1 00:00:04,050 --> 00:00:06,449 Sean Aylmer: Welcome to the Fear and Greed daily interview. I'm Sean 2 00:00:06,690 --> 00:00:09,240 Sean Aylmer: Aylmer. It's that time of year again when the wealthiest people 3 00:00:09,240 --> 00:00:12,119 Sean Aylmer: in the country are identified and ranked whether they like 4 00:00:12,119 --> 00:00:15,300 Sean Aylmer: it or not. The List, Australia's Richest 250, has been 5 00:00:15,300 --> 00:00:18,690 Sean Aylmer: released by the Australian today, and as always, it makes 6 00:00:18,690 --> 00:00:21,689 Sean Aylmer: for some great reading. John Stensholt is the editor of 7 00:00:21,690 --> 00:00:24,209 Sean Aylmer: The List and my guest this morning. John, welcome back 8 00:00:24,210 --> 00:00:25,020 Sean Aylmer: to Fear and Greed. 9 00:00:25,200 --> 00:00:25,920 John Stensholt: Thank you, Sean. 10 00:00:26,579 --> 00:00:30,300 Sean Aylmer: Righto. Tell me it's not Gina. Is it Gina? 11 00:00:30,900 --> 00:00:31,650 John Stensholt: It's Gina. 12 00:00:32,040 --> 00:00:32,430 Sean Aylmer: Oh. 13 00:00:32,940 --> 00:00:34,050 John Stensholt: She's too successful. 14 00:00:34,650 --> 00:00:37,530 Sean Aylmer: She's too successful. So she comes in at number one, 15 00:00:37,530 --> 00:00:38,250 Sean Aylmer: what's she worth? 16 00:00:38,520 --> 00:00:41,880 John Stensholt: Yeah. She's worth about 37 billion, just a lazy 37 17 00:00:41,880 --> 00:00:44,760 John Stensholt: billion. So the iron ore boom keeps going for her. 18 00:00:44,760 --> 00:00:49,409 John Stensholt: She's making massive profits from iron ore and buying cattle 19 00:00:49,409 --> 00:00:51,330 John Stensholt: stations as well. She has a very good line of 20 00:00:51,360 --> 00:00:54,360 John Stensholt: Wagyu beef too, by the way. Around a couple hundred 21 00:00:54,360 --> 00:00:56,670 John Stensholt: restaurants in Australia, so yeah, she's doing very, very well. 22 00:00:56,670 --> 00:01:00,960 Sean Aylmer: Ah, righto. So if it's all about iron ore, presumably 23 00:01:00,960 --> 00:01:02,760 Sean Aylmer: Andrew Forrest is number two, what's he worth? 24 00:01:03,060 --> 00:01:06,390 John Stensholt: Yes, he's worth about 35 billion. So he has only 25 00:01:06,480 --> 00:01:10,709 John Stensholt: just missed out at number one this year. So it's 26 00:01:10,709 --> 00:01:15,330 John Stensholt: all about the Fortescue share price with him. And look, 27 00:01:15,330 --> 00:01:16,650 John Stensholt: it's a little bit more than last year, but it's 28 00:01:16,650 --> 00:01:20,850 John Stensholt: not quite enough to catch Gina. But they're both in 29 00:01:20,850 --> 00:01:23,340 John Stensholt: the same industry and they're both doing extremely well. 30 00:01:23,550 --> 00:01:25,560 Sean Aylmer: Okay. Has he ever actually caught Gina? 31 00:01:26,160 --> 00:01:29,100 John Stensholt: He has, yeah. I mean, look, the Fortescue share price 32 00:01:29,100 --> 00:01:32,730 John Stensholt: has gone up and down over years. I mean there 33 00:01:32,730 --> 00:01:35,880 John Stensholt: was a time pre or roughly the GFC time where 34 00:01:35,880 --> 00:01:40,140 John Stensholt: he was the richest person in Australia. During Fortescue's first 35 00:01:40,140 --> 00:01:43,410 John Stensholt: boom, I suppose, during another mining boom. You might remember 36 00:01:43,470 --> 00:01:45,869 John Stensholt: the mining Super Profits Tax and he was railing against 37 00:01:45,870 --> 00:01:50,400 John Stensholt: that along with Gina, and I guess, that's when he first became a really, 38 00:01:50,400 --> 00:01:52,980 John Stensholt: really big billionaire. But he's actually worth more then, than 39 00:01:52,980 --> 00:01:53,400 John Stensholt: he is now. 40 00:01:54,330 --> 00:01:57,360 Sean Aylmer: Okay, so who else is in the top 10, John? 41 00:01:57,990 --> 00:02:01,710 John Stensholt: So we've got Anthony Pratt, our cardboard box making magnate, 42 00:02:01,920 --> 00:02:06,570 John Stensholt: recycling. So number four, Harry Triguboff, just turned 90. 