1
00:00:05,881 --> 00:00:07,281
Speaker 1: Apote production.

2
00:00:14,481 --> 00:00:18,160
Speaker 2: For those of you who haven't listened to the Lady Vanishers,

3
00:00:18,320 --> 00:00:20,241
Speaker 2: she might not know who I am, but my name

4
00:00:20,320 --> 00:00:23,601
Speaker 2: is Sally and I am the daughter of long term

5
00:00:23,601 --> 00:00:29,321
Speaker 2: missing person Marion Barta. I'm currently fifty one and to

6
00:00:29,361 --> 00:00:32,681
Speaker 2: put some perspective into my situation, my mum was fifty

7
00:00:32,681 --> 00:00:36,081
Speaker 2: one when she disappeared from my life. So my mom

8
00:00:36,321 --> 00:00:41,160
Speaker 2: is Marion Bartera. She was a award winning school teacher.

9
00:00:41,561 --> 00:00:43,921
Speaker 2: She was teaching at a school on the Gold Coast

10
00:00:44,561 --> 00:00:48,720
Speaker 2: called TSS or the Southport School and in the November

11
00:00:48,760 --> 00:00:53,001
Speaker 2: of nineteen ninety six she was awarded by AITA. Butcher's

12
00:00:53,040 --> 00:00:57,321
Speaker 2: actually was the presenter at the awards for the Netta Awards,

13
00:00:57,321 --> 00:01:02,281
Speaker 2: which was awarding teachers for excellence and one was voted

14
00:01:02,801 --> 00:01:06,081
Speaker 2: the best teacher in Queensland and she actually came to nationally.

15
00:01:07,161 --> 00:01:10,560
Speaker 3: The National Excellence and Teaching Awards allows us to recognize

16
00:01:10,601 --> 00:01:13,000
Speaker 3: and praise teachers who show excellence.

17
00:01:12,560 --> 00:01:13,121
Speaker 4: In their work.

18
00:01:13,560 --> 00:01:15,041
Speaker 1: It's a marvelous way to let.

19
00:01:14,961 --> 00:01:17,681
Speaker 3: The community know just how good our teachers are and

20
00:01:17,721 --> 00:01:21,001
Speaker 3: it also raises confidence in the profession. Yes, I do

21
00:01:21,121 --> 00:01:23,961
Speaker 3: consider teachers to be heroes and I mean it, and

22
00:01:24,000 --> 00:01:26,321
Speaker 3: I'm not just flattering you because I happen to be

23
00:01:26,401 --> 00:01:29,360
Speaker 3: the MC and speak of this evening how teachers have

24
00:01:29,441 --> 00:01:34,361
Speaker 3: thrived beats me. Teachers deserve our nations heartfelt thanks.

25
00:01:35,801 --> 00:01:37,920
Speaker 2: I had moved out and built a house with my

26
00:01:38,321 --> 00:01:42,401
Speaker 2: partner who is now my husband, Chris. And yeah, mum

27
00:01:42,481 --> 00:01:46,560
Speaker 2: was a busy single lady who was a dedicated school teacher.

28
00:01:46,640 --> 00:01:49,800
Speaker 2: She was always there early morning setting up for the day.

29
00:01:49,921 --> 00:01:52,081
Speaker 2: She'd always be the last one to leave the school

30
00:01:52,081 --> 00:01:54,041
Speaker 2: grounds because she was setting up for the next day.

31
00:01:54,721 --> 00:01:58,321
Speaker 2: And just a very passionate, loving, caring teacher and a

32
00:01:58,361 --> 00:02:01,001
Speaker 2: mother of two myself and my brother Owen. My mum

33
00:02:01,321 --> 00:02:05,721
Speaker 2: was someone who was very fashionable. She was ahead of

34
00:02:05,721 --> 00:02:08,641
Speaker 2: her time in a different way. She didn't dress like

35
00:02:08,681 --> 00:02:11,881
Speaker 2: everybody else. She used to do some modeling for some

36
00:02:11,961 --> 00:02:15,481
Speaker 2: of the boutiques that she bought clothes from. She loved

37
00:02:15,481 --> 00:02:18,161
Speaker 2: her garden and she was a really great cook. So

38
00:02:18,481 --> 00:02:22,641
Speaker 2: one of my fondest memories is her making bread cups

39
00:02:22,841 --> 00:02:26,521
Speaker 2: that had asparagus in the very seventies vibe, you know,

40
00:02:26,561 --> 00:02:28,561
Speaker 2: and we'd go to top wear parties and everyone always

41
00:02:28,561 --> 00:02:30,921
Speaker 2: asked her to take that and she made a fantastic

42
00:02:30,921 --> 00:02:35,281
Speaker 2: Pavlova which I continued to make today. She loved gardening,

43
00:02:35,520 --> 00:02:38,081
Speaker 2: and yeah, she loved classical music, going to the ballet,

44
00:02:38,281 --> 00:02:41,721
Speaker 2: going to the opera.

45
00:02:44,041 --> 00:02:47,761
Speaker 1: So nineteen ninety seven was a busy year for us.

46
00:02:48,041 --> 00:02:52,761
Speaker 2: Chris and I got engaged in that April, and we

47
00:02:52,761 --> 00:02:56,881
Speaker 2: were living in our new house. And then around that time,

48
00:02:57,041 --> 00:02:59,561
Speaker 2: Mum was seemingly getting.

49
00:02:59,361 --> 00:03:02,641
Speaker 1: Quite upset at school. I went to her house.

50
00:03:02,680 --> 00:03:04,160
Speaker 2: I would frequently go to her house and I would

51
00:03:04,201 --> 00:03:06,840
Speaker 2: go and see her ask as well. Because my job,

52
00:03:06,921 --> 00:03:09,280
Speaker 2: I worked weekends, so I actually had a couple of

53
00:03:09,321 --> 00:03:11,680
Speaker 2: days off during the week, and on those days off,

54
00:03:11,841 --> 00:03:13,561
Speaker 2: I'd quite often just go and hang out with her

55
00:03:13,601 --> 00:03:16,560
Speaker 2: at school and help her on excursions and things like that.

56
00:03:16,841 --> 00:03:19,880
Speaker 2: She taught reception. Just to let everyone know, so four

57
00:03:19,921 --> 00:03:22,240
Speaker 2: and five year old boys. I had a great location

58
00:03:22,361 --> 00:03:24,280
Speaker 2: down there on the Gold Coast where the school situated

59
00:03:24,281 --> 00:03:26,721
Speaker 2: really close to the water, so you know, if she

60
00:03:26,800 --> 00:03:30,001
Speaker 2: was reading a book about the beach, she'd actually take

61
00:03:30,001 --> 00:03:31,601
Speaker 2: the boys down and they'd take their shoes off and

62
00:03:31,641 --> 00:03:34,361
Speaker 2: put their feet in the sand, and lots of sensory

63
00:03:34,520 --> 00:03:37,081
Speaker 2: kind of style teaching and creative teaching.

64
00:03:37,801 --> 00:03:39,600
Speaker 1: But one night I was actually.

65
00:03:39,281 --> 00:03:41,721
Speaker 2: At her house and we'd had dinner, and I just

66
00:03:41,761 --> 00:03:43,921
Speaker 2: sat with her because she was quite upset. She'd been

67
00:03:43,921 --> 00:03:47,321
Speaker 2: telling me that she was upset with a couple of

68
00:03:47,361 --> 00:03:50,001
Speaker 2: the teachers at the school over time, like I feel

69
00:03:50,001 --> 00:03:50,401
Speaker 2: like it.

70
00:03:50,321 --> 00:03:52,001
Speaker 1: Was over a period of time.

71
00:03:52,161 --> 00:03:54,401
Speaker 2: And she told me that someone had accused her of

72
00:03:54,401 --> 00:03:59,721
Speaker 2: touching a boy and she was quite mortified, as was

73
00:03:59,761 --> 00:04:03,641
Speaker 2: I by that claim. And I can only put it

74
00:04:03,681 --> 00:04:07,241
Speaker 2: into my understanding in my feelings, but I feel like

75
00:04:08,041 --> 00:04:10,121
Speaker 2: there was a lot of tall poppy syndrome going on.

76
00:04:10,361 --> 00:04:13,201
Speaker 2: She sat on the couch next to me and she

77
00:04:13,681 --> 00:04:17,201
Speaker 2: fell asleep, and I remember she had her hands facing upwards,

78
00:04:17,641 --> 00:04:19,121
Speaker 2: so you know when you sort of sit back in

79
00:04:19,121 --> 00:04:21,441
Speaker 2: the chair and you just relax and your hands sort

80
00:04:21,481 --> 00:04:22,481
Speaker 2: of flopped to the side.

81
00:04:22,521 --> 00:04:23,921
Speaker 1: That's what she looked like.

82
00:04:24,001 --> 00:04:26,801
Speaker 2: And she fell asleep, and she'd been in tears that night,

83
00:04:26,841 --> 00:04:29,121
Speaker 2: and I just was worried at that point that something

84
00:04:29,201 --> 00:04:32,281
Speaker 2: was wrong. So when she told me that she was

85
00:04:32,281 --> 00:04:34,441
Speaker 2: going to quit her job and go overseas on a holiday,

86
00:04:34,801 --> 00:04:37,001
Speaker 2: I was actually okay with it. I was quite open

87
00:04:37,041 --> 00:04:40,801
Speaker 2: to that idea. Owen and I were quite settled in

88
00:04:40,841 --> 00:04:42,161
Speaker 2: our early twenties.

89
00:04:42,481 --> 00:04:43,401
Speaker 1: Owen had a partner.

90
00:04:43,440 --> 00:04:45,961
Speaker 2: He'd been with her for ten years and was engaged

91
00:04:46,721 --> 00:04:48,761
Speaker 2: to be married, and Chris and I had built our

92
00:04:48,801 --> 00:04:51,880
Speaker 2: house and we just preshly got engaged ourselves.

93
00:04:51,880 --> 00:04:52,961
Speaker 1: So you know, we.

94
00:04:52,801 --> 00:04:55,001
Speaker 2: Were like, yeah, sure, go and live your best life.

95
00:04:55,081 --> 00:04:57,561
Speaker 2: Go and have a great time. You're single, you don't

96
00:04:57,561 --> 00:04:59,760
Speaker 2: have any ties here. We want what's best for you.

97
00:05:00,521 --> 00:05:03,881
Speaker 2: And then everything sort of started to roll really quickly.

98
00:05:04,041 --> 00:05:05,481
Speaker 2: So she put the house on the mine and she

99
00:05:05,521 --> 00:05:07,601
Speaker 2: sold it within three weeks, and she sold it for

100
00:05:07,641 --> 00:05:10,601
Speaker 2: fifteen thousand dollars less than she bought it for and

101
00:05:10,641 --> 00:05:14,521
Speaker 2: it sells really quickly. And she asked me if I

102
00:05:14,561 --> 00:05:16,400
Speaker 2: would come and help her pack up the house, and

103
00:05:16,440 --> 00:05:18,201
Speaker 2: I said to her, I can't tonight because I'm going

104
00:05:18,201 --> 00:05:21,281
Speaker 2: to Tathe, but I'll ask Chris and he'll pick me

105
00:05:21,361 --> 00:05:23,961
Speaker 2: up on the way home. Because that was in Southport.

106
00:05:24,081 --> 00:05:27,121
Speaker 2: Mum lived in Ashmore, which was the next suburb. So

107
00:05:27,281 --> 00:05:30,921
Speaker 2: Chris was at mum's house helping her pack up when

108
00:05:31,081 --> 00:05:33,001
Speaker 2: Mum came out and said to him, what's the time.

109
00:05:33,361 --> 00:05:36,521
Speaker 2: He said, like, no, seven thirty. I can't remember it.

110
00:05:36,561 --> 00:05:39,961
Speaker 2: He doesn't remember exactly what time it was. And she said, okay,

111
00:05:40,001 --> 00:05:41,760
Speaker 2: well I need you to go, so just drop what

112
00:05:41,761 --> 00:05:44,041
Speaker 2: you're doing. And you can, you can go. And he said,

113
00:05:44,081 --> 00:05:47,441
Speaker 2: I'll just finish packing this box, Marian, and she said, no, no,

114
00:05:47,601 --> 00:05:50,721
Speaker 2: just leave it. I need you to go. And so

115
00:05:50,801 --> 00:05:53,801
Speaker 2: he left and he came and picked me up from

116
00:05:53,841 --> 00:05:55,801
Speaker 2: Taithe and he said, got your mum's rude. I said,

117
00:05:55,801 --> 00:05:57,921
Speaker 2: what do you mean, Like she's never rude to you.

118
00:05:57,961 --> 00:05:59,921
Speaker 2: What are you talking about? And he said, she just

119
00:06:00,001 --> 00:06:04,320
Speaker 2: kicked me out. I said, how bizarre, Like that's so weird.

120
00:06:04,320 --> 00:06:06,721
Speaker 2: Why would she do that? So it was an odd

121
00:06:06,721 --> 00:06:11,481
Speaker 2: behavior for her and definitely out of character. And Chris

122
00:06:11,481 --> 00:06:13,681
Speaker 2: and I on the way home, It's around nine o'clock

123
00:06:13,681 --> 00:06:16,241
Speaker 2: at night by this point when I finished Tafe typically

124
00:06:16,320 --> 00:06:18,841
Speaker 2: and there was a McDonald's connected to a service station

125
00:06:18,921 --> 00:06:21,761
Speaker 2: on Ferry Road there in Southport, and Chris and I

126
00:06:21,921 --> 00:06:24,160
Speaker 2: stopped there to get something to eat on the way home.

127
00:06:25,281 --> 00:06:28,721
Speaker 2: And as we're sitting in the restaurant, I got up

128
00:06:28,761 --> 00:06:32,041
Speaker 2: to go and get Chris some dessert of some description,

129
00:06:32,361 --> 00:06:35,561
Speaker 2: and that gave him a window because I was sitting

130
00:06:35,561 --> 00:06:38,161
Speaker 2: with my back to the bowsers, And when I.

131
00:06:38,081 --> 00:06:39,841
Speaker 1: Stood up, he gave him a window.

132
00:06:39,561 --> 00:06:41,721
Speaker 2: Out to the Bowsers and he said, oh, look, your

133
00:06:41,801 --> 00:06:44,521
Speaker 2: mom's just pulled up. So I've turned around and I'm

134
00:06:44,601 --> 00:06:48,200
Speaker 2: standing at the glass and I'm waving at her. She's

135
00:06:48,241 --> 00:06:50,281
Speaker 2: got out of the car. She's standing at the door

136
00:06:50,320 --> 00:06:53,280
Speaker 2: with the door open, like she's about to start putting

137
00:06:53,281 --> 00:06:55,681
Speaker 2: fuel in the car, and she's staring at me like

138
00:06:55,721 --> 00:06:58,321
Speaker 2: a deer in headlights. And I noticed there's a man

139
00:06:58,401 --> 00:07:00,921
Speaker 2: in the car, and all I can see is that

140
00:07:00,961 --> 00:07:04,561
Speaker 2: he's really tall, and it just looked dark to me

141
00:07:04,721 --> 00:07:08,400
Speaker 2: because I always said dark features, but rethinking it, and

142
00:07:08,440 --> 00:07:10,721
Speaker 2: we've actually gone back to that service station and looked

143
00:07:10,721 --> 00:07:12,721
Speaker 2: at the lighting and everything. It was probably because of

144
00:07:12,761 --> 00:07:15,801
Speaker 2: the light reflecting off the windscreen, and it was late

145
00:07:15,801 --> 00:07:16,561
Speaker 2: at night, so it.

146
00:07:16,481 --> 00:07:17,721
Speaker 1: Was dark outside.

147
00:07:17,841 --> 00:07:21,561
Speaker 2: But he was tall, and his head was almost touching

148
00:07:21,601 --> 00:07:24,521
Speaker 2: the roof of her Honda Civic, so with small hatchback

149
00:07:24,561 --> 00:07:26,361
Speaker 2: car so not a big car, that his head was

150
00:07:26,761 --> 00:07:31,441
Speaker 2: almost touching the roof. And instead of getting fuel, she

151
00:07:31,601 --> 00:07:34,001
Speaker 2: got back in the car and she drove off, and

152
00:07:34,081 --> 00:07:36,641
Speaker 2: she instead of driving past us where we would have

153
00:07:36,801 --> 00:07:39,401
Speaker 2: seen whoever that man was in the car, quite clearly,

154
00:07:39,841 --> 00:07:42,481
Speaker 2: she went around the back and got stuck going through

155
00:07:42,521 --> 00:07:45,561
Speaker 2: the drive through. So I ran over to the glass

156
00:07:45,561 --> 00:07:48,721
Speaker 2: and I went busted. I've seen you you've got a man,

157
00:07:48,841 --> 00:07:51,161
Speaker 2: like what's happening with him? As a bit of a joke,

158
00:07:51,201 --> 00:07:53,281
Speaker 2: thinking it was funny. I'm like, oh my god, she's

159
00:07:53,281 --> 00:07:55,001
Speaker 2: got a boyfriend. She just doesn't want to tell us

160
00:07:55,001 --> 00:07:57,881
Speaker 2: about it. It's a very tongue in cheek kind of thing.

161
00:07:58,401 --> 00:08:01,361
Speaker 2: But she acted weirdly. The next day, I said to her,

162
00:08:01,521 --> 00:08:03,841
Speaker 2: who was the guy in the car? And she said, Oh,

163
00:08:03,881 --> 00:08:05,921
Speaker 2: it's just a friend that I've met from the art center.

164
00:08:05,961 --> 00:08:07,281
Speaker 2: He was taking her out for a drink, I think,

165
00:08:07,361 --> 00:08:09,841
Speaker 2: is what she said, which my mind was weird because

166
00:08:09,841 --> 00:08:11,681
Speaker 2: she didn't drink alcohol. But that was it.

167
00:08:11,881 --> 00:08:12,841
Speaker 1: That was end of story.

168
00:08:12,841 --> 00:08:15,081
Speaker 2: And I didn't push her, and I just felt, you know,

169
00:08:15,161 --> 00:08:16,561
Speaker 2: as a twenty four year old, I didn't have the

170
00:08:16,641 --> 00:08:19,321
Speaker 2: right to ask my mum what she's doing. It's none

171
00:08:19,361 --> 00:08:21,121
Speaker 2: of my business what she was doing. And I really

172
00:08:21,201 --> 00:08:24,801
Speaker 2: was very firm in our relationship on that sort of level.

173
00:08:24,961 --> 00:08:28,641
Speaker 2: So that was a very interesting point. And I told

174
00:08:28,681 --> 00:08:30,801
Speaker 2: the police that, and they could never find the man

175
00:08:31,001 --> 00:08:32,921
Speaker 2: who was in the car. We've never had anyone come

176
00:08:32,961 --> 00:08:34,761
Speaker 2: forward and say, oh, that was me. I was with

177
00:08:34,841 --> 00:08:38,761
Speaker 2: Marian on that night, So that's another part of the story.

178
00:08:39,321 --> 00:08:41,681
Speaker 2: Who was the man in the car with her at

179
00:08:41,721 --> 00:08:44,161
Speaker 2: that time in her timeline when she was packing up

180
00:08:44,161 --> 00:08:47,121
Speaker 2: her house getting ready to go overseas, and she's left

181
00:08:47,161 --> 00:08:50,881
Speaker 2: the country within a month and changed her name all

182
00:08:50,921 --> 00:08:52,401
Speaker 2: in that one month time period.

183
00:08:53,121 --> 00:08:54,201
Speaker 1: But anyway, she did it.

184
00:08:54,361 --> 00:08:57,841
Speaker 2: She packed up all her things and she put all

185
00:08:57,841 --> 00:09:01,361
Speaker 2: her treasures into a shipping container, is what she told me.

186
00:09:02,041 --> 00:09:04,201
Speaker 2: And she gave Chris and I some big pieces of

187
00:09:04,241 --> 00:09:07,441
Speaker 2: furniture and said to me, when I come back, I'm

188
00:09:07,481 --> 00:09:09,241
Speaker 2: going to buy a unit at Maine Beach, which is

189
00:09:09,241 --> 00:09:11,961
Speaker 2: on the Gold Coast, and I'll be downsizing because I've

190
00:09:11,961 --> 00:09:14,201
Speaker 2: got a three bedroom house with a swimming pool and

191
00:09:14,601 --> 00:09:16,241
Speaker 2: I don't use the pool. The house is too big

192
00:09:16,281 --> 00:09:19,641
Speaker 2: for me. I just want to downsize again. I went, fine,

193
00:09:19,721 --> 00:09:20,321
Speaker 2: no problem.

194
00:09:20,881 --> 00:09:22,961
Speaker 1: So that all started to happen.

195
00:09:23,281 --> 00:09:27,161
Speaker 2: The REMOVALSS truck arrived at our house and dropped off

196
00:09:27,281 --> 00:09:30,321
Speaker 2: the things that were coming to us. Then she had

197
00:09:30,361 --> 00:09:34,081
Speaker 2: asked Chris's grandparents, who had a pool room up the

198
00:09:34,121 --> 00:09:37,121
Speaker 2: back of their house, if they could store some of

199
00:09:37,121 --> 00:09:40,081
Speaker 2: her school things. And I think there was a mattress

200
00:09:40,081 --> 00:09:42,281
Speaker 2: and there was boxes of sheets and towels and things

201
00:09:42,321 --> 00:09:44,841
Speaker 2: like that which was stored up at Nana and pars

202
00:09:45,481 --> 00:09:47,361
Speaker 2: and the rest of it went.

