Speaker 1: The public has had a long held fascination with detectives.
Speaker 2: Detective see a side of life.
Speaker 1: The average person is never exposed her I spent thirty
Speaker 1: four years as a cop. For twenty five of those
Speaker 1: years I was catching killers. That's what I did for
Speaker 1: a living. I was a homicide detective. I'm no longer
Speaker 1: just interviewing bad guys. Instead, I'm taking the public into
Speaker 1: the world in which I operated. The guests I talk
Speaker 1: to each week have amazing stories from all sides of
Speaker 1: the law. The interviews are raw and honest, just like
Speaker 1: the people I talk to. Some of the content and
Speaker 1: language might be confronting. That's because no one who comes
Speaker 1: into contact with crime is left unchanged. Join me now,
Speaker 1: as I take you into this world. We're doing something
Speaker 1: a little different. This week, I was contacted by Kathleen Kirby.
Speaker 1: Kathleen is the mother of Audrey Griffin, a nine erene
Speaker 1: year old girl who was murdered on the central coast
Speaker 1: of New South Wales by Adrian Torrance on the third
Speaker 1: of March. Earlier this year, Audrey had been out celebrating
Speaker 1: her exciting new career news with friends, and she had
Speaker 1: a whole life ahead of her, but that same night,
Speaker 1: Torrence was out on bail facing numerous unrelated domestic violence charges.
Speaker 1: He was a complete stranger to Audrey. For this episode,
Speaker 1: we've traveled up to Gosford, which is about now north
Speaker 1: of Sydney, to take a deeper look at Audrey's case
Speaker 1: and talk to Audrey's mother, Kathleen. I'm standing out the
Speaker 1: front of Gossip Hotel. This is in the main street
Speaker 1: of Gosford. This was where Audrey Griffin was last seen alive.
Speaker 1: It was about two am on Sunday morning, the twenty
Speaker 1: third of March twenty twenty five. She was going from
Speaker 1: this location to stay at a friend's place. It was
Speaker 1: about five to six kilometers away, but she never made it.
Speaker 1: From an investigating point of view, this is a crucial location.
Speaker 1: It was the last time that Audrey's friends saw her alive.
Speaker 1: She's found deceased approximately fourteen hours later. As you can see,
Speaker 1: there's a lot of CCTV cameras around here. This is
Speaker 1: not unusual for a licensed premises and this would be
Speaker 1: a starting point for a police investigation into finding out
Speaker 1: what happened to Audrey Griffin. It is our understanding she
Speaker 1: was trying to get home to stay at a friend's place
Speaker 1: at the green Point, which is probably at I guess
Speaker 1: eight kilometers from this location. Like a lot of people
Speaker 1: that have been out late at night on the Central Coast,
Speaker 1: it's always difficult to get home. Taxis are hard to
Speaker 1: come by, ubers are hard to come by. Invariably people
Speaker 1: start walking along the mainstream and looking for a taxi.
Speaker 1: It's believed by Audrey's friends that's what she was doing
Speaker 1: and the reason she walked along this path.
Speaker 2: So what we're doing now.
Speaker 1: Is effectively tracking the path that we believe Audrey would
Speaker 1: have been walking whilst heading home to stay at the
Speaker 1: friend's place at green Point. You can see this as
Speaker 1: main Street. This is the main street and I think
Speaker 1: it's even called main street at Gosford. There's a lot
Speaker 1: of businesses along here. These are the type of businesses
Speaker 1: that might keep a CCTV footage. So from an investigative
Speaker 1: point of view, if you're trying to establish what path
Speaker 1: a person took, you'd be checking these premises to see
Speaker 1: if there was any CCTV footage to see if Audrey
Speaker 1: was walking along this road. We're now driving past Gosford
Speaker 1: Police Station that you can see on the left. That's
Speaker 1: the actual command that was investigating Audrey's death. They'd be
Speaker 1: very familiar with this area and familiar with the fact
Speaker 1: that young people will find it hard to get home
Speaker 1: at night, and the likelihood that Audrey would be walking
Speaker 1: along along the road we're traveling on now. There's a
Speaker 1: few quiet locations like this, but this is still near
Speaker 1: the center of the Gosford CBD, so I think even
Speaker 1: a young female would be feeling safe walking along along
Speaker 1: this area. We're now coming into the area where Audrey
Speaker 1: was murdered. You can see there's a creek, or it's
Speaker 1: referred to as there in a creek, it's more like
Speaker 1: a river. It's fairly substantial. We're driving on a main
Speaker 1: road and there's a pathway that runs between the main
Speaker 1: road and the creek. This is a pathway that Audrey
Speaker 1: was walking along at the time that she came across Torrance,
Speaker 1: the person who killed her. I'm just indicating to the
Speaker 1: location in which Audrey was murdered. So we'll just pull up.
Speaker 1: We're standing at the location Audrey Griffin's body was found.
Speaker 1: She's found in the face down in the creek. There's
Speaker 1: a big a set up with photos. There's flowers, lots
Speaker 1: and lots of photos of Audrey and the friends, some
Speaker 1: clothing hung, all sorts of things, even lights, flowers, stuffed toys, candles,
Speaker 1: a whole range of things with Audrey's name written. One
Speaker 1: thing that really stands out to me with a memorial
Speaker 1: like this it's clearly just been set up by friends
Speaker 1: of Audrey's, is how popular she must have been. How
Speaker 1: many photos full of life photos there are, just as
Speaker 1: her mum described as someone that was full of life.
Speaker 1: And that just makes me sad standing here at the
Speaker 1: location thinking, just one man's rage has stolen a young
Speaker 1: girl's life. Just such a senseless, senseless killing. I'm going
Speaker 1: to describe the location then just give him the thoughts
Speaker 1: on how you'd approach this from an investigative point of view.
Speaker 1: We know Audrey was last seen alive at Hotel Gosford
Speaker 1: about two am, where she's been out celebrating with her friends.
Speaker 1: I'm just walking along the pathway where Tyrans would have
Speaker 1: been following Audrey. We know he at first was behind her,
Speaker 1: possibly a kilometer back. This particular location is near where
Speaker 1: Audrey was murdered. And what stands out to me here
Speaker 1: if I'm looking back along the roadway. There there's not
Speaker 1: a lot of trees separating between the roadway and the
Speaker 1: pathway that Audrey would have been walking along. Just here
Speaker 1: there's a clump of trees and there's a couple of
Speaker 1: electrical boxes. I think that might make a difference if
Speaker 1: he was going to strike, and I'm trying to anticipate
Speaker 1: what's going through his mind, but there is a bit
Speaker 1: of cover here for him. If this is where he
Speaker 1: actually approached Audrey, we don't know what conversation has had,
Speaker 1: what exactly happened, but there is a bit of distance
Speaker 1: between the roadway and the pathway where that might have
Speaker 1: been the reason he chose this particular location to approach Audrey.
Speaker 1: It is quite chilling to think what she went through,
Speaker 1: and she had a whole life ahead of her, and
Speaker 1: it just breaks my heart and it makes me angry
Speaker 1: that a person like Torran's, just an angry, violent, waste
Speaker 1: of space human being, has taken someone's life like Audrey's,
Speaker 1: who had so much to offer the world. Another bit
Speaker 1: of I suppose sadness that's attached to attach this life
Speaker 1: is the fact that it was Audrey's friends. Young Girls
Speaker 1: nineteen year old girls that found Audrey found their friend.
Speaker 1: They were so concerned about her, they went and started
Speaker 1: looking around here along with another family friend and our
Speaker 1: older friend came down here, found some of the property
Speaker 1: and searched a bit further and then found her flooding
Speaker 1: the water, deceased. So I can only imagine the trauma
Speaker 1: their carrying. This is a fairly isolated location, isolated in
Speaker 1: the early hours of the morning.
