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Speaker 1: Does he deal with it all on his own or

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Speaker 1: does your dial friend? Does he go somewhere and get

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Speaker 1: some help? I think it's more likely he got some help.

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Speaker 1: There's some very strong indicators that there was someone there

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Speaker 1: who had extensive knowledge about forensic awareness.

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Speaker 2: I'm Ashley Hanson, and you're listening to episode fifteen of

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Speaker 2: Deer Rochelle, the final episode of this season. Thank you

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Speaker 2: for following this live investigation into the unsolved murder of

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Speaker 2: twenty three year old Rochelle Charles. For twenty four years,

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Speaker 2: per killer has been on the run. Every listener, every

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Speaker 2: piece of information, and every new witness with us closer

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Speaker 2: to the truth. We began this episode with the voice

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Speaker 2: of FBI trained criminal profile at Chris Illingsworth. She's been

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Speaker 2: working on a profile that Rochelle's killer may not have

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Speaker 2: been acting alone. Soon, you're going to meet a forgotten

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Speaker 2: witness whose crucial information from that night could help strengthen

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Speaker 2: that theory. But his statement could be sitting in an

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Speaker 2: officer's notepad collecting dust in a police archive. First, let's

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Speaker 2: go back to seven Mile Beach GIRoA. This time I'm

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Speaker 2: with my colleague Patrick Carline, and we've come here at

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Speaker 2: the exact time Rochelle's burning body was found more than

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Speaker 2: two decades ago.

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Speaker 3: Market is so quiet, isn't that?

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Speaker 4: It's only our light it's hiding up this area.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's pitch black and.

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Speaker 2: You cannot see a thing.

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Speaker 5: No, but you know the trees are above you, don't you.

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Speaker 3: You can hear the surf in the distance.

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Speaker 2: You can hear the ocean.

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Speaker 6: Yeah.

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Speaker 5: I was here for about twenty minutes before you got here.

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Speaker 5: Not a single car pass. And this is about that's

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Speaker 5: what twenty am. It's the same time as Rochelle's body

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Speaker 5: was detected on fire. And it just feels like the

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Speaker 5: loneliest place in the world, wasn't it.

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Speaker 2: And it's raining like the night that.

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Speaker 3: She was killed. That's right.

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Speaker 2: I just think that.

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Speaker 4: The killer knew this spot and knew this area. Well,

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Speaker 4: it's still strange spot to pull up on the side

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Speaker 4: of the road.

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Speaker 2: Even though we.

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Speaker 4: Haven't seen any cars, it's still risky to have your car.

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Speaker 5: It's very risky the moment a car come, you're and

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Speaker 5: you're being cited, aren't you. And perhaps that's exactly what happened.

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Speaker 5: In the hours before Michelle's body was detected.

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Speaker 3: There were what three or four separate.

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Speaker 5: Sightings of a car that matches on the side of

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Speaker 5: the road, a man standing over a body in one

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Speaker 5: of those sightings. It's high risk, but against that, it's

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Speaker 5: so lonely here and so.

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Speaker 3: Dark, isolated. It's just us and the elements.

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Speaker 4: Really, let's just go in and see how difficult this

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Speaker 4: tank is to find in the middle of the night. Well,

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Speaker 4: there's a track that leads down increase, he remembers that brand.

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Speaker 4: This track leads to the beach. You can hear the ocean,

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Speaker 4: you can.

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Speaker 3: It's a sort of dull roar, isn't it in the distance.

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Speaker 2: Here's the tank.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, at the time it was that concrete lid, yes,

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Speaker 4: and so a little higher, so it would have probably

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Speaker 4: been a little more noticeable.

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Speaker 3: You could all classes for me.

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Speaker 2: To come here and just stumble on this spot.

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Speaker 4: The killer knows this area well, is familiar with this road,

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Speaker 4: has probably traveled it many times before.

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Speaker 5: I think there's something brazen too. I mean, we're only

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Speaker 5: eight meters or nine meters from the road here, it's

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Speaker 5: not that far off.

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Speaker 6: Look.

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Speaker 5: The frustration for Rochelle's family, obviously is even now so

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Speaker 5: long afterwards.

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Speaker 3: There are so many lingering questions.

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Speaker 5: There are so many facts that haven't been feeled, except

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Speaker 5: for the very obvious fact that this should not have happened,

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Speaker 5: and whoever did do things that led to such evil

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Speaker 5: in this place really should have been put in the

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Speaker 5: cage a long time.

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Speaker 3: Ago, and that must be galling.

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Speaker 5: And you know, there are so many words to use

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Speaker 5: to try and describe that haunting that they must feel.

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Speaker 4: I don't want to stay here any longer than is necessary,

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Speaker 4: So let's get out of here. Let's hope we can

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Speaker 4: bring Christian answer answers after all of these years.

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Speaker 3: They need them, and they deserve them, you sure do.

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Speaker 2: We've spoken to hundreds of people to get a better

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Speaker 2: understanding of the weeks, days, and hours leading up to

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Speaker 2: the night of Rochelle's murder in June two thousand and one,

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Speaker 2: and the missing nine hours on that fateful night. New

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Speaker 2: witnesses have come forward to help us piece together this

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Speaker 2: tragic mystery. We've tracked down experts to analyze the brief

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Speaker 2: of evidence with fresh eyes. The phone has been running hot,

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Speaker 2: and our email has been inundated with people who want

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Speaker 2: to help.

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Speaker 7: Hi.

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Speaker 2: Hi, how are you?

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Speaker 6: How are you good?

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Speaker 2: That's some very pleasing email.

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Speaker 6: I got from you.

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Speaker 3: Yes, it's I think it's hard evidence, to be honest.

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Speaker 8: That's exactly what it is.

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Speaker 2: Yes, tell me more about it. Who is this guy?

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Speaker 9: Look, apparently he's the only court credible, independent expert on

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Speaker 9: phone digital data and he's done a lot of big

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Speaker 9: cases like the Mushroom cook trial just here in Melbourne.

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Speaker 9: He's up on the stand for a couple of days, oh,

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Speaker 9: I think two or three days just the other week.

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Speaker 9: He's sort of internationally recognized. He's a superstar of phone

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Speaker 9: digital data.

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Speaker 2: Soon after my call with Patrick, I was on my

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Speaker 2: way to Adelaide.

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Speaker 10: So my name's Matthew Surrell. I'm a digital forensic scientist

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Speaker 10: and professor at the University of Adelaide and Digital Forensics.

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Speaker 10: I've been working with mobile phone networks since nineteen ninety eight.

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Speaker 10: To date, I've worked now in about four hundred cases

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Speaker 10: for law enforcement, for prosecution, for defense, mostly criminal matters,

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Speaker 10: occasionally some civil matters, dealing with a diverse range of

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Speaker 10: digital evidence. I was asked by South Australia Police to

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Speaker 10: assist in the first case in the world where we

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Speaker 10: had Apple Watch data as part of a murder investigation,

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Speaker 10: and these days routinely. I deal mostly with mobile networks

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Speaker 10: and the records that we get from mobile networks. I

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Speaker 10: deal with the fact that you're holding a phone that

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Speaker 10: you carry everywhere that's recording everything you do, and how

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Speaker 10: can we use that information to better understand what happened

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Speaker 10: in the context, particularly of a crime. We're really interested

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Speaker 10: in how we can model not necessarily where you did go,

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Speaker 10: but where you could have been.

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Speaker 2: We've talked a lot about key locations like Picton, Camden, Campbelltown,

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Speaker 2: Tarmil and Bargo. If you're not familiar with these areas,

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Speaker 2: it might all sound a bit scattered, but let's give

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Speaker 2: you a lay of the land. Picture high steep hills,

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Speaker 2: lush and green covered in trees. That's the rays about

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Speaker 2: Razorback Ridge cuts across the MacArthur region in Sydney Southwest

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Speaker 2: is a defining feature of the landscape. Standing at the

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Speaker 2: lookout on top of the ridge, you can see for

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Speaker 2: miles to the east lies Candbell Town, a growing city

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Speaker 2: about an hour from Sydney CBD. To the west, the

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Speaker 2: rolling farmland stretches towards Picton and Camden.

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Speaker 10: The technology that we're going to bring to Rachel Charles's

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Speaker 10: case is two things. One is that we're using what's

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Speaker 10: called a digital twin, so we can model the topography

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Speaker 10: around Picton and around that area to see where the

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Speaker 10: radio signals can reach. The problem with field measurements is

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Speaker 10: I can say, yes, if you are at this location,

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Speaker 10: you could connect to that base station, but it doesn't

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Speaker 10: answer the reverse question, if I connect to that base station,

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Speaker 10: where could you have been? And so it's a very

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Speaker 10: biased question. When we look at the area, particularly around Picton,

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Speaker 10: in a three D digital twin model, we can see

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Speaker 10: everywhere that radio signal could reach, but also where it

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Speaker 10: couldn't possibly reach, and that gives us a better objective

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Speaker 10: insight into what's possible and what's not possible. That's the

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Speaker 10: first thing I'm going to do. The second thing that

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Speaker 10: we have is a model that looks at movement. So

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Speaker 10: this is now, if I see somebody at this location

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Speaker 10: and an hour later I see them at that location,

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Speaker 10: there's sensible question is how do they get from here

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Speaker 10: to there? And you can use Google Maps, you can

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Speaker 10: use any of those tools and go, well, here's the

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Speaker 10: fastest route that shows that it's possible, but that doesn't

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Speaker 10: necessarily mean you took that route. So we've been thinking

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Speaker 10: about that problem and we've recast that as not how

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Speaker 10: did you get from here to there, but where could

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Speaker 10: you reach in between.

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Speaker 2: You will remember from Rochelle's inquest, Peter Singleton had a

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Speaker 2: strong interest in mobile phone calls linked to Rochelle's boss,

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Speaker 2: Kevin Stephen Corell on the night she went missing. For transparency,

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Speaker 2: we don't have all the call records in mobile phone

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Speaker 2: data connected to Rochelle's case. Some of that information has

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Speaker 2: been redacted in the brief of evidence we have access to,

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Speaker 2: but we do have detailed information about four key phone

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Speaker 2: calls to and from Kevin's mobile. Kevin made a call

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Speaker 2: at six oh eight pm to a number almost identical

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Speaker 2: to Rochelle's, but he wasn't forthcoming about that phone call

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Speaker 2: until he was reminded about it in a police interview.

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Speaker 2: That call connected to a person in Queensland. Doctor Currell

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Speaker 2: has a theory about that call.

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Speaker 10: Back in the day, you didn't have a contact list

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Speaker 10: in your phone. You had a contact list on your

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Speaker 10: SIM card and it would only saw about one hundred numbers,

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Speaker 10: so you would be pretty selective about what those contacts were,

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Speaker 10: and it's a bit tedious to get them in there.

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Speaker 10: For those of your listeners who are old enough to

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Speaker 10: remember typing in where you've got to use the one

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Speaker 10: two three keypad and typing a text message alone, typing

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Speaker 10: somebody's name in, it's quite a tedious process. So it

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Speaker 10: was really common. You didn't actually have all of your

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Speaker 10: contacts in your sim card, So the idea that you

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Speaker 10: enter that number, you type it in because you've memorized it.

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Speaker 10: We don't do that anymore.

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Speaker 6: But I was.

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Speaker 10: Speculating if you deliberately tried to contact Rachelle and got

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Speaker 10: the numbers around the wrong way. That was really common

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Speaker 10: at the time because we just didn't keep phone numbers

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Speaker 10: in our.

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Speaker 2: Kevin told police after finishing work at Camden Holden, he

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Speaker 2: went straight to Campbelltown to go shop it. To do that,

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Speaker 2: he'd have to travel over the Razorback Ridge. He's an actor,

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Speaker 2: voicing part of his statement to detectives.

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Speaker 11: I obviously didn't get through and never bothered it again.

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Speaker 11: So obviously the reason irang just was something to do

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Speaker 11: with work relation. There was no answer he was engaged

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Speaker 11: or something, you know, whether it was a sale or

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Speaker 11: whether it wasn't a sale, or whether the people were

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Speaker 11: coming back. I can't recall, so it wasn't relevant.

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Speaker 2: I don't think we supplied doctor Cyrell with mobile phone

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Speaker 2: data maps. From the brief.

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Speaker 10: What you've told me so far is about four telephone

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Speaker 10: calls that were made from the main suspect, and you've

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Speaker 10: identified in that information which base station that connected to.

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Speaker 10: And what struck me immediately was the first first call

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Speaker 10: at six o eight pm from a base station in

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Speaker 10: Picton at a time when our suspect says that he

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Speaker 10: was in Campbelltown, and I took one look at the

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Speaker 10: map and went, that is unlikely. I don't think it's possible.

