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Speaker 1: Professor Matthew kindon Welcome to Project one hundred again made

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Speaker 1: and we probably run this on straight Talk as well,

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Speaker 1: if you don't mind, because I think there's a lot

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Speaker 1: of people who are in the straight talk audience who'd

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Speaker 1: like to hear what Project one hundred has got to

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Speaker 1: say about this, So appreciate your time.

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Speaker 2: No, thanks very much, Mark, and I really appreciate what

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Speaker 2: you're doing for the community to raise awareness of brain health.

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Speaker 1: Mental health. It's a huge topic and I was shocked

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Speaker 1: when I became aware that the broad umbrella of dementia

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Speaker 1: today is the number one cause of death in Australia

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Speaker 1: and so therefore it's overtaken heart or coronary attacks or

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Speaker 1: heart attacks or yeah, heart failure. First question to you

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Speaker 1: is is that just simply a result of us living

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Speaker 1: longer and therefore if we got through cancer and heart

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Speaker 1: problems that eventually our brain's going to get us. Is

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Speaker 1: that just that reason or you seeing younger people getting

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Speaker 1: it now?

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Speaker 2: Well, I think it's a combination of both of those factors.

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Speaker 2: But really, you know, as a doctor, when I was

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Speaker 2: a junior doctor, cardiovascular health was the key focus and

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Speaker 2: you know there was bypass surgery and people having heart attacks,

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Speaker 2: and it was the number one and so understandably, you know,

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Speaker 2: politicians in the community put a focus on trying to

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Speaker 2: understand the condition and treat it. And I think that's

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Speaker 2: really the gold standard to understand that, you know, heart

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Speaker 2: heart health and heart disease. You have to look after

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Speaker 2: vascular health, stop smoking, understand the risk factors cholesterol, blood pressure,

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Speaker 2: blood sugar levels. And it was with that understanding and

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Speaker 2: then some therapies coming through, and I think, you know,

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Speaker 2: everyone would accept that the statin evolution has changed cardiovascular health.

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Speaker 2: And then our buyer marker so understanding that we can

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Speaker 2: treat against cholesterol, and gradually you started to see cardiovascular

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Speaker 2: deaths going down. In my fields. In neurology, stroke was

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Speaker 2: always going up every single year, higher and higher and higher.

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Speaker 2: And then eventually they did an epidemiological study and they

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Speaker 2: saw that stroke was dropping. And the neurologists didn't actually

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Speaker 2: believe it, like, how could this be the case? They

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Speaker 2: repeated the study and sure enough, stroke was actually dropping.

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Speaker 2: And it's because we've learned from the vascular health approaches

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Speaker 2: from cardiologists and heart physicians and the same thing has happened.

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Speaker 2: So while that's been happening. And then obviously all the

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Speaker 2: great advances in cancer because of molecular biology, understanding genetics,

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Speaker 2: the human the whole human genome, all of these things

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Speaker 2: that are getting well understood, and no one has really

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Speaker 2: focused on inverticomus dementia. And I suppose as a community,

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Speaker 2: we've often thought that it's an elderly people's condition and

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Speaker 2: we didn't really care about it. And you know, okay,

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Speaker 2: if we end up a bit demented in a nursing hame,

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Speaker 2: that's the cost of living. But really what's happened alarmingly

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Speaker 2: is it's really come to the fore and we're seeing

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Speaker 2: there's a huge amounts of dementia and neuroady generation. And

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Speaker 2: in fact, this geographical region, the Western Pacific, carries three fifths,

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Speaker 2: so sixty percent of the world burden. What Yeah, and

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Speaker 2: it's going to be a massive cost, you.

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Speaker 1: Know about the budget. What is that?

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Speaker 2: Well, I think it's it's an unusual sort of racial mix.

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Speaker 2: But we've got you know, obviously a lot of Asian populations.

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Speaker 2: We've got South Pacific islanders, Obviously we've got the Anglos

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Speaker 2: from Western Europe. But it's a huge population. Firstly, and

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Speaker 2: they're prone to vascular, particularly related neuro problems, dementia, vascular

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Speaker 2: dementia in particular. And also I suppose there's a lot

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Speaker 2: of underdeveloped regions. So if we think about our neighboring countries,

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Speaker 2: you know, we've been very lucky, and Australia is lucky,

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Speaker 2: and there's Japan in Korea, but then it's mixed with

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Speaker 2: you know, great poverty. Thailand, Myanmar, Burma, Thaile, you know,

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Speaker 2: Indonesia all had huge populations. So the focus globally is

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Speaker 2: to try and fix up the Western Pacific and then

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Speaker 2: take some of the learnings from the Western Pacific and

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Speaker 2: do refinements, particularly in Western Europe and North America. So

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Speaker 2: as a neurologist, obviously I'm a bit prejudiced. I'm glad

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Speaker 2: there's a focus on brain health because it's really going

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Speaker 2: to be an evolution. And in fact, the reason I

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Speaker 2: did get into neurology was, you know, George bush Seni,

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Speaker 2: you're saying that the nineties were the decade of the brain,

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Speaker 2: and the brain has been left behind a little bit,

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Speaker 2: and now we're starting to understand these conditions and we're

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Speaker 2: going to be like the cardiologists of the nineties. We're

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Speaker 2: going to understand risk factors, we're going to be titrading

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Speaker 2: blood bier markers, We've got effective therapies and it's going

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Speaker 2: to be totally transformational. The joke about neurologists were they're

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Speaker 2: really good at making a diagnosis, but they don't do

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Speaker 2: any treatment. To go to the neurologists to get your

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Speaker 2: diagnosis and prepare you will, that was that's the prejudice

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Speaker 2: against us, poor old neurologists. But dare I say it.

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Speaker 2: We're going to a therapeutic era and it's really exciting.

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Speaker 1: And part of that, of course, is in your role

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Speaker 1: as Sea of Newer any Ura at UNSW or across

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Speaker 1: the road from the English horse Stable studying whatever it is.

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Speaker 1: But now Newer is as I understand it as, or

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Speaker 1: re Call is a joint venture between USW and the

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Speaker 1: Prince Well' Hospital. Is that right?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so the Southeastern Sydney Local Health District and that

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Speaker 2: includes Prince of Wales, Saint George and Sutherlands. So and

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Speaker 2: it's a new initiative, but it's pretty big. I mean,

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Speaker 2: you've got a big premises of being any premises are

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Speaker 2: huge or brand new. How many people've got in your

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Speaker 2: ANEW about five hundred and fifty researchers focusing on brain

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Speaker 2: health and mental health. It's amazing and encourage everyone to

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Speaker 2: come out and visit like you've done, and we're very

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Speaker 2: keen to have, you know, really greater community involvement and connection.

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Speaker 1: Is that the biggest undertaking in the country. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: would say it is.

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Speaker 2: The other sort of big centers around Australia will be

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Speaker 2: the Flory in Melbourne, there's the Queensland Brain Institute in Brisbane,

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Speaker 2: and there's the Parent Institute in Perth, but I think

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Speaker 2: they're the biggest entities, so only.

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Speaker 1: The biggest one in Sydney there, yeah, yeah. And does

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Speaker 1: government support it.

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Speaker 2: Well, of course the government does support it. But times

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Speaker 2: are tough and I suppose neuro was established on grand

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Speaker 2: funding so National Health and Medical Research Council, so NHMRC

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Speaker 2: and AARC Australian Research Council have been very very successful

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Speaker 2: in grants.

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Speaker 1: Do you have to apply for those grants?

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Speaker 2: And at present now the success rate for grants is

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Speaker 2: about eight to ten percent and the funding has really

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Speaker 2: taken a battering and I was actually pleased in the

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Speaker 2: budget to see an extra five hundred and eight million

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Speaker 2: coming towards medical research. And that had been driven by

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Speaker 2: a campaign through medical research institutes, but also great advocates

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Speaker 2: like Monique Ryan who'd been pushing for or to try

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Speaker 2: and get the MRFF amount fully released. But now with

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Speaker 2: you know, lowering government grants support, researchers have to reach

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Speaker 2: out more to the community and what are the best

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Speaker 2: what are the most successful ways? Well, the most successful

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Speaker 2: way to fund your research program is have an industry partner.

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Speaker 2: An industry you know they need to make money. For example, well,

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Speaker 2: I need any any farmer company, right. So examples that

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Speaker 2: we're working with very closely include Roach Diagnostics based in Switzerland,

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Speaker 2: ELI Lily or Lily Farmer the United States. They're they're

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Speaker 2: they're key tever are key partners for us to drive

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Speaker 2: our research programs. But the beauty about having an industry

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Speaker 2: partner is you're more likely to have what we call

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Speaker 2: impact and translations. In other words, your discoveries are going

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Speaker 2: to make it out to the patient, to the clinic.

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Speaker 2: And that's why the health district and the university are

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Speaker 2: engaged because they want to see better health outcomes. So

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Speaker 2: you're much more likely to get that if you have

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Speaker 2: an industry partner. Now, the other key way that Newer

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Speaker 2: has been surviving has been the support of the community.

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Speaker 2: And we've been very lucky to have fantastic philanthropic support

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Speaker 2: and the individuals who funded whole programs and developments of

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Speaker 2: the building. Margaret Ainsworth is responsible for the main building

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Speaker 2: at Nearer. But I think we're starting to see that

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Speaker 2: the community is investing in research with the desire to

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Speaker 2: have better health outcomes, and it's really it's great to see.

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Speaker 1: So let's just you measure vascular dementia and maybe you

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Speaker 1: could explain what is vascular dementia.

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Speaker 2: So vascular relates to the blood vessels, and dementia generally

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Speaker 2: means problems with memory and cognition. And the brain is

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Speaker 2: made up of nerves neurons that have has lining on it,

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Speaker 2: and the lining of the myeline is supplied the lining,

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Speaker 2: which is called myelin, is built through cholesterol and apo

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Speaker 2: lipoproteins and all of those sort of biochemical processes. But

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Speaker 2: it needs a vascular supply, It needs a blood. It

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Speaker 2: needs a blood.

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Speaker 1: So maybe we're just just for audience. Those things that

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Speaker 1: you just mentioned, Yeah, they're all fats, they're all flippers.

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Speaker 1: Fat's produced by our liver, so we're producing that.

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Speaker 2: We're endogenously so inside our body, yes, we are producing it.

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Speaker 2: And I think the other thing to say is the

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Speaker 2: brain is a network, so all of the brain is working,

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Speaker 2: communicating with itself all the time. We used to think that,

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Speaker 2: you know, one part of the brain might be memory,

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Speaker 2: one part of the brain might be vision. But that

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Speaker 2: was because we studied neurology on the basis of a

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Speaker 2: deficit like a stroke or an injury. In fact, okay,

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Speaker 2: a lot of the neurology understanding came from major wars,

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Speaker 2: so particularly World War One, bullet wounds in the back

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Speaker 2: of the head, people to understand that's the cerebellum, and

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Speaker 2: so it was looking at deficits. And one of the

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Speaker 2: great neurologists is a go called Charles Miller Fisher, and

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Speaker 2: he's said, you learn neurology stroke by stroke. So you

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Speaker 2: see a patient with a stroke, you see what part

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Speaker 2: of the brain is affected, and then you see what

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Speaker 2: the manifestation is that and then that's your understanding. But

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Speaker 2: now we see the brain more as a network. So

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Speaker 2: all of these parts of the brain are communicating through

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Speaker 2: these nerve fibers, and when the blood supply is affected,

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Speaker 2: they start not working as well as they should, so

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Speaker 2: the speed of the signal getting through is less. Sometimes

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Speaker 2: they die, so little parts of little holes start developing

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Speaker 2: small strokes, microstrokes at a very molecular level, So you

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Speaker 2: wouldn't see it if you had the brain in front

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Speaker 2: of you, but you put it under a microscope, you'd

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Speaker 2: see it.

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Speaker 1: And you probably can't detect it either while someone's alive.

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Speaker 2: Unless there's a certain amount happening, like a volume. It's

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Speaker 2: a volume effect, So we start to see it with

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Speaker 2: their MARI scans, but by that stage it's more often

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Speaker 2: than not more severe. So right at the beginning, and

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Speaker 2: that's the trouble, we don't know when this begins, so

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Speaker 2: it could be beginning twenty or thirty years before the

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Speaker 2: patient manifests any symptoms.

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Speaker 1: And what causes this blood supply problem? Like in other words,

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Speaker 1: I presume what we talk about is a reduction of

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Speaker 1: the blood to blow reduction of blood.

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Speaker 2: Supply, and it's really been driven the understanding through vascular researchers,

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Speaker 2: so cardiovascular hell, so understanding that the wall of the

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Speaker 2: blood vessel gets thicker, the sort of the lumen or

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Speaker 2: the hole in the middle gets smaller, less blood gets

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Speaker 2: out there. Sometimes the vessel actually breaks apart a little bit,

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Speaker 2: a bit of ooze, and you know, blood and proteins

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Speaker 2: escape into the brain. That's the process, and if that happens,

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Speaker 2: you know in general areas. Interestingly, one of the sort

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Speaker 2: of the key problems that you see is people start

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Speaker 2: falling over and everyone thinks, oh, falls are normal. No,

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Speaker 2: if you have a fall, that's abnormal. I mean, obviously

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Speaker 2: you have a fall you're running and your chip on

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Speaker 2: a gutter, that's understore. But if you're walking around the

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Speaker 2: house and you fall over, you're on the street, you

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Speaker 2: fall over, that's abnormal. You legs give away, Yeah, your

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Speaker 2: legs give away, or your balance is affected and you

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Speaker 2: fall over. That's often the beginning of understanding that someone

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Speaker 2: may be suffering from a vascular brain process. So falls

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Speaker 2: are very much characteristically linked. The other thing is obviously

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Speaker 2: your cognition. So family members notice that maybe you're not

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Speaker 2: as sharp as you were. You seem to be forgetting

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Speaker 2: things you might be I mean, sometimes, for instance, you

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Speaker 2: might drive the car home and you know, hit the

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Speaker 2: side of the car and the garage. You might not

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Speaker 2: even mention you've done it. You know, another family member

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Speaker 2: notices that there's a dent in the car.

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Speaker 1: How did that happen? So it's the.

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Speaker 2: Behavior and the fine tuning of motor function or brain

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Speaker 2: function is being affected. And it's usually often the family members,

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Speaker 2: people in the house, children, partners who notice and they

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Speaker 2: try and encourage a medical review because.

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Speaker 1: I remember when I come saw you just getting a

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Speaker 1: check up, and you may be do some physical moments

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Speaker 1: like walking and standing on one foot, and then you

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Speaker 1: sent me off to get an older center or adoptler.

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Speaker 1: I think you caught it on my crodod arteries. So

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Speaker 1: why would someone when would a doctor tell someone to

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Speaker 1: get that? And why would someone get that? What were those?

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Speaker 1: And those especially those tests we want to see my

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Speaker 1: old school physician tests. I remember I used to get that.

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Speaker 1: My doctor when I was a kid used to do that,

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Speaker 1: but doctor since then stopped doing it. What are you

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Speaker 1: looking for when you do those very fundamental tests?

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Speaker 2: So it's about motor function. So we're seeing how someone walks,

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Speaker 2: we're seeing their gate, we're seeing their gate length, and

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Speaker 2: then part of that is what we call tandem walking.

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Speaker 2: So the police stole our tests. This is a neurology test,

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Speaker 2: but doing heel in front of the toe in a

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Speaker 2: straight line, and these are markers for things like vascular dementia.

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Speaker 2: Also getting someone to stand on the spot and close

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Speaker 2: their eyes because if they're having problems with no function

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Speaker 2: in their legs in particular, other senses start to take off,

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Speaker 2: so they're relying on their eyes. But for instance, at nighttime,

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Speaker 2: when they get up in the middle of the night,

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Speaker 2: they fall over.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so that's a.

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Speaker 2: Way to try and look at that, and coordination testing

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Speaker 2: in a general sense. Reflexes are used for us to

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Speaker 2: try to determine the level of We use a word

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Speaker 2: called lesion. Where is the lesions we're trying to work

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Speaker 2: out where the abnormality is, and by tradition we see

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Speaker 2: two two. We divide the nervous system up into central,

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Speaker 2: which is the brain and the spinal cord we call

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Speaker 2: it upper mode in urine or there's the peripheral and

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Speaker 2: that's the nerve and muscles in the arms and the legs,

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Speaker 2: and reflexes tell us where to go. So in other words,

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Speaker 2: if I test someone and they've got very brisk reflexes

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Speaker 2: in a territory, so I just tap them or I

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Speaker 2: don't even need a tendon hammer. That's suggesting upper mode

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Speaker 2: in urine or central problems. If I test their reflexes

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Speaker 2: and they've got no reflexes in a region, that would

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Speaker 2: suggest that the nerve supply is damage. So that's a

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Speaker 2: peripheral abnormality. So we're trying to see is this is

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Speaker 2: sense problem like vascular dementia or is it a peripheral

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Speaker 2: problem like a diabetic neuropathy.

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Speaker 1: Right, So, and then they're crottied Doppler.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So it really depends on what the patient's presenting with.

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Speaker 2: But let's say the presentation might be a partners thinks

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Speaker 2: that they're not thinking as well as they were, or

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Speaker 2: as a family history, and with family history we use

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Speaker 2: typically under the age of fifty, so someone has had

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Speaker 2: a family members had either a heart attack or stroke

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Speaker 2: under fifty that's significant and so as part of my assessment,

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Speaker 2: we do investigations and the Doppler study is an ultrasound

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Speaker 2: looking at the carotid and vertebraladies. They're the main blood

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Speaker 2: vessels that go to the brain, supplying from the heart

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Speaker 2: from the heart directly, and if they start to get

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Speaker 2: closed off slightly, that can be the app that can

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Speaker 2: be the cause of the presentation. It was not a

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Speaker 2: blood flo enough blood flowing up and we use again

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Speaker 2: about a seventy percent market, so it's less than seventy

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Speaker 2: percent and flow. That's significant, right, But now with Doppler,

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Speaker 2: with technology, we can actually trace that up. When we

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Speaker 2: can go and now look at the blood vessels, the

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Speaker 2: middle cerebral artery, posterior cerebral artery, which form a sort

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Speaker 2: of circle inside the brain called the circle of Willis.

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Speaker 2: So we can study that now through ultrasound, and again

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Speaker 2: we can get some marker about blood flow.

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Speaker 1: Right, And so what would cause those arteries to do this?

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Speaker 1: I mean, obviously smoking is an issue, but yeah, is

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Speaker 1: it just high cholesterol, high low density cholesterol.

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Speaker 2: All of those factors, But definitely smoking would have been

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Speaker 2: probably the most common cause. And I've seen that evolution

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Speaker 2: now Like in the nineties we were seeing a lot

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Speaker 2: of credit artery. We use the words stenosis. It's less

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Speaker 2: common now. People don't smoke as much as they used to,

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Speaker 2: Like it's rare that you see smokers. Now you've mentioned

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Speaker 2: then cholesterol, so understanding like LDL in particular more than

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Speaker 2: about four point five or more more than two but

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Speaker 2: the total cholesterol of more than four point five is

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Speaker 2: significant blood sugar levels and obviously you know your body

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Speaker 2: mass index.

