WEBVTT - When Donald Trump met Xi Jinping 0:00:01.240 --> 0:00:09.960 I'm Daniel James and you're listening to seven am. Donald 0:00:10.000 --> 0:00:12.360 Trump and Ggping have met face to face for the 0:00:12.400 --> 0:00:15.720 first time in six years. The meeting on the sidelines 0:00:15.720 --> 0:00:17.919 of the Apex Summit comes at a time of deep 0:00:18.000 --> 0:00:21.840 tensions between the world's two largest economies. Tariffs are souring, 0:00:22.160 --> 0:00:25.840 critical minerals are being weaponized, and the battleover tech dominance 0:00:26.120 --> 0:00:30.520 is reshaping global supply chains. Trump likes quick wins while 0:00:30.560 --> 0:00:33.760 g plays the long game. And for Australia, the stakes 0:00:33.760 --> 0:00:36.479 couldn't be higher as we rely on China for our 0:00:36.479 --> 0:00:40.600 prosperity and the US for our security. Today, host of 0:00:40.640 --> 0:00:45.040 the ABC podcast Global Roaming Hamus McDonald and what happened 0:00:45.040 --> 0:00:47.879 at the meeting between the world's two superpowers are what 0:00:47.920 --> 0:01:01.320 it means for Australia. It's Friday, October thirty one, Hamish, 0:01:01.400 --> 0:01:03.920 thanks for speaking with me again. The two men most 0:01:04.000 --> 0:01:09.279 responsible for Australia's prosperity and security, Jijingping and Donald Trump, 0:01:09.360 --> 0:01:10.000 have just met. 0:01:10.120 --> 0:01:12.559 A great honor to be with a friend of mine 0:01:12.560 --> 0:01:14.759 really for a long time now, if you think about it, 0:01:15.360 --> 0:01:21.199 the very very distinguished and respected president of China. 0:01:21.760 --> 0:01:24.279 So just how significant was this meeting? 0:01:24.840 --> 0:01:27.160 Well, you might say it really mattered for us, wouldn't 0:01:27.160 --> 0:01:31.040 you when you think about the influence they have both 0:01:31.080 --> 0:01:33.520 on as you say, in our security arrangements, but also 0:01:33.800 --> 0:01:37.360 our economic livelihood here in Australia, not to mention the 0:01:37.360 --> 0:01:41.640 fact that if they're not getting along jointly, that poses 0:01:41.720 --> 0:01:44.200 an even greater set of risks and even threats to 0:01:44.319 --> 0:01:47.280 US as a nation. So yeah, we as a country 0:01:47.640 --> 0:01:49.760 had a lot riding on this. It went for an 0:01:49.800 --> 0:01:52.520 hour and forty minutes, and at least on the face 0:01:52.560 --> 0:01:55.960 of it, coming out this side of the meeting, it 0:01:56.120 --> 0:01:59.560 seems to have gone about as well as anyone might 0:01:59.600 --> 0:02:00.640 have hoped estions. 0:02:00.720 --> 0:02:02.880 I think we've already agreed to a lot of things, 0:02:02.920 --> 0:02:07.640 and we'll agree to some more right now. But President 0:02:07.760 --> 0:02:11.200 she is a great leader of a great country, and 0:02:11.320 --> 0:02:13.640 I think we're going to have a fantastic relationship for 0:02:14.639 --> 0:02:16.880 a long period of time. And it's an honor to 0:02:16.880 --> 0:02:18.360 have you with us. Sake you very much. 0:02:19.320 --> 0:02:22.480 In terms of Trump's visits to different parts of the world, 0:02:22.600 --> 0:02:26.320 his interactions with other world leaders, it kind of went 0:02:26.440 --> 0:02:29.800 without too many speed bumps even along the way during 0:02:29.800 --> 0:02:32.359 this kind of swing through Southeast Asia up into South 0:02:32.440 --> 0:02:35.000 Korea and then off onto Air Force one and home 0:02:35.280 --> 0:02:38.960 twelve and ten. According to President Trump, he would say that, 0:02:39.000 --> 0:02:41.600 wouldn't he But I don't know if I'd go quite 0:02:41.600 --> 0:02:45.840 that far. But I think you can't ignore the fact 0:02:46.120 --> 0:02:48.720 that Trump came to the AZION summit. That's a big deal. 0:02:48.760 --> 0:02:50.840 That's a kind of a kup for a my Ibrahim, 0:02:50.880 --> 0:02:54.480 the Malaysian Prime minister who's got the current chair of AZION. 