WEBVTT - The Man Katie Walker Met In A Sydney Pub 0:00:00.160 --> 0:00:03.920 Trigger on ing. Some listeners may find this podcast distressing. 0:00:04.800 --> 0:00:08.000 This is a real story about a real person that 0:00:08.160 --> 0:00:11.879 is still unfolding in real time, and any leads or 0:00:11.920 --> 0:00:15.560 information from anybody out there may help the family either 0:00:15.560 --> 0:00:19.599 find the answers or the closure they're desperately searching for. 0:00:23.840 --> 0:00:27.720 Welcome back to the disappearance of Katie Walker. As I 0:00:27.800 --> 0:00:30.240 say at the start of every episode, this is a 0:00:30.240 --> 0:00:33.760 podcast series I wish I wasn't making, but it is 0:00:33.760 --> 0:00:37.199 already proving vital with leading to new information which I 0:00:37.240 --> 0:00:40.520 will touch upon today. But before that, I just want 0:00:40.560 --> 0:00:42.440 to say thank you to you all who have got 0:00:42.440 --> 0:00:45.080 behind this content and have helped getting it out there. 0:00:45.560 --> 0:00:48.959 Over the weekend, the mainstream media have now started reporting 0:00:48.960 --> 0:00:52.720 on Katie, which her family are so very grateful for, 0:00:52.840 --> 0:00:57.600 So thank you from me and also on behalf of them. Also, 0:00:57.680 --> 0:01:00.360 before I get into today's topic, another know on the 0:01:00.480 --> 0:01:03.960 Dubai incident I discussed in the last episode. At this 0:01:04.040 --> 0:01:06.920 point in time, as far as I'm aware, the police 0:01:06.959 --> 0:01:11.280 are still yet to look into that person, despite Katie's 0:01:11.280 --> 0:01:15.280 family tracking down the exact hotel that incident occurred and 0:01:15.319 --> 0:01:17.559 telling them, and I have since been told that when 0:01:17.720 --> 0:01:21.280 that incident did occur earlier this year, in early February, 0:01:21.560 --> 0:01:24.119 and Katie did wake up to those men entering her 0:01:24.200 --> 0:01:29.000 hotel suite. Katie's friend tells me that she did scream loudly, 0:01:29.240 --> 0:01:31.400 and I'm just showing that because some of you had 0:01:31.480 --> 0:01:35.480 questioned how she reacted and implied there was maybe something 0:01:36.160 --> 0:01:39.280 a bit suspicious about that. But no, like Katie woke up, 0:01:39.840 --> 0:01:43.240 men were in her room and she screamed, that's the 0:01:43.280 --> 0:01:45.760 reality of that situation. And then, as I discussed in 0:01:45.760 --> 0:01:49.400 the last episode, she didn't go to the police. The 0:01:49.440 --> 0:01:53.040 hotel apologized and I believe they gave her a complimentary 0:01:53.080 --> 0:01:56.760 stay in exchange for not making a bigger deal of 0:01:56.800 --> 0:01:59.160 the fact they'd given someone a key card to her 0:01:59.240 --> 0:02:04.160 room for today's episode, though a lot of you I've 0:02:04.160 --> 0:02:08.400 also asked if Katie was seeing anybody in Sydney or dating, 0:02:08.560 --> 0:02:12.639 and this is a topic I was uneasy about sharing 0:02:12.639 --> 0:02:15.920 on here initially, as I know how easy it is 0:02:15.960 --> 0:02:19.640 for people to judge and make assumptions, especially when talking 0:02:19.639 --> 0:02:23.280 about a woman. But for the sake of transparency and 0:02:23.320 --> 0:02:27.400 hopefully this also leading to more information, the answer to 0:02:27.440 --> 0:02:31.960 that question is yes and no. And since returning to 0:02:32.040 --> 0:02:36.120 Sydney in February. Katie had been putting herself out there 0:02:36.280 --> 0:02:40.520 in the local community and making friends and chatting to people. 