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Speaker 1: From The Australian. Here's what's on the front. I'm Claire Harvey.

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Speaker 1: It's Friday, April eleven, twenty twenty five. Peter Dutton is

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Speaker 1: steering clear of Australia's CBDs in the run up to

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Speaker 1: the federal election on May three. Exclusive new analysis by

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Speaker 1: The Australian shows the opposition leader is focused on winning

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Speaker 1: seats in the outer suburbs of Sydney, Melbourne and Perth.

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Speaker 1: You can check that out and all our election coverage

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Speaker 1: right now at the Australian dot com dot au. Donald

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Speaker 1: Trump and Shijinping have a lot in common and that's

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Speaker 1: why they're knocking heads in an earth shattering kind of way.

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Speaker 2: Today.

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Speaker 1: Our man in Beijing, North Asia correspondent Will Glasgow on

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Speaker 1: how President she has mishandled the tariff war and how

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Speaker 1: it can possibly be resolved. In the latest ad for

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Speaker 1: Calvin Klein underwear, the Puerto Rican rap superstar Bad Bunny

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Speaker 1: real name Benito Ocasio shows off his abs while dancing

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Speaker 1: around in his Calvins. These cotton box of briefs are

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Speaker 1: at the center of the trade war between the United

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Speaker 1: States and China. That's because Calvin Klein's parent company PBH

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Speaker 1: has been blacklisted by the Chinese government. Blacklisting is one

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Speaker 1: of the tools China users to influence global trade. Previously,

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Speaker 1: its hit defense companies like Rayfeon and Lockheed Martin for

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Speaker 1: selling arms to Taiwan. America accuses China of other tactics too,

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Speaker 1: like pressuring US companies to give up their intellectual property

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Speaker 1: or putting tight export controls on goods America wants like

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Speaker 1: critical minerals. So what's the problem with bad Bunny and

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Speaker 1: his calvins?

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Speaker 2: Do you have your carbin zone?

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Speaker 1: Well, China took great offense to PVH, declaring that, in

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Speaker 1: line with the US government regulations, it would no longer

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Speaker 1: buy cotton from China's Shinjang region, where human rights organizations

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Speaker 1: say there is mass enslavement and forced labor of the

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Speaker 1: local weaker population, something China denies. Black Bands and China's

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Speaker 1: other tactics, plus a giant trade imbalance, are all part

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Speaker 1: of the reason why Donald Trump slapped massive tariffs on

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Speaker 1: China and it all escalated from there.

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Speaker 3: Sujan Pen and Donald Trump are both determined to be

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Speaker 3: the strong man, to not look weak, to not back down.

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Speaker 1: Will Glasgow is the Australian's North Asia correspondent, and he's

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Speaker 1: written a searing opinion piece that accuses Chinese President Shijinping

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Speaker 1: of epic blunders in his handling of the situation.

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Speaker 3: They're both megalamaniacs, right, So advising each of them that

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Speaker 3: you're doing the wrong thing or your strategy is not

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Speaker 3: working is a very brave well, Frankly, it's a career

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Speaker 3: ending decision in both the Trump court and in the

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Speaker 3: She court.

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Speaker 1: So here's where we're at on China. After weeks of

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Speaker 1: escalating tariffs, Donald Trump announced on Liberation Day he'd slap

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Speaker 1: China with a fifty four percent tariff. China's Xijinping fired

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Speaker 1: straight back with a thirty four percent tariff on American goods.

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Speaker 1: Trump hit them with another fifty percent. She added fifty

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Speaker 1: Then on Thursday, Trump reset tariffs in all countries to

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Speaker 1: ten percent, except China, which went up even more to

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Speaker 1: one hundred and twenty five percent.

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Speaker 4: President She he's a friend of mine. I like them,

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Speaker 4: I respect him, but they haven't treated our country. Are

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Speaker 4: sure I'd beat with him?

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Speaker 1: Donald Trump described Jijinping as a friend to someone he respects,

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Speaker 1: a good leader. Do you think the feeling's mutual.

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Speaker 3: Well, I mean the insincerity is mutual, right, I mean

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Speaker 3: in official exchanges, they each pretend right to be polite.

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Speaker 3: Trump does this additional thing, and he's done this all

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Speaker 3: the way through with Hihimpan buttering him up, publicly praising him,

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Speaker 3: saying he's a great leader, a smart guy, a great negotiator,

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Speaker 3: or a tough negotiator, all these things. But yeah, overnight

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Speaker 3: Trump says nice things about she. He also ramped up

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Speaker 3: tariffs again that doubles the costs of Chinese products into

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Speaker 3: the American market, the biggest market in the world. For

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Speaker 3: a lot of traders have told me directly. This was

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Speaker 3: last week. Many Chinese firms said there's no way we

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Speaker 3: can deal with America, that we can trade to America,

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Speaker 3: and they were very surprised at how high that level was. God,

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Speaker 3: you know, that looks like the Sunny Times.

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Speaker 4: Now one week on, Biden allowed China to just take

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Speaker 4: advantage of us. We had like a trillion dollar deficit

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Speaker 4: with China, trillion dollar deficit.