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Speaker 1: What about the so called apo b apolipo bread and B,

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Speaker 1: I mean, which is their carrier? So of the cholesterol

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Speaker 1: most people don't realize cholesterol doesn't get anywhere unless you've

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Speaker 1: got something we need to piggyback. Absolutely, And so that's

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Speaker 1: a new thing. Is there's a new test.

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Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, it's it's a new test. Yeah, And apper

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Speaker 2: LiPo protein is one of it. Turns out there's lots

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Speaker 2: of different types. There's lots of different forms. You know one, two, three, four, five,

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Speaker 2: four is the critical one. But these apper lipoproteins help

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Speaker 2: other processes, other nutrients come in and out of cells.

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Speaker 2: But the issue about appo LiPo protein E four is

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Speaker 2: that it is involved in the removal of amyloid and plaques.

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Speaker 2: So if you have higher numbers or manifestations of the

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Speaker 2: breakdown of amyloid in the brain is not as good.

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Speaker 2: So that makes you more prone to Alzheimer's disease. So

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Speaker 2: amyloid and tower proteins in the brain that are linked

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Speaker 2: to a specific form of dementia Alzheimer's.

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Speaker 1: Disease which forget forget from us basically can't remember stuff. Absolutely, yeah,

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Speaker 1: and that happens in one part of the brain more

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Speaker 1: prevalent in that hippocampus or the thing is that was

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Speaker 1: that right?

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Speaker 2: That's the most common and that that's the sort of

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Speaker 2: the center of memory function in our human brain. But

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Speaker 2: it doesn't have to be there, like it could also

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Speaker 2: be some people start losing their visions. It could be

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Speaker 2: in the occipital region. It can be lots of different

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Speaker 2: parts of the brain. But the more common part, yes,

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Speaker 2: is memory.

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Speaker 1: And is it fair to say that I don't know

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Speaker 1: where I read this, but vision and hearing are quite

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Speaker 1: important as early markers for that potentially you might be

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Speaker 1: getting dimension, might becoming your way down the track. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: why is that? Well?

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Speaker 2: I think this is really great work that came out

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Speaker 2: from the Lancet Commission, and they discovered fourteen factors which

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Speaker 2: could be modified to either prevent or treat dementia, modify

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Speaker 2: or prevent and one of those is hearing. And I

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Speaker 2: think that you know, I have a colleague as a neurologist,

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Speaker 2: and he started developing hearing problems and he noticed that

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Speaker 2: when he went to dinner party, he didn't really want

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Speaker 2: to engage because he couldn't hear what was going on.

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Speaker 2: So people start retreating and that then promotes the brain

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Speaker 2: not to function as well as it, you know, normally.

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Speaker 1: Retreating from what's social intrational.

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Speaker 2: Engagement, and so social engagement is another critical factor that

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Speaker 2: was identified by the Lancet Commission. So the more that

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Speaker 2: you're engaged in you know, a profession, a work, a environment,

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Speaker 2: a community, a sports environment, a rugby league club, the

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Speaker 2: better off people go. And if you're isolated the brain,

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Speaker 2: the brain doesn't like isolation. So this is all these

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Speaker 2: are all modifiable risk factors, and then how could you

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Speaker 2: sort of cut off a few of them? Well, firstly

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Speaker 2: like if you like exercise, are you involved in a

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Speaker 2: in a community approach or as a particular exercise that

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Speaker 2: you like doing aerobic type of exercise, but also resistance training,

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Speaker 2: and these again are all modifiable risk factors for dementia.

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Speaker 2: Another part of that that's only really come out in

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Speaker 2: the last few years is an understanding what we're called frailty.

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Speaker 2: So you might have said, O, someone looks a bit frail.

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Speaker 2: That doesn't really mean anything, but frailty is it's a

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Speaker 2: two way process between the body and all of the

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Speaker 2: body organs and the brain. So when the brain stops working,

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Speaker 2: the organs don't work as well. But if the organs

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Speaker 2: don't work as well, the brain stops working as in converse.

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Speaker 1: So your dale's you'll get frail.

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Speaker 2: How can you prevent yourself from becoming frail? Well, resistance training,

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Speaker 2: high protein diets, aerobic training, stay engaged with the community.

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Speaker 2: These are the things that are going to help brain health.

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Speaker 1: I remember Mark Penny, Professor Mark Pennie M's showing about

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Speaker 1: because I was talking about him about his dad, Ron, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: who died from dementia, and Ron was like a genius

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Speaker 1: skinny fit walked up the stairs to a level of

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Speaker 1: whatever it was every day at Sir Vincent's. And I

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Speaker 1: said to Mark, are you worried about your genetic predisposition perhaps,

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Speaker 1: and would you bother getting a genetic test for dementia?

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Speaker 1: And he said no? And I said why? And he

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Speaker 1: said to me The reason why, he said, is because

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Speaker 1: even if I find out the solution right now, I

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Speaker 1: don't have any symptoms. But the solution right now would

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Speaker 1: be to do high intensity exercise, he said, So I'm

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Speaker 1: mols do it. Anyway, whether I get a diagnosis or not,

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Speaker 1: they're only the diagnosis because getting the diagnosis can cause

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Speaker 1: a lot of anxiety, and people do retract socially and

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Speaker 1: all sorts of things. He said, I'm better probably not knowing,

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Speaker 1: but doing the very thing that they would recommend me

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Speaker 1: do anyway. And so how does high intensity exercise assist

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Speaker 1: in that regard?

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Speaker 2: Well, I think obviously he was a visionary, but yeah,

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Speaker 2: when you exercise, for instance, blood vessels dilate, so the

400
00:22:07,280 --> 00:22:10,080
Speaker 2: blood vessels dilate, more blood flow starts going through brain,

401
00:22:10,400 --> 00:22:12,080
Speaker 2: in your brain and all over your body, but in

402
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Speaker 2: your muscles. So it's just reflecting what's going on. But

403
00:22:16,320 --> 00:22:19,320
Speaker 2: a number of conditions are also associated with other metabolic

404
00:22:19,400 --> 00:22:22,200
Speaker 2: changes in the brain and the body in a general sense,

405
00:22:22,240 --> 00:22:27,919
Speaker 2: so insulin resistance, metabolic health, mitochondrial function, so all the

406
00:22:28,000 --> 00:22:32,399
Speaker 2: cellular approaches, inflammation, inflammation in the brain, inflammation in the

407
00:22:32,480 --> 00:22:33,400
Speaker 2: organs of the body.

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00:22:33,880 --> 00:22:34,600
Speaker 1: So all of.

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Speaker 2: These are improved through exercise and high intensity exercises. As

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00:22:39,040 --> 00:22:42,600
Speaker 2: Matt Penny suggested back then, I think the other thing is,

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Speaker 2: and I understand what he's saying as well, there's a

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Speaker 2: stigma and people don't necessarily want to be associated with

413
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Speaker 2: any of these conditions. But I think what we've got

414
00:22:50,840 --> 00:22:52,760
Speaker 2: to is try and turn that around as a community

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Speaker 2: and say, well, we're focusing on brain health. We want

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Speaker 2: optimal brain function, and we want to get into it early,

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Speaker 2: and we want to maintain it throughout the course of

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Speaker 2: your life. So wouldn't it be great if people started

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Speaker 2: going to their general practitioners at the age of thirty

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Speaker 2: and had a brain health check to prevent dementia and

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Speaker 2: erodegeneration in their sixty seventies, eighties, nineties. We don't know

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Speaker 2: how long we're going to live for, but it's still

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Speaker 2: going upwards. So I think that we can try and

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Speaker 2: encourage a more healthy approach to brain health.

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Speaker 1: It was funny, you know, today, knowing I was going

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Speaker 1: to talk to you, I actually had an appointment, just

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Speaker 1: a general point with my GP, who's actually fantastic. I've

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Speaker 1: got to give him, I've got to get shower him

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Speaker 1: out now. And he's new. He's new, he's a young

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00:23:38,080 --> 00:23:40,920
Speaker 1: guy I knew, and he and I have all sorts

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Speaker 1: of conversations similar to you and I about all sorts

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Speaker 1: of things. And I said to him, I wonder whether

433
00:23:45,880 --> 00:23:50,240
Speaker 1: or not I should have say, two days off from

434
00:23:50,240 --> 00:23:53,320
Speaker 1: exercise and go and get a blood test for BDNF

435
00:23:53,880 --> 00:23:58,520
Speaker 1: brain revenue tropic factor. And he said, oh, he said, okay,

436
00:23:58,520 --> 00:24:00,520
Speaker 1: there's not a bad idea, but he can't find any

437
00:24:00,560 --> 00:24:04,160
Speaker 1: where who does that. He's still searching. He hasn't texted yet,

438
00:24:04,160 --> 00:24:06,399
Speaker 1: but he's still searching. And the only reason I was

439
00:24:06,440 --> 00:24:10,520
Speaker 1: saying that was because you know, I'm with things. You know,

440
00:24:10,680 --> 00:24:12,479
Speaker 1: as you know, my mother passed away from a new

441
00:24:12,560 --> 00:24:15,320
Speaker 1: disease or als and I've got a dimension on the

442
00:24:15,359 --> 00:24:17,320
Speaker 1: other side, So you know, I get nervous about these things,

443
00:24:17,600 --> 00:24:20,960
Speaker 1: but not so much that I'm over nervous. I'm not paranoid,

444
00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:24,280
Speaker 1: but but I take the view I'm a contra good

445
00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:26,320
Speaker 1: or something about it. I got to talk to people,

446
00:24:26,520 --> 00:24:29,840
Speaker 1: that's what this whole show's about. And and I thought, well,

447
00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:36,000
Speaker 1: I as I understand it, that particular MOLECULEAR gets produced

448
00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:40,400
Speaker 1: in your brain when you exercise is very good for

449
00:24:40,640 --> 00:24:44,239
Speaker 1: brain health, but no one knows what the level is.

450
00:24:44,840 --> 00:24:47,959
Speaker 1: No one's actually asked me to do a test. And

451
00:24:48,200 --> 00:24:50,280
Speaker 1: I'm assuming he can find he can find someone can

452
00:24:50,320 --> 00:24:52,560
Speaker 1: do it. You probably know the incident anyway, But what

453
00:24:52,600 --> 00:24:55,720
Speaker 1: are some of the things that you think Australians or

454
00:24:55,760 --> 00:24:59,159
Speaker 1: people listening to this show should be asking their doctor

455
00:24:59,240 --> 00:25:02,720
Speaker 1: to get tested, even if it's just baselining you now

456
00:25:02,800 --> 00:25:04,639
Speaker 1: in a relation to brain health, are there things that

457
00:25:04,680 --> 00:25:06,639
Speaker 1: you should be asking apart from the obvious ones, and

458
00:25:06,640 --> 00:25:09,879
Speaker 1: the obvious ones of the heart was good you want, Tommy,

459
00:25:10,320 --> 00:25:12,800
Speaker 1: if it's good for your heart's good for your brain exactly. Yeah,

460
00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:17,639
Speaker 1: But apart from those, you know, ApoB little A E

461
00:25:17,720 --> 00:25:19,879
Speaker 1: and all that stuff. Apart from those ones, are there

462
00:25:19,920 --> 00:25:22,680
Speaker 1: any specific things you should be getting tested when you

463
00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:24,480
Speaker 1: ask for a blood test from your doctor relative to

464
00:25:24,520 --> 00:25:25,440
Speaker 1: your brain health.

465
00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:29,280
Speaker 2: Well, you've already articulated the main ones currently, but this

466
00:25:29,359 --> 00:25:33,240
Speaker 2: is a rapidly evolving landscape. So, for instance, at Neuroscience

467
00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:37,200
Speaker 2: Research Australia have formed a partnership with Roast Diagnostics platform

468
00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:39,680
Speaker 2: and part of the reason for that is to get

469
00:25:39,720 --> 00:25:43,679
Speaker 2: blood bio markers as a Medicare item number, so that

470
00:25:43,720 --> 00:25:46,080
Speaker 2: people can go to their GP and have all of these.

471
00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:46,720
Speaker 1: Get numb for free.

472
00:25:46,920 --> 00:25:49,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's where it's going to be. That's going

473
00:25:49,520 --> 00:25:51,199
Speaker 2: to be in the next five to ten years, right,

474
00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:57,679
Speaker 2: And some of those markers are specifically, you know, identified

475
00:25:57,760 --> 00:26:00,560
Speaker 2: with particular conditions. But there are things called neurofilement, so

476
00:26:00,800 --> 00:26:04,080
Speaker 2: the neurofilament goes up in your blood when there's been

477
00:26:04,359 --> 00:26:08,639
Speaker 2: some nerve damage. There are other markers we call GFAPP.

478
00:26:09,760 --> 00:26:16,280
Speaker 2: These are blood tests that can suggest a particular diagnosis.

479
00:26:17,480 --> 00:26:20,119
Speaker 2: There's been a huge study in the UK and they've

480
00:26:20,640 --> 00:26:25,520
Speaker 2: taken blood and clinical examinations from fifty thousand people and

481
00:26:25,520 --> 00:26:27,480
Speaker 2: they've gone back to the blood bio markers and they're

482
00:26:27,480 --> 00:26:30,200
Speaker 2: show them that if five particular proteins in the blood

483
00:26:30,240 --> 00:26:35,040
Speaker 2: go up about ten years before Alzheimer's disease develops, and

484
00:26:35,080 --> 00:26:36,959
Speaker 2: that's where we're going to be going. So we're going

485
00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:40,359
Speaker 2: to be testing these in healthy individuals and then we

486
00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:44,280
Speaker 2: can start to treat against these blood bio markers to

487
00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:47,600
Speaker 2: try and maximize brain health. It's not here at the present,

488
00:26:47,920 --> 00:26:49,199
Speaker 2: but there's a lot of work going on in your

489
00:26:49,280 --> 00:26:50,359
Speaker 2: hurry right now.

490
00:26:50,520 --> 00:26:54,399
Speaker 1: I can't wait forever. Yeah no, because one of these

491
00:26:54,440 --> 00:26:56,720
Speaker 1: I want to ask you is can you test? Can

492
00:26:56,800 --> 00:27:01,040
Speaker 1: I do a blood test today for amyloids in tower?

493
00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:05,040
Speaker 2: At the moment you can't. But that's exactly so this

494
00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:08,360
Speaker 2: sort of diagnostic pathway is to bittering amyloid and tau

495
00:27:08,920 --> 00:27:13,000
Speaker 2: for Alzheimer's disease, TDP forty three for motor neurone disease,

496
00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:16,399
Speaker 2: in front of temperal dementia, alpha si nucleon for leuis

497
00:27:16,440 --> 00:27:19,399
Speaker 2: body dementia, Parkinson's disease. That's where it's going to be

498
00:27:19,720 --> 00:27:21,680
Speaker 2: and we're going to see what are those levels, but

499
00:27:21,760 --> 00:27:24,280
Speaker 2: we can't really at the moment. We haven't done large

500
00:27:24,320 --> 00:27:26,880
Speaker 2: population studies to know what that range should be.

501
00:27:27,640 --> 00:27:30,880
Speaker 1: It's just people. You don't have a range, So that's

502
00:27:30,920 --> 00:27:34,000
Speaker 1: cutting in. Yeah, So do you think in the next

503
00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:38,720
Speaker 1: five years these are some of these are realistically able

504
00:27:38,760 --> 00:27:39,120
Speaker 1: to be done?

505
00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:42,320
Speaker 2: I'd say with absolute guarantee they will be. And you'll

506
00:27:42,359 --> 00:27:44,000
Speaker 2: be going to the doctor with a blood result like

507
00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:46,439
Speaker 2: you do now with a full blood count hemoglobin and

508
00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:49,840
Speaker 2: they'll say, oh, your neurofilm and is slightly high. This

509
00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:52,639
Speaker 2: is the treatment to bring it down towards roughly normal

510
00:27:52,680 --> 00:27:55,000
Speaker 2: levels or that's really high. We need to do some

511
00:27:55,040 --> 00:27:57,240
Speaker 2: more investigations on that one. We need to lumber Puncher

512
00:27:57,280 --> 00:27:59,359
Speaker 2: and MRIs again. So I think it's going to start

513
00:27:59,560 --> 00:28:03,080
Speaker 2: to deter and the way forward. But then also linked

514
00:28:03,080 --> 00:28:05,600
Speaker 2: to that, we're going to start having treatments and we

515
00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:10,119
Speaker 2: have now two treatments for Alzheimer's, these monoclonal antibodies, and

516
00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:12,440
Speaker 2: there's a lot more on the horizon coming through, so

517
00:28:12,560 --> 00:28:14,760
Speaker 2: it's a very much a therapeutic era.

518
00:28:15,240 --> 00:28:18,080
Speaker 1: Well, so I do want to talk about those monoclone

519
00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:22,200
Speaker 1: antibody treatments in a moment, because I have one. As

520
00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:24,440
Speaker 1: you know, I text you. But I have one friend

521
00:28:24,440 --> 00:28:27,840
Speaker 1: of mine who's in his eighties, and I don't know

522
00:28:27,880 --> 00:28:29,880
Speaker 1: whether it's him or his wife showed him this thing

523
00:28:29,920 --> 00:28:32,320
Speaker 1: and he knows I have this show, and he sent

524
00:28:32,359 --> 00:28:34,000
Speaker 1: me the text, and I said, don't worry. I'm going

525
00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:35,639
Speaker 1: to get Matthew Kin and I'm going to ask him

526
00:28:35,640 --> 00:28:39,080
Speaker 1: the question because he actually is worried at his age

527
00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:43,960
Speaker 1: about dementia. I'm genuinely worried by the way he's in

528
00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:47,920
Speaker 1: great shape. But people do get nervous about the stuff, mate,

529
00:28:47,920 --> 00:28:50,760
Speaker 1: They get really anxious. I mean, I think there's more anxiety.

530
00:28:51,560 --> 00:28:54,680
Speaker 1: Of all the guys I know around my age. The

531
00:28:54,760 --> 00:28:57,520
Speaker 1: one thing that is, particularly the ones who played footy

532
00:28:57,600 --> 00:29:00,480
Speaker 1: or boxed or did anything like that. Had we're in

533
00:29:00,520 --> 00:29:05,080
Speaker 1: contact spoorts, they are all worried about dementia. It's like

534
00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:08,280
Speaker 1: it's a big deal. You'd be seeing as in your religis.

535
00:29:08,320 --> 00:29:09,120
Speaker 1: But it's a big deal.