203
00:09:47,281 --> 00:09:48,801
Speaker 1: In the truck on the shipping container.

204
00:09:48,841 --> 00:09:50,841
Speaker 2: In my mind, and Mum just said to me, oh,

205
00:09:50,881 --> 00:09:53,881
Speaker 2: if I decide to stay over there and teach, I'll

206
00:09:53,921 --> 00:09:56,121
Speaker 2: just get you toscend it over to me. And I never,

207
00:09:56,361 --> 00:09:58,521
Speaker 2: as a twenty three twenty four year old, never thought

208
00:09:58,521 --> 00:10:01,361
Speaker 2: to go, hey, where are you storing the shipping container?

209
00:10:01,921 --> 00:10:04,961
Speaker 2: I just met Yet, no problem, Like that's a normal conversation.

210
00:10:05,121 --> 00:10:07,881
Speaker 2: And my mum was a little bit you know, probably

211
00:10:07,961 --> 00:10:09,681
Speaker 2: left of Senna when it came to things like that.

212
00:10:09,761 --> 00:10:11,521
Speaker 2: And if she wanted to go and teach. She liked

213
00:10:11,641 --> 00:10:16,241
Speaker 2: Montessori and Steiner school varieties, and she was really open

214
00:10:16,321 --> 00:10:20,601
Speaker 2: to perhaps getting a job over in England and living

215
00:10:20,601 --> 00:10:24,481
Speaker 2: the jane Ere and the world of Wuthering Heights kind

216
00:10:24,481 --> 00:10:29,641
Speaker 2: of vibe. Where to begin. She lost her mother Alie

217
00:10:29,881 --> 00:10:34,361
Speaker 2: for a little man. This was a very different house,

218
00:10:34,401 --> 00:10:39,361
Speaker 2: a far different places. That was my mum, you know,

219
00:10:39,521 --> 00:10:42,601
Speaker 2: So it didn't seem weird or odd to me. Auto. Oh,

220
00:10:42,681 --> 00:10:45,241
Speaker 2: and I don't think that she would do that. Some

221
00:10:45,321 --> 00:10:47,921
Speaker 2: of her friends had sort of commented later down the

222
00:10:47,921 --> 00:10:49,321
Speaker 2: track that they thought it was a bit odd that

223
00:10:49,361 --> 00:10:51,921
Speaker 2: she'd sell her house to go overseas, But it made

224
00:10:51,961 --> 00:10:53,601
Speaker 2: sense to me that she said she was going to

225
00:10:53,641 --> 00:10:57,161
Speaker 2: downsize and it freed her up from having a house

226
00:10:57,321 --> 00:10:59,241
Speaker 2: sitting there for a year, and she wouldn't have put

227
00:10:59,241 --> 00:11:02,441
Speaker 2: tenants in it because she had antique furniture and she

228
00:11:02,481 --> 00:11:06,081
Speaker 2: didn't like anybody touching her things, so she was quite particular.

229
00:11:06,281 --> 00:11:09,921
Speaker 2: And then my birthday is the twelfth of May. Every

230
00:11:10,041 --> 00:11:13,841
Speaker 2: few years it falls on Mother's Day, and I was

231
00:11:13,841 --> 00:11:17,441
Speaker 2: pretty sad to find out a long time later that

232
00:11:17,561 --> 00:11:20,801
Speaker 2: my mum actually changed her name only a few days

233
00:11:20,841 --> 00:11:24,161
Speaker 2: after my birthday, and she changed it via Deepole to

234
00:11:24,241 --> 00:11:28,801
Speaker 2: Flora Bella Natalia Marian Ramkeel. I didn't learn about that

235
00:11:28,921 --> 00:11:32,841
Speaker 2: until twenty and eleven, so I think that's thirteen years,

236
00:11:32,881 --> 00:11:35,801
Speaker 2: fourteen years later that I actually found out that mum

237
00:11:35,801 --> 00:11:38,481
Speaker 2: had changed her name, and that was kind of shocking

238
00:11:38,481 --> 00:11:41,001
Speaker 2: to me. I didn't really understand the concept about that.

239
00:11:41,561 --> 00:11:45,841
Speaker 2: But that timeline is the fifteenth of May nineteen ninety seven.

240
00:11:46,121 --> 00:11:47,361
Speaker 1: She had finished school.

241
00:11:47,481 --> 00:11:53,041
Speaker 2: The term finished on the twentieth of June nineteen ninety seven,

242
00:11:53,721 --> 00:11:56,641
Speaker 2: and she had resigned. And I've got a letter that

243
00:11:56,721 --> 00:12:00,881
Speaker 2: she gave me that says that she was asking for

244
00:12:00,961 --> 00:12:04,041
Speaker 2: a reference so that she could potentially get a job.

245
00:12:04,881 --> 00:12:08,721
Speaker 2: That she was renewing her teacher's registration for the following

246
00:12:08,801 --> 00:12:12,601
Speaker 2: year in advance, so that meant that she had paid

247
00:12:13,481 --> 00:12:19,121
Speaker 2: for her teacher's registration for nineteen ninety eight and by

248
00:12:19,161 --> 00:12:21,521
Speaker 2: the Sunday, the twenty second, so she came to dinner.

249
00:12:21,761 --> 00:12:23,601
Speaker 2: We've had to go back and do these really fine

250
00:12:23,601 --> 00:12:26,001
Speaker 2: timelines and things that you don't really document, right if

251
00:12:26,001 --> 00:12:28,081
Speaker 2: someone's not missing, you're not writing down when you speak

252
00:12:28,121 --> 00:12:30,041
Speaker 2: to your mum or when she comes over for dinner.

253
00:12:30,681 --> 00:12:32,601
Speaker 2: But she requested to come and have dinner at our

254
00:12:32,641 --> 00:12:36,481
Speaker 2: house and requested that I cook her a roast. So

255
00:12:36,641 --> 00:12:39,361
Speaker 2: she brought her friend, Leslie Loveday, who was the lady

256
00:12:39,401 --> 00:12:42,641
Speaker 2: she was staying with at the time she'd sold the house.

257
00:12:42,921 --> 00:12:45,281
Speaker 2: She packed up and there was a window where she

258
00:12:45,481 --> 00:12:48,881
Speaker 2: wasn't quite ready to go yet, so instead of coming

259
00:12:48,921 --> 00:12:51,601
Speaker 2: to our house, we offered to let her come and

260
00:12:51,641 --> 00:12:54,201
Speaker 2: stay with us, of course, and we lived out the

261
00:12:54,201 --> 00:12:57,561
Speaker 2: back of Madhra barr in Talli and Leslie lived around

262
00:12:57,601 --> 00:13:00,321
Speaker 2: the corner from school at TSS, so it made sense

263
00:13:00,361 --> 00:13:02,121
Speaker 2: that she would stay with Leslie, and they used to

264
00:13:02,161 --> 00:13:04,761
Speaker 2: be neighbors and they were quite good friends, so Leslie

265
00:13:04,841 --> 00:13:05,721
Speaker 2: kind let.

266
00:13:05,601 --> 00:13:07,201
Speaker 1: Her stay with her for a few weeks.

267
00:13:07,441 --> 00:13:11,281
Speaker 2: During that time, Mum had, in that moment, changed a

268
00:13:11,281 --> 00:13:14,841
Speaker 2: couple of her accounts to come to Leslie's address care

269
00:13:14,881 --> 00:13:15,761
Speaker 2: of Leslie Loveday.

270
00:13:16,401 --> 00:13:18,001
Speaker 1: So she didn't do that to my place.

271
00:13:18,081 --> 00:13:21,641
Speaker 2: She did it to Leslie's which I grabbed a bundle

272
00:13:21,681 --> 00:13:24,241
Speaker 2: of mail from Leslie's house a little bit down the

273
00:13:24,281 --> 00:13:27,401
Speaker 2: track in nineteen ninety seven, which I still kept and

274
00:13:27,441 --> 00:13:31,241
Speaker 2: which has become quite important as the journey continued. But

275
00:13:31,441 --> 00:13:33,961
Speaker 2: they came and had a roast dinner, and we lived

276
00:13:34,001 --> 00:13:35,441
Speaker 2: in a cul de sac and we were on a

277
00:13:35,441 --> 00:13:38,481
Speaker 2: battle ax block at the back. So we walked them

278
00:13:38,561 --> 00:13:40,361
Speaker 2: up after dinner and she gave me a big hug.

279
00:13:40,841 --> 00:13:43,721
Speaker 2: She ac she gave me a painting of hers and

280
00:13:44,081 --> 00:13:47,121
Speaker 2: it's got pine trees, and she said to me that

281
00:13:47,321 --> 00:13:49,241
Speaker 2: night when we were walking down the corridor and I'd

282
00:13:49,241 --> 00:13:50,761
Speaker 2: had it on the wall, and she said, I want

283
00:13:50,761 --> 00:13:52,041
Speaker 2: you to think of me every time you used to

284
00:13:52,081 --> 00:13:55,961
Speaker 2: look at this painting. And something that's really bugged me

285
00:13:56,001 --> 00:13:58,561
Speaker 2: for life is that the police. I told the police

286
00:13:58,601 --> 00:14:01,681
Speaker 2: that and they wrote down that. Marian said, you can

287
00:14:01,761 --> 00:14:04,681
Speaker 2: think of me. This is where I'll be I said, no,

288
00:14:04,721 --> 00:14:06,641
Speaker 2: that's not what she said. She just said, you can

289
00:14:06,641 --> 00:14:08,201
Speaker 2: think of me. And at the time I was like,

290
00:14:08,241 --> 00:14:10,241
Speaker 2: you know, someone gives you a teddy bear, you.

291
00:14:10,201 --> 00:14:12,761
Speaker 1: Can think of me. That kind of notion was how

292
00:14:12,801 --> 00:14:13,201
Speaker 1: I took it.

293
00:14:13,881 --> 00:14:15,761
Speaker 2: But anyway, so that was on the Saturday night and

294
00:14:15,841 --> 00:14:18,681
Speaker 2: she flew out the next day. On Sunday, the twenty

295
00:14:18,721 --> 00:14:23,321
Speaker 2: second of June. Leslie drove her to Railway Parade and

296
00:14:23,361 --> 00:14:27,121
Speaker 2: Scarborough Street in Southport, where she caught a bus. They

297
00:14:27,121 --> 00:14:29,921
Speaker 2: were early, Leslie says, and they were laughing because mom

298
00:14:29,961 --> 00:14:31,081
Speaker 2: had so much luggage.

299
00:14:31,601 --> 00:14:33,801
Speaker 1: Leslie sort of said to us that, you know, she remembered.

300
00:14:34,041 --> 00:14:35,481
Speaker 2: I was sort of laughing so hard and they were

301
00:14:35,481 --> 00:14:44,881
Speaker 2: crying as she waved off and off she went. So

302
00:14:44,921 --> 00:14:48,241
Speaker 2: she went on the bus up to Brisbane International Airport

303
00:14:48,681 --> 00:14:52,721
Speaker 2: where she caught a Korean Air flight to South Korea.

304
00:14:53,241 --> 00:14:55,521
Speaker 2: And what I have learned through this journey is that

305
00:14:56,521 --> 00:14:59,121
Speaker 2: int Pole, when you're traveling in and out of Australia

306
00:14:59,161 --> 00:15:02,761
Speaker 2: or anywhere, they only record where you exit and when

307
00:15:02,801 --> 00:15:05,681
Speaker 2: you first stop. So regardless of where where you say

308
00:15:05,681 --> 00:15:08,881
Speaker 2: you're going, they only record you to your first destination.

309
00:15:09,521 --> 00:15:11,801
Speaker 2: So as far as they're concerns she went to South Korea,

310
00:15:12,321 --> 00:15:15,001
Speaker 2: and that's when it all goes a bit pair shaped.

311
00:15:15,761 --> 00:15:20,161
Speaker 2: She sent up postcards, she sent letters to everybody. I

312
00:15:20,201 --> 00:15:22,561
Speaker 2: got an eight page letter and it was written on

313
00:15:22,721 --> 00:15:26,761
Speaker 2: notepaper from a hotel in Japan called Hotel Niko Na Rita.

314
00:15:27,961 --> 00:15:33,121
Speaker 2: It's stamped from tom Bridge in the UK. So she's

315
00:15:33,121 --> 00:15:35,481
Speaker 2: picked up the paper and she's written on it and

316
00:15:35,521 --> 00:15:36,801
Speaker 2: posted it in tom Bridge.

317
00:15:37,001 --> 00:15:37,801
Speaker 1: Is my belief.

318
00:15:38,481 --> 00:15:42,961
Speaker 5: Dear Salan, Chris, Greetings from beautiful but very wet UK.

319
00:15:43,681 --> 00:15:47,281
Speaker 5: I finally arrived in England after a most interesting visit

320
00:15:47,321 --> 00:15:51,321
Speaker 5: to the East. Cloud is somewhat by far too much luggage.

321
00:15:54,121 --> 00:15:54,321
Speaker 4: Left.

322
00:15:54,321 --> 00:15:57,321
Speaker 5: But tell them both again thanks for me, love your heaps,

323
00:15:57,321 --> 00:16:01,681
Speaker 5: and don't worry about me, mum.

324
00:16:02,201 --> 00:16:06,921
Speaker 2: And it was quite a few weeks and she rang me.

325
00:16:07,601 --> 00:16:10,961
Speaker 2: Chris and I had just been down skiing at Threadbow

326
00:16:11,721 --> 00:16:13,521
Speaker 2: and we were on our way home when the thread

327
00:16:13,521 --> 00:16:14,041
Speaker 2: Boat has asked.

328
00:16:14,121 --> 00:16:16,601
Speaker 1: Happened just before midnight.

329
00:16:16,641 --> 00:16:19,681
Speaker 6: A freak landslide picked up a chalet, sweeping it onto

330
00:16:19,681 --> 00:16:23,161
Speaker 6: a lodge where senior Threadboat staff was sleeping. Witnesses it

331
00:16:23,201 --> 00:16:26,121
Speaker 6: screams for help from beneath the debris. In the hours

332
00:16:26,161 --> 00:16:28,041
Speaker 6: since then, silence.

333
00:16:27,961 --> 00:16:31,041
Speaker 2: It's quite a cold and forlorn scene here at the moment,

334
00:16:32,401 --> 00:16:33,281
Speaker 2: So I mean.

335
00:16:33,481 --> 00:16:34,441
Speaker 1: It was a long drive.

336
00:16:34,481 --> 00:16:37,041
Speaker 2: We broke it up and stayed at my Auntie's house,

337
00:16:37,121 --> 00:16:41,361
Speaker 2: my dad's sister who lived in Sydney, and we also

338
00:16:41,401 --> 00:16:43,001
Speaker 2: stayed with them on the way back, and stayed with

339
00:16:43,041 --> 00:16:46,681
Speaker 2: some friends as well. And on the way home we

340
00:16:46,801 --> 00:16:49,601
Speaker 2: went to Auntie Rob's place and I had a bridal

341
00:16:49,641 --> 00:16:52,441
Speaker 2: magazine was obviously I just got engaged, so I was

342
00:16:52,521 --> 00:16:55,881
Speaker 2: kind of excited about getting married and what we were

343
00:16:55,881 --> 00:16:59,401
Speaker 2: going to do, start planning those things. And the wedding

344
00:16:59,481 --> 00:17:02,001
Speaker 2: dress that I wanted was available at a shop in Parramatta.

345
00:17:02,281 --> 00:17:04,481
Speaker 2: So anyway, while we were in Sydney, I rang the

346
00:17:04,521 --> 00:17:06,680
Speaker 2: store and I said, do you have the dress? It

347
00:17:06,801 --> 00:17:10,400
Speaker 2: was called Diana, and that's kind of ironic because Lady

348
00:17:10,441 --> 00:17:12,321
Speaker 2: Diana died shortly after this.

349
00:17:12,640 --> 00:17:13,960
Speaker 1: Anyway, it was a beautiful dress and.

350
00:17:13,961 --> 00:17:17,281
Speaker 2: I went in there and Chris and I were pretty

351
00:17:17,281 --> 00:17:20,120
Speaker 2: poor at that point. We had just built a house

352
00:17:20,120 --> 00:17:23,321
Speaker 2: and we had no money, and the lady said to me,

353
00:17:23,640 --> 00:17:25,721
Speaker 2: and this kind of makes me sad when I think

354
00:17:25,721 --> 00:17:28,281
Speaker 2: about it, because I didn't have anyone with me to

355
00:17:28,360 --> 00:17:30,400
Speaker 2: try on my wedding dress. Chris was sitting in the

356
00:17:30,441 --> 00:17:32,600
Speaker 2: car downstairs and the our boot was packed to the

357
00:17:32,721 --> 00:17:36,440
Speaker 2: rafters and we left Dunnie Rob's house as we were

358
00:17:36,481 --> 00:17:39,241
Speaker 2: making our way home and we diverted past the shop

359
00:17:39,241 --> 00:17:41,761
Speaker 2: at Paramatta so I could go and try on the dress.

360
00:17:42,120 --> 00:17:43,880
Speaker 2: So other than the women who were in the shop

361
00:17:44,600 --> 00:17:46,240
Speaker 2: helping me get it on and looking at me, that

362
00:17:46,360 --> 00:17:49,201
Speaker 2: was it. And she said, if you come back tomorrow,

363
00:17:49,241 --> 00:17:51,080
Speaker 2: it's going to be on the sale and I said, well,

364
00:17:51,080 --> 00:17:53,521
Speaker 2: we're actually leaving to go back to the Gold Coast

365
00:17:53,721 --> 00:17:56,640
Speaker 2: right now, and so she asked her manager and they said,

366
00:17:56,640 --> 00:17:58,360
Speaker 2: we'll give it to you at the sale price. So

367
00:17:59,281 --> 00:18:01,201
Speaker 2: I think I got it fifty percent off the price,

368
00:18:01,201 --> 00:18:03,440
Speaker 2: which was amazing for me. I was jumping through hoops

369
00:18:03,441 --> 00:18:06,321
Speaker 2: and very excited. So I walked back downstairs with my

370
00:18:06,400 --> 00:18:09,281
Speaker 2: dress in a massive bag. It was a big dress too,

371
00:18:09,321 --> 00:18:11,001
Speaker 2: so tried to lay that in the back of the

372
00:18:11,041 --> 00:18:14,161
Speaker 2: car and Chris and I drove home. When we got

373
00:18:14,160 --> 00:18:17,680
Speaker 2: in the door, we had an answering machine and the

374
00:18:17,761 --> 00:18:20,080
Speaker 2: light was flashing, so I went and pressed the button

375
00:18:20,120 --> 00:18:23,641
Speaker 2: and it was Mum and she's like, HI, just heard

376
00:18:23,640 --> 00:18:26,041
Speaker 2: about the threadbir disaster. I was just ringing to check

377
00:18:26,080 --> 00:18:28,280
Speaker 2: at you and Chris were okay. She knew that we

378
00:18:28,281 --> 00:18:31,640
Speaker 2: were going away because we'd obviously booked it before she'd left.

379
00:18:31,801 --> 00:18:35,840
Speaker 2: So this was around the thirty first of July, first

380
00:18:35,921 --> 00:18:40,120
Speaker 2: of August. And then I was sad because I wanted

381
00:18:40,120 --> 00:18:41,960
Speaker 2: to tell her I'd just bought my wedding dress, Like

382
00:18:42,001 --> 00:18:44,880
Speaker 2: I really wanted to tell her that. And I was

383
00:18:44,921 --> 00:18:47,241
Speaker 2: really sad that she had rung and I'd missed her

384
00:18:47,681 --> 00:18:50,481
Speaker 2: because back in those days, we didn't have mobile phones. Well,

385
00:18:51,080 --> 00:18:53,281
Speaker 2: the very rare person had a mobile phone, right it

386
00:18:53,321 --> 00:18:55,801
Speaker 2: was a very new thing concept, and there was no

387
00:18:55,921 --> 00:18:59,080
Speaker 2: internet other than the dial up variety. Anyway, she called

388
00:18:59,120 --> 00:19:02,400
Speaker 2: me back and she said to me, I'm just having

389
00:19:02,441 --> 00:19:05,161
Speaker 2: tea with some little old ladies. I just wanted to

390
00:19:05,241 --> 00:19:07,840
Speaker 2: make sure you're okay. And that phone call was a

391
00:19:07,840 --> 00:19:09,841
Speaker 2: bit of a checklist for me, Like when I think

392
00:19:09,880 --> 00:19:11,881
Speaker 2: about it, she was like, did you take these back

393
00:19:11,921 --> 00:19:14,761
Speaker 2: to the school? She in Amongst her things that she'd

394
00:19:14,761 --> 00:19:17,920
Speaker 2: packed up and put up at Chris's grandparents place, she'd

395
00:19:18,041 --> 00:19:21,200
Speaker 2: put in some Teddy bears and some Russian dolls and

396
00:19:21,241 --> 00:19:24,001
Speaker 2: a set of kitchen scales. Although she weighing scales with

397
00:19:24,001 --> 00:19:25,561
Speaker 2: the little ways on them, and she used to use

398
00:19:25,600 --> 00:19:29,120
Speaker 2: them in math lesson and she said in the letter,

399
00:19:29,241 --> 00:19:31,960
Speaker 2: I bought a set, my own set into the class

400
00:19:31,961 --> 00:19:34,041
Speaker 2: and the boys broke it. So I bought another one.

