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Speaker 1: Let's talk about electricity prices and how the hydrogen power

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Speaker 1: plant that's going to cost some six hundred million dollars

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Speaker 1: may not make any difference. The government says it will,

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Speaker 1: but the Office of Hydrogen Power, the CEO Sam Crafter,

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Speaker 1: telling Parliament that no modeling has been done on how

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Speaker 1: the hydrogen power plant would reduce your electricity bill. Hidi

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Speaker 1: Durolimo is chair of the Budget and Finance Committee in Parliament.

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Speaker 1: Hidi Gerrolimo, good morning, Good morning Matt. So the hydrogen

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Speaker 1: power plant, you're going off Sam Crafter's submission yesterday that

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Speaker 1: it may not make any difference to electricity bills in

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Speaker 1: the future.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, and we're really concerned that this six hundred million

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Speaker 2: dollar experiment with the hydrogen plant is not even going

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Speaker 2: to save a dollar fifty for many South Australian families

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Speaker 2: on their electricity. It's really concerning that the government is

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Speaker 2: backtracking on this. Last sitting week, both the Premier and

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Speaker 2: the Minister referred to the hydrogen plant as a policy

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Speaker 2: measure to bring down power bills. Yet this morning the

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Speaker 2: Minister's saying we never promised it would be a cost

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Speaker 2: of living measure. On another radio station. We are really

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Speaker 2: concerned that this is very much a back of the

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Speaker 2: envelope plan and a thought bubble from Tom Kritsontonis when

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Speaker 2: it comes to the hydrogen plant, you're spending six hundred

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Speaker 2: million dollars of taxpayer money and potentially not saving a

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Speaker 2: dollar for many South Australian families who are doing it

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Speaker 2: incredibly tough at the moment. We asked a range of

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Speaker 2: different questions during the committee, some very simple questions about

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Speaker 2: what economic modeling had been done, and there was absolute silence.

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Speaker 2: It seems like very little has been done to make

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Speaker 2: sure that this is the right decision for South Australians

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Speaker 2: and the right decision for South Australian taxpayers. When you're

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Speaker 2: spending an exorbitant amount of money on what could be

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Speaker 2: a white elephant experiment, is.

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Speaker 1: The minister right? Though they haven't linked this to cost

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Speaker 1: of living, have they?

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Speaker 2: I think they have.

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Speaker 1: Specifically they have talked about lower power.

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Speaker 2: Down well, bringing down power prices is what I think

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Speaker 2: people would expect to see a saving on their power bill,

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Speaker 2: and at the moment, I think South Australians are paying

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Speaker 2: the highest electricity in the nation and they would like

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Speaker 2: to see this six hundred million dollar experiment resulting in

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Speaker 2: a reduction in their power bills. And it was pretty

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Speaker 2: clear from the committee yesterday that this is unlikely to occur.

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Speaker 2: That they're going to somehow build this power plant for

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Speaker 2: six hundred million dollars. There's no impact of inflation, even

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Speaker 2: though we know a lot of the costs associated with

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Speaker 2: the power hydrogen power have gone up massively. But yet

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Speaker 2: somehow this is going to be delivered and six hundred

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Speaker 2: million dollars of taxpayer funds are going to be spent.

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Speaker 2: But yet it's not going to impact on South Australian's

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Speaker 2: power bills when they're doing it so tough.

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Speaker 1: We've heard all along from successive governments here in South Australia,

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Speaker 1: both Liberal and Labor, how renewable energy was going to

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Speaker 1: bring down electricity costs and we're still waiting for that, Heidi,

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Speaker 1: and you know your side of politics. I can recall

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Speaker 1: John Olson, Rob Kern, Hiss, Premieer saying that back in

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Speaker 1: the day we're talking twenty odd years ago. I can

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Speaker 1: recall Mike Rant and Jay Weatherill saying it in their

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Speaker 1: time too. We're still waiting for that to happen. So

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Speaker 1: is this just another another one of those promises, renewables.

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Speaker 1: It's free, you know, it's free energy. We just got

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Speaker 1: to make it happen and that'll come at a cost

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Speaker 1: and power prices will come down. Well they haven't once

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Speaker 1: sent with renewables.