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Speaker 10: And as we've modeled that, as we've gone into understanding

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Speaker 10: where the radio signal's gone, our conclusion is that that

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Speaker 10: alibi that he could have been in Campbeltown, it's just impossible.

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Speaker 10: Just could not happen. So then it leads to the

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Speaker 10: next question, WHI says, if he wasn't in Campbelltown, where

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Speaker 10: could he have been? Now I want to investigate that

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Speaker 10: a little bit.

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Speaker 2: Today we're in his office and doctor Currell is talking

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Speaker 2: me through his analysis using three dimensional modeling maps. Do

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Speaker 2: you believe that the modern technology that you have access

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Speaker 2: to could help to solve for Shell's case.

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Speaker 10: I think you can drive us forwards. Whether it actually

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Speaker 10: solves it is a different matter, that's really a legal question.

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Speaker 10: But what we can do using modern digital models of

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Speaker 10: the environment as well as road conditions and that sort

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Speaker 10: of thing, we can identify what scenario is applausible and

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Speaker 10: what or not, and that may very well be something

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Speaker 10: that drives this case forward. No promises but best efforts.

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Speaker 10: So our analysis will show you what's possible. And some

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Speaker 10: of the things that might be possible might appear to

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Speaker 10: be incriminating for our main suspect, but we also need

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Speaker 10: to be open to the possibilities that provide alternative explanations.

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Speaker 10: We know that the dealership and the suspect's home address

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Speaker 10: is up here in Camden. We know that he says

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Speaker 10: he was in Campbelltown when he made the six Z

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Speaker 10: eight phone call. Phone call connects via Picton, and Picton

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Speaker 10: cannot possibly reach Campbelltown because we've got the razorback bridge

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Speaker 10: in the way, and unmodeling shows that the radio signals

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Speaker 10: simply can't get past that ridge, so the alibi is broken. Further,

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Speaker 10: if he were in Campbelltown at six o' eight, i'd

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Speaker 10: expect one of these neighboring bay stations around the Campbelltown

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Speaker 10: area to pick up that connection. So I'm quite sure

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Speaker 10: about that. At six o' eight, where was he, Well,

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Speaker 10: he could have been in Picton, southern Picton, he could

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Speaker 10: have been in Tarmoor, he could have been somewhere in between.

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Speaker 10: If he was as far south as Bargo, then it's

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Speaker 10: more likely that the Yanderer bay station would have connected

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Speaker 10: that core. So that places the six o eight phone

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Speaker 10: call in this sort of area, Picton, Tarmil. I'm sure

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Speaker 10: about that. The alibi is weird. Why Campbelltown? Why at

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Speaker 10: six o eight?

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Speaker 6: Why?

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Speaker 10: Why be so adamant about it? Why place yourself so

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Speaker 10: far away from Picton? That question bothers me because the

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Speaker 10: alibi seems to make no sense to me.

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Speaker 2: There was always this belief that the six eight phone

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Speaker 2: call made by Kevin Correll was highly unlikely to have

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Speaker 2: been made in Campbelltown. You've taken it one step further.

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Speaker 2: Can you prove that this six o eight phone call

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Speaker 2: was not made in Campbelltown all that area?

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Speaker 10: So there are two things that point to it being impossible.

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Speaker 10: The first is that if the phone were in Campbelltown,

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Speaker 10: there's half a dozen bay stations in the Campbelltown area

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Speaker 10: which are much closer, which would provide that coverage in

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Speaker 10: that space. Now, it is possible that you can connect

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Speaker 10: to a more distant base station under some bizarre geographical circumstances,

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Speaker 10: and we do see that in modern records, but we're

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Speaker 10: already dealing with the that's very highly improbable. When we

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Speaker 10: actually look at where the base station is in Picton,

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Speaker 10: it's on the wrong side of the Razorback Ridge. And

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Speaker 10: when I say the wrong side, there is no way

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Speaker 10: that radio signal can get over the ridge and connect

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Speaker 10: into Campbelltown or more importantly, the other direction. The phone

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Speaker 10: itself doesn't have enough power for that signal to come

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Speaker 10: up over the ridge and diffract back to the base station.

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Speaker 10: That signal would just not be detectable. So we can

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Speaker 10: demonstrate to you today that that radio signal just isn't possible,

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Speaker 10: and that even if it were, there are base stations

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Speaker 10: around that would pick up the phone, half a dozen

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Speaker 10: of them between Picton and Campbelltown where that connection would

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Speaker 10: have occurred. So there's two different things. We can show

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Speaker 10: that there's an alternative, but we can also show that

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Speaker 10: this is just not physically possible to occur, and so

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Speaker 10: on that basis, I have to conclude, and I rarely

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Speaker 10: concluded this strongly, that connection just can't happen. Impossible, just impossible.

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Speaker 10: The seven thirty eight PM occurred via the Neurellan base station. Now,

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Speaker 10: the Neurellum base station is very close to where the

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Speaker 10: Holden Dealership was, where both suspect and the victim Rochelle worked.

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Speaker 10: But he has to be in that Camden Neurellum area

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Speaker 10: at seven thirty eight.

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Speaker 2: And what about the seven forty three phone call? Where

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Speaker 2: did that connect to and what are the possibilities of

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Speaker 2: where he could have been?

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Speaker 10: So that was Allo so via NERELLM. Now I haven't

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Speaker 10: seen the antenna directions for that, but seven thirty eight

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Speaker 10: and seven forty three are in the same general area.

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Speaker 10: If the phones moved in between, it hasn't moved very far.

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Speaker 2: So those three later phone calls are likely to suggest

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Speaker 2: that he was in those areas where he says he was.

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Speaker 10: Yes, So the six thirty eight connecting via Picton, his

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Speaker 10: story is that he was in Picton and that lines up.

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Speaker 10: But seven thirty eight, seven forty three he's connecting in

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Speaker 10: Norellan and that makes much more sense that his phone

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Speaker 10: is in that area around nerellm could be at or

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Speaker 10: close to home in Camden, or could be at or

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Speaker 10: around the Holden dealership where he worked. It is possible

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Speaker 10: that after work he may well have gone into Campbelltown.

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Speaker 10: Just from an investigative experience, which is limited, most alibis

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Speaker 10: have an element of truth or truthiness about them. But

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Speaker 10: in order for this phone call to occur at six

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Speaker 10: oh eight, he's got to get from Campbelltown all the

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Speaker 10: way down to Picton. That's about a forty minute trip.

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Speaker 10: So this seems to be a rushed visit to Campbelltown

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Speaker 10: if it occurred at all. But why so adamant that

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Speaker 10: he's in Campbelltown when the call occurs in Picton. As

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Speaker 10: we piece those pieces together around the movements that he

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Speaker 10: has given us, particularly being in Picton around six forty

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Speaker 10: five until just before seven, that fits the next phone call.

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Speaker 10: Why is he so careful to say that he's not

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Speaker 10: in Picton at six o' eight or south of Picton

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Speaker 10: at six o' eight. That's weird? Was he in fact

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Speaker 10: at seven thirty eight seven forty three? Is it possible?

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Speaker 10: You know, we know he connected to Nirellam. Was he

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Speaker 10: close to home? Was he close to work? Was he

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Speaker 10: in the suburbs around here?

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Speaker 2: There are no other known phone calls from Kevin's mobile

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Speaker 2: that evening. Rochelle's last known contact with anyone was just

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Speaker 2: after five pm while she was driving home from Camden.

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Speaker 2: It's belief she made it home to Bargo nine hours later.

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Speaker 2: Her burning body was discovered one hundred kilometers away at

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Speaker 2: seven Mile Beach, GIRoA. So the killer and Rochelle have

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Speaker 2: covered a lot of ground. We don't know where she

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Speaker 2: was killed or at what time. Keep in mind, there

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Speaker 2: was a lot of suspicious activity with a car described

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Speaker 2: as a similar model to Rochelle's blue hold it in

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Speaker 2: and around GIRoA over a four hour period, but her

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Speaker 2: car was found parked by someone out the back of

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Speaker 2: the Bargo hotel. It's also very likely the killer needed

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Speaker 2: petrol during the night to fill up Rochelle's car if

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Speaker 2: it was to make it to the South coast, and

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Speaker 2: also to light the fire.

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Speaker 10: So we've looked at the movements after two o'clock in

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Speaker 10: the morning. We know that Rachelle's personal items were dumped

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Speaker 10: on the road to Bury. That indicates a westward movement.

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Speaker 10: We know that there are two routes that you can

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Speaker 10: take to get back to Bargo, one through Woollongong, one

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Speaker 10: through Bowrel. The fact that the car moves west first

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Speaker 10: towards Bury, and the fact that going that way and

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Speaker 10: up the freeway up the HU Motorway takes you through

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Speaker 10: fewer highly populated areas, I would suggest that's the more

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Speaker 10: likely route is to go up that way. We need

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Speaker 10: to also remember that whoever did this knows their way

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Speaker 10: around not only Bargo, but also Picton, also Camden, also GIRoA.

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Speaker 10: We're not relying on the electronic maps we have these days.

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Speaker 10: We don't have a GPS unit in our car. We

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Speaker 10: don't have a smart phone with an app that gives

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Speaker 10: us the fastest route. These were the days where if

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Speaker 10: you wanted to drive from Sydney to Melbourne right, you'd

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Speaker 10: go into the NRMA and that give you the strip

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Speaker 10: maps that would take you on the route. You had

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Speaker 10: a street directory in your car. That's how we worked

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Speaker 10: back then, and that street directory probably only covered Sydney,

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Speaker 10: it probably didn't cover all of New South Wales. So

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Speaker 10: you're dealing here with somebody who knows their way around

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Speaker 10: this area. That's an important insight to consider. You shown

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Speaker 10: me transcripts from the coronial inquest, and I have to

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Speaker 10: accept that at face value. My preference would be to

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Speaker 10: see the primary documents that Vodaphone supplied to investigators.

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Speaker 2: Christy has been asking the coroner for the withheld sections

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Speaker 2: of her sister's brief of evidence weekly for months on end.

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Speaker 7: So as you guys know, we only have a small

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Speaker 7: part of the brief. I have been trying for probably

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Speaker 7: about eighteen months now to try and get the full brief.

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Speaker 7: The mum and I, being the senior next of kin,

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Speaker 7: requested the entire brief and the autopsy report, which we

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Speaker 7: also don't have, and that request was denied because the

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Speaker 7: coroner said that it was an active investigation at that

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Speaker 7: point in time. It was not, so I spoke to

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Speaker 7: the police and they eventually said that they would actually

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Speaker 7: support us reading the entire brief but not having a

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Speaker 7: copy of it. So my understanding of that would be

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Speaker 7: that we would need to go to the court and

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Speaker 7: we'd be given access to it, but you know, we

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Speaker 7: wouldn't have the ability to take copies or take it

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Speaker 7: with us.

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Speaker 8: Then we're really happy about that.

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Speaker 7: So the unsolved homicide support us having access to that,

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Speaker 7: so we put through another form to the coroner with

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Speaker 7: their support. And this has been going on for a

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Speaker 7: couple of months now, where I call them weekly and

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Speaker 7: speak to a different person every week, and I am

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Speaker 7: told that someone will call me back, and no one does,

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Speaker 7: and then I speak to a new person, and then

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Speaker 7: they can't find the form, and then they don't have

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Speaker 7: the email, and it's been a really frustrating process. And

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Speaker 7: I still don't have access to the rest of the

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Speaker 7: brief or the autopsy report. And I think that'll lot

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Speaker 7: of this comes down to the processes that the coroner's

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Speaker 7: court users. It's like it's in the dark ages.

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Speaker 2: If you ask me, some of the other information Christine,

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Speaker 2: our team are keen to examine includes police interviews, call records,

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Speaker 2: forensic reports, and dozens of statements. Would you be happy

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Speaker 2: to participate in any future court proceedings involving Rochelle's case.

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Speaker 10: Well, I've worked on four hundred cases in the last

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Speaker 10: eight years. This one's a little older. It's using technology

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Speaker 10: that we decommissioned by twenty sixteen, but it's a familiar space.

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Speaker 10: It's within my professional remit but it's also within that

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Speaker 10: remit of justice. So the consulting, the work that we

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Speaker 10: do is about justice and closure. So with the appropriately

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Speaker 10: appropriate evidence that has the right provenance, then we can

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Speaker 10: move this forward.

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Speaker 2: And would you be willing to help New South Wales

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Speaker 2: Police some Rachelle's case.

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Speaker 10: Sure? This is a technology that I grew up with professionally.

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Speaker 10: If those records exist and they need a new pair

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Speaker 10: of eyes on them, this is a really familiar space.

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Speaker 10: I'd really like to see if we had them the

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Speaker 10: records from Michelle's phone, because that would tell me where

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Speaker 10: she was approximately at these different times as well.

