1 00:00:00,680 --> 00:00:03,840 Speaker 1: Welcome to Fear and Greed Sunday feature oh Michael Thompson. 2 00:00:04,160 --> 00:00:06,240 Speaker 1: Last week we aired an interview from the middle of 3 00:00:06,240 --> 00:00:09,719 Speaker 1: twenty twenty one with Daniel Petrie Ao, a tech guru 4 00:00:09,840 --> 00:00:12,800 Speaker 1: and philanthropist, about the need for an overhaul to philanthropy 5 00:00:12,920 --> 00:00:16,560 Speaker 1: in Australia. But at the same time we also recorded 6 00:00:16,600 --> 00:00:19,560 Speaker 1: a second chat with him which is just as fascinating 7 00:00:19,600 --> 00:00:24,040 Speaker 1: because he's the co founder of venture capital fund Airtree Ventures, 8 00:00:24,079 --> 00:00:26,760 Speaker 1: which was one of the early investors in Canava. This 9 00:00:26,880 --> 00:00:29,920 Speaker 1: chat is all about that business, the venture capital side, 10 00:00:29,920 --> 00:00:32,680 Speaker 1: about what he looks for in an investment, the startup 11 00:00:32,760 --> 00:00:36,080 Speaker 1: scene and the importance of the founder in assessing if 12 00:00:36,080 --> 00:00:39,360 Speaker 1: an idea has what it takes to be a success. 13 00:00:39,479 --> 00:00:42,640 Speaker 1: It is a great interview by Sean Aylmer from July 14 00:00:42,800 --> 00:00:45,360 Speaker 1: of twenty twenty one. I hope you enjoy it. 15 00:00:49,080 --> 00:00:51,960 Speaker 2: Welcome to the Fear and Greed Daily Interview. I'm Sean Almer. 16 00:00:52,320 --> 00:00:55,800 Speaker 2: You might remember recently we spoke to Daniel Petrie Ao, 17 00:00:55,960 --> 00:00:59,040 Speaker 2: co founder and chair of venture capital firm Airtree Ventures, 18 00:00:59,280 --> 00:01:01,840 Speaker 2: about the need to overhaul the way we do philanthropy 19 00:01:01,920 --> 00:01:04,720 Speaker 2: in Australia. But I wanted to speak to Daniel today 20 00:01:04,760 --> 00:01:08,520 Speaker 2: about air Tree Ventures and about the startup culture in Australia. 21 00:01:08,640 --> 00:01:11,120 Speaker 2: It's an exciting time to be involved in startups and 22 00:01:11,160 --> 00:01:15,039 Speaker 2: Airtree has partnered with some incredible innovators companies like Canva 23 00:01:15,120 --> 00:01:17,800 Speaker 2: and Prosper. Daniel Petrie, welcome back to Fear and Greed. 24 00:01:18,000 --> 00:01:19,240 Speaker 3: Thanks you, I'm glad to be here again. 25 00:01:19,760 --> 00:01:21,840 Speaker 2: How would you rate the level of innovation and Australian 26 00:01:21,959 --> 00:01:23,880 Speaker 2: startups past couple of years. 27 00:01:24,360 --> 00:01:27,560 Speaker 3: I would say that Australian startups that ecosystem has gone 28 00:01:27,600 --> 00:01:30,120 Speaker 3: from being nascent, you know, five, six, seven, eight years ago, 29 00:01:30,160 --> 00:01:32,040 Speaker 3: to being world class. Now. There's no question that we 30 00:01:32,080 --> 00:01:37,120 Speaker 3: are now producing regularly best in class global companies that 31 00:01:37,200 --> 00:01:40,600 Speaker 3: are scaling fast, have best in class offers, best in 32 00:01:40,600 --> 00:01:44,640 Speaker 3: class financials. We are batting at least as good as 33 00:01:44,640 --> 00:01:46,160 Speaker 3: we could have ever hoped when you looked at this 34 00:01:46,200 --> 00:01:47,520 Speaker 3: from five to six years ago. 35 00:01:48,000 --> 00:01:50,360 Speaker 2: Now, Alassie is a great example of that. But one 36 00:01:50,360 --> 00:01:53,400 Speaker 2: that you've been involved with Canva. How did you get 37 00:01:53,400 --> 00:01:56,840 Speaker 2: involved with Canvas because that's been an incredibly successful company. 