43 00:02:06,900 --> 00:02:09,960 Sean Aylmer: Now John, I seem to remember you are quite good 44 00:02:09,960 --> 00:02:12,840 Sean Aylmer: mates with Harry Triguboff. In fact, I've met Harry Triguboff 45 00:02:13,230 --> 00:02:16,080 Sean Aylmer: with you and a woman from the Australian called Lisa 46 00:02:16,080 --> 00:02:19,260 Sean Aylmer: Allen, and it was one of the funnier meetings I've 47 00:02:19,260 --> 00:02:20,970 Sean Aylmer: ever had, really. He loves you. 48 00:02:21,660 --> 00:02:24,840 John Stensholt: We both attended his 90th birthday party a couple of 49 00:02:24,840 --> 00:02:28,109 John Stensholt: weekends ago, Sean, actually. So yeah, we had a prominent 50 00:02:28,110 --> 00:02:31,680 John Stensholt: table next to Harry's on the stage and so on. And 51 00:02:32,370 --> 00:02:34,230 John Stensholt: the last I saw of Harry that night was he 52 00:02:34,230 --> 00:02:36,540 John Stensholt: was dancing the night away as a 90- year- old 53 00:02:36,690 --> 00:02:37,470 John Stensholt: on the dance floor. 54 00:02:37,530 --> 00:02:38,100 Sean Aylmer: Isn't that great? 55 00:02:38,100 --> 00:02:40,290 John Stensholt: With his wife Rhonda. So he's still going strong. And 56 00:02:40,290 --> 00:02:43,889 John Stensholt: in the magazine, actually, we have an interview with him 57 00:02:43,889 --> 00:02:48,270 John Stensholt: and Tim Gurner, another property magnate, a younger one, where 58 00:02:48,270 --> 00:02:51,450 John Stensholt: Harry talks about Tim as the future and he says, " 59 00:02:51,450 --> 00:02:55,139 John Stensholt: But I'm the present." So at number 90, he's still making 60 00:02:55,139 --> 00:02:55,860 John Stensholt: a lot of money. 61 00:02:56,520 --> 00:02:59,700 Sean Aylmer: Now, does he still... I remember the meeting with him, 62 00:02:59,700 --> 00:03:02,609 Sean Aylmer: and this was many, many years ago, John, but he had 63 00:03:02,610 --> 00:03:06,419 Sean Aylmer: this, it's kind of this massive ledger, which actually was 64 00:03:06,419 --> 00:03:09,210 Sean Aylmer: the rent that comes in every week or month, I 65 00:03:09,210 --> 00:03:11,610 Sean Aylmer: can't remember. And he used to take it home on 66 00:03:11,610 --> 00:03:13,800 Sean Aylmer: the weekends and just look through the rents that were 67 00:03:13,800 --> 00:03:16,049 Sean Aylmer: coming in and pick those who weren't paying. 68 00:03:16,650 --> 00:03:18,870 John Stensholt: It's not just the rents. It's quite famous. They call 69 00:03:18,870 --> 00:03:20,850 John Stensholt: it Harry's sheets. It's probably like a sort of 6 70 00:03:20,850 --> 00:03:23,730 John Stensholt: or 10 inch sort of wide bundle of sheets that 71 00:03:23,730 --> 00:03:25,260 John Stensholt: get sent home with him, as you say. They get 72 00:03:25,260 --> 00:03:27,930 John Stensholt: printed out. They get printed out still, on a Friday 73 00:03:27,930 --> 00:03:30,840 John Stensholt: afternoon and he spends Saturday morning poring over them, and 74 00:03:30,840 --> 00:03:35,970 John Stensholt: they contain all the