1 00:00:12,480 --> 00:00:15,640 Speaker 1: From the Australian. This is the Front. I'm Claire Harvey with. 2 00:00:15,640 --> 00:00:18,360 Speaker 2: A special episode on the verdict in the mushroom trial. 3 00:00:27,480 --> 00:00:31,160 Speaker 2: Aaron Patterson has been convicted. After more than two months, 4 00:00:31,240 --> 00:00:34,839 Speaker 2: the blockbuster Mushroom trial has finally come to an end. 5 00:00:35,200 --> 00:00:35,479 Speaker 1: It was a. 6 00:00:35,520 --> 00:00:38,640 Speaker 2: Dramatic moment in the Victorian Supreme Court and I'm joined 7 00:00:38,640 --> 00:00:41,400 Speaker 2: by our Legal affairs correspondent Ellie Dudley to break it 8 00:00:41,440 --> 00:00:41,880 Speaker 2: all down. 9 00:00:42,280 --> 00:00:46,440 Speaker 1: Ellie, are you surprised? Frankly, no, I'm not. From the 10 00:00:46,520 --> 00:00:46,959 Speaker 1: get go. 11 00:00:47,000 --> 00:00:49,239 Speaker 3: I feel like if you spoke to anyone about this, 12 00:00:49,440 --> 00:00:51,400 Speaker 3: you know, And of course when you're spending two months 13 00:00:51,400 --> 00:00:54,240 Speaker 3: in a court in Victoria and a lot of people 14 00:00:54,280 --> 00:00:56,800 Speaker 3: asking me what I thought, and sort of all throughout 15 00:00:57,200 --> 00:01:01,000 Speaker 3: the evidence just was stacked against her, the lies that 16 00:01:01,040 --> 00:01:04,720 Speaker 3: she told, the disposing of the d hydrader, all of the. 17 00:01:04,720 --> 00:01:06,440 Speaker 1: Issues with her case. 18 00:01:06,640 --> 00:01:09,120 Speaker 3: I think from the get go it was obvious that 19 00:01:09,160 --> 00:01:10,959 Speaker 3: she was going to have to mount a pretty stunning 20 00:01:11,000 --> 00:01:12,760 Speaker 3: defense if she was going to get away with this. 21 00:01:13,000 --> 00:01:15,600 Speaker 2: She had a very talented lawyer in Colin Mandy s, 22 00:01:15,959 --> 00:01:18,039 Speaker 2: didn't she. He really gave it his best shot. 23 00:01:18,120 --> 00:01:20,399 Speaker 3: Oh, he really did. And there were times where I 24 00:01:20,480 --> 00:01:22,360 Speaker 3: went the other way, and I thought, Oh, she's going 25 00:01:22,440 --> 00:01:23,000 Speaker 3: to get off. 26 00:01:23,319 --> 00:01:23,520 Speaker 1: You know. 27 00:01:23,600 --> 00:01:27,399 Speaker 3: He raised all kinds of doubt around did she accidentally 28 00:01:27,440 --> 00:01:30,360 Speaker 3: just pick the wrong mushrooms things like that. So she 29 00:01:30,480 --> 00:01:33,240 Speaker 3: really did have a fantastic defense team. And there were 30 00:01:33,280 --> 00:01:36,840 Speaker 3: also times where I thought the prosecution weren't getting at 31 00:01:36,920 --> 00:01:39,640 Speaker 3: what they needed to get at. And it wasn't really 32 00:01:39,720 --> 00:01:44,080 Speaker 3: until the closing arguments that Crown Prosecutor Nnette Rodgers, I thought, 33 00:01:44,240 --> 00:01:47,960 Speaker 3: really drew together the case and showed that the evidence 34 00:01:48,080 --> 00:01:49,200 Speaker 3: was just too much. 35 00:01:49,200 --> 00:01:51,880 Speaker 1: To let Aaron Patterson go. Ellie. 36 00:01:51,920 --> 00:01:53,880 Speaker 2: One of my favorite things about big trials is what 37 00:01:53,920 --> 00:01:56,080 Speaker 2: the jury didn't know, and what the jury didn't know 38 00:01:56,160 --> 00:01:58,360 Speaker 2: in this matter is that Aaron Patterson has been in 39 00:01:58,440 --> 00:02:02,560 Speaker 2: jail for two years and was in custody throughout this trial. 40 00:02:02,960 --> 00:02:05,320 Speaker 2: Where was she sleeping and how did they keep that 41 00:02:05,320 --> 00:02:06,280 Speaker 2: a secret from the jury. 42 00:02:06,600 --> 00:02:09,919 Speaker 3: So she was staying in the cells beneath the courthouse 43 00:02:10,000 --> 00:02:11,760 Speaker 3: during the week and then she'd be taken back to 44 00:02:11,800 --> 00:02:14,240 Speaker 3: prison for the weekend. So every day she came in 45 00:02:14,760 --> 00:02:16,960 Speaker 3: she was dressed in a sort of a rotation of 46 00:02:17,000 --> 00:02:20,080 Speaker 3: different blouses. She had a spotty blouse, a Paisley Boughs 47 00:02:20,160 --> 00:02:24,160 Speaker 3: she had a black, gray colored one a pink striped one, 48 00:02:24,440 --> 00:02:26,200 Speaker 3: and so she'd get changed into that and would sit 49 00:02:26,280 --> 00:02:28,040 Speaker 3: up the back of the courtroom unless, of course, she 50 00:02:28,080 --> 00:02:30,120 Speaker 3: was giving evidence and she was in the witness box, 51 00:02:30,520 --> 00:02:32,960 Speaker 3: and then she would be transported back down to the 52 00:02:33,000 --> 00:02:34,680 Speaker 3: cells if she needs to be back down there, or 53 00:02:34,720 --> 00:02:37,000 Speaker 3: on the weekend she'd go back to prison. There was 54 00:02:37,000 --> 00:02:40,600 Speaker 3: a mad dash every Monday and Friday of photographers because 55 00:02:40,600 --> 00:02:44,760 Speaker 3: of course we wanted photos of Aaron Patterson during that period, 56 00:02:45,040 --> 00:02:46,600 Speaker 3: and that was the only time that you could really 57 00:02:46,639 --> 00:02:49,040 Speaker 3: get her was when she was being transported from the 58 00:02:49,120 --> 00:02:52,120 Speaker 3: cells in the courthouse to the prison that she was 59 00:02:52,120 --> 00:02:54,960 Speaker 3: staying in and had been staying in for two years, so. 60 00:02:55,000 --> 00:02:56,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's where she was. 61 00:02:56,360 --> 00:02:58,880 Speaker 2: Of course, those photographs couldn't be published, and it was 62 00:02:59,000 --> 00:03:02,480 Speaker 2: part of the campaign that the judge was waging, as 63 00:03:02,560 --> 00:03:05,760 Speaker 2: judges always do, to make sure that Aaron Patterson got 64 00:03:05,760 --> 00:03:08,720 Speaker 2: a fair trial. The jury wasn't allowed to know that 65 00:03:08,800 --> 00:03:10,800 Speaker 2: she was in prison, and that meant we weren't allowed 66 00:03:10,840 --> 00:03:12,200 Speaker 2: to publish any of those photographs. 