536
00:29:09,360 --> 00:29:12,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think again industry has taken that on

537
00:29:12,760 --> 00:29:15,320
Speaker 2: board as well. There was recently a superannuation conference and

538
00:29:15,360 --> 00:29:19,040
Speaker 2: all of the key superproviders. You know, imagine you've done

539
00:29:19,080 --> 00:29:22,320
Speaker 2: your whole life, you've worked, you set yourself up, and

540
00:29:22,360 --> 00:29:26,480
Speaker 2: then your cognition goes down. So it's it's incredibly important

541
00:29:26,520 --> 00:29:28,720
Speaker 2: and I can see why people are worried. I'm worried,

542
00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:31,400
Speaker 2: but we don't have a way to identify who is

543
00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:34,840
Speaker 2: at the greatest risk at the moment. And that's why

544
00:29:35,440 --> 00:29:38,280
Speaker 2: the focus on making brain health, you know, the key

545
00:29:38,960 --> 00:29:43,160
Speaker 2: treatment area for our community is critical and that's why

546
00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:45,040
Speaker 2: it's happening. Everyone's worried about it.

547
00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:48,200
Speaker 1: Well, government should be worried about too, because some mean

548
00:29:48,280 --> 00:29:51,600
Speaker 1: their job, is my view, their job is to increase

549
00:29:51,600 --> 00:29:54,080
Speaker 1: their standard of living. Our stand living. That the ultimate

550
00:29:54,120 --> 00:29:56,360
Speaker 1: it's about stand living. And there are lots of measurements

551
00:29:56,400 --> 00:29:58,240
Speaker 1: for that. One measurement that should be how long you

552
00:29:58,280 --> 00:30:01,040
Speaker 1: can live on this planet, how well you live during

553
00:30:01,040 --> 00:30:05,600
Speaker 1: that period. And living with dementia, like when it's full

554
00:30:05,600 --> 00:30:08,960
Speaker 1: blown at least, is not living, you know, like it's

555
00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:11,760
Speaker 1: pretty dreadful on everyone. Else around you, Like if you

556
00:30:12,080 --> 00:30:14,800
Speaker 1: someone said to me today, ail to you or anybody, Look,

557
00:30:14,920 --> 00:30:16,920
Speaker 1: you know, how would you see yourself when you're eighty

558
00:30:16,960 --> 00:30:19,440
Speaker 1: five or ninety. And by the way, medical technology you'll

559
00:30:19,440 --> 00:30:22,280
Speaker 1: get us there now because they can fix the hard thing,

560
00:30:22,280 --> 00:30:23,840
Speaker 1: and replace the hard thing, and fix the guineas and

561
00:30:23,880 --> 00:30:28,760
Speaker 1: fix just better really accept this thing. And if they said,

562
00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:31,640
Speaker 1: if you were to rate your standard living, one thing

563
00:30:31,680 --> 00:30:34,720
Speaker 1: is you probably don't want to be confronted with is

564
00:30:35,320 --> 00:30:40,360
Speaker 1: your kids having to bathe you and not be recognized

565
00:30:40,360 --> 00:30:42,360
Speaker 1: by you, or your kids have having to put you

566
00:30:42,440 --> 00:30:44,760
Speaker 1: in a nursing home because you turn a little bit

567
00:30:44,880 --> 00:30:48,560
Speaker 1: violent because you've got dementia. That would be probably the

568
00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:51,920
Speaker 1: lowest stand of living I can imagine for me. I'd

569
00:30:51,920 --> 00:30:53,560
Speaker 1: tell a lot of people to agree with that. Yeah,

570
00:30:53,600 --> 00:30:56,040
Speaker 1: that's the fear. Absolutely, it's a massive fear.

571
00:30:56,440 --> 00:31:00,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's well founded. I think that the the

572
00:31:00,360 --> 00:31:03,880
Speaker 2: essence of being a human is our brain function, our

573
00:31:03,920 --> 00:31:06,840
Speaker 2: executive function, the fact that we're having this conversation now.

574
00:31:07,280 --> 00:31:10,440
Speaker 2: So when that is affected in any way, it has

575
00:31:10,600 --> 00:31:15,400
Speaker 2: massive implications and it's very hard for individuals and families

576
00:31:15,480 --> 00:31:16,080
Speaker 2: to cope with that.

577
00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:19,880
Speaker 1: So I just had to thought then if Matthew just

578
00:31:19,920 --> 00:31:23,080
Speaker 1: go back to something. When we're talking about high intensity exercise,

579
00:31:24,120 --> 00:31:27,960
Speaker 1: you can do that when you're forty, fifty, sixty, some

580
00:31:28,000 --> 00:31:32,920
Speaker 1: people maybe seventy, but it largely depends on your mobility

581
00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:35,960
Speaker 1: and a lot of other stuff, you know, energy levels,

582
00:31:36,320 --> 00:31:40,360
Speaker 1: et cetera. But when you're eighty does high intensity then? Mean?

583
00:31:40,840 --> 00:31:42,640
Speaker 1: I mean, how do we measure high intensity? Is it

584
00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:46,320
Speaker 1: about my heart as a percentage of maximum heart rate?

585
00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:49,719
Speaker 1: Or is it? And therefore you take one hundred and

586
00:31:49,760 --> 00:31:52,840
Speaker 1: two twenty multiply minus eighty and it gives me one

587
00:31:52,880 --> 00:31:54,960
Speaker 1: forty and I go, try you at eighty five percent

588
00:31:55,000 --> 00:31:57,520
Speaker 1: of that? Or is it? What is it? What is

589
00:31:57,600 --> 00:32:00,200
Speaker 1: high intensity? Well? That is exactly it.

590
00:32:00,240 --> 00:32:02,480
Speaker 2: But I suppose when you're eighty or ninety, are you

591
00:32:02,480 --> 00:32:04,760
Speaker 2: going to suddenly do a high intensity exer's for the

592
00:32:04,760 --> 00:32:06,200
Speaker 2: first time and do it as well as a twenty

593
00:32:06,240 --> 00:32:08,000
Speaker 2: year old. No, so you're going to be doing it

594
00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:11,240
Speaker 2: in your twenties, thirties, forties, fifties, sixty, seventies and eighties.

595
00:32:11,520 --> 00:32:13,400
Speaker 2: And in fact, by doing that, it makes it more

596
00:32:13,480 --> 00:32:14,600
Speaker 2: likely that you are going to be able to do

597
00:32:14,640 --> 00:32:18,000
Speaker 2: it in your eighties, nineties and one hundred. I see

598
00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:19,960
Speaker 2: a lot of people who come in who were in

599
00:32:20,240 --> 00:32:23,800
Speaker 2: fantastic health in their eighties and nineties. So that's the message.

600
00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:25,320
Speaker 2: You don't have to be in bad health, you don't

601
00:32:25,320 --> 00:32:29,840
Speaker 2: have to have you know, disability. But that hasn't come

602
00:32:29,880 --> 00:32:35,040
Speaker 2: out of nowhere. Yeah, So it's like doing homework all day,

603
00:32:35,080 --> 00:32:37,160
Speaker 2: every day for the course of your life.

604
00:32:37,680 --> 00:32:41,440
Speaker 1: Yes, and to that extent. And that's what this shows

605
00:32:41,440 --> 00:32:43,080
Speaker 1: a lot about this is that they you've got to

606
00:32:43,080 --> 00:32:46,520
Speaker 1: take control individuals. We might, but they're not going to

607
00:32:46,560 --> 00:32:50,040
Speaker 1: take control as someone makes them aware and sort of

608
00:32:50,040 --> 00:32:52,040
Speaker 1: give them a bit of an indication of the type

609
00:32:52,080 --> 00:32:55,520
Speaker 1: of life. There's life style of stuff. Yeah, change your life. No,

610
00:32:55,680 --> 00:32:58,480
Speaker 1: don't drink as much, don't drink it all if you

611
00:32:58,520 --> 00:33:02,840
Speaker 1: can help it, garettes at all, eat the right foods,

612
00:33:02,840 --> 00:33:07,120
Speaker 1: don't put on too much weight, exercise properly. Sleep is

613
00:33:07,160 --> 00:33:11,080
Speaker 1: really important. I do want to talk to you about

614
00:33:11,520 --> 00:33:18,080
Speaker 1: something this this APO like APO E. Chris Hemsworth did

615
00:33:18,080 --> 00:33:23,320
Speaker 1: he show on whatever whatever the streaming platform was. He

616
00:33:23,360 --> 00:33:27,480
Speaker 1: talked to Peter a teer Peter Tree blood test on

617
00:33:26,440 --> 00:33:29,200
Speaker 1: you know, one of the most athletic looking people and

618
00:33:29,400 --> 00:33:32,920
Speaker 1: I've ever seen on television. And I say, therefore, is

619
00:33:32,960 --> 00:33:37,200
Speaker 1: it athletic? He's young, And the bad news, as delivered

620
00:33:37,200 --> 00:33:42,479
Speaker 1: by Peter Tear to Hemsworth, was that he had two

621
00:33:42,560 --> 00:33:45,160
Speaker 1: alleles of E four one month from dad. I presume

622
00:33:45,280 --> 00:33:46,720
Speaker 1: he must have been my month for dad and he

623
00:33:46,800 --> 00:33:52,920
Speaker 1: was four E four. One could you comment on is

624
00:33:53,800 --> 00:33:57,320
Speaker 1: are we now testing for this stuff more more more often?

625
00:33:58,120 --> 00:33:59,720
Speaker 1: And two what does it mean?

626
00:34:02,600 --> 00:34:05,400
Speaker 2: Both excellent questions. We are testing for it more often,

627
00:34:05,400 --> 00:34:08,239
Speaker 2: but it's not routine and people often need to ask

628
00:34:08,280 --> 00:34:10,160
Speaker 2: for it. So I think it's important, and that's why

629
00:34:10,200 --> 00:34:13,200
Speaker 2: this show is important to understand that this is part

630
00:34:13,440 --> 00:34:18,920
Speaker 2: of a risk factor for conditions such as dementia. And

631
00:34:19,239 --> 00:34:22,440
Speaker 2: if you have alleles of APO E four, as you mentioned,

632
00:34:22,880 --> 00:34:25,600
Speaker 2: that means that you're less likely to break down the

633
00:34:25,640 --> 00:34:28,319
Speaker 2: proteins that cause dementia in the brain.

634
00:34:28,360 --> 00:34:33,239
Speaker 1: Because if that protein E four ye, or if it's

635
00:34:33,280 --> 00:34:37,680
Speaker 1: E two E three operates more efficiently than ethol. Absolutely,

636
00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:39,920
Speaker 1: that is that the issue. Yeah, And if you've got

637
00:34:39,960 --> 00:34:42,160
Speaker 1: A four, you don't have E two or three or

638
00:34:42,200 --> 00:34:46,319
Speaker 1: two in particular, you're not as likely to break down those,

639
00:34:46,560 --> 00:34:48,319
Speaker 1: so it's not that efficient in getting rid of all

640
00:34:48,320 --> 00:34:49,799
Speaker 1: the debris that's hanging around your brain.

641
00:34:50,200 --> 00:34:52,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's still working, but it's not working as

642
00:34:52,800 --> 00:34:56,080
Speaker 2: well as I suppose the comparison of you know, nineteen seventies,

643
00:34:56,360 --> 00:34:59,359
Speaker 2: you know, Mini with a Tesla or something like that.

644
00:34:59,360 --> 00:35:03,600
Speaker 2: Like it's total different, but it is working to an extent.

645
00:35:04,440 --> 00:35:09,239
Speaker 2: So obviously, if you do have at BOI four like

646
00:35:10,040 --> 00:35:13,640
Speaker 2: Hemsworth's show on his show, that would put you at

647
00:35:13,640 --> 00:35:16,319
Speaker 2: a higher risk. So that would put more emphasis on

648
00:35:16,480 --> 00:35:19,800
Speaker 2: you to focus on all the other modifiable risk factors

649
00:35:19,800 --> 00:35:22,360
Speaker 2: that you can control, the ones that we've already talked about.

650
00:35:23,200 --> 00:35:24,560
Speaker 2: A statistical higher risk.

651
00:35:24,880 --> 00:35:25,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, it doesn't.

652
00:35:27,200 --> 00:35:28,879
Speaker 2: And these are based on and that's a good point.

653
00:35:28,960 --> 00:35:32,640
Speaker 2: These are based on populations. This is population health. However,

654
00:35:32,680 --> 00:35:36,319
Speaker 2: you can extrapulate the population to the best for you.

655
00:35:37,200 --> 00:35:39,600
Speaker 2: But of course an an equals one I e.

656
00:35:39,680 --> 00:35:40,200
Speaker 1: Yourself.

657
00:35:40,560 --> 00:35:42,920
Speaker 2: It's like it's not it's not an exact science.

658
00:35:43,600 --> 00:35:46,760
Speaker 1: Yeah. So, and as I understand it, there is something

659
00:35:46,840 --> 00:35:52,239
Speaker 1: like people who pass away with perhaps Alzheimer's disease or

660
00:35:52,600 --> 00:35:57,160
Speaker 1: some form of dementia, probably heart attacks two, but have

661
00:35:57,320 --> 00:36:03,400
Speaker 1: a ten times more of those people have the genotype

662
00:36:03,400 --> 00:36:06,839
Speaker 1: B four were both they've got both parents. It's a

663
00:36:06,840 --> 00:36:10,719
Speaker 1: ten time factor. So otherwise it's correlation it's not a causation.

664
00:36:11,320 --> 00:36:14,279
Speaker 1: But lets say, look, he looks great, I mean, and

665
00:36:14,360 --> 00:36:16,880
Speaker 1: obviously he's adjusted his lifestyle. And by the way, I

666
00:36:16,880 --> 00:36:18,920
Speaker 1: don't mind telling everyone, I'm me three E four. So

667
00:36:18,960 --> 00:36:21,800
Speaker 1: I got E four from one of my parents. I

668
00:36:21,920 --> 00:36:25,040
Speaker 1: don't know which one, but one of them, And I

669
00:36:25,040 --> 00:36:27,160
Speaker 1: don't know who to blame, so one mum or dad.

670
00:36:27,640 --> 00:36:29,560
Speaker 1: It doesn't really matter because they both passed away. But

671
00:36:31,000 --> 00:36:35,319
Speaker 1: point being is that there's a I don't know, six

672
00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:38,000
Speaker 1: times I don't have ten times chance like some other

673
00:36:38,239 --> 00:36:43,160
Speaker 1: statistical greater chance of having a brain disorder or even

674
00:36:43,160 --> 00:36:45,040
Speaker 1: a hard disorder, because the four actually fixed your heart too,

675
00:36:45,080 --> 00:36:46,200
Speaker 1: like it's a bad for your heart, and as you

676
00:36:46,200 --> 00:36:48,319
Speaker 1: always say, if it's not good for you with your brain,

677
00:36:48,800 --> 00:36:50,600
Speaker 1: E four does that too, and also has effect on

678
00:36:50,640 --> 00:36:52,799
Speaker 1: the kidneys. It's a kidney issue too, by the way,

679
00:36:52,840 --> 00:36:54,680
Speaker 1: because there's the same deal.

680
00:36:54,680 --> 00:36:56,600
Speaker 2: Absolutely the same deal, because as.

681
00:36:56,480 --> 00:37:01,279
Speaker 1: Your kidneys can get the archer can get, the ones

682
00:37:01,320 --> 00:37:06,360
Speaker 1: coming out of the kidney can get damaged because you're hardened,

683
00:37:06,400 --> 00:37:08,840
Speaker 1: and then they don't filter as well, and so you know,

684
00:37:08,880 --> 00:37:12,080
Speaker 1: you start getting early kidney disease. That's exactly. So it's

685
00:37:12,120 --> 00:37:14,680
Speaker 1: a big deal and we should be getting tests of

686
00:37:14,719 --> 00:37:18,960
Speaker 1: this sort of stuff more often. So E. Four just

687
00:37:19,280 --> 00:37:21,520
Speaker 1: explained a little bit more if you don't mind, because

688
00:37:21,640 --> 00:37:24,760
Speaker 1: one of the things that as I understand it, Matthew,

689
00:37:24,800 --> 00:37:32,279
Speaker 1: is that how comes after amyloid accumulation and TAO come

690
00:37:32,320 --> 00:37:37,880
Speaker 1: about as a result of other processes that happened before

691
00:37:37,960 --> 00:37:43,480
Speaker 1: that way before those things start getting produced. And there

692
00:37:43,600 --> 00:37:49,000
Speaker 1: is you know they're talking about, you know, the Crisper

693
00:37:49,080 --> 00:37:54,120
Speaker 1: process projects whereby they can turn some genes off that

694
00:37:54,360 --> 00:37:57,279
Speaker 1: some people have in their brain, whether they've got EPO

695
00:37:57,440 --> 00:38:01,120
Speaker 1: or not, that you can turn off these processes where

696
00:38:01,239 --> 00:38:04,160
Speaker 1: certain molecules are not going to get produced, which ultimately

697
00:38:04,239 --> 00:38:07,759
Speaker 1: end up in producing more amloids in tow Can you

698
00:38:07,800 --> 00:38:11,120
Speaker 1: just talk about your advances in crisper and what crisper is.

699
00:38:11,600 --> 00:38:15,800
Speaker 2: Well, first, I'd say that focusing on a particular gene

700
00:38:16,320 --> 00:38:20,800
Speaker 2: that might do one part of a function, that's great research,

701
00:38:21,239 --> 00:38:24,560
Speaker 2: but it might not necessarily have any impact or translation

702
00:38:24,760 --> 00:38:27,120
Speaker 2: into the humans that we are. So I think that's

703
00:38:27,160 --> 00:38:29,279
Speaker 2: the first thing. You often see these great discoveries, and

704
00:38:29,600 --> 00:38:32,200
Speaker 2: we've been able to model mice. Yeah, it did it on mice,

705
00:38:32,920 --> 00:38:34,920
Speaker 2: and you know, in a lot of the conditions we're

706
00:38:34,960 --> 00:38:37,440
Speaker 2: talking about. All of my studies have been negative because

707
00:38:37,600 --> 00:38:40,320
Speaker 2: how good is that model for the human disease?

708
00:38:40,640 --> 00:38:40,879
Speaker 1: Right?

709
00:38:41,480 --> 00:38:45,000
Speaker 2: And the other thing is we've obviously mentioned amyloid and

710
00:38:45,080 --> 00:38:47,600
Speaker 2: TAW and they're important parts, but they're not the whole

711
00:38:47,600 --> 00:38:50,560
Speaker 2: story either, and so there's a discussion. I remember when

712
00:38:50,560 --> 00:38:52,880
Speaker 2: people we talking about ammeloid they said, well, it's like

713
00:38:52,960 --> 00:38:55,279
Speaker 2: saying if you remove smoke, is at the end of

714
00:38:55,360 --> 00:38:55,760
Speaker 2: the fire.

715
00:38:56,120 --> 00:38:56,560
Speaker 1: No way.

716
00:38:57,040 --> 00:39:00,600
Speaker 2: So there's a whole process going on here. Emoloid and

717
00:39:00,680 --> 00:39:04,000
Speaker 2: TOW are critical parts, and the genes modifying them are

718
00:39:04,040 --> 00:39:07,560
Speaker 2: critical parts. But if we remove all of the amyloid

719
00:39:07,600 --> 00:39:10,360
Speaker 2: out of someone's brain, will they be back to normal? Well, no,

720
00:39:10,400 --> 00:39:12,760
Speaker 2: they're not, because we're doing that now. So we can

721
00:39:13,040 --> 00:39:17,120
Speaker 2: remove the amyloid with the monoclonal antibodies and they don't

722
00:39:17,120 --> 00:39:19,799
Speaker 2: get back to normal, they might either plateau or they

723
00:39:19,880 --> 00:39:23,000
Speaker 2: might might slow down the progression. But then the question

724
00:39:23,239 --> 00:39:25,839
Speaker 2: is can we find tune that when do we start it?

