WEBVTT - ‘Ice-ravaged bikies’, rats and money grabs: Inside the clean up at the CFMEU 0:00:01.320 --> 0:00:10.680 From Schwartz Media. I'm Ruby Jones. This is seven AM. 0:00:11.080 --> 0:00:14.440 It's been nearly four months since all branches of the Construction, 0:00:14.680 --> 0:00:19.120 Forestry and Maritime Employees Union were forced into administration and 0:00:19.280 --> 0:00:23.000 hundreds of union officers were kicked out. The government wanted 0:00:23.000 --> 0:00:28.240 a clean slate after allegations of bullying, intimidation and infiltration from. 0:00:28.040 --> 0:00:29.240 Outlaw biky gangs. 0:00:30.080 --> 0:00:33.519 Now some of those underworld figures are seeking payback and 0:00:33.640 --> 0:00:36.320 the man tasked with cleaning up the union is facing 0:00:36.360 --> 0:00:40.800 death threats. Today, Associate editor of the Saturday Paper, Martin 0:00:40.880 --> 0:00:44.240 Mackenzie Murray on the challenge of cleaning up the CFMAU 0:00:44.800 --> 0:00:50.600 and the enduring influence of John Setke and his loyalists. 0:00:54.240 --> 0:01:05.759 It's Tuesday, December seventeenth. 0:01:05.800 --> 0:01:09.040 So, Marty, the last time that you were on seven 0:01:09.080 --> 0:01:12.920 AM back in July, John Setka had just stepped down 0:01:12.959 --> 0:01:16.720 from the CFM you, following allegations of corruption and links 0:01:16.760 --> 0:01:21.360 to organized crimes. So since that moment of his departure, 0:01:21.840 --> 0:01:23.240 what has happened at the union? 0:01:23.640 --> 0:01:27.520 So the point of Sekka's sudden and immediate resignation, he 0:01:27.680 --> 0:01:31.080 was preempting what he knew would be a series of 0:01:31.400 --> 0:01:35.000 scandalous stories in the Nine Papers. It was a kind 0:01:35.000 --> 0:01:38.800 of an earthquake within the construction industry and certainly the union, 0:01:39.480 --> 0:01:45.360 and in a number of pieces whistle blowers had painted 0:01:45.360 --> 0:01:50.520 a picture of a culture of kickbacks, intimidation, blacklisted workers 0:01:51.040 --> 0:01:55.600 and this kind of sinister enmeshment with outlaw bikeys. 0:01:56.040 --> 0:01:59.320 The union is in crisis and even with John Saik gone, 0:02:00.000 --> 0:02:04.320 means deeply compromised. The Brier Pays, Bikeys and underworld figures 0:02:04.680 --> 0:02:08.160 aren't going anywhere fast and the risk is without action 0:02:08.240 --> 0:02:11.079 from governments and the labor movement, their hold in the 0:02:11.120 --> 0:02:13.600 construction sector will only get stronger. 0:02:13.760 --> 0:02:18.520 Since then, legislation was passed to put the CFMEU into administration. 0:02:19.080 --> 0:02:22.840 The Fair Work Commission appointed Mark Irving Case in late 0:02:22.880 --> 0:02:27.680 August to serve as the independent administrator of the union 0:02:28.520 --> 0:02:33.640 and his inheritance, shall we say, has been incredibly complicated 0:02:33.919 --> 0:02:37.000 and it's a very difficult and arguably dangerous position that 0:02:37.040 --> 0:02:37.680 he's assumed. 0:02:38.440 --> 0:02:41.960 So what sort of danger are we talking about, Mary. 0:02:41.919 --> 0:02:46.160 Yeah, it's been reported that Mark Irving as the administrator. 0:02:46.760 --> 0:02:50.600 In October, I believe received information from the Australian Federal 0:02:50.639 --> 0:02:53.600 Police that there are credible death threats out against him. 0:02:53.880 --> 0:02:58.880 Mark Irving now travels with the private security detail. The 0:02:58.919 --> 0:03:03.520 ACT used boss Sally McManus, who has long been critical 0:03:03.560 --> 0:03:06.720 of John Sakka. She gave an interview to the ABC 0:03:07.000 --> 0:03:09.160 a couple of months ago where she said, you know, 0:03:09.200 --> 0:03:11.320 her life had substantially changed this year. 0:03:11.880 --> 0:03:16.400 I've had to change my routines. I lived between different places. 