WEBVTT - Paul Murray Live | 15 September 0:00:02.640 --> 0:00:07.530 This is Paul Murray Live. Thank you very much, Sherry. 0:00:07.550 --> 0:00:09.470 A reminder, the book is out. It is out now. 0:00:09.510 --> 0:00:11.890 It is Bondi Terror. Please read it. It's an important 0:00:12.150 --> 0:00:14.910 piece of investigative journalism and also a highlighting of all 0:00:14.940 --> 0:00:17.180 of those lives that have been lost and how maybe, 0:00:17.220 --> 0:00:20.180 just maybe, we can prevent this stuff happening into the future. Alright, 0:00:20.220 --> 0:00:22.140 I've got something a little bit dangerous for you tonight. 0:00:22.850 --> 0:00:26.360 some good news. Remember the little 12-year-old Dusty who walked 0:00:26.460 --> 0:00:29.120 all the way from a country town in New South Wales? Well, 0:00:29.140 --> 0:00:30.620 he's made it all the way to the Prime Minister 0:00:31.180 --> 0:00:33.760 and he's raised some serious money along the way. Regardless 0:00:33.780 --> 0:00:35.440 of whether you like or dislike the bloke on the 0:00:35.500 --> 0:00:38.080 left-hand side of the screen, it is all praise for 0:00:38.100 --> 0:00:42.220 this little kid. He did something amazing today. He's been 0:00:42.300 --> 0:00:43.830 doing it for the past two weeks. He's been doing 0:00:43.840 --> 0:00:45.190 it with his mum and all of his family. We 0:00:45.210 --> 0:00:47.690 will celebrate him and what that announcement is in a 0:00:47.710 --> 0:00:50.070 moment or two's time. We'll also check in with the 0:00:50.110 --> 0:00:52.530 veterans groups who are keeping the pressure on the government 0:00:53.409 --> 0:00:57.450 when it comes to the allied health cap. Now, yesterday, 0:00:57.490 --> 0:01:01.450 the parliament decided to delay until next month to have 0:01:01.470 --> 0:01:03.590 to deal with the Senate, who, of course, all bar Labor, 0:01:03.830 --> 0:01:06.030 voted to get rid of the cap. We keep the 0:01:06.069 --> 0:01:08.550 pressure on, we'll do that, and an old mate returns. 0:01:09.030 --> 0:01:11.230 Way too long since Nigel Farage has been on the show, 0:01:11.280 --> 0:01:14.759 but the reform leader will be with us in moments. 0:01:15.180 --> 0:01:17.179 A reminder as well that when we're going to Bathurst 0:01:17.240 --> 0:01:19.560 in a couple of weeks' time, I love it, not 0:01:19.620 --> 0:01:22.450 just because of the race... but because I've got beautiful 0:01:22.510 --> 0:01:26.720 friends there. The amazing Motor Museum, looking forward to returning 0:01:26.760 --> 0:01:29.720 there a couple of weeks out from the Bathurst 1000. 0:01:29.720 --> 0:01:33.080 But Sunday the 27th, in the shadow of Brockie, we 0:01:33.120 --> 0:01:35.800 will be there. Sunday the 27th of September, if you 0:01:35.819 --> 0:01:38.220 would like to join us in Bathurst, come on down 0:01:38.240 --> 0:01:41.569 from Oberon, come across from Lithgow, make your way across 0:01:41.590 --> 0:01:43.650 from Orange or just turn up from the other side 0:01:43.670 --> 0:01:50.620 of town, our town. at news24. com. au, ourtown at news24. com. au. So 0:01:51.590 --> 0:01:53.510 the Prime Minister, as much as he would love to 0:01:53.550 --> 0:01:55.290 change the subject, is not going to be able to 0:01:55.310 --> 0:01:58.670 change the subject from the giant red-hot rorts that we've 0:01:58.690 --> 0:02:00.770 been talking about for the past couple of weeks, the 0:02:00.850 --> 0:02:05.080 ones that were exposed by the Centre for Public Integrity. 0:02:05.230 --> 0:02:06.260 Their report we went. 0:02:06.160 --> 0:02:08.600 Through in chapter and verse last week. If you're just 0:02:08.639 --> 0:02:11.600 joining us, this was about half a B4 billion dollars 0:02:12.139 --> 0:02:14.019 worth of money that the Labor Party decided to hand 0:02:14.080 --> 0:02:17.900 out to itself. only basically going to the seats that 0:02:18.010 --> 0:02:21.800 electorally mattered, but to make it look bipartisan. Oh, there 0:02:21.820 --> 0:02:23.419 was a little bit for the Libs and a little 0:02:23.440 --> 0:02:26.520 bit for not the Libs, but 409 of the more 0:02:26.560 --> 0:02:29.339 than half AB $ 4 billion happened to end up where 0:02:29.360 --> 0:02:32.940 the Labor Party wanted it to go. Even the ABC 0:02:33.410 --> 0:02:34.870 noticed that this stinks. 