38 00:01:56,920 --> 00:01:59,040 Speaker 3: Yeah. Look, I think you'd have to say that Canva 39 00:01:59,320 --> 00:02:03,040 Speaker 3: is the standout performer in the Australian sidep Eco system 40 00:02:03,040 --> 00:02:04,960 Speaker 3: over the last six or eight years and probably will 41 00:02:04,960 --> 00:02:06,800 Speaker 3: be for the next five to ten. To be quite honest, 42 00:02:07,120 --> 00:02:10,560 Speaker 3: it is a genuine unicorn the sense of unique company. 43 00:02:10,960 --> 00:02:14,760 Speaker 3: We were very, very lucky to meet Melanie and Cliff 44 00:02:15,000 --> 00:02:19,079 Speaker 3: and cam about six years ago. We led the seventy 45 00:02:19,120 --> 00:02:21,120 Speaker 3: five million dollars the round that they had a pre 46 00:02:21,200 --> 00:02:24,240 Speaker 3: money of seventy five which was we weren't around when 47 00:02:24,280 --> 00:02:26,519 Speaker 3: the other the two hours prior had been raised, so 48 00:02:26,520 --> 00:02:29,320 Speaker 3: we were opportunity to invest the Blackbird did, and Blackbird's 49 00:02:29,320 --> 00:02:32,120 Speaker 3: been a very incredible strong supporter of Camber, probably the 50 00:02:32,200 --> 00:02:34,880 Speaker 3: greatest supporter of Camber going over all their rounds. But 51 00:02:34,960 --> 00:02:37,320 Speaker 3: we met Melanie, as I said, and I remember the 52 00:02:37,360 --> 00:02:39,920 Speaker 3: first presentation she came and she spoke to myself and 53 00:02:39,919 --> 00:02:42,400 Speaker 3: Paul Bennett, who was working with us then, and you 54 00:02:42,520 --> 00:02:45,080 Speaker 3: just knew within ten minutes of her speaking that you 55 00:02:45,120 --> 00:02:48,919 Speaker 3: were in the presence of someone who was incredibly bright, 56 00:02:49,120 --> 00:02:50,120 Speaker 3: incredibly capable. 57 00:02:50,120 --> 00:02:50,720 Speaker 2: You know she is. 58 00:02:51,280 --> 00:02:54,160 Speaker 3: It is no surprise to anyone how successful Melanie and 59 00:02:54,160 --> 00:02:56,919 Speaker 3: Cliff have been. And just listening to Melanie present her vision, 60 00:02:56,960 --> 00:02:59,079 Speaker 3: and at that time they had no revenue, but they 61 00:02:59,120 --> 00:03:03,239 Speaker 3: had doble stickiness with their product with users that people 62 00:03:03,280 --> 00:03:05,720 Speaker 3: were using it and coming back and using it more 63 00:03:05,800 --> 00:03:07,639 Speaker 3: and more and more. So when you look at a company, 64 00:03:07,680 --> 00:03:10,240 Speaker 3: you look at the love a customer has for a product. 65 00:03:10,280 --> 00:03:12,480 Speaker 3: You couldn't have found a better example than Canvas. So 66 00:03:13,040 --> 00:03:15,080 Speaker 3: we were very fortunate to lead that round and have 67 00:03:15,160 --> 00:03:16,600 Speaker 3: invested in every round since then. 68 00:03:16,840 --> 00:03:20,000 Speaker 2: So it's design software candor is where that all started? 