1 00:00:00,280 --> 00:00:03,920 Speaker 1: This podcast is recorded on gadigal Land, Always Was, Always 2 00:00:03,920 --> 00:00:05,240 Speaker 1: Will be Aboriginal Land. 3 00:00:12,600 --> 00:00:16,000 Speaker 2: Today's episode with Lucinda Price discusses her book All I 4 00:00:16,120 --> 00:00:20,280 Speaker 2: Ever Wanted Was to Be Hot and topics including disordered eating, 5 00:00:20,520 --> 00:00:24,360 Speaker 2: body image, and mental health. If this episode may be 6 00:00:24,520 --> 00:00:28,160 Speaker 2: potentially distressing to you, please skip this one and take 7 00:00:28,200 --> 00:00:32,400 Speaker 2: care of yourself. If you're struggling, please reach out for help. 8 00:00:32,920 --> 00:00:35,919 Speaker 2: We've popped some free resources to access in the description 9 00:00:36,080 --> 00:00:39,599 Speaker 2: of today's episode, We love you chicks and let's get 10 00:00:39,600 --> 00:00:48,839 Speaker 2: into it. Hey cheeks, I'm Sal and I'm ow and 11 00:00:48,880 --> 00:00:50,680 Speaker 2: this is two broke chicks to show that shares life 12 00:00:50,760 --> 00:00:53,920 Speaker 2: lessons and tips to help make you a rich in life. 13 00:00:54,000 --> 00:00:58,360 Speaker 2: And today we are joined by writer, comedian ceo and 14 00:00:58,440 --> 00:01:02,720 Speaker 2: now author of a published book, Loose Enter Price, I 15 00:01:02,880 --> 00:01:03,920 Speaker 2: gay for room. 16 00:01:04,800 --> 00:01:06,560 Speaker 3: Hello Sal, Hello, I'll hap us. 17 00:01:07,000 --> 00:01:09,880 Speaker 2: Welcome to the show. We're going to be chatting all 18 00:01:10,040 --> 00:01:12,959 Speaker 2: about your brand new book, All They Ever Wanted Was 19 00:01:13,000 --> 00:01:15,760 Speaker 2: to Be Hot, which drops this week at the time 20 00:01:15,760 --> 00:01:18,720 Speaker 2: of recording, and we are so excited. We both read it, 21 00:01:19,040 --> 00:01:21,640 Speaker 2: we both love it. But before we get into it, 22 00:01:21,680 --> 00:01:23,880 Speaker 2: we like to start with a life lesson of the week. 23 00:01:24,120 --> 00:01:26,319 Speaker 2: I'll kick us off. My life lesson of the week 24 00:01:26,360 --> 00:01:28,960 Speaker 2: isn't really a life lesson, It's just something that I 25 00:01:29,080 --> 00:01:32,520 Speaker 2: like noticed over the weekend. But I've also been noticing 26 00:01:32,560 --> 00:01:35,479 Speaker 2: on TikTok, especially over the last few weeks. So at 27 00:01:35,480 --> 00:01:38,080 Speaker 2: the time of recording, it was Father's Day on the weekend, 28 00:01:39,120 --> 00:01:43,240 Speaker 2: and a lot of people are posting like hot photos 29 00:01:43,440 --> 00:01:45,959 Speaker 2: of their dads, like their dads when they were young, 30 00:01:46,120 --> 00:01:48,600 Speaker 2: like in the nineties. And then there was also that 31 00:01:48,720 --> 00:01:51,800 Speaker 2: trend on TikTok of people being like my dad used 32 00:01:51,840 --> 00:01:54,240 Speaker 2: to say he was a heartbreaker, and then they show 33 00:01:54,400 --> 00:01:56,480 Speaker 2: like a montage of all of these hot photos of 34 00:01:56,520 --> 00:01:59,240 Speaker 2: their dads, And I just wanted to open up the conversation, 35 00:01:59,400 --> 00:02:01,160 Speaker 2: how do we feel feel about it? Because I have 36 00:02:01,280 --> 00:02:04,560 Speaker 2: conflicted feelings about the hot dad movement. 37 00:02:05,000 --> 00:02:07,720 Speaker 3: Well, I always found it weird, Like you go, I 38 00:02:07,760 --> 00:02:10,840 Speaker 3: posted on my on my Instagram, people always post for 39 00:02:10,960 --> 00:02:12,680 Speaker 3: as their parents when they're hot, like he's a foot 40 00:02:12,680 --> 00:02:14,320 Speaker 3: of my parents when they were like not looking hot, 41 00:02:14,320 --> 00:02:16,320 Speaker 3: like mom's like smoking a darry and like like this, 42 00:02:16,680 --> 00:02:18,400 Speaker 3: and then Dad's got a condom on his head. I'm like, 43 00:02:18,480 --> 00:02:21,800 Speaker 3: let's not wise showing your parents when they look not 44 00:02:21,840 --> 00:02:23,120 Speaker 3: the hottest of a look. You know what I mean, 45 00:02:23,160 --> 00:02:25,120 Speaker 3: because I do find it. There's some weird like I 46 00:02:25,160 --> 00:02:27,560 Speaker 3: don't know if it's Freudian thing going on there, but 47 00:02:27,639 --> 00:02:29,240 Speaker 3: it's like, we saw what you're doing. 48 00:02:29,600 --> 00:02:32,360 Speaker 2: I'm neither four Again, it's difficult terrain for you to navigate. 49 00:02:32,400 --> 00:02:35,960 Speaker 2: I don't know what lesson I drew from that, but 50 00:02:36,040 --> 00:02:37,000 Speaker 2: I had feelings about it. 51 00:02:37,000 --> 00:02:39,079 Speaker 3: Clearly, I don't know it's a safe space. 52 00:02:39,639 --> 00:02:42,239 Speaker 4: I'm so torn. I'm like, I canna unpack this in therapy. 53 00:02:42,440 --> 00:02:45,640 Speaker 1: Yes, exactly, Like if you find your parents hot, is 54 00:02:45,680 --> 00:02:46,160 Speaker 1: that weird? 55 00:02:47,040 --> 00:02:51,160 Speaker 2: She's like, uh clear my three class. 56 00:02:52,919 --> 00:02:57,560 Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, anyways of the week is I'm not 57 00:02:57,600 --> 00:02:59,919 Speaker 1: going to send anyone into a downward spiral of con 58 00:03:00,040 --> 00:03:00,800 Speaker 1: and blaming life. 59 00:03:01,360 --> 00:03:03,320 Speaker 4: So no, I like it's good. 60 00:03:03,360 --> 00:03:04,120 Speaker 2: I do give it up. 61 00:03:05,000 --> 00:03:07,679 Speaker 1: But I haven't infected wisdom tooth and it's a lot 62 00:03:07,680 --> 00:03:08,560 Speaker 1: for me to go through. 63 00:03:08,639 --> 00:03:09,920 Speaker 2: It's been very upsetting. 64 00:03:10,560 --> 00:03:12,360 Speaker 4: I am also the biggest hypochondriac. 65 00:03:12,440 --> 00:03:16,120 Speaker 1: But the whole weekend friends were going out or like 66 00:03:16,240 --> 00:03:21,200 Speaker 1: messaging me, and I like couldn't go. But the whole 67 00:03:21,240 --> 00:03:24,880 Speaker 1: weekend I think I had like three friends message and 68 00:03:25,000 --> 00:03:27,840 Speaker 1: check in and say how are you feeling? Let me 69 00:03:27,880 --> 00:03:29,600 Speaker 1: know if you need anything. And then when they all 70 00:03:29,600 --> 00:03:31,760 Speaker 1: went out, they sent me messages and they were like 71 00:03:32,240 --> 00:03:34,040 Speaker 1: like hyppoo gee, I hope you're feeling better. 72 00:03:34,160 --> 00:03:34,720 Speaker 3: We miss you. 73 00:03:35,520 --> 00:03:38,040 Speaker 1: And it just made me really think about how like 74 00:03:38,160 --> 00:03:40,640 Speaker 1: those are just the friends that you should have, Like 75 00:03:41,080 --> 00:03:43,000 Speaker 1: if you know you don't want to go to something, 76 00:03:43,120 --> 00:03:45,080 Speaker 1: or you can't go to something, or you're not feeling well, 77 00:03:45,080 --> 00:03:45,800 Speaker 1: the friends. 78 00:03:45,480 --> 00:03:48,520 Speaker 4: That check in and they make you feel like miss that. 79 00:03:48,640 --> 00:03:50,800 Speaker 1: Like I think you need to find friends like that. 80 00:03:50,800 --> 00:03:53,160 Speaker 1: That is like the top tier standard of Like I 81 00:03:53,200 --> 00:03:55,360 Speaker 1: don't expect friends to check in every weekend and be 82 00:03:55,480 --> 00:03:57,280 Speaker 1: like babying me. And I don't think that's like a 83 00:03:57,280 --> 00:03:59,720 Speaker 1: standard to set because you know, everyone has their own 84 00:03:59,760 --> 00:04:02,360 Speaker 1: lives and it's really busy. But I just think like 85 00:04:02,640 --> 00:04:05,040 Speaker 1: that was a moment that I was like, oh, I 86 00:04:05,120 --> 00:04:05,920 Speaker 1: love my friends. 87 00:04:06,080 --> 00:04:08,360 Speaker 2: Yeah that's nice. I think either like try and find 88 00:04:08,800 --> 00:04:10,720 Speaker 2: friends like that, or it's a nice reminder to like 89 00:04:10,800 --> 00:04:11,440 Speaker 2: do that for you. 90 00:04:11,560 --> 00:04:13,320 Speaker 4: Yeah, that's that's the other thing that I was going 91 00:04:13,400 --> 00:04:14,800 Speaker 4: to say, to do that more. 92 00:04:15,000 --> 00:04:20,480 Speaker 3: Yeah, it was getting earnest on the part about it's 93 00:04:20,560 --> 00:04:23,880 Speaker 3: kind of like related to the Instagram dad thing. Do 94 00:04:23,880 --> 00:04:26,920 Speaker 3: you guys know that meme? Which is like they don't 95 00:04:27,000 --> 00:04:28,800 Speaker 3: they know you're pretty, they just don't want you. You 96 00:04:28,800 --> 00:04:31,200 Speaker 3: guys seen that? Okay, So you know when you like 97 00:04:31,240 --> 00:04:33,599 Speaker 3: someone and you start posting thirsty stuff on your story 98 00:04:33,640 --> 00:04:37,760 Speaker 3: to get their attention. Yeah, it's like they know you're pretty, 99 00:04:38,120 --> 00:04:42,920 Speaker 3: they just don't want you. Like we need to hear that. 100 00:04:42,920 --> 00:04:44,279 Speaker 4: That hurt my feeling. 101 00:04:44,480 --> 00:04:46,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's actually such a good reminder though. 102 00:04:46,920 --> 00:04:48,839 Speaker 3: It's like nobody, like, you don't have to be posting 103 00:04:48,880 --> 00:04:50,960 Speaker 3: the thirsty things. They know what you look like. Yeah, 104 00:04:51,040 --> 00:04:52,640 Speaker 3: they just don't want you, and that's fine. 105 00:04:53,080 --> 00:04:53,880 Speaker 4: That is free. 106 00:04:54,520 --> 00:04:57,240 Speaker 5: Yeah, I do, like it's at first it's a bit 107 00:04:57,320 --> 00:04:59,359 Speaker 5: like AWI, but I'm like, do you know it hurts 108 00:04:59,400 --> 00:05:01,760 Speaker 5: more than like that little gut punch we just got 109 00:05:01,760 --> 00:05:05,960 Speaker 5: hearing that is like searching through your story, like looking 110 00:05:06,279 --> 00:05:09,120 Speaker 5: for the person and seeing that they either haven't seen 111 00:05:09,160 --> 00:05:11,320 Speaker 5: it because you're clearly not even popping. 112 00:05:11,040 --> 00:05:18,520 Speaker 2: Up in a high priority splot, they've seen it and 113 00:05:18,560 --> 00:05:20,719 Speaker 2: they just haven't even reacted to it. Like that hurts 114 00:05:20,760 --> 00:05:23,920 Speaker 2: more so like posts the thirsty or like sexy selfie 115 00:05:23,960 --> 00:05:25,000 Speaker 2: but for yourself? 116 00:05:25,240 --> 00:05:27,120 Speaker 3: Yeah, or do you know who are. 117 00:05:27,000 --> 00:05:30,000 Speaker 2: The real like MVPs when it comes to that your girlfriends, 118 00:05:30,200 --> 00:05:32,440 Speaker 2: like they're the ones who. 119 00:05:32,120 --> 00:05:33,560 Speaker 4: Helped you pick which photo. 