1 00:00:00,360 --> 00:00:03,440 Speaker 1: We'd like to acknowledge the traditional custodians of the land 2 00:00:03,520 --> 00:00:06,840 Speaker 1: on which this podcast was produced, the Galligall people of 3 00:00:06,920 --> 00:00:10,479 Speaker 1: the orination. We pay our respects to Elda's past and present. 4 00:00:12,680 --> 00:00:16,560 Speaker 2: It's twenty twenty two and we're lakeside in remote Tasmania. 5 00:00:17,680 --> 00:00:20,920 Speaker 2: Gina Chick is lying by the fire. She's just lit. 6 00:00:21,720 --> 00:00:24,520 Speaker 2: She's one of ten contestants out here for the first 7 00:00:24,600 --> 00:00:29,880 Speaker 2: Australian version of reality TV show Alone. The goal is 8 00:00:29,920 --> 00:00:32,720 Speaker 2: to survive and stay out here as long as possible. 9 00:00:33,200 --> 00:00:37,640 Speaker 2: This is no easy feat. The air is ice cold, 10 00:00:37,720 --> 00:00:42,000 Speaker 2: the ground is soaking wet. Gina's been here for months 11 00:00:42,720 --> 00:00:46,839 Speaker 2: and she could happily stay out here forever, but this 12 00:00:47,040 --> 00:00:52,640 Speaker 2: night is tough. It's her late daughter's birthday. Blaze was 13 00:00:52,760 --> 00:00:56,240 Speaker 2: just three years old when she lost her battle with cancer. 14 00:00:57,360 --> 00:01:05,679 Speaker 2: Gina breaks down, crying and calling out for her baby girl. 15 00:01:12,600 --> 00:01:15,440 Speaker 2: It's a scene that will break the hearts of millions 16 00:01:15,440 --> 00:01:23,240 Speaker 2: watching I'm at Middleton and this is Headgame today. What 17 00:01:23,440 --> 00:01:27,840 Speaker 2: audiences didn't get to see and how Gina Chick is 18 00:01:27,920 --> 00:01:35,200 Speaker 2: scaling an endless wall of grief. Gina Chick, I am 19 00:01:35,280 --> 00:01:38,560 Speaker 2: super excited to speak with you because talk about the 20 00:01:38,600 --> 00:01:44,880 Speaker 2: epitome of free spirit of you know, psychological resilience, physical fortitude, 21 00:01:45,400 --> 00:01:48,160 Speaker 2: you possess all of that. Take me back to your 22 00:01:48,280 --> 00:01:51,800 Speaker 2: childhood and who Gina Chick is and how she grew 23 00:01:51,920 --> 00:01:54,760 Speaker 2: up and because what fascinates me about your story is 24 00:01:55,160 --> 00:01:59,200 Speaker 2: you've always been this free spirited individual that's sort of 25 00:01:59,200 --> 00:02:02,360 Speaker 2: a you know, been super connected with mother Nature, been 26 00:02:02,480 --> 00:02:06,280 Speaker 2: super grounded with the planet and with yourself. But take 27 00:02:06,320 --> 00:02:10,000 Speaker 2: me back to your childhood and your upbringing and what 28 00:02:10,680 --> 00:02:12,160 Speaker 2: life was like as a child. 29 00:02:13,600 --> 00:02:15,760 Speaker 3: Well, first of all, thank you so much for that 30 00:02:16,320 --> 00:02:21,960 Speaker 3: wonderful introduction. Yeah, and you're right, I have always been 31 00:02:22,240 --> 00:02:25,480 Speaker 3: what you would call a free spirit. Although it's always 32 00:02:25,520 --> 00:02:27,120 Speaker 3: the way when you're a kid, isn't it that you 33 00:02:27,160 --> 00:02:29,520 Speaker 3: don't know any different. It's just like, well, that's just 34 00:02:29,600 --> 00:02:32,840 Speaker 3: the way things are. And for me, I grew up 35 00:02:32,880 --> 00:02:38,200 Speaker 3: in a family that really was quite unconventional. We spent 36 00:02:38,320 --> 00:02:41,840 Speaker 3: a lot of time outdoors. My parents are both teachers, 37 00:02:42,120 --> 00:02:44,239 Speaker 3: and so that just meant we had all of our 38 00:02:44,280 --> 00:02:47,960 Speaker 3: weekends and our school holidays together, and they didn't have 39 00:02:48,040 --> 00:02:51,520 Speaker 3: much money, so we would go on epic hikes and 40 00:02:51,639 --> 00:02:56,680 Speaker 3: bushwalks and camping and adventures with you know, my dad 41 00:02:56,760 --> 00:02:59,840 Speaker 3: would get a daggy little boat with they could be 42 00:03:00,200 --> 00:03:02,399 Speaker 3: go put put, but we just go out on adventures 43 00:03:02,400 --> 00:03:05,120 Speaker 3: in it. Or he'd make water skis that were so 44 00:03:05,160 --> 00:03:07,000 Speaker 3: heavy you'd had to like drag them down to the 45 00:03:07,000 --> 00:03:08,960 Speaker 3: beach and then try and pull us up on this 46 00:03:09,080 --> 00:03:10,000 Speaker 3: crazy little boat. 47 00:03:10,400 --> 00:03:12,959 Speaker 2: Or you'd have to survive by trying not to drown. 