WEBVTT - Nathan Burke: Cotch's saviour 0:00:07.440 --> 0:00:09.800 It wasn't against the rules to do that particular action, 0:00:10.400 --> 0:00:12.360 and so I thought long and hard for him to 0:00:12.640 --> 0:00:15.440 be able to play in the Grand Final, and that 0:00:15.520 --> 0:00:18.439 was probably my demise was a tribute Barrel member as well. 0:00:18.440 --> 0:00:20.320 I'm John Ralph and I'm Glenn McFarlane. 0:00:20.400 --> 0:00:23.600 Welcome to Sacked, a podcast that explores what really happens 0:00:23.640 --> 0:00:26.160 when the ax falls in the AFL world. Will take 0:00:26.200 --> 0:00:27.920 you behind the scenes with some of the biggest names 0:00:27.920 --> 0:00:30.320 in football and find out how they found out their 0:00:30.360 --> 0:00:32.080 time was up and who pulled the trigger. 0:00:32.440 --> 0:00:33.400 Sacked AFL is. 0:00:33.320 --> 0:00:36.160 Made possible with the support of subscribers to The Herald Sun. 0:00:36.520 --> 0:00:38.479 To find out more, go to Heraldsun dot com, do 0:00:38.560 --> 0:00:41.920 au or download the Herald Sun app at your app store. 0:00:43.200 --> 0:00:43.560 Today. 0:00:43.960 --> 0:00:47.120 Cotcher's Savior Part two of our chat with Nathan Burke. 0:00:47.640 --> 0:00:50.640 Nathan Burke's post playing career has been spent at the 0:00:50.680 --> 0:00:53.319 pointy end of some of the biggest news stories our 0:00:53.360 --> 0:00:56.760 game has produced over the past two decades. From his 0:00:56.840 --> 0:00:59.200 time on the Saints board to a run as the 0:00:59.240 --> 0:01:03.680 outspoken to the Western Bulldogs AFL W team, Burke has 0:01:03.760 --> 0:01:06.640 never found himself far from the action. It was a 0:01:06.680 --> 0:01:09.399 stint on the match Review Panel and his role in 0:01:09.440 --> 0:01:12.600 the grading of Trent Kotchin's bump on Dylan Shield in 0:01:12.640 --> 0:01:16.039 the twenty seventeen prelim that could go down as his 0:01:16.160 --> 0:01:20.520 most consequential hand in footy history for Tiger fans at least. 0:01:22.120 --> 0:01:24.000 So, how did you find yourself at a Chinese restaurant 0:01:24.240 --> 0:01:27.080 in the Gold Coast, China? Appeal to the great Malcolm 0:01:27.080 --> 0:01:32.440 Blyte densely sign a servier, Yes. 0:01:34.560 --> 0:01:37.200 The Great Malcolm Bite. I think there was might have 0:01:37.200 --> 0:01:41.319 been four or five is Pete Everett, Robert Harvey, Max 0:01:41.400 --> 0:01:45.320 Hodgton and myself flew out there in a room not 0:01:45.400 --> 0:01:48.280 much bigger than this little box we're in right here. 0:01:48.400 --> 0:01:53.600 A pacib podcast ye our ties on and it walks 0:01:53.600 --> 0:01:57.160 Malcolm and his manager and we have to stand up 0:01:57.200 --> 0:01:59.840 and give him an appause on the way because Malcolm, 0:01:59.880 --> 0:02:05.840 like the Kings, Malcolm and ego there rather both large, 0:02:06.200 --> 0:02:10.200 and we need to appeal to this guy's with every 0:02:10.200 --> 0:02:13.680 coach that I had in my career was the first 0:02:13.680 --> 0:02:17.280 time coach, and so we thought, hey, let's get someone 0:02:17.280 --> 0:02:19.960 who's done it before, been they'd done that, gone on 0:02:20.000 --> 0:02:22.040 the top of the mountain, come in and just really 0:02:22.240 --> 0:02:25.519 get us where we need to really really quickly, and 0:02:25.600 --> 0:02:27.200 we all had to go on the table and say 0:02:27.200 --> 0:02:29.560 why we wanted Malcolm the coach and what he was 0:02:29.560 --> 0:02:32.280 going to bring to the team. And Malcolm was pretty 0:02:32.280 --> 0:02:35.760 happy with that, and the red wines flowing, and it 0:02:35.800 --> 0:02:40.959 got to the point where Rod Butters was writing numbers 0:02:40.960 --> 0:02:44.240 on a napkin, sliding them across to Malcolm Light who 0:02:44.320 --> 0:02:47.639 sort of look at it, slide across to his manager, 0:02:48.800 --> 0:02:53.200 Ron Joseph Ron was there, Yeah, was his manager right, 0:02:53.240 --> 0:02:55.799 and look at it and sort of frown and slide 0:02:55.800 --> 0:02:58.560 it back to and the players are sitting at the 0:02:58.600 --> 0:03:00.519 other end of the table sort of watching this happened. 