120 00:05:33,839 --> 00:05:37,600 Speaker 3: Yeah, and I will react to it. Yeah, I love it. 121 00:05:37,680 --> 00:05:40,360 Speaker 2: Close it for yourself and for them. I love that. Okay, 122 00:05:40,400 --> 00:05:47,560 Speaker 2: shall we get into the EP. Yeah, let's go. It's 123 00:05:47,560 --> 00:05:50,640 Speaker 2: a very exciting week because your debut book, All I 124 00:05:50,680 --> 00:05:52,719 Speaker 2: Ever Wanted Was to Be Hot, dropped on at the 125 00:05:52,960 --> 00:05:56,360 Speaker 2: third of September. And for the chicks who haven't come 126 00:05:56,400 --> 00:05:58,520 Speaker 2: across it yet, can you give us a little rundown 127 00:05:58,640 --> 00:05:59,680 Speaker 2: of what we can expect? 128 00:06:01,040 --> 00:06:03,200 Speaker 3: So All I Ever Wanted Was to Be Hot is 129 00:06:04,080 --> 00:06:08,920 Speaker 3: part personal experience, part I guess investigation of the early 130 00:06:08,920 --> 00:06:11,080 Speaker 3: two thousands and the time that we grew up in. 131 00:06:11,560 --> 00:06:13,960 Speaker 3: And I use my personal experience as like the launching 132 00:06:14,000 --> 00:06:16,240 Speaker 3: pad to then put context around it. So it's kind 133 00:06:16,240 --> 00:06:17,799 Speaker 3: of like the seed of it. And then we've built 134 00:06:17,800 --> 00:06:21,680 Speaker 3: context around it through looking at Victoria's Secret Angels, the 135 00:06:21,800 --> 00:06:24,960 Speaker 3: Playboy Bunnies, things we were taught in school. I look 136 00:06:25,000 --> 00:06:26,960 Speaker 3: a lot into nostalgia and the shows that we grew 137 00:06:27,000 --> 00:06:28,920 Speaker 3: up watching, and which was really fun to do it 138 00:06:28,920 --> 00:06:31,600 Speaker 3: because I was like, oh, I love these things as 139 00:06:31,600 --> 00:06:33,800 Speaker 3: a kid. Oh, now let's look at it from this lens. Oh, 140 00:06:33,839 --> 00:06:36,600 Speaker 3: that's interesting. Because I can see how I It's like, 141 00:06:36,600 --> 00:06:38,560 Speaker 3: this is kind of off topic, but sometimes I go back 142 00:06:38,560 --> 00:06:41,240 Speaker 3: and watch Austin Powers and I'm like, oh my god, 143 00:06:41,279 --> 00:06:45,200 Speaker 3: I've jacked my whole like style, style of comedy. Things 144 00:06:45,240 --> 00:06:47,120 Speaker 3: I find funny things I say, all from this show, 145 00:06:47,200 --> 00:06:49,320 Speaker 3: Like that really imprints on you the things that you 146 00:06:49,360 --> 00:06:50,200 Speaker 3: watch early on. 147 00:06:50,279 --> 00:06:52,279 Speaker 2: Yeah, like that's my whole personality and that's us with 148 00:06:52,320 --> 00:06:53,240 Speaker 2: the granch. 149 00:06:53,279 --> 00:06:56,040 Speaker 3: Yeah really, oh the chicks all that. 150 00:06:56,200 --> 00:06:59,080 Speaker 4: Yeah, it's true, we are here, see what I mean? 151 00:06:59,200 --> 00:07:01,680 Speaker 2: What was the process like writing it for you then? 152 00:07:01,760 --> 00:07:05,680 Speaker 2: Because you do have a journalism background and that shows 153 00:07:05,760 --> 00:07:08,640 Speaker 2: by you know, how beautiful you write, but also the 154 00:07:08,720 --> 00:07:11,600 Speaker 2: level of research and investigation and the interviews that you do. 155 00:07:12,240 --> 00:07:15,080 Speaker 2: But what was it like, I suppose reliving some of 156 00:07:15,120 --> 00:07:19,320 Speaker 2: those more vulnerable moments and dissecting those as well. 157 00:07:19,600 --> 00:07:21,680 Speaker 3: Well, I read you guys book and I felt the 158 00:07:21,720 --> 00:07:23,400 Speaker 3: same about the journalists thing. I'm like, oh, okay, you 159 00:07:23,400 --> 00:07:25,080 Speaker 3: can really tell, like it is funny how you can't tell. 160 00:07:25,120 --> 00:07:34,440 Speaker 3: I guess when you've done Commas degree debt. Yeah see, 161 00:07:34,480 --> 00:07:36,080 Speaker 3: I loved your book as well. Thank you. It's like 162 00:07:36,080 --> 00:07:40,840 Speaker 3: a warm hug thank you. The process, well, like anything 163 00:07:40,880 --> 00:07:43,880 Speaker 3: that felt nothing was really like too rough for me. 164 00:07:43,960 --> 00:07:45,800 Speaker 3: I don't think it was just more exciting because I'd 165 00:07:45,800 --> 00:07:47,880 Speaker 3: already gone through I talk about having an eating disorder 166 00:07:47,920 --> 00:07:50,440 Speaker 3: in the book, and to have gone through that, I'd 167 00:07:50,440 --> 00:07:53,560 Speaker 3: already done kind of like a lot of the facing 168 00:07:53,600 --> 00:07:55,240 Speaker 3: the hard parts of it because a lot of it 169 00:07:55,280 --> 00:07:59,280 Speaker 3: is reflecting and then having to rejig the way you 170 00:07:59,280 --> 00:08:01,520 Speaker 3: look at things are kind of done that whole process. 171 00:08:02,040 --> 00:08:04,800 Speaker 3: So looking back, it wasn't that difficult. I guess there's 172 00:08:04,840 --> 00:08:06,240 Speaker 3: like other things that I wrote about in the books 173 00:08:06,280 --> 00:08:08,600 Speaker 3: that were a bit more difficult because I'd never put 174 00:08:08,640 --> 00:08:11,400 Speaker 3: them into words, Like there's things that surprise you. You're like, oh, 175 00:08:11,440 --> 00:08:13,600 Speaker 3: I didn't think I would feel like a certain way 176 00:08:13,600 --> 00:08:16,000 Speaker 3: about that, but I feel I feel a certain way 177 00:08:16,000 --> 00:08:17,880 Speaker 3: about that. And then it's funny having people like doing 178 00:08:17,880 --> 00:08:20,120 Speaker 3: interviews or speaking to people about the book. The things 179 00:08:20,120 --> 00:08:21,960 Speaker 3: that they pick out as what would have been hard 180 00:08:22,360 --> 00:08:24,440 Speaker 3: isn't hard, But the things that they just think was normal. 181 00:08:24,480 --> 00:08:26,400 Speaker 3: I was like, oh, Colin, you're not asking about that 182 00:08:26,440 --> 00:08:28,760 Speaker 3: thing that felt really vulnerable and that I didn't want 183 00:08:28,760 --> 00:08:29,960 Speaker 3: to keep in there, but I kept in there. 184 00:08:30,160 --> 00:08:30,360 Speaker 2: Yeah. 185 00:08:30,480 --> 00:08:33,719 Speaker 1: I think it's interesting because even reading it, it is 186 00:08:33,760 --> 00:08:36,480 Speaker 1: like a self reflective book to read, Like when you're 187 00:08:36,520 --> 00:08:39,319 Speaker 1: reading it as yourself, it's you can you know, feel 188 00:08:39,880 --> 00:08:42,319 Speaker 1: you you can feel like as if you were literally 189 00:08:42,360 --> 00:08:45,000 Speaker 1: a person inside this book talking to me as the reader, 190 00:08:45,320 --> 00:08:48,160 Speaker 1: which is amazing because it feels like such a safe place, 191 00:08:48,679 --> 00:08:50,800 Speaker 1: but it's also exactly what you're saying that when you're 192 00:08:50,840 --> 00:08:53,640 Speaker 1: reading it, you can you can feel yourself thinking about 193 00:08:53,880 --> 00:08:56,160 Speaker 1: how it applies to yourself and the things that. 194 00:08:56,120 --> 00:08:56,640 Speaker 2: You've been through. 195 00:08:56,679 --> 00:08:58,680 Speaker 1: One of my favorite things was that the title wasn't 196 00:08:58,720 --> 00:08:59,920 Speaker 1: actually going to be the title. 197 00:09:00,320 --> 00:09:02,680 Speaker 3: No, not at all. It's yeah, it was gonna be 198 00:09:02,679 --> 00:09:04,600 Speaker 3: perfect candidate, which I'm just like, I don't even know 199 00:09:04,600 --> 00:09:09,280 Speaker 3: how to say candidate properly far out like, thank Heaven's 200 00:09:09,320 --> 00:09:11,280 Speaker 3: I dodged that bullet because it would be completely different, 201 00:09:12,520 --> 00:09:14,640 Speaker 3: Like I'm always also thinking about the kind of press 202 00:09:14,640 --> 00:09:16,480 Speaker 3: that I'm doing for it would be completely different at 203 00:09:16,559 --> 00:09:18,079 Speaker 3: least with the title. Now you kind of know what 204 00:09:18,120 --> 00:09:22,679 Speaker 3: you're getting. Yeah. I came up with that title because 205 00:09:23,120 --> 00:09:25,320 Speaker 3: when I was probably like halfway through writing the book, 206 00:09:25,760 --> 00:09:27,800 Speaker 3: I was like, Fuck, there's this thing that I keep 207 00:09:27,840 --> 00:09:29,960 Speaker 3: coming back to, which is actually all I ever wanted 208 00:09:30,040 --> 00:09:31,720 Speaker 3: was to be hot, and I've thought that for a 209 00:09:31,760 --> 00:09:34,160 Speaker 3: long time, and it wasn't until kind of like this 210 00:09:34,280 --> 00:09:36,880 Speaker 3: age that I thought maybe that is weird or it's 211 00:09:36,880 --> 00:09:40,240 Speaker 3: something that it always felt like, Oh, that sounds really 212 00:09:40,280 --> 00:09:42,839 Speaker 3: like depraved and vain and like kind of fucked up. 213 00:09:43,160 --> 00:09:46,320 Speaker 3: But then I'm like, wait, everything that we do is 214 00:09:46,440 --> 00:09:48,880 Speaker 3: kind of about that, Like why are we on Instagram guys? 215 00:09:49,000 --> 00:09:50,920 Speaker 3: Because we want to be fucking hot? Like, yeah, I 216 00:09:50,960 --> 00:09:52,959 Speaker 3: don't know. I just found it. It was free and 217 00:09:53,040 --> 00:09:55,240 Speaker 3: doing that title because I think, on the one hand, 218 00:09:55,280 --> 00:09:57,000 Speaker 3: I instantly feel worried that people are going to think 219 00:09:57,040 --> 00:10:00,560 Speaker 3: I'm really vain, but then it's kind of like the 220 00:10:00,640 --> 00:10:03,160 Speaker 3: unspoken thing that a lot of people feel that way, 221 00:10:03,200 --> 00:10:05,959 Speaker 3: and just the statistics show that I'm not alone. So 222 00:10:06,160 --> 00:10:07,439 Speaker 3: I put my hand up and say all over I 223 00:10:07,480 --> 00:10:09,720 Speaker 3: wanted was to be hot. Yeah, for sure. 224 00:10:10,200 --> 00:10:13,480 Speaker 2: And I think the first chapter really talks about that 225 00:10:13,520 --> 00:10:17,160 Speaker 2: and like one of your earliest experiences learning that hotness 226 00:10:17,280 --> 00:10:22,800 Speaker 2: is a source of power, especially for women, And then 227 00:10:23,120 --> 00:10:26,400 Speaker 2: the end of the book you tie that in again 228 00:10:26,640 --> 00:10:30,360 Speaker 2: and I guess your relationship with that concept now, So 229 00:10:30,840 --> 00:10:34,520 Speaker 2: what is your relationship with that power dynamic and what 230 00:10:34,559 --> 00:10:36,840 Speaker 2: are some sources of power that you pull from now 231 00:10:36,920 --> 00:10:38,560 Speaker 2: instead of being hot. 232 00:10:38,640 --> 00:10:39,920 Speaker 3: I guess the way that I look at it when 233 00:10:39,960 --> 00:10:42,360 Speaker 3: I was younger, is it I definitely felt like I 234 00:10:42,360 --> 00:10:44,600 Speaker 3: didn't have access to the spaces that I've always wanted. 