725
00:39:26,160 --> 00:39:28,880
Speaker 2: Do we start these medications at the age of thirty

726
00:39:28,920 --> 00:39:32,399
Speaker 2: when we see four is up and monitoring some other

727
00:39:32,440 --> 00:39:34,719
Speaker 2: parts of the biomus, and that's where we're going. We're

728
00:39:34,760 --> 00:39:37,319
Speaker 2: going to go earlier and earlier and earlier. And it

729
00:39:37,400 --> 00:39:40,360
Speaker 2: might be that one of the medications is related to

730
00:39:40,440 --> 00:39:44,360
Speaker 2: a gene modification in amyloid in a few years time,

731
00:39:44,520 --> 00:39:47,359
Speaker 2: but that's not available at the moment. The other thing

732
00:39:47,440 --> 00:39:50,239
Speaker 2: is when you start knocking out certain genes, you don't

733
00:39:50,239 --> 00:39:51,719
Speaker 2: know what the downstream effects of.

734
00:39:51,640 --> 00:39:55,040
Speaker 1: That effect is. Yeah, exactly. That might be good for

735
00:39:55,080 --> 00:39:56,359
Speaker 1: something else, yeah, and.

736
00:39:56,320 --> 00:39:59,640
Speaker 2: It might be a catastrophe, you know, were there were trials,

737
00:39:59,640 --> 00:40:03,120
Speaker 2: for instance, in Parkinson's disease, putting in stem cells into

738
00:40:03,160 --> 00:40:05,120
Speaker 2: the brain and all sounding great, It was looking good,

739
00:40:05,360 --> 00:40:08,960
Speaker 2: but then the stem cell started to overgrow and cause cancer,

740
00:40:08,960 --> 00:40:12,000
Speaker 2: and so people coming in with you know, overgrowth and

741
00:40:12,080 --> 00:40:14,520
Speaker 2: cancer cells in the brain. So it was a catastrophe.

742
00:40:14,760 --> 00:40:16,799
Speaker 2: So you've got to be able to understand. And that's

743
00:40:16,800 --> 00:40:20,920
Speaker 2: really why human trials are so critical. So a model

744
00:40:21,000 --> 00:40:23,960
Speaker 2: is only as good as a disease. It models, but

745
00:40:24,040 --> 00:40:25,880
Speaker 2: I think we have to get more and more into

746
00:40:26,280 --> 00:40:31,200
Speaker 2: patients and patients with neurological conditions. Of course we need

747
00:40:31,239 --> 00:40:34,160
Speaker 2: basic science and discovery, but we've got to focus on

748
00:40:34,600 --> 00:40:35,400
Speaker 2: the human.

749
00:40:37,640 --> 00:40:40,080
Speaker 1: We are talking. I mean, dementia covers a lot of

750
00:40:40,120 --> 00:40:42,719
Speaker 1: stuff and we've been talking about and Alzheimer is the

751
00:40:42,719 --> 00:40:46,440
Speaker 1: one probably everybody tends to focus on. But loss of memory,

752
00:40:46,480 --> 00:40:50,360
Speaker 1: I guess is probably of describing it. What is the

753
00:40:50,480 --> 00:40:55,120
Speaker 1: general progression? Though? From the moment you and I remember

754
00:40:55,120 --> 00:41:00,080
Speaker 1: asking you this question, I said to you, sometimes I

755
00:41:00,120 --> 00:41:02,920
Speaker 1: just can forget a word, and I just can't remember

756
00:41:02,960 --> 00:41:06,040
Speaker 1: the word, and about two or three minutes that comes

757
00:41:06,040 --> 00:41:07,920
Speaker 1: to me. Or I forget a person's name. I know

758
00:41:07,960 --> 00:41:10,279
Speaker 1: them so well, but I haven't said it maybe for

759
00:41:10,320 --> 00:41:13,520
Speaker 1: a while. And you said to me something like that

760
00:41:13,680 --> 00:41:17,600
Speaker 1: sort of anxiety memory because some of you are said

761
00:41:17,600 --> 00:41:19,440
Speaker 1: to me, oh my god, I can't remember that word.

762
00:41:19,480 --> 00:41:21,319
Speaker 1: And they're older people and they're going and they're just

763
00:41:21,360 --> 00:41:26,000
Speaker 1: marking around, go bloody, early dementia. But what what other

764
00:41:26,040 --> 00:41:29,040
Speaker 1: things could be causing us not to remember that the

765
00:41:29,160 --> 00:41:33,600
Speaker 1: name or the word. What is this anxiety about memory?

766
00:41:34,200 --> 00:41:35,799
Speaker 2: Well, I think once we start focusing on it, we

767
00:41:35,840 --> 00:41:37,640
Speaker 2: all become anxious. Like hearing a story there, I was

768
00:41:37,640 --> 00:41:41,759
Speaker 2: feeling a bit anxious, So that's something natural. But I

769
00:41:41,800 --> 00:41:45,080
Speaker 2: suppose you're worried that you can't recall a name or

770
00:41:45,120 --> 00:41:47,399
Speaker 2: a process, and then a little bit later you do,

771
00:41:47,600 --> 00:41:51,399
Speaker 2: so the function is there, so you haven't lost the function.

772
00:41:51,320 --> 00:41:53,360
Speaker 1: Right, ourzeime's major lost the function.

773
00:41:53,239 --> 00:41:55,920
Speaker 2: It doesn't doesn't come back right. And it's like I

774
00:41:55,920 --> 00:41:59,760
Speaker 2: suppose an onion starts stripping away the very core parts

775
00:41:59,800 --> 00:42:02,200
Speaker 2: of and remain and you might, you know, have memories

776
00:42:02,239 --> 00:42:05,279
Speaker 2: from long standing memories about you know, growing up and

777
00:42:05,360 --> 00:42:07,840
Speaker 2: your parents and so on, but you don't remember that

778
00:42:07,880 --> 00:42:09,560
Speaker 2: you need to go down and get you know, to

779
00:42:09,680 --> 00:42:12,240
Speaker 2: Col's and get dinner for tonight, those sort of things.

780
00:42:12,360 --> 00:42:15,960
Speaker 2: It's so there's a level of what is intrinsic in

781
00:42:16,000 --> 00:42:18,839
Speaker 2: your brain function that's laid down and these these are

782
00:42:18,880 --> 00:42:22,560
Speaker 2: memories that are laid down and reinforced. But it's the

783
00:42:22,600 --> 00:42:25,719
Speaker 2: short term issues that tend to be more problematic. And

784
00:42:25,760 --> 00:42:29,520
Speaker 2: that also means your daily function in your job, in

785
00:42:29,560 --> 00:42:31,440
Speaker 2: your family, in your environment.

786
00:42:31,600 --> 00:42:35,600
Speaker 1: So what is the usual progression? So people start having

787
00:42:37,040 --> 00:42:39,400
Speaker 1: maybe what's something that someone might come to you? And

788
00:42:39,640 --> 00:42:42,440
Speaker 1: obviously I don't want to breach any professional situation here,

789
00:42:42,480 --> 00:42:47,680
Speaker 1: but like maybe someone comes to you and like very

790
00:42:47,680 --> 00:42:51,720
Speaker 1: early stage Alzheimer's, like what would you what would you see?

791
00:42:52,200 --> 00:42:55,759
Speaker 2: Well, part of it can be prolonged word finding difficulties,

792
00:42:55,800 --> 00:42:58,440
Speaker 2: and we might test for it, like you might show

793
00:42:58,880 --> 00:43:00,960
Speaker 2: them a picture of say the Eiffel Tower and anyone.

794
00:43:00,960 --> 00:43:03,440
Speaker 2: So that's the Eiffel Tower, So what's that. That's that

795
00:43:03,600 --> 00:43:08,000
Speaker 2: place that's sort of not here, but it's and it's

796
00:43:08,600 --> 00:43:10,920
Speaker 2: it's made of metal, and they're sort of talking around,

797
00:43:10,920 --> 00:43:14,000
Speaker 2: so it's fluent, it's fluent speech, but they can't say

798
00:43:14,080 --> 00:43:16,720
Speaker 2: Eiffel Tower. They can't say that's a structure in powers

799
00:43:16,719 --> 00:43:19,479
Speaker 2: and Powers is in France. So the connections are all gone.

800
00:43:19,800 --> 00:43:23,560
Speaker 1: There are tests, specific tests later, Yeah, you'll.

801
00:43:23,360 --> 00:43:26,760
Speaker 2: Have them, and so either the neurologists will be involved

802
00:43:26,760 --> 00:43:29,239
Speaker 2: in those tests or there's a neuropsychologist. It's usually a

803
00:43:29,320 --> 00:43:34,200
Speaker 2: multidisciplinary approach and there's testing for word finding difficulties, but

804
00:43:34,280 --> 00:43:38,160
Speaker 2: also then trails, so for instance, doing networks of you know,

805
00:43:38,520 --> 00:43:44,160
Speaker 2: shapes and sizes, doing images of clocks, understanding times. Another

806
00:43:44,480 --> 00:43:47,920
Speaker 2: you know, test is verbal fluency. That's the frontal lobe function.

807
00:43:48,080 --> 00:43:50,560
Speaker 2: So for instance, I don't know if you want to

808
00:43:50,560 --> 00:43:52,800
Speaker 2: do it on the spot, but tell me all the letters,

809
00:43:52,880 --> 00:43:54,880
Speaker 2: all the words that you can think of with the letter.

810
00:43:54,880 --> 00:44:04,120
Speaker 1: M words real, masterclock, I can't even think he got

811
00:44:04,200 --> 00:44:09,319
Speaker 1: me nervous? Can I think of names? No? No, I

812
00:44:09,320 --> 00:44:28,120
Speaker 1: can't think of it. In addiction, money, metal, motor, car Modikaid, Mammoth, Milestone, mightiness, Michaelangelo.

813
00:44:31,080 --> 00:44:32,520
Speaker 1: How's my time going? Perfect?

814
00:44:32,640 --> 00:44:35,280
Speaker 2: You still got abut another ten or twenty seconds, But

815
00:44:35,320 --> 00:44:38,360
Speaker 2: more than more than double figures in a minute is normal?

816
00:44:38,480 --> 00:44:40,280
Speaker 1: Normal? Yeah? And also you're.

817
00:44:40,120 --> 00:44:42,160
Speaker 2: Looking at the words you use there, like like some

818
00:44:42,239 --> 00:44:44,319
Speaker 2: of those were three or four syllables, so they're very

819
00:44:44,320 --> 00:44:46,400
Speaker 2: complex words. So it's totally normal.

820
00:44:46,480 --> 00:44:48,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, but these are this is part of the So

821
00:44:49,320 --> 00:44:51,880
Speaker 1: how would someone know THATTT that they should go and

822
00:44:51,920 --> 00:44:54,840
Speaker 1: see someone? So because you know, like let's say I

823
00:44:54,880 --> 00:44:57,759
Speaker 1: could get to two out like for example, then I'm

824
00:44:57,920 --> 00:45:00,440
Speaker 1: sort of a bit late to the game. Talk to

825
00:45:00,480 --> 00:45:04,920
Speaker 1: a neurologist. Is there some sort of self testing? Is

826
00:45:04,920 --> 00:45:07,400
Speaker 1: there something like can they go to the new website

827
00:45:07,400 --> 00:45:10,520
Speaker 1: and your Your neuro website sort of explains a few

828
00:45:10,560 --> 00:45:12,360
Speaker 1: things to me and maybe it gets me starting to

829
00:45:12,400 --> 00:45:13,719
Speaker 1: think about it. Or I might be talking to my

830
00:45:13,760 --> 00:45:16,280
Speaker 1: brother who's younger than me, but I might have noticed

831
00:45:16,280 --> 00:45:18,400
Speaker 1: something I can say, maybe you just should go and

832
00:45:18,440 --> 00:45:20,560
Speaker 1: see a doctor about this. I mean, how far back

833
00:45:20,600 --> 00:45:21,000
Speaker 1: can we go?

834
00:45:21,600 --> 00:45:25,080
Speaker 2: Well, we have got risk assessment profiles through the neuro website,

835
00:45:25,120 --> 00:45:27,080
Speaker 2: and people can they're they're all free? Is that neuro

836
00:45:27,080 --> 00:45:29,520
Speaker 2: dot com dot you.

837
00:45:28,600 --> 00:45:29,879
Speaker 1: You, and.

838
00:45:31,239 --> 00:45:33,920
Speaker 2: I think it's also just your engagement in life, like

839
00:45:33,920 --> 00:45:37,040
Speaker 2: people like Sudoku's or reading the newspapers or you know,

840
00:45:37,600 --> 00:45:41,440
Speaker 2: looking at the stock market, talking about the the budget.

841
00:45:41,840 --> 00:45:43,680
Speaker 2: All of those sort of things are sort of that

842
00:45:43,600 --> 00:45:46,239
Speaker 2: that they're markers that things are going okay. The tests

843
00:45:46,239 --> 00:45:49,520
Speaker 2: that we're talking about are more buyer markers. Following a

844
00:45:49,600 --> 00:45:52,840
Speaker 2: clinical presentation, so someone has been brought in either on

845
00:45:52,840 --> 00:45:55,520
Speaker 2: their own volition or by by a family member or

846
00:45:55,560 --> 00:45:59,319
Speaker 2: a friend, like you know, Matthew's not not Matthew's not

847
00:45:59,320 --> 00:46:00,960
Speaker 2: the same person that he seemed to be, or there

848
00:46:00,960 --> 00:46:03,560
Speaker 2: seems to be some minor, like high level stuff, and

849
00:46:03,600 --> 00:46:06,080
Speaker 2: then we would go into this sort of cognitive assessment,

850
00:46:06,480 --> 00:46:09,560
Speaker 2: and then that cognitive assessment would suggest what we need

851
00:46:09,600 --> 00:46:11,880
Speaker 2: to do, Like it might say that actually part of

852
00:46:11,920 --> 00:46:15,719
Speaker 2: it as well is assessment of anxiety and mood. So

853
00:46:15,840 --> 00:46:18,520
Speaker 2: I might score badly, but it might be like really

854
00:46:18,560 --> 00:46:22,640
Speaker 2: really down in my in my mood score, and then

855
00:46:22,680 --> 00:46:25,360
Speaker 2: if I can improve my mood score, does the cognitive

856
00:46:25,600 --> 00:46:28,800
Speaker 2: process come out. And that's people use these word pseudo dementia,

857
00:46:28,840 --> 00:46:31,640
Speaker 2: so in other words, it's not really dementia, it's something

858
00:46:31,680 --> 00:46:35,120
Speaker 2: else that's triggering the process. We'd also then you know,

859
00:46:35,200 --> 00:46:38,920
Speaker 2: look at you know, blood test results, vitamin levels, thyroid function,

860
00:46:39,080 --> 00:46:42,279
Speaker 2: these are all markers that will help brain function and

861
00:46:42,320 --> 00:46:44,720
Speaker 2: they could account for the presentation wow.

862
00:46:45,280 --> 00:46:53,200
Speaker 1: And so like this whole an ecosystem around the outcome

863
00:46:54,239 --> 00:46:56,360
Speaker 1: is pretty important. It's not just one thing. It's not

864
00:46:56,400 --> 00:46:57,759
Speaker 1: just going to sit in front of your Olgers and

865
00:46:57,800 --> 00:46:59,880
Speaker 1: he goes, oh, you've got it or you got to

866
00:47:00,160 --> 00:47:03,279
Speaker 1: stage and what's the progress there? So, I mean, where

867
00:47:03,280 --> 00:47:06,120
Speaker 1: would someone end up. Let's say someone starts at seventy

868
00:47:06,160 --> 00:47:11,600
Speaker 1: either got early dementia and you know diagnosed, is it

869
00:47:11,640 --> 00:47:15,279
Speaker 1: ten years or fifteen years? A minute? And then how

870
00:47:15,320 --> 00:47:16,200
Speaker 1: are they at the end of it?

871
00:47:16,520 --> 00:47:19,680
Speaker 2: Well, the beauty is back to the autonomy issue. People

872
00:47:19,719 --> 00:47:22,200
Speaker 2: can have some control of the modifiable risk factor. So

873
00:47:22,280 --> 00:47:24,120
Speaker 2: let's say I was not scoring as well as I

874
00:47:24,160 --> 00:47:26,279
Speaker 2: should be, or I'd been measuring it over the last

875
00:47:26,320 --> 00:47:28,120
Speaker 2: ten years and I'm starting.

876
00:47:27,760 --> 00:47:28,439
Speaker 1: To drop off.

877
00:47:28,760 --> 00:47:32,640
Speaker 2: If I start to adjust some of my lifestyle factors

878
00:47:32,880 --> 00:47:35,160
Speaker 2: and some of the blood results I've got, can I

879
00:47:35,160 --> 00:47:37,920
Speaker 2: either plateau out or start to raise it again. And

880
00:47:38,239 --> 00:47:40,239
Speaker 2: these are things that yes, we can do. So when

881
00:47:40,280 --> 00:47:42,799
Speaker 2: you say is it ten years is at fifteen years. Well, no,

882
00:47:43,000 --> 00:47:47,800
Speaker 2: it's all modifiable. So forty five percent is modifiable. So

883
00:47:47,840 --> 00:47:51,480
Speaker 2: you've got control, right, So as long as you know that, yeah,

884
00:47:51,520 --> 00:47:52,920
Speaker 2: as long as you know so long as you've been

885
00:47:52,960 --> 00:47:54,799
Speaker 2: tested and as well, and part of that as well

886
00:47:54,840 --> 00:47:56,879
Speaker 2: blood pressure. So how often you get blood pressure checked

887
00:47:56,880 --> 00:47:58,919
Speaker 2: by a general practitioner if you're not seeing a general

888
00:47:58,920 --> 00:48:01,560
Speaker 2: practition again see practition to get your blood pressure.

889
00:48:01,440 --> 00:48:03,120
Speaker 1: Gown by one of those omor on things what they're

890
00:48:03,120 --> 00:48:04,600
Speaker 1: called from the chemist. So I go one a home

891
00:48:05,080 --> 00:48:08,720
Speaker 1: just every day. Probably it would be great if because

892
00:48:08,719 --> 00:48:10,839
Speaker 1: somehow I talked to my phone there could be some

893
00:48:10,880 --> 00:48:13,239
Speaker 1: sort of app to it that I could actually you

894
00:48:13,239 --> 00:48:15,319
Speaker 1: probably can get it minds old, but actually I can

895
00:48:15,360 --> 00:48:17,080
Speaker 1: have a record of I can actually see the changes.

