1 00:00:01,360 --> 00:00:02,400 Speaker 1: Cool is it recording? 2 00:00:03,920 --> 00:00:09,000 Speaker 2: Okay, okay, Nina. In a few hours, the inquest into 3 00:00:09,000 --> 00:00:12,280 Speaker 2: William Tull's disappearance is going to resume and we're going 4 00:00:12,320 --> 00:00:15,520 Speaker 2: to be there, well you will, I'll be there. We'll 5 00:00:15,560 --> 00:00:18,759 Speaker 2: do daily reports on what's happening in court for news 6 00:00:18,800 --> 00:00:21,200 Speaker 2: dot com dot Au and we will do a full 7 00:00:21,280 --> 00:00:25,560 Speaker 2: episode of this podcast saying what's happened in court and 8 00:00:25,640 --> 00:00:28,440 Speaker 2: released on Friday evening. So that's the end of the 9 00:00:28,440 --> 00:00:32,080 Speaker 2: week's hearings. Yeah, but to make sense of what's happening, 10 00:00:32,440 --> 00:00:34,959 Speaker 2: we thought it was worth doing this bonus episode, which 11 00:00:34,960 --> 00:00:37,600 Speaker 2: is going to be short and sharp, just setting out 12 00:00:37,600 --> 00:00:40,800 Speaker 2: what this inquest is and what it's heard so far. 13 00:00:41,760 --> 00:00:44,760 Speaker 1: That's right, because it's been going on for a long time. 14 00:00:44,800 --> 00:00:48,120 Speaker 2: When did a start twenty nineteen twenty and going on 15 00:00:48,360 --> 00:00:52,560 Speaker 2: four five years. It's older than my youngest daughter, which 16 00:00:52,600 --> 00:01:01,520 Speaker 2: is extraordinary. 17 00:01:02,720 --> 00:01:05,520 Speaker 3: So where we're at now, we know that the police 18 00:01:05,560 --> 00:01:08,720 Speaker 3: suspect the foster mother. Yeah, and they've been very clear, 19 00:01:08,840 --> 00:01:10,039 Speaker 3: but they suspect the foster mother. 20 00:01:10,120 --> 00:01:12,520 Speaker 2: It's been on the front page of the newspaper saying 21 00:01:13,000 --> 00:01:15,840 Speaker 2: we have a suspect and we think we are close 22 00:01:15,840 --> 00:01:17,520 Speaker 2: to cracking this case. Yeah. 23 00:01:17,560 --> 00:01:18,840 Speaker 1: And it's been said in court as well. 24 00:01:18,840 --> 00:01:22,520 Speaker 2: They've said in court explicitly we think William's foster mother 25 00:01:23,080 --> 00:01:25,839 Speaker 2: was involved in his disappearance, and. 26 00:01:26,560 --> 00:01:28,280 Speaker 3: All of that sort of started to come out in 27 00:01:28,319 --> 00:01:31,080 Speaker 3: the media and within the courts I think about twenty twenty. 28 00:01:30,840 --> 00:01:34,759 Speaker 2: One, after the last hearing of the Indian Yes. 29 00:01:34,840 --> 00:01:37,880 Speaker 1: So we were looking back over the in quest and 30 00:01:37,880 --> 00:01:41,479 Speaker 1: what it covered, and it's a really sharp difference I think. 31 00:01:42,000 --> 00:01:45,440 Speaker 2: I think the key thing was in the context of 32 00:01:45,440 --> 00:01:47,680 Speaker 2: the fact that police are now saying they have a suspect, 33 00:01:47,760 --> 00:01:50,440 Speaker 2: and that suspect is William's foster mother. The key thing 34 00:01:50,560 --> 00:01:52,320 Speaker 2: is that if you go through the records of the 35 00:01:52,320 --> 00:01:57,480 Speaker 2: inquest to date, there's no suggestion the foster parents are suspects. 