69 00:03:20,320 --> 00:03:20,519 Speaker 3: Yes? 70 00:03:20,720 --> 00:03:24,320 Speaker 2: Was it the product or was it the managers that 71 00:03:24,400 --> 00:03:25,640 Speaker 2: grabbed you? Or do you need both? 72 00:03:26,000 --> 00:03:27,720 Speaker 3: I think Look, you listen to different people on this. 73 00:03:27,919 --> 00:03:30,400 Speaker 3: I think the best combination. The thing you're searching for 74 00:03:30,440 --> 00:03:34,280 Speaker 3: as an eventure capitalist is an outstanding founder with a 75 00:03:34,360 --> 00:03:40,280 Speaker 3: really good idea. And Melanie obviously had design domain experience 76 00:03:40,400 --> 00:03:44,680 Speaker 3: from her time doing design teaching in Western Australia, so 77 00:03:44,680 --> 00:03:47,360 Speaker 3: she had domain experience, but she had a very very 78 00:03:47,360 --> 00:03:49,920 Speaker 3: clear vision of how she wanted to create cloud based 79 00:03:49,960 --> 00:03:52,880 Speaker 3: design tools for the masses that didn't require you to 80 00:03:52,880 --> 00:03:55,320 Speaker 3: be a designer used And that was the difference, you know, 81 00:03:55,320 --> 00:03:57,480 Speaker 3: if you look at was it offering on offering those 82 00:03:57,560 --> 00:03:59,760 Speaker 3: days from Adobe and others, you really had to be 83 00:03:59,800 --> 00:04:02,880 Speaker 3: some with some form of design skills to use it, 84 00:04:02,920 --> 00:04:05,360 Speaker 3: and with Canva you don't. Yes, design is to use it, 85 00:04:05,400 --> 00:04:08,800 Speaker 3: but normal humans use it even more. And so she 86 00:04:08,920 --> 00:04:11,480 Speaker 3: had that vision then, and so shears was an example 87 00:04:11,480 --> 00:04:15,360 Speaker 3: of founded with domain experience, deep domain experience in design 88 00:04:15,440 --> 00:04:18,960 Speaker 3: and design tools, a very clear vision of how she 89 00:04:19,040 --> 00:04:21,160 Speaker 3: was going to build the company and how she was 90 00:04:21,160 --> 00:04:22,880 Speaker 3: going to build the product. And so there was a 91 00:04:22,920 --> 00:04:26,040 Speaker 3: perfect combination of those two things founder and idea. 92 00:04:26,600 --> 00:04:29,280 Speaker 2: How many of these sorts of potential they are startups 93 00:04:29,320 --> 00:04:32,119 Speaker 2: potential investing companies, do you see? 94 00:04:32,560 --> 00:04:34,800 Speaker 3: Yeah? And look, I think we have to celebrate Canvas 95 00:04:34,800 --> 00:04:36,520 Speaker 3: because it is just one of the great stories of 96 00:04:36,560 --> 00:04:39,560 Speaker 3: our time, of my lifetime, probably, but there are so 97 00:04:39,640 --> 00:04:42,560 Speaker 3: many other success stories that get lost in translation. We 98 00:04:42,600 --> 00:04:45,719 Speaker 3: see about fifteen to twenty companies a week, wow, and 99 00:04:45,760 --> 00:04:49,400 Speaker 3: we probably invest about twenty companies a year first checks, 100 00:04:49,960 --> 00:04:52,440 Speaker 3: and a lot of our success stories are companies that 101 00:04:52,800 --> 00:04:54,480 Speaker 3: you know, in the first time we invested at a four 102 00:04:54,520 --> 00:04:57,240 Speaker 3: million dollar valuation and now they're worth one hundred and 103 00:04:57,240 --> 00:04:59,599 Speaker 3: twenty or one hundred and fifty or two hundred, and 104 00:04:59,640 --> 00:05:02,599 Speaker 3: they might get sold for on the founder's discretion, but 105 00:05:02,640 --> 00:05:05,160 Speaker 3: they might get sold or IPO two hundred or three hundred, 106 00:05:05,400 --> 00:05:07,600 Speaker 3: and they might not make the press. But that's an 107 00:05:07,600 --> 00:05:09,560 Speaker 3: outstanding result for the founder. 108 00:05:09,960 --> 00:05:10,800 Speaker 2: Incredible return. 