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Speaker 1: Welcome to the mentor. I'm Mark Boris dal Stewart. Welcome

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Speaker 1: to the mentor.

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Speaker 2: Thanks Mark. Great to be here.

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Speaker 1: It's pretty cool to get someone like you. You're the

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Speaker 1: currently or the CEO of Aware Super.

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Speaker 2: That is correct.

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Speaker 1: Now, most people aren't aware of of who Aware is,

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Speaker 1: So tell me a little bit first kick it off.

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Speaker 1: Who is Aware Super? What is that fabulous?

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Speaker 3: So?

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Speaker 2: Aware Super is one of the largest super funds here

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Speaker 2: in Australia. It's about one hundred and eighty billion in

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Speaker 2: terms of funds under management and we serve about one

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Speaker 2: point two million Australians. It originally came out it started

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Speaker 2: in nineteen ninety two where it came out of the

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Speaker 2: New South Wales government. Actually way back when when the

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Speaker 2: super system was just getting started, when Paul Keaty introduced

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Speaker 2: the SG Super Guarantee and the news was government wanted

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Speaker 2: to split out and create a completely independent fund for

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Speaker 2: the public servants of New South Wales. So that's sort

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Speaker 2: of how it began.

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Speaker 1: So what do you mean? What do you mean by that, though,

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Speaker 1: is when Paul did that extraordinarily courageous thing bringing out superinnoation,

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Speaker 1: compulsory super innovation for employers to pay on behalf their employees,

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Speaker 1: which we might well come back to this the reason

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Speaker 1: behind that policy, particularly when you're compared to global policies.

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Speaker 1: But when he did that, the New South Wales government

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Speaker 1: worked out that their employees in the New South Wales

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Speaker 1: Government needed somewhere for the New South Wales Government as

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Speaker 1: the employer to put the super innovation that they had

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Speaker 1: to contribute for their employees. They had to put it

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Speaker 1: somewhere exactly, and they put it into their own fund.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, they put it. At that time it was called

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Speaker 2: First State Super, First Date Super, yes, and then over

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Speaker 2: the years as the years went by, in the early

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Speaker 2: two thousands, we opened it up to all Australians, so

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Speaker 2: now it's available for all Australias.

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Speaker 1: Was it still First Date Super then?

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Speaker 2: It was still First Super then and then through several mergers,

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Speaker 2: so we merged with sort of our counterpart in Victoria,

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Speaker 2: also merged with a health fund and merge with the

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Speaker 2: WA Fund. That's what sort of created it as one

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Speaker 2: of the biggest funds. But each of the names were

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Speaker 2: quite state based, so that's when we then created the

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Speaker 2: name Aware Super to represent sort of the whole of

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Speaker 2: the merged entities.

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Speaker 1: Basically and can only people who work in the public

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Speaker 1: service or state governments have their superinnuation managed by AWARE super.

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Speaker 2: No, it's open to all Australians now and in fact

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Speaker 2: to the point where today I'd say at least fifty

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Speaker 2: percent of the new members joining AWARE have nothing to

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Speaker 2: do with the public sector in New South Wales of Victoria.

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Speaker 1: So if I could just go back a little bit,

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Speaker 1: winds you back a little bit in I can't remember,

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Speaker 1: might have been about ninety ninety one or ninety ninety

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Speaker 1: that Keating decided as Treasurer at the time to introduce

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Speaker 1: this compulsory superneration. What is the thesis behind that? And

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Speaker 1: in a government sense, why would government want employers to

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Speaker 1: put aside money for employees for the day that the

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Speaker 1: employee retires.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, when you think about it now, it's sort of

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Speaker 2: thirty odd years on, it is one of the most

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Speaker 2: it's regarded as the world class in terms of the

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Speaker 2: pension system. But if you think back then, the premise

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Speaker 2: of it was ultimately, how do you help not just

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Speaker 2: affluent or not just those inside corporates that were paying super,

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Speaker 2: how do you help everyday Australians save for their retirement

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Speaker 2: and why would a government want that. Well, ultimately, if

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Speaker 2: you think about it, if you're able to save more

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Speaker 2: for your retirement, that means you are likely to have

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Speaker 2: much more dignity in retirement, but also importantly need the

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Speaker 2: age pension less. And so ultimately it is people being

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Speaker 2: able to all Australians, working Australians able to save for

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Speaker 2: their retirement. That's ultimately the genesis of it.

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Speaker 1: So it saves the government perse for the time when,

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Speaker 1: especially in a country like Australia which is an aging population,

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Speaker 1: when all of a sudden we get more and more

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Speaker 1: people retiring, if they didn't have superinnovation been put in

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Speaker 1: there since the nineties, then the government would have this

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Speaker 1: massive liability to start to support this aging population, which

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Speaker 1: happens in place of Japan major problems.

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Speaker 2: Yes, yes, And if you look at most OECD countries,

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Speaker 2: Australia has the lowest percentage that is required for the

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Speaker 2: age pension because it has this universal superannuation system. Now

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Speaker 2: that's really reaching maturity and you're seeing more Australians being

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Speaker 2: able to essentially self sustain themselves in retirement.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's from the government point of view. And

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Speaker 1: obviously the government perse point of view, or the government

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Speaker 1: balance sheet that that's that's an important thing because the

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Speaker 1: government has to just like if I'm running a business

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Speaker 1: and I've got someone who's accumulating annual leave and long

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Speaker 1: service leave, I have to build a liability for that

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Speaker 1: particular individual because similarly are they're going to be entitled

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Speaker 1: these things. Or the government balance sheet has to build

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Speaker 1: as our population ages has to build in their balance

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Speaker 1: of liability to be able to support our aging population.

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Speaker 1: Which makes sense because you know, we've been paying tax

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Speaker 1: our whole lives, so one day we might not be

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Speaker 1: earning any more money. So the government has to look

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Speaker 1: after us. That's the premise. Now, what the government's saying is, well,

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Speaker 1: we'll look after you only if you haven't got enough

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Speaker 1: support from your own superhnuation, which is your employe has

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Speaker 1: been putting away for you for a long long time,

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Speaker 1: you know. Down I remember my dad. I remember, and

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Speaker 1: I was a young guy. I remember sitting at the

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Speaker 1: kitchen table as a kid, might have been a teenager,

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Speaker 1: my dad, who worked in a factory, coming to having

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Speaker 1: a discussion with mum at the table we're all sitting

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Speaker 1: in my brother and sisters and Dad's saying that this

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Speaker 1: is going to sound ridiculous that his employer was putting

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Speaker 1: three dollars. This is before the superinnovation compulsity, sup I'm

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Speaker 1: doalking in the seventies, was going to put in three

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Speaker 1: dollars seventy something per week towards dad supernovation on the

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Speaker 1: basis the Dad contributed out of his wage as well.

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Speaker 1: He took it out of his wage, three dollars seventy

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Speaker 1: And I remember Dad saying that. The I remember Dad

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Speaker 1: saying that what it meant was that when he retired

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Speaker 1: he was going to get thirty five thousand dollars or

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Speaker 1: something like that. And like I remember the whole family

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Speaker 1: because we just bought a house with thirty five thousand dollars.

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Speaker 1: And I remember thinking to myself as a teenager, Wow,

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Speaker 1: that's like it's a huge amount of money. Like that's

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Speaker 1: a I thought. I think back of it, I thought

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Speaker 1: that was that's a good that's good Dad, And I'm

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Speaker 1: really happy for that. Your employees are contributing to the

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Speaker 1: same employee said if you put in three dollars and

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Speaker 1: I'll putting through it all match you. Now we've got

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Speaker 1: employees putting and everything. By the way, you know, we

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Speaker 1: can actually put more money if we choose to, but

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Speaker 1: we're you know, the percentage is what is it.

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Speaker 2: Eleven eleven and a half now, and then it's going

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Speaker 2: to twelve percent next year. So it's a it's a

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Speaker 2: sizeable amount.

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Speaker 1: It's quite so. And in some cases, I know at universities,

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Speaker 1: if you're an academic, you can get you get seventeen.

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Speaker 2: That is true. That is true. Certain industries like universities,

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Speaker 2: like certain public servants get a much.

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Speaker 1: Larger contribution, and that doesn't come out of their wage.

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Speaker 1: It's the institution paying them a much bigger contribution, which

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Speaker 1: is which is another reason why you need to do

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Speaker 1: it in some cases like the police, et cetera, because

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Speaker 1: you need to attract people into those industries. And that's

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Speaker 1: a that's a big plus. It doesn't away from the wage.

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Speaker 1: It's just more bigger contribution. So I do want to

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Speaker 1: talk to you about yourself, but I just see to

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Speaker 1: me and I talk about this a lot. I think

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Speaker 1: one of the greatest economic contributions any politician has ever

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Speaker 1: made in the history of Australia is this initiative.

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Speaker 2: I totally agree, and in fact, I mean I've just

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Speaker 2: come back from a trip to the US and Canada,

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Speaker 2: and in both cases you have got sort of some

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Speaker 2: of the best sort of CEOs of financial institutions or

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Speaker 2: institutions around the world, saying if only we had the

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Speaker 2: Australian pension system. We are regarded as one of the best.

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Speaker 2: And it's because of the combination of things to our system.

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Speaker 2: Number one, as you just mentioned, it's compulsory, so it

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Speaker 2: has to go in. But secondly, it's universal, so it

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Speaker 2: applies to all working Australians or most working Australians, which

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Speaker 2: is so unusual. And then the third aspect to it

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Speaker 2: that really makes it work is the preservation, so you

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Speaker 2: can't touch it until you're reaching us.

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Speaker 1: We talk about that for a secon. Yeah, because in

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Speaker 1: terms of the I don't know if the rule I

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Speaker 1: don't remember now, but I don't know if the rules

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Speaker 1: I've always been the same, but.

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Speaker 2: Since it started in ninety two, they have been the

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Speaker 2: three sort of tenants of the super.

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Speaker 1: You cannot touch it super. There are some exceptions, like

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Speaker 1: there are a duress or hardship financial hard Yeah, but

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Speaker 1: you still have to be of a certain age, but

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Speaker 1: you have to play the ATO. I think the other

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Speaker 1: thing that was interesting about is the AHO sort of

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Speaker 1: administers this in a compliance sense, correct, So they're they're

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Speaker 1: watching it all the time, and I guess they have

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Speaker 1: interactions with the big funds like Aware totally so Aware

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Speaker 1: Super therefore has accumulated probably the responsibility of managing how

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Speaker 1: much money we talking about how much one eighty billion

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Speaker 1: dollars of Australian workers super innovation That could be the

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Speaker 1: superinnovation of someone who's eighteen years of age, or could

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Speaker 1: be the super that's accumulated for someone who's sixty four

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Speaker 1: point nine.

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Speaker 2: Years of age, yes, and or someone in their nineties

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Speaker 2: or equivalent.

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Speaker 1: Equally, I should say, because someone in the nighties could

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Speaker 1: have the super innovations.

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Speaker 2: They're in retirement phase, so you're now managing the time.

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Speaker 1: So you're now making sure that they get a return correct, correct,

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Speaker 1: they can keep them healthy and happy.

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Speaker 2: Correct and helping them with their income stream and essentially

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Speaker 2: they're they're in withdrawal phase right, so it's like their

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Speaker 2: income for retirement. So ultimately what that I want to know.

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Speaker 1: Where So it's a big deal. You've got to invest

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Speaker 1: their money, so you just don't grab this super innovation

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Speaker 1: money and sticking in the bank. No, no, say hopefully

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Speaker 1: the bank's going to pay you high industry because during

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Speaker 1: the during the COVID period, you were going to get

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Speaker 1: like point one of a percent. You're getting nothing, correct,

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Speaker 1: So you're always sort of you or your organization is

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Speaker 1: always juggling looking for the best investment as part of

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Speaker 1: your portfolio. So you run a portfolio of investments. It's

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Speaker 1: a lot different to what it was when it first started.