401
00:19:34,360 --> 00:19:36,241
Speaker 2: And I can't remember if I use petty cash or

402
00:19:36,281 --> 00:19:39,801
Speaker 2: my own money. So just to save Luke Glover, who

403
00:19:39,880 --> 00:19:43,281
Speaker 2: was her boss, she says the word give him any ammunition,

404
00:19:44,241 --> 00:19:47,881
Speaker 2: which I think is an interesting phrase, and she said,

405
00:19:47,880 --> 00:19:50,241
Speaker 2: to avoid giving him any ammunition, can you just take

406
00:19:50,281 --> 00:19:52,321
Speaker 2: them back to the school. So this phone call was like,

407
00:19:52,400 --> 00:19:54,120
Speaker 2: did you take them back? Did you give them to

408
00:19:54,201 --> 00:19:57,640
Speaker 2: Jenny Hill, who was the teacher next door. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes,

409
00:19:58,080 --> 00:20:00,481
Speaker 2: And so this went on for a little bit. She

410
00:20:00,561 --> 00:20:02,721
Speaker 2: was paying at a phone box and the money kept

411
00:20:02,801 --> 00:20:06,120
Speaker 2: dropping out and the phone would disconnect, and I was

412
00:20:06,160 --> 00:20:07,920
Speaker 2: like half midway sentence in trying to.

413
00:20:07,921 --> 00:20:08,521
Speaker 1: Talk to her.

414
00:20:08,801 --> 00:20:11,880
Speaker 2: Anyway, she'd ring back, and this happened a few times

415
00:20:11,921 --> 00:20:13,401
Speaker 2: over and over, and I said to her, where are

416
00:20:13,481 --> 00:20:15,321
Speaker 2: you and I will call you back, And that's when

417
00:20:15,360 --> 00:20:16,680
Speaker 2: she said to me, oh, no, I'm just having some

418
00:20:16,721 --> 00:20:19,400
Speaker 2: tea with some of the old ladies. And you know,

419
00:20:19,481 --> 00:20:21,401
Speaker 2: it didn't really dawn on me. I didn't really think

420
00:20:21,400 --> 00:20:22,840
Speaker 2: too hard about it. I was like, I was just

421
00:20:22,880 --> 00:20:24,880
Speaker 2: excited to be talking to my mum. And anyway, she

422
00:20:24,961 --> 00:20:28,400
Speaker 2: rings back the last time and says, Okay, I'm just

423
00:20:28,441 --> 00:20:31,281
Speaker 2: gonna let you talk. You just talk until the phone

424
00:20:31,360 --> 00:20:32,921
Speaker 2: runs out, until I run out of my money, because

425
00:20:32,921 --> 00:20:35,321
Speaker 2: this is the last money I've got. And so I

426
00:20:35,441 --> 00:20:38,681
Speaker 2: was just telling her all about my wedding dress and

427
00:20:38,761 --> 00:20:41,360
Speaker 2: our trip away, and the phone cut out and that

428
00:20:41,441 --> 00:20:46,400
Speaker 2: was the last time I ever spoke to her. So interesting.

429
00:20:46,640 --> 00:20:48,360
Speaker 2: I was sort of just left it at that. She'd

430
00:20:48,360 --> 00:20:51,321
Speaker 2: told me that she'd postponed her trip on the Orient Express,

431
00:20:51,441 --> 00:20:54,441
Speaker 2: which is something she was really excited about doing. She'd

432
00:20:54,441 --> 00:20:56,840
Speaker 2: told people at school she was doing that, her friends

433
00:20:56,921 --> 00:20:58,841
Speaker 2: knew she was doing that, so that was a big

434
00:20:58,880 --> 00:21:02,480
Speaker 2: ticket item for her. So it surprised me that we

435
00:21:02,561 --> 00:21:07,041
Speaker 2: now know that never happened. And I wonder how that

436
00:21:07,120 --> 00:21:10,360
Speaker 2: all came about, and what was the modus operandi around

437
00:21:10,640 --> 00:21:14,401
Speaker 2: the whole Orient Express trip. I don't know if anyone's

438
00:21:14,441 --> 00:21:16,961
Speaker 2: ever googled how much a trip on the our own

439
00:21:17,001 --> 00:21:20,880
Speaker 2: Express is. It is super duper expensive, so it's a

440
00:21:20,880 --> 00:21:22,760
Speaker 2: big ticket item.

441
00:21:23,080 --> 00:21:27,721
Speaker 1: The moment you step aboard, everything changes.

442
00:21:32,160 --> 00:21:35,041
Speaker 2: So she had told me that she was going to

443
00:21:35,041 --> 00:21:38,200
Speaker 2: stop writing postcards to everybody because she was trying to

444
00:21:38,201 --> 00:21:40,880
Speaker 2: have a holiday. And I said to her, you don't

445
00:21:40,880 --> 00:21:43,400
Speaker 2: have to write postcards to everybody. You just go and

446
00:21:43,400 --> 00:21:46,001
Speaker 2: have a break, Like it's exhausting writing postcards and then

447
00:21:46,001 --> 00:21:48,361
Speaker 2: finding a stamp and then finding a postbox to put

448
00:21:48,400 --> 00:21:51,360
Speaker 2: it in while you're trying to have a holiday. But

449
00:21:51,761 --> 00:21:53,120
Speaker 2: she said, I'm going to have a break and so

450
00:21:53,160 --> 00:21:55,281
Speaker 2: don't worry about me. I'll be fine. And I wait,

451
00:21:55,400 --> 00:21:57,441
Speaker 2: no problem, go and have a holiday. We'll talk soon.

452
00:21:58,561 --> 00:22:02,001
Speaker 2: So that's around the first of August nineteen ninety seven,

453
00:22:02,400 --> 00:22:05,281
Speaker 2: and then a few weeks go past, and I I'm

454
00:22:05,321 --> 00:22:08,281
Speaker 2: starting to go, oh, it's sort of dawned on me.

455
00:22:08,400 --> 00:22:10,921
Speaker 2: I have no way of contacting my mum. I don't

456
00:22:10,961 --> 00:22:13,041
Speaker 2: know where she is, I don't know what hotel she's

457
00:22:13,041 --> 00:22:15,441
Speaker 2: staying at. I don't know how to call her because

458
00:22:15,481 --> 00:22:17,680
Speaker 2: there's no mobile phone, no text messages.

459
00:22:18,441 --> 00:22:20,561
Speaker 1: And I started to get a bit worried.

460
00:22:20,600 --> 00:22:22,440
Speaker 2: I was like, oh, I really want her to call me.

461
00:22:22,521 --> 00:22:26,361
Speaker 2: Like I started getting quite anxious. And my brother's birthday

462
00:22:26,481 --> 00:22:29,321
Speaker 2: was approaching in the October, and we're now talking, but

463
00:22:29,321 --> 00:22:30,480
Speaker 2: I don't know how many weeks that is.

464
00:22:30,481 --> 00:22:33,961
Speaker 1: What is that ten weeks his birthday was.

465
00:22:33,880 --> 00:22:36,241
Speaker 2: Coming up, and I was like, she'll definitely ring him,

466
00:22:36,281 --> 00:22:38,240
Speaker 2: like she never ever ever missed your birthday, and she

467
00:22:38,321 --> 00:22:41,400
Speaker 2: was massive on birthdays, so I was quite confident that

468
00:22:41,481 --> 00:22:44,640
Speaker 2: at that point she would contact Owen and we'd know

469
00:22:44,681 --> 00:22:46,440
Speaker 2: where she is and we know she's fine, and we

470
00:22:46,481 --> 00:22:47,680
Speaker 2: can talk to her and I can give her an

471
00:22:47,721 --> 00:22:49,601
Speaker 2: update on what I'm doing with the wedding and all

472
00:22:49,600 --> 00:22:53,521
Speaker 2: that sort of stuff. And I rang Owen and his

473
00:22:53,600 --> 00:22:56,120
Speaker 2: birthday that year was on a Saturday, so the eighteenth

474
00:22:56,160 --> 00:22:59,680
Speaker 2: of October nineteen ninety seven, and I rang him and

475
00:22:59,681 --> 00:23:00,921
Speaker 2: I said, did you hear from mum?

476
00:23:00,961 --> 00:23:01,561
Speaker 1: And he said no.

477
00:23:02,201 --> 00:23:04,921
Speaker 2: I said, okay, well that's a bit odd, don't you think,

478
00:23:05,241 --> 00:23:07,640
Speaker 2: And then we sort of must have talked about it.

479
00:23:07,681 --> 00:23:09,880
Speaker 2: I don't really remember the phone call that well, but

480
00:23:09,921 --> 00:23:13,360
Speaker 2: I remember talking to him, and I sort of thought

481
00:23:13,400 --> 00:23:14,801
Speaker 2: about it the next day and thought, well, there are

482
00:23:14,840 --> 00:23:16,960
Speaker 2: a day behind us in the UK, so maybe she

483
00:23:17,120 --> 00:23:19,481
Speaker 2: just got the date wrong and she'll bring him tomorrow.

484
00:23:19,640 --> 00:23:21,960
Speaker 2: So on Sunday I rang, I went again, did you

485
00:23:22,001 --> 00:23:24,801
Speaker 2: hear from mum? He said no? And I just spent

486
00:23:24,880 --> 00:23:27,521
Speaker 2: some thing's not right, that's too long now she hasn't

487
00:23:27,521 --> 00:23:29,200
Speaker 2: spoken to us for weeks. I haven't heard from her.

488
00:23:29,241 --> 00:23:33,160
Speaker 2: I haven't had a postcard. Something's wrong. And we had

489
00:23:33,160 --> 00:23:35,561
Speaker 2: a friend come over for dinner on the Sunday night.

490
00:23:35,681 --> 00:23:38,920
Speaker 2: Her name's Renee, and her husband played in a band.

491
00:23:39,201 --> 00:23:41,241
Speaker 2: Sometimes we go and see the boys play because we're

492
00:23:41,241 --> 00:23:44,600
Speaker 2: all friends, but sometimes if we didn't do that, Renee

493
00:23:44,640 --> 00:23:46,801
Speaker 2: would quite often come over for dinner. So she frequented

494
00:23:46,840 --> 00:23:49,801
Speaker 2: our house and we were talking about it at dinner

495
00:23:49,840 --> 00:23:51,880
Speaker 2: and I said, something's not right, like I'm worried. I

496
00:23:51,880 --> 00:23:53,720
Speaker 2: don't know how to contact mum. And she was the

497
00:23:53,721 --> 00:23:56,121
Speaker 2: one who suggested that I call the bank. She said,

498
00:23:56,120 --> 00:23:58,840
Speaker 2: you got your UM's bank account details. And the reason

499
00:23:58,880 --> 00:24:01,321
Speaker 2: I had those was because mum had left her car

500
00:24:01,441 --> 00:24:04,681
Speaker 2: with me and we were going to sell my car

501
00:24:04,801 --> 00:24:06,480
Speaker 2: and I was going to keep her car and I

502
00:24:06,521 --> 00:24:08,080
Speaker 2: was going to put the money from the sale of

503
00:24:08,080 --> 00:24:09,840
Speaker 2: my car into her bank account. That's why I had

504
00:24:09,880 --> 00:24:13,321
Speaker 2: the bank details. So I rang the bank. It was

505
00:24:13,321 --> 00:24:16,401
Speaker 2: a nighttime, so I've rung Teley Banking and I just said, Hi,

506
00:24:17,281 --> 00:24:21,041
Speaker 2: my mum's actually traveling overseas by herself, and she's missed

507
00:24:21,041 --> 00:24:24,201
Speaker 2: my brother's birthday and I'm actually concerned. Can you check

508
00:24:24,521 --> 00:24:27,000
Speaker 2: if she's using her account? And the woman said, I'm

509
00:24:27,041 --> 00:24:29,241
Speaker 2: really sorry. Due to privacy, I can't tell you anything.

510
00:24:29,921 --> 00:24:32,921
Speaker 2: And then she paused and she said, did you say

511
00:24:32,921 --> 00:24:35,400
Speaker 2: your mom's overseas and I said yes, and she said,

512
00:24:36,041 --> 00:24:38,041
Speaker 2: oh my god, there's money coming out of her bank

513
00:24:38,080 --> 00:24:41,680
Speaker 2: account and Barren Bay and I just I don't know

514
00:24:41,721 --> 00:24:43,920
Speaker 2: what I felt in that moment. I think I was

515
00:24:44,001 --> 00:24:48,561
Speaker 2: just incomplete shock and a wave of stress. She proceeded

516
00:24:48,600 --> 00:24:50,480
Speaker 2: to tell me that five thousand dollars was coming out

517
00:24:50,521 --> 00:24:53,441
Speaker 2: of her bank account every day and she was sort

518
00:24:53,441 --> 00:24:55,561
Speaker 2: of counting them as she was talking to me, and

519
00:24:55,921 --> 00:24:58,000
Speaker 2: my memories it was like three and a half weeks

520
00:24:58,360 --> 00:25:00,041
Speaker 2: of five thousand dollars every day.

521
00:25:00,201 --> 00:25:02,081
Speaker 1: And she said there's three days in.

522
00:25:02,041 --> 00:25:04,680
Speaker 2: The middle where the money came out in Burly Heads

523
00:25:04,721 --> 00:25:07,360
Speaker 2: on the God Coast and then back down in Byron

524
00:25:07,400 --> 00:25:10,240
Speaker 2: Bay again. And that threw me for six because we

525
00:25:10,281 --> 00:25:12,321
Speaker 2: lived only five minutes from Burley and I was like,

526
00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:14,561
Speaker 2: what do you mean there's money coming out? Why would

527
00:25:14,600 --> 00:25:17,600
Speaker 2: she be back in Australia. I was so confused, and

528
00:25:17,921 --> 00:25:21,120
Speaker 2: I was worried at that point that something had happened,

529
00:25:21,201 --> 00:25:22,241
Speaker 2: because that's not normal.

530
00:25:22,241 --> 00:25:23,241
Speaker 1: Behavior for my mum.

531
00:25:23,840 --> 00:25:27,081
Speaker 2: And the next day Chris and I, which was a Monday,

532
00:25:27,160 --> 00:25:31,480
Speaker 2: the twentieth of October, Chris and I drove to Byron

533
00:25:31,521 --> 00:25:34,801
Speaker 2: Bay and I took one of mum's portraits from her

534
00:25:34,801 --> 00:25:37,960
Speaker 2: school photos and we walked around the street. So we

535
00:25:38,001 --> 00:25:41,240
Speaker 2: went to the chemist, and we went to Woolworth. We

536
00:25:41,321 --> 00:25:44,161
Speaker 2: went to a naturopath and a health food shop, which

537
00:25:44,201 --> 00:25:46,761
Speaker 2: is something my mum would venture into just to see

538
00:25:46,761 --> 00:25:49,840
Speaker 2: if anybody recognized her. She's quite a recognizable person. She's

539
00:25:49,880 --> 00:25:52,281
Speaker 2: got an interesting look about her with a big black

540
00:25:52,281 --> 00:25:56,600
Speaker 2: wavy hair, and she's quite memorable with most people. No

541
00:25:56,681 --> 00:25:58,761
Speaker 2: one had seen her, and so we then went to

542
00:25:58,801 --> 00:26:02,120
Speaker 2: the bank and I walked in and I said to

543
00:26:02,201 --> 00:26:07,041
Speaker 2: the guy, my mum's supposed to be overseas and I've

544
00:26:07,120 --> 00:26:09,641
Speaker 2: just found out through your telebanking that money is coming

545
00:26:09,640 --> 00:26:12,321
Speaker 2: out of her bank account. Here, have you seen her?

546
00:26:13,080 --> 00:26:15,240
Speaker 2: And he picked up the photo and he shook it

547
00:26:15,840 --> 00:26:18,521
Speaker 2: and he said that rings a bell, and he walked

548
00:26:18,561 --> 00:26:20,960
Speaker 2: around the back. There was desks all behind him. He

549
00:26:21,001 --> 00:26:24,680
Speaker 2: walked around the back and went into an office and

550
00:26:24,721 --> 00:26:29,041
Speaker 2: it had manager on the door, and he came out

551
00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:32,041
Speaker 2: and he walked over to the photocopier and he took

552
00:26:32,041 --> 00:26:34,281
Speaker 2: a photocopy of the photo and he came over to

553
00:26:34,321 --> 00:26:35,840
Speaker 2: the desk and he said, what would you like me

554
00:26:35,880 --> 00:26:37,121
Speaker 2: to say to her if I see her?

555
00:26:38,281 --> 00:26:41,600
Speaker 1: And a WHOA, what's going on? Like, I don't know.

556
00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:43,681
Speaker 2: You can imagine being your twenty four year old trying

557
00:26:43,681 --> 00:26:45,481
Speaker 2: to work out my daughter, my eldest dough was twenty

558
00:26:45,481 --> 00:26:49,281
Speaker 2: four hour and she completely throws her for six. She's like,

559
00:26:49,321 --> 00:26:50,641
Speaker 2: I don't know what I would have done or how

560
00:26:50,640 --> 00:26:53,001
Speaker 2: I would have coped. Mum, Like, how did you even

561
00:26:53,041 --> 00:26:55,840
Speaker 2: do that? So Chris and I got back in the car.

562
00:26:55,880 --> 00:26:58,521
Speaker 2: We drove straight round to Buyron Bay. Police walked in.

563
00:26:59,160 --> 00:27:02,440
Speaker 2: We stood at the desk at the front. This is

564
00:27:02,600 --> 00:27:04,801
Speaker 2: all a bit hazy for me. My brain was probably

565
00:27:04,801 --> 00:27:06,600
Speaker 2: going a million miles an hour as to be trying

566
00:27:06,600 --> 00:27:08,881
Speaker 2: to process everything. But anyway, I spoke to a guy

567
00:27:09,481 --> 00:27:11,960
Speaker 2: and I told him everything that I knew and what

568
00:27:12,080 --> 00:27:15,601
Speaker 2: I had just found out, and he took the details

569
00:27:15,840 --> 00:27:19,160
Speaker 2: and we left and I in my mind, I was

570
00:27:19,201 --> 00:27:21,801
Speaker 2: reporting her as a missing person. She was missing to me.

571
00:27:22,360 --> 00:27:24,921
Speaker 2: I didn't know where she was. There was strange activity

572
00:27:24,921 --> 00:27:28,561
Speaker 2: on her account, and she didn't contact my brother, and

573
00:27:28,600 --> 00:27:29,960
Speaker 2: that was seriously out of character.

574
00:27:30,840 --> 00:27:33,601
Speaker 1: So we went home and then about a week.

575
00:27:33,521 --> 00:27:36,041
Speaker 2: Or ten days later, I received a phone call from

576
00:27:36,041 --> 00:27:40,640
Speaker 2: a gentleman and he said, we've located your mother. She

577
00:27:40,681 --> 00:27:42,281
Speaker 2: doesn't want anyone to know where she is or what

578
00:27:42,321 --> 00:27:46,041
Speaker 2: she's doing. And exactly those words like they are burnt

579
00:27:46,041 --> 00:27:50,521
Speaker 2: into my brain and I reflect back now as an older,

580
00:27:50,640 --> 00:27:53,801
Speaker 2: wiser woman, and I'm like, what the hell, like, how

581
00:27:53,840 --> 00:27:55,801
Speaker 2: did that happen? And how does someone speak to you

582
00:27:55,880 --> 00:28:00,001
Speaker 2: like that without actually giving you anything more. He told

583
00:28:00,001 --> 00:28:02,840
Speaker 2: me that she didn't want anyone to know what she

584
00:28:02,921 --> 00:28:06,400
Speaker 2: was doing. I was at Tafe actually during this period

585
00:28:06,441 --> 00:28:08,200
Speaker 2: of time, I was working full time and I was

586
00:28:08,201 --> 00:28:10,840
Speaker 2: going to Tafe at nighttime because I wanted to join

587
00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:15,400
Speaker 2: the ironically, the Queensland Police. Shame I didn't continue through

588
00:28:15,600 --> 00:28:17,401
Speaker 2: that because it might have helped me a little bit

589
00:28:17,441 --> 00:28:20,481
Speaker 2: in my journey. But I was at Taife trying to

590
00:28:20,481 --> 00:28:22,761
Speaker 2: get into the Queensland Police and one of my teachers

591
00:28:22,880 --> 00:28:23,761
Speaker 2: was a police officer.

592
00:28:24,360 --> 00:28:26,241
Speaker 1: And in my class I had a.

593
00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:28,921
Speaker 2: Lot of people who were already working in the space

594
00:28:28,961 --> 00:28:32,521
Speaker 2: of customs and in the jails and things like that,

595
00:28:32,561 --> 00:28:35,201
Speaker 2: who were trying to get into the cops. At the time,

596
00:28:35,360 --> 00:28:38,240
Speaker 2: and after I'd had that call, and they told me

597
00:28:38,321 --> 00:28:40,520
Speaker 2: that my mum had been located and she didn't want

598
00:28:40,561 --> 00:28:42,441
Speaker 2: anyone to know where she was or what she was doing,

599
00:28:42,441 --> 00:28:44,521
Speaker 2: and that was kind of it. That's where I was left.