235 00:10:44,920 --> 00:10:47,280 Speaker 3: Now I do, like I always wanted to do this job. 236 00:10:47,320 --> 00:10:49,360 Speaker 3: I alway knew exactly what I want to do. I 237 00:10:49,440 --> 00:10:51,280 Speaker 3: always wanted to write a book. I just wanted to 238 00:10:51,280 --> 00:10:52,520 Speaker 3: be a presenter when I was a little girl, like 239 00:10:52,520 --> 00:10:53,480 Speaker 3: I wanted to be row live. 240 00:10:54,600 --> 00:10:59,920 Speaker 2: Yes, I can see you hosting what. 241 00:10:58,520 --> 00:11:00,960 Speaker 3: I would like feel jealous of of, Like fuck, I 242 00:11:01,240 --> 00:11:04,080 Speaker 3: so want to do your job, like anyway love rope. 243 00:11:04,520 --> 00:11:07,760 Speaker 3: He's another blueprint. So I think when I was younger, 244 00:11:07,880 --> 00:11:11,120 Speaker 3: like any kind of like attractiveness that I had that 245 00:11:11,240 --> 00:11:13,599 Speaker 3: was my calling card, like going to clubs young and 246 00:11:13,760 --> 00:11:16,679 Speaker 3: like talking to guys, feeling like I could have access 247 00:11:16,720 --> 00:11:19,200 Speaker 3: to spaces through men like I think that's and I 248 00:11:19,200 --> 00:11:21,439 Speaker 3: think so I would definitely like play to a very 249 00:11:21,440 --> 00:11:24,200 Speaker 3: stereotypical male gaze as a young girl, which I think 250 00:11:24,280 --> 00:11:26,400 Speaker 3: like a lot of us do. I find it funny 251 00:11:26,400 --> 00:11:29,040 Speaker 3: now whenever I go to this shopping center and I 252 00:11:29,080 --> 00:11:31,560 Speaker 3: see little late teeny bopper thirteen year old girls and 253 00:11:31,600 --> 00:11:33,439 Speaker 3: they still wear the same things that we wore, which 254 00:11:33,480 --> 00:11:35,840 Speaker 3: is like the roll down track. He's a little crop top. Yeah, 255 00:11:35,880 --> 00:11:38,400 Speaker 3: there's like a uniform that you initiates you into being 256 00:11:38,400 --> 00:11:41,000 Speaker 3: like a little girl, a little woman girl. But yeah, 257 00:11:41,000 --> 00:11:44,000 Speaker 3: for many years it was kind of like the I say, 258 00:11:44,040 --> 00:11:46,840 Speaker 3: it's like what I thought a thirteen year old boy 259 00:11:47,440 --> 00:11:49,600 Speaker 3: would think is a gorgeous woman. Is what I always 260 00:11:49,679 --> 00:11:51,960 Speaker 3: tried to be, which was quite restrictive at change the 261 00:11:51,960 --> 00:11:57,920 Speaker 3: way that I would like behave, eat, exercise, do certain 262 00:11:58,040 --> 00:12:01,160 Speaker 3: like procedures, even all the way down to like like 263 00:12:01,320 --> 00:12:03,840 Speaker 3: laser hair removal. You know, I look back now and 264 00:12:03,840 --> 00:12:06,200 Speaker 3: I think, oh, did I need to laser every single 265 00:12:06,200 --> 00:12:09,480 Speaker 3: hair of my body? Not sure, but we've done it 266 00:12:09,480 --> 00:12:11,880 Speaker 3: now and there's no turning back. So I guess I 267 00:12:11,920 --> 00:12:16,560 Speaker 3: had this very like homogeneous, homogenized, like one set beauty standard, 268 00:12:17,040 --> 00:12:18,560 Speaker 3: and if I didn't look good or if I didn't 269 00:12:18,559 --> 00:12:22,360 Speaker 3: feel good, I wasn't sure where I'd get my power from. 270 00:12:22,400 --> 00:12:24,439 Speaker 3: Whereas now I think, because I have a lot of 271 00:12:24,520 --> 00:12:27,640 Speaker 3: agency with work and agency with my friends, I feel 272 00:12:27,640 --> 00:12:29,920 Speaker 3: like I've got heaps of friends and the happy job, 273 00:12:30,440 --> 00:12:35,480 Speaker 3: my happy home life in my apartment, that's less necessary. 274 00:12:35,520 --> 00:12:38,360 Speaker 3: I still like to feel like I look good, like 275 00:12:38,360 --> 00:12:40,760 Speaker 3: I've put a full beat on today, I've got my 276 00:12:40,840 --> 00:12:43,920 Speaker 3: little tiny tank top on, and like I still like 277 00:12:44,040 --> 00:12:46,520 Speaker 3: feeling good and looking good in a very particular way. 278 00:12:46,600 --> 00:12:48,319 Speaker 3: But it's not everything. 279 00:12:48,920 --> 00:12:51,120 Speaker 1: So makes sense that, yeah, the self worth doesn't come 280 00:12:51,160 --> 00:12:54,240 Speaker 1: from that, not how we look it comes from. And 281 00:12:54,280 --> 00:12:56,800 Speaker 1: that's like that quote, that's like, you know, when you die, 282 00:12:57,000 --> 00:13:00,000 Speaker 1: people won't say, oh, you know, she had a flat 283 00:13:00,080 --> 00:13:02,920 Speaker 1: tummy or her hair was really pretty, So they'll say 284 00:13:03,080 --> 00:13:05,760 Speaker 1: she had a great laugh, or she was always there 285 00:13:05,760 --> 00:13:08,120 Speaker 1: when you needed her. And it's like that that reminder 286 00:13:08,160 --> 00:13:10,640 Speaker 1: and that's where your power comes from, which it's really 287 00:13:10,679 --> 00:13:13,000 Speaker 1: really hard to pull away from, especially for the fact 288 00:13:13,000 --> 00:13:15,920 Speaker 1: that you know, we live in society and you do 289 00:13:15,960 --> 00:13:19,200 Speaker 1: explore this in the book as well about how if 290 00:13:19,360 --> 00:13:23,000 Speaker 1: you know the pretty privilege right, and you know, we 291 00:13:23,320 --> 00:13:25,320 Speaker 1: then set up in a way that it's like, Okay, 292 00:13:25,360 --> 00:13:28,280 Speaker 1: well I'm not pretty, so I'll do something about it, 293 00:13:28,280 --> 00:13:31,160 Speaker 1: whether it's you know, a procedure or dyeing your hair 294 00:13:31,360 --> 00:13:35,760 Speaker 1: or dressing a certain way. But then it's a secret 295 00:13:35,960 --> 00:13:38,800 Speaker 1: because you're shamed for it. So like, what is that 296 00:13:38,880 --> 00:13:41,600 Speaker 1: balance of and how do you feel about that balance. 297 00:13:41,280 --> 00:13:44,520 Speaker 4: Of like Okay, well, you know, I will do. 298 00:13:44,400 --> 00:13:46,680 Speaker 1: This so that I'm pretty, but then I can't tell 299 00:13:46,679 --> 00:13:48,520 Speaker 1: anyone because I'm shamed for it, and it's like a 300 00:13:48,559 --> 00:13:50,000 Speaker 1: lose lose battle. 301 00:13:50,760 --> 00:13:54,760 Speaker 3: Exhaustingly, Yeah, you feel like a fraud, I think, yeah, yeah, 302 00:13:55,040 --> 00:13:57,400 Speaker 3: that's that was probably what I found hardest to write 303 00:13:57,400 --> 00:13:59,360 Speaker 3: about in the book is anything to do with plastic surgery, 304 00:14:00,040 --> 00:14:01,920 Speaker 3: because I felt that shame and I felt like I 305 00:14:01,920 --> 00:14:03,559 Speaker 3: didn't want anyone to know what I looked like before, 306 00:14:03,600 --> 00:14:06,960 Speaker 3: like from the age of eleven onwards. I couldn't like 307 00:14:06,960 --> 00:14:09,720 Speaker 3: share any baby photos, but like on Instagram and stuff, 308 00:14:09,720 --> 00:14:11,280 Speaker 3: I put a photo of me when I'm five because 309 00:14:11,559 --> 00:14:15,640 Speaker 3: the little nose is like yeah, but so yeah, there's 310 00:14:15,640 --> 00:14:17,240 Speaker 3: a lot of kind of like and I still get emotion, 311 00:14:17,400 --> 00:14:19,720 Speaker 3: like not emotional, but I still get a bit affected 312 00:14:19,760 --> 00:14:21,520 Speaker 3: now and people say, oh, can I see a nose before? 313 00:14:22,520 --> 00:14:24,600 Speaker 3: I'm like, well, I'm still that girl inside, so I 314 00:14:24,640 --> 00:14:26,280 Speaker 3: don't want you to see it and say, oh, yeah, fuck, 315 00:14:26,320 --> 00:14:28,760 Speaker 3: that was pretty bad or you know, or it wasn't 316 00:14:28,760 --> 00:14:31,720 Speaker 3: even bad. It's not really like your decision to tell 317 00:14:31,760 --> 00:14:32,000 Speaker 3: me that. 318 00:14:33,000 --> 00:14:35,680 Speaker 2: There's just nothing productive that comes from that, really. 319 00:14:35,480 --> 00:14:38,800 Speaker 3: Exactly exactly, and get I get the curiosity people always 320 00:14:38,840 --> 00:14:41,320 Speaker 3: love it before and after. There's a whole industry built 321 00:14:41,360 --> 00:14:44,920 Speaker 3: on it. But yeah, that still affects me. So I 322 00:14:44,920 --> 00:14:47,400 Speaker 3: think to your point, like there's a little bit inside 323 00:14:47,400 --> 00:14:49,720 Speaker 3: you that feels I still feel ashamed of it, and 324 00:14:49,800 --> 00:14:54,080 Speaker 3: I still feel shamed that like I am naturally don't 325 00:14:54,080 --> 00:14:55,720 Speaker 3: look the way that I look now, hmm. 326 00:14:56,440 --> 00:14:59,000 Speaker 1: But like that's the thing that I hate as well. 327 00:14:59,240 --> 00:15:03,800 Speaker 1: But it's also very very normal and very relatable because 328 00:15:03,800 --> 00:15:07,160 Speaker 1: it's like it's like you are you know, you've got 329 00:15:07,160 --> 00:15:09,280 Speaker 1: this power and you've got this pretty privilege if you're hot, 330 00:15:09,920 --> 00:15:12,520 Speaker 1: but you're not supposed to want to be hot. Yeah, fully, 331 00:15:12,640 --> 00:15:14,960 Speaker 1: you're not supposed to allow like you don't want to 332 00:15:15,000 --> 00:15:16,800 Speaker 1: be hot, you just have to be hot, But if 333 00:15:16,840 --> 00:15:18,840 Speaker 1: you do anything about it, then that's cheating and it 334 00:15:18,840 --> 00:15:19,480 Speaker 1: doesn't count. 335 00:15:19,600 --> 00:15:22,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, but it is like it's a fine line, and 336 00:15:22,560 --> 00:15:26,400 Speaker 2: I guess like reconciling with that and like the shame 337 00:15:26,480 --> 00:15:29,240 Speaker 2: and whatnot that we feel around it, it's just like 338 00:15:29,320 --> 00:15:30,880 Speaker 2: I don't know what the answer is, and I don't 339 00:15:30,880 --> 00:15:32,560 Speaker 2: think any of us have the answer, But I think 340 00:15:32,600 --> 00:15:36,480 Speaker 2: even just talking about it is hopefully helpful for people 341 00:15:36,560 --> 00:15:39,880 Speaker 2: out there to like, you know, feel less shame around 342 00:15:39,880 --> 00:15:41,640 Speaker 2: it and know that it's like a really normal thing 343 00:15:41,680 --> 00:15:45,360 Speaker 2: to feel conflicted about these things. And throughout the book, 344 00:15:45,480 --> 00:15:48,880 Speaker 2: as you mentioned, you do talk a lot about you know, 345 00:15:48,920 --> 00:15:52,480 Speaker 2: like societal pressures on how we look, but then also 346 00:15:52,560 --> 00:15:56,320 Speaker 2: like how the role of genetics can play into it, 347 00:15:56,440 --> 00:15:58,880 Speaker 2: or even you know, like nature verse nurture, like how 348 00:15:58,920 --> 00:16:01,040 Speaker 2: we're brought up like shout out to the arm and 349 00:16:01,120 --> 00:16:05,040 Speaker 2: mum chapter and all of that. But then you also 350 00:16:05,120 --> 00:16:08,360 Speaker 2: talk about how these things and our relationship with these 351 00:16:08,360 --> 00:16:14,320 Speaker 2: things can be changed or unlearned. So what is something 352 00:16:14,400 --> 00:16:17,200 Speaker 2: that people can do after listening to this episode or 353 00:16:17,280 --> 00:16:21,160 Speaker 2: after reading your book to unlearn even one of these things? 