0:02:55.520 --> 0:02:59.320 You can't ignore the fact that Trump had very kind 0:02:59.360 --> 0:03:04.239 words to say about Southeast Asia, spoke admiringly of its growth. 0:03:04.240 --> 0:03:07.880 You know, the fastest growing region economically in the world. 0:03:08.400 --> 0:03:12.360 But if you look at I guess from our perspective, Australia. 0:03:12.560 --> 0:03:16.040 Albanesi sat next to him at that dinner in South Korea. 0:03:16.320 --> 0:03:20.320 Trump effusive in his praise for Albanesi, pointing both to 0:03:20.360 --> 0:03:22.560 what they've agreed on so far but the possibility of 0:03:22.639 --> 0:03:27.240 further agreements. Then meeting Sanai Takeichi, the Japanese Prime minister, 0:03:27.639 --> 0:03:29.680 you know, a week and a half into the job, 0:03:30.320 --> 0:03:33.440 she gets this kind of rapturous welcome on board a 0:03:33.600 --> 0:03:38.200 US naval ship. Applause. She's jumping around on the stage waving. 0:03:38.600 --> 0:03:41.400 He says, you know, Japan. You can have anything you want. 0:03:42.320 --> 0:03:44.280 Think about that in the context of some of his 0:03:44.400 --> 0:03:49.320 meetings with European leaders, with Zelenski, even with leaders from 0:03:49.360 --> 0:03:52.280 the Middle East. This is a really very different version 0:03:52.560 --> 0:03:56.600 of Trump, and even the tone and the manner of 0:03:56.600 --> 0:03:59.760 the meeting with Shi Jimpin going in with some pretty 0:03:59.800 --> 0:04:02.200 kind words not although I should point out he did 0:04:02.240 --> 0:04:06.200 say we're going to resume nuclear testing just before going 0:04:06.240 --> 0:04:09.040 into the meeting, so as always playing a couple of 0:04:09.080 --> 0:04:09.720 cards at once. 0:04:10.320 --> 0:04:12.720 Yeah, the meaning comes at a time where the China 0:04:12.800 --> 0:04:17.200 and US relationship has been dodgy. It best in the 0:04:17.200 --> 0:04:19.760 middle of a trade war. So how has the US 0:04:19.880 --> 0:04:22.599 China relationship unfolded under the Trump. 0:04:23.360 --> 0:04:25.800 We've been in a period of what appeared to be 0:04:25.880 --> 0:04:28.480 deliberate antagonism, at least from the US point of view. 0:04:28.520 --> 0:04:31.760 You know, the Liberation Day taris, I think were viewed 0:04:31.760 --> 0:04:33.760 by most of the rest of the world as a 0:04:33.800 --> 0:04:35.719 pretty antagonistic move. 0:04:36.000 --> 0:04:39.880 April second, twenty twenty five will forever be remembered as 0:04:39.920 --> 0:04:45.040 the day American industry was reborn, the day America's destiny 0:04:45.240 --> 0:04:49.400 was reclaimed, and the day that we began to make 0:04:49.680 --> 0:04:54.000 America wealthy again. Going to make it wealthy good. 0:04:54.080 --> 0:04:57.000 So I've seen this description used a lot in terms 0:04:57.040 --> 0:04:59.960 of the Chinese approach in recent months, which is escalat 0:05:00.240 --> 0:05:04.080 to de escalate, And I think to understand that, it's 0:05:04.120 --> 0:05:07.120 worth