figures for Meriton. So literally sales 75 00:03:35,970 --> 00:03:40,110 John Stensholt: in this area, outgoings, profits, losses, the rents, as you say, 76 00:03:40,380 --> 00:03:43,800 John Stensholt: the hotel bookings, all the numbers. I mean Harry, one 77 00:03:43,800 --> 00:03:46,020 John Stensholt: thing about Harry is, he may be 90, but he's 78 00:03:46,020 --> 00:03:49,740 John Stensholt: extremely numerate. His people once told me a story where 79 00:03:50,100 --> 00:03:52,560 John Stensholt: he's got a mobile phone. Now look, as many people 80 00:03:52,560 --> 00:03:54,960 John Stensholt: his age, he's not very great at using it, but 81 00:03:54,960 --> 00:03:58,740 John Stensholt: he didn't want people's phone numbers programmed in there because 82 00:03:58,740 --> 00:04:01,290 John Stensholt: he remembers the numbers off by heart. I don't think 83 00:04:01,290 --> 00:04:01,921 John Stensholt: anyone else in the world is like that. 84 00:04:01,921 --> 00:04:08,730 Sean Aylmer: Wow, that is great. We digress. So Harry Triguboff at number four worth about 23, 24 billion. Just 85 00:04:08,730 --> 00:04:11,371 Sean Aylmer: who else is in the top 10? 86 00:04:11,371 --> 00:04:15,420 John Stensholt: So we've got Clive Palmer, 20.4 billion, at number five. So again, the mining royalties. 87 00:04:15,810 --> 00:04:18,510 John Stensholt: Then a couple of tech gurus, Mike Cannon- Brookes and 88 00:04:18,510 --> 00:04:22,410 John Stensholt: Scott Farquhar, six and seven. Now they're roughly, Mike's just 89 00:04:22,410 --> 00:04:25,770 John Stensholt: above 16 billion and Scott's just below 16 billion. It's 90 00:04:25,770 --> 00:04:29,340 John Stensholt: probably because Mike's got more Sydney prestige property. Ivan Glasenberg, 91 00:04:29,640 --> 00:04:33,239 John Stensholt: who's a South African born, Switzerland resident, Australian citizen, he's 92 00:04:33,240 --> 00:04:37,229 John Stensholt: number eight, the Glencore boss. About 12, 12 and a half billion. And then 93 00:04:37,230 --> 00:04:40,980 John Stensholt: nine and 10, some more technology there, Cliff Obrecht, Melanie 94 00:04:40,980 --> 00:04:45,750 John Stensholt: Perkins of Canva. So well, they're about 10.4 billion this year. 95 00:04:46,320 --> 00:04:48,810 John Stensholt: And as you may want to discuss, they're one of 96 00:04:48,810 --> 00:04:50,970 John Stensholt: the people that have dropped a fair bit of fortune 97 00:04:50,970 --> 00:04:51,810 John Stensholt: just this year. 98 00:04:52,500 --> 00:04:55,410 Sean Aylmer: So let's use them as an example. What has been 99 00:04:55,410 --> 00:04:59,040 Sean Aylmer: the shift in terms of sectors, how the iron ore 100 00:04:59,040 --> 00:05:01,529 Sean Aylmer: guys obviously have done pretty well? What about the property 101 00:05:01,529 --> 00:05:04,169 Sean Aylmer: guys? What about the tech barons, what about the manufacturers? 102 00:05:04,560 --> 00:05:06,510 Sean Aylmer: Not just the top 10, but across the list. 103 00:05:06,600 --> 00:05:08,430 John Stensholt: Well, technology, even if you count the four that we've 104 00:05:08,430 --> 00:05:10,260 John Stensholt: just talked about on the top 10 there, the two 105 00:05:10,290 --> 00:05:14,159 John Stensholt: Atlassian co- founders and the two Canva co- founders, between the four 106 00:05:14,160 --> 00:05:17,400 John Stensholt: of them may have dropped 25 billion this year from 107 00:05:17,400 --> 00:05:20,880 John Stensholt: their paper fortune. So that is a barometer of what's 108 00:05:20,880 --> 00:05:24,510 John Stensholt: happened to tech, the technology industry, tech share prices on 109 00:05:24,510 --> 00:05:28,620 John Stensholt: the Nasdaq, valuations of private companies like Canva as well. 110 00:05:28,740 --> 00:05:31,680 John Stensholt: So yeah, in the last few years, saw the rise and 111 00:05:31,680 --> 00:05:35,490 John Stensholt: rise of the tech barons, they've become such a part 112 00:05:35,490 --> 00:05:38,400 John Stensholt: of, I guess, modern society in terms of the altruism 113 00:05:38,400 --> 00:05:41,640 John Stensholt: and the sort of green technology push that they're also 114 00:05:41,640 --> 00:05:45,180 John Stensholt: doing outside of their day jobs. But they've lost a 115 00:05:45,180 --> 00:05:48,300 John Stensholt: lot of money this year. The tech downturn, with the 116 00:05:48,300 --> 00:05:50,550 John Stensholt: crypto winter, as it's been called as well, it's a 117 00:05:50,550 --> 00:05:53,130 John Stensholt: sort of adjacency. So that's gone down and what we're 118 00:05:53,130 --> 00:05:54,930 John Stensholt: seeing is a bit of a rise of some old- 119 00:05:54,930 --> 00:05:58,919 John Stensholt: fashioned industries, I suppose, like manufacturing, mining, property, they've done 120 00:05:58,920 --> 00:06:01,770 John Stensholt: pretty well. So you talk about someone like an Anthony 121 00:06:01,770 --> 00:06:04,920 John Stensholt: Pratt. His profits have held up because he keeps building 122 00:06:05,220 --> 00:06:08,970 John Stensholt: cardboard box making facilities across America. So look, some of 123 00:06:08,970 --> 00:06:12,870 John Stensholt: these old- fashioned industries are suddenly back in fashion because 124 00:06:12,870 --> 00:06:15,690 John Stensholt: you know what? They actually make profits and that counts 125 00:06:15,690 --> 00:06:16,229 John Stensholt: for something. 126 00:06:16,860 --> 00:06:18,270 Sean Aylmer: Stay with me, John, we'll be back in a minute. 127 00:06:25,380 --> 00:06:28,830 Sean Aylmer: My guest this morning is John Stensholt, editor of The List, Australia's 128 00:06:28,890 --> 00:06:33,630 Sean Aylmer: Richest 250. John, when you put the list together... John 129 00:06:33,630 --> 00:06:35,609 Sean Aylmer: and I worked together many years ago, John was the 130 00:06:35,610 --> 00:06:38,580 Sean Aylmer: editor of The List when it was another guy's and 131 00:06:38,850 --> 00:06:43,770 Sean Aylmer: I worked for John... What's it like? Do these people, Gina, 132 00:06:43,770 --> 00:06:48,480 Sean Aylmer: Andrew Forrest, the Pratts, Triguboff, the Atlassian boys, et cetera, do they 133 00:06:48,480 --> 00:06:51,450 Sean Aylmer: actually talk to you? Do you ring them and say, " Hey, 134 00:06:51,600 --> 00:06:53,820 Sean Aylmer: Mike Cannon- Brookes, by the way, I reckon that you're 135 00:06:53,820 --> 00:06:56,250 Sean Aylmer: worth about 16 billion dollars, what do you reckon?" Is 136 00:06:56,250 --> 00:06:56,880 Sean Aylmer: that how it works? 137 00:06:57,029 --> 00:06:59,219 John Stensholt: Absolutely. So The List try to reach out. Now, some 138 00:06:59,220 --> 00:07:01,500 John Stensholt: of them don't want to chat, but I think they're 139 00:07:01,500 --> 00:07:03,900 John Stensholt: in the minority. So there's a lot of the people 140 00:07:03,900 --> 00:07:07,380 John Stensholt: on the list that do speak to me confidentially more 141 00:07:07,380 --> 00:07:10,140 John Stensholt: than anyone would realise. I reckon probably, say four out of five, 142 00:07:10,140 --> 