354 00:16:21,680 --> 00:16:23,680 Speaker 3: Yes, I love this is what I love about your podcast. 355 00:16:23,720 --> 00:16:25,120 Speaker 3: Hey takeaways? 356 00:16:25,360 --> 00:16:26,640 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, we need the hat. 357 00:16:28,320 --> 00:16:33,360 Speaker 3: The Instagram is popping definitely, even in the last year. 358 00:16:33,360 --> 00:16:35,240 Speaker 3: I've just seen the girls. The Girlies are on one. 359 00:16:35,960 --> 00:16:37,360 Speaker 2: That means a lot. 360 00:16:37,440 --> 00:16:39,520 Speaker 3: Every time you help my feet. Actually like I learned 361 00:16:39,520 --> 00:16:43,400 Speaker 3: something and I like it. Thank you. That's really new. 362 00:16:43,680 --> 00:16:49,800 Speaker 3: I'm proud to know you. Really impressive right back at you. 363 00:16:50,920 --> 00:16:52,880 Speaker 3: So my actionable takeaway would be, if I could be 364 00:16:52,920 --> 00:16:56,080 Speaker 3: so bold to suggest one, would be that what I 365 00:16:56,120 --> 00:16:57,880 Speaker 3: found when I was recovering from an eating disorder, and 366 00:16:57,920 --> 00:17:01,760 Speaker 3: my body was changing rapidly and I completely changed the 367 00:17:01,800 --> 00:17:05,879 Speaker 3: way that my body looked was following women with the 368 00:17:05,880 --> 00:17:08,120 Speaker 3: same body shape as me. That sounds like we've heard 369 00:17:08,119 --> 00:17:10,840 Speaker 3: it all before, We've heard like d like whatever the 370 00:17:10,880 --> 00:17:15,239 Speaker 3: figh your feed, but it fully makes a difference, like 371 00:17:15,320 --> 00:17:20,240 Speaker 3: having someone who was like wearing cool clothes and being confident. 372 00:17:20,600 --> 00:17:22,800 Speaker 3: And for me, you know, the people that I followed, 373 00:17:22,840 --> 00:17:25,240 Speaker 3: they still looked kind of like sexy, like they still 374 00:17:25,280 --> 00:17:28,240 Speaker 3: had sex appeal, which I needed to see. You know, 375 00:17:28,320 --> 00:17:30,760 Speaker 3: the book is about you shouldn't have to look a 376 00:17:30,800 --> 00:17:35,200 Speaker 3: certain way to like be I guess, like liberated and 377 00:17:35,280 --> 00:17:37,719 Speaker 3: make your decisions and date and do all this stuff. 378 00:17:38,080 --> 00:17:41,320 Speaker 3: But when you had when I placed so much emphasis 379 00:17:42,480 --> 00:17:44,320 Speaker 3: on myself looking a certain way and feeling like I 380 00:17:44,359 --> 00:17:46,640 Speaker 3: was only desirable a certain way, when I came out 381 00:17:46,640 --> 00:17:48,960 Speaker 3: of that seeing that you can still be desirable at 382 00:17:49,000 --> 00:17:51,560 Speaker 3: all different shapes and sizes, and it is about your 383 00:17:51,640 --> 00:17:54,160 Speaker 3: like funkiness, I say, me and my friend call it funkiness, 384 00:17:54,160 --> 00:17:58,000 Speaker 3: like it's about you like spunk and like, yeah, charisma, 385 00:17:58,280 --> 00:18:00,520 Speaker 3: it goes a long way. I will say, it's easier 386 00:18:00,760 --> 00:18:02,159 Speaker 3: and I look at this in the book, like it 387 00:18:02,240 --> 00:18:05,159 Speaker 3: is easier for men to not be conventionally attractive and 388 00:18:05,200 --> 00:18:07,920 Speaker 3: to still have that spunk. That's what where we expect. 389 00:18:07,960 --> 00:18:11,560 Speaker 2: Well, that's like the rat boy frog boy, like like 390 00:18:11,720 --> 00:18:14,720 Speaker 2: ugly hot is for men, it. 391 00:18:14,760 --> 00:18:19,080 Speaker 3: Must be nice, Yeah, it would be good. But diversifying 392 00:18:19,200 --> 00:18:23,439 Speaker 3: the people that you follow and finding people who the 393 00:18:23,480 --> 00:18:25,480 Speaker 3: other thing is like the mid sized influencers like that 394 00:18:25,640 --> 00:18:28,040 Speaker 3: or wasn't a thing when we were like teenage girls, 395 00:18:28,040 --> 00:18:29,760 Speaker 3: but now I look at it and I'm like, yeah, 396 00:18:29,800 --> 00:18:31,760 Speaker 3: like you actually can wear like a little miniskirt or 397 00:18:31,760 --> 00:18:32,160 Speaker 3: this or that. 398 00:18:32,320 --> 00:18:34,560 Speaker 2: I do think that that is a good It is 399 00:18:34,600 --> 00:18:37,640 Speaker 2: a good tip to follow people who look like you 400 00:18:37,840 --> 00:18:41,560 Speaker 2: or just don't look like the stereotypical standard of beauty 401 00:18:41,960 --> 00:18:45,760 Speaker 2: and seeing how they style things or and you know, 402 00:18:45,880 --> 00:18:49,239 Speaker 2: I also think they don't have to be like, you know, 403 00:18:49,280 --> 00:18:52,000 Speaker 2: waving a flag of like body positivity, or they don't 404 00:18:52,000 --> 00:18:54,080 Speaker 2: have to be an advocate, but they just exist. 405 00:18:54,280 --> 00:18:57,680 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's the most powerful bit when they just exist. Yeah. 406 00:18:57,720 --> 00:19:00,600 Speaker 1: One of the things that I always felt difficult to navigate, 407 00:19:00,640 --> 00:19:03,960 Speaker 1: and it wasn't necessarily something I was consciously realizing, was 408 00:19:04,000 --> 00:19:06,880 Speaker 1: when I was following brands and the brands didn't necessarily 409 00:19:07,720 --> 00:19:13,400 Speaker 1: ever repost or post with bodies that, you know, any 410 00:19:13,440 --> 00:19:16,359 Speaker 1: sort of body do, any sort of body diversity, or 411 00:19:16,520 --> 00:19:19,000 Speaker 1: like having a big bust. I was like, I'm and 412 00:19:19,000 --> 00:19:21,240 Speaker 1: the thing that would go on my head would be, oh, 413 00:19:21,240 --> 00:19:23,639 Speaker 1: I can never wear that, Like I can never wear that. 414 00:19:23,680 --> 00:19:24,399 Speaker 2: I can never wear that. 415 00:19:24,440 --> 00:19:27,800 Speaker 1: And I didn't realize how often that was happening until 416 00:19:27,920 --> 00:19:31,920 Speaker 1: I like made the realization and started like unfollowing because 417 00:19:31,960 --> 00:19:34,159 Speaker 1: I was like, all it's doing is acting as a 418 00:19:34,200 --> 00:19:35,520 Speaker 1: reminder of like what I'm not. 419 00:19:35,960 --> 00:19:37,600 Speaker 4: But it doesn't mean like you have to like you know, 420 00:19:37,680 --> 00:19:39,000 Speaker 4: Boycott never shopped. 421 00:19:38,680 --> 00:19:39,280 Speaker 3: There or whatever. 422 00:19:39,800 --> 00:19:43,320 Speaker 1: But if there's something that's coming up as a negative 423 00:19:43,359 --> 00:19:45,520 Speaker 1: part or something that's telling you you're less then or not, 424 00:19:45,600 --> 00:19:48,520 Speaker 1: something that's also something to like filter out. 425 00:19:49,400 --> 00:19:50,680 Speaker 3: One hundred Yeah. 426 00:19:51,680 --> 00:19:55,320 Speaker 1: Ye, So you spoke a lot about the Victorious Secret 427 00:19:55,440 --> 00:19:59,280 Speaker 1: Show and Victoria's Secret Models, which was a throw back. 428 00:19:59,400 --> 00:20:02,359 Speaker 4: I haven't thought about that in a long long time. 429 00:20:02,400 --> 00:20:04,359 Speaker 1: But it was also when we were growing up, Like 430 00:20:04,440 --> 00:20:06,520 Speaker 1: it was like a Christmas thing. 431 00:20:06,520 --> 00:20:08,880 Speaker 4: Yeah, right, Like you knew like summer. 432 00:20:08,720 --> 00:20:10,119 Speaker 1: Was coming and it was like Christmas time because the 433 00:20:10,160 --> 00:20:13,680 Speaker 1: Victoria's Secret Show was happening. Ye, the show was canceled 434 00:20:13,680 --> 00:20:16,720 Speaker 1: six years ago and this year it's coming back. 435 00:20:17,080 --> 00:20:17,960 Speaker 2: What do you think about that? 436 00:20:19,040 --> 00:20:22,040 Speaker 3: Obviously, Yeah, I'm not across the fact that it's coming back. Yeah, 437 00:20:22,240 --> 00:20:25,480 Speaker 3: I'm like, let fenty have its time, like fenty is 438 00:20:25,520 --> 00:20:28,080 Speaker 3: where it's at. I remember seeing my first fenty show 439 00:20:29,320 --> 00:20:32,439 Speaker 3: on the TV and being like, wow, like this is 440 00:20:32,920 --> 00:20:34,840 Speaker 3: how I should have felt watching a lingerie show like 441 00:20:34,880 --> 00:20:38,000 Speaker 3: it made me want to go and buy every single underwear, 442 00:20:38,000 --> 00:20:43,320 Speaker 3: like because I had complete body diversity, gender diversity, people 443 00:20:43,400 --> 00:20:47,240 Speaker 3: were pregnant, like they had everything and kind of like 444 00:20:47,280 --> 00:20:50,080 Speaker 3: what we were saying about seeing the same lingerie and 445 00:20:50,080 --> 00:20:52,000 Speaker 3: all different bodies, It's like, oh, okay, now I can 446 00:20:52,080 --> 00:20:55,760 Speaker 3: wear that. So I think something like that should continue 447 00:20:55,760 --> 00:20:58,880 Speaker 3: because that was very It didn't feel like that had 448 00:20:58,920 --> 00:21:00,920 Speaker 3: any gaze on. It felt like it was through the 449 00:21:01,000 --> 00:21:04,480 Speaker 3: lens of like dance and like all this stuff that's 450 00:21:04,560 --> 00:21:07,480 Speaker 3: ephemeral and like not so much. You look good, you 451 00:21:07,480 --> 00:21:10,760 Speaker 3: look don't you don't look good? So, yeah, Victoria's Secret 452 00:21:10,840 --> 00:21:12,480 Speaker 3: coming back. I'm like, I don't know what the audience 453 00:21:13,000 --> 00:21:17,200 Speaker 3: will be, Like, I guess the CEO and stuff would say, 454 00:21:17,200 --> 00:21:19,080 Speaker 3: you know, this is a show about fantasy. That's why 455 00:21:19,160 --> 00:21:22,879 Speaker 3: we don't have anyone who's not a size XYZ, you know, so, 456 00:21:23,160 --> 00:21:25,800 Speaker 3: and then their sales have gone down, so I'd feel 457 00:21:25,840 --> 00:21:28,600 Speaker 3: like the ship has sailed with Victoria's secret, to be honest, 458 00:21:28,880 --> 00:21:31,320 Speaker 3: be interesting to see if people get around it. But 459 00:21:32,600 --> 00:21:35,959 Speaker 3: it was such a moment in time, and it really like, 460 00:21:36,200 --> 00:21:37,760 Speaker 3: I really think it has a lot of blood on 461 00:21:37,800 --> 00:21:40,480 Speaker 3: its hands, a lot of blood on its hands, because 462 00:21:40,880 --> 00:21:43,639 Speaker 3: all I'd remember doing is going to my room afterwards, 463 00:21:43,920 --> 00:21:45,720 Speaker 3: taking all my clothes off and going back and forward 464 00:21:45,760 --> 00:21:49,240 Speaker 3: in the mirror and being like, I'm not good enough. 