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Speaker 2: No, they haven't. And I think this government needs to

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Speaker 2: step up and make sure that they're investing appropriately to

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Speaker 2: make sure that power prices do come under control. At

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Speaker 2: the moment, spending six hundred million dollars on a thought

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Speaker 2: bubble seems like it's unnecessary spending at a time when

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Speaker 2: South Australians are doing it really tough and would like

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Speaker 2: to see their electricity bills come down.

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Speaker 1: All right, appreciate your time. Heidi Drolimo, Chair of the

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Speaker 1: Budget and Finance Committee, State Parliament, the Minister Energy, Minister

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Speaker 1: Tom Kutz and Thonas on the line. Minister, good morning,

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Speaker 1: thank you. Jurymck are you concerned about this that this

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Speaker 1: project six hundred million dollars may not lower electricity bills

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Speaker 1: one dollar twenty so?

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Speaker 3: Before the election match, the Premier held a speech where

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Speaker 3: he said that the Hydrogen's Job plan was not about

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Speaker 3: lowering power prices and it never was and the Liberals

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Speaker 3: know that we've been saying that all along. This is

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Speaker 3: about having a strategic reserve of power. You might remember

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Speaker 3: that after the state wide blackout, we bought two hundred

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Speaker 3: and seventy megawatts of generation to be put into the

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Speaker 3: system to have our strategic reserve in case the state

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Speaker 3: was short the moment we lost the election in twenty eighteen,

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Speaker 3: Heidi Jerromolo and her friends sold that generator immediately into

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Speaker 3: the market. They've sold those generators that privatized them, and

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Speaker 3: then another two hundred and fifty megawatts left the system.

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Speaker 3: So we're building this generation in Wala to have a

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Speaker 3: strategic reserve. We never said it was going to lower

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Speaker 3: power prices, and we will criticize before the election about

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Speaker 3: saying it wasn't going to lower power prices. The reason

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Speaker 3: we're building a hydrogen electoralizer and the reason we're building

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Speaker 3: a generator is because on dayslight today, Matthew, we have

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Speaker 3: got so much renewable energy being produced in South Australia

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Speaker 3: that we're either turning solar panels off or solar arrays off,

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Speaker 3: or we're exporting it into state because prices are nearly negative.

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Speaker 3: What we're saying is we want to use the hydrogen

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Speaker 3: electoralizer like a pump hydro station where we use the

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Speaker 3: cheap power to manufacture hydrogen. And the reason we've built

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Speaker 3: it at Whyala is you can use that hydrogen to

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Speaker 3: beneficiate iron ore to green iron and make green steel,

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Speaker 3: so you can replace coaking cold with hydrogen. So what

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Speaker 3: Heid and it was a trying to do is trying

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Speaker 3: to convince our Australians that a government policy is having

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Speaker 3: an impact on power prices. The truth is this is

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Speaker 3: an international problem. Gas prices and cold prices are up

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Speaker 3: because of the war in Ukraine. The international actors got

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Speaker 3: nothing to do with anything the governt start.

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Speaker 1: Well, gas you could argue, you could argue have gone

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Speaker 1: up because of the arrangements we have to export it

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Speaker 1: before we supply our own local market for goodness sake.

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Speaker 3: Well you could also argue that hidest decision to ban

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Speaker 3: gas exploration and practice stimulation in the southeast and our

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Speaker 3: second largest basin has also had an impact on supply

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Speaker 3: and increased prices, but they keep very quiet about that.

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Speaker 3: But my point is the Hydrogen is Jobs plan is

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Speaker 3: about making sure that our free smelters that we have

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Speaker 3: in this state, the one at roxby Downs, the one

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Speaker 3: at Wyale and the one at Port Piri continue to

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Speaker 3: make and beneficiate our ores into products, into metals, rather

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Speaker 3: than just shipping those oars off the career in japanel

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Speaker 3: that some other country have those high tech complex jobs,

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Speaker 3: we want them here. So what we're doing is we're

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Speaker 3: future proofing Wyala by making sure that our electoral life

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Speaker 3: is being built in Wyalo doesn't just serve the generator,

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Speaker 3: because the generator can run on gas and hydrogen. What

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Speaker 3: we're saying is we want at hydrogen used in the

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Speaker 3: still works to make sure we can lower those emission

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Speaker 3: and have a product we can then sell to the

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Speaker 3: rest of the world because quite frankly, the plan that

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Speaker 3: liberals had to export hydrogen around the world become very

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Speaker 3: very difficult. We think we should use the hydrogen where

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Speaker 3: you make it. We think we should be using it

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Speaker 3: here to beneficiate our ores like copper, like iron ore

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Speaker 3: and like let him think, because we can create those

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Speaker 3: advanced manufacturing jobs here in South Australia rather than in

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Speaker 3: career in Japan and China.

