WEBVTT - The ‘messy couple’ that was the Coalition

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<v Speaker 1>So does anyone have like that messy couple in their

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<v Speaker 1>lives who are constantly breaking up and then getting back

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<v Speaker 1>together again. And every time they get back together, you

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<v Speaker 1>have to pretend like it's going to last.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, they do.

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<v Speaker 3>So that's the coalition right now.

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<v Speaker 2>It's the on again, off again political drama that has

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<v Speaker 2>turned Australian politics into something resembling a soap opera. For

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<v Speaker 2>the second time in a year, the Liberal and National

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<v Speaker 2>parties have split, rendering the coalition dead again. The breakups

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<v Speaker 2>once again thrown Susan Lee's leadership under a bus, shattered

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<v Speaker 2>the opposition's ability to challenge the government, and underscore deeper

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<v Speaker 2>pressures from an ascendant One Nation. I'm Daniel James and

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<v Speaker 2>you're listening to seven AM today contributing editor of the

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<v Speaker 2>New Daily Amy Remikus on the breakup, the fallout and

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<v Speaker 2>the ex sitting on the sidelines. You can't get enough

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<v Speaker 2>for the spectacle. It's Saturday, January twenty four. I am.

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<v Speaker 2>At the start of this week the PM was on

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<v Speaker 2>the ropes over these bills. Now not only has he

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<v Speaker 2>got them both passed through Parliament, but the heat is

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<v Speaker 2>off him. So my question to you is is Albo

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<v Speaker 2>a political genius or the luckiest man in politics?

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, it's actually a bit of both.

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<v Speaker 1>And I mean before we talk about the political tactics here,

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<v Speaker 1>it does need to be remembered that civil liberties have

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<v Speaker 1>taken a pretty big hit in Australia this week with

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<v Speaker 1>the passage of the Hate Bill in particular, and constitutional

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<v Speaker 1>experts like Ann Toomey have raised concerns.

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<v Speaker 3>Over the broadness of the bill.

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<v Speaker 1>Lawyers, civil rights groups, even the IPA have raised a

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<v Speaker 1>quite valid concerns about this bill.

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<v Speaker 3>But when we talk about the politics of.

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<v Speaker 1>This, if there's one thing that Anthony Albanizi is good at,

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<v Speaker 1>it is thinking through how to screw someone over.

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<v Speaker 3>That's what he's good at.

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<v Speaker 1>He is not a fantastic communicator, but he is very

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<v Speaker 1>good when activated on the politics. And I think this

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<v Speaker 1>all started quite early on when Susan Lee and members

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<v Speaker 1>of the Liberal Party were demanding that the government come

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<v Speaker 1>back a recall Parliament and put through hate speech legislation,

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<v Speaker 1>and fractures started very early on over who actually deserves

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<v Speaker 1>protections on this. So Susan Lee was like, we need

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<v Speaker 1>to look at vilification, we need to look at hate speech,

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<v Speaker 1>and then members of her own party weeks ago started going, oh,

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<v Speaker 1>but let's not go too far here. We don't necessarily

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<v Speaker 1>think we need to extend this to the LGBTQ community.

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<v Speaker 1>But it did set off a chain of events in

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<v Speaker 1>the Liberal Party where they started talking about do we

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<v Speaker 1>actually want.

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<v Speaker 3>To do this.

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<v Speaker 1>I think Anthony Albanizi spotted that fracture. He saw that

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<v Speaker 1>the unity was not going to hold, and then he

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<v Speaker 1>set about laying out some political land minds that he

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<v Speaker 1>figured that Susan Lee would absolutely set off. And set

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<v Speaker 1>them off she did.

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<v Speaker 2>And so it all led to Thursday, a day that

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<v Speaker 2>was supposed to be a day of mourning for the

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<v Speaker 2>victims of the Bondai terror attacks. Susan Lee at least

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<v Speaker 2>stayed silent in respect for the victims, but the Nationals

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<v Speaker 2>were out pretty much everywhere talking about themselves, and the

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<v Speaker 2>coalition split all day.