going back six months in time to when the 0:05:07.240 --> 0:05:10.800 US introduced those tariffs on Chinese goods one hundred and 0:05:10.839 --> 0:05:14.880 forty five percent. The Chinese then responded with one hundred 0:05:14.880 --> 0:05:19.680 and twenty five percent tariffs, So that's kind of escalation one. 0:05:19.880 --> 0:05:23.279 But then there's the whole question of chips and then 0:05:23.600 --> 0:05:26.680 rare earth minerals. So the thing that's really upset the 0:05:26.760 --> 0:05:31.919 Chinese is that the Trump administration suddenly clamped down on 0:05:31.960 --> 0:05:35.080 how much the US and Nvidia, being the big player here, 0:05:35.400 --> 0:05:39.719 could export these much needed chips, advanced chips to China 0:05:40.000 --> 0:05:42.800 used for advanced computing, but weaponry, A lot of the 0:05:42.800 --> 0:05:46.440 things that China is so madly trying to develop they 0:05:46.440 --> 0:05:49.920 relied on that. Suddenly the supply of that was radically reduced. 0:05:50.839 --> 0:05:56.880 In recent weeks, China escalated and decided to put export 0:05:56.960 --> 0:05:59.440 controls on process rare earth minerals. 0:06:00.000 --> 0:06:02.960 Fury Secretary Scott Besson says China is trying to hurt 0:06:02.960 --> 0:06:03.960 the world's economy. 0:06:04.000 --> 0:06:07.000 Whether it's sweeping where Earth controls because of a sign 0:06:07.040 --> 0:06:09.080 of how weak the country's economy is. 0:06:09.400 --> 0:06:12.719 The Financial Times published this is where Australia was dealt 0:06:12.760 --> 0:06:15.400 into the picture. Kind of luckily for Anthony Alberizi because 0:06:15.400 --> 0:06:18.360 it happened just before he went to Washington for that 0:06:18.680 --> 0:06:22.159 long awaited meeting, and an issue that Australia had wanted 0:06:22.200 --> 0:06:24.039 to deal with in America for a long time was 0:06:24.080 --> 0:06:27.320 the processing an extraction of rare earth minerals from here, 0:06:28.279 --> 0:06:31.719 and Beijing kind of offered this kind of golden opportunity 0:06:31.760 --> 0:06:35.400 for Albanesi to offer something to Trump that he really wanted. 0:06:35.480 --> 0:06:38.440 But that kind of escalate to de escalate seems to 0:06:38.560 --> 0:06:41.880 have worked. I've already seen lots of people saying who 0:06:41.920 --> 0:06:45.720 blinked first, but I think clearly to some degree Trump 0:06:45.960 --> 0:06:49.960 blinked because it did go to this willing to ratchet 0:06:50.000 --> 0:06:52.640 things down, and coming out of the meeting, we're told 0:06:52.640 --> 0:06:55.560 that the hurdles on rare earths have been removed, that 0:06:55.640 --> 0:06:57.600 the Chinese are going to get a meeting with the 0:06:57.680 --> 0:07:02.440 Nvidia CEO. There's an indication that the soybean purchased from 0:07:02.520 --> 0:07:06.240 China from America was going to begin again. So certainly 0:07:06.279 --> 0:07:07.040 positive sounds. 0:07:07.440 --> 0:07:10.200 So he's saying they've escalated in the lead up, and 0:07:10.240 --> 0:07:13.480 they've both now de escalated as they've gone into this meeting. 