36 00:01:57,600 --> 00:01:58,880 Speaker 1: It's really not framed that way. 37 00:01:59,000 --> 00:02:03,040 Speaker 2: In fairness, the senior lawyer who's working on this inquest 38 00:02:03,200 --> 00:02:08,560 Speaker 2: said investigators have not positively identified that no relatives were 39 00:02:08,560 --> 00:02:13,200 Speaker 2: involved in William's disappearance, so he's leaving it open. But 40 00:02:13,280 --> 00:02:16,359 Speaker 2: he also said, I suspect the evidence will show that 41 00:02:16,480 --> 00:02:20,720 Speaker 2: William was likely taken, that William's disappearance was likely the 42 00:02:20,760 --> 00:02:22,560 Speaker 2: result of human intervention. 43 00:02:23,480 --> 00:02:27,040 Speaker 4: Worldwide, these cases have proven to be the most difficult 44 00:02:27,040 --> 00:02:27,519 Speaker 4: to solve. 45 00:02:27,960 --> 00:02:31,720 Speaker 2: This is counsel assisting the coroner, Gerard Craddock, sc who's 46 00:02:31,800 --> 00:02:34,880 Speaker 2: speaking at the opening of the inquest in twenty nineteen. 47 00:02:34,800 --> 00:02:38,080 Speaker 4: If William was murdered, and that's a big give so. 48 00:02:38,120 --> 00:02:40,800 Speaker 3: He said, Statistically, most murdered children turn out to have 49 00:02:40,800 --> 00:02:43,400 Speaker 3: been harmed by someone who knew them, and only very 50 00:02:43,400 --> 00:02:46,040 Speaker 3: few are harmed by strangers, and it's about maybe three 51 00:02:46,080 --> 00:02:49,560 Speaker 3: percent of cases. But he does say William might be 52 00:02:49,600 --> 00:02:50,560 Speaker 3: one of those cases. 53 00:02:50,800 --> 00:02:54,840 Speaker 4: It may be one of those rare three percent of cases. 54 00:02:55,440 --> 00:02:57,880 Speaker 3: And there's no suggestion in anything that he says or 55 00:02:57,919 --> 00:03:00,480 Speaker 3: the evidence of the inquest that he thinks will Mother 56 00:03:00,880 --> 00:03:01,760 Speaker 3: is responsible. 57 00:03:02,120 --> 00:03:05,680 Speaker 4: The offender in such primes is a sneaky, complex offender 58 00:03:05,720 --> 00:03:08,840 Speaker 4: who has hidden his or her desires for some time 59 00:03:09,480 --> 00:03:11,720 Speaker 4: and has chosen to act on those desires. 60 00:03:13,000 --> 00:03:16,160 Speaker 2: So that is strange. The police seem to be looking 61 00:03:16,160 --> 00:03:19,360 Speaker 2: at it one way, the inquest is looking at it another, 62 00:03:19,480 --> 00:03:22,679 Speaker 2: or at least they were. It's worth saying at this 63 00:03:22,720 --> 00:03:25,120 Speaker 2: point what an inquest is. An inquest is a court hearing, 64 00:03:25,160 --> 00:03:27,560 Speaker 2: but it's not a criminal court hearing. So in a 65 00:03:27,600 --> 00:03:32,720 Speaker 2: criminal court someone is found not guilty or guilty, and 66 00:03:32,760 --> 00:03:35,360 Speaker 2: the way it works is you basically have two sets 67 00:03:35,400 --> 00:03:38,960 Speaker 2: of lawyers, one prosecuting the case saying this person is guilty, 68 00:03:38,960 --> 00:03:41,400 Speaker 2: and one defending it saying this person is not guilty. 69 00:03:41,640 --> 00:03:44,800 Speaker 2: An inquest doesn't work like that at all. An inquest 70 00:03:44,880 --> 00:03:47,680 Speaker 2: is an attempt to find out what happened to somebody 71 00:03:47,760 --> 00:03:51,960 Speaker 2: who died, and it will have lawyers, but their job 72 00:03:52,080 --> 00:03:56,280 Speaker 2: is to investigate the case and represent the different people 73 00:03:56,320 --> 00:04:00,320 Speaker 2: involved in it. No one is found guilty, but the 74 00:04:00,400 --> 00:04:02,280 Speaker 2: idea is we find out what happened. 75 00:04:02,760 --> 00:04:05,120 Speaker 1: Can a coroner recommend that someone be charged. 