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Speaker 1: Now it's much more complex, many more asset classes, a

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Speaker 1: lot more probably a lot more to invest, and a

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Speaker 1: lot more responsibility and a lot more awareness part in

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Speaker 1: the pun but a lot more awareness of the owner

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Speaker 1: of the super fund. The individuals were much more sensitive

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Speaker 1: to increases and decreases. This week we had like a

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Speaker 1: crazy stuff going on in the shop market and we

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Speaker 1: had a reservand government come out and say, look, I

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Speaker 1: don't react. She doesn't react to stock market changes like that,

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Speaker 1: which is volatility. How do you deal with volatility? Is

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Speaker 1: so what happened on what did you What did you

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Speaker 1: do on Monday morning at four am when the four

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Speaker 1: am Friday Saturday morning at four am, when the US

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Speaker 1: market was overreacting in New York and you knew that

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Speaker 1: was going to bleed into Japan and Australia everywhere else.

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Speaker 1: Do you get woken up?

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Speaker 2: No, So this is this is one of the I

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Speaker 2: think the real treasures of the of being running a

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Speaker 2: super fund versus just the day in, day out, if

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Speaker 2: it's just pure investments and as short term is that

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Speaker 2: if you think about a super fund, what we're doing

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Speaker 2: is investing for the long term for people's retirement, right,

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Speaker 2: And so ultimately the way that you set up the

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Speaker 2: different funds and the different options is with a really

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Speaker 2: long term in mind, and so things like the volatility

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Speaker 2: in the markets, in a way, really what we're doing

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Speaker 2: is sitting on the side ready to swoop in and

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Speaker 2: actually get some assets. Some equities fall down, but we're

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Speaker 2: not overreacting to it because typically the a fund, like

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Speaker 2: a we're super we are so diversified. So we are

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Speaker 2: as you were saying earlier, we're in equities, we're in bonds,

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Speaker 2: we're in cash, we're in private equity, we're in infrastructure,

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Speaker 2: and a lot of our infrastructure is sort of very

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Speaker 2: consistent cash flows linked to CPI, so it just chugs

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Speaker 2: along really nicely. So the trick from a long term

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Speaker 2: mindset is not to overreact to what's going on in

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Speaker 2: the markets. But because we're in, we're growing so significantly

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Speaker 2: and the cash that's coming in, we're then able to

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Speaker 2: deploy that really nicely when we're seeing these volatile moments

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Speaker 2: and really get get in at quite quite a good point.

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Speaker 2: So ultimately you don't tend to overreact as a super

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Speaker 2: fun and in fact, it's almost dangerous to being playing

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Speaker 2: the market too much from a super fund perspective, because

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Speaker 2: it's you've got to think long term.

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Speaker 1: And I would expect and I don't know, but but

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Speaker 1: the ABS and the IRBA have liaison with organizations like

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Speaker 1: yourself as well as just walking around the streets and

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Speaker 1: talking Toffish coffee shop bonus, and both of them are

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Speaker 1: trying to gather data and opinions from markets. I mean,

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Speaker 1: if you're being asked to go to Canada in the

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Speaker 1: US and talk to people from the USA law, I

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Speaker 1: think Jamie Diamond might have even been at one of

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Speaker 1: those meetings. And I actually saw somewhere in the notes

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Speaker 1: that you've got I think I think I said you

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Speaker 1: had dinner in the UK with King Charles and the

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Speaker 1: Prime Minister.

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Speaker 2: Right, Yes, was that over super yeah, well about our system, yes,

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Speaker 2: about our system and the chancellor as.

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Speaker 1: Well, the literally chances of being their treasurer.

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Speaker 2: They're being their treasurer. Thank you. They are another country

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Speaker 2: that is looking at our system and saying they have

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Speaker 2: got it right. If you look at the amount, So

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Speaker 2: we have got the fourth largest asset pool or people's

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Speaker 2: money for retirement of any country around the world. But

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Speaker 2: you think about our sides of our economy, we're ranked

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Speaker 2: twelve four thirteen, so we're punching way above our weight.

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Speaker 2: So they're looking at our system going what is it

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Speaker 2: that's so unique about that system and why is it

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Speaker 2: working so well? And so I was speaking at the

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Speaker 2: Prime Minister's event it's an investment summit that they run

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Speaker 2: every two years, on a panel with Jamie Diamond and

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Speaker 2: speaking about our system and feeling very proud to represent

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Speaker 2: Australia in that.

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Speaker 1: Wow, that's cool.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it was very cool. And then we got to

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Speaker 2: go and have dinner yes, and with Pallas with the

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Speaker 2: King afterwards. Did you know that was my career?

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Speaker 1: This is crazy? What are you supposed to do?

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Speaker 2: Funnily enough, I had practiced my curt'sies, my royal curtsies,

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Speaker 2: but when I was in the room with sort of

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Speaker 2: about eight others, those that were speaking at the event

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Speaker 2: and talking with King Charles, no one else. It was

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Speaker 2: a handshake. It was very formal. It was a handshake,

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Speaker 2: so I just followed suit, even though I practiced my curtsy.

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Speaker 1: That's pretty cool.

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Speaker 2: It was very cool.

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Speaker 1: I don't know. I come from a generation where you like,

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Speaker 1: I wouldn't courage because I'm man, but I definitely my

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Speaker 1: generation would definitely would bow end or curtsey for a

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Speaker 1: female of my generation. I think you're younger than me

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Speaker 1: and substantially younger than me, but but it doesn't matter.

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Speaker 1: Even your generation would still probably curtsy. Younger people probably

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Speaker 1: say no, we just shake hands and look him in

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Speaker 1: the eye. I just fosh question.

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Speaker 2: He did, and we had actually a lovely conversation for

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Speaker 2: a couple of minutes. So because he had known that

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Speaker 2: I was over there representing Australia and the Punches system,

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Speaker 2: so he went straight there.

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Speaker 4: He said, oh, I hear you're one of those Ozzie funds,

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Speaker 4: and so I told him a little bit about it,

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Speaker 4: but I also congratulated because one of the things that

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Speaker 4: Aware Super is known for is for the out responsible ethos,

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Speaker 4: we're one of the top performing funds, and we invest

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Speaker 4: very responsibly, and so we've done a.

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Speaker 2: Lot in climate change. Climate ethnically, yes, and so we've

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Speaker 2: done a lot in climate change. But I also congratulated

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Speaker 2: King Charles for the work I mean he has if

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Speaker 2: you go back decades, he was calling out what is

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Speaker 2: happening from a climate change.

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Speaker 1: Perspective, So that had been criticized.

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Speaker 2: For it to be criticized for doing that totally much.

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Speaker 1: More courageous if you do that in the face of criticism, correct.

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Speaker 2: And so then I sort of told him a little

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Speaker 2: bit that we were we were very strong in that

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Speaker 2: area and how we're transitioning our portfolio. So he engaged

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Speaker 2: in that conversation. Then he wanted to know where we

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Speaker 2: invested in hydrogen, and he sort of went down that

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Speaker 2: line and it was a really lovely conversation.

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Speaker 1: I want to go before I go the breakthrough, I

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Speaker 1: do want to ask you, how does a young woman,

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Speaker 1: at some stage in her life end up becoming the

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Speaker 1: CEO of such a big organization, for such a huge industry,

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Speaker 1: on on any basis, on any scale you want to

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Speaker 1: you want to measure it. Who the hell are you

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Speaker 1: where'd you come from? Had you had you school arrived?

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Speaker 1: Not that I'm in disbelieve, but I just I'd love

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Speaker 1: to know how it happened. Where were you born?

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Speaker 2: I like, where do I start? So well? I was

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Speaker 2: born in Bathist, so I am a country girl and

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Speaker 2: my parents were both teachers. So talking about actually being

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Speaker 2: influenced by your parents, I saw the impact that they

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Speaker 2: had on their students, and I like, I knew that

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Speaker 2: whatever I went on to do, I wanted to make

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Speaker 2: a difference like they did, because it was really powerful.

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Speaker 2: But I did work experience with my uncle in year

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Speaker 2: ten at Goodyear and I went, Wow, this Goodyear tire. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: he was the CFO of Goodyear and I went, this

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Speaker 2: business thing is really interesting, isn't it. Ah, I'm actually

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Speaker 2: quite interested in that. And so as a young kid

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Speaker 2: from Bathist, I applied to several scholarships needing to sort

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Speaker 2: of find my way to the big smoke, and was

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Speaker 2: lucky enough to get a co op scholarship at UNSW

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Speaker 2: That was mark and finance, and so I went to UNSW.

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Speaker 2: I was always mathematical. I got the math side very easily.

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Speaker 2: I was lucky that way. And so but doing marketing

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Speaker 2: and finance. It was like a slightly schizophrenic brain. I

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Speaker 2: loved it.

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Speaker 1: It's a double major.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I love the consumer behavior side and what

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Speaker 2: makes us tick and why are we buying things? Why

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Speaker 2: are we doing certain things? But I also loved learning

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Speaker 2: about the markets and how that works. And ultimately through

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Speaker 2: that then got more into finance or financial services, landed

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Speaker 2: a job. At that time it was called Banker's.

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Speaker 1: Trust bt BT. Yeah h Westpac went on to buy Yes.

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Speaker 2: That is correct, and that for me was sort of

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Speaker 2: my first exposure. You know, this young kid from Bathist

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Speaker 2: I really did not know about asset management and all,

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Speaker 2: you know, how all these things happen. But really through

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Speaker 2: that that is sort of the beginning of my journey

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Speaker 2: from there. From there, I then I was one of

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Speaker 2: these wonderlust people. I wanted to go and see the world.

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Speaker 2: How do I do that? Oh? I think I'll go

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Speaker 2: into an MBA. So I was lucky enough to get

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Speaker 2: the Fulbright scholar scholarship.

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Speaker 1: I'm ucky to get a full brow scholarship. You gotta

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Speaker 1: be pretty smart, A.

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Speaker 2: Bit of a conbo. Yeah, But there was luck in

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Speaker 2: it too, I have to say, and was really fortunate

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Speaker 2: to go and do an NBA at Yale University, which

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Speaker 2: was just an incredible couple of years meeting some of

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Speaker 2: the most incredible people around the world. And then from

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Speaker 2: there it went to McKinsey Company in London, but worked

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Speaker 2: for a lot of financial service companies there throughout Europe.

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Speaker 1: As a McKinsey consultant.

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Speaker 2: As a McKinsey consultant, then went to followed my husband,

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Speaker 2: well boyfriend at the time but now husband. He got

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Speaker 2: a promotion to New York. So I was like, New

380
00:20:52,400 --> 00:20:55,480
Speaker 2: York sounds fantastic, let's do that. Was lucky enough to

381
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Speaker 2: work for Merrill Lynch at that time, essentially ran an

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00:21:01,280 --> 00:21:06,119
Speaker 2: international business unit of Merrill Lynch, so got this amazing experience.

383
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Speaker 2: I was twenty nine years of age at that point.

384
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Speaker 2: I cannot when I think about that and I think

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Speaker 2: about the gentleman that backed me and backed my potential,

386
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Speaker 2: I still think, wow, they put me in charge on

387
00:21:15,600 --> 00:21:19,680
Speaker 2: this international business unit. Of twenty nine, had my daughter

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Speaker 2: over in New York, so she is an American citizen

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Speaker 2: as well as an Australian citizen. And then when pregnant

390
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Speaker 2: with my second child, I was like, right, this small

391
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Speaker 2: New York apartment. We've either got to move out to

392
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Speaker 2: the burbs or you got to come home. It was

393
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Speaker 2: a perfect time, having been overseas for eleven years to

394
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Speaker 2: come home. I was missing home at that point, and

395
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Speaker 2: at that point was pregnant with my second child and

396
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Speaker 2: went back to bt Well. At this point it was

397
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Speaker 2: inside we Westpac you're right, and then worked there for

398
00:21:50,600 --> 00:21:53,760
Speaker 2: seven years in all sorts of different areas. And that's

399
00:21:53,800 --> 00:21:56,200
Speaker 2: certainly what I say to sort of young people coming up.