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Speaker 1: The way mo foreign leaders deal with Donald Trump, he's

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Speaker 1: just to capitulate. And we saw very graphically what happens

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Speaker 1: when you don't capitulate the shouting match that Voladimir Zelenski

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Speaker 1: got himself into in the Oval office when he chose

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Speaker 1: not to just g nod and agree with what Jade

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Speaker 1: Vans and Donald Trump was saying. Why isn't Hi Jinping

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Speaker 1: choosing that course?

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Speaker 4: Yeah?

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Speaker 3: Well, you know, I think there's a third strategy, which

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Speaker 3: is tried to not talk to him right.

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Speaker 2: And keep away.

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Speaker 3: Anthony Albernizi has mostly taken that approach. Some people on

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Speaker 3: the Liberal Party have criticized him for it. Frankly, I

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Speaker 3: think it's a pretty smart one. Just don't be on

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Speaker 3: Trump's radar right, having his attention is very dangerous.

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Speaker 2: But she has taken Yeah, the third approach.

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Speaker 3: I mean, no one else has done this, of counterpunching,

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Speaker 3: of being tough.

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Speaker 2: Why does he do it?

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Speaker 3: Hijinping sees himself as the leader of a country as big,

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Speaker 3: as important, if not more than America. He thinks he

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Speaker 3: should be treated as a peer, and he thinks he's

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Speaker 3: being grievously disrespected by Donald Trump, by America, and he's

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Speaker 3: made it very clear he won't tolerated. Now how successful

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Speaker 3: it is, in my opinion, in this last week, it's

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Speaker 3: been an absolute disaster for China. They're a total outlier

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Speaker 3: because Xijianping couldn't do what other world leaders did, which

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Speaker 3: is either you know, he didn't need to butter a

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Speaker 3: ma up like that is an approach for Vietnam and

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Speaker 3: Japan and South Korea's leaders. They directly, they called and

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Speaker 3: spoke to the president and whatever they think privately, they

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Speaker 3: tried to deal with him respectfully, tried to charm him

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Speaker 3: into giving them better terms.

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Speaker 2: Now their outlies too. Most people just didn't speak to Trump.

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Speaker 3: They waited to see if the markets would force his

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Speaker 3: hand before these tariffs actually came into effect. As it was,

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Speaker 3: he did his back down less than twenty four hours

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Speaker 3: after they took effect because of a total meltdown on

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Speaker 3: Wall Street and around the world and on.

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Speaker 2: The bomb market.

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Speaker 3: Had China just set in its hands and done nothing

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Speaker 3: or done nothing more than rhetoric, I mean, it could have,

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Speaker 3: as it always does, filled its papers with angry editorials

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Speaker 3: about America. I mean, it's been making a lot of

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Speaker 3: hay in all the upset from capitals around the world

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Speaker 3: about America. There's a lot of opportunity for China in that,

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Speaker 3: and it's still going to exploit that as much as

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Speaker 3: it can. But what it did, it took actions as

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Speaker 3: well as that, and that's what's created this problem for Trump.

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Speaker 3: And it just seems that by temperament cision Ping is

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Speaker 3: incapable of not counterpunching, and frankly, in Donald Trump, his

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Speaker 3: mirror image, Donald Trump is incapable of being hit and

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Speaker 3: not counter punching. Right, they have a very similar world

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Speaker 3: view and that their products. A very different political systems.

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Speaker 3: But there's a lot of similarities between these two.

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Speaker 1: Coming up. So can this possibly be resolved? Being strong

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Speaker 1: and acting like the biggest panda in the zoo has

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Speaker 1: worked for China until now they are able to use

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Speaker 1: their muscle to make sure that companies who want to

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Speaker 1: do business with China have to play by China's rules.

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Speaker 1: What's the worst case scenario for China in this instance?

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Speaker 1: If the tariffs do remain, for example.

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Speaker 3: A week ago before Liberation Day, this current scenario would

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Speaker 3: be the worst case scenario, frankly, if not worse. Like,

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Speaker 3: you have ten percent reciprocal tariffs on every other economy

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Speaker 3: in the world and over one hundred and twenty percent

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Speaker 3: on China. So the logic of moving your supply chain

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Speaker 3: outside of China now is profound right.

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Speaker 2: You know, Apple's quietly.

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Speaker 3: Done a lot to move supply chains, already reduce its

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Speaker 3: reliance on China, moved to India at quite a pace,

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Speaker 3: move into Vietnam. This current regime, this current setup the

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Speaker 3: Trump's put in place, gives a lot of incentive for

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Speaker 3: that to happen. And that's a very dangerous position for

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Speaker 3: the Chinese economy. China has the option, which it did

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Speaker 3: do in its first term, of not actually collecting the tariff.

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Speaker 3: So there's some things it needs from America, and what

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Speaker 3: it does is it sets a tariff and then actually

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Speaker 3: it's customs just let the product in because they need it.

