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Speaker 1: So if I asked you to draw me a picture,

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Speaker 1: would you say, oh, ah, kundra. If I asked you

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Speaker 1: to sing me a song, would you say, clough man,

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Speaker 1: I can't sing. You don't want to hear that. If

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Speaker 1: I asked you could you dance? Could you dance right now?

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Speaker 1: Would you say? Oh no, no, I'm a terrible dancer. Nobody

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Speaker 1: needs to see that. I will bet you one hundred

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Speaker 1: crisp Australian dollars that If I walked into my son

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Speaker 1: Wolfgang staycare and I asked him or any of the

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Speaker 1: other four year olds there, they would say, can I draw?

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Speaker 1: Give me some paper, give me some pens. Stand back,

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Speaker 1: I Am going to draw you something you have never seen.

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Speaker 1: They would burst into song with joy in their hearts.

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Speaker 1: They would dance with life in their eyes that you

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Speaker 1: just cannot imagine. The thing is every single one of you.

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Speaker 1: She used to feel that way about expressing ourselves creatively.

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Speaker 1: But what if I told you that that creativity, that

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Speaker 1: thing is actually still there, There's still inside you right now.

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Speaker 1: In fact, it never left. What if I told you

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Speaker 1: there's a way you can find it again. On this episode,

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Speaker 1: my guest Deborah Francis White She actually describes just one way,

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Speaker 1: but there's many. She describes just one way that today,

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Speaker 1: this day, you can unlock some of that once again.

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Speaker 1: Deborah is a remarkable woman. She's a creator and the

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Speaker 1: host of The Guilty Feminist. It's a fantastic podcast. It's

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Speaker 1: best described by a quote, and it's her quote, and

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Speaker 1: it goes like this, I quote, I'm a feminist, but

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Speaker 1: one time I went on a women's march, a women's

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Speaker 1: rights march, and I popped into a department store to

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Speaker 1: you use a loo, got distracted trying out face cream.

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Speaker 1: When I came out, the march was gone. End quote.

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Speaker 1: That pretty much sums up Deborah and the fantastic podcast

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Speaker 1: that is The Guilty Feminist. It's an award winning podcast.

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Speaker 1: It's a massive live show. It discusses the noble goals

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Speaker 1: of twenty first century feminists, as well as being brave

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Speaker 1: enough to discuss the hypocrisies and the insecurities that undermine

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Speaker 1: those goals. Deborah yesterday actually just wrapped up a national tour,

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Speaker 1: and today you'll hear her describe some of the things

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Speaker 1: that happened on that tour, including possibly the best ever

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Speaker 1: self defense class, possibly of all time, which took place

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Speaker 1: at one of her gigs. About a thousand people were there.

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Speaker 1: You get to benefit from that self defense classes then

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Speaker 1: as well. You'll learn something today from that, which was fantastic.

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Speaker 1: Debraa so many things. She's also a cult survivor. Hearing

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Speaker 1: how she escaped a church that was controlling her life

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Speaker 1: and hearing the role that improvised theater played in that escape,

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Speaker 1: it's absolutely staggering. Deborah Francis White is an ARC furnace

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Speaker 1: of blazing intelligence, a brain the size of a planet.

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Speaker 1: She has a drive and a determination to learn and

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Speaker 1: create and do and share and give to others what

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Speaker 1: it was that saved her life. She is incredibly self aware,

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Speaker 1: and the way that she gets after things that she

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Speaker 1: may not want to do, but she knows, she knows

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Speaker 1: it's good for her, it is inspiring. I'm overjoyed that

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Speaker 1: she came over and I can't wait for you to

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Speaker 1: get to nowhere. I do need to keep these lights on, though,

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Speaker 1: so I'm going to play some ads.

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Speaker 2: I'll be back after the break.

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Speaker 1: Gooday, welcome to the show. This is better than yesterday,

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Speaker 1: making it better every episode since twenty thirteen. I'm wastcha Ginsburg,

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Speaker 1: and I'm very grateful that you're here. I'm a podcaster,

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Speaker 1: I'm a best selling author, I'm a TV host, I'm

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Speaker 1: a step dad, I'm a gold LOGI loser, an electric

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Speaker 1: vehicle enthusiast. In fact, I've been driving in this and

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Speaker 1: Leaf since twenty eleven. We've got a new one. Like

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Speaker 1: I've a few different actual cars, but it's the same

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Speaker 1: kind of car. I just really liked driving them really nice.

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Speaker 1: I am someone who this afternoon, after getting a takeaway

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Speaker 1: pizza from the shop down the road with my son,

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Speaker 1: we were putting a pizza in the car and three

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Speaker 1: black cockatoos alighted in the banks Here Bush across the street,

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Speaker 1: and Wolf and I wanted to go over and have

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Speaker 1: a look. And these gigantic animals which as long as

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Speaker 1: my arm. We're just crunching into those big furry Banksier

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Speaker 1: seed pods. She's wow, like the Jurassic Park screaming. That

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Speaker 1: was extraordinary. Anyway, I like those birds. It's nothing about me,

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Speaker 1: and I'm glad you're here. If you do like the show,

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Speaker 1: you can find every episode ever at Osha Ginsberg dot com.

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Speaker 1: If you don't like the show, hey at Oshi at

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Speaker 1: Ginsberg dot com. There's a contact form you can feel in.

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Speaker 1: You can let me know how much you don't like

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Speaker 1: the show. I don't mind. Deborah Francis White's here. I'll

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Speaker 1: put links to her book and links to her podcasts

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Speaker 1: and all the stuff we talk about to put it

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Speaker 1: in the show notes. She's next level. You're in for

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Speaker 1: a treat. Enjoy the show. How were you?

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Speaker 3: I'm very well, thank you.

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Speaker 1: I'm so glad you came.

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Speaker 3: I'm delighted to be here. It's an unqualified.

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Speaker 1: Delight, an unqualified delight. Well, you've arrived on, You've arrived

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Speaker 1: on rather a special night, have I Yeah, my wife

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Speaker 1: and I are going on a date, date night. It

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Speaker 1: is date night.

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Speaker 3: Listen, you can't argue with a good date night.

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Speaker 1: Do you still find time to make date night?

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Speaker 4: We do, Actually, I do make sure that we do

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Speaker 4: spend some time together whenever I'm in the same cities.

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Speaker 4: I'm on tour at the moment, so it feels like

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Speaker 4: I'm not there much. But I turned up to the

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Speaker 4: show in Adelaide and there was there were flowers in

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Speaker 4: the dressing room because and I went That's when I

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Speaker 4: remember it was our anniversary and so sweet of him.

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Speaker 4: They were so beautiful and I was like, I have

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Speaker 4: to fly to Sydney tomorrow or wherever we were going

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Speaker 4: Perth and he said, I know, I figured you'd give

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Speaker 4: them someone at the theater, but I just you know,

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Speaker 4: it was a really beautiful card and it was lovely.

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Speaker 4: So yeah, no, there's still romance definitely in our in

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Speaker 4: our relationship.

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Speaker 1: That's lovely.

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Speaker 4: We live ten minutes from the West Ends, so we

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Speaker 4: go to the theater a lot. Ah, so it's really nice.

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Speaker 1: You were talking, we were talking upstairs about the cultural

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Speaker 1: chasm that Sydney has become.

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Speaker 4: Well, I think it's it's incredible. It's just not seven

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Speaker 4: nights a week the way London is. Whenever I see

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Speaker 4: something in Sydney, I absolutely adore it. But I always

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Speaker 4: get surprised if I come here and they go, oh, well,

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Speaker 4: this theater there's something on this month, but not this month,

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Speaker 4: and this theater not showing anything at the moment, and

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Speaker 4: I wish they'd talk and go, well, if we do

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Speaker 4: something at this time, will you do something at this time.

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Speaker 3: But also when you're in Sydney, you.

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Speaker 4: Just want to be outside, like I absolutely guess it,

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Speaker 4: like in London We're always at the theater because outside

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Speaker 4: is grim. So I completely understand the theater of the harbor,

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Speaker 4: the theater of the beaches, the theater of you know,

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Speaker 4: the park.

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Speaker 3: It's just stunning all the time. There's a lot of.

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Speaker 4: Alfresco conversation and rose drinking here that you can't do

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Speaker 4: in London side.

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Speaker 3: So I don't blame anybody, but.

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Speaker 1: When I first moved here there was a lot more

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Speaker 1: of that sort of thing. Culturally. What you miss as

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Speaker 1: a community, the cohesion amount of art and performance brings

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Speaker 1: to a community is really underestimated in value as far

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Speaker 1: as what makes us tick and makes us be okay

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Speaker 1: with each other.

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Speaker 3: Totally yes.

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Speaker 4: When I lived in Sydney in the nineties it was

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Speaker 4: said that two in three in the Eastern suburbs were gay,

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Speaker 4: and it was such a phenomenal place of culture and

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Speaker 4: coming together. But it was also a little bit like

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Speaker 4: an army of people who'd moved from other parts of

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Speaker 4: Australia who had experienced severe homophobia and were like, we're

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Speaker 4: all in the one place now, so you're going to

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Speaker 4: beat us up now. And there was an energy of

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Speaker 4: that to it which I totally totally understood and it

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Speaker 4: was completely, absolutely valid. It created a lot of amazing culture.

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Speaker 4: But I am very glad that Australia has made such

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Speaker 4: strides forward against homophobia, that people feel safe to be

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Speaker 4: where they are now and don't have to come together

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Speaker 4: and stand shoulder to shoulder in a frightened and you know,

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Speaker 4: and just not frightened but you know, like they don't

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Speaker 4: have to be an army anymore. They can be in

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Speaker 4: their own communities with their own families, and that is

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Speaker 4: an incredible thing. So there is always stuff to be

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Speaker 4: lost and stuff to be gained. It would be wonderful

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Speaker 4: if we could come to a place where cultural diversity

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Speaker 4: flourished without you know, you don't need to be homogeneous

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Speaker 4: just to be safe. You know, people can be safe

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Speaker 4: and be themselves and all sorts of wonderful things can flourish.

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Speaker 4: But look, I will always love Sydney. It's a gorgeous,

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Speaker 4: glorious place.

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Speaker 3: And which bit of the country did you grow up in?

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Speaker 3: I grew up in Queensland.

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Speaker 4: Which bit I was born in Brisbane and then I

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Speaker 4: moved to the Gold Coast when I was a kid,

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Speaker 4: So that and that is you know, you may think

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Speaker 4: Sydney is not thriving with culture at the moment the

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Speaker 4: way that it has been in the past, and it

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Speaker 4: might need a regeneration of even more theater. But compared

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Speaker 4: to the Gold Coast where I grew up, you know,

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Speaker 4: we used to go to the Brisbane that was the

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Speaker 4: big city. And it was actually Brisbane's flourishing now, but

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Speaker 4: it used to be the big city and it was

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Speaker 4: so exciting to get to go to Brisbane and go

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Speaker 4: to the show.

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Speaker 1: I grew up in Brisbane, did you, I sure did.

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Speaker 1: Which bit of the Goldie did you grow up?

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Speaker 3: I grew up in Palm Beach.

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Speaker 1: Crumbn are okay then, so not quite the super loose,

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Speaker 1: scary kind of coolly tweed stuff, but still, you know,

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Speaker 1: Crumbins Crum's a lovely place.

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Speaker 4: When I was growing up, it was a very beachy,

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Speaker 4: you know, it's I mean, it's crumb It's still lovely.

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Speaker 4: But what I do feel about the Gold Coast now

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Speaker 4: is when I go back, you know, in Back to

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Speaker 4: the Future too, when Martin McFly goes back to good

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Speaker 4: old nineteen eighty five and Biff Tannon's taken over the town.

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Speaker 4: So it was this sort of quite sweet family place,

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Speaker 4: and now it's all strip malls and strip clubs. That's

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Speaker 4: how I feel when I go back to the Gold Coast,

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Speaker 4: I'm like, oh, Biff Tannon took over the town. It's unrecognizable.

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Speaker 4: It's a concrete jungle. There's no memories there because I

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Speaker 4: don't you know, little suburban streets and stuff. But you

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Speaker 4: go up to Broadbeach, you know, I used to work

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Speaker 4: at the Pacific Fair. Oh wow, as a kind of

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Speaker 4: Saturday job. I recognize it. I can't like take anyone

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Speaker 4: back and go this is where I used to work.

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Speaker 4: It's just like completely reshaped and remodeled.

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Speaker 1: It's huge.

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Speaker 4: Everything's casinos, it's so dense and concrete.

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Speaker 1: Now. Queensland in the eighties and nineties, which kind of

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Speaker 1: time you're referring to, It was a time on a

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Speaker 1: bil copeisent. It was a very very very different time,

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Speaker 1: very different time. People don't quite get it.

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Speaker 3: No, b Co Peter sent was.

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Speaker 4: It was always said that he kept Australia, he kept

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Speaker 4: Queensland twenty years behind the rest of Australia.

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Speaker 1: He absolutely did.

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Speaker 4: I mean it was when I was at school. People

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Speaker 4: probably some of the listeners will find this extraordinary. But

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Speaker 4: it was illegal to be gay.

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Speaker 3: It was a legal abortions were legal. What else was illegal?

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Speaker 3: Lots of lots.

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Speaker 1: Three people walking down the street was a march, and no, yes,

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Speaker 1: three people walking down the street was a march, and

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Speaker 1: it was completely fine for the cops to come and

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Speaker 1: quite physically bust that up, which they did. I don't

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Speaker 1: remember that, Yeah, but they would put cops from Roma

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Speaker 1: on busses and bring them in to break up the

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Speaker 1: UQ protesters. And then when the protesters the watch has going,

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Speaker 1: I got punched in the nose and broke my face

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Speaker 1: by a cop like a point out which one he

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Speaker 1: was already on a bus, passed the woman on the

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Speaker 1: way back out.

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Speaker 3: Again.

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Speaker 1: It's a bad time. It's very different now. A lot

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Speaker 1: of people don't quite get that, but I'm sure, like,

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Speaker 1: where did you When did you first kind of realize

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Speaker 1: that this idea of what it is to be a

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Speaker 1: woman in our community which was shaped by that, When

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Speaker 1: did you realize that that might not Maybe this isn't it.

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Speaker 3: I kind of think I always felt that it was.

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Speaker 3: It's not.

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Speaker 4: The thing is it's not easier to be a man.

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Speaker 4: I think that's wrong. It's not easier to be a man.

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Speaker 4: There's so many impositions of gender on men as well.

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Speaker 4: And there are many, many, many, many many men around

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Speaker 4: the world and here in Australia and here in Sydney

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Speaker 4: that do not have access to things I do as

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Speaker 4: a middle class white woman. So that's my starting place.

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Speaker 4: I think the idea that it's just gender lines.

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Speaker 3: Men have women have, men are women are.

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Speaker 4: Is so wrong and I think it polarizes us and

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Speaker 4: it makes men defensive, and it's anything that's an easy answer,

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Speaker 4: like gender lines. It's just the world is too comp catered.

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Speaker 4: There's how many people, now, eight billion.

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Speaker 1: Baris I want something that I can see in an

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Speaker 1: eight second long TikTok. Yeah, don't make me feel right, exactly.

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Speaker 4: Right, And I just feel like it's just not it

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Speaker 4: isn't that there are all sorts of men. As I said,

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Speaker 4: you know, there's indigenous men in this country. I could

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Speaker 4: walk down the street with a pockets full of drugs

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Speaker 4: and I would never be stopped because I think white

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Speaker 4: women are the least criminalized people in the world. Now,

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Speaker 4: that's not to say a working class white woman who

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Speaker 4: is from a really difficult you know, is a really

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Speaker 4: lost and forgotten neighborhood and community will not be locked

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Speaker 4: up in.

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Speaker 3: A way that I never would. You know, I could

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Speaker 3: always talk my way out of it. I won't be

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Speaker 3: stopped and searched.

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Speaker 4: If I did, I could cry and say, oh my god,

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Speaker 4: this is someone else's coach. I didn't know I had it.

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Speaker 4: I didn't know what it was, and I'd probably be

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Speaker 4: let off. You know, that's the truth.

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Speaker 3: Even at an airport.

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Speaker 4: I mean, there are some countries that wouldn't be true

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Speaker 4: for but a lot of times I could probably go, oh,

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Speaker 4: I don't know what this is, and I'd probably be

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Speaker 4: let off. If it did go to court, I would

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Speaker 4: have access to lawyers, and you know, I have connections.

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Speaker 4: Someone would do it for me pro bono if I

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Speaker 4: couldn't afford it, because being middle class isn't all about money.

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Speaker 4: It's about connections. And listen, I wasn't my parents weren't

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Speaker 4: wealthy or you know, fancy when I was growing up,

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Speaker 4: But we had books in the house and I had

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Speaker 4: access to ideas. And therefore, then when you're older, you

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Speaker 4: can always.

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Speaker 3: Figure it out and get.

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Speaker 4: On a train and going somewhere, and then it's about

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Speaker 4: connections and who will fight for you. So I feel like,

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Speaker 4: especially white women whoever any access to connections, we can

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Speaker 4: always kind of, you know, get through on a presumption

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Speaker 4: of innocence. And that is not true of black women,

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Speaker 4: it's not true of brown women, it's not even true

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Speaker 4: of white men. So I just first want to acknowledge

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Speaker 4: that that there are all sorts of access points.

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Speaker 3: And I don't really like.

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Speaker 4: Talking about privilege anymore. I think privilege gets people's backs

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Speaker 4: up immediately. They just go, I haven't got privileges, are

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Speaker 4: you know? They just go, But I didn't. I had

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Speaker 4: to work for this. And privilege is a wood that

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Speaker 4: just it puts people's guard up at exactly the moment

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Speaker 4: when I want them to put it down. So I

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Speaker 4: talk about access because often we don't notice what we've

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Speaker 4: got access to. We only really notice the doors that

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Speaker 4: are closed to us, not the ones that open. The

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Speaker 4: doors that open look like corridors just don't see it.

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Speaker 4: We just don't see that I'm walking down the corridor

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Speaker 4: and it might be hard, I might be having to

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Speaker 4: go upstairs. I might be, oh my god, I've got

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Speaker 4: to get around these obstacles. God, how much further is this?

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Speaker 4: That's how it feels, you know, going through your life,

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Speaker 4: your career, trying to get to the next step. Cost

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Speaker 4: of living. You know, it feels like constantly going upstairs.

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Speaker 4: Are Now there's some broken glass. I have to get

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Speaker 4: around that. I've got myself. That's how it feels. But

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Speaker 4: what I'm not noticing is that the person behind me

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Speaker 4: can't get through because there's a bouncer that physically shuts

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Speaker 4: the door in their face. I didn't even see that

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Speaker 4: door because the bouncer saw me coming miles away and

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Speaker 4: opened the door for me. All I saw was steps,

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Speaker 4: hard steps. Ah, Now there's a tiny corridor. Now I

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Speaker 4: can't get through.

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Speaker 3: This going around a corner. Now, this is really hard.

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Speaker 3: That's what I saw.

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Speaker 1: The top of you, like I work, one nut's off

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Speaker 1: to get.

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Speaker 4: You exactly lock at you, and you don't see that

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Speaker 4: a bounce has been closing the door for people behind

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Speaker 4: you and going, well, why do you deserve to get

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Speaker 4: through to the next level? Whereas my whiteness, for example,

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Speaker 4: just the assumption is I'm probably entitled to be in

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Speaker 4: the next room, the next part of the corridor. I

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Speaker 4: you know, know, through certainly doing the Guilty Feminist podcast

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Speaker 4: and you know, developing many more close friendships with black

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Speaker 4: and brown women that things like being followed around a shop,

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Speaker 4: being suspected as a shoplifter, or you know.

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Speaker 3: We went into a fancy hotel.

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Speaker 4: I can't remember why now, but we needed somewhere to

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Speaker 4: wait and prepare something. And I think it was prepare something,

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Speaker 4: and we didn't have anywhere to be. I can't remember

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Speaker 4: what was must have been. We must have been at

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Speaker 4: an event or something and we had.

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Speaker 3: Nowhere to go.

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Speaker 4: So we just went into this fancy hotel and I

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Speaker 4: just said, oh, there's a actually it's a conference room

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Speaker 4: in here. No one's using, you know, go in here

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Speaker 4: until someone asks us to leave, And nobody ever didn't,

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Speaker 4: And like staff walked past and they looked at us,

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Speaker 4: and I was.

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Speaker 3: Like, I just know that.

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Speaker 4: And in fact, fact, I think we met up with

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Speaker 4: some friends who were brown women who laughed and went,

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Speaker 4: oh my god. We would be followed in and then

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Speaker 4: they would be like, what are you doing in here?

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Speaker 4: You shouldn't be in here. We would be asked to leave.

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Speaker 4: So many people saw us and just and this is

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Speaker 4: white stuff, brown stuff. Black staff just looked at us

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Speaker 4: and went, they must be important, they must be meant

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Speaker 4: to be in there. And it's the meant to be

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Speaker 4: in there. You know, there's all sorts of reasons. Now,

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Speaker 4: if I turned up to a very fancy five star hotel,

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Speaker 4: I've always if I want to use the loop, if

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Speaker 4: I walk up those in London especially, you get these

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Speaker 4: you know, fancily dressed in you know, come kind of uniform,

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Speaker 4: maybe a top hat, and they're they're there at the

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Speaker 4: door to open the door for you. As you approach, well,

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Speaker 4: they're there for you and me, they go, sir, thank

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Speaker 4: you very much, ma'am, yes, come in. But why are

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Speaker 4: they there because we could all open the door ourselves,

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Speaker 4: could have a revolving door.

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Speaker 3: They're not there's there to open the door for you.

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Speaker 3: They're there to keep other people out.

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Speaker 1: Are you gets to the hotel sir?

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Speaker 3: Exactly?

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Speaker 4: Now, if I turned up in a dirty with a

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Speaker 4: dirty big backpack, and you know, I look scruffy, chances

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Speaker 4: are they'd say.

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Speaker 3: Are you staying here, sir or ma'am or you know whatever.

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Speaker 4: They would probably say that and I'd have to go,

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Speaker 4: you know, And if I said, actually, I just want

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Speaker 4: to use the loot, they'd say, oh, there's a McDonalds

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Speaker 4: around the corner.

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Speaker 3: They wouldn't let me in.

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Speaker 4: But the thing about going up to the five star hotel,

380
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Speaker 4: if I'm in a scruffe clothes and a backpack, I

381
00:18:33,320 --> 00:18:35,640
Speaker 4: will be questioned because they'd be like, m, you look

382
00:18:35,720 --> 00:18:38,399
Speaker 4: like you're from here, But that's a costume, and I

383
00:18:38,400 --> 00:18:41,240
Speaker 4: can change that costume and give myself access with a

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Speaker 4: different costume. And then you learn as a white person

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Speaker 4: what costume for what place will allow you in. But

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Speaker 4: you know what, the color of your skin is not

387
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Speaker 4: a costume, and so it's an exhausting constant for many

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Speaker 4: people that they feel like that, you know, you're making

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Speaker 4: an assumption about me every time, and it's it's exhausting

390
00:19:01,240 --> 00:19:03,720
Speaker 4: friends of mine who are black and brown. You know,

391
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Speaker 4: traveling first class on a train in in the UK.

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Speaker 3: You know you can go first class or you can

393
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Speaker 3: go standard class.

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Speaker 4: And if you want to work, or you know you

395
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Speaker 4: want you just need a bit of peace and quiet,

396
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Speaker 4: you want slightly nicer, journey free sandwiches, you go and

397
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Speaker 4: pay for first class, and a number of times, not

398
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Speaker 4: just like conductors, other passengers will just go, excuse me,

399
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Speaker 4: this is first class, Like why.

400
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Speaker 3: Would you be We don't live in a segregate country.

401
00:19:27,400 --> 00:19:28,320
Speaker 3: What the fuck are you talking?

402
00:19:28,320 --> 00:19:31,800
Speaker 4: About but it's a projection and assumption. And that same

403
00:19:32,040 --> 00:19:35,880
Speaker 4: imposition can be made with womanhood in a different way.

404
00:19:36,119 --> 00:19:38,359
Speaker 4: And then of course the intersection of Black womanhood or

405
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Speaker 4: Indigenous womanhood, or disability in womanhood or butchherness and womanhood.

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Speaker 3: There's so many different ways.

407
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Speaker 4: In which stuff will be projected upon you, and stuff's

408
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Speaker 4: projected on men. Are you masculine enough?

409
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Speaker 3: Are you?

410
00:19:53,240 --> 00:19:55,359
Speaker 4: Are you Dare you show an emotion other than anger?

411
00:19:55,400 --> 00:19:57,680
Speaker 4: The only accept on emotional emotion for men, And that's

412
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Speaker 4: not really emotion, that's that's the way it does. And

413
00:20:00,160 --> 00:20:04,440
Speaker 4: suffer fools, you know. And then there's this imposition of

414
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Speaker 4: women and children. First, the truth of the matter is,

415
00:20:07,280 --> 00:20:09,639
Speaker 4: if we were both some disaster happen and we were

416
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Speaker 4: both in a dinghy.

