WEBVTT - #198 Andrea Clarke: How to Lead, Adapt & Thrive in These Crazy Times

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<v Speaker 1>Hi, Ike Boris and this is straight Talk. Andrew Clarke,

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome Straight Talk, Thanks for coming in, Thanks for having me. Well,

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<v Speaker 1>you know my mate Laila McKinnon and she told me

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<v Speaker 1>that she went to one of your talks and she

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<v Speaker 1>gave you a huge rap. So you've got lots to

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<v Speaker 1>live off to have you ready that She's good?

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<v Speaker 2>Now.

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<v Speaker 1>So you're an award and winning author, futurist journalist, but

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<v Speaker 1>you've sort of launched, You've got your new book. Would

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<v Speaker 1>you have a little chat about adapt Not so much

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<v Speaker 1>about the book. We'll talk about the book, but we

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<v Speaker 1>want to talk about what can we take out of

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<v Speaker 1>the book. Maybe he give us a little bit of

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<v Speaker 1>history about your background though, because you've had had an

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<v Speaker 1>interesting sort of career path. You're only very young drive

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<v Speaker 1>because you did tell me we're going to say publicly

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<v Speaker 1>but relatively speaking, I think you're quite young. But you've

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<v Speaker 1>had a fairly full career and we're doing some interesting stuff.

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<v Speaker 1>So maybe take us back to, you know, like your

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<v Speaker 1>early twenties of what were you doing.

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<v Speaker 2>I was a television news reporter, so I started my

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<v Speaker 2>career in at g w waan and Calgooley, so out

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<v Speaker 2>there with all the guys, and I always wanted to

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<v Speaker 2>be a TV reporter, and so I started off doing

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<v Speaker 2>regional and then went to the commercials in Melbourne and Sydney.

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<v Speaker 2>But I actually picked myself up and flew myself to Washington,

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<v Speaker 2>DC when I was twenty nine because I'd always wanted

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<v Speaker 2>to be a foreign correspondent, So moved myself to DC

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<v Speaker 2>with no money, no job, in a very tenuous visa

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<v Speaker 2>situation to have a go because there was only a

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<v Speaker 2>couple of reporters on the East coast of the US,

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<v Speaker 2>so I decided that that was the best way for

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<v Speaker 2>me to accelerate my career and find the kind of

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<v Speaker 2>leadership that I was looking for to be around. So

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<v Speaker 2>had a really dynamic twenties in TV journalism covering general assignments,

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<v Speaker 2>so thrown out every day onto a different story.

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<v Speaker 1>At twenty nine, you were trying to be a foreign correspondent,

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<v Speaker 1>but you weren't before you went nicely said across foreign

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<v Speaker 1>cross bond.

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<v Speaker 2>That's right.

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<v Speaker 1>Did you get how did you get a job? At

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<v Speaker 1>twenty nine? Who signed up? Or did you just freelance?

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<v Speaker 2>So yeah, freelance. So I woke up the next morning

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<v Speaker 2>in Washington, DC, after arriving and started cold calling every

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<v Speaker 2>foreign bureau in the city until Ruters picked up and said,

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<v Speaker 2>come on in. So I spent you know, many fantastic

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<v Speaker 2>years with Thomson Reuters covering State Department, Pandagon and White

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<v Speaker 2>House and all the big names who are in town,

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<v Speaker 2>who come through town.

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<v Speaker 1>How does they work? So you're you in town? You

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<v Speaker 1>love love yourself into Washington literally rent an apartment or

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<v Speaker 1>what are you doing?

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<v Speaker 2>Thought I was in a boarding house.

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<v Speaker 1>Boarding house, Yeah, great, in a boarding house. I was

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<v Speaker 1>on a budget, single female hanging out in a foreign

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<v Speaker 1>country with warriorsome visa. Obviously you don't have much money

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<v Speaker 1>at that stage, and and you start contacting the foreign bureaus.

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<v Speaker 1>What does that mean? Like, what's a foreign bureau? What

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<v Speaker 1>were we talking about?

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<v Speaker 2>Obviously Washington, DC is the center of gravity for international coverage,

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<v Speaker 2>and so you had every country in the world in

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<v Speaker 2>some form represented in the form of a bureau in

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<v Speaker 2>the city. A bureau, so news crew, reporter, local production

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<v Speaker 2>staff that would gather news from North America and communicate

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<v Speaker 2>whatever was going on, mainly from the White House, communicate

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<v Speaker 2>that news to their home country. And so there were

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<v Speaker 2>stacks of bureaus based in the city, and I literally

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<v Speaker 2>started from a went alphabetically and started cold calling every

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<v Speaker 2>bureau to see if they had any opportunity for me

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<v Speaker 2>to freelance there.

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<v Speaker 1>You mean, just just come in and pay me per hour,

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<v Speaker 1>pay me per story or whatever.

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<v Speaker 2>Do you need me to come in and help produce stories,

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<v Speaker 2>to line up talent, to gather news in whatever form

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<v Speaker 2>made sense to that bureau. So that's what I did.

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<v Speaker 2>And I got to r and I was nearly out

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<v Speaker 2>of I only had five working days to get a

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<v Speaker 2>job because I only had five hundred bucks to my name.

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<v Speaker 2>So I had five days.

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<v Speaker 1>So you see, you saw after this, I got to

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<v Speaker 1>go back.

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<v Speaker 2>Home, had to turn around and go back. So I

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<v Speaker 2>had five days and I got to r and this

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<v Speaker 2>really terrific guy called Rob Muir at Rutters, another Aussie,

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<v Speaker 2>picks up the phone and says, come on in and

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<v Speaker 2>I was like, oh, thank God, Like I get to

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<v Speaker 2>stay for another week and we'll just see how long

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<v Speaker 2>this goes for?

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<v Speaker 1>How long did they go for?

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<v Speaker 2>About seven years?

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<v Speaker 1>So you stayed Ruters.

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<v Speaker 2>We sat in DC for seven years, d.

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<v Speaker 1>For seven years. But you got your first a job

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<v Speaker 1>opportunity at Ruter's what did you do after that?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I was producing and gathering news for a couple

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<v Speaker 2>of years for Routers and Channel seven, and then I

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<v Speaker 2>moved into international aid work. So I saw the signal

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<v Speaker 2>of change coming down the pipeline for the business of news,

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<v Speaker 2>and I switched into working for a major international aid organization.

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<v Speaker 2>So essentially what that meant was Iland in Baghdad Island

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<v Speaker 2>in Georgia into.

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<v Speaker 1>BLC Georgia in the ex Soviet country.

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<v Speaker 2>The one that the Russians invaded in about two thousand

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<v Speaker 2>and eight. So I switched from news. I was addicted

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<v Speaker 2>to being in a newsroom because we were I was

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<v Speaker 2>always part of an ultra high performance news team, which

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<v Speaker 2>was a very addictive way to be working. But one

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<v Speaker 2>day I was walking down the street, walking down K Street,

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<v Speaker 2>which is pretty close to the White House. It all

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<v Speaker 2>feels really good, it looks good, it's all shiny and new,

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<v Speaker 2>and there's lots of things to be There's lots of

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<v Speaker 2>things that keep you going in a town like that

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<v Speaker 2>because there's always so much happening. But one day I

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<v Speaker 2>was walking to the Al Jazeera English news bureau where

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<v Speaker 2>I was freelancing that day, and instead of picking up

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<v Speaker 2>a copy of The New York Times, I found myself

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<v Speaker 2>looking at scanning the news headlines on my BlackBerry, and

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<v Speaker 2>I thought, this is a really interesting signs of change.

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<v Speaker 2>Because if I'm a journalist being paid to produce content

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<v Speaker 2>that as a consumer I'm not prepared to pay for,

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<v Speaker 2>then the business model of news is failing right in

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<v Speaker 2>front of me, and I'm a part of it. So

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<v Speaker 2>what I'm going to do? So I ran through the options,

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<v Speaker 2>and for me, you know, I thought, what if my

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<v Speaker 2>behavior scale this is you know, two thousand and eight,

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<v Speaker 2>What if my behavior scale, like what if ten thousand

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<v Speaker 2>people stopped picking up a paper? What if a million

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<v Speaker 2>people stopped picking up a paper? Then what's going to

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<v Speaker 2>happen to the news business? So I decided to resign

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<v Speaker 2>pretty shortly after that, go into international aid. And then

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<v Speaker 2>I found myself in Baghdad pretty shortly after.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, as in Afghanistan.

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<v Speaker 2>In Iraq. Yeah, but we were running major programs in

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<v Speaker 2>Afghanistan as.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, So that's that's pretty hectic. It was pretty hectic

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<v Speaker 1>going from Washington, a nice safe environment to Bagdad. You know,

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<v Speaker 1>it was a war or war well, but it was

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<v Speaker 1>sort of sort of rebuilding, et cetera.

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<v Speaker 2>At that stage, well, it was still volatile. It was

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<v Speaker 2>still a very active war zone in two thousand and eight.

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<v Speaker 2>So I literally literally land. I mean, it was just

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<v Speaker 2>like an out of body experience.

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<v Speaker 1>What does that? What does international aid meet? Like you're

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<v Speaker 1>going around helping people who were underprivileged or injured or what.

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<v Speaker 2>And so the aid organization I was working for had

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<v Speaker 2>a number of pillars that they would use to support

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<v Speaker 2>third world nations, and they were infrastructure, so they'd help

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<v Speaker 2>people rebuild, microfinance grants, so they'd help people locally engaged,

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<v Speaker 2>local residents come back to the city and rebuild their

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<v Speaker 2>business like they might be running a small mechanic shop

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<v Speaker 2>before the war. So micro finance, food, security, medical supplies.

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<v Speaker 2>So there are a number of ways that major international

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<v Speaker 2>groups helped rebuild a nation. And it was my job

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<v Speaker 2>to go in and make an assessment of the projects

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<v Speaker 2>that were being delivered by this organization so we could

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<v Speaker 2>ask for more funding from the US State Department and

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<v Speaker 2>US AID, which Trump is dismantling at the moment. So

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<v Speaker 2>so I had to prove I mean, and there's my

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<v Speaker 2>journalism practice that came into play. So I had to

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<v Speaker 2>interview people on the ground and prove that the money

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<v Speaker 2>that was being spent was being spent well, so we

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<v Speaker 2>could get another billion dollars for Iraq the following year.

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<v Speaker 2>It was big money. Wow, it's a big cooin.

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<v Speaker 1>Pretty deep experience from going from reporting what's going on

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<v Speaker 1>in the US or what's going on in terms of

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<v Speaker 1>those people operating in the US, and then off into

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<v Speaker 1>doing international aid. That's pretty crazy. What do you ask

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<v Speaker 1>that and topic? He didn't get put on a sort

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<v Speaker 1>of an army if couldn't go to war or something.

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<v Speaker 2>No, I I mean I I made a really difficult

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<v Speaker 2>decision because I was just about completely burnt out. Made

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<v Speaker 2>a really difficult decision to pack everything up and come home.

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<v Speaker 2>So I lost my job in the aid organization because

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<v Speaker 2>in principle I had flagged a fairly major misappropriation of funds.

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<v Speaker 2>So I recognized that funds weren't being spent in a

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<v Speaker 2>way that I thought the American public would approve of,

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<v Speaker 2>and lost my job. The CEO figured out that I

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<v Speaker 2>knew what was going on, so I got walked from

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<v Speaker 2>that job. So it was completely devastating, and I did

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<v Speaker 2>pick up another amazing role with the Savedar for coalition.

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<v Speaker 2>So basically I ended up being the communication director to

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<v Speaker 2>help stop the genocide in Sudan at the time. So

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<v Speaker 2>my job for the next twelve months was to organize

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<v Speaker 2>the communication that hassled the Obama administration to appoint a

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<v Speaker 2>US Special to Sudan, which we did in the UN

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<v Speaker 2>General Assembly in two thousand and eight. So it all

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<v Speaker 2>sounds big, but all it is is about influence. It's

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<v Speaker 2>about how do we stop you know, the civil war

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<v Speaker 2>going on in Sudan?

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<v Speaker 1>How could do that sort of job? What do you

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<v Speaker 1>learn for the future, for yourself or as a tool

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<v Speaker 1>you get out of that.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, it's a great question. And I think that that

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<v Speaker 2>that experience propelled me forward to looking for great leadership,

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<v Speaker 2>because when you're.

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<v Speaker 1>In you're looking for greater I mean.

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<v Speaker 2>But it allowed me to prioritize what great leadership looked like, right,

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<v Speaker 2>because you saw great leaders in those moments, and you

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<v Speaker 2>saw leaders who didn't perhaps have the influence that they

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<v Speaker 2>wouldn't want to have. And so for me, it helped

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<v Speaker 2>me recognize what great, what great leadership really looked like.

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<v Speaker 2>And then you know, it made me think about how

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<v Speaker 2>can I translate all of that experience into running a

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<v Speaker 2>small business into you know, eventually coming back to Australia

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<v Speaker 2>and developing a leadership and learning business where I was

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<v Speaker 2>able to translate all of those lessons into leadership programs

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<v Speaker 2>for big businesses like Rio, Tinto, Ostrade, NBN, Aurora.

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<v Speaker 1>AHP, some of your clients. Yeah, you wrote a book

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<v Speaker 1>around this. Yeah, what was that called future Fit Future Fit.