Speaker 2: It's not a dangerous location.
Speaker 1: It's not a location where you think someone would actually
Speaker 1: trip and fall into the water.
Speaker 2: So there's a number of concerns.
Speaker 1: If you find the person's body, young girl nineteen years
Speaker 1: old out celebrating and find her deceased in this river,
Speaker 1: of course you're going to investigate it as suspicious. A
Speaker 1: couple of things that really strike me about this location
Speaker 1: and the initial police search was it was a matter
Speaker 1: of days I believed before they found her phone. If
Speaker 1: someone did, let's talk hypothetically, trip and fall into the water,
Speaker 1: extremely unlikely. One would expect you'd find all the property
Speaker 1: that she had on her at the time with her.
Speaker 1: Her phone wasn't with her. They didn't find her phone,
Speaker 1: So just from that point of view, I think the
Speaker 1: matter should be treated as suspicious. You're looking at unnatural causes.
Speaker 1: You start a homicide investigation, you treat it as potentially suspicious.
Speaker 1: One thing that I was taught as a young detective
Speaker 1: was never assume something is misadventure or natural causes unless
Speaker 1: you can gather the evidence to prove that. From what
Speaker 1: I see at this location, you can't gather evidence to
Speaker 1: prove that it was a misadventure. There was an assumption
Speaker 1: made that this was misadventure. As it turned out, it
Speaker 1: was a cold blooded murder. And the way that phone
Speaker 1: was found is also a little concerning in that it
Speaker 1: was a friend, a family friend of Audrey's mother's friend, Lana,
Speaker 1: found the phone. Audrey's mother, Kathleen, was told that the
Speaker 1: location had been searched on numerous occasions, but apparently only
Speaker 1: when the tide was high. Lana came down here three
Speaker 1: days later and found the phone. She could see something
Speaker 1: sticking out. She contacted police, well pick it up and
Speaker 1: bring it to the police station. Thankfully that Lana was
Speaker 1: a little bit more cluey on that and spoke to
Speaker 1: another police officer and they sent police down immediately to
Speaker 1: collect the phone and gather it as potential evidence. If
Speaker 1: Lana was to pick up the phone, potentially it could
Speaker 1: have been contaminated. There potentially could have been DNA or
Speaker 1: fingerprints or some evidence trace material on the phone from
Speaker 1: the offender. Another thing that's quite chilling about this crime
Speaker 1: scene is when Kathleen describes going to see Audrey in
Speaker 1: the post more than to say a goodbyes, as she said,
Speaker 1: which is very sad, that what really haunts her is
Speaker 1: the fact that Audrey didn't look at peace. She had
Speaker 1: her hair were platted, but she had mud and dirt
Speaker 1: in a hair. And something that really struck home with
Speaker 1: Kathleen that Audrey's fingernails had mud under there under the
Speaker 1: fingernails light she was struggling like she was fighting, and
Speaker 1: I think that's something that really haunt haunts Kathleen. The
Speaker 1: other thing about it, which I find quite alarming, DNA
Speaker 1: from the offender, Torreans, was found under Audrey's fingernails. That
Speaker 1: would be one of the first things you're looking for
Speaker 1: when you're looking at a post more than a deceased person.
Speaker 1: In these situations. If you take the camera up here
Speaker 1: and you look across the creek to the river, there's
Speaker 1: houses up there, houses that I think should be canvas,
Speaker 1: and by canvas I mean daw not to find out
Speaker 1: if anyone heard anything suspicious. It's fairly noisy here now
Speaker 1: because of the traffic, but at two o'clock in the morning,
Speaker 1: it's probably not so noisy. As it turned out, one
Speaker 1: of the people in the houses across there heard a
Speaker 1: female screaming at about two forty five. Sadly it was
Speaker 1: most likely Audrey fighting for her life. That evidence was
Speaker 1: uncovered by Kathleen, Audrey's mother. That shouldn't happen. These are
Speaker 1: the type of things that need to be done, all
Speaker 1: the canvases that need to be done.
Speaker 2: A nineteen year.
Speaker 1: Old girl, fit, healthy, active, happy girl was found to
Speaker 1: cease in the water. This is something that should have
Speaker 1: been treated suspiciously right from the start. And I think
Speaker 1: the frustration with the family, and this is a sense
Speaker 1: I get speaking to the family, is that how was
Speaker 1: it written off as misadventure so early in the investigation.
Speaker 1: That might have been the conclusion they came to after
Speaker 1: a thorough investigation, but so early in the investigation for
Speaker 1: it to be written off as a misadventure. I don't
Speaker 1: know if it's miscommunication between the police and the family,
Speaker 1: but it's something.
Speaker 2: That we might try and find out. I sat down
Speaker 2: with Kathleen.
Speaker 1: For a very raw and unfiltered chat to shed light
Speaker 1: on the impact of this senseless crime and the investigation
Speaker 1: that followed. You're right at the start, absolutely okay. I
Speaker 1: can't really start this conversation without offering my condolences for
Speaker 1: what happened to Audrey. And I know words don't mean
Speaker 1: a great deal the subject that we're talking about here,
Speaker 1: but thank you. It's now been how long since Audrey
Speaker 1: was murd To.
Speaker 3: Be honest, I don't know. Twenty third of March was
Speaker 3: when she passed.
Speaker 1: I would imagine your life changed inconceivably since that time.
Speaker 3: I wouldn't say I have a life anymore.
Speaker 1: It's a heavy thing to say.
Speaker 3: I don't know. It's just I don't know if it's
Speaker 3: a real numbness, just numb myself by keeping myself extremely busy,
Speaker 3: find it very hard to be alone, to sit still.
Speaker 3: I'd say that I haven't accepted or given myself time
Speaker 3: to agree for Audrey.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you've had a lot a lot going on, and
Speaker 1: I know we've met on occasions and had a lot
Speaker 1: of conversations and see the way the emotions. Yeah, sometimes
Speaker 1: when I'm speaking to you, I feel like, Okay, it's
Speaker 1: a step forward, and other times it feels like a
Speaker 1: step back, step back for it.
Speaker 3: Oh, absolutely, look at I'd say that the reason why
Speaker 3: I'm still standing is because of the support that i
Speaker 3: have from family, friends, Lana. There's not a minute that
Speaker 3: of the day that there's not someone here or that
Speaker 3: I can't call on. Every day is a roller coaster.
Speaker 3: I feel like I'm just existing and not living.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's I see and you reference Lana and not
Speaker 1: just what Lana's doing, but a lot of friends. It
Speaker 1: looks like they've formed a circle around you and very
Speaker 1: protective of you.
Speaker 3: Absolutely.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, it's nice, isn't it.
Speaker 3: Oh, I don't know. Like, as I said, look for
Speaker 3: my family, it's extremely hard because I'm not sure if
Speaker 3: you're aware that we lost my dad two weeks after Audrey,
Speaker 3: and my dad was ninety two, so my mum's not
Speaker 3: aware that they were aware that she passed away. But
Speaker 3: because of the delay and them telling me that it
Speaker 3: was a misadventure, dad had passed in that time, and
Speaker 3: then we found out that she'd had been murdered, and
Speaker 3: mums in her nineties as well, so she was very fragile.
Speaker 3: So I decided that this was something that I didn't
Speaker 3: want to address with my mum. So it's been extremely
Speaker 3: hard promoting everything in regards to getting the support from
Speaker 3: the community and everyone to find some justice in move
Speaker 3: forward in regards to what's happened here.