48 00:03:14,639 --> 00:03:17,600 Speaker 3: Well, actually, yeah, I mean there kind of was a 49 00:03:17,639 --> 00:03:22,919 Speaker 3: bit of that in my family. There was absolutely this attitude, 50 00:03:23,000 --> 00:03:25,840 Speaker 3: I think because my father had three daughters and he 51 00:03:26,000 --> 00:03:28,640 Speaker 3: just grew us up like boys. We never had this 52 00:03:28,760 --> 00:03:31,240 Speaker 3: idea of boys can do this or girls can do that. 53 00:03:31,560 --> 00:03:34,400 Speaker 3: We just had adventures pretty much NonStop, and some of 54 00:03:34,400 --> 00:03:36,040 Speaker 3: them were a little hair raising, and some of them 55 00:03:36,080 --> 00:03:40,840 Speaker 3: are quite dangerous. And the attitude that I ended up 56 00:03:40,880 --> 00:03:43,480 Speaker 3: with is like, there's no bones broken, are there Nope? 57 00:03:43,680 --> 00:03:45,760 Speaker 3: And if ill out broken, are they sticking out? Okay? No, 58 00:03:45,920 --> 00:03:49,920 Speaker 3: you can probably walk on that ben good to go. Yeah. 59 00:03:50,360 --> 00:03:55,880 Speaker 3: And I think also I've always had this, I guess 60 00:03:55,920 --> 00:04:00,400 Speaker 3: resilience when it comes to physical discomfort, and I think 61 00:04:00,400 --> 00:04:03,800 Speaker 3: I got born with that. So whenever I would be 62 00:04:03,920 --> 00:04:08,160 Speaker 3: cold or hungry or things would just go a bit 63 00:04:08,200 --> 00:04:11,800 Speaker 3: pair shaped on an adventure. And I think that probably 64 00:04:11,840 --> 00:04:13,400 Speaker 3: came also from my dad. 65 00:04:13,640 --> 00:04:15,520 Speaker 2: I know what you mean, because you sort of feel 66 00:04:15,560 --> 00:04:17,520 Speaker 2: like that's where the journey starts. Well, that's where the 67 00:04:17,600 --> 00:04:21,279 Speaker 2: challenge starts. Is like, well, I'm tired, I'm hungry, I'm suffering. Well, 68 00:04:21,279 --> 00:04:24,440 Speaker 2: guess what I'm learning about myself. This is actually really 69 00:04:24,520 --> 00:04:26,839 Speaker 2: exciting and I'm going to push myself even further. 70 00:04:27,400 --> 00:04:29,880 Speaker 3: Also, I think that you know, if you look back 71 00:04:29,920 --> 00:04:33,159 Speaker 3: at your life, you don't really remember the bits where 72 00:04:33,160 --> 00:04:37,279 Speaker 3: you're comfortable. You remember the things where you're uncomfortable, and 73 00:04:37,360 --> 00:04:40,320 Speaker 3: at the time it's kind of miserable and horrible. But 74 00:04:40,400 --> 00:04:42,719 Speaker 3: if you have one of those adventures with friends where 75 00:04:42,720 --> 00:04:45,280 Speaker 3: you're all just gutting it through, you're kind of arguing, 76 00:04:45,360 --> 00:04:48,440 Speaker 3: and somehow you get through, and then on the other side, 77 00:04:48,480 --> 00:04:52,719 Speaker 3: you've made it because the story that is an actual 78 00:04:53,000 --> 00:04:55,640 Speaker 3: like a marker for your friendship, for your life. It 79 00:04:55,680 --> 00:04:57,360 Speaker 3: becomes almost like a rite of passage. 80 00:04:57,520 --> 00:05:00,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, they're the memories, right, yeah, Yeah, And. 81 00:05:01,120 --> 00:05:04,920 Speaker 3: It's like that was the adventure. And humans don't grow 82 00:05:04,960 --> 00:05:05,880 Speaker 3: when we're comfortable. 83 00:05:06,400 --> 00:05:09,919 Speaker 2: There's no growthing comfort. I always say, yeah, And. 84 00:05:10,240 --> 00:05:12,880 Speaker 3: To me, that comes from the wisdom in our hunt 85 00:05:12,920 --> 00:05:15,479 Speaker 3: to gather at DNA because for hunter gatherers it's like 86 00:05:15,520 --> 00:05:18,120 Speaker 3: you don't want to waste the calorie. So things are comfy, 87 00:05:18,640 --> 00:05:20,599 Speaker 3: is you know, you sit back and go, okay, I'm 88 00:05:20,600 --> 00:05:24,400 Speaker 3: cruising now. And it just means that we're actually designed 89 00:05:24,480 --> 00:05:28,200 Speaker 3: not to grow when we're comfortable. We grow when we're uncomfortable. 90 00:05:28,240 --> 00:05:30,920 Speaker 3: But we live in a culture that papologizes discomfort. 91 00:05:31,000 --> 00:05:32,680 Speaker 2: I knew I was going to get on with you, Gina. 92 00:05:32,839 --> 00:05:34,240 Speaker 2: I knew I was going to get on with you. 93 00:05:34,400 --> 00:05:37,120 Speaker 2: I love you already. I love you already. I want 94 00:05:37,160 --> 00:05:39,120 Speaker 2: to jump down the screen and then sit by you 95 00:05:39,160 --> 00:05:44,080 Speaker 2: and have this conversation, but unfortunately I can't. But it's amazing. 96 00:05:44,200 --> 00:05:47,000 Speaker 2: It's amazing. So you went throughout your whole childhood like this, 97 00:05:47,640 --> 00:05:51,680 Speaker 2: and your siblings did they go along this journey with you? 98 00:05:52,200 --> 00:05:56,400 Speaker 3: Absolutely? We were and are a very tight family unit. 99 00:05:56,920 --> 00:06:00,960 Speaker 3: And that meant because again, we didn't really have much choice. 100 00:06:01,080 --> 00:06:03,880 Speaker 3: It was like, all right, well we're going out this weekend. 