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Speaker 1: The public has had a long held fascination with detectives.

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Speaker 2: Detective see a side of life.

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Speaker 1: The average person is never exposed her I spent thirty

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Speaker 1: four years as a cop. For twenty five of those

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Speaker 1: years I was catching killers. That's what I did for

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Speaker 1: a living. I was a homicide detective. I'm no longer

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Speaker 1: just interviewing bad guys. Instead, I'm taking the public into

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Speaker 1: the world in which I operated. The guests I talk

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Speaker 1: to each week have amazing stories from all sides of

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Speaker 1: the law. The interviews are raw and honest, just like

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Speaker 1: the people I talk to. Some of the content and

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Speaker 1: language might be confronting. That's because no one who comes

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Speaker 1: into contact with crime is left unchanged. Join me now,

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Speaker 1: as I take you into this world. We're doing something

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Speaker 1: a little different. This week, I was contacted by Kathleen Kirby.

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Speaker 1: Kathleen is the mother of Audrey Griffin, a nine erene

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Speaker 1: year old girl who was murdered on the central coast

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Speaker 1: of New South Wales by Adrian Torrance on the third

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Speaker 1: of March. Earlier this year, Audrey had been out celebrating

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Speaker 1: her exciting new career news with friends, and she had

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Speaker 1: a whole life ahead of her, but that same night,

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Speaker 1: Torrence was out on bail facing numerous unrelated domestic violence charges.

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Speaker 1: He was a complete stranger to Audrey. For this episode,

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Speaker 1: we've traveled up to Gosford, which is about now north

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Speaker 1: of Sydney, to take a deeper look at Audrey's case

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Speaker 1: and talk to Audrey's mother, Kathleen. I'm standing out the

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Speaker 1: front of Gossip Hotel. This is in the main street

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Speaker 1: of Gosford. This was where Audrey Griffin was last seen alive.

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Speaker 1: It was about two am on Sunday morning, the twenty

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Speaker 1: third of March twenty twenty five. She was going from

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Speaker 1: this location to stay at a friend's place. It was

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Speaker 1: about five to six kilometers away, but she never made it.

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Speaker 1: From an investigating point of view, this is a crucial location.

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Speaker 1: It was the last time that Audrey's friends saw her alive.

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Speaker 1: She's found deceased approximately fourteen hours later. As you can see,

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of CCTV cameras around here. This is

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Speaker 1: not unusual for a licensed premises and this would be

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Speaker 1: a starting point for a police investigation into finding out

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Speaker 1: what happened to Audrey Griffin. It is our understanding she

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Speaker 1: was trying to get home to stay at a friend's place

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Speaker 1: at the green Point, which is probably at I guess

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Speaker 1: eight kilometers from this location. Like a lot of people

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Speaker 1: that have been out late at night on the Central Coast,

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Speaker 1: it's always difficult to get home. Taxis are hard to

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Speaker 1: come by, ubers are hard to come by. Invariably people

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Speaker 1: start walking along the mainstream and looking for a taxi.

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Speaker 1: It's believed by Audrey's friends that's what she was doing

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Speaker 1: and the reason she walked along this path.

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Speaker 2: So what we're doing now.

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Speaker 1: Is effectively tracking the path that we believe Audrey would

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Speaker 1: have been walking whilst heading home to stay at the

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Speaker 1: friend's place at green Point. You can see this as

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Speaker 1: main Street. This is the main street and I think

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Speaker 1: it's even called main street at Gosford. There's a lot

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Speaker 1: of businesses along here. These are the type of businesses

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Speaker 1: that might keep a CCTV footage. So from an investigative

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Speaker 1: point of view, if you're trying to establish what path

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Speaker 1: a person took, you'd be checking these premises to see

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Speaker 1: if there was any CCTV footage to see if Audrey

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Speaker 1: was walking along this road. We're now driving past Gosford

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Speaker 1: Police Station that you can see on the left. That's

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Speaker 1: the actual command that was investigating Audrey's death. They'd be

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Speaker 1: very familiar with this area and familiar with the fact

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Speaker 1: that young people will find it hard to get home

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Speaker 1: at night, and the likelihood that Audrey would be walking

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Speaker 1: along along the road we're traveling on now. There's a

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Speaker 1: few quiet locations like this, but this is still near

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Speaker 1: the center of the Gosford CBD, so I think even

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Speaker 1: a young female would be feeling safe walking along along

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Speaker 1: this area. We're now coming into the area where Audrey

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Speaker 1: was murdered. You can see there's a creek, or it's

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Speaker 1: referred to as there in a creek, it's more like

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Speaker 1: a river. It's fairly substantial. We're driving on a main

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Speaker 1: road and there's a pathway that runs between the main

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Speaker 1: road and the creek. This is a pathway that Audrey

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Speaker 1: was walking along at the time that she came across Torrance,

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Speaker 1: the person who killed her. I'm just indicating to the

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Speaker 1: location in which Audrey was murdered. So we'll just pull up.

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Speaker 1: We're standing at the location Audrey Griffin's body was found.

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Speaker 1: She's found in the face down in the creek. There's

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Speaker 1: a big a set up with photos. There's flowers, lots

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Speaker 1: and lots of photos of Audrey and the friends, some

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Speaker 1: clothing hung, all sorts of things, even lights, flowers, stuffed toys, candles,

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Speaker 1: a whole range of things with Audrey's name written. One

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Speaker 1: thing that really stands out to me with a memorial

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Speaker 1: like this it's clearly just been set up by friends

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Speaker 1: of Audrey's, is how popular she must have been. How

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Speaker 1: many photos full of life photos there are, just as

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Speaker 1: her mum described as someone that was full of life.

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Speaker 1: And that just makes me sad standing here at the

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Speaker 1: location thinking, just one man's rage has stolen a young

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Speaker 1: girl's life. Just such a senseless, senseless killing. I'm going

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Speaker 1: to describe the location then just give him the thoughts

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Speaker 1: on how you'd approach this from an investigative point of view.

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Speaker 1: We know Audrey was last seen alive at Hotel Gosford

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Speaker 1: about two am, where she's been out celebrating with her friends.

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Speaker 1: I'm just walking along the pathway where Tyrans would have

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Speaker 1: been following Audrey. We know he at first was behind her,

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Speaker 1: possibly a kilometer back. This particular location is near where

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Speaker 1: Audrey was murdered. And what stands out to me here

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Speaker 1: if I'm looking back along the roadway. There there's not

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Speaker 1: a lot of trees separating between the roadway and the

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Speaker 1: pathway that Audrey would have been walking along. Just here

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Speaker 1: there's a clump of trees and there's a couple of

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Speaker 1: electrical boxes. I think that might make a difference if

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Speaker 1: he was going to strike, and I'm trying to anticipate

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Speaker 1: what's going through his mind, but there is a bit

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Speaker 1: of cover here for him. If this is where he

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Speaker 1: actually approached Audrey, we don't know what conversation has had,

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Speaker 1: what exactly happened, but there is a bit of distance

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Speaker 1: between the roadway and the pathway where that might have

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Speaker 1: been the reason he chose this particular location to approach Audrey.

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Speaker 1: It is quite chilling to think what she went through,

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Speaker 1: and she had a whole life ahead of her, and

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Speaker 1: it just breaks my heart and it makes me angry

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Speaker 1: that a person like Torran's, just an angry, violent, waste

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Speaker 1: of space human being, has taken someone's life like Audrey's,

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Speaker 1: who had so much to offer the world. Another bit

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Speaker 1: of I suppose sadness that's attached to attach this life

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Speaker 1: is the fact that it was Audrey's friends. Young Girls

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Speaker 1: nineteen year old girls that found Audrey found their friend.

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Speaker 1: They were so concerned about her, they went and started

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Speaker 1: looking around here along with another family friend and our

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Speaker 1: older friend came down here, found some of the property

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Speaker 1: and searched a bit further and then found her flooding

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Speaker 1: the water, deceased. So I can only imagine the trauma

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Speaker 1: their carrying. This is a fairly isolated location, isolated in

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Speaker 1: the early hours of the morning.

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Speaker 2: It's not a dangerous location.

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Speaker 1: It's not a location where you think someone would actually

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Speaker 1: trip and fall into the water.

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Speaker 2: So there's a number of concerns.

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Speaker 1: If you find the person's body, young girl nineteen years

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Speaker 1: old out celebrating and find her deceased in this river,

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Speaker 1: of course you're going to investigate it as suspicious. A

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Speaker 1: couple of things that really strike me about this location

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Speaker 1: and the initial police search was it was a matter

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Speaker 1: of days I believed before they found her phone. If

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Speaker 1: someone did, let's talk hypothetically, trip and fall into the water,

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Speaker 1: extremely unlikely. One would expect you'd find all the property

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Speaker 1: that she had on her at the time with her.

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Speaker 1: Her phone wasn't with her. They didn't find her phone,

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Speaker 1: So just from that point of view, I think the

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Speaker 1: matter should be treated as suspicious. You're looking at unnatural causes.

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Speaker 1: You start a homicide investigation, you treat it as potentially suspicious.

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Speaker 1: One thing that I was taught as a young detective

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Speaker 1: was never assume something is misadventure or natural causes unless

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Speaker 1: you can gather the evidence to prove that. From what

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Speaker 1: I see at this location, you can't gather evidence to

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Speaker 1: prove that it was a misadventure. There was an assumption

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Speaker 1: made that this was misadventure. As it turned out, it

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Speaker 1: was a cold blooded murder. And the way that phone

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Speaker 1: was found is also a little concerning in that it

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Speaker 1: was a friend, a family friend of Audrey's mother's friend, Lana,

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Speaker 1: found the phone. Audrey's mother, Kathleen, was told that the

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Speaker 1: location had been searched on numerous occasions, but apparently only

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Speaker 1: when the tide was high. Lana came down here three

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Speaker 1: days later and found the phone. She could see something

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Speaker 1: sticking out. She contacted police, well pick it up and

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Speaker 1: bring it to the police station. Thankfully that Lana was

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Speaker 1: a little bit more cluey on that and spoke to

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Speaker 1: another police officer and they sent police down immediately to

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Speaker 1: collect the phone and gather it as potential evidence. If

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Speaker 1: Lana was to pick up the phone, potentially it could

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Speaker 1: have been contaminated. There potentially could have been DNA or

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Speaker 1: fingerprints or some evidence trace material on the phone from

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Speaker 1: the offender. Another thing that's quite chilling about this crime

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Speaker 1: scene is when Kathleen describes going to see Audrey in

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Speaker 1: the post more than to say a goodbyes, as she said,

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Speaker 1: which is very sad, that what really haunts her is

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Speaker 1: the fact that Audrey didn't look at peace. She had

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Speaker 1: her hair were platted, but she had mud and dirt

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Speaker 1: in a hair. And something that really struck home with

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Speaker 1: Kathleen that Audrey's fingernails had mud under there under the

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Speaker 1: fingernails light she was struggling like she was fighting, and

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Speaker 1: I think that's something that really haunt haunts Kathleen. The

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Speaker 1: other thing about it, which I find quite alarming, DNA

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Speaker 1: from the offender, Torreans, was found under Audrey's fingernails. That

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Speaker 1: would be one of the first things you're looking for

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Speaker 1: when you're looking at a post more than a deceased person.