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<v Speaker 1>That's different in this book because we're as you know,

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<v Speaker 1>we're right in the middle of an election period. And

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<v Speaker 1>I had yesterday, sitting right there, the Treasurer of the

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<v Speaker 1>country and I put to him, you know, you're one

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<v Speaker 1>of the senior leaders of government right now and may

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<v Speaker 1>well be you know, after the election as well. And

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<v Speaker 1>of course you know, it's very traumatic at the moment

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<v Speaker 1>out there, at the moment, the stock market's gone mental,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, strain dollars lesson sixty cent. So I don't

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<v Speaker 1>know if it is as we sit here, but it

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<v Speaker 1>was yesterday afternoon. People are getting very nervous. I remember

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<v Speaker 1>this happening during the GEFs. People super innovation balances started

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<v Speaker 1>to go from you know, one hundred thousand down to

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<v Speaker 1>thirty thousand very quickly. People worried about all the money

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<v Speaker 1>they're putting away, their whole life of it. What is

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<v Speaker 1>someone like, what would you say to someone like the

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<v Speaker 1>prime minister or the treasurer or any senior person in

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<v Speaker 1>those roles where they try to they need to build

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<v Speaker 1>confidence back in the system. How do they what do

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<v Speaker 1>they do, what do they talk about? How do they

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<v Speaker 1>go about it? It's a better way.

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<v Speaker 2>I think there's a recognition that has to happen first,

0:12:26.760 --> 0:12:30.200
<v Speaker 2>and awareness that collectively the whole nation is looking to

0:12:30.280 --> 0:12:34.920
<v Speaker 2>them for direction, protection and order in a moment where

0:12:34.960 --> 0:12:38.840
<v Speaker 2>we feel very uncertain, very chaotic, and yeah, we're trying

0:12:38.840 --> 0:12:41.200
<v Speaker 2>to log into our super funds to see what's going

0:12:41.240 --> 0:12:41.720
<v Speaker 2>on there.

0:12:42.640 --> 0:12:44.480
<v Speaker 1>And it's funny you should say that. It's funnish you

0:12:44.600 --> 0:12:46.400
<v Speaker 1>say that because only a week ago some of those

0:12:46.400 --> 0:12:50.559
<v Speaker 1>super funds who were compromised, yes, cyber attack, and that

0:12:50.600 --> 0:12:55.360
<v Speaker 1>would make it doubly worse. And you also said a

0:12:55.440 --> 0:13:00.160
<v Speaker 1>really really good point there. I think at least we

0:13:00.240 --> 0:13:03.960
<v Speaker 1>need them to recognize that there's a problem sort of

0:13:04.720 --> 0:13:06.319
<v Speaker 1>do they need to have a solution as well or

0:13:06.360 --> 0:13:07.200
<v Speaker 1>just recognize the problem.

0:13:07.520 --> 0:13:13.240
<v Speaker 2>I think recognition and an acknowledgment publicly of the problem.

0:13:13.280 --> 0:13:15.040
<v Speaker 2>I don't think that we hear that enough. We don't

0:13:15.040 --> 0:13:20.920
<v Speaker 2>hear politicians saying we really understand how it feels to

0:13:20.960 --> 0:13:24.240
<v Speaker 2>be supporting three kids with three jobs, trying to put

0:13:24.240 --> 0:13:26.320
<v Speaker 2>food on the table, trying to make things work, Like

0:13:26.800 --> 0:13:30.480
<v Speaker 2>I don't hear enough politicians connecting in a real way

0:13:30.520 --> 0:13:33.400
<v Speaker 2>with their constituents by recognizing what the pain the people

0:13:33.400 --> 0:13:35.240
<v Speaker 2>are feeling. I mean, surely you must see that as well.

0:13:35.320 --> 0:13:37.440
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, well, do you think that's the reason for that

0:13:37.520 --> 0:13:39.400
<v Speaker 1>is you get paid, getting paid a lot more money

0:13:39.440 --> 0:13:42.480
<v Speaker 1>than say, their constituency in whatever area they might be.

0:13:42.679 --> 0:13:44.439
<v Speaker 2>I don't think it's got anything to do with the

0:13:44.520 --> 0:13:47.760
<v Speaker 2>kind of coin there on. I think I rarely see

0:13:47.840 --> 0:13:51.160
<v Speaker 2>leaders spend enough time on the front line of change,

0:13:51.240 --> 0:13:54.160
<v Speaker 2>And when you're not close to change, you don't understand

0:13:54.360 --> 0:13:57.440
<v Speaker 2>how change impacts people. And the most important thing that

0:13:57.480 --> 0:14:01.000
<v Speaker 2>we all need to understand about change, particularly leaders, is

0:14:01.040 --> 0:14:06.920
<v Speaker 2>that we are addicted to sameness. We love our routine

0:14:07.120 --> 0:14:10.000
<v Speaker 2>and we don't like change. That's how we're wired, So

0:14:10.280 --> 0:14:14.720
<v Speaker 2>we associate change automatically with loss. Like imagine, I said,

0:14:14.840 --> 0:14:18.280
<v Speaker 2>you imagine for everyone listening, you know I'm your boss,

0:14:18.320 --> 0:14:21.440
<v Speaker 2>and I say, you know there's an email coming your way,

0:14:21.640 --> 0:14:23.840
<v Speaker 2>and the heading is, you know, we need to talk

0:14:24.600 --> 0:14:27.440
<v Speaker 2>like you're going to automatically default to a loss. You're

0:14:27.440 --> 0:14:30.480
<v Speaker 2>going to default to that means something really negative. That's

0:14:30.480 --> 0:14:35.040
<v Speaker 2>a threat to my security, my stability, my status, my financials,

0:14:35.080 --> 0:14:40.440
<v Speaker 2>whatever it might be. I'm not sure that leaders recognize

0:14:40.960 --> 0:14:44.680
<v Speaker 2>how deeply people are impacted by any degree of change.

0:14:45.320 --> 0:14:47.680
<v Speaker 2>We're not wide for it, we don't like it. You know,

0:14:47.760 --> 0:14:50.840
<v Speaker 2>we are constantly clinging to what we know because we

0:14:50.920 --> 0:14:55.240
<v Speaker 2>love certainty. Now, I would say to people, and I

0:14:55.280 --> 0:14:58.160
<v Speaker 2>say to people in my leadership cohorts, what we need

0:14:58.200 --> 0:15:00.600
<v Speaker 2>to do in that moment is interrupt that thought pattern.

0:15:00.640 --> 0:15:04.600
<v Speaker 2>And while we recognize that the situation may not be great,

0:15:05.080 --> 0:15:08.080
<v Speaker 2>we also need to find the upside in what change

0:15:08.840 --> 0:15:11.480
<v Speaker 2>provides us, Like, what's the opportunity in this change? How

0:15:11.520 --> 0:15:14.720
<v Speaker 2>can we demonstrate some personal agency in moments where we

0:15:14.760 --> 0:15:17.760
<v Speaker 2>do feel uncertain, and how do we understand what we

0:15:17.800 --> 0:15:19.200
<v Speaker 2>can control and can't control.

0:15:19.800 --> 0:15:22.680
<v Speaker 1>That's very interesting because I said to their treasurer, and

0:15:22.720 --> 0:15:26.960
<v Speaker 1>he told her quite a hard rendering story about when

0:15:26.960 --> 0:15:30.400
<v Speaker 1>he was a young man, as still at school, that

0:15:30.520 --> 0:15:33.400
<v Speaker 1>he was a bit wayward when he was growing up,

0:15:34.120 --> 0:15:40.480
<v Speaker 1>and largely probably because he didn't have proper parenting as

0:15:40.520 --> 0:15:42.240
<v Speaker 1>a kid, and his mum and dad split up, et cetera.

0:15:42.840 --> 0:15:44.960
<v Speaker 1>Those things can affect a boy, I guess, and a girl.

0:15:45.280 --> 0:15:47.600
<v Speaker 1>But he had two older sisters, and he said that

0:15:48.360 --> 0:15:52.080
<v Speaker 1>he met up with a guy who was a teacher

0:15:52.080 --> 0:15:53.520
<v Speaker 1>at the school actually sort of took him out of

0:15:53.520 --> 0:15:56.160
<v Speaker 1>his wing and sort of talk to him and gave

0:15:56.240 --> 0:16:00.360
<v Speaker 1>him some mentoring, and as a result of that, he

0:16:00.480 --> 0:16:03.400
<v Speaker 1>decided he wanted to become a politician or be in

0:16:03.880 --> 0:16:09.040
<v Speaker 1>the public policy environment, not a politician necessarily, and in

0:16:09.160 --> 0:16:13.600
<v Speaker 1>terms of his leadership journey, he saw that as a

0:16:13.640 --> 0:16:17.760
<v Speaker 1>very important thing. But he also mentioned so first I

0:16:17.760 --> 0:16:19.400
<v Speaker 1>want to say to you, ask you how important is

0:16:19.440 --> 0:16:23.440
<v Speaker 1>that in the leadership journey that you get mentorship from

0:16:23.480 --> 0:16:24.600
<v Speaker 1>somebody who's valuable.

0:16:25.320 --> 0:16:29.280
<v Speaker 2>I think that role models models the right role model

0:16:30.440 --> 0:16:33.800
<v Speaker 2>at the right time is an absolute game changer. And

0:16:33.800 --> 0:16:36.360
<v Speaker 2>I'm sure that we would both now think about the

0:16:36.360 --> 0:16:38.200
<v Speaker 2>people who had an impact on us for our lives.

0:16:38.840 --> 0:16:42.520
<v Speaker 2>And I think we need to rethink what role models

0:16:42.560 --> 0:16:45.720
<v Speaker 2>are these days because I do not believe we should

0:16:45.720 --> 0:16:49.480
<v Speaker 2>be basing role models around money, fame, or power. I

0:16:49.480 --> 0:16:51.960
<v Speaker 2>think we should be looking at why people do the

0:16:52.040 --> 0:16:54.840
<v Speaker 2>things they do instead of what they actually do. And

0:16:54.920 --> 0:16:57.400
<v Speaker 2>I think the right role model, a strong role model,

0:16:57.440 --> 0:17:00.960
<v Speaker 2>positions us to establish a stronger action of values. So

0:17:01.760 --> 0:17:06.320
<v Speaker 2>a great role model really serves three functions. They inspire

0:17:06.400 --> 0:17:09.320
<v Speaker 2>us by showing us what's possible. They can influence our

0:17:09.359 --> 0:17:12.520
<v Speaker 2>goals and our motivation, and they serve as a behavioral

0:17:12.600 --> 0:17:16.480
<v Speaker 2>example of success. And I think that's the key word.

0:17:16.840 --> 0:17:22.080
<v Speaker 2>If behaviors and intentions of our role models expire, then

0:17:22.080 --> 0:17:23.960
<v Speaker 2>we tend to look elsewhere for a new role model.

0:17:24.000 --> 0:17:27.560
<v Speaker 2>But I had the most incredible professor at university who

0:17:27.600 --> 0:17:31.600
<v Speaker 2>said to me at eighteen, you can do anything you want.

0:17:31.720 --> 0:17:33.840
<v Speaker 2>You can go around the world, and you can do

0:17:33.880 --> 0:17:36.879
<v Speaker 2>anything you want. And I believed him. I believed him,

0:17:36.920 --> 0:17:38.800
<v Speaker 2>and so I did. And I had that in the

0:17:38.800 --> 0:17:41.600
<v Speaker 2>back of my mind from the age of eighteen, and

0:17:41.640 --> 0:17:45.400
<v Speaker 2>that was such a powerful and simple throwaway statement for him,

0:17:46.080 --> 0:17:48.560
<v Speaker 2>but it meant a lot to me, and it's something

0:17:48.560 --> 0:17:50.800
<v Speaker 2>that I carried with me. It gave me the confidence

0:17:50.880 --> 0:17:53.639
<v Speaker 2>because I thought if doctor Peter Young, who at the

0:17:53.680 --> 0:17:56.360
<v Speaker 2>time I think was about sixty, who'd been a war

0:17:56.400 --> 0:17:58.680
<v Speaker 2>correspondent and being to all these places that I wanted

0:17:58.680 --> 0:18:01.600
<v Speaker 2>to go to looked at me, and he saw in

0:18:01.680 --> 0:18:06.960
<v Speaker 2>me potential, and if he could just throw a few

0:18:07.000 --> 0:18:08.959
<v Speaker 2>lines my way, he wouldn't have He would have had

0:18:09.000 --> 0:18:11.760
<v Speaker 2>no idea how that impacted me. But that gave me

0:18:11.840 --> 0:18:14.480
<v Speaker 2>the confidence to think I really can go and do that,

0:18:14.640 --> 0:18:17.399
<v Speaker 2>and sometimes that's all we need in that moment of

0:18:17.520 --> 0:18:21.480
<v Speaker 2>uncertainty or vulnerability. So I think we should always be

0:18:21.520 --> 0:18:25.480
<v Speaker 2>looking for role models that demonstrate the kind of behaviors

0:18:25.800 --> 0:18:29.120
<v Speaker 2>and intentions that we feel aligned with. And we all

0:18:29.119 --> 0:18:31.400
<v Speaker 2>know what an anti role model looks like. Right at

0:18:31.400 --> 0:18:33.879
<v Speaker 2>some point in our careers. We've had someone in our

0:18:33.960 --> 0:18:36.200
<v Speaker 2>life who we've thought, oh, I actually don't want to

0:18:36.240 --> 0:18:38.120
<v Speaker 2>be that person. And I had that in a newsroom.