67 00:03:12,280 --> 00:03:14,560 Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely, And a couple of media outlets got in 68 00:03:14,560 --> 00:03:18,079 Speaker 3: trouble on day one of the trial for publishing photos 69 00:03:18,080 --> 00:03:21,840 Speaker 3: of Aaron Patterson shown in handcuffs in prison greens and 70 00:03:21,880 --> 00:03:24,680 Speaker 3: being transported out of a prison van into the court. 71 00:03:25,000 --> 00:03:27,320 Speaker 3: So that was something that the judge was not happy about. 72 00:03:27,480 --> 00:03:29,600 Speaker 3: And then from then on you might have noticed on 73 00:03:29,639 --> 00:03:33,360 Speaker 3: our website we had very tight crops around Aaron Patterson's face. 74 00:03:33,440 --> 00:03:35,600 Speaker 3: That's because we couldn't show that she was in handcuffs 75 00:03:35,680 --> 00:03:37,520 Speaker 3: or that she was being handled by prison officers. 76 00:03:37,720 --> 00:03:39,640 Speaker 2: And of course the reason for that is that the 77 00:03:39,760 --> 00:03:43,120 Speaker 2: jury might think that she was regarded as dangerous or 78 00:03:43,160 --> 00:03:46,040 Speaker 2: that the system had already found her guilty, right. 79 00:03:45,960 --> 00:03:46,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, of course. 80 00:03:46,560 --> 00:03:48,320 Speaker 3: And I think that's something that stands out whenever you 81 00:03:48,360 --> 00:03:51,800 Speaker 3: cover a criminal trial is it's innocent until proven guilty. 82 00:03:52,080 --> 00:03:53,320 Speaker 1: You don't want a jury. 83 00:03:53,080 --> 00:03:55,680 Speaker 3: Sitting there thinking that this woman has done anything wrong 84 00:03:55,760 --> 00:03:58,080 Speaker 3: because at this stage we couldn't definitively say that she 85 00:03:58,120 --> 00:04:00,720 Speaker 3: had done anything wrong, and so the judge was very, 86 00:04:00,800 --> 00:04:01,640 Speaker 3: very sensitive to that. 87 00:04:07,600 --> 00:04:09,240 Speaker 1: Let's get into the facts of this case. 88 00:04:09,360 --> 00:04:13,520 Speaker 2: Simon Patterson Erin Patterson's husband they are still married, but 89 00:04:13,760 --> 00:04:16,440 Speaker 2: he gave evidence against her, and there was a really 90 00:04:16,520 --> 00:04:19,719 Speaker 2: amazing moment early in his testimony where the judge said 91 00:04:19,760 --> 00:04:22,679 Speaker 2: to him, mister Patterson, are you aware that you don't 92 00:04:22,760 --> 00:04:25,839 Speaker 2: have to give evidence against your wife. You could feel 93 00:04:25,839 --> 00:04:28,320 Speaker 2: the oxygen gets sucked out of the courtroom when that happened, 94 00:04:28,360 --> 00:04:28,840 Speaker 2: couldn't you. 95 00:04:28,880 --> 00:04:29,559 Speaker 1: Yeah, you could. 96 00:04:29,600 --> 00:04:33,360 Speaker 3: It's sort of the untold moment of when the trial 97 00:04:33,480 --> 00:04:36,159 Speaker 3: almost tanked. We almost needed to start all over again. 98 00:04:36,240 --> 00:04:39,159 Speaker 3: Because if you're the spouse of an accused person, you 99 00:04:39,240 --> 00:04:40,800 Speaker 3: don't have to give evidence against them. 100 00:04:40,800 --> 00:04:41,760 Speaker 1: You have a right to say no. 101 00:04:42,360 --> 00:04:44,400 Speaker 3: And he clearly didn't know that, and so when the 102 00:04:44,480 --> 00:04:46,080 Speaker 3: judge said to him, Hey, Simon. 103 00:04:45,760 --> 00:04:47,560 Speaker 1: Do you know that you don't need to give evidence? 104 00:04:47,600 --> 00:04:48,480 Speaker 1: He said no. 105 00:04:49,240 --> 00:04:51,520 Speaker 3: Everyone in the media overflow room, which is where I 106 00:04:51,680 --> 00:04:54,200 Speaker 3: was at the time, gasped, sort of grabbed each other 107 00:04:54,279 --> 00:04:56,080 Speaker 3: and went like, is this hit or we're gonna have 108 00:04:56,120 --> 00:04:57,839 Speaker 3: to start again. We're already, you know, a week or 109 00:04:57,880 --> 00:05:00,919 Speaker 3: so into it. And then the judge said, well, do 110 00:05:00,960 --> 00:05:02,960 Speaker 3: you want to continue? And he said yes, I'm happy 111 00:05:03,000 --> 00:05:05,440 Speaker 3: to continue, and everyone breathed a sigh of relief and 112 00:05:05,680 --> 00:05:06,880 Speaker 3: we continued on with the trial. 113 00:05:07,400 --> 00:05:10,000 Speaker 2: That was the sense from him that he was ready 114 00:05:10,040 --> 00:05:13,359 Speaker 2: to have his say, although he managed not to seem 115 00:05:13,960 --> 00:05:17,120 Speaker 2: in any way vitriolic or nasty about Aaron Patterson. 116 00:05:17,120 --> 00:05:20,360 Speaker 1: Did he no, He seemed lovely. He seemed really lovely, 117 00:05:20,480 --> 00:05:22,040 Speaker 1: which I think is it's so. 118 00:05:22,120 --> 00:05:24,600 Speaker 3: Challenging, right, You can't even imagine the sort of situation 119 00:05:24,720 --> 00:05:27,320 Speaker 3: this man finds himself in. He's still got two kids 120 00:05:27,520 --> 00:05:32,120 Speaker 3: with this woman. She's in prison for allegedly murdering his parents, 121 00:05:32,400 --> 00:05:35,160 Speaker 3: his aunt, and attempting to murder his uncle, and yet 122 00:05:35,200 --> 00:05:38,839 Speaker 3: he seemed quite joyful. He spoke quite positively about Aaron 123 00:05:39,000 --> 00:05:39,839 Speaker 3: ninety nine. 124 00:05:39,680 --> 00:05:40,559 Speaker 1: Percent of the time. 125 00:05:40,839 --> 00:05:42,960 Speaker 3: He spoke about how she was witty and funny and 126 00:05:43,000 --> 00:05:45,840 Speaker 3: the things that initially attracted him to her when they 127 00:05:45,839 --> 00:05:47,719 Speaker 3: were working in the Monach City Council together. 