Speaker 1: When we talk about justice, and you and I have
Speaker 1: had long conversations about how I could offer some advice
Speaker 1: or point you in the direction, and when you first
Speaker 1: spoke to me, and when I first saw the story
Speaker 1: of Audrey, I had concerns from the start when it
Speaker 1: started hitting the media, but a little bit later than
Speaker 1: probably what it should have been.
Speaker 3: It's just appalling, it's appalling. And that were the words
Speaker 3: exactly what I said to Yasmine Yates when.
Speaker 1: She turned up the police minister.
Speaker 3: Yes, when she turned up at the ritual. Once we've known,
Speaker 3: once we've been informed what had happened to Audrey, and
Speaker 3: I'd had an interview with sixty minutes that day, and
Speaker 3: when I was interviewed, and when I spoke to Yasmine
Speaker 3: and she said, look, she wasn't aware and that she
Speaker 3: was her condolence, and I said to her, look, I'm
Speaker 3: not here to get the police on the on the
Speaker 3: on the back fold, you know I'm here. I want support,
Speaker 3: I want just so, I want to find out the story.
Speaker 3: I want justice for Audrey, my daughter was more than this.
Speaker 3: I said to her then, look that I'd been interviewed
Speaker 3: by sixty minutes, and that at any of that time
Speaker 3: that I was interviewed, I'd rubbished anybody. I just needed
Speaker 3: the story to be out for us to be able
Speaker 3: to move forward and get some answers. I'd explained to
Speaker 3: her that I hadn't done anything wrong in regards to
Speaker 3: the police, but I did say to her that it
Speaker 3: was appalling, and she said to me straight away, can
Speaker 3: we organize a meeting, which we did.
Speaker 1: We're going to break down in the podcast what exactly
Speaker 1: happened and what you had to do to make sure
Speaker 1: that the police were doing their job. I think is
Speaker 1: probably an appropriate way to say that before you agreed
Speaker 1: to do the podcast, you said you want to get answers,
Speaker 1: you want to find out what's happened and why things
Speaker 1: have happened. You also said to me that I will
Speaker 1: do a podcast with you if you challenge me. You said,
Speaker 1: I will do a podcast with you if you're honest
Speaker 1: in your opinion about whether the police had done the
Speaker 1: right thing or not done the right thing. So that's
Speaker 1: the premise of what this podcast is going to be about.
Speaker 1: We want to hear your story. We want to talk
Speaker 1: about Audrey, because audrey life should not be forgotten. And
Speaker 1: I just see your reference what happened at Terrrigle, the
Speaker 1: amount of people that turned up, and I get the
Speaker 1: sense that Audrey touched the lot of lives.
Speaker 3: Look, she was always she is an amazing child, and
Speaker 3: she's always been an amazing child. She was strong, she
Speaker 3: was independent, she was driven, she was a go getter,
Speaker 3: she was happy, she she loved life. She was a
Speaker 3: beautiful human being. She you know, what she had achieved
Speaker 3: in nineteen years is just and her friends, we're just
Speaker 3: everyone's just blown away. Like everyone's it's still unfolding. People
Speaker 3: are constantly always learning. And myself of all her achievements,
Speaker 3: all the letters that she sent out to people in
Speaker 3: you know, condolence and helping and supporting and loving, and
Speaker 3: you know, just the other day, I ran into a
Speaker 3: lady from Central Coast Sports College that said she didn't
Speaker 3: know Audrey, but she was going into the office to
Speaker 3: speak to one of the ladies, and when she opened
Speaker 3: the diary there's a letter from Audrey. You know, there's
Speaker 3: all there's signs everywhere. There's signs everywhere and every day. UTS.
Speaker 3: She had such an impact that they've come back to me.
Speaker 3: They've sent me a letter saying that they're going to
Speaker 3: honor her a Bachelor of Business and Economics and that
Speaker 3: she achieved so highly and she was such a beautiful
Speaker 3: student that they're honoring her with a degree on the
Speaker 3: fifth of November at UTS and her father and I
Speaker 3: and friends who are welcome to come along. And that's
Speaker 3: just one you know, from the outside reaching in and
Speaker 3: yet you know, these are the people that keep me standing.
Speaker 3: Like you know, the Sharks who she played for Interegle,
Speaker 3: they've got a shield called Audrey Griffin that they're using
Speaker 3: as a best player that they're going to give continuously
Speaker 3: every year. So she's got this legacy everywhere.
Speaker 1: Well she and the sense that I get she really
Speaker 1: she lived life like the Sharks that was playing rugby
Speaker 1: league and she.
Speaker 3: Played for UTS the Bats.
Speaker 1: You were at AFL doing triathlons.
Speaker 3: She did to one athlete in Newcastle. Then she did.
Speaker 3: That was our last trip together four weeks prior to
Speaker 3: her passing, where she asked me to come along to
Speaker 3: New Zealand to do an iman, which she didn't train for.
Speaker 3: She's just an amazing When she put her head to something,
Speaker 3: she just did it. You know, as on arrival, you know,
Speaker 3: we turn up there and she's got blisters all over
Speaker 3: her feet just before she has to do a twenty
Speaker 3: one kilometer run, one point nine swim, and a ninety
Speaker 3: k bike ride. And then we had just an amazing
Speaker 3: trip where she opened up and said to me that
Speaker 3: you know how she just loved Trevor and I so much,
Speaker 3: and how grateful parents we were, and how lucky she
Speaker 3: was that she had us as parents, and I was
Speaker 3: so lucky to that time with her. And then she
Speaker 3: arrives home and the next day she flies out to
Speaker 3: Japan to go skiing with one of her UNI friends
Speaker 3: for two weeks and then comes home that day. And
Speaker 3: that was the day after that. She got up in
Speaker 3: the morning and she said, Mom, I'm going to the
Speaker 3: Central Coast And I said, no, you're not. We're organizing
Speaker 3: this massive party for you. Because she was going into
Speaker 3: the Navy on the seventh of April, and I said, no,
Speaker 3: you need to organize. You've organized this seven man ban
Speaker 3: and I need to know who's coming. And she said, no,
Speaker 3: I've got to go up the coast and see my friends,
Speaker 3: because she'd been away for four weeks, and I'd actually
Speaker 3: said to her, look, you know your father's, your grandfather
Speaker 3: sick in hospital. He's out in Blacktown. You need to
Speaker 3: put family first. Anyway, she walked out the door as
Speaker 3: teenagers do and didn't say much. And later that afternoon
Speaker 3: I get a photo of her with my dad and
Speaker 3: then a photo where she'd gone and taken my mum,
Speaker 3: who's ninety years of age, out for lunch and took
Speaker 3: a photo. And my last words were to her was
Speaker 3: I love you, my babe. You do me proud. And
Speaker 3: then she come to the Central Coasts, caught up with friends.
Speaker 3: Didn't plan on having a night, she just wanted to
Speaker 3: catch up. But then obviously been away for four weeks
Speaker 3: living in Sydney, she hadn't seen everybody and was excited
Speaker 3: and started off at the Terrygool Hotel with her friends
Speaker 3: and then decided to go to the Gospel Hotel.
Speaker 1: I'd see your face light up when you're talking about
Speaker 1: those memories, like what.
Speaker 3: Child at nineteen has achieved. You know, she's done Europe
Speaker 3: when she graduated from YU twelve a couple of weeks later,
Speaker 3: jumped on a plane by herself and went to Thailand
Speaker 3: and did a tracking for two weeks by herself. You know,
Speaker 3: she had a car list. She learned how to drive
Speaker 3: in a tip up truck, her manual tip up truck.