896
00:48:17,120 --> 00:48:20,759
Speaker 1: But that's happening. It's a hundred bucks because a hundred

897
00:48:20,800 --> 00:48:23,000
Speaker 1: bucks and the whole family can use it and you

898
00:48:23,040 --> 00:48:27,960
Speaker 1: can use it forever and so but in the end,

899
00:48:28,840 --> 00:48:32,840
Speaker 1: what is a person from dementia die from? Very good question.

900
00:48:33,719 --> 00:48:36,440
Speaker 2: It doesn't kill them, does it? Well, it does, but

901
00:48:36,520 --> 00:48:40,759
Speaker 2: it's back to the brain is the sort of executive

902
00:48:40,760 --> 00:48:44,040
Speaker 2: function controlling all other organs. So usually part of that

903
00:48:44,200 --> 00:48:47,800
Speaker 2: is you're breathing, so you don't necessarily, you know, breathe

904
00:48:47,840 --> 00:48:51,200
Speaker 2: as as quickly and as deeply as normal, so that

905
00:48:51,440 --> 00:48:53,640
Speaker 2: you know the base of the lungs don't fill up

906
00:48:53,760 --> 00:48:56,719
Speaker 2: with air as they normally do. Some fluid might stay

907
00:48:56,760 --> 00:48:59,160
Speaker 2: down there. You might aspirate, so you might swallow your

908
00:48:59,160 --> 00:49:02,440
Speaker 2: food incorrectly. There'll be a chest infection. You die for pneumonia,

909
00:49:02,520 --> 00:49:05,279
Speaker 2: So you die for pneumonia. That's the most common. But alternatively,

910
00:49:05,360 --> 00:49:08,000
Speaker 2: it also does control you know, your heart, your heart rhythm.

911
00:49:08,239 --> 00:49:11,120
Speaker 2: People have heart attacks that they just die in their sleep.

912
00:49:11,680 --> 00:49:14,560
Speaker 2: So the brain is controlling all of these functions. But yeah,

913
00:49:14,880 --> 00:49:15,839
Speaker 2: that's how you die.

914
00:49:16,480 --> 00:49:20,680
Speaker 1: As you know, my mother was went to the other

915
00:49:20,719 --> 00:49:22,880
Speaker 1: place you used to be at Brandon Mind Center when

916
00:49:22,880 --> 00:49:25,000
Speaker 1: she had motor neurone disease, and she died of motor

917
00:49:25,080 --> 00:49:29,120
Speaker 1: neurone disease. And it's a it's a crappy way to die,

918
00:49:29,239 --> 00:49:31,839
Speaker 1: to be honest, it's one of the worst. I've seen

919
00:49:31,880 --> 00:49:33,839
Speaker 1: lots of people pass away and that's the worst thing

920
00:49:33,880 --> 00:49:41,000
Speaker 1: I've ever seen. Motor neurone disease is different to dementia.

921
00:49:41,200 --> 00:49:45,839
Speaker 1: And say, someone like me, who's you know, I've had

922
00:49:45,880 --> 00:49:50,719
Speaker 1: lots of concussions, mini concussions, and major concussions. Is there

923
00:49:51,120 --> 00:49:58,319
Speaker 1: any scientific evidence or statistical evidence about and that correlates

924
00:49:59,080 --> 00:50:02,200
Speaker 1: concussions to als or motori disease.

925
00:50:03,280 --> 00:50:06,799
Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, just to put it into a bit of perspective, So,

926
00:50:07,040 --> 00:50:12,400
Speaker 2: motor neurone disease is a neurodegenerative condition. A neurodegeneration incorporates dimension.

927
00:50:12,480 --> 00:50:16,720
Speaker 2: Dementia is due to say Alzheimer's disease or vascular dimension

928
00:50:16,800 --> 00:50:19,560
Speaker 2: that we've talked about. Modeor neurine disease is due to

929
00:50:19,560 --> 00:50:22,000
Speaker 2: a protein abnormality in the brain as well, called TDP

930
00:50:22,160 --> 00:50:26,840
Speaker 2: forty three. It tends to affect particularly the motor pathway,

931
00:50:26,920 --> 00:50:29,440
Speaker 2: so the cordico spinal tract, which is a tract that

932
00:50:29,520 --> 00:50:33,080
Speaker 2: goes through the brain and spinal col cord and controls

933
00:50:33,080 --> 00:50:36,840
Speaker 2: all of our voluntary muscles. So the motor neurine itself

934
00:50:36,920 --> 00:50:39,280
Speaker 2: is one of the biggest cells in the body. Sometimes

935
00:50:39,280 --> 00:50:41,600
Speaker 2: it's up to one point four meters long and has

936
00:50:41,719 --> 00:50:45,880
Speaker 2: huge metabodys one point one point four meters. It's huge,

937
00:50:46,320 --> 00:50:50,080
Speaker 2: that's massive, massive, but it has high metabolic needs and

938
00:50:50,160 --> 00:50:54,200
Speaker 2: it means what it requires a lot of, you know, protein.

939
00:50:55,040 --> 00:50:57,480
Speaker 2: It's very sensitive to not having things, you know, waste

940
00:50:57,560 --> 00:51:00,680
Speaker 2: cleared out properly, so it needs you know, all the

941
00:51:00,719 --> 00:51:04,520
Speaker 2: things we've talked about healthy sleeping habits are good protein,

942
00:51:04,640 --> 00:51:09,960
Speaker 2: good nutrition, and exercise. But for what for some individuals

943
00:51:09,960 --> 00:51:14,360
Speaker 2: in the community, they're prone to having a disease whereby

944
00:51:14,680 --> 00:51:18,160
Speaker 2: the degeneration occurs in the mode and urine itself, and

945
00:51:18,239 --> 00:51:22,120
Speaker 2: so people start to develop weakness. It's usually focal. So

946
00:51:22,520 --> 00:51:25,279
Speaker 2: in our clinics, I think we give a picture of

947
00:51:25,280 --> 00:51:27,200
Speaker 2: a human and we so where did the disease begin?

948
00:51:27,520 --> 00:51:29,640
Speaker 2: And they can always pinpoint whether it began in my

949
00:51:29,719 --> 00:51:32,279
Speaker 2: right hand, whether it began in my mouth, where it

950
00:51:32,280 --> 00:51:32,879
Speaker 2: began in my.

951
00:51:32,880 --> 00:51:34,800
Speaker 1: Left legatis the patient.

952
00:51:34,840 --> 00:51:37,040
Speaker 2: So it always begins, it seems to begin in one

953
00:51:37,200 --> 00:51:40,040
Speaker 2: area and then it starts to spread and become a

954
00:51:40,040 --> 00:51:41,120
Speaker 2: bit more generalized.

955
00:51:41,200 --> 00:51:44,840
Speaker 1: So just explain where that cell is that one point

956
00:51:44,920 --> 00:51:45,600
Speaker 1: four meter.

957
00:51:46,239 --> 00:51:49,080
Speaker 2: So it starts in the brain and goes all the

958
00:51:49,080 --> 00:51:51,719
Speaker 2: way down through the spinal cord, and then there's what

959
00:51:51,760 --> 00:51:54,400
Speaker 2: we call a sign apse to what we call the

960
00:51:54,440 --> 00:51:57,279
Speaker 2: lower mode in urine, which comes out and goes into

961
00:51:57,320 --> 00:51:59,160
Speaker 2: the nerve for instance, of your arm or your leg,

962
00:51:59,280 --> 00:52:00,360
Speaker 2: or into the tongue.

963
00:52:00,520 --> 00:52:03,600
Speaker 1: So long skinny cellars that must be quite skinny if

964
00:52:03,600 --> 00:52:06,920
Speaker 1: it's going down. Yeah, we'll talk about microscopic. Yeah, microscope,

965
00:52:06,960 --> 00:52:09,799
Speaker 1: but it's always get one point four meters in length

966
00:52:10,040 --> 00:52:12,320
Speaker 1: up to one point four death. Wow.

967
00:52:12,520 --> 00:52:15,320
Speaker 2: But it controls everything you're doing now, like talking, moving

968
00:52:15,320 --> 00:52:16,040
Speaker 2: your hands.

969
00:52:15,760 --> 00:52:17,839
Speaker 1: Your leg. So it's not your brain that does it,

970
00:52:17,840 --> 00:52:18,919
Speaker 1: it's the well.

971
00:52:18,840 --> 00:52:21,840
Speaker 2: The control is through the brain and central the central

972
00:52:21,880 --> 00:52:23,920
Speaker 2: mode of neurine is there in the brain.

973
00:52:23,760 --> 00:52:26,160
Speaker 1: Right, and and that's the thing that controls all your

974
00:52:26,200 --> 00:52:28,520
Speaker 1: motor motor skills what are you want to call it?

975
00:52:28,760 --> 00:52:33,920
Speaker 1: And and so just going back a step on that,

976
00:52:34,680 --> 00:52:37,120
Speaker 1: I remember one of the things they did to my

977
00:52:37,200 --> 00:52:39,800
Speaker 1: mother's they were they did it on the hands. They're

978
00:52:39,800 --> 00:52:42,520
Speaker 1: putting pins in it like I don't know, stimulating her

979
00:52:42,600 --> 00:52:44,920
Speaker 1: hand Yep, that's how she got diagnosed.

980
00:52:45,360 --> 00:52:49,919
Speaker 2: Yeah, So neurophysiology is the critical part of a diagnosis.

981
00:52:49,960 --> 00:52:55,120
Speaker 2: That's that's the investigation. And nerves and muscles are electrically active,

982
00:52:55,640 --> 00:52:58,520
Speaker 2: so the signals going down through the nerve that go

983
00:52:58,600 --> 00:53:01,640
Speaker 2: to the muscle that keeps the muscle live. If the muscle,

984
00:53:01,680 --> 00:53:04,879
Speaker 2: if the nerve is damaged, the muscle starts firing off

985
00:53:04,880 --> 00:53:08,680
Speaker 2: by itself, and a manifestation of that might be muscle twitching.

986
00:53:08,960 --> 00:53:11,640
Speaker 2: But if we put a needle into the muscle and

987
00:53:11,719 --> 00:53:14,600
Speaker 2: it's firing off by itself, so in other words, the

988
00:53:14,680 --> 00:53:17,719
Speaker 2: patient isn't controlling it's going. It's just firing units going

989
00:53:17,719 --> 00:53:21,239
Speaker 2: bang bang bang bang bang. That's a feature of nerve

990
00:53:21,320 --> 00:53:22,960
Speaker 2: damage to that particular muscle.

991
00:53:23,400 --> 00:53:24,000
Speaker 1: Now, if, for.

992
00:53:23,920 --> 00:53:26,200
Speaker 2: Instance, you know you're working as a butcher and you

993
00:53:26,280 --> 00:53:29,920
Speaker 2: accidentally cut the nerve and that muscle was affected, that

994
00:53:29,960 --> 00:53:32,239
Speaker 2: makes sense. But if I start putting needles into lots

995
00:53:32,239 --> 00:53:35,320
Speaker 2: of different areas and getting the same results, it suggesting

996
00:53:35,400 --> 00:53:39,160
Speaker 2: there's a more widespread abnormality of nerve and muscle function,

997
00:53:39,320 --> 00:53:42,920
Speaker 2: and that's what is typically the picture of modeer neurine disease.

998
00:53:43,000 --> 00:53:45,920
Speaker 2: So with your mother, it'll be testing muscles in the

999
00:53:46,040 --> 00:53:48,879
Speaker 2: arms and the legs and the speech muscles, and if

1000
00:53:48,880 --> 00:53:52,480
Speaker 2: they're all affected, that's, you know, that's the sign of

1001
00:53:52,560 --> 00:53:53,600
Speaker 2: modern neurine disease.

1002
00:53:53,800 --> 00:53:58,520
Speaker 1: So her first sign of there being a problem was

1003
00:53:58,600 --> 00:54:02,040
Speaker 1: that I used to ring her every night, so I'll

1004
00:54:02,040 --> 00:54:04,279
Speaker 1: be going home and my way home from work on

1005
00:54:04,400 --> 00:54:06,640
Speaker 1: ring her. My mother loves to speak talk a lot,

1006
00:54:06,680 --> 00:54:10,440
Speaker 1: and she's a Orish descent, so Irish people love to

1007
00:54:10,480 --> 00:54:12,920
Speaker 1: have a chat, so I would recall the moment I

1008
00:54:12,960 --> 00:54:14,399
Speaker 1: got my car, because I knew it was twenty five

1009
00:54:14,440 --> 00:54:16,000
Speaker 1: minutes to get home, so I could sort of limit

1010
00:54:16,040 --> 00:54:17,239
Speaker 1: the time and say, mom my home, Now I'm going

1011
00:54:17,280 --> 00:54:20,839
Speaker 1: to have a dinner. So but I noticed she didn't drink.

1012
00:54:21,120 --> 00:54:25,800
Speaker 1: I noticed that she started to sound like she was drunk,

1013
00:54:25,920 --> 00:54:28,239
Speaker 1: not drunk, but slurring her words, like a person who

1014
00:54:28,239 --> 00:54:30,320
Speaker 1: has been drinking would sound not bad, but just a

1015
00:54:30,400 --> 00:54:34,279
Speaker 1: little bit slurring. And she was always very articular. And

1016
00:54:34,360 --> 00:54:36,560
Speaker 1: I said to her, are you drinking, like having a

1017
00:54:36,560 --> 00:54:40,040
Speaker 1: whisky with dad or something like that, and she said no, no, no,

1018
00:54:40,120 --> 00:54:45,160
Speaker 1: And then that's when we decided to get her checked out.

1019
00:54:45,719 --> 00:54:49,640
Speaker 1: Does it normally start off in the speech, So.

1020
00:54:49,680 --> 00:54:52,280
Speaker 2: There's three areas really were a beginning, So it's usually

1021
00:54:52,480 --> 00:54:55,000
Speaker 2: upper limonset is the most common, so in your arms,

1022
00:54:55,560 --> 00:55:00,160
Speaker 2: then lower leg so leg weakness is the second, and

1023
00:55:00,200 --> 00:55:02,880
Speaker 2: speech is the third, so you call it bulbar onset.

1024
00:55:03,000 --> 00:55:05,520
Speaker 2: So it's the tongue muscle, so the tongue has become weak.

1025
00:55:05,520 --> 00:55:07,719
Speaker 1: So she would have had those other things before.

1026
00:55:08,000 --> 00:55:11,880
Speaker 2: Necessarily, so it can begin in the mouth. And I

1027
00:55:11,920 --> 00:55:15,400
Speaker 2: suppose it's interesting that humans are the only ones who

1028
00:55:15,440 --> 00:55:18,680
Speaker 2: have a form of communication like speech, and that's also

1029
00:55:18,880 --> 00:55:22,080
Speaker 2: an are that that's where mode neurone disease begins. Another

1030
00:55:22,120 --> 00:55:24,440
Speaker 2: area where it begins is the pincer grip in the hand,

1031
00:55:24,800 --> 00:55:27,360
Speaker 2: and we're the only mammalian species who can do a

1032
00:55:27,400 --> 00:55:29,480
Speaker 2: pincer grip. But then when you look at the motors

1033
00:55:29,480 --> 00:55:31,960
Speaker 2: strip in the brain, the two biggest areas they have

1034
00:55:32,080 --> 00:55:36,160
Speaker 2: massive representation are the bulbar region and the thumb and

1035
00:55:36,160 --> 00:55:40,840
Speaker 2: the index finger the bulbarth Yeah, so that's been evolution.

1036
00:55:41,080 --> 00:55:43,400
Speaker 2: Our brains have grown in those regions so that we

1037
00:55:43,440 --> 00:55:47,600
Speaker 2: can speak, we can do this pincer grip. But as

1038
00:55:47,600 --> 00:55:50,640
Speaker 2: a result, it's got huge metabolic demand. And when there's

1039
00:55:50,680 --> 00:55:53,880
Speaker 2: a failure of that network, how does it manifest? Speech

1040
00:55:53,960 --> 00:55:57,840
Speaker 2: goes off or upper limb function, particularly pincer grip is diminished.

1041
00:55:58,000 --> 00:56:01,680
Speaker 1: So has the disease has got something to do with

1042
00:56:01,760 --> 00:56:07,680
Speaker 1: the metabolic demand not being satisfied? Yeah, or is it?

1043
00:56:08,120 --> 00:56:12,960
Speaker 1: Let's rule genetics out. Is it because the metabolic demand

1044
00:56:13,560 --> 00:56:15,640
Speaker 1: is not being met In other words, I'm neither not

1045
00:56:16,400 --> 00:56:18,879
Speaker 1: a blood flying there, but no of nutrients getting in there?

1046
00:56:19,840 --> 00:56:20,319
Speaker 1: What is it?

1047
00:56:20,360 --> 00:56:23,560
Speaker 2: Most likely that is the case, and there's a probably

1048
00:56:23,560 --> 00:56:27,480
Speaker 2: a threshold what gets something over a threshold for an abnormality,

1049
00:56:27,520 --> 00:56:30,960
Speaker 2: and it's probably cellular failure and that leads to a

1050
00:56:31,040 --> 00:56:35,200
Speaker 2: protein abnormality, a folding protein abnormality in this case TDP

1051
00:56:35,400 --> 00:56:39,399
Speaker 2: forty three. And that's then that we use the word

1052
00:56:39,520 --> 00:56:42,000
Speaker 2: notice it's the origin, and then the origin starts to

1053
00:56:42,040 --> 00:56:45,040
Speaker 2: spread out like a fire spreading through the brain or

1054
00:56:45,040 --> 00:56:47,040
Speaker 2: through the motor pathways.

1055
00:56:48,080 --> 00:56:51,000
Speaker 1: And are there any treatments yet.

1056
00:56:52,000 --> 00:56:56,560
Speaker 2: Well, in terms of why individuals get it, we know

1057
00:56:56,600 --> 00:57:00,279
Speaker 2: that there's genetic abnormalities and there's been large study has

1058
00:57:00,320 --> 00:57:02,879
Speaker 2: been one study that was done here in Australia and

1059
00:57:03,239 --> 00:57:07,680
Speaker 2: in Japan and Korea showing that they needed to be

1060
00:57:07,760 --> 00:57:10,200
Speaker 2: six things to happen for someone to develop mode of

1061
00:57:10,280 --> 00:57:14,920
Speaker 2: neurone disease, six hits and if there is a gene

1062
00:57:14,960 --> 00:57:17,040
Speaker 2: in the family that accounts for three of the hits,

1063
00:57:17,040 --> 00:57:20,040
Speaker 2: then the other three are at this stage unknown.

1064
00:57:21,240 --> 00:57:22,400
Speaker 1: But if there is.

1065
00:57:22,360 --> 00:57:25,560
Speaker 2: A genetic abnormality, there is now genetic treatment so to

1066
00:57:25,640 --> 00:57:28,000
Speaker 2: first one was approved in May of this year twenty

1067
00:57:28,040 --> 00:57:32,360
Speaker 2: twenty six, that's now available to treat superoxide dismutes one

1068
00:57:32,440 --> 00:57:37,040
Speaker 2: SOD one genetic forms of als. Then we have neuroprotective therapy.