0:03:16.080 --> 0:03:20.639 That's life, unfortunately at the moment, because we're standing up 0:03:20.680 --> 0:03:23.080 to those people and that you know, is a price 0:03:23.120 --> 0:03:27.519 to pay for that. But have the police been helpful, Yes, 0:03:28.120 --> 0:03:28.960 they've been helpful. 0:03:29.360 --> 0:03:31.640 But what I heard last week in my reporting was 0:03:31.680 --> 0:03:36.560 that the principal targets of retribution from rogue elements, and 0:03:36.600 --> 0:03:41.600 by that I mean underworld figures outlaw bikes is the 0:03:41.680 --> 0:03:46.760 old leadership because they had made allegedly had made deals 0:03:46.960 --> 0:03:51.160 with Bikeis, certain bikeies and certain names were put to me. 0:03:51.880 --> 0:03:56.400 Quite dangerous and unstable figures. Ice ravaged was the description 0:03:56.480 --> 0:03:59.600 that was put to me. And now seeking redress, they 0:03:59.640 --> 0:04:03.240 are now well seeking some returns on their investment for 0:04:03.360 --> 0:04:04.600 deals that can no longer be. 0:04:04.560 --> 0:04:08.160 Fulfilled because the CFMEU is now in administration. 0:04:08.440 --> 0:04:11.720 That's right, and crucially to this was their concern that 0:04:11.760 --> 0:04:15.280 perhaps the so called riots of twenty and twenty one 0:04:15.640 --> 0:04:19.480 in front of the Melbourne officers of the CFMEU their 0:04:19.600 --> 0:04:24.000 use of bikes for muscle and to enforce blacklists. That's 0:04:24.080 --> 0:04:30.960 where the involvement with and indebtedness to bikes really accelerated. 0:04:31.240 --> 0:04:35.400 Right, But this old leadership people in the union loyal 0:04:35.600 --> 0:04:40.320 to John Secer have they mostly been removed from a CFMU. 0:04:39.800 --> 0:04:41.119 Now or not? Well? 0:04:41.720 --> 0:04:45.840 SECA was He became kind of notorious for stacking various 0:04:45.920 --> 0:04:51.560 parts of the union with loyalists and people that critics 0:04:51.560 --> 0:04:55.479 of SECA felt weren't actually qualified for their job. In fact, 0:04:55.520 --> 0:04:59.320 their only qualification was deference to John Secker. 0:05:00.160 --> 0:05:02.440 I have seen things in the past. We've had our 0:05:02.440 --> 0:05:07.320 own issues in there with people and we have over 0:05:07.360 --> 0:05:09.040 the years we have dealt for a lot of issues. 0:05:09.080 --> 0:05:11.320 We have removed people from office. How have you dealt 0:05:11.320 --> 0:05:12.920 with them? We've dealt for it internally. 0:05:12.960 --> 0:05:17.120 I mean now, whilst there have been some senior suspensions, 0:05:18.040 --> 0:05:21.760 Setka resigned, his counterpart in New South walest Darren Greenfield, 0:05:22.560 --> 0:05:26.279 is suspended and awaiting trial. In fact, there are still 0:05:26.279 --> 0:05:30.679 a substantial number of those loyalists retained in various roles, 0:05:30.720 --> 0:05:33.920 whether they be shop stewards or whether they be administrative positions. 0:05:34.640 --> 0:05:37.000 And what I've heard is that new staff, that is 0:05:37.040 --> 0:05:40.400 staff brought on by Mark Irving, some of those stuff 0:05:40.520 --> 0:05:45.599 have suspicions about other stuff and are concerned that their 0:05:45.640 --> 0:05:48.960 work might be undermined by these old SETCA loyalists that 0:05:49.040 --> 0:05:57.599 remain in the union. Elsewhere, certain bands of people loyal 0:05:57.680 --> 0:06:00.920 to SECCA are behaving in such a way as it 0:06:01.080 --> 0:06:07.080 contradicts the independent authority of the administrator, and it creates 0:06:07.080 --> 0:06:12.080 a fear rational or not amongst members that the old 0:06:12.120 --> 0:06:16.479 guard will come back, that the administrator is insufficiently strong 0:06:17.240 --> 0:06:22.320 to reign in these kind of rogue influences, rogue factions 0:06:22.360 --> 0:06:24.200 still loyal to SECTCAM. 