Speaker 3: She learned how to drive with me in a v
Speaker 3: doub multi van driving back and forward to Byron because
Speaker 3: that was our thing. We used to do a lot
Speaker 3: of trips to Byron. She had a motorbike license, she
Speaker 3: had a jet ski license, she had a you know,
Speaker 3: she had all these license. I do markets, or I
Speaker 3: was doing markets, and I was at Bondai and she's
Speaker 3: living with a dad at the time, while she was
Speaker 3: at uts and I'm sitting at Bondau markets and here
Speaker 3: comes Audrey with her leather jacket and her helmet in
Speaker 3: her hands, walking towards me, and I went, oh, my goodness,
Speaker 3: you didn't just ride that bike which is too big
Speaker 3: for her, all the way from Mattreville to Bondai by yourself.
Speaker 3: And she was just like yeah, well, like.
Speaker 1: She sounds like a force of nature.
Speaker 3: Oh diving, you know, the Mermaids, the Mermaids, the Mermaids
Speaker 3: our swimming group. You know how many arguments I had
Speaker 3: with her in regards to always taking off from the
Speaker 3: crowd and chasing this and chasing that and dive down
Speaker 3: to the sharks.
Speaker 1: Like she wasn't this is in the ocean swimming, absolutely.
Speaker 3: Oh absolutely, even when we you know, this is at
Speaker 3: Terry gall with the Mermaids, we'd swim around to the
Speaker 3: you know, the point and around to the haven and
Speaker 3: you know, always swimming off trying to chase the little sharks.
Speaker 3: And you know, even when we moved, I moved to
Speaker 3: Cronulla and I started swimming. We both swam ocean swim
Speaker 3: and we were swimming around Shark Island and you know,
Speaker 3: they're all going, Audrey coming to the group, coming to
Speaker 3: the group. Off she goes because she sees a seal.
Speaker 3: You know, like she was just fearless, like no fear
Speaker 3: but sensible, you know what I mean. Fearless but sensible.
Speaker 3: But she had this personality also that people always thought
Speaker 3: like when she was out, they always thought she'd had
Speaker 3: a drink because they'd say, oh, dds is out, because
Speaker 3: she'd come into this whole personality and light up the room.
Speaker 3: She wasn't a drinker, She wasn't a drinker. She just
Speaker 3: loved life and she loved people. She just love people.
Speaker 3: And that was that night, and that which has ruined
Speaker 3: our lives. The story is so long, and the whole
Speaker 3: thing is so appalling, and I just don't understand how someone,
Speaker 3: anyone could treat any human being. And I feel that
Speaker 3: society is just ticking boxes and moving through life without
Speaker 3: a heart. And Audrey will never be a number, She
Speaker 3: will never be just that child. She is my child
Speaker 3: and Trevor's child, and I am going to fight all
Speaker 3: the way for justice.
Speaker 1: I understand in the conversations we've had you've made that
Speaker 1: very clear. And I made some notes from the conversations
Speaker 1: that we've had in the anticipation that we might be
Speaker 1: sitting down like this and to keep clarity on it.
Speaker 1: These were the type of things that you said about
Speaker 1: the answers that you want and what you want from doing,
Speaker 1: whether it's a platform like a podcast or telling your story,
Speaker 1: that you want the full facts to come out. I
Speaker 1: want to know why murdering scumbag Adrian Torrans wasn't in custody.
Speaker 1: And I want to know why Audrey's murder was treated
Speaker 1: as misadventure. I want to know why I had to
Speaker 1: push the police. I want to know why police took
Speaker 1: so long to arrest Torrans when he's clearly a violent
Speaker 1: man and had consistently breached AVA orders relating to his
Speaker 1: former wife. And the other thing that you said to me,
Speaker 1: you just don't know what to believe anymore. You've been
Speaker 1: dragged into this world that you don't understand. I take
Speaker 1: it you wouldn't have had experience with police or criminal
Speaker 1: investigations of this nature, the courts, all these things. And
Speaker 1: you asked me some questions when we're talking, it just
Speaker 1: seemed so naive, Like I thought everyone knew a coronial
Speaker 1: inquest is about the what abo. But that wasn't your world.
Speaker 1: That wasn't Audrey.
Speaker 3: Absolutely not like and I say it every day, even
Speaker 3: til all the loved ones around me. You know, the
Speaker 3: support I have, The support I have is so solid
Speaker 3: and I and something that I repeat over and over,
Speaker 3: you have no idea. You have no idea that the
Speaker 3: things how I feel that triggered me, and and just
Speaker 3: everything about the story is just appalling to the fact
Speaker 3: is you know everything about it, even to the coroner report,
Speaker 3: to me going when Trevor and I had to go
Speaker 3: and identify it or say how goodbye is to Audrey.
Speaker 3: It was just wrong. It was just wrong. I knew.
Speaker 3: I knew when I saw her, and I didn't say
Speaker 3: any think to her father at the time. And I
Speaker 3: drove home and I said to him, how do you feel?
Speaker 3: How did you feel when you saw Audrey? And he
Speaker 3: said she wasn't at peace. I said, Trevor, I looked.
Speaker 3: I looked at her. I pulled the sheets down, and
Speaker 3: I saw things that no mother should have to see.
Speaker 3: And I was also told before I walked in there
Speaker 3: when I asked, how does my beautiful girl look? Does
Speaker 3: her hair look beautiful? Does it? And she said, we've
Speaker 3: cleaned rupt she looks beautiful. I walked in there. She
Speaker 3: had makeup under her eyes, her hair was platted, and
Speaker 3: it was full of mud and tweaks. I'm not going
Speaker 3: to go any further because no one needs to know that.
Speaker 3: That's what triggered me, and I knew, and I went
Speaker 3: straight back to the scene and I looked across the
Speaker 3: lake and I saw a house and I rang and
Speaker 3: I said, have you spoken to the house across the road?
Speaker 3: He said, I'll get back to you. Then weeks later
Speaker 3: of me asking and asking and asking if I can
Speaker 3: see footage that they kept saying it was in Sydney,
Speaker 3: and it was in Sydney. It's in Sydney. And I
Speaker 3: was like, you know, is there cameras the police? There
Speaker 3: must have been taxis, there must have been people going
Speaker 3: past the third day. So I'm I'm at can I
Speaker 3: tell the story from the beginning.
Speaker 1: Let's explain the story from the beginning, because I want
Speaker 1: to provide you with a platform of the concerns you
Speaker 1: had right from the start and how it played out,
Speaker 1: but just to put it in context, explain to people
Speaker 1: what happened on the night Audrey.
Speaker 3: Was so firstly, I just want to say that Audrey
Speaker 3: wasn't intoxicated or have any drugs in the system. That's
Speaker 3: come back, and that's another thing that's traumatized because there
Speaker 3: was things that we needed to do to find out
Speaker 3: those answers, and that was something very hard for me
Speaker 3: to say goodbye to my girl order when we had
Speaker 3: to do those things. And sorry, anyway, so that night,
Speaker 3: that she went out. She only had a couple of drinks.
Speaker 3: And they've told me that there was no way that
Speaker 3: could have happened. She was it couldn't have been a misadventure.
Speaker 3: It couldn't have happened.
Speaker 1: Audrey's gone out on the night and started drinking it.
Speaker 3: Well, she had a couple of drinks. She went to
Speaker 3: the Teregle Hotel, which she wasn't playing because she wasn't
Speaker 3: a drinker, and she said to a friend, Oh, should
Speaker 3: I have a drink? And she said, I'll have a cocktail.
