2: me as a person. That made me feel like, what's

412
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Speaker 2: the point of being honest anymore? What's the point of

413
00:22:06,040 --> 00:22:09,960
Speaker 2: being vulnerable. What's the point in being this loving person

414
00:22:10,040 --> 00:22:13,200
Speaker 2: that just this young girl that loved everyone, that loved life,

415
00:22:13,880 --> 00:22:16,040
Speaker 2: because fuck it, look look at what happens when I

416
00:22:16,080 --> 00:22:19,800
Speaker 2: am you know. So that that was honestly the turning

417
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Speaker 2: point in my life.

418
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Speaker 1: And with that you could recognize that you change, you

419
00:22:24,920 --> 00:22:27,560
Speaker 1: change your complete outlook on off one hundred percent.

420
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Speaker 2: I went from this girl that was so trusting and

421
00:22:30,520 --> 00:22:34,520
Speaker 2: loving and positive to just now, I'm here for myself,

422
00:22:34,560 --> 00:22:39,720
Speaker 2: I'm selfish, I'm I'm whatever, it doesn't matter anymore. And

423
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Speaker 2: the saddest part of that was I wholeheartedly respected myself.

424
00:22:45,600 --> 00:22:49,960
Speaker 2: There's you know, at that fourteen fifteen age. Unfortunately, there's

425
00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:53,119
Speaker 2: so many girls that are losing their virginity when you

426
00:22:53,160 --> 00:22:55,720
Speaker 2: don't have the maturity to do so. And I held

427
00:22:55,760 --> 00:22:58,040
Speaker 2: on to that. I was proud of that. But then

428
00:22:58,320 --> 00:23:01,720
Speaker 2: after that had happened, look the way that I see

429
00:23:01,800 --> 00:23:05,840
Speaker 2: and in my experience, when people are sexually assaulted, it

430
00:23:05,880 --> 00:23:09,520
Speaker 2: goes one of two ways. You either lose or your

431
00:23:09,520 --> 00:23:12,800
Speaker 2: self respect or your personal space. You don't give a

432
00:23:12,800 --> 00:23:15,160
Speaker 2: shit about your body, who you are as a person,

433
00:23:15,480 --> 00:23:19,600
Speaker 2: your identity, or you're completely caged in you don't let

434
00:23:19,640 --> 00:23:23,679
Speaker 2: anyone in. You know, you're terrified of life. I've seen this.

435
00:23:23,720 --> 00:23:25,840
Speaker 2: I've seen this for the last few years now. I

436
00:23:25,920 --> 00:23:29,520
Speaker 2: went the first way I no longer cared I had

437
00:23:29,760 --> 00:23:32,680
Speaker 2: in my mind. I was stripped of my identity, my respect,

438
00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:39,600
Speaker 2: my everything. So from there I was kindage like I

439
00:23:39,720 --> 00:23:41,679
Speaker 2: just I was mad at the world.

440
00:23:42,160 --> 00:23:46,200
Speaker 1: And no respect for yourself and reckless in life choices

441
00:23:46,280 --> 00:23:47,040
Speaker 1: and nothing.

442
00:23:47,119 --> 00:23:50,760
Speaker 2: I thought, fuck it if. It's almost as if I

443
00:23:50,840 --> 00:23:54,439
Speaker 2: tried so hard for so many years to be this person,

444
00:23:54,520 --> 00:23:58,920
Speaker 2: this loving, genuine human being that cared about so much,

445
00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:01,880
Speaker 2: cared about everyone else, and I was the problem solver

446
00:24:01,960 --> 00:24:04,639
Speaker 2: at school, right. Everyone would come to me when they

447
00:24:04,640 --> 00:24:07,600
Speaker 2: had issues, and so as soon as I had an issue,

448
00:24:07,600 --> 00:24:12,000
Speaker 2: as soon as something had happened to me, I was going, well,

449
00:24:12,160 --> 00:24:16,120
Speaker 2: who's there, what's you know, what's the point anymore? So

450
00:24:16,359 --> 00:24:19,520
Speaker 2: it's almost I flipped a complete one eighty. I just

451
00:24:19,520 --> 00:24:22,320
Speaker 2: became this entirely different version. My parents literally called me

452
00:24:22,320 --> 00:24:25,200
Speaker 2: an alien, like I was, you know, completely.

453
00:24:25,520 --> 00:24:28,480
Speaker 1: At that age too. Like it's such a difficult age

454
00:24:28,480 --> 00:24:29,120
Speaker 1: in life.

455
00:24:28,920 --> 00:24:30,720
Speaker 2: Isn't You form your identity.

456
00:24:30,359 --> 00:24:34,640
Speaker 1: And so you have something that happens like that, and

457
00:24:34,680 --> 00:24:38,520
Speaker 1: the impact that's had on you, and I can see

458
00:24:38,520 --> 00:24:40,639
Speaker 1: the emotion in your face when you talk about it.

459
00:24:41,840 --> 00:24:43,240
Speaker 1: How you carry that with you.

460
00:24:43,600 --> 00:24:48,320
Speaker 2: I've definitely dealt with it. I just I'm upset only

461
00:24:48,359 --> 00:24:54,040
Speaker 2: because I let one event determine the next ten years

462
00:24:54,040 --> 00:24:56,760
Speaker 2: of my life, who I am, how I carry myself,

463
00:24:56,800 --> 00:25:00,560
Speaker 2: how I let others treat me. I let one bad

464
00:25:00,640 --> 00:25:02,880
Speaker 2: thing determine those next few years.

465
00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:05,120
Speaker 1: So it's almost like low self esteem.

466
00:25:05,440 --> 00:25:07,360
Speaker 2: It was wholeheartedly.

467
00:25:07,480 --> 00:25:08,680
Speaker 1: Are you what you described me?

468
00:25:08,800 --> 00:25:13,360
Speaker 2: I lost everything I was. Teachers and parents and friends

469
00:25:13,359 --> 00:25:16,040
Speaker 2: and everyone will testament to this, like I was the

470
00:25:16,080 --> 00:25:19,760
Speaker 2: most confident, outgoing, didn't give a shit about what anyone thought.

471
00:25:19,920 --> 00:25:24,160
Speaker 2: You know, I hadn't had all these layers of judgment

472
00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:28,080
Speaker 2: and pressure and everything responsibility. I had none of this

473
00:25:28,119 --> 00:25:30,680
Speaker 2: stuff placed upon me yet. So it's like as soon

474
00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:34,520
Speaker 2: as that initial event had happened, it's like everything came

475
00:25:34,560 --> 00:25:36,679
Speaker 2: with it. So I turned into this shell of a

476
00:25:36,720 --> 00:25:41,080
Speaker 2: human being. And then that it literally related how everyone

477
00:25:41,119 --> 00:25:42,480
Speaker 2: was going to treat me for the next few years,

478
00:25:42,520 --> 00:25:43,880
Speaker 2: what I allowed for the next few years.

479
00:25:44,920 --> 00:25:48,920
Speaker 1: Describe those years like how reckless, like horrifying.

480
00:25:49,119 --> 00:25:56,639
Speaker 2: I this is where mental health became so alarming to me.

481
00:25:56,920 --> 00:26:01,280
Speaker 2: At this point. Before then, depression didn't exist, anxiety didn't exist,

482
00:26:01,320 --> 00:26:05,879
Speaker 2: PTSD didn't exist. Nothing. All that existed prior to that

483
00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:10,960
Speaker 2: was like confidence, motivation, you know, what you could expect

484
00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:15,560
Speaker 2: off of a child innocence, right, So now all that

485
00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:18,760
Speaker 2: was there was like constantly trying to prove to other

486
00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:22,520
Speaker 2: people that I'm not a victim, that I'm okay. So

487
00:26:23,680 --> 00:26:26,600
Speaker 2: it meant putting on a facade. And I was put

488
00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:30,400
Speaker 2: through from that initial assault. I was put through four

489
00:26:30,440 --> 00:26:33,800
Speaker 2: different schools and that was in the space of two years.

490
00:26:33,160 --> 00:26:35,119
Speaker 1: Is how reckless you became?

491
00:26:35,400 --> 00:26:39,880
Speaker 2: Extremely, extremely I'm not about to blame it on external

492
00:26:39,920 --> 00:26:42,560
Speaker 2: forces saying that it was other people. Obviously I was around,

493
00:26:42,800 --> 00:26:46,040
Speaker 2: you know, all of these people that had mommy and

494
00:26:46,080 --> 00:26:50,400
Speaker 2: daddy's money, but they were also going through shit, you know.

495
00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:53,320
Speaker 2: And this is the one thing that I can't stand

496
00:26:53,320 --> 00:26:55,960
Speaker 2: about the North Shore is that everyone thinks just because

497
00:26:56,520 --> 00:26:58,879
Speaker 2: it's a wealthy area doesn't mean things go on. So

498
00:26:59,080 --> 00:27:03,240
Speaker 2: much shit goes on, but everything's pushed down, everything's pushed out,

499
00:27:03,320 --> 00:27:06,080
Speaker 2: everything's forgotten about why because oh, they've got money, so

500
00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:09,040
Speaker 2: it doesn't matter. Yeah, you know, they can afford counselors,

501
00:27:09,080 --> 00:27:11,760
Speaker 2: they can you know, everything is pushed.

502
00:27:11,480 --> 00:27:14,680
Speaker 1: Away, and without being critical on people that can live

503
00:27:14,680 --> 00:27:17,520
Speaker 1: in those areas, I think the perception of how others

504
00:27:17,560 --> 00:27:19,840
Speaker 1: see them is very important as well, because a lot

505
00:27:19,840 --> 00:27:23,400
Speaker 1: of it is a flashing money and look our lives.

506
00:27:23,119 --> 00:27:28,200
Speaker 2: Perfect exactly And in turn, to be honest, like that's

507
00:27:28,240 --> 00:27:31,600
Speaker 2: exactly what happened to me. Everyone was seeing this and

508
00:27:31,640 --> 00:27:34,560
Speaker 2: it says it in those freakin' headlines on the media,

509
00:27:34,760 --> 00:27:40,080
Speaker 2: like everyone looked in as this Danielle party girl, live

510
00:27:40,119 --> 00:27:44,520
Speaker 2: this lavish life, whatever else. So I almost got to

511
00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:48,760
Speaker 2: that point where I thought that that was my identity,

512
00:27:48,880 --> 00:27:52,040
Speaker 2: so I wouldn't settle for anything less than meaning everyone

513
00:27:52,080 --> 00:27:55,480
Speaker 2: saw me as this fun, outgoing girl years before, so

514
00:27:55,560 --> 00:27:58,000
Speaker 2: I had to maintain that by any means, and that

515
00:27:58,160 --> 00:28:01,320
Speaker 2: meant taking drugs, that meant doing whatever I could to

516
00:28:01,320 --> 00:28:03,840
Speaker 2: get back into that headspace so that everyone saw me

517
00:28:03,920 --> 00:28:07,719
Speaker 2: as this fun, outgoing life of the party, not this victim,

518
00:28:07,800 --> 00:28:08,960
Speaker 2: not this girl that needed help.

519
00:28:09,040 --> 00:28:11,800
Speaker 1: That's what you were chasing, Yeah yeah.

520
00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:15,320
Speaker 2: And honestly I was chasing it until literally the day

521
00:28:15,359 --> 00:28:16,359
Speaker 2: before I went to jail.

522
00:28:16,520 --> 00:28:21,720
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah. Yeah. Relationships, you were in a relationship or

523
00:28:21,720 --> 00:28:23,520
Speaker 1: a long term relationship after this.

524
00:28:23,520 --> 00:28:29,440
Speaker 2: Occurred, or I was so prior, well just after my assault,

525
00:28:29,480 --> 00:28:34,720
Speaker 2: maybe several months after that. Yeah, I obviously had the young,

526
00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:39,840
Speaker 2: fun relationships whatever else, and then I was just too

527
00:28:39,880 --> 00:28:43,440
Speaker 2: much for these people, for these poor these poor young boys.

