1 00:00:05,960 --> 00:00:08,559 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Fear and Greed Daily Interview. I'm Sean Almer. 2 00:00:08,680 --> 00:00:12,800 Speaker 1: A change of pace today. Amsl Ero is a company 3 00:00:12,840 --> 00:00:15,960 Speaker 1: trying to make many childhood dreams come true. Sort of 4 00:00:16,280 --> 00:00:19,840 Speaker 1: flying cars, kind of. The Sydney headquartered business company was 5 00:00:19,840 --> 00:00:23,120 Speaker 1: founded by aeronautical engineer Andrew Moore and former Google executive 6 00:00:23,160 --> 00:00:27,280 Speaker 1: Chevorn Linden in twenty seventeen, and it's aircraft known as 7 00:00:27,880 --> 00:00:32,960 Speaker 1: ev Toll Electric vertical takeoff and landing lifts and lands 8 00:00:33,000 --> 00:00:37,440 Speaker 1: like a helicopter, but flies like a plane. The CEO 9 00:00:37,640 --> 00:00:42,320 Speaker 1: of amsl is Adriano d Pietro, and I welcome him 10 00:00:42,400 --> 00:00:44,840 Speaker 1: to the studio. Adriana, Welcome to Fear and Greed. 11 00:00:44,920 --> 00:00:46,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, thanks to all for having me. 12 00:00:46,680 --> 00:00:48,120 Speaker 1: So tell me about I mean, this is kind of 13 00:00:48,200 --> 00:00:50,600 Speaker 1: child or dream stuff. And I must say we picked 14 00:00:50,600 --> 00:00:51,879 Speaker 1: this up because it's a great story in the fin 15 00:00:51,960 --> 00:00:56,480 Speaker 1: review about a fundraising that you're doing. But just give 16 00:00:56,480 --> 00:00:59,800 Speaker 1: me the history of amsl where it's come from, where 17 00:00:59,800 --> 00:01:00,360 Speaker 1: it's up to. 18 00:01:00,600 --> 00:01:02,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, sure, I mean, look, the company was founded in 19 00:01:02,920 --> 00:01:05,880 Speaker 2: twenty seventeen and about that time, a little a few 20 00:01:05,920 --> 00:01:08,600 Speaker 2: years earlier, there started to be a bit of a 21 00:01:08,640 --> 00:01:11,959 Speaker 2: surge in what was being called advanced air mobility. So 22 00:01:12,040 --> 00:01:15,200 Speaker 2: this idea, like with the electrification of our cars, that 23 00:01:15,240 --> 00:01:20,000 Speaker 2: we could see a green electric future for aviation, but 24 00:01:20,120 --> 00:01:22,360 Speaker 2: also with some of the other technology that was developing 25 00:01:22,400 --> 00:01:25,480 Speaker 2: at the time digital systems. Everyone says AI, but a 26 00:01:25,520 --> 00:01:28,600 Speaker 2: bit of that too, that maybe these aircraft could do 27 00:01:28,760 --> 00:01:31,520 Speaker 2: something different. And that was where this vertical takeoff a 28 00:01:31,600 --> 00:01:34,680 Speaker 2: landing piece comes into the story. And all of a 29 00:01:34,720 --> 00:01:38,080 Speaker 2: sudden you start to think about aircraft that could point 30 00:01:38,080 --> 00:01:42,679 Speaker 2: to point land on a dime, do it cleanly, guilt free, quietly, 31 00:01:43,640 --> 00:01:46,440 Speaker 2: more safely. So we talk about, you know, things in 32 00:01:46,480 --> 00:01:51,040 Speaker 2: electric cars being simpler, same thinking with with aircraft, and 33 00:01:51,080 --> 00:01:53,600 Speaker 2: so I think it was really with what was happening 34 00:01:53,680 --> 00:01:57,680 Speaker 2: internationally around this push toward what was being called advanced 35 00:01:57,720 --> 00:02:02,040 Speaker 2: air mobility. That's Andrew and Chavonn coming out of some 36 00:02:02,080 --> 00:02:05,520 Speaker 2: work that they'd been doing, had seen an opportunity here 37 00:02:05,560 --> 00:02:09,160 Speaker 2: in Australia and that Journeys then progressed. So from twenty 38 00:02:09,240 --> 00:02:13,520 Speaker 2: seventeen the company was supported by some really great investors. 