0:03:00.520 --> 0:03:02.720 I thought, I think this is time for us to leave. 0:03:03.080 --> 0:03:04.799 We need to get out of here. Anyway, it was 0:03:04.880 --> 0:03:06.720 good timing because Peter Everett had just gone to the 0:03:06.760 --> 0:03:09.880 toilet and it was a Chinese restaurant and he had 0:03:11.160 --> 0:03:13.960 sort of emancipated, I don't know what the word is, 0:03:14.000 --> 0:03:18.800 a lobster from the fish tank, and that was currently 0:03:18.919 --> 0:03:22.720 running around the all the Chinese was smuggling around, scuttling 0:03:22.760 --> 0:03:27.239 around the Chinese restaurant and to win to get across 0:03:27.240 --> 0:03:29.240 the side of the foreback. So that was a good 0:03:29.240 --> 0:03:31.079 time for us to get out of there and let 0:03:31.080 --> 0:03:34.280 them do their deal. And yeah, as it turned out 0:03:34.280 --> 0:03:37.520 that they eventually said led on a rather through seven 0:03:37.560 --> 0:03:41.280 figure some that got the great man down of the 0:03:41.320 --> 0:03:44.680 club with first million dollar coach. Yeah, lasted what fifteen rounds? 0:03:44.800 --> 0:03:46.600 So this starts you're thinking, this is the dawn of 0:03:46.600 --> 0:03:49.080 a new year or this is a complete clusterfuck. 0:03:49.600 --> 0:03:52.240 A bit of both. I was hoping for the former 0:03:52.480 --> 0:03:54.480 and turned out to be the ladder. It was a 0:03:54.480 --> 0:03:58.600 little bit concerned because when he'd gone to Adelaide, originally 0:03:59.000 --> 0:04:00.400 one of the first things he did was he got 0:04:00.440 --> 0:04:01.400 rid of a lot of senior play. 0:04:01.720 --> 0:04:01.880 Yeah. 0:04:02.360 --> 0:04:05.600 Successfully, Yeah, I worked out for him. So I sort 0:04:05.600 --> 0:04:07.720 of sat down with Malcolm and said, Melbourn, what's your 0:04:08.360 --> 0:04:11.360 I'm sort of hitting thirty, what's your what's your plan 0:04:11.640 --> 0:04:14.600 for us guys? And now he said, no, no, I 0:04:14.680 --> 0:04:17.080 need you for a couple of years. So was that 0:04:17.200 --> 0:04:22.240 was good? But yeah, it just for whatever reason, it 0:04:22.480 --> 0:04:25.320 just didn't work. And you know, I know Malcolm really 0:04:25.839 --> 0:04:29.680 rails at anyone who says he wasn't fully committed. But 0:04:29.920 --> 0:04:32.960 our pre season we didn't touch a ball from start 0:04:33.000 --> 0:04:36.040 a pre season to Christmas. We just ran ran and ran, 0:04:36.560 --> 0:04:39.800 and he was living in living in Queensland on the 0:04:39.800 --> 0:04:42.320 Gold Coast. He'd come down one or two nights a 0:04:42.360 --> 0:04:46.440 week at the most. And then after Christmas, if you 0:04:46.560 --> 0:04:49.120 got your time trial of time, you were allowed to 0:04:49.120 --> 0:04:53.320 touch football. And so we were extremely fit. And so 0:04:53.680 --> 0:04:56.000 when you check a whole bunch of senior fit players 0:04:56.279 --> 0:05:00.440 football and say don't go fast, though, go slow because 0:05:00.440 --> 0:05:03.159 your legs aren't used to it, it was almost like 0:05:03.200 --> 0:05:05.560 you could hear the ping ping ping really started to 0:05:05.720 --> 0:05:08.080 And then we started the year with a horrific run 0:05:08.120 --> 0:05:11.480 of injuries because everyone had Hamilton quiet and things like that, 0:05:11.640 --> 0:05:14.280 and it just sort of went from bad to worst 0:05:14.279 --> 0:05:15.760 from there. How did you lost the captaincy? 