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Speaker 3: You'd be expected to get out. Why it's not clear.

418
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Speaker 3: I don't know. You've got a small child.

419
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Speaker 4: I don't probably best if I get out, But if

420
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Speaker 4: I volunteer to get out, And if I'm in there

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Speaker 4: with an eighteen year old kid who's a man technically

422
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Speaker 4: and he's got his whole life ahead of him, I'm

423
00:20:26,960 --> 00:20:29,679
Speaker 4: still expected to stay in. The power structures tell us

424
00:20:29,680 --> 00:20:30,960
Speaker 4: he has to get out. So I would have to

425
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Speaker 4: say no, I'll get out, you stay in, and then

426
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Speaker 4: everyone would.

427
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Speaker 3: Think I as a hero. The assumption is that seat

428
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Speaker 3: is mine. That's the assumption.

429
00:20:41,560 --> 00:20:45,480
Speaker 4: That's the that's the assumption of the water. Women and

430
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Speaker 4: children first. Why it's just a structure we've decided on

431
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Speaker 4: for many years that women are somehow to be protected.

432
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Speaker 3: Children.

433
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Speaker 4: We understand children. We all understand that's the next generation.

434
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Speaker 4: A child's going to be very frightened. We you know,

435
00:20:58,680 --> 00:20:59,960
Speaker 4: had grown up dies before a child.

436
00:21:00,840 --> 00:21:01,320
Speaker 3: We get that.

437
00:21:02,080 --> 00:21:03,800
Speaker 4: Why does that eighteen year old guy I have to

438
00:21:03,800 --> 00:21:05,280
Speaker 4: get out? Why do you have to get out before me?

439
00:21:05,320 --> 00:21:08,240
Speaker 4: Why is that not a negotiation. It's hard to get

440
00:21:08,280 --> 00:21:09,600
Speaker 4: out of a boat of privilege.

441
00:21:10,359 --> 00:21:12,600
Speaker 3: It's hard. If it's I hope I would do that.

442
00:21:12,640 --> 00:21:14,040
Speaker 3: But if it was three o'clock.

443
00:21:13,760 --> 00:21:15,159
Speaker 4: In the morning and I thought there were sharks in

444
00:21:15,160 --> 00:21:17,920
Speaker 4: the water, would I give up my seat of privilege

445
00:21:18,280 --> 00:21:20,399
Speaker 4: if it was assumed he should get out, I hope so.

446
00:21:21,520 --> 00:21:23,520
Speaker 4: But you know, I then want people to say she

447
00:21:23,640 --> 00:21:27,399
Speaker 4: died as she lived of feminism. I'd want people to

448
00:21:27,440 --> 00:21:29,360
Speaker 4: say that, you know, like, why why would I want

449
00:21:29,359 --> 00:21:32,399
Speaker 4: people to say that, Well, I've given something up? But

450
00:21:32,520 --> 00:21:35,040
Speaker 4: have I given up something that I should have had. No,

451
00:21:35,200 --> 00:21:37,280
Speaker 4: I've just given up something the world told me I

452
00:21:37,359 --> 00:21:40,040
Speaker 4: was entitled to. And it's hard for men to get

453
00:21:40,040 --> 00:21:42,360
Speaker 4: out of a boat of privilege. If there's twelve men

454
00:21:42,400 --> 00:21:44,760
Speaker 4: on the board of a company and no women, someone's

455
00:21:44,800 --> 00:21:47,080
Speaker 4: going to have to say, look, there's only twelve board members.

456
00:21:47,160 --> 00:21:48,800
Speaker 3: I'm going to give up my seat.

457
00:21:48,960 --> 00:21:51,199
Speaker 4: I'm going to get out of the access seat and

458
00:21:51,240 --> 00:21:54,320
Speaker 4: give access to somebody else who for some reason doesn't

459
00:21:54,320 --> 00:21:56,320
Speaker 4: have it. Because the world decided that was the right

460
00:21:56,359 --> 00:21:59,560
Speaker 4: thing generation to go, and now we're stuck with that legacy.

461
00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:03,360
Speaker 4: If would six men go, they should look, half our

462
00:22:03,359 --> 00:22:06,840
Speaker 4: customers are women or more. Six board members at least

463
00:22:06,880 --> 00:22:09,359
Speaker 4: should be women, Which six of us are going to

464
00:22:09,640 --> 00:22:10,400
Speaker 4: get up and go?

465
00:22:11,160 --> 00:22:12,560
Speaker 3: Six people should do that.

466
00:22:12,480 --> 00:22:16,560
Speaker 1: Fire Challenge Survivor draw straws. I think that's they're not

467
00:22:16,640 --> 00:22:18,239
Speaker 1: They're not going to. I'm going to watch the fight.

468
00:22:18,320 --> 00:22:20,320
Speaker 1: I would watch them draw rocks like that on Survivor

469
00:22:20,440 --> 00:22:21,280
Speaker 1: or a fire Challenge.

470
00:22:21,359 --> 00:22:23,920
Speaker 4: I think, listen, you're I know you're a TV format creator,

471
00:22:23,960 --> 00:22:25,720
Speaker 4: so I understand you would be able to think of

472
00:22:26,440 --> 00:22:28,600
Speaker 4: you should do a format where just you go into

473
00:22:28,640 --> 00:22:33,240
Speaker 4: existing boards that have terrible gender and race imbalances, and

474
00:22:33,320 --> 00:22:35,080
Speaker 4: just go, Okay, this is this is your this is

475
00:22:35,119 --> 00:22:35,880
Speaker 4: your customer base.

476
00:22:36,080 --> 00:22:39,080
Speaker 3: This board should reflect that. We've looked into it.

477
00:22:39,119 --> 00:22:40,760
Speaker 4: So we're gonna we're going to do a We're going

478
00:22:40,840 --> 00:22:43,159
Speaker 4: to do a series of survivor like tasks and we

479
00:22:43,240 --> 00:22:45,040
Speaker 4: find out who's left the AGM.

480
00:22:45,640 --> 00:22:47,240
Speaker 1: That's where we're going to do it, in a sad

481
00:22:47,320 --> 00:22:51,200
Speaker 1: board room of some suburban hotel chain. Absolutely in front

482
00:22:51,200 --> 00:22:51,800
Speaker 1: of everybody.

483
00:22:51,960 --> 00:22:55,440
Speaker 4: Absolutely absolutely, if twenty percent of your customers are gay

484
00:22:55,920 --> 00:22:58,040
Speaker 4: and none of your board members are right, we're going

485
00:22:58,119 --> 00:22:59,040
Speaker 4: to have to figure this out.

486
00:22:59,359 --> 00:23:00,720
Speaker 3: And I listen.

487
00:23:00,800 --> 00:23:02,600
Speaker 4: I don't know what the answer is, but I do

488
00:23:02,760 --> 00:23:05,600
Speaker 4: know that it's very difficult for individuals to stand up

489
00:23:05,640 --> 00:23:11,440
Speaker 4: and say I will leave, because that's a fairer, more

490
00:23:11,480 --> 00:23:14,679
Speaker 4: representative thing to do, because other people have been wrongly

491
00:23:14,760 --> 00:23:18,040
Speaker 4: kept out for generations. And I remember someone telling me

492
00:23:18,119 --> 00:23:20,840
Speaker 4: she host, she's a headhunter, and there was a big,

493
00:23:20,840 --> 00:23:24,199
Speaker 4: fancy department store in London and they said something like

494
00:23:24,240 --> 00:23:26,480
Speaker 4: eighty to ninety percent of their customer base was female,

495
00:23:26,520 --> 00:23:28,359
Speaker 4: and there wasn't one woman on the board, and they

496
00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:30,000
Speaker 4: said to her, we don't think any women are going

497
00:23:30,040 --> 00:23:32,199
Speaker 4: to want to do it. Once someone's died or something,

498
00:23:32,560 --> 00:23:34,280
Speaker 4: and so there's now a space. We think it should

499
00:23:34,280 --> 00:23:35,800
Speaker 4: be a woman, but would any women want to do it?

500
00:23:35,840 --> 00:23:37,080
Speaker 4: And she was like, what are you talking about? Of

501
00:23:37,080 --> 00:23:38,960
Speaker 4: course women want to be on the board of the

502
00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:42,040
Speaker 4: loveliest department store in London and she immediately had a

503
00:23:42,040 --> 00:23:46,040
Speaker 4: million brilliant candidates. And you just go, they just made

504
00:23:46,040 --> 00:23:48,240
Speaker 4: an assumption, or they won't be qualified, they won't want

505
00:23:48,240 --> 00:23:48,680
Speaker 4: to do it.

506
00:23:48,760 --> 00:23:51,119
Speaker 3: And it's so I do think.

507
00:23:52,640 --> 00:23:56,000
Speaker 4: Put a zooming back helps everybody zooming back and going

508
00:23:57,080 --> 00:23:59,280
Speaker 4: I'm My big thing at the moment is question all assumptions.

509
00:24:00,160 --> 00:24:03,040
Speaker 1: I had a meeting earlier today at the university with

510
00:24:03,080 --> 00:24:05,199
Speaker 1: someone who works in the renewable space and we were

511
00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:09,440
Speaker 1: talking about how ideology aside. It's the price point which

512
00:24:09,480 --> 00:24:12,880
Speaker 1: changes people's minds. Okay, so out in Blacktown and Western Sydney,

513
00:24:13,119 --> 00:24:15,800
Speaker 1: three out of five houses of solar panels, not because

514
00:24:15,840 --> 00:24:18,560
Speaker 1: they love trees. It's because it's cheaper, all right. So

515
00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:21,960
Speaker 1: there's this price point that the money seems to be

516
00:24:22,040 --> 00:24:24,360
Speaker 1: the thing that will get a coalition person and a

517
00:24:24,400 --> 00:24:27,000
Speaker 1: non coalition person to go, Okay, that is a good idea,

518
00:24:27,160 --> 00:24:30,840
Speaker 1: all right, because it's cheaper. So I wonder like diversity

519
00:24:30,840 --> 00:24:32,320
Speaker 1: for me, and I've kind of been thinking about this

520
00:24:32,359 --> 00:24:34,600
Speaker 1: a lot. I put this show together last year, and

521
00:24:34,760 --> 00:24:38,160
Speaker 1: it was very important for me that I had diversity

522
00:24:38,160 --> 00:24:45,199
Speaker 1: of ideas, and diversity of ideas meant then that I

523
00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:48,520
Speaker 1: would get people from different backgrounds and different life experiences

524
00:24:48,520 --> 00:24:51,520
Speaker 1: to me, because the ideas were the thing that was

525
00:24:51,560 --> 00:24:54,239
Speaker 1: the most valuable. And it turned out that it was

526
00:24:55,080 --> 00:24:56,639
Speaker 1: if I had a writer's room full of dudes that

527
00:24:56,680 --> 00:24:58,600
Speaker 1: look like me, then I only get jokes that someone

528
00:24:58,640 --> 00:25:01,200
Speaker 1: like me would write. Nobody looked like me on the

529
00:25:01,240 --> 00:25:04,280
Speaker 1: writer's room, and it was great because I don't want

530
00:25:04,280 --> 00:25:06,160
Speaker 1: to miss jokes. I don't see, but I only see

531
00:25:06,160 --> 00:25:08,159
Speaker 1: the world through the lens that I have. And I

532
00:25:08,200 --> 00:25:09,800
Speaker 1: wonder if you would go to these companies and go,

533
00:25:10,400 --> 00:25:13,440
Speaker 1: do you have any idea how much scope for growth

534
00:25:13,480 --> 00:25:15,800
Speaker 1: there is with different ideas in this room from people

535
00:25:15,840 --> 00:25:18,080
Speaker 1: who have grown up in completely different backgrounds, who have

536
00:25:18,440 --> 00:25:21,480
Speaker 1: way more innovation and stuff like that at their hands.

537
00:25:22,320 --> 00:25:25,000
Speaker 3: Okay, I'm gonna I'm going to yes, and this idea

538
00:25:25,400 --> 00:25:26,480
Speaker 3: with us.

539
00:25:26,520 --> 00:25:30,800
Speaker 4: We're so improv right, So improv with a surprise with

540
00:25:30,840 --> 00:25:34,760
Speaker 4: a surprising twist, all right. So I was working with

541
00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:36,720
Speaker 4: a very very very big tech company.

542
00:25:37,440 --> 00:25:41,680
Speaker 1: This is in your improv team kind of more like education.

543
00:25:41,560 --> 00:25:46,960
Speaker 4: Times, yeah, corporate seminars and and yeah, it's an amazing

544
00:25:46,960 --> 00:25:48,879
Speaker 4: thing though, because you learned so much about how the

545
00:25:48,880 --> 00:25:51,440
Speaker 4: world works, and you know, you're trying to make places

546
00:25:51,480 --> 00:25:54,200
Speaker 4: more diverse and more fair and you know that kind

547
00:25:54,240 --> 00:25:58,800
Speaker 4: of thing. But what we discovered is this is really interesting.

548
00:25:59,160 --> 00:26:00,760
Speaker 4: I mean, actually you should be the judge of that,

549
00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:04,240
Speaker 4: but I think it's really interesting. So it was a

550
00:26:04,240 --> 00:26:06,960
Speaker 4: place where they have what we call programmers, what they

551
00:26:06,960 --> 00:26:11,080
Speaker 4: call programmers, and it's like Bruise program and Silicon Valley.

552
00:26:11,280 --> 00:26:14,000
Speaker 4: They all went to the same universities. They all hang out,

553
00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:15,520
Speaker 4: they wear the same kind of jerseys, they do the

554
00:26:15,520 --> 00:26:16,600
Speaker 4: same kind of sports teams.

555
00:26:16,600 --> 00:26:18,040
Speaker 3: At lunchtime, they play foosball.

556
00:26:18,080 --> 00:26:20,720
Speaker 4: You know those companies where it's all taka trucks and

557
00:26:20,760 --> 00:26:21,640
Speaker 4: foosball inside.

558
00:26:21,680 --> 00:26:23,040
Speaker 1: Ideology ends up in the code.

559
00:26:23,080 --> 00:26:27,040
Speaker 3: It's fucking weird, right, Okay, Now here's the interesting thing.

560
00:26:27,960 --> 00:26:31,120
Speaker 3: They were figuring out.

561
00:26:31,800 --> 00:26:36,119
Speaker 4: How to go to the next level with something, and

562
00:26:36,160 --> 00:26:37,760
Speaker 4: everyone wanted to be was going to be a much

563
00:26:37,800 --> 00:26:40,080
Speaker 4: smaller team. So everyone's working on this project and now

564
00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:41,679
Speaker 4: the next stage of the project we're only going to

565
00:26:41,680 --> 00:26:44,440
Speaker 4: have six special people working on it, so everyone wants

566
00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:47,560
Speaker 4: to be on it. And there's twelve programmers who all

567
00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:49,760
Speaker 4: wear the same stuff and watch the same sport and

568
00:26:49,840 --> 00:26:52,360
Speaker 4: drink beers after work and you know, blah blah blah,

569
00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:54,879
Speaker 4: play the same video games. And there's one Indian woman

570
00:26:54,920 --> 00:26:58,760
Speaker 4: who works who moved from India to work for this

571
00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:02,200
Speaker 4: big tech giant, and she's got kids and none of

572
00:27:02,240 --> 00:27:04,199
Speaker 4: these guys have got kids, and she doesn't drink, and

573
00:27:04,240 --> 00:27:05,359
Speaker 4: they all drink, and so on and so on and

574
00:27:05,480 --> 00:27:08,440
Speaker 4: so on. So she's the odd one out in this team.

575
00:27:08,840 --> 00:27:12,480
Speaker 3: So when everyone who.

576
00:27:12,440 --> 00:27:14,439
Speaker 4: Wants to be on this project puts their name in

577
00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:19,639
Speaker 4: the hat, what do the programmers have to advertise to

578
00:27:19,800 --> 00:27:23,760
Speaker 4: show why they're special and they should be in the

579
00:27:23,800 --> 00:27:27,440
Speaker 4: next room. They have to advertise how they're different from

580
00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:29,359
Speaker 4: the other programmers, right, because if I'm just one of

581
00:27:29,359 --> 00:27:31,320
Speaker 4: the guys, why why are you gonna choose me and

582
00:27:31,400 --> 00:27:31,840
Speaker 4: not Todd?

583
00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:32,200
Speaker 3: Right?

584
00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:34,479
Speaker 4: So they're all like, yeah, yeah, yeah, but I've got

585
00:27:34,560 --> 00:27:36,880
Speaker 4: the relationships, so yeah, yeah, but I wrote initial piece

586
00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:40,720
Speaker 4: of code. So they start advertising how they are different.

587
00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:44,480
Speaker 4: But what is the one Indian woman who they don't

588
00:27:44,520 --> 00:27:46,080
Speaker 4: ask for drink. They don't say, or would you want

589
00:27:46,119 --> 00:27:47,360
Speaker 4: to come and have lunch with us? They don't say,

590
00:27:47,359 --> 00:27:48,600
Speaker 4: do you want to come and play this video game?

591
00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:51,400
Speaker 4: What does she start advertising? In order to get into

592
00:27:51,480 --> 00:27:55,080
Speaker 4: that next level? She starts advertising how she's the same,

593
00:27:55,160 --> 00:27:57,359
Speaker 4: how she fits in, and how she's, oh mean, just

594
00:27:57,400 --> 00:27:59,200
Speaker 4: one of the guys, you know, like how she has

595
00:27:59,240 --> 00:28:03,200
Speaker 4: to show how she's the same. They have to show

596
00:28:03,280 --> 00:28:06,880
Speaker 4: how they are different in order that she doesn't get

597
00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:08,879
Speaker 4: left out for social reasons or because they go, we

598
00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:10,600
Speaker 4: don't really get her, or she doesn't really hang out

599
00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:14,760
Speaker 4: with us all so often, what I discovered at this

600
00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:18,560
Speaker 4: company just by observing and asking questions was they were

601
00:28:18,600 --> 00:28:21,720
Speaker 4: getting their most diverse ideas from their most homodulized staff,

602
00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:24,000
Speaker 4: and their most diverse staff were trying to fit in

603
00:28:24,040 --> 00:28:25,080
Speaker 4: and go, yeah, I'm just like you guys.

604
00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:27,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, I just what. I just listen to R and B.

605
00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:29,680
Speaker 4: Like you guys, Like I'm I'm just like one of you,

606
00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:33,280
Speaker 4: because otherwise I'm the different one. Again, I'm the one

607
00:28:33,320 --> 00:28:35,040
Speaker 4: with a different accent and the one with a different

608
00:28:35,080 --> 00:28:37,520
Speaker 4: life experience. I'm the one with a different different, you know,

609
00:28:37,680 --> 00:28:41,440
Speaker 4: ability to stay out till midnight drinking now what happened

610
00:28:41,600 --> 00:28:47,480
Speaker 4: was it turned out that this woman had a brilliant

611
00:28:47,960 --> 00:28:51,120
Speaker 4: piece of the puzzle. Because in India, you know a

612
00:28:51,160 --> 00:28:53,120
Speaker 4: lot of parts of India at that point, I don't

613
00:28:53,160 --> 00:28:55,840
Speaker 4: know now, I didn't have the Internet. There were all

614
00:28:55,840 --> 00:28:58,960
Speaker 4: sorts of different ways that things were restricted. She had

615
00:28:59,080 --> 00:29:03,720
Speaker 4: the biggest piece of the puzzle and didn't want to

616
00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:07,000
Speaker 4: say it because yet again I'm the different one. Oh god, oh,

617
00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:09,480
Speaker 4: in India, we used to do it like this. Didn't

618
00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:11,680
Speaker 4: want to give her ideas because she wanted to fit

619
00:29:11,760 --> 00:29:16,120
Speaker 4: in and and belong. And so we had to work

620
00:29:16,280 --> 00:29:21,640
Speaker 4: very hard to create an environment in which the staff

621
00:29:21,680 --> 00:29:25,959
Speaker 4: who were most different from the dominant group felt safe

622
00:29:26,400 --> 00:29:29,720
Speaker 4: to say what they knew. It is not enough to

623
00:29:30,080 --> 00:29:34,360
Speaker 4: hire diversely. You have to create an environment where people

624
00:29:34,400 --> 00:29:37,160
Speaker 4: feel like they belong enough that they can be just

625
00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:39,120
Speaker 4: like putting ideas out there. And I see this in

626
00:29:39,160 --> 00:29:40,720
Speaker 4: writers rooms because I do. I do a lot of

627
00:29:40,760 --> 00:29:44,880
Speaker 4: screenwriting and television writing. Anyone who feels super safe is

628
00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:46,360
Speaker 4: just like, guys, I'm just going to throw out a

629
00:29:46,360 --> 00:29:48,320
Speaker 4: really crazy idea here. This is a wild idea. It's

630
00:29:48,360 --> 00:29:49,440
Speaker 4: not going to work, but I'm just going to throw

631
00:29:49,480 --> 00:29:51,960
Speaker 4: it out and they're throwing out crazy ideas that would

632
00:29:52,040 --> 00:29:52,480
Speaker 4: never work.

633
00:29:52,480 --> 00:29:53,920
Speaker 3: Now, occasionally what happens.

634
00:29:54,080 --> 00:29:56,040
Speaker 4: I love people who throw out wild ideas that will

635
00:29:56,080 --> 00:29:59,080
Speaker 4: never work, do you know why? Certainly as somebody who

636
00:29:59,440 --> 00:30:02,400
Speaker 4: is if I'm running the show, if I'm in charge

637
00:30:02,400 --> 00:30:06,480
Speaker 4: of the room, I go, okay, I love that idea

638
00:30:06,520 --> 00:30:09,840
Speaker 4: so much. And sometimes other people go, yeah, but it's implausible.

639
00:30:09,840 --> 00:30:12,560
Speaker 4: I'm okay, how could we make it plausible? What would

640
00:30:12,640 --> 00:30:15,959
Speaker 4: have to change about this story so this could happen

641
00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:20,120
Speaker 4: and the audience wouldn't go that's just weird. And then

642
00:30:20,160 --> 00:30:22,920
Speaker 4: we figure out, hold on, okay, it could work if

643
00:30:23,480 --> 00:30:26,240
Speaker 4: and we start altering things, and then we find oh

644
00:30:26,280 --> 00:30:28,920
Speaker 4: my god, this character is so much more interesting because

645
00:30:28,920 --> 00:30:30,520
Speaker 4: if he's the kind of guy that would do this,

646
00:30:31,080 --> 00:30:32,360
Speaker 4: he's kind of an narcissist.

647
00:30:32,480 --> 00:30:33,800
Speaker 3: And now we're interested.

648
00:30:34,640 --> 00:30:36,600
Speaker 1: So I probably.

649
00:30:36,320 --> 00:30:38,920
Speaker 4: Shouldn't say kind of a narcissist. That's probably therapist listening.

650
00:30:38,960 --> 00:30:43,560
Speaker 4: I apologize, you know what I mean, but not clinically,

651
00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:46,640
Speaker 4: not literally or maybe, but not my place.

652
00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:47,560
Speaker 1: To say not yet diagnosed.

653
00:30:47,640 --> 00:30:50,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, just asterisk askarisk.

654
00:30:49,720 --> 00:30:50,800
Speaker 1: Doesn't think as much of us.

655
00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:51,880
Speaker 3: Don't email and I know.

656
00:30:51,840 --> 00:30:54,640
Speaker 4: What you're saying, and you're right now That's what's interesting

657
00:30:54,680 --> 00:30:59,120
Speaker 4: to me is when people feel brave enough, safe enough,

658
00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:01,760
Speaker 4: not brave enough, safe enough to throw out a wild

659
00:31:01,760 --> 00:31:04,360
Speaker 4: idea and just go, this might not be useful, but

660
00:31:04,360 --> 00:31:06,040
Speaker 4: it's come into my head, so I'm going to throw

661
00:31:06,040 --> 00:31:08,080
Speaker 4: it on the table and not even have to caveat

662
00:31:08,120 --> 00:31:08,720
Speaker 4: it with that, just.

663
00:31:08,720 --> 00:31:12,200
Speaker 3: Go what what if? To create an environment where we go.

664
00:31:12,280 --> 00:31:15,400
Speaker 4: I mean, one thing I love doing in a corporate

665
00:31:15,480 --> 00:31:18,360
Speaker 4: environment with creativity is going, Okay, we're going to start

666
00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:21,640
Speaker 4: with ideas that would never work, terrible ideas. Let's get

667
00:31:21,680 --> 00:31:24,640
Speaker 4: out worst ideas. Okay, ideas that would get us fired,

668
00:31:25,000 --> 00:31:27,600
Speaker 4: Ideas that we could never afford, that no client would

669
00:31:27,600 --> 00:31:30,840
Speaker 4: pay for. And then we go, okay, ideas that we

670
00:31:30,960 --> 00:31:33,880
Speaker 4: think the client would buy. Now, by this point, people

671
00:31:33,920 --> 00:31:36,240
Speaker 4: have had so much fun shouting out wild stuff.