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<v Speaker 4>Our party room has made it very clear we cannot

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<v Speaker 4>be part of a shadow ministry under Susan Lee.

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<v Speaker 1>Is the National Party made a principal decision on the

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<v Speaker 1>hate laws.

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<v Speaker 3>We're very glad to vote and lead on voting against.

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<v Speaker 2>It's just about fixing people's problems. I feel like we

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<v Speaker 2>fought and stood up for people.

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<v Speaker 3>This week, I've received enormously positive fak So.

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<v Speaker 1>Did the split surprise you, Aby, No, the split did

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<v Speaker 1>not surprise me, and I don't think it should surprise

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<v Speaker 1>anyone who has been watching this. The Coalition have not

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<v Speaker 1>been united for a very long time, and when they

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<v Speaker 1>split for that brief period back in May, they did

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<v Speaker 1>not actually resolve any of the issues which led to

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<v Speaker 1>the split.

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<v Speaker 3>It's always been simmering under the surface.

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<v Speaker 1>I was writing not so long ago that it wasn't

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<v Speaker 1>going to last much more than after parliament started.

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<v Speaker 3>That proved to be true.

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<v Speaker 1>The Nationals have always wanted to lead the Liberal Party

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<v Speaker 1>around and have when it comes to policy for the

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<v Speaker 1>last thirty years or so. When we see the Liberal

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<v Speaker 1>Party being pulled to the right, when we talk about,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, the lack of moderates in the Liberal Party,

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<v Speaker 1>that is a direct result of the Nationals dominating the

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<v Speaker 1>Coalition policies in their fight against one Nation in their electorates.

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<v Speaker 1>So it wasn't a surprise that this happened. I think

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<v Speaker 1>the only surprise is that the Liberals didn't see it coming,

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<v Speaker 1>that Susan Lee did not see these things coming, and

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<v Speaker 1>also not a lot is being said. I think about

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<v Speaker 1>how political David Little Proud was in all of this,

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<v Speaker 1>in that he chose potentially the worst day he possibly

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<v Speaker 1>could to do it.

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<v Speaker 3>He did it on purpose. He could have done it

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<v Speaker 3>the night before.

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<v Speaker 1>There were several entreaties from Susan Lee's office and allies,

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<v Speaker 1>and Susan Lee herself asking David Little Proud not to

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<v Speaker 1>do it on the National Day of Mourning, to speak

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<v Speaker 1>with her, to delay it, to see if they could

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<v Speaker 1>work it out, and he didn't.

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<v Speaker 3>He didn't entertain any of that.

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<v Speaker 4>And if these three senators could not be accepted, then

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<v Speaker 4>our coalition has become untenable. This process was it.

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<v Speaker 1>He just got up in Queensland at eight thirty of

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<v Speaker 1>non the National Day of Mourning, and decided to announce

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<v Speaker 1>that the coalition was done.

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<v Speaker 4>And this is the most disappointing moment that we had

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<v Speaker 4>to get to, but unfortunately we find ourselves in it.

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<v Speaker 3>Thanks Kevin, and he's done it to extend his own leadership.

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<v Speaker 1>But even that in these circumstances is probably going to

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<v Speaker 1>be brief.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, this is their second split up and just

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<v Speaker 2>day over a year. Is it a sign that the

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<v Speaker 2>Liberal Party and the National Party actually don't belong together.