Speaker 3: So I think it was like two or three drinks
Speaker 3: that she had in the whole night. So she had
Speaker 3: a cocktail there and then she had two red bulls
Speaker 3: and Bokkers when she got to Gosford.
Speaker 1: This is Gosford Hotel, Main Street, Yes, and.
Speaker 3: Then she was with friends there and she ran into
Speaker 3: some other friends and they were all going to the
Speaker 3: Gosford Hotel and she said, look, I'm going to go
Speaker 3: there as well, because it was a group of friends
Speaker 3: she wanted to catch up with, which she did, and
Speaker 3: she look once I saw the footage, she looked happy.
Speaker 3: She was happy, and that's what I wanted to see.
Speaker 3: I wanted to see what state of mind she was in.
Speaker 3: So anyway, she left the hotel and she hung out
Speaker 3: for a little while with a friend, and she left
Speaker 3: the hotel and decided to walk to try and get
Speaker 3: a cab because it's very difficult to get a cab
Speaker 3: from the Gosford Hotel. Now, she could have done a shortcut,
Speaker 3: but she's gone the long way along the.
Speaker 1: Waterfront to describe for people, not for me, but the
Speaker 1: shortcut through the suburbs or backstreets of a suburb, whereas
Speaker 1: she stayed on the main she went.
Speaker 3: In the lid up area where I would imagine that
Speaker 3: she's done that to try and get a cab and
Speaker 3: obviously lighting, so she's gone all the way where drifters is,
Speaker 3: all the way around pass East Gosford Passy Eleanora. I'm
Speaker 3: not one hundred percent sure he came from Gosford train
Speaker 3: station and he came up from Surrey Hills. I'm not
Speaker 3: sure what the procedure or what went on there.
Speaker 1: And this is in the early hours of the thirty
Speaker 1: in the morning.
Speaker 3: I think her phone last dropped out at two thirty.
Speaker 2: In the morning.
Speaker 1: Okay, And you're understanding is she was heading into a
Speaker 1: father's place.
Speaker 3: No, she was heading to a girlfriend's place at Green Point.
Speaker 3: So originally the girlfriend that she'd gone out with was
Speaker 3: they were staying at her grandparents interigor which are friends
Speaker 3: of all of ours, their close friends. And then the
Speaker 3: girlfriend wasn't well. She went home and she lives at
Speaker 3: Green's Point. And then Audrey went out with other friends,
Speaker 3: probably only fifteen twenty minutes away from home from where
Speaker 3: she was staying at Grea's Point. Yeah, and then obviously
Speaker 3: she'd phoned one girlfriend, the girlfriend she went to Japan
Speaker 3: with that she'd seen in that night, and had a conversation,
Speaker 3: not to her directly, but phoned her and she didn't
Speaker 3: pick up and left a few messages. Then she rang
Speaker 3: a girlfriend in Japan who she's grown up with since
Speaker 3: she was two, and had a big conversation about her
Speaker 3: childhood and they you know, sent each other photos and
Speaker 3: and then she got off to the phone, got off
Speaker 3: the phone to her and then the phone died at
Speaker 3: two thirty.
Speaker 1: When when did you start to become concerned?
Speaker 3: So, I I wouldn't say I was a helicopter mom,
Speaker 3: but you know, being my only child, you know, she
Speaker 3: was a very strong and independent woman and she really
Speaker 3: wanted to be independent, and so the deal was that
Speaker 3: I've always said, you do me good, you do you
Speaker 3: do yourself justice and do the right thing, You're always rewarded.
Speaker 3: So the fact that she was at university and she
Speaker 3: was striving to make herself a you know, a better
Speaker 3: person and succeed in the world, and I wanted her
Speaker 3: to be strong because I'm an older parent and an
Speaker 3: only child. And I said to her, the deal is,
Speaker 3: I'll pay for your phone, but I have to have
Speaker 3: find my phone at all times so I know where
Speaker 3: you are absolut How we had always good strategies and
Speaker 3: she never complained. She never complained. Everyone else complained about
Speaker 3: me doing it, stalking her, but we were fine with that,
Speaker 3: and she was fine with me paying a bill. And anyway,
Speaker 3: so I wake up as I do before I went
Speaker 3: to bed, and you know, I don't go to a
Speaker 3: bit of lake because I do markets. And I looked
Speaker 3: at the phone and I can see she's out. And
Speaker 3: then I woke up at the cracker dawn and I
Speaker 3: looked at my phone and I saw the location and
Speaker 3: straight away I was alarmed. And I'm an ocean swimmer,
Speaker 3: so I was getting up at every morning to be
Speaker 3: in the ocean by eight o'clock and to take the dog,
Speaker 3: her dog down for a swim at the beach. And
Speaker 3: I was like Cranola, living in Cronulla. And I looked
Speaker 3: at the phone and I laid in bed and I
Speaker 3: sent her a message straight away saying, Audrey, can you
Speaker 3: just let me know when you're home, knowing that she
Speaker 3: wouldn't get it until she woke up, but just something
Speaker 3: to put out there. And I hadn't heard back. And
Speaker 3: I got dressed and I went down to Cronulla Beach
Speaker 3: and I got in the water, and as I was
Speaker 3: getting in, something come over me, and I just didn't
Speaker 3: feel right. I just didn't feel right. So I got
Speaker 3: back in the car and I drove back and I
Speaker 3: started texting and I said to my partner at the time,
Speaker 3: Audrey hasn't got back to me, and a phone's in
Speaker 3: a location. He said, oh, she's probably gone out and
Speaker 3: had fun. She's going in the navy, and I went, yeah,
Speaker 3: And it's funny because usually he's very like minded in
Speaker 3: that way, but he even question went, but it's very
Speaker 3: unusual for all not to get back to you. And
Speaker 3: then I've phoned her father, and then I've sent a
Speaker 3: message to a very good friend of hers who she
Speaker 3: stays with on the coast, that I thought she may
Speaker 3: have gone back there. And I sent a message and said,
Speaker 3: just concerned. I've seen a location on Audrey's phone, and
Speaker 3: she said to me, look, sometimes when your phone dies,
Speaker 3: the location stops at that location. So it kind of
Speaker 3: put a little bit of ease of me. And she
Speaker 3: could have been the phone died or in a cab.
Speaker 3: That's what I thought straight away. She's in a cab,
Speaker 3: the phone's died, she's asleep somewhere. And I but I
Speaker 3: was still concerned, so I said to Jen, would you
Speaker 3: I said, I'm just concerned. Anyway, she phoned me back
Speaker 3: and she said, look, my husband's happy to go down
Speaker 3: there for a drive, just to see if you can
Speaker 3: see a car. And he drove down there, he said,
Speaker 3: the car's not there. You know, she's maybe by this day,
Speaker 3: I spoken to her father and he said, look, I'm
Speaker 3: just going to jump the car and I'm just going
Speaker 3: to go up to the central coast, because he lives
Speaker 3: in Mattrell at the time. And in this time, obviously
Speaker 3: her friends have got one eighty or something the same
Speaker 3: type of thing. You can find locations. Yet they've obviously
Speaker 3: been alarmed but not phoned me. And I'm not sure
Speaker 3: of the timing because it's all a little bit too
Speaker 3: much at the moment. But what my understanding on what
Speaker 3: I can remember is that while all this was going
Speaker 3: on with me, one of the girls who's who she
Speaker 3: was supposed to come back to, had gone to the
Speaker 3: police station and reported her that she hadn't come home.
Speaker 3: And then they phoned me the police and said, would
Speaker 3: you go to the nearest police station and just release
Speaker 3: to say that we can put something out as a
Speaker 3: missing person and a photo. And I'm in the car
Speaker 3: driving to the police station. Time at this stage Trevor's
Speaker 3: gone up north and he said you just stay behind.