0:02:36.490 --> 0:02:39.750 The Centre for Public Integrity, a not-for-profit made up of 0:02:39.830 --> 0:02:44.050 former judges, lawyers and academics, has found the grants heavily 0:02:44.130 --> 0:02:48.040 favoured Labor... especially in the marginal seats the party wanted 0:02:48.120 --> 0:02:48.519 to win. 0:02:49.320 --> 0:02:52.959 Prima facie, it looks like the misuse of public money 0:02:53.460 --> 0:02:56.060 or serious pork barrelling, as it's sometimes called. 0:02:57.250 --> 0:03:00.530 So a Senate inquiry into that, that we'll be reporting 0:03:00.550 --> 0:03:01.850 back in the next couple of months. But as soon 0:03:01.870 --> 0:03:04.450 as those hearings start, oh, we're across it all day, 0:03:04.610 --> 0:03:08.060 every day. and every little bit of this dirty, dirty deal. 0:03:08.120 --> 0:03:11.370 And it remains the lead story tonight because there's another 0:03:11.440 --> 0:03:14.010 bit of detail to this. And it all happens to 0:03:14.050 --> 0:03:20.190 do with federal government money going into the prevention of crime. Now, 0:03:20.370 --> 0:03:22.370 for a long time, federal government money has started to 0:03:22.410 --> 0:03:27.240 get involved in things like CCDV cameras. But surprise, surprise, 0:03:28.400 --> 0:03:29.000 an awful. 0:03:28.780 --> 0:03:31.060 Lot of it only went where Labor wanted it to go. 0:03:32.240 --> 0:03:35.120 Crime only happens in Labor seats, is the claim from 0:03:35.160 --> 0:03:39.320 the Coalition, and Labor leveraged an invite-only $ 20 million fund 0:03:39.410 --> 0:03:44.070 to install CCTV networks across critical electorates, prioritising its own 0:03:44.210 --> 0:03:49.210 seats and high-value Coalition targets before the last election. The 0:03:49.250 --> 0:03:54.840 safety program funded 20 upgrades, 17 of which benefit seats 0:03:55.200 --> 0:03:59.540 that Labor had held before the election. Of the non-Labor seats... 0:03:59.900 --> 0:04:02.680 The upgrade was used for one of the places they 0:04:02.740 --> 0:04:05.300 wanted to take over, which, of course, they successfully did, 0:04:05.640 --> 0:04:08.310 the seat of Dixon, held formerly by Peter Dutton out 0:04:08.330 --> 0:04:12.690 of Brisbane, and Petrie, which also was picked up by 0:04:12.730 --> 0:04:15.310 Labor in their run through South East Queensland during the 0:04:15.410 --> 0:04:22.440 election in 2025. From the opposition, their spokesperson on this 0:04:22.480 --> 0:04:25.080 is a bloke called Ben Small. He is the assistant 0:04:25.120 --> 0:04:29.620 spokesperson for infrastructure. And he says, unbelievably, crime only seems 0:04:29.710 --> 0:04:33.130 to be a problem in Labor-held seats. Nothing in these 0:04:33.170 --> 0:04:35.830 numbers passes the pub test. Labor set their own test 0:04:35.910 --> 0:04:38.870 for this expenditure in opposition time and time again. They've 0:04:38.890 --> 0:04:42.210 been caught red-handed now and with their hand in the 0:04:42.230 --> 0:04:45.250 cookie jar, but it is the taxpayers who foot the 0:04:45.290 --> 0:04:48.409 bill for these cookies. Well said. Now, you would have 0:04:48.430 --> 0:04:51.590 thought that, given that it was the non-partisan group who 0:04:51.890 --> 0:04:53.960 blew the whistle on this last week, the fact that 0:04:54.120 --> 0:04:56.440 even the ABC couldn't deny it, that there'd be a 0:04:56.480 --> 0:04:59.219 chance that the people whose full-time professional job is to 0:04:59.240 --> 0:05:01.400 talk about politics might have found a way to talk 0:05:01.420 --> 0:05:04.520 about this today as yet another example of the Labor 0:05:04.560 --> 0:05:09.070 Party setting up a scheme that turned into a slush fund. But, 0:05:09.110 --> 0:05:11.190 you know, they like being tucked in at night, so, 0:05:11.210 --> 0:05:13.590 you know, one-day story, move on, nothing to see here, 0:05:13.650 --> 0:05:16.900 nothing to see here, because basically