400
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Speaker 2: I'm like, don't get wedded to one thing if you

401
00:21:59,680 --> 00:22:02,320
Speaker 2: really want to create impact and go on and do

402
00:22:02,400 --> 00:22:05,320
Speaker 2: things like just try your hand at different things and

403
00:22:05,440 --> 00:22:07,679
Speaker 2: learn different things. So I did everything from marketing to

404
00:22:07,760 --> 00:22:12,399
Speaker 2: ops to digital to running the super business. At that

405
00:22:12,560 --> 00:22:17,520
Speaker 2: point though, I had this yearning inside me. I thought,

406
00:22:18,440 --> 00:22:21,199
Speaker 2: I feel like it's time for me to run an

407
00:22:21,400 --> 00:22:25,240
Speaker 2: entity or run a business, because for me, I worked

408
00:22:25,240 --> 00:22:28,840
Speaker 2: out that what really mattered I fell to the performance

409
00:22:28,840 --> 00:22:31,879
Speaker 2: of an organization is the culture of an organization and

410
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Speaker 2: the people in it. And I really wanted to almost

411
00:22:35,040 --> 00:22:38,359
Speaker 2: prove to myself that if you created or worked in

412
00:22:38,359 --> 00:22:42,480
Speaker 2: an organization where you got real high performance and people

413
00:22:42,480 --> 00:22:45,480
Speaker 2: that really wanted to achieve and were ambitious, but you

414
00:22:45,600 --> 00:22:49,960
Speaker 2: actually also combined it with a real care and real

415
00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:56,159
Speaker 2: compassion and real empathy for people, and the right mix

416
00:22:56,280 --> 00:22:59,840
Speaker 2: of that too that was powerful. And so I got

417
00:22:59,840 --> 00:23:03,720
Speaker 2: to run MetLife here in Australia. MetLife is a global

418
00:23:03,800 --> 00:23:06,040
Speaker 2: life insuran, but I ran the Australian business.

419
00:23:06,840 --> 00:23:13,040
Speaker 1: And you run the life insurance as in actual the

420
00:23:13,119 --> 00:23:17,359
Speaker 1: death and trauma, but the fund managing the funds in sorry,

421
00:23:17,440 --> 00:23:20,280
Speaker 1: managing the premiums that you received, or the whole business.

422
00:23:20,200 --> 00:23:22,399
Speaker 2: That asset management was run out of New York, so

423
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Speaker 2: I wasn't running the actual future business.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

425
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Speaker 2: And when I took that role, it was actually at

426
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Speaker 2: a loss. They were losing money at that point an

427
00:23:34,760 --> 00:23:38,520
Speaker 2: eighth in the market, and within four years it was

428
00:23:38,640 --> 00:23:41,119
Speaker 2: a really significant profit and we were number three in

429
00:23:41,160 --> 00:23:45,480
Speaker 2: the market. And wow, And yes the strategy was right,

430
00:23:45,720 --> 00:23:48,239
Speaker 2: but it was actually the culture and the people that

431
00:23:48,400 --> 00:23:51,439
Speaker 2: made all the difference. Then and then I got the

432
00:23:51,440 --> 00:23:54,520
Speaker 2: phone call would I contemplate coming and being the CEO

433
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Speaker 2: of at that time First State Super and for me

434
00:23:58,480 --> 00:24:00,959
Speaker 2: a little bit like I can, I can detective passion

435
00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:02,840
Speaker 2: in you for Superannuation.

436
00:24:02,280 --> 00:24:04,920
Speaker 1: Which is great because I know what happened with my dad.

437
00:24:05,240 --> 00:24:08,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, but the exact same thing happened to me. I

438
00:24:08,440 --> 00:24:12,800
Speaker 2: had this passion for superannuation because I'd seen the impact

439
00:24:12,800 --> 00:24:15,359
Speaker 2: that had, the positive impact it had on my parents

440
00:24:15,400 --> 00:24:18,200
Speaker 2: as teachers. You know, they were not on what i'd

441
00:24:18,240 --> 00:24:21,960
Speaker 2: call great salaries, but that they put every extra distrestionary,

442
00:24:22,200 --> 00:24:26,040
Speaker 2: discretionary dollar they could into their super And so now

443
00:24:26,080 --> 00:24:29,280
Speaker 2: seeing them in retirement traveling around the world having the

444
00:24:29,320 --> 00:24:33,639
Speaker 2: most beautiful life because of the supernuation system, I was like,

445
00:24:34,040 --> 00:24:36,280
Speaker 2: I want to make a difference. I want to be

446
00:24:36,320 --> 00:24:39,960
Speaker 2: part of that. It's so systemically important in Australia and

447
00:24:40,119 --> 00:24:42,679
Speaker 2: you actually do get to have a real impact on

448
00:24:42,760 --> 00:24:45,960
Speaker 2: people's lives. And so for me, when I got that

449
00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:48,919
Speaker 2: phone call, I just knew it was almost like my

450
00:24:49,119 --> 00:24:53,600
Speaker 2: career and my life had been working towards that moment. So, yeah,

451
00:24:53,640 --> 00:24:54,919
Speaker 2: I feel very privileged.

452
00:24:56,440 --> 00:25:01,200
Speaker 1: It's amazing down like how some little thought narration of

453
00:25:01,240 --> 00:25:04,880
Speaker 1: your parents both being teachers, but some little thought, actually

454
00:25:05,400 --> 00:25:08,040
Speaker 1: a lot of stuff happened in between, actually was the

455
00:25:08,840 --> 00:25:11,480
Speaker 1: original kernel of where you end up. It takes a

456
00:25:11,520 --> 00:25:13,520
Speaker 1: lot of execution, I get it. And by the way,

457
00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:16,760
Speaker 1: you manage to get yourself well credentialed, and I want

458
00:25:16,800 --> 00:25:19,000
Speaker 1: to talk I want to talk about that because I

459
00:25:19,040 --> 00:25:23,119
Speaker 1: think it's important for any listeners, especially younger people, and

460
00:25:23,680 --> 00:25:27,920
Speaker 1: especially younger females for that matter, and risk taking and

461
00:25:27,960 --> 00:25:30,760
Speaker 1: following a level of curiosity. I want to talk about

462
00:25:30,760 --> 00:25:40,120
Speaker 1: I'm going to go the brain comes straight back. I've

463
00:25:40,160 --> 00:25:43,359
Speaker 1: actually break from the Stewart Now she's the CEO of

464
00:25:43,400 --> 00:25:46,840
Speaker 1: Aware super which is second third fourth largest in the country,

465
00:25:47,200 --> 00:25:49,600
Speaker 1: third largest super funder the country, one hundred and eighty

466
00:25:49,680 --> 00:25:54,000
Speaker 1: or billion dollars under management, a huge responsibility. We went

467
00:25:54,040 --> 00:25:56,359
Speaker 1: through the story of how you got there. You know,

468
00:25:56,400 --> 00:26:01,040
Speaker 1: a young girl, daughter of two teach isn't from bathost

469
00:26:01,840 --> 00:26:03,840
Speaker 1: one of the things. But it's easy to gloss over

470
00:26:03,880 --> 00:26:05,600
Speaker 1: these things. Is said, oh wow, you know, it's just

471
00:26:05,760 --> 00:26:07,919
Speaker 1: like she could do this, you did that. But there

472
00:26:07,960 --> 00:26:10,760
Speaker 1: was a lot of execution in this process, and some

473
00:26:11,080 --> 00:26:13,400
Speaker 1: of which is a little bit of luck, but there's

474
00:26:13,440 --> 00:26:16,960
Speaker 1: also taking advantage of luck. You became very well credential.

475
00:26:17,040 --> 00:26:19,160
Speaker 1: So one of the things you mentioned is that you

476
00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:21,919
Speaker 1: you won the full Bright Scholarship, or more importantly, you

477
00:26:21,920 --> 00:26:24,800
Speaker 1: applied for full Broken scholarship. So more importantly, you became

478
00:26:24,880 --> 00:26:27,360
Speaker 1: aware of a thing called a full broad scholarship.

479
00:26:27,560 --> 00:26:27,879
Speaker 2: Correct.

480
00:26:27,920 --> 00:26:31,960
Speaker 1: How important is that to be on the game knowing

481
00:26:32,080 --> 00:26:33,959
Speaker 1: what's available? And how do you go about that when

482
00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:36,240
Speaker 1: you're a young kid. So you're you know, here's a

483
00:26:36,280 --> 00:26:41,800
Speaker 1: young woman. I guess you were at university and how

484
00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:43,280
Speaker 1: do you find out there's a thing? And why is

485
00:26:43,280 --> 00:26:45,720
Speaker 1: a full Bright scholarship important? And what does a full

486
00:26:45,760 --> 00:26:48,640
Speaker 1: Bright scholarship mean? Et cetera. How do you find about

487
00:26:48,640 --> 00:26:50,200
Speaker 1: that stuff? Because you know, a lot of young people

488
00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:52,760
Speaker 1: don't understand this is academic qualification. A lot of people

489
00:26:52,760 --> 00:26:56,720
Speaker 1: say it's worth nothing anymore. I think it's an argument

490
00:26:56,760 --> 00:26:58,640
Speaker 1: both ways. If you're trying to do what you do,

491
00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:02,520
Speaker 1: it's worth a lot because it build steps and opportunities totally.

492
00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:04,960
Speaker 1: So how did you find out about a full grace recholarship?

493
00:27:05,040 --> 00:27:07,560
Speaker 2: It's a I would say there was a couple of

494
00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:12,240
Speaker 2: things that made that made that step for me. First

495
00:27:12,320 --> 00:27:15,439
Speaker 2: of all, I did have an amazing mentor when I

496
00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:18,879
Speaker 2: was at BT who she was like, d you have

497
00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:21,800
Speaker 2: got so many ideas going on in that brain of yours,

498
00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:26,119
Speaker 2: and I can see them coming out. But you are

499
00:27:26,240 --> 00:27:28,919
Speaker 2: not structured in the way that you think. You know,

500
00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:32,040
Speaker 2: you need to get way more structured so that you

501
00:27:32,160 --> 00:27:34,359
Speaker 2: know how to prioritize, you know, how to sort of

502
00:27:34,400 --> 00:27:38,199
Speaker 2: communicate clearly. So she was the one that said you

503
00:27:38,240 --> 00:27:40,760
Speaker 2: should think about an MBA, So she got the idea

504
00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:44,160
Speaker 2: into my head. So that was part one, but part

505
00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:47,080
Speaker 2: two was a little bit back to your risk taking

506
00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:53,880
Speaker 2: or being courageous. I think sometimes that that is I

507
00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:56,760
Speaker 2: don't think enough about how important that has been in

508
00:27:56,880 --> 00:28:00,119
Speaker 2: the things that I've done. So I have to go

509
00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:03,320
Speaker 2: out and see the world, and rodeo and I combine

510
00:28:03,359 --> 00:28:05,879
Speaker 2: the two. I want to go into an MBA overseas

511
00:28:06,440 --> 00:28:08,440
Speaker 2: and I want to go and see the world? Right,

512
00:28:08,520 --> 00:28:12,280
Speaker 2: how do I do that? And so literally at that stage,

513
00:28:12,400 --> 00:28:15,480
Speaker 2: you know, now you just go online and search scholarships.

514
00:28:15,520 --> 00:28:18,400
Speaker 2: At that point it was a book, and I looked

515
00:28:18,400 --> 00:28:20,760
Speaker 2: at all the scholarships, and I looked at which is

516
00:28:20,800 --> 00:28:22,720
Speaker 2: the one that's in the US, because I felt there

517
00:28:22,760 --> 00:28:26,320
Speaker 2: was some incredible MBAs and which one's worth the most.

518
00:28:27,080 --> 00:28:29,560
Speaker 2: It was as simple as that. So I actually applied

519
00:28:29,560 --> 00:28:33,120
Speaker 2: to a few different scholarships and then went through quite

520
00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:37,479
Speaker 2: a rigorous process and interviews. I'd never been interviewed before

521
00:28:37,640 --> 00:28:42,760
Speaker 2: like that, and actually had to write several essays about

522
00:28:43,400 --> 00:28:46,000
Speaker 2: because the full Bride is not just the impact that

523
00:28:46,280 --> 00:28:47,920
Speaker 2: you're going to have in a company, but what are

524
00:28:47,960 --> 00:28:51,040
Speaker 2: you going to have to Australia and the Australian economy.