0:18:38.440 --> 0:18:39.840
<v Speaker 2>You know. That was one of the reasons why I

0:18:39.880 --> 0:18:41.679
<v Speaker 2>decided to get out of news, not just because the

0:18:41.680 --> 0:18:44.800
<v Speaker 2>business model was failing, but because I would consistently be

0:18:44.800 --> 0:18:49.800
<v Speaker 2>looking around the newsroom and think that that's not demonstrating

0:18:49.880 --> 0:18:51.960
<v Speaker 2>good leadership. I don't believe I don't want to be

0:18:52.000 --> 0:18:54.800
<v Speaker 2>that person, you know, when I'm in my mid fifties,

0:18:54.880 --> 0:18:58.040
<v Speaker 2>So how do I sort of change course? Now? But

0:18:58.119 --> 0:19:01.320
<v Speaker 2>a great role model is a game changes. So I

0:19:01.320 --> 0:19:03.240
<v Speaker 2>don't think we should ever it doesn't matter who you

0:19:03.280 --> 0:19:06.680
<v Speaker 2>are and where you work in society. We should never

0:19:07.200 --> 0:19:10.439
<v Speaker 2>underestimate the impact that we have on people around us

0:19:10.480 --> 0:19:19.120
<v Speaker 2>because mental sponsors and advisors. Advisors are so foundational to

0:19:19.640 --> 0:19:21.680
<v Speaker 2>giving that advice that we need to hear in the

0:19:21.760 --> 0:19:22.360
<v Speaker 2>right moments.

0:19:22.760 --> 0:19:27.800
<v Speaker 1>It's funny the treasure said something like, if you aren't

0:19:27.880 --> 0:19:30.679
<v Speaker 1>these aren't these words. But if you are given a talent,

0:19:33.440 --> 0:19:37.560
<v Speaker 1>you have responsibility to make use of that talent. And

0:19:37.600 --> 0:19:39.639
<v Speaker 1>that's sort of I think that's sort of what you said,

0:19:40.160 --> 0:19:44.480
<v Speaker 1>because most people don't if they've become influential, don't recognize

0:19:45.000 --> 0:19:47.600
<v Speaker 1>a their talent. They might think they've got a talent

0:19:47.640 --> 0:19:49.520
<v Speaker 1>certainly ways, but they don't realize what their real talent is,

0:19:49.560 --> 0:19:51.840
<v Speaker 1>but they don't actually do anything with it. A lot

0:19:51.880 --> 0:19:56.240
<v Speaker 1>of times that they don't pay it forward to any

0:19:56.280 --> 0:20:00.440
<v Speaker 1>audience for that matter. And that's sort of what he does.

0:20:00.480 --> 0:20:03.000
<v Speaker 1>That's what he tries to do. I mean, it seems

0:20:03.000 --> 0:20:05.960
<v Speaker 1>to me that I said to him, I said, Treasurer,

0:20:07.160 --> 0:20:10.320
<v Speaker 1>to make change, it takes courage. I wonder if you're

0:20:11.520 --> 0:20:14.199
<v Speaker 1>I was talking to him about when I don't want

0:20:14.200 --> 0:20:17.040
<v Speaker 1>to get political, but I was talking about when his

0:20:17.200 --> 0:20:20.000
<v Speaker 1>predecessor in the Labor Party was a guy called Chris Bowen,

0:20:20.080 --> 0:20:23.560
<v Speaker 1>and Chris Bowen in the election with when Bill Shorten

0:20:23.640 --> 0:20:28.680
<v Speaker 1>was going for Prime minister, decided to bring in a

0:20:28.720 --> 0:20:35.240
<v Speaker 1>whole lot of policy changes, financial policy changes to and

0:20:35.480 --> 0:20:39.000
<v Speaker 1>presented them to the Electric before the election, things like

0:20:39.040 --> 0:20:41.320
<v Speaker 1>silly things like get rid of need to gearing change,

0:20:41.359 --> 0:20:44.480
<v Speaker 1>the couple of games, takes in lots of people's home investments,

0:20:45.040 --> 0:20:46.800
<v Speaker 1>you get rid of Frankie credits, which in a lot,

0:20:46.840 --> 0:20:49.560
<v Speaker 1>a whole lot of old Astrayans rely on to fund

0:20:49.600 --> 0:20:53.320
<v Speaker 1>their lifestyle. And of course Shorten lost the election. And

0:20:53.480 --> 0:20:55.240
<v Speaker 1>I said, sometimes it takes a lot of courage to

0:20:55.280 --> 0:20:58.640
<v Speaker 1>say those things. You, on the other hand, don't say

0:20:58.640 --> 0:21:02.879
<v Speaker 1>anything controversial. Does that mean as a leader you're not

0:21:02.920 --> 0:21:06.040
<v Speaker 1>being courageous? You know what would your mentor from when

0:21:06.080 --> 0:21:08.280
<v Speaker 1>you were sixteen or seventeen say to you about that?

0:21:10.200 --> 0:21:12.520
<v Speaker 1>And you said to it before, we don't like change.

0:21:12.800 --> 0:21:17.440
<v Speaker 1>And governments sort of know that. They poll and they do,

0:21:17.480 --> 0:21:20.080
<v Speaker 1>they check things out, they don't make mistakes too many

0:21:20.160 --> 0:21:24.439
<v Speaker 1>times these days, Well that Trump's proven that theory a

0:21:24.440 --> 0:21:29.240
<v Speaker 1>bit wrongs. Yeah, totally, but as the Australian government, and

0:21:29.320 --> 0:21:31.280
<v Speaker 1>I said to him, like, do you ever feel as

0:21:31.320 --> 0:21:36.000
<v Speaker 1>though you're not being courageous enough as a leader. How

0:21:36.000 --> 0:21:38.480
<v Speaker 1>do you reconcile A. I want to be the leader.

0:21:38.480 --> 0:21:39.959
<v Speaker 1>I've got to stay as I need to stay as

0:21:40.040 --> 0:21:44.520
<v Speaker 1>leader to get my ambitions done. I don't mean personal ambitions,

0:21:44.560 --> 0:21:48.160
<v Speaker 1>my ambitions for the nation done. But on the other hand,

0:21:48.680 --> 0:21:51.520
<v Speaker 1>if I'm too courageous, I could lose the election because Australians,

0:21:51.560 --> 0:21:53.480
<v Speaker 1>as you said, people don't like change.

0:21:53.600 --> 0:21:55.600
<v Speaker 2>I think that people get paid to have an opinion,

0:21:57.160 --> 0:22:01.440
<v Speaker 2>whether you're a CEO, regardless of your leadership position, people

0:22:01.520 --> 0:22:02.120
<v Speaker 2>vote you in.

0:22:02.240 --> 0:22:03.000
<v Speaker 1>So take the risk.

0:22:03.200 --> 0:22:06.280
<v Speaker 2>Take the risk. Absolutely, there's not enough risk going on

0:22:06.320 --> 0:22:07.679
<v Speaker 2>across his country in business.

0:22:07.680 --> 0:22:10.600
<v Speaker 1>Don't you think I'm not in favorable the way he

0:22:10.640 --> 0:22:13.439
<v Speaker 1>does it at all? But I make too many courageous

0:22:15.480 --> 0:22:17.879
<v Speaker 1>take too many courageous steps. Sometimes they turn around and

0:22:17.880 --> 0:22:20.800
<v Speaker 1>do work so well. But I don't really care care.

0:22:20.840 --> 0:22:22.920
<v Speaker 1>I couldn't give a shit. I'm not trying to become

0:22:22.920 --> 0:22:24.880
<v Speaker 1>the treasurer of the Prime Minister. I mean I'm running

0:22:24.920 --> 0:22:26.560
<v Speaker 1>my own show and I can do it. I want

0:22:26.560 --> 0:22:27.800
<v Speaker 1>sort of thing, and I'm lucky enough to be in

0:22:27.840 --> 0:22:33.040
<v Speaker 1>that position. He's not, And it's a hard thing. Sometimes

0:22:33.040 --> 0:22:35.560
<v Speaker 1>it can be hard to reconcile because look, I let's

0:22:35.600 --> 0:22:38.320
<v Speaker 1>say he's speaking, I have this ambition for this nation

0:22:38.960 --> 0:22:41.639
<v Speaker 1>to do blah blah blah blah, but I'm not going

0:22:41.720 --> 0:22:43.760
<v Speaker 1>to I need to be the treasurer in order to

0:22:43.800 --> 0:22:46.120
<v Speaker 1>do it. I need my party to win in order

0:22:46.200 --> 0:22:48.359
<v Speaker 1>to do it. So I'm not going to do anything

0:22:48.359 --> 0:22:50.320
<v Speaker 1>crazy at the moment. I'm just gonna look at the

0:22:50.320 --> 0:22:52.119
<v Speaker 1>poles where people don't want to change, and I'll make

0:22:52.160 --> 0:22:56.240
<v Speaker 1>sure I just play that game. Whereas other people will

0:22:56.240 --> 0:22:58.960
<v Speaker 1>go and they just set the joint light like Trump

0:23:00.040 --> 0:23:03.840
<v Speaker 1>and bugger the consequences. I'm just going to set the

0:23:03.920 --> 0:23:06.720
<v Speaker 1>joint Logers. I actually, I presume you honestly believes that

0:23:06.760 --> 0:23:08.360
<v Speaker 1>what he's doing at the moment has actually become better

0:23:08.400 --> 0:23:10.919
<v Speaker 1>for Americans. How's that reconciled.

0:23:11.520 --> 0:23:14.000
<v Speaker 2>He's out playing golf, well, the whole well, the world's

0:23:14.040 --> 0:23:17.159
<v Speaker 2>blowing up, Like I mean, I saw that morning, and

0:23:17.200 --> 0:23:21.880
<v Speaker 2>I thought, to me, that is that exercising leadership? I don't.

0:23:21.920 --> 0:23:25.440
<v Speaker 2>I mean, I'm not really sure. I think I think

0:23:26.760 --> 0:23:30.359
<v Speaker 2>you have to stay connected to what's going on in

0:23:30.359 --> 0:23:33.719
<v Speaker 2>the community, so be present with everyone absolutely. How can

0:23:33.760 --> 0:23:36.640
<v Speaker 2>you make decisions that are really well informed? If you're

0:23:36.640 --> 0:23:38.720
<v Speaker 2>on the top floor and everyone else is running around

0:23:38.720 --> 0:23:40.960
<v Speaker 2>on the ground floor, you've you've got no direct line

0:23:40.960 --> 0:23:44.480
<v Speaker 2>of sight, you know, with what's going on, how things

0:23:44.520 --> 0:23:47.919
<v Speaker 2>are changing, and how people are experiencing change. So I

0:23:47.920 --> 0:23:50.080
<v Speaker 2>think regardless of where you are where you sit as

0:23:50.080 --> 0:23:52.720
<v Speaker 2>a leader, you know the most incredible leaders that I've

0:23:52.720 --> 0:23:55.240
<v Speaker 2>worked with, and Mike Snider at Bunnings is a great example.

0:23:55.440 --> 0:23:58.040
<v Speaker 2>He's out there sweeping the floor full clean and tidy,

0:23:58.440 --> 0:24:00.720
<v Speaker 2>you know, at the end of every day with his staff,

0:24:00.760 --> 0:24:03.879
<v Speaker 2>so he understands, he's listening to the conversations, he's hearing

0:24:03.880 --> 0:24:06.320
<v Speaker 2>what's going on. He's on the front line of change.

0:24:06.720 --> 0:24:10.359
<v Speaker 2>So regardless of where we sit in any leadership position,

0:24:11.520 --> 0:24:14.680
<v Speaker 2>it pays to stay connected to what people are going through,

0:24:14.720 --> 0:24:18.200
<v Speaker 2>whether they're customers, constituents, or you know, whoever is a

0:24:18.240 --> 0:24:21.959
<v Speaker 2>recipient of your leadership. If we're not connected, how can

0:24:22.000 --> 0:24:24.880
<v Speaker 2>we make decisions at the right time that are going

0:24:24.920 --> 0:24:26.840
<v Speaker 2>to be in the best interests for that collective?

0:24:27.600 --> 0:24:30.160
<v Speaker 1>It. Yeah, and I keep coming back to financial things,

0:24:30.160 --> 0:24:34.159
<v Speaker 1>but I remember when the COVID hit and everything was

0:24:34.200 --> 0:24:39.399
<v Speaker 1>sort of traumatic, quite traumatic, and the Reserve Bank governor

0:24:40.840 --> 0:24:42.520
<v Speaker 1>is not the current Reserve band government. The old Reserve

0:24:42.520 --> 0:24:44.439
<v Speaker 1>Bank governor was up there talking about now I'm going

0:24:44.480 --> 0:24:45.800
<v Speaker 1>to put in trades down to point one and what

0:24:45.920 --> 0:24:48.440
<v Speaker 1>it was. And then we had the Prime Minister saying

0:24:48.480 --> 0:24:52.359
<v Speaker 1>something we had the Probably more importantly, we had the

0:24:52.400 --> 0:24:57.520
<v Speaker 1>state premiers and their health ministers telling us every day

0:24:57.560 --> 0:24:59.399
<v Speaker 1>with so many COVID cases, so many deaths, as only

0:24:59.440 --> 0:25:02.240
<v Speaker 1>people in hospit all this sort of stuff daily and

0:25:02.320 --> 0:25:05.600
<v Speaker 1>I thought it was I just wonder why we don't

0:25:05.640 --> 0:25:10.680
<v Speaker 1>get the Reserve Being governor, who at the time was

0:25:10.720 --> 0:25:12.880
<v Speaker 1>different to the current Reserve being. Why we just get

0:25:13.440 --> 0:25:16.280
<v Speaker 1>him up there along with say the Prime Minister and

0:25:16.320 --> 0:25:20.680
<v Speaker 1>along with say I don't know, the Minister for Health,

0:25:20.680 --> 0:25:21.800
<v Speaker 1>for Federal mins f Health.

0:25:22.000 --> 0:25:22.560
<v Speaker 2>The whole gang.