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Speaker 1: You're on hold well, Heidi Jialimo said that the Premier

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Speaker 1: and you have said it will reduce power prices. Are

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Speaker 1: you saying she's lying all that wrong?

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Speaker 3: I would never call her a liar, but we never

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Speaker 3: said it would reduce retail prices ever, with what we

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Speaker 3: said it would do is to have an impact on

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Speaker 3: the wholesale market. It's but the Premier was criticized roundly

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Speaker 3: by the Liberals before the election and after election because

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Speaker 3: we've always said this was not designed to reduce retail prices.

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Speaker 3: What we're doing is we're building a generator for system security,

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Speaker 3: and the system security is going to be in place

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Speaker 3: by our generator is needed, and it can operate on

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Speaker 3: hydrogen and we can use that hydrogen that we're manufacturing

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Speaker 3: up there with renewal energy in the stool works as well,

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Speaker 3: which is why we chose Wyala. So, I mean, I

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Speaker 3: think the Liberals are being a little bit kit here

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Speaker 3: and they know it. So the political spinner is on

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Speaker 3: their side, not ours. We've always been upfront with the

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Speaker 3: people of South Australia. We've always said that.

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Speaker 1: What happens if and this is hypothetical at this stage,

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Speaker 1: but it looks worrying every day more stories out of

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Speaker 1: Wyala and people concerned about their future there. If the

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Speaker 1: plant goes down, what happens to the hydrogen project.

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Speaker 3: The plant cannot go down. Let let's be very clear

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Speaker 3: about this. The South Australian government will not let Wyala fail.

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Speaker 3: That blast furnace cannot go cold unless there is something

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Speaker 3: to replace it. They can take virgin ore from the

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Speaker 3: Middle Back Ranges and put into whale. The only reason

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Speaker 3: bhp Arium and now GUP have those mining licenses for

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Speaker 3: those vast iron ore reserves because they operate steel works.

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Speaker 3: There is no future for iron ore mining without a

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Speaker 3: still works in Layala. The still works must survive. We've

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Speaker 3: got the common orth and the state government's got over

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Speaker 3: one hundred and twelve million dollars on the table to

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Speaker 3: help mister Gupta reinvest in facilities in Wyoma to try

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Speaker 3: and make sure we can keep still making going. We're

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Speaker 3: waiting on him, but I don't think. I don't think

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Speaker 3: fear angering by some politicians actually assists us get through this.

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Speaker 3: There are international price shocks that are having an impact

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Speaker 3: on still manufacturing. Steel prices are down globally, iron ore

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Speaker 3: prices are down globally. That's having an impact in Layala

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Speaker 3: that Wyler is not immune. There's the same things are

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Speaker 3: going on around the world. But I also understand their

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Speaker 3: anxiety about these long terms that creditors are waiting for

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Speaker 3: their money. I meet with creditors regularly about this, and

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Speaker 3: we are trying to assist. But in the end we

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Speaker 3: must maintain still making Wyala, and I don't think creating

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Speaker 3: panic helps that.

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Speaker 1: Two things in regards to that. Will you go to

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Speaker 1: Wyala and speak to people there and reassure them of

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Speaker 1: the things you've just told me here and linked to

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Speaker 1: that you will?

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Speaker 3: I regularly go to Whaler. I think I've did with

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Speaker 3: Waler more than the other any other politician other than

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Speaker 3: Ron Ramsey and Eddie Hues who who are the local members?

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Speaker 3: So I'm there.