there was bugger all. 0:05:17.510 --> 0:05:19.589 reporting about this today outside of what I have just 0:05:19.730 --> 0:05:22.729 read to you. Instead, of course, the throngs had to 0:05:22.770 --> 0:05:25.180 be there because Pauline Hanson did an interview here on 0:05:25.339 --> 0:05:28.200 News 24. And because they didn't want to run in 0:05:28.240 --> 0:05:31.500 all of their news bulletins any images of Pauline Hanson 0:05:31.520 --> 0:05:34.260 appearing on this channel, they decided to camp out the 0:05:34.300 --> 0:05:38.430 front of our studio in Canberra. And because she can't move, 0:05:38.610 --> 0:05:41.650 she has to answer questions where she had already answered 0:05:41.670 --> 0:05:44.390 them here on the air at News 24, where, of course, 0:05:44.589 --> 0:05:49.190 she had given an apology to... The comments which were 0:05:49.290 --> 0:05:53.050 resurfaced from the podcast way back when about Indigenous Australians. 0:05:53.089 --> 0:05:55.070 You know the story by now, but I can't ignore 0:05:55.110 --> 0:05:57.830 the apology because apparently that was the single biggest thing 0:05:58.170 --> 0:05:59.589 that happened in Canberra today. 0:06:01.770 --> 0:06:06.099 I regret saying that because I don't want to upset people. 0:06:06.740 --> 0:06:10.800 That's not my intentions. That was my intentions to hurt people. 0:06:13.000 --> 0:06:13.100 Now. 0:06:13.430 --> 0:06:17.060 Again, let's talk here about migration and One Nation and 0:06:17.100 --> 0:06:20.800 their turn here when it comes to dealing with migration. Remember, 0:06:21.460 --> 0:06:24.419 of those who care about migration as the biggest issue, 0:06:24.700 --> 0:06:27.339 by far One Nation is the party that people turn 0:06:27.380 --> 0:06:30.670 to to solve the problem. What is the problem here? No, 0:06:30.700 --> 0:06:32.750 it is not cultural. What is the problem here? It 0:06:32.790 --> 0:06:35.890 is too many people, not enough infrastructure, right? Again, the 0:06:35.930 --> 0:06:37.970 point that Pauline Hanson has made today. 0:06:39.450 --> 0:06:43.380 Tinkering around the edges will not fix the damage... For 0:06:43.420 --> 0:06:47.440 a period of three years, we will deliver net negative 0:06:47.520 --> 0:06:51.460 migration by drastically cutting the number of temporary visa holders. 0:06:52.460 --> 0:06:55.310 We will take back control of who comes here and 0:06:55.390 --> 0:06:56.830 how many we accept. 0:06:58.490 --> 0:07:01.390 People like this, right? Not because they're inherent racists, but 0:07:01.450 --> 0:07:04.990 because every poll, every time, the same question comes back. 0:07:05.270 --> 0:07:07.160 And the numbers have got bigger and bigger and bigger 0:07:07.260 --> 0:07:11.710 since this government took office. which is too many people 0:07:11.790 --> 0:07:14.950 being added to every potential queue you can think of 0:07:15.120 --> 0:07:18.760 in the country, let alone the infrastructure that is required. But, 0:07:18.780 --> 0:07:20.720 of course, the bitching and moaning, well, from the vested 0:07:20.760 --> 0:07:24.420 interests who need us to just continue adding to every 0:07:24.480 --> 0:07:27.540 queue because it helps their business model, well, they're, of course, 0:07:27.600 --> 0:07:30.120 screaming from the rooftops. But good luck getting the majority 0:07:30.140 --> 0:07:35.650 of Australians to truly, truly start to be offended by 0:07:35.690 --> 0:07:39.870 the idea of things like family reunion for students being 0:07:39.910 --> 0:07:42.400 pulled back. Again, if you go and want to study 0:07:42.430 --> 0:07:44.390 in Japan, study in Japan, but you don't then get 0:07:44.410 --> 0:07:46.630 to become a Japanese citizen and then you get to 0:07:47.310 --> 0:07:49.670 import the family as well. No, come here, study, fine, 0:07:49.730 --> 0:07:52.210 pay the upfront fees, but then see you later, off 0:07:52.250 --> 0:07:56.130 you go. That's the way it should be, right? Now, 0:07:56.190 --> 0:07:59.500 apparently it's going to shut down university campuses, though, because, again, 0:07:59.740 --> 0:08:02.360 the