672
00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:38,719
Speaker 3: That they are loose, they are brave.

673
00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:42,360
Speaker 4: They don't mind if the idea is stupid or doesn't

674
00:31:42,440 --> 00:31:45,680
Speaker 4: work or because we've put that environment.

675
00:31:45,720 --> 00:31:46,640
Speaker 3: Now here's the other thing.

676
00:31:46,880 --> 00:31:49,520
Speaker 4: You go back and you look at terrible ideas, ideas

677
00:31:49,560 --> 00:31:51,640
Speaker 4: that would get us fired, ideas that we couldn't afford,

678
00:31:52,120 --> 00:31:55,160
Speaker 4: and you will find gems in there because it's coming

679
00:31:55,240 --> 00:31:56,520
Speaker 4: from a different part of the brain.

680
00:31:56,600 --> 00:31:58,960
Speaker 1: And this is the thing that I think what you're

681
00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:02,920
Speaker 1: getting at is that it all comes down to leadership.

682
00:32:02,920 --> 00:32:05,040
Speaker 1: It comes down to the environment created by the leadership

683
00:32:05,680 --> 00:32:08,120
Speaker 1: of the organization and a structure. I talk about this

684
00:32:08,160 --> 00:32:10,640
Speaker 1: a lot when I'm on stage, Like, you know, I

685
00:32:10,680 --> 00:32:14,520
Speaker 1: went through a lot of crazy, actually crazy stuff. Yet

686
00:32:15,200 --> 00:32:18,600
Speaker 1: because of I know that I'm a high value employee

687
00:32:19,160 --> 00:32:22,040
Speaker 1: and I was able to say, this is what's going on.

688
00:32:22,080 --> 00:32:23,560
Speaker 1: These are the meds I'm on, This are the doctors

689
00:32:23,600 --> 00:32:26,680
Speaker 1: I'm seeing. I'm a lot better now. But they were like, well,

690
00:32:26,720 --> 00:32:29,240
Speaker 1: what do you need from us? And it shouldn't be

691
00:32:29,360 --> 00:32:31,320
Speaker 1: that way that it was just me as a high

692
00:32:31,400 --> 00:32:34,320
Speaker 1: value employee that got that treatment. The reason the only

693
00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:36,479
Speaker 1: if we're asking now, we're asking people to bring their

694
00:32:36,520 --> 00:32:39,960
Speaker 1: whole selves to work, we need to be prepared to

695
00:32:39,960 --> 00:32:42,840
Speaker 1: support that person and their whole self at work, because

696
00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:45,600
Speaker 1: when they are feeling to be their whole self, then indeed,

697
00:32:45,960 --> 00:32:49,400
Speaker 1: your woman that you spoke of earlier, she will come

698
00:32:49,560 --> 00:32:51,640
Speaker 1: to work with this idea that she saw her tenure

699
00:32:51,640 --> 00:32:55,280
Speaker 1: old do that day and go fucking hell, we got

700
00:32:55,280 --> 00:32:57,680
Speaker 1: to get onto this, guys, because she feels safe enough

701
00:32:57,720 --> 00:33:00,000
Speaker 1: to do so, and that Ultimately, that's your bottom line

702
00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:02,760
Speaker 1: that's only going to increase because you have an ideation

703
00:33:02,840 --> 00:33:04,920
Speaker 1: that otherwise people, the bros, aren't going to get for

704
00:33:04,960 --> 00:33:05,680
Speaker 1: another ten years.

705
00:33:05,680 --> 00:33:08,720
Speaker 4: I would say two things to that. One is, every

706
00:33:08,720 --> 00:33:11,440
Speaker 4: employee should a high value employee. If you treat someone

707
00:33:11,480 --> 00:33:14,719
Speaker 4: like their high value, they will bring you high value totally. Two,

708
00:33:15,320 --> 00:33:18,880
Speaker 4: I don't believe anyone really believes we should bring our

709
00:33:18,920 --> 00:33:21,600
Speaker 4: whole self to work. That's not what they mean when

710
00:33:21,640 --> 00:33:23,200
Speaker 4: they say that. They mean a bit more of your

711
00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:25,720
Speaker 4: best self. Obviously, don't bring your high spe don't bring

712
00:33:25,760 --> 00:33:26,680
Speaker 4: your whole self to work.

713
00:33:27,080 --> 00:33:27,880
Speaker 3: Leave the worst.

714
00:33:27,720 --> 00:33:29,640
Speaker 4: Parts of yourself for your family, the people who love

715
00:33:29,680 --> 00:33:32,080
Speaker 4: you the most. If you brought your whole self to work,

716
00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:34,520
Speaker 4: you would just call someone a caunt and be fired,

717
00:33:34,600 --> 00:33:37,920
Speaker 4: Like you can't do it. There's bits of you that

718
00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:40,200
Speaker 4: are not at work for a reason, or not show

719
00:33:40,280 --> 00:33:42,480
Speaker 4: up at work for a reason. What they mean is

720
00:33:42,560 --> 00:33:45,080
Speaker 4: bring a bit more of your best self, and don't

721
00:33:45,240 --> 00:33:49,040
Speaker 4: hide bits of yourself like you know, don't hide pieces

722
00:33:49,040 --> 00:33:52,600
Speaker 4: of your identity. Don't hide that your neurotypical, which can

723
00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:56,720
Speaker 4: be incredibly valuable to a company. Don't hide your sexual orientation,

724
00:33:56,800 --> 00:34:01,200
Speaker 4: which will by necessity inhibit you and make you feel

725
00:34:01,400 --> 00:34:03,800
Speaker 4: less than your than you are. That will create less

726
00:34:03,800 --> 00:34:07,640
Speaker 4: connection with your clients and other staff members. Those things

727
00:34:07,640 --> 00:34:10,560
Speaker 4: are important to bring to work, but your whole self,

728
00:34:11,200 --> 00:34:13,759
Speaker 4: I question it, I think, And I also think we

729
00:34:13,840 --> 00:34:18,160
Speaker 4: have become obsessed with authenticity in the corporates all the time, likethenticity,

730
00:34:18,200 --> 00:34:20,839
Speaker 4: authenticity now listen. Obviously, I believe we should be who

731
00:34:20,840 --> 00:34:22,160
Speaker 4: we are and say what we mean, and you know,

732
00:34:22,200 --> 00:34:25,160
Speaker 4: of course, but I do find the concept of authenticity

733
00:34:25,239 --> 00:34:29,360
Speaker 4: very limiting because if you're authentically crap at something, you

734
00:34:29,560 --> 00:34:32,320
Speaker 4: well as you're stuck with it. I think, to me,

735
00:34:32,960 --> 00:34:36,120
Speaker 4: your authentic self, this is the biggest thing. I think,

736
00:34:36,160 --> 00:34:38,680
Speaker 4: the biggest thing I've ever learned. This is the most

737
00:34:38,719 --> 00:34:42,920
Speaker 4: importanting I've ever learned. Your authentic self is just your

738
00:34:42,960 --> 00:34:46,680
Speaker 4: habitual self. My authentic self likes to eat cake and

739
00:34:46,719 --> 00:34:48,320
Speaker 4: lie down. When I was a kid, that's what I

740
00:34:48,360 --> 00:34:49,759
Speaker 4: wanted to do. My sister wanted to run around the

741
00:34:49,760 --> 00:34:50,920
Speaker 4: garden and play games with me, and I'd be like,

742
00:34:50,960 --> 00:34:53,560
Speaker 4: I'll be reading this book I loved reading, and she

743
00:34:53,600 --> 00:34:56,080
Speaker 4: didn't really like sweet Staff. I would be like, you know,

744
00:34:56,280 --> 00:34:58,040
Speaker 4: spend my pocket money on sweets, and I just wanted

745
00:34:58,080 --> 00:35:02,560
Speaker 4: to do that. My best self likes to eat fruit

746
00:35:02,600 --> 00:35:05,719
Speaker 4: and a yoga, and I find if I just do

747
00:35:05,840 --> 00:35:09,879
Speaker 4: the things that my best self would do for three

748
00:35:09,920 --> 00:35:13,680
Speaker 4: to six months, they become my habitual self.

749
00:35:13,800 --> 00:35:17,200
Speaker 3: It's more authentic for me now to move than it

750
00:35:17,360 --> 00:35:20,160
Speaker 3: is to be sedentary. When I'm sedentary for too long,

751
00:35:20,520 --> 00:35:23,920
Speaker 3: my body demands movement. Do you know why. I've created

752
00:35:23,920 --> 00:35:24,799
Speaker 3: a practice of it.

753
00:35:25,239 --> 00:35:28,279
Speaker 4: So it's more authentic now for me to go to yoga,

754
00:35:28,360 --> 00:35:30,880
Speaker 4: jump on the peloton, have a dance class than it

755
00:35:30,960 --> 00:35:34,319
Speaker 4: is just to lie there. But that is because I

756
00:35:34,360 --> 00:35:38,200
Speaker 4: have changed my habits. All we are is a product

757
00:35:38,239 --> 00:35:39,280
Speaker 4: of what we do every.

758
00:35:39,160 --> 00:35:39,960
Speaker 1: Day, We really are.

759
00:35:40,520 --> 00:35:43,719
Speaker 4: And so your authentic self is your habit yourself. If

760
00:35:43,760 --> 00:35:47,200
Speaker 4: you feel inhibited, if you feel shy, if you feel

761
00:35:47,200 --> 00:35:50,719
Speaker 4: like I could never do a presentation or a good presentation.

762
00:35:50,440 --> 00:35:52,200
Speaker 3: I'm always going to hate that part of my job.

763
00:35:52,960 --> 00:35:56,560
Speaker 4: Take any opportunity to. Just if I ride a horse

764
00:35:56,600 --> 00:35:58,080
Speaker 4: every day for a year, I'm quite scared of horses.

765
00:35:58,080 --> 00:35:59,560
Speaker 4: If I ride a horse every day for a year,

766
00:35:59,560 --> 00:36:01,840
Speaker 4: it'll just be come what I do. So do karaoke

767
00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:06,200
Speaker 4: sober every week for a year, It'll just become what

768
00:36:06,239 --> 00:36:08,759
Speaker 4: you do, You'll never be scared of presenting again. And

769
00:36:08,840 --> 00:36:11,280
Speaker 4: that's the biggest thing that I think I've ever learned.

770
00:36:11,680 --> 00:36:14,879
Speaker 1: I think what you're describing as something that I too

771
00:36:14,960 --> 00:36:17,319
Speaker 1: have found incredibly powerful. It's the idea to act as

772
00:36:17,400 --> 00:36:21,879
Speaker 1: if and the way I would trick myself into it

773
00:36:21,960 --> 00:36:25,759
Speaker 1: is just getting up and telling myself, I'm the kind

774
00:36:25,800 --> 00:36:29,839
Speaker 1: of person that takes a run every day. On my arms,

775
00:36:30,040 --> 00:36:31,239
Speaker 1: I don't want to get up, so I hang on.

776
00:36:31,280 --> 00:36:33,319
Speaker 1: I'm the kind of person that takes a run every

777
00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:37,640
Speaker 1: day and then not long three four weeks or so,

778
00:36:38,280 --> 00:36:40,600
Speaker 1: I'm going only why kind of person takes a run

779
00:36:40,640 --> 00:36:41,040
Speaker 1: every day?

780
00:36:42,040 --> 00:36:44,759
Speaker 4: So much is your identity or identity If you keep

781
00:36:44,760 --> 00:36:46,959
Speaker 4: telling yourself I'm bad at public speaking, or I'm shy,

782
00:36:47,080 --> 00:36:50,799
Speaker 4: or I get stage fright, you've convinced your brain of that.

783
00:36:50,880 --> 00:36:54,279
Speaker 4: Now that may be true. But the chance to get

784
00:36:54,280 --> 00:36:56,759
Speaker 4: to work on yourself is the biggest chance you'll ever

785
00:36:56,800 --> 00:37:00,839
Speaker 4: have in life, I think, and it's the most You

786
00:37:00,880 --> 00:37:03,480
Speaker 4: can't really change the world unless you change yourself. You

787
00:37:03,600 --> 00:37:08,120
Speaker 4: have to look in woods not possible, But then I

788
00:37:08,160 --> 00:37:11,240
Speaker 4: do feel a responsibility to try and have an impact

789
00:37:11,320 --> 00:37:13,520
Speaker 4: on the world, and you know, leave it better than

790
00:37:13,520 --> 00:37:15,840
Speaker 4: when I found it without being hebristic and going ho

791
00:37:16,040 --> 00:37:16,640
Speaker 4: changing the world.

792
00:37:16,680 --> 00:37:21,239
Speaker 3: But you know, sometimes people feel I'm just a drop

793
00:37:21,239 --> 00:37:21,680
Speaker 3: in the ocean.

794
00:37:21,719 --> 00:37:23,320
Speaker 4: What can I do, like with feminism, with trying to

795
00:37:23,360 --> 00:37:24,640
Speaker 4: make the world a better place for women. You know,

796
00:37:24,719 --> 00:37:28,040
Speaker 4: I landed in Australia and they've turned on the news

797
00:37:28,120 --> 00:37:30,160
Speaker 4: and it was women out in the street protesting that

798
00:37:30,200 --> 00:37:32,839
Speaker 4: a woman is killed by her intimate partner every four

799
00:37:32,920 --> 00:37:34,919
Speaker 4: days in this country. And that is for the pop

800
00:37:34,960 --> 00:37:37,000
Speaker 4: size of the population. It's also true in the UK

801
00:37:38,360 --> 00:37:40,280
Speaker 4: we have three times the size of the population.

802
00:37:41,160 --> 00:37:42,000
Speaker 3: One woman is too.

803
00:37:41,920 --> 00:37:46,160
Speaker 4: Many, but one in every four days in either of

804
00:37:46,160 --> 00:37:48,920
Speaker 4: those countries is far too many. And in this country,

805
00:37:48,960 --> 00:37:51,920
Speaker 4: with the population of twenty two million, that is a

806
00:37:52,160 --> 00:37:56,440
Speaker 4: shocking number. So you know, we have to try and

807
00:37:56,520 --> 00:37:59,960
Speaker 4: do something about that. I can't be complacent about that.

808
00:38:00,040 --> 00:38:03,960
Speaker 4: I can't just go oh, well like it. You know,

809
00:38:04,120 --> 00:38:07,240
Speaker 4: I'm not in that position where that's likely to happen.

810
00:38:07,320 --> 00:38:09,880
Speaker 4: So I'm just going to crack on with watching, you know,

811
00:38:09,920 --> 00:38:13,200
Speaker 4: married at first sight and having a cocktail, and you

812
00:38:13,280 --> 00:38:14,719
Speaker 4: have to have a go at that. You have to

813
00:38:14,800 --> 00:38:17,000
Speaker 4: have a go at changing that and at least try

814
00:38:17,040 --> 00:38:19,280
Speaker 4: and make some kind of contribution.

815
00:38:18,719 --> 00:38:19,520
Speaker 3: To changing that.

816
00:38:20,040 --> 00:38:24,120
Speaker 4: But unless you are prepared to work on yourself and

817
00:38:24,160 --> 00:38:30,400
Speaker 4: the places where you are lying to yourself, disassociating, saying

818
00:38:30,560 --> 00:38:33,200
Speaker 4: I'm going to look after myself and not looking after myself,

819
00:38:33,320 --> 00:38:35,480
Speaker 4: pretending my priorities and are not what they are. You

820
00:38:35,520 --> 00:38:38,040
Speaker 4: know what your priorities are by based on what you do.

821
00:38:38,840 --> 00:38:42,400
Speaker 3: Everyone will tell you, oh, health top priority, family, top priority.

822
00:38:42,800 --> 00:38:47,200
Speaker 4: But if every morning you get up and you know

823
00:38:47,280 --> 00:38:50,960
Speaker 4: that your health span would be better if you did

824
00:38:51,200 --> 00:38:53,040
Speaker 4: do a downward facing dog or went for a walk

825
00:38:53,080 --> 00:38:56,600
Speaker 4: or whatever it is, or you know, you at.

826
00:38:56,520 --> 00:38:59,080
Speaker 1: That first dart of the day, Yeah, yeah, well it

827
00:38:59,080 --> 00:38:59,839
Speaker 1: really hits part.

828
00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:03,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly. You then it's not a priority.

829
00:39:03,600 --> 00:39:04,239
Speaker 1: It's just not.

830
00:39:04,520 --> 00:39:05,160
Speaker 3: It's just not.

831
00:39:05,360 --> 00:39:08,040
Speaker 4: So you know, whatever it is that you're telling yourself

832
00:39:08,080 --> 00:39:10,239
Speaker 4: is most important. If you say families most important, but

833
00:39:10,880 --> 00:39:14,759
Speaker 4: you never find time to visit you you know, relatives

834
00:39:14,760 --> 00:39:17,160
Speaker 4: who you know, you have a close connection with, or whatever,

835
00:39:17,640 --> 00:39:18,320
Speaker 4: then it isn't.

836
00:39:18,680 --> 00:39:19,360
Speaker 3: Then it isn't.

837
00:39:19,520 --> 00:39:21,840
Speaker 4: You know, there's I'll tell you there's executives working in

838
00:39:21,880 --> 00:39:24,439
Speaker 4: the city who would say, oh, my kid's the most

839
00:39:24,440 --> 00:39:26,319
Speaker 4: important thing to me, but they haven't seen their kids

840
00:39:26,360 --> 00:39:29,160
Speaker 4: in six weeks. Because they have been flying around the

841
00:39:29,200 --> 00:39:32,680
Speaker 4: world and they missed their kids concert or whatever, and.

842
00:39:33,040 --> 00:39:34,280
Speaker 3: Then it isn't. Then it isn't.

843
00:39:34,320 --> 00:39:37,000
Speaker 4: You know what's most important to you by what you

844
00:39:37,080 --> 00:39:40,440
Speaker 4: put first consistently that that doesn't mean that. Of course,

845
00:39:40,440 --> 00:39:43,680
Speaker 4: there are times in our life when something else has

846
00:39:43,719 --> 00:39:45,040
Speaker 4: to come first because it's more urgent.

847
00:39:45,160 --> 00:39:47,000
Speaker 3: But overall we.

848
00:39:47,000 --> 00:39:50,520
Speaker 4: Know what's most important by what we do, not what

849
00:39:50,560 --> 00:39:53,600
Speaker 4: we say. If you break that cycle, like when at

850
00:39:53,600 --> 00:39:56,520
Speaker 4: the start of the lockdown, which went on and off

851
00:39:56,560 --> 00:39:59,200
Speaker 4: for two years in London, we didn't know how long

852
00:39:59,200 --> 00:40:03,080
Speaker 4: it was going to go for I just went, I

853
00:40:03,120 --> 00:40:06,200
Speaker 4: know myself and it's really easy for me to become

854
00:40:06,640 --> 00:40:10,279
Speaker 4: not physical, and I thought we were allowed to go

855
00:40:10,320 --> 00:40:12,640
Speaker 4: for one walk a day, didn't have a peloton at

856
00:40:12,640 --> 00:40:16,920
Speaker 4: that point, and I just thought, I can see this

857
00:40:17,040 --> 00:40:20,040
Speaker 4: going very badly, and I can see myself staying up

858
00:40:20,080 --> 00:40:23,280
Speaker 4: later and later working, sleeping in later and later getting

859
00:40:23,280 --> 00:40:27,080
Speaker 4: depressed and becoming really on physical and really miserable, because

860
00:40:27,120 --> 00:40:29,239
Speaker 4: I know I get depressed if I don't move. And

861
00:40:29,280 --> 00:40:30,960
Speaker 4: I thought all the sorts of you know, I'd come

862
00:40:31,000 --> 00:40:33,560
Speaker 4: out the other end of lockdown in a physical physically

863
00:40:33,640 --> 00:40:35,759
Speaker 4: in a worse shape. You know which affecting my health span,

864
00:40:35,760 --> 00:40:39,399
Speaker 4: my life span, everything. So I booked in a nine

865
00:40:39,440 --> 00:40:43,839
Speaker 4: to thirty dance class fire Zoom because I knew if

866
00:40:43,840 --> 00:40:46,440
Speaker 4: it was like join our dance class, I could lie

867
00:40:46,480 --> 00:40:48,759
Speaker 4: in bed going, I'll go tomorrow. There's twelve people there,

868
00:40:48,880 --> 00:40:51,440
Speaker 4: they don't need me. So it had to be me

869
00:40:51,760 --> 00:40:54,960
Speaker 4: and my dance teacher. I need an embarrassing deadline, like

870
00:40:55,040 --> 00:40:56,680
Speaker 4: she's just waiting there on another end of Zoom, and

871
00:40:56,719 --> 00:40:58,279
Speaker 4: I'm going to just lie in bed and just let

872
00:40:58,280 --> 00:40:59,920
Speaker 4: her wait. And also I'm going to pay for the class,

873
00:41:00,160 --> 00:41:02,360
Speaker 4: which I can't afford to do unless I take the class.

874
00:41:03,200 --> 00:41:06,680
Speaker 4: And eventually I danced for two hours a day, or

875
00:41:06,719 --> 00:41:08,959
Speaker 4: I did an hour dance and an our personal training.

876
00:41:08,640 --> 00:41:09,640
Speaker 3: Every single day.

877
00:41:10,280 --> 00:41:12,640
Speaker 4: And I at the beginning the reason I did dance

878
00:41:12,680 --> 00:41:14,000
Speaker 4: is I'd always wanted to learn to dance.

879
00:41:14,040 --> 00:41:15,359
Speaker 3: I'd done dance and beats as a kid.

880
00:41:15,400 --> 00:41:17,040
Speaker 4: But I was really I was one of those people

881
00:41:17,120 --> 00:41:19,400
Speaker 4: that at a hen night or a sketch show or

882
00:41:19,400 --> 00:41:21,640
Speaker 4: something where everyone had to do a bit of simple choreography,

883
00:41:22,080 --> 00:41:23,799
Speaker 4: I'd be like checking the excepts going I'll go left

884
00:41:23,840 --> 00:41:25,440
Speaker 4: when everyone else goes right. I'm not going to be

885
00:41:25,440 --> 00:41:27,080
Speaker 4: able to do this. I'm the kind of person who

886
00:41:27,160 --> 00:41:30,800
Speaker 4: can't remember choreography, and I thought, that's.

887
00:41:30,600 --> 00:41:31,920
Speaker 3: A challenge I'll set for myself.

888
00:41:31,960 --> 00:41:33,920
Speaker 4: So rather than personal training, which feels a bit like

889
00:41:34,239 --> 00:41:38,319
Speaker 4: these things, I wanted to learn how to dance. And

890
00:41:39,200 --> 00:41:42,719
Speaker 4: by the end of the pandemic, I at the end

891
00:41:42,760 --> 00:41:43,240
Speaker 4: of a pandemic.

892
00:41:43,280 --> 00:41:45,200
Speaker 3: I shouldn't say that this is a pandemic is still

893
00:41:45,200 --> 00:41:45,440
Speaker 3: going on.

894
00:41:45,520 --> 00:41:47,759
Speaker 4: By the end of the lockdowns, because we started to

895
00:41:47,800 --> 00:41:49,239
Speaker 4: be allowed to come out, like I could go to

896
00:41:49,280 --> 00:41:51,040
Speaker 4: a studio around the corner and work with the dance

897
00:41:51,280 --> 00:41:53,120
Speaker 4: teacher one on one for a while, and things like that.

898
00:41:53,960 --> 00:41:56,520
Speaker 4: I could do, like, you know, I had proper West

899
00:41:56,640 --> 00:41:59,040
Speaker 4: End choreography, and I could do it, and I could

900
00:41:59,080 --> 00:42:02,399
Speaker 4: pick it up, you know, relatively quickly, because I said

901
00:42:02,440 --> 00:42:04,040
Speaker 4: to them, I don't just want to dance to keep fit.

902
00:42:04,120 --> 00:42:05,759
Speaker 4: I had two dance teachers and I said, I don't

903
00:42:05,760 --> 00:42:07,560
Speaker 4: want to get danced to keep fit. I want to

904
00:42:07,640 --> 00:42:09,759
Speaker 4: learn how to do it properly. I want to learn

905
00:42:10,440 --> 00:42:12,200
Speaker 4: how to look like a dancer, how to feel like

906
00:42:12,239 --> 00:42:16,239
Speaker 4: a dancer. And it was kind of amazing at the

907
00:42:16,400 --> 00:42:18,919
Speaker 4: end how much I could do. And I now, because

908
00:42:18,920 --> 00:42:22,840
Speaker 4: I've been on tour. You know, I've stopped dancing, and

909
00:42:22,920 --> 00:42:25,799
Speaker 4: for a while I was like, I felt like a dancer.