0:07:14.360 --> 0:07:18.400 I saw someone describe this as like two people that 0:07:18.560 --> 0:07:21.600 started a fire coming together to try and put it out. 0:07:22.160 --> 0:07:24.840 Maybe that's a helpful way of thinking about it. And 0:07:24.920 --> 0:07:29.200 you know, she, in many ways, he's like the complete 0:07:30.080 --> 0:07:34.360 polar opposite of Trump. Trump goes in swaggering, saying things 0:07:34.400 --> 0:07:37.800 off the calf, nothing is on script. She is totally 0:07:37.840 --> 0:07:41.560 on script. And he's talking about these two men that 0:07:41.600 --> 0:07:45.440 can sail ships together through choppy waters and that the 0:07:45.480 --> 0:07:49.240 world can find sort of smooth sailing ahead if they're 0:07:49.280 --> 0:07:52.400 able to work together. You know, it's not like this 0:07:52.520 --> 0:07:57.320 meeting could ever resolve everything. There are key geostrategic issues 0:07:57.320 --> 0:07:59.760 which haven't been resolved. I don't think we know yet 0:07:59.760 --> 0:08:01.600 what's going to happen with TikTok. That was one of 0:08:01.600 --> 0:08:04.320 the other things that Trump wanted to deal with in 0:08:04.360 --> 0:08:09.080 this meeting. But that said, and to their credit, they've 0:08:09.200 --> 0:08:11.360 emerged from this with Trump saying that she is going 0:08:11.400 --> 0:08:14.640 to visit him in America, that Trump is going to 0:08:14.760 --> 0:08:18.520 before that visit China. So at least, and this is 0:08:18.600 --> 0:08:21.360 maybe the thing that we can take away from this 0:08:21.720 --> 0:08:25.760 is that the stuff that remains unresolved at least has 0:08:25.800 --> 0:08:28.600 a context to be resolved. You know, that framework that 0:08:28.720 --> 0:08:31.080 underpinning is there because the leaders are due to have 0:08:31.160 --> 0:08:34.000 meetings and that need to cancel them. They need to 0:08:34.040 --> 0:08:37.240 pull out of them, and that would in itself be 0:08:37.280 --> 0:08:42.600 a big thing to do. So I think we can, 0:08:43.600 --> 0:08:46.640 you know, with all the usual caveats around everything to 0:08:46.720 --> 0:08:49.240 do with Donald Trump, we can have a bit of 0:08:49.280 --> 0:08:53.400 cautious hope that the trade war is not going to 0:08:53.640 --> 0:08:56.040 at least escalate at this point. They're still going to 0:08:56.080 --> 0:08:58.679 be trade barriers there by the way, you know, don't forget. 0:08:58.360 --> 0:09:04.360 That coming up. Jijiping says tensions between the two countries 0:09:04.440 --> 0:09:15.920 is normal. So where does this leave Australia. Can you 0:09:15.960 --> 0:09:18.840 tell me a little bit more about Jijiping's vision for 0:09:18.920 --> 0:09:21.960 China's future and how America plays into that or has 0:09:22.000 --> 0:09:23.640 the potential to thwart it. 0:09:23.880 --> 0:09:24.080 Yeah. 0:09:24.080 --> 0:09:26.199 So we actually we did an episode on this just 0:09:26.280 --> 0:09:30.480 last week on Global rhyming about the picture domestically in China, 0:09:30.600 --> 0:09:34.280 because you know, the reality is, Trump sucks up so 0:09:34.440 --> 0:09:37.320 much of the global news oxygen that in a way, 0:09:38.000 --> 0:09:41.120 even though we talk about this great power rivalry, we 0:09:41.200 --> 0:09:44.120 don't often look that closely at what exactly is going 0:09:44.200 --> 0:09:47.320 on inside China. And they've just held the Fourth Plenum, 0:09:48.160 --> 0:09:51.520 which is this kind of meeting where not actually a 0:09:51.600 --> 0:09:54.760 lot happens at the meeting. It's pretty boring itself, but 0:09:55.320 --> 0:09:58.000 it's all of the planning and the decisions that go 0:09:58.080 --> 0:10:00.120 into that that then get delivered at the meeting that 0:10:00.200 --> 0:10:03.760 give us some insight into what China is trying to do. 0:10:03.920 --> 0:10:07.719 And there's enormous challenges domestically in terms of the economy. 