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Speaker 3: I expect that will be happening in case so they

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Speaker 3: can't replace it, then they're scratching around for other tools,

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Speaker 3: which you know, as you said in your earlier example,

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Speaker 3: punished an American clothing company for not using shinjung cotton

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Speaker 3: or having an opinion on that.

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Speaker 2: They can do that.

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Speaker 3: They can cause a lot of terror for American multinationals

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Speaker 3: operating in China. But seen from Washington, isn't that just

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Speaker 3: nudging the process they want? Isn't that just going to

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Speaker 3: scare American multinationals out of China. China's in a buying there.

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Speaker 3: It's certainly got a lot of tools to make I'm

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Speaker 3: very painful for American or any other multinational in China.

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Speaker 3: But that has a consequence, you know, and weighing that

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Speaker 3: up's tricky for it.

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Speaker 1: Both Donald Trump and the person who was until today

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Speaker 1: his premier advisor on tariff, Pitt Navarro, have said that

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Speaker 1: the issue is not so much tariffs or even unfair practices,

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Speaker 1: it's the deficit, the fact that America buys more from

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Speaker 1: China than itself that this comes into more of a balance.

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Speaker 1: Is that the only way we'll go to see any

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Speaker 1: kind of resolution here.

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Speaker 3: Well, I think the US China showdown or superpowered tussle

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Speaker 3: goes so beyond trade. Right, Let's just say in some

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Speaker 3: magical future there was a perfectly symmetrical trade relationship between

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Speaker 3: China and America. The build up by the People's Operation Army,

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Speaker 3: it's not going to stop freaking out the Pentagon. It's

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Speaker 3: not going to change in any way. China's ambition to

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Speaker 3: reclaim Taiwan bring it under its control. Same with the

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Speaker 3: territorial disputes in South China. See again, that's just in

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Speaker 3: that domain. And then you go into the cyber world.

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Speaker 3: I mean, China's huge cyber capacity that just keeps growing

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Speaker 3: and it's become very sophisticated in recent years. Well that

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Speaker 3: doesn't go away with that kind of scenario either. So

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Speaker 3: you know, just name the domain. China causes anks to

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Speaker 3: America and America causes it back to China, right.

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Speaker 2: I mean, there is definitely a lot.

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Speaker 3: Of psychology going on between these two leaders with huge egos,

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Speaker 3: but there is also a big ideological component to this.

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Speaker 3: America sees itself as a country of manifest destiny. It's

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Speaker 3: destined to lead the world. It sees its system as

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Speaker 3: one that others should follow. And you know, Shijinping he's

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Speaker 3: the President of China, but before that, he's the general

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Speaker 3: secretary of the Chinese Communist Party, and they see America

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Speaker 3: and its political system as potentially an existential threat to it.

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Speaker 3: What she's top KPI is not trade relations or economic growth.

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Speaker 3: It's keeping the Chinese Communist.

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Speaker 2: Party in power.

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Speaker 3: One thing she has got is a clear enemy, right,

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Speaker 3: and he's got he runs a Leninist dictatorship. His party state.

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Speaker 5: Media will be making it very clear that Donald Trump

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Speaker 5: and Imperial America is to blame for all this, and

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Speaker 5: if you feel hardship, blame America right I mean the

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Speaker 5: Chinese internet right now, the reactions to what America has done,

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Speaker 5: the reactions that you see online are just venomous.

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Speaker 3: People are talking about we need to beware for biological

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Speaker 3: attacks from America. They could send another coronavirus. Like there's

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Speaker 3: a lot of paranoia swirling around China. There was already

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Speaker 3: before all this happened about America's intentions. Everything that's happened

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Speaker 3: in this last week and overnight just completely confirms that

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Speaker 3: conspiratorial idea that America is out to contain China.

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Speaker 2: And frankly, I mean, is it a conspiracy?

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Speaker 3: You know, Trump's Treasury Secretary Scott Besson said just after

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Speaker 3: the greatest Chinese CounterPunch, We're going to work with our

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Speaker 3: allies to work against China. Trade was the kind of

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Speaker 3: last buttress in this relationship. She had already got the

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Speaker 3: American business community really offside. It was a very dangerous

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Speaker 3: thing for him when he lost that. China had always

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Speaker 3: had America's business community making the case for China within

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Speaker 3: the American political system. Privately, many in that American business

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Speaker 3: community wanted Trump to get tough on China. She he

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Speaker 3: didn't address any of those concerns from the Americans. So

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Speaker 3: quite a while ago, both sides have sort of singled

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Speaker 3: out the other as a threat, as something that needs

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Speaker 3: to be dealt with, And you know, I think we're

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Speaker 3: just living through a really historic part of that story.

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Speaker 4: I think he's going to want to get to a deal.

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Speaker 4: I think that's going to happen. We'll get a phone

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Speaker 4: call at some point and it'll be off to the races.

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Speaker 4: It'll be a great thing for them, it'll be a

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Speaker 4: great thing for us. It's going to be a great

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Speaker 4: thing for the world and for humanity.

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Speaker 1: Will Glasgow is The Australian's North Asia correspondent. You can

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Speaker 1: read all his coverage right now at the Australian dot

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Speaker 1: com dot au