465 00:21:50,440 --> 00:21:53,560 Speaker 2: All like the articles about how they like, what they 466 00:21:53,600 --> 00:21:57,560 Speaker 2: eat and what they do to train, like before the shows, 467 00:21:57,640 --> 00:22:00,840 Speaker 2: and like the different messages that were being sent via that, 468 00:22:00,880 --> 00:22:02,520 Speaker 2: because it either was like they were on a really 469 00:22:02,520 --> 00:22:05,960 Speaker 2: restrictive diet or you know, on a juice cleanse or 470 00:22:05,960 --> 00:22:08,400 Speaker 2: something for seventy two hours beforehand, or they'd be like, oh, 471 00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:09,800 Speaker 2: like I don't really I just eat. 472 00:22:09,680 --> 00:22:14,560 Speaker 1: Normal a whole pizza, and it's like, yeah, fucking real. 473 00:22:14,560 --> 00:22:17,920 Speaker 3: Yeah, they kind of can't win, yeah, yeah, yeah. 474 00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:21,440 Speaker 1: And I think that's also a lot of behind the scenes, 475 00:22:21,640 --> 00:22:25,040 Speaker 1: you know, media training and pr messaging that was pushed 476 00:22:25,080 --> 00:22:29,560 Speaker 1: on people, and it's just I agree. I think I'm 477 00:22:29,760 --> 00:22:34,560 Speaker 1: very interested from like a curiosity perspective to see. 478 00:22:34,320 --> 00:22:37,560 Speaker 4: What that like, that change is going to be. 479 00:22:38,119 --> 00:22:41,399 Speaker 1: But I agree, I think it's like, just take a 480 00:22:41,400 --> 00:22:41,960 Speaker 1: step back. 481 00:22:43,080 --> 00:22:45,879 Speaker 2: You had your time, yeah, exactly like you had your moment, 482 00:22:45,920 --> 00:22:46,639 Speaker 2: you had your time. 483 00:22:46,520 --> 00:22:46,960 Speaker 3: In the sun. 484 00:22:47,280 --> 00:22:48,359 Speaker 2: You completely fucked it. 485 00:22:48,680 --> 00:22:50,719 Speaker 3: Let's just leave it, you know what I mean. 486 00:22:51,840 --> 00:22:53,800 Speaker 2: Another thing we wanted to talk about that you do 487 00:22:53,920 --> 00:22:57,520 Speaker 2: reference as a movement a few times throughout the book 488 00:22:58,119 --> 00:23:01,800 Speaker 2: is body neutrality. And I think a lot of us 489 00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:05,800 Speaker 2: heard about body positivity in the last ten years, but 490 00:23:06,320 --> 00:23:09,000 Speaker 2: neutrality is something or being body neutral is something that's 491 00:23:09,040 --> 00:23:12,639 Speaker 2: a bit more of a newer term or concept. So 492 00:23:12,680 --> 00:23:15,440 Speaker 2: we wanted to know, like, what are your thoughts on that, 493 00:23:15,640 --> 00:23:19,040 Speaker 2: and whether or not we should be embracing that as well. 494 00:23:19,760 --> 00:23:22,840 Speaker 3: Yes, I think we should all be embracing body neutrality 495 00:23:22,880 --> 00:23:24,679 Speaker 3: if that's what we want and that's what makes us 496 00:23:24,720 --> 00:23:27,720 Speaker 3: feel empowered. I know that when I was had an 497 00:23:27,720 --> 00:23:29,239 Speaker 3: eating disorder and when I was coming out of that, 498 00:23:29,680 --> 00:23:33,320 Speaker 3: everything was about my body. Any comment anyone made was 499 00:23:33,440 --> 00:23:37,919 Speaker 3: diabolical to me. I was totally and utterly wrapped up 500 00:23:37,960 --> 00:23:39,880 Speaker 3: in my body, both during the eating disorder and also 501 00:23:39,920 --> 00:23:42,600 Speaker 3: coming out of it, and so a concept like body 502 00:23:42,640 --> 00:23:45,520 Speaker 3: neutrality gave me a lot of license to step out 503 00:23:45,560 --> 00:23:47,080 Speaker 3: of that and to be like, oh no, there is 504 00:23:47,119 --> 00:23:49,040 Speaker 3: a whole thing. You know, this is a movement, like 505 00:23:49,080 --> 00:23:52,320 Speaker 3: this is something that people practice and it works for them, 506 00:23:52,640 --> 00:23:55,320 Speaker 3: which is essentially just like not placing so much emphasis 507 00:23:55,359 --> 00:23:57,199 Speaker 3: on the way you look and rather looking at the 508 00:23:57,200 --> 00:23:59,560 Speaker 3: way you feel and not feeling like I think when 509 00:23:59,600 --> 00:24:02,520 Speaker 3: body positivity started, it was radical and I think it 510 00:24:02,680 --> 00:24:06,320 Speaker 3: was helpful, but like so many things, I guess it 511 00:24:06,359 --> 00:24:08,680 Speaker 3: also became a bit of like a so what we're 512 00:24:08,680 --> 00:24:12,119 Speaker 3: meant to love our bodies when society is telling us 513 00:24:12,160 --> 00:24:13,639 Speaker 3: to hate them? Like that's a lot to put on 514 00:24:13,680 --> 00:24:14,320 Speaker 3: an individual. 515 00:24:14,400 --> 00:24:17,600 Speaker 2: It also can feel quite far away, Yes, so far away. 516 00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:20,200 Speaker 3: Even body neutrality, I think can feel really far away. 517 00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:21,760 Speaker 3: It did for me, And then I got to be 518 00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:24,840 Speaker 3: body neutrality and I'm like, oh, okay, this feels really good. 519 00:24:25,160 --> 00:24:26,920 Speaker 3: I think you can tell that you're making progress when 520 00:24:26,960 --> 00:24:29,560 Speaker 3: you start looking at other people in a neutral way. 521 00:24:30,280 --> 00:24:31,800 Speaker 3: And no, when I was unwell, i'd look at all 522 00:24:31,840 --> 00:24:34,720 Speaker 3: people on the street and have like really judged them 523 00:24:34,960 --> 00:24:37,280 Speaker 3: or really compare myself to them, depending on where they 524 00:24:37,320 --> 00:24:39,440 Speaker 3: were on the scale. And then when I kind of 525 00:24:39,440 --> 00:24:43,680 Speaker 3: started embracing body neutrality, I was like, Ah, it's actually 526 00:24:43,720 --> 00:24:46,359 Speaker 3: so nice not judging other people, because when you're judging 527 00:24:46,400 --> 00:24:49,720 Speaker 3: other people, it's in reference to yourself always. Yeah, I understand. 528 00:24:49,920 --> 00:24:53,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that ties in quite interestingly to how 529 00:24:53,760 --> 00:24:56,880 Speaker 1: you discussed about compliments and the way we not only 530 00:24:56,920 --> 00:24:59,280 Speaker 1: talk to ourselves about our looks, but the way that 531 00:24:59,280 --> 00:25:00,800 Speaker 1: we talk to other peop people about them. 532 00:25:01,160 --> 00:25:02,800 Speaker 3: Yeah. When I first started losing weight, I had a 533 00:25:02,800 --> 00:25:07,080 Speaker 3: restrictive eating disorder. When I first started losing weight, I 534 00:25:07,119 --> 00:25:09,400 Speaker 3: didn't have any weight to lose, not that anyone ever does, 535 00:25:09,600 --> 00:25:14,280 Speaker 3: but like it very quickly became obviously a problem. But 536 00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:16,240 Speaker 3: I got so many compliments, like people be like, oh 537 00:25:16,240 --> 00:25:18,840 Speaker 3: my god, body like fire emoji, like what do you do? 538 00:25:19,680 --> 00:25:21,720 Speaker 3: I have behaviors in the office that I worked in, 539 00:25:21,760 --> 00:25:24,200 Speaker 3: them were very clearly problematic, Like it was very clear 540 00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:25,880 Speaker 3: that I had an eating disorder for anyone who would 541 00:25:25,880 --> 00:25:30,000 Speaker 3: have had one. And again the compliments kept coming, like 542 00:25:30,040 --> 00:25:31,760 Speaker 3: how do you eat the same thing every day? Like 543 00:25:31,920 --> 00:25:33,480 Speaker 3: where do you get your willpower from? It was all 544 00:25:33,520 --> 00:25:36,960 Speaker 3: about willpower and me kind of being holier than there 545 00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:38,919 Speaker 3: and I already felt that way so like all these 546 00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:41,879 Speaker 3: things were confirming it, and well meaning people like people 547 00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:46,560 Speaker 3: didn't mean to kind of like no one knew what 548 00:25:46,640 --> 00:25:49,960 Speaker 3: I was going through internally, but I noticed as well. 549 00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:53,480 Speaker 3: Even when I go shopping stuff, it'd always be because 550 00:25:53,480 --> 00:25:57,119 Speaker 3: I did haven't. It's unusual to be underweight to the 551 00:25:57,119 --> 00:26:00,040 Speaker 3: point where you haven't eating disorder, I know, but I 552 00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:04,159 Speaker 3: think some people are so tapped themselves that they're thinking, oh, well, 553 00:26:04,200 --> 00:26:06,119 Speaker 3: they look good though, because that is the you know, 554 00:26:06,680 --> 00:26:08,720 Speaker 3: skinnier and skinnier as better as better as better, because 555 00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:11,520 Speaker 3: it is something that is hard to maintain and get. Yeah, 556 00:26:11,560 --> 00:26:13,560 Speaker 3: and I know, before I had a restrictive eating disorder, 557 00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:20,840 Speaker 3: before I was very unwell, I kind of looked at 558 00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:24,080 Speaker 3: women who were struggling with anorexia and I'd be be like, 559 00:26:24,080 --> 00:26:26,840 Speaker 3: oh that that'd bit it must be nice, you know, 560 00:26:27,040 --> 00:26:28,639 Speaker 3: Like I was, I was still tapped, even though for 561 00:26:28,680 --> 00:26:30,280 Speaker 3: a lot it took me a long time to get 562 00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:32,080 Speaker 3: to the point where I was one of those women. 