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Speaker 2: Could doctor Currell's analysis be a piece of hard evidence

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Speaker 2: detectives need to finally change someone After all this time,

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Speaker 2: New South Wales Police quietly reactivated Strikeforce Tee Lap the

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Speaker 2: investigation into Rochelle's homicide in January twenty twenty five. In

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Speaker 2: the last eighteen months, the Dear Rochelle podcast investigation has

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Speaker 2: uncovered new leads and witnesses, including an alleged walk and

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Speaker 2: share sighting, suspicious newspaper clippings found hidden under harpet, and

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Speaker 2: disturbing allegations linked to the prime suspect Kevin Correll. What action,

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Speaker 2: if any, the Unsolved homicide Squad is taking remains unclear.

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Speaker 2: But when it comes to police and cold cases, silence

436
00:29:16,800 --> 00:29:26,160
Speaker 2: isn't always stillness. Bear in mind Kevin Correll strenuously denies

437
00:29:26,280 --> 00:29:30,040
Speaker 2: any involvement in Rochelle's murder and has never been charged.

438
00:29:30,680 --> 00:29:34,560
Speaker 2: He has willingly participated in three interviews with police and

439
00:29:34,640 --> 00:29:40,000
Speaker 2: provided his DNA to investigators. A coroner presiding over Rochelle's

440
00:29:40,040 --> 00:29:50,160
Speaker 2: inquest made an open finding, go shut and go. It's

441
00:29:50,200 --> 00:29:51,600
Speaker 2: the distance we've got it before.

442
00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:52,440
Speaker 10: No, we're not.

443
00:29:53,560 --> 00:29:55,480
Speaker 2: That's a bit of a crazy Basward.

444
00:29:56,560 --> 00:29:58,880
Speaker 8: Oh go go you good thing.

445
00:29:59,200 --> 00:30:01,000
Speaker 6: You put in a second Here to go sideways.

446
00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:17,080
Speaker 8: Here you come, Dear Shelle.

447
00:30:19,440 --> 00:30:22,600
Speaker 7: I don't think i've written your letter since my eulogy,

448
00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:27,000
Speaker 7: or maybe the letter I put in your coffin. I

449
00:30:27,040 --> 00:30:29,200
Speaker 7: think I remember us putting in a packet of smokes

450
00:30:29,240 --> 00:30:32,840
Speaker 7: and a bottle of gym bem too. I talk to

451
00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:35,720
Speaker 7: you a lot, so it's weird writing your letter that

452
00:30:35,800 --> 00:30:38,120
Speaker 7: I know the whole country is going to hear me read.

453
00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:39,560
Speaker 8: But here goes.

454
00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:43,720
Speaker 7: Just like my letter to Dad at his funeral, I

455
00:30:43,760 --> 00:30:45,480
Speaker 7: have five things to say to you.

456
00:30:47,120 --> 00:30:49,600
Speaker 8: Number one, I'm.

457
00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:54,800
Speaker 7: Sorry I'm so sorry I was too caught up in

458
00:30:54,840 --> 00:30:57,160
Speaker 7: my own teenage world to call you back.

459
00:30:58,040 --> 00:30:59,360
Speaker 8: It is my biggest regret.

460
00:31:00,800 --> 00:31:03,360
Speaker 7: I'm so sorry I wasn't there at home waiting for you,

461
00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:07,480
Speaker 7: talking to you about your day, finding clothes for you

462
00:31:07,560 --> 00:31:10,400
Speaker 7: to wear, feeding the animals so you didn't have to

463
00:31:10,640 --> 00:31:14,320
Speaker 7: after working all day. I'm so sorry I wasn't there

464
00:31:14,360 --> 00:31:19,400
Speaker 7: for you like you always were for me. I'm sorry

465
00:31:19,520 --> 00:31:22,400
Speaker 7: I didn't take more notice at the time I thought

466
00:31:22,400 --> 00:31:26,200
Speaker 7: you were okay. I didn't look around enough or take

467
00:31:26,320 --> 00:31:27,800
Speaker 7: notice of what was out of place.

468
00:31:28,560 --> 00:31:29,760
Speaker 8: I'm really sorry that.

469
00:31:29,760 --> 00:31:33,440
Speaker 7: The world now knows every single detail about your life

470
00:31:33,760 --> 00:31:39,560
Speaker 7: and that you definitely have no privacy. Speaking of sorries,

471
00:31:39,760 --> 00:31:42,040
Speaker 7: I'm sorry your car looks like a rough, old piece

472
00:31:42,080 --> 00:31:44,400
Speaker 7: of junk. I'm sorry it has DNC in it, that

473
00:31:44,480 --> 00:31:46,440
Speaker 7: the pain is peeling off it, and then I haven't

474
00:31:46,480 --> 00:31:52,240
Speaker 7: decided what I'm going to do with it. Lastly, I'm

475
00:31:52,280 --> 00:31:55,560
Speaker 7: sorry I haven't caught him. I'm sorry he has had

476
00:31:55,800 --> 00:31:58,920
Speaker 7: more years of freedom after taking your life than you

477
00:31:59,040 --> 00:32:00,000
Speaker 7: had years on earth.

478
00:32:04,960 --> 00:32:10,320
Speaker 2: So many people carry regrets about Rochelle's case. Remember Mick Ashwood,

479
00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:14,360
Speaker 2: who reviewed Rochelle's homicide investigation. In two thousand and three.

480
00:32:15,480 --> 00:32:19,680
Speaker 12: My personal regret is that I didn't lead the investigation.

481
00:32:20,280 --> 00:32:23,040
Speaker 12: I wasn't one stage asked too. But my workload was

482
00:32:24,160 --> 00:32:28,920
Speaker 12: meets team and the tasks has probably carries about two

483
00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:32,200
Speaker 12: or three of these complex homicide investigations. I remember I

484
00:32:32,200 --> 00:32:35,640
Speaker 12: had about five and I was just drowning and I

485
00:32:35,680 --> 00:32:38,560
Speaker 12: was working in different parts of the state at the time,

486
00:32:39,360 --> 00:32:40,800
Speaker 12: and I just said to my boss.

487
00:32:40,640 --> 00:32:44,840
Speaker 10: I can't do this on and.

488
00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:47,360
Speaker 12: So a lot of regrets, but what was very difficult

489
00:32:47,400 --> 00:32:50,640
Speaker 12: was in my position previously, I was not able to

490
00:32:50,680 --> 00:32:54,640
Speaker 12: discuss outside the New South Wales government these things, and

491
00:32:55,360 --> 00:33:00,560
Speaker 12: some senior counts will believed, on a simplistic version, thought

492
00:33:00,600 --> 00:33:04,640
Speaker 12: that he could solve it when there's so many processes

493
00:33:04,720 --> 00:33:08,600
Speaker 12: in place at the time in crime agency and then

494
00:33:08,680 --> 00:33:10,960
Speaker 12: stay crime come under stop that sort of thing happening.

495
00:33:11,600 --> 00:33:13,320
Speaker 12: That's subjective male bias.

496
00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:15,840
Speaker 2: Just to be clear about what you're saying, are you

497
00:33:16,000 --> 00:33:19,200
Speaker 2: saying that Rachelle's case may not have been solved because

498
00:33:19,240 --> 00:33:21,160
Speaker 2: of misogyny.

499
00:33:20,800 --> 00:33:25,560
Speaker 12: Yes, and I think misogyny and people call it in

500
00:33:25,640 --> 00:33:28,480
Speaker 12: simple terms myle lego, but there's many layers to that.

501
00:33:28,920 --> 00:33:33,640
Speaker 12: A misogyny is you have a male leads a homicide case,

502
00:33:34,160 --> 00:33:37,160
Speaker 12: A male is the supervisor, a male is a superintendent,

503
00:33:37,240 --> 00:33:40,880
Speaker 12: a male is the deputy commissioner, a male is assistant commissioner.

504
00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:47,200
Speaker 12: There's not much chance to getting understanding our bias when

505
00:33:47,200 --> 00:33:50,080
Speaker 12: we just used to walk into a room as men

506
00:33:50,320 --> 00:33:53,920
Speaker 12: with considerable authority and power. You're in when you're a detective.

507
00:33:54,400 --> 00:33:57,400
Speaker 12: So the reason for coming to this podcast is too

508
00:33:58,680 --> 00:34:02,400
Speaker 12: is that after many years in the public service, I

509
00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:05,120
Speaker 12: can see an opportunity now that this could be sold.

510
00:34:06,960 --> 00:34:09,120
Speaker 12: I've seen that now with a couple other podcasts in

511
00:34:09,160 --> 00:34:13,520
Speaker 12: the past, and I think the committees should get behind them.

512
00:34:13,880 --> 00:34:15,200
Speaker 6: It's still solvable.

513
00:34:15,480 --> 00:34:19,560
Speaker 2: Why is the unsolved homicide squating your South Wales so underresourced?

514
00:34:20,239 --> 00:34:25,120
Speaker 12: I think it's this is my opinion, it's an evolution

515
00:34:25,400 --> 00:34:31,800
Speaker 12: of a worldwide across Western democracies to have an unsolved

516
00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:35,400
Speaker 12: homicide unit because there were so many cases were unsolved.

517
00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:39,040
Speaker 12: As a percentage, it's not that high, but they're often

518
00:34:39,080 --> 00:34:44,200
Speaker 12: the child homicide, sexual homicide, serial homicide, organized crime. They're

519
00:34:44,200 --> 00:34:47,279
Speaker 12: the hard ones. I think it's ninety five to ninety

520
00:34:47,280 --> 00:34:51,760
Speaker 12: eight percent solved by the local police within forty eight hours.

521
00:34:53,520 --> 00:34:56,799
Speaker 12: But there's ones like this where there's clearly been staging

522
00:34:56,960 --> 00:35:00,760
Speaker 12: involved with her vehicle and her body. You've to eliminate

523
00:35:00,840 --> 00:35:04,359
Speaker 12: that someone else became involved in moving the body after

524
00:35:04,360 --> 00:35:07,280
Speaker 12: the killer. His killers go through depression after they've killed someone,

525
00:35:07,719 --> 00:35:09,120
Speaker 12: and their behavior changes.

526
00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:12,520
Speaker 2: I also asked counsel assist in the coroner, Peter Singleton,

527
00:35:13,000 --> 00:35:16,440
Speaker 2: how detrimental was the lack of homicide involvement in the

528
00:35:16,560 --> 00:35:17,240
Speaker 2: very beginning.

529
00:35:17,840 --> 00:35:23,120
Speaker 13: Potentially significant. One can never know what the alternative facts

530
00:35:23,200 --> 00:35:27,759
Speaker 13: would have been, but there were. I think it's fair

531
00:35:27,800 --> 00:35:32,760
Speaker 13: to say a number of defects for the original police investigation.

532
00:35:33,200 --> 00:35:35,600
Speaker 2: Do you think the failings in the beginning of the

533
00:35:35,640 --> 00:35:40,959
Speaker 2: investigation has led this case to be unsolved for over

534
00:35:41,000 --> 00:35:42,040
Speaker 2: two decades now?

535
00:35:42,560 --> 00:35:46,640
Speaker 13: I think it's contributed to that. No doubt, my own

536
00:35:46,760 --> 00:35:51,280
Speaker 13: inability to crack the case as also a contributing factor,

537
00:35:51,320 --> 00:35:54,759
Speaker 13: and there will be other factors. But in the end,

538
00:35:55,880 --> 00:35:59,080
Speaker 13: my job is just a question people. I don't want

539
00:35:59,080 --> 00:36:03,440
Speaker 13: to excuse me deficiencies in it. But the most important

540
00:36:03,440 --> 00:36:08,840
Speaker 13: evidence it doesn't come from lawyers. Most cases are solvable,

541
00:36:09,400 --> 00:36:12,440
Speaker 13: and very often it is because the evidence is gathered

542
00:36:12,440 --> 00:36:15,279
Speaker 13: in the first couple of days and that opportunity was

543
00:36:15,320 --> 00:36:19,319
Speaker 13: lost here for some evidence the coroner attended to her

544
00:36:19,440 --> 00:36:23,680
Speaker 13: formal legal duty. I should add this, she did make recommendations,

545
00:36:25,719 --> 00:36:29,400
Speaker 13: and she made a very, if I may say, with

546
00:36:29,480 --> 00:36:33,480
Speaker 13: respect to her honor, a well crafted recommendation for improving

547
00:36:34,040 --> 00:36:38,279
Speaker 13: police investigative procedures, the thrust of which was that the

548
00:36:38,280 --> 00:36:41,480
Speaker 13: homicide squad needed to be involved from the beginning in

549
00:36:41,520 --> 00:36:46,680
Speaker 13: such a matter, and it needed to decide whether or

550
00:36:46,719 --> 00:36:50,239
Speaker 13: not to hold onto the matter or to delegate an

551
00:36:50,280 --> 00:36:52,080
Speaker 13: investigation to local police.