910
00:42:25,840 --> 00:42:27,520
Speaker 4: I felt like, you can say I'm not you know,

911
00:42:27,840 --> 00:42:30,120
Speaker 4: obviously if unless you've been dancing since you're a child,

912
00:42:30,160 --> 00:42:33,040
Speaker 4: you're never going to be a professional dancer. But you

913
00:42:33,040 --> 00:42:36,120
Speaker 4: could say I'm not a professional dancer. But you can't

914
00:42:36,120 --> 00:42:37,440
Speaker 4: say I'm not a dancer because I get out of

915
00:42:37,440 --> 00:42:38,920
Speaker 4: bed and dance every day and I really want to

916
00:42:38,920 --> 00:42:40,200
Speaker 4: go back to it when I go back to London,

917
00:42:40,200 --> 00:42:42,520
Speaker 4: because I'm like, that made me feel like a different

918
00:42:42,560 --> 00:42:43,120
Speaker 4: kind of person.

919
00:42:43,239 --> 00:42:43,920
Speaker 3: What did it feel like?

920
00:42:44,560 --> 00:42:47,319
Speaker 1: Because not that's something you have to you absolutely have

921
00:42:47,360 --> 00:42:49,800
Speaker 1: to do quite deliberately, particularly the kind of corrier or

922
00:42:49,800 --> 00:42:52,960
Speaker 1: for you're speaking about. What did it feel like to

923
00:42:53,040 --> 00:42:57,240
Speaker 1: discover a fluency of movement and how did it change

924
00:42:57,360 --> 00:42:59,160
Speaker 1: the relationship you had with your own body.

925
00:43:00,520 --> 00:43:03,480
Speaker 3: Massively? It felt like I was.

926
00:43:05,280 --> 00:43:09,680
Speaker 4: Connecting with parts of my body and myself that I

927
00:43:09,719 --> 00:43:10,879
Speaker 4: had never connected with.

928
00:43:11,200 --> 00:43:12,200
Speaker 3: I feel the same about yoga.

929
00:43:12,239 --> 00:43:14,120
Speaker 4: I had a yoga practice for a long time before then,

930
00:43:14,640 --> 00:43:17,240
Speaker 4: and sometimes if I haven't been to yoga for a while,

931
00:43:18,360 --> 00:43:20,160
Speaker 4: it feels like a date night with my own body,

932
00:43:20,400 --> 00:43:22,440
Speaker 4: Like I'll go and I'll go, oh, there you are hello.

933
00:43:22,719 --> 00:43:25,600
Speaker 4: Because when I was young, when I was fourteen, my

934
00:43:25,600 --> 00:43:29,120
Speaker 4: family became Jehovah's witnesses. And that was a really difficult

935
00:43:29,160 --> 00:43:31,319
Speaker 4: time to become a Jehovah's witness because you're just coming

936
00:43:31,320 --> 00:43:35,400
Speaker 4: into your body as an adolescent and finding out different

937
00:43:35,440 --> 00:43:38,239
Speaker 4: things about your body. And I just disassociated because they

938
00:43:38,280 --> 00:43:39,960
Speaker 4: were like, you know, you can't get to know your

939
00:43:40,000 --> 00:43:42,279
Speaker 4: body in that way. And also there's a scripture in

940
00:43:42,360 --> 00:43:45,439
Speaker 4: First Timothy where Paul says to Timothy, who's a young man,

941
00:43:46,600 --> 00:43:50,640
Speaker 4: bodily training is beneficial for a little but godly devotion

942
00:43:50,719 --> 00:43:52,920
Speaker 4: is beneficial for all things. And that was the advice

943
00:43:53,000 --> 00:43:56,399
Speaker 4: that Paul gave to Timothy to not get involved with

944
00:43:56,880 --> 00:44:00,680
Speaker 4: sport or lifting or anything like that. It was just like,

945
00:44:00,880 --> 00:44:03,640
Speaker 4: don't devote yourself to that. You can do it for

946
00:44:03,680 --> 00:44:05,160
Speaker 4: a little bit, but don't you know. So there was

947
00:44:05,360 --> 00:44:07,600
Speaker 4: you weren't allowed to really take up an exercise, and

948
00:44:07,640 --> 00:44:10,080
Speaker 4: they didn't like team sports because it was competitive. So

949
00:44:10,280 --> 00:44:13,439
Speaker 4: it was just check out from your body. Don't feel

950
00:44:13,440 --> 00:44:18,719
Speaker 4: any sexual feelings, even on your own. Don't unless you're married, which,

951
00:44:18,719 --> 00:44:21,200
Speaker 4: of course, at fourteen, I you know, was not married.

952
00:44:21,440 --> 00:44:21,960
Speaker 1: Back in the day.

953
00:44:23,560 --> 00:44:27,120
Speaker 4: And also you know, even if you like somebody in

954
00:44:27,160 --> 00:44:30,400
Speaker 4: the congregation until your marriage, shouldn't be having any sexual feelings,

955
00:44:30,440 --> 00:44:35,440
Speaker 4: so you just completely disconnect yourself from your just ignore

956
00:44:35,440 --> 00:44:38,759
Speaker 4: that party, disassociate. So I'm quite I have been quite

957
00:44:38,800 --> 00:44:42,480
Speaker 4: disassociated from my body. There's been various things that have helped,

958
00:44:42,520 --> 00:44:47,680
Speaker 4: including having a movement practice, obviously getting older and you know,

959
00:44:48,560 --> 00:44:50,840
Speaker 4: becoming a sexual being and you know, getting away from

960
00:44:50,960 --> 00:44:56,400
Speaker 4: that religion and becoming a sexual being, but also having

961
00:44:57,120 --> 00:45:00,600
Speaker 4: experience with psychedelics, which I've only done in places where

962
00:45:00,600 --> 00:45:04,480
Speaker 4: it's legal, with shaman and therapists and very very well supported.

963
00:45:04,520 --> 00:45:07,640
Speaker 4: I don't recommend doing psychedelics unless it's legal, safe, and

964
00:45:07,680 --> 00:45:10,120
Speaker 4: you were supported by Sharman and someone.

965
00:45:10,120 --> 00:45:13,680
Speaker 1: To speak about microdoc on the other day, I'm like, what, really,

966
00:45:13,760 --> 00:45:15,760
Speaker 1: you want to just stand in front of a fire

967
00:45:15,800 --> 00:45:18,279
Speaker 1: hose of fucking kerosene with a cigarette lighter in your

968
00:45:18,320 --> 00:45:20,960
Speaker 1: hand and think it's going to be just fine unless

969
00:45:20,960 --> 00:45:24,480
Speaker 1: the fucking fire department is standing by, like it's terrifying.

970
00:45:24,640 --> 00:45:28,399
Speaker 4: I don't know too much about microdocing, and I'm sure

971
00:45:28,400 --> 00:45:31,080
Speaker 4: if you do it in a safe way with proper

972
00:45:31,200 --> 00:45:34,440
Speaker 4: therapeutic support, it could be great, but I would just

973
00:45:34,480 --> 00:45:38,920
Speaker 4: say don't go rogue. It's really dangerous. But with the

974
00:45:39,040 --> 00:45:41,880
Speaker 4: right support it can be upside yes, because that's.

975
00:45:41,719 --> 00:45:43,440
Speaker 1: What it was for. That's how it showed up. And

976
00:45:43,440 --> 00:45:46,000
Speaker 1: this is how extraordinary if you listen to Terrence McKenna

977
00:45:46,080 --> 00:45:48,880
Speaker 1: or read Terrence McKenna, this is how great leaps of

978
00:45:48,880 --> 00:45:53,080
Speaker 1: our brains apparently happened through the use of this stuff.

979
00:45:53,800 --> 00:45:56,839
Speaker 1: You know, our ideation went to places otherwise never would

980
00:45:56,920 --> 00:46:01,560
Speaker 1: have through ingesting, ingesting plan. But I just wanted to

981
00:46:01,600 --> 00:46:04,600
Speaker 1: talk a little bit about the the church thing. As

982
00:46:04,600 --> 00:46:07,120
Speaker 1: I mentioned earlier, my wife is Fiji and Audrey whom

983
00:46:07,160 --> 00:46:10,680
Speaker 1: he met upstairs, and the JW's all over the Pacific,

984
00:46:10,800 --> 00:46:12,759
Speaker 1: they really are, and they seem to forgotten the part

985
00:46:12,760 --> 00:46:15,799
Speaker 1: about don't do physical training because they really love those

986
00:46:16,040 --> 00:46:17,239
Speaker 1: you know guys to go and play a lot of

987
00:46:17,320 --> 00:46:19,279
Speaker 1: rugby or you know, go to the States and you know,

988
00:46:19,520 --> 00:46:22,600
Speaker 1: play the NFL. So maybe that the Jovah's Witnesses.

989
00:46:22,680 --> 00:46:26,879
Speaker 3: Yeah, no, get out those boys in neckgarme on NFL. No,

990
00:46:27,080 --> 00:46:29,600
Speaker 3: can't you can't do Team JWS the in the NFL.

991
00:46:29,800 --> 00:46:33,759
Speaker 4: Well, listen, maybe there are but the official guidance from

992
00:46:33,760 --> 00:46:35,480
Speaker 4: the Watchtowers team sports is not a good thing.

993
00:46:35,480 --> 00:46:37,000
Speaker 3: And this is why Serena Williams.

994
00:46:36,719 --> 00:46:38,719
Speaker 4: Being a Jeovah's Witnesses, and there's very lots of ex

995
00:46:38,800 --> 00:46:41,360
Speaker 4: Jeovah's witnesses go, what, we wan't allowed to play sports

996
00:46:41,360 --> 00:46:41,840
Speaker 4: at school?

997
00:46:42,000 --> 00:46:43,160
Speaker 1: Do they have a point? At one point?

998
00:46:43,280 --> 00:46:44,040
Speaker 3: Go do they ever?

999
00:46:44,080 --> 00:46:46,520
Speaker 1: Go? Princes and jw come on, did they ever?

1000
00:46:47,040 --> 00:46:47,320
Speaker 2: There?

1001
00:46:48,480 --> 00:46:50,759
Speaker 4: There is a there's a big disconnect and again at

1002
00:46:50,760 --> 00:46:54,439
Speaker 4: disassociation in the organization about there are some exceptionalized people

1003
00:46:54,440 --> 00:46:58,200
Speaker 4: who are celebrities, but real Jehovah's witnesses go, yeah, they

1004
00:46:58,239 --> 00:47:01,120
Speaker 4: can't really be a Jehovah's witness And why does the

1005
00:47:01,120 --> 00:47:02,799
Speaker 4: Watchhouse society accept it?

1006
00:47:02,880 --> 00:47:03,480
Speaker 3: We don't know.

1007
00:47:04,600 --> 00:47:06,080
Speaker 1: I guess because he's George Benson.

1008
00:47:06,400 --> 00:47:10,279
Speaker 4: Yeah, I guess, so, I guess, So give you the

1009
00:47:10,320 --> 00:47:13,960
Speaker 4: not George, but regular Jehovah's witnesses are discouraged from playing

1010
00:47:13,960 --> 00:47:17,640
Speaker 4: any instruments at school, doing drama at school, doing.

1011
00:47:17,480 --> 00:47:18,400
Speaker 3: Sport at school.

1012
00:47:19,280 --> 00:47:22,360
Speaker 4: It's it's just I mean, I fortunately, I was fourteen

1013
00:47:22,400 --> 00:47:24,600
Speaker 4: when we started studying, so I was already involved in

1014
00:47:24,640 --> 00:47:25,959
Speaker 4: those things and they didn't just.

1015
00:47:25,920 --> 00:47:27,399
Speaker 3: Like overnight pull you out.

1016
00:47:28,239 --> 00:47:30,799
Speaker 4: But regular other Jehahs witness kids a school, we wan't

1017
00:47:30,800 --> 00:47:32,680
Speaker 4: allowed to do those things because it's like associating with

1018
00:47:32,680 --> 00:47:34,719
Speaker 4: the world. You should just be focusing on knocking on

1019
00:47:34,719 --> 00:47:35,279
Speaker 4: people's doors.

1020
00:47:35,280 --> 00:47:35,759
Speaker 1: Did you do that?

1021
00:47:36,560 --> 00:47:36,680
Speaker 2: Oh?

1022
00:47:36,760 --> 00:47:39,360
Speaker 4: Yeah, I was a pioneer, which means I was knocking

1023
00:47:39,360 --> 00:47:41,520
Speaker 4: on doors ninety has a month. I wasn't allowed to

1024
00:47:41,520 --> 00:47:44,640
Speaker 4: go to university. I had to do that instead, and

1025
00:47:44,960 --> 00:47:46,960
Speaker 4: I was devout and I thought it was true. I

1026
00:47:47,000 --> 00:47:47,640
Speaker 4: believed in it.

1027
00:47:47,960 --> 00:47:54,920
Speaker 1: What I woke up, Tell me about that, I unless

1028
00:47:54,960 --> 00:47:56,560
Speaker 1: that's the topic of the book that you were telling

1029
00:47:56,560 --> 00:47:57,240
Speaker 1: me you just finished.

1030
00:47:57,400 --> 00:47:59,600
Speaker 3: No, no, no, but I do talk about it in there.

1031
00:47:59,600 --> 00:48:01,120
Speaker 3: But yeah, I woke up.

1032
00:48:01,120 --> 00:48:03,879
Speaker 4: If you keep going to the meetings five meetings a week,

1033
00:48:04,040 --> 00:48:05,920
Speaker 4: as it was in those days, or three to five

1034
00:48:05,960 --> 00:48:07,520
Speaker 4: meetings a week, depending on how you look at it,

1035
00:48:07,840 --> 00:48:09,680
Speaker 4: and you keep knocking on doors, and you keep plugged

1036
00:48:09,680 --> 00:48:13,480
Speaker 4: in anything that has a brain washing component, you'll keep

1037
00:48:13,520 --> 00:48:15,560
Speaker 4: on washing your own brain. It's exactly like I'm the

1038
00:48:15,640 --> 00:48:17,560
Speaker 4: kind of person. I'm the kind of person who goes

1039
00:48:17,560 --> 00:48:19,439
Speaker 4: for a run Armagedon's coming in. If I don't knock

1040
00:48:19,440 --> 00:48:22,040
Speaker 4: on doors, you know Jehovah won't be happy, and you

1041
00:48:22,120 --> 00:48:24,840
Speaker 4: know I won't survive Imageddon. And it's my responsibility to

1042
00:48:24,880 --> 00:48:27,439
Speaker 4: tell other people all of that. So it was only

1043
00:48:27,480 --> 00:48:29,760
Speaker 4: when I had a few bad experiences in a kangaroo

1044
00:48:29,760 --> 00:48:33,319
Speaker 4: courts things like that, that I started withdrawing a bit

1045
00:48:33,320 --> 00:48:35,920
Speaker 4: and going to meetings less, move to a different country.

1046
00:48:36,719 --> 00:48:38,359
Speaker 4: And then the more you're away from it, the more

1047
00:48:38,400 --> 00:48:40,040
Speaker 4: you wake up, the more you suddenly go hold on

1048
00:48:40,080 --> 00:48:42,399
Speaker 4: a minute, or you can one can. I shouldn't say

1049
00:48:42,400 --> 00:48:45,399
Speaker 4: what everyone does, but for me, I just started going,

1050
00:48:45,440 --> 00:48:46,759
Speaker 4: this isn't really, this isn't true.

1051
00:48:46,840 --> 00:48:47,600
Speaker 3: Hold on a minute.

1052
00:48:47,680 --> 00:48:49,439
Speaker 4: I think I've only got one life and it's this one,

1053
00:48:49,440 --> 00:48:51,799
Speaker 4: and if I don't start living it soon. So I

1054
00:48:51,800 --> 00:48:54,239
Speaker 4: was in my twenties and I just went, oh, hold

1055
00:48:54,280 --> 00:48:56,880
Speaker 4: on a minute, this is not this is made up.

1056
00:48:57,400 --> 00:49:00,319
Speaker 4: Armagedon's not coming. There's no paradise Earth. Jehovah don't want

1057
00:49:00,320 --> 00:49:01,839
Speaker 4: me to do this that. I don't even know if

1058
00:49:01,840 --> 00:49:04,480
Speaker 4: there is a god, but if there is, he's definitely

1059
00:49:04,520 --> 00:49:06,680
Speaker 4: not wanting me to walk around to the doors and

1060
00:49:06,680 --> 00:49:09,640
Speaker 4: the son trying to get people to take the Watchtown magazine.

1061
00:49:09,719 --> 00:49:11,520
Speaker 4: This is made up. You better go and live your life.

1062
00:49:12,400 --> 00:49:13,880
Speaker 4: I was meant to go to the University of Queensland.

1063
00:49:13,880 --> 00:49:15,360
Speaker 4: It wasn't let to go by that point I was

1064
00:49:15,360 --> 00:49:17,239
Speaker 4: living in London and I applied to Oxford and I

1065
00:49:17,280 --> 00:49:20,960
Speaker 4: got in on my school results and I got to

1066
00:49:20,960 --> 00:49:22,680
Speaker 4: go to Oxford. So you know, I'm sure I would

1067
00:49:22,680 --> 00:49:24,799
Speaker 4: have had a fantastic time at University of Queensland as well.

1068
00:49:24,840 --> 00:49:27,160
Speaker 4: But I you know, I've had a road less traveled

1069
00:49:27,200 --> 00:49:30,359
Speaker 4: by which has you know, maybe I would have been

1070
00:49:30,400 --> 00:49:32,560
Speaker 4: more on a conveyor belt here. Maybe if I hadn't

1071
00:49:32,640 --> 00:49:36,160
Speaker 4: joined the religion, I would have just gone UNI, get

1072
00:49:36,160 --> 00:49:39,440
Speaker 4: a regular job, go get married, have two kids, you know,

1073
00:49:39,520 --> 00:49:42,479
Speaker 4: and that would have been a wonderful life too.

1074
00:49:42,680 --> 00:49:44,600
Speaker 3: This is not a dismissal of that life. I'm sure

1075
00:49:44,640 --> 00:49:45,279
Speaker 3: I would have had.

1076
00:49:45,440 --> 00:49:47,880
Speaker 4: There would have been many wonderful things about that. But

1077
00:49:47,960 --> 00:49:50,560
Speaker 4: I think there are always civil linings. And my silver

1078
00:49:50,640 --> 00:49:55,239
Speaker 4: larning is I've lived a very strange life and I

1079
00:49:55,440 --> 00:49:59,360
Speaker 4: have had a lot of exceptional experiences and joy that

1080
00:49:59,680 --> 00:50:02,800
Speaker 4: I would not otherwise have had. And it's I really believe,

1081
00:50:02,920 --> 00:50:06,440
Speaker 4: like I tried to have children, I couldn't and I think,

1082
00:50:06,600 --> 00:50:09,520
Speaker 4: you know, for a lot of people, that's very, very traumatic,

1083
00:50:10,560 --> 00:50:13,759
Speaker 4: and that is a biological driver and it's totally understandable.

1084
00:50:13,800 --> 00:50:16,319
Speaker 4: So this is not a diminishment of anyone's experience. But

1085
00:50:16,360 --> 00:50:18,880
Speaker 4: I got to a point with that with fertility treatment

1086
00:50:18,920 --> 00:50:22,479
Speaker 4: where I went, you know, fertility treatment can really alter

1087
00:50:22,560 --> 00:50:28,000
Speaker 4: your hormonal, you know, make up, and it was I

1088
00:50:28,040 --> 00:50:30,719
Speaker 4: found it very overwhelming, and I hit a point with

1089
00:50:30,760 --> 00:50:33,759
Speaker 4: it where I went, I know what the wonderful things

1090
00:50:33,760 --> 00:50:38,480
Speaker 4: about having children are? I think, what are the wonderful

1091
00:50:38,480 --> 00:50:40,480
Speaker 4: things about not having children? And my husband and I

1092
00:50:40,560 --> 00:50:42,080
Speaker 4: talked about it, and I said, look, what I will

1093
00:50:42,080 --> 00:50:44,839
Speaker 4: not do is not have children. Just watch Netflix and die.

1094
00:50:46,000 --> 00:50:48,200
Speaker 4: But when we talk to our friends with children and

1095
00:50:48,200 --> 00:50:49,960
Speaker 4: they say, ah, we'd love to come to New York

1096
00:50:50,000 --> 00:50:52,359
Speaker 4: with you, but the kids are in school at that point,

1097
00:50:52,400 --> 00:50:55,239
Speaker 4: and you know, we I'd loved to have taken that

1098
00:50:55,320 --> 00:50:58,440
Speaker 4: job in LA and write that writer's room. But Jenny's

1099
00:50:58,560 --> 00:51:01,160
Speaker 4: just found a school that she and she got bullied

1100
00:51:01,160 --> 00:51:02,880
Speaker 4: at the law school, and she's finally happy, and we

1101
00:51:03,000 --> 00:51:04,680
Speaker 4: just can't pull her out of another school. It's just

1102
00:51:04,680 --> 00:51:07,759
Speaker 4: going to break her heart. And you know, actually, I'm

1103
00:51:07,760 --> 00:51:10,800
Speaker 4: not going to take that job. So what is it

1104
00:51:10,880 --> 00:51:15,200
Speaker 4: that you can do without children? You know, Also, if

1105
00:51:15,520 --> 00:51:17,239
Speaker 4: I'm in the arts, and I'm very lucky to work

1106
00:51:17,280 --> 00:51:19,640
Speaker 4: in a job that I love and be a performer

1107
00:51:19,680 --> 00:51:21,719
Speaker 4: and a writer in those kinds of things. Also, I'm

1108
00:51:21,760 --> 00:51:25,000
Speaker 4: talking from a place of massive access to jobs that

1109
00:51:25,040 --> 00:51:26,799
Speaker 4: other people wouldn't necessarily have.

1110
00:51:27,640 --> 00:51:28,560
Speaker 3: But wherever you are.

1111
00:51:28,440 --> 00:51:30,319
Speaker 4: And whatever you love doing, and whatever it is that

1112
00:51:30,400 --> 00:51:32,839
Speaker 4: floats your boat, whether that be you know, going down

1113
00:51:32,880 --> 00:51:35,320
Speaker 4: to the beach in the morning and you know, kayaking,

1114
00:51:35,440 --> 00:51:39,399
Speaker 4: or whatever it is, whether that be meditation wherever you live,

1115
00:51:39,480 --> 00:51:42,720
Speaker 4: or whether that be you know, listening to going to

1116
00:51:42,880 --> 00:51:45,719
Speaker 4: see concerts or whatever it is. Whatever's the thing that

1117
00:51:45,840 --> 00:51:49,000
Speaker 4: gives you peace and makes you happy, or whatever ambitions

1118
00:51:49,040 --> 00:51:50,680
Speaker 4: you have. It could be writing a book about the

1119
00:51:50,719 --> 00:51:53,839
Speaker 4: shit childhood you have, whatever, whatever it is for you,

1120
00:51:55,600 --> 00:51:56,880
Speaker 4: What is it that you can do? What do you

1121
00:51:56,880 --> 00:51:59,280
Speaker 4: have access to because you don't have a child waking

1122
00:51:59,280 --> 00:52:01,880
Speaker 4: you in the night or keeping you in a certain town,

1123
00:52:02,239 --> 00:52:05,320
Speaker 4: or whatever it is. What can you do without children

1124
00:52:05,320 --> 00:52:07,200
Speaker 4: that you couldn't do with them? What do you have

1125
00:52:07,239 --> 00:52:11,240
Speaker 4: access to? Can you make more of that and find

1126
00:52:11,320 --> 00:52:12,239
Speaker 4: great joy in that?

1127
00:52:12,520 --> 00:52:16,479
Speaker 3: And once we started to write down a list of what.

1128
00:52:16,400 --> 00:52:18,920
Speaker 4: Could we do if we chose to go down this

1129
00:52:18,960 --> 00:52:21,719
Speaker 4: different road we went what if we did that, we'd

1130
00:52:21,760 --> 00:52:23,960
Speaker 4: have so much joy, be a different joy from children,

1131
00:52:24,120 --> 00:52:27,400
Speaker 4: but we'd have so much extra joy here that we

1132
00:52:27,440 --> 00:52:28,319
Speaker 4: wouldn't have here.

1133
00:52:28,440 --> 00:52:30,040
Speaker 3: Now if we go here, we have extra joy here

1134
00:52:30,040 --> 00:52:30,879
Speaker 3: that we wouldn't have here.

1135
00:52:31,160 --> 00:52:34,839
Speaker 4: So instead of spending ten years putting my body through

1136
00:52:34,840 --> 00:52:37,080
Speaker 4: that to get a child that men maybe would wake

1137
00:52:37,080 --> 00:52:38,400
Speaker 4: me up four times a night and I'd go, what

1138
00:52:38,400 --> 00:52:39,200
Speaker 4: have I done this for?

1139
00:52:39,800 --> 00:52:40,040
Speaker 2: You know?

1140
00:52:40,400 --> 00:52:44,080
Speaker 4: Maybe get going right now on this track.