0:02:40.520 --> 0:02:43.200 And you know, she would wake up and stroll from 0:02:43.240 --> 0:02:46.200 her unit in Darling Point down to the White Rabbit 0:02:46.280 --> 0:02:49.320 Cafe for a coffee in the morning, and she'd stop 0:02:49.360 --> 0:02:53.359 in Bills for lunch on occasion, and sometimes even evening 0:02:53.480 --> 0:02:57.000 she might stop by the Royal Oak Hotel in Double 0:02:57.040 --> 0:03:00.160 Bay for a drink. And during her visits there to 0:03:00.200 --> 0:03:03.160 the Royal Oak, Katie got to know some of the 0:03:03.280 --> 0:03:09.080 other regulars, including two men. Now for background context, before 0:03:09.120 --> 0:03:11.679 I get to those two men and one of those 0:03:11.720 --> 0:03:14.799 men in particular, I just want to recap what I've 0:03:14.840 --> 0:03:18.600 previously said, and that's how since returning to Sydney, Katie 0:03:18.720 --> 0:03:21.440 was in the process of relaunching her jewelry brand and 0:03:21.520 --> 0:03:25.400 figuring out her work situation and income. And yes, she 0:03:25.680 --> 0:03:28.880 was low on money with that running out quite quickly, 0:03:28.960 --> 0:03:31.640 and her father in the UK was helping her in 0:03:31.680 --> 0:03:34.520 the meantime. He paid for the short term lease on 0:03:34.600 --> 0:03:37.800 the unit she was staying in Dialing Point. And remember, 0:03:37.920 --> 0:03:40.720 as I also mentioned in her previous podcast, at this time, 0:03:41.240 --> 0:03:44.200 Katie was arranging the sale of some of her jewelry 0:03:44.280 --> 0:03:47.640 and crystal she'd left behind in America, with the last 0:03:47.640 --> 0:03:50.000 communication she actually had with two of her best friends 0:03:50.040 --> 0:03:53.640 there being you know, confirming which bank account Katie wanted 0:03:53.680 --> 0:03:57.080 them to send, which was around ten thousand Australian dollars, 0:03:57.280 --> 0:04:00.160 which you know, of course, would really help Katie that 0:04:00.240 --> 0:04:03.680 time get back on her feet. And during this time, 0:04:03.800 --> 0:04:06.400 while sharing her story and what was going on to 0:04:06.520 --> 0:04:09.080 some of the people she got chatting to in the 0:04:09.160 --> 0:04:12.800 Royal Oak, one of those men bat the sounds of 0:04:12.840 --> 0:04:16.520 it and what I'm told sensed Katie's I don't want 0:04:16.560 --> 0:04:20.200 to say desperation, because she wasn't desperate for money, because 0:04:20.240 --> 0:04:24.039 money was coming and she was making steps to make 0:04:24.080 --> 0:04:26.839 more money. But perhaps he sends how Katie was currently 0:04:27.800 --> 0:04:30.600 at a crossroads, maybe that's the better way to say it, 0:04:30.640 --> 0:04:34.680 and she was vulnerable and he offered her his nearby 0:04:34.720 --> 0:04:37.359 place to stay for free for a while, you know, 0:04:37.520 --> 0:04:40.599 to take off the pressure of rent at that time, 0:04:40.720 --> 0:04:42.440 and you know where she was staying and having to 0:04:42.480 --> 0:04:45.600 rely on her father. And this man, as far as 0:04:45.640 --> 0:04:48.800 I'm told, he doesn't live in Sydney, but he has 0:04:48.839 --> 0:04:52.479 a place in Sydney for when he's in town on business. 0:04:52.640 --> 0:04:55.159 And when he's in town, apparently he goes to that 0:04:55.200 --> 0:04:58.400 pub often, which is where Casey met him. And you 0:04:58.440 --> 0:05:00.680 know that place he has in Sydney, yarby to the 0:05:00.720 --> 0:05:04.440 problem I met is often empty for weeks on end, 0:05:04.720 --> 0:05:06.440 by the sounds of it on what I'm told, and 0:05:06.920 --> 0:05:10.080 you know, Katie was like, wow, what a great opportunity show. 0:05:10.320 --> 0:05:15.320 And then once Katie moved her stuff in, it wasn't 0:05:15.360 --> 0:05:17.640 the good deed that she thought it was. 0:05:18.320 --> 0:05:25.520 And then the last connection she had she she she 0:05:25.680 --> 0:05:29.320 stayed at some guy's place and she said that, you know, 0:05:29.520 --> 0:05:34.200 he's gentleman. She told me about this this place that 0:05:34.680 --> 0:05:37.159 she said, Oh my god, Elizabeth, you should see this house. 0:05:37.200 --> 0:05:39.480 It's it's freaking amazing. 0:05:39.600 --> 0:05:43.360 You know, it's like a palace, right, And so the guy, 0:05:43.839 --> 0:05:45.960 you know, of course, just wants to get in her pants. 