101 00:06:04,000 --> 00:06:05,880 Speaker 3: There wasn't really the option of like, actually I'm going 102 00:06:05,960 --> 00:06:08,920 Speaker 3: to stay at home. No, everybody, we're all going out 103 00:06:08,960 --> 00:06:13,159 Speaker 3: together and so and because we would do things like 104 00:06:13,320 --> 00:06:16,359 Speaker 3: you remember those old tents, the a frame tents before 105 00:06:16,360 --> 00:06:19,920 Speaker 3: we have the new be bloody Yeah, absolutely, idea old 106 00:06:19,960 --> 00:06:22,440 Speaker 3: a frame. You put the poles in and then the 107 00:06:22,440 --> 00:06:25,320 Speaker 3: first wind that comes along it's proper bends all the 108 00:06:25,360 --> 00:06:27,400 Speaker 3: poles and you end up with the tent landing on 109 00:06:27,440 --> 00:06:27,919 Speaker 3: top of you. 110 00:06:28,279 --> 00:06:30,680 Speaker 2: That was, Oh, you've got the poles mixed up. They're 111 00:06:30,680 --> 00:06:33,159 Speaker 2: in the wrong in the wrong side of the tent. 112 00:06:33,800 --> 00:06:35,680 Speaker 2: The tent sort of looks like a tent and that's 113 00:06:35,720 --> 00:06:38,920 Speaker 2: good enough. Where made do Let's let's nail it down 114 00:06:38,960 --> 00:06:41,680 Speaker 2: so it doesn't move. Then all of a sudden it's gone. 115 00:06:42,080 --> 00:06:44,760 Speaker 3: Yeah, and then it's off. So yeah. So my sisters 116 00:06:44,800 --> 00:06:47,240 Speaker 3: and I we all went through it all together and 117 00:06:47,320 --> 00:06:50,440 Speaker 3: that was just a part of life for us. So 118 00:06:51,000 --> 00:06:54,080 Speaker 3: I felt at the time, like I said, you don't 119 00:06:54,200 --> 00:06:56,880 Speaker 3: know any different. So for me, that was just normal. 120 00:06:56,920 --> 00:06:59,120 Speaker 3: It was only when I got older that I realized 121 00:06:59,160 --> 00:07:01,359 Speaker 3: that I had been extraordinary childhood. 122 00:07:01,480 --> 00:07:04,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's fascinating when you say that, because it's so true. 123 00:07:04,600 --> 00:07:07,440 Speaker 2: You know, you are a product of your environment and 124 00:07:08,040 --> 00:07:11,320 Speaker 2: the people around you. And when did you start realizing that, 125 00:07:11,400 --> 00:07:15,520 Speaker 2: you know that this wasn't actually classed as the norm, 126 00:07:15,800 --> 00:07:18,560 Speaker 2: and when did you start to realize all, wow, actually 127 00:07:18,600 --> 00:07:21,760 Speaker 2: I'm probably a small percentage here that's been through this. 128 00:07:22,680 --> 00:07:27,920 Speaker 3: Basically at school, I mean, school is a great leveler, 129 00:07:28,240 --> 00:07:32,480 Speaker 3: and I went to, you know, a very standard public school. 130 00:07:32,800 --> 00:07:35,240 Speaker 3: It wasn't any you know, there was no posh in 131 00:07:35,280 --> 00:07:38,200 Speaker 3: my world. It was very much a coastal, little ossy 132 00:07:38,360 --> 00:07:43,280 Speaker 3: seaside town and there was basically surfers and bogans and 133 00:07:43,600 --> 00:07:47,520 Speaker 3: that's about as posha as it got. So it was 134 00:07:47,640 --> 00:07:53,520 Speaker 3: real melting pot. And I learned pretty quickly at school 135 00:07:53,760 --> 00:07:56,920 Speaker 3: that everyone didn't have the child that I had. But 136 00:07:57,880 --> 00:08:00,560 Speaker 3: every day I would come home to this part advice 137 00:08:00,960 --> 00:08:03,880 Speaker 3: and I would come home to this incredible sort of 138 00:08:03,920 --> 00:08:06,600 Speaker 3: family of adventures. It meant that I really had the 139 00:08:06,600 --> 00:08:10,280 Speaker 3: school life and then I had the home life. And 140 00:08:10,880 --> 00:08:13,640 Speaker 3: I think that that home life really did plant the 141 00:08:13,680 --> 00:08:16,360 Speaker 3: seeds of adventure. And I don't think there was ever 142 00:08:16,400 --> 00:08:19,360 Speaker 3: going to be an option where I wasn't out pushing 143 00:08:19,400 --> 00:08:21,680 Speaker 3: the boundaries of things, because I think it's actually in 144 00:08:21,680 --> 00:08:22,280 Speaker 3: my makeup. 145 00:08:22,760 --> 00:08:25,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, it was this. It was the moment you left it, 146 00:08:25,560 --> 00:08:28,760 Speaker 2: left the room you were, you were there, thrown into 147 00:08:28,800 --> 00:08:32,840 Speaker 2: this life of an adventure. I love that pretty much. 148 00:08:33,679 --> 00:08:37,320 Speaker 2: And so what did you want to do? 149 00:08:37,360 --> 00:08:37,560 Speaker 3: You know? 150 00:08:37,600 --> 00:08:39,800 Speaker 2: When we saw of get to that stage of people 151 00:08:39,840 --> 00:08:42,199 Speaker 2: asking the question what do you want to do? You know, 152 00:08:42,280 --> 00:08:44,640 Speaker 2: who do you want to become? And it's sort of 153 00:08:44,679 --> 00:08:47,160 Speaker 2: forced upon us to make a decision, you know there 154 00:08:47,200 --> 00:08:49,520 Speaker 2: and then how did that work out for you? 155 00:08:50,400 --> 00:08:54,400 Speaker 3: I guess there were a few options, and most of 156 00:08:54,440 --> 00:08:57,280 Speaker 3: the things that I wanted to do were either to 157 00:08:57,320 --> 00:09:00,760 Speaker 3: do with being outside or there were to do with writing. 