0:10:08.080 --> 0:10:11.400 There's a kind of looming pension crisis. Some economists argue 0:10:11.480 --> 0:10:14.920 because of the aging population, they've got a demographic problem 0:10:15.000 --> 0:10:17.960 because not enough people are being born's actually, you know, 0:10:19.200 --> 0:10:23.079 likely to have a reducing population in the years ahead. 0:10:23.440 --> 0:10:26.000 As well as that sort of domestic consumption is not 0:10:26.040 --> 0:10:29.600 where it should be, and that does also have broader 0:10:29.880 --> 0:10:32.959 geopolitical implications because you can't spend as much on your 0:10:33.480 --> 0:10:36.679 defense advancements and the growth of your military if you're 0:10:36.720 --> 0:10:40.160 trying to kind of stock up the internal economy. There 0:10:40.240 --> 0:10:44.160 was some speculation going into this Fourth Plenum that there 0:10:44.240 --> 0:10:48.480 might be some hints at succession planning Fashijinping. I don't 0:10:48.520 --> 0:10:50.960 think anything's come out that's given a clear pointed to that, 0:10:51.360 --> 0:10:54.200 but there was a pretty big purge of both military 0:10:54.200 --> 0:10:58.920 officials and Communist Party officials leading into this fourth Plenum, 0:10:59.360 --> 0:11:03.400 So you interpret from that what you will. Obviously, there's 0:11:03.440 --> 0:11:06.960 the question of whether a communist system can engage in 0:11:07.000 --> 0:11:09.520 active renewal because it's not kind of inbuilt in the 0:11:09.520 --> 0:11:12.400 way that it is in a democracy. So I guess 0:11:12.440 --> 0:11:16.280 probably people that are admirers of Shi Jinping might say, well, 0:11:16.280 --> 0:11:18.560 that's an example of him being both tough on corruption, 0:11:19.559 --> 0:11:22.960 weary of internal threats, but also eager to make sure 0:11:22.960 --> 0:11:26.080 that the system itself is engaged in some sort of 0:11:26.120 --> 0:11:27.880 process of renewal. 0:11:28.760 --> 0:11:31.319 Australia's been in a tricky position over the last a 0:11:31.360 --> 0:11:34.040 little while by having our security partner in the US 0:11:34.600 --> 0:11:36.760 in a trade war with China, who we rely on 0:11:36.800 --> 0:11:40.160 for our prosperity. What will Anthony Albanez you be hoping 0:11:40.280 --> 0:11:42.240 for when it comes to the next chapter in the 0:11:42.360 --> 0:11:43.640 US China relationship. 0:11:44.120 --> 0:11:50.920 Okay, so stability, that's a fundamental for Australia. I imagine 0:11:50.960 --> 0:11:56.040 that our Prime minister would be hoping that the US 0:11:56.880 --> 0:12:02.120 doesn't get more aggressive in asking us to limit what 0:12:02.160 --> 0:12:04.640 we do with China. That's a real risk for us 0:12:04.760 --> 0:12:08.839 on the security front, that if this kind of trade 0:12:08.880 --> 0:12:11.640 war scenario were to escalate or to hit another low 0:12:11.679 --> 0:12:15.880 point or friction point, that we might be asked to 0:12:16.400 --> 0:12:20.800 limit our supply of say rare earths or iron ore 0:12:21.160 --> 0:12:25.480 or other commodities to China as part of our alliance 0:12:25.600 --> 0:12:28.559 with the United States. That would be a pretty dire 0:12:28.640 --> 0:12:30.679 scenario for Australia. 