0:05:46.000 --> 0:05:49.000 So he told her that, you know, you can stay 0:05:49.000 --> 0:05:51.440 here for as long as you want, you know, And 0:05:52.000 --> 0:05:54.159 next thing, you know, after like a couple of days, 0:05:54.800 --> 0:05:56.880 he's telling her that she's got to leave because her 0:05:57.000 --> 0:05:58.800 kids are come His kids are coming over. 0:05:59.320 --> 0:06:02.640 According to Katie's friends, Elizabeth there, who I've spoken to 0:06:02.800 --> 0:06:05.880 many times. Katie was then kicked out of that place 0:06:06.000 --> 0:06:09.039 after a few days, and the nice gesture from that 0:06:10.080 --> 0:06:14.200 recent stranger, sadly wasn't all that it seemed. And I 0:06:14.240 --> 0:06:16.760 am told that that man was questioned by the police 0:06:16.839 --> 0:06:19.560 at the start of their short lived investigation when they 0:06:19.600 --> 0:06:22.800 went to the pub, and he denied having any kind 0:06:22.839 --> 0:06:25.960 of relationship with Katie and that was it. And I'm 0:06:25.960 --> 0:06:28.680 also told there was another man who Katie was seen 0:06:28.760 --> 0:06:31.599 chatting too often in the Royal Oak. He was also 0:06:31.720 --> 0:06:35.760 questioned and he also denied having any kind of relationship 0:06:35.800 --> 0:06:38.520 with Katie. So for those who have asked, you know 0:06:38.560 --> 0:06:41.440 what she's seeing someone, was she dating? When I said 0:06:41.480 --> 0:06:45.039 yes and no, it's kind of because, well people maybe 0:06:45.240 --> 0:06:48.840 assumed yes because you know, she's seen chatting with two 0:06:48.839 --> 0:06:51.600 different blokes and she briefly was moving into one of 0:06:51.640 --> 0:06:57.240 their places, but then no, because they've both denied they 0:06:57.279 --> 0:07:02.039 were dating. Again, it's quite confusing, and Katie hadn't told 0:07:02.720 --> 0:07:05.440 her friends or family you know that I I'm seeing 0:07:05.480 --> 0:07:08.400 someone have met someone, So again, I don't believe there 0:07:08.440 --> 0:07:11.920 was a romantic thing, but perhaps that first man, you know, 0:07:11.960 --> 0:07:15.640 by the sounds of it, he wanted you can imagine 0:07:16.000 --> 0:07:17.960 when she moved into his place, and then by the 0:07:17.960 --> 0:07:23.920 sounds of it, if she wasn't willing to give him that, 0:07:23.920 --> 0:07:25.960 that's likely why he was then like, oh see you 0:07:26.040 --> 0:07:28.760 like my kids are coming to town. They need this apartment. 0:07:29.200 --> 0:07:32.280 And since I started this podcast series and there was 0:07:32.320 --> 0:07:36.080 the first mention of Dubai in particular, which is a 0:07:36.120 --> 0:07:38.840 well known place where sex workers do visit, I have 0:07:38.960 --> 0:07:42.320 seen just a couple of comments online from people making 0:07:42.440 --> 0:07:47.320 assumptions on Katie and suggesting, not suggesting, but asking like, hey, 0:07:47.480 --> 0:07:51.760 is she involved in that industry? But I will answer 0:07:51.800 --> 0:07:54.680 that here and I will say no, as far as 0:07:54.760 --> 0:07:58.440 I'm told by everybody who knows Katie, that is not 0:07:58.520 --> 0:08:02.000 true in any way, And even all of my research 0:08:02.040 --> 0:08:04.760 which I've done has also shown me again that that 0:08:05.040 --> 0:08:09.280 is just not true. And I think that assumption maybe 0:08:09.600 --> 0:08:13.280 comes from some of the confusion around like what Katie 0:08:13.280 --> 0:08:15.560 did for work as a jewelry designer, because there is 0:08:16.120 --> 0:08:19.480 a noticeable lack of like an online presence for her brand, 0:08:19.880 --> 0:08:21.040 Dream of Maya. 0:08:21.600 --> 0:08:28.040 She makes these very unique, beautiful gold jewelry and high 0:08:28.160 --> 0:08:28.760 end and. 0:08:30.400 --> 0:08:32.480 As far as I can tell, again by speaking to 0:08:32.520 --> 0:08:36.920 those who know Katie, it isn't big online because her brand, 0:08:37.080 --> 0:08:40.160 you know, which she spent years working on in America 0:08:40.400 --> 0:08:42.600 while married over there to her second