552
00:36:52,719 --> 00:36:55,160
Speaker 2: Do you think it's possible to solve this case after

553
00:36:55,239 --> 00:36:56,080
Speaker 2: so many years?

554
00:36:56,400 --> 00:36:59,560
Speaker 13: This case is probably solvable, but it's unlikely to be solved.

555
00:37:00,360 --> 00:37:05,680
Speaker 13: If it's going to be solved, probably somebody such as yourself,

556
00:37:05,760 --> 00:37:08,919
Speaker 13: as just re examining the whole thing with a fresh eye,

557
00:37:09,480 --> 00:37:12,520
Speaker 13: will spot some pattern or some piece of evidence that

558
00:37:12,560 --> 00:37:15,440
Speaker 13: the rest of us overlooked. I'm hopeful that will happen,

559
00:37:18,800 --> 00:37:22,319
Speaker 13: but it's not likely that any new evidence will be

560
00:37:22,400 --> 00:37:29,160
Speaker 13: found because it's too late for forensic evidence. In all likelihood,

561
00:37:29,719 --> 00:37:32,759
Speaker 13: there's always the possibility of some forensic evidence, but it

562
00:37:32,800 --> 00:37:38,160
Speaker 13: seems unlikely. It's highly unlikely that the murderer will ever

563
00:37:38,200 --> 00:37:38,880
Speaker 13: tell anyone.

564
00:37:39,280 --> 00:37:41,839
Speaker 2: Do you have any personal regrets about the way that

565
00:37:41,920 --> 00:37:45,680
Speaker 2: you handled Rochelle's inquest.

566
00:37:45,800 --> 00:37:50,120
Speaker 13: In a broad sense. I'm sure that if I had

567
00:37:50,600 --> 00:37:53,800
Speaker 13: worked harder, perhaps been a little smarter, But I think

568
00:37:54,160 --> 00:37:56,239
Speaker 13: one can't help that. But one could have worked a

569
00:37:56,320 --> 00:38:00,840
Speaker 13: little harder and maybe got a little bit further with it.

570
00:38:00,920 --> 00:38:04,560
Speaker 13: I'm not saying I could have cracked this case, but

571
00:38:04,680 --> 00:38:06,160
Speaker 13: no doubt I could have done better.

572
00:38:08,440 --> 00:38:10,160
Speaker 2: You and your family would have had a lot to

573
00:38:10,200 --> 00:38:14,239
Speaker 2: do with Peter Singleton throughout the inquest. Yeah, how do

574
00:38:14,320 --> 00:38:18,000
Speaker 2: you consider him and his work that he dedicated to

575
00:38:18,040 --> 00:38:18,520
Speaker 2: the case.

576
00:38:19,200 --> 00:38:27,400
Speaker 7: He's incredible, incredibly intelligent man, so thoughtful and insightful and professional.

577
00:38:28,520 --> 00:38:32,520
Speaker 7: He worked really really hard and he was really really

578
00:38:32,520 --> 00:38:35,480
Speaker 7: lovely towards us. We had a really good relationship with

579
00:38:35,719 --> 00:38:37,719
Speaker 7: you go and have breakfast together and things like that.

580
00:38:38,680 --> 00:38:40,480
Speaker 8: Yeah, he was fantastic.

581
00:38:41,400 --> 00:38:44,560
Speaker 14: He's one of many men and women who have lent

582
00:38:44,600 --> 00:38:48,200
Speaker 14: their voice to the podcast just in general. What does

583
00:38:48,239 --> 00:38:51,520
Speaker 14: that mean for you to have all these people speaking out?

584
00:38:52,120 --> 00:38:57,160
Speaker 7: Wow, it definitely makes my heart happy. And I think

585
00:38:58,719 --> 00:39:02,239
Speaker 7: even in death, she's that that there are so many

586
00:39:02,239 --> 00:39:05,239
Speaker 7: people who just want to help and get justice for her.

587
00:39:05,960 --> 00:39:09,560
Speaker 7: It goes to show the impact that she made even

588
00:39:09,600 --> 00:39:12,960
Speaker 7: in death and the impact that her case and the

589
00:39:13,000 --> 00:39:16,440
Speaker 7: injustice surrounding it has had on everyone involved.

590
00:39:26,760 --> 00:39:36,920
Speaker 8: Finish they finish, Stop Stop Number two. I miss you.

591
00:39:37,880 --> 00:39:40,600
Speaker 7: I miss you so much that sometimes that can be

592
00:39:40,719 --> 00:39:45,399
Speaker 7: physically painful. I miss your smile, I miss your wit.

593
00:39:45,920 --> 00:39:48,480
Speaker 7: I even miss you rolling in like a tornado at

594
00:39:48,560 --> 00:39:51,400
Speaker 7: six am, stealing my clothes and swearing at the iron.

595
00:39:52,680 --> 00:39:54,680
Speaker 7: I miss how you could read me like a book,

596
00:39:55,040 --> 00:39:57,640
Speaker 7: how you knew exactly what I needed and what to

597
00:39:57,719 --> 00:40:01,400
Speaker 7: say to make me feel okay. I miss our talks.

598
00:40:02,760 --> 00:40:05,160
Speaker 7: I miss how we would sit there and pick on

599
00:40:05,239 --> 00:40:08,440
Speaker 7: poor Mum and laugh at Dad for forever falling asleep

600
00:40:08,480 --> 00:40:13,040
Speaker 7: anywhere he stopped. I miss those barely laughs, the chaos

601
00:40:13,080 --> 00:40:16,560
Speaker 7: and the energy brought to my life every day. I

602
00:40:16,600 --> 00:40:19,440
Speaker 7: really miss having a big sister to protect me, to

603
00:40:19,560 --> 00:40:22,080
Speaker 7: watch out for me, and to just be my rock.

604
00:40:25,280 --> 00:40:28,920
Speaker 2: How much have you missed her over all these things?

605
00:40:29,000 --> 00:40:39,200
Speaker 15: I missed events and miss everything. Even when Christie got married,

606
00:40:39,840 --> 00:40:44,440
Speaker 15: she should have been there. You know, that's a big one.

607
00:40:45,120 --> 00:40:50,440
Speaker 15: I just loves the family moments and occasions that she

608
00:40:50,560 --> 00:40:51,200
Speaker 15: was very missed.

609
00:40:55,760 --> 00:40:56,120
Speaker 8: I don't know.

610
00:40:56,160 --> 00:40:58,279
Speaker 7: She would just light up the room when she walked in.

611
00:40:58,320 --> 00:41:02,080
Speaker 7: She was hilarious, really caring, but.

612
00:41:02,040 --> 00:41:05,800
Speaker 15: She just constantly did things that crack you up. She

613
00:41:06,200 --> 00:41:08,960
Speaker 15: would fill in one of those vegetable things in a

614
00:41:09,000 --> 00:41:12,480
Speaker 15: fridge with a punch or something. You just go straight

615
00:41:12,520 --> 00:41:17,480
Speaker 15: to the thing and poor you drink from that. Oh,

616
00:41:17,960 --> 00:41:20,480
Speaker 15: I can't even think there's so many. She just made

617
00:41:20,480 --> 00:41:20,839
Speaker 15: you laugh.

618
00:41:23,560 --> 00:41:24,960
Speaker 8: Kay, Yeah, I just get him.

619
00:41:24,960 --> 00:41:25,840
Speaker 10: Come around this corner?

620
00:41:26,360 --> 00:41:28,000
Speaker 8: O number five?

621
00:41:28,400 --> 00:41:30,160
Speaker 6: Is it the hairy corner? It should have been handed

622
00:41:30,200 --> 00:41:34,880
Speaker 6: the fastest luck. Come on fellas they put their best driver.

623
00:41:34,719 --> 00:41:39,719
Speaker 8: In number three. Thank you.

624
00:41:41,160 --> 00:41:43,759
Speaker 7: Thank you for bringing me out of my shell, for

625
00:41:43,800 --> 00:41:46,040
Speaker 7: showing me how to laugh at life and enjoy the

626
00:41:46,080 --> 00:41:48,920
Speaker 7: hell out of it. Thank you for teaching me to

627
00:41:48,960 --> 00:41:51,279
Speaker 7: have gravel in my guts and to stand up for

628
00:41:51,320 --> 00:41:55,240
Speaker 7: what's right. Thank you for protecting me and for loving

629
00:41:55,280 --> 00:41:57,600
Speaker 7: me even though I was a pain in the ass.

630
00:41:58,760 --> 00:42:01,480
Speaker 7: Thank you for the memories and for being my best friend.

631
00:42:02,320 --> 00:42:02,759
Speaker 7: Thank you.

632
00:42:10,160 --> 00:42:14,240
Speaker 2: Rochelle was a best friend to many, like Fiona and Lisa.

633
00:42:14,840 --> 00:42:16,440
Speaker 8: She would have been a great mum.

634
00:42:16,880 --> 00:42:20,960
Speaker 16: She would have been surrounded by animals, all the horses, dogs,

635
00:42:21,280 --> 00:42:25,920
Speaker 16: She would have had it all so I think she

636
00:42:25,920 --> 00:42:27,520
Speaker 16: would have been a country girl at heart.

637
00:42:33,360 --> 00:42:35,640
Speaker 8: I finally went and visited Shelle's grave On.

638
00:42:35,640 --> 00:42:43,239
Speaker 17: Sunday, I sat down next to her.

639
00:42:44,920 --> 00:42:45,480
Speaker 15: I cried.

640
00:42:52,000 --> 00:42:53,880
Speaker 2: Then I felt a sense of peace come over me,

641
00:42:54,560 --> 00:43:00,200
Speaker 2: and I got up and I left feeling sad, empty, lost,

642
00:43:01,280 --> 00:43:11,120
Speaker 2: and resolved that I'd finally gone to visit. Security guard

643
00:43:11,200 --> 00:43:14,360
Speaker 2: Craig Duck will never forget the night he found Rochelle,

644
00:43:15,000 --> 00:43:18,239
Speaker 2: and like a growing number of supporters, he now has

645
00:43:18,280 --> 00:43:22,520
Speaker 2: the words Team Shell int on his chest.

646
00:43:23,000 --> 00:43:28,600
Speaker 18: I'm now going through PDSD. I feel for her mum

647
00:43:28,640 --> 00:43:34,239
Speaker 18: and dad, her family. I have had nothing, but every

648
00:43:34,560 --> 00:43:39,040
Speaker 18: year I just think for her family and what they're

649
00:43:39,080 --> 00:43:45,000
Speaker 18: going through. And I wish I could have been there

650
00:43:45,080 --> 00:43:48,200
Speaker 18: sooner for her, but I couldn't.

651
00:43:51,680 --> 00:43:53,919
Speaker 10: I wanted to help. I just want to be there

652
00:43:54,000 --> 00:43:54,399
Speaker 10: for them.

653
00:43:55,560 --> 00:43:58,480
Speaker 18: I know I've seen the bad side of it and

654
00:43:58,520 --> 00:44:02,279
Speaker 18: they probably don't want to know that, but I just

655
00:44:02,280 --> 00:44:05,400
Speaker 18: want to send my love and candole answers to them.

656
00:44:05,760 --> 00:44:10,200
Speaker 2: Christie's best friend, Mindy Wicks, also has a Team Shell tattoo.

657
00:44:10,760 --> 00:44:14,680
Speaker 2: She's been unwavering in her support of Christie and relentless

658
00:44:14,680 --> 00:44:18,800
Speaker 2: in her quest to find answers. How proud are you

659
00:44:18,880 --> 00:44:21,479
Speaker 2: to be a part of something like this that could

660
00:44:21,480 --> 00:44:26,200
Speaker 2: potentially lead to a breakthrough in the case, Yes, big.

661
00:44:26,040 --> 00:44:30,640
Speaker 8: One, I'm proud of you, though, does she cry?

662
00:44:31,600 --> 00:44:38,520
Speaker 17: Yeah, there's moments in life that you not so proud

663
00:44:38,520 --> 00:44:42,000
Speaker 17: of and those that you are. And this is probably

664
00:44:42,680 --> 00:44:43,279
Speaker 17: right up there.

665
00:44:48,280 --> 00:44:51,319
Speaker 2: What would it mean to you, as Rochelle's mum to

666
00:44:51,560 --> 00:44:54,280
Speaker 2: know that someone was held accountable for her murder?

667
00:44:55,560 --> 00:44:59,680
Speaker 15: It'd be great, awesome, But I just really am annoyed it.

668
00:45:00,400 --> 00:45:03,880
Speaker 15: They've had twenty three years of life and she'll die

669
00:45:03,960 --> 00:45:08,200
Speaker 15: when she was twenty three, and they've been living having

670
00:45:08,200 --> 00:45:10,920
Speaker 15: a lovely time, and we haven't had her with us.