0:12:30.840 --> 0:12:31.760 I don't think we're. 0:12:31.720 --> 0:12:34.040 Anywhere close to that, but I think certainly some of 0:12:34.040 --> 0:12:36.600 the language that we've heard out of the United States 0:12:37.040 --> 0:12:38.959 has meant that a lot of people here have been 0:12:39.000 --> 0:12:44.199 asking that question. What happens if I think Taiwan wasn't 0:12:44.200 --> 0:12:47.959 discussed at this meeting between Trump and Hijinping, but it's 0:12:47.960 --> 0:12:51.240 still there. It's still probably the security question in this 0:12:51.360 --> 0:12:56.600 region of the world, and Australia's position is to support 0:12:56.640 --> 0:13:00.240 the status quote. It would be quite easy to rock 0:13:00.280 --> 0:13:05.600 that status quo, and that status quo shift would have 0:13:05.640 --> 0:13:08.679 big implications for US, not just in terms of security, 0:13:08.679 --> 0:13:14.000 but also in terms of our trade relationships. So I 0:13:14.040 --> 0:13:18.160 think as long as no one's really making a big 0:13:18.200 --> 0:13:21.560 move to change the status quo. I think our Prime 0:13:21.559 --> 0:13:26.719 Minister would be maybe not relaxed, but that would probably 0:13:26.760 --> 0:13:29.320 be a good outcome in terms of, you know, the 0:13:29.360 --> 0:13:33.240 immediate next chapter. If there's no big move, no big shift, 0:13:33.480 --> 0:13:34.800 that's kind of good for Australia. 0:13:35.920 --> 0:13:38.120 I guess Albanez would be happy that mum and dad 0:13:38.120 --> 0:13:39.560 are at least talking to each other again. 0:13:40.280 --> 0:13:40.480 Yeah. 0:13:40.520 --> 0:13:43.160 I think, look, he's probably just focused on making sure 0:13:43.200 --> 0:13:45.480 he's not wearing a T shirt when he gets off 0:13:45.480 --> 0:13:46.599 the plane. 0:13:47.200 --> 0:13:49.080 Amy, thank you once again for coming on the show. 0:13:49.160 --> 0:13:49.920 Really appreciate it. 0:13:50.920 --> 0:13:51.640 Thanks Daniel. 0:14:06.600 --> 0:14:09.360 Also in the news, a seventeen year old boy has 0:14:09.440 --> 0:14:12.400 died after being hit by a cricket ball. Ben Austin 0:14:12.480 --> 0:14:14.880 was practicing in the nets in Melbourne's East earlier this 0:14:14.960 --> 0:14:17.400 week when he was struck in the neck while wearing 0:14:17.400 --> 0:14:20.640 a helmet. He was rushed to hospital in a critical condition, 0:14:21.040 --> 0:14:24.440 but died in hospital yesterday. The incident was similar to 0:14:24.440 --> 0:14:27.479 the one that killed cricketer Philip Hughes a decade ago. 0:14:27.760 --> 0:14:30.000 The teenager's family said their hearts go out to the 0:14:30.040 --> 0:14:34.640 boy he bowled. The fatal ball and barleyby Joyce is 0:14:34.680 --> 0:14:38.720 being investigated by the Parliamentary Workplace Support Service following an 0:14:38.760 --> 0:14:42.320 allegation he shouted at a female staffer of a National's colleague. 0:14:42.680 --> 0:14:44.760 Joyce denies the claim that he yelled at the warning 0:14:44.920 --> 0:14:46.680 after she asked him to fill out a leaf form 0:14:46.760 --> 0:14:49.920 to attend a funeral. Both Michelle Landry, the MP who 0:14:49.960 --> 0:14:52.880 the staffer works for, and National's leader Dave a Little 0:14:52.880 --> 0:14:56.760 Proud released matching statements saying they trust the support Services 0:14:56.760 --> 0:15:00.760 to do its job and would not comment further. Daniel James, 0:15:00.880 --> 0:15:03.680 This is seven am. See you tomorrow for a breakdown 0:15:03.720 --> 0:15:06.280 of the biggest political stories of the week with Press 0:15:06.320 --> 0:15:09.000 Gallery journalist Karen Middleton. Thanks for listening.