00:07:12,900 John Stensholt: maybe 80% of the list do engage. Some of it's 143 00:07:12,900 --> 00:07:15,300 John Stensholt: just a, " Look, thank you very much. Thanks for letting 144 00:07:15,300 --> 00:07:19,170 John Stensholt: me know." Certainly, this year, I've had discussions with people 145 00:07:19,170 --> 00:07:23,970 John Stensholt: where they've said, " Oh, actually, my profit valuation is a 146 00:07:23,970 --> 00:07:26,010 John Stensholt: bit more." Like the profit multiple that I might use 147 00:07:26,010 --> 00:07:28,860 John Stensholt: for a private company. " No, I've valued it on a year on eight 148 00:07:28,860 --> 00:07:31,140 John Stensholt: times earnings. And actually I think it's probably about 12 149 00:07:31,140 --> 00:07:33,480 John Stensholt: times earnings because that's the multiple that we use in 150 00:07:33,480 --> 00:07:36,690 John Stensholt: the industry," which obviously makes them wealthier on paper. " What 151 00:07:36,690 --> 00:07:39,150 John Stensholt: about the building that I own as well, that's worth 152 00:07:39,180 --> 00:07:42,720 John Stensholt: 50 million? You need to include that." So, yeah, I definitely 153 00:07:42,720 --> 00:07:45,570 John Stensholt: get a lot of feedback. I do have a crazy 154 00:07:45,570 --> 00:07:48,060 John Stensholt: couple of weeks, towards the end of the process, where 155 00:07:48,060 --> 00:07:51,060 John Stensholt: I'm calling and calling. I end up, I suppose, having 156 00:07:51,060 --> 00:07:53,970 John Stensholt: these bizarre conversations with billionaires sort of where I say, " 157 00:07:53,970 --> 00:07:58,350 John Stensholt: I think you're worth say 1. 25 billion." And he'll say, or, 158 00:07:58,350 --> 00:08:00,840 John Stensholt: she will say, " No, I think I'm worth 1. 43." And 159 00:08:00,840 --> 00:08:04,200 John Stensholt: I'll say, " Okay, fine. That's good." I mean, it's good 160 00:08:04,200 --> 00:08:05,940 John Stensholt: to actually hear that, I suppose, but it is a 161 00:08:05,940 --> 00:08:07,020 John Stensholt: bit weird when you think about it. 162 00:08:07,380 --> 00:08:11,310 Sean Aylmer: Yeah, and do people... I remember you once saying that the 163 00:08:11,310 --> 00:08:14,160 Sean Aylmer: thing they like less than being on the list is 164 00:08:14,160 --> 00:08:16,410 Sean Aylmer: falling off the list. Is that still the case? 165 00:08:16,470 --> 00:08:19,560 John Stensholt: Oh, clearly, yeah. I mean, as strange as it sounds, 166 00:08:19,560 --> 00:08:22,890 John Stensholt: there is some sort of caché with being amongst the wealthier, 167 00:08:22,890 --> 00:08:25,380 John Stensholt: most powerful people in the country. I mean, Anthony Pratt 168 00:08:25,650 --> 00:08:28,230 John Stensholt: has topped this list before, and he's talked about it to 169 00:08:28,230 --> 00:08:32,010 John Stensholt: me and in articles that I've written, about being number 170 00:08:32,010 --> 00:08:34,260 John Stensholt: one or being close to number one, does open doors 171 00:08:34,260 --> 00:08:38,220 John Stensholt: with politicians or other business people. It does give you some 172 00:08:38,220 --> 00:08:42,059 John Stensholt: sort of caché or prestige, as strange as it might 173 00:08:42,059 --> 00:08:45,420 John Stensholt: sound, and it does certainly help with customers as well. I 174 00:08:45,420 --> 00:08:47,850 John Stensholt: had someone who didn't talk to me much last year 175 00:08:48,120 --> 00:08:50,849 John Stensholt: that I had a valuation at a certain