158 00:09:01,280 --> 00:09:05,520 Speaker 3: I've been writing since I remember, and it was only 159 00:09:06,320 --> 00:09:09,840 Speaker 3: much later, I think, in my very early twenties, that 160 00:09:10,000 --> 00:09:15,319 Speaker 3: I discovered that my grandmother was an incredible Australian author 161 00:09:15,720 --> 00:09:20,400 Speaker 3: and writer, and that writing is actually in my and 162 00:09:20,440 --> 00:09:22,240 Speaker 3: I didn't know that when I was a kid. But 163 00:09:22,400 --> 00:09:27,600 Speaker 3: I have been writing the whole time, and I definitely 164 00:09:27,640 --> 00:09:30,320 Speaker 3: wanted to be a writer. That was that was always 165 00:09:30,400 --> 00:09:32,840 Speaker 3: part of the plan, but also the plan. You know what, 166 00:09:32,840 --> 00:09:34,160 Speaker 3: You're like me, you're a kid, You're like, well, I'm 167 00:09:34,160 --> 00:09:35,440 Speaker 3: going to be this, and then I'm going to be that, 168 00:09:35,480 --> 00:09:36,640 Speaker 3: and I'm going to be that, and then I'm going 169 00:09:36,640 --> 00:09:37,679 Speaker 3: to do all of that at all, and then I'm 170 00:09:37,720 --> 00:09:39,319 Speaker 3: going to sail around the world and I'm going to 171 00:09:39,960 --> 00:09:42,560 Speaker 3: new lands that haven't been found yet, and I'm going 172 00:09:42,640 --> 00:09:46,000 Speaker 3: to name animals that haven't been discovered yet and all 173 00:09:46,040 --> 00:09:49,400 Speaker 3: of that. I was devastated actually to find out that 174 00:09:49,480 --> 00:09:51,960 Speaker 3: everything already had been named on the map. So I 175 00:09:52,000 --> 00:09:53,640 Speaker 3: remember there was a moment of going, what do you 176 00:09:53,720 --> 00:09:56,600 Speaker 3: mean I can't go and discover the lost world? 177 00:09:56,720 --> 00:09:59,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, find a new island? Or do you know what 178 00:09:59,240 --> 00:10:01,600 Speaker 2: I think you're think it's out there? Gena, I don't 179 00:10:01,640 --> 00:10:04,000 Speaker 2: think that we have I think if you go, we 180 00:10:04,000 --> 00:10:05,640 Speaker 2: should go. We should go on a on a on 181 00:10:05,679 --> 00:10:07,800 Speaker 2: a dual search. I'm sure we're fine. 182 00:10:07,880 --> 00:10:12,600 Speaker 3: Something I reckon, So I think I thought it big. 183 00:10:12,720 --> 00:10:14,880 Speaker 2: I love what you say about you know, writing is 184 00:10:14,920 --> 00:10:18,720 Speaker 2: in our DNA, because we we're constantly writing our own 185 00:10:18,760 --> 00:10:21,040 Speaker 2: story just by going on these adventures. You know, we're 186 00:10:21,080 --> 00:10:23,800 Speaker 2: not physically they're writing them down, but we're writing them 187 00:10:23,800 --> 00:10:26,000 Speaker 2: in our head. We're writing them in our memories, we're 188 00:10:26,000 --> 00:10:28,679 Speaker 2: writing them in our you know, in our DNA, and 189 00:10:28,760 --> 00:10:30,920 Speaker 2: all it takes for them is just to transfer that 190 00:10:31,040 --> 00:10:34,000 Speaker 2: onto a pen and paper. But you you've had this 191 00:10:34,160 --> 00:10:38,760 Speaker 2: super sort of adventures as a child into your teen 192 00:10:38,840 --> 00:10:42,520 Speaker 2: years and then then you you meet a fine gentleman 193 00:10:42,520 --> 00:10:48,320 Speaker 2: along the way and you you you you feel pregnant. 194 00:10:48,360 --> 00:10:48,960 Speaker 2: Is that correct. 195 00:10:50,080 --> 00:10:57,079 Speaker 3: So I met Lee at a primitive skills in New 196 00:10:57,160 --> 00:11:00,960 Speaker 3: Jersey called Tom Brown Junior's Track of School, like that 197 00:11:01,120 --> 00:11:04,960 Speaker 3: was just the biggest adventure ever. And met this kind 198 00:11:05,000 --> 00:11:10,160 Speaker 3: of cockney cocky cockney lad who followed me home. So 199 00:11:10,240 --> 00:11:10,760 Speaker 3: I kept it. 200 00:11:12,440 --> 00:11:15,480 Speaker 2: There you go, You're like, I'm having you. Thanks you 201 00:11:15,640 --> 00:11:18,360 Speaker 2: very much. Listen, my tracking skills and my and my 202 00:11:18,400 --> 00:11:21,560 Speaker 2: survival skills have come in handy your mine. I've caught you. 203 00:11:21,760 --> 00:11:25,800 Speaker 4: Yeah, well I think we caught each other actually, And 204 00:11:25,840 --> 00:11:30,560 Speaker 4: then but then yes, then I I got pregnant and 205 00:11:32,000 --> 00:11:33,880 Speaker 4: four days after I found out I was pregnant, I 206 00:11:33,920 --> 00:11:36,199 Speaker 4: found out I had breast cancer, which was a bit 207 00:11:36,320 --> 00:11:37,200 Speaker 4: of a shock. 