528
00:28:45,080 --> 00:28:49,760
Speaker 2: And then I had look unfortunately, like upon reflection over

529
00:28:49,800 --> 00:28:52,320
Speaker 2: these last few years, I realize now all I was

530
00:28:52,360 --> 00:28:57,400
Speaker 2: looking for was a protector, yep, right, So I went

531
00:28:57,440 --> 00:28:59,640
Speaker 2: looking for that, and of course the first one I

532
00:28:59,680 --> 00:29:02,400
Speaker 2: found was someone that was involved with Biki gangs, was

533
00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:05,560
Speaker 2: someone that, like the word protected to me meant someone

534
00:29:05,640 --> 00:29:09,400
Speaker 2: that was obviously involved in the crime life, but would

535
00:29:09,760 --> 00:29:12,040
Speaker 2: you know, protect me or his name by any means.

536
00:29:12,760 --> 00:29:15,640
Speaker 2: I was looking for that really rough exteria that you know,

537
00:29:15,840 --> 00:29:17,640
Speaker 2: uh kind of thing. I'd never had that in my

538
00:29:17,680 --> 00:29:22,680
Speaker 2: life before. And so I fell into what appeared to

539
00:29:22,760 --> 00:29:27,960
Speaker 2: be a normal relationship sort of at the age sixteen seventeen,

540
00:29:28,720 --> 00:29:33,160
Speaker 2: and it brought eight nine years of domestic violence, like

541
00:29:33,480 --> 00:29:38,960
Speaker 2: serious drug inducee, just interesting choices, you know, the worst

542
00:29:38,960 --> 00:29:42,760
Speaker 2: of the worst. And it wasn't a consistent I think

543
00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:44,840
Speaker 2: it was nine years. I think it wasn't a consistent

544
00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:48,360
Speaker 2: nine years. It was on and off. But that relationship

545
00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:51,400
Speaker 2: is what actually taught me the definition of domestic violence

546
00:29:51,400 --> 00:29:56,240
Speaker 2: and narcissism. You know, it was scary, something that I

547
00:29:56,240 --> 00:30:00,320
Speaker 2: don't think I've personally dealt with fully yet, but thing

548
00:30:00,520 --> 00:30:03,800
Speaker 2: that has definitely driven me to be the person that

549
00:30:03,840 --> 00:30:06,800
Speaker 2: I am now, the relationships that I want to have

550
00:30:07,040 --> 00:30:10,280
Speaker 2: and what I want to do for a career and

551
00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:12,200
Speaker 2: help the women that I want to help, is because

552
00:30:12,920 --> 00:30:16,880
Speaker 2: battling those years. You do not recognize it when you're

553
00:30:16,880 --> 00:30:19,720
Speaker 2: in it. You know, there were so many instances that

554
00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:23,560
Speaker 2: from the outsiding and I had family, I had friends

555
00:30:23,600 --> 00:30:25,720
Speaker 2: reaching out and I couldn't talk to them. I had,

556
00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:28,680
Speaker 2: I had phones taken away from me, I had I

557
00:30:28,720 --> 00:30:30,680
Speaker 2: was kidnapped. Majority of the time.

558
00:30:31,120 --> 00:30:36,080
Speaker 1: It falls into this coercive control. Yeah, legislation has started

559
00:30:36,080 --> 00:30:39,280
Speaker 1: to come into play now for coersive control because it's

560
00:30:39,320 --> 00:30:41,840
Speaker 1: hard to define something when well, you're choosing to be

561
00:30:41,880 --> 00:30:44,800
Speaker 1: in this relationship and that's a toxic relationship that you

562
00:30:44,920 --> 00:30:47,400
Speaker 1: keep going back. But there's more to it, isn't there.

563
00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:48,960
Speaker 2: There's a lot of layers to it, and that's the

564
00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:51,640
Speaker 2: hardest part. It's like, what do you determine its choice? Though?

565
00:30:51,840 --> 00:30:56,080
Speaker 2: When you're led to believe for years on end that

566
00:30:56,120 --> 00:30:59,400
Speaker 2: you're nothing, that you're this more that you're never going

567
00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:02,800
Speaker 2: to amount to that you're nothing better than that relationship.

568
00:31:02,920 --> 00:31:06,520
Speaker 2: So else, no one else outside of that relationship is

569
00:31:06,520 --> 00:31:09,000
Speaker 2: ever going to love you again. So immediately you start

570
00:31:09,040 --> 00:31:12,440
Speaker 2: to believe that I fell into this relationship, and the

571
00:31:12,520 --> 00:31:15,880
Speaker 2: second that I was vulnerable with this person about my

572
00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:20,880
Speaker 2: past and about what had happened to me, I received, Oh,

573
00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:24,480
Speaker 2: so you've been raped. Well, no one else is going

574
00:31:24,560 --> 00:31:26,200
Speaker 2: to love you again. If you've been raped, that means

575
00:31:26,240 --> 00:31:30,440
Speaker 2: you're dirty, horrible, It's disgusting, And the saddest part is

576
00:31:30,440 --> 00:31:32,720
Speaker 2: that it is so common, Like in the work that

577
00:31:32,800 --> 00:31:36,320
Speaker 2: I do now, I hear it constantly, this coercive control.

578
00:31:36,680 --> 00:31:39,880
Speaker 2: It's such a rising matter at the moment, and it's because,

579
00:31:41,040 --> 00:31:45,880
Speaker 2: to be honest, social media more than anything, in terms

580
00:31:45,920 --> 00:31:50,000
Speaker 2: of Snapchat, for example, so your partner being able to

581
00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:52,920
Speaker 2: see where you are twenty four seven and that being normalized,

582
00:31:53,280 --> 00:31:56,200
Speaker 2: why should it matter where I am? But the fact

583
00:31:56,200 --> 00:31:58,600
Speaker 2: that it's just like a feature on Snapchat, that it's

584
00:31:58,640 --> 00:31:59,560
Speaker 2: one of those things to do.

585
00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:02,160
Speaker 1: There's a lot of ways to control people that weren't

586
00:32:02,320 --> 00:32:05,320
Speaker 1: readily available a couple of decades ago. Isn't he absolutely

587
00:32:05,400 --> 00:32:08,560
Speaker 1: just with the mobile phone before I'm going out. I'll

588
00:32:08,680 --> 00:32:10,800
Speaker 1: see when I get home. But now the phone can

589
00:32:10,840 --> 00:32:13,000
Speaker 1: ring at any time. Where are you correcte, who's that

590
00:32:13,040 --> 00:32:13,680
Speaker 1: in the background?

591
00:32:13,760 --> 00:32:16,640
Speaker 2: Exactly? This whole thing of being like being able to

592
00:32:17,160 --> 00:32:20,520
Speaker 2: reach people twenty four seven and that being normalized, that's

593
00:32:20,520 --> 00:32:24,800
Speaker 2: not normal. You know. I've I remember being that friend

594
00:32:24,920 --> 00:32:27,959
Speaker 2: that I'm out to dinner with my girlfriends and I'm constantly,

595
00:32:28,320 --> 00:32:30,479
Speaker 2: you know, looking at my phone as if to be like,

596
00:32:31,160 --> 00:32:34,000
Speaker 2: I'm terrified for what message is going to come through

597
00:32:34,040 --> 00:32:35,080
Speaker 2: in sixty seconds.

598
00:32:35,160 --> 00:32:37,280
Speaker 1: There's invariably one in the group lot that isn't it.

599
00:32:37,360 --> 00:32:39,440
Speaker 1: You can see the person that's having a good time,

600
00:32:39,480 --> 00:32:41,920
Speaker 1: and then the phone goes, and they're looking at the phone.

601
00:32:41,680 --> 00:32:45,280
Speaker 2: And they're trying their best because while they can't acknowledge

602
00:32:45,280 --> 00:32:48,560
Speaker 2: that they're actually in a domestic boent relationship, they're trying

603
00:32:48,600 --> 00:32:51,840
Speaker 2: their best to step out of that normality and hang

604
00:32:51,880 --> 00:32:55,320
Speaker 2: out with their friends. But you don't. You do not

605
00:32:55,400 --> 00:32:58,880
Speaker 2: recognize when you're in it. You recognize that, oh, I'm

606
00:32:58,920 --> 00:33:01,360
Speaker 2: in a relationship, and well he might love me so

607
00:33:01,480 --> 00:33:07,200
Speaker 2: much more than than I'm so passionate case it contacts

608
00:33:07,240 --> 00:33:10,880
Speaker 2: me twenty four to seven. No, that's control, that's control.

609
00:33:11,400 --> 00:33:15,120
Speaker 2: I'm in a fantastic relationship now and we live together.

610
00:33:15,160 --> 00:33:17,840
Speaker 2: We'll go like two days without speaking, but that's normality.

611
00:33:18,520 --> 00:33:21,760
Speaker 1: It's creepy from both sexes too. But and it's not

612
00:33:21,920 --> 00:33:25,600
Speaker 1: the physical violence that can come into play with men

613
00:33:25,720 --> 00:33:30,400
Speaker 1: being the perpetrators on women. But we've all got friends

614
00:33:30,400 --> 00:33:32,480
Speaker 1: as in the blokes that you know, that friend that's

615
00:33:32,520 --> 00:33:35,520
Speaker 1: always in trouble with the wife or the partner if

616
00:33:35,560 --> 00:33:37,280
Speaker 1: they're out and getting the phone calls where are you?

617
00:33:37,320 --> 00:33:38,280
Speaker 1: What time are you going to be home?

618
00:33:38,400 --> 00:33:42,760
Speaker 2: And that's a sad reality. Like unfortunately, I'd say my generation,

619
00:33:42,840 --> 00:33:44,880
Speaker 2: to be honest, I'm going to take blame. I feel

620
00:33:44,960 --> 00:33:49,200
Speaker 2: like we've somehow taken social media and turned it into

621
00:33:49,240 --> 00:33:52,239
Speaker 2: this thing of like women in particular of you know,

622
00:33:52,440 --> 00:33:57,160
Speaker 2: forever comparing themselves to other women online or not normalizing

623
00:33:57,160 --> 00:34:00,960
Speaker 2: the fact that like male and female relationships can actually

624
00:34:01,000 --> 00:34:05,400
Speaker 2: exists on a platonic level. So this whole obsession over

625
00:34:05,520 --> 00:34:08,919
Speaker 2: females of to their partners of when you're getting home,

626
00:34:09,040 --> 00:34:11,040
Speaker 2: why did you follow her? Da da da da da,

627
00:34:11,120 --> 00:34:13,120
Speaker 2: Like there's no trust element anymore.

628
00:34:13,360 --> 00:34:16,640
Speaker 1: And the type of relationship you're talking about too. And

629
00:34:16,680 --> 00:34:19,239
Speaker 1: we talked about low self esteem after what happened to

630
00:34:19,280 --> 00:34:23,080
Speaker 1: you when you're sexually assaulted, that makes you vulnerable too,

631
00:34:23,280 --> 00:34:26,080
Speaker 1: And if you've got the wrong person they can exploit that.

632
00:34:26,200 --> 00:34:28,560
Speaker 1: Then it's almost like they've got the radar for exploiting

633
00:34:28,600 --> 00:34:29,480
Speaker 1: the vulnerability.

634
00:34:29,600 --> 00:34:31,920
Speaker 2: That's exactly what it is. And I feel like I

635
00:34:32,080 --> 00:34:36,400
Speaker 2: learned the definition, and it's such an overplayed definition at

636
00:34:36,400 --> 00:34:41,000
Speaker 2: the moment in terms of narcissistic behavior. And I met

637
00:34:41,040 --> 00:34:43,480
Speaker 2: a narcissist at such a young age, and I could

638
00:34:43,600 --> 00:34:45,480
Speaker 2: never put a name or a label to it. But

639
00:34:46,600 --> 00:34:49,600
Speaker 2: any male that can make you feel so any male

640
00:34:49,719 --> 00:34:51,680
Speaker 2: or female, any human that can make you feel so

641
00:34:51,880 --> 00:34:55,000
Speaker 2: loved and then in the same regard, make you feel

642
00:34:55,040 --> 00:34:59,799
Speaker 2: so small to anyone else, that's narcissistic traits. And it's

643
00:34:59,840 --> 00:35:02,719
Speaker 2: so is because you then start to believe that this

644
00:35:02,760 --> 00:35:05,680
Speaker 2: person is your be all and end all. So the

645
00:35:05,719 --> 00:35:10,719
Speaker 2: saddest reality, right was I almost well I did. I

646
00:35:10,760 --> 00:35:14,080
Speaker 2: lost my entire identity through that socual assault and then

647
00:35:14,600 --> 00:35:18,120
Speaker 2: through those weird awkward years, you know, fourteen, fifteen sixteen,

648
00:35:18,160 --> 00:35:19,960
Speaker 2: I'm trying to figure out who the fuck you are?