600
00:28:45,241 --> 00:28:47,201
Speaker 2: I had a guy in my class who I knew

601
00:28:47,201 --> 00:28:50,841
Speaker 2: worked for customs, and I asked him if he could

602
00:28:50,881 --> 00:28:54,521
Speaker 2: do a passport check on mum. Now I didn't know

603
00:28:54,561 --> 00:28:56,841
Speaker 2: about the name change at this point, so I told

604
00:28:56,921 --> 00:29:00,041
Speaker 2: him Marion Barter, and I told him her date of birth,

605
00:29:00,881 --> 00:29:03,601
Speaker 2: and he came back to me and said her passport

606
00:29:03,641 --> 00:29:05,801
Speaker 2: came back and was on shore on the second of

607
00:29:05,841 --> 00:29:10,480
Speaker 2: August nineteen ninety seven. Now, if you remember, she called

608
00:29:10,481 --> 00:29:13,960
Speaker 2: me on the first of August, so she rang me,

609
00:29:14,041 --> 00:29:15,801
Speaker 2: telling me everything was fine and she was having a

610
00:29:15,801 --> 00:29:17,960
Speaker 2: great time, and she postponed a trip on the Your

611
00:29:18,001 --> 00:29:20,161
Speaker 2: Own Express, but not to worry about her. And then

612
00:29:20,161 --> 00:29:24,641
Speaker 2: her passport came back into the country the very next day.

613
00:29:24,961 --> 00:29:28,401
Speaker 2: That probably led police to believe and fed into their

614
00:29:28,521 --> 00:29:32,321
Speaker 2: narrative that she deliberately was trying to disappear herself because

615
00:29:32,321 --> 00:29:34,401
Speaker 2: she didn't contact me and she didn't tell me on

616
00:29:34,441 --> 00:29:36,281
Speaker 2: the phone that she was coming back into the country

617
00:29:36,281 --> 00:29:38,960
Speaker 2: the next day. So we got married the October the

618
00:29:38,961 --> 00:29:42,641
Speaker 2: following year. But then when she missed Iwin's birthday, that

619
00:29:42,721 --> 00:29:45,921
Speaker 2: was when the alarm bells came flying in for me.

620
00:29:46,641 --> 00:29:50,161
Speaker 2: So I went to my grandfather. He had bone cancer

621
00:29:50,201 --> 00:29:52,801
Speaker 2: and was not very well, but I went to him

622
00:29:52,801 --> 00:29:54,921
Speaker 2: and said, this is what they've said, and he goes, well,

623
00:29:54,921 --> 00:29:57,801
Speaker 2: I'm not satisfied with that. And he used to listen

624
00:29:57,841 --> 00:30:00,881
Speaker 2: to the ABC radio and the Salvation Army used to

625
00:30:00,921 --> 00:30:03,801
Speaker 2: come on there and do some talks for a missing

626
00:30:03,801 --> 00:30:07,681
Speaker 2: persons unit. So he actually contacted a lady named Betty

627
00:30:07,761 --> 00:30:12,601
Speaker 2: Brown from the Savos and they did an investigation in themselves.

628
00:30:13,321 --> 00:30:16,761
Speaker 2: And then we actually have the letters because my grandfather

629
00:30:16,841 --> 00:30:20,361
Speaker 2: kept them thankfully around the February of the following year.

630
00:30:20,401 --> 00:30:23,641
Speaker 2: So we're now into nineteen ninety eight, and the letter

631
00:30:23,681 --> 00:30:27,721
Speaker 2: pretty much says that police confirm that it was your

632
00:30:27,801 --> 00:30:31,641
Speaker 2: daughter Marion who went into the bank and withdrew eighty

633
00:30:31,761 --> 00:30:37,641
Speaker 2: thousand dollars and said that she was starting a new life,

634
00:30:37,801 --> 00:30:44,321
Speaker 2: and that it was confirmed by bank security. So my

635
00:30:44,401 --> 00:30:48,201
Speaker 2: grandparents then believed that my mum had actually chosen to leave.

636
00:30:48,481 --> 00:30:50,681
Speaker 2: We didn't know about her name change at this point.

637
00:30:51,161 --> 00:30:54,561
Speaker 2: The police had not looked into her movements coming in

638
00:30:54,601 --> 00:30:58,001
Speaker 2: and out of the country. They hadn't verified her passport.

639
00:30:59,001 --> 00:31:01,681
Speaker 2: None of that was done all the way back then.

640
00:31:02,361 --> 00:31:05,281
Speaker 2: And in my mind, if we'd actually found out that

641
00:31:05,321 --> 00:31:07,280
Speaker 2: she changed her name, we could have looked into that

642
00:31:07,361 --> 00:31:10,601
Speaker 2: a lot sooner and a lot deeper had we known

643
00:31:10,641 --> 00:31:13,001
Speaker 2: that in nineteen ninety seven when I reported her to

644
00:31:13,081 --> 00:31:16,641
Speaker 2: police as a missing person, that's kind of where my

645
00:31:16,721 --> 00:31:19,881
Speaker 2: journey begins as to what happened to my mum, and

646
00:31:19,961 --> 00:31:23,121
Speaker 2: then I had to Probably one of the hardest days

647
00:31:23,241 --> 00:31:26,041
Speaker 2: was for me October of that year.

648
00:31:26,441 --> 00:31:27,401
Speaker 1: I then got married.

649
00:31:27,801 --> 00:31:30,681
Speaker 2: Probably the hardest part of that day was we were

650
00:31:30,681 --> 00:31:32,440
Speaker 2: in a soft top car and I was with my

651
00:31:32,521 --> 00:31:35,240
Speaker 2: dad and we were driving up to the church and

652
00:31:35,281 --> 00:31:38,481
Speaker 2: we actually got married at TSS. And I had said

653
00:31:38,521 --> 00:31:41,401
Speaker 2: to Mum it was probably one of the last things

654
00:31:41,441 --> 00:31:44,401
Speaker 2: she did for me was I asked her if I

655
00:31:44,441 --> 00:31:47,001
Speaker 2: could get married in the chapel, and she said, I

656
00:31:47,081 --> 00:31:50,321
Speaker 2: have to ask permission. And she asked the principal and

657
00:31:50,441 --> 00:31:52,720
Speaker 2: she said to me, I said to him, I just

658
00:31:52,761 --> 00:31:54,960
Speaker 2: had one more favor to ask, and he said, anything

659
00:31:55,001 --> 00:31:57,401
Speaker 2: for you, Marian, And she said, Sally would like to

660
00:31:57,401 --> 00:31:59,321
Speaker 2: get married in the chapel and he said, no problem,

661
00:31:59,961 --> 00:32:04,240
Speaker 2: So Revstonia married Chris and I and I remember my

662
00:32:04,321 --> 00:32:06,001
Speaker 2: dad saying to me, because it's kind of like a

663
00:32:06,001 --> 00:32:08,481
Speaker 2: big windy path as you go up to the chapel

664
00:32:08,601 --> 00:32:11,241
Speaker 2: inside the school grounds, the roofs off.

665
00:32:11,721 --> 00:32:13,681
Speaker 1: My brother in law's driving the car.

666
00:32:13,601 --> 00:32:15,961
Speaker 2: Scott, and my dad says to me, keep an eye

667
00:32:15,961 --> 00:32:18,361
Speaker 2: out for your mother. I'm sure she'll be here, And

668
00:32:18,361 --> 00:32:21,440
Speaker 2: it kind of broke me just before I was about

669
00:32:21,481 --> 00:32:25,521
Speaker 2: to walk down the aisle, and that was kind of sad,

670
00:32:25,801 --> 00:32:28,481
Speaker 2: sad day, and then the sad days continued from there.

671
00:32:28,961 --> 00:32:31,361
Speaker 2: Chris and I had our first child after we got married,

672
00:32:31,841 --> 00:32:34,641
Speaker 2: so Ella was born in two thousand and one, so

673
00:32:34,681 --> 00:32:37,480
Speaker 2: she's the same age today as I was when my

674
00:32:37,521 --> 00:32:38,241
Speaker 2: mom went missing.

675
00:32:38,881 --> 00:32:40,681
Speaker 1: And I'm the same age my mom was.

676
00:32:40,721 --> 00:32:43,761
Speaker 2: When she disappeared. So it's kind of done a full

677
00:32:43,801 --> 00:32:45,881
Speaker 2: circle in our family, and we have no answers and

678
00:32:45,921 --> 00:32:49,161
Speaker 2: we have no resolution yet, so hence my push and

679
00:32:49,241 --> 00:32:58,841
Speaker 2: drive to keep on going. Well, the person who called

680
00:32:58,881 --> 00:33:02,321
Speaker 2: me I interpreted as the police officer that I spoke

681
00:33:02,361 --> 00:33:04,561
Speaker 2: to at the desk, so if anyone asked me, it

682
00:33:04,601 --> 00:33:07,521
Speaker 2: was him. But you know, foolishly I didn't get a

683
00:33:07,521 --> 00:33:10,361
Speaker 2: business card from him. I didn't take down his name.

684
00:33:10,521 --> 00:33:12,761
Speaker 2: I didn't even feel in a statement. He didn't give

685
00:33:12,801 --> 00:33:15,281
Speaker 2: me a copy of anything. He just wrote down some

686
00:33:15,361 --> 00:33:17,641
Speaker 2: notes in his notebook. So when I get that call

687
00:33:17,681 --> 00:33:20,761
Speaker 2: like back later, that was a shocking thing to hear,

688
00:33:21,201 --> 00:33:23,161
Speaker 2: because you just don't know what's happened.

689
00:33:23,361 --> 00:33:24,881
Speaker 1: You don't know how to feel about that.

690
00:33:25,601 --> 00:33:29,241
Speaker 2: I had mum's sister, one of them, she's got three sisters,

691
00:33:29,281 --> 00:33:31,881
Speaker 2: she's the eldest, and one of them had a crack

692
00:33:31,921 --> 00:33:33,601
Speaker 2: at me and said, what the hell do you think

693
00:33:33,641 --> 00:33:36,281
Speaker 2: you're doing listing or as a missing person? And was

694
00:33:36,321 --> 00:33:39,881
Speaker 2: angry at my grandfather for, you know, going along with

695
00:33:39,881 --> 00:33:43,681
Speaker 2: what my thoughts were in this scenario. And she said,

696
00:33:43,681 --> 00:33:45,321
Speaker 2: she's just having a holiday, why would you go on

697
00:33:45,361 --> 00:33:49,041
Speaker 2: list her as missing? And to me, they were older

698
00:33:49,081 --> 00:33:52,401
Speaker 2: than me, they knew better, and I listened to what

699
00:33:52,441 --> 00:33:55,760
Speaker 2: they said, so I sort of just went, Okay, I'll

700
00:33:55,841 --> 00:33:58,200
Speaker 2: let Papa deal with it, because he's the person in

701
00:33:58,321 --> 00:34:00,401
Speaker 2: charge of this in my opinion. But he was sick

702
00:34:00,521 --> 00:34:02,241
Speaker 2: and he was the only person who would talk to

703
00:34:02,321 --> 00:34:04,561
Speaker 2: me about it. My grandmother wouldn't talk to me, none

704
00:34:04,601 --> 00:34:06,681
Speaker 2: of Them's just as we talk about it, it was

705
00:34:06,721 --> 00:34:09,041
Speaker 2: like put your head in the sand, it'll all go away.

706
00:34:09,441 --> 00:34:13,561
Speaker 2: So that was quite challenging. And we had Ella in

707
00:34:13,641 --> 00:34:18,241
Speaker 2: the July of two thousand and one and we took

708
00:34:18,281 --> 00:34:20,841
Speaker 2: her down to Sydney in the December. She met my

709
00:34:20,921 --> 00:34:25,801
Speaker 2: dad for the first time and his partner, and she

710
00:34:25,961 --> 00:34:30,881
Speaker 2: met Owen and his partner as well. And my world

711
00:34:30,921 --> 00:34:34,041
Speaker 2: shattered the following year on the seventh of March two

712
00:34:34,041 --> 00:34:37,441
Speaker 2: thousand and two, when I got a call from my dad.

713
00:34:37,601 --> 00:34:40,081
Speaker 1: At about twenty past ten at nighttime.

714
00:34:40,121 --> 00:34:42,960
Speaker 2: I just finished breastfeeding Ella and put her down, and

715
00:34:43,241 --> 00:34:47,761
Speaker 2: he said that Owen had killed himself and that the

716
00:34:47,801 --> 00:34:49,121
Speaker 2: police were at the door and he had to go

717
00:34:49,161 --> 00:34:53,601
Speaker 2: down and identify the body the morgue. And I was

718
00:34:53,641 --> 00:34:57,241
Speaker 2: in Queensland, so I felt really helpless at that point.

719
00:34:57,441 --> 00:34:59,801
Speaker 2: And I only had one sibling, so he was it.

720
00:35:00,641 --> 00:35:04,001
Speaker 2: And he and I growing up were like twins. Everyone

721
00:35:04,041 --> 00:35:06,440
Speaker 2: thought we were twins because we were only seventeen months

722
00:35:06,441 --> 00:35:09,841
Speaker 2: apart and looked quite similar. And I was a tomboy,

723
00:35:09,961 --> 00:35:12,041
Speaker 2: so I was happy to get on my BMX bike

724
00:35:12,121 --> 00:35:13,681
Speaker 2: and go riding with all the boys and hang out

725
00:35:13,721 --> 00:35:17,081
Speaker 2: with the boys. So yeah, that broke my heart completely

726
00:35:17,081 --> 00:35:19,721
Speaker 2: into a million pieces, and we had to.

727
00:35:19,681 --> 00:35:20,561
Speaker 1: Deal with that as well.

728
00:35:20,881 --> 00:35:24,121
Speaker 2: And you know, I remember going to the funeral and

729
00:35:24,641 --> 00:35:25,961
Speaker 2: there was a lot of people.

730
00:35:25,761 --> 00:35:28,121
Speaker 1: At the funeral. He was a very well liked person.

731
00:35:28,641 --> 00:35:32,281
Speaker 2: People were sort of outside looking through the windows at

732
00:35:32,321 --> 00:35:34,561
Speaker 2: this funeral. And I remember when I rocked up, my

733
00:35:34,641 --> 00:35:38,921
Speaker 2: dad said here she is, My girl's here, and he said,

734
00:35:39,081 --> 00:35:41,241
Speaker 2: your mother should be here. I shouldn't be doing this

735
00:35:41,281 --> 00:35:45,440
Speaker 2: by myself. And so the language that was said to

736
00:35:45,521 --> 00:35:48,241
Speaker 2: us in that phone call and then again by Betty

737
00:35:48,321 --> 00:35:52,881
Speaker 2: Brown in her letter to grand and Papa just led

738
00:35:53,001 --> 00:35:55,561
Speaker 2: us to believe that she had gone missing on her

739
00:35:55,561 --> 00:35:58,801
Speaker 2: own account. And everyone believed it. Everyone thought that was

740
00:35:58,881 --> 00:36:02,481
Speaker 2: how it was. But me, I was like, something's wrong.

741
00:36:02,561 --> 00:36:05,281
Speaker 2: She would not miss my wedding, she would not miss

742
00:36:05,321 --> 00:36:09,121
Speaker 2: me having a baby. She loved kids, and there is

743
00:36:09,201 --> 00:36:12,161
Speaker 2: just not a chance. So I just always knew something

744
00:36:12,281 --> 00:36:14,440
Speaker 2: was wrong. But I felt like I was being sort

745
00:36:14,481 --> 00:36:17,681
Speaker 2: of handballed to the side. You just sit here and

746
00:36:17,721 --> 00:36:20,441
Speaker 2: park it here, sister, We're not interested, but let it be.

747
00:36:21,321 --> 00:36:24,801
Speaker 2: And so it wasn't until two thousand and seven. It

748
00:36:24,881 --> 00:36:28,481
Speaker 2: was January and I was pregnant with our third baby,

749
00:36:28,801 --> 00:36:32,481
Speaker 2: so our son, and I was due.

750
00:36:32,281 --> 00:36:33,361
Speaker 1: To have him in June.

751
00:36:34,001 --> 00:36:37,361
Speaker 2: So I was in the second trimester of my pregnancy

752
00:36:37,561 --> 00:36:40,521
Speaker 2: and my girlfriend Nina was over and I just said

753
00:36:40,521 --> 00:36:41,881
Speaker 2: to her, do you reckon you could help me with

754
00:36:41,921 --> 00:36:44,041
Speaker 2: the kids, just for like twenty minutes. I'm just going

755
00:36:44,081 --> 00:36:47,601
Speaker 2: to make a phone call. And I rang the AFP,

756
00:36:48,081 --> 00:36:49,921
Speaker 2: so I was getting nowhere. I had no contact at

757
00:36:49,921 --> 00:36:51,841
Speaker 2: the New Southwest Police. I didn't know who was on

758
00:36:51,881 --> 00:36:54,161
Speaker 2: the case. I didn't know what oh I see meant.

759
00:36:54,801 --> 00:36:57,201
Speaker 2: I didn't have a number to call. I had no

760
00:36:58,081 --> 00:37:02,161
Speaker 2: compassion or empathy or care given to me. It was like, oh, well,

761
00:37:02,801 --> 00:37:04,721
Speaker 2: she'll be right, mate, move on with your life.

762
00:37:05,241 --> 00:37:06,641
Speaker 1: Disappeared on her own account.

763
00:37:06,921 --> 00:37:10,041
Speaker 2: So I made the phone call and I the phone

764
00:37:10,081 --> 00:37:13,441
Speaker 2: was answered by a lady named Rebecca cotts Beck, and

765
00:37:13,481 --> 00:37:15,401
Speaker 2: I chatted for quite a while.

766
00:37:15,681 --> 00:37:16,961
Speaker 1: I think that phone call went.

767
00:37:16,801 --> 00:37:19,681
Speaker 2: For about two hours, and I was telling her everything

768
00:37:20,081 --> 00:37:23,881
Speaker 2: that had happened. And she was the first person I

769
00:37:23,921 --> 00:37:26,481
Speaker 2: reckon outside of my family and friends, who showed me

770
00:37:26,521 --> 00:37:30,161
Speaker 2: empathy and care and understanding and just an ear and

771
00:37:30,201 --> 00:37:34,801
Speaker 2: listening to me. And she offered to come up and

772
00:37:34,881 --> 00:37:38,641
Speaker 2: visit me from Canberra, and so she came and met me,

773
00:37:38,761 --> 00:37:41,281
Speaker 2: took me out for lunch. We went just down in Tenereefe,

774
00:37:41,281 --> 00:37:44,041
Speaker 2: actually local to here, and she said to me, I've

775
00:37:44,041 --> 00:37:47,321
Speaker 2: spoken to my bosses and we'd like to ask you

776
00:37:47,361 --> 00:37:49,881
Speaker 2: to be the face of missing Persons this year. We

777
00:37:49,921 --> 00:37:52,041
Speaker 2: think it'd be a really good opportunity for you to

778
00:37:52,721 --> 00:37:55,361
Speaker 2: get your mum's story out there in the media. It's

779
00:37:55,361 --> 00:37:58,321
Speaker 2: a really great exposure, and we just think your detail

780
00:37:58,521 --> 00:38:00,761
Speaker 2: and your attention to detail and what you've remembered and

781
00:38:00,801 --> 00:38:02,881
Speaker 2: everything you have is really great and we'd really love

782
00:38:02,961 --> 00:38:05,601
Speaker 2: to be able to help you with that, to which

783
00:38:05,641 --> 00:38:08,641
Speaker 2: I was really excited about because up until then I'd

784
00:38:08,681 --> 00:38:11,841
Speaker 2: had nothing. When I say nothing, I just had had

785
00:38:11,881 --> 00:38:15,041
Speaker 2: no support and I had no media. I think in

786
00:38:15,081 --> 00:38:18,241
Speaker 2: two thousand and four, Women's Day did a short article

787
00:38:18,281 --> 00:38:21,241
Speaker 2: about me and a couple of other mums who were missing,

788
00:38:21,441 --> 00:38:24,321
Speaker 2: so this family stories about missing mums on Mother's Day.

789
00:38:24,881 --> 00:38:26,401
Speaker 2: I remember that was a two thousand and four because

790
00:38:26,401 --> 00:38:29,281
Speaker 2: I was pregnant with Darcy, my second baby, when we

791
00:38:29,361 --> 00:38:33,041
Speaker 2: had that photo shoot, and I remember, actually, I've got

792
00:38:33,041 --> 00:38:35,321
Speaker 2: Ella sitting on my lap in the photo, and my

793
00:38:35,401 --> 00:38:38,121
Speaker 2: husband was really worried about putting Ella in the magazine,

794
00:38:38,721 --> 00:38:41,281
Speaker 2: and I remember saying to him, if mum sees it,

795
00:38:41,521 --> 00:38:43,761
Speaker 2: she needs to see she has a granddaughter, like she'll

796
00:38:43,761 --> 00:38:46,841
Speaker 2: come back. Like I was in such a spin, like

797
00:38:46,881 --> 00:38:49,561
Speaker 2: I really didn't know what to think or what to believe.