128 00:05:47,880 --> 00:05:49,160 Speaker 1: He was quite likable. 129 00:05:49,480 --> 00:05:52,680 Speaker 2: He also painted a picture of someone who was not 130 00:05:52,880 --> 00:05:55,320 Speaker 2: very ill after this mushroom lunch, did he That was 131 00:05:55,360 --> 00:05:58,480 Speaker 2: the real import of his evidence that on the day 132 00:05:58,720 --> 00:06:02,200 Speaker 2: after the lunch, when he was rushing his parents and 133 00:06:02,360 --> 00:06:04,800 Speaker 2: his aunt and uncle to hospital and being by their 134 00:06:04,800 --> 00:06:08,560 Speaker 2: bedsides while they really fought for their lives, she wasn't 135 00:06:08,560 --> 00:06:08,960 Speaker 2: that sick. 136 00:06:09,120 --> 00:06:11,760 Speaker 3: Yeah, And he didn't give any evidence about her being 137 00:06:12,000 --> 00:06:16,040 Speaker 3: particularly unwell. He spoke about times when she said to him, oh, yeah, 138 00:06:16,040 --> 00:06:18,640 Speaker 3: I've been experiencing diarrhea since the afternoon of the lunch. 139 00:06:18,920 --> 00:06:22,080 Speaker 3: But he more strikingly, I guess, spoke about how she 140 00:06:22,160 --> 00:06:25,320 Speaker 3: didn't appear to inquire after his parents or his aunt 141 00:06:25,360 --> 00:06:28,280 Speaker 3: and uncle upon learning that they were seriously unwell, And 142 00:06:28,279 --> 00:06:30,000 Speaker 3: that was something that I think he said was quite 143 00:06:30,000 --> 00:06:32,800 Speaker 3: interesting about his conversations with Erin after the lunch. 144 00:06:33,080 --> 00:06:36,520 Speaker 2: He also painted a picture of a very sad marriage 145 00:06:36,600 --> 00:06:40,320 Speaker 2: really they had after this initial period of romance and 146 00:06:40,360 --> 00:06:43,360 Speaker 2: love and big drives around Australia together, it had all 147 00:06:43,360 --> 00:06:46,440 Speaker 2: come to a crashing halt when they were in Townsville 148 00:06:46,480 --> 00:06:49,000 Speaker 2: and one of their big drives, and she decided to 149 00:06:49,240 --> 00:06:52,400 Speaker 2: fly back to Perth alone, leaving him to drive back 150 00:06:52,440 --> 00:06:55,240 Speaker 2: to Perth with their three month old son. 151 00:06:55,960 --> 00:06:57,080 Speaker 1: It was sad, wasn't it. 152 00:06:57,080 --> 00:06:59,839 Speaker 3: It was sad, and it was a marriage that was 153 00:07:00,320 --> 00:07:03,960 Speaker 3: by brief periods of separation until they separated for good 154 00:07:04,080 --> 00:07:07,120 Speaker 3: in twenty fifteen. The court heard about that time when 155 00:07:07,120 --> 00:07:09,880 Speaker 3: she flew back from Townsville to Perth to be by herself. 156 00:07:09,920 --> 00:07:11,840 Speaker 3: She ended up renting a cottage that she lived in 157 00:07:12,120 --> 00:07:14,640 Speaker 3: with their young son, while Simon Patterson lived in a 158 00:07:14,640 --> 00:07:17,560 Speaker 3: sort of permanent home in a caravan park. They eventually 159 00:07:17,560 --> 00:07:20,840 Speaker 3: moved back to Victoria together, but again brief periods of 160 00:07:20,840 --> 00:07:24,560 Speaker 3: separation until they split in twenty fifteen. But at that point, 161 00:07:24,640 --> 00:07:28,040 Speaker 3: he said they split amicably. They quite still enjoyed each 162 00:07:28,040 --> 00:07:31,240 Speaker 3: other's company. They would engage in banter over text. They'd 163 00:07:31,280 --> 00:07:34,880 Speaker 3: talk about politics, current affairs, that sort of stuff until 164 00:07:34,920 --> 00:07:37,480 Speaker 3: the end of twenty twenty two, in December, when he 165 00:07:37,520 --> 00:07:41,080 Speaker 3: spoke about attention that formed in their relationship in regards 166 00:07:41,120 --> 00:07:44,640 Speaker 3: to child support after he listed himself as separated for 167 00:07:44,680 --> 00:07:46,080 Speaker 3: the first time on his tax return. 168 00:07:46,400 --> 00:07:49,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, he described her being very upset about that, and 169 00:07:49,320 --> 00:07:53,320 Speaker 2: then her trying to draw his parents into the negotiations 170 00:07:53,320 --> 00:07:56,760 Speaker 2: about money, trying to get them to help her have 171 00:07:56,880 --> 00:08:00,720 Speaker 2: simon see reason from her point of view. And that's 172 00:08:00,920 --> 00:08:02,960 Speaker 2: kind of as close as the crown got to coming 173 00:08:03,000 --> 00:08:04,120 Speaker 2: up with a motive. 174 00:08:03,800 --> 00:08:04,840 Speaker 1: Isn't it. Yeah, exactly. 