number. This year, 176 00:08:50,850 --> 00:08:53,190 John Stensholt: they called me back and said, " Oh look, our customers 177 00:08:53,190 --> 00:08:57,600 John Stensholt: were asking about the number because they said, 'Hmm, you're actually 178 00:08:57,600 --> 00:09:00,570 John Stensholt: smaller than we think you are, as a B2B sort 179 00:09:00,570 --> 00:09:04,200 John Stensholt: of concern, business to business.'" And so they've adjusted their 180 00:09:04,800 --> 00:09:07,260 John Stensholt: valuation accordingly just because that they know it has some 181 00:09:07,260 --> 00:09:11,400 John Stensholt: sort of public profile. So yeah, definitely interesting insight into 182 00:09:11,400 --> 00:09:12,000 John Stensholt: their minds. 183 00:09:13,080 --> 00:09:14,880 Sean Aylmer: A couple of pertinent names that used to be on 184 00:09:14,880 --> 00:09:16,829 Sean Aylmer: this list, and this is many years ago that aren't, 185 00:09:16,830 --> 00:09:18,329 Sean Aylmer: well, at least not on the top 10, I'm sure 186 00:09:18,330 --> 00:09:21,630 Sean Aylmer: they're on the list. Packer, being one name, Murdoch, being 187 00:09:21,630 --> 00:09:24,240 Sean Aylmer: another name. They're still on the list, just not as 188 00:09:24,240 --> 00:09:25,050 Sean Aylmer: high, is that right? 189 00:09:25,380 --> 00:09:27,990 John Stensholt: Yeah, James Packer's still definitely on the list and look, 190 00:09:28,860 --> 00:09:30,809 John Stensholt: some of the wealth got split to his sister Gretel 191 00:09:30,809 --> 00:09:33,059 John Stensholt: as well. She's on the list, they're both billionaires. James 192 00:09:33,059 --> 00:09:36,660 John Stensholt: is roughly sort of 3.5, 3. 6 billion now. Remember he sold 193 00:09:36,660 --> 00:09:41,010 John Stensholt: out of Crown Casino finally last year. Some tax implications 194 00:09:41,010 --> 00:09:43,050 John Stensholt: with that as well. Look, his wealth has certainly fallen 195 00:09:43,050 --> 00:09:46,559 John Stensholt: on paper in recent years. I mean, I don't think he's struggling 196 00:09:46,559 --> 00:09:48,750 John Stensholt: at the moment. He just took his huge super yacht 197 00:09:48,750 --> 00:09:51,959 John Stensholt: to Saudi Arabia for the recent Grand Prix there, so 198 00:09:51,960 --> 00:09:54,150 John Stensholt: he's going all right. Yeah, he's definitely still on the 199 00:09:54,150 --> 00:09:57,480 John Stensholt: list. Lachlan Murdoch, who's, obviously, boss of ours here at 200 00:09:57,480 --> 00:09:59,820 John Stensholt: News Corp. He's definitely on the list. And yes, we 201 00:09:59,820 --> 00:10:02,520 John Stensholt: do check these valuations with all these people that you 202 00:10:02,520 --> 00:10:06,210 John Stensholt: do mention. So yeah, absolutely. Look, there's still, you're right, 203 00:10:06,240 --> 00:10:09,720 John Stensholt: big powerful, older, generational names, but I think the beauty 204 00:10:09,720 --> 00:10:11,340 John Stensholt: of this list is when you bring new names on 205 00:10:11,340 --> 00:10:15,689 John Stensholt: it, and that just shows how the economy and how modern society 206 00:10:15,690 --> 00:10:18,750 John Stensholt: changes along the lines with how the list changes too. 207 00:10:19,679 --> 00:10:23,640 Sean Aylmer: So the full list is out Friday. With the 250, 208 00:10:23,640 --> 00:10:25,770 Sean Aylmer: is there much of a change this year? I mean 209 00:10:25,770 --> 00:10:28,290 Sean Aylmer: the top 10 are fairly similar, but is there much 210 00:10:28,290 --> 00:10:31,290 Sean Aylmer: of a change through the list versus last year? 211 00:10:31,440 --> 00:10:34,650 John Stensholt: Yeah, I tend to generally average about 20 odd new 212 00:10:34,650 --> 00:10:37,380 John Stensholt: names every year. I think this year I've got about 16 213 00:10:37,380 --> 00:10:39,900 John Stensholt: or so, and there's a lot of people that just 214 00:10:39,900 --> 00:10:42,030 John Stensholt: missed that list as well. Right. I mean, I've probably, 215 00:10:42,270 --> 00:10:44,309 John Stensholt: if I made it a... Well, I mean, I don't really want 216 00:10:44,309 --> 00:10:46,559 John Stensholt: to make too much work for myself, but I've made it a top 300, 217 00:10:46,559 --> 00:10:48,809 John Stensholt: there'd be all sorts of new really interesting people. They'd 218 00:10:48,809 --> 00:10:51,420 John Stensholt: just come just below that cutoff. But yeah, so we got 219 00:10:51,480 --> 00:10:54,360 John Stensholt: a crypto gambling billionaire, Ed Craven, who's on the list 220 00:10:54,360 --> 00:10:56,550 John Stensholt: for the first time. He's 27 years old and he's 221 00:10:56,550 --> 00:11:00,510 John Stensholt: worth about 2. 01 billion. We've got the Penrite founders, which 222 00:11:00,510 --> 00:11:04,770 John Stensholt: is an old Australian family business. They're making big profits. 223 00:11:05,040 --> 00:11:06,959 John Stensholt: There's female retailers that have come onto the list for 224 00:11:06,960 --> 00:11:09,390 John Stensholt: the first time. The Zimmerman sisters, who're a massive name 225 00:11:09,390 --> 00:11:12,390 John Stensholt: in fashion. They are such a really, really good business 226 00:11:12,390 --> 00:11:14,460 John Stensholt: that's been exploring around the world. So I think that's 227 00:11:14,460 --> 00:11:16,920 John Stensholt: the really interesting part. So the new names just show 228 00:11:16,920 --> 00:11:20,699 John Stensholt: you how business is changing in Australia, how society is 229 00:11:20,700 --> 00:11:24,630 John Stensholt: changing along with that, and consumption habits or spending habits 230 00:11:24,630 --> 00:11:28,140 John Stensholt: and all these sort of other economic signposts that the 231 00:11:28,140 --> 00:11:28,829 John Stensholt: list can show. 232 00:11:29,730 --> 00:11:31,440 Sean Aylmer: How long have you been putting this list together in 233 00:11:31,440 --> 00:11:32,400 Sean Aylmer: one form or another? 234 00:11:32,880 --> 00:11:35,609 John Stensholt: The first one, Sean, I think that was in your 235 00:11:35,610 --> 00:11:39,000 John Stensholt: younger days in around 2008. So that might date both 236 00:11:39,000 --> 00:11:40,860 John Stensholt: of us. That's been 15 years now. Goodness me. 237 00:11:41,460 --> 00:11:43,800 Sean Aylmer: Wow. And you're really, really good at it. John, thank 238 00:11:43,800 --> 00:11:45,030 Sean Aylmer: you for talking to Fear and Greed. 239 00:11:45,179 --> 00:11:45,630 John Stensholt: Thanks, Sean. 240 00:11:46,290 --> 00:11:49,290 Sean Aylmer: That was John Stensholt, editor of The List, Australia's Richest 241 00:11:49,350 --> 00:11:53,520 Sean Aylmer: 250. The full list, of course, is out tomorrow. This 242 00:11:53,520 --> 00:11:55,559 Sean Aylmer: is the Fear and Greed daily interview. Join us every 243 00:11:55,559 --> 00:11:57,809 Sean Aylmer: morning for the full episode of Fear and Greed, Australia's 244 00:11:57,809 --> 00:12:01,290 Sean Aylmer: most popular business podcast. I'm Sean Aylmer. Enjoy your day.