39 00:02:13,520 --> 00:02:15,760 Speaker 2: IP Group was one of those that came on really early, 40 00:02:15,919 --> 00:02:19,360 Speaker 2: sort of spinning the technology an idea out of University 41 00:02:19,360 --> 00:02:23,880 Speaker 2: of Sydney and looking at the opportunity to develop our 42 00:02:23,919 --> 00:02:28,840 Speaker 2: own ev tol here in Australia, leveraging great competence in 43 00:02:29,360 --> 00:02:32,440 Speaker 2: aeronautical and aerospace engineering that we have for many years. 44 00:02:32,440 --> 00:02:34,600 Speaker 2: You know, Bowen's largest presence outside of the US is 45 00:02:35,000 --> 00:02:37,560 Speaker 2: Fisherman's Bend in Melbourne, but also off the back of 46 00:02:37,600 --> 00:02:40,359 Speaker 2: some projects that had happened here in Sydney, the Yamaha 47 00:02:40,400 --> 00:02:44,080 Speaker 2: helicopter project which was known to some and bringing that 48 00:02:44,120 --> 00:02:48,600 Speaker 2: team together around really going hard at this race that 49 00:02:48,680 --> 00:02:51,440 Speaker 2: was happening, and I would say perhaps a bit of 50 00:02:51,480 --> 00:02:54,160 Speaker 2: a hype curve, certainly the upward trend at that time. 51 00:02:54,720 --> 00:02:58,760 Speaker 2: And you know, fast forward through COVID getting off the 52 00:02:58,840 --> 00:03:02,600 Speaker 2: drawing board out into ground based testing. End of twenty 53 00:03:02,639 --> 00:03:07,399 Speaker 2: twenty four, ams Aero joined one of only a few 54 00:03:07,440 --> 00:03:11,760 Speaker 2: companies in the world to flight test their prototype. And 55 00:03:11,800 --> 00:03:15,520 Speaker 2: so really, if you look at what's happening in this space, 56 00:03:15,720 --> 00:03:18,400 Speaker 2: you know, stuff of dreams, as you said, flying cars 57 00:03:18,440 --> 00:03:22,200 Speaker 2: sort of, we're now venturing into a space where you know, 58 00:03:22,240 --> 00:03:25,280 Speaker 2: this is real. It's there are a lot of venders 59 00:03:25,280 --> 00:03:29,680 Speaker 2: out there in this future idyllic world, but we've got 60 00:03:29,680 --> 00:03:33,200 Speaker 2: real aircraft prototypes that are flying and we are now 61 00:03:33,240 --> 00:03:37,040 Speaker 2: on a race for scale up in fairness, where the 62 00:03:37,080 --> 00:03:40,280 Speaker 2: opportunity is becoming certainly very real right now, and the 63 00:03:40,360 --> 00:03:43,200 Speaker 2: runway that we've got to get to market with a 64 00:03:43,200 --> 00:03:44,120 Speaker 2: commercial product. 65 00:03:44,360 --> 00:03:47,480 Speaker 1: Okay, so I've seen a picture of their vehicles. Just 66 00:03:47,560 --> 00:03:51,120 Speaker 1: explain what they're like. And I mean they literally hover 67 00:03:51,720 --> 00:03:54,120 Speaker 1: to take off and land. But then I think three 68 00:03:54,200 --> 00:03:58,000 Speaker 1: hundred kometers or something. Yeah, yeah, I mean, so explain that. 69 00:03:58,400 --> 00:04:01,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, So it's so your point of the flying car 70 00:04:01,560 --> 00:04:04,920 Speaker 2: sort of. These are still an aircraft, so people I 71 00:04:04,920 --> 00:04:08,720 Speaker 2: think relate most to when we describe them similar to 72 00:04:08,760 --> 00:04:12,080 Speaker 2: a drone. These are a large drone that can take 73 00:04:12,480 --> 00:04:16,000 Speaker 2: people and