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Speaker 1: In these situations. If you take the camera up here

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Speaker 1: and you look across the creek to the river, there's

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Speaker 1: houses up there, houses that I think should be canvas,

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Speaker 1: and by canvas I mean daw not to find out

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Speaker 1: if anyone heard anything suspicious. It's fairly noisy here now

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Speaker 1: because of the traffic, but at two o'clock in the morning,

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Speaker 1: it's probably not so noisy. As it turned out, one

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Speaker 1: of the people in the houses across there heard a

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Speaker 1: female screaming at about two forty five. Sadly it was

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Speaker 1: most likely Audrey fighting for her life. That evidence was

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Speaker 1: uncovered by Kathleen, Audrey's mother. That shouldn't happen. These are

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Speaker 1: the type of things that need to be done, all

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Speaker 1: the canvases that need to be done.

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Speaker 2: A nineteen year.

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Speaker 1: Old girl, fit, healthy, active, happy girl was found to

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Speaker 1: cease in the water. This is something that should have

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Speaker 1: been treated suspiciously right from the start. And I think

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Speaker 1: the frustration with the family, and this is a sense

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Speaker 1: I get speaking to the family, is that how was

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Speaker 1: it written off as misadventure so early in the investigation.

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Speaker 1: That might have been the conclusion they came to after

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Speaker 1: a thorough investigation, but so early in the investigation for

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Speaker 1: it to be written off as a misadventure. I don't

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Speaker 1: know if it's miscommunication between the police and the family,

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Speaker 1: but it's something.

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Speaker 2: That we might try and find out. I sat down

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Speaker 2: with Kathleen.

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Speaker 1: For a very raw and unfiltered chat to shed light

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Speaker 1: on the impact of this senseless crime and the investigation

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Speaker 1: that followed. You're right at the start, absolutely okay. I

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Speaker 1: can't really start this conversation without offering my condolences for

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Speaker 1: what happened to Audrey. And I know words don't mean

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Speaker 1: a great deal the subject that we're talking about here,

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Speaker 1: but thank you. It's now been how long since Audrey

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Speaker 1: was murd To.

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Speaker 3: Be honest, I don't know. Twenty third of March was

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Speaker 3: when she passed.

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Speaker 1: I would imagine your life changed inconceivably since that time.

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Speaker 3: I wouldn't say I have a life anymore.

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Speaker 1: It's a heavy thing to say.

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Speaker 3: I don't know. It's just I don't know if it's

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Speaker 3: a real numbness, just numb myself by keeping myself extremely busy,

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Speaker 3: find it very hard to be alone, to sit still.

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Speaker 3: I'd say that I haven't accepted or given myself time

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Speaker 3: to agree for Audrey.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you've had a lot a lot going on, and

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Speaker 1: I know we've met on occasions and had a lot

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Speaker 1: of conversations and see the way the emotions. Yeah, sometimes

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Speaker 1: when I'm speaking to you, I feel like, Okay, it's

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Speaker 1: a step forward, and other times it feels like a

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Speaker 1: step back, step back for it.

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Speaker 3: Oh, absolutely, look at I'd say that the reason why

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Speaker 3: I'm still standing is because of the support that i

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Speaker 3: have from family, friends, Lana. There's not a minute that

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Speaker 3: of the day that there's not someone here or that

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Speaker 3: I can't call on. Every day is a roller coaster.

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Speaker 3: I feel like I'm just existing and not living.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, there's I see and you reference Lana and not

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Speaker 1: just what Lana's doing, but a lot of friends. It

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Speaker 1: looks like they've formed a circle around you and very

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Speaker 1: protective of you.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, it's nice, isn't it.

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Speaker 3: Oh, I don't know. Like, as I said, look for

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Speaker 3: my family, it's extremely hard because I'm not sure if

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Speaker 3: you're aware that we lost my dad two weeks after Audrey,

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Speaker 3: and my dad was ninety two, so my mum's not

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Speaker 3: aware that they were aware that she passed away. But

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Speaker 3: because of the delay and them telling me that it

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Speaker 3: was a misadventure, dad had passed in that time, and

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Speaker 3: then we found out that she'd had been murdered, and

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Speaker 3: mums in her nineties as well, so she was very fragile.

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Speaker 3: So I decided that this was something that I didn't

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Speaker 3: want to address with my mum. So it's been extremely

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Speaker 3: hard promoting everything in regards to getting the support from

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Speaker 3: the community and everyone to find some justice in move

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Speaker 3: forward in regards to what's happened here.

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Speaker 1: When we talk about justice, and you and I have

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Speaker 1: had long conversations about how I could offer some advice

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Speaker 1: or point you in the direction, and when you first

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Speaker 1: spoke to me, and when I first saw the story

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Speaker 1: of Audrey, I had concerns from the start when it

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Speaker 1: started hitting the media, but a little bit later than

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Speaker 1: probably what it should have been.

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Speaker 3: It's just appalling, it's appalling. And that were the words

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Speaker 3: exactly what I said to Yasmine Yates when.

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Speaker 1: She turned up the police minister.

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Speaker 3: Yes, when she turned up at the ritual. Once we've known,

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Speaker 3: once we've been informed what had happened to Audrey, and

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Speaker 3: I'd had an interview with sixty minutes that day, and

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Speaker 3: when I was interviewed, and when I spoke to Yasmine

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Speaker 3: and she said, look, she wasn't aware and that she

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Speaker 3: was her condolence, and I said to her, look, I'm

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Speaker 3: not here to get the police on the on the

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Speaker 3: on the back fold, you know I'm here. I want support,

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Speaker 3: I want just so, I want to find out the story.

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Speaker 3: I want justice for Audrey, my daughter was more than this.

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Speaker 3: I said to her then, look that I'd been interviewed

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Speaker 3: by sixty minutes, and that at any of that time

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Speaker 3: that I was interviewed, I'd rubbished anybody. I just needed

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Speaker 3: the story to be out for us to be able

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Speaker 3: to move forward and get some answers. I'd explained to

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Speaker 3: her that I hadn't done anything wrong in regards to

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Speaker 3: the police, but I did say to her that it

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Speaker 3: was appalling, and she said to me straight away, can

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Speaker 3: we organize a meeting, which we did.

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Speaker 1: We're going to break down in the podcast what exactly

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Speaker 1: happened and what you had to do to make sure

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Speaker 1: that the police were doing their job. I think is

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Speaker 1: probably an appropriate way to say that before you agreed

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Speaker 1: to do the podcast, you said you want to get answers,

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Speaker 1: you want to find out what's happened and why things

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Speaker 1: have happened. You also said to me that I will

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Speaker 1: do a podcast with you if you challenge me. You said,

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Speaker 1: I will do a podcast with you if you're honest

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Speaker 1: in your opinion about whether the police had done the

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Speaker 1: right thing or not done the right thing. So that's

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Speaker 1: the premise of what this podcast is going to be about.

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Speaker 1: We want to hear your story. We want to talk

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Speaker 1: about Audrey, because audrey life should not be forgotten. And

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Speaker 1: I just see your reference what happened at Terrrigle, the

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Speaker 1: amount of people that turned up, and I get the

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Speaker 1: sense that Audrey touched the lot of lives.

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Speaker 3: Look, she was always she is an amazing child, and

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Speaker 3: she's always been an amazing child. She was strong, she

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Speaker 3: was independent, she was driven, she was a go getter,

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Speaker 3: she was happy, she she loved life. She was a

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Speaker 3: beautiful human being. She you know, what she had achieved

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Speaker 3: in nineteen years is just and her friends, we're just

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Speaker 3: everyone's just blown away. Like everyone's it's still unfolding. People

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Speaker 3: are constantly always learning. And myself of all her achievements,

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Speaker 3: all the letters that she sent out to people in

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Speaker 3: you know, condolence and helping and supporting and loving, and

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Speaker 3: you know, just the other day, I ran into a

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Speaker 3: lady from Central Coast Sports College that said she didn't

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Speaker 3: know Audrey, but she was going into the office to

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Speaker 3: speak to one of the ladies, and when she opened

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Speaker 3: the diary there's a letter from Audrey. You know, there's

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Speaker 3: all there's signs everywhere. There's signs everywhere and every day. UTS.

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Speaker 3: She had such an impact that they've come back to me.

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Speaker 3: They've sent me a letter saying that they're going to

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Speaker 3: honor her a Bachelor of Business and Economics and that

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Speaker 3: she achieved so highly and she was such a beautiful

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Speaker 3: student that they're honoring her with a degree on the

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Speaker 3: fifth of November at UTS and her father and I

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Speaker 3: and friends who are welcome to come along. And that's

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Speaker 3: just one you know, from the outside reaching in and

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Speaker 3: yet you know, these are the people that keep me standing.

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Speaker 3: Like you know, the Sharks who she played for Interegle,

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Speaker 3: they've got a shield called Audrey Griffin that they're using

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Speaker 3: as a best player that they're going to give continuously

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Speaker 3: every year. So she's got this legacy everywhere.

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Speaker 1: Well she and the sense that I get she really

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Speaker 1: she lived life like the Sharks that was playing rugby

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Speaker 1: league and she.

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Speaker 3: Played for UTS the Bats.

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Speaker 1: You were at AFL doing triathlons.

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Speaker 3: She did to one athlete in Newcastle. Then she did.

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Speaker 3: That was our last trip together four weeks prior to

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Speaker 3: her passing, where she asked me to come along to

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Speaker 3: New Zealand to do an iman, which she didn't train for.

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Speaker 3: She's just an amazing When she put her head to something,

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Speaker 3: she just did it. You know, as on arrival, you know,

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Speaker 3: we turn up there and she's got blisters all over

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Speaker 3: her feet just before she has to do a twenty

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Speaker 3: one kilometer run, one point nine swim, and a ninety

347
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Speaker 3: k bike ride. And then we had just an amazing

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Speaker 3: trip where she opened up and said to me that

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Speaker 3: you know how she just loved Trevor and I so much,

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Speaker 3: and how grateful parents we were, and how lucky she

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Speaker 3: was that she had us as parents, and I was

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Speaker 3: so lucky to that time with her. And then she

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Speaker 3: arrives home and the next day she flies out to

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Speaker 3: Japan to go skiing with one of her UNI friends

355
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Speaker 3: for two weeks and then comes home that day. And

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Speaker 3: that was the day after that. She got up in

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Speaker 3: the morning and she said, Mom, I'm going to the

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Speaker 3: Central Coast And I said, no, you're not. We're organizing

359
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Speaker 3: this massive party for you. Because she was going into

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Speaker 3: the Navy on the seventh of April, and I said, no,

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Speaker 3: you need to organize. You've organized this seven man ban

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Speaker 3: and I need to know who's coming. And she said, no,

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Speaker 3: I've got to go up the coast and see my friends,

364
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Speaker 3: because she'd been away for four weeks, and I'd actually

365
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Speaker 3: said to her, look, you know your father's, your grandfather

366
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Speaker 3: sick in hospital. He's out in Blacktown. You need to

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Speaker 3: put family first. Anyway, she walked out the door as

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Speaker 3: teenagers do and didn't say much. And later that afternoon

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Speaker 3: I get a photo of her with my dad and

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Speaker 3: then a photo where she'd gone and taken my mum,

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Speaker 3: who's ninety years of age, out for lunch and took

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Speaker 3: a photo. And my last words were to her was

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Speaker 3: I love you, my babe. You do me proud. And

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Speaker 3: then she come to the Central Coasts, caught up with friends.

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Speaker 3: Didn't plan on having a night, she just wanted to

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Speaker 3: catch up. But then obviously been away for four weeks

377
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Speaker 3: living in Sydney, she hadn't seen everybody and was excited

378
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Speaker 3: and started off at the Terrygool Hotel with her friends

379
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Speaker 3: and then decided to go to the Gospel Hotel.

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Speaker 1: I'd see your face light up when you're talking about

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Speaker 1: those memories, like what.