Speaker 3: And on the way to the police station at Miranda,
Speaker 3: I get the phone called back from my friend who
Speaker 3: went there in the first place to see if her
Speaker 3: car was there, and her husband had found her bag,
Speaker 3: her hair clip and her sonnies at the location. Firstly,
Speaker 3: she just said have you heard and I said what
Speaker 3: she said, we found her bag. Now I had to
Speaker 3: travel from Cronulla to the Central Coast in this time
Speaker 3: I get there, it's pouring with rain. It's overcast. I
Speaker 3: get there too, ambulance police, Trevor being there, her friend's
Speaker 3: being there also. I've been informed that her friends went
Speaker 3: to the police station and said, what.
Speaker 1: You going to do when they report?
Speaker 3: When they reported it, yeah, what are you going to do?
Speaker 3: So they they went to the site at the creek.
Speaker 3: They went to the location.
Speaker 1: Her girlfriends they went there prior to police going there.
Speaker 3: They went to the police station and reported that she
Speaker 3: was missing. And then they went to the creek where
Speaker 3: two of friends and the grandfather of the young girl
Speaker 3: were walking along the embankment and found Audrey floating up
Speaker 3: so down in the water head down. When I arrived,
Speaker 3: I'm in the ambulance. Police walked up to me and said,
Speaker 3: I'm so sorry for your condolence, and I said, what
Speaker 3: do you mean. They've just asked Trevor, her father, to
Speaker 3: go down to the lake to identify because they were
Speaker 3: bringing her in. She hasn't been identified. What are you
Speaker 3: saying to me? And the ambulance who were amazing, pulled
Speaker 3: me away and took him away. He walked then down
Speaker 3: to the water side, stood next to Trevor, her father,
Speaker 3: and was making jokes about the fieries. Now that's the beginning.
Speaker 1: What you're saying that doesn't paint a good picture. I
Speaker 1: suppose as a way of saying.
Speaker 3: It, that was the beginning.
Speaker 1: And then when you say the beginning, the.
Speaker 3: Beginning of this, yeah, the hole. So then obviously they
Speaker 3: identify Audrey. Trevor identifies Audrey. I go to Terragor, to
Speaker 3: the Crown Plaza where I'm staying, and her father. I
Speaker 3: can't remember what he went. He may have gone home,
Speaker 3: he may stayed. Honestly, these pieces are really hard for
Speaker 3: me to remember. Trevor and I are separated, but very
Speaker 3: close and have a lovely relationship in regards to our daughter.
Speaker 3: He's always been a part of her life and she
Speaker 3: was living between me and him. At the time, I
Speaker 3: was staying at the Crown Hotel, where I had amazing
Speaker 3: support again once again through the community and the girls
Speaker 3: that I swim with that were looking after me twenty
Speaker 3: four hours a day, and I'd had mentioned is there
Speaker 3: anything in the paper or in the media, and they replied.
Speaker 1: No, Okay, Just so I understand that you've described what's
Speaker 1: happened at the scene where Audrey's body has been found,
Speaker 1: and that Trevor, her father identified the body. You've turned
Speaker 1: up and you'll explain what happened there. What were you
Speaker 1: told by the police, what what would.
Speaker 3: Happen at that stage? Nothing? And they did say to us,
Speaker 3: we will be putting you in contact with support tomorrow.
Speaker 3: We will have someone phone you, which never happened. Never happened.
Speaker 3: We've been on this journey alone.
Speaker 1: Going from that scene at the location and then you've
Speaker 1: come up from Sydney, so you're staying that Terry or
Speaker 1: you've booked the into the Crown there. When was the
Speaker 1: next contact with police? Did you reach out to them
Speaker 1: or did that?
Speaker 3: We've been constantly like constantly, the girls on my behalf.
Speaker 3: I gave Permi obviously in the state of mind that
Speaker 3: I was in and look to be honest, I have
Speaker 3: been quite strong and direct and she's my daughter. I
Speaker 3: want to answers, and I wasn't yeah yeah, and I
Speaker 3: was asking the questions and the girls were treating very
Speaker 3: lightly but speaking in the background. So I signed a
Speaker 3: couple of girls to work with me and to work
Speaker 3: with the police so that they could give me the
Speaker 3: wordings that they use because obviously they don't make As
Speaker 3: we were saying earlier, it's a whole new vocabulary for
Speaker 3: me again, correct, And we were questioning and when I
Speaker 3: asked the question, had it been in the media, they said, no,
Speaker 3: it's like get me out of bed, get me down there.
Speaker 1: Okay, So how this is what The day after I.
Speaker 3: Think we were thinking as about two or three.
Speaker 1: Days, had you viewed Audrey's body? By that stage, okay,
Speaker 1: two or three days? There was nothing in the media
Speaker 1: about it. Did the police suggest to you an investigation
Speaker 1: was going on? Like I'm trying to get the story
Speaker 1: from sides.
Speaker 3: So I went down there straight away and said to
Speaker 3: the police Gospel the police station, and I said, why
Speaker 3: why isn't anything in the media. I've just looked at
Speaker 3: something on social media straight away and some guy nearly
Speaker 3: drowned in the haven that's saved and he's in the paper.
Speaker 3: Yet my daughter's been found and nothing. And he replied
Speaker 3: to me, we don't want trolls.
Speaker 1: Okay. You asked or demanded of me that if you
Speaker 1: do the podcast, offer opinions on if the police maybe
Speaker 1: it could have been done differently or a different approach.
Speaker 1: What we've got here. And I've been to the location,
Speaker 1: so I've made an assessment looking through from a formal
Speaker 1: homicide detective's viewpoint, nineteen year old girl found deceased in
Speaker 1: those circumstances early hours of the morning, assumptions could be
Speaker 1: made its misadventure, but I think a stronger assumption should
Speaker 1: be a suspicious suspicion attached to what's happened here. I
Speaker 1: would see the media using the media at that early
Speaker 1: stages of the investigation. Sometimes there's legitimate reasons why it's
Speaker 1: not released in the media. Sometimes there's strategies in place.
Speaker 1: I don't know the full details of the investigation, but
Speaker 1: given the fact that it appears on face value that
Speaker 1: they were treating it as death by misadventure, there still
Speaker 1: needs to be a coronial in a coronial brief of
Speaker 1: evidence prepared, and I think it would be more than
Speaker 1: appropriate to make an appeal to the public and put
Speaker 1: it out there. Did anyone see this person walking along? Like?
Speaker 1: It's not like? Did anyone see this person in the
Speaker 1: middle of Sydney in the middle of the correct This
Speaker 1: is a girl walking home late at night, in the
Speaker 1: early hours of a morning, like an appeal? Did anyone
Speaker 1: have any knowledge of this person? And perhaps put a
Speaker 1: photo out so we have. You've described a situation where
Speaker 1: Audrey's body was found in air and the creek, and
Speaker 1: that was on the Sunday afternoon. My readings in the
Speaker 1: in newspaper reports vary from three point forty five to
Speaker 1: five pm on the Sunday as a rough rough time. Correct,
Speaker 1: there was nothing in the media. Your process in dealing
Speaker 1: with everything you possibly can. Two or three days later,
Speaker 1: you're saying, well, you're surprised there's nothing in the media
Speaker 1: about this. You've gone to the police and the person
Speaker 1: that you spoke to told you when you asked the question,
Speaker 1: why wasn't it released in the media, You're saying that
Speaker 1: that person said, because we don't want trials.