109 00:05:11,040 --> 00:05:13,320 Speaker 3: Yes, there's lots of those. There's lots of sort of 110 00:05:13,680 --> 00:05:17,320 Speaker 3: started sub ten million dollar valuation, worked really hard and 111 00:05:17,440 --> 00:05:20,440 Speaker 3: had some sort of outcome for them partial sell do 112 00:05:20,440 --> 00:05:22,960 Speaker 3: on or sell down some six eight years later, And 113 00:05:22,960 --> 00:05:24,560 Speaker 3: there are lots of them. And I think now if 114 00:05:24,560 --> 00:05:28,120 Speaker 3: you looked at the major portfolios across the bigger firm 115 00:05:28,200 --> 00:05:30,920 Speaker 3: so Square, Peg, Blackbird, and Ask, each of us have 116 00:05:30,960 --> 00:05:33,839 Speaker 3: probably got about sixty or seventy companies our portfolio, so 117 00:05:33,880 --> 00:05:37,599 Speaker 3: there's probably a bit of overlaps. There's probably one hundred 118 00:05:37,600 --> 00:05:40,720 Speaker 3: and eighty companies across all three and of those, I 119 00:05:40,760 --> 00:05:44,200 Speaker 3: would say probably one hundred one hundred and forty companies 120 00:05:44,200 --> 00:05:46,240 Speaker 3: that are I found not worth one hundred millions today 121 00:05:46,520 --> 00:05:48,479 Speaker 3: are on a path to that, plus a hell of 122 00:05:48,520 --> 00:05:50,480 Speaker 3: a lot more. There are tons of unicorns in there 123 00:05:50,520 --> 00:05:52,320 Speaker 3: in the sense of, you know, billion dollar companies. So 124 00:05:52,360 --> 00:05:54,640 Speaker 3: it's a great example now. And I think the other 125 00:05:54,680 --> 00:05:57,600 Speaker 3: thing that's wonderful is we're now seeing what I saw 126 00:05:57,640 --> 00:05:59,960 Speaker 3: that happened in in Seattle. And when I went in 127 00:06:00,040 --> 00:06:02,720 Speaker 3: Seattle with Microsoft back in the nineties, I was vice 128 00:06:02,720 --> 00:06:06,360 Speaker 3: presudent on campus, you'd see a Microsoft person engineer, product 129 00:06:06,360 --> 00:06:09,440 Speaker 3: manager leave after vesting six seven years and going to 130 00:06:09,480 --> 00:06:11,880 Speaker 3: a startup. And so there were fifteen thousand startups that 131 00:06:11,920 --> 00:06:14,440 Speaker 3: came out of the Microsoft sort of technology ecosystem in 132 00:06:14,440 --> 00:06:18,359 Speaker 3: the Seattle area. You're now seeing in Australia engineers, people 133 00:06:18,400 --> 00:06:21,640 Speaker 3: product managers leaving at Lassian and companies like that, not 134 00:06:21,680 --> 00:06:23,200 Speaker 3: for any ill will, but you want to do their 135 00:06:23,240 --> 00:06:25,159 Speaker 3: own thing, and they're taking their few million dollars of 136 00:06:25,240 --> 00:06:27,960 Speaker 3: vest at equity. They're starting their own company with funding 137 00:06:27,960 --> 00:06:30,920 Speaker 3: for people like our source Square, Peeg or Blackbird. It's 138 00:06:30,920 --> 00:06:34,320 Speaker 3: a magnificence of Now they're turning their effort into the ecosystem, 139 00:06:34,360 --> 00:06:37,400 Speaker 3: building new companies which then build more people with more equity. 140 00:06:37,520 --> 00:06:39,960 Speaker 3: So it's a very exciting and happy time. 141 00:06:40,240 --> 00:06:42,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it's incredibly exciting. Now if I have 142 00:06:42,440 --> 00:06:44,920 Speaker 2: a company and I want to impress you, Daniel, I'm 143 00:06:44,920 --> 00:06:47,360 Speaker 2: sort of asking the same question as previously when we're 144 00:06:47,360 --> 00:06:50,240 Speaker 2: talking about Canva. You need a great product, you need 145 00:06:50,240 --> 00:06:52,560 Speaker 2: a great manager, you