76 00:04:05,480 --> 00:04:09,080 Speaker 2: A coroner can recommend that a case goes to the 77 00:04:09,280 --> 00:04:13,080 Speaker 2: state's director of Public Prosecutions, who will decide if someone 78 00:04:13,160 --> 00:04:15,480 Speaker 2: is charged. And I've seen that happen. You have inquests 79 00:04:15,520 --> 00:04:18,920 Speaker 2: that start it becomes pretty clear that there's a lot 80 00:04:18,920 --> 00:04:21,520 Speaker 2: of evidence against one person in the coroner says I'm 81 00:04:21,560 --> 00:04:24,320 Speaker 2: going to stop this here and refers it off for 82 00:04:24,440 --> 00:04:27,000 Speaker 2: possible charge, and then it can end up in a 83 00:04:27,040 --> 00:04:29,640 Speaker 2: criminal court with a murder trial and someone can be 84 00:04:29,680 --> 00:04:31,720 Speaker 2: found guilty. 85 00:04:38,160 --> 00:04:40,880 Speaker 1: Now, I haven't been to many. I haven't been to any. 86 00:04:40,720 --> 00:04:45,160 Speaker 2: Inquests, I'll be honest. In quests as a journalist are fascinating. 87 00:04:45,680 --> 00:04:48,480 Speaker 1: I've read through you know, findings of red through transcripts. 88 00:04:48,480 --> 00:04:51,680 Speaker 3: I've never actually been to one. There was a few 89 00:04:51,680 --> 00:04:55,520 Speaker 3: things I thought were unusual that. Yeah, and I just 90 00:04:55,520 --> 00:04:57,920 Speaker 3: wanted to run this by you because you've been to more. 91 00:04:58,240 --> 00:05:00,280 Speaker 1: It seemed to run for quite a long time. 92 00:05:00,520 --> 00:05:03,239 Speaker 2: It's run for years, and it's been really stoped start. 93 00:05:04,040 --> 00:05:08,479 Speaker 2: The inquest seemed to have finished up. Yeah, it started 94 00:05:08,520 --> 00:05:10,919 Speaker 2: in March twenty nineteen, and it seemed to stop in 95 00:05:10,960 --> 00:05:14,719 Speaker 2: October twenty twenty and the coroner at the time said 96 00:05:14,800 --> 00:05:17,520 Speaker 2: she was going to hand down her findings in June 97 00:05:17,560 --> 00:05:21,720 Speaker 2: of twenty twenty one. And then it seems like the 98 00:05:21,760 --> 00:05:25,640 Speaker 2: police shifted focus and it seems like after that point 99 00:05:25,720 --> 00:05:29,200 Speaker 2: they started looking at William's foster parents. And that is 100 00:05:29,279 --> 00:05:32,560 Speaker 2: unusual because the police and the inquest normally work closely together. 101 00:05:33,920 --> 00:05:36,320 Speaker 2: So it would be good at this hearing that's starting 102 00:05:36,320 --> 00:05:40,279 Speaker 2: today if we can have someone explain what has happened 103 00:05:40,279 --> 00:05:43,279 Speaker 2: in the years since we last had a hearing. But 104 00:05:43,400 --> 00:05:45,120 Speaker 2: we don't know if that's going to happen because we 105 00:05:45,160 --> 00:05:47,960 Speaker 2: don't know which witnesses are going to be called. I 106 00:05:48,040 --> 00:05:51,320 Speaker 2: know that lists of witnesses have been drawn up and 107 00:05:51,440 --> 00:05:54,320 Speaker 2: sent to the different lawyers involved, and I've asked to 108 00:05:54,400 --> 00:05:56,800 Speaker 2: see that list to see who is going to give evidence. 109 00:05:57,080 --> 00:05:59,720 Speaker 2: I've asked more than once and it's not been provided. 110 00:06:00,320 --> 00:06:02,840 Speaker 2: The reason they say is that that list still hasn't 111 00:06:02,880 --> 00:06:06,480 Speaker 2: been finalized. Wow, so it's still uncertain. 112 00:06:14,040 --> 00:06:17,080 Speaker 1: So the police of the inquest, they're normally working together. 