649
00:35:20,840 --> 00:35:21,080
Speaker 1: I was.

650
00:35:21,239 --> 00:35:23,799
Speaker 2: I was trying to rebuild that, and I unfortunately met

651
00:35:23,800 --> 00:35:29,560
Speaker 2: this man and he told me that everything that I

652
00:35:29,600 --> 00:35:32,160
Speaker 2: thought was great about myself was wrong. You know, I

653
00:35:32,200 --> 00:35:35,560
Speaker 2: had to dress a certain way. My outgoingness, for example,

654
00:35:35,760 --> 00:35:39,320
Speaker 2: was wrong. I was an immediate flirt, you know, just

655
00:35:39,360 --> 00:35:42,839
Speaker 2: because I was a confident girl. So I was led

656
00:35:42,880 --> 00:35:45,840
Speaker 2: to believe that all of these, all of these things

657
00:35:45,840 --> 00:35:48,680
Speaker 2: that were so positive in my mind, and that all

658
00:35:48,719 --> 00:35:51,640
Speaker 2: of my values I were made to believe were wrong.

659
00:35:52,440 --> 00:35:53,880
Speaker 1: That that can be a mind fuck for you.

660
00:35:54,000 --> 00:35:56,439
Speaker 2: Oh, I did, and I did for eight ten years.

661
00:35:56,480 --> 00:36:00,440
Speaker 2: You know, everyone was forever going, Danny, what's wrong with you?

662
00:36:00,440 --> 00:36:03,600
Speaker 2: You can because I would. It wasn't a consecutive nine years.

663
00:36:03,680 --> 00:36:07,440
Speaker 2: It was we would date for several months, something would happen.

664
00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:11,480
Speaker 2: He would bash me, or he'd get hooked on drugs.

665
00:36:12,040 --> 00:36:14,640
Speaker 2: I'd get hooked on other drugs, and then I would

666
00:36:14,680 --> 00:36:16,960
Speaker 2: wake up to myself and have these realizations that no,

667
00:36:17,080 --> 00:36:19,680
Speaker 2: this is not my life. Like I'd pull away, I'd

668
00:36:19,680 --> 00:36:22,360
Speaker 2: return back to my family home. I'd have all of

669
00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:25,880
Speaker 2: my friends say, this isn't you like you know that

670
00:36:25,920 --> 00:36:28,160
Speaker 2: your life path is so much bigger than this, you know.

671
00:36:28,920 --> 00:36:31,359
Speaker 2: And I would move forward, and I would progress, and

672
00:36:31,560 --> 00:36:33,360
Speaker 2: just as I would get to that sweet spot, that

673
00:36:34,080 --> 00:36:36,959
Speaker 2: really positive point in my life. He would come back

674
00:36:37,040 --> 00:36:40,719
Speaker 2: every time of I'm so proud of you and you're

675
00:36:40,760 --> 00:36:44,120
Speaker 2: such an amazing woman, and you know, I see where

676
00:36:44,120 --> 00:36:45,879
Speaker 2: you're going with life. I just want to help you.

677
00:36:45,960 --> 00:36:47,799
Speaker 2: And this is what I'm doing now. Oh I'm not

678
00:36:47,840 --> 00:36:50,680
Speaker 2: a junkie anymore. I have a job now.

679
00:36:50,800 --> 00:36:54,600
Speaker 1: And look, just it's toxic, isn't it that that's ridiculous.

680
00:36:54,640 --> 00:36:57,920
Speaker 1: We all know those relationships, all being in relationships like that,

681
00:36:58,040 --> 00:37:01,680
Speaker 1: and then it's exploiting the vulnerable and everything else that

682
00:37:01,800 --> 00:37:05,520
Speaker 1: comes into play. But you've described it well and I

683
00:37:05,560 --> 00:37:09,120
Speaker 1: hadn't really put my mind to the social media aspect

684
00:37:09,160 --> 00:37:11,520
Speaker 1: of it as well, But that's very much. People have

685
00:37:11,600 --> 00:37:14,040
Speaker 1: you twenty four to seven. Now you get no time

686
00:37:14,080 --> 00:37:17,960
Speaker 1: to yourself if someone's trying to cling onto you or obsessed.

687
00:37:17,560 --> 00:37:19,799
Speaker 2: With you, that's exactly right. It's just something that never

688
00:37:19,840 --> 00:37:24,880
Speaker 2: turns off, you know. Unfortunately in this generation, even things

689
00:37:24,880 --> 00:37:29,600
Speaker 2: like bullying nothing turns off, you know. Fortunate for me

690
00:37:29,640 --> 00:37:32,120
Speaker 2: when I was at school, if you were bullied, you'd

691
00:37:32,160 --> 00:37:34,040
Speaker 2: go home and call it a day. That was it.

692
00:37:34,160 --> 00:37:37,120
Speaker 2: You're in your safe space, you know, that was it.

693
00:37:37,640 --> 00:37:40,880
Speaker 2: But now social media is constant.

694
00:37:41,040 --> 00:37:43,640
Speaker 1: Well, I think of all the times I stuffed up

695
00:37:43,640 --> 00:37:46,839
Speaker 1: as a kid growing up, and the embarrassment, the instant embarrassment,

696
00:37:46,880 --> 00:37:49,080
Speaker 1: but there wasn't photos of it, and you weren't being

697
00:37:49,120 --> 00:37:51,960
Speaker 1: reminded of it when you got had. Yeah, so it

698
00:37:52,000 --> 00:37:54,440
Speaker 1: has changed. It's a tough, tough gig, isn't.

699
00:37:54,200 --> 00:37:56,319
Speaker 2: It exactly right? And they say, look, the same thing

700
00:37:56,440 --> 00:38:01,040
Speaker 2: with relationships, you know. Unfortunately now people loved to publicize

701
00:38:01,480 --> 00:38:04,160
Speaker 2: their relationships or what they're going through or if their

702
00:38:04,200 --> 00:38:08,239
Speaker 2: partners upset them or whatever else. Everything is just so

703
00:38:09,239 --> 00:38:12,560
Speaker 2: forward facing, like you can't escape it. Yeah, you really

704
00:38:12,560 --> 00:38:15,640
Speaker 2: can't escape it unless you know that this is what

705
00:38:15,680 --> 00:38:18,280
Speaker 2: you're going through. You can acknowledge that and then figure

706
00:38:18,320 --> 00:38:20,920
Speaker 2: out steps to move forward. There's there's no escape.

707
00:38:21,000 --> 00:38:25,120
Speaker 1: And it's keeping self worth with yourself too. That that's

708
00:38:25,160 --> 00:38:27,839
Speaker 1: an important part. That you're not defined by who you're

709
00:38:27,840 --> 00:38:30,040
Speaker 1: in a relationship with or what they think of you.

710
00:38:30,360 --> 00:38:33,319
Speaker 1: If you can hold that line. It's a pretty important line.

711
00:38:33,560 --> 00:38:36,640
Speaker 1: Not always easy to do, but important line, isn't it.

712
00:38:36,960 --> 00:38:40,439
Speaker 2: I think it's it's about actually finding your self worth.

713
00:38:40,480 --> 00:38:44,080
Speaker 2: And this is out of every single value that I

714
00:38:44,120 --> 00:38:48,120
Speaker 2: can think of, self worth is the one thing that

715
00:38:48,280 --> 00:38:52,640
Speaker 2: has stuck with me from being in jail till this day.

716
00:38:52,840 --> 00:38:57,080
Speaker 1: I forgot about the jail things. We've probably got, We've

717
00:38:57,080 --> 00:38:59,439
Speaker 1: probably got to get onto that. Anyway, it's playing great

718
00:38:59,440 --> 00:39:01,680
Speaker 1: having you on the podcast. I'm glad you've got away

719
00:39:01,680 --> 00:39:05,920
Speaker 1: from that relationship. Look when did you fall into the

720
00:39:05,920 --> 00:39:08,759
Speaker 1: life style of the as the media would call you,

721
00:39:08,800 --> 00:39:13,080
Speaker 1: the glamorous caught up in a dollar dealer lifestyle?

722
00:39:13,239 --> 00:39:17,080
Speaker 2: Oh, the designer girl that shops a Cama. Yeah, that one.

723
00:39:18,320 --> 00:39:21,120
Speaker 1: Must have been a good product we got from Cama. Oh.

724
00:39:21,160 --> 00:39:24,359
Speaker 2: Look, the one thing I will take away from from

725
00:39:24,480 --> 00:39:26,520
Speaker 2: all those headlines, like the fact that they called me

726
00:39:26,560 --> 00:39:28,239
Speaker 2: an events manager. I was like, you know what, I'll

727
00:39:28,280 --> 00:39:29,920
Speaker 2: take that. Like, they said a lot of bad ship,

728
00:39:30,000 --> 00:39:31,759
Speaker 2: but they said some good shit as well, so I'll

729
00:39:31,760 --> 00:39:36,040
Speaker 2: wear that. But yeah, look, coming out of that relationship,

730
00:39:36,719 --> 00:39:40,440
Speaker 2: there was a lot of physical and emotional abuse, but

731
00:39:41,080 --> 00:39:43,040
Speaker 2: that also meant there was a lot of financial abuse,

732
00:39:43,160 --> 00:39:46,680
Speaker 2: and so I was there were so many debts that

733
00:39:46,719 --> 00:39:49,920
Speaker 2: were put in my name. We were living in eastern

734
00:39:49,960 --> 00:39:53,680
Speaker 2: suburbs at the time, so yeah, again it was that

735
00:39:53,840 --> 00:39:56,879
Speaker 2: lifestyle and trying to catch up with it. I mean

736
00:39:56,960 --> 00:40:00,560
Speaker 2: I was driving I was driving the worst, the worst,

737
00:40:00,600 --> 00:40:02,640
Speaker 2: like beat up piece of shit car wouldn't have been

738
00:40:02,680 --> 00:40:06,359
Speaker 2: anything more than two grand Like, I just didn't fit.

739
00:40:06,520 --> 00:40:10,280
Speaker 2: I didn't fit in the demographic, and so I had,

740
00:40:10,520 --> 00:40:14,080
Speaker 2: you know, all these bills now falling pouring out of

741
00:40:14,080 --> 00:40:18,040
Speaker 2: my eyes. And I got to this point where finally enough,

742
00:40:18,080 --> 00:40:21,360
Speaker 2: like I actually started to recognize my worth and I

743
00:40:21,440 --> 00:40:24,920
Speaker 2: kicked him out because I was like, you know what, yuck, Like,

744
00:40:24,960 --> 00:40:28,000
Speaker 2: this is just what are we doing after this many years?

745
00:40:28,320 --> 00:40:31,640
Speaker 2: You have a serious drug addiction. I have now basically

746
00:40:31,719 --> 00:40:34,200
Speaker 2: like developed another drug addiction because of that.

747
00:40:34,320 --> 00:40:35,680
Speaker 1: What type of drugs were you taking?

748
00:40:35,840 --> 00:40:39,600
Speaker 2: Well, he was on methemphetamine. I dabbled in it every

749
00:40:39,640 --> 00:40:42,160
Speaker 2: so often. It really wasn't my drug of choice, so

750
00:40:42,400 --> 00:40:44,719
Speaker 2: my drug of choice, unfortunately it was that ex yep.

751
00:40:45,960 --> 00:40:50,319
Speaker 2: It basically created this false, this false pretense that that's

752
00:40:50,400 --> 00:40:52,280
Speaker 2: that same feeling I had as a child, that life

753
00:40:52,320 --> 00:40:55,719
Speaker 2: was amazing, there was no judgment. No, I didn't care

754
00:40:55,760 --> 00:40:58,320
Speaker 2: about what anyone else thought. I was me. I was happy.

755
00:40:58,360 --> 00:41:01,200
Speaker 2: I was carefree. No, because I was so off my

756
00:41:01,360 --> 00:41:06,480
Speaker 2: head that nothing literally nothing mattered. But because I had

757
00:41:06,560 --> 00:41:12,319
Speaker 2: undiagnosed PTSD adhd add I created the narrative of my

758
00:41:12,440 --> 00:41:15,439
Speaker 2: head that every time I had a xanax, everything would

759
00:41:15,440 --> 00:41:15,960
Speaker 2: calm down.