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<v Speaker 1>So I mean to understand how the Liberal Party got here,

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<v Speaker 1>we do have to go back to nineteen ninety six

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<v Speaker 1>when Pauline Hanson came on the scene. So Pauline Hansen

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<v Speaker 1>was kicked out of the Liberal Party for her horrendous

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<v Speaker 1>comments about Indigenous Australians. John Howard though, was leader of

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<v Speaker 1>the Liberal Party then and he was open to hearing

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<v Speaker 1>those views, and that basically gave permission for Pauline Hansen

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<v Speaker 1>to trample around Australia and Queensland first and suck up

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of the Liberal Party base. That has had

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<v Speaker 1>massive ramifications, in particular for the National Party, who have

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<v Speaker 1>now had to come out and try to out one Nation,

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<v Speaker 1>one Nation, and in doing so it's dominated coalition policy

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<v Speaker 1>because to beat one Nation, the Nationals have to be

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<v Speaker 1>quite nationalists, quite out on the far right, very very conservative,

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<v Speaker 1>bring in all the culture wars, and doing that has

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<v Speaker 1>meant that the Liberals in the Inner City have been

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<v Speaker 1>unable to defend their seats and we see the Liberal

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<v Speaker 1>boat continuing to tank because in order for the Nationals

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<v Speaker 1>to fight one Nation, you cannot have the Liberals fighting

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<v Speaker 1>off Greens and independence in the inner city. It just

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<v Speaker 1>does not work. So the Nationals are fighting one nation

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<v Speaker 1>and they've looked at the polls, They've looked at Barnaby's defection.

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<v Speaker 1>They know what that's going to mean, and they have

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<v Speaker 1>panicked by saying we can do it too. We're not

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<v Speaker 1>going to be led around by anyone in the Liberals

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<v Speaker 1>who wants to try and tell us what to do,

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<v Speaker 1>and we will blow up the show if we have to,

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<v Speaker 1>if it means that we might have a chance at

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<v Speaker 1>holding our own seats.

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<v Speaker 2>It's clear that the Nets wants Susan Lee gone. Why

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<v Speaker 2>do they want to gone? And how long do you

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<v Speaker 2>think she can survive?

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<v Speaker 1>They want to go on half of the Liberal party

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<v Speaker 1>room wanna gone, probably more than half.

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<v Speaker 3>It's really hard.

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<v Speaker 1>For anyone to come in and lead an opposition after

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<v Speaker 1>such a comprehensive loss. Susan Lee was the person who

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<v Speaker 1>was handed the hospital pass to work out the mess.

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<v Speaker 1>They still haven't done that. They haven't got their election review.

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<v Speaker 1>They are still fighting. She hasn't been able to pull

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<v Speaker 1>them into any particular position. They don't have any strong contenders,

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<v Speaker 1>which may extend her leadership for a little bit longer,

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<v Speaker 1>but you know, it's essentially on life support in political terms,

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<v Speaker 1>and the people who are fighting it out Andrew Hasty

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<v Speaker 1>and Angus Taylor. Angus Taylor is a Conservative who wants

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<v Speaker 1>to try to take it back to being John Howard's

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<v Speaker 1>Liberal Party. He's untouched by everything that has happened in

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<v Speaker 1>Parliament because he was overseas when this vote happened, so

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<v Speaker 1>he doesn't have any ownership of it. Andrew Hasty, who

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<v Speaker 1>wants to go more down the one nation nationalist route

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<v Speaker 1>for the Liberal Party. He's been burned by this vote

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<v Speaker 1>because he told his supporters he was not going to

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<v Speaker 1>vote for it, then after they removed Philification, he did.

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<v Speaker 1>He's being absolutely torn apart by soft one nation voters

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<v Speaker 1>and people who thought that he was going to make

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<v Speaker 1>the Liberal Party more like one Nation. And there's no

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<v Speaker 1>one really else that they can choose from in there.

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<v Speaker 1>So it's going to be about does Angus Taylor want

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<v Speaker 1>to take over the Liberal Party?

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<v Speaker 2>Now?