husband, it was 0:08:42.640 --> 0:08:47.680 a small thing. It was handmade, luxury, one off custom 0:08:47.760 --> 0:08:51.840 pieces that she sewed directly to like local stores or 0:08:51.920 --> 0:08:55.440 jewelry boutiques. And it's not something that was like mass 0:08:55.480 --> 0:08:58.040 made or mass marketed, you know, whilet spamming it all 0:08:58.080 --> 0:09:01.199 over social media like we may do if we start 0:09:01.240 --> 0:09:03.439 any new small business, we want as many eyes on 0:09:03.480 --> 0:09:06.640 it as possible. But by the sounds of it, Katie's 0:09:07.440 --> 0:09:10.240 business that she was doing was the opposite of that. 0:09:10.320 --> 0:09:13.320 It was more through the people in the community. She 0:09:13.400 --> 0:09:16.640 was living in local shops, as I said, she was 0:09:16.720 --> 0:09:19.720 making and supplying to them. And it is also worth 0:09:19.760 --> 0:09:22.920 pointing out here that Katie's second husband, who she married 0:09:22.960 --> 0:09:25.560 in America and then was living with for several years, 0:09:26.000 --> 0:09:28.520 he is a wealthy man and he owns like a 0:09:28.640 --> 0:09:33.120 large healing retreat, which Katie, who is very spiritual and 0:09:33.200 --> 0:09:35.559 into all of the wellness thing, was kind of part 0:09:35.600 --> 0:09:38.000 of and living out with him while you know, doing 0:09:38.040 --> 0:09:41.600 her jewelry on the side. And then when that marriage 0:09:41.720 --> 0:09:46.200 ended in mid twenty twenty five, I believe Katie was 0:09:46.200 --> 0:09:48.960 then left with a bit of a settlement from the divorce, 0:09:49.080 --> 0:09:52.680 but that money unfortunately didn't last long. 0:09:53.280 --> 0:09:57.040 She made some bad choices, you know, after her divorce. 0:09:57.800 --> 0:09:59.720 But like, in what sense is that? 0:09:59.840 --> 0:10:02.520 Like men, you. 0:10:02.440 --> 0:10:06.800 Know, guys borrowing money to large sums of money to 0:10:07.200 --> 0:10:10.160 people that you hardly know and you have a relationship 0:10:10.160 --> 0:10:16.000 with them. This this dude in Texas who she lent 0:10:16.760 --> 0:10:19.920 one hundred thousand dollars that she really needed money, and 0:10:19.960 --> 0:10:23.120 she'd been bugging this guy and you know, but he 0:10:23.200 --> 0:10:25.600 she was just like, I know, he's got to give 0:10:25.640 --> 0:10:27.839 me my money back, or at least some of my money. 0:10:28.120 --> 0:10:29.240 I need my money. 0:10:29.280 --> 0:10:33.280 And he was just you know, put passing her off 0:10:33.360 --> 0:10:35.520 and like I, you know, I'm waiting until I get 0:10:35.520 --> 0:10:38.360 this you know whatever investments and blah blah blah. So 0:10:38.400 --> 0:10:41.840 he was just traveling all over the world, you know, 0:10:42.000 --> 0:10:44.760 jet setting basically on her money. 0:10:45.040 --> 0:10:46.480 Did show me a picture of him. 0:10:46.520 --> 0:10:49.400 I don't have a picture of him, but of course, 0:10:49.840 --> 0:10:51.200 you know I looked at him and I was like, 0:10:51.960 --> 0:10:52.360 not that. 0:10:53.640 --> 0:10:56.520 So when we talk about the last few months, then 0:10:56.640 --> 0:11:01.600 she's divorced, they've broken up. Yeah, she's owed one hundred 0:11:01.600 --> 0:11:04.960 thousand dollars from this man in Texas. Yeah, there's this 0:11:05.040 --> 0:11:07.640 issue with the guy in Dubai, which is a bit questionable. 0:11:08.120 --> 0:11:10.040 She's come to see her children in it sounds like 0:11:10.120 --> 0:11:12.000 she's running out of money quite quickly. 0:11:13.080 --> 0:11:17.480 She had already Dad was, you know, helping her out, 0:11:17.559 --> 0:11:20.160 you know, the apartment and whatnot. 