1069
00:57:37,120 --> 00:57:40,240
Speaker 2: So really zola is available and that was through clinical

1070
00:57:40,280 --> 00:57:42,040
Speaker 2: trials that we were actually part of in the mid

1071
00:57:42,080 --> 00:57:45,440
Speaker 2: nineteen nineties and that was approved in Australia in twenty

1072
00:57:45,480 --> 00:57:49,000
Speaker 2: twenty five, two thousand and five. And the second medication

1073
00:57:49,320 --> 00:57:52,440
Speaker 2: is a darovone already kava, which is an intravenous infusion,

1074
00:57:53,080 --> 00:57:55,040
Speaker 2: and that was approved in twenty twenty five. So the

1075
00:57:55,080 --> 00:57:57,680
Speaker 2: other three approved the medications in a space you've got it.

1076
00:57:58,000 --> 00:58:01,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, So it's and what's and what's its success rate

1077
00:58:01,960 --> 00:58:03,360
Speaker 1: like efficacy in terms.

1078
00:58:03,160 --> 00:58:05,400
Speaker 2: Of well, the idea is to keep people in the

1079
00:58:05,440 --> 00:58:08,320
Speaker 2: mildiforms for longer and so the patients are living with

1080
00:58:08,400 --> 00:58:11,640
Speaker 2: the disease for a longer period of time, less affected.

1081
00:58:12,360 --> 00:58:17,320
Speaker 1: Right. So, but you mentioned with some forms of dementia

1082
00:58:17,440 --> 00:58:20,680
Speaker 1: that there are lifestyle actors that can improve dementia. Other

1083
00:58:20,760 --> 00:58:23,920
Speaker 1: lifestyle actors can improve.

1084
00:58:23,640 --> 00:58:25,800
Speaker 2: Well some of the factors that are still relevant. But

1085
00:58:25,880 --> 00:58:29,640
Speaker 2: you know, in physical exercise but not too much. And

1086
00:58:29,800 --> 00:58:34,680
Speaker 2: there has been, I suppose an understanding that sports people

1087
00:58:34,680 --> 00:58:37,400
Speaker 2: are more commonly affected. So for instance, in America, it's

1088
00:58:37,400 --> 00:58:42,400
Speaker 2: called Lugerrig's disease. Lugeeric developed als in his thirties and

1089
00:58:42,720 --> 00:58:47,560
Speaker 2: obviously we've seen a lot of tennis players, Brad Drewett,

1090
00:58:47,600 --> 00:58:53,040
Speaker 2: Peter Dowen, We've seen rugby players have been affected. So

1091
00:58:53,160 --> 00:58:58,440
Speaker 2: this AFL Neil Danaher, who's totally Neil Danaher and Fighter

1092
00:58:58,560 --> 00:59:01,120
Speaker 2: and D are the third largest unders of modern neurone

1093
00:59:01,120 --> 00:59:06,240
Speaker 2: disease research globally, Like, isn't that amazing from Australia And

1094
00:59:06,240 --> 00:59:08,360
Speaker 2: who's the other fight M and D which is what

1095
00:59:08,440 --> 00:59:09,240
Speaker 2: he established.

1096
00:59:09,760 --> 00:59:12,439
Speaker 1: Wow, third biggest in the world. In the world. Yeah,

1097
00:59:13,200 --> 00:59:16,040
Speaker 1: it's amazing. That's fantastic. It's fantastic.

1098
00:59:16,320 --> 00:59:19,680
Speaker 2: So what are the some of the lifestyle things though,

1099
00:59:19,680 --> 00:59:24,840
Speaker 2: Matthew like, well, these are complicated discussions, but certainly we

1100
00:59:24,960 --> 00:59:29,840
Speaker 2: know that head injuries form part of that discussion. And

1101
00:59:29,880 --> 00:59:31,280
Speaker 2: there was a study that came out a couple of

1102
00:59:31,360 --> 00:59:35,280
Speaker 2: years ago showing higher incidences of neurodegenerative diseases, including mode

1103
00:59:35,360 --> 00:59:40,920
Speaker 2: neurone disease in contact athletes, particularly professional high level contact.

1104
00:59:40,480 --> 00:59:42,120
Speaker 1: Athletes like NFL and stuff like that.

1105
00:59:42,200 --> 00:59:44,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, And I think that the study came

1106
00:59:44,920 --> 00:59:47,640
Speaker 2: I think from the Scottish brain banks, so they've had

1107
00:59:47,640 --> 00:59:50,960
Speaker 2: a lot of Scottish rugby union players and they made

1108
00:59:51,000 --> 00:59:54,840
Speaker 2: that connection. It's similar here. And I know that the

1109
00:59:54,920 --> 00:59:57,880
Speaker 2: Rugby codes are very interested and they're very concerned about it,

1110
00:59:57,880 --> 00:59:59,600
Speaker 2: and they're putting a lot of focus on it in

1111
01:00:00,160 --> 01:00:02,919
Speaker 2: the AFL and the NRL to try and understand these

1112
01:00:02,920 --> 01:00:07,200
Speaker 2: conditions better. But it's a form of research, so we

1113
01:00:07,280 --> 01:00:10,640
Speaker 2: still don't have, you know, one hundred percent diagnostic approach

1114
01:00:10,680 --> 01:00:14,880
Speaker 2: for chronic traumatic and caphilopathy CTE, and part of that

1115
01:00:15,480 --> 01:00:18,840
Speaker 2: is really diagnosed by doing the post mortem examination.

1116
01:00:19,160 --> 01:00:20,880
Speaker 1: Maybe you could explain it because a lot of people

1117
01:00:20,920 --> 01:00:24,400
Speaker 1: come and say I've been I've heard them, I know them,

1118
01:00:24,600 --> 01:00:27,720
Speaker 1: I've been diagnosed with the CTE, And as I understand it,

1119
01:00:27,760 --> 01:00:29,920
Speaker 1: you can't do that until you actually get hold of

1120
01:00:29,920 --> 01:00:32,600
Speaker 1: their brain once they passed away to do the actual diagnosis.

1121
01:00:32,680 --> 01:00:35,640
Speaker 2: That's exactly it, and every approach that's been used up

1122
01:00:35,720 --> 01:00:39,080
Speaker 2: till now has been unsuccessful. And in whole groups where

1123
01:00:39,080 --> 01:00:41,080
Speaker 2: people said, oh there's a ct and they go and

1124
01:00:41,120 --> 01:00:45,720
Speaker 2: to the postmodern examination, there's no neuropathological evidence of ct.

1125
01:00:45,800 --> 01:00:47,640
Speaker 1: Maybe you could explain what it looks like. I've seen

1126
01:00:47,640 --> 01:00:49,080
Speaker 1: it because I've been to the brain bang at it

1127
01:00:50,680 --> 01:00:53,920
Speaker 1: a Brain of Mind center, and in fact I made

1128
01:00:53,920 --> 01:00:55,520
Speaker 1: a big donation and then said to them they can

1129
01:00:55,560 --> 01:00:58,160
Speaker 1: have my brain when I pass away if they want

1130
01:00:58,200 --> 01:01:01,200
Speaker 1: to do evenuevary. But they showed me when it was

1131
01:01:01,240 --> 01:01:04,840
Speaker 1: actually like a so here's your brain, like you know,

1132
01:01:05,000 --> 01:01:07,960
Speaker 1: that's sort of wrinkly sorting and there was a big

1133
01:01:08,280 --> 01:01:11,760
Speaker 1: sort of dent like that is that is that? Am I? Right? So?

1134
01:01:11,880 --> 01:01:15,360
Speaker 2: Look there are holes in the brain where fluid passes

1135
01:01:15,400 --> 01:01:18,840
Speaker 2: through and they become bigger, and the cell the cell

1136
01:01:18,920 --> 01:01:21,160
Speaker 2: processes of the brain becomes smaller, so they shrink, so

1137
01:01:21,160 --> 01:01:23,840
Speaker 2: you get shrinkage of different areas. You can also get

1138
01:01:23,920 --> 01:01:26,560
Speaker 2: then it's like scar tissue building up in the brain

1139
01:01:27,600 --> 01:01:29,880
Speaker 2: and the space has become bigger. That's and then there's

1140
01:01:29,920 --> 01:01:30,760
Speaker 2: certain patterns.

1141
01:01:31,320 --> 01:01:33,120
Speaker 1: But but why can't you look at that under an

1142
01:01:33,200 --> 01:01:35,160
Speaker 1: MRI or a machine.

1143
01:01:35,280 --> 01:01:36,800
Speaker 2: Well, there are so many other things that could also

1144
01:01:36,840 --> 01:01:40,480
Speaker 2: be affecting the brain, right, I think though that it's

1145
01:01:40,520 --> 01:01:43,000
Speaker 2: really interesting that I think we're going to get better

1146
01:01:43,360 --> 01:01:46,400
Speaker 2: by using the technology of the day. So AI with

1147
01:01:46,960 --> 01:01:50,400
Speaker 2: hundreds of thousands of scans is much better than you

1148
01:01:50,560 --> 01:01:52,360
Speaker 2: or I looking at a scan and saying it looks

1149
01:01:52,360 --> 01:01:55,080
Speaker 2: normal or it doesn't look normal like that. That's that's

1150
01:01:55,120 --> 01:01:57,440
Speaker 2: where're at today. That's all going to be a thing

1151
01:01:57,440 --> 01:01:58,360
Speaker 2: of the past.

1152
01:01:58,280 --> 01:02:01,040
Speaker 1: Like the guys from Harris and AI, those guys who

1153
01:02:01,120 --> 01:02:06,360
Speaker 1: are producing all these AI models to assist the radiologist, yes,

1154
01:02:06,560 --> 01:02:11,280
Speaker 1: and the neurologists in your case, in his or her diagnosis.

1155
01:02:11,640 --> 01:02:14,800
Speaker 2: And that's a global approach. And at neuro we're hopeful

1156
01:02:14,840 --> 01:02:18,360
Speaker 2: of signing up a partnership with IMAD and using the

1157
01:02:18,400 --> 01:02:20,800
Speaker 2: sort of the volume of practices they have to use

1158
01:02:20,840 --> 01:02:24,120
Speaker 2: AI technology to better diagnose all of the conditions we've

1159
01:02:24,160 --> 01:02:26,720
Speaker 2: been talking about, you know, today, and that's going to

1160
01:02:26,760 --> 01:02:30,360
Speaker 2: be the reality. But then also can we go earlier

1161
01:02:31,640 --> 01:02:34,320
Speaker 2: and at the moment we can't. But let's say we

1162
01:02:34,360 --> 01:02:36,240
Speaker 2: did a brain health check of a thirty year old.

1163
01:02:36,400 --> 01:02:39,720
Speaker 2: We wouldn't do an MRI scan because what are we

1164
01:02:39,760 --> 01:02:41,160
Speaker 2: going to find And what we don't want to do

1165
01:02:41,240 --> 01:02:43,479
Speaker 2: is find an incidental finding. Let's say there's a little

1166
01:02:43,520 --> 01:02:45,640
Speaker 2: cyst in the brain, what should we do about that?

1167
01:02:46,280 --> 01:02:50,280
Speaker 2: And the current understanding of incidental findings is leave them alone?

1168
01:02:50,360 --> 01:02:52,560
Speaker 2: Like that just leads to a whole you know, you

1169
01:02:52,720 --> 01:02:55,400
Speaker 2: mentioned anxiety, and you imagine the anxiety of the patient,

1170
01:02:55,440 --> 01:02:58,080
Speaker 2: of the treating doctor of the family. Do you intervene

1171
01:02:58,160 --> 01:03:01,960
Speaker 2: or nind is to not intervene, leave it alone. You

1172
01:03:02,000 --> 01:03:05,480
Speaker 2: didn't do the scan to find that that's an incidental finding.

1173
01:03:05,200 --> 01:03:07,200
Speaker 1: But maybe you do go back in five years time

1174
01:03:07,720 --> 01:03:10,240
Speaker 1: to see if there's been in delta any change. Exactly

1175
01:03:10,360 --> 01:03:13,240
Speaker 1: that's your delta. That's good, I don't you said, well,

1176
01:03:13,280 --> 01:03:15,680
Speaker 1: but yes, that's exactly it. Yeah, yeah, because as you

1177
01:03:15,720 --> 01:03:18,320
Speaker 1: know how to preneuvo. And the only reason I had

1178
01:03:18,320 --> 01:03:21,120
Speaker 1: it was not to get well. I did take it

1179
01:03:21,160 --> 01:03:22,720
Speaker 1: to you, and I took it to live specially took

1180
01:03:22,760 --> 01:03:26,400
Speaker 1: with everybody, but everybody was fine. But the point being

1181
01:03:26,440 --> 01:03:28,680
Speaker 1: here is now Prinivas or Australia, I mean I can

1182
01:03:28,680 --> 01:03:31,360
Speaker 1: go and get another one, and I presume they've got

1183
01:03:31,400 --> 01:03:33,880
Speaker 1: own their own AI systems. Now they could probably look

1184
01:03:33,880 --> 01:03:36,800
Speaker 1: at both of them, but I can someone can They

1185
01:03:36,800 --> 01:03:40,520
Speaker 1: can say well that has grown. So like one of

1186
01:03:40,520 --> 01:03:42,600
Speaker 1: the things you pointed out to me in relation to

1187
01:03:42,640 --> 01:03:44,560
Speaker 1: the scan of my brain when I had my whole

1188
01:03:44,600 --> 01:03:47,600
Speaker 1: body was I think you said, I think you use

1189
01:03:47,640 --> 01:03:52,520
Speaker 1: the word plak be used as normal because for my age,

1190
01:03:52,680 --> 01:03:55,720
Speaker 1: but if that was like double in a year or two,

1191
01:03:55,720 --> 01:03:57,320
Speaker 1: then you said, well, hang on, let's have a little.

1192
01:03:57,080 --> 01:03:59,520
Speaker 2: Bit of that. It's the yeah, and that could be

1193
01:03:59,560 --> 01:04:01,920
Speaker 2: getting part the threshold to intervene.

1194
01:04:02,080 --> 01:04:04,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, so I'm actually going to go and get

1195
01:04:04,000 --> 01:04:07,680
Speaker 1: another one. But I think down in Melbourne, it's what

1196
01:04:07,720 --> 01:04:10,600
Speaker 1: do you think about I mean, I know it's expensive,

1197
01:04:10,640 --> 01:04:14,200
Speaker 1: and you know it's easy for me to say, but

1198
01:04:14,240 --> 01:04:17,360
Speaker 1: what do you think about those sorts of processes as

1199
01:04:17,400 --> 01:04:22,800
Speaker 1: a brain doctor us getting and you can get it

1200
01:04:22,840 --> 01:04:26,200
Speaker 1: an your brain much cheaper than a whole reneuvo? But

1201
01:04:26,240 --> 01:04:27,840
Speaker 1: what about what do you think about people doing that?

1202
01:04:27,880 --> 01:04:31,680
Speaker 1: As a market say at six years of age? Should

1203
01:04:31,720 --> 01:04:33,320
Speaker 1: they think about that sort of stuff?

1204
01:04:33,560 --> 01:04:36,960
Speaker 2: Well, look, I'm a scientist and I love the brain. Yeah,

1205
01:04:36,960 --> 01:04:38,000
Speaker 2: I love all of this sort of stuff.

1206
01:04:38,040 --> 01:04:41,040
Speaker 1: You a scientists first or a clinician?

1207
01:04:41,080 --> 01:04:43,960
Speaker 2: What do you I'd say clinician your clinician, as in

1208
01:04:44,040 --> 01:04:47,760
Speaker 2: you diagnose and examine and prescribe. But we all want

1209
01:04:47,800 --> 01:04:49,959
Speaker 2: we all want better outcomes and where's that going to come.

1210
01:04:50,120 --> 01:04:51,840
Speaker 2: That's going to come from the science.

1211
01:04:51,520 --> 01:04:53,040
Speaker 1: And I think you need to explain that though. I

1212
01:04:53,400 --> 01:04:56,000
Speaker 1: think most people don't know the difference between a brain scientist,

1213
01:04:56,880 --> 01:05:00,320
Speaker 1: a neuroscientist, and a neurologist. I mean, what are the

1214
01:05:00,360 --> 01:05:04,280
Speaker 1: different roles and they know different things? True?

1215
01:05:04,640 --> 01:05:09,120
Speaker 2: Well, look I suppose in you're a neurologist is a

1216
01:05:09,160 --> 01:05:12,200
Speaker 2: doctor so you do you do medical training. A scientist

1217
01:05:12,440 --> 01:05:16,760
Speaker 2: does a science degree and they might focus on neurosciences

1218
01:05:16,840 --> 01:05:19,120
Speaker 2: and they might focus on a part of neuroscience, could

1219
01:05:19,160 --> 01:05:22,320
Speaker 2: be synapses, it could be on the pure mathematics, it

1220
01:05:22,360 --> 01:05:23,280
Speaker 2: could be unstructural.

1221
01:05:23,680 --> 01:05:24,480
Speaker 1: But I think.

1222
01:05:25,880 --> 01:05:29,680
Speaker 2: It's science unlocks the understanding. And at the beginning we

1223
01:05:29,760 --> 01:05:32,960
Speaker 2: talked about brain, you know, being their number one. We're

1224
01:05:32,960 --> 01:05:35,680
Speaker 2: careful about saying, you know, you know, cause of death

1225
01:05:35,680 --> 01:05:38,200
Speaker 2: in Australia. But to try and turn that around, we

1226
01:05:38,240 --> 01:05:41,000
Speaker 2: need people focusing on the science and why has that happened,

1227
01:05:41,280 --> 01:05:45,120
Speaker 2: and that could be anything from epidemiology, population studies, what's

1228
01:05:45,120 --> 01:05:49,800
Speaker 2: happening in you know, Sydney compared to Perth versus rural Australia.

1229
01:05:50,800 --> 01:05:53,320
Speaker 2: That's all science, and then by trying to take that

1230
01:05:53,480 --> 01:05:56,160
Speaker 2: forward to try and have a message to try and

1231
01:05:56,160 --> 01:06:01,600
Speaker 2: improve outcomes, ideally outcomes for a pop but then also

1232
01:06:01,840 --> 01:06:03,240
Speaker 2: outcomes for an individual.

1233
01:06:03,600 --> 01:06:08,360
Speaker 1: And they're any exciting maybe a tablet or whatever it

1234
01:06:08,400 --> 01:06:12,880
Speaker 1: is exciting things on the you know out there in

1235
01:06:12,880 --> 01:06:16,080
Speaker 1: the future that you know of that you guys might

1236
01:06:16,080 --> 01:06:19,160
Speaker 1: be looking at, like testing or whatever the case may be,

1237
01:06:19,800 --> 01:06:23,440
Speaker 1: for things like dementia. And we'll just leave manual disease

1238
01:06:23,640 --> 01:06:25,240
Speaker 1: leave aside, but what about dementia.