one thing Australians are absolutely going to, you know, 0:08:02.600 --> 0:08:04.500 jump into a ditch for, and that is to fight 0:08:04.560 --> 0:08:07.840 for the universities whose vice chancellors are paid three times 0:08:07.880 --> 0:08:10.690 more than the Prime Minister. the hotbeds of you name 0:08:10.740 --> 0:08:16.260 it when it comes to anti-Semitism, social cohesion or over-the-top wokeness, 0:08:16.440 --> 0:08:19.820 good luck. Now, Labor seems to have a response to 0:08:19.880 --> 0:08:22.340 all of this, which is no response in terms of 0:08:22.520 --> 0:08:25.900 engaging with the numbers, engaging with the idea. Instead, they're 0:08:25.920 --> 0:08:28.580 now just sort of pretending that it doesn't really matter 0:08:28.620 --> 0:08:31.140 because it's not politics as usual when you make an 0:08:31.200 --> 0:08:32.040 announcement like this. 0:08:33.460 --> 0:08:38.280 This is an economy-wrecking policy designed for social media, not 0:08:38.320 --> 0:08:38.880 for reality. 0:08:40.760 --> 0:08:43.719 Well, dare I introduce you to the communications minister who 0:08:43.740 --> 0:08:45.800 was trying to talk about housing policy in Ooshies. But 0:08:46.640 --> 0:08:48.460 in and around all of that, let's get back again 0:08:48.540 --> 0:08:51.520 to the social media bill that is currently before the parliament, 0:08:51.900 --> 0:08:54.250 the one that we've discussed in great detail, but one 0:08:54.260 --> 0:08:57.890 that I have spent the day actually studying the detail of, 0:08:58.290 --> 0:09:01.390 and I want to explain what is happening here. Now, remember, 0:09:01.830 --> 0:09:04.550 all of this was sold to us from virtually on 0:09:04.670 --> 0:09:07.390 day one as being about one thing. 0:09:09.050 --> 0:09:11.930 This is about choice. the choice for an adult to 0:09:11.950 --> 0:09:14.870 decide what their default feed will be, the algorithm or 0:09:14.890 --> 0:09:17.949 their following feed, their friends and the content creators they've 0:09:17.970 --> 0:09:18.890 chosen to follow. 0:09:19.710 --> 0:09:21.450 And as I have told you in chapter and verse, 0:09:21.630 --> 0:09:24.270 if that is all this is, then who can really 0:09:24.320 --> 0:09:27.680 get that fired up about it? But of course, the 0:09:27.700 --> 0:09:30.860 minister has not exactly covered herself in glory. She said, oh, 0:09:30.880 --> 0:09:34.140 maybe news organisations could be caught up in this. Define this, 0:09:34.179 --> 0:09:38.150 define that. But essentially... the way this has been sold 0:09:38.170 --> 0:09:40.630 to people, because remember the misinformation bill, it died a 0:09:40.650 --> 0:09:44.079 death because it was obviously a government crackdown when it 0:09:44.120 --> 0:09:47.880 came to what they believed to be anything but the 0:09:47.940 --> 0:09:50.540 truth that they have decided to be, COVID being a 0:09:50.620 --> 0:09:55.730 key example amongst it. But again, the media was more 0:09:55.750 --> 0:09:58.530 than happy to repeat the line that the changes were 0:09:58.670 --> 0:10:02.559 all essentially about one thing and one thing only, which 0:10:02.640 --> 0:10:04.189 was going after big bad tech. 0:10:05.750 --> 0:10:08.990 The way that each and every Australian uses social media 0:10:09.170 --> 0:10:12.490 could be about to change forever. Every Aussie may soon 0:10:12.550 --> 0:10:15.120 have the power to opt out of algorithms. 0:10:15.360 --> 0:10:19.280 This time to ban toxic algorithms and give Australian users 0:10:19.360 --> 0:10:22.859 the power to opt out. So, again, you've got to 0:10:22.880 --> 0:10:26.200 give it to this mob that... If at first they fail, 0:10:26.240 --> 0:10:29.020 they try and try again until they succeed, and they're 0:10:29.040 --> 0:10:32.319 trying a different pattern, and the cut they've put before 0:10:32.340 --> 0:10:35.030 the horse here is, again, this idea that all of 0:10:35.070 --> 0:10:37.150 this legislation is only about one thing, and it is 0:10:37.170 --> 0:10:39.410 to create that button that, as I have said, I 0:10:39.429 --> 0:10:41.670 don't think most people have a particular problem whether it 0:10:41.730 --> 0:10:45.850 exists or not. But those who have seen this play 0:10:45.890 --> 0:10:49.729 before used one word and one word only to describe 0:10:49.770 --> 0:10:52.650 the government getting involved in what turns up on people's 0:10:52.690 --> 0:10:53.610 social media feeds. 