0:11:20.640 --> 0:11:23.760 I'm not suggesting that that man there who she kind 0:11:23.760 --> 0:11:27.760 of loan money to or invested in whatever his business was, 0:11:27.920 --> 0:11:31.440 is any kind of suspect here. And I again feel 0:11:31.440 --> 0:11:35.000 a little uneasy sharing this stuff, but I do think 0:11:35.760 --> 0:11:38.560 it's important, and that's mostly because it really paints this 0:11:38.640 --> 0:11:42.160 picture of Katie who buy the sounds of it, and like, 0:11:42.200 --> 0:11:44.480 from what I'm understanding of her the more people I 0:11:44.559 --> 0:11:48.360 talked to, she is a woman who just seems far 0:11:48.400 --> 0:11:52.440 too trusting in people and seem to be just perhaps 0:11:52.520 --> 0:11:56.760 seeking solace and connection following her divorce in America and 0:11:56.800 --> 0:12:00.240 maybe seeking someone to help her feel grounded, you know, 0:12:00.240 --> 0:12:03.760 when there was that uncertainty. And yeah, she's then investing 0:12:03.800 --> 0:12:06.920 her time and money, you know in what her friends 0:12:06.960 --> 0:12:10.200 tell me were potentially the wrong people without the best 0:12:10.200 --> 0:12:13.480 intentions for her. And even now, like once she made 0:12:13.520 --> 0:12:15.520 it to Sydney, in February, and you know, Sydney is 0:12:15.520 --> 0:12:18.400 where she wanted to stay, to be around for her children, 0:12:18.400 --> 0:12:21.280 and she again just from hearing that story of the 0:12:21.360 --> 0:12:24.680 man in the pub, was again far too trusting in 0:12:24.760 --> 0:12:29.040 others while at this vulnerable point of her life. This 0:12:29.320 --> 0:12:31.640 is again why I think it's also so important that 0:12:31.679 --> 0:12:35.560 the police really do take their investigations seriously and like 0:12:35.720 --> 0:12:38.000 reopen it or put more effort in, or give it 0:12:38.040 --> 0:12:41.800 more resources, because because at the start, when Katie was 0:12:41.800 --> 0:12:43.960 first reported missing, and you know, they did find those 0:12:43.960 --> 0:12:45.920 men in the pub. But it feels like, again this 0:12:46.080 --> 0:12:48.760 is just what I'm being told from the various people 0:12:48.760 --> 0:12:50.960 I'm speaking to. It feels like the people the police 0:12:51.000 --> 0:12:54.720 spoke to were more questioned about Katie's state of mind 0:12:54.840 --> 0:12:58.440 and mental health as they tried to you know, almost 0:12:58.800 --> 0:13:02.160 back up this working they had of suicide. But now 0:13:02.880 --> 0:13:07.000 just given all the things I've learned, like while speaking 0:13:07.000 --> 0:13:09.640 to the people who knew Katie most, you know, and 0:13:09.880 --> 0:13:13.160 speaking to somebody knew which I'll get to next, I 0:13:13.200 --> 0:13:16.960 and Katie's family were like, we feel the police really 0:13:17.000 --> 0:13:20.800 do need to requestion every single person who Katie knows 0:13:20.880 --> 0:13:24.200 in Sydney and has had any single interaction within Sydney 0:13:24.200 --> 0:13:27.040 since coming back and even before when she previously lived 0:13:27.040 --> 0:13:29.880 in Sydney, and they even need to look beyond Sidney 0:13:29.880 --> 0:13:32.280 to be honest, like who was she talking to and 0:13:32.320 --> 0:13:36.120 interacting with in the last even year of her life, 0:13:36.200 --> 0:13:40.760 because somebody must know something, because as I've said many times, 0:13:40.800 --> 0:13:45.360 everything it just doesn't add up. And yes, someone just 0:13:45.480 --> 0:13:49.440 must know something, as discussed on this podcast series already, 0:13:49.480 --> 0:13:52.640 like the theory that Katie walked into the water unnoticed 0:13:53.160 --> 0:13:57.080 on a Saturday afternoon, it's just virtually impossible, and every 0:13:57.120 --> 0:14:00.000 single person I speak to agrees with that, and you know, 0:14:00.320 --> 0:14:03.480 to me and most people, the reality is Katie ever 0:14:03.480 --> 0:14:07.319 got into a vehicle when she stepped into that CCTV 0:14:07.600 --> 0:14:10.679 dead zone, or she went into one of the handful 0:14:10.760 --> 0:14:14.480 of apartments and houses in that little stretch of street 0:14:14.480 --> 0:14:17.120 where there was no cameras, And to me, it just 0:14:17.160 --> 0:14:20.120 feels unlikely, given the time of