0:25:22.600 --> 0:25:24.680
<v Speaker 1>It's a gang, and just put them up on because

0:25:24.680 --> 0:25:26.480
<v Speaker 1>this used to have many I remember as a kid

0:25:26.520 --> 0:25:28.919
<v Speaker 1>this just happened. Put them on the ABC because you know,

0:25:28.960 --> 0:25:33.879
<v Speaker 1>it's respected national broadcaster, not to say the others aren't,

0:25:33.880 --> 0:25:35.800
<v Speaker 1>but as a respect to national broadcasts, and you know

0:25:35.800 --> 0:25:38.520
<v Speaker 1>it's the owned by the government. And let's say we're

0:25:38.520 --> 0:25:40.160
<v Speaker 1>going to do an interview on Sunday night at seven

0:25:40.160 --> 0:25:43.919
<v Speaker 1>pm to all Australians. Not an interview, but have a chat,

0:25:44.520 --> 0:25:46.359
<v Speaker 1>just tell you what's going on with this COVID stuff

0:25:46.840 --> 0:25:50.880
<v Speaker 1>and all's one though not not separately, all together, and

0:25:51.280 --> 0:25:54.719
<v Speaker 1>explain what we're thinking and how we're walking, walking our

0:25:54.720 --> 0:25:56.240
<v Speaker 1>way through. I wonder why they do that.

0:25:56.640 --> 0:26:01.439
<v Speaker 2>I feel like, I mean, the greatest missed opportunity in

0:26:01.520 --> 0:26:09.359
<v Speaker 2>most leadership practices is communication, right. It's the most important

0:26:09.600 --> 0:26:18.080
<v Speaker 2>part of having influence, communicating change and keeping people informed,

0:26:18.160 --> 0:26:20.960
<v Speaker 2>and yet we haven't. We don't see that enough. I

0:26:20.960 --> 0:26:24.359
<v Speaker 2>think across corporate Australia we didn't see it. Then across COVID,

0:26:24.480 --> 0:26:27.560
<v Speaker 2>and what was interesting to me was we had different

0:26:27.600 --> 0:26:30.280
<v Speaker 2>states with very different ways of handling things, and so

0:26:30.840 --> 0:26:35.720
<v Speaker 2>any continuity would have been helpful in the overall approach

0:26:35.800 --> 0:26:40.080
<v Speaker 2>to how the country was tackling COVID, and there was

0:26:40.119 --> 0:26:43.800
<v Speaker 2>so much uncertainty and fear, and we certainly did not

0:26:44.000 --> 0:26:47.120
<v Speaker 2>see enough. I mean, as a former journalist looking at

0:26:47.119 --> 0:26:50.679
<v Speaker 2>the way that played out, the greatest missed opportunity was

0:26:51.920 --> 0:26:55.919
<v Speaker 2>more continuity in communication with people about what was going on.

0:26:55.960 --> 0:26:58.199
<v Speaker 2>I know we had daily briefings, right, but they were

0:26:58.240 --> 0:27:01.919
<v Speaker 2>all different. They were all different. So the average Australian

0:27:02.080 --> 0:27:06.439
<v Speaker 2>is sitting around with relatives in another state. In some

0:27:06.600 --> 0:27:10.399
<v Speaker 2>cases people who are terminally unwell in other state with

0:27:10.560 --> 0:27:13.160
<v Speaker 2>no idea if or when they were going to see

0:27:13.200 --> 0:27:15.439
<v Speaker 2>them again because all the states have different rules. So

0:27:16.680 --> 0:27:18.760
<v Speaker 2>a class and that will be a case study in

0:27:18.920 --> 0:27:20.520
<v Speaker 2>universities and used to come because.

0:27:20.320 --> 0:27:22.280
<v Speaker 1>They didn't they did have a national group, but they

0:27:22.320 --> 0:27:23.439
<v Speaker 1>met in they met in private.

0:27:23.480 --> 0:27:25.199
<v Speaker 2>I met in private. We didn't know, we didn't know.

0:27:25.400 --> 0:27:27.720
<v Speaker 1>We didn't get to talk to, you know, the primacy

0:27:27.760 --> 0:27:30.760
<v Speaker 1>sit premiers. But it was a private conversation. And I

0:27:30.880 --> 0:27:33.200
<v Speaker 1>used to think, well, just let me know, Like I'm

0:27:33.200 --> 0:27:35.560
<v Speaker 1>not dumb. They don't really a wood duck.

0:27:35.640 --> 0:27:37.720
<v Speaker 2>I mean, I'm happy to listen, give me a And

0:27:37.720 --> 0:27:40.000
<v Speaker 2>we were complying a summary, yes, and we were complying.

0:27:40.080 --> 0:27:43.080
<v Speaker 2>And I think the the damage that was done was

0:27:43.080 --> 0:27:46.280
<v Speaker 2>the erosion of trust. And you know, the erosion of

0:27:46.280 --> 0:27:49.400
<v Speaker 2>trust and governments has shifted to you know, to business,

0:27:49.440 --> 0:27:53.080
<v Speaker 2>So everyone who goes to work is now looking to

0:27:53.200 --> 0:27:59.040
<v Speaker 2>their business as that trusted source of information and cohesion.

0:27:59.040 --> 0:28:01.520
<v Speaker 2>They're not necessarily looking to the government anymore because of

0:28:01.600 --> 0:28:03.679
<v Speaker 2>how much trust was lost over that period of time.

0:28:04.080 --> 0:28:07.320
<v Speaker 2>And I wonder what's going to happen if we have

0:28:07.400 --> 0:28:11.000
<v Speaker 2>another version of the pandemic, I suspect we will not

0:28:11.040 --> 0:28:16.280
<v Speaker 2>see people be as compliant. I completely agree, and I

0:28:16.320 --> 0:28:20.320
<v Speaker 2>don't think we can underestimate what's lost when that erosion

0:28:20.359 --> 0:28:23.040
<v Speaker 2>of trust happens, whether that is in the workplace or

0:28:23.520 --> 0:28:26.840
<v Speaker 2>socially or in the community or whatever context, because you know,

0:28:26.880 --> 0:28:29.760
<v Speaker 2>the DNA of trust is really straightforward. When I'm thinking

0:28:29.760 --> 0:28:32.040
<v Speaker 2>about whether or not to trust you, I'm asking myself

0:28:32.040 --> 0:28:36.960
<v Speaker 2>three questions. Is this person consistent? You know, is there

0:28:37.040 --> 0:28:42.880
<v Speaker 2>are there behaviors consistent? Do they have the character? Do

0:28:42.920 --> 0:28:45.840
<v Speaker 2>they have the resources, the skills and the wherewithal to

0:28:46.280 --> 0:28:49.160
<v Speaker 2>do what they tell me they're going to do? Character?

0:28:49.240 --> 0:28:55.080
<v Speaker 2>Consistency and competency? And are they competent? Do they are

0:28:55.120 --> 0:28:58.160
<v Speaker 2>they prepared for this? So if we see a crack

0:28:58.240 --> 0:29:01.360
<v Speaker 2>in any of in that thread of DNA, the DNA

0:29:01.400 --> 0:29:04.760
<v Speaker 2>of trust, we're going to step back. And where that

0:29:04.840 --> 0:29:07.240
<v Speaker 2>erosion of trust has already happened, it's very difficult to

0:29:07.280 --> 0:29:09.920
<v Speaker 2>repair trust. And I think we saw that happen at

0:29:09.960 --> 0:29:13.960
<v Speaker 2>scale during COVID, and I think across the globe totally.

0:29:15.080 --> 0:29:18.560
<v Speaker 1>Do you set the communication peace on leadership? Just generally,

0:29:19.840 --> 0:29:24.120
<v Speaker 1>I can ask you three parts three questions around that

0:29:24.240 --> 0:29:30.080
<v Speaker 1>So the first question is what do I communicate in

0:29:30.160 --> 0:29:33.560
<v Speaker 1>terms of content? Second question is how do I communicate?

0:29:33.640 --> 0:29:38.920
<v Speaker 1>In other words, how often is it?

0:29:38.960 --> 0:29:39.480
<v Speaker 2>Frequency?

0:29:39.800 --> 0:29:42.880
<v Speaker 1>Is it like if I'm a business leader, is it

0:29:43.480 --> 0:29:46.200
<v Speaker 1>via zoom or is it or is it in person

0:29:46.400 --> 0:29:50.160
<v Speaker 1>or et cetera? And when do I communicate it? Do

0:29:50.200 --> 0:29:53.160
<v Speaker 1>I do it? Do I wait? Like we've got a

0:29:53.200 --> 0:29:56.080
<v Speaker 1>global financial issue potentially arising at the moment, Do I

0:29:56.120 --> 0:29:57.720
<v Speaker 1>wait until it becomes a problem or do I start

0:29:57.760 --> 0:30:00.960
<v Speaker 1>talking about it now? So? What how and when we

0:30:01.320 --> 0:30:02.360
<v Speaker 1>do leaders to communicate?

0:30:03.360 --> 0:30:10.120
<v Speaker 2>Anytime? Every communication is about change, So whenever there's a change,

0:30:10.280 --> 0:30:12.320
<v Speaker 2>I mean it depends on the context, right. So I

0:30:12.360 --> 0:30:15.400
<v Speaker 2>was actually watching Scott Gallaway yesterday on Instagram and I

0:30:15.440 --> 0:30:18.000
<v Speaker 2>thought I loved that he jumped on He was walking

0:30:18.040 --> 0:30:20.800
<v Speaker 2>around a college tour and he jumped on Instagram and

0:30:20.840 --> 0:30:23.959
<v Speaker 2>he started communicating what was going on with the selloff.

0:30:24.080 --> 0:30:30.120
<v Speaker 2>So generally speaking, every piece of communication is about change,

0:30:30.160 --> 0:30:32.600
<v Speaker 2>otherwise you wouldn't be communicating. So anytime there's something to

0:30:32.640 --> 0:30:35.280
<v Speaker 2>communicate around change, do it?

0:30:35.920 --> 0:30:37.480
<v Speaker 1>So how do I just stop this? So on change,

0:30:37.480 --> 0:30:41.320
<v Speaker 1>do you mean something that's changing out there better what

0:30:41.760 --> 0:30:42.440
<v Speaker 1>I'm used.

0:30:42.240 --> 0:30:45.480
<v Speaker 2>To, Anything that's going to disrupt the status quo. Anything

0:30:45.560 --> 0:30:50.560
<v Speaker 2>that impacts your clients, your customers, your constituents, your stuff, yep,

0:30:50.640 --> 0:30:53.400
<v Speaker 2>your stuff. Absolutely, anything that's going to impact them that

0:30:53.480 --> 0:31:00.080
<v Speaker 2>needs to be communicated. Secondly, communicate candidly and frequently. So

0:31:00.360 --> 0:31:03.360
<v Speaker 2>what people want to feel like is the conversation we're

0:31:03.360 --> 0:31:05.800
<v Speaker 2>having now. I want to feel like that tone and

0:31:05.880 --> 0:31:09.000
<v Speaker 2>style and everything about this would be carried over if

0:31:09.040 --> 0:31:11.760
<v Speaker 2>we're sitting around having a coffee, right, So you want

0:31:11.800 --> 0:31:14.760
<v Speaker 2>to be canned in conversational in the way you communicate.

0:31:14.360 --> 0:31:16.800
<v Speaker 1>So it's not written off a script.

0:31:17.200 --> 0:31:20.160
<v Speaker 2>I ignore the script. Yeah, and I think that many

0:31:21.160 --> 0:31:23.360
<v Speaker 2>many leaders know that leaders we are a really great

0:31:23.360 --> 0:31:26.160
<v Speaker 2>communicator to spend hours preparing as well that people don't

0:31:26.200 --> 0:31:29.000
<v Speaker 2>really you know, that's not really shared, but it's something

0:31:29.000 --> 0:31:32.200
<v Speaker 2>that they do privately. But they prioritize communication as a

0:31:32.240 --> 0:31:35.000
<v Speaker 2>skill in the same way they prioritize reading a P

0:31:35.120 --> 0:31:37.440
<v Speaker 2>and L sheet, in the same way that they prioritize

0:31:37.440 --> 0:31:42.320
<v Speaker 2>other technical skills that keep their business going. So prioritize

0:31:43.120 --> 0:31:46.240
<v Speaker 2>when something needs to be when there needs to be

0:31:46.280 --> 0:31:49.720
<v Speaker 2>comes around change, do it conversationally and candidly in a

0:31:49.760 --> 0:31:52.440
<v Speaker 2>way that's natural to you and effortless to you, what

0:31:52.520 --> 0:31:53.160
<v Speaker 2>was the third one?

0:31:53.640 --> 0:31:57.640
<v Speaker 1>And how often? Like you know, what's the process? So

0:31:57.680 --> 0:31:59.640
<v Speaker 1>I do it every day? Well, because we saw the

0:31:59.720 --> 0:32:01.840
<v Speaker 1>drink they did every day, But do I do this

0:32:01.920 --> 0:32:06.360
<v Speaker 1>every day? Like good examples today, Let's say we talked

0:32:06.400 --> 0:32:09.720
<v Speaker 1>yesterday about look, guys, there's a global issue at the

0:32:09.720 --> 0:32:12.960
<v Speaker 1>moment in relation austrain dollar, et cetera, et cetera. Do

0:32:13.040 --> 0:32:14.680
<v Speaker 1>I go back the next day and say, look, here's

0:32:14.680 --> 0:32:15.080
<v Speaker 1>an update.

0:32:15.160 --> 0:32:16.840
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I would treat it like breaking news.

0:32:17.080 --> 0:32:21.840
<v Speaker 1>So I would so anything new that comes up or

0:32:21.840 --> 0:32:24.120
<v Speaker 1>any change in from the day before.