113 00:06:17,279 --> 00:06:20,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, I tell you what is strange about this inquest 114 00:06:21,920 --> 00:06:25,640 Speaker 2: is who's not been called to give evidence. So three 115 00:06:25,720 --> 00:06:29,680 Speaker 2: different detectives have overseen the investigation to William's disappearance over 116 00:06:29,680 --> 00:06:32,839 Speaker 2: the past ten years. There was hands Rup, there was 117 00:06:32,880 --> 00:06:36,800 Speaker 2: Gary Jubil, and there's currently David Laidlaw. Now none of 118 00:06:36,839 --> 00:06:40,560 Speaker 2: them have been called to give evidence, and that's despite 119 00:06:41,400 --> 00:06:44,840 Speaker 2: different people asking for that to happen. So William's birth family, 120 00:06:44,880 --> 00:06:47,480 Speaker 2: William's foster family, and at least one of the other 121 00:06:47,560 --> 00:06:51,400 Speaker 2: lawyers have asked for those detectives to be called. 122 00:06:51,480 --> 00:06:53,599 Speaker 1: And that's standard in an inquest generally. 123 00:06:53,800 --> 00:06:56,280 Speaker 2: I would have thought it was almost the first witness 124 00:06:56,800 --> 00:06:59,200 Speaker 2: you call is the police officer in charge of the 125 00:06:59,200 --> 00:07:02,600 Speaker 2: investigation to say how the investigation went down. 126 00:07:02,920 --> 00:07:04,279 Speaker 1: Did they give a reasoning why? 127 00:07:04,400 --> 00:07:07,680 Speaker 2: No, hands Rup, They didn't really give a reasoning why 128 00:07:08,680 --> 00:07:10,840 Speaker 2: any of them weren't called, and you've ended up in 129 00:07:10,880 --> 00:07:14,400 Speaker 2: a strange place in that. The most senior cop who's 130 00:07:14,400 --> 00:07:16,880 Speaker 2: been called to give evidence was a detective sergeant called 131 00:07:16,920 --> 00:07:21,160 Speaker 2: Laura Beecroft. She was on the Strikeforce for about three 132 00:07:21,280 --> 00:07:24,440 Speaker 2: years out of the ten it's been running. She joined 133 00:07:24,440 --> 00:07:28,440 Speaker 2: in September twenty fifteen, the year after William went missing. Now, 134 00:07:28,440 --> 00:07:30,760 Speaker 2: I've met Laura a couple of times a long time 135 00:07:30,800 --> 00:07:33,120 Speaker 2: ago when she was working in the sex crime squad, 136 00:07:33,880 --> 00:07:38,720 Speaker 2: and she struck me as a dedicated, serious detective. But 137 00:07:38,800 --> 00:07:41,160 Speaker 2: she was only on the case for three years, and 138 00:07:41,200 --> 00:07:44,160 Speaker 2: she wasn't the boss, nor was she the second in 139 00:07:44,200 --> 00:07:47,040 Speaker 2: command of the strike force. She acted up in the 140 00:07:47,120 --> 00:07:50,360 Speaker 2: role of second in command at times, but she wasn't 141 00:07:50,360 --> 00:07:53,080 Speaker 2: in charge, So why not call her bosses? 142 00:07:54,280 --> 00:07:55,080 Speaker 4: Yeah, it was. 143 00:07:55,280 --> 00:07:56,560 Speaker 1: It was really unusual. 144 00:07:57,080 --> 00:08:01,120 Speaker 3: And there was parts of the inquest where they were 145 00:08:01,160 --> 00:08:04,960 Speaker 3: asking her questions like why do you think this decision 146 00:08:05,080 --> 00:08:05,680 Speaker 3: was made. 147 00:08:05,560 --> 00:08:08,280 Speaker 2: More than that? So she was asked why her boss, 148 00:08:08,320 --> 00:08:12,880 Speaker 2: Gary Jubilin, may have made decisions he made, and the 149 00:08:12,960 --> 00:08:15,680 Speaker 2: lawyers were arguing whether she was able to answer that, 150 00:08:15,760 --> 00:08:18,080 Speaker 2: whether she could speculate about what was going on in 151 