WEBVTT - Anthony Ryan, CEO of Brisbane Economic Development Agency 0:00:05.881 --> 0:00:07.281 Apoche Production. 0:00:10.801 --> 0:00:14.521 Welcome to another episode of Brave Always the CEO Series. 0:00:14.721 --> 0:00:18.521 This series, we launch into the new world of brave leadership. 0:00:18.640 --> 0:00:20.841 Happy people create happy businesses. 0:00:20.640 --> 0:00:24.241 True emotionally intelligent leadership. I've picked up vomit once on 0:00:24.321 --> 0:00:26.721 our about our fourth flight, and everybody thought, well, if 0:00:26.721 --> 0:00:28.200 it's good enough for him, I can do it. 0:00:28.241 --> 0:00:28.441 Now. 0:00:28.521 --> 0:00:31.121 We will be joined by culture and leadership. 0:00:30.721 --> 0:00:35.121 Experts and some superstar CEOs who will courageously tell us 0:00:35.120 --> 0:00:39.081 the truth behind their brave leadership journeys. Today, I'm thrilled 0:00:39.081 --> 0:00:41.481 to be joined in the studio by the very charismatic 0:00:41.480 --> 0:00:44.761 Anthony Ryan. Anthony is currently the CEO of the Brisbane 0:00:44.801 --> 0:00:48.281 Economic Development Agency, responsible for driving the economic growth of 0:00:48.321 --> 0:00:50.801 Brisbane City. Prior to this, Anthony was the CEO of 0:00:50.840 --> 0:00:53.641 Young Care for five years, a national not for profit 0:00:53.721 --> 0:00:57.721 organization revolutionizing the way young people with high kid disabilities live. 0:00:57.881 --> 0:01:00.001 In fact, you will find much of Anthony's resume in 0:01:00.001 --> 0:01:03.041 the space of the nonprofit sector and charities including the 0:01:03.081 --> 0:01:04.961 MEMIKI and Edmund Rice FANDAI. 0:01:05.561 --> 0:01:05.721 Now. 0:01:05.761 --> 0:01:08.281 I was fortunate to meet you at two charity events 0:01:08.281 --> 0:01:11.080 I'm for the Broncos and recently at the CEO sleep 0:01:11.121 --> 0:01:13.560 at for Vinnie h. I got to witness firsthand your 0:01:13.601 --> 0:01:17.200 mastery at getting people to fundraise. Anthony impressively raised over 0:01:17.280 --> 0:01:20.360 twenty thousand by yourself for the event. But Anthony, I 0:01:20.401 --> 0:01:22.641 thoroughly enjoyed doing a little bit of research on you. 0:01:22.761 --> 0:01:23.360 I really did. 0:01:23.640 --> 0:01:26.121 I was like, oh, oh every five seconds, starting with 0:01:26.161 --> 0:01:29.200 the fact that you actually represented Australia at the World 0:01:29.280 --> 0:01:32.920 Junior Athletics Championships and nineteen eighty eight in Canada. 0:01:32.961 --> 0:01:33.560 That's true. 0:01:33.721 --> 0:01:36.720 Well, we so obviously you have a passion for sport. 0:01:37.081 --> 0:01:38.561 Can you tell me a bit about your junior as 0:01:38.601 --> 0:01:39.201 an athlete. 0:01:39.920 --> 0:01:43.241 I was playing rugby at school and the school just 0:01:43.321 --> 0:01:46.081 up the road here at school called Terrace, and I 0:01:46.161 --> 0:01:48.081 wasn't a great rugby player, but I got quite a 0:01:48.121 --> 0:01:51.001 bad injury, and so instead of playing rugby, i'd really 0:01:51.041 --> 0:01:53.881 focus on track and field. I was just going to 0:01:53.921 --> 0:01:56.361 be a hobby. And then I realized I was better 0:01:56.401 --> 0:01:58.441 at it than I thought I would be, and sort 0:01:58.441 --> 0:02:03.081 of quickly started improving. And then came to GPS, and 0:02:03.201 --> 0:02:06.160 I think I surprised myself and won jeeps and then 0:02:06.281 --> 0:02:08.960 went on one States and then went into the Australian 0:02:09.161 --> 0:02:11.921 Australian Championships and then got selected in the Australian junior 0:02:11.921 --> 0:02:14.161 team and sort of out of the blur. Really, my 0:02:14.240 --> 0:02:18.041 coach was always there for rugby, called John Lucas's bloody legend. 