0:32:24.800 --> 0:32:27.160
<v Speaker 2>This is the missed opportunity that super funds have with

0:32:27.280 --> 0:32:29.600
<v Speaker 2>all of their all of their members.

0:32:29.640 --> 0:32:31.280
<v Speaker 1>I haven't seen one super fund, but I don't.

0:32:31.120 --> 0:32:35.000
<v Speaker 2>See a single super fund communicating anything, and I haven't

0:32:35.120 --> 0:32:37.120
<v Speaker 2>none to saved for the past hour of many years.

0:32:37.720 --> 0:32:40.960
<v Speaker 2>Like that, to me, will end up costing them in

0:32:41.000 --> 0:32:43.520
<v Speaker 2>some way. If I was a CEO of a super fund,

0:32:43.520 --> 0:32:46.200
<v Speaker 2>I'd be doing a live video link every day to

0:32:46.520 --> 0:32:49.080
<v Speaker 2>whatever member I wanted to join that zoom call and

0:32:49.120 --> 0:32:52.120
<v Speaker 2>be communicating anything that's going to help me feel more

0:32:52.160 --> 0:32:55.160
<v Speaker 2>comfortable about this change that we're experiencing. That's the I

0:32:55.240 --> 0:32:58.920
<v Speaker 2>believe people get paid to demonstrate leadership if they're the CEO.

0:32:59.080 --> 0:33:02.320
<v Speaker 2>I also believe that CEOs get paid to communicate change,

0:33:02.880 --> 0:33:05.240
<v Speaker 2>you know, as frequently as they feel necessary.

0:33:05.600 --> 0:33:07.560
<v Speaker 1>So sort of like you're saying, it's nearly like a

0:33:07.640 --> 0:33:10.320
<v Speaker 1>job spec like you're going to put in a CEO. You're

0:33:10.320 --> 0:33:12.959
<v Speaker 1>getting paid the extra amount of dollars. Part of your

0:33:13.040 --> 0:33:17.600
<v Speaker 1>job specification is that you must communicate. Obviously you must community,

0:33:17.640 --> 0:33:19.480
<v Speaker 1>but you must communicate when there's change that effects on

0:33:19.480 --> 0:33:25.320
<v Speaker 1>either clients, yeah, suppliers, staff, et cetera. You must communicate.

0:33:25.640 --> 0:33:27.959
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. I mean, I'm coming from a comms background, you know,

0:33:28.000 --> 0:33:31.280
<v Speaker 2>seventeen years in journalism, but I don't I think that

0:33:31.280 --> 0:33:36.360
<v Speaker 2>that is a basic, like a basic criteria as a leader.

0:33:36.480 --> 0:33:38.760
<v Speaker 2>I think comms is part of leadership and we don't

0:33:38.760 --> 0:33:42.680
<v Speaker 2>see it demonstrated enough because the Australian business community anyway

0:33:42.760 --> 0:33:45.720
<v Speaker 2>seems to be you know, they've gotten away with having

0:33:46.040 --> 0:33:49.840
<v Speaker 2>barely any comms directly. There are only very few Australian

0:33:49.960 --> 0:33:52.880
<v Speaker 2>leaders like Shane Elliott was a great example a enz.

0:33:53.800 --> 0:33:56.520
<v Speaker 2>He's putting himself up. He has put himself up previously

0:33:56.560 --> 0:34:00.640
<v Speaker 2>on radio, He's done Facebook lives with clients, He's on

0:34:00.720 --> 0:34:03.040
<v Speaker 2>the front line understanding what's happening. There are very few

0:34:03.160 --> 0:34:06.280
<v Speaker 2>Australian leaders across business community who really do that and

0:34:06.360 --> 0:34:08.520
<v Speaker 2>mean it. And I think that if we saw more

0:34:08.560 --> 0:34:11.880
<v Speaker 2>of that, we would have more trust in business, in

0:34:11.960 --> 0:34:15.520
<v Speaker 2>big business, and if we saw it with government leaders

0:34:15.520 --> 0:34:19.960
<v Speaker 2>who were doing it in ways that the less orchestrated,

0:34:20.160 --> 0:34:22.719
<v Speaker 2>I think we'd also have a greater sense of trust him.

0:34:22.680 --> 0:34:24.680
<v Speaker 1>Less of a performance less it's.

0:34:24.480 --> 0:34:26.480
<v Speaker 2>Pretty performative at the moment, I think we could agree.

0:34:27.040 --> 0:34:30.120
<v Speaker 1>I mean it kills me, But I actually said, to

0:34:30.560 --> 0:34:33.239
<v Speaker 1>the truth of yessays said, mate, you're very polished, and

0:34:33.760 --> 0:34:38.360
<v Speaker 1>which I admire. He's very polished and very structured and

0:34:38.520 --> 0:34:43.560
<v Speaker 1>very in control and sensible about what he's doing. In

0:34:43.640 --> 0:34:46.360
<v Speaker 1>other words, I wouldn't be able to put him off balance.

0:34:46.560 --> 0:34:48.400
<v Speaker 1>I know I couldn't get but he's at polished. I

0:34:48.400 --> 0:34:49.920
<v Speaker 1>couldn't put him off balance. I could have tried, but

0:34:49.920 --> 0:34:52.000
<v Speaker 1>I didn't want to try. But I felt like he's

0:34:52.320 --> 0:34:55.439
<v Speaker 1>he'll have a good comeback and a personal audience would

0:34:55.480 --> 0:34:57.640
<v Speaker 1>know whether I was right, here's right or wrong. But

0:34:58.600 --> 0:35:00.800
<v Speaker 1>I know I don't have people on my should debate anyway.

0:35:00.840 --> 0:35:03.440
<v Speaker 1>But because the debate can happen on Sky news on

0:35:03.520 --> 0:35:06.000
<v Speaker 1>Thursday night or whatever. But that's not my game. I'm

0:35:06.000 --> 0:35:08.040
<v Speaker 1>not here to debate with anybody. I'm here to try

0:35:08.080 --> 0:35:11.359
<v Speaker 1>and understand what's going on. Just can I go back

0:35:11.360 --> 0:35:16.400
<v Speaker 1>to that trust element for and I think it's really important.

0:35:16.719 --> 0:35:21.399
<v Speaker 1>You said the word familiar So it's funny. I often

0:35:21.440 --> 0:35:23.319
<v Speaker 1>say to myself, who do I trust the most? I

0:35:23.320 --> 0:35:25.440
<v Speaker 1>trust my family the most. Why do I trust my

0:35:25.480 --> 0:35:27.960
<v Speaker 1>family the most? It doesn't necessarily mean I like everything

0:35:27.960 --> 0:35:30.480
<v Speaker 1>they do, but I know I've watched them all of

0:35:30.520 --> 0:35:32.480
<v Speaker 1>their lives, and I know what they're likely to do.

0:35:32.520 --> 0:35:36.319
<v Speaker 1>I have a sort of strong sense of outcomes. So

0:35:36.840 --> 0:35:42.000
<v Speaker 1>and because when I talk about brands, I often say

0:35:42.239 --> 0:35:45.360
<v Speaker 1>a brand to be trusted, it won't happen overnight. People

0:35:45.400 --> 0:35:48.680
<v Speaker 1>have to become familiar with it, as in a family sense.

0:35:49.440 --> 0:35:51.600
<v Speaker 1>You can even make mistakes, just like in a family,

0:35:51.640 --> 0:35:53.279
<v Speaker 1>but you still forgive your family at the end of

0:35:53.280 --> 0:35:55.279
<v Speaker 1>the day because I don't know your family, and you

0:35:55.320 --> 0:35:58.720
<v Speaker 1>trust them, and because you trust them, they're your family.

0:35:59.080 --> 0:36:01.600
<v Speaker 1>Because your family you trust with, let the go both ways.

0:36:02.239 --> 0:36:06.360
<v Speaker 1>And familiarity is like if it's a brand, it's about

0:36:06.360 --> 0:36:08.600
<v Speaker 1>me seeing it more often. The more often I see

0:36:08.640 --> 0:36:10.360
<v Speaker 1>the brand and I don't even know what the ads about,

0:36:10.880 --> 0:36:11.640
<v Speaker 1>but I just see it.

0:36:11.680 --> 0:36:13.640
<v Speaker 2>But there's a presence there, there's a visibility.

0:36:14.080 --> 0:36:19.680
<v Speaker 1>And so how closely aligned is trust and familiarity as

0:36:19.680 --> 0:36:21.759
<v Speaker 1>opposed to you're not going to do the wrong thing

0:36:21.800 --> 0:36:24.000
<v Speaker 1>by me? That just those two is a very much

0:36:24.040 --> 0:36:27.480
<v Speaker 1>in a serviceable familiarity. I know who that organization is

0:36:27.920 --> 0:36:30.000
<v Speaker 1>by virtual the fact they've been around for ten years.

0:36:30.280 --> 0:36:31.040
<v Speaker 1>How strong is that?

0:36:31.080 --> 0:36:33.279
<v Speaker 2>I think what's most important is when you feel like

0:36:33.280 --> 0:36:35.839
<v Speaker 2>there's been an erosion of trust or trust has been

0:36:36.520 --> 0:36:39.720
<v Speaker 2>undermined in some way, your response to that is most important,

0:36:39.800 --> 0:36:42.719
<v Speaker 2>whether you're a brand or a business owner. So and

0:36:42.760 --> 0:36:47.200
<v Speaker 2>I see this on you know, in small ways locally myself,

0:36:48.320 --> 0:36:53.439
<v Speaker 2>with local businesses getting negative reviews, they'll often call ten

0:36:53.480 --> 0:36:58.399
<v Speaker 2>people who trust the business to get online and put

0:36:58.480 --> 0:37:02.160
<v Speaker 2>up a positive comment Google. Yeah, yeah, basically. But I

0:37:02.200 --> 0:37:05.799
<v Speaker 2>think what's important is what you do about how you

0:37:05.840 --> 0:37:10.680
<v Speaker 2>respond in those moments where trust has been eroded. And

0:37:10.760 --> 0:37:13.000
<v Speaker 2>if you've got a formidia, if you've already been if

0:37:13.000 --> 0:37:16.920
<v Speaker 2>you've been practicing visibility and familiarity as a brand for

0:37:17.080 --> 0:37:19.200
<v Speaker 2>years before something goes wrong, then you've got a much

0:37:19.200 --> 0:37:22.720
<v Speaker 2>better chance of recovering that relationship with people who.

0:37:22.560 --> 0:37:24.359
<v Speaker 1>Are important to you just by virtual time.

0:37:24.440 --> 0:37:28.360
<v Speaker 2>Absolutely yeah, but again a commitment to communication and a

0:37:28.360 --> 0:37:33.520
<v Speaker 2>commitment to being visible and being familiar in moments where

0:37:34.719 --> 0:37:37.120
<v Speaker 2>you don't necessarily have to, but you choose to do that.

0:37:37.239 --> 0:37:41.440
<v Speaker 2>Because if you're a business that's grounded in integrity and

0:37:42.360 --> 0:37:46.040
<v Speaker 2>building relationships for the long term, that's part of the strategy.

0:37:45.719 --> 0:37:48.279
<v Speaker 2>It's something that will come naturally to you because you

0:37:50.080 --> 0:37:53.120
<v Speaker 2>don't necessarily need a big strategy around it. But trust

0:37:53.160 --> 0:37:56.120
<v Speaker 2>is built over time. It's lost very quickly, but it's

0:37:56.200 --> 0:37:59.040
<v Speaker 2>what you do in those moments where it's eroded that matters.

0:37:59.040 --> 0:38:00.920
<v Speaker 2>It's how you respond in those moments.

0:38:01.120 --> 0:38:03.640
<v Speaker 1>So we've got some in Australia. We've got a couple

0:38:03.640 --> 0:38:07.640
<v Speaker 1>of really big organizations, two in particular who I won't

0:38:07.719 --> 0:38:11.440
<v Speaker 1>name them, but one of which is a mining company

0:38:11.520 --> 0:38:15.839
<v Speaker 1>from Australia and another one is a city based tech

0:38:15.880 --> 0:38:21.279
<v Speaker 1>company and there's been a trust erosion relation to both

0:38:23.000 --> 0:38:28.320
<v Speaker 1>in both examples of the CEO, dash chairman, leader, leaders

0:38:28.320 --> 0:38:30.320
<v Speaker 1>of the business and the big shoulders in the business.

0:38:31.000 --> 0:38:35.520
<v Speaker 1>And what would you because you don't know what I'm

0:38:35.520 --> 0:38:37.600
<v Speaker 1>talking about in particular, but what would you say to

0:38:37.640 --> 0:38:41.800
<v Speaker 1>those organizations because it seems like those people are pushing

0:38:41.840 --> 0:38:44.399
<v Speaker 1>back saying, well, look this's my business, I control it.

0:38:45.120 --> 0:38:48.640
<v Speaker 1>I've been good for you so far, trust me. But

0:38:48.680 --> 0:38:50.520
<v Speaker 1>they haven't really come out and said it, like I

0:38:50.520 --> 0:38:52.200
<v Speaker 1>haven't seen them get on the front foot and actually

0:38:52.239 --> 0:38:55.120
<v Speaker 1>talk about it. Definitely not going to get on to

0:38:55.239 --> 0:38:57.160
<v Speaker 1>a teally out or anything like that, but I haven't

0:38:57.160 --> 0:39:00.400
<v Speaker 1>seen any interviews from them. They've sort of gone to ground.

0:39:01.120 --> 0:39:03.680
<v Speaker 1>And there's that old saying in PR give good news

0:39:03.680 --> 0:39:05.120
<v Speaker 1>oxygen and some other bad news.