760
00:41:16,000 --> 00:41:17,200
Speaker 1: The world was a beautiful place.

761
00:41:17,320 --> 00:41:20,200
Speaker 2: The world exactly right, was a beautiful place, and I

762
00:41:20,200 --> 00:41:24,120
Speaker 2: could compartmentalize all of my life. I could suddenly I

763
00:41:24,160 --> 00:41:27,759
Speaker 2: started building businesses. I started doing all of these things

764
00:41:27,760 --> 00:41:31,200
Speaker 2: for myself because I was no longer procrastinating, I was

765
00:41:31,200 --> 00:41:34,880
Speaker 2: no longer lazy. I didn't have all of this shit

766
00:41:35,280 --> 00:41:38,080
Speaker 2: placed upon me. I could finally feel like, oh, this

767
00:41:38,120 --> 00:41:41,319
Speaker 2: is my saving grace. No, I was just off my

768
00:41:41,440 --> 00:41:46,520
Speaker 2: face twenty four to seven. So anyway, this one particular day,

769
00:41:46,560 --> 00:41:48,880
Speaker 2: I realized, Yep, he's got that drug addiction. I have

770
00:41:48,960 --> 00:41:52,239
Speaker 2: this drug addiction. What is going on? This is not it?

771
00:41:52,880 --> 00:41:55,440
Speaker 2: I'm up to my eyeballs in debt. How can I

772
00:41:55,440 --> 00:41:55,920
Speaker 2: fix this?

773
00:41:56,080 --> 00:41:58,680
Speaker 1: Is it true? How many parking fines you had?

774
00:41:58,840 --> 00:41:59,080
Speaker 2: Yep?

775
00:41:59,520 --> 00:42:00,000
Speaker 1: How much?

776
00:42:00,080 --> 00:42:02,560
Speaker 2: Because I read the figure and forty thousand dollars.

777
00:42:02,480 --> 00:42:04,200
Speaker 1: Forty thousand dollars parking fine.

778
00:42:04,360 --> 00:42:08,799
Speaker 2: Yeah, still paying it off stage debt, and it just

779
00:42:08,880 --> 00:42:09,600
Speaker 2: it speaks to you.

780
00:42:10,000 --> 00:42:12,799
Speaker 1: Can I like these a true crime podcast and we're

781
00:42:12,800 --> 00:42:16,560
Speaker 1: deviating slightly, but I've never had a notorist parking the fan?

782
00:42:16,760 --> 00:42:19,640
Speaker 1: How do you collect forty thousand dollars worth of parking

783
00:42:19,719 --> 00:42:20,239
Speaker 1: kick just.

784
00:42:20,200 --> 00:42:23,879
Speaker 2: Speaks on the level of recklessness. Yeah right, And when

785
00:42:24,120 --> 00:42:27,920
Speaker 2: when you're on things like xanax or methanphetamine, you don't

786
00:42:27,960 --> 00:42:30,920
Speaker 2: give a shit about anything. So I would look at

787
00:42:30,960 --> 00:42:34,400
Speaker 2: these fines and be like, man, I would pick those

788
00:42:34,640 --> 00:42:37,759
Speaker 2: one hundred and fifty dollars parking fines over having a

789
00:42:37,800 --> 00:42:40,360
Speaker 2: walk let's say four streets.

790
00:42:40,600 --> 00:42:42,000
Speaker 1: That is reckless, isn't it, right?

791
00:42:42,080 --> 00:42:45,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, because you just you have no respect for the system,

792
00:42:45,680 --> 00:42:49,000
Speaker 2: You have no respect for yourself. You don't care, you know,

793
00:42:49,680 --> 00:42:52,280
Speaker 2: you don't really think that all of these fines, this money,

794
00:42:52,280 --> 00:42:54,000
Speaker 2: whatever's going to catch up to you one day. Oh,

795
00:42:54,400 --> 00:42:57,759
Speaker 2: I'm paying for it, now, do you pay for it back? Then?

796
00:42:58,960 --> 00:43:01,799
Speaker 1: People in jail for partucking fines. But early in my

797
00:43:01,880 --> 00:43:04,720
Speaker 1: police career, people that accumulated a lot of parking fines,

798
00:43:04,760 --> 00:43:07,880
Speaker 1: they could write them off by serving time, and you

799
00:43:07,880 --> 00:43:10,239
Speaker 1: would have people turn up at the police station on

800
00:43:10,280 --> 00:43:12,800
Speaker 1: a Friday afternoon to pay their parking tickets off to

801
00:43:12,800 --> 00:43:14,879
Speaker 1: get locked up for a couple of days, so pay

802
00:43:14,880 --> 00:43:15,719
Speaker 1: off their parking team.

803
00:43:15,960 --> 00:43:18,080
Speaker 2: I wish I could run a concurrent being like forty

804
00:43:18,080 --> 00:43:20,479
Speaker 2: thousand dollars a year and a half. That seems fair. Yeah,

805
00:43:20,680 --> 00:43:21,520
Speaker 2: I wish I could do that.

806
00:43:21,560 --> 00:43:24,840
Speaker 1: Well, it's a lot anyway. Okay, well we've identified that

807
00:43:24,880 --> 00:43:28,360
Speaker 1: there is a recklessness set. What about the drug dealing.

808
00:43:28,640 --> 00:43:31,359
Speaker 1: How did you get caught up in the cacaine? Now?

809
00:43:31,480 --> 00:43:36,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, so look from that and just recognizing that I

810
00:43:36,239 --> 00:43:39,280
Speaker 2: had all of these bills and I think I was

811
00:43:39,600 --> 00:43:42,640
Speaker 2: so young, very early twenties at that point, and I

812
00:43:42,719 --> 00:43:45,960
Speaker 2: just kicked him out. We're living in a Bondai beach

813
00:43:46,040 --> 00:43:49,680
Speaker 2: front apartment. I'm going, how the hell am I going

814
00:43:49,719 --> 00:43:52,200
Speaker 2: to afford anything. I didn't want to admit defeat. I

815
00:43:52,239 --> 00:43:55,880
Speaker 2: didn't want to run back to my family and basically

816
00:43:55,880 --> 00:44:00,400
Speaker 2: prove everyone right saying this is what's happened. Help. I

817
00:44:00,400 --> 00:44:02,520
Speaker 2: didn't want to ask for help. My parents were even

818
00:44:02,520 --> 00:44:05,200
Speaker 2: struggling at the time. You know, that's you're an adult

819
00:44:05,239 --> 00:44:07,640
Speaker 2: at that point. You don't want to admit defeat, you know.

820
00:44:07,800 --> 00:44:12,440
Speaker 2: So anyway, came across some friends, had a friend that said, look,

821
00:44:13,840 --> 00:44:17,000
Speaker 2: do some things several times, just drop some things off.

822
00:44:17,360 --> 00:44:20,440
Speaker 2: Very minimal, da da da da. Whole thing was very downplayed.

823
00:44:20,920 --> 00:44:23,600
Speaker 2: In my mind, I thought, sweet, every second person in

824
00:44:23,600 --> 00:44:26,520
Speaker 2: these suburbs at the time does cocaine. So I was like,

825
00:44:26,760 --> 00:44:32,400
Speaker 2: it's nothing whatever started doing it realized that the operation

826
00:44:32,560 --> 00:44:36,799
Speaker 2: was a lot bigger than what was played out, But

827
00:44:36,920 --> 00:44:39,319
Speaker 2: at that point I was already in it, and I thought,

828
00:44:39,400 --> 00:44:42,520
Speaker 2: you know what, stuff it. Yeah, there was no gun

829
00:44:42,560 --> 00:44:44,800
Speaker 2: to my head. I was never forced against my will.

830
00:44:45,400 --> 00:44:47,799
Speaker 2: I thought, you know, I need to make money. And

831
00:44:49,000 --> 00:44:50,799
Speaker 2: it sounds like an excuse, and it sounds like a

832
00:44:50,840 --> 00:44:55,920
Speaker 2: cop out. But when your self worth and your identity

833
00:44:56,000 --> 00:44:59,200
Speaker 2: is so minimalized that you're not capable of anything meaning,

834
00:44:59,320 --> 00:45:02,280
Speaker 2: like my partner more my ex at the time, would

835
00:45:02,320 --> 00:45:04,879
Speaker 2: tell me that, like, who the fuck do I think

836
00:45:04,920 --> 00:45:07,520
Speaker 2: I am? To go work in childcare or to go

837
00:45:07,600 --> 00:45:11,080
Speaker 2: work traffic control, any normal job? Who did I think

838
00:45:11,120 --> 00:45:12,879
Speaker 2: I was? Because everyone was going to judge me because

839
00:45:12,880 --> 00:45:15,880
Speaker 2: I'm a terrible person. I'm an addict, I'm a the

840
00:45:16,040 --> 00:45:18,319
Speaker 2: summer that, I'm a slider, I'm a whatever word he

841
00:45:18,360 --> 00:45:20,480
Speaker 2: could think of that he knew was going to hit home,

842
00:45:20,719 --> 00:45:25,200
Speaker 2: he used. And so it sounds twisted, and it sounds

843
00:45:25,239 --> 00:45:28,240
Speaker 2: like such an excuse. But I started creating that narrative

844
00:45:28,280 --> 00:45:30,240
Speaker 2: in my head that like, I can't have a normal

845
00:45:30,320 --> 00:45:33,680
Speaker 2: job because no one values me because I don't value me.

846
00:45:33,719 --> 00:45:37,080
Speaker 2: I'm a shit I was a shit person. So I

847
00:45:37,200 --> 00:45:39,759
Speaker 2: kind of almost belittled myself, thinking the only thing that

848
00:45:39,760 --> 00:45:43,120
Speaker 2: I'm capable of is selling drugs. Why because I didn't

849
00:45:43,160 --> 00:45:45,000
Speaker 2: have to talk to anyone, I don't have to do anything.

850
00:45:45,360 --> 00:45:48,200
Speaker 2: I drove around like I'm a freakin uber driver and

851
00:45:48,280 --> 00:45:50,000
Speaker 2: just drop things off. I didn't even have to look

852
00:45:50,000 --> 00:45:52,719
Speaker 2: at the customer half the time, so it was a

853
00:45:52,760 --> 00:45:56,880
Speaker 2: mindless job that I didn't have to think about. I

854
00:45:56,920 --> 00:45:59,000
Speaker 2: didn't have to overthink, I didn't have to stress out

855
00:45:59,040 --> 00:45:59,960
Speaker 2: about nothing.

856
00:46:00,880 --> 00:46:03,960
Speaker 1: And look, just let me stop you there, because I've

857
00:46:04,000 --> 00:46:05,560
Speaker 1: asked you how you got into it, So I'm not

858
00:46:05,600 --> 00:46:08,600
Speaker 1: putting you up there saying it's an excuse, like and

859
00:46:08,680 --> 00:46:12,160
Speaker 1: you've clarified that you're not making excuses. But it's interesting

860
00:46:12,200 --> 00:46:14,920
Speaker 1: how someone falls into it, falls into that trap. So

861
00:46:15,160 --> 00:46:18,400
Speaker 1: thanks for being honest with us and explaining it. And

862
00:46:18,440 --> 00:46:21,200
Speaker 1: you're not using anything as an excuse. This is just

863
00:46:21,440 --> 00:46:24,920
Speaker 1: why you went down that path. I'd see a lot

864
00:46:24,920 --> 00:46:27,960
Speaker 1: of people get caught up in drug dealing where I'm

865
00:46:28,000 --> 00:46:30,080
Speaker 1: just supplying a bag to a friend that's not really

866
00:46:30,280 --> 00:46:34,240
Speaker 1: drug dealing. Well, sadly, technically that's a yeah, you are dealing.

867
00:46:34,280 --> 00:46:38,480
Speaker 1: You're providing an illicit substance. To another person with your

868
00:46:38,960 --> 00:46:42,760
Speaker 1: dial a dealer. I've always you know, I'm not naive,

869
00:46:42,920 --> 00:46:46,360
Speaker 1: but I've always wondered, how does everyone get this cocaine?