cargo five hundred kilos of payload in fact. 74 00:04:16,560 --> 00:04:19,320 Speaker 2: And what you'd see when you see our aircraft is 75 00:04:19,360 --> 00:04:22,880 Speaker 2: a design with multiple roaders. We have eight, four on 76 00:04:22,920 --> 00:04:24,800 Speaker 2: each side, two on each four and a half wing. 77 00:04:25,480 --> 00:04:28,719 Speaker 2: That's all about safety and redundancy, but it's also about 78 00:04:28,760 --> 00:04:31,360 Speaker 2: the lift we need to get such a large aircraft 79 00:04:31,440 --> 00:04:34,400 Speaker 2: off the ground and as you say, take off like 80 00:04:34,440 --> 00:04:38,360 Speaker 2: a helicopter, so vertically off of those roaders, and then 81 00:04:38,440 --> 00:04:43,760 Speaker 2: our aircraft uniquely tilts those roaders forward and then starts 82 00:04:43,800 --> 00:04:46,000 Speaker 2: to fly forward like an airplane, and we actually have 83 00:04:46,080 --> 00:04:48,560 Speaker 2: wings like an aircraft, and that's where we hit those 84 00:04:48,600 --> 00:04:52,160 Speaker 2: three hundred klometer an hour speeds. So take off like 85 00:04:52,200 --> 00:04:55,559 Speaker 2: a helicopter, fly forward like a plane, and then land 86 00:04:55,640 --> 00:04:56,440 Speaker 2: like a helicopter. 87 00:04:57,160 --> 00:05:03,160 Speaker 1: Okay, so many questions. They're electric, yes, all right? Are 88 00:05:03,160 --> 00:05:04,719 Speaker 1: they for passengers or are they for cargo? 89 00:05:05,080 --> 00:05:07,640 Speaker 2: Both? Is the short. I mean, we have a first 90 00:05:08,120 --> 00:05:11,840 Speaker 2: a few first customers that we're really focusing on aeromedical applications. 91 00:05:11,880 --> 00:05:13,200 Speaker 2: So that's absolutely for people. 92 00:05:13,440 --> 00:05:16,440 Speaker 1: So that could be a medical person, a doctor in 93 00:05:16,480 --> 00:05:19,080 Speaker 1: there trying to get somewhere, yes, to help out. 94 00:05:19,040 --> 00:05:23,400 Speaker 2: And their ambulance of sorts. But absolutely the opportunity that 95 00:05:23,440 --> 00:05:26,560 Speaker 2: we're seeing with digital technology, with autonomy, with drones and 96 00:05:27,080 --> 00:05:30,160 Speaker 2: what still have been there that these would be uncrude, 97 00:05:30,400 --> 00:05:33,000 Speaker 2: so no people on board, and you can imagine we 98 00:05:33,000 --> 00:05:36,279 Speaker 2: could deliver very large payloads point to point. 99 00:05:36,720 --> 00:05:43,599 Speaker 1: Okay, stay with me, Adriana, we'll be back in a minute. 100 00:05:46,800 --> 00:05:51,640 Speaker 1: I'm speaking to Adriano di Pietro, CEO of amsl Ero. 101 00:05:53,000 --> 00:05:57,360 Speaker 1: You've had test flights. How close are we to reality 102 00:05:57,520 --> 00:06:00,880 Speaker 1: to this actually being a thing that someone can go 103 00:06:00,960 --> 00:06:01,719 Speaker 1: and spend money on? 104 00:06:02,680 --> 00:06:07,039 Speaker 2: So certainly out our timeline is twenty thirty for market 105 00:06:07,120 --> 00:06:09,680 Speaker 2: launch and commercial release, so in the next five years. 106 00:06:10,240 --> 00:06:12,400 Speaker 2: But what you'll see between now and then is a 107 00:06:12,440 --> 00:06:15,120 Speaker 2: series of testing programs that we will go through. So 108 00:06:15,160 --> 00:06:19,360 Speaker 2: we will be flying throughout those years on our certification. 