0:39:06.960 --> 0:39:09.000
<v Speaker 2>I don't know if I believe either of those, you know,

0:39:09.080 --> 0:39:12.160
<v Speaker 2>having watched good news and bad news play out for

0:39:12.200 --> 0:39:15.080
<v Speaker 2>so long in my career, I think that the brands

0:39:15.080 --> 0:39:21.279
<v Speaker 2>and the businesses that have demonstrated longevity have demonstrated consistent communication.

0:39:21.680 --> 0:39:24.719
<v Speaker 1>Warren Buffett good example, totally unbelievably.

0:39:24.160 --> 0:39:27.440
<v Speaker 2>And what have you got to lose by doing a

0:39:27.480 --> 0:39:29.400
<v Speaker 2>live stream and talking to your people? What have you

0:39:29.400 --> 0:39:32.360
<v Speaker 2>got to lose? And so I think that that visibility

0:39:32.400 --> 0:39:37.000
<v Speaker 2>again is fundamental to the trust equation. And if you

0:39:37.520 --> 0:39:39.480
<v Speaker 2>want to disappear, that's fine, but I think there'll be

0:39:39.520 --> 0:39:42.240
<v Speaker 2>a cost to that over time. And you're already raising

0:39:42.280 --> 0:39:45.480
<v Speaker 2>issues around trust because you haven't seen either of these

0:39:45.560 --> 0:39:47.480
<v Speaker 2>leaders come out and say anything. So there's a great

0:39:47.480 --> 0:39:48.640
<v Speaker 2>example of what we're talking about.

0:39:49.080 --> 0:39:50.839
<v Speaker 1>It's interesting. I know both of them, and I thought

0:39:50.840 --> 0:39:54.280
<v Speaker 1>to myself, have you asked them why they No? I haven't.

0:39:54.360 --> 0:39:57.520
<v Speaker 1>I thought. In fact, one of them I've done a

0:39:57.560 --> 0:40:00.120
<v Speaker 1>show on with and the other one once stage that

0:40:00.239 --> 0:40:04.440
<v Speaker 1>was a shohold of mine. And I always considered more

0:40:04.440 --> 0:40:06.960
<v Speaker 1>of them to be quite a good friend. But I

0:40:07.040 --> 0:40:10.400
<v Speaker 1>wonder as a leader, just a community leader, not in

0:40:10.480 --> 0:40:13.920
<v Speaker 1>their particular industry leader. Do you think someone like me

0:40:14.040 --> 0:40:15.520
<v Speaker 1>I should be reaching out to them?

0:40:16.800 --> 0:40:19.840
<v Speaker 2>Why would you reach out to them to give the

0:40:19.880 --> 0:40:21.240
<v Speaker 2>fair back that you've already given them.

0:40:21.120 --> 0:40:23.360
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, or just to talk about what I just talked about. Hey, guys,

0:40:23.440 --> 0:40:27.320
<v Speaker 1>I haven't. I mean, you've just sort of gone aground.

0:40:27.800 --> 0:40:28.600
<v Speaker 1>Why don't you.

0:40:28.680 --> 0:40:30.960
<v Speaker 2>Well, you know, if they were adults, I mean part

0:40:30.960 --> 0:40:33.719
<v Speaker 2>of me thinks they're educated adults right in the show.

0:40:34.120 --> 0:40:37.040
<v Speaker 1>They have understandable leadership there, No, And I.

0:40:36.960 --> 0:40:39.239
<v Speaker 2>Do think that there's a disconnect where I do think

0:40:39.280 --> 0:40:41.640
<v Speaker 2>that you. For a long time, That's what I got

0:40:41.640 --> 0:40:43.360
<v Speaker 2>paid to do. I was a media trainer's top a

0:40:43.480 --> 0:40:45.759
<v Speaker 2>six leaders. I'd come in and I'm the bad I

0:40:45.800 --> 0:40:47.840
<v Speaker 2>can be the bad guy, you know, and they're in

0:40:47.920 --> 0:40:50.919
<v Speaker 2>their staff would say to me, look, this person has

0:40:50.960 --> 0:40:54.600
<v Speaker 2>moved from CFO to CEO. Bottom line is he's not

0:40:54.640 --> 0:40:57.160
<v Speaker 2>behaving like the CEO. He's still behaving like the CFO.

0:40:57.280 --> 0:40:59.520
<v Speaker 2>So we need you to come in and play the

0:40:59.560 --> 0:41:03.160
<v Speaker 2>bad cop and to you know, basically say that to

0:41:03.280 --> 0:41:07.080
<v Speaker 2>him and elevate his presence, you know, on camera. So

0:41:07.480 --> 0:41:09.799
<v Speaker 2>I'd happily do that because I was an outsider a

0:41:09.800 --> 0:41:12.640
<v Speaker 2>lot of people that you know, this is an interesting

0:41:12.640 --> 0:41:14.719
<v Speaker 2>part of leadership and role models. Who are we surrounding

0:41:14.719 --> 0:41:17.560
<v Speaker 2>ourselves with, who are our sort of personal board of directors?

0:41:17.600 --> 0:41:22.200
<v Speaker 2>And are we getting one version of the truth from them?

0:41:22.719 --> 0:41:25.240
<v Speaker 2>Do we need to be looking further afield to get

0:41:25.840 --> 0:41:29.520
<v Speaker 2>unfiltered advice from people who are watching what else is

0:41:29.600 --> 0:41:32.640
<v Speaker 2>changing around us. So maybe that could be a really

0:41:32.719 --> 0:41:36.759
<v Speaker 2>valuable conversation that would pay off. And you know, I

0:41:36.880 --> 0:41:40.880
<v Speaker 2>know that any leader who has any degree of humility

0:41:40.880 --> 0:41:46.839
<v Speaker 2>would welcome an observation that would bring them, bring those

0:41:46.960 --> 0:41:52.719
<v Speaker 2>leaders closer to their their customers, closer to understanding what's

0:41:52.800 --> 0:41:55.680
<v Speaker 2>changing for those customers, and also grow the business at

0:41:55.680 --> 0:41:56.239
<v Speaker 2>the same time.

0:41:56.360 --> 0:41:59.440
<v Speaker 1>So why not what about a leader is really highly

0:41:59.480 --> 0:42:02.600
<v Speaker 1>skilled and the best person for the job in terms

0:42:02.600 --> 0:42:07.560
<v Speaker 1>of skill sets, but is shy. What do you as

0:42:07.640 --> 0:42:10.360
<v Speaker 1>a trainer type person, someone who tries to get the

0:42:10.360 --> 0:42:12.680
<v Speaker 1>best out of these individuals? How do you work with

0:42:12.760 --> 0:42:14.680
<v Speaker 1>someone like that? Do you? How do you get them

0:42:14.719 --> 0:42:16.839
<v Speaker 1>confident to sit in front of camera? Like a lot

0:42:16.840 --> 0:42:19.920
<v Speaker 1>of people, as soon as that camera's on, they change.

0:42:20.480 --> 0:42:24.680
<v Speaker 1>I mean I see it in this job. And in fact,

0:42:24.680 --> 0:42:27.120
<v Speaker 1>the very first time I ever had to do something

0:42:27.120 --> 0:42:28.520
<v Speaker 1>in front of a camera, which is like a long

0:42:28.520 --> 0:42:32.040
<v Speaker 1>long time ago, I remember like, well, like it was

0:42:32.080 --> 0:42:35.040
<v Speaker 1>a bit scary, like yeah, it's intimidating. I got nervous.

0:42:35.800 --> 0:42:37.600
<v Speaker 1>I don't ask why when I look back at it,

0:42:37.600 --> 0:42:40.120
<v Speaker 1>but I just did. What do you do for these people?

0:42:40.200 --> 0:42:41.719
<v Speaker 2>We have to get out of our own road.

0:42:42.680 --> 0:42:43.239
<v Speaker 1>What does that mean?

0:42:43.360 --> 0:42:45.000
<v Speaker 2>We have to whatever?

0:42:45.480 --> 0:42:46.400
<v Speaker 1>We get over yourself.

0:42:46.520 --> 0:42:49.200
<v Speaker 2>You have to get over yourself. I mean, don't. I've

0:42:49.200 --> 0:42:52.360
<v Speaker 2>had seventeen years as an on camera news reporter. I

0:42:52.440 --> 0:42:56.200
<v Speaker 2>do not enjoy. I would rather be in your seat.

0:42:56.520 --> 0:43:01.719
<v Speaker 2>But the message that I have around adapting more effectively

0:43:01.760 --> 0:43:04.520
<v Speaker 2>to change is far more important than how I feel

0:43:04.520 --> 0:43:07.640
<v Speaker 2>about myself. So I've got to get out of my

0:43:07.640 --> 0:43:09.680
<v Speaker 2>own road. And that is the same advice I give

0:43:09.719 --> 0:43:13.200
<v Speaker 2>to anyone who I've worked with previously who has a

0:43:13.320 --> 0:43:16.560
<v Speaker 2>job needs to communicate change but doesn't like being on camera.

0:43:17.760 --> 0:43:19.880
<v Speaker 2>Just get out of your own road, because it's actually

0:43:19.880 --> 0:43:22.520
<v Speaker 2>not about you. It's about your audience. It's always and

0:43:22.600 --> 0:43:25.640
<v Speaker 2>only about your audience and how and the kind of

0:43:25.719 --> 0:43:29.799
<v Speaker 2>influence that you want to have over them, regardless of

0:43:29.800 --> 0:43:30.520
<v Speaker 2>how shy you are.

0:43:31.080 --> 0:43:33.360
<v Speaker 1>Let's say, and I see this all the time, a

0:43:33.360 --> 0:43:38.440
<v Speaker 1>lot of these organizations have a corporate affairs person and

0:43:39.360 --> 0:43:41.719
<v Speaker 1>usually when it's pretty bad news, they said that person

0:43:41.760 --> 0:43:43.680
<v Speaker 1>had to be the spokesperson. So and you're read in

0:43:43.680 --> 0:43:46.239
<v Speaker 1>the paper a spokesperson for said blah blah blah as

0:43:46.239 --> 0:43:47.960
<v Speaker 1>opposed to the individual. Is that do you think that's

0:43:48.040 --> 0:43:49.640
<v Speaker 1>damaging to their organization?

0:43:50.040 --> 0:43:53.280
<v Speaker 2>I mean it depends on the scale of the issue.

0:43:53.440 --> 0:43:55.160
<v Speaker 1>Less it's an important issue and they just run a

0:43:55.239 --> 0:43:55.520
<v Speaker 1>a cover.

0:43:56.320 --> 0:43:59.080
<v Speaker 2>Oh, I mean we all know how that plays out.

0:43:59.360 --> 0:44:02.360
<v Speaker 2>I think it's a I think that anytime a CEO.

0:44:03.040 --> 0:44:06.560
<v Speaker 2>I think if it's if you're a CEO running a

0:44:06.600 --> 0:44:10.520
<v Speaker 2>business and the business has a problem, again, get out

0:44:10.560 --> 0:44:12.640
<v Speaker 2>of your own road and get on camera and start

0:44:12.640 --> 0:44:14.960
<v Speaker 2>communicating that change to people who are important to you,

0:44:15.160 --> 0:44:15.839
<v Speaker 2>whoever they are.

0:44:16.200 --> 0:44:17.520
<v Speaker 1>Is it important to see you made a mistake?

0:44:17.680 --> 0:44:20.319
<v Speaker 2>If definitely well, I mean obviously that their lawyers would

0:44:20.320 --> 0:44:24.000
<v Speaker 2>disagree without depending on the situation. But I think that

0:44:24.000 --> 0:44:28.319
<v Speaker 2>that only builds trust if you have an honest and

0:44:28.440 --> 0:44:32.800
<v Speaker 2>direct line of communication with your constituents. And I watched

0:44:32.800 --> 0:44:36.279
<v Speaker 2>this with I won't name names, but one of the

0:44:36.480 --> 0:44:39.640
<v Speaker 2>big banking guys, probably about seven or eight years ago,

0:44:41.360 --> 0:44:44.759
<v Speaker 2>everyone knew he was really arrogant, didn't really feel any

0:44:44.840 --> 0:44:48.200
<v Speaker 2>obligation whatsoever to communicate to any of his forty thousand

0:44:48.280 --> 0:44:52.040
<v Speaker 2>staff or hundreds of thousands of customers. Now, how much

0:44:52.120 --> 0:44:56.600
<v Speaker 2>social capital do you think he had when something went

0:44:56.640 --> 0:44:59.960
<v Speaker 2>wrong and the board was looking at him and think

0:45:00.000 --> 0:45:02.319
<v Speaker 2>thinking he's got to go right. I would argue that

0:45:02.320 --> 0:45:07.480
<v Speaker 2>Shane Elliott has a much better chance of staying in

0:45:07.520 --> 0:45:10.279
<v Speaker 2>the gig long term. I'd argue that he has longevity

0:45:10.360 --> 0:45:13.440
<v Speaker 2>because every day he's out demonstrating that he cares a

0:45:13.480 --> 0:45:17.279
<v Speaker 2>lot about what customers think, what his employees think about

0:45:17.280 --> 0:45:19.800
<v Speaker 2>the place to work. So I think you build social

0:45:19.880 --> 0:45:25.640
<v Speaker 2>capital over time, and that capital may have a payoff

0:45:25.920 --> 0:45:29.759
<v Speaker 2>in a moment where you're finding life difficult or where

0:45:29.800 --> 0:45:31.000
<v Speaker 2>your job is up for grabs.