870
00:46:46,400 --> 00:46:48,560
Speaker 1: Like where does it all come from? Andyah? In the

871
00:46:48,560 --> 00:46:51,520
Speaker 1: police obviously we know, but there's so many people that

872
00:46:51,640 --> 00:46:53,520
Speaker 1: are involved in it and can pick up the phone

873
00:46:53,560 --> 00:46:56,600
Speaker 1: up and get something delivered, like ordering a pizza.

874
00:46:56,920 --> 00:47:00,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's look, that's that's it. I feel like

875
00:47:00,520 --> 00:47:01,880
Speaker 2: I give to a lot of the young girls that

876
00:47:01,920 --> 00:47:05,839
Speaker 2: I deal with now, is like, although you think you're bulletproof,

877
00:47:05,960 --> 00:47:09,720
Speaker 2: you will always get caught. This whole dial a dealer,

878
00:47:09,880 --> 00:47:13,240
Speaker 2: this whole thinking that everything so underraps, Like I can't

879
00:47:13,239 --> 00:47:16,720
Speaker 2: even discredit the amount of work that New South Wales

880
00:47:16,760 --> 00:47:19,439
Speaker 2: Police put in to figuring out what we were doing.

881
00:47:19,760 --> 00:47:23,000
Speaker 1: Well look with it. I look at the investigation. That's

882
00:47:23,040 --> 00:47:25,160
Speaker 1: not hard to track.

883
00:47:26,400 --> 00:47:29,280
Speaker 2: Terribly but it's not hard.

884
00:47:29,080 --> 00:47:33,000
Speaker 1: And I'm surprised it's been allowed to flourish as long

885
00:47:33,040 --> 00:47:36,080
Speaker 1: as it has. And you know, with all sorts of people,

886
00:47:36,120 --> 00:47:38,480
Speaker 1: it's not we're not looking at This is a people

887
00:47:38,480 --> 00:47:41,840
Speaker 1: that look down on In some industries, it's considered the

888
00:47:41,880 --> 00:47:45,520
Speaker 1: same as having a beer or a glass of wine.

889
00:47:45,560 --> 00:47:48,360
Speaker 2: And that's literally the code word they use for it

890
00:47:48,400 --> 00:47:51,280
Speaker 2: is like when they used to text the phones, for example,

891
00:47:51,280 --> 00:47:53,000
Speaker 2: they'd be like, oh can I get three beers? Like

892
00:47:53,360 --> 00:47:57,440
Speaker 2: it's so normalized. Yeah, yeah, these days like that particular drug.

893
00:47:57,600 --> 00:48:01,120
Speaker 2: And this is why initially when I started doing it,

894
00:48:01,200 --> 00:48:03,400
Speaker 2: I started telling myself the narrative that it's not that

895
00:48:03,520 --> 00:48:06,360
Speaker 2: bad because oh why, because it wasn't heroine or ice,

896
00:48:06,640 --> 00:48:09,440
Speaker 2: it wasn't ruining the lives of people. And yet I

897
00:48:09,440 --> 00:48:12,839
Speaker 2: would deliver to people three, four, five times a day,

898
00:48:13,080 --> 00:48:17,560
Speaker 2: not even small amounts. I'm taking thousands of dollars of

899
00:48:17,640 --> 00:48:22,239
Speaker 2: them each day. And I would see families like I

900
00:48:22,239 --> 00:48:24,600
Speaker 2: would see, you know, their kids playing in the backyard

901
00:48:24,640 --> 00:48:26,840
Speaker 2: when I'm sitting in the lane dropping off coke.

902
00:48:26,680 --> 00:48:29,120
Speaker 1: When you've just spent a couple of thousand dollars exactly

903
00:48:29,400 --> 00:48:31,160
Speaker 1: gone to the family and the kids.

904
00:48:31,280 --> 00:48:33,440
Speaker 2: And it's sickening. Like I got to the point where

905
00:48:33,440 --> 00:48:35,720
Speaker 2: I was like, no, this isn't a party drug anymore,

906
00:48:36,320 --> 00:48:38,839
Speaker 2: because to me in my generation and to what I

907
00:48:38,880 --> 00:48:41,399
Speaker 2: saw when I would go out, it was a party drug.

908
00:48:41,440 --> 00:48:43,920
Speaker 2: It wasn't you know, even even till this day, like

909
00:48:43,960 --> 00:48:47,480
Speaker 2: I've I've never been hooked on cocaine I've never you know,

910
00:48:47,680 --> 00:48:51,360
Speaker 2: it truly is a rich man's drug. However, doesn't necessarily

911
00:48:51,360 --> 00:48:52,600
Speaker 2: mean it's not a problem.

912
00:48:52,960 --> 00:48:55,840
Speaker 1: Well, I think that's that's very true too. And there's

913
00:48:55,920 --> 00:48:59,080
Speaker 1: there's not that social stigma to someone doing a line

914
00:48:59,120 --> 00:49:03,480
Speaker 1: of Coke's often laughed at or yeah, someone's in the toilet,

915
00:49:03,680 --> 00:49:05,680
Speaker 1: you know, the standard joke. They've just gone in the

916
00:49:05,680 --> 00:49:08,160
Speaker 1: toilet and come out with white powder on their k nose.

917
00:49:08,719 --> 00:49:11,600
Speaker 1: But you've seen it, and you've seen the damage that

918
00:49:11,680 --> 00:49:14,880
Speaker 1: can be done by it. With the money that goes in,

919
00:49:14,960 --> 00:49:18,560
Speaker 1: and I've seen people that you know, friends that might

920
00:49:18,760 --> 00:49:21,120
Speaker 1: might have a habit and the other it's not really affecting,

921
00:49:21,160 --> 00:49:25,080
Speaker 1: and I'm thinking how much money they're spending, like it's crazy.

922
00:49:25,160 --> 00:49:27,239
Speaker 2: And that's what till this day it still burns me.

923
00:49:27,400 --> 00:49:30,279
Speaker 2: Like I will go out to social events whatever else.

924
00:49:30,280 --> 00:49:33,920
Speaker 2: I've got, to nightclubs, whatever, and I just see people

925
00:49:34,280 --> 00:49:37,120
Speaker 2: using the toilets as if there's a swinging door. And

926
00:49:37,520 --> 00:49:42,120
Speaker 2: you know, I'll see people friends using their last fifty

927
00:49:42,280 --> 00:49:45,480
Speaker 2: hundred dollars to go thirds in a bag, and I'm going,

928
00:49:45,520 --> 00:49:49,200
Speaker 2: what for, Like, I don't while I understand the drug,

929
00:49:49,239 --> 00:49:52,360
Speaker 2: I understand the effects of whatever it for what like

930
00:49:52,440 --> 00:49:55,239
Speaker 2: it brings nothing positive. It just doesn't. It's a means

931
00:49:55,239 --> 00:49:56,080
Speaker 2: to an end. It's boring.

932
00:49:57,560 --> 00:50:01,080
Speaker 1: So with what you were doing, was that your full

933
00:50:01,120 --> 00:50:03,320
Speaker 1: time employment. Was there anything else that you're doing? I

934
00:50:03,320 --> 00:50:06,960
Speaker 1: would I say employment, you weren't paying tax on anyway?

935
00:50:06,960 --> 00:50:09,520
Speaker 2: Should it be could have been by the end of that.

936
00:50:09,760 --> 00:50:13,840
Speaker 2: But I would always try and double in other things,

937
00:50:13,880 --> 00:50:16,839
Speaker 2: Like I knew that this wasn't a means to an

938
00:50:16,920 --> 00:50:20,439
Speaker 2: end for me. I always still try to keep that

939
00:50:21,080 --> 00:50:23,560
Speaker 2: those morals about myself of going no, like I'll just

940
00:50:24,239 --> 00:50:27,080
Speaker 2: and this is whatevery drug dealer tells them themselves. Or

941
00:50:27,520 --> 00:50:29,640
Speaker 2: I'll just save X amount and then I'll get out,

942
00:50:29,880 --> 00:50:32,200
Speaker 2: or I'll do something with this money, and I did

943
00:50:32,360 --> 00:50:36,640
Speaker 2: so I would start small businesses, or I would use

944
00:50:36,640 --> 00:50:38,920
Speaker 2: that money to then go overseas and then oh, when

945
00:50:38,960 --> 00:50:42,279
Speaker 2: I come back, I'm gonna start other work. And I did.

946
00:50:42,440 --> 00:50:45,239
Speaker 2: I would have, you know, other careers. I'd work in hospitality,

947
00:50:45,840 --> 00:50:50,920
Speaker 2: traffic control, childcare, whatever. But you would always come back

948
00:50:50,960 --> 00:50:53,800
Speaker 2: to the same thing of like, I make X amount

949
00:50:53,880 --> 00:50:57,840
Speaker 2: in one day, so why would I work an entire

950
00:50:57,880 --> 00:51:00,919
Speaker 2: week if I can make that in one day? Yeah,

951
00:51:00,960 --> 00:51:05,120
Speaker 2: And there was never I never had I don't know

952
00:51:05,120 --> 00:51:07,239
Speaker 2: how to describe it, like I was never pulled over

953
00:51:07,480 --> 00:51:09,680
Speaker 2: for the first couple of years, of months, years, whatever,

954
00:51:10,200 --> 00:51:13,400
Speaker 2: never pulled over. I was never in trouble, So I thought,

955
00:51:14,080 --> 00:51:17,040
Speaker 2: stuff it, whatever if I can, If I can do that,

956
00:51:17,080 --> 00:51:20,480
Speaker 2: even for one or two days, I'm laughing. So I

957
00:51:20,520 --> 00:51:22,640
Speaker 2: would kind of balance a few jobs at a time

958
00:51:23,600 --> 00:51:26,000
Speaker 2: and try and justify it to myself and tell myself,

959
00:51:26,040 --> 00:51:28,720
Speaker 2: you know, I'm still doing the right thing in one aspect,

960
00:51:28,800 --> 00:51:32,440
Speaker 2: so it's okay. But then it got to this point

961
00:51:33,120 --> 00:51:35,840
Speaker 2: several years later where I ended up coming back to

962
00:51:35,880 --> 00:51:39,439
Speaker 2: it and I just knew it was wrong. And then

963
00:51:39,600 --> 00:51:42,000
Speaker 2: the way that the entire operation was being carried out

964
00:51:42,120 --> 00:51:46,960
Speaker 2: was so poor, and I just thought, I'm just I'm

965
00:51:47,000 --> 00:51:48,600
Speaker 2: literally a pawn in this operation.

966
00:51:49,280 --> 00:51:50,799
Speaker 1: I was going to ask you that, did you get

967
00:51:50,800 --> 00:51:52,680
Speaker 1: a sense of how easy it would be to take

968
00:51:52,719 --> 00:51:55,880
Speaker 1: you down? And you would be very expendable.

969
00:51:56,719 --> 00:51:59,000
Speaker 2: I acknowledged that. Look, I was just a pretty face,

970
00:51:59,040 --> 00:52:02,240
Speaker 2: and unfortunately I was the only female that was available

971
00:52:02,280 --> 00:52:05,320
Speaker 2: in the Eastern suburbs at the time. So at first

972
00:52:05,320 --> 00:52:07,399
Speaker 2: I played on that knowing how much money I could make.

973
00:52:07,480 --> 00:52:08,879
Speaker 2: But then I got to a point where it made

974
00:52:08,920 --> 00:52:11,880
Speaker 2: me sick, and I'm like, you know, what, who's to

975
00:52:11,960 --> 00:52:14,800
Speaker 2: say if I stepped out of line or god forbid,

976
00:52:15,080 --> 00:52:17,240
Speaker 2: you know, I wanted to do something else in my life.

977
00:52:17,760 --> 00:52:19,680
Speaker 2: What if they wanted to keep me here? What if

978
00:52:19,800 --> 00:52:21,400
Speaker 2: this is all I'm ever going to I'm out to?

979
00:52:21,960 --> 00:52:25,520
Speaker 2: And that really freaked me out. So I think kind

980
00:52:25,520 --> 00:52:30,719
Speaker 2: of from like that mentality, subconsciously, I started recognizing that

981
00:52:30,800 --> 00:52:32,920
Speaker 2: this was so wrong, that this is this is not

982
00:52:32,960 --> 00:52:35,560
Speaker 2: my life path. I want to get out, and I

983
00:52:35,640 --> 00:52:37,960
Speaker 2: made so many attempts to try and get out, or

984
00:52:38,000 --> 00:52:40,080
Speaker 2: I would just come up with really shit excuses like

985
00:52:40,160 --> 00:52:44,719
Speaker 2: I'm sick or whatever. You forget, like I'm dealing with

986
00:52:44,760 --> 00:52:46,960
Speaker 2: men at this point, like men that you don't fuck with.