563 00:26:32,359 --> 00:26:33,919 Speaker 3: I'd totally look at them and be like, oh, no, 564 00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:36,240 Speaker 3: that looks like I'd love that. Like maybe I wouldn't 565 00:26:36,240 --> 00:26:37,680 Speaker 3: go that far, but like it'd be kind of lit 566 00:26:37,720 --> 00:26:39,239 Speaker 3: like having a full on box gap, like had these 567 00:26:39,280 --> 00:26:45,000 Speaker 3: real tapped thoughts. So I think if someone loses weight, 568 00:26:45,040 --> 00:26:47,639 Speaker 3: I never comment on it. There's still sometimes like a 569 00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:49,159 Speaker 3: desire because you want to be like, oh, like you 570 00:26:49,160 --> 00:26:51,040 Speaker 3: look different, like what is it? Or have you changed 571 00:26:51,040 --> 00:26:52,480 Speaker 3: your hair? Or do you do this or do that? 572 00:26:52,600 --> 00:26:55,480 Speaker 3: But yeah, my idea now is to not comment on 573 00:26:55,600 --> 00:26:57,760 Speaker 3: anything that people can't change. So I don't comment on 574 00:26:57,880 --> 00:27:01,600 Speaker 3: like height or weight, or you're breast size, your bum size, 575 00:27:02,119 --> 00:27:04,840 Speaker 3: especially things yeah that have some kind of like sexual connotation, 576 00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:08,199 Speaker 3: because I found that, like people always comment about my boobs. 577 00:27:08,240 --> 00:27:11,640 Speaker 3: It's just a thing, and like so many times it's 578 00:27:11,640 --> 00:27:13,760 Speaker 3: well meaning and like no one's trying to like hurt 579 00:27:13,800 --> 00:27:16,240 Speaker 3: my feelings because having b boobs isn't necessarily a bad thing. 580 00:27:16,600 --> 00:27:18,960 Speaker 3: It's seen as a good thing, right, But I found 581 00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:21,359 Speaker 3: that whenever someone would comment on my boobs, it'd make 582 00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:23,720 Speaker 3: it'd pull me out of myself and again it's taking 583 00:27:23,760 --> 00:27:26,080 Speaker 3: me out of that body neutrality place where I'm like, oh, 584 00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:28,040 Speaker 3: I'm in the world and you're perceiving me that way. 585 00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:30,199 Speaker 3: I wasn't even thinking about that today. What else are 586 00:27:30,200 --> 00:27:31,840 Speaker 3: you thinking about? So if you're kind of like a 587 00:27:31,920 --> 00:27:35,560 Speaker 3: ruminator or an overthinker, and you'd be around people who 588 00:27:35,560 --> 00:27:39,320 Speaker 3: are ruminators or overthinkers. Like every little thing affects can 589 00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:42,240 Speaker 3: affect someone, even hair sometimes, like I wanted to say 590 00:27:42,240 --> 00:27:43,840 Speaker 3: to you, I really love your hair because I'm on 591 00:27:43,880 --> 00:27:46,600 Speaker 3: my hair growth journey, but I stop myself because I'm like, well, 592 00:27:46,600 --> 00:27:48,639 Speaker 3: I don't know, you know, think about this. So maybe 593 00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:50,960 Speaker 3: you really like your hair today, but maybe you only 594 00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:52,680 Speaker 3: feel good when it looks a certain way, or maybe 595 00:27:52,680 --> 00:27:55,159 Speaker 3: you had hair issues before. Like I try to be 596 00:27:55,240 --> 00:28:00,359 Speaker 3: super sensitive conscious, but I think it can take people 597 00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:03,000 Speaker 3: going through something like an eating disorder to understand how 598 00:28:03,040 --> 00:28:05,159 Speaker 3: that impacts people, because most of you just think, oh, 599 00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:06,040 Speaker 3: I'm giving me a compliment. 600 00:28:06,160 --> 00:28:09,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, but you know, I do think, I think and 601 00:28:09,480 --> 00:28:12,560 Speaker 1: I've been trying to do similarly the same thing where 602 00:28:12,560 --> 00:28:16,400 Speaker 1: you don't compliment someone on their looks. But whenever I've 603 00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:20,080 Speaker 1: really made a conscious choice to compliment someone on something 604 00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:22,879 Speaker 1: that was like that was really funny or like I 605 00:28:22,920 --> 00:28:25,359 Speaker 1: had so much fun with you today, whatever, it is, 606 00:28:25,400 --> 00:28:30,000 Speaker 1: like you see people light up so much more when 607 00:28:30,040 --> 00:28:33,840 Speaker 1: you compliment their soul rather than their physical, Like it 608 00:28:33,960 --> 00:28:36,520 Speaker 1: is just the way that you see And I think 609 00:28:36,600 --> 00:28:39,440 Speaker 1: that is like the best way to maybe teach yourself 610 00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:40,680 Speaker 1: out of doing. 611 00:28:40,440 --> 00:28:42,280 Speaker 4: That, because it is a bit of a habit. 612 00:28:42,560 --> 00:28:44,920 Speaker 1: I think a thing to try and like train yourself 613 00:28:44,960 --> 00:28:47,200 Speaker 1: out of it is to think of the compliment that's 614 00:28:47,360 --> 00:28:51,240 Speaker 1: more about the person, Yeah, because it is kind of 615 00:28:51,280 --> 00:28:53,320 Speaker 1: hard to not do that, Like it is a bit 616 00:28:53,360 --> 00:28:55,240 Speaker 1: of a training thing, yeah. 617 00:28:55,040 --> 00:28:56,600 Speaker 3: Or think you think about, Yeah, what are the best 618 00:28:56,640 --> 00:28:58,800 Speaker 3: compliments you've ever gotten and how they make you feel? 619 00:28:59,320 --> 00:29:03,200 Speaker 3: I love that, Yeah, yeah for sure. And you know 620 00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:04,720 Speaker 3: what rings true? And I think the other thing with 621 00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:08,040 Speaker 3: looks or even anything physical is that it changes over time. 622 00:29:08,080 --> 00:29:10,480 Speaker 3: And so if you're complimented early on, like oh, wow, 623 00:29:11,240 --> 00:29:13,320 Speaker 3: you're so beautiful, You're so beautiful, you're so beautiful, what 624 00:29:13,320 --> 00:29:15,600 Speaker 3: happens when you are no longer beautiful in the way 625 00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:17,680 Speaker 3: that you would compliment on Like imagine that four from 626 00:29:17,720 --> 00:29:20,680 Speaker 3: Grace's so true. Yeah. 627 00:29:20,920 --> 00:29:23,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think there was another part that I thought 628 00:29:24,160 --> 00:29:27,920 Speaker 2: was really insightful and also like sometimes made me feel 629 00:29:27,960 --> 00:29:31,440 Speaker 2: quite sad at points, was you talk a lot about 630 00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:35,920 Speaker 2: how the people in your life who love you, like 631 00:29:36,160 --> 00:29:39,200 Speaker 2: your mom or your friends, and how they tried to 632 00:29:39,760 --> 00:29:43,200 Speaker 2: broach the conversation when you were going through what you 633 00:29:43,240 --> 00:29:47,680 Speaker 2: were going through, and how it can be really awkward, 634 00:29:47,880 --> 00:29:50,920 Speaker 2: and people don't know how to ask like are you okay? 635 00:29:51,320 --> 00:29:54,800 Speaker 2: Or do it in a way that's actually helpful and 636 00:29:56,200 --> 00:29:59,280 Speaker 2: isn't going to offend anybody or like push somebody away, 637 00:29:59,480 --> 00:30:01,840 Speaker 2: I think is another thing. So do you have any 638 00:30:01,880 --> 00:30:06,840 Speaker 2: advice on anyone who wants to broach this conversation with 639 00:30:06,920 --> 00:30:09,880 Speaker 2: a loved one about you know, their mental health or 640 00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:13,200 Speaker 2: perhaps their relationship with their body in a way that 641 00:30:13,480 --> 00:30:15,520 Speaker 2: is going to be effective And I know that it's 642 00:30:15,520 --> 00:30:16,760 Speaker 2: going to be different for everyone. 643 00:30:17,160 --> 00:30:20,480 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's such a good question because it's that's probably 644 00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:24,239 Speaker 3: the hardest thing that I Like, I've got friends who 645 00:30:24,320 --> 00:30:27,520 Speaker 3: are definitely going through things which I struggle to bring 646 00:30:27,600 --> 00:30:30,440 Speaker 3: up with them, and they're in positions that I was before, 647 00:30:30,880 --> 00:30:32,560 Speaker 3: and I still don't And even though I've gone through 648 00:30:32,560 --> 00:30:34,239 Speaker 3: it and they know they've seen me go through it, 649 00:30:34,560 --> 00:30:36,320 Speaker 3: I still struggle to put the words to it and 650 00:30:36,360 --> 00:30:38,960 Speaker 3: ask them the right questions. It's really hard. And I 651 00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:42,040 Speaker 3: remember when I was unwell, people would reach out to me, 652 00:30:42,160 --> 00:30:44,479 Speaker 3: Like I had a friend who I wasn't super close with, 653 00:30:44,520 --> 00:30:46,440 Speaker 3: but I had been previously, and I took some video 654 00:30:46,440 --> 00:30:48,959 Speaker 3: of myself in the mirror and she was like, are 655 00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:51,920 Speaker 3: you okay or something, and it just it just like 656 00:30:52,040 --> 00:30:54,440 Speaker 3: pissed me off because other things, like my type of 657 00:30:54,480 --> 00:30:57,040 Speaker 3: eating disorder, everything would pisce me off. I was angry 658 00:30:57,040 --> 00:30:58,920 Speaker 3: all the time. And so you've got to be if 659 00:30:58,920 --> 00:31:00,600 Speaker 3: you're going to be the person who's going to say something, 660 00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:03,720 Speaker 3: you've got to be prepared to like be bitten. Yeah, 661 00:31:03,760 --> 00:31:06,320 Speaker 3: but sometimes you do have to take the step and 662 00:31:06,360 --> 00:31:09,560 Speaker 3: be the person because eventually, when the person comes out 663 00:31:09,560 --> 00:31:11,520 Speaker 3: of it, I think they'll see that you had the 664 00:31:11,520 --> 00:31:13,840 Speaker 3: best intentions. But I think there are some things you 665 00:31:13,880 --> 00:31:18,040 Speaker 3: can do, like Butterfly Foundation and inside Out an Institute 666 00:31:18,040 --> 00:31:20,440 Speaker 3: of Being Disorders have good guidelines for this kind of thing. 667 00:31:20,760 --> 00:31:23,520 Speaker 3: But going off my gut feeling, I would avoid saying 668 00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:25,880 Speaker 3: things like, oh, you look really different, or you look 669 00:31:25,920 --> 00:31:28,040 Speaker 3: like you've lost a lot of weight, because for someone 670 00:31:28,080 --> 00:31:29,720 Speaker 3: who's sick, that can be a real compliment and it 671 00:31:29,760 --> 00:31:32,720 Speaker 3: can just encourage them to go further. And also just 672 00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:37,440 Speaker 3: that's often one very particular symptom someone could be going through, 673 00:31:37,960 --> 00:31:40,720 Speaker 3: like a binge eating disorder, and you can't you don't 674 00:31:40,720 --> 00:31:43,080 Speaker 3: see them on a Sunday because they're at home all day, 675 00:31:43,200 --> 00:31:48,200 Speaker 3: you know, engaging the behavior, and so it isn't visible. 