00:08:18,120 --> 00:08:21,240 Speaker 2: Gary Jubilin's mind. But Gary Jubilin was sitting in the 152 00:08:21,360 --> 00:08:25,120 Speaker 2: room at the time, so he went to watch the 153 00:08:25,200 --> 00:08:29,360 Speaker 2: inquest as a member of the public, and she was 154 00:08:29,400 --> 00:08:32,400 Speaker 2: asked what he was thinking. She was told, you can't speculate, 155 00:08:32,440 --> 00:08:35,440 Speaker 2: and what Gary's thinking. Gary is sitting there in the room. 156 00:08:35,559 --> 00:08:38,560 Speaker 2: He has publicly said he would like to give evidence 157 00:08:39,160 --> 00:08:42,680 Speaker 2: and has been not given the opportunity to do so. 158 00:08:42,679 --> 00:08:45,480 Speaker 2: So no one is asking Gary what Gary thought, but 159 00:08:45,520 --> 00:08:47,760 Speaker 2: they're asking Laura what Gary might have thought. 160 00:08:48,000 --> 00:08:49,439 Speaker 1: Yeah, very strange. 161 00:08:50,720 --> 00:08:55,200 Speaker 2: Something else that was strange was the way it seemed 162 00:08:55,200 --> 00:08:58,520 Speaker 2: to start and stop, and you'd have hearings and then 163 00:08:58,559 --> 00:09:01,800 Speaker 2: they'd stop for months without any explanation. Now you have 164 00:09:01,920 --> 00:09:04,920 Speaker 2: looked at this recently, and you've looked at there seems 165 00:09:04,960 --> 00:09:07,960 Speaker 2: to be a kind of a correlation between when different 166 00:09:08,080 --> 00:09:10,880 Speaker 2: leads are being pursued by the inquest or different witnesses 167 00:09:10,920 --> 00:09:13,800 Speaker 2: are coming forward. And we do know in the first 168 00:09:13,800 --> 00:09:16,520 Speaker 2: couple of years the police and the inquest team were 169 00:09:16,600 --> 00:09:20,679 Speaker 2: running an investigation because you had new people coming forward 170 00:09:20,880 --> 00:09:23,600 Speaker 2: we'd never heard about before, and the police and the 171 00:09:23,600 --> 00:09:25,320 Speaker 2: inquest seem to be working together. 172 00:09:25,760 --> 00:09:28,160 Speaker 3: Yes, they definitely did, and you can see the correlation 173 00:09:28,280 --> 00:09:32,079 Speaker 3: of timings where the police have obviously decided they want 174 00:09:32,080 --> 00:09:35,680 Speaker 3: to pursue some new leads or a suspect, and they've 175 00:09:35,679 --> 00:09:38,480 Speaker 3: obviously paused the inquest to give them space to do that. 176 00:09:39,200 --> 00:09:40,720 Speaker 2: At least we assume that, well, I mean. 177 00:09:40,679 --> 00:09:43,080 Speaker 1: We assume that, but the timings definitely do line up 178 00:09:43,120 --> 00:09:44,240 Speaker 1: for that, and. 179 00:09:44,200 --> 00:09:47,720 Speaker 2: We don't have any better explanation because no explanation is given. 180 00:09:48,080 --> 00:09:49,479 Speaker 2: No explanation. 181 00:09:49,679 --> 00:09:51,640 Speaker 3: Yeah, and in some cases, you know, they'd say this 182 00:09:51,679 --> 00:09:53,640 Speaker 3: has been suspended for a very good reason. 183 00:09:54,240 --> 00:09:55,880 Speaker 2: She's kind of a wink of it or a nod 184 00:09:55,920 --> 00:09:58,800 Speaker 2: that we are doing something in the background. 185 00:09:58,880 --> 00:10:01,959 Speaker 3: Yeah, so you have to assume at that point, yes 186 00:10:02,000 --> 00:10:03,000 Speaker 3: they are working together. 