0:05:15.880 --> 0:05:16.000 Then? 0:05:16.200 --> 0:05:18.080 What happened there? What was the situation? And it wasn't 0:05:18.120 --> 0:05:21.280 Malcolm that told you was It was someone else. So 0:05:21.400 --> 0:05:27.200 Grant Thomas was a football manager, and so I met 0:05:27.400 --> 0:05:31.320 Grant at the Dandy Deli in Brighton. Yeah, and he 0:05:31.520 --> 0:05:36.720 just said that I think new coach, new change, we 0:05:36.839 --> 0:05:39.960 need a new captain. And I was fine with it, 0:05:41.240 --> 0:05:48.960 except Graham wanted to bring in his theory of rotating captains, 0:05:49.480 --> 0:05:52.640 bringing someone who's not quite ready to be captain with 0:05:52.760 --> 0:05:55.680 dreadlocks or formerly. I said, I'm going to make Pete 0:05:55.680 --> 0:05:58.680 EVERYTT captain and I said no, I said, I don't 0:05:58.680 --> 0:06:01.160 think that's the right thing to do, because that would 0:06:01.200 --> 0:06:03.440 be giving some look. And Peter was one of those 0:06:03.480 --> 0:06:06.800 guys who was He had natural leadership abilities in that 0:06:08.400 --> 0:06:12.160 if if everyone was a part of me standing outside 0:06:12.200 --> 0:06:14.120 a room saying should we go in the room, he's 0:06:14.160 --> 0:06:16.840 a coach ready for us. Peter's the guy who go, oh, 0:06:16.880 --> 0:06:19.440 go check, Yeah, he's ready to come on, let's in, 0:06:19.560 --> 0:06:26.800 We'll go. He had that sort of leadership abilities. He 0:06:27.040 --> 0:06:29.440 also led a lot of players in the wrong direction. 0:06:30.640 --> 0:06:32.440 And so we had a guy like Robert Harvey who 0:06:32.640 --> 0:06:37.280 did everything absolutely right. And so I remember sitting there 0:06:37.720 --> 0:06:41.159 with Brian Waldron and Grant Thomas and having the conversation 0:06:41.320 --> 0:06:42.960 for a good forty five minutes that if I'm going 0:06:43.000 --> 0:06:44.960 to step down, Halves has to be the one to 0:06:45.040 --> 0:06:47.960 take over. And luckily they did that because the guy 0:06:48.040 --> 0:06:50.800 deserved it. The guy deserved to be captain. And so yeah, 0:06:50.880 --> 0:06:52.200 that was the way it turned out. 0:06:52.680 --> 0:06:54.640 We've had both Spider and we've had Granted in here 0:06:54.640 --> 0:06:57.360 as well, but it was never going to happen. So 0:06:58.279 --> 0:07:00.200 what was the good of Blightie. You know, were the 0:07:00.240 --> 0:07:02.400 things that are extraordinary or do you just know early 0:07:02.480 --> 0:07:03.760 on that this is just not going to work. 0:07:07.520 --> 0:07:12.720 Look, I did learn from blinding. He's very good at 0:07:12.840 --> 0:07:16.400 just dropping nuggets. Even and again he dropped nuggets. A 0:07:16.440 --> 0:07:19.800 lot of them were about himself. That's the aura of 0:07:21.360 --> 0:07:24.520 say things like, you know, when you're sixty meters out 0:07:24.520 --> 0:07:25.960 from goal, I want you to kick to this spot 0:07:26.000 --> 0:07:28.800 on the ground because no one can kick the ball 0:07:28.800 --> 0:07:31.520 from sixty meters out through the goals. Well, some can. 0:07:32.520 --> 0:07:36.080 I used to. And you tell a story about a 0:07:36.440 --> 0:07:38.640 guy who's playing cent half back and he used to 0:07:38.680 --> 0:07:41.520 get twenty five thirty touches a game playing cent half back, 0:07:41.600 --> 0:07:43.760 and was mainly because I wanted the ball. I mean, 0:07:43.880 --> 0:07:47.200 he wanted the ball. He dropped and they was sort 0:07:47.240 --> 0:07:49.320 of endearing to start with, and I was like, we're 0:07:49.320 --> 0:07:54.120 still doing it. But yeah, he dropped nuggets every now 0:07:54.120 --> 0:07:56.800 and again that you know that you'd pick up on. 0:07:56.920 --> 0:07:58.720 And you couldn't help being around a guy like that 0:07:58.840 --> 0:08:00.960 with his experience and knowledge without sort of picking up 0:08:00.960 --> 0:08:03.880 those sort of nuggets. But it was just the just 0:08:03.960 --> 0:08:08.200 the the bringing the group