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Speaker 3: Child at nineteen has achieved. You know, she's done Europe

383
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Speaker 3: when she graduated from YU twelve a couple of weeks later,

384
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Speaker 3: jumped on a plane by herself and went to Thailand

385
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Speaker 3: and did a tracking for two weeks by herself. You know,

386
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Speaker 3: she had a car list. She learned how to drive

387
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Speaker 3: in a tip up truck, her manual tip up truck.

388
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Speaker 3: She learned how to drive with me in a v

389
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Speaker 3: doub multi van driving back and forward to Byron because

390
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Speaker 3: that was our thing. We used to do a lot

391
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Speaker 3: of trips to Byron. She had a motorbike license, she

392
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Speaker 3: had a jet ski license, she had a you know,

393
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Speaker 3: she had all these license. I do markets, or I

394
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Speaker 3: was doing markets, and I was at Bondai and she's

395
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Speaker 3: living with a dad at the time, while she was

396
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Speaker 3: at uts and I'm sitting at Bondau markets and here

397
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Speaker 3: comes Audrey with her leather jacket and her helmet in

398
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Speaker 3: her hands, walking towards me, and I went, oh, my goodness,

399
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Speaker 3: you didn't just ride that bike which is too big

400
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Speaker 3: for her, all the way from Mattreville to Bondai by yourself.

401
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Speaker 3: And she was just like yeah, well, like.

402
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Speaker 1: She sounds like a force of nature.

403
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Speaker 3: Oh diving, you know, the Mermaids, the Mermaids, the Mermaids

404
00:25:51,240 --> 00:25:54,160
Speaker 3: our swimming group. You know how many arguments I had

405
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Speaker 3: with her in regards to always taking off from the

406
00:25:57,640 --> 00:26:00,360
Speaker 3: crowd and chasing this and chasing that and dive down

407
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Speaker 3: to the sharks.

408
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Speaker 1: Like she wasn't this is in the ocean swimming, absolutely.

409
00:26:05,240 --> 00:26:07,600
Speaker 3: Oh absolutely, even when we you know, this is at

410
00:26:07,680 --> 00:26:10,040
Speaker 3: Terry gall with the Mermaids, we'd swim around to the

411
00:26:10,520 --> 00:26:12,879
Speaker 3: you know, the point and around to the haven and

412
00:26:13,400 --> 00:26:15,920
Speaker 3: you know, always swimming off trying to chase the little sharks.

413
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Speaker 3: And you know, even when we moved, I moved to

414
00:26:18,640 --> 00:26:22,359
Speaker 3: Cronulla and I started swimming. We both swam ocean swim

415
00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:25,919
Speaker 3: and we were swimming around Shark Island and you know,

416
00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:28,840
Speaker 3: they're all going, Audrey coming to the group, coming to

417
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Speaker 3: the group. Off she goes because she sees a seal.

418
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Speaker 3: You know, like she was just fearless, like no fear

419
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Speaker 3: but sensible, you know what I mean. Fearless but sensible.

420
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Speaker 3: But she had this personality also that people always thought

421
00:26:42,200 --> 00:26:44,000
Speaker 3: like when she was out, they always thought she'd had

422
00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:46,480
Speaker 3: a drink because they'd say, oh, dds is out, because

423
00:26:46,520 --> 00:26:49,320
Speaker 3: she'd come into this whole personality and light up the room.

424
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Speaker 3: She wasn't a drinker, She wasn't a drinker. She just

425
00:26:53,119 --> 00:26:57,280
Speaker 3: loved life and she loved people. She just love people.

426
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Speaker 3: And that was that night, and that which has ruined

427
00:27:06,600 --> 00:27:16,720
Speaker 3: our lives. The story is so long, and the whole

428
00:27:16,760 --> 00:27:23,560
Speaker 3: thing is so appalling, and I just don't understand how someone,

429
00:27:23,800 --> 00:27:28,080
Speaker 3: anyone could treat any human being. And I feel that

430
00:27:28,240 --> 00:27:32,680
Speaker 3: society is just ticking boxes and moving through life without

431
00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:36,520
Speaker 3: a heart. And Audrey will never be a number, She

432
00:27:36,560 --> 00:27:39,639
Speaker 3: will never be just that child. She is my child

433
00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:44,040
Speaker 3: and Trevor's child, and I am going to fight all

434
00:27:44,080 --> 00:27:45,400
Speaker 3: the way for justice.

435
00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:50,840
Speaker 1: I understand in the conversations we've had you've made that

436
00:27:51,040 --> 00:27:55,320
Speaker 1: very clear. And I made some notes from the conversations

437
00:27:55,520 --> 00:27:57,879
Speaker 1: that we've had in the anticipation that we might be

438
00:27:57,920 --> 00:28:01,000
Speaker 1: sitting down like this and to keep clarity on it.

439
00:28:01,040 --> 00:28:03,360
Speaker 1: These were the type of things that you said about

440
00:28:04,440 --> 00:28:07,639
Speaker 1: the answers that you want and what you want from doing,

441
00:28:07,800 --> 00:28:11,880
Speaker 1: whether it's a platform like a podcast or telling your story,

442
00:28:12,200 --> 00:28:14,840
Speaker 1: that you want the full facts to come out. I

443
00:28:14,960 --> 00:28:19,359
Speaker 1: want to know why murdering scumbag Adrian Torrans wasn't in custody.

444
00:28:19,720 --> 00:28:23,359
Speaker 1: And I want to know why Audrey's murder was treated

445
00:28:23,400 --> 00:28:25,840
Speaker 1: as misadventure. I want to know why I had to

446
00:28:25,840 --> 00:28:28,320
Speaker 1: push the police. I want to know why police took

447
00:28:28,359 --> 00:28:31,159
Speaker 1: so long to arrest Torrans when he's clearly a violent

448
00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:35,439
Speaker 1: man and had consistently breached AVA orders relating to his

449
00:28:35,520 --> 00:28:39,400
Speaker 1: former wife. And the other thing that you said to me,

450
00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:42,840
Speaker 1: you just don't know what to believe anymore. You've been

451
00:28:43,480 --> 00:28:46,480
Speaker 1: dragged into this world that you don't understand. I take

452
00:28:46,520 --> 00:28:49,560
Speaker 1: it you wouldn't have had experience with police or criminal

453
00:28:49,560 --> 00:28:53,680
Speaker 1: investigations of this nature, the courts, all these things. And

454
00:28:53,720 --> 00:28:56,760
Speaker 1: you asked me some questions when we're talking, it just

455
00:28:56,760 --> 00:29:00,760
Speaker 1: seemed so naive, Like I thought everyone knew a coronial

456
00:29:00,800 --> 00:29:04,920
Speaker 1: inquest is about the what abo. But that wasn't your world.

457
00:29:04,920 --> 00:29:05,640
Speaker 1: That wasn't Audrey.

458
00:29:05,880 --> 00:29:09,520
Speaker 3: Absolutely not like and I say it every day, even

459
00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:11,959
Speaker 3: til all the loved ones around me. You know, the

460
00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:14,560
Speaker 3: support I have, The support I have is so solid

461
00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:19,560
Speaker 3: and I and something that I repeat over and over,

462
00:29:20,760 --> 00:29:23,960
Speaker 3: you have no idea. You have no idea that the

463
00:29:24,040 --> 00:29:30,320
Speaker 3: things how I feel that triggered me, and and just

464
00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:36,160
Speaker 3: everything about the story is just appalling to the fact

465
00:29:36,280 --> 00:29:43,840
Speaker 3: is you know everything about it, even to the coroner report,

466
00:29:43,920 --> 00:29:46,640
Speaker 3: to me going when Trevor and I had to go

467
00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:49,920
Speaker 3: and identify it or say how goodbye is to Audrey.

468
00:29:53,560 --> 00:29:56,440
Speaker 3: It was just wrong. It was just wrong. I knew.

469
00:29:57,240 --> 00:29:59,760
Speaker 3: I knew when I saw her, and I didn't say

470
00:29:59,760 --> 00:30:02,000
Speaker 3: any think to her father at the time. And I

471
00:30:02,120 --> 00:30:04,880
Speaker 3: drove home and I said to him, how do you feel?

472
00:30:06,200 --> 00:30:08,840
Speaker 3: How did you feel when you saw Audrey? And he

473
00:30:08,920 --> 00:30:11,680
Speaker 3: said she wasn't at peace. I said, Trevor, I looked.

474
00:30:12,200 --> 00:30:15,320
Speaker 3: I looked at her. I pulled the sheets down, and

475
00:30:15,400 --> 00:30:17,400
Speaker 3: I saw things that no mother should have to see.

476
00:30:18,040 --> 00:30:20,320
Speaker 3: And I was also told before I walked in there

477
00:30:21,440 --> 00:30:23,960
Speaker 3: when I asked, how does my beautiful girl look? Does

478
00:30:23,960 --> 00:30:26,680
Speaker 3: her hair look beautiful? Does it? And she said, we've

479
00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:29,479
Speaker 3: cleaned rupt she looks beautiful. I walked in there. She

480
00:30:29,520 --> 00:30:32,120
Speaker 3: had makeup under her eyes, her hair was platted, and

481
00:30:32,160 --> 00:30:35,080
Speaker 3: it was full of mud and tweaks. I'm not going

482
00:30:35,160 --> 00:30:40,680
Speaker 3: to go any further because no one needs to know that.

483
00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:43,440
Speaker 3: That's what triggered me, and I knew, and I went

484
00:30:43,480 --> 00:30:47,080
Speaker 3: straight back to the scene and I looked across the

485
00:30:47,160 --> 00:30:50,280
Speaker 3: lake and I saw a house and I rang and

486
00:30:50,320 --> 00:30:53,480
Speaker 3: I said, have you spoken to the house across the road?

487
00:30:53,760 --> 00:30:56,760
Speaker 3: He said, I'll get back to you. Then weeks later

488
00:30:56,880 --> 00:31:00,560
Speaker 3: of me asking and asking and asking if I can

489
00:31:00,600 --> 00:31:05,640
Speaker 3: see footage that they kept saying it was in Sydney,

490
00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:08,280
Speaker 3: and it was in Sydney. It's in Sydney. And I

491
00:31:08,320 --> 00:31:11,360
Speaker 3: was like, you know, is there cameras the police? There

492
00:31:11,440 --> 00:31:13,600
Speaker 3: must have been taxis, there must have been people going

493
00:31:13,640 --> 00:31:20,400
Speaker 3: past the third day. So I'm I'm at can I

494
00:31:20,440 --> 00:31:22,040
Speaker 3: tell the story from the beginning.

495
00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:26,960
Speaker 1: Let's explain the story from the beginning, because I want

496
00:31:26,960 --> 00:31:30,480
Speaker 1: to provide you with a platform of the concerns you

497
00:31:30,560 --> 00:31:32,720
Speaker 1: had right from the start and how it played out,

498
00:31:32,720 --> 00:31:34,840
Speaker 1: but just to put it in context, explain to people

499
00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:38,480
Speaker 1: what happened on the night Audrey.

500
00:31:38,080 --> 00:31:40,960
Speaker 3: Was so firstly, I just want to say that Audrey

501
00:31:41,040 --> 00:31:44,360
Speaker 3: wasn't intoxicated or have any drugs in the system. That's

502
00:31:44,400 --> 00:31:48,600
Speaker 3: come back, and that's another thing that's traumatized because there

503
00:31:48,640 --> 00:31:54,120
Speaker 3: was things that we needed to do to find out

504
00:31:54,160 --> 00:31:58,320
Speaker 3: those answers, and that was something very hard for me

505
00:31:58,400 --> 00:32:01,320
Speaker 3: to say goodbye to my girl order when we had

506
00:32:01,320 --> 00:32:11,200
Speaker 3: to do those things. And sorry, anyway, so that night,

507
00:32:11,360 --> 00:32:14,960
Speaker 3: that she went out. She only had a couple of drinks.