need great vision. What are the 146 00:06:52,600 --> 00:06:53,479 Speaker 2: things that you're looking for? 147 00:06:53,720 --> 00:06:55,160 Speaker 3: Well, I think the three at totes you've got to 148 00:06:55,160 --> 00:06:57,000 Speaker 3: solve for in a company, and you think about as 149 00:06:57,000 --> 00:06:59,400 Speaker 3: three roles, or sometimes the roles are combined. You got 150 00:06:59,440 --> 00:07:00,960 Speaker 3: to think about these three things. You got to think 151 00:07:01,279 --> 00:07:03,640 Speaker 3: what is the product and that is what features in 152 00:07:03,680 --> 00:07:06,560 Speaker 3: this product are you exposing to the public of a 153 00:07:06,640 --> 00:07:09,520 Speaker 3: client base, and how do you know those features will stick? 154 00:07:09,560 --> 00:07:11,080 Speaker 3: How do you know that what you're going to offer 155 00:07:11,440 --> 00:07:15,160 Speaker 3: is sustainably differentiated enough for you to actually charge for 156 00:07:15,200 --> 00:07:18,120 Speaker 3: this at some point? So the product definition of product 157 00:07:18,120 --> 00:07:21,640 Speaker 3: management is super important. The technology is super important. Who 158 00:07:21,680 --> 00:07:24,800 Speaker 3: is going to be responsible for developing this product vision 159 00:07:24,840 --> 00:07:29,200 Speaker 3: into a very beautiful, easy to use product that has 160 00:07:29,320 --> 00:07:33,440 Speaker 3: high functionality, that is low resource requirements and they can 161 00:07:33,520 --> 00:07:36,080 Speaker 3: do this. They can drop code bases or drop versions 162 00:07:36,440 --> 00:07:39,680 Speaker 3: bug free effectively and efficiently. So that's your technology. And 163 00:07:39,720 --> 00:07:42,040 Speaker 3: then there's the growth person. Well, how are you going 164 00:07:42,080 --> 00:07:44,600 Speaker 3: to grow the acceptance or the exposure of this product? 165 00:07:44,640 --> 00:07:46,160 Speaker 3: And who's going to pay for it? And what will they 166 00:07:46,200 --> 00:07:49,559 Speaker 3: pay for and how much and where and when? So really, 167 00:07:49,560 --> 00:07:51,480 Speaker 3: what you want the founders to have thought through is 168 00:07:51,520 --> 00:07:53,600 Speaker 3: a little bit of all of those things. Sometimes they 169 00:07:53,640 --> 00:07:55,800 Speaker 3: haven't worked out the revenue side, but they've worked out 170 00:07:55,800 --> 00:07:58,760 Speaker 3: the engagement side. So in the Canva place, they thought 171 00:07:58,800 --> 00:08:02,320 Speaker 3: through what the product was, they thought through deeply how 172 00:08:02,480 --> 00:08:05,520 Speaker 3: the engineering site, and they thought through the growth in use, 173 00:08:05,800 --> 00:08:07,800 Speaker 3: and then they had a thesis on revenue, so they 174 00:08:07,800 --> 00:08:10,480 Speaker 3: had sort of part of the thing sold. But generally speaking, 175 00:08:10,480 --> 00:08:12,120 Speaker 3: if you had to come to us, I want you 176 00:08:12,160 --> 00:08:14,040 Speaker 3: to at least thought about that stuff and also thought 177 00:08:14,040 --> 00:08:16,000 Speaker 3: about it in the context of what else is happening 178 00:08:16,000 --> 00:08:18,800 Speaker 3: around the world. Don't compsate we're the only person in 179 00:08:18,840 --> 00:08:20,480 Speaker 3: the world doing this. If I can do a Google 180 00:08:20,520 --> 00:08:24,760 Speaker 3: search and find seven of them, be really honest with 181 00:08:24,840 --> 00:08:27,280 Speaker 3: what you're doing, and not just that you're excited, but 182 00:08:27,360 --> 00:08:30,040 Speaker 3: you know that customers will be excited for what you're 183 00:08:30,080 --> 00:08:30,520 Speaker 3: going to bring. 