together. He probably thought, well, 0:08:08.240 --> 0:08:10.200 I'm here, it's just going to happen. You're all going 0:08:10.280 --> 0:08:13.640 to fold into the way that I want things done, 0:08:14.040 --> 0:08:18.360 and didn't spend enough time on the team building relationship 0:08:18.440 --> 0:08:20.040 side of it. Just thought it was going to happen, 0:08:20.480 --> 0:08:22.080 and that didn't happen at all. 0:08:22.200 --> 0:08:23.880 So you've been on the board, you've burned, sacked as 0:08:23.920 --> 0:08:25.680 a coach. Was it the right decision to sack mark 0:08:25.720 --> 0:08:26.040 them black? 0:08:27.000 --> 0:08:27.320 It was? 0:08:27.760 --> 0:08:27.960 It was. 0:08:28.680 --> 0:08:35.679 It was a bold decision and Rod Butters and his 0:08:35.800 --> 0:08:38.520 particular board at the time, later on down the track, 0:08:38.600 --> 0:08:40.280 I was to have some issues with the way that 0:08:40.320 --> 0:08:43.880 they were doing things. But to go out and get 0:08:43.920 --> 0:08:46.880 a high profile coach and get to the point of 0:08:47.640 --> 0:08:49.719 saying no, this is not working and then pull the 0:08:49.760 --> 0:08:51.959 trigger out, that's a bold move. You've got to give 0:08:52.000 --> 0:08:55.679 these guys credit for what they did. It would have 0:08:55.720 --> 0:08:57.320 been so easy to just go no, we're just going 0:08:57.360 --> 0:08:58.760 to let it run out and let it run out. 0:08:59.160 --> 0:09:01.200 But they said, no, line in the sand, we need 0:09:01.280 --> 0:09:03.400 to make a change. And I'll give him credit for 0:09:03.440 --> 0:09:05.680 actually doing that because it was a bold, big move. 0:09:05.960 --> 0:09:08.199 And would you have been able to achieve success with 0:09:08.360 --> 0:09:11.080 him there given what you knew about his fifteen games 0:09:11.120 --> 0:09:11.520 in charm. 0:09:12.160 --> 0:09:13.880 No, I don't think so. No, I don't think so. 0:09:14.080 --> 0:09:17.120 I think it was definitely the right move. You've got 0:09:17.160 --> 0:09:20.280 to be all in as a coach. And probably the 0:09:20.360 --> 0:09:24.280 final straw was we saw Malcolm after one game and 0:09:24.360 --> 0:09:26.760 then the following week we played in Brisbane. The next 0:09:26.800 --> 0:09:28.760 time we saw him from the game was when we 0:09:28.840 --> 0:09:31.120 walked into the Gabba and he was putting the magnets 0:09:31.160 --> 0:09:32.880 on the wall. Didn't see him in that whole time, 0:09:33.000 --> 0:09:34.959 seem in that period, and he went back to the 0:09:35.200 --> 0:09:37.960 Gold Coast during the week and Leader's assistant coaches Kenny 0:09:38.000 --> 0:09:42.160 Hickley and those guys run the ship. And that was 0:09:42.240 --> 0:09:44.679 the final straw from the bite. 0:09:44.360 --> 0:09:48.240 Was called humorraban and in a very public execution, removed 0:09:48.280 --> 0:09:52.080 from the post. Fifteen matches, three wins at a cost 0:09:52.120 --> 0:09:55.840 of one million dollars was the same table and so not. 0:09:55.920 --> 0:09:57.920 The lack of introspection from Bloody. But as you say, 0:09:58.000 --> 0:09:59.679 you know, he says, oh you know someone what I 0:09:59.720 --> 0:10:03.000 might and we love Blighty so much. But it's interesting 0:10:03.080 --> 0:10:06.559 that I'm trying to dance on eggshells here that he's 0:10:06.640 --> 0:10:09.120 not able to compute the fact. Okay, for all my greatness, 0:10:09.160 --> 0:10:11.360 I just didn't maybe contribute as much as I needed 0:10:11.400 --> 0:10:11.520 to it. 0:10:11.600 --> 0:10:16.440 Think, yeah, I think he just thought it was going 0:10:16.520 --> 0:10:21.440 to happen, probably didn't pay enough respect to the mess 0:10:21.600 --> 0:10:24.959 that we were in. So the mess of ninety nine 0:10:25.080 --> 0:10:28.200 coming last year, the ladder and the mindset of the group, 0:10:28.280 --> 0:10:32.160 with the fracturedness of the group, the selfishness of the group. 