175 00:08:04,920 --> 00:08:07,880 Speaker 3: And that was the big question that anybody was asking 176 00:08:07,920 --> 00:08:10,600 Speaker 3: around this time when the trial was happening, was well, 177 00:08:10,600 --> 00:08:12,520 Speaker 3: if she did it, then why did she do it? 178 00:08:12,600 --> 00:08:15,320 Speaker 3: What motive did she have to kill the relatives of 179 00:08:15,320 --> 00:08:18,720 Speaker 3: her estranged husband. And you're right, Claire, that's the only 180 00:08:18,760 --> 00:08:21,320 Speaker 3: thing really that the crown pointed to that could be 181 00:08:21,440 --> 00:08:25,040 Speaker 3: a motive was in December twenty twenty two, Don and 182 00:08:25,080 --> 00:08:28,080 Speaker 3: Gail Patterson became involved in the marriage of Simon Patterson 183 00:08:28,080 --> 00:08:31,120 Speaker 3: and Aaron Patterson. Aaron was frustrated with them that they 184 00:08:31,160 --> 00:08:34,280 Speaker 3: weren't getting their son to see reason and see her 185 00:08:34,440 --> 00:08:37,560 Speaker 3: side of the story, and she vented about that to 186 00:08:37,600 --> 00:08:40,960 Speaker 3: her online friends, her friends that she made through true 187 00:08:41,040 --> 00:08:43,480 Speaker 3: crime Facebook groups, so she never met in person and 188 00:08:43,559 --> 00:08:46,400 Speaker 3: was only friends with online. She vented to them her 189 00:08:46,440 --> 00:08:50,119 Speaker 3: frustrations about the fact that Don and Gail Patterson suggested 190 00:08:50,240 --> 00:08:52,679 Speaker 3: her and Simon gather together and pray when they were 191 00:08:52,679 --> 00:08:55,679 Speaker 3: having issues about you know, child support and finances and 192 00:08:56,120 --> 00:08:58,599 Speaker 3: you know, sent emojis which the crowd said were I 193 00:08:58,800 --> 00:08:59,720 Speaker 3: rolling emojis. 194 00:08:59,800 --> 00:09:01,079 Speaker 1: She referred to Simon. 195 00:09:00,840 --> 00:09:03,320 Speaker 3: Patterson as a deadbeat, referred to Donn and Gale as 196 00:09:03,320 --> 00:09:06,960 Speaker 3: a lost cause. So that tension in December twenty twenty 197 00:09:06,960 --> 00:09:10,120 Speaker 3: two was the only tension really that the Crown came 198 00:09:10,200 --> 00:09:17,440 Speaker 3: up with between Aaron and the Pattersons. 199 00:09:19,480 --> 00:09:22,800 Speaker 2: The next really bombshell witness was the man who lived, 200 00:09:22,880 --> 00:09:27,440 Speaker 2: Ian Wilkinson, the only survivor of the Mushroom Lunch. On paper, 201 00:09:27,640 --> 00:09:29,920 Speaker 2: he is the perfect witness for the Crown. 202 00:09:30,080 --> 00:09:30,280 Speaker 1: You know. 203 00:09:30,440 --> 00:09:33,040 Speaker 2: He was a minister of the church, a man of 204 00:09:33,080 --> 00:09:37,640 Speaker 2: God seemed like a lovely older man that should have 205 00:09:37,760 --> 00:09:40,520 Speaker 2: been a game changer for the Crown, shouldn't it. Did 206 00:09:40,559 --> 00:09:42,600 Speaker 2: he live up do you think to their expectations of 207 00:09:42,640 --> 00:09:43,320 Speaker 2: what he would say? 208 00:09:43,760 --> 00:09:46,800 Speaker 3: He was so joyful, and I think that the jury 209 00:09:46,840 --> 00:09:49,600 Speaker 3: would have loved him, They really would have. He came in, 210 00:09:49,800 --> 00:09:53,920 Speaker 3: he didn't seem bitter, he didn't seem upset. There were 211 00:09:53,960 --> 00:09:55,839 Speaker 3: times where he was sitting in his chair, in his 212 00:09:55,920 --> 00:09:59,320 Speaker 3: chair kept sinking down in the witness box and it 213 00:09:59,400 --> 00:10:02,320 Speaker 3: was kind of humorous, and you know, he said something like, oh, 214 00:10:02,360 --> 00:10:03,080 Speaker 3: I thought you were. 215 00:10:03,000 --> 00:10:04,240 Speaker 1: Sending me down to the dungeon. 216 00:10:04,280 --> 00:10:07,319 Speaker 3: And Hiss's chair was slowly sinking down in the witness box. 217 00:10:07,360 --> 00:10:12,959 Speaker 1: And he gave quite clear evidence. He wasn't a bombshell witness. 218 00:10:13,080 --> 00:10:14,960 Speaker 3: I don't think in the way that the Crown would 219 00:10:14,960 --> 00:10:18,200 Speaker 3: have expected him to be. He did give clear evidence about, 220 00:10:18,240 --> 00:10:21,400 Speaker 3: for example, how he believed that the lunch guests ate 221 00:10:21,440 --> 00:10:24,719 Speaker 3: off of large gray plates while Aaron Patterson ate off 222 00:10:24,760 --> 00:10:28,160 Speaker 3: a small tan colored plate. He gave an account of 223 00:10:28,240 --> 00:10:31,120 Speaker 3: Aaron Patterson being reluctant to allow the women who were 224 00:10:31,160 --> 00:10:33,160 Speaker 3: present at the lunch to tour her pantry. 225 00:10:33,559 --> 00:10:34,640 Speaker 1: He spoke about how she. 226 00:10:34,720 --> 00:10:37,480 Speaker 3: Rejected help from the women when they offered to help 227 00:10:37,520 --> 00:10:38,320 Speaker 3: plate up the meal. 228 00:10:39,080 --> 00:10:40,199 Speaker 1: But it wasn't a clincher. 229 00:10:40,360 --> 00:10:43,120 Speaker 3: It wasn't a oh, therefore she must have done it moment, 230 00:10:43,280 --> 00:10:45,920 Speaker 3: But it did give us a really clear picture of 231 00:10:46,000 --> 00:10:48,960 Speaker 3: what happened at the lunch and the first account that 232 00:10:49,000 --> 00:10:51,840 Speaker 3: we've really heard from Ane Wilkinson about exactly what he 233 00:10:51,920 --> 00:10:52,720 Speaker 3: recalled occurring. 234 00:10:56,360 --> 00:10:57,360 Speaker 1: Elliot, it's so great. 235 00:10:57,160 --> 00:10:59,480 Speaker 2: To see you in person, because we've been talking remotely 236 00:10:59,520 --> 00:11:01,880 Speaker 2: for the of months that you've been in country Victoria 237 00:11:02,000 --> 00:11:02,880 Speaker 2: in the cold. 238 00:11:02,720 --> 00:11:03,680 Speaker 1: For this trial. 239 00:11:04,160 --> 00:11:07,400 Speaker 2: You've been stepping out of court after the big moments 240 00:11:07,440 --> 00:11:11,400 Speaker 2: to record your initial impressions. It must have been helpful 241 00:11:11,440 --> 00:11:13,719 Speaker 2: to try and sort of pin onto moments that were 242 00:11:13,760 --> 00:11:15,199 Speaker 2: important as the trial went on. 243 00:11:15,360 --> 00:11:16,120 Speaker 1: Oh totally. 