208 00:11:37,960 --> 00:11:41,240 Speaker 3: And I went on this huge journey of healing and 209 00:11:41,760 --> 00:11:45,480 Speaker 3: slobby and ended up having my daughter. 210 00:11:45,720 --> 00:11:48,640 Speaker 2: So when you when you fell pregnant four days later 211 00:11:49,400 --> 00:11:54,560 Speaker 2: you got diagnosed with breast cancer, God, that must have 212 00:11:54,640 --> 00:11:58,920 Speaker 2: been not only a shock to you, to yourself, but 213 00:11:59,760 --> 00:12:05,640 Speaker 2: all so really detrimental to your daughter. You know, did 214 00:12:05,720 --> 00:12:08,800 Speaker 2: you did you go through treatment? Were you was there 215 00:12:08,880 --> 00:12:11,840 Speaker 2: moments that you were told that you couldn't have have 216 00:12:12,080 --> 00:12:15,040 Speaker 2: the baby? You know? Just just take me back to 217 00:12:15,200 --> 00:12:16,760 Speaker 2: to that period if you can. 218 00:12:17,040 --> 00:12:21,400 Speaker 3: I was advised because it was a cancer that set 219 00:12:21,480 --> 00:12:25,760 Speaker 3: on hormones, and pregnancy has lots of those, and I 220 00:12:25,880 --> 00:12:28,360 Speaker 3: was told that I basically had to terminate the pregnancy 221 00:12:28,440 --> 00:12:31,800 Speaker 3: or I would die. And I threaded a needle with 222 00:12:31,840 --> 00:12:34,480 Speaker 3: a very small hole, with a very fine piece of thread. 223 00:12:35,000 --> 00:12:37,440 Speaker 3: I found that, you know, I managed to stitch myself 224 00:12:37,480 --> 00:12:43,000 Speaker 3: through that whole experience and brought together tools that I'd 225 00:12:43,000 --> 00:12:47,200 Speaker 3: assembled my whole life to be able to go through 226 00:12:47,240 --> 00:12:50,720 Speaker 3: that experience, and I guess not be broken by it, 227 00:12:51,040 --> 00:12:53,400 Speaker 3: you know, constantly saying well, what is the what is 228 00:12:53,440 --> 00:12:55,360 Speaker 3: the thing that I can do right now? I can't 229 00:12:55,360 --> 00:12:58,680 Speaker 3: think about tomorrow, next week, or next year or any 230 00:12:58,679 --> 00:13:01,880 Speaker 3: of that, but right now is where I can take responsibility. 231 00:13:02,360 --> 00:13:04,959 Speaker 3: This is the information that I have. And as a 232 00:13:04,960 --> 00:13:07,640 Speaker 3: as I was completely present in that so that in 233 00:13:07,679 --> 00:13:11,160 Speaker 3: every moment I could make that choice, just that choice, 234 00:13:11,240 --> 00:13:14,880 Speaker 3: just that choice. So I managed to, yeah, find my 235 00:13:14,960 --> 00:13:16,320 Speaker 3: way through and. 236 00:13:17,000 --> 00:13:20,600 Speaker 2: Small commitments at a time, right like with anything in life, 237 00:13:20,720 --> 00:13:22,920 Speaker 2: Like you said, you know that time, that time is 238 00:13:23,040 --> 00:13:26,920 Speaker 2: just adding all of those up. And it must have 239 00:13:27,000 --> 00:13:33,120 Speaker 2: been incredibly sort of difficult to ignore such sort of 240 00:13:33,480 --> 00:13:36,760 Speaker 2: you know, medical advice. But what was it like, you know, 241 00:13:36,760 --> 00:13:41,120 Speaker 2: knowing this information and then giving birth to Blaze. 242 00:13:41,160 --> 00:13:46,280 Speaker 3: Well, I mean birth, birth is a doorway, and birth 243 00:13:46,400 --> 00:13:51,400 Speaker 3: is a death, and anyone who has birth knows this. 244 00:13:51,600 --> 00:13:55,600 Speaker 3: The person that we are before we birth is they 245 00:13:55,640 --> 00:13:58,200 Speaker 3: die in the process of birth. You know. It's like 246 00:13:58,240 --> 00:14:02,720 Speaker 3: a new creature come into the world and we leave 247 00:14:02,800 --> 00:14:05,439 Speaker 3: ourselves behind in the process, and a you us has 248 00:14:05,480 --> 00:14:07,800 Speaker 3: to come in to touch that creature. And so for me, 249 00:14:08,440 --> 00:14:12,480 Speaker 3: I was so pressent through that whole journey because every 250 00:14:12,640 --> 00:14:15,720 Speaker 3: decision I made was life or death. That came to 251 00:14:15,760 --> 00:14:18,920 Speaker 3: the birth. It was actually amazing and freeing to be 252 00:14:19,000 --> 00:14:21,160 Speaker 3: able to go, oh my god, I'm just I can 253 00:14:21,280 --> 00:14:24,560 Speaker 3: just birth like a normal woman who's just pregnant. And 254 00:14:25,880 --> 00:14:28,960 Speaker 3: birth is one of the most incredible experiences I've ever 255 00:14:29,000 --> 00:14:31,800 Speaker 3: been through in my life. And I'm so so grateful 256 00:14:31,880 --> 00:14:35,520 Speaker 3: that that my body knows this. So many women who 257 00:14:35,560 --> 00:14:38,000 Speaker 3: don't get to experience that and then get to be 258 00:14:38,080 --> 00:14:42,280 Speaker 3: mothers in very different ways and our mothers just as much. 259 00:14:42,320 --> 00:14:47,920 Speaker 3: But the actual experience of birth in myself has definitely 260 00:14:48,720 --> 00:14:51,680 Speaker 3: helped sort of create me as a person. 