1141
00:52:45,120 --> 00:52:47,120
Speaker 1: Just a moment away to say, I'm going to take

1142
00:52:47,160 --> 00:52:50,320
Speaker 1: a break. If you enjoy this is it, please consider

1143
00:52:50,400 --> 00:52:52,840
Speaker 1: sharing it with someone. We'll be back in at jiffy.

1144
00:53:00,400 --> 00:53:02,520
Speaker 1: The true superpower that we have as humans, I think,

1145
00:53:02,600 --> 00:53:04,080
Speaker 1: is that we have the ability to change how we

1146
00:53:04,080 --> 00:53:06,680
Speaker 1: feel about things if our brains are working well. I

1147
00:53:06,680 --> 00:53:08,160
Speaker 1: have been through points of my wife where and they

1148
00:53:08,160 --> 00:53:10,160
Speaker 1: had a fuck ton of meads. So my brain.

1149
00:53:11,719 --> 00:53:15,680
Speaker 4: Brains not always our brains are not always on team,

1150
00:53:16,080 --> 00:53:20,040
Speaker 4: on team, you know, best priority. But you know we

1151
00:53:20,120 --> 00:53:22,080
Speaker 4: have to reconcile that, and we have to you know,

1152
00:53:22,239 --> 00:53:24,560
Speaker 4: the thing is when you're depressed, and I'm very lucky

1153
00:53:24,600 --> 00:53:27,920
Speaker 4: I have not suffered with clinical depression. I tend to

1154
00:53:27,960 --> 00:53:29,759
Speaker 4: get only to get down if there are things to

1155
00:53:29,800 --> 00:53:31,759
Speaker 4: be down about, So that's very very lucky. But when

1156
00:53:31,800 --> 00:53:34,279
Speaker 4: I was doing that hormonal treatment for IVF that I

1157
00:53:34,320 --> 00:53:37,799
Speaker 4: told you about. It absolutely screwed with my head. And

1158
00:53:37,840 --> 00:53:40,239
Speaker 4: when you have clinical depression, which is the only time

1159
00:53:40,239 --> 00:53:42,400
Speaker 4: in my life I think I've really suffered from clinical depression.

1160
00:53:43,040 --> 00:53:44,360
Speaker 4: And it turned out I went in and said, I

1161
00:53:44,360 --> 00:53:45,520
Speaker 4: don't think you should be trying to have a baby

1162
00:53:45,560 --> 00:53:48,880
Speaker 4: because I feel like this, and the medical profession went professional, went, oh,

1163
00:53:49,160 --> 00:53:51,080
Speaker 4: hold on, are you on the pesori as well as

1164
00:53:51,400 --> 00:53:54,160
Speaker 4: the nasal spray. Yes, that can cause those kind of

1165
00:53:55,040 --> 00:53:57,800
Speaker 4: deeply depressive symp I was like, what you could have

1166
00:53:57,880 --> 00:53:59,719
Speaker 4: mentioned that, no, no will pop you off, that we'll

1167
00:53:59,719 --> 00:54:00,600
Speaker 4: put yourneardrops.

1168
00:54:00,600 --> 00:54:01,239
Speaker 3: Oh my god.

1169
00:54:01,360 --> 00:54:05,399
Speaker 4: Anyway, when you have clinical depression, you don't think, oh god,

1170
00:54:05,400 --> 00:54:08,759
Speaker 4: I'm depressed. You think the truth has been revealed to me. Now,

1171
00:54:08,920 --> 00:54:13,880
Speaker 4: all the other time that I was experiencing happiness or

1172
00:54:13,880 --> 00:54:18,520
Speaker 4: hope or optimism or contentment, that was a lie.

1173
00:54:18,600 --> 00:54:19,520
Speaker 1: It's all fair, it's.

1174
00:54:19,520 --> 00:54:21,759
Speaker 3: All been revealed. I am worthless.

1175
00:54:21,880 --> 00:54:25,160
Speaker 4: There is no point, there's no point to anybody living

1176
00:54:25,239 --> 00:54:27,319
Speaker 4: much less me, whatever it is. You know, I don't

1177
00:54:27,320 --> 00:54:28,799
Speaker 4: know why I go on with this. You know, all

1178
00:54:28,840 --> 00:54:32,319
Speaker 4: of that that feels like the truth. It's a terrifying sense.

1179
00:54:32,400 --> 00:54:34,360
Speaker 1: It really is when I when I got real, I

1180
00:54:34,400 --> 00:54:36,560
Speaker 1: called I called my man, the guy that helps guide

1181
00:54:36,600 --> 00:54:39,800
Speaker 1: me through my life of sobriety, and I said, something's

1182
00:54:39,800 --> 00:54:41,400
Speaker 1: really wrong, this is happening. I was describing what was

1183
00:54:41,440 --> 00:54:44,360
Speaker 1: happening against You're really lucky, pal, but right now you

1184
00:54:44,400 --> 00:54:47,440
Speaker 1: need to see a doctor like fast. What you're describing

1185
00:54:47,480 --> 00:54:49,680
Speaker 1: as well beyond what I can help you with. And

1186
00:54:49,719 --> 00:54:52,439
Speaker 1: it's the awareness that, oh, my brain's disorting the shit

1187
00:54:52,480 --> 00:54:54,880
Speaker 1: out of this. But that's a really hard thing to

1188
00:54:54,920 --> 00:54:56,600
Speaker 1: get to for a lot of people, because why would

1189
00:54:56,600 --> 00:55:00,280
Speaker 1: you ever question the way that you were discerning every

1190
00:55:00,440 --> 00:55:03,000
Speaker 1: you know, ocular, auditory or so.

1191
00:55:03,040 --> 00:55:05,440
Speaker 3: We don't learn this at school, the things we learn

1192
00:55:05,480 --> 00:55:05,840
Speaker 3: at school.

1193
00:55:05,880 --> 00:55:08,440
Speaker 4: Sometimes I just go, I've forgotten all the capitals of

1194
00:55:08,480 --> 00:55:10,239
Speaker 4: the countries and who minds iron?

1195
00:55:10,400 --> 00:55:11,400
Speaker 3: Or but do you know what? Do you know?

1196
00:55:11,480 --> 00:55:14,360
Speaker 4: What I needed to learn is sometime in your life,

1197
00:55:14,360 --> 00:55:17,920
Speaker 4: probably you will feel like there's no point going on

1198
00:55:18,200 --> 00:55:21,680
Speaker 4: or nobody needs you, or your waste of time or

1199
00:55:21,719 --> 00:55:25,200
Speaker 4: whatever it is. And that won't be real, that will

1200
00:55:25,239 --> 00:55:29,120
Speaker 4: not be reflect the truth, but you will believe it will.

1201
00:55:29,520 --> 00:55:31,439
Speaker 3: And at that point you need to reach out for help.

1202
00:55:31,520 --> 00:55:33,839
Speaker 4: And I would like if I was if I was

1203
00:55:34,040 --> 00:55:36,279
Speaker 4: devising a curriculum for children. One of the things would

1204
00:55:36,280 --> 00:55:41,480
Speaker 4: be literally workshopping and let's okay, so you're going to

1205
00:55:41,480 --> 00:55:42,840
Speaker 4: be the person that by ring and I'm going to

1206
00:55:43,040 --> 00:55:46,040
Speaker 4: I'm feeling really depressed and sad and lonely and I

1207
00:55:46,120 --> 00:55:48,279
Speaker 4: need your help. I would workshop that and I'd have

1208
00:55:48,640 --> 00:55:51,120
Speaker 4: fake phones that they could bring on. I really do

1209
00:55:51,160 --> 00:55:56,080
Speaker 4: thinkst kids. Yeah yeah, but swim and survive in your head.

1210
00:55:56,520 --> 00:55:59,360
Speaker 4: You know, I did a workshop the other day in

1211
00:55:59,400 --> 00:56:01,640
Speaker 4: our show, so you know the show that I do,

1212
00:56:01,680 --> 00:56:05,040
Speaker 4: the Guilt Ferminis, So it's usually almost always a live show.

1213
00:56:05,280 --> 00:56:08,720
Speaker 4: We had somebody on who was talking about self defense

1214
00:56:09,920 --> 00:56:13,760
Speaker 4: and she's absolutely amazing. She's a famous self defense person

1215
00:56:13,800 --> 00:56:18,560
Speaker 4: in New Zealand, and she was teaching us to say,

1216
00:56:18,640 --> 00:56:21,239
Speaker 4: if someone touches you in public on a bus, the

1217
00:56:21,360 --> 00:56:23,240
Speaker 4: most common response is to freeze.

1218
00:56:24,080 --> 00:56:24,960
Speaker 3: Is for a woman just.

1219
00:56:24,880 --> 00:56:27,319
Speaker 4: To a freeze And now there's an evolutionary reason for that.

1220
00:56:27,640 --> 00:56:30,440
Speaker 4: If I you know, if I fight or flee, I

1221
00:56:30,520 --> 00:56:33,160
Speaker 4: might not win. If I freeze and friend or if

1222
00:56:33,200 --> 00:56:37,279
Speaker 4: I just just don't move that I might survive this.

1223
00:56:37,920 --> 00:56:41,120
Speaker 4: Now often then you're asked, well, why didn't you shout out?

1224
00:56:41,160 --> 00:56:43,239
Speaker 4: And you don't know the answer to that, but it's

1225
00:56:43,239 --> 00:56:47,520
Speaker 4: an evolutionary reason. But she said she teaches kids and

1226
00:56:47,680 --> 00:56:50,920
Speaker 4: grown ups to say. She said, she said it was

1227
00:56:50,960 --> 00:56:52,400
Speaker 4: seven year old recently.

1228
00:56:53,880 --> 00:56:54,239
Speaker 3: Was on a.

1229
00:56:54,200 --> 00:56:58,719
Speaker 4: Bus and said something like shouted out really loudly, get

1230
00:56:58,719 --> 00:57:02,239
Speaker 4: your hand off my knee, dirty old creep, And that's

1231
00:57:02,280 --> 00:57:06,000
Speaker 4: really embarrassed, right, And I said, funnily enough, I have

1232
00:57:06,040 --> 00:57:09,279
Speaker 4: a friend in London who's very posh, and she said

1233
00:57:09,280 --> 00:57:10,960
Speaker 4: one day she was on the tube, and you know

1234
00:57:11,120 --> 00:57:13,279
Speaker 4: the tube at rush hour, you can you're so up

1235
00:57:13,320 --> 00:57:16,800
Speaker 4: against people. Sometimes everyone is touching everyone, and sometimes there

1236
00:57:16,800 --> 00:57:19,000
Speaker 4: are men who take advantage of that and rub up

1237
00:57:19,040 --> 00:57:22,960
Speaker 4: against women and it's a thing. And sometimes women think, well,

1238
00:57:23,000 --> 00:57:25,440
Speaker 4: I think, you know, if I can't accuse him of this,

1239
00:57:25,480 --> 00:57:28,520
Speaker 4: because maybe he's just you know, the strain, this is

1240
00:57:28,560 --> 00:57:31,120
Speaker 4: the swaying of the train, and we're all I'm touching

1241
00:57:31,160 --> 00:57:32,960
Speaker 4: him as well, and you know, and they get really

1242
00:57:33,040 --> 00:57:35,160
Speaker 4: upset because of sexual assault, and they know they've been

1243
00:57:35,160 --> 00:57:36,640
Speaker 4: sexual assulted, and they got off the train and they

1244
00:57:36,640 --> 00:57:38,400
Speaker 4: burst into tears and they go and see.

1245
00:57:38,160 --> 00:57:40,720
Speaker 3: Someone, but the man's gone and how can they prove it?

1246
00:57:40,720 --> 00:57:45,480
Speaker 3: And all of that. And my friend said, she's she's

1247
00:57:45,560 --> 00:57:46,560
Speaker 3: quite a force to be reckoned with.

1248
00:57:46,640 --> 00:57:49,680
Speaker 4: And man did this to her and she said, I

1249
00:57:49,800 --> 00:57:53,520
Speaker 4: just really largely on this rush our tube said get

1250
00:57:53,560 --> 00:57:57,920
Speaker 4: your fucking hand off my fucking cunt. And she it's

1251
00:57:57,920 --> 00:58:01,400
Speaker 4: such a fleabag moment. And and the man, he said,

1252
00:58:01,400 --> 00:58:03,880
Speaker 4: she said, was so embarrassed and everybody stared at him,

1253
00:58:03,880 --> 00:58:05,200
Speaker 4: and she said, I really don't think he'll do it

1254
00:58:05,240 --> 00:58:09,200
Speaker 4: again because I embarrassed him. And so we rehearsed this.

1255
00:58:10,280 --> 00:58:12,160
Speaker 3: You know that. I don't know how many women were there.

1256
00:58:12,200 --> 00:58:13,880
Speaker 3: I think it was in Wellington.

1257
00:58:13,920 --> 00:58:18,160
Speaker 4: There was like a thousand people there, mostly women, and

1258
00:58:18,640 --> 00:58:20,520
Speaker 4: we just all did it together. Get I think we

1259
00:58:20,560 --> 00:58:22,439
Speaker 4: said get your fucking head off my fucking knee because

1260
00:58:22,440 --> 00:58:24,560
Speaker 4: we felt it was you know, it's.

1261
00:58:24,040 --> 00:58:25,600
Speaker 3: Often a likely thing to do or something.

1262
00:58:25,960 --> 00:58:28,360
Speaker 4: But I thought, because I thought, that's going to put

1263
00:58:28,400 --> 00:58:32,640
Speaker 4: it into us. We've rehearsed it as an army and

1264
00:58:32,720 --> 00:58:36,000
Speaker 4: your brain knows this now. Your brain goes up now.

1265
00:58:36,360 --> 00:58:38,240
Speaker 4: And I said to them, if you have frozen before

1266
00:58:38,280 --> 00:58:39,840
Speaker 4: and not said anything, it's not your fault.

1267
00:58:39,840 --> 00:58:40,800
Speaker 3: This is not a victim blame.

1268
00:58:40,960 --> 00:58:42,680
Speaker 4: If you in the future you freeze and you don't

1269
00:58:42,680 --> 00:58:44,280
Speaker 4: say anything, it is not a victim blame. This is

1270
00:58:44,320 --> 00:58:45,880
Speaker 4: not on you to be doing this. It's not on

1271
00:58:46,000 --> 00:58:51,000
Speaker 4: women to be rehearsing and practicing and you know, learning

1272
00:58:51,000 --> 00:58:54,680
Speaker 4: self defense. However, it can empower and we are entitled

1273
00:58:54,760 --> 00:58:57,560
Speaker 4: to take that, to take those rehearsal spaces if we want.

1274
00:58:57,600 --> 00:59:00,560
Speaker 4: And I wanted that, and it was fantastic because I thought,

1275
00:59:00,600 --> 00:59:02,400
Speaker 4: you know, there's going to be women. This is going

1276
00:59:02,440 --> 00:59:04,080
Speaker 4: to happen to these women in this audience. So you know,

1277
00:59:04,200 --> 00:59:07,640
Speaker 4: not everyone, I very much hope, but some, and they

1278
00:59:07,720 --> 00:59:10,960
Speaker 4: will in that moment. I think their brains may well go.

1279
00:59:11,160 --> 00:59:12,320
Speaker 3: I know this scenario.

1280
00:59:12,720 --> 00:59:15,600
Speaker 4: I've workshopped it, and I workshopped it in the middle

1281
00:59:15,640 --> 00:59:18,440
Speaker 4: of an army, and so I'll have that permission.

1282
00:59:18,960 --> 00:59:21,280
Speaker 1: WOFY came home the other day and I saw what

1283
00:59:21,360 --> 00:59:23,400
Speaker 1: you do today and he said they taught him and

1284
00:59:23,400 --> 00:59:25,600
Speaker 1: they do the stuff for daycare now. And he puts

1285
00:59:25,600 --> 00:59:28,600
Speaker 1: his hand and he goes, stop. I don't like that. Great,

1286
00:59:28,680 --> 00:59:30,200
Speaker 1: this is his hand like that stop and I like that.

1287
00:59:30,280 --> 00:59:30,720
Speaker 1: He's four.

1288
00:59:30,960 --> 00:59:33,920
Speaker 4: Yeah, fantastic stuff. I didn't have no idea, No, but

1289
00:59:34,040 --> 00:59:36,720
Speaker 4: we didn't that. We didn't No one taught us that stuff.

1290
00:59:36,880 --> 00:59:40,080
Speaker 1: You mentioned school and what we're taught what we're not taught.

1291
00:59:40,320 --> 00:59:44,000
Speaker 1: And we briefly mentioned Keith Johnston who wrote a book

1292
00:59:44,080 --> 00:59:51,600
Speaker 1: called improv impro Improvisation and there's a genius books Doubting.

1293
00:59:51,600 --> 00:59:53,640
Speaker 1: I still remember the bookshop in Brisbane and I bought

1294
00:59:53,640 --> 00:59:57,000
Speaker 1: it from when I was I don't know, sixteen or something,

1295
00:59:57,840 --> 01:00:01,120
Speaker 1: and I remember reading this paragraph because he was a teacher,

1296
01:00:01,640 --> 01:00:05,440
Speaker 1: and it broke my heart when I realized I was

1297
01:00:05,440 --> 01:00:07,520
Speaker 1: in the middle of one of these factories that turns

1298
01:00:07,600 --> 01:00:10,400
Speaker 1: rainbows into gray, which is essentially what he said. This

1299
01:00:10,440 --> 01:00:12,760
Speaker 1: is what our schooling does. It turns rainbows into just

1300
01:00:12,920 --> 01:00:17,320
Speaker 1: gray and everything becomes like blue tag essentially one thing.

1301
01:00:17,440 --> 01:00:19,080
Speaker 1: And I came to that. You know, I was in

1302
01:00:19,080 --> 01:00:20,880
Speaker 1: that space from about the age of sixteen or so,

1303
01:00:20,920 --> 01:00:22,720
Speaker 1: and it gave me a huge skill set that I

1304
01:00:22,760 --> 01:00:26,360
Speaker 1: have used throughout my career and I'm still using it now,

1305
01:00:26,400 --> 01:00:30,880
Speaker 1: which I'm very grateful for. What was it about that

1306
01:00:30,960 --> 01:00:35,880
Speaker 1: book particularly or the ideas within that spoke to you

1307
01:00:36,720 --> 01:00:39,040
Speaker 1: particularly there's.

1308
01:00:38,840 --> 01:00:42,000
Speaker 4: A chapter called Notes on Myself where he talks about

1309
01:00:42,560 --> 01:00:47,680
Speaker 4: realizing that his teachers were trying to homogenize him, or

1310
01:00:48,560 --> 01:00:52,440
Speaker 4: looking back and just rethinking ways of learning and ways

1311
01:00:52,440 --> 01:00:56,280
Speaker 4: of freeing the mind. And I got this book when

1312
01:00:56,440 --> 01:00:58,640
Speaker 4: I was in a cult and it was my secret

1313
01:00:58,680 --> 01:01:01,880
Speaker 4: second Bible, and I would I snuck off to improv classes,

1314
01:01:01,880 --> 01:01:05,920
Speaker 4: which we were not allowed to do, and I found

1315
01:01:06,120 --> 01:01:07,440
Speaker 4: ways of.

1316
01:01:09,000 --> 01:01:09,840
Speaker 3: Just releasing my mind.

1317
01:01:09,840 --> 01:01:12,280
Speaker 4: Now you can't really yes, and when you're in a

1318
01:01:12,360 --> 01:01:15,400
Speaker 4: patriarchal cult, because everything you're you know. But it was

1319
01:01:15,440 --> 01:01:17,960
Speaker 4: absolutely the antidote. When I left the Jehoah's Witnesses, I

1320
01:01:17,960 --> 01:01:20,040
Speaker 4: went straight back to improv class because the eldest found

1321
01:01:20,040 --> 01:01:21,520
Speaker 4: out when I was doing it in Brisbane and I

1322
01:01:21,560 --> 01:01:23,760
Speaker 4: got banned. But when I left, the first thing I

1323
01:01:23,760 --> 01:01:26,040
Speaker 4: did was went to improv class. And it's the antidote

1324
01:01:26,080 --> 01:01:29,160
Speaker 4: to a cult because it's what Keith's work does, is

1325
01:01:29,200 --> 01:01:30,920
Speaker 4: it teaches you how to trust your auvioence. And I

1326
01:01:31,000 --> 01:01:32,520
Speaker 4: ended up working with Keith quite a bit and with

1327
01:01:32,880 --> 01:01:35,680
Speaker 4: Patti Styles, who worked with him, and I believe Patty

1328
01:01:35,720 --> 01:01:40,960
Speaker 4: Styles is the greatest teacher of Keith's principles in the world,

1329
01:01:41,040 --> 01:01:44,480
Speaker 4: including Keith like she is such a phenomenal teacher and

1330
01:01:44,520 --> 01:01:46,880
Speaker 4: she teaches you the person Keith was great at teaching

1331
01:01:47,040 --> 01:01:50,080
Speaker 4: theory and teaching a group to find something, but she

1332
01:01:50,160 --> 01:01:53,520
Speaker 4: will teach you. She lives in Melbourne and she travels

1333
01:01:53,560 --> 01:01:55,400
Speaker 4: the world teaching. But you know, yeah, anyone who lives

1334
01:01:55,440 --> 01:01:59,680
Speaker 4: in Melbourne can work with Patty. And she taught me,

1335
01:02:00,160 --> 01:02:01,880
Speaker 4: you're obvious. She came to London and I said, right,

1336
01:02:01,960 --> 01:02:03,960
Speaker 4: I want to work with you every week for two

1337
01:02:04,000 --> 01:02:06,640
Speaker 4: sessions a week. And I was working as Annie at

1338
01:02:06,680 --> 01:02:09,320
Speaker 4: that point, and I because it was my anti don't

1339
01:02:09,320 --> 01:02:11,120
Speaker 4: talk cult, it was yes Anda, And she say, trust

1340
01:02:11,160 --> 01:02:11,560
Speaker 4: your obvious.

1341
01:02:11,560 --> 01:02:12,640
Speaker 3: Trust what's obvious to you.

1342
01:02:13,480 --> 01:02:15,480
Speaker 4: And she said, that's the only way you'll ever find

1343
01:02:15,480 --> 01:02:17,720
Speaker 4: your talent is to trust your obvious. Because most of

1344
01:02:17,720 --> 01:02:20,080
Speaker 4: the time your obvious is obvious to the audience and

1345
01:02:20,120 --> 01:02:22,439
Speaker 4: they'll go, oh, I hope that would happen. And very

1346
01:02:22,480 --> 01:02:27,160
Speaker 4: occasionally your obvious isn't obvious to anyone else until they

1347
01:02:27,200 --> 01:02:27,520
Speaker 4: see it.

1348
01:02:27,920 --> 01:02:30,080
Speaker 3: And that's your talent. You know, when you're watching a

1349
01:02:30,080 --> 01:02:32,800
Speaker 3: TV show a movie and you go, ah.

1350
01:02:32,280 --> 01:02:34,520
Speaker 4: I can't believe I did never saw this coming, but

1351
01:02:35,240 --> 01:02:38,440
Speaker 4: now it has come, it feels inevitable. That's where your

1352
01:02:38,440 --> 01:02:41,280
Speaker 4: talent is. You cannot find your talent by trying hard

1353
01:02:41,280 --> 01:02:43,640
Speaker 4: to think up good ideas. When you try hard to

1354
01:02:43,640 --> 01:02:46,680
Speaker 4: be imaginative, you end up with something that's so wacky

1355
01:02:46,800 --> 01:02:50,480
Speaker 4: that no one no one really gets it, or you

1356
01:02:50,720 --> 01:02:53,600
Speaker 4: become safe and you just recreate what you've seen before.

1357
01:02:54,000 --> 01:02:56,520
Speaker 4: Trying hard to be good is not your best strategy

1358
01:02:56,560 --> 01:03:01,600
Speaker 4: when it comes to creative work. Trusting your obvious, being

1359
01:03:01,680 --> 01:03:05,520
Speaker 4: patient with yourself, and trusting what's obvious to you, not worrying,

1360
01:03:05,560 --> 01:03:09,240
Speaker 4: oh it's too obvious. Not worrying, I'll be boring if

1361
01:03:09,240 --> 01:03:12,480
Speaker 4: I'm or I better do what I've seen other people do.

1362
01:03:12,560 --> 01:03:15,560
Speaker 4: So I do this amazing drawing exercise that I created

1363
01:03:15,560 --> 01:03:19,320
Speaker 4: out of Patty's work. Sometimes with corporates where I'll say, okay,

1364
01:03:19,640 --> 01:03:22,560
Speaker 4: go into twos. You give them, you know, colored pencils

1365
01:03:22,560 --> 01:03:24,240
Speaker 4: like you had when you're a kid, or felt tips

1366
01:03:25,080 --> 01:03:26,680
Speaker 4: and a paper, and we say okay, the two of

1367
01:03:26,680 --> 01:03:28,280
Speaker 4: you decide what you're going to draw and draw it.