671
00:45:13,000 --> 00:45:16,240
Speaker 7: That person has taken so much from us. It's taken

672
00:45:16,280 --> 00:45:22,399
Speaker 7: everything from Rochelle. And yeah, the fact that they get

673
00:45:22,440 --> 00:45:27,279
Speaker 7: to walk around and enjoy life and have.

674
00:45:27,280 --> 00:45:32,719
Speaker 8: A family and achieve things, it makes me sick. It

675
00:45:32,800 --> 00:45:36,279
Speaker 8: makes me really mard actually, but ye'll try and keep

676
00:45:36,280 --> 00:45:36,759
Speaker 8: a lid on that.

677
00:45:38,280 --> 00:45:41,240
Speaker 2: What do you think Graham and Rochelle would think about

678
00:45:41,760 --> 00:45:45,880
Speaker 2: you and Christy doing this podcast and driving this campaign

679
00:45:45,920 --> 00:45:46,719
Speaker 2: for justice?

680
00:45:46,840 --> 00:45:47,680
Speaker 8: They'd be amazed.

681
00:45:49,040 --> 00:45:53,040
Speaker 15: That's softer Christie, because she's she instigated all of this,

682
00:45:54,040 --> 00:45:57,080
Speaker 15: and they'd be very very proud, very proud.

683
00:45:58,440 --> 00:46:00,120
Speaker 8: But yeah, just own me away.

684
00:46:01,239 --> 00:46:05,720
Speaker 1: I've told her that here we have Rachelle Charles suiting

685
00:46:05,800 --> 00:46:08,200
Speaker 1: up for a qualifying stint.

686
00:46:09,160 --> 00:46:11,520
Speaker 3: Is it going to be a blinder if I get

687
00:46:11,520 --> 00:46:12,439
Speaker 3: the fucking hell on.

688
00:46:16,480 --> 00:46:20,880
Speaker 7: Number four? I hope we have made you proud. I

689
00:46:20,920 --> 00:46:25,080
Speaker 7: hope you were proud of me, Mum, mindy Ash and

690
00:46:25,120 --> 00:46:28,560
Speaker 7: the ever growing Teamshell. I hope you love the voice

691
00:46:28,600 --> 00:46:30,879
Speaker 7: we have given you and the way the country has

692
00:46:30,920 --> 00:46:33,960
Speaker 7: fallen in love with you. I hope you are proud

693
00:46:34,000 --> 00:46:36,839
Speaker 7: of all the beautiful women who have come forward to

694
00:46:36,840 --> 00:46:39,920
Speaker 7: tell their painful stories to help us find justice for you.

695
00:46:41,200 --> 00:46:44,759
Speaker 7: What a powerful voice we have given you, just as

696
00:46:44,800 --> 00:46:48,120
Speaker 7: loud and as bright as you were in life. He

697
00:46:48,200 --> 00:46:50,560
Speaker 7: took your future, but look how you have found a

698
00:46:50,600 --> 00:46:52,279
Speaker 7: way to still shine.

699
00:46:58,160 --> 00:47:02,760
Speaker 15: If that girl with me, my mother would have fought

700
00:47:02,800 --> 00:47:05,040
Speaker 15: tooth and nail to get justice.

701
00:47:05,719 --> 00:47:05,879
Speaker 19: Ah.

702
00:47:06,000 --> 00:47:10,200
Speaker 7: If I can do anything that is going to put

703
00:47:10,280 --> 00:47:14,120
Speaker 7: him away and stop, he would still be doing the

704
00:47:14,160 --> 00:47:14,960
Speaker 7: same sort of thing.

705
00:47:15,560 --> 00:47:19,319
Speaker 8: It's not about us, it's about getting her justice. Now

706
00:47:20,160 --> 00:47:23,000
Speaker 8: our time's over and he can't hurt us anymore. He

707
00:47:23,040 --> 00:47:24,560
Speaker 8: doesn't scare me at all anymore.

708
00:47:25,040 --> 00:47:26,959
Speaker 20: I just couldn't stand the thought I thought that poor

709
00:47:27,000 --> 00:47:29,680
Speaker 20: mother and her sister and her father are going through.

710
00:47:30,520 --> 00:47:32,640
Speaker 20: Not if I can help in any little way. It'd

711
00:47:32,640 --> 00:47:34,839
Speaker 20: be probably one of the good things that I've done

712
00:47:34,880 --> 00:47:36,000
Speaker 20: in my life.

713
00:47:36,320 --> 00:47:38,840
Speaker 19: Talking about how much I love my dad and the

714
00:47:38,920 --> 00:47:40,799
Speaker 19: good things that most people wouldn't know.

715
00:47:42,480 --> 00:47:46,160
Speaker 1: It feels horrible, it hurts. It hurts a lot too

716
00:47:46,200 --> 00:47:51,720
Speaker 1: openly declare this, but it needs to happen.

717
00:47:57,440 --> 00:47:59,160
Speaker 6: We're just cooling the car down.

718
00:48:00,560 --> 00:48:05,399
Speaker 2: He's asking Christians, drop a set han is there?

719
00:48:05,440 --> 00:48:06,240
Speaker 10: It all happens.

720
00:48:07,040 --> 00:48:11,600
Speaker 17: You got your little speito, you got some seats, but

721
00:48:11,760 --> 00:48:12,520
Speaker 17: you got it all.

722
00:48:13,600 --> 00:48:14,400
Speaker 3: It's okay.

723
00:48:16,239 --> 00:48:20,520
Speaker 8: Number five. I see you all the signs.

724
00:48:20,840 --> 00:48:25,560
Speaker 7: I see them, the number plates, the feathers, the numbers,

725
00:48:25,920 --> 00:48:29,239
Speaker 7: and the people that you place in my path. I

726
00:48:29,280 --> 00:48:32,719
Speaker 7: can feel you with me, which sounds batshit crazy, but

727
00:48:32,880 --> 00:48:37,240
Speaker 7: you're there. I feel close to you again. I feel

728
00:48:37,239 --> 00:48:39,239
Speaker 7: closer to you than I have felt in a really

729
00:48:39,280 --> 00:48:45,759
Speaker 7: long time. And I won't stop fighting for you. I

730
00:48:45,800 --> 00:48:52,799
Speaker 7: won't stop pushing, winging, advocating, finding fighting, making noise, throwing tantrums,

731
00:48:52,840 --> 00:48:57,800
Speaker 7: and being annoying until one of two things happens. A

732
00:48:57,800 --> 00:49:01,839
Speaker 7: A life sentence is handed down or B I die.

733
00:49:02,680 --> 00:49:05,879
Speaker 7: Don't worry if B comes before A team shell will

734
00:49:05,920 --> 00:49:10,239
Speaker 7: take over until we achieve A. It was always about you, sheell,

735
00:49:10,800 --> 00:49:15,040
Speaker 7: never about the story. You are so much more than

736
00:49:15,080 --> 00:49:15,440
Speaker 7: the end.

737
00:49:15,440 --> 00:49:17,080
Speaker 8: Of your life.

738
00:49:17,760 --> 00:49:24,720
Speaker 7: You are so special, so brave, so funny, loyal, kind,

739
00:49:25,080 --> 00:49:26,040
Speaker 7: and so loved.

740
00:49:32,080 --> 00:49:34,640
Speaker 8: Ohmen, go ahead, lose it.

741
00:49:34,800 --> 00:49:38,520
Speaker 6: Lose it, hey, Bob, here we go.

742
00:49:40,480 --> 00:49:44,280
Speaker 7: Love your smelly love, krusty.

743
00:49:47,960 --> 00:49:49,799
Speaker 3: Lasting the words before you go out on the track,

744
00:49:52,000 --> 00:49:52,919
Speaker 3: go hard or go home.

745
00:49:54,560 --> 00:49:55,719
Speaker 6: And this is the beginning lesson.

746
00:49:55,760 --> 00:49:57,160
Speaker 2: We're gonna watch, Chelle goes.

747
00:49:57,080 --> 00:50:08,160
Speaker 19: Wh that's good practice.

748
00:50:09,600 --> 00:50:10,280
Speaker 8: Dear Shelle.

749
00:50:11,400 --> 00:50:14,080
Speaker 15: I hope that what we're doing here sits okay with you.

750
00:50:15,120 --> 00:50:18,080
Speaker 15: It doesn't sit right with me at all. It's purely

751
00:50:18,200 --> 00:50:22,160
Speaker 15: a matter of necessity. It breaks my heart yet again

752
00:50:22,800 --> 00:50:26,960
Speaker 15: to have your life shared with such a massive, worldwide audience.

753
00:50:28,000 --> 00:50:30,759
Speaker 15: Yet in the same breath, it warms my heart as

754
00:50:30,800 --> 00:50:34,880
Speaker 15: I read your families, your friends, and even strange as

755
00:50:34,960 --> 00:50:39,840
Speaker 15: beautiful thoughts, words and experiences regarding you and how you

756
00:50:39,920 --> 00:50:41,320
Speaker 15: were in life.

757
00:50:41,440 --> 00:50:42,640
Speaker 8: You are such a presence.

758
00:50:43,520 --> 00:50:46,640
Speaker 15: I'm sure both you and Dad are so so proud

759
00:50:46,760 --> 00:50:50,640
Speaker 15: of Chris and team shall and what they've achieved in

760
00:50:50,680 --> 00:50:54,680
Speaker 15: the last twelve months. They won't rest until someone has

761
00:50:54,760 --> 00:50:59,440
Speaker 15: been held responsible, made accountable, and brought to justice for

762
00:50:59,520 --> 00:51:00,839
Speaker 15: taking you away from us.

763
00:51:01,080 --> 00:51:01,680
Speaker 10: So early.

764
00:51:02,880 --> 00:51:07,080
Speaker 15: You most definitely did not deserve this bubbs. So bear

765
00:51:07,120 --> 00:51:10,440
Speaker 15: with us, my beautiful girl, as we navigate our way through.

766
00:51:11,400 --> 00:51:13,280
Speaker 8: We all love you to the moon and beyond.

767
00:51:14,320 --> 00:51:14,919
Speaker 6: Love MoU.

768
00:51:28,280 --> 00:51:32,359
Speaker 2: Bear with us too. Behind the scenes, our investigative team

769
00:51:32,440 --> 00:51:37,959
Speaker 2: has been working furiously chasing new leads. The paperboy from

770
00:51:37,960 --> 00:51:42,080
Speaker 2: a tiny coastal town just north of GIRoA has come forward.

771
00:51:43,080 --> 00:51:46,040
Speaker 2: Damien Luna and I went to meet Matt Wilson at

772
00:51:46,080 --> 00:51:49,839
Speaker 2: Gerngong in the hope it will trigger his memory from

773
00:51:49,880 --> 00:51:55,760
Speaker 2: twenty four years ago. How quiet is this street usually

774
00:51:55,800 --> 00:51:56,920
Speaker 2: at one thirty in the morning.

775
00:51:57,040 --> 00:52:01,080
Speaker 21: Our did, Yeah, luck, so you drop a pin, I said,

776
00:52:01,080 --> 00:52:02,640
Speaker 21: I can hear a car coming from the top of

777
00:52:02,680 --> 00:52:05,399
Speaker 21: the street or even stunt from the top of their

778
00:52:05,400 --> 00:52:05,879
Speaker 21: coming down.

779
00:52:07,120 --> 00:52:09,239
Speaker 6: So it's yeah, pretty quiet.

780
00:52:09,680 --> 00:52:12,680
Speaker 21: And usually once I hear something normally up and about,

781
00:52:13,520 --> 00:52:16,560
Speaker 21: just you know, a look, just to see what's happening.

782
00:52:16,680 --> 00:52:17,880
Speaker 2: What were you doing at the time.

783
00:52:18,640 --> 00:52:22,560
Speaker 21: I was employed as a delivery for the papers, so

784
00:52:22,719 --> 00:52:25,480
Speaker 21: I delivered the papers to the customers. I caught it

785
00:52:25,480 --> 00:52:28,279
Speaker 21: the grave yuts for sixty hours late at night, twelve

786
00:52:28,320 --> 00:52:30,720
Speaker 21: o'clock one weeks to five five thirty in the morning.

787
00:52:31,040 --> 00:52:34,200
Speaker 4: Take us back to that night in June two thousand

788
00:52:34,200 --> 00:52:34,600
Speaker 4: and one.

789
00:52:34,760 --> 00:52:38,239
Speaker 6: What do you remember well that night? I remember the

790
00:52:38,320 --> 00:52:39,640
Speaker 6: seventh was the first day night.