184 00:08:31,240 --> 00:08:33,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, do you see a lot of companies out there 185 00:08:33,800 --> 00:08:35,719 Speaker 2: which you just think will never make it? 186 00:08:36,559 --> 00:08:39,679 Speaker 3: Look, I think it's Benucapitali is part science, and I 187 00:08:39,720 --> 00:08:42,160 Speaker 3: think it is orogant for any avenure campin to say, well, 188 00:08:42,160 --> 00:08:44,800 Speaker 3: you know, they'll never make it, because there's possibility and 189 00:08:44,800 --> 00:08:47,720 Speaker 3: there's probability. Right, they're probably companies which have a lower 190 00:08:47,760 --> 00:08:51,360 Speaker 3: probability of success. But if those founders want to put 191 00:08:51,360 --> 00:08:53,120 Speaker 3: their hearts and soul on the line and put their 192 00:08:53,160 --> 00:08:55,000 Speaker 3: life on hold to do it, then all part of 193 00:08:55,120 --> 00:08:57,880 Speaker 3: them we should celebrate them. We do try to given 194 00:08:57,920 --> 00:08:59,560 Speaker 3: people we don't invest in, we do try to give 195 00:08:59,559 --> 00:09:02,880 Speaker 3: a founder. There's some positive critique about we might be 196 00:09:02,920 --> 00:09:04,360 Speaker 3: able to help you this time, but here's what we'd 197 00:09:04,360 --> 00:09:05,719 Speaker 3: be looking at if we were you, and here's what 198 00:09:05,760 --> 00:09:08,280 Speaker 3: we'd be thinking about, because we've seen so many companies 199 00:09:08,280 --> 00:09:10,480 Speaker 3: try and give them a bit of insight into the 200 00:09:10,520 --> 00:09:13,079 Speaker 3: pattern recognition that we see. But again they might say, well, 201 00:09:13,080 --> 00:09:14,720 Speaker 3: you're just wrong. Air three. We're going to go and 202 00:09:14,760 --> 00:09:16,840 Speaker 3: do this, and good on them, right, I mean, if 203 00:09:16,840 --> 00:09:19,520 Speaker 3: that it's their life, they should have the opportunity to 204 00:09:19,559 --> 00:09:20,760 Speaker 3: live the life they way they want. 205 00:09:21,120 --> 00:09:24,439 Speaker 2: Stay with me, Daniel, we'll be back in a minute. 206 00:09:28,200 --> 00:09:31,000 Speaker 2: My guest this morning is Daniel Petrie Ao, co founder 207 00:09:31,000 --> 00:09:33,800 Speaker 2: and chair of Air Tree Ventures. Are there certain sector? 208 00:09:33,840 --> 00:09:36,200 Speaker 2: I mean, technology is in every sector. So are there 209 00:09:36,320 --> 00:09:39,720 Speaker 2: certain areas of the economy or the global economy that 210 00:09:39,800 --> 00:09:41,319 Speaker 2: you prefer over others? 211 00:09:42,000 --> 00:09:43,880 Speaker 3: Look, I think not really. Do you know if we're 212 00:09:43,880 --> 00:09:47,040 Speaker 3: not really? Although I'd say we probably avoid hardware because 213 00:09:47,040 --> 00:09:50,920 Speaker 3: we don't understand hardware. We are software people. Every many 214 00:09:50,920 --> 00:09:54,000 Speaker 3: of us have run software companies and soign software development teams. Now, 215 00:09:54,040 --> 00:09:56,080 Speaker 3: having said that software and everything right, software is in 216 00:09:56,120 --> 00:09:58,560 Speaker 3: every hardware where we probably don't spend as much time 217 00:09:58,640 --> 