525
00:28:51,240 --> 00:28:54,520
Speaker 2: So I remember writing an essay about that, and there

526
00:28:54,600 --> 00:28:57,320
Speaker 2: was this burning passion inside even as a twenty four

527
00:28:57,400 --> 00:29:00,400
Speaker 2: year old that I didn't realize two years later when

528
00:29:00,400 --> 00:29:04,160
Speaker 2: I went back and read that essay and it was

529
00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:07,040
Speaker 2: the reason I say it back to my parents is

530
00:29:07,160 --> 00:29:09,600
Speaker 2: I literally wrote in the essay I wanted to make

531
00:29:09,720 --> 00:29:13,240
Speaker 2: a difference and I think leadership can be done differently

532
00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:17,000
Speaker 2: than just the way it's being done today here in Australia,

533
00:29:17,560 --> 00:29:20,280
Speaker 2: and I want to go and learn around the world

534
00:29:20,560 --> 00:29:23,120
Speaker 2: and come back and apply that. I didn't know that

535
00:29:23,120 --> 00:29:24,880
Speaker 2: it would take me eleven years to come for the better,

536
00:29:25,440 --> 00:29:29,440
Speaker 2: the better the nation. And this was a very passionate.

537
00:29:29,440 --> 00:29:32,000
Speaker 1: It sounds lofty, but well, I know, I'm.

538
00:29:31,880 --> 00:29:34,440
Speaker 2: Like, wow, I was a lofty twenty four year old,

539
00:29:34,640 --> 00:29:37,320
Speaker 2: So there was obviously something inside me at that time

540
00:29:37,920 --> 00:29:43,320
Speaker 2: that was very I just it was a burning ambition

541
00:29:43,440 --> 00:29:44,280
Speaker 2: to make a difference.

542
00:29:44,600 --> 00:29:49,480
Speaker 1: So how important then, given that you given the process

543
00:29:49,520 --> 00:29:53,520
Speaker 1: you were embarked upon, that is, you know, researching through

544
00:29:53,520 --> 00:29:55,720
Speaker 1: books and stuff like that. Today as you say, people

545
00:29:55,720 --> 00:29:59,240
Speaker 1: would get on Google it, but there's the same deal.

546
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:02,680
Speaker 1: You could probably even go and ask you to give

547
00:30:02,680 --> 00:30:05,320
Speaker 1: you the answer, but it doesn't really matter. It's the

548
00:30:05,400 --> 00:30:09,400
Speaker 1: exercising of curiosity. How important has curiosity being to you

549
00:30:09,480 --> 00:30:13,200
Speaker 1: in building your your cred all the way through? Just

550
00:30:13,200 --> 00:30:15,720
Speaker 1: because then went on to because you did you did

551
00:30:15,760 --> 00:30:20,040
Speaker 1: your m b A under the scholarship, you were in America.

552
00:30:20,280 --> 00:30:22,720
Speaker 1: You then went got a job. I think you said, McKinsey,

553
00:30:25,520 --> 00:30:27,800
Speaker 1: How did you know about McKinsey. There's a curre. I

554
00:30:27,840 --> 00:30:30,240
Speaker 1: mean that because this is a if I was a map,

555
00:30:30,280 --> 00:30:32,800
Speaker 1: a perfect path for somebody to get into your role

556
00:30:32,840 --> 00:30:36,120
Speaker 1: that particularly for female, that's the path I would map.

557
00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:41,640
Speaker 1: So there's credit, it's credentialed, Yes, for your job currently.

558
00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:43,000
Speaker 2: You're making me so almost a little boring.

559
00:30:43,880 --> 00:30:48,160
Speaker 1: Well it sounds yes, but it sounds a bit boring,

560
00:30:48,160 --> 00:30:51,840
Speaker 1: but it's not because it's extraordinarily curiosity is really important.

561
00:30:52,080 --> 00:30:54,000
Speaker 1: Part of that learning is really important, part of that

562
00:30:54,120 --> 00:30:56,840
Speaker 1: taking risk, that is taking yourself out of or Sydney

563
00:30:56,920 --> 00:30:58,960
Speaker 1: or University of South wal I was putting yourself in

564
00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:01,680
Speaker 1: wherever you're putting yourself in dealing with people. McKinzie is

565
00:31:02,080 --> 00:31:06,520
Speaker 1: nightmarish or particularly their clients, because there's a high expectation.

566
00:31:06,120 --> 00:31:08,440
Speaker 2: Is very comparative, high expectations.

567
00:31:08,040 --> 00:31:10,760
Speaker 1: Very high expectations of the people, of yourself and also

568
00:31:10,880 --> 00:31:14,680
Speaker 1: of the people around you and your clients. You know,

569
00:31:14,680 --> 00:31:16,760
Speaker 1: because you pay a lot of money from someone to

570
00:31:16,760 --> 00:31:20,080
Speaker 1: do somebody who's a McKinsey consultant to do some work

571
00:31:20,120 --> 00:31:23,440
Speaker 1: for you, so you want a bloody good outcome. So

572
00:31:23,440 --> 00:31:26,720
Speaker 1: that takes courage. So it's not boring. It is boring

573
00:31:26,800 --> 00:31:28,440
Speaker 1: in terms of I just look at the in a

574
00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:32,560
Speaker 1: linear sense, but standardized. If I look at a linear sense,

575
00:31:32,560 --> 00:31:34,760
Speaker 1: which maybe looked as boring, but it's standarized. But at

576
00:31:34,760 --> 00:31:36,240
Speaker 1: the same time you're doing it, how do you know

577
00:31:36,280 --> 00:31:38,120
Speaker 1: about this linear thing? Or did you just pick it up?

578
00:31:38,120 --> 00:31:39,520
Speaker 1: Each set will pay what's in front of you.

579
00:31:39,600 --> 00:31:42,479
Speaker 2: Well, it's funny and I'm off it. Well I am asked.

580
00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:47,080
Speaker 2: And by the way, I don't want to make it

581
00:31:47,120 --> 00:31:49,320
Speaker 2: sound like it's all been perfect in a better roses

582
00:31:49,360 --> 00:31:51,200
Speaker 2: by the way, because it hasn't. And I'm sure we'll

583
00:31:51,240 --> 00:31:53,160
Speaker 2: come on time, because I wouldn't want people to have

584
00:31:53,200 --> 00:31:55,720
Speaker 2: the impression that was just this lovely linear you know

585
00:31:55,880 --> 00:32:00,320
Speaker 2: it all it sounds, but I do think the two

586
00:32:00,360 --> 00:32:04,200
Speaker 2: words that you've just used, which is real courage and

587
00:32:04,880 --> 00:32:07,560
Speaker 2: willing to just back yourself and give something a go,

588
00:32:07,920 --> 00:32:10,240
Speaker 2: and that mindset of like, what's the worst thing that

589
00:32:10,280 --> 00:32:12,080
Speaker 2: could happen if this doesn't work? So if I head

590
00:32:12,120 --> 00:32:15,240
Speaker 2: up overseas, what's the worst thing that can happen, I

591
00:32:15,360 --> 00:32:16,880
Speaker 2: just come home if it doesn't, you know, if it

592
00:32:16,880 --> 00:32:20,600
Speaker 2: doesn't work out. So that has really helped. So the courage,

593
00:32:20,600 --> 00:32:23,880
Speaker 2: But the curiosity I think, I mean, I think people

594
00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:26,280
Speaker 2: that know me would describe me as a real learning person.

595
00:32:26,320 --> 00:32:29,160
Speaker 2: I'm just always wanting to learn. Hence, while I love podcasts,

596
00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:31,320
Speaker 2: you know, my family are sick of me going oh

597
00:32:31,320 --> 00:32:33,160
Speaker 2: I was listening to this podcast and blah blah blah blah.

598
00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:34,719
Speaker 2: They're like, enough with the podcast.

599
00:32:34,760 --> 00:32:36,840
Speaker 1: I'll say you now because I listen to you on

600
00:32:36,880 --> 00:32:38,200
Speaker 1: the podcast.

601
00:32:37,800 --> 00:32:42,640
Speaker 2: They'll be like, oh mum, really anyway. So the curiosity,

602
00:32:42,720 --> 00:32:45,760
Speaker 2: so I've always been like just wonder us, so what

603
00:32:45,960 --> 00:32:48,360
Speaker 2: is going on? Why is that happening? What's that person doing?

604
00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:51,080
Speaker 2: So interestingly, the reason I got into the whole McKinsey

605
00:32:51,120 --> 00:32:54,080
Speaker 2: and Company was not because it was the dumb thing

606
00:32:54,120 --> 00:32:57,400
Speaker 2: out of an NBA. It was that someone who knew

607
00:32:57,480 --> 00:32:59,840
Speaker 2: I loved solving problems, was like, oh, you should meet

608
00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:02,400
Speaker 2: so and so. And that person happened to work at

609
00:33:02,440 --> 00:33:04,520
Speaker 2: McKinsey and Company. And I was like, what is this thing?

610
00:33:04,640 --> 00:33:08,520
Speaker 2: What is management consulting? That sounds really interesting? Oh you

611
00:33:08,560 --> 00:33:11,200
Speaker 2: get to solve different problems every three or four months. Oh,

612
00:33:11,240 --> 00:33:14,280
Speaker 2: that sounds like me. And so it was. It was

613
00:33:14,320 --> 00:33:16,080
Speaker 2: the curiosity. So those two things.

614
00:33:16,080 --> 00:33:19,320
Speaker 1: But how do you in that role though? So when

615
00:33:19,360 --> 00:33:23,240
Speaker 1: you see someone suggested something to you, was that just

616
00:33:23,760 --> 00:33:26,280
Speaker 1: an acquaintance lucky lucky that is? Or was or did

617
00:33:26,280 --> 00:33:28,080
Speaker 1: you come about making sure that you knew people?

618
00:33:28,840 --> 00:33:31,000
Speaker 2: Well, I'm about to come on to that actually, because

619
00:33:31,080 --> 00:33:34,080
Speaker 2: I'd say courage and curiosity. But the two other things

620
00:33:34,120 --> 00:33:36,479
Speaker 2: that have really worked for me. One was, and I

621
00:33:36,480 --> 00:33:40,000
Speaker 2: think I worked this out later in the game quite

622
00:33:40,000 --> 00:33:43,800
Speaker 2: frankly than I should have, but the importance of connections,

623
00:33:44,400 --> 00:33:47,960
Speaker 2: and that actually meeting people and being curious about their

624
00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:52,360
Speaker 2: lives and what they're doing, and the importance of connections

625
00:33:52,440 --> 00:33:55,920
Speaker 2: and having that as part of your role or having

626
00:33:55,960 --> 00:33:58,760
Speaker 2: that as part of your day job versus just getting

627
00:33:58,800 --> 00:33:59,880
Speaker 2: so focused on your.

628
00:33:59,760 --> 00:34:02,200
Speaker 1: Tak to get to get out of the.

629
00:34:02,120 --> 00:34:05,560
Speaker 2: Weeds and meet people and just be curious. So those

630
00:34:05,640 --> 00:34:08,839
Speaker 2: connections have ultimately paid dividends. But I didn't do that

631
00:34:08,880 --> 00:34:13,200
Speaker 2: to be deliberaten. I'm not a networker, and in fact,

632
00:34:13,239 --> 00:34:15,640
Speaker 2: I railed against that for years, which is why I

633
00:34:15,680 --> 00:34:18,200
Speaker 2: didn't do as much of it as possible. But when

634
00:34:18,280 --> 00:34:21,120
Speaker 2: I actually worked out the power of connections and helping

635
00:34:21,120 --> 00:34:24,680
Speaker 2: people and they help you, that for me has unlocked

636
00:34:24,719 --> 00:34:28,560
Speaker 2: so much opportunity. And then the final one, which does

637
00:34:28,600 --> 00:34:30,960
Speaker 2: speak to the young twenty four year old and it

638
00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:33,800
Speaker 2: does speak to the type of leader that I want

639
00:34:33,840 --> 00:34:37,879
Speaker 2: to be, is care. So for me, I really care

640
00:34:37,960 --> 00:34:39,960
Speaker 2: for people, and I think you don't want to get

641
00:34:39,960 --> 00:34:43,479
Speaker 2: yourself in people leadership roles if actually you're just doing

642
00:34:43,480 --> 00:34:45,440
Speaker 2: it for the title or you're just doing it to

643
00:34:45,480 --> 00:34:48,240
Speaker 2: earn a bit more money. I think you do genuinely

644
00:34:48,280 --> 00:34:51,960
Speaker 2: have to care for people. And I think too many

645
00:34:52,320 --> 00:34:55,719
Speaker 2: leaders get into leadership or managers, I should say, get

646
00:34:55,719 --> 00:34:59,040
Speaker 2: into leadership positions and they don't have that care and

647
00:34:59,160 --> 00:35:02,200
Speaker 2: empathy for people, and that's where I think it often

648
00:35:02,239 --> 00:35:04,160
Speaker 2: creates quite toxic workplaces.