0:45:31.200 --> 0:45:34.800
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, where someone might be challenging your position. That's exactly

0:45:34.840 --> 0:45:36.520
<v Speaker 1>as a result of an error of the whole bank.

0:45:37.080 --> 0:45:39.839
<v Speaker 1>And that is because there's no one, very rare as

0:45:39.960 --> 0:45:43.320
<v Speaker 1>an error in a big organization responsibility to one person.

0:45:43.600 --> 0:45:47.319
<v Speaker 1>It's usually the responsibility of many. But because you're you're

0:45:47.320 --> 0:45:48.760
<v Speaker 1>at the top of the tree, you take the blame

0:45:48.760 --> 0:45:48.960
<v Speaker 1>for it.

0:45:49.120 --> 0:45:49.640
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, of course.

0:45:49.680 --> 0:45:51.800
<v Speaker 1>And you know, I think we said a lot in banking,

0:45:51.920 --> 0:45:52.520
<v Speaker 1>and I think.

0:45:52.360 --> 0:45:55.960
<v Speaker 2>There's a disproportionate amount of pressure on CEOs these days.

0:45:56.000 --> 0:45:59.279
<v Speaker 2>I think there you know, the burnout, liability and scrutiny

0:45:59.560 --> 0:46:01.839
<v Speaker 2>is is at a point where it's never been before.

0:46:01.840 --> 0:46:03.640
<v Speaker 2>I wrote an article about this for the fin Review

0:46:03.719 --> 0:46:07.760
<v Speaker 2>last week. You know, the Global CEO Index has shown

0:46:07.800 --> 0:46:11.200
<v Speaker 2>that there's a higher turnover of CEOs because of burnout,

0:46:11.360 --> 0:46:14.840
<v Speaker 2>liability and scrutiny and increased attention. And that's not just

0:46:14.960 --> 0:46:17.560
<v Speaker 2>damaging to them, it's damaging to emerging leaders who are

0:46:17.600 --> 0:46:20.000
<v Speaker 2>looking at their boss thinking, you know what that does?

0:46:20.000 --> 0:46:23.040
<v Speaker 2>It it's not worth it. Maybe there's another way, Maybe

0:46:23.040 --> 0:46:26.440
<v Speaker 2>there's an adjacent pathway here, And I'm going to trade

0:46:26.600 --> 0:46:32.080
<v Speaker 2>power and prestige for peace for peace and privacy right,

0:46:32.120 --> 0:46:34.760
<v Speaker 2>and who wouldn't want to do that in today's world.

0:46:34.960 --> 0:46:37.520
<v Speaker 2>But that's a pretty dangerous precedent to set when you

0:46:37.600 --> 0:46:40.759
<v Speaker 2>look at the kind of you know, the lower is

0:46:40.800 --> 0:46:44.839
<v Speaker 2>the barrier to entry for leadership over time. So I

0:46:44.880 --> 0:46:47.080
<v Speaker 2>think that we look at CEOs and we do expect

0:46:47.080 --> 0:46:49.440
<v Speaker 2>them to be superhuman because they're not only running these

0:46:49.560 --> 0:46:53.480
<v Speaker 2>enormous organizations, they're running families. They're expected to be culture shapers,

0:46:53.520 --> 0:46:56.960
<v Speaker 2>they're expected to be community leaders. So we do expect

0:46:57.040 --> 0:47:01.560
<v Speaker 2>a lot. Our expectations are disproper austuately high of a CEO,

0:47:02.280 --> 0:47:04.759
<v Speaker 2>so I think we need to be careful about that.

0:47:05.560 --> 0:47:07.920
<v Speaker 2>But when it comes to the basic role of a CEO,

0:47:08.480 --> 0:47:11.840
<v Speaker 2>it's not just about growing the business and keeping shareholders happy.

0:47:12.160 --> 0:47:16.040
<v Speaker 2>I think it's also about communicating change where necessary. So

0:47:16.520 --> 0:47:19.399
<v Speaker 2>I think that's I think communication leadership is a fairly

0:47:19.440 --> 0:47:22.160
<v Speaker 2>basic basic ask, but we don't see enough of it.

0:47:22.400 --> 0:47:25.560
<v Speaker 1>And that issue whereby people who are looking around thinking this,

0:47:26.560 --> 0:47:28.200
<v Speaker 1>why would I do this? Because of the things you

0:47:28.239 --> 0:47:30.439
<v Speaker 1>just mentioned, burnout, et cetera. Do you think that could

0:47:30.440 --> 0:47:33.400
<v Speaker 1>be a reason why some people take the view that

0:47:33.400 --> 0:47:35.359
<v Speaker 1>we at the quality of our politicians today are less

0:47:35.360 --> 0:47:38.080
<v Speaker 1>than they used to be and because it's lower the bar.

0:47:38.480 --> 0:47:41.960
<v Speaker 2>Well, this would you be a politician? Why not?

0:47:43.920 --> 0:47:45.360
<v Speaker 1>For the matter of drama you have to put up

0:47:45.400 --> 0:47:46.879
<v Speaker 1>with that, don't pay you enough?

0:47:46.920 --> 0:47:49.040
<v Speaker 2>When you can have peace and privacy, why would you

0:47:49.040 --> 0:47:53.200
<v Speaker 2>go for the profile and prestige. That's the problem, because

0:47:53.200 --> 0:47:57.359
<v Speaker 2>people like you, who should be running for office can

0:47:57.440 --> 0:48:01.600
<v Speaker 2>afford not to. You choose to have influences.

0:48:01.640 --> 0:48:03.600
<v Speaker 1>But how do we correct that? Then? How do you

0:48:03.280 --> 0:48:05.799
<v Speaker 1>how how would you suggest that we're a nation we

0:48:05.840 --> 0:48:08.600
<v Speaker 1>start to try and correct that. Should we pull back

0:48:08.600 --> 0:48:12.400
<v Speaker 1>a little bit from laying so much scrutiny on them?

0:48:13.120 --> 0:48:13.440
<v Speaker 1>What's this?

0:48:13.680 --> 0:48:16.839
<v Speaker 2>I don't know. I think it's really a complicated question

0:48:16.880 --> 0:48:23.680
<v Speaker 2>because the whole system is designed. I mean, it's public sector,

0:48:23.719 --> 0:48:25.880
<v Speaker 2>it's not private sector, right, There's no money in it,

0:48:25.920 --> 0:48:29.920
<v Speaker 2>There's no It's a very difficult it's a very difficult

0:48:30.640 --> 0:48:34.160
<v Speaker 2>and complicated game to play, and for most of us,

0:48:34.200 --> 0:48:37.200
<v Speaker 2>by the time we are in our forties, fifties, sixties,

0:48:37.200 --> 0:48:40.480
<v Speaker 2>and when we're most qualified to play that game, we

0:48:40.520 --> 0:48:43.799
<v Speaker 2>don't necessarily have the energy to So I'm not I

0:48:43.840 --> 0:48:45.359
<v Speaker 2>don't have the answer to that. I don't know if

0:48:45.400 --> 0:48:47.080
<v Speaker 2>many people do. I'd love to hear it.

0:48:47.320 --> 0:48:49.839
<v Speaker 1>So what right? I love? So I could quickly talk

0:48:49.840 --> 0:48:53.440
<v Speaker 1>about your book. So your book called Adapts a mastering

0:48:53.520 --> 0:48:56.279
<v Speaker 1>Change in four steps? Can you do? I have to

0:48:56.280 --> 0:48:58.160
<v Speaker 1>read the whole book to get the four steps.

0:48:58.200 --> 0:49:03.120
<v Speaker 2>You don't know this is. This is about adaptability in

0:49:03.160 --> 0:49:07.080
<v Speaker 2>its purest form, being about anticipating and influencing change and

0:49:07.160 --> 0:49:10.520
<v Speaker 2>not reacting and responding to change so we get ahead

0:49:10.520 --> 0:49:13.080
<v Speaker 2>of it. This is for anyone who feels who doesn't

0:49:13.080 --> 0:49:15.759
<v Speaker 2>want to feel like they're always constantly playing catch up

0:49:15.800 --> 0:49:20.680
<v Speaker 2>to change. And so four steps engaged with signals, accept

0:49:20.680 --> 0:49:25.080
<v Speaker 2>what's changing, activate your optimism for what's next, and release

0:49:25.880 --> 0:49:28.520
<v Speaker 2>what is no longer fit for purpose for where you're headed.

0:49:29.040 --> 0:49:29.919
<v Speaker 1>So let go of it.

0:49:30.000 --> 0:49:30.560
<v Speaker 2>Let go of it.

0:49:30.880 --> 0:49:34.840
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so just just on the first part that is

0:49:34.880 --> 0:49:38.719
<v Speaker 1>sort of looking out for the signs. That's rights signals. Yeah,

0:49:39.000 --> 0:49:42.359
<v Speaker 1>you call it signals yep. So that sort of by

0:49:42.400 --> 0:49:47.880
<v Speaker 1>definition requires people to be constantly vigilant and aware.

0:49:49.040 --> 0:49:52.200
<v Speaker 2>I think we can be overly vigilant. My advice is

0:49:52.280 --> 0:49:54.520
<v Speaker 2>choose a couple of things to pay attention to, but

0:49:54.560 --> 0:49:57.319
<v Speaker 2>also don't ignore that gut feeling because we all have

0:49:57.480 --> 0:50:01.520
<v Speaker 2>ignored and there's probably a signal of change today that

0:50:01.600 --> 0:50:04.400
<v Speaker 2>we're all ignoring. So I'd urge you, I'd provoke you

0:50:04.440 --> 0:50:07.000
<v Speaker 2>to think what is that. It might be personal, it

0:50:07.080 --> 0:50:10.000
<v Speaker 2>might be social, it might be in the workplace. Don't

0:50:10.040 --> 0:50:12.719
<v Speaker 2>ignore that signal of change because the closer it gets

0:50:12.719 --> 0:50:15.399
<v Speaker 2>to you, the less options you'll have to respond to it.

0:50:16.280 --> 0:50:18.080
<v Speaker 2>So if you see a signal, like when I saw

0:50:18.120 --> 0:50:20.120
<v Speaker 2>a signal in two thousand and eight about the future

0:50:20.120 --> 0:50:23.200
<v Speaker 2>of journalism, I made an active decision to get five

0:50:23.280 --> 0:50:25.680
<v Speaker 2>to eight years ahead of my colleagues. So always pay

0:50:25.719 --> 0:50:29.920
<v Speaker 2>attention to those small changes that you think I just

0:50:29.920 --> 0:50:30.960
<v Speaker 2>shouldn't be ignoring that.

0:50:31.400 --> 0:50:33.400
<v Speaker 1>Do you think there's a I have to finish off

0:50:33.440 --> 0:50:36.200
<v Speaker 1>on this one, but I think it's an important question.

0:50:36.400 --> 0:50:40.239
<v Speaker 1>Do you think there's a danger that the way we

0:50:40.480 --> 0:50:42.600
<v Speaker 1>live our lives, we get so caught up in our

0:50:42.640 --> 0:50:45.239
<v Speaker 1>business from day to day, whatever happens to be with

0:50:45.280 --> 0:50:47.360
<v Speaker 1>your employee or running a business doesn't really matter. Or

0:50:47.360 --> 0:50:49.520
<v Speaker 1>in government, we get so caught up with what we're

0:50:49.560 --> 0:50:51.839
<v Speaker 1>doing day to day, and we convince themselves, wow, I'm

0:50:51.840 --> 0:50:54.160
<v Speaker 1>really busy. I'm going to get up really early and

0:50:54.280 --> 0:50:55.799
<v Speaker 1>to start on my stuff, and I'm going to get

0:50:55.800 --> 0:50:57.919
<v Speaker 1>to the gym, and I've got to see the kids,

0:50:57.920 --> 0:50:59.719
<v Speaker 1>and I've got to bubba all the stuff I've got

0:50:59.760 --> 0:51:02.960
<v Speaker 1>to do. I'm so damn busy that I know in

0:51:02.960 --> 0:51:06.480
<v Speaker 1>the back of my mind there's a something that's bothering me,

0:51:08.280 --> 0:51:11.920
<v Speaker 1>a signal, but I sort of either tend to ignore it,

0:51:13.000 --> 0:51:17.160
<v Speaker 1>or I ignore it, or alternatively, I just completely forget

0:51:17.200 --> 0:51:18.960
<v Speaker 1>about it altogether because I get caught up on what

0:51:18.960 --> 0:51:22.840
<v Speaker 1>I'm doing data distracted and what tools the technique would

0:51:22.840 --> 0:51:26.600
<v Speaker 1>you suggest we use to get around that that failure.

0:51:27.160 --> 0:51:30.200
<v Speaker 2>So get a blank piece of paper, Just draw a

0:51:30.239 --> 0:51:32.480
<v Speaker 2>line down the middle and eighty twenty. Just do an

0:51:32.480 --> 0:51:34.919
<v Speaker 2>eighty twenty principle. So for eighty percent of my day,

0:51:35.280 --> 0:51:38.040
<v Speaker 2>I'm going to spend triaging all the normal stuff right

0:51:38.080 --> 0:51:38.399
<v Speaker 2>to get.

0:51:38.280 --> 0:51:39.839
<v Speaker 1>Through the day, get through my crab yep.