0:02:18.161 --> 0:02:20.400 But we surprised ourselves or who went there, and we 0:02:20.881 --> 0:02:23.081 got a silver medal at the World Jeniors. We either 0:02:23.081 --> 0:02:25.561 broke the world junior record in the semis. We had 0:02:25.561 --> 0:02:28.761 an amazing team that all went onto fantastic things except 0:02:28.800 --> 0:02:32.521 for myself in sport. And then in the final we 0:02:32.601 --> 0:02:35.720 ended up getting second to the United States and they 0:02:35.721 --> 0:02:37.801 broke the world junior record and the guy that was 0:02:37.800 --> 0:02:40.361 the runner there in that who ran against me ended 0:02:40.441 --> 0:02:42.401 up going on later on a couple of months later 0:02:42.401 --> 0:02:46.201 to win the Olympics a year old wow forty three eight. 0:02:46.401 --> 0:02:48.041 So I knew I was never going to be that good. 0:02:48.281 --> 0:02:50.761 So I pretty much sort of was always a relay 0:02:50.841 --> 0:02:53.081 runner in some ways, I planted the seeds in what 0:02:53.161 --> 0:02:54.361 I did later on in life. 0:02:55.401 --> 0:02:57.361 I was going to say so, also, I'm a beautiful 0:02:57.361 --> 0:02:59.800 fit now that you're working with Beta and obviously going 0:02:59.841 --> 0:03:01.601 to be part of the Olympics coming to Brisbane. That's 0:03:01.601 --> 0:03:04.081 obviously it feels probably very close and special for you. 0:03:04.161 --> 0:03:08.161 Absolutely well, Bristbane Economic Development Agency where there is a 0:03:08.161 --> 0:03:10.961 support mechanism. Our work isn't really to do with the 0:03:11.001 --> 0:03:14.121 Olympics per se, but we will be supporting Okog and 0:03:14.561 --> 0:03:18.161 anyone that we can, particularly with utilizing Olympics as that 0:03:18.321 --> 0:03:22.601 hook to drive the brand of our city investment and 0:03:22.601 --> 0:03:25.400 to assist with getting those stadiums and things like that 0:03:25.481 --> 0:03:28.361 up and running when someone makes the choice and the 0:03:28.401 --> 0:03:29.321 decision to do something. 0:03:29.401 --> 0:03:31.161 Yeah, right, exciting stuff. Now. 0:03:31.401 --> 0:03:34.000 At the CEO sleepout that we went to a month 0:03:34.121 --> 0:03:36.081 or so ago, I was really moved by a story 0:03:36.081 --> 0:03:38.401 that you shared on stage about your relationship with a 0:03:38.401 --> 0:03:41.081 homeless man in Brisbane. You know, without having done any 0:03:41.121 --> 0:03:44.201 research on you, I just automatically since there's deep passion 0:03:44.201 --> 0:03:47.081 in you around homelessness. And then I read that there's 0:03:47.081 --> 0:03:48.401 a bit of a backstory here. So how did that 0:03:48.441 --> 0:03:49.081 all begin for you? 0:03:49.481 --> 0:03:52.001 I was a teacher many years ago as I was 0:03:52.201 --> 0:03:55.281 teaching economics. It was an inner city school and I 0:03:55.361 --> 0:03:58.161 was totally buying away as we would come to school 0:03:58.241 --> 0:04:00.201 as a wealthy It was terrorist. I went back to 0:04:00.241 --> 0:04:03.441 teacher Terras and I said to the economics class, you 0:04:03.521 --> 0:04:06.001 walk past homelessness every day. Why do you think the 0:04:06.001 --> 0:04:08.801 street people are here? You know, some were sleeping in 0:04:08.841 --> 0:04:11.121 the same street as Terrace and in the parks and 0:04:11.201 --> 0:04:14.081 Victoria Park, et cetera. And there was a young fella 0:04:14.281 --> 0:04:16.401 in grade elevenies and now I've become one of my mates, 0:04:16.401 --> 0:04:19.640 actually because I was a young teacher. And he said, 0:04:20.001 --> 0:04:22.880 because they're lazy, and if they got up off their ass, 0:04:22.961 --> 0:04:25.121 they could get a job, sir. And I was a 0:04:25.161 --> 0:04:27.400 standard by his answer, and so I said, who else, 0:04:28.041 --> 0:04:31.241 who else feels the same way? And every person in 0:04:31.241 --> 0:04:32.801 the class put the hand up and said, you know, 0:04:32.841 --> 0:04:35.520 they're lazy. And so instead of getting angry and or 0:04:35.801 --> 0:04:38.121 saying that they were wrong, I wanted to challenge that 0:04:38.161 --> 