649
00:35:04,360 --> 00:35:08,480
Speaker 1: But what would you say to you know, because I

650
00:35:08,480 --> 00:35:13,040
Speaker 1: should rephrase this, A lot of people understand or at

651
00:35:13,120 --> 00:35:15,960
Speaker 1: least they've read about or been told about this connection piece,

652
00:35:16,080 --> 00:35:18,879
Speaker 1: and they tend to overspend too much time on that

653
00:35:19,280 --> 00:35:20,880
Speaker 1: and not enough time of being in the weeds. In

654
00:35:20,920 --> 00:35:24,279
Speaker 1: other words, building their skill, building up their resume. I

655
00:35:24,320 --> 00:35:26,520
Speaker 1: don't mean in terms of where they worked, but the

656
00:35:26,640 --> 00:35:30,080
Speaker 1: knowledge base. How did you ever get a period where

657
00:35:30,120 --> 00:35:32,040
Speaker 1: you felt like you're overbalancing one compared to the other.

658
00:35:32,360 --> 00:35:34,239
Speaker 2: Totally, totally and in fact, and.

659
00:35:34,200 --> 00:35:37,160
Speaker 1: I was wasting time in other words meaning people.

660
00:35:37,160 --> 00:35:43,880
Speaker 2: No, actually I was the opposite. So I got overlooked

661
00:35:44,040 --> 00:35:47,319
Speaker 2: for a role. So this is definitely I wouldn't call

662
00:35:47,520 --> 00:35:50,800
Speaker 2: this is one of those lessons learned. I got overlooked

663
00:35:50,800 --> 00:35:56,680
Speaker 2: for a role. And second prize for not getting the

664
00:35:56,760 --> 00:35:59,799
Speaker 2: role is I was fortunate enough to then be sent

665
00:35:59,840 --> 00:36:02,440
Speaker 2: to course at Harvard. Right, So I did a women

666
00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:07,080
Speaker 2: in Executive Leadership role at Harvard, and there was this

667
00:36:07,280 --> 00:36:11,040
Speaker 2: incredible lecturer called Francis Frye, and I'll never forget it.

668
00:36:11,400 --> 00:36:14,080
Speaker 2: She said, Look, ultimately, if you really want to succeed,

669
00:36:14,920 --> 00:36:17,839
Speaker 2: particularly in corporate life, I would say, is you have

670
00:36:17,920 --> 00:36:22,120
Speaker 2: to remember three things. Credibility, so being incredibly good at

671
00:36:22,120 --> 00:36:27,359
Speaker 2: your job, executive presence or just presence, and the way

672
00:36:27,400 --> 00:36:32,759
Speaker 2: that you present yourself and then connections and sponsorship, and

673
00:36:33,000 --> 00:36:36,080
Speaker 2: the problem with many women, so for all the research

674
00:36:36,120 --> 00:36:39,919
Speaker 2: that they've done is that women over index the first one,

675
00:36:40,000 --> 00:36:42,560
Speaker 2: the credibility. So you just get in, you do your job,

676
00:36:43,080 --> 00:36:45,160
Speaker 2: and you just think the rest will take care of itself.

677
00:36:45,160 --> 00:36:47,240
Speaker 2: They'll know that I'm doing a great job, and surely

678
00:36:47,560 --> 00:36:49,919
Speaker 2: you know then I'll get promoted. And if I looked

679
00:36:49,920 --> 00:36:53,799
Speaker 2: at myself at that point, I was I was so

680
00:36:53,920 --> 00:36:56,040
Speaker 2: focused on the credibility and doing a really good job.

681
00:36:56,040 --> 00:36:58,240
Speaker 3: But I was a young mum, I had two young kids,

682
00:36:58,520 --> 00:37:01,719
Speaker 3: and I did not put any credence on connecting with

683
00:37:01,800 --> 00:37:05,240
Speaker 3: people or networking, and I certainly didn't put any credence

684
00:37:05,280 --> 00:37:09,080
Speaker 3: on executive presence or how I showed up in a room.

685
00:37:09,200 --> 00:37:11,360
Speaker 2: In fact, i'd probably try and take the smallest amount

686
00:37:11,400 --> 00:37:14,239
Speaker 2: of space in the room. And it was just such

687
00:37:14,239 --> 00:37:17,399
Speaker 2: a dawning realization for me of what was going on

688
00:37:17,560 --> 00:37:21,440
Speaker 2: and how I was over indexing, quite frankly, focusing too

689
00:37:21,520 --> 00:37:25,520
Speaker 2: much on that, and that actually the power of really

690
00:37:25,560 --> 00:37:30,279
Speaker 2: strong connections is about building trust. It's about building relationships,

691
00:37:30,280 --> 00:37:32,279
Speaker 2: and you never know where that goes, but at the

692
00:37:32,320 --> 00:37:35,600
Speaker 2: heart of most things is trust, right, And so for me.

693
00:37:35,719 --> 00:37:39,400
Speaker 2: That was a real lightbulb moment and it really flipped

694
00:37:39,960 --> 00:37:42,279
Speaker 2: in my mind what was important and how you had

695
00:37:42,280 --> 00:37:44,760
Speaker 2: to get a good balance of all those three things.

696
00:37:45,320 --> 00:37:47,560
Speaker 1: And do you still maintain that totally?

697
00:37:47,800 --> 00:37:52,319
Speaker 2: Totally. Yeah. The strange thing is I naturally love being

698
00:37:52,320 --> 00:37:55,680
Speaker 2: with people, meeting people, and that has so helped me

699
00:37:55,719 --> 00:37:59,400
Speaker 2: throughout my career. I just hadn't, I think for me,

700
00:37:59,760 --> 00:38:01,920
Speaker 2: I was so busy as a young mum and I

701
00:38:02,040 --> 00:38:04,960
Speaker 2: just was like all about doing a good job. I

702
00:38:05,000 --> 00:38:08,360
Speaker 2: thought networking and meeting people that was just wasting time

703
00:38:09,280 --> 00:38:12,480
Speaker 2: because I didn't have enough time. Time was of the essence,

704
00:38:12,719 --> 00:38:15,040
Speaker 2: and I just did not see it as a priority

705
00:38:15,080 --> 00:38:16,200
Speaker 2: in my job at that time.

706
00:38:16,320 --> 00:38:18,200
Speaker 1: Also, you still had the kids, so how did you

707
00:38:18,280 --> 00:38:22,680
Speaker 1: then the children? So how did then did you reprioritize

708
00:38:22,719 --> 00:38:26,759
Speaker 1: your time to actually make connections and be in the executive,

709
00:38:29,719 --> 00:38:31,680
Speaker 1: be a good executive in front of people, in other words,

710
00:38:31,680 --> 00:38:34,240
Speaker 1: not taking up the smaller space, actually occupy your space.

711
00:38:34,600 --> 00:38:35,279
Speaker 1: How did you do that?

712
00:38:35,640 --> 00:38:39,320
Speaker 2: So it's really it's as boring as saying it's about

713
00:38:39,320 --> 00:38:43,880
Speaker 2: calendar management. So in any given week, you know, making

714
00:38:43,920 --> 00:38:47,000
Speaker 2: sure that you're prioritizing doing a good job at what

715
00:38:47,040 --> 00:38:50,120
Speaker 2: you're doing, but also key connections and who you're meeting

716
00:38:50,160 --> 00:38:53,239
Speaker 2: and what you're doing, and really making sure in any

717
00:38:53,239 --> 00:38:56,440
Speaker 2: given week or any given fortnighte. That you're prioritizing both

718
00:38:56,920 --> 00:39:01,560
Speaker 2: and you're managing your calendar equivalently. Equivalent now is certainly

719
00:39:01,600 --> 00:39:04,360
Speaker 2: making sure that I do connect sort of industry wide

720
00:39:04,360 --> 00:39:06,960
Speaker 2: and a whole bunch of our key stakeholders, whether that

721
00:39:07,080 --> 00:39:10,200
Speaker 2: be government, whether it be unions, whether that be big employers.

722
00:39:11,000 --> 00:39:13,279
Speaker 2: But also making sure in my diary is lots of

723
00:39:13,320 --> 00:39:18,600
Speaker 2: time for meeting amazing talent in our organization. I could

724
00:39:18,640 --> 00:39:21,480
Speaker 2: fill my diary up just by doing my job, you know,

725
00:39:22,040 --> 00:39:24,680
Speaker 2: the sort of what's going on in the all of

726
00:39:24,719 --> 00:39:27,359
Speaker 2: that side of things. But you have to manage your

727
00:39:27,360 --> 00:39:31,600
Speaker 2: calendar accordingly and realizing that that's a priority. They were

728
00:39:31,600 --> 00:39:32,320
Speaker 2: the two things.

729
00:39:32,440 --> 00:39:34,600
Speaker 1: So that's interesting. It's sort of like people. It's interesting

730
00:39:34,640 --> 00:39:36,480
Speaker 1: about that too many ways. As you're talking is that

731
00:39:36,560 --> 00:39:40,040
Speaker 1: awhere super is about managing its portfolio, which is diverse

732
00:39:42,160 --> 00:39:45,400
Speaker 1: for you. It's about managing your portfolio. So it's like

733
00:39:45,400 --> 00:39:48,600
Speaker 1: a portfolio management process totally. This is my portfolio. It's

734
00:39:49,320 --> 00:39:55,239
Speaker 1: external stakeholders, internal stakeholders as staff, it's markets, you know,

735
00:39:55,680 --> 00:39:57,560
Speaker 1: and you can fill in all the sub categories in

736
00:39:57,600 --> 00:40:00,759
Speaker 1: each one of those. That's my portfolio. So I've got

737
00:40:00,760 --> 00:40:04,680
Speaker 1: to manage this. Sometimes it's backfilling because you might be

738
00:40:05,600 --> 00:40:09,040
Speaker 1: under managing something, putting enough time because you had to

739
00:40:09,120 --> 00:40:11,760
Speaker 1: do something over here, something going on over here, dragged

740
00:40:11,800 --> 00:40:15,799
Speaker 1: you in, pulled you in. But sometimes it's back feeling something.

741
00:40:15,840 --> 00:40:19,360
Speaker 1: But each week, so as your approach you called a

742
00:40:19,400 --> 00:40:22,560
Speaker 1: diary management or calender management, which is sort of underplaying

743
00:40:22,560 --> 00:40:26,239
Speaker 1: it a little bit, I think, being humble, but you

744
00:40:26,320 --> 00:40:29,239
Speaker 1: really are running a portfolio of things that you need

745
00:40:29,280 --> 00:40:29,759
Speaker 1: to attend to.

746
00:40:30,640 --> 00:40:33,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think for me what I certainly do

747
00:40:33,640 --> 00:40:35,759
Speaker 2: and I do like a quarterly check in, but I

748
00:40:35,800 --> 00:40:38,040
Speaker 2: do a major thing at the beginning of every year.

749
00:40:38,080 --> 00:40:40,560
Speaker 2: I go right at the end of the day, what

750
00:40:40,600 --> 00:40:43,880
Speaker 2: do I really want to achieve this year? And both

751
00:40:44,280 --> 00:40:48,239
Speaker 2: personally and professionally, but on the professional side, in the

752
00:40:48,320 --> 00:40:51,400
Speaker 2: role of a CEO, what are the five most important

753
00:40:51,400 --> 00:40:53,919
Speaker 2: things I got to do? And so I write them down,

754
00:40:53,960 --> 00:40:56,880
Speaker 2: I put them right in front of me, and I

755
00:40:57,239 --> 00:41:00,279
Speaker 2: just come back really regularly to check in that that's

756
00:41:00,320 --> 00:41:03,640
Speaker 2: where my time and attention is focused. Because it's so

757
00:41:03,680 --> 00:41:07,280
Speaker 2: easy to go off to one thing that it's urgent

758
00:41:07,400 --> 00:41:10,239
Speaker 2: or in fact it's just interesting to you. You know,

759
00:41:10,320 --> 00:41:13,359
Speaker 2: both things happen, and so for me, it's always coming

760
00:41:13,400 --> 00:41:15,640
Speaker 2: back to what's the most important elements of my role

761
00:41:15,680 --> 00:41:17,560
Speaker 2: and where can I have the most impact for the

762
00:41:17,640 --> 00:41:20,000
Speaker 2: team and for our members importantly.