244 00:11:16,200 --> 00:11:18,760 Speaker 3: And there were quite a few of those moments, Claire, 245 00:11:18,760 --> 00:11:20,599 Speaker 3: where things would happen and you would. 246 00:11:20,360 --> 00:11:22,760 Speaker 1: Just go, oh, my gosh, that's a moment. 247 00:11:22,840 --> 00:11:25,440 Speaker 3: That's a thing our readers are going to love to 248 00:11:25,520 --> 00:11:28,200 Speaker 3: read about. This is this moment in this trial, whether 249 00:11:28,240 --> 00:11:30,280 Speaker 3: it was something that the prosecution we're clinging. 250 00:11:29,960 --> 00:11:31,680 Speaker 1: To or something the defense were going to cling to. 251 00:11:32,600 --> 00:11:34,559 Speaker 2: Like all murder trials in the modern era, there was 252 00:11:34,600 --> 00:11:37,120 Speaker 2: a lot of forensic evidence in this matter, And by 253 00:11:37,160 --> 00:11:42,320 Speaker 2: forensics I mean digital forensics. So Aaron Patterson's devices, her computer, 254 00:11:42,880 --> 00:11:46,960 Speaker 2: tracking of her movements by her phone ping off various towers. 255 00:11:47,600 --> 00:11:50,319 Speaker 2: Did that seem at points as though it might overwhelm 256 00:11:50,320 --> 00:11:51,600 Speaker 2: the jury with information? 257 00:11:52,120 --> 00:11:55,120 Speaker 3: I think it depends on which digital evidence we're talking about. 258 00:11:55,200 --> 00:11:58,600 Speaker 3: So things like the messages, messages that she exchanged with 259 00:11:58,720 --> 00:12:01,640 Speaker 3: don and Gale, or with her online friends where she 260 00:12:01,720 --> 00:12:04,480 Speaker 3: was complaining about Donn and Gail, or talking about these 261 00:12:04,520 --> 00:12:07,640 Speaker 3: financial disputes. I think that was all quite straightforward for 262 00:12:07,720 --> 00:12:10,200 Speaker 3: a jury. The other evidence that I think was quite 263 00:12:10,240 --> 00:12:13,680 Speaker 3: compelling and quite straightforward for a jury were searchers that 264 00:12:13,720 --> 00:12:17,280 Speaker 3: were made from Aaron Patterson's devices to the eye Naturalist 265 00:12:17,559 --> 00:12:21,280 Speaker 3: online nature sharing platform, where she made searches for death 266 00:12:21,320 --> 00:12:24,080 Speaker 3: cap mushrooms in May twenty twenty two, so a full 267 00:12:24,160 --> 00:12:25,120 Speaker 3: year before the lunch. 268 00:12:25,200 --> 00:12:27,160 Speaker 2: Although she said she couldn't remember having done that. 269 00:12:27,480 --> 00:12:29,480 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, she said she couldn't remember having done 270 00:12:29,520 --> 00:12:31,320 Speaker 3: that at all. But then her defense councils stand up 271 00:12:31,360 --> 00:12:33,640 Speaker 3: in their closing and they say, sort of ignored that 272 00:12:33,679 --> 00:12:34,160 Speaker 3: she said that. 273 00:12:34,520 --> 00:12:36,440 Speaker 1: We accept that that was that was her. 274 00:12:37,000 --> 00:12:38,800 Speaker 3: But things like that I think would stand out in 275 00:12:38,840 --> 00:12:41,640 Speaker 3: the mind of a jury. But then when we got 276 00:12:41,640 --> 00:12:45,880 Speaker 3: to things like the telecommunications data evidence that was given 277 00:12:45,920 --> 00:12:49,880 Speaker 3: by a telecommunications expert called Matthew Sirell. He spoke about 278 00:12:49,960 --> 00:12:54,640 Speaker 3: how Aaron Patterson's device possibly visited areas where deathcapt mushrooms 279 00:12:54,640 --> 00:12:57,960 Speaker 3: had been spotted in the weeks and months before the lunch, 280 00:12:58,280 --> 00:13:00,520 Speaker 3: and I think that might have overwhelmed your That was 281 00:13:00,600 --> 00:13:03,439 Speaker 3: quite technical. The other thing that was quite technical was 282 00:13:03,480 --> 00:13:05,760 Speaker 3: the swapping of the phone. So even I was sitting 283 00:13:05,760 --> 00:13:08,360 Speaker 3: there at times being like, hold on, how many phones 284 00:13:08,400 --> 00:13:10,960 Speaker 3: did she have? She had there was phone A, there 285 00:13:11,000 --> 00:13:12,800 Speaker 3: was Phone B, and then there was a couple of 286 00:13:12,840 --> 00:13:14,319 Speaker 3: other phones, so at one point we had to label 287 00:13:14,360 --> 00:13:16,280 Speaker 3: them phone C. And then there was a fourth phone, 288 00:13:16,320 --> 00:13:18,079 Speaker 3: which I don't think we labeled phone D. But there 289 00:13:18,120 --> 00:13:19,800 Speaker 3: is a fourth phone, and that. 290 00:13:19,760 --> 00:13:22,600 Speaker 1: Drew a flow shot, but check it out. I'll take 291 00:13:22,600 --> 00:13:22,880 Speaker 1: a look. 292 00:13:23,320 --> 00:13:25,719 Speaker 3: And so that was quite I think overwhelming for the 293 00:13:25,800 --> 00:13:28,480 Speaker 3: jury at times, as it was for me. But I 294 00:13:28,480 --> 00:13:31,400 Speaker 3: think towards the end, particularly in her summing up, Jeannette 295 00:13:31,440 --> 00:13:33,800 Speaker 3: Rogers did a really clear job of explaining. 296 00:13:33,960 --> 00:13:37,359 Speaker 1: Okay, so while police were searching. 297 00:13:36,960 --> 00:13:39,960 Speaker 3: Aaron Patterson's home, we believe as the Crown that she 298 00:13:40,000 --> 00:13:41,800 Speaker 3: swapped a SIM card out of this phone and into 299 00:13:41,800 --> 00:13:45,120 Speaker 3: this phone, and she performed factory resets, wiping the data 300 00:13:45,160 --> 00:13:47,160 Speaker 3: off of this phone, and she handed a dummy phone 301 00:13:47,160 --> 00:13:49,520 Speaker 3: to police while concealing her real phone, which we still 302 00:13:49,559 --> 00:13:51,640 Speaker 3: haven't recovered. So she did do a good job of 303 00:13:51,640 --> 00:13:53,280 Speaker 3: summing it up at the end, but there was plenty 304 00:13:53,320 --> 00:13:54,840 Speaker 3: of forensic digital evidence. 