987
00:52:47,120 --> 00:52:49,719
Speaker 2: So I didn't know how to handle the situation. So

988
00:52:50,160 --> 00:52:52,160
Speaker 2: I'm forever coming out with sick days or I'm going

989
00:52:52,200 --> 00:52:54,319
Speaker 2: on a holiday, or I need to take days off.

990
00:52:54,800 --> 00:52:57,439
Speaker 2: And it became very aggressive of like no, you will

991
00:52:57,440 --> 00:52:59,719
Speaker 2: work these hours, you will not get off the road

992
00:53:00,120 --> 00:53:03,920
Speaker 2: till that sale is made or whatever else, And so I.

993
00:53:03,920 --> 00:53:10,120
Speaker 1: Would imagine that that's.

994
00:53:07,440 --> 00:53:09,360
Speaker 2: No one to talk to. There was no one to

995
00:53:09,400 --> 00:53:12,879
Speaker 2: complain to, So I'm going, okay, I can't trust anyone here,

996
00:53:13,040 --> 00:53:15,239
Speaker 2: I don't know who to speak to. You know, my

997
00:53:15,440 --> 00:53:18,319
Speaker 2: roommate at the time, poor thing copped the full brunt

998
00:53:18,360 --> 00:53:21,759
Speaker 2: of it. I'm going, I'm waking up every day with anxiety,

999
00:53:21,920 --> 00:53:25,280
Speaker 2: like a very new emotion for me, Like it almost

1000
00:53:25,280 --> 00:53:27,399
Speaker 2: felt like someone was stepping on my chest when I'd

1001
00:53:27,400 --> 00:53:30,080
Speaker 2: wake up, and I would always say it like she's

1002
00:53:30,080 --> 00:53:32,640
Speaker 2: my best mate. To this day, I'm going, I don't

1003
00:53:32,640 --> 00:53:34,880
Speaker 2: know what to do, Like, who do I call about this?

1004
00:53:34,920 --> 00:53:36,799
Speaker 2: How do I like? You said, there was no HR,

1005
00:53:37,280 --> 00:53:40,719
Speaker 2: so what do I do? She goes you just you

1006
00:53:40,800 --> 00:53:42,920
Speaker 2: need to get out. You need to be honest with everyone,

1007
00:53:42,960 --> 00:53:45,439
Speaker 2: for starters, because I was only I think I'd only

1008
00:53:45,440 --> 00:53:47,279
Speaker 2: told her and several other people what I was doing.

1009
00:53:47,680 --> 00:53:51,360
Speaker 2: To my family, I was what did I say? Some bullshit?

1010
00:53:51,480 --> 00:53:54,320
Speaker 2: I was either an uber driver or I was a

1011
00:53:54,400 --> 00:53:57,600
Speaker 2: childcare worker, you know, so I was driving around all

1012
00:53:57,600 --> 00:53:57,879
Speaker 2: the time.

1013
00:53:58,120 --> 00:53:59,399
Speaker 1: Did they have suspicions?

1014
00:53:59,800 --> 00:54:02,040
Speaker 2: I didn't think so until I told them.

1015
00:54:02,200 --> 00:54:02,359
Speaker 1: So.

1016
00:54:03,400 --> 00:54:06,960
Speaker 2: After this initial conversation with my friend, I thought, you

1017
00:54:07,000 --> 00:54:10,080
Speaker 2: know what, stuff it. I've had enough. I'm living this

1018
00:54:10,280 --> 00:54:14,280
Speaker 2: massive lie. Maybe if I'm honest about everything, the anxiety

1019
00:54:14,320 --> 00:54:17,400
Speaker 2: will lessen. So I went home. I think it was

1020
00:54:17,440 --> 00:54:20,319
Speaker 2: my twenty first birthday. I went to my family home

1021
00:54:21,320 --> 00:54:23,480
Speaker 2: that night and we're celebrating my birthday, and I said, look,

1022
00:54:23,480 --> 00:54:25,600
Speaker 2: I've got something I need to tell you. I told

1023
00:54:25,640 --> 00:54:27,600
Speaker 2: them what I was doing, and both of my parents

1024
00:54:27,680 --> 00:54:29,120
Speaker 2: kind of looked at each other and they were like,

1025
00:54:29,160 --> 00:54:31,640
Speaker 2: you know what, we kind of had an inkling that

1026
00:54:31,680 --> 00:54:34,360
Speaker 2: you were doing something wrong. We didn't know what it was.

1027
00:54:35,040 --> 00:54:37,960
Speaker 2: But again, they've always given me the kind of this

1028
00:54:38,000 --> 00:54:40,600
Speaker 2: is your life, you're going to make something of it.

1029
00:54:41,480 --> 00:54:44,399
Speaker 2: Not necessarily we trust you, but like we're here when

1030
00:54:44,400 --> 00:54:48,920
Speaker 2: you need us. So once I told them, they said okay, fine.

1031
00:54:49,080 --> 00:54:52,440
Speaker 2: There was no how dare you get out of our house?

1032
00:54:52,480 --> 00:54:54,640
Speaker 2: There was okay, how are we going to fix this?

1033
00:54:55,160 --> 00:54:57,640
Speaker 2: And they've been like that since I was born, you know.

1034
00:54:57,760 --> 00:55:01,600
Speaker 2: So they saw that I was in a situation and

1035
00:55:01,600 --> 00:55:02,880
Speaker 2: they said how are we going to fix this? And

1036
00:55:02,880 --> 00:55:05,359
Speaker 2: I said, look, I don't know. All I can do

1037
00:55:05,440 --> 00:55:07,400
Speaker 2: is be honest, say that I want to leave. I

1038
00:55:07,400 --> 00:55:09,160
Speaker 2: don't know how to get out of it. And so

1039
00:55:10,200 --> 00:55:12,760
Speaker 2: Mum and dad would kind of like, just be honest,

1040
00:55:12,880 --> 00:55:14,839
Speaker 2: you know, just do the right thing. Da da da dad,

1041
00:55:14,840 --> 00:55:18,000
Speaker 2: And I thought, okay, fuck, that can't do that. Criminal mentality.

1042
00:55:18,000 --> 00:55:20,440
Speaker 2: Here we go. So I actually contacted my ex that

1043
00:55:21,200 --> 00:55:23,600
Speaker 2: bad X. We were just speaking about and I said, look,

1044
00:55:24,160 --> 00:55:27,080
Speaker 2: this is what I'm doing, this is what I need

1045
00:55:27,080 --> 00:55:29,080
Speaker 2: help getting out of. You know, this is someone that

1046
00:55:29,160 --> 00:55:31,640
Speaker 2: didn't fear the police, This is someone that didn't fear

1047
00:55:32,160 --> 00:55:36,800
Speaker 2: anyone in life. And so I knew, although I feared him,

1048
00:55:36,960 --> 00:55:38,600
Speaker 2: he was going to help me out of this situation.

1049
00:55:39,080 --> 00:55:43,600
Speaker 2: And so yeah, contacted him, said x y z. He said,

1050
00:55:43,640 --> 00:55:44,839
Speaker 2: all right, this is what you're going to do. You're

1051
00:55:44,880 --> 00:55:46,959
Speaker 2: going to tell them that I have found out about

1052
00:55:46,960 --> 00:55:49,919
Speaker 2: it that and I lied, saying that he was still

1053
00:55:49,920 --> 00:55:55,200
Speaker 2: my actively my partner. I said, yep, x y zed

1054
00:55:55,320 --> 00:55:57,359
Speaker 2: he found out about what I've done, what I'm doing,

1055
00:55:57,719 --> 00:56:00,399
Speaker 2: I can't do it anymore. I'm sure you understand and why.

1056
00:56:01,000 --> 00:56:05,480
Speaker 2: And so that same day drove the car, the drugs,

1057
00:56:05,480 --> 00:56:08,880
Speaker 2: the money, whatever, left it at the drug house. He

1058
00:56:08,960 --> 00:56:11,160
Speaker 2: was in the car with me, absolutely shitting myself thinking

1059
00:56:11,200 --> 00:56:14,719
Speaker 2: that these these people were inside. They weren't, thank god.

1060
00:56:15,200 --> 00:56:17,799
Speaker 2: But yeah, I sent this half aassed text message to

1061
00:56:17,840 --> 00:56:20,520
Speaker 2: the to the main phone saying that I'm done, and

1062
00:56:20,560 --> 00:56:22,840
Speaker 2: then yeah, from from there kind of just held my

1063
00:56:22,920 --> 00:56:25,400
Speaker 2: breath and was and was waiting for an outcome.

1064
00:56:25,600 --> 00:56:28,200
Speaker 1: And what was the outcome? But if you stepped out

1065
00:56:28,239 --> 00:56:31,920
Speaker 1: of that, did they drag you back in? Well, when

1066
00:56:32,000 --> 00:56:33,080
Speaker 1: did you got arrested?

1067
00:56:33,160 --> 00:56:35,879
Speaker 2: Shortly after that, Yeah, how's this fit intuition? So two

1068
00:56:35,880 --> 00:56:39,279
Speaker 2: weeks later we all started getting arrested. So there was

1069
00:56:39,360 --> 00:56:41,880
Speaker 2: about I think there was seven, seven or eight of

1070
00:56:41,960 --> 00:56:46,560
Speaker 2: us in this syndicate. And funnily enough, this anxiety on

1071
00:56:46,640 --> 00:56:49,880
Speaker 2: my chest was was intuition and was telling me, you know,

1072
00:56:50,080 --> 00:56:54,839
Speaker 2: get out, and so I'll never forget living in this

1073
00:56:55,360 --> 00:56:58,480
Speaker 2: ground floor apartment in Bondo. I wake up one morning

1074
00:56:58,800 --> 00:57:01,640
Speaker 2: after I told my parents would happened. I called my mom.

1075
00:57:01,640 --> 00:57:04,720
Speaker 1: And you dropped all your gear off at that stage,

1076
00:57:04,760 --> 00:57:06,799
Speaker 1: and thinking you we're going to get out of it.

1077
00:57:06,880 --> 00:57:08,640
Speaker 2: Everything was done and it.

1078
00:57:08,680 --> 00:57:11,880
Speaker 1: Must come spectacle sometimes.

1079
00:57:10,880 --> 00:57:15,880
Speaker 2: Got Calma's a bit, and everything was fine for a

1080
00:57:15,880 --> 00:57:18,560
Speaker 2: few days. You know, hadn't heard of course, I was anxious,

1081
00:57:18,600 --> 00:57:21,360
Speaker 2: but hadn't heard anything from the people that were running

1082
00:57:21,400 --> 00:57:22,920
Speaker 2: it whatever, and I thought, oh my god, maybe this

1083
00:57:23,040 --> 00:57:25,640
Speaker 2: is it. I'm good. Anyway. I wake up one morning

1084
00:57:25,720 --> 00:57:29,560
Speaker 2: I had a friend send me an article of several

1085
00:57:29,680 --> 00:57:31,520
Speaker 2: of the boys being charged.

1086
00:57:32,440 --> 00:57:34,960
Speaker 1: These are the people you're working for or with for.

1087
00:57:35,400 --> 00:57:38,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, the people I was working for, and so she

1088
00:57:38,640 --> 00:57:41,080
Speaker 2: sent me this article, going, oh my god, is this you?

1089
00:57:42,400 --> 00:57:44,680
Speaker 2: And my heart stopped and I called my mom instantly

1090
00:57:44,720 --> 00:57:47,480
Speaker 2: and I said, they know, like this is this is

1091
00:57:47,560 --> 00:57:49,800
Speaker 2: getting real now. But then I tried to justify it,

1092
00:57:49,840 --> 00:57:52,280
Speaker 2: and I was like, you know what, they got the kingpins,

1093
00:57:52,320 --> 00:57:56,320
Speaker 2: so maybe I'm okay. And my mom said, just get

1094
00:57:56,320 --> 00:57:58,720
Speaker 2: out of the country, like do whatever you can. She goes,

1095
00:57:58,760 --> 00:58:06,080
Speaker 2: this is no, she goes, you know what, this this

1096
00:58:06,120 --> 00:58:09,240
Speaker 2: is your opportunity, like they've obviously they got the people

1097
00:58:09,280 --> 00:58:12,280
Speaker 2: they needed. Danny, it's done, start fresh.