0:04:41.001 because that's what teaching is. Teaching isn't about. It's allowing 0:04:41.041 --> 0:04:43.801 people to arrive at an answer themselves, particularly in those 0:04:43.841 --> 0:04:47.321 sort of profound moments of light bulb moments in life. 0:04:47.401 --> 0:04:49.161 And so from that that became a trigger for me, 0:04:49.201 --> 0:04:50.760 and I thought, Okay, well, how do I get these 0:04:50.961 --> 0:04:56.521 kids to actually challenge their stereotypes? And so I started 0:04:56.641 --> 0:04:59.881 this program about two months later called the Street Retreat Program, 0:05:00.001 --> 0:05:02.841 where we would have an overnight experience living on the 0:05:02.880 --> 0:05:05.761 streets of South Pars overnight and instead of of serving 0:05:05.801 --> 0:05:09.001 the homeless, you're actually going to journey for twenty four 0:05:09.001 --> 0:05:13.681 hours with them, and that would challengeh stereotypes. And we 0:05:13.721 --> 0:05:16.441 started this van. On one of the first nights, I 0:05:16.521 --> 0:05:19.440 brought that student out. His name was Gandhi, and we 0:05:19.641 --> 0:05:22.760 took Gandhi out and five of his mates, and Gandhi 0:05:22.880 --> 0:05:26.001 was sitting in the garter talking to this guy and 0:05:26.041 --> 0:05:28.200 it was the first time these terrorist guys had already 0:05:28.281 --> 0:05:31.281 ever seen anyone a homeless or not seen them, but 0:05:31.440 --> 0:05:34.960 confronted them and was conversive with them. And the guy 0:05:35.440 --> 0:05:37.440 shared with him that he used to go to a 0:05:37.440 --> 0:05:39.561 school up the road, and Gandy was going, Oh, what 0:05:39.601 --> 0:05:41.601 do you mean what we're talking about? He goes, oh, 0:05:41.601 --> 0:05:43.440 you might not know it. It's a school called Terrace. 0:05:44.121 --> 0:05:48.200 And Gandhi at that stage when wow, are you serious? 0:05:48.241 --> 0:05:52.201 And what had happened for a series of things that 0:05:52.201 --> 0:05:55.041 had happened in this guy's life, addiction took over ended 0:05:55.121 --> 0:05:58.320 up being a semi permanent resident down in potanical gardens. 0:05:58.521 --> 0:06:01.761 And that was the moment where I started realizing the 0:06:01.801 --> 0:06:04.961 power of education. So Gandhi went from that night and 0:06:05.121 --> 0:06:07.001 we'd always finish at the end and night just sitting 0:06:07.041 --> 0:06:09.241 around and just chatting. What do you learn, what you see, 0:06:09.401 --> 0:06:12.041 what made you feel uncomfortable, et cetera. And he shared 0:06:12.081 --> 0:06:15.801 his story and the next day at that school, we 0:06:15.921 --> 0:06:18.880 had a lineup of around about no exact eruation, about 0:06:18.880 --> 0:06:21.921 one hundred kids outside my door asking whether they could 0:06:21.921 --> 0:06:24.280 be involved in the program. And that started. It changed 0:06:24.320 --> 0:06:26.561 the culture of a school. And then and it was 0:06:26.641 --> 0:06:28.201 during that time I met a guy called Terry. 0:06:28.401 --> 0:06:30.841 Met Terry, Yeah, wow, I love that. 0:06:30.961 --> 0:06:31.241 Wow. 0:06:31.481 --> 0:06:33.081 I mean, you don't seem to have any of the 0:06:33.401 --> 0:06:36.721 judgment or avoidance that people usually have when it comes 0:06:36.721 --> 0:06:38.721 to homelessness. I mean, I think at the core of it, 0:06:38.721 --> 0:06:41.441 there's something about homelessess that makes people feel afraid. 