187 00:10:02,920 --> 00:10:04,680 Speaker 2: But I'm not sure it is the case that now 188 00:10:04,800 --> 00:10:07,719 Speaker 2: they are working together. So in June of last year, 189 00:10:07,720 --> 00:10:09,880 Speaker 2: the police sent a brief of evidence to the States 190 00:10:09,920 --> 00:10:13,120 Speaker 2: Director of Public Prosecution seeking advice on whether they could 191 00:10:13,200 --> 00:10:17,040 Speaker 2: charge William's foster mother, and Jeryard Craddock, who's the lead 192 00:10:17,520 --> 00:10:21,600 Speaker 2: lawyer working with the inquest, he said publicly, I should 193 00:10:21,640 --> 00:10:24,520 Speaker 2: make as clear as possible that this request for advice 194 00:10:24,640 --> 00:10:27,240 Speaker 2: has nothing to do with the inquest. It's not a 195 00:10:27,280 --> 00:10:31,520 Speaker 2: coronial referral. It did not come from the council assisting team. 196 00:10:31,600 --> 00:10:34,920 Speaker 2: That's his team. It's not a request for advice by 197 00:10:34,920 --> 00:10:39,520 Speaker 2: this court or anyone associated with this court, which is 198 00:10:39,559 --> 00:10:43,480 Speaker 2: all very gentlemanly and loyally, but I've never seen anything 199 00:10:43,520 --> 00:10:48,600 Speaker 2: like that where an lawyer will publicly say this thing 200 00:10:48,640 --> 00:10:51,320 Speaker 2: that's going on on this case we're working on that's 201 00:10:51,400 --> 00:10:55,760 Speaker 2: nothing to do with us. It struck me as very strange. 202 00:10:57,160 --> 00:11:00,439 Speaker 3: So what we've said so far is the first in quest, 203 00:11:00,480 --> 00:11:02,360 Speaker 3: or at least the first part of it, very focused 204 00:11:02,400 --> 00:11:06,440 Speaker 3: on the search evidence from the foster parents, and then 205 00:11:07,080 --> 00:11:09,680 Speaker 3: the sort of second half of the inquest they start 206 00:11:09,720 --> 00:11:14,840 Speaker 3: looking into other persons of interest and presumably we're going 207 00:11:14,880 --> 00:11:18,719 Speaker 3: to come back to a very different scene because the 208 00:11:18,760 --> 00:11:21,839 Speaker 3: police have obviously got a new focus now. So it's 209 00:11:21,880 --> 00:11:24,080 Speaker 3: going to be interesting are they going to address that, 210 00:11:24,520 --> 00:11:26,960 Speaker 3: how quickly are they going to address that, and are 211 00:11:27,040 --> 00:11:30,000 Speaker 3: the police going to explain that well? 212 00:11:30,040 --> 00:11:32,800 Speaker 2: For me, this is the big question about today's hearing 213 00:11:33,120 --> 00:11:37,120 Speaker 2: is the sudden stop to the inquest. The last hearing 214 00:11:37,160 --> 00:11:40,400 Speaker 2: was in twenty twenty and the findings were due in 215 00:11:40,440 --> 00:11:45,520 Speaker 2: twenty twenty one, but now more than three years later, 216 00:11:45,600 --> 00:11:48,880 Speaker 2: the police are still investigating and the inquest is about 217 00:11:48,920 --> 00:11:52,960 Speaker 2: to start back up with no public explanation why so 218 00:11:53,000 --> 00:11:55,680 Speaker 2: we have to assume it's because the police have been 219 00:11:55,760 --> 00:12:01,280 Speaker 2: off investigating. So you're right. When it was today, we'd 220 00:12:01,320 --> 00:12:04,560 Speaker 2: expect the police to say what they have or have 221 00:12:04,840 --> 00:12:10,360 Speaker 2: not found, but we'd also expect answers. Have they ruled 222 00:12:10,400 --> 00:12:13,760 Speaker 2: out other persons of interest? And there have been those 223 00:12:13,800 --> 00:12:16,240 Speaker 2: other names which will go into later in this series 224 00:12:16,440 --> 00:12:19,520 Speaker 2: in some detail. I know you've done a lot of 225 00:12:19,559 --> 00:12:24,080 