Speaker 3: Correct the whole everyone, not one person, not one person
Speaker 3: come to me and said they believed that it was
Speaker 3: a miss event. Everyone was like, no way, Like everyone,
Speaker 3: there's not one person that's come forward. And when it
Speaker 3: could have been a misadventure.
Speaker 1: When was the narrative that when did you have a
Speaker 1: direct conversation with the police that we're telling you that
Speaker 1: they think it's misadventures all along?
Speaker 3: Explained that look straight away, it was like it's a misadventure.
Speaker 3: Even when he said that about the missut. Then he said, well,
Speaker 3: do you want something in the media, and I said yes.
Speaker 3: Then they release something in the paper, but only the
Speaker 3: story without the photo. So then I bring him back
Speaker 3: again and I was like, where's the photo. He goes, oh,
Speaker 3: you want a photo, and I'm like, yes, I want
Speaker 3: a photo. The whole time it's a misadventure. So then
Speaker 3: we get the time comes to go and see Audrey.
Speaker 3: We see Audrey and I know, and I go straight
Speaker 3: back to him. And that's when I went to the
Speaker 3: creek and I looked across the road and I asked
Speaker 3: the question, has anyone spoken to the house across the road.
Speaker 3: He replied, I don't know. I'll get back to you.
Speaker 3: I said to him, this is not a misadventure. The
Speaker 3: footage that they released three weeks later, they picked that
Speaker 3: up on the twenty fourth, and that was three hour
Speaker 3: footage of him walking behind her at two thirty in
Speaker 3: the morning. And the reply was when I asked why
Speaker 3: he was twenty meters behind at two thirty.
Speaker 1: In the morning. Okay, but and that is after your
Speaker 1: initiated them looking through the footage, correct, I suppose the
Speaker 1: way that I would approach this, And I'm choosing my
Speaker 1: words carefully here because I don't want to come across
Speaker 1: as someone there again going I would have done this,
Speaker 1: I would have done that. So what I'm saying here,
Speaker 1: and you know we're here in your version of it,
Speaker 1: what I'm saying here in circumstances, and I was in
Speaker 1: homicide for over twenty years, so I'm not talking just
Speaker 1: from lack of experience. So I've got the experience that
Speaker 1: a situation like that, what should happen is that local police,
Speaker 1: and it might be uniform police, called their first up.
Speaker 1: They would then call local detectives. Local detectives would notify homicide.
Speaker 1: Homicide would be formally in charge of that investigation, and
Speaker 1: that's technically how it goes. So that's sort of like
Speaker 1: a standard operating procedures. And I'm not talking out of
Speaker 1: school here, that makes sense. And it was bored in
Speaker 1: that way because there were problems where suspicious deaths were
Speaker 1: treated as misadventures or accidents and evidence was lost. You've
Speaker 1: got a nineteen year old girl, fit, healthy, no indication
Speaker 1: of self harm, so that's it. Excited, So you're working
Speaker 1: on the assumption you've got a young girl. For all
Speaker 1: intents and purposes, was having a night out with friends
Speaker 1: and was trying to make her way home. And I
Speaker 1: do understand the central case. It's hard to get transport
Speaker 1: late at night. I know those situations, trying to get
Speaker 1: home late at night, walking along the street, trying to
Speaker 1: get a taxi, trying to trying to find the way home.
Speaker 1: So that in itself, there's no oh, there's some reckless
Speaker 1: recklessness there. She's walking along where Audrey's body was found.
Speaker 1: For people don't understand the Central coast. You've got a
Speaker 1: very busy road and you've got a pathway. The pathway
Speaker 1: is in between the creek. We call it the creek,
Speaker 1: it's closer to it being a river. A river, the
Speaker 1: pathway and then this busy street. It's not like she's
Speaker 1: walking along a cliff face and accidentally falling into the water.
Speaker 1: It's a flat, flat surface, a nice wide footpath. She's found.
Speaker 1: Her phone stops at two forty five, two.
Speaker 3: Thirty somewhere around there. Yeah, I'm not.
Speaker 1: Sure exactly her belongings are spread around. It would interest
Speaker 1: me how a belonging to it if she gives low tide,
Speaker 1: if she just tripped and fell into the water. One
Speaker 1: with assumed she'd have all the belongings there, but her
Speaker 1: belonging to it spread around. There's a suspicion attached there.
Speaker 1: Quite often with investigations, you don't know the cause of
Speaker 1: death until the post more than has been conducted. When
Speaker 1: the post more than was conducted, it's my understanding this
Speaker 1: is jumping head a little bit that there was DNA,
Speaker 1: the offender's DNA found under a fingerprints under her fingernails.
Speaker 3: Left finger scratched him on the face.
Speaker 1: That is a telltale sign that adds to the suspicion.
Speaker 1: So what is confused. I'm telling you what we will
Speaker 1: do as a homicide detective. We appoint the liaison office
Speaker 1: of the family. The families informed that, look, we don't
Speaker 1: know what's happened to your daughter at this stage, that
Speaker 1: would be the appropriate response, but we're investigating it. When
Speaker 1: we know something, we will pass that information on. So
Speaker 1: that's how I'm saying. I was taught to run an
Speaker 1: investigation of that nature. And yeah, the way I would
Speaker 1: like to think i'd run that investigation, you'd also put
Speaker 1: something out in the media, and I can think of
Speaker 1: the media release straight away. Please have concerns for the
Speaker 1: following the death of a nineteen year old girl that
Speaker 1: was found deceased in Aerona Creek. Anyone that saw this
Speaker 1: person last known sightings was at Gosford Hotel travel along there.
Speaker 1: Anyone with any information please provide that to police that's
Speaker 1: using the media to gather evidence. I would also have
Speaker 1: you talk about the house opposite the creek. I would
Speaker 1: also have a canvas conducted looking for witnesses, maybe eyewitnesses
Speaker 1: or someone that's heard something I think in the area
Speaker 1: that she's walked. You would also track between Gosford Hotel
Speaker 1: to where Audrey's body was found. That would be I'm
Speaker 1: guessing here, but six maybe five or six kilometers thereabouts,
Speaker 1: passes a lot of businesses, some of which might have
Speaker 1: even been open in the early hours of the night,
Speaker 1: So you canvas san and you'd also look for CCTV
Speaker 1: footage because the path that it appears that she's taken
Speaker 1: goes past the licensed premises which would have CCTV footage.
Speaker 3: Which they did.
Speaker 1: You'd be doing all that, all that before you came
Speaker 1: to the assumption that was by misadventure. What happened here?
Speaker 1: Was this a robbery? If all her property that she
Speaker 1: had at the time was not with her. Where her
Speaker 1: body was found, one would assume, well, there's been interference,
Speaker 1: they're possibly interference, So until you found all her property,
Speaker 1: including the phone, you'd be treating that there's potently suspicious
Speaker 1: as well. So, Kathleen, I'm sitting here only because I
Speaker 1: gave you the undertaking that if you agreed to do
Speaker 1: the podcast, I'll say, I'll tell you exactly what I
Speaker 1: think should happen in a homicide investigation, which should have
Speaker 1: burned because what I was taught as a young detective,
Speaker 1: and I'd like to think I passed this on that
Speaker 1: when you get called to a death in unnatural courses
Speaker 1: or causes or slightly suspicious, you treat it as a
Speaker 1: homicide until you can prove otherwise. So that's what I
Speaker 1: believe is the benchmark on how this matter, Audrey's death
Speaker 1: should have burn investigated. That's just to put it in context.
Speaker 1: What you're about to tell us, what you went through, and.