00:10:01,520 Speaker 3: trying to understand how to invest in companies that produce 218 00:10:01,600 --> 00:10:04,880 Speaker 3: physical products because it's not our expertise. So software in 219 00:10:04,920 --> 00:10:07,400 Speaker 3: the software world, we'll look at anything. But again we 220 00:10:07,400 --> 00:10:10,040 Speaker 3: were probably a little more concerned in terms of our 221 00:10:10,080 --> 00:10:13,600 Speaker 3: new dillions on regulated environments. So you know, health space 222 00:10:13,640 --> 00:10:15,520 Speaker 3: is highly regulated. You've got to be very careful when 223 00:10:15,520 --> 00:10:18,000 Speaker 3: you think about bringing a new health product to market, 224 00:10:18,320 --> 00:10:21,280 Speaker 3: and financial services or the government regulator space, you've got 225 00:10:21,320 --> 00:10:25,840 Speaker 3: to think more deeply about the responsibilities and the regulations 226 00:10:25,880 --> 00:10:27,800 Speaker 3: you've got to work around when you're bringing a product 227 00:10:27,800 --> 00:10:30,600 Speaker 3: to market. But we have invested deep into the financial 228 00:10:30,640 --> 00:10:33,319 Speaker 3: services sector, deep into the medical software sector, so we've 229 00:10:33,320 --> 00:10:36,760 Speaker 3: done them all. These require slightly different lens. We tend 230 00:10:36,760 --> 00:10:39,880 Speaker 3: to obviously invest mainly in Australia. We tend to invest 231 00:10:39,920 --> 00:10:42,560 Speaker 3: mainly in early stage, so that would be people who 232 00:10:42,600 --> 00:10:45,320 Speaker 3: are looking to raise somewhere around sort of two to 233 00:10:45,360 --> 00:10:48,320 Speaker 3: ten million dollars with the approach dilution, and they've got 234 00:10:48,360 --> 00:10:50,480 Speaker 3: some sense of what they want to do with their 235 00:10:50,520 --> 00:10:54,560 Speaker 3: product and how the initial MVP or minimum viable product 236 00:10:54,600 --> 00:10:57,960 Speaker 3: is working. But really it's anything in software, any software 237 00:10:58,000 --> 00:10:59,120 Speaker 3: we're involved. 238 00:10:59,200 --> 00:11:01,720 Speaker 2: Tell me about how it because you're in part of that. 239 00:11:01,720 --> 00:11:04,520 Speaker 2: It's an online learning company and that's recently been acquired 240 00:11:04,559 --> 00:11:08,320 Speaker 2: by plural Site in the US for about two billion dollars. 241 00:11:08,679 --> 00:11:11,079 Speaker 2: I don't think it existed five years ago. No, it didn't. 242 00:11:11,080 --> 00:11:14,600 Speaker 3: And look, that was an example of the brothers coming together, Ryan, 243 00:11:14,720 --> 00:11:17,600 Speaker 3: Sam and I had a brilliant idea and started off 244 00:11:17,640 --> 00:11:18,959 Speaker 3: from them just doing it sort of in the back 245 00:11:19,000 --> 00:11:23,480 Speaker 3: of their bedroom, literally providing training to how to understand 246 00:11:23,480 --> 00:11:27,640 Speaker 3: how to become proficient on AWS. Now, what that was 247 00:11:27,679 --> 00:11:30,440 Speaker 3: a great combination was clearly there was a need for 248 00:11:30,520 --> 00:11:33,840 Speaker 3: cloud training, so that's just a reality. Second thing was 249 00:11:34,280 --> 00:11:36,960 Speaker 3: they had two major waves sort of coming behind them. 250 00:11:37,000 --> 00:11:40,200 Speaker 3: One is you've now got three major cloud platforms, a 251 00:11:40,320 --> 00:11:43,680 Speaker 3: ws's you're from Microsoft, and GCP from Google. So