261 00:14:52,160 --> 00:14:55,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, I suppose it's the most natural, purest form of life, 262 00:14:55,320 --> 00:14:58,480 Speaker 2: isn't it. It's that whole circle of life. So it's 263 00:14:58,600 --> 00:14:59,760 Speaker 2: so so cool. 264 00:15:00,440 --> 00:15:04,840 Speaker 3: Yeah, it really is. And for me, there was something 265 00:15:04,880 --> 00:15:09,480 Speaker 3: about like this little creature and this little creature, where 266 00:15:09,520 --> 00:15:13,360 Speaker 3: did she come from? Her eyes were open and I'm like, 267 00:15:13,880 --> 00:15:17,760 Speaker 3: she's not like what's looking through those eyes? Is this 268 00:15:17,920 --> 00:15:21,720 Speaker 3: like mystery that's wrapped in skin? And oh my god, 269 00:15:21,840 --> 00:15:24,760 Speaker 3: that somehow grew in my body? But she is her 270 00:15:24,800 --> 00:15:25,480 Speaker 3: own person. 271 00:15:25,720 --> 00:15:31,200 Speaker 2: All of that like fireworks, fireworks insane. It is because 272 00:15:31,240 --> 00:15:33,800 Speaker 2: I've got five children myself and I'm not I remember 273 00:15:33,880 --> 00:15:37,080 Speaker 2: holding them, you know, soon it's seen as soon as 274 00:15:37,080 --> 00:15:40,280 Speaker 2: they came out onto mum once once mum was it 275 00:15:40,360 --> 00:15:42,520 Speaker 2: then just and looking at the eyes, you know, thinking 276 00:15:42,560 --> 00:15:44,320 Speaker 2: they can't even see me, you know, they can just 277 00:15:44,520 --> 00:15:48,280 Speaker 2: probably see shadows. What's the little mind going through? How 278 00:15:48,400 --> 00:15:51,520 Speaker 2: is that little heart pumping? And you know I've got 279 00:15:51,720 --> 00:15:56,880 Speaker 2: I've got something that's completely reliant on myself and my 280 00:15:56,920 --> 00:16:01,320 Speaker 2: wife to you know, to survive. You know, talk about responsibility. 281 00:16:01,400 --> 00:16:03,880 Speaker 2: It's like and that made me excited that that that 282 00:16:03,960 --> 00:16:07,360 Speaker 2: gave me the the buzz to to to really want 283 00:16:07,360 --> 00:16:09,960 Speaker 2: to not only better myself, but you know, to to 284 00:16:09,960 --> 00:16:13,120 Speaker 2: to better people around me. So I sort of understand 285 00:16:13,120 --> 00:16:15,960 Speaker 2: it on a on a on a on a fatherhood scale. 286 00:16:16,160 --> 00:16:18,120 Speaker 2: But you know, like you say to that, when that 287 00:16:18,320 --> 00:16:20,640 Speaker 2: when that baby is growing inside of you, you know, 288 00:16:20,840 --> 00:16:22,600 Speaker 2: Car and you say that, you leave a part of 289 00:16:22,640 --> 00:16:25,360 Speaker 2: you behind, of who you were. I can sort of 290 00:16:25,920 --> 00:16:28,760 Speaker 2: understand that in a way, but Car, to go through 291 00:16:28,800 --> 00:16:32,680 Speaker 2: that not sort of envious, but I'm like, wow, that 292 00:16:32,760 --> 00:16:35,360 Speaker 2: must be some you know, talk about the purest form 293 00:16:35,360 --> 00:16:37,280 Speaker 2: of life, some experience to be able to do that 294 00:16:37,400 --> 00:16:40,240 Speaker 2: is especially with the way that you think, Gina, you know, 295 00:16:40,320 --> 00:16:42,760 Speaker 2: the way that you're connected, the way that you're you're 296 00:16:42,800 --> 00:16:46,280 Speaker 2: grounded with with the planet. It's a I can only 297 00:16:46,320 --> 00:16:50,040 Speaker 2: imagine the fascination going through your head. 298 00:16:50,520 --> 00:16:54,320 Speaker 3: I think that humans are designed to search for ways 299 00:16:54,360 --> 00:16:57,400 Speaker 3: to be in service to something greater than selves. And 300 00:16:57,520 --> 00:17:00,480 Speaker 3: when that happens, when we find a purpose greater themselves, 301 00:17:00,560 --> 00:17:03,760 Speaker 3: whatever it is, there is past that feels at home. 302 00:17:03,840 --> 00:17:06,280 Speaker 3: It's like, Okay, now I get to bring my gifts, 303 00:17:06,359 --> 00:17:08,560 Speaker 3: Now I get to bring my wisdom. Now I am 304 00:17:08,560 --> 00:17:11,720 Speaker 3: not the most important thing in my universe. We go 305 00:17:11,840 --> 00:17:14,159 Speaker 3: from the selfishness of a child, it's like I'm the 306 00:17:14,160 --> 00:17:16,960 Speaker 3: only thing that exists, and then you know, the entitlement 307 00:17:17,000 --> 00:17:19,439 Speaker 3: of a teenager is like I deserve, and then we 308 00:17:19,480 --> 00:17:22,080 Speaker 3: get broken in our twenties into their like the universe 309 00:17:22,119 --> 00:17:24,919 Speaker 3: doesn't actually give a shit, and you know if you 310 00:17:25,320 --> 00:17:28,159 Speaker 3: if you don't find a way to fit into the 311 00:17:28,200 --> 00:17:30,960 Speaker 3: greater context of life, then then life is going to 312 00:17:31,000 --> 00:17:33,159 Speaker 3: slap your hard until you get it. And by the 313 00:17:33,240 --> 00:17:36,440 Speaker 3: time we have a child, then there's this oh. 314 00:17:36,119 --> 00:17:38,560 Speaker 2: Wow, now it makes sense. 