1368
01:03:28,360 --> 01:03:30,120
Speaker 3: And I've had hundreds of people do this.

1369
01:03:30,680 --> 01:03:33,680
Speaker 4: I have five hundred people in an auditorium, so you're

1370
01:03:33,680 --> 01:03:36,040
Speaker 4: going to have two hundred and fifty pictures drawn in pairs.

1371
01:03:37,200 --> 01:03:38,880
Speaker 4: And I collect those in and I say, okay, now

1372
01:03:38,880 --> 01:03:41,720
Speaker 4: you're going to I say give it a title, and

1373
01:03:41,760 --> 01:03:45,600
Speaker 4: then I say okay, now another now, same group.

1374
01:03:45,800 --> 01:03:47,360
Speaker 3: Before we even talk about that, or I look at

1375
01:03:47,360 --> 01:03:49,040
Speaker 3: the pictures. I'm going to get you to do the

1376
01:03:49,080 --> 01:03:50,840
Speaker 3: exercise again, but with a different process.

1377
01:03:51,640 --> 01:03:53,840
Speaker 4: So the process this time is one of you is

1378
01:03:53,880 --> 01:03:56,760
Speaker 4: just going to draw a line squiggle and the other

1379
01:03:56,800 --> 01:03:58,120
Speaker 4: one's going to add to it. But you're not allowed

1380
01:03:58,160 --> 01:03:59,720
Speaker 4: to talk. You're not allowed to decide what you're drawing,

1381
01:04:00,520 --> 01:04:04,960
Speaker 4: and just be curious as to what the drawing is becoming.

1382
01:04:05,960 --> 01:04:08,040
Speaker 4: So you're not going to go if you see it

1383
01:04:08,040 --> 01:04:09,520
Speaker 4: and I go, oh, I can make that into a

1384
01:04:09,560 --> 01:04:11,360
Speaker 4: cat's cat's cap. Go and we're adding the ears and

1385
01:04:11,400 --> 01:04:13,960
Speaker 4: the whiskers and definitely a cat. I'm controlling this, nor

1386
01:04:13,960 --> 01:04:15,320
Speaker 4: are you going to go, I'll just do a dot

1387
01:04:15,320 --> 01:04:17,280
Speaker 4: because I don't really want to be in control. You

1388
01:04:17,360 --> 01:04:20,479
Speaker 4: are going to add as just a significant squiggle. Both

1389
01:04:20,480 --> 01:04:22,280
Speaker 4: of you are going to be curious as to what

1390
01:04:22,360 --> 01:04:24,280
Speaker 4: this is turning into. And then maybe you think it's

1391
01:04:24,280 --> 01:04:26,440
Speaker 4: a face, but the other person turns up upside down

1392
01:04:26,640 --> 01:04:28,720
Speaker 4: and sees a boat on a river, and you just

1393
01:04:28,840 --> 01:04:30,880
Speaker 4: allow it to become that. And then you're going to

1394
01:04:30,880 --> 01:04:34,040
Speaker 4: title it one letter at a time. So someone's going

1395
01:04:34,120 --> 01:04:35,600
Speaker 4: to do B A and the other one's going to

1396
01:04:35,640 --> 01:04:37,160
Speaker 4: do A, and you're going to be curious as of

1397
01:04:37,200 --> 01:04:38,919
Speaker 4: what turns it into. And you're not going to try

1398
01:04:38,920 --> 01:04:40,960
Speaker 4: and be clever and go que x ha ha ha.

1399
01:04:41,520 --> 01:04:44,120
Speaker 4: You're going to genuinely just let your brain decide what

1400
01:04:44,160 --> 01:04:46,440
Speaker 4: this is called, your hand decide what movement to do.

1401
01:04:46,960 --> 01:04:48,840
Speaker 3: You're not going to sit there for ages going oh God,

1402
01:04:48,880 --> 01:04:49,520
Speaker 3: I don't know what.

1403
01:04:49,440 --> 01:04:51,080
Speaker 4: The next move should be. You don't need to know.

1404
01:04:51,120 --> 01:04:52,920
Speaker 4: Your brain will know, your hand will know. Just let

1405
01:04:52,960 --> 01:04:53,400
Speaker 4: it happen.

1406
01:04:53,800 --> 01:04:56,200
Speaker 3: And then we look at both sets of pictures.

1407
01:04:56,680 --> 01:04:59,200
Speaker 4: And generally, if I have five hundred people two hundred

1408
01:04:59,200 --> 01:05:01,439
Speaker 4: and fifty pictures, I will get fifty.

1409
01:05:01,080 --> 01:05:03,280
Speaker 3: To seventy percent of the first one.

1410
01:05:03,680 --> 01:05:06,080
Speaker 4: I'll say, okay, this is a this is a this

1411
01:05:06,160 --> 01:05:08,760
Speaker 4: is called the house, and a picture of a house,

1412
01:05:09,120 --> 01:05:11,360
Speaker 4: and this is called home, Sweet Home. It's a picture

1413
01:05:11,400 --> 01:05:14,480
Speaker 4: of a house. This is a picture it's called it's

1414
01:05:14,520 --> 01:05:16,160
Speaker 4: called my place, and it's a picture of a house.

1415
01:05:16,200 --> 01:05:19,000
Speaker 4: And they start to laugh as I show them. And

1416
01:05:19,040 --> 01:05:21,120
Speaker 4: then you get other things as well. You get sailing boats.

1417
01:05:21,120 --> 01:05:22,880
Speaker 4: But I say, okay, this is a sailing boat, because

1418
01:05:22,920 --> 01:05:24,360
Speaker 4: you draw in the air what kind of sailing boat

1419
01:05:24,360 --> 01:05:26,400
Speaker 4: it is, and they all do the traditional one, or

1420
01:05:26,440 --> 01:05:29,000
Speaker 4: this is a cat, draw the cat that it is

1421
01:05:29,120 --> 01:05:33,040
Speaker 4: and I show them. Now generally fifty to seventy percent houses,

1422
01:05:33,080 --> 01:05:34,800
Speaker 4: and then I can know the other categories.

1423
01:05:34,800 --> 01:05:36,840
Speaker 3: I know what they're going to be. And I say,

1424
01:05:36,880 --> 01:05:39,920
Speaker 3: you've not done anything wrong. I asked you draw a

1425
01:05:39,960 --> 01:05:41,720
Speaker 3: picture to side on what it was, and you've drawn it.

1426
01:05:41,760 --> 01:05:43,479
Speaker 3: There's nothing wrong. You've not done anything wrong.

1427
01:05:43,520 --> 01:05:46,280
Speaker 4: But it's just very interesting that when I ask you

1428
01:05:46,360 --> 01:05:48,400
Speaker 4: to do this, just seems like a creative actor drawing,

1429
01:05:48,440 --> 01:05:49,080
Speaker 4: doesn't it.

1430
01:05:49,120 --> 01:05:49,800
Speaker 3: But it isn't.

1431
01:05:49,920 --> 01:05:52,520
Speaker 4: Most of the time it's a memory act. People go,

1432
01:05:52,600 --> 01:05:55,000
Speaker 4: what's the safe drawing? They don't know that they're doing that,

1433
01:05:55,040 --> 01:05:55,680
Speaker 4: but they're going.

1434
01:05:55,480 --> 01:05:57,919
Speaker 3: What can't we fuck up? Well, won't reveal anything about us?

1435
01:05:58,080 --> 01:05:58,880
Speaker 3: What's correct?

1436
01:05:59,560 --> 01:06:01,800
Speaker 4: And on what I say, it's interesting, it's not your house,

1437
01:06:01,880 --> 01:06:04,960
Speaker 4: it's that house. And generally there's smoke coming out of

1438
01:06:05,000 --> 01:06:06,520
Speaker 4: the chimney and a great big sun in the sky.

1439
01:06:06,880 --> 01:06:09,760
Speaker 4: And I don't know about you, but I rarely like

1440
01:06:09,800 --> 01:06:12,080
Speaker 4: my fire when there's a great big sun in the sky.

1441
01:06:12,200 --> 01:06:14,880
Speaker 4: So one of those is redundant. And very few people

1442
01:06:14,920 --> 01:06:17,760
Speaker 4: have working fireplaces anymore anyway, So this is not a

1443
01:06:17,800 --> 01:06:20,920
Speaker 4: picture of a house. It's a picture of a picture.

1444
01:06:22,000 --> 01:06:23,800
Speaker 4: So it's not a creative act. But then we look

1445
01:06:23,800 --> 01:06:26,080
Speaker 4: at the second lot, which they've done before. We've talked

1446
01:06:26,120 --> 01:06:29,800
Speaker 4: about process just with they just look like a totally

1447
01:06:29,840 --> 01:06:33,280
Speaker 4: different group of people. They've just used a different process.

1448
01:06:33,760 --> 01:06:37,320
Speaker 4: These pictures are so imaginative. They're big, they take up

1449
01:06:37,360 --> 01:06:41,760
Speaker 4: the whole page. They're swirling, they've got action. They're surprising,

1450
01:06:42,320 --> 01:06:45,880
Speaker 4: and the titles are surprising. The titles are Barry the

1451
01:06:45,960 --> 01:06:48,360
Speaker 4: rocket Bat, you know, and you know stuff like that,

1452
01:06:48,400 --> 01:06:50,400
Speaker 4: and you go and it is a rocket bat and

1453
01:06:50,440 --> 01:06:51,920
Speaker 4: you've never seen a rocket bat before.

1454
01:06:52,080 --> 01:06:53,000
Speaker 3: And I can predict.

1455
01:06:53,160 --> 01:06:55,040
Speaker 4: Usually I have a slide or something where I show

1456
01:06:55,400 --> 01:06:57,760
Speaker 4: the prediction of the first drawings.

1457
01:06:57,680 --> 01:07:00,240
Speaker 3: And I cannot predict. No person in the the world

1458
01:07:00,280 --> 01:07:01,800
Speaker 3: could predict Barry the rocket Bat.

1459
01:07:02,200 --> 01:07:06,880
Speaker 4: And or you know, Paradise Lost, you know, Lost for

1460
01:07:07,000 --> 01:07:08,920
Speaker 4: Jenny or something like that, and you just go, oh

1461
01:07:08,920 --> 01:07:11,480
Speaker 4: my god, paradis Lost for Jenny's an incredible work of

1462
01:07:11,800 --> 01:07:14,400
Speaker 4: you know, the yearning of desire of where these people

1463
01:07:14,480 --> 01:07:17,200
Speaker 4: want to be, or you know, it's just so imaginative

1464
01:07:17,240 --> 01:07:19,320
Speaker 4: and so joyful, and they can't believe it. They can't

1465
01:07:19,360 --> 01:07:20,960
Speaker 4: believe they're the same group. And I get them to

1466
01:07:21,000 --> 01:07:22,880
Speaker 4: look and walk around the room afterwards, and look at

1467
01:07:22,880 --> 01:07:25,880
Speaker 4: these pictures, and the first lot look like people who

1468
01:07:25,920 --> 01:07:28,040
Speaker 4: I'm not good at, are I can't draw. And the

1469
01:07:28,080 --> 01:07:30,760
Speaker 4: second lot look like some of them look like they

1470
01:07:30,800 --> 01:07:33,080
Speaker 4: could be hanging in the tate. Some of them look

1471
01:07:33,560 --> 01:07:37,720
Speaker 4: just like children, genuinely amountined of children's drawings. But they

1472
01:07:37,840 --> 01:07:40,520
Speaker 4: all are unpredictable in the second lot. And that's what's

1473
01:07:40,520 --> 01:07:42,960
Speaker 4: fascinating to me. And all we've done is change process.

1474
01:07:43,080 --> 01:07:44,880
Speaker 4: These are not different people who've been through a six

1475
01:07:44,920 --> 01:07:48,040
Speaker 4: week program. These are people who have activated a different

1476
01:07:48,080 --> 01:07:51,320
Speaker 4: part of their brain. And I just love this stuff

1477
01:07:51,360 --> 01:07:55,520
Speaker 4: because that's what freed me from a cult. I had

1478
01:07:55,520 --> 01:07:57,720
Speaker 4: a little piece of it that's made me survive in

1479
01:07:57,760 --> 01:07:59,280
Speaker 4: a cult. I used to read that book over and

1480
01:07:59,360 --> 01:08:01,680
Speaker 4: over again when I was in a very very patriarchal cult.

1481
01:08:01,680 --> 01:08:04,440
Speaker 4: Women make no decisions, women are not believed the we're

1482
01:08:04,440 --> 01:08:06,439
Speaker 4: not listened to, and that was my outlet, and I'd

1483
01:08:06,440 --> 01:08:09,200
Speaker 4: make up little stories from the book, little poems and

1484
01:08:09,240 --> 01:08:11,080
Speaker 4: stuff the way Keith taught me to do stuff on

1485
01:08:11,120 --> 01:08:14,400
Speaker 4: my own, and would find little ways of having these

1486
01:08:14,440 --> 01:08:17,920
Speaker 4: outlets within the organization or outside of it. And then

1487
01:08:18,479 --> 01:08:22,680
Speaker 4: when I left, I put myself through a self made program.

1488
01:08:23,680 --> 01:08:25,200
Speaker 4: I didn't know that's what I was doing, but it

1489
01:08:25,240 --> 01:08:29,720
Speaker 4: was a cult deprogramming that I did for myself, and

1490
01:08:29,800 --> 01:08:32,519
Speaker 4: now it's really everything I do is based on that.

1491
01:08:32,880 --> 01:08:36,479
Speaker 4: Podcasting is just starting a sentence confidently assuming your brain

1492
01:08:36,520 --> 01:08:37,120
Speaker 4: will finish it.

1493
01:08:37,680 --> 01:08:39,680
Speaker 3: That's all it ever can be. It's just, you know,

1494
01:08:39,720 --> 01:08:41,240
Speaker 3: I'm on stage. I don't know what I'm going to say.

1495
01:08:41,280 --> 01:08:43,040
Speaker 4: I ask someone in the audience what they do, or

1496
01:08:43,080 --> 01:08:45,800
Speaker 4: if they have a feminist job, or man in the

1497
01:08:45,800 --> 01:08:47,599
Speaker 4: front row puts his hand up and I go, if

1498
01:08:47,640 --> 01:08:49,960
Speaker 4: you ever been before? No, do you call yourself a feminist?

1499
01:08:50,000 --> 01:08:53,519
Speaker 4: I'm not sure and we start having an interaction. Everything

1500
01:08:53,560 --> 01:08:58,480
Speaker 4: I can do is because of Keith and Patty, everything screenwriting, storytelling,

1501
01:08:59,080 --> 01:09:02,639
Speaker 4: helping other people come to life with you know, start

1502
01:09:02,640 --> 01:09:04,400
Speaker 4: associating with different parts of their brain andbody.

1503
01:09:04,439 --> 01:09:06,400
Speaker 3: Everything I can do is because of that.

1504
01:09:06,640 --> 01:09:11,519
Speaker 1: What I loved about that, and as you mentioned that example,

1505
01:09:11,600 --> 01:09:17,320
Speaker 1: it's an ability to access all manner of very confronting

1506
01:09:18,120 --> 01:09:22,519
Speaker 1: improv introduction theater exercises for people who would never stand

1507
01:09:22,560 --> 01:09:24,599
Speaker 1: on stage or speak out loud. It is the same

1508
01:09:24,640 --> 01:09:27,000
Speaker 1: bits of the brain that you're trusting will be okay

1509
01:09:27,040 --> 01:09:29,880
Speaker 1: with this moment. And what I also loved. Like you've

1510
01:09:29,960 --> 01:09:34,599
Speaker 1: just simply described, there is the authentic yet habitual self.

1511
01:09:34,840 --> 01:09:38,040
Speaker 1: There it is, And here's another part of your brain

1512
01:09:38,920 --> 01:09:40,960
Speaker 1: is there, and you get to ask the questions like,

1513
01:09:41,360 --> 01:09:43,639
Speaker 1: what would this bridsheets, what would you know quarter three

1514
01:09:43,680 --> 01:09:45,559
Speaker 1: look like if the ideas came out of this bit

1515
01:09:45,600 --> 01:09:47,280
Speaker 1: of your brain rather than this thing which is what

1516
01:09:47,280 --> 01:09:50,679
Speaker 1: we all think should happen. You know, where's the possibility there?

1517
01:09:51,000 --> 01:09:54,760
Speaker 1: And that's very much extraordinary, very much so.

1518
01:09:55,200 --> 01:09:59,320
Speaker 4: And also we could ask another question, is quarter three

1519
01:10:00,160 --> 01:10:05,599
Speaker 4: profits where you want to focus the energy of your

1520
01:10:05,640 --> 01:10:09,719
Speaker 4: one wild and impossibly.

1521
01:10:11,400 --> 01:10:14,320
Speaker 3: Every birth is so random.

1522
01:10:14,400 --> 01:10:16,760
Speaker 4: It's just like, you know, if you'd conceived one second later,

1523
01:10:16,960 --> 01:10:19,160
Speaker 4: it might be a totally different person. So you've got

1524
01:10:19,160 --> 01:10:21,439
Speaker 4: one wild and precious life. As they say, I don't

1525
01:10:21,439 --> 01:10:24,479
Speaker 4: know who that's a quote from, but somebody. And we

1526
01:10:24,520 --> 01:10:27,960
Speaker 4: spend so much of it in pursuit many people spend

1527
01:10:28,120 --> 01:10:30,960
Speaker 4: it in the pursuit of a totally made up concept,

1528
01:10:31,000 --> 01:10:34,240
Speaker 4: which is money. Money is invented, it's made up, and yet.

1529
01:10:34,120 --> 01:10:35,320
Speaker 3: People are exploited for it.

1530
01:10:35,880 --> 01:10:40,960
Speaker 4: Human dignity, human possibility, all the you know, probably most

1531
01:10:41,000 --> 01:10:42,280
Speaker 4: of the people are the best actors in the world,

1532
01:10:42,320 --> 01:10:44,080
Speaker 4: the best writer in the world. The people that are

1533
01:10:44,080 --> 01:10:46,919
Speaker 4: most likely to be able to cure cancer are working

1534
01:10:47,160 --> 01:10:51,960
Speaker 4: and living in the most deeply deprived and degrading circumstances.

1535
01:10:52,040 --> 01:10:53,680
Speaker 3: Will never meet them.

1536
01:10:53,920 --> 01:10:56,080
Speaker 4: Nobody has any empathy for them, or if they do,

1537
01:10:56,160 --> 01:10:58,800
Speaker 4: they can't do anything to change their their lot in

1538
01:10:59,040 --> 01:11:03,160
Speaker 4: what could be called life that they're living. We exploit

1539
01:11:03,280 --> 01:11:06,320
Speaker 4: people for a made up concept. We exploit animals for

1540
01:11:06,360 --> 01:11:09,519
Speaker 4: a made up concept, and we live our own lives

1541
01:11:09,640 --> 01:11:15,559
Speaker 4: as if they are somehow eternal when they're so really,

1542
01:11:15,600 --> 01:11:22,479
Speaker 4: so finite. In pursuit of this absolutely made up concept,

1543
01:11:22,720 --> 01:11:23,920
Speaker 4: we fight wars over it.

1544
01:11:24,360 --> 01:11:26,080
Speaker 3: What it's not real.

1545
01:11:26,680 --> 01:11:28,519
Speaker 4: It was just a thing where it was like, if

1546
01:11:28,520 --> 01:11:32,040
Speaker 4: I give you two sheep for this one bale of hay, Okay,

1547
01:11:32,080 --> 01:11:33,280
Speaker 4: well I don't have the two sheep here?

1548
01:11:33,280 --> 01:11:35,240
Speaker 3: Can I give you this? Iou that's what money is.

1549
01:11:35,360 --> 01:11:36,439
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's just an agreement.

1550
01:11:36,720 --> 01:11:38,559
Speaker 3: It's just an agreement. And the fact that we were

1551
01:11:38,600 --> 01:11:41,280
Speaker 3: trading sheep is probably absolutely shit. Poor sheep. They have

1552
01:11:41,360 --> 01:11:42,559
Speaker 3: their own sentients as well.

1553
01:11:42,800 --> 01:11:45,000
Speaker 4: But you know what I mean, it's just so fucking

1554
01:11:45,000 --> 01:11:48,920
Speaker 4: made up, and yet we spend our whole life. For

1555
01:11:49,040 --> 01:11:52,559
Speaker 4: many people, it's just you know, a desperate lurch from

1556
01:11:52,560 --> 01:11:56,320
Speaker 4: one paycheck to the next. But when people are rich,

1557
01:11:56,680 --> 01:11:59,160
Speaker 4: it's a sport who can accrue the most, just like

1558
01:11:59,160 --> 01:12:02,439
Speaker 4: a golf handicap. And I'm just like, we are fucked up.

1559
01:12:02,439 --> 01:12:03,679
Speaker 4: We are not a well society.

1560
01:12:04,280 --> 01:12:06,120
Speaker 1: If people like are listening to you and they're like,

1561
01:12:06,960 --> 01:12:09,679
Speaker 1: either I've been in a similar kind of religious upbringing

1562
01:12:09,800 --> 01:12:12,400
Speaker 1: or they can hear the like I would love to

1563
01:12:12,400 --> 01:12:14,280
Speaker 1: be a person that can start a sentence confidently and

1564
01:12:14,280 --> 01:12:17,720
Speaker 1: not knowing how it's going to end. It's what's the

1565
01:12:17,760 --> 01:12:19,840
Speaker 1: thing you could say to them about how to even

1566
01:12:19,840 --> 01:12:23,000
Speaker 1: just start starting to explore because we're all born with that.

1567
01:12:23,439 --> 01:12:25,439
Speaker 1: What would you say to them about how you could

1568
01:12:25,439 --> 01:12:27,160
Speaker 1: even start to explore that in themselves.

1569
01:12:28,360 --> 01:12:32,240
Speaker 4: So in prov class, actually if it's a good one,

1570
01:12:32,840 --> 01:12:34,960
Speaker 4: if it's a bad one, it can actually make it worse.

1571
01:12:35,040 --> 01:12:35,960
Speaker 3: That's what Keith always said.

1572
01:12:35,960 --> 01:12:37,880
Speaker 4: Bad teachers and good teachers are not dealing in the

1573
01:12:37,880 --> 01:12:41,759
Speaker 4: same commodity, in different different levels. It's or different quantities.

1574
01:12:41,760 --> 01:12:44,880
Speaker 4: They're dealing in opposite quantities. They're they're dealing rather in

1575
01:12:44,920 --> 01:12:49,280
Speaker 4: opposite forces. But a good improv class, a good art

1576
01:12:49,280 --> 01:12:53,040
Speaker 4: class Keith Keith's book that you refer to inpro.

1577
01:12:53,920 --> 01:12:56,880
Speaker 3: Some of the languages a little dated, but the concepts

1578
01:12:56,880 --> 01:12:58,360
Speaker 3: in it are unbelievable.

1579
01:12:59,040 --> 01:13:01,960
Speaker 4: Patty's got a book, well, Pattistas has got a book

1580
01:13:01,960 --> 01:13:04,639
Speaker 4: about improvisation. I've got a book called The Improv Handbook

1581
01:13:04,640 --> 01:13:07,640
Speaker 4: that I wrote with my husband that's very popular. And

1582
01:13:07,840 --> 01:13:09,360
Speaker 4: you can start with those and you don't even need

1583
01:13:09,360 --> 01:13:11,600
Speaker 4: to go to improv class. You could just free yourself

1584
01:13:12,000 --> 01:13:15,400
Speaker 4: and start doing exercises like those drawing exercises, or writing

1585
01:13:15,439 --> 01:13:17,559
Speaker 4: a letter one word at a time or one letter

1586
01:13:17,560 --> 01:13:17,960
Speaker 4: at a time.

1587
01:13:18,040 --> 01:13:18,679
Speaker 3: Things like that.

1588
01:13:19,560 --> 01:13:22,120
Speaker 4: You can play with your kids. You can open yourself up.

1589
01:13:22,560 --> 01:13:26,000
Speaker 4: And I would say on the money front, a very

1590
01:13:26,040 --> 01:13:27,920
Speaker 4: rich man once told me there are three things you

1591
01:13:27,960 --> 01:13:33,320
Speaker 4: can buy with money, security, experience, and status. Most people

1592
01:13:33,320 --> 01:13:38,080
Speaker 4: spend all their money on security and status, so security

1593
01:13:38,120 --> 01:13:40,040
Speaker 4: and one thing can be three things. You know, you

1594
01:13:40,080 --> 01:13:43,280
Speaker 4: can buy a house, and that's security, obviously, but also

1595
01:13:43,320 --> 01:13:45,479
Speaker 4: you can buy a house that you know, if you've

1596
01:13:45,479 --> 01:13:48,479
Speaker 4: got a lot of money, that's also enables experience.

1597
01:13:48,520 --> 01:13:49,360
Speaker 3: You can buy a house.

1598
01:13:49,200 --> 01:13:50,920
Speaker 1: That has a couple of gold lines out at the front.