305 00:13:58,520 --> 00:14:01,000 Speaker 2: Aaron Patterson didn't deny I have done any of that. 306 00:14:01,040 --> 00:14:03,760 Speaker 2: And in fact, one thing that she tried to explain 307 00:14:03,800 --> 00:14:05,160 Speaker 2: to the jury in a way that I don't think 308 00:14:05,200 --> 00:14:08,600 Speaker 2: really landed was she was asked why she did a 309 00:14:08,640 --> 00:14:13,120 Speaker 2: factory reset remotely of Phone B, her secondary phone, after 310 00:14:13,320 --> 00:14:15,439 Speaker 2: it was in the custody of police while it was 311 00:14:15,480 --> 00:14:18,920 Speaker 2: sitting in the lead homicide detective's locker at one Faggy 312 00:14:18,960 --> 00:14:20,760 Speaker 2: police station after midnight. 313 00:14:21,280 --> 00:14:23,520 Speaker 1: She said, well, I thought i'd. 314 00:14:23,320 --> 00:14:25,360 Speaker 2: Just see if they would have been silly enough to 315 00:14:25,440 --> 00:14:27,120 Speaker 2: leave it turned on, and in fact they had. 316 00:14:28,080 --> 00:14:29,360 Speaker 1: I wondered if that was going to. 317 00:14:29,280 --> 00:14:32,000 Speaker 2: Impress the jury or if they would think you shouldn't 318 00:14:32,000 --> 00:14:33,520 Speaker 2: be trying to treat the police totally. 319 00:14:33,680 --> 00:14:35,760 Speaker 3: I think her tone, even the tone that you just 320 00:14:35,800 --> 00:14:37,880 Speaker 3: gave us then, Claire, that I wanted to see if 321 00:14:37,920 --> 00:14:40,240 Speaker 3: they were silly enough to not have put it in 322 00:14:40,280 --> 00:14:41,600 Speaker 3: aeroplane mode or whatever. 323 00:14:41,640 --> 00:14:42,080 Speaker 1: She said. 324 00:14:42,720 --> 00:14:45,080 Speaker 3: I didn't think that was particularly impressive for a jury. 325 00:14:45,120 --> 00:14:46,720 Speaker 3: I don't think that a jury would have liked to 326 00:14:46,760 --> 00:14:50,120 Speaker 3: have seen her, yeah, trying to trick the police or 327 00:14:50,520 --> 00:14:53,120 Speaker 3: acting like she was cleverer than the police, because of 328 00:14:53,120 --> 00:14:54,920 Speaker 3: course she would have known to put it into airplane 329 00:14:54,960 --> 00:14:56,520 Speaker 3: mode if it was taken by the cops. 330 00:14:56,520 --> 00:14:57,880 Speaker 1: So yeah, it was odd from her. 331 00:15:01,000 --> 00:15:04,440 Speaker 2: The lead detective in the case was Stephen Eppingstall, a 332 00:15:04,440 --> 00:15:06,280 Speaker 2: country cop from Victoria. 333 00:15:07,040 --> 00:15:09,560 Speaker 1: He was charming, wasn't and he charmed the jury. 334 00:15:09,720 --> 00:15:13,000 Speaker 3: Yeah, he was beautiful. He stood up the entire time 335 00:15:13,040 --> 00:15:15,360 Speaker 3: he gave evidence. He didn't sit and one point I 336 00:15:15,440 --> 00:15:16,760 Speaker 3: judged the reported next to me. I was like, can 337 00:15:16,760 --> 00:15:18,720 Speaker 3: he sit down, the poor guy. I can't hear him properly, 338 00:15:18,760 --> 00:15:20,880 Speaker 3: he's too far away from the microphone. And she said, no, 339 00:15:20,880 --> 00:15:22,720 Speaker 3: it's a sign of respect. They do it out of respect. 340 00:15:22,760 --> 00:15:24,520 Speaker 3: I was like, that's lovely, and I think the jury 341 00:15:24,520 --> 00:15:28,440 Speaker 3: would have loved that. He also kept saying sir and ma'am. 342 00:15:29,000 --> 00:15:31,120 Speaker 3: At one point it was either judge or Mandy pulled 343 00:15:31,160 --> 00:15:32,920 Speaker 3: him up and said, you don't have to say that 344 00:15:32,960 --> 00:15:34,880 Speaker 3: after every answer and he goes, sorry, sir. 345 00:15:34,960 --> 00:15:37,480 Speaker 1: It was lovely. It was really lovely. 346 00:15:38,000 --> 00:15:40,560 Speaker 3: And I think that he would have been quite convincing 347 00:15:40,600 --> 00:15:43,120 Speaker 3: to a jury, or quite a solid witness to a jury, 348 00:15:43,120 --> 00:15:45,440 Speaker 3: because he's got nothing to gain through any of this 349 00:15:45,520 --> 00:15:48,840 Speaker 3: other than he's done diligent detective work to try and 350 00:15:49,080 --> 00:15:50,360 Speaker 3: prove if a crime occurred. 351 00:15:54,360 --> 00:15:57,840 Speaker 2: Coming up Aaron Patterson's momentous decision to step into the 352 00:15:57,880 --> 00:15:58,600 Speaker 2: witness box. 353 00:15:58,800 --> 00:16:00,200 Speaker 1: That's after the break. 354 00:16:14,000 --> 00:16:18,720 Speaker 2: Late in the trial, Aaron Patterson surprised everyone by giving evidence. 355 00:16:18,800 --> 00:16:21,160 Speaker 2: This is something she did not have to do, and 356 00:16:21,200 --> 00:16:23,280 Speaker 2: it was something in discussion. 