1098
00:58:12,680 --> 00:58:12,840
Speaker 1: Go.

1099
00:58:13,520 --> 00:58:16,240
Speaker 2: So I'm literally I will never forge. I can see

1100
00:58:16,280 --> 00:58:19,280
Speaker 2: it so clearly in my brain. I'm sitting on my

1101
00:58:19,360 --> 00:58:22,800
Speaker 2: lounge in front of so I had two clear sliding

1102
00:58:22,800 --> 00:58:27,280
Speaker 2: doors with blinds, ground level, Bondo Beach. I'm booking flights

1103
00:58:27,280 --> 00:58:29,920
Speaker 2: to Bali in my pajamas. At like nine am in

1104
00:58:29,920 --> 00:58:33,560
Speaker 2: the morning, I see these two guys walk past my

1105
00:58:33,600 --> 00:58:37,120
Speaker 2: balcony stick their heads over and I was like, oh, okay,

1106
00:58:37,240 --> 00:58:40,240
Speaker 2: didn't think anything of it. Ground floor again, and then

1107
00:58:40,480 --> 00:58:43,360
Speaker 2: I hear it bang on the door. I ship myself

1108
00:58:43,400 --> 00:58:45,680
Speaker 2: and I thought it was Strata because we were housing

1109
00:58:45,680 --> 00:58:48,400
Speaker 2: a pitbull. But we had told we had told our

1110
00:58:48,520 --> 00:58:52,960
Speaker 2: leasing agents that we had a two hour I prefer

1111
00:58:55,160 --> 00:58:57,640
Speaker 2: but for for you know, keeping our rest.

1112
00:58:57,680 --> 00:58:59,200
Speaker 1: There is a big difference.

1113
00:59:00,000 --> 00:59:03,120
Speaker 2: We're keeping a nice, you know, tendency. We're like, oh,

1114
00:59:03,200 --> 00:59:05,280
Speaker 2: you know what it's it's just a chwo hour. It's fine.

1115
00:59:05,440 --> 00:59:07,840
Speaker 1: Well, you can identify with whatever you want these days.

1116
00:59:07,840 --> 00:59:14,280
Speaker 1: So maybe he was a pity.

1117
00:59:10,200 --> 00:59:16,200
Speaker 2: I exactly right, exactly right. So I had sent photos

1118
00:59:16,240 --> 00:59:19,640
Speaker 2: of this two hour and we're full blown details to

1119
00:59:20,080 --> 00:59:28,960
Speaker 2: our landlords and they proved him. Our other friends bless him.

1120
00:59:29,000 --> 00:59:32,320
Speaker 2: But anyway, so yeah, this bang on the door and

1121
00:59:32,320 --> 00:59:34,360
Speaker 2: then in an immediate bark. So I'm trying to hold

1122
00:59:34,400 --> 00:59:37,680
Speaker 2: this people's mouth shut and I was like, fuck, it's

1123
00:59:37,720 --> 00:59:40,080
Speaker 2: it's strata. And I looked to my best mate and

1124
00:59:40,120 --> 00:59:42,760
Speaker 2: I said, move, get rid of him, like we're going

1125
00:59:42,800 --> 00:59:45,000
Speaker 2: to get kicked out. Get rid of him. So she's

1126
00:59:45,040 --> 00:59:48,680
Speaker 2: standing in the room with this fully grown people bless her,

1127
00:59:49,480 --> 00:59:53,440
Speaker 2: and I opened the door and sure enough, detectives from

1128
00:59:53,480 --> 00:59:56,160
Speaker 2: Croydon Police where he to arrests. You are you duney

1129
00:59:56,200 --> 00:59:59,640
Speaker 2: ol hogan? Da da da da? And I didn't even

1130
00:59:59,680 --> 01:00:01,120
Speaker 2: know what to think at this point, Like I think

1131
01:00:01,160 --> 01:00:04,640
Speaker 2: I laughed because I was so nervous. I was like, fine,

1132
01:00:05,560 --> 01:00:07,520
Speaker 2: I said, do you know what you're under arrest for?

1133
01:00:07,720 --> 01:00:09,800
Speaker 2: And I said no, no idea And they find about

1134
01:00:09,800 --> 01:00:14,720
Speaker 2: the pit strata is that you and they kind of

1135
01:00:14,760 --> 01:00:17,200
Speaker 2: just laughed it off and said no, like you're you're

1136
01:00:17,280 --> 01:00:21,800
Speaker 2: under arrest a supply this or the other. And then yeah,

1137
01:00:21,800 --> 01:00:25,920
Speaker 2: it was kind of just autopilot from there. I remember

1138
01:00:25,960 --> 01:00:28,800
Speaker 2: asking like, can I at least get out of my pajamas?

1139
01:00:28,800 --> 01:00:30,480
Speaker 2: I still have my coffee cup in hand. I was like,

1140
01:00:30,520 --> 01:00:33,920
Speaker 2: it's nine am, like let me get changed whatever, And

1141
01:00:34,000 --> 01:00:36,800
Speaker 2: so yeah, that was that was history from there.

1142
01:00:36,760 --> 01:00:41,000
Speaker 1: Like we're laughing, but that is a yeah, it's almost

1143
01:00:41,080 --> 01:00:44,640
Speaker 1: like it that's you must have anticipated it was a possibility,

1144
01:00:44,760 --> 01:00:48,120
Speaker 1: but then your ignorant bliss, you're going, no, no, I've

1145
01:00:48,160 --> 01:00:48,760
Speaker 1: got the way of it.

1146
01:00:49,320 --> 01:00:52,400
Speaker 2: Well, not to that degree like it was. You know,

1147
01:00:52,440 --> 01:00:53,480
Speaker 2: they let me get dressed.

1148
01:00:53,800 --> 01:00:57,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that was that was lucky because sometimes a

1149
01:00:57,120 --> 01:01:01,120
Speaker 1: gad you're coming with taking you as whatever you're wearing,

1150
01:01:01,160 --> 01:01:03,560
Speaker 1: and that might be your pajamas, and that's tough time

1151
01:01:03,560 --> 01:01:05,280
Speaker 1: in prison, but it's a worth time if you.

1152
01:01:06,320 --> 01:01:08,400
Speaker 2: Time in prison. At least, no one told me that

1153
01:01:08,440 --> 01:01:10,760
Speaker 2: I needed, like bag your clothes or something. I walked

1154
01:01:10,760 --> 01:01:13,680
Speaker 2: out and you know, the tightest clothes possible. But walking

1155
01:01:13,720 --> 01:01:17,240
Speaker 2: out of my home, you know, there was ABC nine

1156
01:01:17,280 --> 01:01:22,040
Speaker 2: News seven, News Channel ten like it was relentless from there.

1157
01:01:22,240 --> 01:01:24,760
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, preparing for the podcast, I had to look

1158
01:01:24,800 --> 01:01:27,439
Speaker 1: at some of the media coverage and they certainly rolled

1159
01:01:27,480 --> 01:01:28,200
Speaker 1: you out, didn't they.

1160
01:01:28,440 --> 01:01:31,480
Speaker 2: I was disgusting. Like even the arresting officer like he,

1161
01:01:32,240 --> 01:01:35,280
Speaker 2: like I said before, like he actually apologized and said,

1162
01:01:35,280 --> 01:01:37,360
Speaker 2: we're about to make an example out of you. Yeah,

1163
01:01:37,480 --> 01:01:39,720
Speaker 2: And I couldn't, for the life of me understand why.

1164
01:01:39,880 --> 01:01:44,000
Speaker 2: And then yeah, several months later, after all of these

1165
01:01:44,320 --> 01:01:46,720
Speaker 2: headlines coming out, I'm going, Wow, I'm learning some stuff

1166
01:01:46,720 --> 01:01:47,480
Speaker 2: about myself.

1167
01:01:48,920 --> 01:01:51,880
Speaker 1: I always believe what you've read in the article. Yeah,

1168
01:01:52,200 --> 01:01:55,160
Speaker 1: so at that point in time you arrested, that was

1169
01:01:55,400 --> 01:01:59,320
Speaker 1: I think there were five charges. You interviewed or tell

1170
01:01:59,360 --> 01:02:01,160
Speaker 1: us what happened when you're taken to the police station,

1171
01:02:01,280 --> 01:02:03,600
Speaker 1: because I think if there's a lesson to be learned,

1172
01:02:03,680 --> 01:02:06,360
Speaker 1: people often think, hm, Okay, it won't happen to me,

1173
01:02:06,400 --> 01:02:09,000
Speaker 1: and they roll the dice or whatever. But I haven't

1174
01:02:09,000 --> 01:02:12,120
Speaker 1: seen anyone that's gone to a police station been arrested

1175
01:02:12,120 --> 01:02:15,280
Speaker 1: for the first time where it doesn't impact on them significantly.

1176
01:02:15,400 --> 01:02:19,240
Speaker 2: Oh, it impacted in ways that I couldn't even fathom

1177
01:02:19,240 --> 01:02:23,160
Speaker 2: at that point, but in retrospect, like, I'm very grateful now.

1178
01:02:23,240 --> 01:02:27,600
Speaker 2: So when I was arrested, I was going, what the hell, Like,

1179
01:02:27,640 --> 01:02:30,720
Speaker 2: I'm put in a cell that's literally like a meter

1180
01:02:30,880 --> 01:02:33,720
Speaker 2: by maybe fifty centimeters. You can't even stretch your legs

1181
01:02:33,720 --> 01:02:35,680
Speaker 2: out from one side to the other, you know. And

1182
01:02:36,760 --> 01:02:38,560
Speaker 2: for the life of me, I couldn't really understand what

1183
01:02:38,640 --> 01:02:40,520
Speaker 2: was going on or what was going to happen from here,

1184
01:02:41,280 --> 01:02:43,320
Speaker 2: you know. Being in the lifestyle that I was in,

1185
01:02:43,760 --> 01:02:45,480
Speaker 2: I met so many people that have either been to

1186
01:02:45,560 --> 01:02:49,160
Speaker 2: jail before or have you know, done some pretty interesting

1187
01:02:49,280 --> 01:02:52,840
Speaker 2: things and maybe like they didn't necessarily go to jail.

1188
01:02:52,880 --> 01:02:54,800
Speaker 2: So I'm going, oh, I'll be fine, I'll be fine whatever.

1189
01:02:55,560 --> 01:02:59,480
Speaker 2: And so I'm sitting in there and I was like,

1190
01:02:59,600 --> 01:03:01,160
Speaker 2: in my mind at that point, I was like, I

1191
01:03:01,200 --> 01:03:05,120
Speaker 2: haven't done anything that that bad, you know, and so

1192
01:03:05,480 --> 01:03:08,520
Speaker 2: I'll never forget. I'm sitting in the interview room they're

1193
01:03:08,520 --> 01:03:11,680
Speaker 2: preparing to interview me, and two male detectives sit down

1194
01:03:12,320 --> 01:03:14,480
Speaker 2: and all of a sudden, one by one, they start

1195
01:03:15,040 --> 01:03:16,960
Speaker 2: throwing all these pieces of paper in front of me

1196
01:03:17,040 --> 01:03:20,960
Speaker 2: with all this evidence, and to my surprise, there's like

1197
01:03:21,520 --> 01:03:24,840
Speaker 2: one drug house, two, drug house three, and I'm like,

1198
01:03:25,360 --> 01:03:28,080
Speaker 2: I don't know any of this, like I had, I

1199
01:03:28,120 --> 01:03:31,840
Speaker 2: had no idea of how big this operation was. And

1200
01:03:31,920 --> 01:03:34,840
Speaker 2: so I'm looking at all this stuff and shock going

1201
01:03:35,560 --> 01:03:38,320
Speaker 2: like what do they expect me to say to them? Anyway?

1202
01:03:38,560 --> 01:03:41,080
Speaker 2: And then they said, you know, is there anything that

1203
01:03:41,120 --> 01:03:43,200
Speaker 2: you want to add or you want to talk, like,

1204
01:03:43,280 --> 01:03:45,120
Speaker 2: let's let's start this interview. And I was like, no,

1205
01:03:45,320 --> 01:03:47,520
Speaker 2: I've got nothing to say, and they're like, are you

1206
01:03:47,560 --> 01:03:49,560
Speaker 2: saying that? You're like, you don't want to do the interview.