Speaker 2: work on that, but the reason those other persons of 226 00:12:24,120 --> 00:12:27,280 Speaker 2: interest are important are that if the police have got 227 00:12:27,320 --> 00:12:31,240 Speaker 2: evidence to back up their suspicion of William's foster mum 228 00:12:31,280 --> 00:12:34,520 Speaker 2: being involved, if they've got direct evidence of that, then 229 00:12:34,600 --> 00:12:38,199 Speaker 2: great they've solved the case. But if they haven't, if 230 00:12:38,200 --> 00:12:42,080 Speaker 2: they've only got a circumstantial case, then they have to 231 00:12:42,160 --> 00:12:44,920 Speaker 2: be able to rule out anyone else who may have 232 00:12:44,920 --> 00:12:47,800 Speaker 2: been involved. So those other names we've heard in the inquest, 233 00:12:47,800 --> 00:12:50,360 Speaker 2: they have to have an answer as to whether or 234 00:12:50,400 --> 00:12:52,960 Speaker 2: not those people can be ruled out. 235 00:12:53,840 --> 00:12:55,880 Speaker 1: Do we have any inkling of what the inquest is 236 00:12:55,920 --> 00:12:56,800 Speaker 1: set to focus on. 237 00:12:57,520 --> 00:13:01,040 Speaker 2: I think there's a few things we can expec So 238 00:13:01,120 --> 00:13:03,760 Speaker 2: the first of those is closed court looking at the 239 00:13:03,760 --> 00:13:06,520 Speaker 2: way the inquest has run over the years. It's had 240 00:13:06,520 --> 00:13:09,000 Speaker 2: a lot of times when the court has been emptied, 241 00:13:09,240 --> 00:13:11,880 Speaker 2: no media, no members of the public, and it's been 242 00:13:11,920 --> 00:13:15,040 Speaker 2: done behind closed doors. And that's previously been done at 243 00:13:15,080 --> 00:13:18,240 Speaker 2: the request of the police, and the idea is is 244 00:13:18,280 --> 00:13:21,360 Speaker 2: to protect their investigation or to protect the discussion of 245 00:13:21,520 --> 00:13:26,360 Speaker 2: police techniques, and that's all well and good, but we 246 00:13:26,440 --> 00:13:29,320 Speaker 2: have to trust them that it is being done for 247 00:13:29,360 --> 00:13:32,760 Speaker 2: the right reasons. Another thing we can expect is non 248 00:13:32,800 --> 00:13:37,920 Speaker 2: publication orders suppression orders where the coroner says, you cannot 249 00:13:38,000 --> 00:13:41,040 Speaker 2: say what this evidence is publicly, so in the media, 250 00:13:41,120 --> 00:13:44,040 Speaker 2: we can't do anything with it, and there have been 251 00:13:44,080 --> 00:13:47,360 Speaker 2: a lot of those to date. This case is surrounded 252 00:13:47,559 --> 00:13:51,200 Speaker 2: by secrecy, and again it's the same thing that can 253 00:13:51,240 --> 00:13:54,200 Speaker 2: be for really good reasons to protect people, to protect 254 00:13:54,200 --> 00:13:58,520 Speaker 2: the police investigation. But it means we do have to 255 00:13:58,640 --> 00:14:01,000 Speaker 2: trust that those orders being put in place for the 256 00:14:01,080 --> 00:14:04,720 Speaker 2: right reason and are being used in the right way. 257 00:14:04,840 --> 00:14:08,160 Speaker 2: It means that justice is being done behind closed. 258 00:14:07,760 --> 00:14:13,880 Speaker 1: Doors and those orders. The media can challenge them, right 259 00:14:13,880 --> 00:14:14,559 Speaker 1: and they have in the. 260 00:14:14,480 --> 00:14:18,160 Speaker 2: Past, yes, not often with much success. 