791
00:52:39,880 --> 00:52:43,520
Speaker 21: It had been raining pretty essentially up home, and I

792
00:52:43,640 --> 00:52:47,799
Speaker 21: decided to come down early to get the papers off

793
00:52:47,880 --> 00:52:52,600
Speaker 21: the street before the rain got tour So I got

794
00:52:52,640 --> 00:52:56,759
Speaker 21: down here about eleven thirty at night, which is an

795
00:52:56,840 --> 00:52:59,480
Speaker 21: hour before that I would normally arrived.

796
00:53:00,200 --> 00:53:04,400
Speaker 2: We know Rochelle, her killer and her car likely covered

797
00:53:04,440 --> 00:53:08,160
Speaker 2: more than two hundred kilometers that night. And just like

798
00:53:08,200 --> 00:53:13,759
Speaker 2: every phone call, every stop, and every sighting is pivotal,

799
00:53:14,480 --> 00:53:18,040
Speaker 2: what the paperboy witnessed that night Rochelle was murdered could

800
00:53:18,120 --> 00:53:20,920
Speaker 2: spark a major breakthrough in the case.

801
00:53:21,760 --> 00:53:28,480
Speaker 21: About one third in the morning, rough guess, because twenty

802
00:53:28,480 --> 00:53:31,160
Speaker 21: four years ago is a long time, and I just

803
00:53:31,200 --> 00:53:33,040
Speaker 21: heard a bit of a noise. The car was going

804
00:53:33,080 --> 00:53:36,920
Speaker 21: over the Potestian crossing up there, so I decided to.

805
00:53:36,840 --> 00:53:39,000
Speaker 6: Get up have a good look at the door.

806
00:53:39,600 --> 00:53:42,000
Speaker 21: I was looking up the street and I look up

807
00:53:42,080 --> 00:53:44,240
Speaker 21: and I noticed two cars that coming down the street.

808
00:53:45,200 --> 00:53:49,120
Speaker 21: The first car was a dark blue Commodore in the

809
00:53:49,200 --> 00:53:53,839
Speaker 21: windows mag wills and had a black plates for fire.

810
00:53:54,600 --> 00:53:59,760
Speaker 21: Writing on the recollection, I'm pretty sure GV two thousand

811
00:53:59,800 --> 00:54:01,200
Speaker 21: on the plate on it.

812
00:54:01,680 --> 00:54:05,360
Speaker 2: GV two thousand, that's Rochelle's number plate.

813
00:54:05,960 --> 00:54:09,720
Speaker 21: I sort of set back a bit because I noticed

814
00:54:09,760 --> 00:54:15,080
Speaker 21: the vehicle behind was probably a car to carve behind

815
00:54:15,120 --> 00:54:20,040
Speaker 21: it so reasonbly faced so they wouldn't see me deliberately

816
00:54:20,080 --> 00:54:21,200
Speaker 21: looking at them.

817
00:54:21,600 --> 00:54:23,600
Speaker 6: I also noticed that.

818
00:54:23,640 --> 00:54:26,040
Speaker 21: The car in front looked like a mile figure in

819
00:54:26,080 --> 00:54:27,160
Speaker 21: the dragon's seat.

820
00:54:27,400 --> 00:54:30,360
Speaker 6: But that's all I could see. The darkness and the

821
00:54:30,400 --> 00:54:31,040
Speaker 6: weather wise.

822
00:54:31,719 --> 00:54:34,560
Speaker 21: The second car, I don't know what model it was

823
00:54:34,840 --> 00:54:40,320
Speaker 21: it was today. The color again it's been so long,

824
00:54:42,440 --> 00:54:46,400
Speaker 21: yellow all red. It wasn't brown, blue, pink or whatever.

825
00:54:46,640 --> 00:54:51,240
Speaker 21: It was yellow red. I just got those kind of stuck.

826
00:54:51,040 --> 00:54:51,479
Speaker 6: In my head.

827
00:54:51,640 --> 00:54:54,000
Speaker 2: How vivid is that night in your memory?

828
00:54:54,480 --> 00:54:55,000
Speaker 6: Very vivid.

829
00:54:55,080 --> 00:54:58,239
Speaker 21: I remember a lot of the details, down to like

830
00:54:58,320 --> 00:55:03,240
Speaker 21: it was cold, being rain, inflections of the road, dead sides.

831
00:55:04,160 --> 00:55:06,960
Speaker 6: Yeah, we'll see how noises when cars go pass? Now?

832
00:55:08,600 --> 00:55:10,440
Speaker 22: Is it unusual for one third in the morning for

833
00:55:10,440 --> 00:55:13,920
Speaker 22: two coming down here together? And you would know that

834
00:55:13,920 --> 00:55:16,160
Speaker 22: because you're you're out here work and that's.

835
00:55:16,520 --> 00:55:17,360
Speaker 6: Quite rarely.

836
00:55:19,000 --> 00:55:21,920
Speaker 4: Being so Yet you mentioned you had this instinct to

837
00:55:22,239 --> 00:55:24,200
Speaker 4: duck when you saw that second car.

838
00:55:25,000 --> 00:55:28,439
Speaker 21: What just the way they were traveling like it looks

839
00:55:28,480 --> 00:55:32,480
Speaker 21: like they possibly could have been together. And usually my

840
00:55:32,600 --> 00:55:36,400
Speaker 21: incident is, well, you know, there's two cars, one person

841
00:55:36,400 --> 00:55:38,720
Speaker 21: in the shop. I don't want to draw attention to myself,

842
00:55:38,880 --> 00:55:41,040
Speaker 21: so that's why I sort of step back with it

843
00:55:41,120 --> 00:55:44,080
Speaker 21: more and look like I was looking at the shelves.

844
00:55:44,239 --> 00:55:45,720
Speaker 2: Were you working in the shop alone?

845
00:55:45,920 --> 00:55:46,920
Speaker 6: Yes? Yes?

846
00:55:47,120 --> 00:55:49,719
Speaker 4: When did you realize it was a significant sighting?

847
00:55:50,239 --> 00:55:54,799
Speaker 21: Well, a couple of days after Rochelle was found down

848
00:55:54,920 --> 00:55:59,719
Speaker 21: Draw they did a news conference on the news and

849
00:55:59,760 --> 00:56:03,120
Speaker 21: we're down having dinner and I just said to my

850
00:56:03,239 --> 00:56:05,840
Speaker 21: mum and dad, that's the car that I saw comfort

851
00:56:05,960 --> 00:56:07,839
Speaker 21: jairing and I said the plate.

852
00:56:08,320 --> 00:56:12,280
Speaker 2: How soon did you go to police after Roselle's murder?

853
00:56:12,440 --> 00:56:16,239
Speaker 6: Probably it might have been a couple of days of maybe.

854
00:56:15,719 --> 00:56:18,320
Speaker 2: A week when you saw that police appeal.

855
00:56:18,560 --> 00:56:21,120
Speaker 21: Yes, yeah, when I saw the appeal on the TV,

856
00:56:21,320 --> 00:56:24,319
Speaker 21: and you know they were floating the photo about the

857
00:56:24,400 --> 00:56:25,879
Speaker 21: car around and.

858
00:56:25,880 --> 00:56:29,920
Speaker 22: You recall are you telling an opposite your version of events?

859
00:56:30,120 --> 00:56:31,720
Speaker 6: I told him my version of events.

860
00:56:31,920 --> 00:56:34,680
Speaker 22: And you recall signing that in a notebook.

861
00:56:34,360 --> 00:56:38,320
Speaker 6: A notebook, a notebook, It wasn't typed up in any well.

862
00:56:38,160 --> 00:56:40,840
Speaker 22: That would probably be that it was a uniform constable

863
00:56:40,920 --> 00:56:44,919
Speaker 22: at the front counter of a police station. Otherwise, under

864
00:56:45,000 --> 00:56:47,800
Speaker 22: a criminal investigation a type statement would have been taken.

865
00:56:48,520 --> 00:56:52,200
Speaker 22: So you know it's probably if it hasn't come into evidence,

866
00:56:52,280 --> 00:56:54,640
Speaker 22: it's probably that notebook's probably been filed.

867
00:56:55,000 --> 00:56:57,600
Speaker 4: How hopeful are you that that statement still exists?

868
00:56:57,719 --> 00:56:57,839
Speaker 10: Oh?

869
00:56:58,040 --> 00:57:00,920
Speaker 22: Absolutely, still there. It's in that place. It was his notebook.

870
00:57:01,360 --> 00:57:03,239
Speaker 22: You have to their accountable they call what they call

871
00:57:03,320 --> 00:57:06,720
Speaker 22: accountable books in the police force. And once your book

872
00:57:06,800 --> 00:57:09,279
Speaker 22: is exhausted, you have to have a new one. You

873
00:57:09,360 --> 00:57:14,000
Speaker 22: issued a new one by a muse inspector. That's handed back,

874
00:57:14,560 --> 00:57:18,160
Speaker 22: been given to the public servant staff and they index

875
00:57:18,240 --> 00:57:20,680
Speaker 22: that number and they filed away and it's boxed up

876
00:57:20,960 --> 00:57:24,120
Speaker 22: and sent to archives. This is really important information. In

877
00:57:24,160 --> 00:57:29,040
Speaker 22: the early hours of Friday morning, Matt, the witness sees

878
00:57:29,080 --> 00:57:33,600
Speaker 22: and recalls a blue Commodore coming down this freight behind me,

879
00:57:34,960 --> 00:57:38,960
Speaker 22: traveling south about one thirty am in the morning. Now

880
00:57:39,000 --> 00:57:42,680
Speaker 22: we know Rochelle's body was found shortly after two am

881
00:57:42,760 --> 00:57:46,520
Speaker 22: on the Friday morning, and that would mean and it's

882
00:57:46,560 --> 00:57:49,840
Speaker 22: not far from here, so critically important. Here is a

883
00:57:49,840 --> 00:57:53,240
Speaker 22: timestamp of what he saw at the time and as

884
00:57:53,280 --> 00:57:55,560
Speaker 22: we know by the time you get from here down

885
00:57:55,600 --> 00:57:58,760
Speaker 22: to where the crime scene was, where Rochelle's body was found.

886
00:57:59,440 --> 00:58:03,240
Speaker 22: It just shortly be before two am, and thereafter security

887
00:58:03,240 --> 00:58:06,280
Speaker 22: guard found her body a light in the scrubland on

888
00:58:06,320 --> 00:58:07,240
Speaker 22: the Crooked River Road.

889
00:58:07,960 --> 00:58:11,840
Speaker 2: How significant is Matt as a witness in this case?

890
00:58:12,200 --> 00:58:13,320
Speaker 22: Absolute? Critical?

891
00:58:13,760 --> 00:58:16,760
Speaker 4: How would you describe the information that Matt has so

892
00:58:16,960 --> 00:58:17,720
Speaker 4: kindly shared?

893
00:58:18,280 --> 00:58:24,400
Speaker 22: Compelling, believable, accurate, and it has stayed in his mind

894
00:58:24,480 --> 00:58:28,480
Speaker 22: because he saw something on that night and that it

895
00:58:28,560 --> 00:58:31,080
Speaker 22: made him to look out onto the roadway and then

896
00:58:31,400 --> 00:58:34,960
Speaker 22: he sees the homicide days later in the media and

897
00:58:35,000 --> 00:58:37,040
Speaker 22: he said, that's the car I saw, and he quickly

898
00:58:37,080 --> 00:58:39,960
Speaker 22: tells his mom and dad at dinner time, and then

899
00:58:39,960 --> 00:58:42,680
Speaker 22: within a day or a few days later, he's reporting

900
00:58:42,720 --> 00:58:45,200
Speaker 22: what he saw to rebel a police station. And it's

901
00:58:45,240 --> 00:58:49,800
Speaker 22: critical because we have the time, what weeknight it was,

902
00:58:50,720 --> 00:58:52,920
Speaker 22: and within half an hour Roselle's body being found.

903
00:58:53,360 --> 00:58:56,120
Speaker 4: Do you think that unsolved homicide squad would be keen

904
00:58:56,280 --> 00:58:57,320
Speaker 4: to speak to Matt?

905
00:58:57,440 --> 00:59:01,320
Speaker 22: Absolutely? Thanks for coming forward, my pleasure.

906
00:59:01,400 --> 00:59:03,280
Speaker 6: I just I wish I did it sooner.

907
00:59:03,320 --> 00:59:06,120
Speaker 22: You know, well, you did the right thing. You didn't

908
00:59:06,120 --> 00:59:06,800
Speaker 22: come forward, I.

909
00:59:06,720 --> 00:59:11,000
Speaker 21: Honestly, like one says I didn't get no confilmation back

910
00:59:11,600 --> 00:59:12,360
Speaker 21: with the report.

911
00:59:12,880 --> 00:59:15,680
Speaker 6: I just can't know. Well, yeah, I should have been no.