1239
01:06:25,280 --> 01:06:27,680
Speaker 2: Well, look, I think one of the most exciting things

1240
01:06:27,720 --> 01:06:31,160
Speaker 2: that's happened in medicine over the last few years has

1241
01:06:31,240 --> 01:06:36,040
Speaker 2: been the GLP one so glucagan like peptides, and these

1242
01:06:36,080 --> 01:06:39,600
Speaker 2: have come out of particularly the realm of sugar controlled

1243
01:06:39,600 --> 01:06:45,200
Speaker 2: blood sugar diabetes, and they're just so incredibly effective.

1244
01:06:45,360 --> 01:06:48,920
Speaker 1: Being ozembic for example, yeah, or mandura or whatever it's called,

1245
01:06:49,000 --> 01:06:49,760
Speaker 1: those those things.

1246
01:06:50,080 --> 01:06:52,720
Speaker 2: So it actually came from very interesting research showing that

1247
01:06:52,920 --> 01:06:55,520
Speaker 2: if you put if you had glucose, either you ingested

1248
01:06:55,560 --> 01:06:58,960
Speaker 2: it or injected it, they had different levels in the body.

1249
01:06:59,240 --> 01:07:02,480
Speaker 2: So it turns out if you ingested that something was

1250
01:07:02,560 --> 01:07:05,960
Speaker 2: released that actually brings the blood sugar levels down much

1251
01:07:05,960 --> 01:07:09,440
Speaker 2: better than if you had sugar injected. And it took

1252
01:07:09,480 --> 01:07:13,440
Speaker 2: a while that that was called gligan like peptide, so

1253
01:07:13,560 --> 01:07:17,600
Speaker 2: GLP GLP one, But GOLP one only survives in the

1254
01:07:17,600 --> 01:07:20,919
Speaker 2: body for a few minutes after you eat a meal. Really, yeah,

1255
01:07:21,240 --> 01:07:25,200
Speaker 2: so it's not really the stuff you produce. Yeah, it

1256
01:07:25,280 --> 01:07:28,280
Speaker 2: turns out there was this endocrinologist and he's working for

1257
01:07:28,280 --> 01:07:30,840
Speaker 2: the Veterans Affairs and they said, look, go and you know,

1258
01:07:30,880 --> 01:07:33,600
Speaker 2: try and work on this area in general, as they

1259
01:07:33,680 --> 01:07:36,480
Speaker 2: just went through virtually like encyclopedias. And he found this

1260
01:07:36,520 --> 01:07:39,640
Speaker 2: thing called a Gila monster, and a Gila monster had

1261
01:07:39,680 --> 01:07:44,840
Speaker 2: pancreatic overgrowth but also could slow their metabolism down and

1262
01:07:45,320 --> 01:07:49,320
Speaker 2: manage blood sugar control. And so he off line. He

1263
01:07:49,400 --> 01:07:51,880
Speaker 2: went and found some of the venom of this Gila monster,

1264
01:07:51,920 --> 01:07:52,640
Speaker 2: and then he animals it.

1265
01:07:52,640 --> 01:07:54,840
Speaker 1: Was a national animal, yeah, g LA.

1266
01:07:55,640 --> 01:08:00,720
Speaker 2: And he found a new substance called extendon, and extendon

1267
01:08:00,800 --> 01:08:05,200
Speaker 2: looked like glucagan like peptide, and he thought this could

1268
01:08:05,280 --> 01:08:07,880
Speaker 2: be the key. So he went back to his bosses

1269
01:08:07,920 --> 01:08:09,840
Speaker 2: at Veterans' Affairs and he said, look, I think I

1270
01:08:09,880 --> 01:08:11,880
Speaker 2: found something. And I said, look, it's not relevant for us,

1271
01:08:11,880 --> 01:08:14,440
Speaker 2: because we're only interested in veterans, more interested in you know,

1272
01:08:14,520 --> 01:08:17,000
Speaker 2: blast Day's spinal cord injury. We're not interested in this

1273
01:08:17,040 --> 01:08:19,040
Speaker 2: sort of stuff. But he thought he's onto something, so

1274
01:08:19,120 --> 01:08:23,200
Speaker 2: he patented himself. He had to put a take a

1275
01:08:23,320 --> 01:08:27,000
Speaker 2: loan out on the house, and then basically it was

1276
01:08:27,000 --> 01:08:29,679
Speaker 2: becoming very, very expensive. So he then went and presented

1277
01:08:29,680 --> 01:08:34,360
Speaker 2: at the American Diabetes Association, and a person from a

1278
01:08:34,400 --> 01:08:38,120
Speaker 2: small therapeutics company, Ammelon came along and thought this is fascinating,

1279
01:08:38,240 --> 01:08:42,000
Speaker 2: called up his bosses that straight away and they came

1280
01:08:42,080 --> 01:08:45,679
Speaker 2: up to a licensing agreement that was eventually then taken

1281
01:08:45,760 --> 01:08:49,320
Speaker 2: on with Lily. And that is the whole GLP one.

1282
01:08:49,600 --> 01:08:53,800
Speaker 2: So extendon would turn GLP one instead of disappearing within

1283
01:08:54,000 --> 01:08:56,360
Speaker 2: a few minutes, could make it last in the body

1284
01:08:56,400 --> 01:08:58,720
Speaker 2: for hours four to twenty four hours. And this all

1285
01:08:58,760 --> 01:09:01,800
Speaker 2: came from the skill was that a lizard. So I

1286
01:09:01,840 --> 01:09:04,599
Speaker 2: suppose that also shows discoveries come from anywhere. But you've

1287
01:09:04,600 --> 01:09:08,720
Speaker 2: got to have curiosity, the curiosity like this guy thought, oh,

1288
01:09:08,720 --> 01:09:11,120
Speaker 2: this is interesting. There's a lizard that has a big

1289
01:09:11,160 --> 01:09:13,759
Speaker 2: pancreas that must be doing something about, you know, blood

1290
01:09:13,760 --> 01:09:16,360
Speaker 2: sugar control. And that's where it's all come from.

1291
01:09:16,760 --> 01:09:20,680
Speaker 1: And where is GOLP one fit into Brainhill? Now got

1292
01:09:20,680 --> 01:09:22,040
Speaker 1: distracted there for a lot now, but it was a

1293
01:09:22,040 --> 01:09:23,000
Speaker 1: great story. I love it.

1294
01:09:23,160 --> 01:09:26,599
Speaker 2: But what's very interesting is that GP one was used

1295
01:09:26,640 --> 01:09:29,360
Speaker 2: for blood sugar control and in the studies that and

1296
01:09:29,360 --> 01:09:31,400
Speaker 2: this is all you know. Publishing the best journals of

1297
01:09:31,400 --> 01:09:33,880
Speaker 2: the world, New England Journal of Medicine, landst et cetera.

1298
01:09:34,720 --> 01:09:38,200
Speaker 2: They're also now seeing that cognitive function is improved in

1299
01:09:38,760 --> 01:09:42,040
Speaker 2: diabetics treated with this family of medications.

1300
01:09:42,320 --> 01:09:43,200
Speaker 1: So that's established.

1301
01:09:43,240 --> 01:09:46,040
Speaker 2: So if you have altered blood sugar control and you

1302
01:09:46,080 --> 01:09:50,960
Speaker 2: get treated with these medications, you preserve brain health as

1303
01:09:50,960 --> 01:09:54,000
Speaker 2: opposed to not having the treatment. Now the next question is, Okay,

1304
01:09:54,040 --> 01:09:57,959
Speaker 2: they're in diabetic patients. What about patients with anonymer disease. Yeah,

1305
01:09:58,280 --> 01:10:00,200
Speaker 2: and so that's cutting ENGINEW. So the t I was

1306
01:10:00,280 --> 01:10:04,519
Speaker 2: underway in Alzum's disease with GLP one, and I think

1307
01:10:04,520 --> 01:10:06,840
Speaker 2: this is where it's really going to start breaking open.

1308
01:10:07,120 --> 01:10:09,559
Speaker 2: And again we're going to see the importance of metabolic health,

1309
01:10:09,720 --> 01:10:13,440
Speaker 2: brain health, frailty all coming together. But then the individual

1310
01:10:13,520 --> 01:10:15,880
Speaker 2: GP is going to be able to unlock all of

1311
01:10:15,920 --> 01:10:18,559
Speaker 2: this with the markets coming from the patient. So it's

1312
01:10:18,600 --> 01:10:21,040
Speaker 2: going to be fascinating, but I think it's going to

1313
01:10:21,439 --> 01:10:23,720
Speaker 2: really improve our outcomes as a community.

1314
01:10:24,120 --> 01:10:30,120
Speaker 1: So and GLP one like originally was marketed or is

1315
01:10:30,120 --> 01:10:32,080
Speaker 1: that because originally marketed for a bit like a lot

1316
01:10:32,080 --> 01:10:34,240
Speaker 1: of people us lose weight and not originally but like

1317
01:10:34,320 --> 01:10:37,040
Speaker 1: after that, but when it got into the consumer world,

1318
01:10:37,080 --> 01:10:40,880
Speaker 1: the retail world, and how does it stop you from

1319
01:10:41,160 --> 01:10:43,960
Speaker 1: putting weight on? What's it make? I thought it'd stop

1320
01:10:44,000 --> 01:10:44,880
Speaker 1: your appetitis something.

1321
01:10:45,280 --> 01:10:47,720
Speaker 2: It does work on appetite, but it also works on

1322
01:10:48,520 --> 01:10:52,840
Speaker 2: emptying of the of your stomach of food. But the

1323
01:10:52,880 --> 01:10:55,639
Speaker 2: effects through brain health are also linked to the effects

1324
01:10:55,680 --> 01:11:01,640
Speaker 2: on obesity, reducing inflammation, reducing sleep, and when you have

1325
01:11:01,720 --> 01:11:04,439
Speaker 2: less sleep, aap near the glymphatic system is working. It's

1326
01:11:04,479 --> 01:11:07,240
Speaker 2: clearing up the proteins at night time. So it's all

1327
01:11:07,320 --> 01:11:09,440
Speaker 2: We're all a huge ecosystem.

1328
01:11:10,240 --> 01:11:13,840
Speaker 1: And that's my final question or my final sort of

1329
01:11:13,840 --> 01:11:20,960
Speaker 1: subtopic I wanted to talk about. With sleep. Everyone sleeps,

1330
01:11:21,560 --> 01:11:24,040
Speaker 1: we all need different levels of sleep, and of course

1331
01:11:24,040 --> 01:11:26,080
Speaker 1: everyone keeps saying you got to sleep from seven eight hours,

1332
01:11:26,080 --> 01:11:28,920
Speaker 1: but I mean it's rare that I ever ever do that.

1333
01:11:29,840 --> 01:11:31,240
Speaker 1: I might be bed for that long, but I might

1334
01:11:31,280 --> 01:11:35,360
Speaker 1: not sleep that whole period. What is the difference between, Well,

1335
01:11:35,360 --> 01:11:37,519
Speaker 1: why is it important from a brain health point of

1336
01:11:37,560 --> 01:11:43,480
Speaker 1: view to a get overall enough sleep but be consistently

1337
01:11:44,560 --> 01:11:49,559
Speaker 1: to do it and c also to have slow wave

1338
01:11:49,640 --> 01:11:52,400
Speaker 1: sleep or what they call deep sleep or restored sleep

1339
01:11:52,600 --> 01:11:55,160
Speaker 1: not so much round but the other one. What is

1340
01:11:55,160 --> 01:11:56,320
Speaker 1: that doing for our brain?

1341
01:11:58,040 --> 01:12:00,320
Speaker 2: So this is again an evolving era of side. But

1342
01:12:00,439 --> 01:12:03,080
Speaker 2: understanding that there are systems in the brain that switch

1343
01:12:03,120 --> 01:12:06,000
Speaker 2: on when we're in sleep and deep sleep, and we

1344
01:12:06,080 --> 01:12:10,280
Speaker 2: need that every day to clean out the abnormalities, the

1345
01:12:10,360 --> 01:12:13,760
Speaker 2: protein abnormalities. In particular, we've talked about amyloid TAO, but

1346
01:12:13,840 --> 01:12:17,559
Speaker 2: presumably TDP forty three ouphas on newclin they've been pushed

1347
01:12:17,640 --> 01:12:21,599
Speaker 2: through this sort of cleansing process during us sleep. Now,

1348
01:12:21,640 --> 01:12:23,479
Speaker 2: the question I suppose when someone does have a sleep

1349
01:12:23,479 --> 01:12:27,280
Speaker 2: abnormality is is it a sleep abnormatic abnormality that's been

1350
01:12:27,360 --> 01:12:30,519
Speaker 2: driven by brain function or is it just a lifestyle problem.

1351
01:12:30,920 --> 01:12:33,439
Speaker 2: And it's much better to try and address that early on.

1352
01:12:33,880 --> 01:12:36,559
Speaker 2: And we all need proper sleep and whatever that hour

1353
01:12:36,960 --> 01:12:40,120
Speaker 2: those hours are is everyone's different. Like you said, you know,

1354
01:12:40,200 --> 01:12:42,439
Speaker 2: you don't need eight hours, and that's true. Some people

1355
01:12:42,520 --> 01:12:45,959
Speaker 2: need five, six, seven. But we all need a certain quality,

1356
01:12:46,280 --> 01:12:49,160
Speaker 2: a certain amount of sleep, but also than a deep sleep,

1357
01:12:49,560 --> 01:12:52,320
Speaker 2: and this is for preserving brain function.

1358
01:12:52,280 --> 01:12:54,519
Speaker 1: And deep sleep. During that deep sleep period or the

1359
01:12:54,640 --> 01:12:56,320
Speaker 1: slow wage sleep, the deep sleep, when you're sort of

1360
01:12:56,320 --> 01:12:58,920
Speaker 1: basically paralyzed. Yeah, you know, you're not moving, you know

1361
01:12:59,000 --> 01:13:02,360
Speaker 1: nothing's going on. Posted when you have your sleep during

1362
01:13:02,360 --> 01:13:08,400
Speaker 1: that period, something opens up in your brain and sends

1363
01:13:08,439 --> 01:13:10,439
Speaker 1: something out there to flush it. And unless you get

1364
01:13:10,439 --> 01:13:14,640
Speaker 1: into that state you don't flush out your brain. Is

1365
01:13:14,680 --> 01:13:17,679
Speaker 1: there a general rule as to how many hours per

1366
01:13:17,800 --> 01:13:20,120
Speaker 1: night or how much of it as a total percentage

1367
01:13:20,120 --> 01:13:21,639
Speaker 1: of your total sleep you should be getting.

1368
01:13:21,960 --> 01:13:24,599
Speaker 2: So a rough sleep hours is slight cycle is about

1369
01:13:24,640 --> 01:13:27,000
Speaker 2: three hours to two of those, so about six hours

1370
01:13:27,400 --> 01:13:29,960
Speaker 2: and probably maybe some break in between. So in and

1371
01:13:30,000 --> 01:13:34,360
Speaker 2: around six hours is the perfect. But obviously we're talking

1372
01:13:34,360 --> 01:13:36,800
Speaker 2: about adults. The younger you are, the more you need,

1373
01:13:36,880 --> 01:13:39,559
Speaker 2: and you know children need more eight ten, et cetera.

1374
01:13:39,720 --> 01:13:41,960
Speaker 2: So I think part of it is to try and

1375
01:13:42,040 --> 01:13:47,040
Speaker 2: ensure that people are used to looking after themselves, to

1376
01:13:47,080 --> 01:13:49,920
Speaker 2: go to sleep, to sleep hygiene.

1377
01:13:50,040 --> 01:13:52,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's just so easily. Yeah, and whilst you're leaping too.

1378
01:13:53,080 --> 01:13:55,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's why again exercise, making sure you get

1379
01:13:55,720 --> 01:13:58,840
Speaker 2: a bed when you're fatigued. No booze, no booze, don't

1380
01:13:58,880 --> 01:14:02,040
Speaker 2: drink you know, teaen coffe just before beforehand.

1381
01:14:01,680 --> 01:14:03,920
Speaker 1: You know, try to stay on down, keep your excitement

1382
01:14:04,040 --> 01:14:04,519
Speaker 1: levels down.

1383
01:14:04,960 --> 01:14:06,280
Speaker 2: I think you should write a book on all of this,

1384
01:14:06,320 --> 01:14:07,680
Speaker 2: because you've got all of the keys.

1385
01:14:07,600 --> 01:14:09,639
Speaker 1: Can I can I just ask you one more question?

1386
01:14:10,479 --> 01:14:14,040
Speaker 1: Hopefully it's a comment on a lot of people, on

1387
01:14:14,400 --> 01:14:18,559
Speaker 1: a lot of guys I know older more, my age more,

1388
01:14:18,600 --> 01:14:21,559
Speaker 1: my age category. For many many years have been taking

1389
01:14:21,720 --> 01:14:26,280
Speaker 1: enormous and all sorts of those old school of sleeping tablets.

1390
01:14:27,040 --> 01:14:31,200
Speaker 1: And some people I know, and one of them are,

1391
01:14:33,520 --> 01:14:36,920
Speaker 1: are quite aware and alert when they're sleeping, so they

1392
01:14:36,920 --> 01:14:39,240
Speaker 1: don't get into the deep sleep for as long as

1393
01:14:39,240 --> 01:14:42,519
Speaker 1: other people do because maybe because they're listening, or they're

1394
01:14:42,520 --> 01:14:45,559
Speaker 1: not listening, but sort of instinctively they're listening that any

1395
01:14:45,560 --> 01:14:49,040
Speaker 1: little norms wake, come up, any movement, awakem up. They're aware,

1396
01:14:49,360 --> 01:14:51,200
Speaker 1: but they're asleep sort of thing. And I'm one of

1397
01:14:51,200 --> 01:14:57,400
Speaker 1: those people, and recently I come across these sleeping tables.

1398
01:14:57,439 --> 01:15:01,240
Speaker 1: They're not sleeping tablets, the tubblets which actually blocked the

1399
01:15:01,280 --> 01:15:07,920
Speaker 1: receptors for arecsen in your brain. And I just wonder

1400
01:15:07,920 --> 01:15:11,320
Speaker 1: if there's you might wouldn't get to make comment on

1401
01:15:11,360 --> 01:15:14,879
Speaker 1: it enough as area you even looked at. But rection's

1402
01:15:14,920 --> 01:15:17,240
Speaker 1: the mullog and ee brain there sort of just for

1403
01:15:17,320 --> 01:15:19,840
Speaker 1: the audience that keeps us sort of aware and awakes

1404
01:15:20,320 --> 01:15:24,080
Speaker 1: sort of awaking. It's normal. Seemed tables sort of sedate you,

1405
01:15:24,200 --> 01:15:26,840
Speaker 1: they said, your whole brain, and you basically feel like

1406
01:15:26,840 --> 01:15:28,679
Speaker 1: shit when you wake up because you didn't really sleep.

1407
01:15:28,920 --> 01:15:32,599
Speaker 1: They knocked you out. Whereas these things blocked the receptors

1408
01:15:32,600 --> 01:15:36,080
Speaker 1: on you on your brain cells that actually look grab

1409
01:15:36,120 --> 01:15:39,360
Speaker 1: this RECs and stuff that keep that actually trying to

1410
01:15:39,400 --> 01:15:42,120
Speaker 1: keep you awake, So it sort of blocks that that process.