357 00:16:22,920 --> 00:16:23,880 Speaker 1: While the jury was out. 358 00:16:23,880 --> 00:16:26,600 Speaker 2: Throughout the trial, Colin Mandy had played very close to 359 00:16:26,680 --> 00:16:29,360 Speaker 2: his chest. At one point he was directly asked by 360 00:16:29,360 --> 00:16:32,080 Speaker 2: the judge is your client going to give evidence? And 361 00:16:32,120 --> 00:16:34,240 Speaker 2: he said, I don't want to answer that question, which 362 00:16:34,280 --> 00:16:34,840 Speaker 2: put us all. 363 00:16:34,800 --> 00:16:36,840 Speaker 1: All on the edge of us. See did Yeah, it 364 00:16:36,880 --> 00:16:37,520 Speaker 1: absolutely did. 365 00:16:37,560 --> 00:16:39,960 Speaker 3: I said earlier that the one question I was asked 366 00:16:40,000 --> 00:16:42,120 Speaker 3: about the trial was well, what's the motive? The other 367 00:16:42,200 --> 00:16:44,760 Speaker 3: question is is Aaron Patterson going to give evidence? Because 368 00:16:44,760 --> 00:16:46,880 Speaker 3: you're right, she doesn't have to, and a lot of 369 00:16:46,880 --> 00:16:49,840 Speaker 3: people would be advised against it, right, because if you 370 00:16:49,920 --> 00:16:52,560 Speaker 3: are going to give evidence to give your side of 371 00:16:52,600 --> 00:16:55,480 Speaker 3: the story, you're open to cross examination. You know, the 372 00:16:55,480 --> 00:16:58,040 Speaker 3: prosecutor can come through and ask you everything you know. 373 00:16:58,120 --> 00:17:00,280 Speaker 3: Nannette Rogers came through and asked her all about why 374 00:17:00,320 --> 00:17:03,320 Speaker 3: she lied about having cancer, asked her about her relationships 375 00:17:03,400 --> 00:17:06,280 Speaker 3: with these people, asked her about her religion, her weight, all. 376 00:17:06,160 --> 00:17:08,919 Speaker 1: Of these things. But she did. She was called to 377 00:17:08,920 --> 00:17:09,520 Speaker 1: give evidence. 378 00:17:09,560 --> 00:17:13,520 Speaker 3: There were gasps amongst the media overflow room because I 379 00:17:13,520 --> 00:17:15,919 Speaker 3: don't think anybody really expected that she was going to 380 00:17:15,960 --> 00:17:16,240 Speaker 3: do it. 381 00:17:16,440 --> 00:17:18,719 Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a reason why most accused don't give evidence, 382 00:17:18,720 --> 00:17:21,320 Speaker 2: and that's that you will be cross examined by the crown. 383 00:17:21,440 --> 00:17:24,000 Speaker 2: So the pressure was on Nanett Rodgers to deliver a 384 00:17:24,040 --> 00:17:25,119 Speaker 2: good cross examination. 385 00:17:25,680 --> 00:17:26,440 Speaker 1: In her evidence. 386 00:17:26,480 --> 00:17:30,960 Speaker 2: Aaron Patterson came up with two new explanations that the 387 00:17:31,080 --> 00:17:32,680 Speaker 2: jury had not heard before. 388 00:17:32,960 --> 00:17:34,119 Speaker 1: The first was that. 389 00:17:34,000 --> 00:17:39,320 Speaker 2: She was suffering from bulimia and had vomited after the lunch. 390 00:17:40,040 --> 00:17:43,960 Speaker 2: This was never quite linked directly by her, but it 391 00:17:44,160 --> 00:17:48,320 Speaker 2: was implied as an explanation for why she didn't suffer 392 00:17:48,359 --> 00:17:49,560 Speaker 2: death cat mushroom poisoning. 393 00:17:50,480 --> 00:17:54,320 Speaker 3: Yeah, she never used the word bulimia, but she just 394 00:17:54,359 --> 00:17:57,800 Speaker 3: went so close to it. She spoke about binge eating. 395 00:17:58,640 --> 00:18:00,400 Speaker 3: In days in a lead up to her, we had 396 00:18:00,440 --> 00:18:03,760 Speaker 3: heard about her self esteem issues. We'd heard about diet 397 00:18:03,800 --> 00:18:06,040 Speaker 3: books she had purchased, and we're all sitting there thinking, 398 00:18:06,040 --> 00:18:06,840 Speaker 3: where's this going. 399 00:18:06,880 --> 00:18:08,880 Speaker 1: Why do we need to care that this woman had 400 00:18:08,880 --> 00:18:09,800 Speaker 1: low self esteem? 401 00:18:10,680 --> 00:18:12,920 Speaker 3: And then it came that she said that she had 402 00:18:13,160 --> 00:18:15,720 Speaker 3: issues with binge eating. She spoke about how when she 403 00:18:15,880 --> 00:18:18,560 Speaker 3: was a kid, her mum weighed her, and then she 404 00:18:18,640 --> 00:18:21,360 Speaker 3: gave this sort of stunning account. 405 00:18:20,920 --> 00:18:23,760 Speaker 1: Of when her lunch guests left her home. 406 00:18:24,240 --> 00:18:26,000 Speaker 3: She said she cleaned up for a bit, and then 407 00:18:26,520 --> 00:18:28,639 Speaker 3: she had one piece of cake, and then she had 408 00:18:28,640 --> 00:18:30,880 Speaker 3: another piece of cake, and then she had another piece 409 00:18:30,920 --> 00:18:33,080 Speaker 3: of cake. And as she was saying it, you were going, oh, 410 00:18:33,119 --> 00:18:36,199 Speaker 3: my gosh, she threw up the meal, because before this 411 00:18:36,240 --> 00:18:39,720 Speaker 3: we had no other proper explanation for why she didn't 412 00:18:39,760 --> 00:18:42,600 Speaker 3: fall as sick as the rest of the other lunch 413 00:18:42,640 --> 00:18:44,760 Speaker 3: guests did. But all of a sudden there was this 414 00:18:44,760 --> 00:18:47,920 Speaker 3: moment of clarity of oh, she threw up the meal. 415 00:18:48,440 --> 00:18:52,200 Speaker 3: But even that was the undercross examination, doctor Rogers said 416 00:18:52,200 --> 00:18:54,600 Speaker 3: to her, is it your case that you threw up 417 00:18:54,640 --> 00:18:56,800 Speaker 3: the beef? Wellington that you know, she spoke about eating 418 00:18:56,800 --> 00:18:59,760 Speaker 3: all the cake and then making yourself vomit, and she said, 419 00:19:00,160 --> 00:19:01,919 Speaker 3: I don't know it was vomit. How could I know 420 00:19:01,960 --> 00:19:03,400 Speaker 3: what was in there unless you can see a bean 421 00:19:03,520 --> 00:19:04,920 Speaker 3: or a piece of potato. How do you know what 422 00:19:04,960 --> 00:19:05,959 Speaker 3: you actually vomited up. 423 00:19:06,000 --> 00:19:08,439 Speaker 2: I thought that was a missed opportunity by Nanette Rogers 424 00:19:08,480 --> 00:19:11,679 Speaker 2: to really grill her on why she hadn't said to 425 00:19:12,000 --> 00:19:14,280 Speaker 2: anyone at the hospital, her children, her. 426 00:19:14,240 --> 00:19:17,240 Speaker 1: Husband that she had thrown up after this lunch. 