912
00:59:16,320 --> 00:59:18,919
Speaker 22: No, no, you did the right thing. But as I said,

913
00:59:18,920 --> 00:59:22,920
Speaker 22: this is so important to these cold cases where this

914
00:59:23,040 --> 00:59:26,200
Speaker 22: evidence comes to light that may have been mislaid or

915
00:59:26,280 --> 00:59:30,760
Speaker 22: misplaced during the initial investigation. And this, now you're your

916
00:59:30,920 --> 00:59:33,920
Speaker 22: what's your witness is so important and crucial because as

917
00:59:33,960 --> 00:59:36,800
Speaker 22: I said earlier, it gives us the time, It gives

918
00:59:36,880 --> 00:59:41,560
Speaker 22: us a time of night, a day, and also within

919
00:59:41,640 --> 00:59:44,240
Speaker 22: a half an hour of Brousselle's body being found not

920
00:59:44,360 --> 00:59:49,919
Speaker 22: far from here, and it's with an easy fifteen minute

921
00:59:50,000 --> 00:59:53,840
Speaker 22: drive from here. So it just puts it so significantly

922
00:59:54,360 --> 00:59:56,920
Speaker 22: appropriate at the time that he saw a car that

923
00:59:57,000 --> 00:59:59,960
Speaker 22: mat sort that those two cars traveling down this road,

924
01:00:00,440 --> 01:00:02,840
Speaker 22: particularly one of them, we know more than likely and

925
01:00:02,880 --> 01:00:04,360
Speaker 22: more than highly likely it's Chelle's.

926
01:00:05,600 --> 01:00:09,920
Speaker 4: Police are currently enhancing CCTV from the night. So now

927
01:00:10,560 --> 01:00:14,919
Speaker 4: this possible two car theory, will that be something they'll

928
01:00:14,960 --> 01:00:15,520
Speaker 4: be looking at?

929
01:00:16,000 --> 01:00:18,160
Speaker 22: Oh absolutely, I'd say so yeah, And you'll be silly

930
01:00:18,200 --> 01:00:21,680
Speaker 22: not to. You know, you have to eliminate that second vehicle,

931
01:00:22,840 --> 01:00:24,760
Speaker 22: and we know that the first one. Now what I've

932
01:00:25,080 --> 01:00:28,480
Speaker 22: told me and yourself. It has to be out of

933
01:00:28,560 --> 01:00:32,840
Speaker 22: the possibilities. It has to be her car. So what's

934
01:00:32,880 --> 01:00:35,479
Speaker 22: the significant interest of the second car if it comes

935
01:00:35,480 --> 01:00:37,560
Speaker 22: in a play at all? But you have to eliminate it.

936
01:00:37,640 --> 01:00:41,160
Speaker 4: Now, if that second car is related, does that open

937
01:00:41,280 --> 01:00:46,800
Speaker 4: up more opportunities with CCTV for that car being located

938
01:00:47,200 --> 01:00:50,440
Speaker 4: potentially spotted on a CCTV camera.

939
01:00:50,240 --> 01:00:52,840
Speaker 22: Getting the fuel Absolutely, because now we have not only

940
01:00:52,920 --> 01:00:58,200
Speaker 22: one car, we're looking for two, and the investigation will

941
01:00:58,240 --> 01:01:00,560
Speaker 22: be looking for similar make and model the car that

942
01:01:00,640 --> 01:01:03,320
Speaker 22: match described, you know, even though it's a sedan, possibly

943
01:01:03,600 --> 01:01:07,440
Speaker 22: two different colors. But if they're seen in concert with

944
01:01:07,520 --> 01:01:10,360
Speaker 22: a blue commodore in a service station somewhere and another

945
01:01:10,440 --> 01:01:13,640
Speaker 22: vehicle pulls up beside it, it may be the case

946
01:01:13,680 --> 01:01:16,520
Speaker 22: that that registration may be obtained through enhancement of any

947
01:01:16,600 --> 01:01:21,120
Speaker 22: CCTV that the police may get hold of or obtained

948
01:01:21,280 --> 01:01:24,600
Speaker 22: in the early days after the investigation. Do you have

949
01:01:24,680 --> 01:01:29,080
Speaker 22: to ask yourself were they traveling in tandem together or

950
01:01:29,200 --> 01:01:32,160
Speaker 22: was it the fact that one car was traveling slow

951
01:01:32,640 --> 01:01:35,440
Speaker 22: and the other car behind us traveling quicker and was

952
01:01:35,480 --> 01:01:39,680
Speaker 22: trying to tailgate, trying to find an overtaking name quicker,

953
01:01:39,880 --> 01:01:42,640
Speaker 22: Because as you know, this is a fifty kilometer hour

954
01:01:42,720 --> 01:01:46,000
Speaker 22: zone through here. It's a small street, it's narrow, and

955
01:01:46,000 --> 01:01:51,200
Speaker 22: you're heading up to a long incline at one thirty

956
01:01:51,200 --> 01:01:54,040
Speaker 22: in the morning. Two of them together. Is it possible, Yes,

957
01:01:54,040 --> 01:01:56,840
Speaker 22: it is possible. This is the first time we've ever

958
01:01:56,880 --> 01:02:00,840
Speaker 22: heard of two vehicles. But why does the second vehicle

959
01:02:00,960 --> 01:02:04,720
Speaker 22: come into play so importantly when we know that Michelle's

960
01:02:04,800 --> 01:02:07,240
Speaker 22: vehicle had been used because the club block was put

961
01:02:07,280 --> 01:02:09,320
Speaker 22: on the wrong way, so it had to be her

962
01:02:09,400 --> 01:02:14,120
Speaker 22: car being driven. What wasn't it unnecessary to having two cars?

963
01:02:14,560 --> 01:02:16,480
Speaker 2: Could we be looking for two offenders?

964
01:02:16,680 --> 01:02:26,120
Speaker 22: Could be quite possibly, quite possibly, But you can't You

965
01:02:26,200 --> 01:02:28,520
Speaker 22: have to really eliminate that second vehicle if it's going

966
01:02:28,560 --> 01:02:29,640
Speaker 22: to be a vehicle of interest or not.

967
01:02:33,840 --> 01:02:36,520
Speaker 2: One person who won't be surprised by the siting of

968
01:02:36,520 --> 01:02:41,640
Speaker 2: a second car is FBI trained criminal profile Chris Illingsworth.

969
01:02:42,440 --> 01:02:45,120
Speaker 2: In two thousand and three, she worked on Rochelle's case

970
01:02:45,720 --> 01:02:49,200
Speaker 2: and it's stuck with her now. As a retired detective,

971
01:02:49,560 --> 01:02:52,600
Speaker 2: she's been looking over the case again and can offer

972
01:02:52,640 --> 01:02:56,320
Speaker 2: a more detailed analysis about what she believes happened to

973
01:02:56,400 --> 01:03:00,520
Speaker 2: Rochelle and the type of person or people who could

974
01:03:00,560 --> 01:03:01,439
Speaker 2: be responsible.

975
01:03:03,000 --> 01:03:07,480
Speaker 1: She's now deceased. He has to decide what to do.

976
01:03:08,840 --> 01:03:11,560
Speaker 1: I believe they'd be panic. So does he deal with

977
01:03:11,600 --> 01:03:13,440
Speaker 1: it all on his own or does he get a

978
01:03:13,480 --> 01:03:16,320
Speaker 1: second does he dial friend? Does he go somewhere and

979
01:03:16,360 --> 01:03:20,240
Speaker 1: get some help. I think it's more likely he got

980
01:03:20,440 --> 01:03:27,320
Speaker 1: some help. There's some very strong indicators that there was

981
01:03:27,400 --> 01:03:32,640
Speaker 1: someone there who had extensive knowledge about forensic awareness.

982
01:03:33,640 --> 01:03:36,240
Speaker 2: Like the rest of us. Chris is trying to figure

983
01:03:36,240 --> 01:03:38,960
Speaker 2: out where exactly Rachelle was killed.

984
01:03:40,280 --> 01:03:45,280
Speaker 1: Firstly, the sheet that was found a couple of kilometers

985
01:03:45,320 --> 01:03:49,600
Speaker 1: from the body obviously has something to do with the crime.

986
01:03:49,640 --> 01:03:52,600
Speaker 1: Has come from the rear of her car, and it

987
01:03:52,640 --> 01:03:55,880
Speaker 1: was actually holding up the vertical spare tire in the

988
01:03:55,920 --> 01:04:00,560
Speaker 1: rear boot. So that sheet has to be and her

989
01:04:00,640 --> 01:04:08,240
Speaker 1: cargo has to be close to the murder singe. Because

990
01:04:08,240 --> 01:04:12,600
Speaker 1: the sheet's not used, it's my understanding, my recollection. The

991
01:04:12,640 --> 01:04:16,600
Speaker 1: sheet's not used to drag the body at the crime site,

992
01:04:16,640 --> 01:04:20,480
Speaker 1: at the body disposal site, like, no drag masks. It

993
01:04:20,600 --> 01:04:23,960
Speaker 1: was a wet night, no dirt, nothing like that on

994
01:04:24,000 --> 01:04:28,880
Speaker 1: the sheet. So the sheet's not got anything to do

995
01:04:28,960 --> 01:04:31,760
Speaker 1: with the actual disposal site, but it's got something to

996
01:04:31,760 --> 01:04:35,320
Speaker 1: do with the murder. Then why not just leave the

997
01:04:35,360 --> 01:04:38,360
Speaker 1: sheet there? Why would you go to the effort of

998
01:04:39,440 --> 01:04:41,640
Speaker 1: hiding it. Why not just put the sheet back into

999
01:04:41,680 --> 01:04:44,240
Speaker 1: the boot where it came from, next to the tire.

1000
01:04:44,800 --> 01:04:49,480
Speaker 1: Who's going to be any the wiser. So that says

1001
01:04:49,480 --> 01:04:54,440
Speaker 1: that this offender was very aware of the likelihood of

1002
01:04:55,040 --> 01:04:58,760
Speaker 1: physical evidence on that sheet and that sheep that evidence

1003
01:04:58,800 --> 01:05:02,920
Speaker 1: would be if DNA. So the offender is very aware,

1004
01:05:03,320 --> 01:05:05,640
Speaker 1: I believe of these things. It shows a very high

1005
01:05:05,720 --> 01:05:09,880
Speaker 1: witness in two thousand and one. So to me, that

1006
01:05:09,960 --> 01:05:17,520
Speaker 1: speaks to criminality, a criminal seeking criminal experience, and if

1007
01:05:17,520 --> 01:05:19,960
Speaker 1: you don't have that experience yourself, then someone who you

1008
01:05:20,040 --> 01:05:23,960
Speaker 1: can call upon who does have that experience, and that

1009
01:05:24,000 --> 01:05:28,880
Speaker 1: person could be from the criminal meleu or could be

1010
01:05:29,000 --> 01:05:33,760
Speaker 1: someone who's involved in the criminal justice system such as

1011
01:05:34,000 --> 01:05:36,680
Speaker 1: lawyers would know this stuff and police.

1012
01:05:36,360 --> 01:05:37,680
Speaker 2: Officers would know this stuff.

1013
01:05:38,880 --> 01:05:41,280
Speaker 1: So I think the person's got help from someone who's

1014
01:05:41,320 --> 01:05:45,200
Speaker 1: got that sort of knowledge, and getting rid of the

1015
01:05:45,200 --> 01:05:48,880
Speaker 1: sheet is really significant both to the defender and in

1016
01:05:48,920 --> 01:05:57,200
Speaker 1: the crime analysis. Most likely the offender is then well,

1017
01:05:57,240 --> 01:05:59,400
Speaker 1: I think he's got that second person to help, and

1018
01:05:59,440 --> 01:06:05,720
Speaker 1: the second has probably come to the location and there's

1019
01:06:05,760 --> 01:06:08,640
Speaker 1: been a decision made about what to do, how to

1020
01:06:08,680 --> 01:06:11,880
Speaker 1: dispose of all this evidence, and how to make it

1021
01:06:11,920 --> 01:06:15,280
Speaker 1: look like something that it's not. And the something that

1022
01:06:15,320 --> 01:06:18,960
Speaker 1: it's not part is the staged car scene at the

1023
01:06:18,960 --> 01:06:20,040
Speaker 1: rear of Bargo Pub.

1024
01:06:22,000 --> 01:06:23,000
Speaker 10: So that's stage.

1025
01:06:23,040 --> 01:06:26,800
Speaker 1: We know it's stage because Rachelle didn't drive it there.