763
00:41:19,600 --> 00:41:21,640
Speaker 1: Good I just I mean, first of my person I

764
00:41:21,640 --> 00:41:25,319
Speaker 1: wonder if we could split up into words that I use,

765
00:41:25,560 --> 00:41:28,320
Speaker 1: categories I use, but because I like to, I like

766
00:41:28,400 --> 00:41:31,880
Speaker 1: to categorize. So I look at it as strategic and tactical,

767
00:41:32,200 --> 00:41:36,400
Speaker 1: and sometimes it's very easy. I'm an executive, I'm an

768
00:41:36,480 --> 00:41:38,400
Speaker 1: MD of a business. So what I do is I

769
00:41:38,560 --> 00:41:41,600
Speaker 1: get dragged into the tactic was I like the tactical stuff.

770
00:41:41,960 --> 00:41:44,480
Speaker 1: I enjoy it, and it's easy for me to jump

771
00:41:44,480 --> 00:41:46,120
Speaker 1: into the tactical. That could be putting a bush fire

772
00:41:46,160 --> 00:41:48,160
Speaker 1: out or I could be sort of trying to enhance

773
00:41:48,200 --> 00:41:51,320
Speaker 1: something's and every now and they have to give myself

774
00:41:51,840 --> 00:41:54,160
Speaker 1: an uppercut and say pull back. And I know you

775
00:41:54,239 --> 00:41:57,960
Speaker 1: forgetting that. The strategic stuff, and there's some strategies you

776
00:41:58,000 --> 00:41:59,680
Speaker 1: have to make sure you start to work on or

777
00:41:59,680 --> 00:42:04,640
Speaker 1: call plove and talk through with them. So strategic versus tactical,

778
00:42:04,800 --> 00:42:06,680
Speaker 1: and there's got to be some balance between the two.

779
00:42:07,920 --> 00:42:10,960
Speaker 1: And equally, you've got your private life too, how do

780
00:42:11,000 --> 00:42:11,600
Speaker 1: you manage that.

781
00:42:13,040 --> 00:42:19,920
Speaker 2: Well. So on the strategic side, I'm pretty religious about it. Actually,

782
00:42:20,120 --> 00:42:23,319
Speaker 2: Friday mornings block it out and I spend a couple

783
00:42:23,400 --> 00:42:27,200
Speaker 2: of hours on a big strategic matter of the day.

784
00:42:27,400 --> 00:42:30,000
Speaker 2: So and that might be people related, it might be

785
00:42:30,200 --> 00:42:35,239
Speaker 2: vision related, it might be innovation related. But ultimately that

786
00:42:35,560 --> 00:42:40,239
Speaker 2: is sacriscing time. And my assistant knows not to put

787
00:42:40,280 --> 00:42:43,640
Speaker 2: a meeting on it that moment unless I give specific

788
00:42:43,640 --> 00:42:46,799
Speaker 2: permission if something is so urgent that we just have

789
00:42:46,880 --> 00:42:49,560
Speaker 2: to do something. So that for me is a really

790
00:42:49,640 --> 00:42:53,280
Speaker 2: important Once again, it is as boring as calendar management,

791
00:42:53,280 --> 00:42:55,320
Speaker 2: but really making sure you've got the time and space.

792
00:42:55,920 --> 00:42:58,640
Speaker 2: But I also think that because I'm naturally curious, I'm

793
00:42:58,680 --> 00:43:02,960
Speaker 2: just constantly learning and processing and thinking towards that strategic side.

794
00:43:03,040 --> 00:43:06,480
Speaker 2: So that's it. For the strategic, the tactical you've always

795
00:43:06,480 --> 00:43:08,879
Speaker 2: got to leave room for because you need to make sure.

796
00:43:09,280 --> 00:43:12,000
Speaker 2: But I think the thing that I have learned and

797
00:43:12,040 --> 00:43:15,600
Speaker 2: I'm still learning as CEO, is when to dip in

798
00:43:15,640 --> 00:43:17,680
Speaker 2: to the tactical side and when to leave it to

799
00:43:17,760 --> 00:43:21,759
Speaker 2: your team, because quite often it's very easy to jump

800
00:43:21,760 --> 00:43:23,520
Speaker 2: in because you've seen it before or you've done it before,

801
00:43:23,760 --> 00:43:26,600
Speaker 2: but ultimately that is not your role and responsibility. So

802
00:43:26,680 --> 00:43:29,919
Speaker 2: making sure I'm having that conversation in my head quite

803
00:43:30,000 --> 00:43:36,400
Speaker 2: often is really important. And then on the home side,

804
00:43:37,600 --> 00:43:39,839
Speaker 2: and I learned this the hard way, by the way,

805
00:43:39,920 --> 00:43:43,799
Speaker 2: because I got completely out of control from working way

806
00:43:43,880 --> 00:43:47,600
Speaker 2: too much and really burning out. I had this amazing

807
00:43:47,760 --> 00:43:51,239
Speaker 2: coach who talked to me about how do you set boundaries?

808
00:43:51,480 --> 00:43:55,200
Speaker 2: And you can't set five thousand boundaries, but you have

809
00:43:55,239 --> 00:43:57,680
Speaker 2: to think at any moment in life, and it changes

810
00:43:57,719 --> 00:44:01,960
Speaker 2: as you grow in life, what are the couple of

811
00:44:02,040 --> 00:44:05,680
Speaker 2: things that give you the most joy, that fill your

812
00:44:05,760 --> 00:44:09,520
Speaker 2: cup in a way that actually, therefore when you get

813
00:44:09,600 --> 00:44:12,879
Speaker 2: hit by stuff and stuff's happening around you, are the

814
00:44:12,920 --> 00:44:15,680
Speaker 2: most important points that give you joy and anchor you

815
00:44:15,800 --> 00:44:18,719
Speaker 2: because that's what gives you balance. And so for me,

816
00:44:19,000 --> 00:44:23,080
Speaker 2: I've got really good at just setting boundaries and really

817
00:44:23,120 --> 00:44:25,920
Speaker 2: making sure I have time with my family. So most

818
00:44:26,000 --> 00:44:29,960
Speaker 2: evenings I am at the dinner table with my husband

819
00:44:30,000 --> 00:44:32,839
Speaker 2: and my son. My daughter unfortunately is at Melbourne UNI,

820
00:44:32,880 --> 00:44:35,400
Speaker 2: so she's first year at UNI, so I don't get

821
00:44:35,440 --> 00:44:37,440
Speaker 2: to sit around the table with her. But I have

822
00:44:37,640 --> 00:44:40,480
Speaker 2: really prioritized that, and so I do say no. I

823
00:44:40,520 --> 00:44:42,880
Speaker 2: could go out every evening of the week with a

824
00:44:42,920 --> 00:44:46,000
Speaker 2: work related event, but I do often say no to

825
00:44:46,080 --> 00:44:48,719
Speaker 2: a lot of that because I've prioritized that. And then

826
00:44:48,760 --> 00:44:53,319
Speaker 2: I prioritize sleep and exercises as boring as that, but

827
00:44:53,760 --> 00:44:56,680
Speaker 2: I have got really good at doing that.

828
00:44:56,800 --> 00:44:58,760
Speaker 1: How long will take you to get there? Oh?

829
00:44:58,800 --> 00:45:02,080
Speaker 2: Most of my life, So I only learned this in

830
00:45:02,080 --> 00:45:02,960
Speaker 2: my forties.

831
00:45:03,160 --> 00:45:05,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, so you've been You've been doing it for a

832
00:45:05,280 --> 00:45:07,440
Speaker 1: few years now, but it took a long time to

833
00:45:07,480 --> 00:45:08,560
Speaker 1: work to so a long time.

834
00:45:08,880 --> 00:45:09,120
Speaker 2: Yeah.

835
00:45:09,120 --> 00:45:10,600
Speaker 1: And did you get any close calls?

836
00:45:11,480 --> 00:45:11,879
Speaker 2: I did?

837
00:45:12,200 --> 00:45:15,799
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, so you put weight on it. There's nothing

838
00:45:16,320 --> 00:45:18,520
Speaker 1: I mean, did you all some blowout or did your

839
00:45:18,560 --> 00:45:21,399
Speaker 1: husband say listen down if you don't pull your head

840
00:45:21,400 --> 00:45:25,640
Speaker 1: and I'm out, kid said mum, what's going on? Were

841
00:45:25,680 --> 00:45:26,399
Speaker 1: there any close calls?

842
00:45:26,480 --> 00:45:30,319
Speaker 2: Fortunately, nothing that drastic. But it was actually about my

843
00:45:30,440 --> 00:45:34,000
Speaker 2: own self worth and I nearly burnt.

844
00:45:33,719 --> 00:45:36,200
Speaker 1: Out is what I was burning out to be, and

845
00:45:36,239 --> 00:45:37,640
Speaker 1: that is what.

846
00:45:37,280 --> 00:45:39,920
Speaker 2: That is what caused it. So I was in a

847
00:45:40,000 --> 00:45:42,960
Speaker 2: role where I did First of all, I didn't feel

848
00:45:43,000 --> 00:45:45,200
Speaker 2: like I was particularly aligned to the values and the

849
00:45:45,239 --> 00:45:49,560
Speaker 2: culture of the It was a tough, toxic culture. And yes,

850
00:45:49,600 --> 00:45:53,200
Speaker 2: I'd been promoted and got more responsibility. So on the

851
00:45:53,280 --> 00:45:57,400
Speaker 2: outside I thought I was successful. People thought I was successful,

852
00:45:57,600 --> 00:45:59,959
Speaker 2: but I was finding it hard to get up every

853
00:46:00,120 --> 00:46:03,960
Speaker 2: day and come to work, and it felt so stressful,

854
00:46:04,000 --> 00:46:06,160
Speaker 2: and there was fear in the air in the culture

855
00:46:06,200 --> 00:46:09,720
Speaker 2: as well, and I was just getting worse and worse,

856
00:46:09,920 --> 00:46:14,760
Speaker 2: and ultimately, I'll never put myself in that position again.

857
00:46:15,040 --> 00:46:17,239
Speaker 2: I wish that I had realized that that was what

858
00:46:17,280 --> 00:46:19,719
Speaker 2: was happening earlier and just got myself out of it.

859
00:46:19,760 --> 00:46:22,360
Speaker 2: But it is amazing how you think, oh, no, I

860
00:46:22,440 --> 00:46:26,240
Speaker 2: can work through this. And so for me, the biggest

861
00:46:26,320 --> 00:46:30,239
Speaker 2: lesson that is why you see so much joy As

862
00:46:30,239 --> 00:46:32,960
Speaker 2: I describe my job at a war super is you

863
00:46:33,280 --> 00:46:35,880
Speaker 2: have to do something that is so aligned to your

864
00:46:36,000 --> 00:46:40,120
Speaker 2: values and your purpose and your culture, for sure, but

865
00:46:40,160 --> 00:46:42,880
Speaker 2: you also have to set the boundaries and be really

866
00:46:42,880 --> 00:46:46,279
Speaker 2: clear what gives you joy in your personal life and

867
00:46:46,360 --> 00:46:48,839
Speaker 2: being able to get the blend of those two things right,

868
00:46:49,320 --> 00:46:51,520
Speaker 2: that is where the magic lies. And it took me

869
00:46:51,560 --> 00:46:52,879
Speaker 2: most of my life to work that out.

870
00:46:53,760 --> 00:46:57,239
Speaker 1: I think that boundaries piece is extraordinarily important. I can

871
00:46:57,280 --> 00:47:01,160
Speaker 1: only speak for my important view but I have suffered burnout,

872
00:47:03,080 --> 00:47:06,560
Speaker 1: actually experienced burned in about I got very sick as

873
00:47:06,600 --> 00:47:08,719
Speaker 1: a result. I've never been sick. I've never had been sick.