798
00:38:50,241 --> 00:38:53,081
Speaker 2: You know, my grandfather died shortly after that, actually, so

799
00:38:53,321 --> 00:38:57,521
Speaker 2: I lost my only solid person who was helping me

800
00:38:57,561 --> 00:39:00,761
Speaker 2: and believed that maybe something was not quite right. He'd

801
00:39:00,801 --> 00:39:03,241
Speaker 2: gone as well. So anyway, so it's a couple of

802
00:39:03,281 --> 00:39:06,401
Speaker 2: years later that I've met Beck. It's mom's tenth anniversary.

803
00:39:06,441 --> 00:39:08,721
Speaker 2: So that year it was like she's been gone ten years,

804
00:39:08,921 --> 00:39:12,721
Speaker 2: and who's doing something about this because there's nothing. Everyone's

805
00:39:12,801 --> 00:39:15,001
Speaker 2: just sort of forgotten about her, and I can't even

806
00:39:15,041 --> 00:39:16,801
Speaker 2: talk about her. I can't even mention her name in

807
00:39:16,841 --> 00:39:20,521
Speaker 2: her own mother's house. It's like a taboo subject. So

808
00:39:20,601 --> 00:39:22,761
Speaker 2: Beck was just amazing. She was a great person and

809
00:39:22,801 --> 00:39:25,681
Speaker 2: we actually ended up becoming very good friends. She sadly

810
00:39:25,721 --> 00:39:27,921
Speaker 2: died of cancer a couple of years ago after a

811
00:39:27,921 --> 00:39:32,961
Speaker 2: really tough battle. So after our first encounter in the January,

812
00:39:33,161 --> 00:39:35,721
Speaker 2: I then worked for pretty much the next six months

813
00:39:35,761 --> 00:39:38,761
Speaker 2: planning on going down and being the face of missing person.

814
00:39:38,881 --> 00:39:41,841
Speaker 2: She told me that they'll fly me to Melbourne and

815
00:39:41,841 --> 00:39:44,361
Speaker 2: flying me to Sydney and will bounce around the country

816
00:39:44,561 --> 00:39:47,721
Speaker 2: for that week, doing all these interviews and plugging Missing

817
00:39:47,761 --> 00:39:51,601
Speaker 2: Person's Week. And I said, well, Caleb's going to be born,

818
00:39:52,001 --> 00:39:54,401
Speaker 2: which he was on the nineteenth of June, and Missing

819
00:39:54,401 --> 00:39:56,681
Speaker 2: Person's Week is like around the first of August.

820
00:39:57,361 --> 00:40:00,161
Speaker 1: So I'm madly storing my breast milk and.

821
00:40:00,121 --> 00:40:02,761
Speaker 2: I'm getting prepared, and Chris is organizing to take time

822
00:40:02,801 --> 00:40:06,721
Speaker 2: off work and we get a call for her I

823
00:40:06,801 --> 00:40:09,161
Speaker 2: don't know. A couple of days before we were do

824
00:40:09,161 --> 00:40:11,961
Speaker 2: you to fly down? And she said to me, I'm

825
00:40:11,961 --> 00:40:15,201
Speaker 2: so sorry, but they've pulled you. They're not going to

826
00:40:15,241 --> 00:40:17,201
Speaker 2: let you do it. And I said, who's not going

827
00:40:17,281 --> 00:40:18,440
Speaker 2: to let me do it? And she said New South

828
00:40:18,481 --> 00:40:22,641
Speaker 2: We was police, and they've told us that because this

829
00:40:22,721 --> 00:40:27,681
Speaker 2: year is about mental health and people missing with mental health,

830
00:40:28,681 --> 00:40:31,601
Speaker 2: that we can't use your story. We can't use Marian's

831
00:40:31,601 --> 00:40:35,441
Speaker 2: story because she didn't have mental health issues. I'm really sorry.

832
00:40:36,081 --> 00:40:38,081
Speaker 2: And I was crushed. I was like, oh my god,

833
00:40:38,121 --> 00:40:40,681
Speaker 2: I've just had a baby. I've had my third cesarean.

834
00:40:41,281 --> 00:40:43,481
Speaker 2: I'm storing my breast milk so I can come and

835
00:40:43,521 --> 00:40:46,641
Speaker 2: do these interviews for Missing Person's Week and make awareness

836
00:40:46,641 --> 00:40:51,441
Speaker 2: and help. Someone knows something about my mum. She's someone's neighbor,

837
00:40:51,641 --> 00:40:54,521
Speaker 2: she's buying milk from somewhere. If she's alive and well,

838
00:40:54,561 --> 00:40:57,521
Speaker 2: like they all kept telling me she was, someone had

839
00:40:57,521 --> 00:40:58,801
Speaker 2: to know where she was and they had to be

840
00:40:58,841 --> 00:41:01,321
Speaker 2: some digital footprint of her, which there just was not.

841
00:41:02,241 --> 00:41:04,761
Speaker 2: So I was eager to get out there and do something.

842
00:41:04,841 --> 00:41:07,201
Speaker 2: But you know, you're in that realm, right like you

843
00:41:07,241 --> 00:41:09,841
Speaker 2: think about my life. My mum's just gone missing. I

844
00:41:09,881 --> 00:41:12,601
Speaker 2: get married the following year. I then have three babies,

845
00:41:12,641 --> 00:41:16,081
Speaker 2: We build a house, we move from the Gold Coast

846
00:41:16,121 --> 00:41:16,641
Speaker 2: to Brisbane.

847
00:41:16,681 --> 00:41:18,201
Speaker 1: I have to reset up my business.

848
00:41:18,881 --> 00:41:22,081
Speaker 2: Very very busy time of life for us, and very stressful.

849
00:41:22,121 --> 00:41:24,321
Speaker 2: You know, my brother died, my grandfather died. They were

850
00:41:24,361 --> 00:41:27,201
Speaker 2: my two key people in my camp. And you know,

851
00:41:27,881 --> 00:41:32,521
Speaker 2: awful circumstances, really awful circumstances. So Rebecca says to me,

852
00:41:32,881 --> 00:41:35,241
Speaker 2: we've already booked your flight, so you most will still come.

853
00:41:35,561 --> 00:41:37,601
Speaker 2: Just come and you can sit in the audience. So

854
00:41:38,401 --> 00:41:41,801
Speaker 2: I remember sitting in the audience and the lady who

855
00:41:41,881 --> 00:41:45,241
Speaker 2: was talking, who was then chosen to be the Missing

856
00:41:45,281 --> 00:41:49,641
Speaker 2: Person feature for that year, her brother had been missing

857
00:41:49,641 --> 00:41:52,721
Speaker 2: for a week, and I remember going, I know what

858
00:41:52,761 --> 00:41:57,081
Speaker 2: that feels like, like missing for an hour is absolutely

859
00:41:57,641 --> 00:42:00,681
Speaker 2: gut wrenching. But I was sitting in the audience, going, oh,

860
00:42:01,201 --> 00:42:03,681
Speaker 2: I don't know how I feel about this. I shouldn't

861
00:42:03,681 --> 00:42:06,001
Speaker 2: feel sad that I'm not on the stage, and that

862
00:42:06,041 --> 00:42:08,561
Speaker 2: her brother needs to be found as well, and he

863
00:42:08,601 --> 00:42:13,401
Speaker 2: did have mental health problems. But after the whole conference

864
00:42:13,521 --> 00:42:16,601
Speaker 2: was finished, I went outside with Rebecca and the police

865
00:42:16,641 --> 00:42:20,001
Speaker 2: commissioner was there and she introduced me, and he said

866
00:42:20,001 --> 00:42:23,161
Speaker 2: to me, oh, well, Sally, I don't know where my

867
00:42:23,201 --> 00:42:25,881
Speaker 2: brother is. He's missing as well. And you know, some

868
00:42:25,881 --> 00:42:28,961
Speaker 2: people just choose to go missing, and you know that's okay.

869
00:42:29,161 --> 00:42:33,041
Speaker 2: The people are allowed to go missing. And I went, right, okay,

870
00:42:33,041 --> 00:42:35,361
Speaker 2: and he goes, well, my mum knows where he is,

871
00:42:35,401 --> 00:42:37,161
Speaker 2: but none of us know. He won't tell any of

872
00:42:37,241 --> 00:42:38,801
Speaker 2: us where we are. And I went, so, he's not

873
00:42:39,121 --> 00:42:41,201
Speaker 2: really missing in this true sense of the word, then

874
00:42:41,281 --> 00:42:44,041
Speaker 2: is he if your mother knows where he is. And

875
00:42:44,081 --> 00:42:46,881
Speaker 2: it was just such a degrading conversation. I was like,

876
00:42:46,961 --> 00:42:51,241
Speaker 2: you've really just ignoring every element of what I'm actually

877
00:42:51,561 --> 00:42:55,161
Speaker 2: dealing with right this second from someone who's living with

878
00:42:55,241 --> 00:42:57,681
Speaker 2: the ambiguity of not knowing what's happened to my mum.

879
00:42:58,281 --> 00:43:00,641
Speaker 2: So no, no one knows where my mum is. No

880
00:43:00,681 --> 00:43:03,121
Speaker 2: one has spoken to her that we know. She's in

881
00:43:03,121 --> 00:43:05,960
Speaker 2: the true sense of the word, a missing person. So

882
00:43:06,241 --> 00:43:10,241
Speaker 2: that was at the tenth anniversary, and that took all

883
00:43:10,321 --> 00:43:13,081
Speaker 2: my energy and a lot of wind out of my sales,

884
00:43:13,641 --> 00:43:15,841
Speaker 2: as you can probably appreciate going through what I had

885
00:43:15,841 --> 00:43:18,801
Speaker 2: to go through. And then from that moment, and this

886
00:43:18,881 --> 00:43:22,681
Speaker 2: is interesting, from that moment onwards, the police started to

887
00:43:22,761 --> 00:43:26,081
Speaker 2: dabble back in it again. So we now had Mum's

888
00:43:26,081 --> 00:43:29,921
Speaker 2: case sitting with the New South Wales Missing Person's Unit,

889
00:43:30,801 --> 00:43:33,641
Speaker 2: and Steve McAllister was the guy.

890
00:43:33,481 --> 00:43:34,401
Speaker 1: That I was talking to.

891
00:43:34,921 --> 00:43:37,881
Speaker 2: He rang me while I was at my grandparents' house

892
00:43:38,481 --> 00:43:42,281
Speaker 2: and he asked me lots of questions in that phone call,

893
00:43:42,361 --> 00:43:45,401
Speaker 2: and one of them was what's her date of birth?

894
00:43:45,841 --> 00:43:49,121
Speaker 2: What's her hair color? Tell me a little bit about her.

895
00:43:49,681 --> 00:43:51,721
Speaker 2: And I was like, surely you would have all of

896
00:43:51,761 --> 00:43:55,441
Speaker 2: this information, right, like, surely you know she has black

897
00:43:55,481 --> 00:44:01,641
Speaker 2: hair and green hazel eyes. Nope, had nothing. And I

898
00:44:01,681 --> 00:44:03,921
Speaker 2: said to him at that point, and this is actually

899
00:44:03,921 --> 00:44:06,721
Speaker 2: all been recorded because I wrote an email back to

900
00:44:06,801 --> 00:44:12,601
Speaker 2: him telling him about my questions, I'm concerned that you've

901
00:44:12,601 --> 00:44:16,121
Speaker 2: asked this, I'm concerned that you've said this, And then

902
00:44:16,161 --> 00:44:18,281
Speaker 2: I actually say in it, I would like to see

903
00:44:18,321 --> 00:44:22,081
Speaker 2: the original file from when I came to the police

904
00:44:22,801 --> 00:44:25,961
Speaker 2: back in October nineteen ninety seven and reported my mum missing.

905
00:44:26,241 --> 00:44:27,841
Speaker 2: And I said, I want to know who the person

906
00:44:28,001 --> 00:44:31,161
Speaker 2: was who took that report because I didn't get his card,

907
00:44:31,201 --> 00:44:33,321
Speaker 2: I don't know his name, I can't remember his name,

908
00:44:34,001 --> 00:44:36,001
Speaker 2: and they couldn't answer those questions.

909
00:44:36,081 --> 00:44:38,481
Speaker 1: And he's like, they've lost the file, and.

910
00:44:38,441 --> 00:44:42,281
Speaker 2: I was like, what do you mean, they've lost the file?

911
00:44:43,561 --> 00:44:48,281
Speaker 2: So my frustrations started to grow quite heavily at.

912
00:44:48,121 --> 00:44:49,801
Speaker 1: That point with the police.

913
00:44:50,081 --> 00:44:52,961
Speaker 2: As part of our investigation, I came across a piece

914
00:44:53,001 --> 00:44:56,681
Speaker 2: of paper. On it I saw her passport photo the

915
00:44:56,721 --> 00:44:58,961
Speaker 2: front and the back, and it had this is a

916
00:44:59,001 --> 00:45:05,001
Speaker 2: true photo of Flora Bella Ramicel. It had her outcome

917
00:45:05,041 --> 00:45:08,921
Speaker 2: going passenger card. I just remember like seeing lots of things.

918
00:45:08,961 --> 00:45:14,481
Speaker 2: I remember looking Luxembourg three days, which actually turned out

919
00:45:14,521 --> 00:45:16,681
Speaker 2: to be eight days. But in the flash of trying

920
00:45:16,681 --> 00:45:19,641
Speaker 2: to see something in a short space of time, it

921
00:45:20,441 --> 00:45:22,121
Speaker 2: was quite confronting for me.

922
00:45:22,521 --> 00:45:24,520
Speaker 1: And at the very top of the page there.

923
00:45:24,441 --> 00:45:26,801
Speaker 2: Was lots of asterisks and arrows and things like that,

924
00:45:27,281 --> 00:45:30,921
Speaker 2: but it had mums' names, so it had all her

925
00:45:31,001 --> 00:45:34,480
Speaker 2: names from when she first was like Maryan Wilson, which

926
00:45:34,521 --> 00:45:35,361
Speaker 2: was her maiden name.

927
00:45:36,121 --> 00:45:38,520
Speaker 1: She married John Warren who was a big SoC star.

928
00:45:38,601 --> 00:45:41,081
Speaker 2: I was the captain of the Strain Soccaroos in the

929
00:45:41,161 --> 00:45:44,121
Speaker 2: sixties and seventies and that was her first husband, so

930
00:45:44,161 --> 00:45:45,201
Speaker 2: she was Marying Warren.

931
00:45:45,281 --> 00:45:48,441
Speaker 1: She doesn't have a middle name, so that.

932
00:45:48,321 --> 00:45:51,161
Speaker 2: Made things quite difficult as well when we're doing searches

933
00:45:51,201 --> 00:45:51,881
Speaker 2: and things like that.

934
00:45:53,001 --> 00:45:56,201
Speaker 4: Born in nineteen forty three, the boy from the inner

935
00:45:56,241 --> 00:45:59,681
Speaker 4: city Sydney suburb of Botany knew his passion for the

936
00:45:59,721 --> 00:46:03,681
Speaker 4: world game always rose above those petty disputes, making a

937
00:46:03,721 --> 00:46:07,041
Speaker 4: mark both at home and abroad, and a bad.

938
00:46:06,881 --> 00:46:09,681
Speaker 6: Clearance and a challenge by John Warren.

939
00:46:11,361 --> 00:46:14,321
Speaker 2: But then it sort of went to my dad, Marion Brown,

940
00:46:14,921 --> 00:46:16,601
Speaker 2: which is what she was known for most of my

941
00:46:16,681 --> 00:46:18,520
Speaker 2: childhood when she was a school teacher in the Blue

942
00:46:18,521 --> 00:46:21,801
Speaker 2: Mountains in Springwood. Then she met Ray Barter and married

943
00:46:21,881 --> 00:46:25,761
Speaker 2: Ray Barter and they got married in nineteen eighty five.

944
00:46:25,961 --> 00:46:28,241
Speaker 2: In the Blue Mountains, Mom ended up getting a promotion,

945
00:46:28,401 --> 00:46:31,441
Speaker 2: moved down to Sussex, Inlet on the south coast and

946
00:46:31,521 --> 00:46:33,881
Speaker 2: taught down in that southern area before she got the

947
00:46:33,881 --> 00:46:37,201
Speaker 2: promotion and went to the Southport School up here in Queensland.

948
00:46:38,121 --> 00:46:41,161
Speaker 2: So we were looking at that document and we noticed

949
00:46:41,201 --> 00:46:43,961
Speaker 2: that there was a new name on there, Florabella Natalia

950
00:46:44,001 --> 00:46:50,361
Speaker 2: Marion Ramachel. And it wasn't until twenty sixteen. I had

951
00:46:50,361 --> 00:46:53,001
Speaker 2: a Facebook page which I set up in twenty thirteen

952
00:46:53,761 --> 00:46:55,761
Speaker 2: to try and see if we could garner some interest

953
00:46:55,801 --> 00:46:58,081
Speaker 2: and see if anyone could help me find the answers,

954
00:46:58,081 --> 00:47:00,681
Speaker 2: because I was literally doing it on my own and

955
00:47:00,721 --> 00:47:03,361
Speaker 2: I had no idea. I'm not a sleuth. I don't

956
00:47:03,361 --> 00:47:06,081
Speaker 2: know how to go and search things. I didn't know

957
00:47:06,161 --> 00:47:09,241
Speaker 2: about going into archives and pulling out files. I have

958
00:47:09,321 --> 00:47:12,841
Speaker 2: learned a lot over this past two decades, nearly three

959
00:47:12,841 --> 00:47:16,440
Speaker 2: decades of searching for my mum, but winding back to then,

960
00:47:16,641 --> 00:47:20,241
Speaker 2: I was really just putting my hands into the police

961
00:47:20,281 --> 00:47:21,321
Speaker 2: and hoping for the best.

962
00:47:22,001 --> 00:47:25,281
Speaker 1: And at that point I don't really remember.

963
00:47:24,881 --> 00:47:27,921
Speaker 2: What he said to me, but he says that, well, clearly,

964
00:47:28,041 --> 00:47:30,960
Speaker 2: she deliberately has tried to change her name, and she's

965
00:47:31,001 --> 00:47:34,841
Speaker 2: tried to disappear herself, and I was not sure that

966
00:47:34,841 --> 00:47:38,561
Speaker 2: that was my thoughts on the situation. I felt like

967
00:47:38,601 --> 00:47:40,681
Speaker 2: something was wrong, and I kept saying, that's a weird name.

968
00:47:40,721 --> 00:47:43,081
Speaker 2: Why would you change your name to Flora Bella Ramkel

969
00:47:43,081 --> 00:47:46,601
Speaker 2: if you wanted to disappear, I'd be Jane Smith. And

970
00:47:46,721 --> 00:47:48,561
Speaker 2: you know what the other part of that is, if

971
00:47:48,601 --> 00:47:51,881
Speaker 2: I've left the country and I've gone to live in Luxembourg,

972
00:47:52,401 --> 00:47:54,721
Speaker 2: why would I come back? So there was all these

973
00:47:54,801 --> 00:47:59,961
Speaker 2: questions going and just rolling through my gut and thinking

974
00:48:00,001 --> 00:48:03,241
Speaker 2: something's not right. So I had a lady contact me

975
00:48:03,841 --> 00:48:07,201
Speaker 2: who was following my Facebook page and she said, Sally,

976
00:48:07,241 --> 00:48:08,961
Speaker 2: I just wanted to let you know, I've just been

977
00:48:08,961 --> 00:48:11,601
Speaker 2: onto the National Missing Person's Register and I've noticed your

978
00:48:11,641 --> 00:48:14,001
Speaker 2: mom's not on there. And I was like, what do

979
00:48:14,041 --> 00:48:17,321
Speaker 2: you mean she's not on there? So I rang Rebecca

980
00:48:17,401 --> 00:48:20,641
Speaker 2: Cotts because I had a friend in her now right,

981
00:48:20,801 --> 00:48:24,001
Speaker 2: So our friendship was now nine years old and she'd

982
00:48:24,041 --> 00:48:26,121
Speaker 2: been my person if I needed anything I could call

983
00:48:26,161 --> 00:48:26,481
Speaker 2: on her.

984
00:48:26,761 --> 00:48:29,201
Speaker 1: And just to clarify too, Rebecca.

985
00:48:28,881 --> 00:48:32,561
Speaker 2: Was working in friends and families of Missing persons for AFP,

986
00:48:32,801 --> 00:48:36,001
Speaker 2: so she wasn't actually with the Australian Federal Police. She

987
00:48:36,201 --> 00:48:39,001
Speaker 2: was a civilian working for them in this space supporting

988
00:48:39,001 --> 00:48:42,801
Speaker 2: people with missing persons, and I rang her and I said,

989
00:48:43,081 --> 00:48:45,521
Speaker 2: I've just had this lady tell me that Mom's name

990
00:48:45,601 --> 00:48:48,281
Speaker 2: is not on the register. Can you please have a

991
00:48:48,281 --> 00:48:50,881
Speaker 2: look and try and work out what's happened. And she

992
00:48:51,041 --> 00:48:52,881
Speaker 2: had a look at the file while I'm on the

993
00:48:52,881 --> 00:48:55,601
Speaker 2: phone to her, and she said, hmm, there's something on

994
00:48:55,641 --> 00:48:58,801
Speaker 2: the file, but I need to get approval to be

995
00:48:58,841 --> 00:49:01,361
Speaker 2: able to tell you what it is. Bear with me,

996
00:49:01,761 --> 00:49:03,321
Speaker 2: let me see if I can get approval and I'll

997
00:49:03,361 --> 00:49:07,041
Speaker 2: come back to you. So it's a long time ago,

998
00:49:07,081 --> 00:49:09,281
Speaker 2: and it was a very frustrating period of time. So

999
00:49:09,321 --> 00:49:11,960
Speaker 2: I'm going to say maybe a day. The same day,

1000
00:49:12,041 --> 00:49:14,841
Speaker 2: the next day, the day after, Rebecca comes back to

1001
00:49:14,881 --> 00:49:17,881
Speaker 2: me with approval and she brings me and says, I've

1002
00:49:17,921 --> 00:49:19,401
Speaker 2: been given approval to send.