1599
01:13:50,960 --> 01:13:52,320
Speaker 1: Check me out, how's my status?

1600
01:13:52,400 --> 01:13:54,600
Speaker 4: Well that state, yes, yeah, there's a hell of a

1601
01:13:54,640 --> 01:13:57,400
Speaker 4: lot of I'm in Sydney at the moment, and there's

1602
01:13:57,439 --> 01:13:59,599
Speaker 4: a hell of a lot of houses that are also

1603
01:13:59,640 --> 01:14:01,960
Speaker 4: stated their security and they also status, but some of

1604
01:14:01,960 --> 01:14:04,920
Speaker 4: them are also trying to facilitate an experience instead of

1605
01:14:05,000 --> 01:14:05,960
Speaker 4: showing off to the neighbors.

1606
01:14:05,960 --> 01:14:06,479
Speaker 3: What I've got.

1607
01:14:07,000 --> 01:14:09,840
Speaker 4: I've got a you know, back garden that's got you know,

1608
01:14:09,920 --> 01:14:13,200
Speaker 4: a lovely you know, lovely pond in it where I

1609
01:14:13,200 --> 01:14:14,880
Speaker 4: sit and meditate. No one can see it but me,

1610
01:14:14,960 --> 01:14:17,640
Speaker 4: but I I really you know, that's my thing that

1611
01:14:17,640 --> 01:14:19,519
Speaker 4: I have. Or I have a swing that I don't

1612
01:14:19,520 --> 01:14:21,479
Speaker 4: have any kids, but I love to sit and swing.

1613
01:14:21,280 --> 01:14:21,840
Speaker 3: Or whatever it is.

1614
01:14:21,880 --> 01:14:24,680
Speaker 4: You know, you can make one thing three things, but

1615
01:14:24,760 --> 01:14:27,080
Speaker 4: a lot of people spend their money on security, like

1616
01:14:27,200 --> 01:14:29,920
Speaker 4: banking for the future, you know, houses and you know,

1617
01:14:30,080 --> 01:14:34,679
Speaker 4: funds and status, my car that other people will will want,

1618
01:14:35,280 --> 01:14:37,080
Speaker 4: whether it's really something that's going to give me a

1619
01:14:37,080 --> 01:14:38,160
Speaker 4: lot of pleasure, it's just.

1620
01:14:38,240 --> 01:14:39,920
Speaker 3: More you know, most people.

1621
01:14:39,960 --> 01:14:42,439
Speaker 4: It's true also that you know, for the first week

1622
01:14:42,520 --> 01:14:44,880
Speaker 4: you've bought yourself a you know, I don't know, what's

1623
01:14:44,920 --> 01:14:46,360
Speaker 4: what's a fancy sports card.

1624
01:14:46,120 --> 01:14:48,799
Speaker 1: You like, say you've got your Ferrari or a Lambeau.

1625
01:14:49,360 --> 01:14:52,240
Speaker 1: It's just an issue v But yeah, head situation, especially.

1626
01:14:51,920 --> 01:14:54,160
Speaker 4: Talking about you know, Week one it's oh my god,

1627
01:14:54,160 --> 01:14:56,080
Speaker 4: I've got a Ferrari, and my Week six it's just

1628
01:14:56,120 --> 01:15:01,800
Speaker 4: your car. But experience is for human beings. The most

1629
01:15:02,240 --> 01:15:04,839
Speaker 4: well study show. Once you've got a certain amount of security,

1630
01:15:04,880 --> 01:15:08,680
Speaker 4: of course, the most valuable thing you can buy. You know,

1631
01:15:08,720 --> 01:15:12,080
Speaker 4: there's very little that you can go and buy that's

1632
01:15:12,120 --> 01:15:13,920
Speaker 4: going to mean a lot to you on your deathbed.

1633
01:15:14,680 --> 01:15:17,360
Speaker 4: You know, you can buy brand new Gucci handbag every year.

1634
01:15:17,680 --> 01:15:19,200
Speaker 4: I don't think you're going to be thinking about you

1635
01:15:19,240 --> 01:15:22,200
Speaker 4: Gucci handbag election. They'll fall apart, you've given them away,

1636
01:15:22,240 --> 01:15:26,320
Speaker 4: they become last season. All of that experience, what did

1637
01:15:26,360 --> 01:15:29,439
Speaker 4: you do with the people you love? To find connection,

1638
01:15:29,640 --> 01:15:32,200
Speaker 4: to build and even the idea of building memories I

1639
01:15:32,200 --> 01:15:34,400
Speaker 4: find a bit weird. It's sort of like, oh, bank

1640
01:15:34,520 --> 01:15:38,760
Speaker 4: something for the past. But it's about the connection that

1641
01:15:38,880 --> 01:15:42,519
Speaker 4: you're building so that as you get older, you have

1642
01:15:42,600 --> 01:15:46,519
Speaker 4: these serious, deep connections that you can't have when you're

1643
01:15:46,840 --> 01:15:50,120
Speaker 4: younger because they're not bedded in as much that have

1644
01:15:50,280 --> 01:15:53,680
Speaker 4: lasted a lifetime. And part of that, of course is

1645
01:15:53,880 --> 01:15:56,080
Speaker 4: the memory of the things you've done. But when I

1646
01:15:56,439 --> 01:16:00,400
Speaker 4: hear people saying I'm making memories. I'm like, still not

1647
01:16:00,439 --> 01:16:05,080
Speaker 4: in the now. Still you're still in in Morocco buying

1648
01:16:05,080 --> 01:16:07,519
Speaker 4: fridge magnets so that later you can look back on this,

1649
01:16:07,600 --> 01:16:10,080
Speaker 4: And I'm like, we're worried about the future, or we're

1650
01:16:10,080 --> 01:16:13,439
Speaker 4: thinking about the past and in regret or I wish

1651
01:16:13,439 --> 01:16:16,120
Speaker 4: I were there now. The greatest thing you'll ever learn

1652
01:16:16,520 --> 01:16:21,080
Speaker 4: is to build something now for the now, because there

1653
01:16:21,120 --> 01:16:22,719
Speaker 4: might not be another hour.

1654
01:16:23,160 --> 01:16:24,120
Speaker 1: Oh no, but.

1655
01:16:24,200 --> 01:16:27,000
Speaker 4: Build something that will make the If there is another hour,

1656
01:16:27,200 --> 01:16:29,679
Speaker 4: we'll make that next how better that next year, ten years,

1657
01:16:29,720 --> 01:16:33,360
Speaker 4: twenty years. You're building something now for your next now,

1658
01:16:33,720 --> 01:16:36,120
Speaker 4: for being in the now, for first just being here,

1659
01:16:36,320 --> 01:16:37,040
Speaker 4: being here enough.

1660
01:16:38,000 --> 01:16:40,560
Speaker 3: But if you sit and scroll.

1661
01:16:40,280 --> 01:16:44,240
Speaker 4: Now, which can feel like, oh, just get my brain

1662
01:16:44,680 --> 01:16:47,200
Speaker 4: off the fact that the world is a difficult place

1663
01:16:47,240 --> 01:16:51,160
Speaker 4: and in many ways getting scarier, and you know, or

1664
01:16:51,240 --> 01:16:55,679
Speaker 4: whatever stops me having to bother, you're not building anything

1665
01:16:56,120 --> 01:16:59,880
Speaker 4: for the now in ten years time. So it's the now,

1666
01:17:00,120 --> 01:17:02,799
Speaker 4: the building for the next now. Those are the things

1667
01:17:03,520 --> 01:17:07,639
Speaker 4: that I think if you have access to time and

1668
01:17:08,000 --> 01:17:10,360
Speaker 4: even a small amount of money where you can invest

1669
01:17:10,400 --> 01:17:13,880
Speaker 4: in something other than just food and shelter, those are

1670
01:17:13,880 --> 01:17:14,640
Speaker 4: the things.

1671
01:17:15,200 --> 01:17:16,680
Speaker 1: I wouldn't want people to get turned off with the

1672
01:17:16,680 --> 01:17:19,000
Speaker 1: idea of like either you know, grabbing your book or

1673
01:17:19,120 --> 01:17:21,120
Speaker 1: grabbing something the other books you've read. Because it's not

1674
01:17:21,240 --> 01:17:24,840
Speaker 1: like we want not luck. We're talking about you need

1675
01:17:24,840 --> 01:17:26,800
Speaker 1: to study these things so you can go and do

1676
01:17:26,840 --> 01:17:28,680
Speaker 1: it in proze.

1677
01:17:28,160 --> 01:17:30,960
Speaker 4: No, it is so you can improvise with your kids

1678
01:17:30,960 --> 01:17:32,920
Speaker 4: in the moment, be in the moment, just be with

1679
01:17:32,960 --> 01:17:33,479
Speaker 4: your friends.

1680
01:17:33,600 --> 01:17:35,519
Speaker 1: Or it's a way of using your brain that we

1681
01:17:35,520 --> 01:17:37,920
Speaker 1: weren't taught how to use. It is a way of

1682
01:17:38,000 --> 01:17:40,160
Speaker 1: using our brain that in fact, we have always known

1683
01:17:40,200 --> 01:17:43,639
Speaker 1: how to use, but was literally beaten out of us

1684
01:17:43,840 --> 01:17:46,240
Speaker 1: through the schooling system that we went to. And how

1685
01:17:46,240 --> 01:17:47,479
Speaker 1: many ideas are we missing?

1686
01:17:47,600 --> 01:17:49,400
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, I've met a lot of people that can't draw,

1687
01:17:49,520 --> 01:17:52,599
Speaker 4: but none of them was seven, not fu One seven

1688
01:17:52,680 --> 01:17:54,960
Speaker 4: year old says I can't draw. I've met a lot

1689
01:17:54,960 --> 01:17:57,160
Speaker 4: of people that can't that can't act, But I have

1690
01:17:57,360 --> 01:18:00,800
Speaker 4: never seen two children who were going, Okay, I'll be

1691
01:18:00,840 --> 01:18:04,840
Speaker 4: the bad guy and you be the policeman. Go go.

1692
01:18:04,960 --> 01:18:06,280
Speaker 4: I don't think I'm a very good policeman.

1693
01:18:06,400 --> 01:18:08,280
Speaker 3: I just I don't know. I need to research my character.

1694
01:18:08,560 --> 01:18:11,080
Speaker 4: Yes, you know, I've met a lot of people who

1695
01:18:11,080 --> 01:18:13,640
Speaker 4: can't sing, but none of them are four. And so

1696
01:18:13,880 --> 01:18:16,480
Speaker 4: you know, we we become more and more and more inhibited.

1697
01:18:16,880 --> 01:18:19,160
Speaker 4: And one thing I do if I do drawing exercises

1698
01:18:19,160 --> 01:18:23,679
Speaker 4: in the corporate world, is I say, take these pictures

1699
01:18:23,680 --> 01:18:25,519
Speaker 4: home that you've drawn and put them on the fridge.

1700
01:18:26,000 --> 01:18:28,720
Speaker 4: Because when you were seven, you thought your drawings were

1701
01:18:28,760 --> 01:18:30,720
Speaker 4: so good they should be on the fridge. You were like,

1702
01:18:30,880 --> 01:18:33,719
Speaker 4: this is great, put it up. So either your drawing

1703
01:18:33,760 --> 01:18:37,200
Speaker 4: has got worse or your embarrassment threshold has gone up.

1704
01:18:37,200 --> 01:18:39,599
Speaker 4: There's only two explanations there. And I bet your motor

1705
01:18:39,600 --> 01:18:41,920
Speaker 4: skills have improved. I bet you can draw better now

1706
01:18:42,200 --> 01:18:43,320
Speaker 4: I mean better, what is better?

1707
01:18:43,320 --> 01:18:45,200
Speaker 1: But you know my pen license, Thank you very much.

1708
01:18:45,400 --> 01:18:46,320
Speaker 3: There you go, there you go.

1709
01:18:46,920 --> 01:18:49,479
Speaker 4: There are people who will display their drawings. And you

1710
01:18:49,520 --> 01:18:52,880
Speaker 4: know those people are the people that we've exceptionalized in

1711
01:18:52,880 --> 01:18:56,040
Speaker 4: our society. And we've said you're allowed to be the drawers,

1712
01:18:56,360 --> 01:18:58,600
Speaker 4: You're allowed to be the dancers, You're allowed to be

1713
01:18:58,600 --> 01:19:01,040
Speaker 4: the singers because you are best at what do you

1714
01:19:01,040 --> 01:19:04,880
Speaker 4: know what cultured people have to do in the Western world.

1715
01:19:06,040 --> 01:19:10,160
Speaker 4: They have to watch dancing, they have to listen to singing,

1716
01:19:10,640 --> 01:19:13,719
Speaker 4: they have to look at paintings, they have to watch plays.

1717
01:19:14,640 --> 01:19:17,320
Speaker 4: If you're a cultured person in our society, you have

1718
01:19:17,400 --> 01:19:20,400
Speaker 4: to sit and consume or stand and look.

1719
01:19:20,920 --> 01:19:21,760
Speaker 3: That's what you have to do.

1720
01:19:21,800 --> 01:19:23,479
Speaker 4: You don't have to draw, you don't have to dance,

1721
01:19:23,560 --> 01:19:25,080
Speaker 4: you don't have to paint, you don't have to sing,

1722
01:19:25,240 --> 01:19:26,280
Speaker 4: you don't have to.

1723
01:19:26,000 --> 01:19:28,000
Speaker 3: To do anything. You just have to go.

1724
01:19:28,720 --> 01:19:30,960
Speaker 4: Did you see did you see the Verdie at the

1725
01:19:31,080 --> 01:19:33,120
Speaker 4: at the Opera House this year? It was really marvelous,

1726
01:19:33,120 --> 01:19:35,160
Speaker 4: really really marvelous, And I really, I really think, I

1727
01:19:35,200 --> 01:19:37,599
Speaker 4: really think that's the young soprano has got a lot

1728
01:19:37,640 --> 01:19:38,919
Speaker 4: of a lot of promise.

1729
01:19:39,479 --> 01:19:41,519
Speaker 3: Oh did you actually did you go down and see

1730
01:19:41,520 --> 01:19:41,880
Speaker 3: the Climp?

1731
01:19:42,280 --> 01:19:44,960
Speaker 4: It was a really interesting exhibition actually, and I think,

1732
01:19:45,000 --> 01:19:46,720
Speaker 4: I think, I think it was.

1733
01:19:46,760 --> 01:19:47,320
Speaker 1: It was really.

1734
01:19:47,240 --> 01:19:51,120
Speaker 3: Interesting, you know, actually thinking about the the the the the.

1735
01:19:51,000 --> 01:19:55,559
Speaker 4: Advancement of Climp through his through his work, different, totally

1736
01:19:55,680 --> 01:19:57,559
Speaker 4: so different at the end of his career.

1737
01:19:57,720 --> 01:19:59,160
Speaker 3: That's what culture people have to do.

1738
01:19:59,560 --> 01:20:03,479
Speaker 4: But if you look at more ancient civilizations, or if

1739
01:20:03,520 --> 01:20:09,880
Speaker 4: you look at more indigenous people and communities, generally, the

1740
01:20:09,920 --> 01:20:12,680
Speaker 4: way that human beings have evolved, we all used to

1741
01:20:12,800 --> 01:20:14,640
Speaker 4: dance and sing together, we all used to paint, and

1742
01:20:14,720 --> 01:20:16,559
Speaker 4: there are some societies in which if you are not

1743
01:20:16,600 --> 01:20:19,120
Speaker 4: an artist, you were said to be depressed, sort of like, oh,

1744
01:20:19,640 --> 01:20:21,799
Speaker 4: he's not he's not joining in, he's not he's not painting,

1745
01:20:21,880 --> 01:20:23,600
Speaker 4: or he's not drawing in the sand, or he's not

1746
01:20:23,800 --> 01:20:25,519
Speaker 4: you know, dancing, or he's not doing this or that.

1747
01:20:25,680 --> 01:20:27,560
Speaker 3: The oh yeah, no, we don't talk about that. And

1748
01:20:27,600 --> 01:20:28,560
Speaker 3: this is is really sad, you know.

1749
01:20:28,600 --> 01:20:30,800
Speaker 4: It's sort of like that's a that's a that's a thing,

1750
01:20:30,920 --> 01:20:35,280
Speaker 4: you know. And so the idea that we can just

1751
01:20:35,439 --> 01:20:38,360
Speaker 4: look and then die, listen and then die, that's that's

1752
01:20:38,400 --> 01:20:41,800
Speaker 4: that's what we're trained to do. Unless and I see

1753
01:20:41,800 --> 01:20:44,559
Speaker 4: this all the time again in the corporates, they do

1754
01:20:44,640 --> 01:20:46,559
Speaker 4: the karaoke and you know, it's sort of like, oh,

1755
01:20:46,560 --> 01:20:49,280
Speaker 4: the person who's actually quite good singer that sang at school,

1756
01:20:49,320 --> 01:20:51,680
Speaker 4: did one one musical before they went into the corporate world.

1757
01:20:51,720 --> 01:20:52,559
Speaker 3: They go and take the mic.

1758
01:20:52,960 --> 01:20:56,800
Speaker 4: If it's the tennis, you know, the corporate tennis championship,

1759
01:20:56,800 --> 01:20:58,960
Speaker 4: the people that are actually quite good at tennis go

1760
01:20:59,000 --> 01:21:02,040
Speaker 4: and do that. If it's baking, oh so, actually I'm

1761
01:21:02,080 --> 01:21:03,720
Speaker 4: quite good at that. And so we only want to

1762
01:21:03,720 --> 01:21:05,760
Speaker 4: do as grown ups. We've already decided what we're bad

1763
01:21:05,760 --> 01:21:07,800
Speaker 4: and what we're good at. We only want to have

1764
01:21:07,840 --> 01:21:10,639
Speaker 4: gooes that things we're good at. And I see totally

1765
01:21:10,640 --> 01:21:12,639
Speaker 4: different with children. If I sometimes do this thing called

1766
01:21:12,640 --> 01:21:14,519
Speaker 4: comedy club for kids, it's just basically stand ups doing

1767
01:21:14,560 --> 01:21:17,280
Speaker 4: comedy that they think kids will like. And if I

1768
01:21:17,320 --> 01:21:19,240
Speaker 4: am see it, I always go, who who'd like to

1769
01:21:19,240 --> 01:21:21,200
Speaker 4: do some stand up comedy? And you know what happened,

1770
01:21:21,320 --> 01:21:24,760
Speaker 4: Every single child in that audience go yes, me, me, me, me, me,

1771
01:21:24,760 --> 01:21:27,760
Speaker 4: me me. If you ask a group of grown ups

1772
01:21:27,800 --> 01:21:29,200
Speaker 4: at a stand up club who'd like to have a go,

1773
01:21:29,280 --> 01:21:31,320
Speaker 4: they'll be everyone. I look at the floor, everyone be like,

1774
01:21:31,360 --> 01:21:32,720
Speaker 4: oh my god, they're gonna pick on someone, They're gonna

1775
01:21:32,720 --> 01:21:34,800
Speaker 4: make them do a stand up comedy. And because we

1776
01:21:34,840 --> 01:21:37,479
Speaker 4: don't as grown ups, and I see this if I

1777
01:21:37,720 --> 01:21:39,080
Speaker 4: you know, I used to teach improv a lot. I

1778
01:21:39,080 --> 01:21:40,800
Speaker 4: don't have time anymore, but I used to see this

1779
01:21:40,880 --> 01:21:43,800
Speaker 4: a lot. Grown ups only want to have goes that

1780
01:21:43,840 --> 01:21:46,040
Speaker 4: things we're good at. Otherwise we want to sit back.

1781
01:21:46,040 --> 01:21:47,920
Speaker 4: If we think we'd be really good at this, we'll volunteer.

1782
01:21:47,960 --> 01:21:51,040
Speaker 4: Otherwise we want to sit back watch someone else do it,

1783
01:21:51,640 --> 01:21:53,840
Speaker 4: assess from our seats whether we'd be any good at it.

1784
01:21:54,000 --> 01:21:57,320
Speaker 4: If we think we would succeed then and only then

1785
01:21:57,400 --> 01:22:01,559
Speaker 4: do we want to go. Children have a different metric

1786
01:22:01,640 --> 01:22:05,040
Speaker 4: for success. Grown ups want to have one perfect go

1787
01:22:05,280 --> 01:22:06,960
Speaker 4: and then ideally don't have another go because it might

1788
01:22:06,960 --> 01:22:09,800
Speaker 4: have been beginner's luck. Children want to have lots of goals,

1789
01:22:09,960 --> 01:22:11,760
Speaker 4: and that's their metric for success. And I see it

1790
01:22:11,800 --> 01:22:14,559
Speaker 4: with improv kids. Will I've had literally had a kid

1791
01:22:14,560 --> 01:22:16,519
Speaker 4: say to me, I had four guys and Joey and

1792
01:22:16,520 --> 01:22:20,479
Speaker 4: her three gs, so slight. Yeah, how many goals can

1793
01:22:20,520 --> 01:22:22,360
Speaker 4: I get? How many goes can I get? They're not

1794
01:22:22,439 --> 01:22:24,479
Speaker 4: interested in the quality of anyone go Now, we all

1795
01:22:24,520 --> 01:22:26,639
Speaker 4: know our chances for success go up with more goals

1796
01:22:26,640 --> 01:22:29,000
Speaker 4: because we've all been to a fairground and if it's

1797
01:22:29,040 --> 01:22:31,759
Speaker 4: a coconut shy where it's four goes for a dollar

1798
01:22:32,439 --> 01:22:33,960
Speaker 4: and there's one which is one go for a dollar,

1799
01:22:34,000 --> 01:22:35,680
Speaker 4: four goes for a dollar, because we've got we've got

1800
01:22:35,680 --> 01:22:37,880
Speaker 4: more of a chance of knocking it off and winning

1801
01:22:37,920 --> 01:22:40,880
Speaker 4: a daddy with four goes. And we all know that

1802
01:22:40,960 --> 01:22:43,719
Speaker 4: the first go wildly off because your balls way lighter

1803
01:22:43,760 --> 01:22:44,400
Speaker 4: than thought it was.

1804
01:22:44,400 --> 01:22:46,360
Speaker 3: It's much further away. If we're going to get it,

1805
01:22:46,360 --> 01:22:47,760
Speaker 3: it's probably going to be on the fourth.

1806
01:22:47,520 --> 01:22:50,600
Speaker 4: Go or if you go to a fair ground with

1807
01:22:50,640 --> 01:22:52,479
Speaker 4: some of the men I've gone to your twenty seventh

1808
01:22:52,520 --> 01:22:54,519
Speaker 4: go because you won't leave until you've got the teddy.

1809
01:22:55,000 --> 01:22:57,559
Speaker 4: But that that is Our chances go up the more

1810
01:22:57,600 --> 01:23:00,280
Speaker 4: we do it. But if it's an opportunity, you know,

1811
01:23:00,320 --> 01:23:02,679
Speaker 4: to get up in a I don't know, corporate workshop

1812
01:23:02,760 --> 01:23:04,320
Speaker 4: and have a go in front of your colleagues that

1813
01:23:04,439 --> 01:23:08,120
Speaker 4: trying presenting skills, oh my god, one go or four goes?

1814
01:23:08,200 --> 01:23:10,439
Speaker 4: Definitely only one and only if I have to, because

1815
01:23:10,439 --> 01:23:12,040
Speaker 4: I don't want to fail in front of my colleagues.

1816
01:23:13,320 --> 01:23:15,920
Speaker 4: If it's children, four goes, how many goes?

1817
01:23:15,920 --> 01:23:16,280
Speaker 1: Can I have?

1818
01:23:16,360 --> 01:23:19,960
Speaker 3: Five? And that's the bit we've lost, and we've got

1819
01:23:19,960 --> 01:23:20,400
Speaker 3: to get.

1820
01:23:20,200 --> 01:23:22,280
Speaker 1: It back because there's a thing in our brains, and

1821
01:23:22,280 --> 01:23:25,400
Speaker 1: certainly as I'm turned fifty the other day, and certainly

1822
01:23:25,400 --> 01:23:30,360
Speaker 1: as we get older, the word pruning, neural pruning terrifying words,

1823
01:23:30,680 --> 01:23:32,920
Speaker 1: basically your brain going, we don't use that bit anymore,

1824
01:23:33,439 --> 01:23:38,040
Speaker 1: gone forever right. It is in learning new skills and

1825
01:23:38,120 --> 01:23:40,880
Speaker 1: learning new things that keeps not only our brains young,

1826
01:23:40,960 --> 01:23:44,439
Speaker 1: but also have vitality there. I wonder if it's because

1827
01:23:44,439 --> 01:23:46,280
Speaker 1: the kids are actually getting a rush when they're in

1828
01:23:46,280 --> 01:23:48,320
Speaker 1: that learning space. If they are so young that their

1829
01:23:48,320 --> 01:23:51,000
Speaker 1: brains are feel the explosion of growth in their heads

1830
01:23:51,000 --> 01:23:52,840
Speaker 1: when they go. We might just be so used to it.