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Speaker 1: I'm there very often, Okay, so what a couple of

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Speaker 1: months or so?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? Absolutely, And I meet with the council regularly, and

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Speaker 3: I meet with the local MP regularly. I meet with

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Speaker 3: mister go regularly. I am very worried about Wyala. You

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Speaker 3: might remember a while ago when Miss books That decided

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Speaker 3: to delay his electric arts burns. I had some quite

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Speaker 3: strong words to say about him. But the difference between

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Speaker 3: me and mister Pangelo is I actually have to manage this,

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Speaker 3: and what I don't want to do is create a panic. Now,

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Speaker 3: what I'm saying is, yes, some creditors are owed money

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Speaker 3: and that is difficult, but I've not seen large amounts

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Speaker 3: that are looks like it's going to push them over,

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Speaker 3: and I don't want to create a panic, and panic

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Speaker 3: helps no one. We need systemic, long term growth. We're

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Speaker 3: investing with the Common Worth government. I'm in regular contact

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Speaker 3: with the Common Worth government. We want to make sure

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Speaker 3: creditors get paid. We're placing one of the largest steel

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Speaker 3: orders in the state's history with GfG, so were going

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Speaker 3: to order one hundred and thirty thousand tons of steel

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Speaker 3: for the North South Corridor from GfG. We want to

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Speaker 3: see that that work and keep them working there. That's

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Speaker 3: a big order that should sustain them. We want to

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Speaker 3: see a new investment in the blast furnace to be

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Speaker 3: replaced by an olytric ark furnace and direct in relaction facility.

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Speaker 3: We're speaking of the Common Warfs government about that, and

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Speaker 3: that's why we're building our hydro and electrolyger next to

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Speaker 3: Wayala because everyone knows that green iron is the way forward.

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Speaker 3: So I'm not sure why tips on getting called experimental.

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Speaker 3: If you want a long term future for ila you

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Speaker 3: need hydrogen? Is there a boat?

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Speaker 1: Is there a place for the state and federal government

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Speaker 1: in buying the still works? If mister can't keep it going,

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Speaker 1: why not?

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Speaker 3: I think we will be better off if mister Goode

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Speaker 3: decided to slide, we'd be better off having another still

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Speaker 3: manufacturer purchase it. I don't think it should be a

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Speaker 3: government run industry's government.

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Speaker 1: It just seems, given its history though, it's going to

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Speaker 1: keep going through these cycles though unless they.

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Speaker 3: Well, this is the problem. When when when whaler makes

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Speaker 3: rail line and structural still the long products that it makes,

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Speaker 3: it makes money. When it makes it's still billet, which

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Speaker 3: is its unfinished steel products, it doesn't make as much money.

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Speaker 3: And structurally the blast furnace is very small. It's only

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Speaker 3: a million times a year, so you want it to

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Speaker 3: be a bit bigger than that. So you want an

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Speaker 3: electric art furnace and a direct iron reduction faclet it

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Speaker 3: a bit bigger. So we need someone to invest in it.

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Speaker 3: We're putting some money up. We'd like mister Goodton to

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Speaker 3: do it. And if you can't do it and he

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Speaker 3: decides someone else will do it, or he has an

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Speaker 3: ability to invest we're there to support him, but in

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Speaker 3: the meantime, my job is to make sure that blast

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Speaker 3: furness stays hot steel.

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Speaker 1: I've just been sent a text on the text line

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Speaker 1: here and it's the Australian National Hydrogen Strategy. It says

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Speaker 1: this was used in election material in the state election

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Speaker 1: and it says this plan will deliver first line in

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Speaker 1: red and white at lower electricity prices for businesses and

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Speaker 1: industry in South Australia.

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Speaker 3: That's because that would be about the wholesale market rather

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Speaker 3: than the retail maker. And we've always said she's got

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Speaker 3: more generation in the wholesale market which big businesses can

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Speaker 3: buy from like BHP and GfG and the big the

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Speaker 3: big industrial plants. That's where our generator is selling into

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Speaker 3: what Heidi and is talking about his mums and dads

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Speaker 3: with their retail bills. So we always said this was

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Speaker 3: about business, the business that we're trying to lower costs

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Speaker 3: for industrial uses, not about residential uses.

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Speaker 1: And no modeling on that either.

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Speaker 3: Well, we released the modeling on that. We said that

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Speaker 3: it would have an impact, but we've always said it

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Speaker 3: won't have an impact on residential prices. We've always said

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Speaker 3: that Matthew, and I'd ask Haidi to find any reference

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Speaker 3: where we said this would lower residential prices.

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Speaker 1: Tom Kitts and Tomas Energy Minuster got to leave it there.

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Speaker 1: Thank you for your time.

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Speaker 3: Thank you