0:06:41.481 --> 0:06:43.081 Or not want to think about it. Why is it 0:06:43.121 --> 0:06:43.681 different for you? 0:06:43.761 --> 0:06:45.521 I mean you've said that education is a part of it, 0:06:45.561 --> 0:06:46.561 but is this anthing more? 0:06:46.841 --> 0:06:49.960 Yeah? For sure. When I started working the homeless, like anyone, 0:06:50.001 --> 0:06:52.281 you feel nervous, You're not sure what to say. Are 0:06:52.281 --> 0:06:55.521 you going to offend? Are you thinking that they're going 0:06:55.601 --> 0:06:59.001 to judge you? Why are you here with me? Used 0:06:59.281 --> 0:07:01.681 ticking a box make yourself feel better? But the more 0:07:01.721 --> 0:07:04.881 I got to know people, particularly those who were doing 0:07:04.921 --> 0:07:07.041 it tough. And later on, when I started working in 0:07:07.081 --> 0:07:10.561 Africa and the slums over there, I also realized that 0:07:10.641 --> 0:07:13.841 these guys, and this sounds like a religious thing, but 0:07:13.881 --> 0:07:16.641 it's not. Mother Teresa used to say that the worst 0:07:16.641 --> 0:07:19.441 form of poverty was loneliness. And when I started talking 0:07:19.521 --> 0:07:21.521 to these people, first of all, i'd look at you 0:07:21.561 --> 0:07:23.641 a little bit intrigued that you were talking to them 0:07:23.801 --> 0:07:26.201 rather than serving them a soup or serving them coffee. 0:07:26.281 --> 0:07:28.721 What we wanted to do was break that stereotype as 0:07:28.721 --> 0:07:31.561 well of service and say, no one's really serving here. 0:07:31.641 --> 0:07:33.321 We sit down and we chat, and this is going 0:07:33.361 --> 0:07:35.681 to be a place of being present to each other 0:07:35.721 --> 0:07:38.601 own conversation. And you would see that they would relax, 0:07:38.641 --> 0:07:41.641 their shoulders would relax, that'd feel more comfortable. They'd give 0:07:41.641 --> 0:07:43.721 you eye contact. Normally they wouldn't be able to if 0:07:43.761 --> 0:07:46.401 they felt it was the dynamic, The paradigm had shifted. 0:07:46.601 --> 0:07:50.201 When they felt that, you started getting incredible stories. I 0:07:50.281 --> 0:07:53.161 used to get really angry because I knew I had 0:07:53.161 --> 0:07:55.841 that experience, and I thought, you've got to understand people's context. 0:07:55.841 --> 0:07:58.281 But I started noticing more and more when i'd sit 0:07:58.361 --> 0:08:00.201 down with people on the streets and talk to them. 0:08:00.321 --> 0:08:03.001 How people would rush past them as quickly as they could. 0:08:03.201 --> 0:08:05.401 You'd have people walking on the other side of the 0:08:05.401 --> 0:08:08.281 street to avoid them. Now, I'm not saying every homeless 0:08:08.281 --> 0:08:11.281 person or a street person is a saint. They certainly not. 0:08:11.441 --> 0:08:14.001 But they've all got varying reasons why they're there, and 0:08:14.041 --> 0:08:16.281 the majority of them have just fallen on tough times. 0:08:17.001 --> 0:08:19.601 And it's really going to be presents and love that 0:08:19.681 --> 0:08:23.201 will be able to interrupt what they are currently going 0:08:23.241 --> 0:08:25.081 through to move them onto something else. 0:08:25.281 --> 0:08:27.241 I remember you telling the story about Terry. I remember 0:08:27.241 --> 0:08:29.161 that you said that you know he was quite defensive. 0:08:29.561 --> 0:08:32.401 How do you work around that to see the person 0:08:32.441 --> 0:08:35.521 inside when you get that wall up from people persistence? 0:08:36.041 --> 0:08:39.401 Gay? Terry when I first met him, had a really 0:08:39.441 --> 0:08:42.361 bad starter. He was aggressive towards everybody. He didn't want 0:08:42.361 --> 0:08:45.241 anyone to be around him. And the day that I 0:08:45.321 --> 0:08:48.441 first met him, he hadn't had a shower, reportedly for years, 0:08:49.161 --> 0:08:51.921 even had a safety pin to hold the backside of 0:08:51.921 --> 0:08:54.241 his pants. He never took his pants off, didn't take 0:08:54.241 --> 0:08:56.641 his clothes off for the years, and he used to 0:08:56.841 --> 0:08:58.801 go to the tour through the same take the safety 0:08:58.841 --> 0:09:01.281 pin off and so that added to his aroma. And 0:09:01.321 --> 0:09:04.881 it wasn't until I got to meet Terry and persistently 0:09:05.721 --> 0:09:09.161 talked to him about just life, and he would always 0:09:09.161 --> 0:09:11.641 tell me the f off, And over a couple of weeks, 0:09:11.721 --> 