508
00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:16,840
Speaker 3: And they've told me that there was no way that

509
00:32:16,880 --> 00:32:21,200
Speaker 3: could have happened. She was it couldn't have been a misadventure.

510
00:32:21,840 --> 00:32:22,760
Speaker 3: It couldn't have happened.

511
00:32:23,760 --> 00:32:27,080
Speaker 1: Audrey's gone out on the night and started drinking it.

512
00:32:27,280 --> 00:32:29,000
Speaker 3: Well, she had a couple of drinks. She went to

513
00:32:29,040 --> 00:32:31,200
Speaker 3: the Teregle Hotel, which she wasn't playing because she wasn't

514
00:32:31,200 --> 00:32:33,440
Speaker 3: a drinker, and she said to a friend, Oh, should

515
00:32:33,480 --> 00:32:35,120
Speaker 3: I have a drink? And she said, I'll have a cocktail.

516
00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:37,000
Speaker 3: So I think it was like two or three drinks

517
00:32:37,040 --> 00:32:39,120
Speaker 3: that she had in the whole night. So she had

518
00:32:39,120 --> 00:32:41,160
Speaker 3: a cocktail there and then she had two red bulls

519
00:32:41,160 --> 00:32:42,920
Speaker 3: and Bokkers when she got to Gosford.

520
00:32:43,320 --> 00:32:47,760
Speaker 1: This is Gosford Hotel, Main Street, Yes, and.

521
00:32:49,400 --> 00:32:52,200
Speaker 3: Then she was with friends there and she ran into

522
00:32:52,280 --> 00:32:55,400
Speaker 3: some other friends and they were all going to the

523
00:32:55,400 --> 00:32:57,239
Speaker 3: Gosford Hotel and she said, look, I'm going to go

524
00:32:57,280 --> 00:32:58,880
Speaker 3: there as well, because it was a group of friends

525
00:32:58,880 --> 00:33:02,120
Speaker 3: she wanted to catch up with, which she did, and

526
00:33:02,520 --> 00:33:07,160
Speaker 3: she look once I saw the footage, she looked happy.

527
00:33:07,760 --> 00:33:10,040
Speaker 3: She was happy, and that's what I wanted to see.

528
00:33:10,080 --> 00:33:11,840
Speaker 3: I wanted to see what state of mind she was in.

529
00:33:12,680 --> 00:33:20,400
Speaker 3: So anyway, she left the hotel and she hung out

530
00:33:20,440 --> 00:33:25,200
Speaker 3: for a little while with a friend, and she left

531
00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:30,720
Speaker 3: the hotel and decided to walk to try and get

532
00:33:30,720 --> 00:33:33,080
Speaker 3: a cab because it's very difficult to get a cab

533
00:33:33,080 --> 00:33:36,480
Speaker 3: from the Gosford Hotel. Now, she could have done a shortcut,

534
00:33:37,360 --> 00:33:38,880
Speaker 3: but she's gone the long way along the.

535
00:33:38,800 --> 00:33:43,320
Speaker 1: Waterfront to describe for people, not for me, but the

536
00:33:43,480 --> 00:33:47,880
Speaker 1: shortcut through the suburbs or backstreets of a suburb, whereas

537
00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:50,120
Speaker 1: she stayed on the main she went.

538
00:33:50,040 --> 00:33:53,480
Speaker 3: In the lid up area where I would imagine that

539
00:33:53,560 --> 00:33:55,480
Speaker 3: she's done that to try and get a cab and

540
00:33:55,560 --> 00:33:59,240
Speaker 3: obviously lighting, so she's gone all the way where drifters is,

541
00:33:59,360 --> 00:34:04,160
Speaker 3: all the way around pass East Gosford Passy Eleanora. I'm

542
00:34:04,200 --> 00:34:08,799
Speaker 3: not one hundred percent sure he came from Gosford train

543
00:34:08,840 --> 00:34:12,839
Speaker 3: station and he came up from Surrey Hills. I'm not

544
00:34:12,880 --> 00:34:16,080
Speaker 3: sure what the procedure or what went on there.

545
00:34:16,239 --> 00:34:19,360
Speaker 1: And this is in the early hours of the thirty

546
00:34:19,360 --> 00:34:19,920
Speaker 1: in the morning.

547
00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:22,640
Speaker 3: I think her phone last dropped out at two thirty.

548
00:34:22,400 --> 00:34:22,840
Speaker 2: In the morning.

549
00:34:22,840 --> 00:34:26,040
Speaker 1: Okay, And you're understanding is she was heading into a

550
00:34:26,080 --> 00:34:26,800
Speaker 1: father's place.

551
00:34:26,920 --> 00:34:29,600
Speaker 3: No, she was heading to a girlfriend's place at Green Point.

552
00:34:30,040 --> 00:34:32,920
Speaker 3: So originally the girlfriend that she'd gone out with was

553
00:34:33,360 --> 00:34:36,840
Speaker 3: they were staying at her grandparents interigor which are friends

554
00:34:36,840 --> 00:34:39,960
Speaker 3: of all of ours, their close friends. And then the

555
00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:42,400
Speaker 3: girlfriend wasn't well. She went home and she lives at

556
00:34:42,440 --> 00:34:45,520
Speaker 3: Green's Point. And then Audrey went out with other friends,

557
00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:48,759
Speaker 3: probably only fifteen twenty minutes away from home from where

558
00:34:48,760 --> 00:34:53,800
Speaker 3: she was staying at Grea's Point. Yeah, and then obviously

559
00:34:53,920 --> 00:34:57,600
Speaker 3: she'd phoned one girlfriend, the girlfriend she went to Japan

560
00:34:57,680 --> 00:35:01,400
Speaker 3: with that she'd seen in that night, and had a conversation,

561
00:35:01,960 --> 00:35:05,000
Speaker 3: not to her directly, but phoned her and she didn't

562
00:35:05,000 --> 00:35:08,000
Speaker 3: pick up and left a few messages. Then she rang

563
00:35:08,040 --> 00:35:10,719
Speaker 3: a girlfriend in Japan who she's grown up with since

564
00:35:10,719 --> 00:35:13,640
Speaker 3: she was two, and had a big conversation about her

565
00:35:13,719 --> 00:35:19,360
Speaker 3: childhood and they you know, sent each other photos and

566
00:35:19,360 --> 00:35:20,839
Speaker 3: and then she got off to the phone, got off

567
00:35:20,880 --> 00:35:25,640
Speaker 3: the phone to her and then the phone died at

568
00:35:25,680 --> 00:35:26,800
Speaker 3: two thirty.

569
00:35:28,320 --> 00:35:31,640
Speaker 1: When when did you start to become concerned?

570
00:35:32,480 --> 00:35:36,319
Speaker 3: So, I I wouldn't say I was a helicopter mom,

571
00:35:36,440 --> 00:35:40,520
Speaker 3: but you know, being my only child, you know, she

572
00:35:40,640 --> 00:35:43,359
Speaker 3: was a very strong and independent woman and she really

573
00:35:43,440 --> 00:35:47,640
Speaker 3: wanted to be independent, and so the deal was that

574
00:35:48,160 --> 00:35:50,680
Speaker 3: I've always said, you do me good, you do you

575
00:35:51,040 --> 00:35:54,480
Speaker 3: do yourself justice and do the right thing, You're always rewarded.

576
00:35:55,160 --> 00:35:57,200
Speaker 3: So the fact that she was at university and she

577
00:35:57,320 --> 00:36:00,479
Speaker 3: was striving to make herself a you know, a better

578
00:36:00,560 --> 00:36:04,560
Speaker 3: person and succeed in the world, and I wanted her

579
00:36:04,600 --> 00:36:07,719
Speaker 3: to be strong because I'm an older parent and an

580
00:36:07,760 --> 00:36:11,040
Speaker 3: only child. And I said to her, the deal is,

581
00:36:11,080 --> 00:36:13,319
Speaker 3: I'll pay for your phone, but I have to have

582
00:36:13,640 --> 00:36:15,799
Speaker 3: find my phone at all times so I know where

583
00:36:15,840 --> 00:36:20,520
Speaker 3: you are absolut How we had always good strategies and

584
00:36:20,560 --> 00:36:24,120
Speaker 3: she never complained. She never complained. Everyone else complained about

585
00:36:24,120 --> 00:36:27,400
Speaker 3: me doing it, stalking her, but we were fine with that,

586
00:36:28,040 --> 00:36:32,840
Speaker 3: and she was fine with me paying a bill. And anyway,

587
00:36:32,920 --> 00:36:35,120
Speaker 3: so I wake up as I do before I went

588
00:36:35,160 --> 00:36:37,000
Speaker 3: to bed, and you know, I don't go to a

589
00:36:37,040 --> 00:36:39,239
Speaker 3: bit of lake because I do markets. And I looked

590
00:36:39,239 --> 00:36:41,799
Speaker 3: at the phone and I can see she's out. And

591
00:36:41,840 --> 00:36:44,239
Speaker 3: then I woke up at the cracker dawn and I

592
00:36:44,280 --> 00:36:47,839
Speaker 3: looked at my phone and I saw the location and

593
00:36:48,200 --> 00:36:53,400
Speaker 3: straight away I was alarmed. And I'm an ocean swimmer,

594
00:36:53,400 --> 00:36:55,120
Speaker 3: so I was getting up at every morning to be

595
00:36:55,160 --> 00:36:57,560
Speaker 3: in the ocean by eight o'clock and to take the dog,

596
00:36:57,640 --> 00:37:00,480
Speaker 3: her dog down for a swim at the beach. And

597
00:37:00,520 --> 00:37:04,760
Speaker 3: I was like Cranola, living in Cronulla. And I looked

598
00:37:04,760 --> 00:37:06,719
Speaker 3: at the phone and I laid in bed and I

599
00:37:06,800 --> 00:37:09,880
Speaker 3: sent her a message straight away saying, Audrey, can you

600
00:37:10,000 --> 00:37:11,880
Speaker 3: just let me know when you're home, knowing that she

601
00:37:11,880 --> 00:37:14,760
Speaker 3: wouldn't get it until she woke up, but just something

602
00:37:14,800 --> 00:37:19,320
Speaker 3: to put out there. And I hadn't heard back. And

603
00:37:19,560 --> 00:37:23,800
Speaker 3: I got dressed and I went down to Cronulla Beach

604
00:37:24,120 --> 00:37:26,880
Speaker 3: and I got in the water, and as I was

605
00:37:26,920 --> 00:37:30,800
Speaker 3: getting in, something come over me, and I just didn't

606
00:37:30,800 --> 00:37:34,000
Speaker 3: feel right. I just didn't feel right. So I got

607
00:37:34,040 --> 00:37:36,880
Speaker 3: back in the car and I drove back and I

608
00:37:36,920 --> 00:37:42,760
Speaker 3: started texting and I said to my partner at the time,

609
00:37:45,040 --> 00:37:48,560
Speaker 3: Audrey hasn't got back to me, and a phone's in

610
00:37:48,600 --> 00:37:50,759
Speaker 3: a location. He said, oh, she's probably gone out and

611
00:37:50,800 --> 00:37:53,920
Speaker 3: had fun. She's going in the navy, and I went, yeah,

612
00:37:53,960 --> 00:37:56,560
Speaker 3: And it's funny because usually he's very like minded in

613
00:37:56,600 --> 00:37:59,279
Speaker 3: that way, but he even question went, but it's very

614
00:37:59,320 --> 00:38:02,440
Speaker 3: unusual for all not to get back to you. And

615
00:38:02,480 --> 00:38:06,160
Speaker 3: then I've phoned her father, and then I've sent a

616
00:38:06,200 --> 00:38:08,560
Speaker 3: message to a very good friend of hers who she

617
00:38:08,600 --> 00:38:12,000
Speaker 3: stays with on the coast, that I thought she may

618
00:38:12,040 --> 00:38:15,320
Speaker 3: have gone back there. And I sent a message and said,

619
00:38:16,239 --> 00:38:20,160
Speaker 3: just concerned. I've seen a location on Audrey's phone, and

620
00:38:20,239 --> 00:38:24,040
Speaker 3: she said to me, look, sometimes when your phone dies,

621
00:38:24,560 --> 00:38:26,960
Speaker 3: the location stops at that location. So it kind of

622
00:38:26,960 --> 00:38:29,560
Speaker 3: put a little bit of ease of me. And she

623
00:38:29,560 --> 00:38:31,760
Speaker 3: could have been the phone died or in a cab.