315 00:17:39,000 --> 00:17:41,359 Speaker 3: I will yeah, I will never again be the most 316 00:17:41,359 --> 00:17:44,119 Speaker 3: important thing in my life. As long as this child 317 00:17:44,280 --> 00:17:46,479 Speaker 3: is breathing, then I am in service to them in 318 00:17:46,520 --> 00:17:48,480 Speaker 3: some way. And then of course there's the parts of 319 00:17:48,480 --> 00:17:49,120 Speaker 3: as like. 320 00:17:49,119 --> 00:17:51,359 Speaker 2: Oh my god, I've ruined my life and your little 321 00:17:51,400 --> 00:17:53,840 Speaker 2: bugger and why can't I just go back to my 322 00:17:54,080 --> 00:17:55,280 Speaker 2: care free life. 323 00:17:55,680 --> 00:17:58,280 Speaker 3: I was so great before. But then there is that 324 00:17:58,520 --> 00:18:01,119 Speaker 3: deeper like you can't help it. You just get cracked 325 00:18:01,160 --> 00:18:02,520 Speaker 3: open over and over. 326 00:18:11,320 --> 00:18:12,639 Speaker 2: Beautiful Blaze was born. 327 00:18:14,240 --> 00:18:15,320 Speaker 3: And then. 328 00:18:16,520 --> 00:18:19,160 Speaker 2: I suppose every parent's worst nightmare, I know it would 329 00:18:19,160 --> 00:18:23,959 Speaker 2: certainly be mine. Three years later, you find a lump 330 00:18:24,480 --> 00:18:29,359 Speaker 2: in Blaze's belly. Can you just take me back to 331 00:18:29,400 --> 00:18:32,840 Speaker 2: when you when you identified that and how you identified it? 332 00:18:32,880 --> 00:18:35,399 Speaker 2: Were you playing with Blaze? And how old of a 333 00:18:35,440 --> 00:18:39,240 Speaker 2: suddenly did you come across the lump that was on 334 00:18:39,720 --> 00:18:41,400 Speaker 2: her belly. 335 00:18:42,000 --> 00:18:45,440 Speaker 3: Ah, if you've ever had a toddler, you know they've 336 00:18:45,440 --> 00:18:47,560 Speaker 3: got a big tummy, you know, they just get this 337 00:18:47,600 --> 00:18:50,400 Speaker 3: big belly and then they grow out of it. And 338 00:18:50,680 --> 00:18:53,560 Speaker 3: I just had a moment of seeing her going, yeah, 339 00:18:53,880 --> 00:18:57,359 Speaker 3: tommy's too big. Y's that's too big, and you know, 340 00:18:57,520 --> 00:19:00,439 Speaker 3: just one of those little instinctive moments and then come here, 341 00:19:00,520 --> 00:19:03,960 Speaker 3: let me feel it. And so it was big. I felt. 342 00:19:03,960 --> 00:19:06,320 Speaker 3: It's like if anyone who's ever had cancer, you know 343 00:19:06,359 --> 00:19:08,520 Speaker 3: how it feels. It's hard. It's like a rock. It's 344 00:19:08,520 --> 00:19:11,639 Speaker 3: like a stone, you know, and it's it's it's like 345 00:19:12,240 --> 00:19:16,400 Speaker 3: running into a wall, feeling a tumor lump. And so 346 00:19:16,520 --> 00:19:20,480 Speaker 3: I felt that inside her and I immediately. 347 00:19:19,880 --> 00:19:21,280 Speaker 2: Knew how big. 348 00:19:22,000 --> 00:19:25,080 Speaker 3: To me, it felt like a fist, like that's in her. 349 00:19:25,359 --> 00:19:28,760 Speaker 3: It was like it was big. It's all a blurn. 350 00:19:28,800 --> 00:19:30,719 Speaker 3: Now I can't tell you exactly how big it was 351 00:19:30,760 --> 00:19:33,879 Speaker 3: because it's you know, so much more happened, but it 352 00:19:34,440 --> 00:19:37,919 Speaker 3: was definitely. The cancer that I had was quite small, 353 00:19:38,160 --> 00:19:40,800 Speaker 3: it was like one or two centimeters, but on that 354 00:19:40,880 --> 00:19:44,080 Speaker 3: she had definitely like I was like, whoa, there's a 355 00:19:44,200 --> 00:19:47,680 Speaker 3: that's not just a lump that's a rock and yeah, 356 00:19:47,720 --> 00:19:51,240 Speaker 3: and then I knew. I knew that because I've felt Yeah, 357 00:19:51,240 --> 00:19:55,400 Speaker 3: because I'd felt it in my own breast. I felt 358 00:19:55,520 --> 00:19:58,520 Speaker 3: I've felt that, you know, thousands of times in my 359 00:19:58,560 --> 00:20:01,440 Speaker 3: own breast. What's that? It is there? It is there? 