874
00:47:09,400 --> 00:47:12,279
Speaker 1: And then I got I got burnt out because I'm

875
00:47:12,320 --> 00:47:15,560
Speaker 1: a weeds person, so I can be and if I

876
00:47:15,560 --> 00:47:18,040
Speaker 1: get a weed, so I'm in the weeds. So i

877
00:47:18,080 --> 00:47:19,879
Speaker 1: will get on the topic, whatever it is, and I'll

878
00:47:19,880 --> 00:47:23,320
Speaker 1: get become obsessed by it, and I'll read everything possible

879
00:47:23,719 --> 00:47:25,760
Speaker 1: there is in the world to read about it, literally,

880
00:47:25,840 --> 00:47:27,799
Speaker 1: and it's worse these days because you know there's so

881
00:47:27,840 --> 00:47:31,520
Speaker 1: many more things you can read as opposed and you

882
00:47:31,560 --> 00:47:32,960
Speaker 1: had to go and get a book or something like that.

883
00:47:33,080 --> 00:47:35,800
Speaker 1: And then I'll talk to so many people about the

884
00:47:35,840 --> 00:47:38,040
Speaker 1: topic and I'll get I'll get so deep into it

885
00:47:38,040 --> 00:47:43,520
Speaker 1: that I'll forget about everything. Literally nothing else exists. And

886
00:47:43,800 --> 00:47:46,080
Speaker 1: I got so bad for me ip AFCA. I got

887
00:47:46,120 --> 00:47:49,520
Speaker 1: burned out, and my doctor who diagnosed me, I end

888
00:47:49,640 --> 00:47:52,520
Speaker 1: up getting hooping golf of all things. But which is

889
00:47:52,520 --> 00:47:54,600
Speaker 1: when I get pretty sick. But but my doctor, who

890
00:47:54,640 --> 00:47:56,880
Speaker 1: is a family doctor, know me for long time, and

891
00:47:56,920 --> 00:47:59,239
Speaker 1: I say, when where I was in the law firm,

892
00:47:59,239 --> 00:48:01,279
Speaker 1: we used to do his legal work. So it was

893
00:48:01,280 --> 00:48:05,560
Speaker 1: a pretty well known iminologist. And he said to me,

894
00:48:05,600 --> 00:48:07,279
Speaker 1: he said, Mark, you know so I've known you for

895
00:48:07,280 --> 00:48:10,799
Speaker 1: a long time. And he said, you know what, he said,

896
00:48:12,040 --> 00:48:16,160
Speaker 1: this is not about you being sick. He said, I'm

897
00:48:16,200 --> 00:48:20,319
Speaker 1: well with hooping cough. He said, this is about you

898
00:48:20,400 --> 00:48:24,759
Speaker 1: need to go to a psychiatrist. And I said with

899
00:48:24,800 --> 00:48:27,440
Speaker 1: me and he said, yeah, there's nothing wrong with you.

900
00:48:27,520 --> 00:48:29,920
Speaker 1: He said, but you need to have to learn how

901
00:48:29,920 --> 00:48:34,479
Speaker 1: to control your obsession about information, about knowing obsession about

902
00:48:34,520 --> 00:48:39,000
Speaker 1: knowing something. And it took me along. So I but

903
00:48:39,080 --> 00:48:40,600
Speaker 1: I mind saying in front of the camera that I

904
00:48:40,640 --> 00:48:46,719
Speaker 1: spent like quite a while, let's call a therapist, just

905
00:48:46,840 --> 00:48:49,799
Speaker 1: learning about myself because I didn't know this stuff. I

906
00:48:49,880 --> 00:48:52,799
Speaker 1: just thought, that's me, that's normal, that's what I do.

907
00:48:52,840 --> 00:48:55,640
Speaker 1: You know, Like if I'm like when my members at school,

908
00:48:55,680 --> 00:48:58,440
Speaker 1: if I wanted to learn about I love school. I

909
00:48:58,480 --> 00:49:05,360
Speaker 1: love learning, and I would spend hours in physics and

910
00:49:05,400 --> 00:49:10,880
Speaker 1: chemistry learning about stuff because I had to, because I wanted.

911
00:49:10,640 --> 00:49:11,840
Speaker 2: To, because you were just curious.

912
00:49:11,880 --> 00:49:13,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, I just had to go down and I would

913
00:49:13,640 --> 00:49:15,879
Speaker 1: go down the rabbit hole and be going all over

914
00:49:15,920 --> 00:49:19,640
Speaker 1: the joint and it's so deep and it's and it

915
00:49:19,680 --> 00:49:23,040
Speaker 1: can happen. You've got to work out because that might

916
00:49:23,080 --> 00:49:24,560
Speaker 1: be my strength. There's also my weakness.

917
00:49:25,120 --> 00:49:28,160
Speaker 2: Well, there's two beautiful things there. I think it is

918
00:49:28,239 --> 00:49:31,720
Speaker 2: so true that your signature strengths that have a dark side,

919
00:49:31,760 --> 00:49:35,040
Speaker 2: because if you overplay them or over engineer it, there's

920
00:49:35,080 --> 00:49:38,240
Speaker 2: the dark side. Right. But I also say, I also

921
00:49:38,280 --> 00:49:40,080
Speaker 2: think it's beautiful that you share that because I think

922
00:49:40,080 --> 00:49:42,239
Speaker 2: most people would look at you and go, you are

923
00:49:42,520 --> 00:49:45,640
Speaker 2: so successful and surely you've got it all together and

924
00:49:45,680 --> 00:49:46,840
Speaker 2: everything's been perfect.

925
00:49:47,080 --> 00:49:49,480
Speaker 1: I still have to I still have to check myself

926
00:49:49,520 --> 00:49:51,960
Speaker 1: in this regard with this stuff, and every now and

927
00:49:52,040 --> 00:49:56,600
Speaker 1: I check in with somebody so because I can give

928
00:49:56,600 --> 00:49:58,799
Speaker 1: me a small change in life, like my father passed

929
00:49:58,800 --> 00:50:01,279
Speaker 1: away with this year, So little things can make you

930
00:50:01,400 --> 00:50:04,680
Speaker 1: turn a little bit and just sort of once you

931
00:50:04,760 --> 00:50:06,000
Speaker 1: can go down the rabbit hole and it can be

932
00:50:06,000 --> 00:50:07,719
Speaker 1: about I can go down the rabbit hole. And in

933
00:50:07,840 --> 00:50:10,080
Speaker 1: relation to these days, on anything, it can be just

934
00:50:10,960 --> 00:50:16,640
Speaker 1: something something about. It can be something about at a

935
00:50:16,680 --> 00:50:19,840
Speaker 1: celluar level, how mitochondary work is something stupid, nothing to

936
00:50:19,880 --> 00:50:22,879
Speaker 1: do with anything. So but it's usually when I start

937
00:50:22,880 --> 00:50:25,719
Speaker 1: doing I know it's a symptom of something else that's

938
00:50:25,719 --> 00:50:28,919
Speaker 1: in me and then I tend to avoid that thing

939
00:50:29,520 --> 00:50:32,839
Speaker 1: and find something else that will entertain my brain but

940
00:50:33,280 --> 00:50:37,319
Speaker 1: taxes my brain. And we've got to be kept. We've

941
00:50:37,320 --> 00:50:42,520
Speaker 1: all got little, massive weaknesses, particularly me, no I have.

942
00:50:42,680 --> 00:50:46,200
Speaker 1: And I think because why saying this, because I don't

943
00:50:46,200 --> 00:50:48,680
Speaker 1: want people who listening to this, But looking at two

944
00:50:48,719 --> 00:50:52,600
Speaker 1: of us here being self congratulatory or good gradulatory to

945
00:50:52,680 --> 00:50:56,759
Speaker 1: each other, there's a lot of things that go alongside

946
00:50:56,840 --> 00:51:01,759
Speaker 1: these things, our success and and there is a path,

947
00:51:01,840 --> 00:51:04,400
Speaker 1: and you've gone down a great path and you've done brilliantly,

948
00:51:04,440 --> 00:51:06,880
Speaker 1: and particularly as a woman today because when you were

949
00:51:06,880 --> 00:51:10,360
Speaker 1: coming through women didn't necessarily succeed that well during that period.

950
00:51:10,600 --> 00:51:14,040
Speaker 1: Now it's different, smaller pool totally now, but then that

951
00:51:14,160 --> 00:51:17,840
Speaker 1: was a tough gig. But people need to understand you

952
00:51:17,880 --> 00:51:21,680
Speaker 1: will be challenged by yourself. Yeah, totally, some weakness we have,

953
00:51:21,840 --> 00:51:24,759
Speaker 1: it will come up totally. It'll be very, very and

954
00:51:25,080 --> 00:51:27,040
Speaker 1: it doesn't go away. It stays. You've got to manage it.

955
00:51:27,480 --> 00:51:30,120
Speaker 1: You to keep a lid on it. And I just want,

956
00:51:30,640 --> 00:51:34,239
Speaker 1: I wanted to say for that reason, just to I

957
00:51:34,280 --> 00:51:37,600
Speaker 1: don't want people to think that. And I think it's

958
00:51:37,640 --> 00:51:40,319
Speaker 1: great that you sort of said it's it's like game

959
00:51:40,360 --> 00:51:42,960
Speaker 1: misnakes and ladders a little bit well, and.

960
00:51:42,920 --> 00:51:47,240
Speaker 2: The reality is as humans we are complex. We're complex,

961
00:51:47,440 --> 00:51:51,880
Speaker 2: and there's really tough stuff happening in so many people's lives,

962
00:51:52,400 --> 00:51:56,160
Speaker 2: challenges as well as amazing things, and realizing that it's

963
00:51:56,160 --> 00:51:58,560
Speaker 2: a small board of all of that for most people

964
00:51:58,600 --> 00:52:02,120
Speaker 2: that you are encountering in the workplace. And I think

965
00:52:02,440 --> 00:52:04,520
Speaker 2: bringing you back to why I said the word of

966
00:52:04,640 --> 00:52:08,680
Speaker 2: care in leadership, for me, that is how I felt

967
00:52:08,840 --> 00:52:12,080
Speaker 2: like as I've been in the workplace as a junior

968
00:52:12,080 --> 00:52:14,480
Speaker 2: person and now the opportunity to be a much more

969
00:52:14,520 --> 00:52:19,800
Speaker 2: senior person, I didn't feel that there were enough leaders

970
00:52:19,840 --> 00:52:26,080
Speaker 2: that understood that humanity, humanity and how complicated we all are,

971
00:52:26,600 --> 00:52:30,000
Speaker 2: and that saw me as me as opposed to just

972
00:52:30,040 --> 00:52:33,319
Speaker 2: do this task or get this thing done. And I

973
00:52:33,360 --> 00:52:36,120
Speaker 2: think it's really important for people coming up knowing that

974
00:52:36,640 --> 00:52:40,239
Speaker 2: it is not linear, it is not a ladder. It's

975
00:52:40,440 --> 00:52:45,759
Speaker 2: just learn from things, be curious, be courageous, be determined.

976
00:52:46,239 --> 00:52:48,240
Speaker 1: But I think their care part factor is really important.

977
00:52:48,280 --> 00:52:48,839
Speaker 2: And care.

978
00:52:49,719 --> 00:52:55,720
Speaker 1: It's funny leaders today, I'll go back a big leaders

979
00:52:55,719 --> 00:52:58,600
Speaker 1: back in the maybe if I go I go back

980
00:52:58,640 --> 00:53:02,080
Speaker 1: fifty years, but leaders forty fifty years ago could get

981
00:53:02,080 --> 00:53:03,720
Speaker 1: away with not caring totally.

982
00:53:04,120 --> 00:53:06,840
Speaker 2: Well, in fact, it was a sign of weakness, great

983
00:53:06,920 --> 00:53:07,799
Speaker 2: care and.