day and randomness of 0:14:20.160 --> 0:14:23.160 the street, that she was dragged into a car or 0:14:23.200 --> 0:14:26.520 property against her will, because just statistically, the likelihood of 0:14:26.560 --> 0:14:30.120 someone planning to do that in that location and just 0:14:30.200 --> 0:14:33.880 waiting in broad daylight hoping for what a woman to 0:14:33.920 --> 0:14:37.080 walk past they could grab like and then what you know, 0:14:37.480 --> 0:14:40.160 if that happened and then the woman's screams just didn't 0:14:40.200 --> 0:14:43.360 attract any attention. It just feels just as virtually impossible 0:14:43.400 --> 0:14:46.520 as Katie walking into the water, so so to me, 0:14:46.680 --> 0:14:48.760 and I think most people who are following this, like, 0:14:48.840 --> 0:14:53.040 the most plausible theory seems to be Katie was meeting 0:14:53.120 --> 0:14:56.040 up with somebody that she knew, and that's either she 0:14:56.080 --> 0:14:58.080 met them and got into their car, or she went 0:14:58.200 --> 0:15:01.600 into their home and they live on that street. Since 0:15:01.640 --> 0:15:04.840 my content about Katie has started rolling out, not only 0:15:04.960 --> 0:15:07.480 has it reached like hundreds of thousands of Australians who 0:15:07.480 --> 0:15:10.480 are kind of horrified by this story and also one 0:15:10.560 --> 0:15:12.880 answers and want to help, but it has also reached 0:15:13.360 --> 0:15:17.280 one lovely woman who could not believe what she was 0:15:17.320 --> 0:15:20.200 seeing because at the start of May she happened to 0:15:20.240 --> 0:15:24.400 meet Katie by chance, just while walking in the area 0:15:24.520 --> 0:15:27.440 they both lived. And this woman, you know, she spotted 0:15:27.480 --> 0:15:30.400 Katie walking alone and she said Katie perhaps looked a 0:15:30.400 --> 0:15:33.960 little stressed or like she was going through something, and 0:15:34.040 --> 0:15:36.880 instead of just walking past with her head down, like 0:15:36.920 --> 0:15:39.080 you know, let's be honest, most of us would this 0:15:39.120 --> 0:15:41.800 woman stopped and she approached Katie and she said, hey, 0:15:42.040 --> 0:15:45.240 I'm sorry to interrupt, but are you okay? And this 0:15:45.320 --> 0:15:47.880 woman and Katie then went for a little stroll together 0:15:48.120 --> 0:15:50.320 and they had a coffee, and over the weeks that 0:15:50.400 --> 0:15:53.680 followed they caught up for a coffee and a chat 0:15:53.720 --> 0:15:56.440 many times. And when I spoke to this woman, this 0:15:56.920 --> 0:16:00.760 I must say, absolutely lovely woman who got so upset 0:16:00.800 --> 0:16:03.360 when we were talking about Katie because even though she 0:16:03.400 --> 0:16:06.720 only knew her for what three four weeks, she met 0:16:06.760 --> 0:16:08.600 her at the start of May, and remember Katie went 0:16:08.640 --> 0:16:11.920 missing May twenty third. This woman just felt so strongly 0:16:12.720 --> 0:16:15.360 for Katie. And she told me how Katie had shared 0:16:15.360 --> 0:16:17.680 with her what was troubling her at that time when 0:16:17.720 --> 0:16:20.080 they first met at the start of May, and then 0:16:20.120 --> 0:16:23.160 for the weeks of their friendship, and she said that 0:16:23.320 --> 0:16:26.760 Katie had explained that now she was back here in Australia, 0:16:26.840 --> 0:16:29.640 she never wanted to leave again and she just wanted 0:16:29.680 --> 0:16:32.960 to be around for her two children, who are seventeen 0:16:33.080 --> 0:16:36.840 and nineteen. And Katie told her, you know, while reflecting 0:16:37.400 --> 0:16:39.800 over the last few years, as we all often do 0:16:39.840 --> 0:16:43.280 when we've reached like big crossroads in our lives, Katie 0:16:43.400 --> 0:16:45.800 was saying how she wishes she could go back in 0:16:45.840 --> 0:16:48.640 time and be around more and be, you know, a 0:16:48.720 --> 0:16:51.160 mom at home cooking than there is her kids came 0:16:51.160 --> 0:16:54.080 home from school. And I won't go into the specifics 0:16:54.080 --> 0:16:56.960 of why Katie didn't have custody of her children and 0:16:57.040 --> 0:17:01.320 she lived overseas, because I think that's a little too personally. 