0:06:26.600 --> 0:06:30.479 After the break, the alleged illegal practices still happening under 0:06:30.520 --> 0:06:43.039 the administrators. Knows Marty, You've been talking to various CFMEU 0:06:43.160 --> 0:06:46.400 sources about the administration and the work that it is 0:06:46.440 --> 0:06:49.880 now doing. So what sense are you getting of how 0:06:49.880 --> 0:06:50.440 it's going. 0:06:51.000 --> 0:06:54.960 It's all incredibly complicated. I should I should point out 0:06:54.960 --> 0:06:57.920 that these sources, who are union officials and union members, 0:06:58.400 --> 0:07:03.520 they are people who themselves have been intimidated, blacklisted, threatened. 0:07:04.480 --> 0:07:07.240 They've risked a fair amount and I guess that's a 0:07:07.279 --> 0:07:12.920 sort of very personal and heightened context for their frustrations 0:07:12.960 --> 0:07:18.000 with the administration. They you know, understandably want the risks 0:07:18.000 --> 0:07:22.120 that they've taken to pay off, and that payoff, that 0:07:22.320 --> 0:07:27.400 is the substantial and meaningful reform of their union. And 0:07:27.480 --> 0:07:30.120 so what was put to me in the last week 0:07:30.320 --> 0:07:33.239 is from the office of the National Secretary, Zach Smith. 0:07:33.640 --> 0:07:36.200 A text message was sent to shop stewards, of which 0:07:36.200 --> 0:07:39.440 they are roughly six hundred, and in it he reminds 0:07:39.440 --> 0:07:43.280 shop stewards to enforce what is an illegal policy, and 0:07:43.320 --> 0:07:46.160 that's no ticket, no start, and what does that mean. 0:07:46.320 --> 0:07:49.880 What that means is refusing entry to non union workers, 0:07:50.520 --> 0:07:53.720 and that's been illegal for some time. And the CFMAU 0:07:54.320 --> 0:07:57.960 in that regard are serial offenders in factors. Two years ago, 0:07:58.040 --> 0:08:02.280 the High Court rest it's frustration with the union, saying 0:08:02.320 --> 0:08:06.560 that they were notoriously serial offenders in that regard, and 0:08:06.600 --> 0:08:11.360 they said that their indifference to financial penalties is such 0:08:11.440 --> 0:08:14.120 that it suggests that they just consider these finds as 0:08:14.160 --> 0:08:17.720 the cost of its preferred business model. And on this 0:08:17.920 --> 0:08:20.960 I put a number of very specific questions to the 0:08:21.000 --> 0:08:26.160 CFMU administrator. They would not speak so that Now, the 0:08:26.160 --> 0:08:29.880 frustration with the officials and members that I've been speaking 0:08:29.920 --> 0:08:33.160 to is not only that brazenness, but that it sends 0:08:33.200 --> 0:08:36.160 a mixed message. So who's actually in charge here? 0:08:36.200 --> 0:08:39.120 They asked, And like you said, you put some questions 0:08:39.120 --> 0:08:42.320 to the administration which they wouldn't answer. But what have 0:08:42.440 --> 0:08:44.719 they said about the progress they've made so far when 0:08:44.760 --> 0:08:46.280 it comes to cleaning up the union? 