676 00:31:49,000 --> 00:31:51,160 Speaker 3: I guess the thing to focus on is maybe you 677 00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:52,840 Speaker 3: haven't really been yourself, like I feel like you're a 678 00:31:52,880 --> 00:31:55,320 Speaker 3: bit vacant talking about how they were before verse now 679 00:31:55,520 --> 00:31:57,240 Speaker 3: and not guilty of it, being like I feel like 680 00:31:57,280 --> 00:31:59,400 Speaker 3: we haven't laughed in a long time, or like, is 681 00:31:59,440 --> 00:32:01,160 Speaker 3: there something you want to do that would be fun 682 00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:03,640 Speaker 3: for you? Because I think as well, your priorities can 683 00:32:03,720 --> 00:32:05,800 Speaker 3: narrow socially when you have an eating disorder, don't want 684 00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:08,240 Speaker 3: to go out and eat with people, or struggle to 685 00:32:08,240 --> 00:32:10,280 Speaker 3: stay with people for long amounts of time because you're tired. 686 00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:13,000 Speaker 3: So I guess asking them questions about themselves, but also 687 00:32:13,040 --> 00:32:15,800 Speaker 3: knowing when to back away and not make them feel targeted. 688 00:32:15,840 --> 00:32:17,480 Speaker 3: Like there are a few instances in the book where 689 00:32:17,520 --> 00:32:20,800 Speaker 3: I talk about how friends would make comments and they 690 00:32:20,840 --> 00:32:23,040 Speaker 3: would upset me. They probably shouldn't have upset me because 691 00:32:23,040 --> 00:32:25,680 Speaker 3: they were very small. I gave the book to one 692 00:32:25,720 --> 00:32:27,920 Speaker 3: of my friends. I went and visited her recently. She 693 00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:31,040 Speaker 3: sent me this really beautiful whatspped message after being like Cindy, like, 694 00:32:31,080 --> 00:32:32,960 Speaker 3: I didn't know you were going through this thing. I 695 00:32:33,000 --> 00:32:35,160 Speaker 3: didn't mean what I said, Like we were really young, 696 00:32:35,200 --> 00:32:36,640 Speaker 3: like I didn't know what to say, and I just 697 00:32:36,640 --> 00:32:38,480 Speaker 3: felt like being like to her. I hope I don't 698 00:32:38,520 --> 00:32:40,400 Speaker 3: read this book and think that I'm blaming you at all. 699 00:32:40,440 --> 00:32:42,320 Speaker 3: It's just I'm talking about the way I thought back then, 700 00:32:42,320 --> 00:32:44,640 Speaker 3: and I was tapped. I think it's also like if 701 00:32:44,680 --> 00:32:47,120 Speaker 3: you're so, if you're a friend who said something that 702 00:32:47,200 --> 00:32:49,960 Speaker 3: hasn't gone well with someone who's going through it, just 703 00:32:50,040 --> 00:32:51,600 Speaker 3: know as well. I think they'll come around. Like me 704 00:32:51,640 --> 00:32:53,719 Speaker 3: and this friend that's like brought us to a new 705 00:32:53,760 --> 00:32:56,000 Speaker 3: level of bonding where I feel bad about the way 706 00:32:56,040 --> 00:32:59,040 Speaker 3: I behaved more than she should and we now can 707 00:32:59,040 --> 00:33:02,000 Speaker 3: come together and talk about at it. But yeah, it's 708 00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:05,200 Speaker 3: definitely hard. I still struggle even though I've gone through it. 709 00:33:05,520 --> 00:33:06,840 Speaker 2: I think that's really great advice. 710 00:33:06,840 --> 00:33:09,960 Speaker 1: So I think that's really helpful of you know, taking 711 00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:12,440 Speaker 1: it out of again the physical and making it more 712 00:33:12,480 --> 00:33:15,280 Speaker 1: about you know, we haven't laughed in a really long time, 713 00:33:15,400 --> 00:33:16,880 Speaker 1: or I really want to spend more time with you 714 00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:18,800 Speaker 1: and you know we don't see you as much, and 715 00:33:18,840 --> 00:33:19,760 Speaker 1: making it more about that. 716 00:33:19,880 --> 00:33:22,800 Speaker 3: I'd avoid saying we've all been talking about it, make 717 00:33:22,840 --> 00:33:23,160 Speaker 3: it so. 718 00:33:23,120 --> 00:33:25,480 Speaker 2: It's yeah, yeah, that's hurtful. 719 00:33:25,160 --> 00:33:28,800 Speaker 3: Because let's be real, like everyone, like we're. 720 00:33:28,800 --> 00:33:31,160 Speaker 2: Like we're worried about you, like we've been I've been 721 00:33:31,160 --> 00:33:32,920 Speaker 2: talking with so and so and so and so, and 722 00:33:32,960 --> 00:33:35,640 Speaker 2: we're all worried about you. I think that kind of 723 00:33:35,640 --> 00:33:38,800 Speaker 2: group mentality in that situation, because you. 724 00:33:38,760 --> 00:33:41,959 Speaker 1: Already feel so isolated, you already feel like everyone's looking 725 00:33:42,000 --> 00:33:47,520 Speaker 1: at you. Yeah, so that's like a confirmation of worst fears. Yeah, basically, yeah, 726 00:33:47,600 --> 00:33:50,280 Speaker 1: exactly it it's like all cool, So everyone was looking 727 00:33:50,280 --> 00:33:52,720 Speaker 1: at me and thinking bad things about me, and it's 728 00:33:52,760 --> 00:33:55,120 Speaker 1: probably going to push someone further away. 729 00:33:55,720 --> 00:33:56,040 Speaker 3: Yeah. 730 00:33:56,120 --> 00:33:58,440 Speaker 2: At the end of the book, I think you tie 731 00:33:58,440 --> 00:34:01,920 Speaker 2: it all together really beautifully where you bring us back 732 00:34:01,960 --> 00:34:06,200 Speaker 2: to where you were as a child, and I think 733 00:34:06,320 --> 00:34:08,600 Speaker 2: you know, you point out that many of us are 734 00:34:08,840 --> 00:34:13,120 Speaker 2: our own worst critic and we think of ourselves really, 735 00:34:13,160 --> 00:34:18,400 Speaker 2: really harshly, even as young children. And I wanted to 736 00:34:18,440 --> 00:34:21,040 Speaker 2: read out one of my favorite parts in the book, 737 00:34:21,080 --> 00:34:23,719 Speaker 2: which is in the final chapter. So excuse me for 738 00:34:23,920 --> 00:34:27,120 Speaker 2: quoting yourself at you. I used to look at the 739 00:34:27,160 --> 00:34:31,319 Speaker 2: girl I was when Don'tcha was released and feel embarrassed. 740 00:34:32,280 --> 00:34:34,799 Speaker 2: The more I challenge myself and my beliefs as I 741 00:34:34,840 --> 00:34:37,359 Speaker 2: became an adult, the more I could look back at 742 00:34:37,360 --> 00:34:39,520 Speaker 2: this girl and find her cute. 743 00:34:39,600 --> 00:34:40,640 Speaker 3: I look at her and. 744 00:34:40,600 --> 00:34:42,879 Speaker 2: I want to tell her that I'm sorry for being 745 00:34:42,960 --> 00:34:47,960 Speaker 2: embarrassed by her, And that obviously struck a chord with me, 746 00:34:48,200 --> 00:34:49,680 Speaker 2: and I think it's going to strike a chord with 747 00:34:49,800 --> 00:34:52,799 Speaker 2: a lot of people who will relate to that. But 748 00:34:52,920 --> 00:34:57,120 Speaker 2: how important was it to connect with your inner child 749 00:34:57,480 --> 00:34:59,800 Speaker 2: during your recovery to get to where you are today? 750 00:35:00,680 --> 00:35:02,880 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it was everything. I think that's like 751 00:35:02,920 --> 00:35:05,839 Speaker 3: the final piece of the puzzle, being able to be like, oh, 752 00:35:05,880 --> 00:35:08,279 Speaker 3: and that's what this book's been really helpful with is Yeah, 753 00:35:08,320 --> 00:35:09,920 Speaker 3: it's a shame thing. Like I did have a lot 754 00:35:09,960 --> 00:35:12,719 Speaker 3: of shame about that little girl, and you know, the 755 00:35:12,719 --> 00:35:16,200 Speaker 3: first time someone commented on my appearance and about my 756 00:35:16,280 --> 00:35:18,440 Speaker 3: nose and I'd never thought about it, and then oh no, no, 757 00:35:18,920 --> 00:35:20,879 Speaker 3: it's hanging over my head and I'm not the way 758 00:35:20,920 --> 00:35:22,320 Speaker 3: that I want to look. And that's like a really 759 00:35:22,400 --> 00:35:26,080 Speaker 3: important thing. So being able to like look at photos 760 00:35:26,120 --> 00:35:28,000 Speaker 3: of yourself and not be embarrassed and not want to 761 00:35:28,080 --> 00:35:30,520 Speaker 3: hide them, that that was like half for me to 762 00:35:30,520 --> 00:35:33,000 Speaker 3: write as well. That was an emotional sentence to write 763 00:35:33,080 --> 00:35:35,359 Speaker 3: because I was like, it is it is even hard 764 00:35:35,400 --> 00:35:38,359 Speaker 3: to say that you're embarrassed, Like that feeling of embarrassment 765 00:35:38,400 --> 00:35:41,200 Speaker 3: over someone that you were that you are. It's about 766 00:35:41,200 --> 00:35:44,399 Speaker 3: accepting yourself now through the little child. And I think 767 00:35:44,600 --> 00:35:47,040 Speaker 3: like a lot of therapy talks about you and a 768 00:35:47,160 --> 00:35:49,680 Speaker 3: child and like talking to it nicely because yeah, that 769 00:35:49,719 --> 00:35:54,680 Speaker 3: person still yeah, yeah, And I think that's what I mean. 770 00:35:54,719 --> 00:35:57,120 Speaker 3: When people ask to see my nose before, I'm like, well, 771 00:35:57,400 --> 00:35:59,520 Speaker 3: you're not allowed to be mean to that little girl. 772 00:35:59,600 --> 00:36:01,480 Speaker 3: I am and I don't anymore. So I'm not going 773 00:36:01,560 --> 00:36:03,040 Speaker 3: to let you look at the photo of me before 774 00:36:03,400 --> 00:36:05,040 Speaker 3: and tell me that it looks a certain way because 775 00:36:05,040 --> 00:36:08,840 Speaker 3: I'm still that person. And I think sometimes that's hard 776 00:36:09,480 --> 00:36:13,239 Speaker 3: for people to wrap their heads around maybe, but yeah, 777 00:36:13,280 --> 00:36:17,240 Speaker 3: I think like being able to because you still remember 778 00:36:17,280 --> 00:36:19,239 Speaker 3: the feeling of what it was like to first not 779 00:36:19,280 --> 00:36:21,719 Speaker 3: accept yourself. And I think because you can feel that 780 00:36:21,760 --> 00:36:23,279 Speaker 3: it is something that you can change, like you can 781 00:36:23,320 --> 00:36:26,040 Speaker 3: stay with you, but it can influence you to not 782 00:36:26,160 --> 00:36:29,120 Speaker 3: perpetuate that, like not being nice to children and like 783 00:36:29,239 --> 00:36:31,080 Speaker 3: realize that they're taking things on. You know, just because 784 00:36:31,080 --> 00:36:34,319 Speaker 3: someone's ten or eleven doesn't mean shit's flowing off their back. 785 00:36:34,480 --> 00:36:38,799 Speaker 3: Like yeah, they're smart children smart. So yeah, I'm glad 786 00:36:38,840 --> 00:36:39,520 Speaker 3: you liked that bit. 787 00:36:39,880 --> 00:36:40,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, it was beautiful. 