0:17:01.360 --> 0:17:04.480 You know, these things are sensitive. But over the last 0:17:04.480 --> 0:17:08.080 few years, everyone I'm speaking to us told me how 0:17:08.119 --> 0:17:11.240 Katie visited Australia often to see her children, and she 0:17:11.880 --> 0:17:14.640 on occasion would fly them to America, or she met 0:17:14.680 --> 0:17:18.080 her daughter in Dubai for like holidays, and she would 0:17:18.119 --> 0:17:22.159 send them money. And then you know, since returning to Sydney, 0:17:22.200 --> 0:17:25.159 according to this lovely woman, Katie realized that, you know, 0:17:25.240 --> 0:17:28.600 despite all of those things, the one thing she wished 0:17:28.640 --> 0:17:32.520 she gave her children more of was time. And again, 0:17:32.680 --> 0:17:36.399 I please, that's that you don't make judgments here on Katie, 0:17:36.440 --> 0:17:40.480 because these things are complex and layered, and life is 0:17:40.560 --> 0:17:43.880 complex and layered. But one thing to know that I've 0:17:43.960 --> 0:17:46.199 learned again through everyone I've spoken to, is just that 0:17:46.280 --> 0:17:50.399 Katie loved her children more than anything in the world. 0:17:50.560 --> 0:17:53.679 And as I was saying now she was back, she 0:17:53.840 --> 0:17:57.760 was adamant she wasn't ever leaving again. But away from that, 0:17:57.840 --> 0:17:59.960 and the thing Katie was stressing about when she met 0:18:00.040 --> 0:18:02.480 this lovely woman was it wasn't the money thing, because 0:18:02.480 --> 0:18:04.560 that was kind of being resolved and there was solutions 0:18:04.600 --> 0:18:07.000 there and money was coming. But it was the fact 0:18:07.080 --> 0:18:11.119 that her visa for Australia was about to expire, I 0:18:11.200 --> 0:18:14.520 believe towards the end of May. And Katie told this 0:18:14.600 --> 0:18:16.800 woman at the start of May when they first met, 0:18:16.800 --> 0:18:20.080 that she didn't have long left until it did expire, 0:18:20.119 --> 0:18:22.879 and she must leave Australia before that happened, so she 0:18:22.960 --> 0:18:26.840 can then apply for another visa while out of the country, 0:18:26.880 --> 0:18:29.840 so she can return through the proper channels and do 0:18:29.920 --> 0:18:33.439 it all like officially, because Katie said, if she didn't 0:18:33.440 --> 0:18:36.239 do that, which this is true, if she overstayed in 0:18:36.280 --> 0:18:40.479 Australia by even one day like that would impact her 0:18:40.520 --> 0:18:43.879 ability to then get a new visa and renew a visa, 0:18:43.920 --> 0:18:46.520 and it could essentially lead to her not being able 0:18:46.560 --> 0:18:48.880 to return to Australia for years. Like that's the reality 0:18:48.960 --> 0:18:52.720 of these visa situations. And you know, this woman, this 0:18:53.080 --> 0:18:56.880 lovely woman tells me. How then on May nineteen, after 0:18:57.080 --> 0:19:00.199 Katie's father in the UK had transferred Katie a bit 0:19:00.200 --> 0:19:03.440 of money into one of her friend's Australian bank accounts, 0:19:04.320 --> 0:19:07.280 they then withdrew that cash and give it to Katie. 0:19:07.320 --> 0:19:10.160 And then Katie and this woman, while you know, speaking 0:19:10.440 --> 0:19:14.120 while having their regular coffee and planning how she can 0:19:14.200 --> 0:19:17.359 fix the visa thing, they together they phoned up the 0:19:17.400 --> 0:19:20.480 flight center and they asked, is it possible for Katie 0:19:20.480 --> 0:19:23.560 to go in store and book a flight to the 0:19:23.680 --> 0:19:26.239 UK in cash? Because you know, at that point, as 0:19:26.280 --> 0:19:28.840 I just said, cash was all Katie had. And the 0:19:28.880 --> 0:19:31.479 flight center said over the phone to Katie and this 0:19:31.520 --> 0:19:34.280 woman that yes, you know, that's fine, you can book 0:19:34.320 --> 0:19:36.679 a flight in cash, paying cash. And then as that 0:19:36.760 --> 0:19:39.200 phone call ended, Katie told her friend like, great, I'm 0:19:39.200 --> 0:19:42.200 gonna go do that probably tomorrow and I will book 0:19:42.320 --> 0:19:45.879 that flight. And this was May nineteenth when she said that. 0:19:46.000 --> 0:19:48.399 This was May nineteenth when they phoned the flight center. 