0:10:33.440 --> 0:10:36.200 You can't suddenly go from being a really selfish team 0:10:36.200 --> 0:10:37.880 on the bottom of the ladder who was a mess 0:10:38.240 --> 0:10:40.280 to just go I'm here now, it's going to be fine. 0:10:40.720 --> 0:10:42.719 You've got to work on that mess to get it right. 0:10:43.160 --> 0:10:45.480 And that's the bit he missed out on Grant Thomas 0:10:45.520 --> 0:10:45.959 takes over. 0:10:47.280 --> 0:10:50.439 Do you think it was in Tomo's plan, the master 0:10:50.520 --> 0:10:52.120 plan to become a coach one day or do you 0:10:52.160 --> 0:10:53.360 think it just evolved into that. 0:10:54.640 --> 0:10:59.559 I don't think it did. I think it was. I 0:10:59.600 --> 0:11:02.160 think it was a case of I want what's the 0:11:02.240 --> 0:11:05.360 best for the Saint Kilda footy clumpy. I'm absolutely certain 0:11:05.440 --> 0:11:08.120 he genuinely wants what's best for the Saint Coula Fooday 0:11:08.120 --> 0:11:10.839 Club in any way, shape or form. It got to 0:11:10.920 --> 0:11:13.920 the point where he thought, well, you know what, I 0:11:14.080 --> 0:11:21.920 might be the best it wasn't. Absolutely he was four 0:11:21.960 --> 0:11:26.120 and five prelim finals. Again we fell to the trap 0:11:26.280 --> 0:11:30.800 of one year down and we need someone else to 0:11:30.800 --> 0:11:33.120 put the icing on the cake, and Tom are you going? 0:11:33.200 --> 0:11:36.600 So there's another another sort of scratch on the wall 0:11:36.640 --> 0:11:40.400 of us making that same mistake. But yeah, because Grant 0:11:40.480 --> 0:11:44.719 was a complete opposite tactically, I wasn't a genius. It 0:11:44.840 --> 0:11:48.400 was a very simple game plan, but he got that 0:11:48.600 --> 0:11:51.360 group wanting to be together, wanting to be unselfish, wanting 0:11:51.400 --> 0:11:53.600 to play together, wanting to be around each other, wanting 0:11:53.640 --> 0:11:57.079 to be at the club, the exact thing that Malcolm 0:11:57.160 --> 0:12:00.839 didn't do. Grant was the opposite. And you can tell 0:12:00.960 --> 0:12:03.160 by the results that that's what we needed. 0:12:03.520 --> 0:12:06.079 What would you have won a premiership boner Ground, Thomas 0:12:06.160 --> 0:12:08.439 if the club had stayed the course of course, your 0:12:08.440 --> 0:12:11.240 assistant coach tw thousand and four and five Again another 0:12:11.400 --> 0:12:12.800 misstep by club that's. 0:12:12.679 --> 0:12:15.640 Just come some close to a second premiership. Yeah, exactly, 0:12:15.840 --> 0:12:20.760 and then we dived off slightly. There was a lot 0:12:20.920 --> 0:12:24.959 going on behind the scenes in the coach and the 0:12:25.080 --> 0:12:26.600 president could be in the same room together. 0:12:27.360 --> 0:12:29.240 How tough is that you're living that, you'll live in 0:12:29.280 --> 0:12:31.840 that experience, How tough and were they're incident. 0:12:32.040 --> 0:12:34.600 You know moments that you thought this just this got 0:12:34.679 --> 0:12:37.920 us end. Now let's put them in a room together. No, 0:12:38.120 --> 0:12:40.240 that would have been worse because they would have both 0:12:40.360 --> 0:12:43.280 they would have boxed on both. Happy to be the 0:12:43.320 --> 0:12:48.480 smartest person in the room. Yeah, that's just their personality. 0:12:48.520 --> 0:12:52.480 They're very successful businessman, very successful of what they've ever done. 0:12:52.640 --> 0:12:55.120 But primarily they're happy to be the smartest person in 0:12:55.120 --> 0:12:57.480 the room. They don't need someone else to be smarter 0:12:57.920 --> 0:13:03.720 than them. Tom I genuinely generally wanted to be CEO 0:13:04.440 --> 0:13:06.520 and coach at the same time. He said he could 0:13:06.559 --> 0:13:13.320 do it. I had my doubts. Wanted to be literally wanted. 