624
00:38:32,000 --> 00:38:33,680
Speaker 3: That's what I thought straight away. She's in a cab,

625
00:38:33,719 --> 00:38:40,680
Speaker 3: the phone's died, she's asleep somewhere. And I but I

626
00:38:40,760 --> 00:38:45,279
Speaker 3: was still concerned, so I said to Jen, would you

627
00:38:46,000 --> 00:38:48,040
Speaker 3: I said, I'm just concerned. Anyway, she phoned me back

628
00:38:48,040 --> 00:38:50,239
Speaker 3: and she said, look, my husband's happy to go down

629
00:38:50,280 --> 00:38:51,560
Speaker 3: there for a drive, just to see if you can

630
00:38:51,600 --> 00:38:54,200
Speaker 3: see a car. And he drove down there, he said,

631
00:38:54,200 --> 00:38:57,359
Speaker 3: the car's not there. You know, she's maybe by this day,

632
00:38:57,520 --> 00:38:59,440
Speaker 3: I spoken to her father and he said, look, I'm

633
00:38:59,440 --> 00:39:00,799
Speaker 3: just going to jump the car and I'm just going

634
00:39:00,840 --> 00:39:03,000
Speaker 3: to go up to the central coast, because he lives

635
00:39:03,080 --> 00:39:10,440
Speaker 3: in Mattrell at the time. And in this time, obviously

636
00:39:10,520 --> 00:39:15,160
Speaker 3: her friends have got one eighty or something the same

637
00:39:15,200 --> 00:39:18,760
Speaker 3: type of thing. You can find locations. Yet they've obviously

638
00:39:18,760 --> 00:39:22,720
Speaker 3: been alarmed but not phoned me. And I'm not sure

639
00:39:22,840 --> 00:39:25,040
Speaker 3: of the timing because it's all a little bit too

640
00:39:25,160 --> 00:39:28,160
Speaker 3: much at the moment. But what my understanding on what

641
00:39:28,200 --> 00:39:31,479
Speaker 3: I can remember is that while all this was going

642
00:39:31,520 --> 00:39:35,920
Speaker 3: on with me, one of the girls who's who she

643
00:39:36,000 --> 00:39:39,200
Speaker 3: was supposed to come back to, had gone to the

644
00:39:39,200 --> 00:39:41,640
Speaker 3: police station and reported her that she hadn't come home.

645
00:39:42,040 --> 00:39:45,839
Speaker 3: And then they phoned me the police and said, would

646
00:39:45,880 --> 00:39:49,320
Speaker 3: you go to the nearest police station and just release

647
00:39:50,200 --> 00:39:52,000
Speaker 3: to say that we can put something out as a

648
00:39:52,040 --> 00:39:56,760
Speaker 3: missing person and a photo. And I'm in the car

649
00:39:58,320 --> 00:40:01,600
Speaker 3: driving to the police station. Time at this stage Trevor's

650
00:40:01,680 --> 00:40:04,400
Speaker 3: gone up north and he said you just stay behind.

651
00:40:05,719 --> 00:40:11,840
Speaker 3: And on the way to the police station at Miranda,

652
00:40:12,520 --> 00:40:14,879
Speaker 3: I get the phone called back from my friend who

653
00:40:14,960 --> 00:40:16,719
Speaker 3: went there in the first place to see if her

654
00:40:16,719 --> 00:40:19,480
Speaker 3: car was there, and her husband had found her bag,

655
00:40:20,239 --> 00:40:26,680
Speaker 3: her hair clip and her sonnies at the location. Firstly,

656
00:40:26,719 --> 00:40:30,000
Speaker 3: she just said have you heard and I said what

657
00:40:30,160 --> 00:40:34,080
Speaker 3: she said, we found her bag. Now I had to

658
00:40:34,120 --> 00:40:40,880
Speaker 3: travel from Cronulla to the Central Coast in this time

659
00:40:41,040 --> 00:40:46,440
Speaker 3: I get there, it's pouring with rain. It's overcast. I

660
00:40:46,520 --> 00:40:51,000
Speaker 3: get there too, ambulance police, Trevor being there, her friend's

661
00:40:51,080 --> 00:40:57,359
Speaker 3: being there also. I've been informed that her friends went

662
00:40:57,400 --> 00:40:59,879
Speaker 3: to the police station and said, what.

663
00:41:00,080 --> 00:41:03,320
Speaker 1: You going to do when they report?

664
00:41:03,600 --> 00:41:05,920
Speaker 3: When they reported it, yeah, what are you going to do?

665
00:41:06,680 --> 00:41:11,600
Speaker 3: So they they went to the site at the creek.

666
00:41:11,920 --> 00:41:12,880
Speaker 3: They went to the location.

667
00:41:13,000 --> 00:41:16,399
Speaker 1: Her girlfriends they went there prior to police going there.

668
00:41:16,480 --> 00:41:18,759
Speaker 3: They went to the police station and reported that she

669
00:41:18,920 --> 00:41:22,320
Speaker 3: was missing. And then they went to the creek where

670
00:41:25,520 --> 00:41:31,160
Speaker 3: two of friends and the grandfather of the young girl

671
00:41:32,360 --> 00:41:37,120
Speaker 3: were walking along the embankment and found Audrey floating up

672
00:41:37,160 --> 00:41:43,480
Speaker 3: so down in the water head down. When I arrived,

673
00:41:44,719 --> 00:41:48,600
Speaker 3: I'm in the ambulance. Police walked up to me and said,

674
00:41:49,960 --> 00:41:54,600
Speaker 3: I'm so sorry for your condolence, and I said, what

675
00:41:54,600 --> 00:41:57,960
Speaker 3: do you mean. They've just asked Trevor, her father, to

676
00:41:58,000 --> 00:42:01,239
Speaker 3: go down to the lake to identify because they were

677
00:42:01,280 --> 00:42:07,160
Speaker 3: bringing her in. She hasn't been identified. What are you

678
00:42:07,239 --> 00:42:13,080
Speaker 3: saying to me? And the ambulance who were amazing, pulled

679
00:42:13,080 --> 00:42:17,480
Speaker 3: me away and took him away. He walked then down

680
00:42:17,520 --> 00:42:21,560
Speaker 3: to the water side, stood next to Trevor, her father,

681
00:42:22,320 --> 00:42:27,280
Speaker 3: and was making jokes about the fieries. Now that's the beginning.

682
00:42:30,200 --> 00:42:34,320
Speaker 1: What you're saying that doesn't paint a good picture. I

683
00:42:34,360 --> 00:42:36,759
Speaker 1: suppose as a way of saying.

684
00:42:36,480 --> 00:42:39,400
Speaker 3: It, that was the beginning.

685
00:42:40,480 --> 00:42:43,959
Speaker 1: And then when you say the beginning, the.

686
00:42:43,840 --> 00:42:52,359
Speaker 3: Beginning of this, yeah, the hole. So then obviously they

687
00:42:52,440 --> 00:43:01,239
Speaker 3: identify Audrey. Trevor identifies Audrey. I go to Terragor, to

688
00:43:01,320 --> 00:43:09,600
Speaker 3: the Crown Plaza where I'm staying, and her father. I

689
00:43:09,600 --> 00:43:12,240
Speaker 3: can't remember what he went. He may have gone home,

690
00:43:13,239 --> 00:43:16,719
Speaker 3: he may stayed. Honestly, these pieces are really hard for

691
00:43:16,760 --> 00:43:19,879
Speaker 3: me to remember. Trevor and I are separated, but very

692
00:43:19,880 --> 00:43:23,800
Speaker 3: close and have a lovely relationship in regards to our daughter.

693
00:43:24,560 --> 00:43:27,480
Speaker 3: He's always been a part of her life and she

694
00:43:27,560 --> 00:43:34,760
Speaker 3: was living between me and him. At the time, I

695
00:43:34,880 --> 00:43:37,840
Speaker 3: was staying at the Crown Hotel, where I had amazing

696
00:43:37,880 --> 00:43:40,800
Speaker 3: support again once again through the community and the girls

697
00:43:40,800 --> 00:43:44,120
Speaker 3: that I swim with that were looking after me twenty

698
00:43:44,120 --> 00:43:52,279
Speaker 3: four hours a day, and I'd had mentioned is there

699
00:43:52,320 --> 00:43:56,800
Speaker 3: anything in the paper or in the media, and they replied.

700
00:43:56,440 --> 00:44:05,120
Speaker 1: No, Okay, Just so I understand that you've described what's

701
00:44:05,120 --> 00:44:09,400
Speaker 1: happened at the scene where Audrey's body has been found,

702
00:44:09,800 --> 00:44:14,960
Speaker 1: and that Trevor, her father identified the body. You've turned

703
00:44:15,040 --> 00:44:18,840
Speaker 1: up and you'll explain what happened there. What were you

704
00:44:18,880 --> 00:44:20,640
Speaker 1: told by the police, what what would.

705
00:44:20,520 --> 00:44:25,720
Speaker 3: Happen at that stage? Nothing? And they did say to us,

706
00:44:27,680 --> 00:44:31,320
Speaker 3: we will be putting you in contact with support tomorrow.

707
00:44:31,520 --> 00:44:34,800
Speaker 3: We will have someone phone you, which never happened. Never happened.

708
00:44:35,680 --> 00:44:41,560
Speaker 3: We've been on this journey alone.

709
00:44:39,760 --> 00:44:44,200
Speaker 1: Going from that scene at the location and then you've

710
00:44:44,280 --> 00:44:47,000
Speaker 1: come up from Sydney, so you're staying that Terry or

711
00:44:47,000 --> 00:44:52,400
Speaker 1: you've booked the into the Crown there. When was the

712
00:44:52,440 --> 00:44:54,640
Speaker 1: next contact with police? Did you reach out to them

713
00:44:54,719 --> 00:44:55,000
Speaker 1: or did that?

714
00:44:55,160 --> 00:44:59,200
Speaker 3: We've been constantly like constantly, the girls on my behalf.

715
00:44:59,320 --> 00:45:02,040
Speaker 3: I gave Permi obviously in the state of mind that

716
00:45:02,080 --> 00:45:04,239
Speaker 3: I was in and look to be honest, I have

717
00:45:04,400 --> 00:45:10,719
Speaker 3: been quite strong and direct and she's my daughter. I

718
00:45:10,760 --> 00:45:15,680
Speaker 3: want to answers, and I wasn't yeah yeah, and I

719
00:45:15,760 --> 00:45:18,080
Speaker 3: was asking the questions and the girls were treating very

720
00:45:18,160 --> 00:45:21,640
Speaker 3: lightly but speaking in the background. So I signed a

721
00:45:21,680 --> 00:45:24,520
Speaker 3: couple of girls to work with me and to work

722
00:45:24,560 --> 00:45:27,120
Speaker 3: with the police so that they could give me the

723
00:45:28,080 --> 00:45:32,080
Speaker 3: wordings that they use because obviously they don't make As

724
00:45:32,120 --> 00:45:37,400
Speaker 3: we were saying earlier, it's a whole new vocabulary for

725
00:45:37,600 --> 00:45:42,560
Speaker 3: me again, correct, And we were questioning and when I

726
00:45:42,600 --> 00:45:45,439
Speaker 3: asked the question, had it been in the media, they said, no,

727
00:45:45,960 --> 00:45:48,399
Speaker 3: it's like get me out of bed, get me down there.