1831
01:23:52,880 --> 01:23:55,679
Speaker 1: But it isn't learning that there is true joy. I think.

1832
01:23:55,760 --> 01:24:00,920
Speaker 4: I think it's that we teach children metric of good

1833
01:24:01,000 --> 01:24:04,120
Speaker 4: or bad, failure or success when they're small and they

1834
01:24:04,160 --> 01:24:05,439
Speaker 4: just want to have a go at getting up at

1835
01:24:05,479 --> 01:24:07,960
Speaker 4: the comedy club and having a go at it. They've

1836
01:24:07,960 --> 01:24:12,240
Speaker 4: not yet learned self censorship. We teach them in school

1837
01:24:12,280 --> 01:24:14,160
Speaker 4: that wasn't a very good high jump, or this isn't

1838
01:24:14,160 --> 01:24:16,160
Speaker 4: a very good picture. This is you know, you've not

1839
01:24:16,200 --> 01:24:20,200
Speaker 4: done the perspective correctly, and we obviously do it in

1840
01:24:20,240 --> 01:24:24,920
Speaker 4: a way that doesn't help them search towards skill, but

1841
01:24:25,000 --> 01:24:27,519
Speaker 4: it shows them that they themselves are good or bad

1842
01:24:27,520 --> 01:24:29,880
Speaker 4: at art, good or bad at high jump. And then

1843
01:24:29,920 --> 01:24:33,080
Speaker 4: it becomes about am I good at high jump?

1844
01:24:33,280 --> 01:24:33,360
Speaker 2: Not?

1845
01:24:34,080 --> 01:24:37,080
Speaker 4: Can we as a class learn the best process to

1846
01:24:37,160 --> 01:24:39,720
Speaker 4: jump over a stick? And that's what I find in

1847
01:24:39,760 --> 01:24:42,320
Speaker 4: improv class. The way I would teach is that, I mean,

1848
01:24:42,320 --> 01:24:44,040
Speaker 4: I learned this all from Keith and Patty by watching

1849
01:24:44,080 --> 01:24:49,759
Speaker 4: how they taught, really, but I consciously developed and loved

1850
01:24:49,840 --> 01:24:54,599
Speaker 4: doing it. There's a problem to be solved here. We're

1851
01:24:54,640 --> 01:24:58,280
Speaker 4: going to treat it like scientists putting, you know, different

1852
01:24:58,360 --> 01:25:03,920
Speaker 4: chemicals in a Bunsen burn a beaker. Whatss how are

1853
01:25:03,920 --> 01:25:06,840
Speaker 4: we going to get to the best process for this

1854
01:25:06,960 --> 01:25:10,280
Speaker 4: kind of skill that we're learning together. So people would

1855
01:25:10,320 --> 01:25:12,120
Speaker 4: jump up, go I think I've got it, and there

1856
01:25:12,160 --> 01:25:13,720
Speaker 4: would be this curiosity.

1857
01:25:13,240 --> 01:25:14,360
Speaker 3: In the class. I'm going to have a go at this.

1858
01:25:14,479 --> 01:25:14,920
Speaker 3: Does that mean?

1859
01:25:15,000 --> 01:25:17,840
Speaker 4: Oh, what do we learned from that? This works? This

1860
01:25:17,880 --> 01:25:19,760
Speaker 4: is when we got bored of the scene. Okay, has

1861
01:25:19,800 --> 01:25:22,519
Speaker 4: somebody else now we know that? Can someone else have

1862
01:25:22,560 --> 01:25:24,439
Speaker 4: a go at that and see if we can discover

1863
01:25:24,600 --> 01:25:27,320
Speaker 4: anything else. So the group and I would always say

1864
01:25:27,320 --> 01:25:29,559
Speaker 4: to them at the beginning, what we're looking for is

1865
01:25:29,560 --> 01:25:32,400
Speaker 4: a high level of failure. Otherwise, if we have a

1866
01:25:32,439 --> 01:25:35,160
Speaker 4: high level of success from the beginning, I'm not teaching anything.

1867
01:25:35,760 --> 01:25:37,839
Speaker 3: The exercise isn't hard enough for this group.

1868
01:25:38,360 --> 01:25:39,960
Speaker 4: So at the beginning we're looking for a high level

1869
01:25:39,960 --> 01:25:41,439
Speaker 4: of failure. At the end, we're looking for a high

1870
01:25:41,520 --> 01:25:43,720
Speaker 4: level of success. And if we don't have a high

1871
01:25:43,760 --> 01:25:45,479
Speaker 4: level of success at the end, I'm not a very

1872
01:25:45,479 --> 01:25:46,719
Speaker 4: good teacher of this exercise.

1873
01:25:47,120 --> 01:25:50,880
Speaker 3: It's with you guys, Yeah, it's not. It hasn't. It hasn't.

1874
01:25:51,040 --> 01:25:53,479
Speaker 4: If at the beginning of my class everyone can do

1875
01:25:53,520 --> 01:25:58,519
Speaker 4: everything very well, I've not assessed what how, what level

1876
01:25:59,040 --> 01:26:01,519
Speaker 4: we're at. So we're looking for a high level of

1877
01:26:02,120 --> 01:26:05,000
Speaker 4: not being very good at doing this kind of character

1878
01:26:05,080 --> 01:26:08,519
Speaker 4: work or you know, transaction within a scene. High level

1879
01:26:08,520 --> 01:26:12,240
Speaker 4: of failure. Then we're exploring together, peeling off layers of

1880
01:26:12,280 --> 01:26:14,519
Speaker 4: our that works, Oh, that doesn't work, Okay, now I've

1881
01:26:14,560 --> 01:26:16,679
Speaker 4: got it. Okay, Okay, we're going to do this, and

1882
01:26:16,680 --> 01:26:18,800
Speaker 4: now we've found a new thing that we need to learn.

1883
01:26:19,160 --> 01:26:21,040
Speaker 3: And at the end of the workshop.

1884
01:26:20,960 --> 01:26:23,160
Speaker 4: The whole group should be having a high level of

1885
01:26:23,200 --> 01:26:28,000
Speaker 4: success because now together we've found something we can't do

1886
01:26:29,080 --> 01:26:31,040
Speaker 4: and we've found new ways of being able to do it,

1887
01:26:31,080 --> 01:26:32,559
Speaker 4: so now we can do it very well.

1888
01:26:32,720 --> 01:26:35,280
Speaker 3: And that is all on me. I'm the only one

1889
01:26:35,280 --> 01:26:35,920
Speaker 3: that should.

1890
01:26:35,640 --> 01:26:38,559
Speaker 4: Be nervous, But I'm a better teacher if I'm not nervous,

1891
01:26:38,560 --> 01:26:41,760
Speaker 4: so I guess I won't be. But no student in

1892
01:26:41,800 --> 01:26:44,560
Speaker 4: any class should be nervous. It's a teacher's job to

1893
01:26:44,600 --> 01:26:46,360
Speaker 4: find something you can't do and show you how to

1894
01:26:46,400 --> 01:26:49,640
Speaker 4: do it, and if you don't respond well to the

1895
01:26:49,680 --> 01:26:51,439
Speaker 4: way i'm showing it to you, or the way I'm

1896
01:26:51,479 --> 01:26:52,479
Speaker 4: revealing this to you.

1897
01:26:53,280 --> 01:26:55,920
Speaker 3: I'm not a good teacher for you. And I used

1898
01:26:55,920 --> 01:26:56,200
Speaker 3: to say this.

1899
01:26:56,240 --> 01:26:58,200
Speaker 4: I used to teach it rather I used to which

1900
01:26:58,280 --> 01:27:00,680
Speaker 4: is the British nider. That's the thing that I used

1901
01:27:00,680 --> 01:27:04,840
Speaker 4: to say at the beginning is always like, if you

1902
01:27:05,080 --> 01:27:08,120
Speaker 4: find that you are very highly successful at everything I

1903
01:27:08,160 --> 01:27:11,519
Speaker 4: show you all the time, you're always good in this class.

1904
01:27:11,600 --> 01:27:14,479
Speaker 4: Everyone always goes, oh, that was an amazing scene. I'm

1905
01:27:14,520 --> 01:27:16,840
Speaker 4: not a good teacher for you because you are only

1906
01:27:16,880 --> 01:27:22,360
Speaker 4: able to demonstrate what you were already good at. If

1907
01:27:22,600 --> 01:27:24,600
Speaker 4: you continue to have a high level of failure in

1908
01:27:24,600 --> 01:27:26,320
Speaker 4: this class, you just can't quite get it, and you

1909
01:27:26,360 --> 01:27:28,639
Speaker 4: never really feel satisfied by a scene and the audience

1910
01:27:28,680 --> 01:27:31,040
Speaker 4: that seems very interested in your work. I'm not the

1911
01:27:31,120 --> 01:27:34,479
Speaker 4: right teacher for you because I can't find something you

1912
01:27:34,479 --> 01:27:36,439
Speaker 4: can't do and show you how to do it, or

1913
01:27:36,439 --> 01:27:40,800
Speaker 4: get you to experience experientially find that yourself. It can

1914
01:27:40,840 --> 01:27:43,840
Speaker 4: only be my fault if you're always good, or it's

1915
01:27:43,880 --> 01:27:44,439
Speaker 4: always a.

1916
01:27:44,360 --> 01:27:46,320
Speaker 3: Bit dull and frustrating.

1917
01:27:46,800 --> 01:27:49,320
Speaker 4: It cannot be your fault because all you need to

1918
01:27:49,320 --> 01:27:53,440
Speaker 4: do is come with curiosity and engagement and willingness.

1919
01:27:53,040 --> 01:27:53,519
Speaker 3: To have gooes.

1920
01:27:53,760 --> 01:27:56,559
Speaker 4: That's your only job. And so we used to get

1921
01:27:56,560 --> 01:27:58,599
Speaker 4: everyone shout at the beginning of the class. We suck

1922
01:27:58,760 --> 01:27:59,719
Speaker 4: and we love to fail.

1923
01:28:00,160 --> 01:28:02,439
Speaker 3: To get people into that space of I'm just gonna

1924
01:28:02,800 --> 01:28:04,000
Speaker 3: I'm just going to go up there.

1925
01:28:04,520 --> 01:28:07,920
Speaker 4: It really helps everyone kind of release, stop trying so

1926
01:28:07,960 --> 01:28:10,720
Speaker 4: hard to be good. Just go out, go out to

1927
01:28:10,840 --> 01:28:12,799
Speaker 4: have goes and be curious.

1928
01:28:13,680 --> 01:28:16,599
Speaker 1: I think that right there, even though it does fit

1929
01:28:16,640 --> 01:28:19,720
Speaker 1: on a coffee cup, I think that's the answer to

1930
01:28:19,760 --> 01:28:22,160
Speaker 1: the question that I was asked before. If people listening

1931
01:28:22,439 --> 01:28:23,840
Speaker 1: and they're trying to find a little bit of what

1932
01:28:23,880 --> 01:28:27,879
Speaker 1: it is that you've got, just have goes and be curious,

1933
01:28:28,080 --> 01:28:32,000
Speaker 1: lots of go and understand that failure is the only

1934
01:28:32,040 --> 01:28:34,640
Speaker 1: way to get there. And this whole you mentioned it.

1935
01:28:35,080 --> 01:28:35,559
Speaker 3: Can be fun.

1936
01:28:36,240 --> 01:28:39,600
Speaker 4: It can be so fun if you don't if you

1937
01:28:39,680 --> 01:28:44,479
Speaker 4: don't wait it with self esteem, if you just go.

1938
01:28:45,040 --> 01:28:48,160
Speaker 4: Keith said once that he went to move to the

1939
01:28:48,320 --> 01:28:50,080
Speaker 4: Canada because there was such censorship in the UK you

1940
01:28:50,080 --> 01:28:52,280
Speaker 4: wanted to It was illegal to improvise on stage in

1941
01:28:52,320 --> 01:28:55,400
Speaker 4: the sixties new Tastic because the Lord Chamberlain couldn't censor

1942
01:28:55,479 --> 01:28:58,280
Speaker 4: it beforehand, and so he moved to Canada, got a

1943
01:28:58,320 --> 01:28:59,960
Speaker 4: job in Canada where you could improvise on stage.

1944
01:29:00,080 --> 01:29:01,720
Speaker 3: He was a professor.

1945
01:29:01,360 --> 01:29:04,240
Speaker 4: At a university in Calgary, and he said he decided

1946
01:29:04,280 --> 01:29:06,080
Speaker 4: he was still a relative young man, decided to take

1947
01:29:06,120 --> 01:29:07,000
Speaker 4: up the unicycle.

1948
01:29:07,479 --> 01:29:10,760
Speaker 3: Yes, And he said he just tried and tried. I thought,

1949
01:29:10,840 --> 01:29:12,559
Speaker 3: I'm absolutely terrible this. I can't do this.

1950
01:29:12,600 --> 01:29:16,360
Speaker 4: And then another guy there, who obviously knew some circus skills, set, oh,

1951
01:29:16,400 --> 01:29:20,280
Speaker 4: it'll take you twenty hours to learn a unicycle before

1952
01:29:20,320 --> 01:29:22,599
Speaker 4: you you know you can stay upright in any meaningful

1953
01:29:22,600 --> 01:29:24,639
Speaker 4: way to get to get you know, okay at it.

1954
01:29:25,200 --> 01:29:26,240
Speaker 3: And he said, oh, I thought, well.

1955
01:29:26,160 --> 01:29:30,080
Speaker 4: I can do twenty hours knowing it will take twenty hours,

1956
01:29:30,160 --> 01:29:32,800
Speaker 4: rather than beating yourself up because you're not good in

1957
01:29:32,840 --> 01:29:35,439
Speaker 4: our five that's how you take it. If I want

1958
01:29:35,439 --> 01:29:38,479
Speaker 4: to be good at tennis, I'm shit at tennis, absolutely terrible.

1959
01:29:38,840 --> 01:29:40,360
Speaker 4: But if I want to get good at tennis, how

1960
01:29:40,360 --> 01:29:42,160
Speaker 4: many hours do I have to do before I can

1961
01:29:42,200 --> 01:29:44,640
Speaker 4: have a decent rally. That is the only question you

1962
01:29:44,680 --> 01:29:48,080
Speaker 4: need to ask yourself. And if you it might be

1963
01:29:48,160 --> 01:29:49,560
Speaker 4: twenty hours, might be a hundred hours, might be a

1964
01:29:49,560 --> 01:29:49,960
Speaker 4: thousand hours.

1965
01:29:49,960 --> 01:29:51,280
Speaker 3: Dolls a manner just going to.

1966
01:29:51,280 --> 01:29:54,160
Speaker 4: Have lots of goes until and enjoy being bad. That's

1967
01:29:54,200 --> 01:29:56,200
Speaker 4: what Keith said to me once. I was really I

1968
01:29:56,240 --> 01:29:57,960
Speaker 4: got to a really good space of the way Provz

1969
01:29:58,320 --> 01:30:01,680
Speaker 4: our company got really good and having such success, and

1970
01:30:01,720 --> 01:30:05,360
Speaker 4: then something happened, disappointment with a TV format or something,

1971
01:30:05,400 --> 01:30:07,160
Speaker 4: and we got hit a bad patch where we were

1972
01:30:07,280 --> 01:30:09,760
Speaker 4: just I thought we were being dull and not fun.

1973
01:30:09,840 --> 01:30:11,800
Speaker 3: The audience weren't really enjoying it. We weren't really enjoying it.

1974
01:30:12,160 --> 01:30:14,320
Speaker 4: I said, Keith, you and watch us when he's in London.

1975
01:30:14,640 --> 01:30:16,360
Speaker 4: He tell us what's going on. And he watched and

1976
01:30:16,400 --> 01:30:19,519
Speaker 4: he went, it's not enough to be okay with failure.

1977
01:30:19,680 --> 01:30:23,639
Speaker 4: You've got to enjoy being bad. And that's right. Next

1978
01:30:23,640 --> 01:30:24,679
Speaker 4: time we go up, we're going.

1979
01:30:24,600 --> 01:30:27,439
Speaker 3: To enjoy that. This is this is a boring show.

1980
01:30:28,360 --> 01:30:30,800
Speaker 3: Instantly we were having the time of our lives. The

1981
01:30:30,840 --> 01:30:35,240
Speaker 3: audience were roaring and laughter. Enjoy being bad. That's that's

1982
01:30:35,240 --> 01:30:36,160
Speaker 3: a that's a thing.

1983
01:30:37,240 --> 01:30:39,360
Speaker 1: Ah, you're too good. I'm going to go and sit

1984
01:30:39,400 --> 01:30:42,400
Speaker 1: and watch I'm going to watch some art. I'm going

1985
01:30:42,400 --> 01:30:44,439
Speaker 1: to watch a classic art and mellow player which I've

1986
01:30:44,479 --> 01:30:48,840
Speaker 1: never seen. Salesman, I know, Anthony Opalia, Jonathan Lapalia's brother,

1987
01:30:49,520 --> 01:30:55,200
Speaker 1: big survivor fan, and you're going to go watch a big, gigantic, bombastic,

1988
01:30:55,920 --> 01:30:58,880
Speaker 1: super exciting, blockbustery film with the cheese played.

1989
01:30:59,000 --> 01:31:02,880
Speaker 4: I am my niece lives in Sydney and I'm on

1990
01:31:03,000 --> 01:31:06,080
Speaker 4: tour and I've been writing a very head heavy book

1991
01:31:06,479 --> 01:31:08,679
Speaker 4: and some scripts and this is my one day off.

1992
01:31:08,840 --> 01:31:10,920
Speaker 4: And I said to her, would it be cool if

1993
01:31:10,920 --> 01:31:11,960
Speaker 4: we went to see The Fall Guy?

1994
01:31:12,560 --> 01:31:13,440
Speaker 2: Yeah?

1995
01:31:13,520 --> 01:31:15,880
Speaker 4: It's such a It's like a big, you know, like

1996
01:31:15,960 --> 01:31:17,960
Speaker 4: falling down movie, and I'm just like, I think that's

1997
01:31:17,960 --> 01:31:18,320
Speaker 4: what I need.

1998
01:31:18,360 --> 01:31:21,200
Speaker 1: I'm about to change your live yea, because the only

1999
01:31:21,200 --> 01:31:23,920
Speaker 1: reason I knew four Guy was even in Sydney. I

2000
01:31:24,040 --> 01:31:29,320
Speaker 1: follow probably the greatest ever cinema, cinematography, cinematographic. I follow

2001
01:31:29,360 --> 01:31:33,840
Speaker 1: probably the greatest ever film. Helicopter Pilot Alive. Nice a

2002
01:31:33,880 --> 01:31:37,200
Speaker 1: guy by the name of Fred North. He was here

2003
01:31:37,240 --> 01:31:41,360
Speaker 1: in Sydney for like two days and follow him on

2004
01:31:41,360 --> 01:31:45,200
Speaker 1: Instagram and you will see some shit. So when you're

2005
01:31:45,240 --> 01:31:48,639
Speaker 1: watching four Guy, you'd be like, that's Fred. What Whenever

2006
01:31:48,680 --> 01:31:50,759
Speaker 1: you see a helicopter in a Michael Bay, maybe flying

2007
01:31:50,800 --> 01:31:52,920
Speaker 1: under the seventh Street bridge in the La River, that's Fred.

2008
01:31:53,680 --> 01:31:56,280
Speaker 1: But he's doing it sideways and backwards so he can

2009
01:31:56,280 --> 01:31:59,880
Speaker 1: film the other two helicopters, like whatever, I'd be terrified.

2010
01:31:59,880 --> 01:32:02,200
Speaker 1: Whatever the hero copters are doing. He's doing it kind

2011
01:32:02,200 --> 01:32:04,559
Speaker 1: of side because he's got to keep his wash out back.

2012
01:32:04,680 --> 01:32:08,240
Speaker 1: He's fucking unbelievable. It's a nuts and it's going to

2013
01:32:08,280 --> 01:32:09,599
Speaker 1: be great. You're the best.

2014
01:32:09,640 --> 01:32:13,040
Speaker 4: Thank you, thank you, really really really really good fun

2015
01:32:13,080 --> 01:32:13,840
Speaker 4: to come and talk to you.

2016
01:32:15,400 --> 01:32:18,719
Speaker 1: And that was Deborah Francis White. We were actually speaking

2017
01:32:18,760 --> 01:32:21,040
Speaker 1: afterwards once I stopped rolling and we were doing a

2018
01:32:21,040 --> 01:32:24,520
Speaker 1: bit of reverse engineering. There's a very very high possibility,

2019
01:32:24,920 --> 01:32:29,840
Speaker 1: very close to completely absolutely probable that, yes, Deborah and

2020
01:32:29,920 --> 01:32:34,000
Speaker 1: I we learned theater sports at the same place, in

2021
01:32:34,040 --> 01:32:36,760
Speaker 1: the same theater, in the same era, with the same

2022
01:32:36,800 --> 01:32:40,760
Speaker 1: people at the same time. There's even a chance that

2023
01:32:40,800 --> 01:32:43,200
Speaker 1: she and I competed against each other. Who knows it

2024
01:32:43,240 --> 01:32:46,840
Speaker 1: was nineteen ninety, but she was probably a part of

2025
01:32:46,840 --> 01:32:50,200
Speaker 1: the cohort of the impossibly talented because I went to

2026
01:32:50,240 --> 01:32:52,680
Speaker 1: an all boys school and like, I didn't know who

2027
01:32:53,120 --> 01:32:58,080
Speaker 1: like these unbelievably talented theater girls blew my mind. Yeah,

2028
01:32:58,160 --> 01:33:02,080
Speaker 1: they still do a cue today, still a possible fame

2029
01:33:02,160 --> 01:33:05,360
Speaker 1: a theater person, But yeah, it could have happened. I

2030
01:33:05,400 --> 01:33:10,880
Speaker 1: don't know. She's got a fantastic book. The podcast is great.

2031
01:33:10,920 --> 01:33:12,439
Speaker 1: I'll put all that stuff in the show notes as

2032
01:33:12,439 --> 01:33:13,880
Speaker 1: well as I'll try and find links to the other

2033
01:33:13,880 --> 01:33:16,120
Speaker 1: books that we spoke about. If you haven't read the

2034
01:33:16,160 --> 01:33:17,640
Speaker 1: main book that we chadded about, a book called The

2035
01:33:17,640 --> 01:33:22,040
Speaker 1: impro Hold on Your Hats. You heard how it changed

2036
01:33:22,360 --> 01:33:24,840
Speaker 1: her life. It's a book that certainly changed my life.

2037
01:33:25,960 --> 01:33:28,719
Speaker 1: It is one of the most important books that you'll

2038
01:33:28,720 --> 01:33:33,280
Speaker 1: ever read. And this is not to say if you're

2039
01:33:33,280 --> 01:33:35,519
Speaker 1: not we don't want to be an improv theater nerd.

2040
01:33:35,600 --> 01:33:39,720
Speaker 1: That is okay, It's not about that. It's basically about like,

2041
01:33:39,840 --> 01:33:42,479
Speaker 1: we arrive in school with a brain that looks like

2042
01:33:43,160 --> 01:33:47,200
Speaker 1: sixteen hundred color box of coloring pencils, and we leave

2043
01:33:47,280 --> 01:33:51,800
Speaker 1: high school with one gray HB pencil and that's how

2044
01:33:51,840 --> 01:33:54,960
Speaker 1: we're supposed to create our life with this thing. But

2045
01:33:55,000 --> 01:33:57,240
Speaker 1: the book helps us get back to that big box again.

2046
01:33:57,880 --> 01:34:02,880
Speaker 1: It's fantastic. Taxt work like anything, but it's extraordinary. I'm

2047
01:34:02,880 --> 01:34:04,759
Speaker 1: back here on Friday. I might have a few words

2048
01:34:04,880 --> 01:34:08,200
Speaker 1: after reflect on that one, but yeah, I'll see you then.

2049
01:34:09,040 --> 01:34:11,439
Speaker 1: Thanks for being a part of the show. This episode

2050
01:34:11,479 --> 01:34:14,280
Speaker 1: was brought to you by Andy mar on audio post production,

2051
01:34:14,400 --> 01:34:16,880
Speaker 1: Mikey Ward on video post production, to hied and made

2052
01:34:16,920 --> 01:34:19,840
Speaker 1: all of fantastic music. My producer is Bree Steele. My

2053
01:34:19,960 --> 01:34:23,200
Speaker 1: executive function assistant is the marvelous Moniker Chapman. For every

2054
01:34:23,240 --> 01:34:25,240
Speaker 1: episode ever, to get on the mailing list, to get

2055
01:34:25,280 --> 01:34:28,640
Speaker 1: in touch through the contact form, leave me a voicemail.

2056
01:34:28,640 --> 01:34:31,320
Speaker 1: Why don't you go to osh againsbog dot com links

2057
01:34:31,320 --> 01:34:32,840
Speaker 1: in the show notes. Thanks for listening.