1207
01:03:49,560 --> 01:03:51,280
Speaker 2: I said, well, yeah, I don't want to do the interview.

1208
01:03:51,320 --> 01:03:53,560
Speaker 2: I said, but also like it seems like you more,

1209
01:03:53,840 --> 01:03:56,280
Speaker 2: you know, a lot more than what I do, Like

1210
01:03:56,360 --> 01:03:59,480
Speaker 2: I couldn't even There's nothing I could say about the

1211
01:03:59,520 --> 01:04:02,240
Speaker 2: amount of least work they put into this because the

1212
01:04:02,480 --> 01:04:07,320
Speaker 2: from the surveillance of you and phone records, photos, phone records,

1213
01:04:07,480 --> 01:04:11,120
Speaker 2: but they had had literally tied so they had put

1214
01:04:11,440 --> 01:04:13,600
Speaker 2: cameras in the drug house that I was working out of,

1215
01:04:14,160 --> 01:04:16,320
Speaker 2: but they somehow managed to tie the times that I

1216
01:04:16,360 --> 01:04:18,480
Speaker 2: would walk in the house to the Times that I

1217
01:04:18,520 --> 01:04:20,560
Speaker 2: would text the phone to the times that I would

1218
01:04:20,640 --> 01:04:24,320
Speaker 2: leave the house saying you're fucked. Yeah, it was crazy.

1219
01:04:24,560 --> 01:04:27,720
Speaker 2: It was Clay, They've got you dead. They had me wholeheartedly.

1220
01:04:27,800 --> 01:04:29,800
Speaker 2: So there was nothing I could do but laugh at

1221
01:04:29,800 --> 01:04:32,320
Speaker 2: that point and been like what else can I say?

1222
01:04:32,640 --> 01:04:34,760
Speaker 2: Like this is you see it for what it is,

1223
01:04:35,000 --> 01:04:36,760
Speaker 2: you know. But at the same time, I'm not about to,

1224
01:04:37,080 --> 01:04:40,120
Speaker 2: you know, make it worse for myself or anyone else.

1225
01:04:40,680 --> 01:04:43,120
Speaker 2: But I was more or less shocked at the amount

1226
01:04:43,200 --> 01:04:45,080
Speaker 2: of work that they had put behind this for the

1227
01:04:45,120 --> 01:04:47,360
Speaker 2: last three months, and none of us had any idea

1228
01:04:47,400 --> 01:04:50,960
Speaker 2: about it. The fact that they had put cameras in

1229
01:04:51,000 --> 01:04:53,080
Speaker 2: a place that we were in twenty four to seven.

1230
01:04:53,960 --> 01:04:58,240
Speaker 1: Crazy crazy, But that's you know, it's the ignorance of

1231
01:04:58,880 --> 01:05:02,360
Speaker 1: drug dealers or people involved in that industry, that's it.

1232
01:05:02,360 --> 01:05:06,560
Speaker 1: It's not a hard crime to investigate because people get sloppy,

1233
01:05:06,600 --> 01:05:10,760
Speaker 1: and yeah, they think it's very hard to capture murderers

1234
01:05:11,080 --> 01:05:13,920
Speaker 1: and people don't make mistakes. They're conscious of covering up

1235
01:05:13,920 --> 01:05:17,200
Speaker 1: their crimes. But with drug dealing, it's like follow the

1236
01:05:17,240 --> 01:05:17,960
Speaker 1: bouncing ball.

1237
01:05:18,000 --> 01:05:20,200
Speaker 2: Absolutely, And that's the advice that I give now to

1238
01:05:21,080 --> 01:05:23,680
Speaker 2: you know, any of the young people that I come

1239
01:05:23,680 --> 01:05:25,400
Speaker 2: in contact with that are kind of going down that

1240
01:05:25,400 --> 01:05:29,200
Speaker 2: same path as It's like you are not invincible, like unfortunately,

1241
01:05:30,200 --> 01:05:33,640
Speaker 2: cops will know and will find out everything. Like you

1242
01:05:33,720 --> 01:05:36,760
Speaker 2: are not bulletproof. It will always it's a means to

1243
01:05:36,800 --> 01:05:38,120
Speaker 2: an end. You will always be.

1244
01:05:38,120 --> 01:05:41,040
Speaker 1: Caught and a lot of resources get put into it

1245
01:05:41,080 --> 01:05:44,000
Speaker 1: because it is something that you would have seen. The

1246
01:05:44,000 --> 01:05:46,600
Speaker 1: amount of people in prison that have got the drug

1247
01:05:46,640 --> 01:05:51,040
Speaker 1: habits or in there for drug related defenses, it's quite high.

1248
01:05:51,400 --> 01:05:54,160
Speaker 1: There was a couple of things how it was reported

1249
01:05:54,200 --> 01:05:57,680
Speaker 1: in the media. So it was Strikeforce Northrop that locked

1250
01:05:57,680 --> 01:06:00,880
Speaker 1: you up. So just in case you didn't didn't know that,

1251
01:06:01,040 --> 01:06:04,120
Speaker 1: thank you for The was established to investigate and target

1252
01:06:04,200 --> 01:06:08,360
Speaker 1: ongoing supply of cocaine within the Central Metropolitan Region. In

1253
01:06:08,400 --> 01:06:12,600
Speaker 1: May twenty nineteen, Strikeforce detectives arrested and charged fifty five

1254
01:06:12,680 --> 01:06:17,120
Speaker 1: people during the targeted proactive operation into Dialar dealer services

1255
01:06:17,200 --> 01:06:21,480
Speaker 1: operating through Sydney, CBD and Eastern suburbs. During the operations,

1256
01:06:21,560 --> 01:06:25,560
Speaker 1: officers received information about the activities of a sophisticated organized

1257
01:06:25,600 --> 01:06:29,400
Speaker 1: criminal network involved in facilitating and directing the supply of

1258
01:06:29,400 --> 01:06:33,160
Speaker 1: prohibited drugs through a dialar dealer service. Four men, two

1259
01:06:33,240 --> 01:06:35,680
Speaker 1: age twenty eight and two age twenty nine, and two

1260
01:06:35,760 --> 01:06:38,400
Speaker 1: women aged twenty four and twenty seven have been charged

1261
01:06:38,440 --> 01:06:42,760
Speaker 1: and remain before the courts. That's how it was reported

1262
01:06:42,840 --> 01:06:46,720
Speaker 1: now that type of crime. I wouldn't imagine you got

1263
01:06:46,720 --> 01:06:48,160
Speaker 1: bail from the police station.

1264
01:06:48,560 --> 01:06:50,840
Speaker 2: Not from the police station. No. I was given a

1265
01:06:50,840 --> 01:06:54,200
Speaker 2: happy meal instead, and said unfortunately, literally a happy meal,

1266
01:06:54,280 --> 01:06:56,080
Speaker 2: literally a happy mil And I didn't know that that

1267
01:06:56,200 --> 01:06:59,080
Speaker 2: was kind of like the thing that they do when

1268
01:06:59,120 --> 01:07:01,840
Speaker 2: you don't receive bail. So I was adamant. I was like,

1269
01:07:01,880 --> 01:07:04,680
Speaker 2: you know, I had girls in the in the cells

1270
01:07:04,720 --> 01:07:06,120
Speaker 2: next to me that were like, oh, see this it's

1271
01:07:06,160 --> 01:07:08,240
Speaker 2: your first it's your first crime, You'll be fine. Blah

1272
01:07:08,280 --> 01:07:10,600
Speaker 2: blah blah blah. I was adamant that I was going

1273
01:07:10,640 --> 01:07:11,080
Speaker 2: to get bail.

1274
01:07:11,160 --> 01:07:11,360
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1275
01:07:11,400 --> 01:07:13,800
Speaker 2: And then I had the leading I think it was

1276
01:07:13,800 --> 01:07:16,440
Speaker 2: the leading detective for maybe the chief, that came to

1277
01:07:16,840 --> 01:07:18,440
Speaker 2: my cell and just stood in front of me and

1278
01:07:18,480 --> 01:07:19,880
Speaker 2: he goes, what do you want from McDonald's? And I

1279
01:07:19,920 --> 01:07:21,800
Speaker 2: was like, oh, this place is mad, Like I'm going

1280
01:07:21,840 --> 01:07:23,480
Speaker 2: to I'm going to get a feed. This is called

1281
01:07:24,000 --> 01:07:26,200
Speaker 2: you know. And then I didn't know that that was

1282
01:07:26,200 --> 01:07:29,520
Speaker 2: actually signal for no, you're not leaving tonight. We're going

1283
01:07:29,600 --> 01:07:31,160
Speaker 2: to feed you so that you can go to Surrey

1284
01:07:31,200 --> 01:07:33,640
Speaker 2: Hills tomorrow. And that's exactly what happened.

1285
01:07:33,960 --> 01:07:36,280
Speaker 1: And Surrey Hills is a lovely place, isn't it.

1286
01:07:36,480 --> 01:07:40,440
Speaker 2: I spent more days there than what the average person should,

1287
01:07:40,480 --> 01:07:42,960
Speaker 2: so I think legally you're only supposed to spend a

1288
01:07:42,960 --> 01:07:45,320
Speaker 2: couple of days there. I spent maybe a week and

1289
01:07:45,400 --> 01:07:48,280
Speaker 2: a half. I had to shower in front of men.

1290
01:07:49,240 --> 01:07:53,080
Speaker 2: I didn't receive phone calls to anyone. It is literally

1291
01:07:53,160 --> 01:07:53,920
Speaker 2: hell innocent.

1292
01:07:54,440 --> 01:07:57,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, a lot of people that have been to prison

1293
01:07:57,240 --> 01:08:00,800
Speaker 1: talk about the cells at Surrey Hills and yeah, it's

1294
01:08:01,240 --> 01:08:04,800
Speaker 1: the pits. We might take a break here. There is

1295
01:08:04,840 --> 01:08:08,400
Speaker 1: so much to talk about. And I appreciate your honesty,

1296
01:08:08,480 --> 01:08:10,760
Speaker 1: because you know, what we try and do here is

1297
01:08:10,840 --> 01:08:14,680
Speaker 1: let people understand how you fall into this path. When

1298
01:08:14,720 --> 01:08:16,840
Speaker 1: we get back, we're going to talk about your time

1299
01:08:16,880 --> 01:08:21,479
Speaker 1: in prison. And yeah, I've seen enough of that world

1300
01:08:21,520 --> 01:08:24,040
Speaker 1: to understand you're going in the prison. How old were

1301
01:08:24,080 --> 01:08:24,719
Speaker 1: you at the time.

1302
01:08:25,040 --> 01:08:27,759
Speaker 2: I think I was twenty three, twenty four.

1303
01:08:27,680 --> 01:08:31,680
Speaker 1: Okay, going into prison, fairly naive into the ways of

1304
01:08:31,720 --> 01:08:34,120
Speaker 1: the world. It was going to be a hard time.

1305
01:08:34,240 --> 01:08:37,040
Speaker 1: It was a lot what happened to you in prison,

1306
01:08:37,120 --> 01:08:39,680
Speaker 1: how you survived in prison, and how it made you

1307
01:08:39,760 --> 01:08:42,040
Speaker 1: sort of reflect on yourself and turn your life around,

1308
01:08:42,080 --> 01:08:45,280
Speaker 1: and what you're doing now, which I think is Yeah,

1309
01:08:45,560 --> 01:08:47,880
Speaker 1: if there's a moral of the story, it's what you're

1310
01:08:47,880 --> 01:08:50,360
Speaker 1: doing now and the difference you're trying to make and

1311
01:08:51,320 --> 01:08:54,639
Speaker 1: offset the bad things that have occurred or that you've done.

1312
01:08:54,840 --> 01:08:58,639
Speaker 2: So I can't wait. Well, I'm taking you the prison

1313
01:08:58,720 --> 01:09:01,040
Speaker 2: part two, so maybe go back to go forward?

1314
01:09:01,280 --> 01:09:04,519
Speaker 1: Okay, all right, we'll take a break and be back shortly.

1315
01:09:04,720 --> 01:09:05,920
Speaker 2: Karl wait, thanks for hearing me.

1316
01:09:06,120 --> 01:09:08,040
Speaker 1: Cheers. H