0:09:13.881 I just decided to sit down and talk to him. 0:09:13.961 --> 0:09:16.361 When I started talking to Terry, this was a broken, 0:09:16.801 --> 0:09:19.921 broken human being. You could just tell even when you 0:09:19.921 --> 0:09:23.681 were talking to him. His body language was defeated and 0:09:23.721 --> 0:09:27.361 he was, you know, his smell was really overpowering. But 0:09:27.441 --> 0:09:31.361 I thought that what a phony I was. That I 0:09:31.401 --> 0:09:34.081 was present to everybody else, but the most difficult person 0:09:34.561 --> 0:09:36.801 that I'd met on the streets, I wanted to push 0:09:36.801 --> 0:09:38.481 off to the side. So that was sort of a 0:09:38.521 --> 0:09:41.041 little challenge to myself. And then that first night that 0:09:41.121 --> 0:09:43.801 I met him, I'll never forget this night. I really 0:09:43.841 --> 0:09:46.281 sat down and said, how are you going to Terry? Time? 0:09:46.321 --> 0:09:48.601 And f off again? And I got myself a coffee 0:09:48.601 --> 0:09:50.961 and said, I'm just sitting here. And for about the 0:09:51.001 --> 0:09:53.441 first fifteen minutes, he just sat in silence with me, 0:09:53.841 --> 0:09:56.721 and I was uncomfortable. I think he probably wasn't uncomfortable, 0:09:56.681 --> 0:09:58.401 he was probably angry that I was there. And then 0:09:58.441 --> 0:10:00.841 he just started talking and for the next hour and 0:10:00.881 --> 0:10:03.361 a half. I think I got in less than twenty words, 0:10:03.521 --> 0:10:06.921 and he just talked, talked and talked, and I realized 0:10:06.921 --> 0:10:09.561 he was incredibly intelligent. He was manic in the way 0:10:09.561 --> 0:10:13.081 he was talking. He had this incredible memory for cars 0:10:13.241 --> 0:10:16.321 and car registrations, et cetera. The car went past and 0:10:16.321 --> 0:10:19.121 he said, he used to talk whether that car that 0:10:19.961 --> 0:10:23.601 XGA two five seven it went past here three nights ago. Wow, 0:10:23.681 --> 0:10:26.681 this guy's got a photographic memory. Hey, I cut along 0:10:26.721 --> 0:10:29.921 story short. What I want your listeners to understand is 0:10:30.281 --> 0:10:34.161 as we built that relationship up, he finally trusted me 0:10:34.201 --> 0:10:38.401 to tell his story. And his image of his clothes 0:10:38.401 --> 0:10:41.281 it hadn't been washed. His smell was a defense mechanism. 0:10:41.361 --> 0:10:44.161 He was punishing himself for life. And he told me 0:10:44.241 --> 0:10:47.441 the story that in Melbourne he was driving a car. 0:10:47.681 --> 0:10:50.161 And I've told this many times before. I was shocked 0:10:50.161 --> 0:10:51.681 when he said he had a car, because I had 0:10:51.761 --> 0:10:55.561 always seen him as Terry the bum Terry, the homeless 0:10:55.561 --> 0:10:58.441 guy that was telling everyone to get lost. He had 0:10:58.441 --> 0:11:01.761 a car. And then he started talking about that he 0:11:01.841 --> 0:11:05.521 was driving on an off ramp in Melbourne and realized 0:11:05.561 --> 0:11:08.041 the last minute that he was in the wrong lane 0:11:08.081 --> 0:11:10.481 and a car came into him at full force, steering 0:11:10.481 --> 0:11:13.841 whell jack knives into his body. And as he just 0:11:13.841 --> 0:11:17.401 started describing it, Terry was back in that moment. He 0:11:17.481 --> 0:11:19.321 was no longer talking to me as someone that was 0:11:19.401 --> 0:11:21.241 with him on the streets. He was back in that 0:11:21.321 --> 0:11:24.281 car and he was having a psychotic episode, and I 0:11:24.401 --> 0:11:27.321 was just a bystander in his memory. And he started 0:11:27.321 --> 0:11:30.121 screaming in pain. We were in kid George Square once again. 