0:13:14.120 --> 0:13:17.600 He's doing every contract and everything was contracts. The marketing 0:13:17.679 --> 0:13:20.160 department would come and run things by him, the communications 0:13:20.200 --> 0:13:22.360 department would come and run things by him, so he 0:13:22.880 --> 0:13:25.720 had say over everything. He said, I'm doing that anyway. 0:13:26.520 --> 0:13:28.920 He wanted to make me the title, make the CEO, 0:13:29.080 --> 0:13:30.960 and I could do coach and as a coach, I'll 0:13:31.040 --> 0:13:33.959 delegate more to you guys and get you guys to 0:13:34.040 --> 0:13:36.240 run the ship a little bit more. But he saw 0:13:36.320 --> 0:13:39.959 himself more as that sort of English football manager. I'm 0:13:40.000 --> 0:13:43.800 the manager of the club and O the buckstops with me, 0:13:44.160 --> 0:13:45.959 but I've got my assists to do the role. And 0:13:46.000 --> 0:13:49.959 he wanted to reshape the way that coaching was and 0:13:50.480 --> 0:13:53.360 unfortunately Rod Butters and those guys were on a completely 0:13:53.400 --> 0:13:57.559 different page. And they're both forthright in their opinions and 0:13:58.280 --> 0:14:01.040 literally couldn't be in the same room where and I 0:14:01.240 --> 0:14:04.319 was immediated quite often. Don't go in there, don't say that, 0:14:04.440 --> 0:14:08.360 and come back out here. It's not going to end well. Yeah, 0:14:08.440 --> 0:14:10.400 so interesting times off the field, and so. 0:14:10.559 --> 0:14:13.520 Through all this, you're playing great football, you're continuing your role, 0:14:13.800 --> 0:14:15.160 and then you get to the end of your career, 0:14:15.880 --> 0:14:19.160 past the game's record eventually of course pass passed by 0:14:19.200 --> 0:14:21.680 halves and real well, but a stunning career in so 0:14:21.760 --> 0:14:22.240 many ways. 0:14:25.320 --> 0:14:27.600 I got the most out of myself. Yeah, that's I 0:14:27.680 --> 0:14:31.000 can sort of sit back and say, and as I said, 0:14:31.040 --> 0:14:32.960 put my head on my pill at night, and I'm 0:14:33.120 --> 0:14:35.000 content that I managed to do that. 0:14:35.720 --> 0:14:37.640 So you go on to the board from two thousand 0:14:37.640 --> 0:14:42.040 and eight twenty fifteen, Ross Line's there, Rosslyn Leaves, just 0:14:42.120 --> 0:14:44.040 take us through that chapter. And there was a lot 0:14:44.040 --> 0:14:45.840 of talk about a contract that he had and did 0:14:45.840 --> 0:14:47.560 he have clauses or you know, was he looking for 0:14:47.600 --> 0:14:50.240 an earlier contract extension. We know he had financial problems. 0:14:50.720 --> 0:14:52.840 Did secure to stuff up the exit of Ross Line 0:14:52.920 --> 0:14:54.200 for the first time, but. 0:14:54.360 --> 0:14:58.280 First the coaching defection that's left the football world gob smacked. 0:14:58.760 --> 0:15:02.440 Rosslyn has been raided in Fremantle colors just twenty four 0:15:02.560 --> 0:15:05.640 hours after walking out on the Saints. Dale joined the 0:15:05.720 --> 0:15:08.320 Dots were joined now by ten senior football reporter of 0:15:08.440 --> 0:15:09.960 Borders and Rob Where do we begin. 0:15:10.520 --> 0:15:13.880 Well, Helen, it's been a stunning series of developments. Line 0:15:13.920 --> 0:15:16.240 that told his management to get a deal done at 0:15:16.280 --> 0:15:20.080 sin Kilda, then without their knowledge, struck his own at Fremantle. 0:15:20.440 --> 0:15:23.280 A deeply wounded Mark Harvey has been knife in the back. 0:15:23.400 --> 0:15:26.680 And the really Saints Yeah, there's certainly one group who 0:15:26.840 --> 0:15:29.720 think yes, we did, absolutely and the reason why we 0:15:29.840 --> 0:15:32.920 stuffed up was that we delayed it. It took too 0:15:33.040 --> 0:15:37.960 long to actually get to the point of yes, we're recontinuity. 