you 252 00:11:43,760 --> 00:11:45,760 Speaker 3: had if you want to be an engineer, you want 253 00:11:45,760 --> 00:11:47,719 Speaker 3: to understand all three of them, not just one of them. 254 00:11:47,760 --> 00:11:50,280 Speaker 3: So now you have three platforms to train on, and 255 00:11:50,400 --> 00:11:54,840 Speaker 3: every platform is launching new services APIs or pragum interfaces 256 00:11:54,840 --> 00:11:57,280 Speaker 3: that you was a developer interface with. So every year, 257 00:11:57,920 --> 00:12:00,360 Speaker 3: I think as last year launched one hundred and thirty 258 00:12:00,480 --> 00:12:04,200 Speaker 3: new APIs on top of a WS. So each of 259 00:12:04,240 --> 00:12:06,520 Speaker 3: those will requires some degree of training about how to 260 00:12:06,520 --> 00:12:10,680 Speaker 3: think about using that API. So Sam best in class 261 00:12:10,840 --> 00:12:14,880 Speaker 3: producing the training and then laying that across three vectors 262 00:12:14,880 --> 00:12:18,800 Speaker 3: of platforms and then multiple services on top of those platforms, 263 00:12:18,920 --> 00:12:20,920 Speaker 3: and so you had this hyper growth. They were the 264 00:12:21,000 --> 00:12:24,040 Speaker 3: fastest company ever in Australia to get to ten million 265 00:12:24,040 --> 00:12:28,600 Speaker 3: dollars ar run revaw. That's faster than anyone, the Atlastians, 266 00:12:28,640 --> 00:12:29,880 Speaker 3: the Canvas or anyone. 267 00:12:30,320 --> 00:12:33,640 Speaker 2: Wow, Danie, you are a great enthusiast. Anytime I have 268 00:12:33,760 --> 00:12:36,960 Speaker 2: ever seen you speak or spoken to you, you're just 269 00:12:37,160 --> 00:12:39,760 Speaker 2: natural optimism and enthusiasm always comes through. 270 00:12:40,080 --> 00:12:42,640 Speaker 3: That's free k. I feel. I'm genuinely feel I'm very, 271 00:12:42,720 --> 00:12:45,480 Speaker 3: very lucky that I've ended up. I'm sixty two years old, 272 00:12:45,600 --> 00:12:48,640 Speaker 3: end up working for the last forty one years in 273 00:12:48,920 --> 00:12:52,960 Speaker 3: technology and mainly surrounded by young, enthusiastic people who want 274 00:12:53,000 --> 00:12:54,520 Speaker 3: to change the world. And I see that also in 275 00:12:54,559 --> 00:12:56,840 Speaker 3: my philanthropic work. So I do feel quite blessed that 276 00:12:57,280 --> 00:12:59,079 Speaker 3: I'm surrounded by people who want to make the world 277 00:12:59,120 --> 00:13:01,800 Speaker 3: a better placehether it's a better design tools or buy 278 00:13:02,280 --> 00:13:04,720 Speaker 3: clean water for a remote village in Uganda. 279 00:13:05,000 --> 00:13:06,640 Speaker 2: Well, you live that vision and that you know you 280 00:13:06,679 --> 00:13:07,599 Speaker 2: should be really proud of that. 281 00:13:07,880 --> 00:13:08,120 Speaker 3: Thank you. 282 00:13:08,480 --> 00:13:11,160 Speaker 2: That's very kind Daniel, Thanks for talking to Fear and Greed. 283 00:13:11,440 --> 00:13:12,760 Speaker 3: Thanks everyon LUs chatting again. 284 00:13:12,920 --> 00:13:15,760 Speaker 2: Yes that was Daniel Petrie Ao, co founder and chair 285 00:13:15,800 --> 00:13:17,760 Speaker 2: of air Tree Ventures. This is a Fear and Greed 286 00:13:17,840 --> 00:13:20,280 Speaker 2: daily interview. Join me every morning for the full Fear 287 00:13:20,320 --> 00:13:22,640 Speaker 2: and Greed podcast with all the business news that you 288 00:13:22,760 --> 00:13:25,199 Speaker 2: need to know. I'm Sean alma Enjoy your day.