109 00:06:19,560 --> 00:06:22,800 Speaker 2: You know, that's with CASSA here in Australia, our certification 110 00:06:22,920 --> 00:06:25,760 Speaker 2: pathway to get to market. So you know, we really 111 00:06:25,800 --> 00:06:28,479 Speaker 2: are closer than you think to seeing these regularly in 112 00:06:28,520 --> 00:06:30,760 Speaker 2: the skies as we do as we undertake that work. 113 00:06:31,360 --> 00:06:34,120 Speaker 2: There are others in the race, that's for sure, and 114 00:06:34,360 --> 00:06:36,480 Speaker 2: I think what you will start to see is a 115 00:06:36,600 --> 00:06:41,680 Speaker 2: surge in the activity around seeing advanced their mobility integrated 116 00:06:41,680 --> 00:06:42,880 Speaker 2: into transport systems. 117 00:06:42,960 --> 00:06:47,080 Speaker 1: Okay, so you're talking about Casasill Aviation Safety Authority. Are 118 00:06:47,120 --> 00:06:49,680 Speaker 1: they on top of the regulations on this? I mean, 119 00:06:49,760 --> 00:06:51,840 Speaker 1: are there certain rules around how high you can fly, 120 00:06:52,080 --> 00:06:53,720 Speaker 1: where you can fly, all that type of thing. 121 00:06:53,800 --> 00:06:55,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, really good question, and I would say I think 122 00:06:55,800 --> 00:06:58,839 Speaker 2: early on there certainly was an issue where technology was 123 00:06:58,920 --> 00:07:02,960 Speaker 2: leading regulation and that certainly we've had some early developers. 124 00:07:03,040 --> 00:07:06,280 Speaker 2: Jobi in the US is one. There's Archer, a vertical 125 00:07:06,320 --> 00:07:09,600 Speaker 2: in the UK where there was a journey that they 126 00:07:09,600 --> 00:07:12,800 Speaker 2: were on where the pathway wasn't defined that's no longer 127 00:07:12,800 --> 00:07:15,920 Speaker 2: the case. So CASSA has actually been very progressive throughout 128 00:07:15,960 --> 00:07:18,160 Speaker 2: the years and we've got a great relationship with them 129 00:07:18,600 --> 00:07:22,760 Speaker 2: as we've ventured down this path and just recently actually 130 00:07:22,840 --> 00:07:25,800 Speaker 2: KASSA was part of a five eyes development of a 131 00:07:25,800 --> 00:07:30,640 Speaker 2: harmonization strategy for what they call type certification, So how 132 00:07:30,640 --> 00:07:35,600 Speaker 2: do you certify this type of aircraft across Australia, the US, Canada, 133 00:07:35,680 --> 00:07:38,880 Speaker 2: New Zealand and Japan and the UK excuse me, And 134 00:07:38,880 --> 00:07:42,800 Speaker 2: so that was really that has opened up the international market. 135 00:07:42,920 --> 00:07:46,880 Speaker 2: We can now certify here in Australia with KASSA and 136 00:07:46,920 --> 00:07:50,880 Speaker 2: that journey of certification will be recognized by those other nations, 137 00:07:51,280 --> 00:07:53,160 Speaker 2: so rather than having to go there later and do 138 00:07:53,200 --> 00:07:56,400 Speaker 2: it all over again, it's opening up that international market 139 00:07:56,440 --> 00:07:59,720 Speaker 2: opportunity for US, and there is a road map in 140 00:07:59,800 --> 00:08:03,360 Speaker 2: place for the certification that you have to undertake. It'll 141 00:08:03,360 --> 00:08:05,520 Speaker 2: be the highest level of safety in the world, so 142 00:08:05,560 --> 00:08:09,360 Speaker 2: there'll be no drop. It'll be akin to commercial aviation 143 00:08:09,520 --> 00:08:12,080 Speaker 2: travel that the planes that you and I fly on 144 00:08:12,120 --> 00:08:15,400 Speaker 2: today to get around between cities. We will absolutely be 145 00:08:15,480 --> 00:08:18,240 Speaker 2: at that at that level, if not higher. So the 146 00:08:18,280 --> 00:08:20,200 Speaker 2: safest transport system in the world. 