0:08:46.720 --> 0:08:49.560 It's very difficult. Like I should point out that Mark 0:08:49.600 --> 0:08:53.920 Eving's inheritance is a it's a complicated one. So simultaneously 0:08:53.960 --> 0:08:59.160 the administration is it assumes an investigative capacity or responsibility 0:08:59.200 --> 0:09:01.920 as well as an administ straight of one. It is 0:09:02.000 --> 0:09:06.600 also fairly early days for its existence, and still they're 0:09:06.640 --> 0:09:11.400 determining the scope of its investigations. They're determining what things 0:09:11.400 --> 0:09:15.640 to specifically investigate, and they counsel patients. But when the 0:09:15.640 --> 0:09:19.360 administration came in, it had a legislated lifespan of three 0:09:19.400 --> 0:09:21.960 to five years. Well at the moment we're looking at 0:09:21.960 --> 0:09:25.400 three to four months. There's also a High Court appeal 0:09:25.880 --> 0:09:28.440 which is due to be heard very soon and which 0:09:28.600 --> 0:09:32.800 says that the administration itself is invalid. So that has 0:09:33.320 --> 0:09:36.400 I think encouraged a certain caution and slowness as well. 0:09:37.480 --> 0:09:39.600 But when things like this are happening, it gives the 0:09:39.720 --> 0:09:43.480 sense that the second loyalists that remain in the union 0:09:44.120 --> 0:09:48.080 are operating in a way that may undermine the independence 0:09:48.120 --> 0:09:51.480 and the credibility of the administration. I'll give you another example. 0:09:52.600 --> 0:09:56.880 In October, there was a delegates meeting whereby emotion was 0:09:56.920 --> 0:10:02.160 passed to conceive a donation kitty or ousted or suspended 0:10:02.920 --> 0:10:06.760 members like Seca, although he wasn't suspended, he'd resigned, and 0:10:06.880 --> 0:10:10.440 what was requested was one hundred dollars donation, with the 0:10:10.480 --> 0:10:14.840 prospect of future donations being made as well amongst shop stewards. 0:10:14.920 --> 0:10:17.040 New Times that by roughly six hundred, and you've got 0:10:17.040 --> 0:10:17.560 a little bit. 0:10:17.440 --> 0:10:18.040 Of money there. 0:10:18.440 --> 0:10:21.319 The idea for that was a donation kitty that would 0:10:21.320 --> 0:10:25.360 benefit those who were perhaps unemployed. But that happened before 0:10:26.120 --> 0:10:29.480 their very substantial payouts were made public, and now there's 0:10:29.520 --> 0:10:31.680 some frustration that they were being asked to make these 0:10:31.720 --> 0:10:36.600 donations when John Setka, for example, it's been reported, has 0:10:36.720 --> 0:10:39.160 received about a four hundred and fifty thousand dollars payout, 0:10:39.720 --> 0:10:43.240 so there are questions about what use that money will 0:10:43.280 --> 0:10:47.200 be put to. I know the cfmeu's administrator is aware 0:10:47.240 --> 0:10:50.679 of those donation requests and doesn't like them, but would 0:10:50.880 --> 0:10:55.120 respond formally to my questions about its appropriateness. But in 0:10:55.160 --> 0:10:58.840 response to some very specific questions I put to them, 0:10:59.360 --> 0:11:03.080 there were only confident in responding with a one line, 0:11:03.280 --> 0:11:08.600 rather platitudinous response, which was the administrator is committed to 0:11:08.679 --> 0:11:11.400 keeping the union strong and ensuring its returned to the 0:11:11.440 --> 0:11:15.559 genuine democratic control of the membership, free of criminality and corruption, 0:11:15.720 --> 0:11:19.480 and delivering better safety, pay and conditions, which is what 0:11:19.520 --> 0:11:23.640 you would expect. But that kind of calming restatement of 0:11:23.760 --> 0:11:28.000 mission belies what is a much more complicated and arguably 0:11:28.120 --> 0:11:29.120 dangerous situation. 