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<v Speaker 1>If I was Angus Taylor, which you know, thankfully i'm not,

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<v Speaker 1>and I'm sure he's thankful of that too, I would

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<v Speaker 1>probably want the mess of the election review, which is

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<v Speaker 1>going to be another very messy period for the coalition

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<v Speaker 1>to come out first. I would want some sort of

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<v Speaker 1>cohesive understanding of what the Nationals are going to do,

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<v Speaker 1>and I would want some sort of, you know, at

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<v Speaker 1>least assurance or confidence that the party wasn't going to

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<v Speaker 1>have another kissy fit and dump me.

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<v Speaker 3>As leader just before the next election.

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<v Speaker 1>So so more than likely they're not. Susan Lee won't

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<v Speaker 1>be leader after the next parliament sitting in February. But

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<v Speaker 1>the thing that could save her is that does anyone

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<v Speaker 1>else want that job right now?

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<v Speaker 2>Coming up? Can the coalition get back together while the

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<v Speaker 2>Liberals still don't know how to be alone? Amy? As

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<v Speaker 2>you mentioned, we have heard recently the Liberal Party's internal

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<v Speaker 2>review is done, but as being with hell because Peter

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<v Speaker 2>Dutton says it, the famed him. Is it a reminder

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<v Speaker 2>that the Liberal Party still has a truckload of soul

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<v Speaker 2>searching to do and are they capable of that? Oh?

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<v Speaker 1>I mean you could say truckload, you could say it

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<v Speaker 1>be double load, you could say one of Jupiter's moons,

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<v Speaker 1>like there is so much soul searching for this party

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<v Speaker 1>to do and until.

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<v Speaker 3>They actually work out.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, are we no longer a center right party? Are

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<v Speaker 1>we're going to actually explicitly stop pretending that we still

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<v Speaker 1>have moderates who have any sort of power in the

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<v Speaker 1>Liberal Party. If they want to do that, that's fine.

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<v Speaker 1>They're not going to win government anytime soon, but they

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<v Speaker 1>can't have that discussion because they keep getting caught up

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<v Speaker 1>in these leadership like squabbles.

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<v Speaker 3>And what was.

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<v Speaker 1>Completely underestimated in all of that was how the public

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<v Speaker 1>was feeling, because when you look at the.

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<v Speaker 3>Polls, you can see that alls.

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<v Speaker 1>That happened is the Coalition went further backwards and that

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<v Speaker 1>they potentially at the next election risk losing even more

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<v Speaker 1>seats and they will probably lose them to One Nation

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<v Speaker 1>and to Labor, and that's not great for anyone because Labor,

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<v Speaker 1>in trying to win those coalition seats that they see opportunity,

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<v Speaker 1>are going to move further to the right, or at

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<v Speaker 1>the very least, they're not going to do any of

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<v Speaker 1>the progressive reforms that people have said that they want

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<v Speaker 1>them to do in polls and in voting results. So

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<v Speaker 1>we're going to see another shift to the right in

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<v Speaker 1>the Overton window because the Coalition cannot get it shitited together.

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<v Speaker 2>Despite all of that, amy there were amusings late in

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<v Speaker 2>the week that David Little Proud and Susan Lee, we're

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<v Speaker 2>leaving the door Ajar for a possible reunion. Is that

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<v Speaker 2>possible given the difference which now seem to be gaping,

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<v Speaker 2>And where does that leave the possibility of a coalition

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<v Speaker 2>long term?

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah?

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<v Speaker 1>So does anyone have like that messy couple in their

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<v Speaker 1>lives who are constantly breaking up and then getting back

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<v Speaker 1>together again, And every time they get back together you

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<v Speaker 1>have to pretend like it's going to last.

0:12:43.440 --> 0:12:44.319
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, they do.