0:10:54.980 --> 0:10:58.720 It's a pretty dangerous bill because it allows the government 0:10:58.840 --> 0:11:01.020 to impose political censorship. 0:11:01.080 --> 0:11:03.900 What the government needs to do is give confidence to 0:11:03.940 --> 0:11:07.750 the Australian community that this isn't a backdoor pathway to censorship. 0:11:07.870 --> 0:11:12.250 The reality is it's providing a blank cheque for political 0:11:12.309 --> 0:11:16.810 censorship to the minister, to the government. So, what is 0:11:17.090 --> 0:11:22.410 actually in the law? Now, they have released the detail 0:11:22.450 --> 0:11:25.570 of that in what is called an exposure draft. Now, 0:11:25.610 --> 0:11:28.030 while I don't pretend at all to be a lawyer 0:11:28.270 --> 0:11:32.189 or an expert necessarily in how legislation is made, I 0:11:32.230 --> 0:11:35.550 want to take you through what is in it and 0:11:35.590 --> 0:11:41.170 what is not in the bill, okay? Now, essentially, you 0:11:41.190 --> 0:11:43.170 don't have to read every word here, just follow along 0:11:43.290 --> 0:11:46.319 right with the circled out colours. What they want to 0:11:46.360 --> 0:11:54.010 do is to design features... of service appropriability, including by 0:11:54.050 --> 0:11:59.109 providing user empowerment tool. So the empowerment tool, that's the 0:11:59.170 --> 0:12:02.210 first of those red boxes, is the chance to jump 0:12:02.450 --> 0:12:07.000 out of the algorithm, okay? Same thing in the second 0:12:07.040 --> 0:12:11.200 point that is being made there. All right, again, remember, 0:12:11.820 --> 0:12:16.230 the minister has constantly spoken about harm, harm, harm, right? 0:12:18.120 --> 0:12:22.120 Protecting Australians from illegal material and protecting children from harm 0:12:22.760 --> 0:12:25.660 should be a bipartisan priority. The draft digital duty of 0:12:25.700 --> 0:12:28.080 care is the next logical step in our battle to 0:12:28.120 --> 0:12:29.579 keep our kids safe online. 0:12:29.700 --> 0:12:33.460 And we'll require digital platforms to document the measures taken 0:12:33.960 --> 0:12:36.059 to address harm to Australian users. 0:12:37.559 --> 0:12:40.959 So, again, what do they define as harmful? Let me 0:12:40.980 --> 0:12:43.640 show you the long list of what they have put 0:12:43.679 --> 0:12:48.500 forward as being the idea here, which is... Again, don't 0:12:48.530 --> 0:12:51.540 pay attention to all of the detail in the next 0:12:51.580 --> 0:12:56.020 slide here. Instead, let's get to the specifics which are 0:12:56.080 --> 0:12:57.819 worth having a look at here. Okay, guys, if we 0:12:57.840 --> 0:12:59.060 can go to the one which is what do they 0:12:59.080 --> 0:13:01.960 define as harmful? It's the longer and bigger image there. 0:13:01.980 --> 0:13:02.040 No? 0:13:03.000 --> 0:13:04.439 Okay, that's the. 0:13:04.400 --> 0:13:04.699 One we need. 0:13:05.059 --> 0:13:05.300 All right. 0:13:05.520 --> 0:13:10.140 So what does it say? So I've annotated this. What 0:13:10.179 --> 0:13:14.300 do the laws declare as harmful? Okay. Anything that supports, 0:13:14.400 --> 0:13:20.050 advocates or encourages cruelty against animals. terrorist organisation or terrorism, 0:13:20.250 --> 0:13:23.030 commission of a crime, illicit use of drugs or instructs 0:13:23.150 --> 0:13:29.170 abhorrent violence conduct, okay? That's for everything, everywhere, okay? For kids, 0:13:29.210 --> 0:13:31.430 and remember, there's no social media for kids under the 0:13:31.470 --> 0:13:34.689 age of 16, apparently, but 16. 0:13:34.700 --> 0:13:35.740 17, 18. 