1003
00:49:19,201 --> 00:49:19,841
Speaker 1: You what we have.

1004
00:49:20,641 --> 00:49:23,881
Speaker 2: So she sent me a document and the document was

1005
00:49:23,961 --> 00:49:28,601
Speaker 2: outlining the situation of my mom and they new South

1006
00:49:28,641 --> 00:49:33,081
Speaker 2: Wales Police had marked my mum as located and a date.

1007
00:49:33,961 --> 00:49:37,961
Speaker 2: So upon looking at this document, it's actually got a

1008
00:49:38,001 --> 00:49:43,441
Speaker 2: notation that my mom was located on the seventh of

1009
00:49:43,601 --> 00:49:48,121
Speaker 2: December twenty eleven, and that on the eighth of November,

1010
00:49:48,801 --> 00:49:54,441
Speaker 2: so month before that, Gary shean suspends the case of

1011
00:49:54,481 --> 00:50:01,041
Speaker 2: my mum. So I ran Gary and I said, I've

1012
00:50:01,121 --> 00:50:05,841
Speaker 2: just received a document from the AFP that says that

1013
00:50:06,001 --> 00:50:10,281
Speaker 2: in twenty and eleven you located my mum. Now, I

1014
00:50:10,321 --> 00:50:12,361
Speaker 2: won't go into the nitty gritty because there's a little

1015
00:50:12,361 --> 00:50:15,841
Speaker 2: bit of back and forth about some information about her

1016
00:50:15,881 --> 00:50:18,721
Speaker 2: living in Queensland that came into that mix, and I'm

1017
00:50:18,721 --> 00:50:21,041
Speaker 2: not really clear, so I don't want to sort of

1018
00:50:21,041 --> 00:50:24,601
Speaker 2: talk too much about that. But he said to me,

1019
00:50:25,241 --> 00:50:27,801
Speaker 2: can you read me the document? So I read it

1020
00:50:27,801 --> 00:50:30,441
Speaker 2: to him and he said, can you read it again?

1021
00:50:31,161 --> 00:50:34,081
Speaker 2: So I read it again, and he said, I'm just

1022
00:50:34,081 --> 00:50:37,881
Speaker 2: going to make a call. I'll call you back. So

1023
00:50:37,921 --> 00:50:40,161
Speaker 2: he called me back a short while later. I was

1024
00:50:40,201 --> 00:50:44,361
Speaker 2: at work and he said, I've spoken to them and

1025
00:50:44,401 --> 00:50:45,841
Speaker 2: they said it's a typo.

1026
00:50:46,961 --> 00:50:49,081
Speaker 1: I said, what do you mean, it's a typo.

1027
00:50:50,361 --> 00:50:52,801
Speaker 2: There's a document, a legal document says that my mum

1028
00:50:52,841 --> 00:50:55,921
Speaker 2: was located on the seventh of December twenty eleven and

1029
00:50:55,961 --> 00:50:58,561
Speaker 2: it's now twenty sixteen and I know nothing of this,

1030
00:50:59,281 --> 00:51:02,521
Speaker 2: what's going on? And he said, I'm just going to

1031
00:51:02,561 --> 00:51:05,201
Speaker 2: ring them back and get a bit more information. So

1032
00:51:05,241 --> 00:51:06,641
Speaker 2: then he rings me back again.

1033
00:51:07,361 --> 00:51:07,641
Speaker 1: Later.

1034
00:51:07,721 --> 00:51:09,401
Speaker 2: It might have even been the next day, and it

1035
00:51:09,441 --> 00:51:11,401
Speaker 2: was quite a lengthy phone call. And I did write

1036
00:51:11,441 --> 00:51:13,481
Speaker 2: all this down in a notebook because I got to

1037
00:51:13,521 --> 00:51:17,241
Speaker 2: the point in this exercise of I write down everything.

1038
00:51:17,361 --> 00:51:19,601
Speaker 2: I write down the date, how long the call was,

1039
00:51:19,881 --> 00:51:24,321
Speaker 2: what time it was, because what I quickly realized fast

1040
00:51:24,361 --> 00:51:27,121
Speaker 2: forward another ten years, no one ever puts anything in

1041
00:51:27,161 --> 00:51:29,921
Speaker 2: writing to me. They always ring it through to me.

1042
00:51:30,161 --> 00:51:32,761
Speaker 2: So I've got no proof of what's been said, what's happened,

1043
00:51:32,841 --> 00:51:36,641
Speaker 2: what's so it's very important that you start documenting everything.

1044
00:51:36,881 --> 00:51:39,561
Speaker 2: So I've become a bit paranoid in that realm of life,

1045
00:51:39,761 --> 00:51:44,201
Speaker 2: let's say, for valid reasons. He rings me back and

1046
00:51:44,241 --> 00:51:49,281
Speaker 2: he said, I've spoken to them again and they've explained

1047
00:51:49,321 --> 00:51:53,480
Speaker 2: to me that on a document within the police force,

1048
00:51:53,521 --> 00:51:58,361
Speaker 2: there's two boxes. You're either located or you're missing. And

1049
00:51:58,401 --> 00:52:01,960
Speaker 2: we believe on the basis that your mum sold her house,

1050
00:52:02,001 --> 00:52:04,801
Speaker 2: she quit her job, and she changed her name, didn't

1051
00:52:04,841 --> 00:52:06,681
Speaker 2: tell that she was coming back into the country, that

1052
00:52:06,761 --> 00:52:11,281
Speaker 2: she's deliberately gone missing, so we have no choice but

1053
00:52:11,321 --> 00:52:14,241
Speaker 2: to tick that she's been located. And I was like,

1054
00:52:14,761 --> 00:52:17,721
Speaker 2: what do you mean. You can't mark someone located if

1055
00:52:17,721 --> 00:52:20,161
Speaker 2: you haven't located them. She's in La La Land. You

1056
00:52:20,161 --> 00:52:23,721
Speaker 2: guys obviously need a third box. If that's the scenario,

1057
00:52:24,361 --> 00:52:26,881
Speaker 2: we don't know box, rather than let's make an assumption

1058
00:52:27,161 --> 00:52:30,561
Speaker 2: and put her over here. Because that language continued. Then

1059
00:52:30,881 --> 00:52:34,681
Speaker 2: I was fighting every force of nature. I've got documents

1060
00:52:34,681 --> 00:52:37,161
Speaker 2: where police are saying, oh, I believe Marian was located

1061
00:52:37,201 --> 00:52:40,681
Speaker 2: as recently as last month. Who says that stuff without

1062
00:52:40,721 --> 00:52:44,641
Speaker 2: proof and without actual facts. So that was really damaging

1063
00:52:44,681 --> 00:52:47,881
Speaker 2: to the case for me and for mum, you know,

1064
00:52:48,041 --> 00:52:52,161
Speaker 2: at that time, and that was twenty sixteen, and Gary

1065
00:52:52,201 --> 00:52:54,321
Speaker 2: had sort of said to me, that's as good as

1066
00:52:54,361 --> 00:52:57,521
Speaker 2: I can get. It's documented that I think it was

1067
00:52:57,561 --> 00:53:00,481
Speaker 2: the eighth of November, so like just a month before

1068
00:53:00,721 --> 00:53:04,401
Speaker 2: that located was noted on that document. He suspended the

1069
00:53:04,441 --> 00:53:08,561
Speaker 2: case and no action was to be taken, and then

1070
00:53:08,601 --> 00:53:10,001
Speaker 2: she gets marked as located.

1071
00:53:10,721 --> 00:53:11,281
Speaker 1: That was it.

1072
00:53:11,881 --> 00:53:14,321
Speaker 2: So in discussions with Gary, he was pretty much telling

1073
00:53:14,361 --> 00:53:16,601
Speaker 2: me on repeat his hands were tied and he couldn't

1074
00:53:16,601 --> 00:53:17,481
Speaker 2: help me any further.

1075
00:53:18,521 --> 00:53:20,440
Speaker 1: And I can't remember for sure.

1076
00:53:20,521 --> 00:53:22,801
Speaker 2: He might have suggested to me that I maybe go

1077
00:53:22,841 --> 00:53:24,721
Speaker 2: and talk to Queensland Police and see if they can

1078
00:53:24,761 --> 00:53:27,481
Speaker 2: help me, being that she was living in Queensland and

1079
00:53:27,521 --> 00:53:30,641
Speaker 2: it typically should be a Queensland case. Is kind of

1080
00:53:30,681 --> 00:53:35,681
Speaker 2: the vibe he was always pushing onto me. So in

1081
00:53:35,721 --> 00:53:39,201
Speaker 2: the December, I took myself down with my folder and

1082
00:53:39,401 --> 00:53:44,281
Speaker 2: rocked into Morningside Police station here in Brisbane and talk

1083
00:53:44,361 --> 00:53:45,801
Speaker 2: to the person at the desk. Again.

1084
00:53:45,881 --> 00:53:47,121
Speaker 1: I was having like deja vu.

1085
00:53:47,281 --> 00:53:48,881
Speaker 2: No one brings you in and sits down and says,

1086
00:53:48,921 --> 00:53:51,241
Speaker 2: I'm so sorry you're dealing with this. What can we do?

1087
00:53:51,321 --> 00:53:53,521
Speaker 2: They just sat at the table at the front desk

1088
00:53:53,561 --> 00:53:56,081
Speaker 2: with big perspects in front of it, took my name

1089
00:53:56,121 --> 00:53:58,041
Speaker 2: and number and said we'll get someone to call you.

1090
00:53:59,161 --> 00:54:02,161
Speaker 2: So I remember I was working and i'd driven to

1091
00:54:02,201 --> 00:54:04,601
Speaker 2: the post office and I was going to collect the

1092
00:54:04,641 --> 00:54:06,721
Speaker 2: mail and I was sitting in my car when this

1093
00:54:06,801 --> 00:54:10,641
Speaker 2: lady rang me and in a nutshell she said to me,

1094
00:54:11,401 --> 00:54:15,361
Speaker 2: we can't help you, Sally, just because you're dissatisfied with

1095
00:54:15,761 --> 00:54:18,801
Speaker 2: New South Wales Police. They own carriage of the case.

1096
00:54:19,041 --> 00:54:22,161
Speaker 2: We can't just pick up and start helping you because

1097
00:54:22,241 --> 00:54:24,961
Speaker 2: they own the carriage of the case. And I remember

1098
00:54:25,001 --> 00:54:26,881
Speaker 2: that very clearly because that was the first time i'd

1099
00:54:26,881 --> 00:54:30,521
Speaker 2: heard that language, that there was a carriage of the case.

1100
00:54:31,201 --> 00:54:34,521
Speaker 2: So then I went back and forth. Then there's lots

1101
00:54:34,521 --> 00:54:37,521
Speaker 2: of emails and lots of transcripts of me asking for

1102
00:54:37,961 --> 00:54:41,121
Speaker 2: the carriage to be released by New South Wales. If

1103
00:54:41,121 --> 00:54:43,440
Speaker 2: they've suspended it and you're not working on it, why

1104
00:54:43,441 --> 00:54:45,441
Speaker 2: can't you give it to Queensland Police to have a

1105
00:54:45,481 --> 00:54:47,681
Speaker 2: look at and see if we can get some traction

1106
00:54:48,281 --> 00:54:50,401
Speaker 2: on looking for my mum because no one else is

1107
00:54:50,441 --> 00:54:54,641
Speaker 2: doing anything and they refuse to No, we have carriage

1108
00:54:54,681 --> 00:54:58,201
Speaker 2: of it, we're not giving it to Queensland. So I

1109
00:54:58,281 --> 00:55:01,441
Speaker 2: was really left at that juncture, going what do I do?

1110
00:55:02,041 --> 00:55:04,321
Speaker 2: What are we now? We're twenty twenty five so next year.

1111
00:55:04,321 --> 00:55:07,601
Speaker 2: That's ten years ago, and the fight has just been

1112
00:55:07,681 --> 00:55:09,881
Speaker 2: huge ever since to get people to help me, to

1113
00:55:09,961 --> 00:55:12,681
Speaker 2: get people to listen to what I'm saying and help

1114
00:55:12,721 --> 00:55:15,441
Speaker 2: me find the answers as to what's happened.

1115
00:55:15,521 --> 00:55:16,961
Speaker 1: People just don't disappear.

1116
00:55:17,921 --> 00:55:21,481
Speaker 2: I mean, yes they do, but there's usually a reason why.

1117
00:55:21,881 --> 00:55:24,281
Speaker 2: So they either have disappeared on their own account or

1118
00:55:24,321 --> 00:55:27,161
Speaker 2: something has happened to them. And I wasn't about to

1119
00:55:27,201 --> 00:55:30,121
Speaker 2: sit back and let that go down that slide because

1120
00:55:30,121 --> 00:55:32,121
Speaker 2: I just my gut told me something was not right

1121
00:55:32,161 --> 00:55:35,961
Speaker 2: and I had to do more so in twenty eighteen,

1122
00:55:36,641 --> 00:55:39,681
Speaker 2: so a couple of years after that all happened and

1123
00:55:39,721 --> 00:55:43,881
Speaker 2: everything kind of just paused like there was nothing happening.

1124
00:55:43,881 --> 00:55:45,801
Speaker 2: And Gary had told me, this is as good as

1125
00:55:45,801 --> 00:55:47,761
Speaker 2: you're going to get. So they were the kind of

1126
00:55:48,201 --> 00:55:50,681
Speaker 2: languages that I was getting. My hands are tied, nothing

1127
00:55:50,721 --> 00:55:52,761
Speaker 2: I can do. I can try and help you, but

1128
00:55:52,761 --> 00:55:54,761
Speaker 2: I'll be doing it in my spare time because I've

1129
00:55:54,801 --> 00:55:56,601
Speaker 2: got other jobs to do. So that was sort of

1130
00:55:56,641 --> 00:55:58,641
Speaker 2: like the language that I was copying most of the time.

1131
00:55:58,681 --> 00:56:00,841
Speaker 2: And I was trying to think of all these different things,

1132
00:56:00,881 --> 00:56:02,841
Speaker 2: like can you check her superannuation?

1133
00:56:03,001 --> 00:56:05,321
Speaker 1: Did she do a tax return in ninety ninety seven?

1134
00:56:05,601 --> 00:56:07,961
Speaker 2: Can you look at the passenger lists on the flights

1135
00:56:07,961 --> 00:56:10,001
Speaker 2: that she came in and out of, so we can

1136
00:56:10,041 --> 00:56:12,321
Speaker 2: see if the same name's on the same flight, maybe

1137
00:56:12,361 --> 00:56:14,921
Speaker 2: we have a person of interest. I was throwing all

1138
00:56:14,961 --> 00:56:17,721
Speaker 2: these suggestions at them, and I'm just sitting here as

1139
00:56:18,001 --> 00:56:20,641
Speaker 2: the daughter of a missing person, a mum of three,

1140
00:56:21,121 --> 00:56:23,921
Speaker 2: working full time, trying to think of how I could

1141
00:56:23,961 --> 00:56:26,361
Speaker 2: find information that might help me find out what's happened

1142
00:56:26,361 --> 00:56:29,041
Speaker 2: to my mum, full well knowing that her bank accounts

1143
00:56:29,081 --> 00:56:32,721
Speaker 2: were drained and I knew something was wrong. She hadn't

1144
00:56:32,721 --> 00:56:36,441
Speaker 2: bought a house, she hadn't touched her super, she hadn't

1145
00:56:36,441 --> 00:56:38,801
Speaker 2: gone to Center Link. And this is based on what

1146
00:56:38,921 --> 00:56:40,921
Speaker 2: I was being told by police. So I was really

1147
00:56:40,921 --> 00:56:44,401
Speaker 2: reliant on them giving me that information, because when someone's

1148
00:56:44,681 --> 00:56:46,681
Speaker 2: missing but they're not deceased, you don't have a death

1149
00:56:46,681 --> 00:56:50,081
Speaker 2: certificate and you are powerless to their information. And I

1150
00:56:50,201 --> 00:56:51,041
Speaker 2: kept getting.

1151
00:56:50,761 --> 00:56:53,081
Speaker 1: Told by Gary that Florabella.

1152
00:56:53,121 --> 00:56:56,081
Speaker 2: He always referred to her as Florabella, which just grinded

1153
00:56:56,081 --> 00:56:58,601
Speaker 2: my gears to the whole because no one knew her

1154
00:56:58,641 --> 00:57:00,801
Speaker 2: as Florabella and there was a reason why this name

1155
00:57:00,881 --> 00:57:04,161
Speaker 2: had come into the mix. And he kept saying to me,

1156
00:57:04,201 --> 00:57:09,241
Speaker 2: Flora Bella's privacy matters. Selling her privacy is important, and

1157
00:57:09,321 --> 00:57:11,641
Speaker 2: I was like, but when does that stop? When does

1158
00:57:11,681 --> 00:57:14,521
Speaker 2: it actually be a case that I can actually help

1159
00:57:14,561 --> 00:57:17,681
Speaker 2: her and work on helping find out what's happened to her.

1160
00:57:18,441 --> 00:57:23,641
Speaker 2: And in twenty eighteen, a lady that I know from

1161
00:57:23,721 --> 00:57:27,561
Speaker 2: my children's primary school, who had a link into the

1162
00:57:27,601 --> 00:57:30,641
Speaker 2: media world, had wrung me and she said, Hey, Sally,

1163
00:57:31,401 --> 00:57:34,001
Speaker 2: just wondering if you're interested if I could try and

1164
00:57:34,041 --> 00:57:36,481
Speaker 2: get you onto sixty Minutes or the Sunday Night program.

1165
00:57:36,481 --> 00:57:39,161
Speaker 2: Would you be interested? And I said one hundred percent.

1166
00:57:39,801 --> 00:57:43,601
Speaker 2: My grandmother had recently passed at this point, and that's

1167
00:57:43,641 --> 00:57:44,361
Speaker 2: my mom's mum.

1168
00:57:44,441 --> 00:57:46,761
Speaker 1: She was living by herself and she was ninety four.

1169
00:57:46,921 --> 00:57:48,641
Speaker 2: I didn't want to upset her, like it got to

1170
00:57:48,641 --> 00:57:50,281
Speaker 2: the point where she didn't want to talk about it.

1171
00:57:50,681 --> 00:57:53,721
Speaker 2: I was very careful with anything that I was thinking

1172
00:57:53,801 --> 00:57:56,521
Speaker 2: or saying or doing, but I knew that it had

1173
00:57:56,841 --> 00:57:59,681
Speaker 2: more to tell and someone knows something, so I had

1174
00:57:59,721 --> 00:58:00,361
Speaker 2: to do something.

1175
00:58:00,361 --> 00:58:02,241
Speaker 1: But I just really felt it in my heart.

1176
00:58:02,281 --> 00:58:04,681
Speaker 2: I had to wait for her to pass before I

1177
00:58:04,681 --> 00:58:07,241
Speaker 2: didn't because I really didn't want to upset her. And

1178
00:58:07,681 --> 00:58:10,041
Speaker 2: I said, yeah, I'm really keen. I'm ready now, like

1179
00:58:10,081 --> 00:58:11,961
Speaker 2: this is the right time to do something.

1180
00:58:12,001 --> 00:58:13,241
Speaker 1: My kids are a little bit older.

1181
00:58:14,121 --> 00:58:16,761
Speaker 2: I can spend time now doing this because I know

1182
00:58:16,801 --> 00:58:19,241
Speaker 2: how consuming it is from the times that I had

1183
00:58:19,281 --> 00:58:22,521
Speaker 2: dived back in. She said, okay, well I'll see what

1184
00:58:22,561 --> 00:58:24,921
Speaker 2: I can do. And so about a week later, I

1185
00:58:24,921 --> 00:58:28,441
Speaker 2: hadn't heard from anybody. I rang her back and I said, Hey,

1186
00:58:28,641 --> 00:58:31,521
Speaker 2: just checking, has anybody sort of reached out? Have you

1187
00:58:31,561 --> 00:58:34,201
Speaker 2: had any interest? And she said, look, I haven't. I've

1188
00:58:34,201 --> 00:58:36,401
Speaker 2: put it out there if they contact you, they will.

1189
00:58:36,881 --> 00:58:39,321
Speaker 2: I went, okay, all right, no problem. And it was

1190
00:58:39,321 --> 00:58:41,321
Speaker 2: only a couple of days after that that I got

1191
00:58:41,361 --> 00:58:44,761
Speaker 2: a call from Alison Sandy and Allison actually used to

1192
00:58:44,801 --> 00:58:47,761
Speaker 2: work for this lady's husband, so that's how they were connected.