1026
01:06:26,840 --> 01:06:32,720
Speaker 1: She didn't park it there, steering his upside downs, not

1027
01:06:32,880 --> 01:06:34,920
Speaker 1: the way she would put it, the car seats not

1028
01:06:34,960 --> 01:06:39,400
Speaker 1: in the right position for her. And there's something else

1029
01:06:39,440 --> 01:06:42,280
Speaker 1: that I won't say on your podcast, but something else

1030
01:06:42,320 --> 01:06:47,840
Speaker 1: that strongly indicates that the offender that will actually approve

1031
01:06:47,960 --> 01:06:51,440
Speaker 1: that she didn't drive it, someone else did just there.

1032
01:06:52,640 --> 01:06:54,640
Speaker 1: So the only reason to do that, to put the

1033
01:06:54,680 --> 01:06:58,800
Speaker 1: car there, would be to make it look like something

1034
01:06:58,840 --> 01:07:02,800
Speaker 1: that's not stage. And the only people whose stage crime

1035
01:07:02,880 --> 01:07:05,240
Speaker 1: scenes are the people who feel that they can be

1036
01:07:05,400 --> 01:07:08,960
Speaker 1: connected closely to the victim and to the murder in

1037
01:07:09,040 --> 01:07:12,479
Speaker 1: some way, So they're trying to misdirect the investigation making

1038
01:07:12,520 --> 01:07:14,400
Speaker 1: by making it look like something that it's not.

1039
01:07:17,320 --> 01:07:21,280
Speaker 2: All the experts agree Rochelle knew and trusted her killer.

1040
01:07:22,000 --> 01:07:26,640
Speaker 2: Now we're asking did someone help cover it up? Maybe

1041
01:07:26,640 --> 01:07:29,280
Speaker 2: they had no idea about what they were getting involved in.

1042
01:07:30,160 --> 01:07:33,000
Speaker 2: It's a heavy secret to carry for all these years.

1043
01:07:34,040 --> 01:07:36,880
Speaker 2: Did Kevin Carell lie about some of his movements on

1044
01:07:36,920 --> 01:07:41,640
Speaker 2: the night of the murder? And why playing bikis You've

1045
01:07:41,680 --> 01:07:45,200
Speaker 2: heard Christy come back to the theory was Rochelle lured

1046
01:07:45,200 --> 01:07:48,560
Speaker 2: to her death with the promise of a Walkenshaw. For

1047
01:07:48,680 --> 01:07:53,440
Speaker 2: whatever the theory or motive, justice needs to be served.

1048
01:07:54,200 --> 01:07:58,920
Speaker 2: It's long overdue. The injustice plays on all of our minds.

1049
01:08:00,160 --> 01:08:02,800
Speaker 22: Look, I think after every episode we're getting closer to

1050
01:08:02,880 --> 01:08:06,480
Speaker 22: the truth and what really happened and who or those

1051
01:08:06,560 --> 01:08:11,360
Speaker 22: personal persons may be responsible. It's about knowing that this

1052
01:08:11,400 --> 01:08:14,400
Speaker 22: twenty three year old girl and she's been dead longer

1053
01:08:14,400 --> 01:08:19,040
Speaker 22: than she was alive, and the parents and unfortunately her

1054
01:08:19,040 --> 01:08:23,280
Speaker 22: father's passed away, but Mum and Anne and sister Christian

1055
01:08:23,800 --> 01:08:28,599
Speaker 22: all friends have never had an outcome or closure. And

1056
01:08:28,680 --> 01:08:32,480
Speaker 22: I think we owe that to not only to the community,

1057
01:08:32,920 --> 01:08:36,400
Speaker 22: but to the victims of crime that have experienced such

1058
01:08:36,479 --> 01:08:42,479
Speaker 22: a disastrous and tragic murder where the young girl, Rachelle

1059
01:08:42,520 --> 01:08:44,800
Speaker 22: was just basically dumped by the side of a rhodeset

1060
01:08:44,840 --> 01:08:48,719
Speaker 22: of light and that's callous and it shows no regard

1061
01:08:48,760 --> 01:08:53,840
Speaker 22: for human life and that motivates me to help. And

1062
01:08:54,479 --> 01:08:58,880
Speaker 22: I'm always in particularly matters like these, that I'm happy

1063
01:08:58,920 --> 01:09:03,200
Speaker 22: to continue help and help where I can and look

1064
01:09:03,360 --> 01:09:07,240
Speaker 22: provide some expertise which I've gained as a detective and

1065
01:09:07,280 --> 01:09:10,120
Speaker 22: a police officer for over thirty five years. And if

1066
01:09:10,160 --> 01:09:12,479
Speaker 22: that may help, well, I hope it does. And I

1067
01:09:13,360 --> 01:09:16,519
Speaker 22: think I'm on the right track saying that, and I

1068
01:09:16,560 --> 01:09:18,880
Speaker 22: think it's important that we don't lose the sight of

1069
01:09:18,920 --> 01:09:20,040
Speaker 22: what the real objective is.

1070
01:09:20,720 --> 01:09:23,760
Speaker 2: Any final thoughts, what keeps you up at night about

1071
01:09:23,840 --> 01:09:24,400
Speaker 2: this case.

1072
01:09:24,880 --> 01:09:28,599
Speaker 22: I've got the brief, I read it daily. I'll make

1073
01:09:28,640 --> 01:09:32,960
Speaker 22: little notes. What happened that night? Why did it happen?

1074
01:09:35,000 --> 01:09:37,519
Speaker 22: You know she was feeling when all this was going on.

1075
01:09:37,560 --> 01:09:41,680
Speaker 22: There would have been some violence placed upon her at

1076
01:09:41,680 --> 01:09:45,240
Speaker 22: the time, you know, she would have been attacked, fearful.

1077
01:09:46,360 --> 01:09:50,120
Speaker 22: What was she thinking? And what was in the mind

1078
01:09:50,160 --> 01:09:51,240
Speaker 22: of the killer or killers?

1079
01:09:51,960 --> 01:09:52,240
Speaker 6: Why?

1080
01:09:53,360 --> 01:09:58,519
Speaker 22: And that's what I want to know. And as I said,

1081
01:09:58,560 --> 01:10:02,639
Speaker 22: we've got new witnesses coming for and one particularly that's

1082
01:10:02,680 --> 01:10:07,000
Speaker 22: explosive about what they saw on that Thursday night when

1083
01:10:07,080 --> 01:10:13,000
Speaker 22: Rachelle passed away. You've got to wonder anyone else out

1084
01:10:13,040 --> 01:10:17,679
Speaker 22: there that knows something and saw something back there that's

1085
01:10:17,720 --> 01:10:20,559
Speaker 22: so important but hasn't come forward, And I just wish

1086
01:10:20,840 --> 01:10:23,040
Speaker 22: that this podcast will reach out to them so they

1087
01:10:23,080 --> 01:10:27,000
Speaker 22: can come forward. It's a heavy burden carry for the

1088
01:10:27,040 --> 01:10:29,720
Speaker 22: rest of your life. You know, you'd be constant in

1089
01:10:29,800 --> 01:10:33,160
Speaker 22: looking over your shoulder if you'd know something that you

1090
01:10:33,200 --> 01:10:36,360
Speaker 22: can assist the authorities with with the apprehension of the

1091
01:10:36,400 --> 01:10:40,120
Speaker 22: offender or offenders. Please, for the sake of the family,

1092
01:10:40,400 --> 01:10:43,080
Speaker 22: for the sake of Rochelle, and for the sake of

1093
01:10:43,120 --> 01:10:46,880
Speaker 22: all victims of crime where we haven't had closure, please

1094
01:10:46,920 --> 01:10:47,479
Speaker 22: come forward.

1095
01:10:49,040 --> 01:10:52,519
Speaker 2: It's ultimately up to police delay charges, and we know

1096
01:10:52,680 --> 01:10:56,960
Speaker 2: they've reopened the investigation. With millions of people now following

1097
01:10:57,040 --> 01:11:01,559
Speaker 2: Rochelle's case, are those responsible for her life about to

1098
01:11:01,560 --> 01:11:06,920
Speaker 2: be exposed? Could you hold the key to this? Thank

1099
01:11:06,960 --> 01:11:10,519
Speaker 2: you to the experts and witnesses who will generously volunteer

1100
01:11:10,560 --> 01:11:14,839
Speaker 2: their time to participate in Dear Rochelle. I'm especially grateful

1101
01:11:14,880 --> 01:11:18,880
Speaker 2: to have worked closely with retired Detective Damien Loon. Because

1102
01:11:18,880 --> 01:11:22,800
Speaker 2: of those contributors, we've learned so much more about Rochelle,

1103
01:11:23,040 --> 01:11:27,439
Speaker 2: her murder, and the people in her life. Finally, thank

1104
01:11:27,479 --> 01:11:30,960
Speaker 2: you to Rochelle's family for trusting me with their fight.

1105
01:11:32,680 --> 01:11:36,200
Speaker 2: We're not done with our investigation. We've got so much

1106
01:11:36,200 --> 01:11:38,880
Speaker 2: more work to do and as soon as we're ready,

1107
01:11:39,600 --> 01:11:43,720
Speaker 2: we'll be back. So please keep these voices in your

1108
01:11:43,760 --> 01:11:45,280
Speaker 2: hearts and minds.

1109
01:11:52,760 --> 01:11:55,160
Speaker 1: I'm a shit video recorder all over the choppe.

1110
01:11:56,479 --> 01:11:57,240
Speaker 8: There you good thing.

1111
01:11:57,600 --> 01:12:00,519
Speaker 6: You're putting a second here and go sideways. Ye draft on.

1112
01:12:17,520 --> 01:12:29,519
Speaker 8: In loving memory of my daughter and my sister shell Re.

1113
01:12:29,720 --> 01:12:34,439
Speaker 8: We have one of the members I've Rockie team.

1114
01:12:35,720 --> 01:12:39,040
Speaker 6: YEP, and the other and me.

1115
01:12:47,479 --> 01:12:50,960
Speaker 2: Deer Rochelle is a multi media production from True Crime Australia.

1116
01:12:51,520 --> 01:12:53,040
Speaker 2: If you want to be one of the first to

1117
01:12:53,080 --> 01:12:56,519
Speaker 2: find out what happens next, go to Deer Rochelle dot

1118
01:12:56,560 --> 01:13:00,479
Speaker 2: com today you That's where eligible digital news called Australia

1119
01:13:00,560 --> 01:13:05,200
Speaker 2: subscribers get early access to podcast episodes and breaking news

1120
01:13:05,240 --> 01:13:09,519
Speaker 2: in our live investigation and you will also find exclusive videos,

1121
01:13:09,720 --> 01:13:14,080
Speaker 2: interactive evidence, feature articles and more. That's deroshell dot com

1122
01:13:14,080 --> 01:13:17,679
Speaker 2: dot AU. If you have any tips or confidential information

1123
01:13:17,760 --> 01:13:21,320
Speaker 2: to share with me, Ashley Hanson, please send an email

1124
01:13:21,439 --> 01:13:23,920
Speaker 2: to deroshell at news dot com dot A.

1125
01:13:24,040 --> 01:13:24,080
Speaker 17: You.

1126
01:13:25,080 --> 01:13:29,439
Speaker 2: Our supervising producer and audio editor is Rehys Gunter Rachel Fountain,

1127
01:13:29,520 --> 01:13:33,640
Speaker 2: his executive producer and audio director. Our executive editor is

1128
01:13:33,680 --> 01:13:38,439
Speaker 2: Sarah Blake. Our senior journalist is Patrick Carlin. Video editors

1129
01:13:38,439 --> 01:13:42,479
Speaker 2: are Gillian McNally, Owen Yang and Stephen Woods. Picture editors

1130
01:13:42,479 --> 01:13:45,360
Speaker 2: are Jeff dr Mannin and Christy Miller. Send Your Camera

1131
01:13:45,400 --> 01:13:48,960
Speaker 2: operators are Daniel Andrews and Osca Viera. We sound designed

1132
01:13:48,960 --> 01:13:53,000
Speaker 2: by Martin Perolta and Travis Evans. Thanks also to Greg

1133
01:13:53,000 --> 01:13:58,120
Speaker 2: Thompson and Lennie Panerz, show Bareo Fayguld, Vanessa Graham, Hailey Goddard,

1134
01:13:58,240 --> 01:14:03,360
Speaker 2: Stephen Grise, Charlotte Carr, Tina Coggins, and Harry Hughes. Special

1135
01:14:03,400 --> 01:14:07,240
Speaker 2: thanks to The Daily Telegraph editor Ben English and Dear Rochelle.

1136
01:14:07,240 --> 01:14:10,280
Speaker 2: Would not be possible without the help and I'm wavering

1137
01:14:10,320 --> 01:14:14,320
Speaker 2: support of Christian Ann Childs, Mindy Wicks, Damien Loon and

1138
01:14:14,400 --> 01:14:18,559
Speaker 2: Rochelle's friends. This podcast series is hosted and investigated by

1139
01:14:18,640 --> 01:14:20,160
Speaker 2: me Ashley Hanson