0:13:35.740 --> 0:13:39.940 Also, they would declare harmful, i.e. what would be destroyed, 0:13:40.000 --> 0:13:43.000 what would not be able to be shown, content that 0:13:43.179 --> 0:13:48.920 supports or advocates or encourages pornography, disordered eating, Hostile attitudes 0:13:48.960 --> 0:13:52.660 towards women or gender equality. So that's right at the 0:13:52.700 --> 0:13:58.960 manosphere there. Dangerous stunts or harmful practices. Does that mean jackass? Abuse, 0:13:59.020 --> 0:14:02.500 harassment or bullying. Now, remember, this can be defined by 0:14:02.640 --> 0:14:08.260 the person whose feelings are on the wrong side of 0:14:08.320 --> 0:14:12.390 things as to whether this becomes harassment or not. Okay, again, 0:14:12.429 --> 0:14:15.210 we're starting to get wobbly. But then we get to 0:14:15.230 --> 0:14:18.780 the bit that is the whole point. It is the 0:14:18.900 --> 0:14:23.440 single power of the pen of the minister to decide 0:14:23.960 --> 0:14:27.140 what is harmful. And if the minister decides it to 0:14:27.180 --> 0:14:30.540 be harmful, the eSafety Commissioner, along with the minister, is 0:14:30.680 --> 0:14:33.250 able to tell the social media platform, get rid of it, 0:14:33.260 --> 0:14:35.920 because if you don't, we are coming with massive fines. 0:14:37.420 --> 0:14:42.010 The minister may, by legislative instrument, determine material or conduct, 0:14:42.690 --> 0:14:45.430 or a combination of material and conduct, that the minister 0:14:45.470 --> 0:14:51.140 is satisfied may cause serious harm. Why does this matter? 0:14:52.840 --> 0:14:55.500 Because it is one thing for the legislation to say 0:14:55.560 --> 0:14:58.180 cruelty to animals, one thing to say about illicit drug use, 0:14:58.260 --> 0:15:02.470 one thing to say about pornography, eating disorders, hostile attitudes 0:15:02.510 --> 0:15:06.430 towards women and gender equality. But then there's just the, 0:15:07.050 --> 0:15:10.640 and anything else. Now, the reality is, is that this 0:15:10.700 --> 0:15:14.020 is not a word that is avoided by the minister. 0:15:14.540 --> 0:15:21.050 The word harmful is well and truly in her lexicon. Harmful, harmful, harmful, harmful. 0:15:22.490 --> 0:15:27.150 And what constitutes harm? Well, previously, a lack of trust 0:15:27.210 --> 0:15:30.550 in our institutions has been interpreted as something that could 0:15:30.570 --> 0:15:34.790 be potentially ruled as harmful, which would mean what to 0:15:34.830 --> 0:15:36.570 what you can see on social media. 0:15:37.930 --> 0:15:40.980 A lady came to talk to me about her various 0:15:41.020 --> 0:15:44.480 grievances and I was struck by how I could say 0:15:44.520 --> 0:15:47.620 to her, I'm a member of the cabinet. That's not true. 0:15:47.980 --> 0:15:51.700 We're not doing that. That's a scare campaign from online. 0:15:52.040 --> 0:15:54.500 And she didn't believe me. The power of online is 0:15:54.540 --> 0:15:57.380 so strong. The power of the algorithm is so strong 0:15:57.420 --> 0:16:02.420 that it is overwhelming our public institutions and the decline 0:16:02.440 --> 0:16:04.040 of trust is problematic for everybody. 0:16:05.140 --> 0:16:09.210 So again, if a single person, is able to define 0:16:09.230 --> 0:16:12.950 it themselves, you end up with a definition of harm. 0:16:13.510 --> 0:16:15.530 And what's the difference between harm and serious harm? It's 0:16:15.570 --> 0:16:19.880 not written inside that law. The definition becomes a little 0:16:19.920 --> 0:16:23.280 bit like, as we've seen before, where things like sexual 0:16:23.300 --> 0:16:29.250 harassment becomes sexual misconduct, where the definition is a mile 0:16:29.330 --> 0:16:34.700 wide and just a few millimeters deep. And again, remember 0:16:34.740 --> 0:16:37.280 the pressure that would exist on any politician given that 0:16:37.460 --> 0:16:42.720 singular power. Because the people who have been in the 0:16:42.760 --> 0:16:45.400 cabinet room, who have heard of this plan, who have 0:16:45.480 --> 0:16:49.560 seen it being drafted, look what they talk about when 0:16:49.600 --> 0:16:52.120 it comes to the things that we should be banning 0:16:52.500 --> 0:16:56.340 from social media. This is a cabinet minister. 