728
00:45:48,640 --> 00:45:51,920
Speaker 1: Okay, So how this is what The day after I.

729
00:45:51,840 --> 00:45:54,120
Speaker 3: Think we were thinking as about two or three.

730
00:45:54,000 --> 00:45:59,920
Speaker 1: Days, had you viewed Audrey's body? By that stage, okay,

731
00:46:00,040 --> 00:46:02,720
Speaker 1: two or three days? There was nothing in the media

732
00:46:03,200 --> 00:46:07,799
Speaker 1: about it. Did the police suggest to you an investigation

733
00:46:07,960 --> 00:46:10,920
Speaker 1: was going on? Like I'm trying to get the story

734
00:46:10,960 --> 00:46:12,040
Speaker 1: from sides.

735
00:46:12,440 --> 00:46:15,759
Speaker 3: So I went down there straight away and said to

736
00:46:15,800 --> 00:46:20,359
Speaker 3: the police Gospel the police station, and I said, why

737
00:46:21,120 --> 00:46:24,760
Speaker 3: why isn't anything in the media. I've just looked at

738
00:46:25,000 --> 00:46:28,320
Speaker 3: something on social media straight away and some guy nearly

739
00:46:28,400 --> 00:46:31,480
Speaker 3: drowned in the haven that's saved and he's in the paper.

740
00:46:32,280 --> 00:46:36,760
Speaker 3: Yet my daughter's been found and nothing. And he replied

741
00:46:36,840 --> 00:46:39,080
Speaker 3: to me, we don't want trolls.

742
00:46:41,200 --> 00:46:47,200
Speaker 1: Okay. You asked or demanded of me that if you

743
00:46:47,280 --> 00:46:51,600
Speaker 1: do the podcast, offer opinions on if the police maybe

744
00:46:51,640 --> 00:46:54,320
Speaker 1: it could have been done differently or a different approach.

745
00:46:56,120 --> 00:46:59,440
Speaker 1: What we've got here. And I've been to the location,

746
00:46:59,640 --> 00:47:03,359
Speaker 1: so I've made an assessment looking through from a formal

747
00:47:03,440 --> 00:47:08,360
Speaker 1: homicide detective's viewpoint, nineteen year old girl found deceased in

748
00:47:08,360 --> 00:47:13,759
Speaker 1: those circumstances early hours of the morning, assumptions could be

749
00:47:13,760 --> 00:47:17,040
Speaker 1: made its misadventure, but I think a stronger assumption should

750
00:47:17,040 --> 00:47:22,360
Speaker 1: be a suspicious suspicion attached to what's happened here. I

751
00:47:22,480 --> 00:47:26,080
Speaker 1: would see the media using the media at that early

752
00:47:26,120 --> 00:47:29,759
Speaker 1: stages of the investigation. Sometimes there's legitimate reasons why it's

753
00:47:29,800 --> 00:47:32,600
Speaker 1: not released in the media. Sometimes there's strategies in place.

754
00:47:32,800 --> 00:47:36,120
Speaker 1: I don't know the full details of the investigation, but

755
00:47:36,280 --> 00:47:39,359
Speaker 1: given the fact that it appears on face value that

756
00:47:39,400 --> 00:47:43,400
Speaker 1: they were treating it as death by misadventure, there still

757
00:47:44,080 --> 00:47:47,200
Speaker 1: needs to be a coronial in a coronial brief of

758
00:47:47,239 --> 00:47:50,120
Speaker 1: evidence prepared, and I think it would be more than

759
00:47:50,160 --> 00:47:53,680
Speaker 1: appropriate to make an appeal to the public and put

760
00:47:53,719 --> 00:47:56,319
Speaker 1: it out there. Did anyone see this person walking along? Like?

761
00:47:56,400 --> 00:47:58,560
Speaker 1: It's not like? Did anyone see this person in the

762
00:47:58,600 --> 00:48:01,040
Speaker 1: middle of Sydney in the middle of the correct This

763
00:48:01,080 --> 00:48:04,560
Speaker 1: is a girl walking home late at night, in the

764
00:48:04,600 --> 00:48:07,600
Speaker 1: early hours of a morning, like an appeal? Did anyone

765
00:48:07,800 --> 00:48:09,799
Speaker 1: have any knowledge of this person? And perhaps put a

766
00:48:09,800 --> 00:48:14,040
Speaker 1: photo out so we have. You've described a situation where

767
00:48:14,160 --> 00:48:17,080
Speaker 1: Audrey's body was found in air and the creek, and

768
00:48:17,080 --> 00:48:19,840
Speaker 1: that was on the Sunday afternoon. My readings in the

769
00:48:20,080 --> 00:48:23,319
Speaker 1: in newspaper reports vary from three point forty five to

770
00:48:23,360 --> 00:48:29,960
Speaker 1: five pm on the Sunday as a rough rough time. Correct,

771
00:48:31,160 --> 00:48:34,600
Speaker 1: there was nothing in the media. Your process in dealing

772
00:48:34,680 --> 00:48:37,399
Speaker 1: with everything you possibly can. Two or three days later,

773
00:48:37,520 --> 00:48:40,280
Speaker 1: you're saying, well, you're surprised there's nothing in the media

774
00:48:40,320 --> 00:48:43,920
Speaker 1: about this. You've gone to the police and the person

775
00:48:43,960 --> 00:48:47,320
Speaker 1: that you spoke to told you when you asked the question,

776
00:48:47,440 --> 00:48:50,520
Speaker 1: why wasn't it released in the media, You're saying that

777
00:48:50,520 --> 00:48:53,240
Speaker 1: that person said, because we don't want trials.

778
00:48:53,360 --> 00:48:59,120
Speaker 3: Correct the whole everyone, not one person, not one person

779
00:49:00,120 --> 00:49:05,200
Speaker 3: come to me and said they believed that it was

780
00:49:05,200 --> 00:49:09,360
Speaker 3: a miss event. Everyone was like, no way, Like everyone,

781
00:49:09,560 --> 00:49:11,960
Speaker 3: there's not one person that's come forward. And when it

782
00:49:12,000 --> 00:49:13,680
Speaker 3: could have been a misadventure.

783
00:49:13,440 --> 00:49:17,120
Speaker 1: When was the narrative that when did you have a

784
00:49:17,200 --> 00:49:19,799
Speaker 1: direct conversation with the police that we're telling you that

785
00:49:19,880 --> 00:49:21,800
Speaker 1: they think it's misadventures all along?

786
00:49:23,000 --> 00:49:26,839
Speaker 3: Explained that look straight away, it was like it's a misadventure.

787
00:49:26,960 --> 00:49:30,239
Speaker 3: Even when he said that about the missut. Then he said, well,

788
00:49:30,239 --> 00:49:32,560
Speaker 3: do you want something in the media, and I said yes.

789
00:49:32,760 --> 00:49:36,160
Speaker 3: Then they release something in the paper, but only the

790
00:49:36,200 --> 00:49:38,359
Speaker 3: story without the photo. So then I bring him back

791
00:49:38,360 --> 00:49:41,120
Speaker 3: again and I was like, where's the photo. He goes, oh,

792
00:49:41,160 --> 00:49:42,680
Speaker 3: you want a photo, and I'm like, yes, I want

793
00:49:42,680 --> 00:49:46,359
Speaker 3: a photo. The whole time it's a misadventure. So then

794
00:49:47,680 --> 00:49:52,760
Speaker 3: we get the time comes to go and see Audrey.

795
00:49:53,560 --> 00:49:58,560
Speaker 3: We see Audrey and I know, and I go straight

796
00:49:58,600 --> 00:50:00,719
Speaker 3: back to him. And that's when I went to the

797
00:50:00,760 --> 00:50:02,959
Speaker 3: creek and I looked across the road and I asked

798
00:50:02,960 --> 00:50:05,879
Speaker 3: the question, has anyone spoken to the house across the road.

799
00:50:06,200 --> 00:50:09,640
Speaker 3: He replied, I don't know. I'll get back to you.

800
00:50:10,360 --> 00:50:13,120
Speaker 3: I said to him, this is not a misadventure. The

801
00:50:13,120 --> 00:50:16,000
Speaker 3: footage that they released three weeks later, they picked that

802
00:50:16,120 --> 00:50:18,439
Speaker 3: up on the twenty fourth, and that was three hour

803
00:50:18,560 --> 00:50:23,120
Speaker 3: footage of him walking behind her at two thirty in

804
00:50:23,160 --> 00:50:29,920
Speaker 3: the morning. And the reply was when I asked why

805
00:50:30,160 --> 00:50:33,120
Speaker 3: he was twenty meters behind at two thirty.

806
00:50:32,880 --> 00:50:38,879
Speaker 1: In the morning. Okay, but and that is after your

807
00:50:39,920 --> 00:50:45,319
Speaker 1: initiated them looking through the footage, correct, I suppose the

808
00:50:45,360 --> 00:50:50,120
Speaker 1: way that I would approach this, And I'm choosing my

809
00:50:50,160 --> 00:50:52,120
Speaker 1: words carefully here because I don't want to come across

810
00:50:52,160 --> 00:50:54,480
Speaker 1: as someone there again going I would have done this,

811
00:50:54,640 --> 00:50:57,879
Speaker 1: I would have done that. So what I'm saying here,

812
00:50:58,200 --> 00:51:00,719
Speaker 1: and you know we're here in your version of it,

813
00:51:01,080 --> 00:51:05,120
Speaker 1: what I'm saying here in circumstances, and I was in

814
00:51:05,200 --> 00:51:09,200
Speaker 1: homicide for over twenty years, so I'm not talking just

815
00:51:09,239 --> 00:51:13,880
Speaker 1: from lack of experience. So I've got the experience that

816
00:51:14,040 --> 00:51:18,440
Speaker 1: a situation like that, what should happen is that local police,

817
00:51:18,480 --> 00:51:20,839
Speaker 1: and it might be uniform police, called their first up.

818
00:51:21,480 --> 00:51:25,799
Speaker 1: They would then call local detectives. Local detectives would notify homicide.

819
00:51:26,440 --> 00:51:30,799
Speaker 1: Homicide would be formally in charge of that investigation, and

820
00:51:30,880 --> 00:51:35,239
Speaker 1: that's technically how it goes. So that's sort of like

821
00:51:35,280 --> 00:51:38,320
Speaker 1: a standard operating procedures. And I'm not talking out of

822
00:51:38,360 --> 00:51:40,719
Speaker 1: school here, that makes sense. And it was bored in

823
00:51:40,760 --> 00:51:44,600
Speaker 1: that way because there were problems where suspicious deaths were

824
00:51:44,640 --> 00:51:50,839
Speaker 1: treated as misadventures or accidents and evidence was lost. You've

825
00:51:50,880 --> 00:51:56,320
Speaker 1: got a nineteen year old girl, fit, healthy, no indication

826
00:51:56,480 --> 00:52:02,280
Speaker 1: of self harm, so that's it. Excited, So you're working

827
00:52:02,320 --> 00:52:04,480
Speaker 1: on the assumption you've got a young girl. For all

828
00:52:04,480 --> 00:52:07,080
Speaker 1: intents and purposes, was having a night out with friends

829
00:52:07,280 --> 00:52:10,359
Speaker 1: and was trying to make her way home. And I

830
00:52:10,400 --> 00:52:13,400
Speaker 1: do understand the central case. It's hard to get transport

831
00:52:13,440 --> 00:52:16,719
Speaker 1: late at night. I know those situations, trying to get

832
00:52:16,760 --> 00:52:18,799
Speaker 1: home late at night, walking along the street, trying to

833
00:52:18,800 --> 00:52:22,040
Speaker 1: get a taxi, trying to trying to find the way home.