0:11:30.161 --> 0:11:32.641 People walking past us seeing this must have been a 0:11:32.641 --> 0:11:37.201 bizarre scene. And he started talking about how his both 0:11:37.321 --> 0:11:40.081 arms were completely broken, and he was staring at his 0:11:40.161 --> 0:11:43.121 hands that was sticking down and his bones were sticking 0:11:43.121 --> 0:11:44.961 out in front of it at right angles, and he 0:11:45.001 --> 0:11:47.601 was going to pain, and he was explaining the pain 0:11:47.841 --> 0:11:51.241 in his own way. And then what he did for 0:11:51.441 --> 0:11:54.521 me next, and he goes my son, my son, And 0:11:54.561 --> 0:11:57.841 I said what he mean, Terry. He said that he 0:11:57.921 --> 0:12:00.561 had his daughter in the car, and he realized the 0:12:00.641 --> 0:12:04.641 daughter was already passed away, and so he could see 0:12:04.681 --> 0:12:08.561 her as he looked off to the side, and then 0:12:08.601 --> 0:12:11.041 he realized his son was still alive, and he went 0:12:11.081 --> 0:12:12.641 to go reach to his son and realized he was 0:12:12.681 --> 0:12:15.601 pinned by the steering wheel. So as he was explaining 0:12:15.921 --> 0:12:18.361 in his memory he was trying to rip his arms off, 0:12:18.561 --> 0:12:21.881 he was stuck, and he was talking about the pain 0:12:21.961 --> 0:12:24.161 that he couldn't face the pain. So then he had 0:12:24.161 --> 0:12:26.681 to look back up into the real vision mirror with 0:12:26.721 --> 0:12:30.041 the realization that his son was bleeding out. He had 0:12:30.081 --> 0:12:32.681 to talk to his son before his son passed away. 0:12:33.201 --> 0:12:37.321 For me, that explained his pain, and as we got 0:12:37.321 --> 0:12:39.481 to know him a little bit more, he just turned 0:12:39.481 --> 0:12:41.401 to me at that stage, got out of his memory 0:12:41.521 --> 0:12:44.881 and basically said, I couldn't handle the pain I founded 0:12:44.881 --> 0:12:48.281 my son, and so Terry was going to be after 0:12:48.281 --> 0:12:50.321 the funeral, he was going to take his life. And 0:12:50.361 --> 0:12:56.441 then he realized, you miserable failure of life. That's too easy. 0:12:56.841 --> 0:12:59.241 You're going to do whatever you can to be hated. 0:12:59.721 --> 0:13:02.681 And that made so he used to wear plastic bags 0:13:02.721 --> 0:13:04.681 all up and down his arm that was filled with rubbish. 0:13:05.081 --> 0:13:07.721 Stage it just made sense. I realized that the plastic 0:13:07.721 --> 0:13:09.761 bags were there to hide his scars, and like his 0:13:09.881 --> 0:13:13.681 physical scars, and that he just didn't want to look 0:13:13.681 --> 0:13:16.921 down every morning as he woke up and said, you 0:13:17.001 --> 0:13:20.281 know that's right, I killed my kids accidentally, So that 0:13:20.521 --> 0:13:22.681 blew me away, right, that just blew me away, And 0:13:22.721 --> 0:13:25.801 I thought, how many of those people, not just homeless, 0:13:25.801 --> 0:13:28.601 any take your blinkers off? In life, you never really 0:13:28.681 --> 0:13:32.721 understand what journey anyone's been through, and so I always 0:13:33.041 --> 0:13:35.401 think about that in any engagement that I do. 0:13:35.761 --> 0:13:37.841 I mean, that's the second time I heard that story, 0:13:37.881 --> 0:13:40.241 and it's I can imagine how life changing that was 0:13:40.241 --> 0:13:42.041 for you. You could never look at things the same way. 0:13:42.641 --> 0:13:44.361 I remember feeling like a bit of shame when you 0:13:44.401 --> 0:13:47.801 were telling that story. That absolutely I probably walked past 0:13:47.841 --> 0:13:51.121 someone like Terry before and never considered and why do 0:13:51.201 --> 0:13:53.041 we do that like we are? I think for a 0:13:53.041 --> 0:13:56.521 lot of people, we're actually just avoiding the uncomfortableness for ourselves. 0:13:56.881 --> 0:14:00.201 So I think this is obviously a very extreme story 0:14:00.321 --> 0:14:02.401 versus I guess some people's day to day issues. But 0:14:02.521 --> 0:14:04.761 I think what I'm hearing from you is having that 0:14:04.801 --> 0:14:06.961 cure curiosity. That's a big part of it, right. 