Speaker 3: It's exactly what I would have thought how it should
Speaker 3: have been. Three day I'm ringing, going where's her phone,
Speaker 3: where's her phone, where's this? Where's that? I want it
Speaker 3: back even to the fact they took the car and
Speaker 3: when I had to pick the car up her computers
Speaker 3: in the At this stage they hadn't found a phone.
Speaker 3: And when I picked her car up from is it crime?
Speaker 1: What is it?
Speaker 3: I opened the boot and her computers in the back
Speaker 3: of the car and I ring here the detective and say,
Speaker 3: why is her computer in the car? Why haven't you
Speaker 3: looked at It's not irrelevant to the case.
Speaker 1: Okay.
Speaker 3: Then my beautiful Lana goes down I think on the Wednesday,
Speaker 3: to show respect she's sitting there in low tide. Walks
Speaker 3: up to the location and there's Audrey's phone sitting in
Speaker 3: the mud, exactly in the locations of where the bag,
Speaker 3: the hair clip and her sonnies. So Lana calls the
Speaker 3: police station and says, I'm at the location. Are the
Speaker 3: girls deceased? I think I found a phone? He replied,
Speaker 3: can you bring it in? She then said, I don't
Speaker 3: think you understand I'm at the scene with the young girl.
Speaker 3: He said, well, how do you know it's hers? So
Speaker 3: by this stage, she said in the background, someone else
Speaker 3: jumped in and took the phone. Now she found the
Speaker 3: phone in low tide. They'd been telling me for three
Speaker 3: days that they've been scousing the area. Did you go
Speaker 3: down in low tide. No, because we had divers coming
Speaker 3: on Wednesday afternoon, No one went down in low tide
Speaker 3: where they found her bag. Originally that's where the phone
Speaker 3: was sitting. They also they also so a week later.
Speaker 3: Audrey's life was taken. On the Sunday. The following Friday,
Speaker 3: another close girlfriend that we swim with was driving to
Speaker 3: Sydney at five am in the morning. Driving past the location,
Speaker 3: she sees a man in the area with the white
Speaker 3: shorts and the T shirt and the hat with a
Speaker 3: stick poking through the grass. So she rings crime and
Speaker 3: leaves a message saying I'm at the sea. Da da
Speaker 3: da da daw. She goes on with her work and
Speaker 3: obviously in three and a half three bit weeks and
Speaker 3: we're all working on this because no one had actually
Speaker 3: seen what.
Speaker 1: He looked like.
Speaker 3: At this stage, I'm demanding to see the footage. They're
Speaker 3: telling me it's in Sydney, and I'm like, I've got
Speaker 3: to come in. He says, like, you can come in.
Speaker 3: So I go in and I said, I want to
Speaker 3: see all footage. Now, I've got an hour before I
Speaker 3: go in there to see the footage. And I'm sitting
Speaker 3: at the creek with Audrey down at the creek and
Speaker 3: I'm looking across and I'm like, you know what, I'm
Speaker 3: going to go to door knock, and I'm going to
Speaker 3: go to the VP, I'm going to go to the brewery.
Speaker 3: I'm going to go to all those places. I'm going
Speaker 3: to go the main house. When you look across said
Speaker 3: they haven't had anyone.
Speaker 1: That wasn't canvas.
Speaker 3: It was canvas. So they originally so when we brought
Speaker 3: it to attention and that we end up having an
Speaker 3: interview with police, they informed us that they did scals,
Speaker 3: but they left business cards in their doors.
Speaker 1: Okay, it's a couple of things. Just break down a
Speaker 1: couple of things. If we just go back to the
Speaker 1: phone for a moment. Did they come they told Lana
Speaker 1: just to bring the phone in. Did they actually send
Speaker 1: police down and take photographs and in siture and preserve
Speaker 1: it properly? Okay, Well, that's that's good to know that
Speaker 1: with the canvas of a place, you're not canvassing a
Speaker 1: place by leaving a business carden. What a lot of
Speaker 1: people And again, I can only bring back to practices
Speaker 1: that I was taught that a canvas is complete when
Speaker 1: everyone's being spoken to, like not just leaving, leaving a
Speaker 1: card and the door, like people look at it, say
Speaker 1: what going to those businesses? And this is all three
Speaker 1: weeks after.
Speaker 3: Two to three weeks, I would say.
Speaker 1: So at this point in time, are you of the
Speaker 1: belief that police are just treating this as misadventure? Of course,
Speaker 1: were you actually told that we.
Speaker 3: All along, all along to the fact that I'm like,
Speaker 3: it is not like when I saw Audrey. I knew,
Speaker 3: not because I'm a crazy woman just going. I knew I.
Speaker 1: Looked not just marks the face.
Speaker 3: More than that you knew. I saw her hands. I
Speaker 3: saw her hands and straightway I knew what she was
Speaker 3: doing crawling. I'm like that full of mud.
Speaker 1: That's what you saw.
Speaker 3: I picked up dirty full of mud. And I went
Speaker 3: back to him and I said, this is not a
Speaker 3: bit of adventure, Kathleen.
Speaker 1: It is.
Speaker 3: It is even to the fact.
Speaker 1: Where so you actually had that conversation.
Speaker 3: Many many, many many times. I've got witnesses I had.
Speaker 3: I brought people with me the whole time, Lana, I
Speaker 3: brought all the girls with me, so I had back
Speaker 3: up and support all the time.
Speaker 1: And was there any softening from police?
Speaker 3: Did they never there was nothing. It was always silence.
Speaker 3: It was very silent. Whenever I adjusted anything or said anything,
Speaker 3: it was just Yeah. The two who I won't shame
Speaker 3: their names, that just sat there and I said, tell me,
Speaker 3: do you have children? He said, yes, How would you
Speaker 3: feel this happened? He's a misadventure, I understand, but it's
Speaker 3: a misadventure. It's not a misadventure. This is not a misadventure.
Speaker 3: And to the point when I asked, when I went
Speaker 3: door knocking, and then I went in to see the
Speaker 3: footage and I walked in and I said to him,
Speaker 3: so you told me that you've gone daughter at all?
Speaker 3: He said yes. I said, because I've got the phone numbers,
Speaker 3: and shall I get them out now at ring them?
Speaker 3: Because I've just come from their houses and nobody's had
Speaker 3: any contact.
Speaker 1: Had you asked whether homicide's involved at this way?
Speaker 3: I didn't even know those words.
Speaker 1: Okay, So in the world that you're not familial, not familiar.
Speaker 3: With that's the thing too. No support in understanding or
Speaker 3: understanding the procedure, the support nothing.
Speaker 1: Why And I'm offering you just asking for your opinion
Speaker 1: opinion here, But why do you think there was so
Speaker 1: much resistance from the police.
Speaker 3: When you're talking to them, I'll tell you straight away,
Speaker 3: they thought I'd go in there. This is my feel
Speaker 3: they thought when I'd go and see Audrey. I don't
Speaker 3: think that they even tried to cleaner up. I think
Speaker 3: they just put it straight down. I feel they just
Speaker 3: if I'd walked in there and looked at Audrey and said,
Speaker 3: Michael eyes, that would have been the end.
Speaker 1: When we continue on and talk about it, it certainly
Speaker 1: appears the way that it was heading now. I'm assuming
Speaker 1: here because I don't know the full details. But if
Speaker 1: they're telling the mother who's continually coming to the police
Speaker 1: station and saying, have you done this? Have you done that,
Speaker 1: it's misadventure. And that's what you're saying. Correct me if
Speaker 1: I'm wrong. They're telling you on numerous occasions, this is misadventure.
Speaker 1: Unless you kept pushing very well, could have just been
Speaker 1: written off as a misadventure.
Speaker 3: Absolutely