1193
00:58:48,041 --> 00:58:50,721
Speaker 2: And she said, would you like to meet for a coffee?

1194
00:58:51,041 --> 00:58:53,041
Speaker 2: And I said, sure, love to meet for a coffee.

1195
00:58:53,081 --> 00:58:56,201
Speaker 2: So we arranged that and I rocked up with my

1196
00:58:56,761 --> 00:58:59,121
Speaker 2: big blue folder with all my documents in it, and

1197
00:58:59,161 --> 00:59:02,721
Speaker 2: we sat down for a coffee and we pretty quickly

1198
00:59:02,761 --> 00:59:05,841
Speaker 2: decided that it wasn't going to be enough for a

1199
00:59:05,881 --> 00:59:10,041
Speaker 2: one hour TV program on Sunday night, but maybe we

1200
00:59:10,041 --> 00:59:12,281
Speaker 2: should look at doing a podcast. I had just heard

1201
00:59:12,561 --> 00:59:14,721
Speaker 2: The Teacher's Pet. That was the first podcast I'd ever

1202
00:59:14,761 --> 00:59:19,601
Speaker 2: listened to, and I sort of saw similarities in my

1203
00:59:19,681 --> 00:59:23,001
Speaker 2: mum's story about a woman who the police just sort

1204
00:59:23,041 --> 00:59:26,201
Speaker 2: of wrote off as well, she just wants to be

1205
00:59:26,281 --> 00:59:29,561
Speaker 2: left alone, she doesn't want to be found. And we

1206
00:59:30,601 --> 00:59:33,161
Speaker 2: came up with the concept of doing The Lady Vanishers,

1207
00:59:33,721 --> 00:59:37,361
Speaker 2: and I think today still it's the longest running single

1208
00:59:37,561 --> 00:59:40,761
Speaker 2: story episode podcast in Australia. When we were up to

1209
00:59:40,801 --> 00:59:44,561
Speaker 2: fifty seven episodes. It finished last year in February when

1210
00:59:44,561 --> 00:59:47,721
Speaker 2: we got to the end of the findings for the

1211
00:59:47,761 --> 00:59:49,801
Speaker 2: Inquest bar.

1212
00:59:49,801 --> 00:59:53,681
Speaker 7: And Barter, the Gonks teacher who disappeared twenty four years ago.

1213
00:59:54,001 --> 00:59:56,441
Speaker 7: Did she meet with foul play or start a new

1214
00:59:56,521 --> 01:00:01,241
Speaker 7: live first the Blogbuster Lady Vanishes podcast now The Inquest

1215
01:00:01,281 --> 01:00:04,921
Speaker 7: to Solve the Mystery. Full coverage on seven News Monday.

1216
01:00:06,641 --> 01:00:09,121
Speaker 2: So Allison and I met, I think it was in

1217
01:00:09,161 --> 01:00:14,521
Speaker 2: October of twenty eighteen, and it was an interesting time actually,

1218
01:00:14,561 --> 01:00:17,921
Speaker 2: because I'd spoken to Gary Shean in the December and

1219
01:00:17,961 --> 01:00:20,121
Speaker 2: I told him, I said, I've got a media interest.

1220
01:00:20,321 --> 01:00:21,561
Speaker 1: We're going to do a podcast.

1221
01:00:22,281 --> 01:00:26,041
Speaker 2: And he had told me prior to that, in that

1222
01:00:26,081 --> 01:00:29,521
Speaker 2: same conversation that his hands were tied, there's really nothing

1223
01:00:29,601 --> 01:00:32,521
Speaker 2: more to do. He'll only work on it any spare time,

1224
01:00:32,601 --> 01:00:35,081
Speaker 2: same sort of language again. I said, Okay, well, I

1225
01:00:35,081 --> 01:00:37,201
Speaker 2: have got a media interest and we're looking at doing

1226
01:00:37,201 --> 01:00:40,321
Speaker 2: a podcast. So I'll keep you informed as to what's

1227
01:00:40,361 --> 01:00:43,361
Speaker 2: going on with that. Because I've always worked actively with

1228
01:00:43,401 --> 01:00:45,281
Speaker 2: the police. Anything they want, I've given it to them,

1229
01:00:45,321 --> 01:00:48,081
Speaker 2: and I've been very kind and of giving of my time.

1230
01:00:48,081 --> 01:00:50,001
Speaker 2: I've driven back and forth whenever they want to take

1231
01:00:50,081 --> 01:00:52,001
Speaker 2: DNA and blah, blah blah, blah blah. I've done a

1232
01:00:52,041 --> 01:00:54,201
Speaker 2: lot because at the end of the day, I just

1233
01:00:54,241 --> 01:00:55,721
Speaker 2: want to find my mum. I don't want to be

1234
01:00:55,761 --> 01:00:59,041
Speaker 2: an antagonistic human and upset anybody. I'm just here to

1235
01:00:59,201 --> 01:01:01,561
Speaker 2: find the answers, you know. I just want people with

1236
01:01:01,641 --> 01:01:05,881
Speaker 2: passion and drive to have the same for me. Anyway,

1237
01:01:06,081 --> 01:01:09,201
Speaker 2: we went away for Christmas, and then when we got back,

1238
01:01:09,241 --> 01:01:11,761
Speaker 2: I went away again with my daughters because Ella had

1239
01:01:11,761 --> 01:01:14,161
Speaker 2: finished school and we decided we were going to go

1240
01:01:14,201 --> 01:01:15,601
Speaker 2: on a bit of a girl's trip. So when I

1241
01:01:15,641 --> 01:01:18,881
Speaker 2: got back from that, Gary rang me, which was quite

1242
01:01:18,921 --> 01:01:22,241
Speaker 2: out of the out of the ordinary, and said to me, oh,

1243
01:01:22,281 --> 01:01:24,881
Speaker 2: I just wanted to let you know I've done multiple

1244
01:01:25,001 --> 01:01:28,681
Speaker 2: proof of life checks runs all over Australia for your mum.

1245
01:01:28,681 --> 01:01:30,561
Speaker 2: And I went, you just told me your hands were

1246
01:01:30,561 --> 01:01:32,521
Speaker 2: tired and you weren't doing anything and there's nothing more

1247
01:01:32,561 --> 01:01:36,481
Speaker 2: you could do, and now you're doing proof of life checks. Okay,

1248
01:01:36,521 --> 01:01:38,681
Speaker 2: well that's good. I'm glad you're doing proof of life checks.

1249
01:01:38,681 --> 01:01:41,441
Speaker 2: That's really what I wanted you to do. And he said,

1250
01:01:41,481 --> 01:01:43,761
Speaker 2: I've only heard back from two so far and there's nothing.

1251
01:01:44,321 --> 01:01:47,841
Speaker 2: And then the first of April we launched The Lady

1252
01:01:47,881 --> 01:01:51,041
Speaker 2: Vanishers and we went live with Channel seven and I

1253
01:01:51,121 --> 01:01:54,761
Speaker 2: went down to Sydney. We were on Sunrise promoting it

1254
01:01:54,881 --> 01:01:57,281
Speaker 2: to get it going and look to be honest, we

1255
01:01:57,401 --> 01:01:59,321
Speaker 2: at that point we thought it would be a seven

1256
01:01:59,881 --> 01:02:03,801
Speaker 2: part podcast series, just talking about my story in the

1257
01:02:03,841 --> 01:02:05,401
Speaker 2: hope that someone might know something.

1258
01:02:06,121 --> 01:02:09,481
Speaker 3: Marion Barter is an extraordinary one that once married to

1259
01:02:09,521 --> 01:02:13,321
Speaker 3: a Soakaru legend. She disappeared in nineteen ninety seven and

1260
01:02:13,481 --> 01:02:15,161
Speaker 3: has never been seen again.

1261
01:02:15,281 --> 01:02:18,161
Speaker 5: Her daughter Sally, has never given up hope and her

1262
01:02:18,201 --> 01:02:20,641
Speaker 5: search for the truth is the subject of a brand

1263
01:02:20,681 --> 01:02:21,601
Speaker 5: new podcast.

1264
01:02:23,001 --> 01:02:25,881
Speaker 2: That was my hope and my goal at the end

1265
01:02:25,921 --> 01:02:27,681
Speaker 2: of it was to get to an inquest because my

1266
01:02:27,761 --> 01:02:30,441
Speaker 2: mum had never been to an inquest or had an inquest,

1267
01:02:30,481 --> 01:02:33,801
Speaker 2: and she wasn't even recognized as missing for a lot

1268
01:02:33,801 --> 01:02:37,841
Speaker 2: of that time, and at that point in twenty nineteen,

1269
01:02:38,321 --> 01:02:40,721
Speaker 2: she was not on the National Missing Person's Register, My

1270
01:02:40,841 --> 01:02:44,961
Speaker 2: DNA was not on any register, and we were really

1271
01:02:44,961 --> 01:02:47,361
Speaker 2: going nowhere. It was circling the drain and no one

1272
01:02:47,441 --> 01:02:49,641
Speaker 2: was interested and they all thought that her privacy added

1273
01:02:49,681 --> 01:02:50,561
Speaker 2: more than finding her.

1274
01:02:51,081 --> 01:02:52,841
Speaker 1: So the podcast started.

1275
01:02:53,561 --> 01:02:58,801
Speaker 2: It gained very fast momentum and I was shocked and overwhelmed,

1276
01:02:58,841 --> 01:03:02,161
Speaker 2: and you know, trying to keep up with everything. And

1277
01:03:02,241 --> 01:03:04,961
Speaker 2: after many many years of not having anybody really show

1278
01:03:05,241 --> 01:03:07,641
Speaker 2: much interest, and I had like less than a thousand

1279
01:03:07,641 --> 01:03:09,881
Speaker 2: followers on my Facebook page, I'm now up to twenty

1280
01:03:09,921 --> 01:03:13,441
Speaker 2: thousand people following my Facebook page. The Lady Vanishers had

1281
01:03:13,561 --> 01:03:16,841
Speaker 2: like millions of downloads and people recognizing me in the street,

1282
01:03:16,881 --> 01:03:19,601
Speaker 2: and I was like, oh goodness me, like, this is

1283
01:03:19,721 --> 01:03:23,361
Speaker 2: really huge now. And I wanted it to be big

1284
01:03:23,361 --> 01:03:26,681
Speaker 2: because I know someone knows more than we've found out yet.

1285
01:03:27,041 --> 01:03:29,561
Speaker 2: So that was why I was happy to project myself

1286
01:03:29,561 --> 01:03:32,201
Speaker 2: into that space for the pure fact of finding more

1287
01:03:32,241 --> 01:03:34,681
Speaker 2: knowledge and more information. And that has been the case.

1288
01:03:34,721 --> 01:03:37,321
Speaker 2: We've had so many people come forward and tell us things,

1289
01:03:37,841 --> 01:03:42,001
Speaker 2: and it's been imperative. We've got Jonie who so if

1290
01:03:42,041 --> 01:03:43,961
Speaker 2: I give you the timeline right we launch on the

1291
01:03:43,961 --> 01:03:46,961
Speaker 2: first of April, I put a call out on the

1292
01:03:46,961 --> 01:03:50,361
Speaker 2: podcast and say we would really like some help if

1293
01:03:50,361 --> 01:03:52,201
Speaker 2: you can help us, if you know something, can you

1294
01:03:52,241 --> 01:03:55,841
Speaker 2: please let us know? And we got a call from

1295
01:03:55,921 --> 01:03:59,441
Speaker 2: Joanie Condos and she said that she had done some

1296
01:03:59,481 --> 01:04:03,481
Speaker 2: research into the name Ramachel and she was sick this

1297
01:04:03,721 --> 01:04:05,801
Speaker 2: night and she was staying up late. She'd had the

1298
01:04:05,841 --> 01:04:08,241
Speaker 2: flu and she was just playing around on the computer

1299
01:04:08,401 --> 01:04:11,881
Speaker 2: and she had had a missing person story in her

1300
01:04:11,961 --> 01:04:14,801
Speaker 2: family on her husband's side, and so she had some

1301
01:04:14,921 --> 01:04:18,041
Speaker 2: skills in that space that she thought she could lend

1302
01:04:18,281 --> 01:04:20,641
Speaker 2: to my mum's case to see what she could find.

1303
01:04:20,841 --> 01:04:24,241
Speaker 2: And lo and behold, she found an ad in a newspaper,

1304
01:04:25,081 --> 01:04:28,561
Speaker 2: which was a French speaking newspaper called Lo Courier Australian.

1305
01:04:28,721 --> 01:04:32,521
Speaker 2: It was published out of Sydney and the date in

1306
01:04:32,561 --> 01:04:35,761
Speaker 2: the newspaper article was nineteen ninety four and it was

1307
01:04:36,041 --> 01:04:41,121
Speaker 2: a gentleman by the name of m f Ramckel who

1308
01:04:41,481 --> 01:04:47,521
Speaker 2: was looking for love, potential marriage. He's a polyglot, non smoker,

1309
01:04:48,321 --> 01:04:50,961
Speaker 2: you know, bon chique boncha, which is like good taste,

1310
01:04:50,961 --> 01:04:56,041
Speaker 2: good style in French. And the po box was Lennox

1311
01:04:56,121 --> 01:04:59,841
Speaker 2: Heads in New South Wales. And for those who are

1312
01:04:59,881 --> 01:05:03,961
Speaker 2: listening along and don't really know the geographical side of Australia,

1313
01:05:04,361 --> 01:05:07,721
Speaker 2: Byron Bay is the next suburb to Lennox Heads. My

1314
01:05:07,841 --> 01:05:12,241
Speaker 2: mum's money was being withdrawn out of Barron Bay. And

1315
01:05:12,281 --> 01:05:15,161
Speaker 2: we've got a po box with a guy looking for

1316
01:05:15,281 --> 01:05:18,041
Speaker 2: love with the same surname spelled exactly the same way

1317
01:05:18,081 --> 01:05:21,841
Speaker 2: as my mum was spelling her name, her new name

1318
01:05:21,881 --> 01:05:24,561
Speaker 2: that she changed her name to, who also happened to

1319
01:05:24,601 --> 01:05:30,201
Speaker 2: have the same initials Flora Bella Natalia Marion Ramackel.

1320
01:05:31,481 --> 01:05:36,481
Speaker 1: My mind was blowing. We were freaking out, going what

1321
01:05:36,641 --> 01:05:37,041
Speaker 1: is going on?

1322
01:05:37,081 --> 01:05:41,681
Speaker 2: What is going on? So investigations start into who is

1323
01:05:41,761 --> 01:05:45,321
Speaker 2: this FM Ramikel. We knew how old he was because

1324
01:05:45,361 --> 01:05:47,721
Speaker 2: he put his age in the paper and we knew

1325
01:05:47,721 --> 01:05:50,041
Speaker 2: it was the paper date was nineteen ninety four, so

1326
01:05:50,081 --> 01:05:51,641
Speaker 2: we were able to work out how old he was.

1327
01:05:52,281 --> 01:05:56,081
Speaker 2: And we did a search on an MF. Ramichel and

1328
01:05:56,161 --> 01:05:58,681
Speaker 2: we found a guy who was the same age who

1329
01:05:58,721 --> 01:06:03,681
Speaker 2: lived in Luxembourg. Mum's passenger card said that she was

1330
01:06:04,161 --> 01:06:07,441
Speaker 2: going to live in life Luxembourg, and we were just

1331
01:06:08,361 --> 01:06:11,921
Speaker 2: mind blowing by this whole thing. I was beside myself, actually,

1332
01:06:11,961 --> 01:06:15,321
Speaker 2: I just didn't know what to think. So anyway, May

1333
01:06:15,761 --> 01:06:18,401
Speaker 2: twenty second, I remember it well because it was one

1334
01:06:18,401 --> 01:06:21,041
Speaker 2: of Ella's best friend's birthdays and I was sitting on

1335
01:06:21,081 --> 01:06:24,401
Speaker 2: the plane wishing her a happy birthday as we're taking off,

1336
01:06:25,081 --> 01:06:28,961
Speaker 2: and yeah, we flew to Luxembourg and we actually knocked

1337
01:06:29,041 --> 01:06:32,361
Speaker 2: on the door of mister f M.

1338
01:06:32,441 --> 01:06:35,561
Speaker 1: Ramchel, who lives in Luxembourg.

1339
01:06:36,721 --> 01:06:39,481
Speaker 2: That was mind boggling, Like I reached my hand out

1340
01:06:39,481 --> 01:06:41,681
Speaker 2: to shake his hand, he rejected my hand. I was

1341
01:06:41,721 --> 01:06:43,801
Speaker 2: holding my mum's photo in my hand and I was

1342
01:06:43,841 --> 01:06:46,881
Speaker 2: shaking like a leaf. And I'm with an interpreter. So

1343
01:06:47,481 --> 01:06:50,041
Speaker 2: I said to the boys, the cameraman and Brian Seymour,

1344
01:06:50,081 --> 01:06:53,321
Speaker 2: who came with me, who's one of the producers of

1345
01:06:53,361 --> 01:06:56,441
Speaker 2: the podcast, and I said, let me go by myself.

1346
01:06:56,841 --> 01:06:58,921
Speaker 2: I don't want cameras in their faces and stuff like that.

1347
01:06:58,961 --> 01:07:01,081
Speaker 2: These people might be very innocent people. I don't know

1348
01:07:01,361 --> 01:07:03,561
Speaker 2: who they are, but we need to tread very carefully.

1349
01:07:04,161 --> 01:07:09,481
Speaker 2: But were received with a very hostile situation. His wife

1350
01:07:09,521 --> 01:07:12,321
Speaker 2: came out of the garage and started filming the boys

1351
01:07:12,321 --> 01:07:15,241
Speaker 2: in the car, which was parked down the street, while

1352
01:07:15,681 --> 01:07:17,961
Speaker 2: Sarah and I are at the front door, and I've

1353
01:07:17,961 --> 01:07:20,921
Speaker 2: got this man who was very aggressive to me, and

1354
01:07:21,281 --> 01:07:23,761
Speaker 2: he's saying he wouldn't speak English. I said, you speak

1355
01:07:23,761 --> 01:07:26,681
Speaker 2: English and nah, and he's speaking to Sarah, but we

1356
01:07:27,081 --> 01:07:29,601
Speaker 2: do know that he speaks fluent English. So that was

1357
01:07:29,641 --> 01:07:32,481
Speaker 2: frustrating and it was nerve racking, and it was questionable,

1358
01:07:32,521 --> 01:07:35,321
Speaker 2: why are you acting this way. He later said to

1359
01:07:35,361 --> 01:07:38,161
Speaker 2: me that I was acting like a gypsy, which is

1360
01:07:38,161 --> 01:07:40,881
Speaker 2: a very derogative term over there, that I should have

1361
01:07:41,001 --> 01:07:45,001
Speaker 2: come up to the door and excused myself for the disturbance.

1362
01:07:45,641 --> 01:07:47,601
Speaker 2: And I was like, well, I felt like I was

1363
01:07:47,681 --> 01:07:49,681
Speaker 2: very pleasant, you know, I put my hand out, I

1364
01:07:49,721 --> 01:07:52,601
Speaker 2: was pretty kind. Actually, I was just being an Australian

1365
01:07:52,641 --> 01:07:55,481
Speaker 2: girl going I feel really nervous, like my heart was

1366
01:07:55,641 --> 01:07:57,521
Speaker 2: racing a million miles an hour. And I kept saying

1367
01:07:57,561 --> 01:08:00,241
Speaker 2: to Brian, my husband's going to shoot me if he

1368
01:08:00,281 --> 01:08:02,241
Speaker 2: knew that I was doing this right now, He's going

1369
01:08:02,281 --> 01:08:04,801
Speaker 2: to be very mad at me. And I've got three kids.

1370
01:08:04,521 --> 01:08:06,601
Speaker 1: And I'm like, oh my god, Like what's going on.

1371
01:08:07,241 --> 01:08:09,321
Speaker 2: Why I'm in the middle of the fields and in

1372
01:08:09,321 --> 01:08:11,041
Speaker 2: the middle of nowhere and no one really knows where

1373
01:08:11,041 --> 01:08:15,881
Speaker 2: I am. Anyway, we meet him. He then calls the police,

1374
01:08:16,481 --> 01:08:19,080
Speaker 2: and we'd actually been to the police station the morning

1375
01:08:19,121 --> 01:08:22,601
Speaker 2: that morning before because they weren't home, and so we'd

1376
01:08:22,641 --> 01:08:24,680
Speaker 2: spoken to the police, and the police knew why we

1377
01:08:24,681 --> 01:08:27,761
Speaker 2: were there, and they had actually done a search for me,

1378
01:08:28,481 --> 01:08:30,880
Speaker 2: because when you live in Luxembourg, you have to register

1379
01:08:31,201 --> 01:08:33,921
Speaker 2: to live in the country, and so they looked up

1380
01:08:34,161 --> 01:08:36,920
Speaker 2: her date of birth, and they looked up under Florabella

1381
01:08:37,001 --> 01:08:39,800
Speaker 2: Ramichel and under Marion Barter and there was no register.