788 00:36:40,880 --> 00:36:43,600 Speaker 3: Yourself. Oh, I don't know if I really answer that question, 789 00:36:43,640 --> 00:36:44,720 Speaker 3: but you made me emotional. 790 00:36:44,840 --> 00:36:48,239 Speaker 2: No, I think you definitely did. And I think it's 791 00:36:48,320 --> 00:36:52,040 Speaker 2: just a nice reminder for people if they are, you know, 792 00:36:52,400 --> 00:36:54,800 Speaker 2: being hard on themselves or being their own worst critic, 793 00:36:54,840 --> 00:36:58,640 Speaker 2: whether it's physically or emotionally or mentally, to think of 794 00:36:58,680 --> 00:37:01,800 Speaker 2: yourself as a child and be like, it's a reminder 795 00:37:01,840 --> 00:37:04,319 Speaker 2: that you're doing life for the first time and you're 796 00:37:04,360 --> 00:37:07,680 Speaker 2: still that person. And that person was like innocent and 797 00:37:07,800 --> 00:37:10,279 Speaker 2: pure and had good intentions and just wanted to like 798 00:37:10,360 --> 00:37:13,200 Speaker 2: be happy, and like you can still be that person. 799 00:37:13,480 --> 00:37:14,880 Speaker 3: So, yeah, it was beautiful. 800 00:37:14,920 --> 00:37:17,760 Speaker 1: I think there's going to be so so many takeaways 801 00:37:17,800 --> 00:37:21,000 Speaker 1: that people can get from this book. So I also 802 00:37:21,120 --> 00:37:24,160 Speaker 1: just want to thank you for writing it, because this 803 00:37:24,200 --> 00:37:26,799 Speaker 1: would have been a lot for someone to do and 804 00:37:26,880 --> 00:37:30,160 Speaker 1: it's very very incredible of you. But I want to 805 00:37:30,160 --> 00:37:33,160 Speaker 1: know what's your one takeaway that you really want people 806 00:37:33,239 --> 00:37:34,560 Speaker 1: to take away from your book. 807 00:37:34,800 --> 00:37:40,000 Speaker 3: Yes, my one takeaway is that thinking about food all 808 00:37:40,040 --> 00:37:45,279 Speaker 3: the time is not normal. It shouldn't be normal. It's 809 00:37:45,320 --> 00:37:47,920 Speaker 3: a prison. Know that you're in a prison if you're 810 00:37:47,920 --> 00:37:50,880 Speaker 3: thinking mut all the time. I think that everyone is 811 00:37:50,920 --> 00:37:52,520 Speaker 3: capable of going back to the way that they ate 812 00:37:52,560 --> 00:37:55,799 Speaker 3: when they're a child. I know that eating issues can 813 00:37:55,840 --> 00:37:58,040 Speaker 3: happen for people from a very very early age, but 814 00:37:58,120 --> 00:38:01,880 Speaker 3: I think looking into the idea like your body's so smart. 815 00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:04,600 Speaker 3: It knows what setway you meant to be. It knows 816 00:38:04,719 --> 00:38:07,200 Speaker 3: how much it needs to eat. Someone to struggle with've 817 00:38:07,200 --> 00:38:08,720 Speaker 3: being eating And that was probably one of the hardest 818 00:38:08,760 --> 00:38:11,480 Speaker 3: things for me because it was very physical and it 819 00:38:11,520 --> 00:38:14,640 Speaker 3: was this problem that I couldn't work out. I was like, 820 00:38:14,800 --> 00:38:18,279 Speaker 3: I can't stop thinking about food. I can't, And I'm like, 821 00:38:18,719 --> 00:38:20,000 Speaker 3: I'm not going to go back to being a kid 822 00:38:20,000 --> 00:38:22,200 Speaker 3: where I don't think about it. I've already opened Pandora's box. 823 00:38:22,239 --> 00:38:24,200 Speaker 3: I'm never gonna be able to get that back. So 824 00:38:24,280 --> 00:38:26,880 Speaker 3: my biggest takeaway, and the biggest message that I hope 825 00:38:27,200 --> 00:38:29,719 Speaker 3: at least one person takes away from the book, is 826 00:38:29,760 --> 00:38:33,319 Speaker 3: that it is possible to not diet. It might you 827 00:38:33,360 --> 00:38:35,759 Speaker 3: might have one hundred percent of the people in your 828 00:38:35,840 --> 00:38:38,680 Speaker 3: orbit will be dieting. It's one way or another, watching 829 00:38:38,719 --> 00:38:41,560 Speaker 3: what they eat, not eating certain things, and that's their prerogative. 830 00:38:41,600 --> 00:38:44,439 Speaker 3: That everyone's entitled to eat what they do and don't 831 00:38:44,480 --> 00:38:45,160 Speaker 3: want so I guess. 832 00:38:45,200 --> 00:38:45,359 Speaker 1: Yeah. 833 00:38:45,400 --> 00:38:48,880 Speaker 3: The biggest takeaway would be know that dieting doesn't have 834 00:38:48,960 --> 00:38:51,520 Speaker 3: to be normal, and just know that. Like I'm someone 835 00:38:51,520 --> 00:38:54,919 Speaker 3: who was a hardcore dieter and I don't think about 836 00:38:54,920 --> 00:38:59,080 Speaker 3: food at all anymore. It's crazy. I think that's very unusual. 837 00:38:59,120 --> 00:39:01,239 Speaker 3: I don't think it should be on your usual. But 838 00:39:01,360 --> 00:39:03,759 Speaker 3: every day I wake up and I'm gonna brag about it, 839 00:39:03,760 --> 00:39:06,440 Speaker 3: like I'm sorry, but it's amazing. We've done the work. Yeah, 840 00:39:06,520 --> 00:39:08,000 Speaker 3: I wake up and I don't I just think what 841 00:39:08,040 --> 00:39:09,880 Speaker 3: am I gonna eat today? I don't even know. I 842 00:39:09,880 --> 00:39:11,759 Speaker 3: don't care. I'll just eat when I'm hungry. I'll eat 843 00:39:11,800 --> 00:39:15,279 Speaker 3: whatever's there, might feel like something super healthy, might feel 844 00:39:15,320 --> 00:39:17,480 Speaker 3: like whatever is in front of me. But I've got 845 00:39:17,520 --> 00:39:19,600 Speaker 3: other things to think about. That's beautiful. 846 00:39:19,640 --> 00:39:20,600 Speaker 1: Thank you so much. 847 00:39:20,600 --> 00:39:21,480 Speaker 3: It's amazing. 848 00:39:21,840 --> 00:39:25,120 Speaker 2: We finish all of our episodes with guests with the 849 00:39:25,160 --> 00:39:29,480 Speaker 2: same question, and that is what's your biggest life lesson 850 00:39:30,000 --> 00:39:30,919 Speaker 2: you've learned so far? 851 00:39:31,239 --> 00:39:34,400 Speaker 3: Mine is that a smile is everything. 852 00:39:34,600 --> 00:39:37,040 Speaker 2: Oh, it's beautiful, I really mean it. 853 00:39:37,040 --> 00:39:40,719 Speaker 3: It feels spiritual. I'm not really spiritual person, but like 854 00:39:41,120 --> 00:39:43,080 Speaker 3: when you walk past someone on the street and you 855 00:39:43,120 --> 00:39:45,919 Speaker 3: smile like lights something up in my heart. I can't 856 00:39:45,960 --> 00:39:48,479 Speaker 3: even describe. It's like a little something like very very deep, 857 00:39:48,560 --> 00:39:52,400 Speaker 3: just gets a little warmth around it. It's a sparkling. Ye, 858 00:39:52,880 --> 00:39:56,680 Speaker 3: there's something in it, guys. There's something spiritual about smiling. 859 00:39:57,160 --> 00:39:59,279 Speaker 3: It sounds so enough and so like I wish we 860 00:39:59,280 --> 00:40:02,600 Speaker 3: could old baker and eat it together. But you know 861 00:40:02,600 --> 00:40:05,959 Speaker 3: what I mean, a lot of feelings. Yeah, someone young, 862 00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:08,520 Speaker 3: a little baby, an old person and you just smile, 863 00:40:08,719 --> 00:40:11,560 Speaker 3: and that's just like, it's the best for me. 864 00:40:11,600 --> 00:40:15,560 Speaker 1: I'm done, Like, yes, yeah, I love especially when it's 865 00:40:15,560 --> 00:40:16,160 Speaker 1: a stranger. 866 00:40:16,640 --> 00:40:20,000 Speaker 3: Yes, we have no business smiling each other. We don't 867 00:40:20,000 --> 00:40:22,320 Speaker 3: want anything from each other, and we're just smiling and beautiful. 868 00:40:22,400 --> 00:40:25,880 Speaker 1: I would love for this to be everyone's takeaway, like 869 00:40:25,920 --> 00:40:28,799 Speaker 1: on Today that you listen to this episode, smile at 870 00:40:28,800 --> 00:40:29,360 Speaker 1: a stranger. 871 00:40:29,760 --> 00:40:32,359 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's seriously special. And even if they don't smile back, 872 00:40:32,360 --> 00:40:36,359 Speaker 3: they've clocked it, and a few more smiles and they'll start, Yeah, 873 00:40:36,600 --> 00:40:37,160 Speaker 3: you're won. 874 00:40:37,360 --> 00:40:40,160 Speaker 4: Smile for them to start smiling at other people. 875 00:40:40,239 --> 00:40:41,640 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's beautiful. 876 00:40:41,680 --> 00:40:45,400 Speaker 1: I'm gonna go a smile at everyone. 877 00:40:46,880 --> 00:40:52,000 Speaker 2: Like a mannic smile at the same time. Yeah, fully 878 00:40:52,480 --> 00:40:56,040 Speaker 2: for anybody who doesn't already follow you, where can they 879 00:40:56,080 --> 00:40:58,000 Speaker 2: find you? And of course where can people find the book? 880 00:40:58,280 --> 00:41:00,440 Speaker 3: Yes, so you can follow me at frooms on Instagram 881 00:41:00,480 --> 00:41:04,239 Speaker 3: that's where I'm most vocal. That's rooms with three o's. 882 00:41:04,480 --> 00:41:06,960 Speaker 3: And then you can get my book wherever you get books. 883 00:41:07,000 --> 00:41:09,640 Speaker 3: I think it'll be at the airport bw all. Your 884 00:41:09,640 --> 00:41:12,080 Speaker 3: indie retailers have really gotten behind it, which is great. 885 00:41:12,480 --> 00:41:14,560 Speaker 3: So you just see it. It's yellow with a pink 886 00:41:14,600 --> 00:41:17,600 Speaker 3: writing all over. Wanted us to be hot, gorgeous football 887 00:41:17,640 --> 00:41:20,799 Speaker 3: links in the show notes. Of course, get the chicks 888 00:41:20,800 --> 00:41:21,279 Speaker 3: around it. 889 00:41:21,480 --> 00:41:25,479 Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, well, thank you so much for coming on again. 890 00:41:25,800 --> 00:41:27,560 Speaker 2: I don't think we need to repeat it, but it 891 00:41:27,560 --> 00:41:30,239 Speaker 2: was an absolute pleasure. The book is wonderful. You should 892 00:41:30,280 --> 00:41:33,319 Speaker 2: be so proud. And thanks to you chicks for having 893 00:41:33,360 --> 00:41:35,279 Speaker 2: us in the ear holes. We love to be here. 894 00:41:35,320 --> 00:41:37,959 Speaker 2: And thank you to MK made for making today's episode happen. 895 00:41:38,239 --> 00:41:40,120 Speaker 4: Love It by Chicky Bide Chick