427 00:19:17,240 --> 00:19:19,920 Speaker 3: Oh you'd think so, right, And there was the defense 428 00:19:20,000 --> 00:19:22,320 Speaker 3: put forward this sort of idea that she was very 429 00:19:22,320 --> 00:19:25,600 Speaker 3: ashamed of her weight, that she was sort of this sad, overweight. 430 00:19:25,280 --> 00:19:26,040 Speaker 1: Middle aged woman. 431 00:19:26,720 --> 00:19:29,440 Speaker 3: And so I guess the explanation would be, oh, well, 432 00:19:29,480 --> 00:19:32,480 Speaker 3: I was ashamed and you know, binge eating and eating 433 00:19:32,480 --> 00:19:36,439 Speaker 3: disorders as such humiliating things that I didn't want to 434 00:19:36,720 --> 00:19:40,080 Speaker 3: tell anybody about it. But when four of your lunch 435 00:19:40,119 --> 00:19:42,720 Speaker 3: guests are dying, surely at that stage you say, oh yeah, 436 00:19:42,720 --> 00:19:43,520 Speaker 3: I may mess off from it. 437 00:19:43,560 --> 00:19:46,280 Speaker 1: Even if you say I vomited. It's really bizarre. 438 00:19:51,359 --> 00:19:54,159 Speaker 2: Shame was central to the other part of her explanation, 439 00:19:54,320 --> 00:19:57,840 Speaker 2: and this is her explanation for why don and Gel 440 00:19:57,920 --> 00:20:02,119 Speaker 2: Patterson thought that she had cancer. In text messages tended 441 00:20:02,119 --> 00:20:05,040 Speaker 2: to the jury, she had hinted to Gail Patterson that 442 00:20:05,080 --> 00:20:08,320 Speaker 2: she had a very serious medical issue, that she needed 443 00:20:08,320 --> 00:20:10,320 Speaker 2: them to come over to the house and discuss so 444 00:20:10,359 --> 00:20:12,280 Speaker 2: that the children wouldn't be there, that she wanted to 445 00:20:12,320 --> 00:20:15,439 Speaker 2: have an adults conversation about it. I Wilkinson said that 446 00:20:15,560 --> 00:20:19,000 Speaker 2: at the lunch she told them she had ovarian cancer. 447 00:20:19,400 --> 00:20:22,120 Speaker 2: She denied that she ever said specifically that she had cancer, 448 00:20:22,800 --> 00:20:26,280 Speaker 2: but her story was that she did have surgery coming up. 449 00:20:26,359 --> 00:20:29,280 Speaker 2: She was going to need help looking after the children. 450 00:20:29,640 --> 00:20:32,320 Speaker 2: But it wasn't cancer surgery. It was a gastric band. 451 00:20:32,760 --> 00:20:34,960 Speaker 3: She was sort of fumbly on the detail. She's like, oh, 452 00:20:35,040 --> 00:20:38,040 Speaker 3: I think it's called a gastric bypass. She said that 453 00:20:38,080 --> 00:20:41,159 Speaker 3: she had booked in a pre assessment consultation with a 454 00:20:41,160 --> 00:20:42,520 Speaker 3: clinic called the Enriched. 455 00:20:42,240 --> 00:20:45,240 Speaker 1: Clinic in Melbourne, which turned out to be a dermatologist. 456 00:20:45,320 --> 00:20:47,960 Speaker 3: Yeah, she had a dermatologist and you know, perhaps maybe 457 00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:51,280 Speaker 3: offered life posuction but doesn't offer life perstruction anymore, but 458 00:20:51,359 --> 00:20:53,439 Speaker 3: did at the time that she booked her appointment. So 459 00:20:53,480 --> 00:20:56,359 Speaker 3: it was all kind of confusing evidence there. But that 460 00:20:56,480 --> 00:20:58,800 Speaker 3: was another shock, right. It was the explanation that she 461 00:20:58,840 --> 00:21:02,200 Speaker 3: put up for why she loved died about needing treatment 462 00:21:02,240 --> 00:21:05,080 Speaker 3: for ovarian cancer. And the other part of that was 463 00:21:05,080 --> 00:21:08,240 Speaker 3: her explanation that she just really appreciated the love that 464 00:21:08,280 --> 00:21:10,720 Speaker 3: she had received from Don Gale when she had told 465 00:21:10,720 --> 00:21:13,200 Speaker 3: them that she was getting these medical tests. She said 466 00:21:13,200 --> 00:21:15,640 Speaker 3: that she appreciated the attention that she got from them 467 00:21:15,680 --> 00:21:17,919 Speaker 3: and she wanted to get more of that from them. 468 00:21:17,960 --> 00:21:25,680 Speaker 1: So a couple of interesting explanations from Erin. Well. 469 00:21:25,680 --> 00:21:28,480 Speaker 2: The trial's over, Ellie, and next will be sentencing. Aaron 470 00:21:28,480 --> 00:21:31,760 Speaker 2: Patterson's being convicted. These are serious offenses. She will face 471 00:21:31,760 --> 00:21:35,800 Speaker 2: a long custodial sentence. She'll perhaps never see daylight again. 472 00:21:36,320 --> 00:21:38,960 Speaker 2: And the sentencing hearing itself will be fascinating, won't it. 473 00:21:39,119 --> 00:21:39,320 Speaker 1: Yeah? 474 00:21:39,400 --> 00:21:42,080 Speaker 3: Will We'll be getting witness impact statements from all of 475 00:21:42,119 --> 00:21:45,560 Speaker 3: the people who have been impacted by Aaron Patterson's crimes. 476 00:21:45,880 --> 00:21:48,960 Speaker 3: It'll be terribly sad, I'm sure, but yeah, she's going 477 00:21:49,000 --> 00:21:49,880 Speaker 3: away for a long time. 478 00:22:02,000 --> 00:22:05,840 Speaker 2: The Australians, John Ferguson broke the story of the Mushroom debts, 479 00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:09,160 Speaker 2: and we've led this story at every twist and turn. 480 00:22:09,640 --> 00:22:13,639 Speaker 2: You can read John's eye popping inside story, Ellie's reporting 481 00:22:13,680 --> 00:22:17,680 Speaker 2: and analysis, Plus see graphics, photos, videos and more at 482 00:22:17,720 --> 00:22:20,560 Speaker 2: the Australian dot com dot au right now