1382
01:08:40,081 --> 01:08:42,401
Speaker 2: So that told us that she's never been registered as

1383
01:08:42,521 --> 01:08:45,881
Speaker 2: living in Luxembourg. And by the time we went back

1384
01:08:45,921 --> 01:08:48,121
Speaker 2: to their house, we'd actually driven all the way back

1385
01:08:48,121 --> 01:08:50,680
Speaker 2: into Luxembourg, and we'd been there three times this day,

1386
01:08:50,721 --> 01:08:52,721
Speaker 2: and it's an hour out and an hour back, so

1387
01:08:52,801 --> 01:08:54,601
Speaker 2: that's six hours of driving there and back and there

1388
01:08:54,641 --> 01:08:56,841
Speaker 2: and back, and in the car, my brain's just going

1389
01:08:56,921 --> 01:08:59,721
Speaker 2: a million miles an hour as to what's going on,

1390
01:08:59,881 --> 01:09:01,961
Speaker 2: Like it was crazy. We were up at three am

1391
01:09:02,001 --> 01:09:05,760
Speaker 2: in the morning and like, yeah, just absolutely mental. And

1392
01:09:05,921 --> 01:09:08,041
Speaker 2: we got back to his house and we did all

1393
01:09:08,041 --> 01:09:11,441
Speaker 2: of that, and then Brian and the cameraman came up

1394
01:09:11,481 --> 01:09:13,481
Speaker 2: to the door, so we saw Sarah and I left.

1395
01:09:13,481 --> 01:09:15,001
Speaker 2: He closed the door on our face and we left,

1396
01:09:15,561 --> 01:09:17,801
Speaker 2: and the cameraman and Brian come up to the door

1397
01:09:17,841 --> 01:09:19,481
Speaker 2: and they start knocking and say, we just would like

1398
01:09:19,521 --> 01:09:21,081
Speaker 2: to talk to you. We've just got a few questions

1399
01:09:21,081 --> 01:09:24,800
Speaker 2: to ask. And he's up the top sipping his tea

1400
01:09:25,481 --> 01:09:28,441
Speaker 2: videoing us as we're leaving, and then we just waited

1401
01:09:28,521 --> 01:09:31,601
Speaker 2: in the car, and then the police came, and so

1402
01:09:32,121 --> 01:09:34,760
Speaker 2: he walks out and comes and addresses the police. Brian

1403
01:09:34,961 --> 01:09:37,401
Speaker 2: and the cameraman and Sarah went up to the police

1404
01:09:37,441 --> 01:09:39,161
Speaker 2: and I sat in the car because I was just like,

1405
01:09:39,921 --> 01:09:41,521
Speaker 2: Oh my god, I don't know what's going on.

1406
01:09:41,601 --> 01:09:44,041
Speaker 1: I'm just really quite scared now. I just don't know

1407
01:09:44,081 --> 01:09:44,760
Speaker 1: what's happening.

1408
01:09:45,281 --> 01:09:48,001
Speaker 2: Anyway, it was all sort of Joe Bull and they

1409
01:09:48,001 --> 01:09:49,641
Speaker 2: were like, we've got nothing to do with her. I

1410
01:09:49,641 --> 01:09:52,041
Speaker 2: don't know who she is. I should also mention that

1411
01:09:52,121 --> 01:09:55,920
Speaker 2: this guy, mister Ramichel in Luxembourg was also a professional

1412
01:09:55,961 --> 01:09:58,720
Speaker 2: football player, so we were sort of putting the dots together,

1413
01:09:58,841 --> 01:10:01,721
Speaker 2: going did he meet Johnny Warren when Johnny Warren was

1414
01:10:01,721 --> 01:10:04,441
Speaker 2: just playing professional football because they're the same age, and

1415
01:10:04,521 --> 01:10:07,521
Speaker 2: so there was all all these weird coincidences that were

1416
01:10:07,561 --> 01:10:10,481
Speaker 2: just very linked. So we've got Luxembourg mum saying she's

1417
01:10:10,561 --> 01:10:14,281
Speaker 2: moving to Luxembourg permanently on her outgoing passenger card, yet

1418
01:10:14,321 --> 01:10:17,161
Speaker 2: she comes back into the country six weeks later. We've

1419
01:10:17,161 --> 01:10:19,960
Speaker 2: got her changing her name to this random name of Ramackurl,

1420
01:10:20,041 --> 01:10:23,680
Speaker 2: which there were no ramckeurls in Australia at all except

1421
01:10:23,681 --> 01:10:25,840
Speaker 2: for this ad in the paper and my mum changing

1422
01:10:25,841 --> 01:10:29,281
Speaker 2: her name. So we were just having a chat with

1423
01:10:29,321 --> 01:10:33,041
Speaker 2: them out the front, and we actually spoke to his

1424
01:10:33,121 --> 01:10:36,641
Speaker 2: ex wife. We found her details and gave her a

1425
01:10:36,681 --> 01:10:39,641
Speaker 2: phone call just to ask her some questions, and her

1426
01:10:39,721 --> 01:10:41,041
Speaker 2: name is Monique Cornelius.

1427
01:10:41,281 --> 01:10:43,761
Speaker 1: Turns out that a.

1428
01:10:43,761 --> 01:10:48,561
Speaker 2: Gentleman by the name of Reck Blum, who has admitted

1429
01:10:48,561 --> 01:10:51,401
Speaker 2: to having an affair with my mum in nineteen ninety

1430
01:10:51,401 --> 01:10:56,521
Speaker 2: seven prior to her disappearance, also was in a relationship

1431
01:10:56,561 --> 01:11:01,081
Speaker 2: with Monique Cornelius, who is Fernand Ramachel's ex wife, the

1432
01:11:01,121 --> 01:11:06,921
Speaker 2: real Fernand Ramachel. Mister Blum also admits to using Fernand

1433
01:11:07,001 --> 01:11:11,921
Speaker 2: Ramicel's identity and placing the ad in the paper in

1434
01:11:11,961 --> 01:11:16,161
Speaker 2: the La Courier Australian. He also had an international driver's

1435
01:11:16,161 --> 01:11:21,081
Speaker 2: license that he obtained in Queensland of the name Fernande Ramckel.

1436
01:11:21,921 --> 01:11:23,680
Speaker 1: In court, he actually accused my.

1437
01:11:23,721 --> 01:11:26,841
Speaker 2: Mum of stealing the driver's license so she could change

1438
01:11:26,841 --> 01:11:30,281
Speaker 2: her name to that name. So it's all very interesting.

1439
01:11:30,721 --> 01:11:34,241
Speaker 2: The journey itself has been quite wine boggling, And you

1440
01:11:34,281 --> 01:11:37,121
Speaker 2: know I said earlier that my goal was really to

1441
01:11:37,161 --> 01:11:39,321
Speaker 2: get to an inquest so we could do a full investigation.

1442
01:11:39,801 --> 01:11:42,121
Speaker 2: We did a petition. So on my way home on

1443
01:11:42,161 --> 01:11:44,081
Speaker 2: that flight, I came up with the idea, maybe if

1444
01:11:44,081 --> 01:11:47,321
Speaker 2: we do a petition, we can get some leverage. We

1445
01:11:47,401 --> 01:11:50,841
Speaker 2: had no reward or for information, and so everything just

1446
01:11:50,881 --> 01:11:53,561
Speaker 2: started to ballroll from this moment. So the ad in

1447
01:11:53,641 --> 01:11:58,041
Speaker 2: the paper that Jonie found super super important and that

1448
01:11:58,281 --> 01:12:01,641
Speaker 2: opened the case right up. How we found Rick Blum

1449
01:12:01,801 --> 01:12:04,481
Speaker 2: was another gentleman who was listening to the Lady Vanishers

1450
01:12:05,161 --> 01:12:09,641
Speaker 2: and he's always wanted to stay anonymous, but he's a local,

1451
01:12:09,801 --> 01:12:13,161
Speaker 2: and he took himself down to the Ballina library and

1452
01:12:13,201 --> 01:12:15,721
Speaker 2: because we had a phone number in the ad, and

1453
01:12:15,801 --> 01:12:18,041
Speaker 2: the police, like I remember Gary saying to me, oh,

1454
01:12:18,081 --> 01:12:19,561
Speaker 2: we've tried to find the phone number.

1455
01:12:19,561 --> 01:12:20,641
Speaker 1: Who owns the phone number?

1456
01:12:20,641 --> 01:12:23,641
Speaker 2: And it's this guy and he's retired and it definitely

1457
01:12:23,641 --> 01:12:26,481
Speaker 2: wouldn't have been him, and Telstra didn't have records that

1458
01:12:26,561 --> 01:12:29,881
Speaker 2: go back further than seven years. However, this gentleman just

1459
01:12:29,921 --> 01:12:32,361
Speaker 2: went down to the local library. He did hand scan

1460
01:12:32,681 --> 01:12:36,801
Speaker 2: thousands of entries and ran it through microfish. But then

1461
01:12:36,801 --> 01:12:39,281
Speaker 2: he found the phone number was connected to a business

1462
01:12:39,281 --> 01:12:43,680
Speaker 2: called Ballana Coin Investments that ran out of Ballana and

1463
01:12:43,921 --> 01:12:48,001
Speaker 2: the name of the owners of that company was Frederick

1464
01:12:48,081 --> 01:12:54,001
Speaker 2: de Heavidery and Diana Heavidaeriry. Frederic de Heavidery is also Reckblum,

1465
01:12:54,641 --> 01:12:57,241
Speaker 2: one of his fifty two aliases that he has used

1466
01:12:57,281 --> 01:13:00,760
Speaker 2: in Australia during his time here. He's a Belgium national

1467
01:13:01,521 --> 01:13:05,801
Speaker 2: who moved to Australia in the sixties and has been

1468
01:13:05,801 --> 01:13:09,961
Speaker 2: here ever since. So you know, at that point we

1469
01:13:10,001 --> 01:13:13,201
Speaker 2: had a really successful petition. So we had a lot

1470
01:13:13,201 --> 01:13:16,401
Speaker 2: of Australia and around the world behind me by this point,

1471
01:13:16,601 --> 01:13:20,121
Speaker 2: and we had over twenty seven thousand signatures on there,

1472
01:13:20,161 --> 01:13:22,201
Speaker 2: which then saw us get a two hundred and fifty

1473
01:13:22,241 --> 01:13:25,801
Speaker 2: thousand dollars reward by New South Wales Police noted for

1474
01:13:25,841 --> 01:13:27,361
Speaker 2: my mum, which was a breakthrough for me.

1475
01:13:27,441 --> 01:13:29,921
Speaker 1: I was like, wow, you guys haven't even recognized she's

1476
01:13:29,961 --> 01:13:30,521
Speaker 1: been missing.

1477
01:13:31,001 --> 01:13:34,481
Speaker 2: Now she's a missing person and you've got a reward

1478
01:13:34,481 --> 01:13:37,281
Speaker 2: out for her. And at that same point I had

1479
01:13:37,281 --> 01:13:39,681
Speaker 2: written to the New South Wales coroner It's Court and

1480
01:13:39,721 --> 01:13:42,521
Speaker 2: asked if they would consider having an inquest or holding

1481
01:13:42,521 --> 01:13:47,041
Speaker 2: an inquest, and they did so. After months of waiting,

1482
01:13:47,081 --> 01:13:50,921
Speaker 2: I finally got the okay and all this while I've

1483
01:13:50,961 --> 01:13:54,201
Speaker 2: got Gary Sheen telling me, well it's really not a

1484
01:13:54,241 --> 01:13:56,881
Speaker 2: New South Wales case. It should be a Queensland case,

1485
01:13:57,001 --> 01:14:00,561
Speaker 2: because you know your mum was living in Queensland. But

1486
01:14:00,721 --> 01:14:03,361
Speaker 2: our argument was her last know and movement. So we

1487
01:14:03,441 --> 01:14:06,081
Speaker 2: know that her Medicare card was used in Grafton after

1488
01:14:06,121 --> 01:14:09,001
Speaker 2: she came back. We know that about the withdrawals of

1489
01:14:09,041 --> 01:14:11,681
Speaker 2: her money in Byron Bay and in burly Heads, and

1490
01:14:11,721 --> 01:14:14,760
Speaker 2: then on the fifteenth of October there was eighty thousand

1491
01:14:14,841 --> 01:14:18,521
Speaker 2: dollars electronically transferred out of her bank account to another

1492
01:14:18,561 --> 01:14:23,681
Speaker 2: bank account. Mister Blum opened a bank security envelope with

1493
01:14:23,761 --> 01:14:27,281
Speaker 2: the Commonwealth Bank, the same bank the day before the

1494
01:14:27,321 --> 01:14:30,041
Speaker 2: eighty thousand dollars were withdrawn from my mum's bank account,

1495
01:14:30,481 --> 01:14:30,801
Speaker 2: and he.

1496
01:14:30,801 --> 01:14:32,161
Speaker 1: Closed it thirteen days later.

1497
01:14:33,201 --> 01:14:35,081
Speaker 2: No proof that he has the money or that it

1498
01:14:35,121 --> 01:14:39,481
Speaker 2: went there, but as a lot of coincidences or circumstances

1499
01:14:39,521 --> 01:14:42,161
Speaker 2: that you might go that was quite interesting, and the

1500
01:14:42,241 --> 01:14:46,641
Speaker 2: coroner did make mention of that in her findings spoiler alert.

1501
01:14:46,921 --> 01:14:51,920
Speaker 2: We ended up getting an inquest and that was extremely

1502
01:14:51,921 --> 01:14:55,521
Speaker 2: difficult process. I ended up on heart medication. My resting

1503
01:14:55,561 --> 01:14:58,441
Speaker 2: heart rate was up to one ninety beats per minute

1504
01:14:59,601 --> 01:15:04,321
Speaker 2: and you know it tore my family apart. Not myself,

1505
01:15:04,361 --> 01:15:06,481
Speaker 2: increased my been and my kids. But you know, my

1506
01:15:06,601 --> 01:15:09,840
Speaker 2: mum's family don't talk to me anymore since the podcast

1507
01:15:09,881 --> 01:15:12,481
Speaker 2: was launched, and you know, we've had to be open

1508
01:15:12,521 --> 01:15:14,921
Speaker 2: and honest about what's happened and how things have been

1509
01:15:15,601 --> 01:15:19,321
Speaker 2: handled and what's transpired. And it really puts a bomb

1510
01:15:19,841 --> 01:15:22,921
Speaker 2: in your world and it explodes pretty hard, and at

1511
01:15:22,921 --> 01:15:24,161
Speaker 2: the end of the day, you're the one left to

1512
01:15:24,161 --> 01:15:27,801
Speaker 2: pick up the pieces. And I'm really grateful because I've

1513
01:15:27,841 --> 01:15:30,561
Speaker 2: had quite a lot of people who have stood by

1514
01:15:30,601 --> 01:15:33,081
Speaker 2: my side very firmly for a long time, helping me,

1515
01:15:33,681 --> 01:15:35,841
Speaker 2: and they were there to support me and care for

1516
01:15:35,921 --> 01:15:38,481
Speaker 2: me and check in on me. But you know, the

1517
01:15:38,521 --> 01:15:41,920
Speaker 2: person who's stuck by me the longest and the hardest

1518
01:15:41,961 --> 01:15:44,441
Speaker 2: is Jooning. She came in and she said, I'm here

1519
01:15:44,841 --> 01:15:47,321
Speaker 2: until you tell me to stop. I'm going to keep

1520
01:15:47,321 --> 01:15:50,001
Speaker 2: going and I'm going to keep helping you. And she's

1521
01:15:50,041 --> 01:15:54,001
Speaker 2: been instrumental in helping me. So we had the findings

1522
01:15:54,361 --> 01:15:57,201
Speaker 2: in February last year, and that was the first time

1523
01:15:57,241 --> 01:16:00,521
Speaker 2: I've actually heard the words that my mum is officially deceased.

1524
01:16:01,561 --> 01:16:06,041
Speaker 2: And at that point, you know, the finding things was

1525
01:16:06,081 --> 01:16:08,161
Speaker 2: held at Lincoln Court in Sydney, and I put a

1526
01:16:08,161 --> 01:16:10,121
Speaker 2: call out on Facebook and I said, if anyone would

1527
01:16:10,161 --> 01:16:12,281
Speaker 2: like to come and support you know, I've got no family,

1528
01:16:12,361 --> 01:16:14,441
Speaker 2: so if you can come and help support me, that

1529
01:16:14,481 --> 01:16:17,001
Speaker 2: would be amazing, and just wear a splash of green.

1530
01:16:17,161 --> 01:16:20,001
Speaker 2: And we arrived at the court to an absolute sea

1531
01:16:20,041 --> 01:16:23,161
Speaker 2: of green. The concrete was covered with human bodies who

1532
01:16:23,201 --> 01:16:24,961
Speaker 2: were there to support me and give me a hug.

1533
01:16:25,001 --> 01:16:27,841
Speaker 2: And it was the nicest feeling I've had. Because none

1534
01:16:27,841 --> 01:16:30,481
Speaker 2: of Mum's sisters came. We only had one of her

1535
01:16:30,481 --> 01:16:33,961
Speaker 2: friends come, Catherine Greenwood, who's one of Mum's really good

1536
01:16:34,001 --> 01:16:36,881
Speaker 2: friends from her Sussex similar days, and Mum taught her

1537
01:16:37,001 --> 01:16:39,361
Speaker 2: daughter Sally. Her name is Sally as well, so her

1538
01:16:39,361 --> 01:16:42,201
Speaker 2: and her daughter came. But outside of that, it was

1539
01:16:42,361 --> 01:16:45,881
Speaker 2: just people. The people came and the people helped me.

1540
01:16:45,961 --> 01:16:48,561
Speaker 2: And at the end of the day, this podcast has

1541
01:16:48,601 --> 01:16:51,241
Speaker 2: actually been built on support of care of people. And

1542
01:16:51,281 --> 01:16:53,481
Speaker 2: I've always said people power was the power of the

1543
01:16:53,481 --> 01:16:56,561
Speaker 2: people who actually get us through and get the information,

1544
01:16:56,641 --> 01:16:59,321
Speaker 2: because people know stuff and it might be just the

1545
01:16:59,361 --> 01:17:02,800
Speaker 2: smallest little inkling of information, but it actually can follow

1546
01:17:02,881 --> 01:17:07,721
Speaker 2: through to huge things and that's what's really projected us

1547
01:17:07,761 --> 01:17:11,361
Speaker 2: onto this journey, and the inquest ended, but it didn't

1548
01:17:11,441 --> 01:17:13,001
Speaker 2: end for Joanie and I, but I said to her

1549
01:17:13,041 --> 01:17:15,720
Speaker 2: there's still more to do, and she agreed to help

1550
01:17:15,801 --> 01:17:19,241
Speaker 2: me continue where we are today. So what I wanted

1551
01:17:19,241 --> 01:17:23,841
Speaker 2: to share with everybody was the journey after the findings,

1552
01:17:24,601 --> 01:17:29,041
Speaker 2: because for me, being told my mum was deceased was

1553
01:17:29,081 --> 01:17:33,041
Speaker 2: not a surprise to me, but it meant that I

1554
01:17:33,121 --> 01:17:37,281
Speaker 2: could do things and propel the story and the investigation further.

1555
01:17:37,841 --> 01:17:40,281
Speaker 2: I then had a death certificate, something I haven't had

1556
01:17:40,281 --> 01:17:44,241
Speaker 2: for twenty six years. And there's more to do, There's

1557
01:17:44,281 --> 01:17:46,961
Speaker 2: more to look at. There's lots of things that weren't

1558
01:17:47,401 --> 01:17:51,121
Speaker 2: done at the inquest, Like we were asking questions and

1559
01:17:51,201 --> 01:17:54,840
Speaker 2: wanting more information and we were getting told the inquest

1560
01:17:54,881 --> 01:17:57,921
Speaker 2: is about two things, Sally. The inquest is is your

1561
01:17:57,961 --> 01:18:00,801
Speaker 2: mum dead or alive? And did the police do their job?

1562
01:18:01,201 --> 01:18:03,361
Speaker 2: They were the two points about the inquest. It had

1563
01:18:03,441 --> 01:18:06,801
Speaker 2: nothing to do with anybody else, any other person. It

1564
01:18:06,921 --> 01:18:10,001
Speaker 2: was just about those two elements, So anything else really

1565
01:18:10,441 --> 01:18:13,161
Speaker 2: was null and void as far as the coroner was concerned.

1566
01:18:13,201 --> 01:18:15,961
Speaker 2: Her job was to determine those two things, and she

1567
01:18:16,041 --> 01:18:19,361
Speaker 2: determined that my mum had died. On or around the

1568
01:18:19,401 --> 01:18:22,561
Speaker 2: fifteenth of October nineteen ninety seven, when the eighty thousand

1569
01:18:22,601 --> 01:18:27,361
Speaker 2: dollars was withdrawn on the second count. She determined that

1570
01:18:28,401 --> 01:18:31,521
Speaker 2: the failure by New South Wales Police to do their

1571
01:18:31,601 --> 01:18:36,761
Speaker 2: job properly between nineteen ninety seven and twenty nineteen was

1572
01:18:36,801 --> 01:18:39,201
Speaker 2: the main reason that my mum is still missing today,

1573
01:18:39,401 --> 01:18:43,961
Speaker 2: and had they followed procedure properly and had followed the

1574
01:18:44,001 --> 01:18:47,481
Speaker 2: Commissioner's handbook as to how you deal with and handle

1575
01:18:47,521 --> 01:18:51,241
Speaker 2: a missing person's case, my mum would potentially have been

1576
01:18:51,281 --> 01:18:59,361
Speaker 2: found