0:12:44.600 --> 0:12:49.240
<v Speaker 1>So that's the coalition right now. So like you know, sure,

0:12:49.640 --> 0:12:54.640
<v Speaker 1>maybe like enough senior Nationals and liberals from outside the

0:12:54.640 --> 0:12:58.000
<v Speaker 1>Parliamentary party intervene and say, guys, this is stupid. This

0:12:58.080 --> 0:13:01.559
<v Speaker 1>is not what the Australian people want. You're concentrating on yourselves,

0:13:01.640 --> 0:13:04.000
<v Speaker 1>You're not concentrating on the nation. This is doing nothing

0:13:04.000 --> 0:13:05.720
<v Speaker 1>for cost of living, This is doing nothing to make

0:13:05.760 --> 0:13:09.240
<v Speaker 1>Australian safer. And they get back together again, and everyone's

0:13:09.280 --> 0:13:11.240
<v Speaker 1>going to pretend that it's great and go to the

0:13:11.240 --> 0:13:14.080
<v Speaker 1>dinner parties and pretend, like, you know, just a week

0:13:14.080 --> 0:13:17.240
<v Speaker 1>ago that they weren't just calling up every single person

0:13:17.240 --> 0:13:19.160
<v Speaker 1>that they knew to talk about how terrible they were

0:13:19.200 --> 0:13:22.160
<v Speaker 1>and how glad they were to be free. Probably if

0:13:22.160 --> 0:13:25.240
<v Speaker 1>they get back together again, they will split up again

0:13:25.400 --> 0:13:28.000
<v Speaker 1>because David Little Brown will do anything to hold on

0:13:28.080 --> 0:13:31.200
<v Speaker 1>to his own leadership at the moment, because he might

0:13:31.240 --> 0:13:33.520
<v Speaker 1>have got rid of Barnaby Joyce, but he's now going

0:13:33.600 --> 0:13:37.520
<v Speaker 1>up against Matt Canavan, who's absorbed that de facto Barnaby

0:13:37.600 --> 0:13:40.800
<v Speaker 1>Joyce role within the Nationals of being the disruptor.

0:13:41.200 --> 0:13:44.680
<v Speaker 2>Let's talk about David Little Proud. Is his leadership secure

0:13:45.000 --> 0:13:46.240
<v Speaker 2>in the short do medium term?

0:13:46.600 --> 0:13:48.680
<v Speaker 1>I think it's secure in the short term. I wouldn't

0:13:48.720 --> 0:13:50.839
<v Speaker 1>say that it's secure in the medium turn. I think

0:13:50.880 --> 0:13:52.600
<v Speaker 1>he knows that. I think that's one of the main

0:13:52.679 --> 0:13:55.640
<v Speaker 1>reasons why he has done this. I mean, he did

0:13:55.640 --> 0:13:59.080
<v Speaker 1>not take Susan Lee's calls. He did not listen to anybody.

0:13:59.120 --> 0:14:02.640
<v Speaker 3>He just pulled them. And he's trying to shore up

0:14:02.679 --> 0:14:03.320
<v Speaker 3>his own.

0:14:03.240 --> 0:14:06.120
<v Speaker 1>Electorate because he is one of the politicians under the

0:14:06.120 --> 0:14:09.760
<v Speaker 1>biggest threat of One Nation. If it's vote holds, they've

0:14:09.760 --> 0:14:13.679
<v Speaker 1>got a very big foundation in Marinoa already of One

0:14:13.760 --> 0:14:14.920
<v Speaker 1>Nation taking his seat.

0:14:15.080 --> 0:14:17.560
<v Speaker 3>Labor voters in Marinoa are more likely than.

0:14:17.520 --> 0:14:20.320
<v Speaker 1>Not to put One Nation ahead of the Nationals and

0:14:20.440 --> 0:14:25.480
<v Speaker 1>Barnaby Joyce knows it, and Barnaby Joyce hates David Little Proud.

0:14:25.640 --> 0:14:30.280
<v Speaker 1>He is personally invested in the downfall of David Little Proud.

0:14:30.400 --> 0:14:32.640
<v Speaker 3>And the happiest person in the.