261 00:14:18,840 --> 00:14:21,840 Speaker 1: Okay, so what else are you expecting to say? 262 00:14:21,920 --> 00:14:26,000 Speaker 2: I'm expecting to see human moments, like when a few 263 00:14:26,040 --> 00:14:28,560 Speaker 2: years ago the inquest is being held in Sydney, but 264 00:14:28,640 --> 00:14:31,640 Speaker 2: it went up to Taree near Kendall, where William went missing, 265 00:14:32,640 --> 00:14:35,720 Speaker 2: and at the time, William's biological father said he couldn't 266 00:14:35,760 --> 00:14:38,960 Speaker 2: afford to stay there because it was miles away from home, 267 00:14:39,880 --> 00:14:44,360 Speaker 2: and William's foster mother offered to pay. So it's a 268 00:14:44,400 --> 00:14:49,760 Speaker 2: really simple human moment or at the end of the inquest. 269 00:14:49,840 --> 00:14:52,160 Speaker 2: So back in twenty twenty one, there was another human 270 00:14:52,200 --> 00:14:55,600 Speaker 2: moment where a ten year old girl a statement was 271 00:14:56,040 --> 00:14:59,320 Speaker 2: played in court on a video screen. And again because 272 00:14:59,320 --> 00:15:01,440 Speaker 2: of this secrecy, I can't say who that girl is, 273 00:15:01,840 --> 00:15:05,240 Speaker 2: and this is not her voice, but these are her words. 274 00:15:06,160 --> 00:15:08,880 Speaker 5: I hope this speech makes you half the case. If 275 00:15:08,880 --> 00:15:12,000 Speaker 5: it doesn't, when I'm officially adult, I will be in 276 00:15:12,000 --> 00:15:16,120 Speaker 5: the police force, a detective specifically, and I will find 277 00:15:16,120 --> 00:15:18,600 Speaker 5: my brother and not give up until he is found. 278 00:15:19,120 --> 00:15:22,800 Speaker 5: Please help my family, most of all meet find our 279 00:15:22,840 --> 00:15:27,480 Speaker 5: precious William. In my mind, no one's trying. So I've 280 00:15:27,480 --> 00:15:30,480 Speaker 5: made the decision to do something about that, to talk. 281 00:15:31,600 --> 00:15:34,200 Speaker 2: So again it shows you what's really at stake here, 282 00:15:34,200 --> 00:15:37,479 Speaker 2: which is people's lives, people's emotions. 283 00:15:38,240 --> 00:15:41,960 Speaker 1: It's nice to have that reminder too, that that humanity 284 00:15:42,040 --> 00:15:43,600 Speaker 1: kind of exists within that system. 285 00:15:43,640 --> 00:15:46,600 Speaker 3: That's so like, you know, regimented, You've got to go 286 00:15:46,680 --> 00:15:48,840 Speaker 3: here at this time, you have to do this out 287 00:15:48,840 --> 00:15:49,520 Speaker 3: of the judge. 288 00:15:49,680 --> 00:15:53,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, that humanity exists within the system that is quite inhumane. 289 00:15:54,920 --> 00:15:57,000 Speaker 2: But the one thing that is good about the coroner's 290 00:15:57,040 --> 00:16:01,240 Speaker 2: court is that they really focus on that. The coroner 291 00:16:01,280 --> 00:16:05,400 Speaker 2: will usually always say we are here because of the 292 00:16:05,480 --> 00:16:08,840 Speaker 2: person who died and their family are in the room, 293 00:16:08,880 --> 00:16:11,480 Speaker 2: and they will always concentrate on that, and that is 294 00:16:11,600 --> 00:16:15,560 Speaker 2: hugely important. So that, I think is what we will 295 00:16:15,600 --> 00:16:19,400 Speaker 2: see this week will be there for this podcast. News 296 00:16:19,400 --> 00:16:21,720 Speaker 2: dot com dot au will also be covering the inquest 297 00:16:21,800 --> 00:16:27,240 Speaker 2: daily on their site. I'm expecting to see something we 298 00:16:27,280 --> 00:16:32,200 Speaker 2: don't expect. Okay, mate, this is witness William Tyrell. 299 00:16:32,400 --> 00:16:34,560 Speaker 1: I'm Dan Box and I'm Nina Young.