984
00:53:07,760 --> 00:53:09,160
Speaker 1: A good example of that. I only know who he's still

985
00:53:09,160 --> 00:53:11,160
Speaker 1: a live these days of is our Dunlap, you know,

986
00:53:11,200 --> 00:53:14,880
Speaker 1: like he was famous for being what he was. Yeah, totally,

987
00:53:14,920 --> 00:53:18,640
Speaker 1: and they called him Chainsaw and in fact so famous

988
00:53:18,640 --> 00:53:21,759
Speaker 1: that Kerry brought him Australia to run part of his

989
00:53:21,800 --> 00:53:23,480
Speaker 1: business and put him on the board at Westpac when

990
00:53:23,520 --> 00:53:25,400
Speaker 1: Kerry was a big show on and west back and

991
00:53:25,440 --> 00:53:28,000
Speaker 1: it was a disaster and the world's changed. And I

992
00:53:28,000 --> 00:53:34,839
Speaker 1: think that curious and courage and learning and execution, but

993
00:53:34,880 --> 00:53:38,320
Speaker 1: also caring about something. You're gonna have a mission, yeah, totally,

994
00:53:38,360 --> 00:53:40,440
Speaker 1: in a mission for the people around you.

995
00:53:40,400 --> 00:53:43,040
Speaker 2: That is, you know, I've got to be greater than yourself.

996
00:53:43,080 --> 00:53:45,560
Speaker 1: It must be. And for me, someone once asked me

997
00:53:45,640 --> 00:53:48,160
Speaker 1: once many years ago, you know what do I see

998
00:53:48,160 --> 00:53:51,920
Speaker 1: some of my grace successes? And I think one of

999
00:53:51,960 --> 00:53:54,959
Speaker 1: the ones I said was watching people around me become

1000
00:53:54,960 --> 00:53:57,719
Speaker 1: the best version of themselves. I love that. I love

1001
00:53:57,800 --> 00:54:00,359
Speaker 1: seeing some become you know. And I'm looking over him now,

1002
00:54:00,400 --> 00:54:06,000
Speaker 1: a young producer over there and beautiful is and watching

1003
00:54:06,080 --> 00:54:08,600
Speaker 1: him become much better than he was when he first

1004
00:54:08,600 --> 00:54:11,600
Speaker 1: started here, which wasn't that longer, and how he's sort

1005
00:54:11,640 --> 00:54:13,800
Speaker 1: of taking control of things and he's tagging a handle

1006
00:54:13,800 --> 00:54:16,680
Speaker 1: and stuff and the willingness to be like I rang

1007
00:54:16,719 --> 00:54:19,440
Speaker 1: him last night at I think it was like eight pm,

1008
00:54:19,480 --> 00:54:21,160
Speaker 1: on my way from the airport, and I gave him

1009
00:54:21,160 --> 00:54:23,520
Speaker 1: a bit of a talking to about something rather I

1010
00:54:23,560 --> 00:54:26,600
Speaker 1: didn't like. And his ability to absorb that and not

1011
00:54:26,680 --> 00:54:30,759
Speaker 1: get not prickle and accept it and take it in

1012
00:54:31,719 --> 00:54:34,000
Speaker 1: actually calm me down because I was tightened, cranky. I'm

1013
00:54:34,000 --> 00:54:35,560
Speaker 1: an old fellow. I'm ted and cranky at that time,

1014
00:54:35,600 --> 00:54:37,879
Speaker 1: and I'm ready to hit. I'm ready to get toes

1015
00:54:37,960 --> 00:54:40,520
Speaker 1: up and and but there was something I needed to

1016
00:54:40,520 --> 00:54:42,480
Speaker 1: talk to him about. So he took the call and

1017
00:54:42,640 --> 00:54:44,600
Speaker 1: he you know, yeah, got it, got it, got to

1018
00:54:44,640 --> 00:54:47,920
Speaker 1: got it. I sawt it and watching some of him

1019
00:54:47,920 --> 00:54:49,560
Speaker 1: becoming the best version of himself and the other team

1020
00:54:50,160 --> 00:54:52,840
Speaker 1: guys and girls in the team. That's really important to me.

1021
00:54:53,080 --> 00:54:54,839
Speaker 1: But it takes long time. It took me a long

1022
00:54:54,880 --> 00:54:57,400
Speaker 1: time to work that stuff out. I had the mature

1023
00:54:58,600 --> 00:55:00,200
Speaker 1: you know, it took me a long long time time

1024
00:55:00,320 --> 00:55:03,320
Speaker 1: to work it out and buy mistakes making lots of them.

1025
00:55:03,160 --> 00:55:07,440
Speaker 2: Making lots of mistakes, and just that curiosity and self awareness,

1026
00:55:07,719 --> 00:55:10,439
Speaker 2: right like just going okay, what just happened? Then why

1027
00:55:10,440 --> 00:55:12,520
Speaker 2: did that happen? All Right? That didn't quite get the

1028
00:55:12,560 --> 00:55:15,480
Speaker 2: right result. Okay, how do I adjust? Or this person's

1029
00:55:15,520 --> 00:55:17,920
Speaker 2: trying to say something to me and not feel defensive.

1030
00:55:19,760 --> 00:55:21,840
Speaker 2: You can see it. You can see it in people,

1031
00:55:21,880 --> 00:55:24,840
Speaker 2: don't you think whether they've got that real learning mindset.

1032
00:55:25,560 --> 00:55:27,680
Speaker 2: I mean, the trendy version now is called it growth

1033
00:55:27,680 --> 00:55:30,560
Speaker 2: mindset versus fixed mindset. But you can see it. If

1034
00:55:30,560 --> 00:55:34,279
Speaker 2: someone's curious and they're wanting to learn and being able

1035
00:55:34,320 --> 00:55:37,600
Speaker 2: to take that feedback or when you've failed or where

1036
00:55:37,640 --> 00:55:41,160
Speaker 2: things haven't gone well and build off that, that is

1037
00:55:41,200 --> 00:55:42,759
Speaker 2: where growth lies.

1038
00:55:42,520 --> 00:55:44,520
Speaker 1: And how you were taking feedback. Now as the boss

1039
00:55:44,520 --> 00:55:45,240
Speaker 1: of the joint.

1040
00:55:45,719 --> 00:55:48,600
Speaker 2: Do you know what I need to get more feedback?

1041
00:55:48,680 --> 00:55:51,720
Speaker 2: Is the reality? Because what I've certainly see as CEO

1042
00:55:52,160 --> 00:55:57,040
Speaker 2: is you people often you know, wrap you in cotton

1043
00:55:57,080 --> 00:55:59,080
Speaker 2: wool and they don't want you to necessarily hear things.

1044
00:55:59,080 --> 00:56:02,440
Speaker 2: So this is why I have several ways of doing it.

1045
00:56:02,480 --> 00:56:04,960
Speaker 2: One is I always ask for feedback at the end

1046
00:56:05,040 --> 00:56:09,200
Speaker 2: of sessions, feedback of my team and want to get

1047
00:56:09,200 --> 00:56:12,000
Speaker 2: that and seek that deliberately and try and roll model that.

1048
00:56:12,600 --> 00:56:15,160
Speaker 2: But it is also why I have all these coffees

1049
00:56:15,200 --> 00:56:18,640
Speaker 2: and virtual coffees with people right across the organization, and

1050
00:56:18,719 --> 00:56:22,239
Speaker 2: I'm just always asking them what's not working, what's going on,

1051
00:56:22,680 --> 00:56:26,120
Speaker 2: because I just want to learn what's not working, what

1052
00:56:26,200 --> 00:56:28,680
Speaker 2: am I doing that's having an impact. I think you've

1053
00:56:28,680 --> 00:56:32,319
Speaker 2: got to create space and permission and be really approachable.

1054
00:56:32,480 --> 00:56:34,360
Speaker 2: It's very very hard.

1055
00:56:34,480 --> 00:56:37,040
Speaker 1: As CEO, I learned that from Kerry. I mean, one

1056
00:56:37,080 --> 00:56:39,920
Speaker 1: of the things amazing about Kry Packer was that he

1057
00:56:40,160 --> 00:56:43,799
Speaker 1: virtually just spoke to everyone in his organization. So he

1058
00:56:43,840 --> 00:56:46,600
Speaker 1: would get the cameraman who was at the cricket match

1059
00:56:46,719 --> 00:56:50,560
Speaker 1: yep into his office and you'd be asking that cameraman,

1060
00:56:51,880 --> 00:56:54,800
Speaker 1: how can we improve the camera angles of something or

1061
00:56:54,880 --> 00:56:58,359
Speaker 1: other and he would talk to the guy or girl

1062
00:56:58,400 --> 00:57:01,160
Speaker 1: for hours. Yeah, and like he's the richest man in

1063
00:57:01,160 --> 00:57:04,399
Speaker 1: the country at the time. I was amazed at that.

1064
00:57:04,840 --> 00:57:07,360
Speaker 1: I was amazed at that. And he would talk to

1065
00:57:07,760 --> 00:57:10,080
Speaker 1: one of my those days, the business men together. He

1066
00:57:10,080 --> 00:57:11,840
Speaker 1: would talk to one of my brothers, say bring in

1067
00:57:11,880 --> 00:57:16,000
Speaker 1: one of your better brokers, one of the and he'd say,

1068
00:57:16,080 --> 00:57:19,600
Speaker 1: what's the market doing. You know, what are people looking

1069
00:57:19,600 --> 00:57:21,160
Speaker 1: for where they're trying to buy a property out there,

1070
00:57:21,160 --> 00:57:23,320
Speaker 1: how much they're buying, they're borrowing ninety percent or eighty percent?

1071
00:57:23,840 --> 00:57:27,280
Speaker 1: You know, is there a stretch on the on the

1072
00:57:27,320 --> 00:57:30,200
Speaker 1: calculations about where they can afford another the servicing ability?

1073
00:57:30,360 --> 00:57:34,920
Speaker 1: He was like, I don't wouldn't call it humble. It

1074
00:57:35,000 --> 00:57:38,200
Speaker 1: is humbleness. It looks like he's being humble, but it's

1075
00:57:38,200 --> 00:57:41,040
Speaker 1: not really. He wasn't really humble. I would never say

1076
00:57:41,040 --> 00:57:43,480
Speaker 1: that about carry. I wouldn't call him full of humility

1077
00:57:43,480 --> 00:57:47,640
Speaker 1: and humbleness. But he didn't mind leaning into every part

1078
00:57:47,680 --> 00:57:49,400
Speaker 1: of the business to find out what you need to

1079
00:57:49,400 --> 00:57:49,840
Speaker 1: find out.

1080
00:57:50,120 --> 00:57:54,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think your ideas and your learning for

1081
00:57:54,800 --> 00:57:58,960
Speaker 2: yourself come from so many different places, and just being

1082
00:57:59,280 --> 00:58:02,640
Speaker 2: open to that creating the right conditions for that, you know,

1083
00:58:02,840 --> 00:58:04,320
Speaker 2: that is what I think you've got to do as

1084
00:58:04,320 --> 00:58:06,680
Speaker 2: a leader. So it sounds like that's what he was doing.

1085
00:58:06,520 --> 00:58:09,280
Speaker 1: Well down Stewart CEO of a where super I can

1086
00:58:09,360 --> 00:58:12,280
Speaker 1: see why you got to wear you did. And I

1087
00:58:12,360 --> 00:58:14,720
Speaker 1: might have been a little glid before saying that's very

1088
00:58:15,280 --> 00:58:17,480
Speaker 1: ring through the linear progression of doing everything in the

1089
00:58:17,520 --> 00:58:20,920
Speaker 1: credit territory. But you have done everything in the credit territory.

1090
00:58:20,960 --> 00:58:22,200
Speaker 1: You have achieved a lot.

1091
00:58:22,280 --> 00:58:22,360
Speaker 3: And.

1092
00:58:23,920 --> 00:58:25,720
Speaker 1: I know I know a lot about it. Where super

1093
00:58:26,120 --> 00:58:28,439
Speaker 1: and we didn't get to talk about portfolios and things

1094
00:58:28,440 --> 00:58:30,480
Speaker 1: like that, but I actually wanted to talk about you today,

1095
00:58:30,560 --> 00:58:31,760
Speaker 1: so I hope you don't mind.

1096
00:58:32,920 --> 00:58:33,840
Speaker 2: I really enjoyed it.

1097
00:58:33,880 --> 00:58:34,240
Speaker 1: Thank you.