0:14:07.121 --> 0:14:09.121 I think one of the things that if I would 0:14:09.121 --> 0:14:12.921 ever be giving anyone a lesson in life or trying 0:14:12.961 --> 0:14:18.201 to impart some sort of advice, is that the greatest 0:14:18.201 --> 0:14:20.441 moments of my life have always taken place when I've 0:14:20.481 --> 0:14:24.801 been present to somebody else where you actually genuinely listen 0:14:25.201 --> 0:14:27.921 and take the time. There the moments of education, there 0:14:27.921 --> 0:14:30.881 are moments of wisdom, light bulb moments, moments of fun, 0:14:31.001 --> 0:14:33.321 went out on the drink. But you present to people 0:14:33.401 --> 0:14:35.081 and it's the same with the ones that you think 0:14:35.481 --> 0:14:38.961 potentially dangerous or potentially different to us. And that's happened 0:14:38.961 --> 0:14:39.641 all over the world. 0:14:39.641 --> 0:14:42.041 For me, amazing. 0:14:42.441 --> 0:14:45.561 How has that part of your life is connection to 0:14:45.641 --> 0:14:48.081 people at homeless people. How's it shaped the way you 0:14:48.161 --> 0:14:50.681 do business? Because now you're in business, right, so it's 0:14:50.721 --> 0:14:52.321 quite different from being in school, and we'll go back 0:14:52.361 --> 0:14:54.161 to that, But how has that shaped things for you? 0:14:54.441 --> 0:14:57.881 Well? I think the days of transactional sort of leadership 0:14:57.921 --> 0:15:02.161 is over. I did a leadership course a while back 0:15:02.441 --> 0:15:06.641 at Oxford. Was it online? Was I at the university physically, 0:15:06.681 --> 0:15:08.801 but it was a great course. Did it over a 0:15:08.881 --> 0:15:12.401 long period of time, and I really started getting interested 0:15:12.441 --> 0:15:15.161 in organic leadership and the type of leader that I 0:15:15.201 --> 0:15:18.801 always wanted to be with, someone that reversed the pyramid, 0:15:19.521 --> 0:15:23.321 that traditional leadership model of the triangle and reversing that 0:15:23.441 --> 0:15:25.721 triangle and saying, if you're a good leader, really you 0:15:25.761 --> 0:15:29.361 should be looking up rather than looking down and understanding 0:15:29.481 --> 0:15:33.641 the best way of leadership is actually through relationships and presence, 0:15:34.081 --> 0:15:36.521 surrounding yourselves by people that are better than you, smarter 0:15:36.601 --> 0:15:40.961 than you. That whole humility is important, that sense of 0:15:41.001 --> 0:15:46.121 authentic leadership. So those moments were Terry and others, or 0:15:46.161 --> 0:15:49.841 being with young mums living in horrendous property in the 0:15:49.881 --> 0:15:54.241 slums of Africa and knowing that when you're with those people, 0:15:54.281 --> 0:15:57.441 you feel that they are better people than you. That 0:15:58.041 --> 0:16:01.081 a title is nothing really. As the CEO of any 0:16:01.161 --> 0:16:04.321 organization that I've been in, I've always knew that the 0:16:04.361 --> 0:16:06.721 moments of God and my business were always going to 0:16:06.721 --> 0:16:09.961 be when I was down at the baseline, sharing information 0:16:10.401 --> 0:16:13.161 and being with the stuff. And it makes it so 0:16:13.241 --> 0:16:14.721 much more enjoyable to work that way. 0:16:14.801 --> 0:16:17.601 Yeah, see, to me, to do that takes a huge 0:16:17.601 --> 0:16:20.401 amount of self belief and self worth. Right, You're not 0:16:20.441 --> 0:16:22.721 trying to prove anything to anybody that I'm this big 0:16:22.761 --> 0:16:24.001 guy and I'm in charge. 0:16:24.321 --> 0:16:26.481 Where did that start from? You born like that? Someone 0:16:26.521 --> 0:16:27.241 teach you that my. 0:16:27.241 --> 0:16:29.561 Mom and dad were pretty amazing. My mom I was 0:16:29.601 --> 0:16:32.961 an asthmatic, really bad asthmatic, often in hospitals when I 0:16:32.961 --> 0:16:35.921 was younger, right, and my mom started up this thing 0:16:36.441 --> 0:16:40.241 called the Samaritan Committee. And I haven't talked about this ever, 0:16:40.361 --> 0:16:43.161 I don't think when I look back, it was quite extraordinary. 