0:15:38.120 --> 0:15:44.080 That's where Ross's team thought we should have got to. Internally, 0:15:44.600 --> 0:15:47.880 there was some issues. Ross is very hard me to 0:15:47.960 --> 0:15:51.760 work for. There was people leaving, good people leaving. There 0:15:51.840 --> 0:15:55.840 was a bit of a fractious relationship. You could almost 0:15:56.000 --> 0:15:59.560 see that the plays that we were playing were all 0:15:59.600 --> 0:16:02.520 the senior guys. The young guys coming through weren't really 0:16:02.880 --> 0:16:05.920 coming through. We were chucking everything at winning that Grand 0:16:05.960 --> 0:16:10.320 Final and sort of sitting back watching and going, yes, 0:16:10.480 --> 0:16:12.840 this is all or nothing at winning that if we 0:16:12.920 --> 0:16:14.600 don't win, that we're going to fall off a cliff. 0:16:14.640 --> 0:16:16.960 And you're that close to We were that close, so 0:16:17.320 --> 0:16:20.440 you know, winning was warpapering over all those cracks, and 0:16:20.520 --> 0:16:22.680 as a board we can still see the cracks, and 0:16:22.760 --> 0:16:25.800 so we were just sort of holding back a little bit. 0:16:26.320 --> 0:16:29.120 So it wasn't out of negligence. It was a calculator decision. 0:16:29.240 --> 0:16:32.120 Calculator decision because everything wasn't roasy. On the field, it 0:16:32.280 --> 0:16:35.040 was we were winning, but off the field it wasn't. 0:16:35.160 --> 0:16:37.000 So we just wanted to make sure that we could 0:16:37.360 --> 0:16:40.400 get that under control first, whereas Ross's team probably thought 0:16:40.440 --> 0:16:43.360 and hang on, we're winning, recontract me and give me 0:16:43.920 --> 0:16:49.600 more power. I still remember the board meeting that Michael Nettlefold, 0:16:49.680 --> 0:16:51.440 the CEO, came in and said, yeah, good news is 0:16:51.480 --> 0:16:56.800 we've agreed with Ross's manager management that were but these 0:16:56.920 --> 0:16:59.960 phone get ringing and it was like, oh, you better 0:17:00.040 --> 0:17:01.840 go and answer that. He said I've got some reporters 0:17:01.920 --> 0:17:03.640 ringing me. So he went out in ten minutes, come 0:17:03.720 --> 0:17:05.720 back in after ten minutes. He said, I think Ross's 0:17:06.480 --> 0:17:09.119 they're telling me he's gone to Fremantle. You're kidding me, 0:17:09.359 --> 0:17:12.479 famous that famous night. Well, where are your meeting at 0:17:12.520 --> 0:17:12.800 the club? 0:17:12.840 --> 0:17:15.320 You meeting at the club, and it's late in the evening, 0:17:15.359 --> 0:17:17.680 it's getting towards late in the evening and towards that. 0:17:17.840 --> 0:17:19.639 So we said, I will get get his manager, get 0:17:19.680 --> 0:17:22.080 Craig Kelly on the phone. So we've got Craig Kelly 0:17:22.160 --> 0:17:26.000 on the phone, who didn't know a thing. Let me 0:17:26.040 --> 0:17:28.879 call you back. And so he called back in fifteen 0:17:28.880 --> 0:17:32.680 minutes time. And I can't repeat the language that Craig 0:17:32.880 --> 0:17:35.760 was using. He's good at it, too good at it. 0:17:35.880 --> 0:17:38.520 When we're not aware of what's going on and we're 0:17:38.560 --> 0:17:42.240 not actually in the process of negotiating any arrangement, it's 0:17:42.280 --> 0:17:44.560 hard then to represent someone and say he represents something. 0:17:44.560 --> 0:17:48.000 The issue was that obviously Craig was also Mark Harvey's manager, correct, 0:17:48.200 --> 0:17:51.880 and so he can't get sort of roster frio by shafting. 0:17:52.040 --> 0:17:54.280 So everything was done around the back door. 0:17:54.440 --> 0:17:56.840 How tense is that you feel like you've been completely 0:17:56.880 --> 0:17:57.840 blindsided there. 0:17:57.960 --> 0:18:03.000 Yeah, yeah, to a large degree. So look, was that 0:18:03.119 --> 0:18:06.440 the right way to go about things? I probably think no. 0:18:08.920 --> 0:18:11.520 Did we force his hand to do that? They probably 0:18:11.560 --> 0:18:16.080 think yes? And so yeah, it's both camps and probably 0:18:16.119 --> 0:18:18.240 think they're they're right a wrong and there's probably an 0:18:18.480 --> 0:18:19.880 element of fault in both sides. 