147 00:08:20,240 --> 00:08:22,560 Speaker 1: Okay, how much will that I mean, how much for 148 00:08:22,640 --> 00:08:23,119 Speaker 1: they cost? 149 00:08:23,560 --> 00:08:27,160 Speaker 2: So these aircraft will be akin to aircraft you see today, 150 00:08:27,240 --> 00:08:30,000 Speaker 2: but we're definitely cheaper, so cheaper than a helicopter is 151 00:08:30,040 --> 00:08:35,000 Speaker 2: today to both purchase and to operate, as well as 152 00:08:35,040 --> 00:08:40,120 Speaker 2: other comparable sized and let's call it specified aircraft. So 153 00:08:40,160 --> 00:08:42,720 Speaker 2: we've recently had an article that the AFI did for us, 154 00:08:42,720 --> 00:08:44,520 Speaker 2: in fact, where they talked to the price that we're 155 00:08:44,520 --> 00:08:47,760 Speaker 2: looking at four point six million per aircraft. But when 156 00:08:47,840 --> 00:08:49,720 Speaker 2: you look at that in the scheme of what a 157 00:08:49,720 --> 00:08:52,360 Speaker 2: helicopter costs to buy today, what you can do with 158 00:08:52,440 --> 00:08:55,600 Speaker 2: that where you can go the cost of operation of 159 00:08:55,640 --> 00:08:58,839 Speaker 2: our aircraft will be far cheaper. So in fact, overall, 160 00:08:59,120 --> 00:09:01,440 Speaker 2: you know, if you average the we're about fifty percent 161 00:09:01,800 --> 00:09:04,720 Speaker 2: the cost of purchase and operation of a helicopter, but 162 00:09:04,960 --> 00:09:08,199 Speaker 2: just on operation alone, seventy five percent less expensive. 163 00:09:08,640 --> 00:09:12,720 Speaker 1: Will you have to take off from airports or is 164 00:09:12,760 --> 00:09:17,080 Speaker 1: it the potential to take off from businesses or even homes? 165 00:09:17,240 --> 00:09:20,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, really good question, and that's a space that's progressing. 166 00:09:20,040 --> 00:09:22,920 Speaker 2: So the one thing that AMSL has a big advantage 167 00:09:22,920 --> 00:09:26,840 Speaker 2: in is that we're developing an aircraft today that can 168 00:09:26,880 --> 00:09:31,480 Speaker 2: integrate into our aviation ecosystem, so we can sell that 169 00:09:31,520 --> 00:09:34,800 Speaker 2: to customers, which we've already done with companies here in Australia. 170 00:09:35,720 --> 00:09:37,840 Speaker 2: When that aircraft is ready and on the market in 171 00:09:37,840 --> 00:09:40,160 Speaker 2: twenty thirty, they can fly that with the systems that 172 00:09:40,200 --> 00:09:44,040 Speaker 2: are in place today. What is happening in parallel, and 173 00:09:44,080 --> 00:09:47,240 Speaker 2: this is actually being led both by KASSA but also 174 00:09:47,360 --> 00:09:52,080 Speaker 2: other agencies within the government within industry, is the development 175 00:09:52,080 --> 00:09:54,680 Speaker 2: of what they call a new standard for verty ports. 176 00:09:55,400 --> 00:09:57,640 Speaker 2: So this is a next generation of what you might 177 00:09:57,800 --> 00:10:02,200 Speaker 2: consider a helly landing site would be or helicopter Notionally, 178 00:10:02,240 --> 00:10:06,560 Speaker 2: there's an opportunity that everyone sees that while it's great 179 00:10:06,559 --> 00:10:09,800 Speaker 2: that we can get to market today with the ecosystem airports, 180 00:10:09,840 --> 00:10:12,839 Speaker 2: helipads and the like, there is an opportunity with these 181 00:10:12,880 --> 00:10:15,959 Speaker 2: aircraft to do more and that's what the development around 182 00:10:15,960 --> 00:10:18,920 Speaker 2: the ground infrastructure with the verti ports is looking at. 183 00:10:19,400 --> 00:10:22,080 