1411
01:15:42,760 --> 01:15:45,200
Speaker 1: What do you think about those sorts of tablets and

1412
01:15:45,600 --> 01:15:47,800
Speaker 1: you have you have you had much experience with it?

1413
01:15:48,000 --> 01:15:50,120
Speaker 2: Well, what I would say is, again we're talking about

1414
01:15:50,200 --> 01:15:52,640
Speaker 2: upstream and downstream and lots of other things that happened. So,

1415
01:15:52,840 --> 01:15:56,639
Speaker 2: like we've been very interested in erecs and producing cells

1416
01:15:56,680 --> 01:16:00,759
Speaker 2: in the hippocampus because they also control our eating behavior

1417
01:16:01,200 --> 01:16:04,120
Speaker 2: and they're affected in front of temporal dementia and modeor

1418
01:16:04,160 --> 01:16:06,719
Speaker 2: neurine disease. The work that's been done here in Sydney,

1419
01:16:06,720 --> 01:16:10,519
Speaker 2: particularly Rebecca are Mad to show on that those cells

1420
01:16:10,640 --> 01:16:13,880
Speaker 2: are affected early in front of temporal dementia and modeor

1421
01:16:13,920 --> 01:16:17,080
Speaker 2: neurine disease. So although you've taken the approach from the

1422
01:16:17,120 --> 01:16:20,479
Speaker 2: erecs and to sleep, it's also important for your eating

1423
01:16:20,560 --> 01:16:21,759
Speaker 2: behavior and.

1424
01:16:21,840 --> 01:16:25,160
Speaker 1: To have to control the amount of recent or yeah, yeah,

1425
01:16:25,200 --> 01:16:25,839
Speaker 1: that's interesting.

1426
01:16:25,960 --> 01:16:29,639
Speaker 2: Yeah, and they can degenerate and when they degenerate, that's

1427
01:16:29,680 --> 01:16:32,800
Speaker 2: why people start having altered eating behavior. So there's a

1428
01:16:32,880 --> 01:16:38,400
Speaker 2: propensity with certain dementias to like sweet foods, and you know,

1429
01:16:38,439 --> 01:16:42,760
Speaker 2: to eat chocolates, and patients typically become put on weight

1430
01:16:43,040 --> 01:16:46,040
Speaker 2: and become a beast, and to exercise, and that's markers

1431
01:16:46,080 --> 01:16:48,320
Speaker 2: that this could be fronto temporal dementias. What I'm saying

1432
01:16:48,360 --> 01:16:51,000
Speaker 2: is you focus on erection for sleep, but those erections

1433
01:16:51,000 --> 01:16:53,400
Speaker 2: and cells also have other functions. So that's why I'd

1434
01:16:53,439 --> 01:16:56,879
Speaker 2: be always careful in doing thing that might alter function

1435
01:16:57,000 --> 01:16:58,200
Speaker 2: of cells in the brain.

1436
01:16:58,400 --> 01:17:01,719
Speaker 1: Because erection is from the gregwood or rexy, which means

1437
01:17:01,960 --> 01:17:07,599
Speaker 1: we say, when we're saying to someone in Greek, it's

1438
01:17:07,640 --> 01:17:11,640
Speaker 1: a calix, which means good appetite. And it's funny. So

1439
01:17:12,320 --> 01:17:14,720
Speaker 1: now I know why it was fascinating. Now I know

1440
01:17:14,760 --> 01:17:17,439
Speaker 1: why they call it a recitent has something to do

1441
01:17:17,439 --> 01:17:21,680
Speaker 1: with your appetite, it does and eating behavior. Oh right, yeah,

1442
01:17:21,720 --> 01:17:25,000
Speaker 1: So would you expect then if you know, let's say

1443
01:17:25,000 --> 01:17:28,439
Speaker 1: the half life of rex and pill was twenty four hours,

1444
01:17:28,479 --> 01:17:32,320
Speaker 1: for I say it's probably not the case, but that

1445
01:17:32,520 --> 01:17:35,400
Speaker 1: you might lose your hunger, I would say, so, yeah.

1446
01:17:35,439 --> 01:17:37,360
Speaker 1: And the other thing is, though I presume that it

1447
01:17:37,400 --> 01:17:40,600
Speaker 1: bounces back, because it does have a bounce. There's a

1448
01:17:40,600 --> 01:17:43,799
Speaker 1: mad bounce because I've measured it. Uh huh, so I measured.

1449
01:17:43,840 --> 01:17:48,240
Speaker 1: I measured a heart rate and HIV. So and I've

1450
01:17:48,280 --> 01:17:50,800
Speaker 1: watched it go through my So I look at my

1451
01:17:51,479 --> 01:17:55,320
Speaker 1: I go through and I look at my my movements

1452
01:17:55,360 --> 01:17:58,120
Speaker 1: of my heart, my art movements. Because it records everything,

1453
01:17:58,560 --> 01:18:01,880
Speaker 1: and you sleep deep in the beginning, but there's a

1454
01:18:01,920 --> 01:18:04,160
Speaker 1: bounce because the half life actually is five hours. So

1455
01:18:04,760 --> 01:18:08,040
Speaker 1: right towards the end of the sleep period, yeah, your

1456
01:18:08,040 --> 01:18:11,000
Speaker 1: heart rate shoots up big time and your HIV drops

1457
01:18:11,040 --> 01:18:12,200
Speaker 1: big time. Yeah.

1458
01:18:12,320 --> 01:18:15,599
Speaker 2: Yeah, well it's right at the core of functions in

1459
01:18:15,640 --> 01:18:17,280
Speaker 2: the hypothalamus and then.

1460
01:18:17,439 --> 01:18:21,559
Speaker 1: You actually wake up really bright. So to some extent,

1461
01:18:21,600 --> 01:18:23,880
Speaker 1: it's a bit of a trap because you think this

1462
01:18:23,920 --> 01:18:26,040
Speaker 1: is a sleeping tablet. And when I take the Sleepma tableau,

1463
01:18:26,080 --> 01:18:28,439
Speaker 1: wake up and feel really good. I feel really awake,

1464
01:18:28,880 --> 01:18:32,160
Speaker 1: Whereas if I take enormous and normal that the usual

1465
01:18:32,200 --> 01:18:34,080
Speaker 1: types of sleeping tablets, I wake up and feel like

1466
01:18:34,120 --> 01:18:38,599
Speaker 1: shit so immediately that my brain says me, well that's better,

1467
01:18:38,680 --> 01:18:41,599
Speaker 1: that's good. But the reason is is because my recxs

1468
01:18:41,600 --> 01:18:43,599
Speaker 1: and bounce is back the other direction, and I'm actually

1469
01:18:43,720 --> 01:18:47,639
Speaker 1: wide awake and I can actually get away less sleep

1470
01:18:47,960 --> 01:18:50,920
Speaker 1: and feel quite away. But it's just a bounce because

1471
01:18:50,920 --> 01:18:54,360
Speaker 1: all of a sudden you the receptors are now released

1472
01:18:54,600 --> 01:18:57,360
Speaker 1: from they're not blocked, and they grab and everything.

1473
01:18:57,800 --> 01:19:00,360
Speaker 2: What's fascinating. So I presume the ancient Greek must have

1474
01:19:00,400 --> 01:19:01,280
Speaker 2: known a bit about this.

1475
01:19:01,800 --> 01:19:07,160
Speaker 1: They probably did this. Ancient Greek does well. I really

1476
01:19:07,240 --> 01:19:09,320
Speaker 1: enjoyed today. I'm got to ask you this one question

1477
01:19:09,360 --> 01:19:09,760
Speaker 1: from my friend.

1478
01:19:09,800 --> 01:19:13,360
Speaker 2: If you don't monoclonal antibodies, that's what this is.

1479
01:19:13,960 --> 01:19:14,160
Speaker 1: Right.

1480
01:19:14,520 --> 01:19:19,320
Speaker 2: So monoclonal antibodies are now approved in Australia l kenomabed

1481
01:19:19,320 --> 01:19:23,800
Speaker 2: and aanamab, and they're very effective at stripping amyloid from

1482
01:19:23,800 --> 01:19:26,479
Speaker 2: the brain. And we know that so when we do

1483
01:19:26,520 --> 01:19:28,599
Speaker 2: a PET scan, if we do an amyloid PET scan

1484
01:19:28,760 --> 01:19:30,920
Speaker 2: before and after, we can see that the amyloid is

1485
01:19:30,960 --> 01:19:35,000
Speaker 2: either cleared or that the volume is right.

1486
01:19:34,880 --> 01:19:38,720
Speaker 1: Down post taking the monoclonal. Yeah, anybody.

1487
01:19:39,080 --> 01:19:41,679
Speaker 2: But then you may say to me, Okay, that's the case,

1488
01:19:42,080 --> 01:19:45,599
Speaker 2: and that protein is the critical driver of Alzheimer's disease.

1489
01:19:46,000 --> 01:19:48,320
Speaker 2: The patient should be completely back to normal, but they're

1490
01:19:48,320 --> 01:19:52,439
Speaker 2: not so, and that's where research is at. So we're

1491
01:19:52,479 --> 01:19:56,760
Speaker 2: clearing amyloid, but the patients aren't necessarily getting better, But

1492
01:19:56,800 --> 01:19:59,439
Speaker 2: what's happening is you're slow in the decline. You're turning

1493
01:19:59,439 --> 01:20:03,559
Speaker 2: the disease process back perps up to three years, right, okay,

1494
01:20:04,080 --> 01:20:06,600
Speaker 2: but cutting edge eries and these are patients who have

1495
01:20:06,680 --> 01:20:11,280
Speaker 2: had already manifestations and memory problems, but they're not too

1496
01:20:11,320 --> 01:20:14,120
Speaker 2: far affected because it's too late, so they have to

1497
01:20:14,200 --> 01:20:18,439
Speaker 2: have a mild effect in their brain function. But the

1498
01:20:18,439 --> 01:20:21,760
Speaker 2: cutting edge then is what if we treated people, you know,

1499
01:20:22,120 --> 01:20:24,840
Speaker 2: before they developed the condition. So we're looking at now,

1500
01:20:24,840 --> 01:20:28,080
Speaker 2: this is research that's being underway at at Neuroscience Research

1501
01:20:28,120 --> 01:20:30,800
Speaker 2: Australia and Emma Devenue I think he spoke to as

1502
01:20:30,840 --> 01:20:33,360
Speaker 2: one of the key drivers of that. So she's she's

1503
01:20:33,400 --> 01:20:38,240
Speaker 2: treating patients who have genetic malformations linked to Alzheimer's disease

1504
01:20:38,360 --> 01:20:41,320
Speaker 2: with these monoclonal antibodies in the hope they'll never develop

1505
01:20:41,360 --> 01:20:44,439
Speaker 2: the condition. And already we're seeing that if the families

1506
01:20:44,439 --> 01:20:47,920
Speaker 2: were developing, say Alzheimer's disease at forty five point fifty,

1507
01:20:48,280 --> 01:20:51,920
Speaker 2: they're passing those ages without developing the condition. Oh wow, yeah,

1508
01:20:51,960 --> 01:20:54,639
Speaker 2: so it's having an effect. But also these are early

1509
01:20:54,760 --> 01:20:58,799
Speaker 2: generation therapies. In other words, that's the first type of approach,

1510
01:20:58,920 --> 01:21:02,320
Speaker 2: there'd be more ederations, and there's so many coming through

1511
01:21:03,080 --> 01:21:04,080
Speaker 2: right now as we speak.

1512
01:21:04,160 --> 01:21:07,880
Speaker 1: So one of those two monoclinal antibodies called it's.

1513
01:21:07,800 --> 01:21:11,480
Speaker 2: A nanomab and look Canama, there may be means monoclonal

1514
01:21:11,520 --> 01:21:13,640
Speaker 2: antibodies and they're two different companies.

1515
01:21:13,280 --> 01:21:16,320
Speaker 1: And they're both are both basically available through neurologies. If

1516
01:21:16,360 --> 01:21:17,599
Speaker 1: you're a person in this category.

1517
01:21:17,640 --> 01:21:20,160
Speaker 2: There are people being treated here in Sydney now, so

1518
01:21:20,200 --> 01:21:23,559
Speaker 2: it's approved by the TGA. It hasn't yet been approved

1519
01:21:23,560 --> 01:21:26,599
Speaker 2: by the Pharmaceutical Benefits Advisory Committee, so you get paid

1520
01:21:26,720 --> 01:21:30,680
Speaker 2: for it. So yeah, so standard and don't quote me

1521
01:21:30,720 --> 01:21:33,439
Speaker 2: on this, but a standard treatment course would be about

1522
01:21:33,439 --> 01:21:36,080
Speaker 2: one hundred thousand dollars. But if you if you want

1523
01:21:36,160 --> 01:21:38,839
Speaker 2: to preserve your brain function, it's worth it. It's absolutely

1524
01:21:38,880 --> 01:21:41,360
Speaker 2: if you afford it, absolutely worth it if you can

1525
01:21:41,439 --> 01:21:43,720
Speaker 2: tap into your super and use it.

1526
01:21:43,840 --> 01:21:46,880
Speaker 1: And I had one final question for you, just in

1527
01:21:46,960 --> 01:21:49,400
Speaker 1: terms of and if I could just go back to

1528
01:21:49,960 --> 01:21:52,600
Speaker 1: cholesterol and to these stads, that that's a problem for

1529
01:21:52,640 --> 01:21:57,479
Speaker 1: your brain too. And let's say you're and I'd like

1530
01:21:57,520 --> 01:22:01,720
Speaker 1: you to comment on this. Let's say yours statin you're

1531
01:22:01,760 --> 01:22:04,200
Speaker 1: not able to take saturns. You know, for some reason

1532
01:22:04,280 --> 01:22:06,360
Speaker 1: the statins affecture sleep, but whatever the case may be,

1533
01:22:08,680 --> 01:22:13,800
Speaker 1: and sleeps critical. So there are now injections you can

1534
01:22:13,840 --> 01:22:19,320
Speaker 1: get which actually don't cross the blood brain barrier and

1535
01:22:19,680 --> 01:22:25,040
Speaker 1: lake statins do, and it will reduce significantly reduce your LDAL.

1536
01:22:27,200 --> 01:22:28,479
Speaker 1: Would you just like to comment on.

1537
01:22:28,439 --> 01:22:32,280
Speaker 2: That, Well, we're just talking about monoclonal antibodies. So monoclinal

1538
01:22:32,320 --> 01:22:36,760
Speaker 2: antibodies actually came from hematology for cancers. They're very effective

1539
01:22:36,800 --> 01:22:39,559
Speaker 2: in melanoma. We're now putting them into the brain for

1540
01:22:39,680 --> 01:22:43,679
Speaker 2: Alzheimer's disease. They're also very very effective for cholesterol control.

1541
01:22:43,880 --> 01:22:49,160
Speaker 2: So monoclonal antibodies are available for lowering cholesterol. But obviously

1542
01:22:49,320 --> 01:22:52,240
Speaker 2: that needs to be under pharmaceutical benefit scheme. There are

1543
01:22:52,240 --> 01:22:54,400
Speaker 2: certain people who are entitled to it, are not, and

1544
01:22:54,520 --> 01:22:58,880
Speaker 2: there are markers. It's not really my area, but there

1545
01:22:58,880 --> 01:23:01,360
Speaker 2: are people who focus on. But if it works, it

1546
01:23:01,400 --> 01:23:02,799
Speaker 2: does work. It's very effective.

1547
01:23:02,840 --> 01:23:05,240
Speaker 1: And if it's effective, if you can get your cholesterol

1548
01:23:05,280 --> 01:23:08,920
Speaker 1: down to the levels where it's like in the right territory, yeah,

1549
01:23:09,280 --> 01:23:10,240
Speaker 1: then it's good for your brain.

1550
01:23:10,320 --> 01:23:13,040
Speaker 2: It's fantastic for the brain. And again that's going to

1551
01:23:13,080 --> 01:23:17,360
Speaker 2: be transformational for our community. That's that's that's an amazing development.

1552
01:23:17,479 --> 01:23:20,080
Speaker 1: You know, I'm about to try it, but I'm not

1553
01:23:20,120 --> 01:23:24,040
Speaker 1: someone to qualifies under the pharmaceutical benefit scheme. I paid

1554
01:23:24,120 --> 01:23:26,880
Speaker 1: for it. Yeah, it's not cheap, but you have to

1555
01:23:26,880 --> 01:23:28,439
Speaker 1: go I think two injections a year, and you do

1556
01:23:28,479 --> 01:23:30,200
Speaker 1: one where you just do it every week or whatever is.

1557
01:23:30,240 --> 01:23:32,280
Speaker 1: But there's another one. We get two injections a year,

1558
01:23:32,840 --> 01:23:36,080
Speaker 1: but allegedly at Regicial audio by fifty percent.

1559
01:23:36,439 --> 01:23:38,080
Speaker 2: Quite quickly, incredibly effective.

1560
01:23:38,160 --> 01:23:40,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, it activates more receptors to grab hold of more

1561
01:23:40,920 --> 01:23:45,360
Speaker 1: older right, because there's something in your that turns out

1562
01:23:45,720 --> 01:23:49,360
Speaker 1: that blocks these receptors. What they do is they stop that.

1563
01:23:49,720 --> 01:23:53,680
Speaker 1: I think it's PCSK or nineteen is the name of

1564
01:23:53,760 --> 01:23:57,160
Speaker 1: the you know, the molecule, and that turns it stops that.

1565
01:23:57,320 --> 01:23:59,840
Speaker 1: It turns that off and then your receptors are grabbing

1566
01:23:59,840 --> 01:24:03,880
Speaker 1: all the elder that can on yourselves and that and

1567
01:24:03,920 --> 01:24:06,280
Speaker 1: that's this ingestion just fixes that part, so it goes

1568
01:24:06,280 --> 01:24:08,080
Speaker 1: nowhere else just go straight there and sorts it out.

1569
01:24:08,240 --> 01:24:12,479
Speaker 1: It's pretty amazing and great science. And again some scientists

1570
01:24:12,520 --> 01:24:14,479
Speaker 1: has worked this stuff out. They probably were doing it

1571
01:24:14,479 --> 01:24:16,840
Speaker 1: with something using it for something else at some stage,

1572
01:24:17,160 --> 01:24:19,519
Speaker 1: and all these things, as you say, you always say,

1573
01:24:20,080 --> 01:24:22,559
Speaker 1: and I want everyone to remember this, that what's good

1574
01:24:22,560 --> 01:24:26,479
Speaker 1: for your heart is good for your brain. Fantastic going

1575
01:24:26,520 --> 01:24:29,000
Speaker 1: to that, Matthew. Thanks very much, Thanks.

1576
01:24:28,720 --> 01:24:31,439
Speaker 2: Mark, and and thanks for your support for brain health,

1577
01:24:31,520 --> 01:24:34,479
Speaker 2: mental health and and also for neuroscience research Australia. We're

1578
01:24:34,520 --> 01:24:36,400
Speaker 2: really grateful, so thank you for most of them.