834
00:52:23,400 --> 00:52:26,800
Speaker 1: So that in itself, there's no oh, there's some reckless

835
00:52:26,840 --> 00:52:33,040
Speaker 1: recklessness there. She's walking along where Audrey's body was found.

836
00:52:33,120 --> 00:52:35,319
Speaker 1: For people don't understand the Central coast. You've got a

837
00:52:35,400 --> 00:52:38,840
Speaker 1: very busy road and you've got a pathway. The pathway

838
00:52:38,920 --> 00:52:41,200
Speaker 1: is in between the creek. We call it the creek,

839
00:52:41,360 --> 00:52:44,400
Speaker 1: it's closer to it being a river. A river, the

840
00:52:44,440 --> 00:52:49,839
Speaker 1: pathway and then this busy street. It's not like she's

841
00:52:49,880 --> 00:52:53,520
Speaker 1: walking along a cliff face and accidentally falling into the water.

842
00:52:53,760 --> 00:53:01,080
Speaker 1: It's a flat, flat surface, a nice wide footpath. She's found.

843
00:53:01,400 --> 00:53:05,400
Speaker 1: Her phone stops at two forty five, two.

844
00:53:05,200 --> 00:53:06,960
Speaker 3: Thirty somewhere around there. Yeah, I'm not.

845
00:53:06,920 --> 00:53:10,520
Speaker 1: Sure exactly her belongings are spread around. It would interest

846
00:53:10,600 --> 00:53:13,760
Speaker 1: me how a belonging to it if she gives low tide,

847
00:53:14,600 --> 00:53:18,040
Speaker 1: if she just tripped and fell into the water. One

848
00:53:18,080 --> 00:53:20,600
Speaker 1: with assumed she'd have all the belongings there, but her

849
00:53:20,640 --> 00:53:24,919
Speaker 1: belonging to it spread around. There's a suspicion attached there.

850
00:53:26,760 --> 00:53:29,400
Speaker 1: Quite often with investigations, you don't know the cause of

851
00:53:29,400 --> 00:53:32,759
Speaker 1: death until the post more than has been conducted. When

852
00:53:32,800 --> 00:53:35,920
Speaker 1: the post more than was conducted, it's my understanding this

853
00:53:35,960 --> 00:53:38,640
Speaker 1: is jumping head a little bit that there was DNA,

854
00:53:39,200 --> 00:53:43,279
Speaker 1: the offender's DNA found under a fingerprints under her fingernails.

855
00:53:43,600 --> 00:53:46,080
Speaker 3: Left finger scratched him on the face.

856
00:53:46,280 --> 00:53:50,520
Speaker 1: That is a telltale sign that adds to the suspicion.

857
00:53:51,840 --> 00:53:54,960
Speaker 1: So what is confused. I'm telling you what we will

858
00:53:55,080 --> 00:53:59,560
Speaker 1: do as a homicide detective. We appoint the liaison office

859
00:53:59,600 --> 00:54:03,840
Speaker 1: of the family. The families informed that, look, we don't

860
00:54:03,880 --> 00:54:05,719
Speaker 1: know what's happened to your daughter at this stage, that

861
00:54:05,760 --> 00:54:10,480
Speaker 1: would be the appropriate response, but we're investigating it. When

862
00:54:10,520 --> 00:54:13,360
Speaker 1: we know something, we will pass that information on. So

863
00:54:14,400 --> 00:54:17,960
Speaker 1: that's how I'm saying. I was taught to run an

864
00:54:17,960 --> 00:54:22,880
Speaker 1: investigation of that nature. And yeah, the way I would

865
00:54:22,920 --> 00:54:26,160
Speaker 1: like to think i'd run that investigation, you'd also put

866
00:54:26,200 --> 00:54:27,840
Speaker 1: something out in the media, and I can think of

867
00:54:27,840 --> 00:54:31,680
Speaker 1: the media release straight away. Please have concerns for the

868
00:54:31,800 --> 00:54:33,680
Speaker 1: following the death of a nineteen year old girl that

869
00:54:33,760 --> 00:54:37,640
Speaker 1: was found deceased in Aerona Creek. Anyone that saw this

870
00:54:37,719 --> 00:54:42,439
Speaker 1: person last known sightings was at Gosford Hotel travel along there.

871
00:54:42,480 --> 00:54:45,840
Speaker 1: Anyone with any information please provide that to police that's

872
00:54:45,920 --> 00:54:49,759
Speaker 1: using the media to gather evidence. I would also have

873
00:54:50,520 --> 00:54:53,120
Speaker 1: you talk about the house opposite the creek. I would

874
00:54:53,120 --> 00:54:58,600
Speaker 1: also have a canvas conducted looking for witnesses, maybe eyewitnesses

875
00:54:58,719 --> 00:55:02,200
Speaker 1: or someone that's heard something I think in the area

876
00:55:02,239 --> 00:55:06,760
Speaker 1: that she's walked. You would also track between Gosford Hotel

877
00:55:07,880 --> 00:55:12,080
Speaker 1: to where Audrey's body was found. That would be I'm

878
00:55:12,120 --> 00:55:15,760
Speaker 1: guessing here, but six maybe five or six kilometers thereabouts,

879
00:55:16,040 --> 00:55:19,200
Speaker 1: passes a lot of businesses, some of which might have

880
00:55:19,280 --> 00:55:21,680
Speaker 1: even been open in the early hours of the night,

881
00:55:21,800 --> 00:55:25,400
Speaker 1: So you canvas san and you'd also look for CCTV

882
00:55:25,440 --> 00:55:30,680
Speaker 1: footage because the path that it appears that she's taken

883
00:55:30,760 --> 00:55:35,239
Speaker 1: goes past the licensed premises which would have CCTV footage.

884
00:55:34,760 --> 00:55:35,399
Speaker 3: Which they did.

885
00:55:35,680 --> 00:55:40,120
Speaker 1: You'd be doing all that, all that before you came

886
00:55:40,160 --> 00:55:43,560
Speaker 1: to the assumption that was by misadventure. What happened here?

887
00:55:43,640 --> 00:55:46,480
Speaker 1: Was this a robbery? If all her property that she

888
00:55:46,680 --> 00:55:50,200
Speaker 1: had at the time was not with her. Where her

889
00:55:50,200 --> 00:55:53,759
Speaker 1: body was found, one would assume, well, there's been interference,

890
00:55:53,840 --> 00:55:57,320
Speaker 1: they're possibly interference, So until you found all her property,

891
00:55:57,360 --> 00:56:00,840
Speaker 1: including the phone, you'd be treating that there's potently suspicious

892
00:56:00,880 --> 00:56:06,640
Speaker 1: as well. So, Kathleen, I'm sitting here only because I

893
00:56:06,960 --> 00:56:09,839
Speaker 1: gave you the undertaking that if you agreed to do

894
00:56:09,880 --> 00:56:13,319
Speaker 1: the podcast, I'll say, I'll tell you exactly what I

895
00:56:13,360 --> 00:56:17,759
Speaker 1: think should happen in a homicide investigation, which should have

896
00:56:17,760 --> 00:56:20,600
Speaker 1: burned because what I was taught as a young detective,

897
00:56:20,600 --> 00:56:22,840
Speaker 1: and I'd like to think I passed this on that

898
00:56:23,280 --> 00:56:26,440
Speaker 1: when you get called to a death in unnatural courses

899
00:56:26,719 --> 00:56:29,360
Speaker 1: or causes or slightly suspicious, you treat it as a

900
00:56:29,360 --> 00:56:35,759
Speaker 1: homicide until you can prove otherwise. So that's what I

901
00:56:35,800 --> 00:56:39,919
Speaker 1: believe is the benchmark on how this matter, Audrey's death

902
00:56:39,960 --> 00:56:43,360
Speaker 1: should have burn investigated. That's just to put it in context.

903
00:56:43,440 --> 00:56:47,399
Speaker 1: What you're about to tell us, what you went through, and.

904
00:56:47,400 --> 00:56:50,040
Speaker 3: It's exactly what I would have thought how it should

905
00:56:50,080 --> 00:56:54,120
Speaker 3: have been. Three day I'm ringing, going where's her phone,

906
00:56:54,160 --> 00:56:59,400
Speaker 3: where's her phone, where's this? Where's that? I want it

907
00:56:59,480 --> 00:57:02,839
Speaker 3: back even to the fact they took the car and

908
00:57:02,880 --> 00:57:05,320
Speaker 3: when I had to pick the car up her computers

909
00:57:05,360 --> 00:57:07,400
Speaker 3: in the At this stage they hadn't found a phone.

910
00:57:08,280 --> 00:57:12,040
Speaker 3: And when I picked her car up from is it crime?

911
00:57:12,320 --> 00:57:14,279
Speaker 1: What is it?

912
00:57:15,440 --> 00:57:17,400
Speaker 3: I opened the boot and her computers in the back

913
00:57:17,440 --> 00:57:20,080
Speaker 3: of the car and I ring here the detective and say,

914
00:57:21,440 --> 00:57:24,000
Speaker 3: why is her computer in the car? Why haven't you

915
00:57:24,040 --> 00:57:25,600
Speaker 3: looked at It's not irrelevant to the case.

916
00:57:26,400 --> 00:57:26,760
Speaker 1: Okay.

917
00:57:28,280 --> 00:57:37,040
Speaker 3: Then my beautiful Lana goes down I think on the Wednesday,

918
00:57:38,040 --> 00:57:44,880
Speaker 3: to show respect she's sitting there in low tide. Walks

919
00:57:44,960 --> 00:57:48,960
Speaker 3: up to the location and there's Audrey's phone sitting in

920
00:57:49,000 --> 00:57:52,640
Speaker 3: the mud, exactly in the locations of where the bag,

921
00:57:54,600 --> 00:58:00,200
Speaker 3: the hair clip and her sonnies. So Lana calls the

922
00:58:00,200 --> 00:58:04,800
Speaker 3: police station and says, I'm at the location. Are the

923
00:58:04,840 --> 00:58:10,920
Speaker 3: girls deceased? I think I found a phone? He replied,

924
00:58:12,240 --> 00:58:16,120
Speaker 3: can you bring it in? She then said, I don't

925
00:58:16,160 --> 00:58:21,440
Speaker 3: think you understand I'm at the scene with the young girl.

926
00:58:21,840 --> 00:58:25,120
Speaker 3: He said, well, how do you know it's hers? So

927
00:58:25,240 --> 00:58:27,959
Speaker 3: by this stage, she said in the background, someone else

928
00:58:28,040 --> 00:58:32,440
Speaker 3: jumped in and took the phone. Now she found the

929
00:58:32,440 --> 00:58:36,880
Speaker 3: phone in low tide. They'd been telling me for three

930
00:58:36,960 --> 00:58:41,840
Speaker 3: days that they've been scousing the area. Did you go

931
00:58:41,960 --> 00:58:45,400
Speaker 3: down in low tide. No, because we had divers coming

932
00:58:45,400 --> 00:58:50,600
Speaker 3: on Wednesday afternoon, No one went down in low tide

933
00:58:50,640 --> 00:58:54,600
Speaker 3: where they found her bag. Originally that's where the phone

934
00:58:54,680 --> 00:59:01,240
Speaker 3: was sitting. They also they also so a week later.