0:16:58.820 --> 0:17:01.540 Remember when social media used to be social, when it 0:17:01.580 --> 0:17:03.820 was about connection, when it was about seeing what your 0:17:03.840 --> 0:17:08.220 cousin overseas was up to, watching your sister-in-law get married? Well, 0:17:08.260 --> 0:17:11.830 today it seems it's just all about pushing hate and 0:17:11.869 --> 0:17:15.830 misogyny and misinformation and disinformation, all in the name of 0:17:15.869 --> 0:17:21.520 an algorithm that serves the interests of large companies. Well, 0:17:21.540 --> 0:17:24.960 Labor's doing something about that. Yeah, you should have control 0:17:25.070 --> 0:17:27.330 about what you see in your feeds. You should be 0:17:27.390 --> 0:17:31.290 able to opt out of the algorithm that pushes damaging content, 0:17:31.350 --> 0:17:33.610 not just to you, but to your children as well. 0:17:34.150 --> 0:17:37.410 And if you don't believe me about the algorithm, just 0:17:37.430 --> 0:17:38.950 have a look at some of the comments that I get. 0:17:38.970 --> 0:17:45.240 Hang on, the comments section now? Again, this is the point. 0:17:45.740 --> 0:17:51.100 This is why you cannot give undefined powers to someone... who, 0:17:51.140 --> 0:17:53.550 when sitting around a cabinet table, has people sitting around saying, well, 0:17:53.570 --> 0:17:55.070 what are we doing about the comments section? Don't worry, 0:17:55.210 --> 0:17:59.109 I've got serious... What did they say? Well, that's harmful. No, 0:17:59.150 --> 0:18:02.280 in fact, that's seriously harmful. Bang, gone. If you don't 0:18:02.320 --> 0:18:05.440 get rid of it, you get the point, right? This 0:18:05.520 --> 0:18:08.399 is the key to the argument. As presented, it's all 0:18:08.440 --> 0:18:10.580 about the social media algorithm, whether you follow your friends 0:18:10.640 --> 0:18:13.689 or whether you have other stuff that turns up, limiting 0:18:13.710 --> 0:18:15.909 the types of stuff that turns up. fine if you 0:18:15.990 --> 0:18:18.419 are defining all of that. But the big red pen, 0:18:18.460 --> 0:18:20.400 in this case black, I know, but still, the big 0:18:20.460 --> 0:18:23.100 red pen in the hand of any politician, including think 0:18:23.119 --> 0:18:25.830 of the one that you despise the most, is the 0:18:25.850 --> 0:18:30.650 reason why that power shouldn't be given. Another example about 0:18:30.710 --> 0:18:35.100 how a leader of a government has tried to pretend 0:18:35.490 --> 0:18:37.870 that social media is wildly out of control and now 0:18:37.970 --> 0:18:43.350 affecting political results? Would this be a definition of serious harm? 0:18:43.369 --> 0:18:46.090 I would think the Premier in Western Australia, after getting 0:18:46.130 --> 0:18:48.629 his ass handed to him in Secret Harbour, might be 0:18:48.670 --> 0:18:49.580 wanting a change. 0:18:50.859 --> 0:18:55.720 We've all seen some of the incredibly toxic and poisonous 0:18:55.760 --> 0:18:59.540 social media activity coming from bots and trolls, both on 0:18:59.560 --> 0:19:00.980 the east coast and overseas. 0:19:02.540 --> 0:19:04.800 Now, one thing that's also desperately important in all of 0:19:04.840 --> 0:19:06.879 this is that we have to start seeing what people 0:19:07.040 --> 0:19:08.980 think about this. As best as I could see, there's 0:19:09.020 --> 0:19:11.760 really only one example of public polling, and it comes 0:19:11.840 --> 0:19:16.340 from the Australian Institute, otherwise known as the Greens Institute. 0:19:17.040 --> 0:19:18.900 And their headline doesn't even tell the truth about their 0:19:18.920 --> 0:19:22.220 own polling. Digital care, duty of care laws don't go 0:19:22.280 --> 0:19:26.240 far enough. Well, that doesn't exist as a question in 0:19:26.540 --> 0:19:29.180 any of the polling that they did. Yes, there's a 0:19:29.180 --> 0:19:32.139 very significant number of people who want very serious penalties. 