0:18:20.280 --> 0:18:22.719 If I had have said to you that night, one day, 0:18:22.800 --> 0:18:24.320 Ross Lyon's going to come back and coach this and 0:18:24.440 --> 0:18:25.320 Kurita Football Club, what. 0:18:25.280 --> 0:18:30.400 Would you have said a little bit like the old 0:18:31.440 --> 0:18:33.159 Kevin Bartlett, He's not going to go back to the 0:18:33.240 --> 0:18:38.719 club until everyone involved has gone. And that's pretty much 0:18:38.760 --> 0:18:45.840 what happened back when I came and Ross was loved 0:18:45.920 --> 0:18:50.040 by the senior playing Yeah, primarily because Ross had his 0:18:50.400 --> 0:18:53.760 bubble and we had a senior playing group of Nick 0:18:53.840 --> 0:19:03.840 Riewold and Aaron Hamill and Gary and Andy. They loved 0:19:03.840 --> 0:19:06.840 the bubble because it kept the rest of the club out, 0:19:07.600 --> 0:19:11.480 kept the marketing to a large degree, kept the supporters out, 0:19:12.320 --> 0:19:15.840 kept the media out and beautiful, this Blake is protecting us. 0:19:16.560 --> 0:19:21.200 We're getting protected here. So they loved that, and so 0:19:21.320 --> 0:19:25.879 there was a lot of goodwill to Ross from influential 0:19:26.000 --> 0:19:30.240 sections of Saint cul Football Club, and so I think 0:19:30.320 --> 0:19:33.000 that played a role in sort of the getting back. 0:19:33.040 --> 0:19:37.080 And as our history says, we need someone to put 0:19:37.119 --> 0:19:39.120 the icing on the cake. Put the icing on the cake. 0:19:39.160 --> 0:19:39.560 So why not. 0:19:41.400 --> 0:19:43.240 Bring back the guy who baked a pretty good cake 0:19:43.359 --> 0:19:46.200 last time but didn't quite get that. History hasn't really 0:19:46.240 --> 0:19:48.960 worked over the journey quite hasn't. No, it hasn't worked 0:19:48.960 --> 0:19:52.400 at all. No, it's farled every single time. Let's hope 0:19:52.440 --> 0:19:53.840 that history doesn't repeat itself. 0:19:53.880 --> 0:19:56.639 So was roch Ross within his rights to go out 0:19:56.680 --> 0:19:57.880 and explore the Fremantle offer? 0:19:58.080 --> 0:20:00.440 Was he did he backstab you? You know? 0:20:00.680 --> 0:20:03.960 Was your level of your reluctance to sign him indicated 0:20:04.040 --> 0:20:05.200 to him that look, I need to move on. 0:20:06.400 --> 0:20:12.760 Look, we weren't aware of his personal circumstances. Potentially, if 0:20:12.800 --> 0:20:16.120 we had a being could have given him more confidence 0:20:16.200 --> 0:20:18.520 that yes, we're probably going to get there, but you know, 0:20:18.640 --> 0:20:21.359 what's the hurry. You're playing in finals and you're doing 0:20:21.440 --> 0:20:25.200 really well. We'll get there at some stage. I wasn't 0:20:25.320 --> 0:20:28.639 party to those conversations. I wasn't party of the conversations 0:20:28.680 --> 0:20:31.760 with his manager. I was like a third party. Andrew 0:20:31.800 --> 0:20:36.959 Thompson and I were both football directors. This is how 0:20:37.000 --> 0:20:41.200 it is. Ross doesn't like interference from directors. And so 0:20:41.400 --> 0:20:44.840 because Andrew had a relationship with Ross as a player 0:20:44.880 --> 0:20:48.440 who played under him, any questions that I had, I 0:20:48.520 --> 0:20:50.159 had to go to Andrew first, who then go to 0:20:50.280 --> 0:20:52.440 Ross and then come back and then give us the answer. 0:20:52.440 --> 0:20:55.600 So I couldn't actually go and it's very secuitary. It 0:20:55.760 --> 0:20:59.919 is yeah, yeah, and that's the way that we operate. 0:21:00.240 --> 0:21:02.080 And so I sort of kept at arms length. I 0:21:02.320 --> 0:21:04.720 was doing some media at the time. Russ did not 0:21:04.960 --> 0:21:12.119