Speaker 1: So in a sense, this is just the beginning absolutely, 184 00:10:22,720 --> 00:10:24,600 Speaker 1: So where do we have in ten years time? 185 00:10:25,080 --> 00:10:28,840 Speaker 2: Look, I expect to see our aircraft absolutely integrated in 186 00:10:28,880 --> 00:10:31,600 Speaker 2: the transport system. Yeah, both for passenger but also for 187 00:10:31,679 --> 00:10:34,960 Speaker 2: cargo and even for some of these if I can 188 00:10:35,000 --> 00:10:40,440 Speaker 2: say these special use cases aeromedical, even defense applications and 189 00:10:40,480 --> 00:10:43,400 Speaker 2: the like. And so I would say you will absolutely 190 00:10:43,440 --> 00:10:47,080 Speaker 2: see our aircraft integrated within the transport system. And in 191 00:10:47,120 --> 00:10:52,240 Speaker 2: Australia that transport system aviation always already plays a massive role. 192 00:10:52,440 --> 00:10:55,120 Speaker 2: So for the regions in OZ where we don't have 193 00:10:55,200 --> 00:10:59,240 Speaker 2: highways and rail and that infrastructure in place, there are 194 00:10:59,280 --> 00:11:01,200 Speaker 2: a lot of people in regional laws that rely on 195 00:11:01,280 --> 00:11:05,080 Speaker 2: aviation to connect them with what we would consider today 196 00:11:05,120 --> 00:11:09,240 Speaker 2: in the city as essential services. And certainly we see 197 00:11:09,240 --> 00:11:11,600 Speaker 2: that as one of the first adopter markets within that 198 00:11:11,800 --> 00:11:15,320 Speaker 2: ten year horizon we believe will benefit the most. 199 00:11:15,480 --> 00:11:18,160 Speaker 1: I mean next, that raises the question range, how far? 200 00:11:18,800 --> 00:11:22,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, our aircraft will be one thousand kilometers range, and 201 00:11:22,240 --> 00:11:24,800 Speaker 2: that's one of our differentiators as well. So a lot 202 00:11:24,880 --> 00:11:28,320 Speaker 2: of the industry right now is actually looking at electric only, 203 00:11:28,559 --> 00:11:33,800 Speaker 2: so battery electric akin to our cars evs that at 204 00:11:33,840 --> 00:11:36,880 Speaker 2: the moment are only about the one hundred one hundred 205 00:11:36,880 --> 00:11:40,160 Speaker 2: and fifty kilometer range, and they're being used for what 206 00:11:40,200 --> 00:11:43,960 Speaker 2: they call urban air mobility, so short hop flights. You know, 207 00:11:44,000 --> 00:11:48,800 Speaker 2: if I could jumping over traffic jams looking at urban areas, 208 00:11:49,480 --> 00:11:53,400 Speaker 2: we've gone to long range from the start. So with 209 00:11:53,520 --> 00:11:55,680 Speaker 2: our first concept, we were looking at the long range 210 00:11:55,679 --> 00:11:59,800 Speaker 2: opportunity for the regions and so we see that that's 211 00:12:00,160 --> 00:12:03,080 Speaker 2: huge differentiator for us, but it also means that our 212 00:12:03,120 --> 00:12:07,679 Speaker 2: customers can use this aircraft more practically within the Australian context. 213 00:12:07,840 --> 00:12:10,000 Speaker 1: Adriana, thank you very much for talking to Fear and Greed. 214 00:12:10,160 --> 00:12:11,199 Speaker 2: Thank you for having me, Sean. 215 00:12:11,360 --> 00:12:16,120 Speaker 1: That was Adriana Di Pietro, CEO of amsl Ero. This 216 00:12:16,280 --> 00:12:18,480 Speaker 1: is the Fear and Greed Business Interview. Join us every 217 00:12:18,520 --> 00:12:21,000 Speaker 1: morning for the full episode of Fear and Greed Business 218 00:12:21,000 --> 00:12:25,160 Speaker 1: News You Can News. I'm Jane elmont Enjoy your day.