0:19:32.160 --> 0:19:34.400 There are even a percentage of people who don't want fines, 0:19:34.420 --> 0:19:37.300 they want jail. But there is no direct question, which is, 0:19:37.340 --> 0:19:39.200 do you approve or disapprove of what is currently being 0:19:39.220 --> 0:19:41.649 planned by the government? There is no question. Do you 0:19:41.670 --> 0:19:44.230 approve or disapprove of the power of the minister to 0:19:44.250 --> 0:19:46.669 be able to make decisions outside of what has been 0:19:46.690 --> 0:19:50.830 defined by the parliament? I'd be fascinated. to see. Hopefully 0:19:50.869 --> 0:19:53.530 there's a poll sometime soon that gets us to tell that. 0:19:54.050 --> 0:19:58.369 But the reality here is that the Greens are probably 0:19:58.390 --> 0:20:01.300 going to help pass this, which means until we tell 0:20:01.340 --> 0:20:03.419 as many people as possible what the consequences of it is, 0:20:03.740 --> 0:20:06.939 we'll all wake up bitching and moaning. But now is 0:20:06.960 --> 0:20:12.070 the time to actually do something. Yesterday in the parliament, 0:20:12.090 --> 0:20:16.340 they decided to duck shove the discussion about the allied 0:20:16.420 --> 0:20:20.340 health cap. This is the $ 5, 000 arbitrary number that has 0:20:20.359 --> 0:20:23.980 been put on people for essentially non-life-saving treatment who have 0:20:24.020 --> 0:20:27.570 served our country. The pressure from the soldiers produced the 0:20:27.609 --> 0:20:30.390 entire Senate, bar the Labor Party, saying scrap the cap. 0:20:31.630 --> 0:20:33.950 The federal government, rather than just saying, yes, we agree 0:20:33.990 --> 0:20:36.650 with what everyone else in the parliament thinks, have decided, no, 0:20:36.710 --> 0:20:40.680 let's push this off until at least next month. John 0:20:40.740 --> 0:20:42.600 Armfeld is the man we've spoken to many times for 0:20:42.640 --> 0:20:44.240 all of this. He served his country and he is 0:20:44.280 --> 0:20:46.659 well and truly part of this fight. I saw you 0:20:46.700 --> 0:20:48.600 on socials today, John. What do you think of them 0:20:49.180 --> 0:20:51.869 pushing this again as far off as they possibly can? 0:20:51.910 --> 0:20:53.630 They should just kill it and kill it now. But 0:20:53.750 --> 0:20:54.190 what do you think? 0:20:55.350 --> 0:20:58.629 Mate, on with you, Paul. Kill it now. The Labor 0:20:58.670 --> 0:21:02.750 messaging is on point today, but the Labor actions are 0:21:02.790 --> 0:21:06.639 missing in action. Tony Burke stated, for all of us, 0:21:06.820 --> 0:21:10.800 where we work out policy differences, the unity... of this 0:21:10.900 --> 0:21:13.820 place in our commitment and respect for people who've worn 0:21:13.859 --> 0:21:17.240 our uniform should be a unity that we never put 0:21:17.260 --> 0:21:22.130 at risk. They are Minister Burke's words today. And we 0:21:22.170 --> 0:21:28.710 have unity. We have Liberal, Nationals, One Nation, Greens, Independents, Lambie. 0:21:29.530 --> 0:21:33.690 Everyone is united, Minister Burke, except for the Labor government. 0:21:34.740 --> 0:21:37.159 Yeah, I mean, this is what's ludicrous, right? So the 0:21:37.340 --> 0:21:39.119 idea that you were able to get the Greens and 0:21:39.200 --> 0:21:43.220 One Nation in the same damn place, right, speaks to 0:21:44.000 --> 0:21:46.780 how this is outrageous. You've spoken to the Prime Minister. 0:21:46.800 --> 0:21:50.600 You've seen the Minister. You know, after our conversation last 0:21:50.660 --> 0:21:53.440 week and your experiences in Canberra, again, it felt like 0:21:53.460 --> 0:21:55.730 we didn't know which way it was going to go. 0:21:56.090 --> 0:21:58.710 But that hammer blow coming from the Senate, it's got 0:21:58.790 --> 0:22:01.570 to be a big push in the direction of common sense, right? 0:22:03.290 --> 0:22:06.430 Paul, to see the Senate united, to see all the 0:22:06.490 --> 0:22:10.149 parliamentarians and senators that you've discussed come together, that is 0:22:10.210 --> 0:22:13.609 democracy in action. But what we've seen today, Paul, the 0:22:13.670 --> 0:22:16.810 minister is doing everything he can to hide the truth. 0:22:17.450 --> 0:22:22.350 The Senate ordered him to hand over briefs on his 0:22:22.350 --> 0:22:23.730 $ 748 million cut. 0:22:24.050 --> 0:22:24.629