0:11:29.880 --> 0:11:33.600 So Seca might be gone, but his presence is still 0:11:33.800 --> 0:11:37.280 very much being felt. It sounds inside the CFMAU. What 0:11:37.480 --> 0:11:39.200 is John Secca doing now, Buddy. 0:11:39.960 --> 0:11:46.000 Recently, John Seca made a worker's compensation clem for PTSDA, 0:11:46.679 --> 0:11:49.400 an affliction he says was acquired through his work as 0:11:49.520 --> 0:11:53.400 union leader. A few things contributed to that, he says, 0:11:53.720 --> 0:11:56.880 number of death threats he's received in his time, and 0:11:56.920 --> 0:12:00.840 also his attendance, who was kind of a one of 0:12:00.880 --> 0:12:04.480 the first on the scene of the twenty thirteen Swanston 0:12:04.760 --> 0:12:09.200 Street war collapse, which proved fatal, and he was there 0:12:09.600 --> 0:12:13.960 giving aid. Now officials and member said to me, they 0:12:14.240 --> 0:12:17.640 love the fact that Seca has made this claim. 0:12:18.160 --> 0:12:19.280 They love it. Now. 0:12:19.320 --> 0:12:22.959 What they say is this application for workers' compensation seems 0:12:23.080 --> 0:12:29.040 really hypocritical, because Seca famously was pretty indifferent to appeals 0:12:29.640 --> 0:12:33.320 for comfort and sympathy. In fact, one of his favorite lines, 0:12:33.360 --> 0:12:36.439 and several people told me, you know, having heard this 0:12:36.480 --> 0:12:40.120 directly from Secca over the years, was they should drink 0:12:40.400 --> 0:12:43.160 a cup of concrete and harden the fuck up. And 0:12:43.240 --> 0:12:46.800 so there is some bitter astonishment amongst union members about 0:12:46.800 --> 0:12:51.640 that application for compensation. One said, members see this as 0:12:51.640 --> 0:12:55.479 a money gram. Another said he's got more front than myers. 0:12:56.000 --> 0:12:59.800 A third said, this rat is claiming PTSD. Are you 0:13:00.040 --> 0:13:05.720 aucking kidding me? And whatever existing or surviving sympathy for 0:13:05.840 --> 0:13:10.760 John Seca still exists, they say his application or workers' 0:13:10.800 --> 0:13:14.720 compensation has eroded that, and that ring of people who 0:13:15.280 --> 0:13:17.280 didn't have much respect for him but kept their mouth 0:13:17.320 --> 0:13:20.920 shut may shrink, and people become kind of a little 0:13:20.920 --> 0:13:28.319 braver in speaking out about him. 0:13:28.400 --> 0:13:30.480 Marti, thank you so much for your time. 0:13:30.760 --> 0:13:31.080 Thank you. 0:13:48.080 --> 0:13:50.920 Also in the news today, The five remaining members of 0:13:50.920 --> 0:13:54.319 the Bali Nine, returned to Australia after nearly two decades 0:13:54.400 --> 0:13:58.360 in an Indonesian prison, say they're looking to reintegrate into society. 0:13:58.840 --> 0:14:01.280 The five Australians were part of a group convicted for 0:14:01.320 --> 0:14:04.239 their roles in an attempt to smuggle heroine from Indonesia 0:14:04.280 --> 0:14:07.760 to Australia in two thousand and five. A statement issued 0:14:07.760 --> 0:14:09.840 on behalf of the men said they were relieved and 0:14:09.960 --> 0:14:13.200 happy after Indonesia's decision to allow them to come home. 0:14:13.920 --> 0:14:17.079 And Treasurer Jim Chalmer's overhaul of the Reserve Banks Board 0:14:17.120 --> 0:14:20.640 has been finalized, with six new appointees to the RBA's 0:14:20.680 --> 0:14:24.360 new Governance Board and Monetary Board announced. The appointments will 0:14:24.400 --> 0:14:27.080 begin in March when the RBA's board is formally split 0:14:27.120 --> 0:14:29.800 into two, with one to control interest rates and the 0:14:29.800 --> 0:14:31.360 other to manage the bank's affairs. 0:14:31.800 --> 0:14:35.320 I'm Ruby Jones. This is seven am. See you tomorrow,