0:14:32.560 --> 0:14:37.440
<v Speaker 1>Country right now is Barnaby Joyce, who has been gleefully

0:14:37.920 --> 0:14:43.440
<v Speaker 1>running around Canberra publicly and privately talking about how.

0:14:43.240 --> 0:14:45.760
<v Speaker 3>Wonderful and amazing this all is.

0:14:47.200 --> 0:14:50.360
<v Speaker 2>Amy, You've warned that we're about to see the worst

0:14:50.400 --> 0:14:54.160
<v Speaker 2>of our politics this year. Has the first sitting week

0:14:54.200 --> 0:14:56.240
<v Speaker 2>of Parliament made you reassess your prediction.

0:14:57.000 --> 0:15:00.440
<v Speaker 1>No, if anything, it's made me double down and you

0:15:00.520 --> 0:15:03.720
<v Speaker 1>really need to start looking out for, you know, just

0:15:04.160 --> 0:15:08.760
<v Speaker 1>marginalized and vulnerable people in your life, because their identities

0:15:08.800 --> 0:15:12.440
<v Speaker 1>are going to be used as political flashpoints in what

0:15:12.680 --> 0:15:17.280
<v Speaker 1>is basically a culture war tantrum that's going to be

0:15:17.320 --> 0:15:21.000
<v Speaker 1>played out in our national Parliament. And we're not about

0:15:21.040 --> 0:15:24.680
<v Speaker 1>to see any sort of Trump style like disruption in

0:15:24.760 --> 0:15:28.360
<v Speaker 1>terms of Pauline Hanson or Barnaby Joyce becoming Prime Minister.

0:15:28.520 --> 0:15:31.840
<v Speaker 1>That's not going to happen. But we are going to

0:15:31.880 --> 0:15:35.880
<v Speaker 1>see people carry out some of their worst instincts, both

0:15:35.920 --> 0:15:37.880
<v Speaker 1>politically and culturally.

0:15:39.520 --> 0:15:42.200
<v Speaker 3>Because when the politicians.

0:15:41.440 --> 0:15:46.000
<v Speaker 1>Are openly debating whether somebody is allowed to feel a

0:15:46.000 --> 0:15:51.160
<v Speaker 1>certain way about their existence, their identity and just living

0:15:51.200 --> 0:15:55.640
<v Speaker 1>their lives as the person they are. When that becomes

0:15:55.920 --> 0:15:58.680
<v Speaker 1>like something that you can make political grisk out of,

0:15:59.720 --> 0:16:02.240
<v Speaker 1>it's bad for the whole country because the politicians will

0:16:02.240 --> 0:16:05.200
<v Speaker 1>give permission for it, and then the worst aspects of

0:16:05.240 --> 0:16:08.120
<v Speaker 1>Australian society will run rampant with it.

0:16:10.280 --> 0:16:12.600
<v Speaker 2>Amy Remikus, thank you so much for your time.

0:16:13.000 --> 0:16:13.400
<v Speaker 3>Thank you.

0:16:27.920 --> 0:16:31.240
<v Speaker 2>Seven Am is a daily show from Solstice Media. It's

0:16:31.240 --> 0:16:36.440
<v Speaker 2>made by Atticus Bastow, Ariel Richards, Chris Dangate, Crystal Color,

0:16:37.080 --> 0:16:43.440
<v Speaker 2>Nicole Johnston, Sarah mcvee, Travis Evans, Zoltenvecho and Me. Daniel

0:16:43.560 --> 0:16:46.520
<v Speaker 2>James Ruby Jones is on to comment and we'll be

0:16:46.560 --> 0:16:49.640
<v Speaker 2>back at the end of March. Our theme music is

0:16:49.680 --> 0:16:53.440
<v Speaker 2>by Ned Beckley and Josh Hogan of Envelope Bordier. Thanks

0:16:53.480 --> 0:17:02.400
<v Speaker 2>so much for listening to seven Am. Have a great weekend.