0:51:39.960 --> 0:51:43.000
<v Speaker 2>But I'm going to spend even just the twenty percent

0:51:43.000 --> 0:51:46.279
<v Speaker 2>of my day, or even just twenty minutes, exploring what

0:51:46.400 --> 0:51:49.000
<v Speaker 2>could be about to disrupt me, Like how do I

0:51:49.200 --> 0:51:51.960
<v Speaker 2>how can I take a step towards figuring out what

0:51:52.000 --> 0:51:54.480
<v Speaker 2>that signal is going to mean for me in a

0:51:54.520 --> 0:51:57.880
<v Speaker 2>month's time, in a year's time. So and that explore

0:51:57.960 --> 0:52:00.799
<v Speaker 2>versus exploit. So you don't free age of the day,

0:52:00.880 --> 0:52:03.400
<v Speaker 2>but always give yourself a few minutes to reflect on

0:52:04.400 --> 0:52:07.160
<v Speaker 2>confronting that signal of change, because what you don't want

0:52:07.280 --> 0:52:10.279
<v Speaker 2>is for that signal of change to, you know, to

0:52:10.320 --> 0:52:12.000
<v Speaker 2>be up close where you've got no.

0:52:12.040 --> 0:52:14.799
<v Speaker 1>Options, because then you're panic. Then you panic, and then

0:52:14.840 --> 0:52:15.920
<v Speaker 1>you made the worst decisions.

0:52:16.120 --> 0:52:16.520
<v Speaker 2>So is it.

0:52:19.440 --> 0:52:23.920
<v Speaker 1>Sort of like health checking? Can we do it ourselves?

0:52:24.320 --> 0:52:25.799
<v Speaker 1>If I've got a fever, I think I'll hang on

0:52:25.800 --> 0:52:28.640
<v Speaker 1>a bit of be careful, I got sore throat, maybe

0:52:28.640 --> 0:52:30.920
<v Speaker 1>I've got something wrong. But you know a lot of

0:52:30.920 --> 0:52:33.120
<v Speaker 1>people don't do a bit on my case. I don't

0:52:33.120 --> 0:52:35.680
<v Speaker 1>ignore it. Is it like health checking, of course for

0:52:35.719 --> 0:52:37.760
<v Speaker 1>that type of thing, that's right. Yeah, it's pretty simple.

0:52:37.840 --> 0:52:40.480
<v Speaker 2>It's like a health check for life, right, And it

0:52:40.480 --> 0:52:42.480
<v Speaker 2>could be in the workplace where you feel like, oh,

0:52:42.760 --> 0:52:44.120
<v Speaker 2>you know, a friend of mine called me last week

0:52:44.120 --> 0:52:46.600
<v Speaker 2>and said, I've just lost my job, but I'm really shocked.

0:52:46.600 --> 0:52:48.080
<v Speaker 2>And I said, well, I'm not shocked because for the

0:52:48.120 --> 0:52:51.839
<v Speaker 2>last twelve months you've called me every week and said

0:52:52.080 --> 0:52:54.759
<v Speaker 2>how much your boss hates you. So I would have

0:52:54.800 --> 0:52:56.799
<v Speaker 2>picked that as a signal of change a year ago

0:52:56.880 --> 0:52:59.960
<v Speaker 2>and started, you know, tidying up my CV and look

0:53:00.120 --> 0:53:03.560
<v Speaker 2>for another gig. So pay attention to what those signals are,

0:53:03.560 --> 0:53:06.879
<v Speaker 2>because what you want is options. You know what I've

0:53:06.920 --> 0:53:10.839
<v Speaker 2>wanted through my life is options. And you know, I've

0:53:11.200 --> 0:53:13.200
<v Speaker 2>had amazing role models from when I was quite young,

0:53:13.239 --> 0:53:17.480
<v Speaker 2>including my dad, that demonstrated that your ability to adapt

0:53:17.520 --> 0:53:20.840
<v Speaker 2>to change effectively gives you options. And that's what I

0:53:20.880 --> 0:53:22.280
<v Speaker 2>think we all want in life.

0:53:23.160 --> 0:53:25.640
<v Speaker 1>Why do you think you were? I mean, you mentioned

0:53:25.640 --> 0:53:26.920
<v Speaker 1>your father, but why do you think you were so

0:53:27.800 --> 0:53:30.400
<v Speaker 1>I don't want to over yeah, dramatize it, but vigilant

0:53:32.120 --> 0:53:34.560
<v Speaker 1>back when before you probably even really thought this stuff

0:53:34.600 --> 0:53:36.279
<v Speaker 1>through which you're talking about now, Like going back to

0:53:36.320 --> 0:53:39.239
<v Speaker 1>when you were a journalists at Washington. Why do you

0:53:39.280 --> 0:53:41.759
<v Speaker 1>think you were so vigilant at such a young age.

0:53:42.000 --> 0:53:43.799
<v Speaker 2>Because when I was twelve years old, I was in

0:53:44.000 --> 0:53:47.440
<v Speaker 2>Assessina two ten, single engine my dad was piloting, succeeded

0:53:47.440 --> 0:53:49.759
<v Speaker 2>with my two sisters. Dad was flying the three of

0:53:49.840 --> 0:53:51.960
<v Speaker 2>us between Maury and the Gold Coast and we had

0:53:51.960 --> 0:53:55.960
<v Speaker 2>engine failure at nine thousand feet And what I saw

0:53:56.040 --> 0:54:02.960
<v Speaker 2>happen in those moments convinced me that having high adaptability

0:54:03.120 --> 0:54:07.160
<v Speaker 2>would always give me options. So we lost power.

0:54:08.640 --> 0:54:09.800
<v Speaker 1>What in other words, you're gliding.

0:54:10.160 --> 0:54:13.000
<v Speaker 2>We glided for nine thousand feet. And it wasn't IQ

0:54:13.320 --> 0:54:16.840
<v Speaker 2>or EQ that helped Dad land that plane in one piece.

0:54:16.840 --> 0:54:19.160
<v Speaker 2>It was his AQ. It was his adaptability quotionent, so

0:54:19.760 --> 0:54:22.120
<v Speaker 2>the ability to apply new thinking to a new problem.

0:54:22.800 --> 0:54:26.719
<v Speaker 2>And he was so calm and composed in those in

0:54:26.760 --> 0:54:29.080
<v Speaker 2>those moments that when by the time we got on

0:54:29.120 --> 0:54:31.759
<v Speaker 2>the ground, I didn't think about it then, but many

0:54:31.800 --> 0:54:34.120
<v Speaker 2>years later I started to think, when did I first

0:54:34.160 --> 0:54:37.040
<v Speaker 2>see the power of adaptability, the power of an adaptive

0:54:37.080 --> 0:54:38.840
<v Speaker 2>mindset in action? And that was it. I would have

0:54:38.880 --> 0:54:42.480
<v Speaker 2>been twelve years old, and it was an incredible lesson

0:54:42.719 --> 0:54:47.239
<v Speaker 2>in what if you commit to having a highly adaptable mindset,

0:54:47.400 --> 0:54:50.960
<v Speaker 2>you will always have options. And that's what that's what

0:54:51.000 --> 0:54:54.720
<v Speaker 2>I wanted for myself, and so I really was highly

0:54:54.760 --> 0:54:57.080
<v Speaker 2>engaged in what those signals have changed looked like for

0:54:57.160 --> 0:55:00.319
<v Speaker 2>me from quite a young age, because you know, Dad

0:55:00.320 --> 0:55:03.000
<v Speaker 2>would throw a map over the dining room table before

0:55:03.040 --> 0:55:04.880
<v Speaker 2>school holidays and say where do you want to?

0:55:04.920 --> 0:55:06.320
<v Speaker 1>Go? Right?

0:55:06.440 --> 0:55:09.440
<v Speaker 2>So like your dad in the Cessna, Dad rang and

0:55:09.480 --> 0:55:11.960
<v Speaker 2>he ran a trucking haulage business, right, so he had

0:55:12.200 --> 0:55:14.320
<v Speaker 2>a light plan for work, as most people did around

0:55:14.320 --> 0:55:17.480
<v Speaker 2>Western Queensland in the eighties, and when he threw a

0:55:17.480 --> 0:55:20.480
<v Speaker 2>map over the table, you know, that wasn't just about

0:55:20.480 --> 0:55:24.279
<v Speaker 2>planning holidays. In hindsight, for me, that was about, like,

0:55:24.600 --> 0:55:28.200
<v Speaker 2>what a remarkable invitation to imagine your own future, to

0:55:28.280 --> 0:55:31.120
<v Speaker 2>have an active to be an active player in the

0:55:31.160 --> 0:55:34.120
<v Speaker 2>way life was going to play out for you. So

0:55:34.200 --> 0:55:37.799
<v Speaker 2>I always engage. I was always engaged in change and

0:55:37.920 --> 0:55:42.000
<v Speaker 2>always understood the role of imagination and the kind of

0:55:42.000 --> 0:55:44.439
<v Speaker 2>life that I wanted to lead. And I just wasn't

0:55:44.480 --> 0:55:49.600
<v Speaker 2>prepared to kind of roll along with the standard narrative.

0:55:49.680 --> 0:55:54.080
<v Speaker 2>And I had big dreams and I was encouraged from

0:55:54.080 --> 0:55:56.399
<v Speaker 2>a very young age to really go after them.

0:55:57.600 --> 0:56:00.200
<v Speaker 1>Like you didn't. I mean, as opposed to being post

0:56:00.200 --> 0:56:05.000
<v Speaker 1>traumatic stress syndrome, whatever the words. You actually had an

0:56:05.040 --> 0:56:09.680
<v Speaker 1>embedded advantage as a result of what you experienced and

0:56:09.680 --> 0:56:13.120
<v Speaker 1>what you saw your dad do. And obviously, luckily it

0:56:13.160 --> 0:56:17.320
<v Speaker 1>was a good outcome allow you to to remain embedded

0:56:17.320 --> 0:56:20.000
<v Speaker 1>in your mind. And well, what's interesting is that you've

0:56:20.040 --> 0:56:21.680
<v Speaker 1>done something about it too, Like you've actually put it

0:56:21.719 --> 0:56:24.560
<v Speaker 1>into action. You've turned that asset into action, that embedded

0:56:26.000 --> 0:56:28.799
<v Speaker 1>experience into action in your own life. I think many

0:56:28.840 --> 0:56:32.880
<v Speaker 1>people also, Andrey, they tend to I don't know what

0:56:32.920 --> 0:56:35.719
<v Speaker 1>it is people sort of forget in terms of their

0:56:35.719 --> 0:56:38.720
<v Speaker 1>career that a career is a really important part of life,

0:56:38.719 --> 0:56:40.520
<v Speaker 1>Like it's I don't mean you have to have a career,

0:56:40.560 --> 0:56:42.840
<v Speaker 1>but whatever you're doing, it's an important part of life,

0:56:43.080 --> 0:56:46.640
<v Speaker 1>whatever you're doing. And we tend to think we focus

0:56:46.680 --> 0:56:49.200
<v Speaker 1>on what we're going to do on the weekend, like

0:56:49.400 --> 0:56:51.000
<v Speaker 1>where we're going to go up for dinner, which is

0:56:51.040 --> 0:56:53.680
<v Speaker 1>also important, who we're going to see, but we forget

0:56:53.680 --> 0:56:57.239
<v Speaker 1>about this other stuff that underpins all that. And you're right,

0:56:57.280 --> 0:56:58.320
<v Speaker 1>we don't see the signals.

0:56:58.360 --> 0:57:01.640
<v Speaker 2>Well. Learning, I mean learning and an agency is part

0:57:01.680 --> 0:57:04.359
<v Speaker 2>of the DNA of being highly adaptable. I mean I'm

0:57:04.440 --> 0:57:07.880
<v Speaker 2>obsessed with learning. I always have been, because learning is

0:57:07.920 --> 0:57:10.239
<v Speaker 2>not just about gaining knowledge. Every time we learn something new,

0:57:10.320 --> 0:57:13.960
<v Speaker 2>we uncover something about ourselves. So it's a positive feedback

0:57:14.000 --> 0:57:17.640
<v Speaker 2>loop that is literally infinite. And you know, I think

0:57:17.760 --> 0:57:20.040
<v Speaker 2>learning is a portal. And if we're not learning, we're

0:57:20.040 --> 0:57:20.600
<v Speaker 2>not adapting.

0:57:20.840 --> 0:57:24.080
<v Speaker 1>Have We've got so many resources today to learn, podcasts

0:57:24.800 --> 0:57:27.440
<v Speaker 1>everywhere and there's your book Adapt And that's a good

0:57:27.440 --> 0:57:30.080
<v Speaker 1>way to end today through Look, thanks so much. Actually

0:57:30.080 --> 0:57:33.520
<v Speaker 1>that was fascinating mastering change of four steps. So I

0:57:34.040 --> 0:57:38.480
<v Speaker 1>quite like the having agency over your future that concept.

0:57:39.080 --> 0:57:41.040
<v Speaker 1>I think that's a really important concept. Most people don't

0:57:41.040 --> 0:57:43.640
<v Speaker 1>think about that that I know of, and we're too

0:57:43.680 --> 0:57:45.400
<v Speaker 1>interested in what we're doing today and what we did

0:57:45.520 --> 0:57:47.640
<v Speaker 1>last week and what didn't go right for us last week,

0:57:47.680 --> 0:57:50.600
<v Speaker 1>and you know how awful someone was towards me as

0:57:50.600 --> 0:57:52.320
<v Speaker 1>opposed to or hang on, that's a signal that I

0:57:52.360 --> 0:57:53.880
<v Speaker 1>should do something for my future.

0:57:53.640 --> 0:57:57.200
<v Speaker 2>Exactly, have some agency, build personal agency in whatever way

0:57:57.280 --> 0:58:00.440
<v Speaker 2>works for you. But I think that is that's a

0:58:00.480 --> 0:58:01.920
<v Speaker 2>straight line towards fulfillment.

0:58:02.800 --> 0:58:04.640
<v Speaker 1>Andrew Clark, thanks so much, Thanks much,