0:16:43.201 --> 0:16:45.681 It was something that she just did around kidren asp 0:16:45.801 --> 0:16:48.681 Lee Wave all those areas, and it was a Tuesday 0:16:48.721 --> 0:16:51.041 on a Thursday afternoon where all of the people in 0:16:51.081 --> 0:16:54.121 those subjays were lonely would come into this one space 0:16:54.241 --> 0:16:56.881 and they'd be taught my crime, or they play bingo, 0:16:57.401 --> 0:17:01.041 or they do art, et cetera. And I used to 0:17:01.121 --> 0:17:03.041 be as an asthmatic. She'd have to take me there 0:17:03.081 --> 0:17:04.521 and there was a little trundle bit that she put 0:17:04.521 --> 0:17:06.281 me in. I can always remember looking out to seem 0:17:06.840 --> 0:17:09.281 surrounded by these people and I'm thinking, what's she doing? 0:17:09.880 --> 0:17:12.720 But that role modeling, I think, for me, really taught 0:17:12.840 --> 0:17:18.921 me the importance of giving back and community and sharing 0:17:19.360 --> 0:17:20.321 experiences together. 0:17:20.400 --> 0:17:22.201 I loved it, no doubt, that's. 0:17:22.041 --> 0:17:25.801 Right, without a doubt that it came from my mum 0:17:25.840 --> 0:17:26.161 and dad. 0:17:26.281 --> 0:17:28.440 Is it particular things that you do, Like if we 0:17:28.481 --> 0:17:30.680 talked about what your leadership style is like, is there 0:17:30.681 --> 0:17:33.080 things that you actively do to create the kind of 0:17:33.080 --> 0:17:34.120 culture that you're after. 0:17:34.080 --> 0:17:36.080 We're doing it right now. So I'm going back into 0:17:36.080 --> 0:17:39.400 my third year, my next three year strategic plan and 0:17:39.600 --> 0:17:42.880 strategy and a page we call it. So all through it, 0:17:43.080 --> 0:17:46.761 through that, who am I to know? Really? The business 0:17:47.080 --> 0:17:50.041 on my figurehead up the top, you know, sort of 0:17:50.681 --> 0:17:53.160 sprouting out the hard work that my team is doing. 0:17:53.840 --> 0:17:57.801 So we're reversing it once again, and I'm saying to them, okay, 0:17:58.521 --> 0:18:00.801 it's the old teacher me. I want you to tell 0:18:00.801 --> 0:18:03.440 me what we should be and I'll synthesize it and 0:18:03.481 --> 0:18:06.281 with my leadership team, so it'll be what are the 0:18:06.321 --> 0:18:08.921 five characteristics that we want to be known as a business. 0:18:09.281 --> 0:18:11.640 You go out and tell us, let's look at our 0:18:11.640 --> 0:18:14.001 elevator pitch. You tell us what our elevator pitch is, 0:18:14.041 --> 0:18:17.120 and then every department will then come in and will 0:18:17.160 --> 0:18:20.681 synthesize all that. Because no matter what happens in leadership, 0:18:20.721 --> 0:18:23.801 if it's coming from you, they won't own it, or 0:18:23.801 --> 0:18:26.880 would they own it. But if it's coming from them 0:18:27.441 --> 0:18:30.881 from the belly, and they can see their words, their thoughts, 0:18:31.321 --> 0:18:35.480 their wisdom that's been placed into an overarching definition of 0:18:35.481 --> 0:18:38.721 what our business should be, they feel so much more proud. 0:18:39.080 --> 0:18:42.041 They feel that is a true representation of the work 0:18:42.041 --> 0:18:45.521 that they're doing, and that they feel strongly aligned to 0:18:45.600 --> 0:18:49.200 the vision, the purpose and that elevator pitch and our 0:18:49.241 --> 0:18:53.961 focus areas. Everything I do is always around that process. Now, 0:18:54.001 --> 0:18:56.640 some people say that's weak leadership. Now, I'm not saying 0:18:56.681 --> 0:19:00.920 there's no time when that bureaucratic or that triangle leadership 0:19:01.120 --> 0:19:05.201 isn't required. If there's a fire in our building, I'm 0:19:05.201 --> 0:19:07.400 going to say them, yes, I'm not going to sit 0:19:07.441 --> 0:19:14.041 back and how do we all hopefully not smoketely that 0:19:14.041 --> 0:19:16.240