935
00:59:03,000 --> 00:59:06,400
Speaker 3: Audrey's life was taken. On the Sunday. The following Friday,

936
00:59:07,120 --> 00:59:11,240
Speaker 3: another close girlfriend that we swim with was driving to

937
00:59:11,280 --> 00:59:14,840
Speaker 3: Sydney at five am in the morning. Driving past the location,

938
00:59:16,320 --> 00:59:20,000
Speaker 3: she sees a man in the area with the white

939
00:59:20,080 --> 00:59:22,720
Speaker 3: shorts and the T shirt and the hat with a

940
00:59:22,760 --> 00:59:26,640
Speaker 3: stick poking through the grass. So she rings crime and

941
00:59:26,800 --> 00:59:29,200
Speaker 3: leaves a message saying I'm at the sea. Da da

942
00:59:29,280 --> 00:59:32,160
Speaker 3: da da daw. She goes on with her work and

943
00:59:32,200 --> 00:59:34,280
Speaker 3: obviously in three and a half three bit weeks and

944
00:59:34,360 --> 00:59:36,360
Speaker 3: we're all working on this because no one had actually

945
00:59:36,360 --> 00:59:36,840
Speaker 3: seen what.

946
00:59:36,760 --> 00:59:37,280
Speaker 1: He looked like.

947
00:59:37,320 --> 00:59:41,760
Speaker 3: At this stage, I'm demanding to see the footage. They're

948
00:59:41,760 --> 00:59:43,440
Speaker 3: telling me it's in Sydney, and I'm like, I've got

949
00:59:43,480 --> 00:59:44,880
Speaker 3: to come in. He says, like, you can come in.

950
00:59:45,560 --> 00:59:46,720
Speaker 3: So I go in and I said, I want to

951
00:59:46,720 --> 00:59:48,880
Speaker 3: see all footage. Now, I've got an hour before I

952
00:59:48,960 --> 00:59:51,200
Speaker 3: go in there to see the footage. And I'm sitting

953
00:59:51,240 --> 00:59:53,320
Speaker 3: at the creek with Audrey down at the creek and

954
00:59:53,320 --> 00:59:56,360
Speaker 3: I'm looking across and I'm like, you know what, I'm

955
00:59:56,360 --> 00:59:57,720
Speaker 3: going to go to door knock, and I'm going to

956
00:59:57,760 --> 00:59:59,960
Speaker 3: go to the VP, I'm going to go to the brewery.

957
01:00:00,200 --> 01:00:01,880
Speaker 3: I'm going to go to all those places. I'm going

958
01:00:01,920 --> 01:00:06,959
Speaker 3: to go the main house. When you look across said

959
01:00:07,000 --> 01:00:10,240
Speaker 3: they haven't had anyone.

960
01:00:09,400 --> 01:00:11,040
Speaker 1: That wasn't canvas.

961
01:00:11,320 --> 01:00:13,880
Speaker 3: It was canvas. So they originally so when we brought

962
01:00:13,920 --> 01:00:16,600
Speaker 3: it to attention and that we end up having an

963
01:00:16,800 --> 01:00:21,240
Speaker 3: interview with police, they informed us that they did scals,

964
01:00:21,360 --> 01:00:23,680
Speaker 3: but they left business cards in their doors.

965
01:00:25,040 --> 01:00:29,360
Speaker 1: Okay, it's a couple of things. Just break down a

966
01:00:29,400 --> 01:00:31,800
Speaker 1: couple of things. If we just go back to the

967
01:00:31,840 --> 01:00:36,320
Speaker 1: phone for a moment. Did they come they told Lana

968
01:00:36,440 --> 01:00:38,680
Speaker 1: just to bring the phone in. Did they actually send

969
01:00:38,760 --> 01:00:44,560
Speaker 1: police down and take photographs and in siture and preserve

970
01:00:44,600 --> 01:00:47,480
Speaker 1: it properly? Okay, Well, that's that's good to know that

971
01:00:48,280 --> 01:00:51,440
Speaker 1: with the canvas of a place, you're not canvassing a

972
01:00:51,480 --> 01:00:57,040
Speaker 1: place by leaving a business carden. What a lot of

973
01:00:57,080 --> 01:01:00,720
Speaker 1: people And again, I can only bring back to practices

974
01:01:00,760 --> 01:01:03,800
Speaker 1: that I was taught that a canvas is complete when

975
01:01:03,800 --> 01:01:08,200
Speaker 1: everyone's being spoken to, like not just leaving, leaving a

976
01:01:08,240 --> 01:01:11,040
Speaker 1: card and the door, like people look at it, say

977
01:01:11,040 --> 01:01:17,080
Speaker 1: what going to those businesses? And this is all three

978
01:01:17,120 --> 01:01:18,720
Speaker 1: weeks after.

979
01:01:18,440 --> 01:01:20,560
Speaker 3: Two to three weeks, I would say.

980
01:01:20,400 --> 01:01:23,720
Speaker 1: So at this point in time, are you of the

981
01:01:23,760 --> 01:01:26,880
Speaker 1: belief that police are just treating this as misadventure? Of course,

982
01:01:27,360 --> 01:01:28,760
Speaker 1: were you actually told that we.

983
01:01:29,320 --> 01:01:32,200
Speaker 3: All along, all along to the fact that I'm like,

984
01:01:32,320 --> 01:01:36,240
Speaker 3: it is not like when I saw Audrey. I knew,

985
01:01:37,680 --> 01:01:42,760
Speaker 3: not because I'm a crazy woman just going. I knew I.

986
01:01:44,480 --> 01:01:47,080
Speaker 1: Looked not just marks the face.

987
01:01:47,640 --> 01:01:52,080
Speaker 3: More than that you knew. I saw her hands. I

988
01:01:52,120 --> 01:01:56,000
Speaker 3: saw her hands and straightway I knew what she was

989
01:01:56,040 --> 01:02:03,960
Speaker 3: doing crawling. I'm like that full of mud.

990
01:02:04,600 --> 01:02:05,320
Speaker 1: That's what you saw.

991
01:02:05,520 --> 01:02:10,320
Speaker 3: I picked up dirty full of mud. And I went

992
01:02:10,360 --> 01:02:12,400
Speaker 3: back to him and I said, this is not a

993
01:02:12,400 --> 01:02:13,720
Speaker 3: bit of adventure, Kathleen.

994
01:02:13,760 --> 01:02:14,080
Speaker 1: It is.

995
01:02:14,880 --> 01:02:17,360
Speaker 3: It is even to the fact.

996
01:02:17,200 --> 01:02:21,680
Speaker 1: Where so you actually had that conversation.

997
01:02:21,360 --> 01:02:23,680
Speaker 3: Many many, many many times. I've got witnesses I had.

998
01:02:23,760 --> 01:02:26,640
Speaker 3: I brought people with me the whole time, Lana, I

999
01:02:26,680 --> 01:02:28,800
Speaker 3: brought all the girls with me, so I had back

1000
01:02:28,880 --> 01:02:31,760
Speaker 3: up and support all the time.

1001
01:02:32,800 --> 01:02:34,680
Speaker 1: And was there any softening from police?

1002
01:02:34,720 --> 01:02:39,080
Speaker 3: Did they never there was nothing. It was always silence.

1003
01:02:39,160 --> 01:02:43,840
Speaker 3: It was very silent. Whenever I adjusted anything or said anything,

1004
01:02:43,960 --> 01:02:48,320
Speaker 3: it was just Yeah. The two who I won't shame

1005
01:02:48,360 --> 01:02:53,720
Speaker 3: their names, that just sat there and I said, tell me,

1006
01:02:55,200 --> 01:03:00,840
Speaker 3: do you have children? He said, yes, How would you

1007
01:03:00,880 --> 01:03:06,080
Speaker 3: feel this happened? He's a misadventure, I understand, but it's

1008
01:03:06,120 --> 01:03:11,280
Speaker 3: a misadventure. It's not a misadventure. This is not a misadventure.

1009
01:03:12,000 --> 01:03:15,640
Speaker 3: And to the point when I asked, when I went

1010
01:03:15,760 --> 01:03:18,040
Speaker 3: door knocking, and then I went in to see the

1011
01:03:18,080 --> 01:03:20,960
Speaker 3: footage and I walked in and I said to him,

1012
01:03:21,360 --> 01:03:25,280
Speaker 3: so you told me that you've gone daughter at all?

1013
01:03:25,480 --> 01:03:28,280
Speaker 3: He said yes. I said, because I've got the phone numbers,

1014
01:03:28,760 --> 01:03:30,640
Speaker 3: and shall I get them out now at ring them?

1015
01:03:30,720 --> 01:03:34,120
Speaker 3: Because I've just come from their houses and nobody's had

1016
01:03:34,160 --> 01:03:34,960
Speaker 3: any contact.

1017
01:03:35,960 --> 01:03:39,040
Speaker 1: Had you asked whether homicide's involved at this way?

1018
01:03:39,080 --> 01:03:40,240
Speaker 3: I didn't even know those words.

1019
01:03:40,400 --> 01:03:44,960
Speaker 1: Okay, So in the world that you're not familial, not familiar.

1020
01:03:44,520 --> 01:03:49,919
Speaker 3: With that's the thing too. No support in understanding or

1021
01:03:50,640 --> 01:03:54,320
Speaker 3: understanding the procedure, the support nothing.

1022
01:03:55,440 --> 01:03:59,920
Speaker 1: Why And I'm offering you just asking for your opinion

1023
01:04:00,040 --> 01:04:02,520
Speaker 1: opinion here, But why do you think there was so

1024
01:04:02,640 --> 01:04:04,360
Speaker 1: much resistance from the police.

1025
01:04:04,360 --> 01:04:07,800
Speaker 3: When you're talking to them, I'll tell you straight away,

1026
01:04:09,840 --> 01:04:12,600
Speaker 3: they thought I'd go in there. This is my feel

1027
01:04:12,800 --> 01:04:15,640
Speaker 3: they thought when I'd go and see Audrey. I don't

1028
01:04:15,680 --> 01:04:19,680
Speaker 3: think that they even tried to cleaner up. I think

1029
01:04:19,720 --> 01:04:23,440
Speaker 3: they just put it straight down. I feel they just

1030
01:04:23,640 --> 01:04:26,280
Speaker 3: if I'd walked in there and looked at Audrey and said,

1031
01:04:26,320 --> 01:04:28,520
Speaker 3: Michael eyes, that would have been the end.

1032
01:04:32,120 --> 01:04:36,080
Speaker 1: When we continue on and talk about it, it certainly

1033
01:04:36,120 --> 01:04:41,440
Speaker 1: appears the way that it was heading now. I'm assuming

1034
01:04:41,520 --> 01:04:44,440
Speaker 1: here because I don't know the full details. But if

1035
01:04:44,440 --> 01:04:48,400
Speaker 1: they're telling the mother who's continually coming to the police

1036
01:04:48,440 --> 01:04:51,840
Speaker 1: station and saying, have you done this? Have you done that,

1037
01:04:51,960 --> 01:04:54,920
Speaker 1: it's misadventure. And that's what you're saying. Correct me if

1038
01:04:54,960 --> 01:05:01,320
Speaker 1: I'm wrong. They're telling you on numerous occasions, this is misadventure.

1039
01:05:01,400 --> 01:05:04,320
Speaker 1: Unless you kept pushing very well, could have just been

1040
01:05:04,320 --> 01:05:06,040
Speaker 1: written off as a misadventure.

1041
01:05:06,120 --> 01:05:06,720
Speaker 3: Absolutely