0:19:48.800 --> 0:19:52.520 This was May nineteenth when Katie said tomorrow or you know, 0:19:52.560 --> 0:19:54.840 the day after, she will go and pay for that flight. 0:19:55.080 --> 0:19:58.359 And you know, May nineteenth, that's four days before Katie 0:19:58.400 --> 0:20:01.600 was then last scene and Katie's plan, which she told 0:20:01.640 --> 0:20:04.640 her friend when she realized yes she could book that 0:20:04.680 --> 0:20:07.920 flight in cash, was to fly back to the UK asap, 0:20:08.400 --> 0:20:11.560 essentially on the next fly over the next few days, 0:20:11.560 --> 0:20:15.439 and stay with her father while reapplying for her Australian visa, 0:20:15.520 --> 0:20:18.439 and then the day that visa comes through, like they 0:20:18.440 --> 0:20:21.760 don't take long for British citizens overseas, she would then 0:20:21.800 --> 0:20:24.159 return to Australia to be back here for her kids 0:20:24.320 --> 0:20:28.760 on a more permanent basis, and like continue building the 0:20:28.880 --> 0:20:31.320 life she'd kind of slowly started to do of those 0:20:31.359 --> 0:20:34.960 last couple of months. And that friend of Katie's, after 0:20:35.359 --> 0:20:37.880 that day where they made that phone call and Katie said, hey, 0:20:37.920 --> 0:20:39.720 tomorrow or the day after, I'm going to go book 0:20:39.800 --> 0:20:44.439 that flight, that friend never saw Katie again. And then 0:20:44.520 --> 0:20:48.240 when that friends calls our messages didn't go through to Katie, 0:20:48.720 --> 0:20:52.119 that friend assumed that Katie had just jumped on the 0:20:52.160 --> 0:20:54.479 next available flight back to the UK, you know, so 0:20:54.520 --> 0:20:56.920 she could sort her visa issues, because the last time 0:20:56.960 --> 0:20:59.600 they spoke, that was Katie's plan, and that's what she 0:20:59.640 --> 0:21:01.560 was ect I did to do because it felt like 0:21:02.359 --> 0:21:05.240 she finally had a solution which would help you know, 0:21:05.280 --> 0:21:07.159 the thing that was stressing her out, the visa thing. 0:21:07.200 --> 0:21:09.520 There was a plan there, you know, there was money 0:21:09.720 --> 0:21:12.960 coming in and then much of this friend's horror when 0:21:13.000 --> 0:21:15.920 she saw my content she realized that, you know, sadly 0:21:16.640 --> 0:21:20.560 Katie didn't get on any flight. This new information from 0:21:20.600 --> 0:21:22.880 that lovely lady who I spoke to, that I then 0:21:22.920 --> 0:21:26.200 shared with Katie's family hasn't just brought them like comfort 0:21:26.440 --> 0:21:29.359 knowing that she made such a good friend, such a 0:21:29.440 --> 0:21:33.040 kind friend during those final weeks. But to Katie's family 0:21:33.200 --> 0:21:35.480 and her friends in America, who I've also shared that 0:21:35.520 --> 0:21:39.160 information with like it's also made them even more certain 0:21:39.840 --> 0:21:42.720 that Katie just did not take her own life. Because again, 0:21:43.480 --> 0:21:45.800 on the day she went missing, not only did Katie 0:21:46.119 --> 0:21:48.880 have money finally coming in from America, as I keep saying, 0:21:48.920 --> 0:21:52.000 money that she needed and that she was using to 0:21:52.800 --> 0:21:55.320 build the new life she wanted and was going to 0:21:55.359 --> 0:21:57.840 be such a relief, but she also then had the 0:21:57.880 --> 0:22:00.800 plan how to overcome the visa issues to come back 0:22:00.840 --> 0:22:03.159 to Sydney, which she was desperate to do so she 0:22:03.200 --> 0:22:05.919 could be around for her children more than ever, the 0:22:06.000 --> 0:22:09.440