360 00:20:01,440 --> 00:20:02,680 Speaker 3: It is there. It is you know when you're like 361 00:20:02,720 --> 00:20:04,399 Speaker 3: you get a hole in you, like you when you 362 00:20:04,520 --> 00:20:06,240 Speaker 3: pulled out a tooth or something, is it getting you 363 00:20:06,280 --> 00:20:07,959 Speaker 3: stick your tongue in it and you're worry at it 364 00:20:08,080 --> 00:20:11,400 Speaker 3: or it's the same thing. It's that that, Well, there's 365 00:20:11,400 --> 00:20:14,679 Speaker 3: something there. I'll just poke at it and feel it. 366 00:20:15,359 --> 00:20:18,000 Speaker 2: So you knew, you knew before you even took her 367 00:20:18,040 --> 00:20:20,560 Speaker 2: to the to the doctors took her to you knew. 368 00:20:21,359 --> 00:20:27,280 Speaker 2: So when when Blaze was diagnosed with cancer, were you 369 00:20:27,359 --> 00:20:32,919 Speaker 2: already you know, preparing for the worst. I expect, you know, 370 00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:35,280 Speaker 2: you actually knowing in your head or what was going 371 00:20:35,320 --> 00:20:37,800 Speaker 2: through your head once once the doctor sort of confirmed 372 00:20:38,680 --> 00:20:39,520 Speaker 2: what you already knew. 373 00:20:40,520 --> 00:20:48,560 Speaker 3: M I think, I mean I did know, But then again, 374 00:20:48,720 --> 00:20:52,960 Speaker 3: having been through it all myself, I know, and I 375 00:20:53,080 --> 00:20:56,840 Speaker 3: knew that there's all of the tests, what kind is it, 376 00:20:56,880 --> 00:20:59,080 Speaker 3: what does it do? Has it gone? And outside? Is 377 00:20:59,119 --> 00:21:01,000 Speaker 3: it in the lymph nodes as have gone through the body. 378 00:21:01,119 --> 00:21:03,880 Speaker 3: Is it malignant? Is it this? Is it that? So 379 00:21:03,880 --> 00:21:07,399 Speaker 3: so again, there are probably a lot of people who 380 00:21:07,440 --> 00:21:09,840 Speaker 3: are listening to this who have been through cancer, and 381 00:21:09,880 --> 00:21:12,880 Speaker 3: when you have been through cancer, it becomes a hurry 382 00:21:12,960 --> 00:21:17,840 Speaker 3: up and wait situation. There's okay, there's a diagnosis, but 383 00:21:17,960 --> 00:21:20,719 Speaker 3: now we need to know, we need pathology. So then 384 00:21:20,760 --> 00:21:22,040 Speaker 3: you've got a test and you've got to sit there 385 00:21:22,040 --> 00:21:24,399 Speaker 3: and you've got to go to do and wait for 386 00:21:24,480 --> 00:21:26,960 Speaker 3: that to come back. And then when it comes back, 387 00:21:27,000 --> 00:21:28,560 Speaker 3: then you've got to wait for doctors to tell you 388 00:21:28,560 --> 00:21:31,040 Speaker 3: what it means. And then they give you some options 389 00:21:31,480 --> 00:21:33,560 Speaker 3: and then it's like well you can do this or 390 00:21:33,560 --> 00:21:36,000 Speaker 3: this or this or this or this and then make 391 00:21:36,040 --> 00:21:38,040 Speaker 3: a decision, and then you've got to wait to be 392 00:21:38,080 --> 00:21:40,560 Speaker 3: able to let that start. So there's these kind of 393 00:21:40,600 --> 00:21:45,280 Speaker 3: like this stutter stops like yes, no, it's like having 394 00:21:45,320 --> 00:21:47,760 Speaker 3: someone driving a cab and you're in the cab and 395 00:21:47,800 --> 00:21:49,480 Speaker 3: that you know those people and they put on the 396 00:21:49,520 --> 00:21:51,199 Speaker 3: accelereta and then they put on the brake and you're 397 00:21:51,240 --> 00:21:55,040 Speaker 3: like you're like this, like just decide, dude, just like 398 00:21:55,400 --> 00:21:58,640 Speaker 3: go one way or the other. So I think there 399 00:21:58,840 --> 00:22:03,200 Speaker 3: wasn't really a lot of room in that moment for 400 00:22:03,640 --> 00:22:07,800 Speaker 3: really even projecting. It was it was what information is 401 00:22:07,840 --> 00:22:13,720 Speaker 3: coming in, and I make decisions based on my logic. 402 00:22:14,400 --> 00:22:18,040 Speaker 3: I will absolutely assemb all of the data that I can, 403 00:22:18,520 --> 00:22:21,800 Speaker 3: but my ultimate decision comes from my belly, from my instincts. 404 00:22:21,960 --> 00:22:25,320 Speaker 3: So I'll have my emotions and I'll hold them gently, 405 00:22:25,880 --> 00:22:28,720 Speaker 3: and I'll have logic and I'll hold that gently. But 406 00:22:28,760 --> 00:22:31,879 Speaker 3: then the intuitive leap that gets to move through those 407 00:22:31,920 --> 00:22:35,240 Speaker 3: two things, that's actually how I decide things. So when 408 00:22:35,280 --> 00:22:37,960 Speaker 3: I was told, you know, you must terminate this pregnancy 409 00:22:38,040 --> 00:22:39,960 Speaker 3: or you'll die, it's like all the information, all the 410 00:22:39,960 --> 00:22:42,560 Speaker 3: logic was yes, you'll die, and my heart is like, 411 00:22:42,560 --> 00:22:46,840 Speaker 3: oh my god, no, But my inisted that is a way. 412 00:22:47,280 --> 00:22:50,040 Speaker 3: And if I stay clear and scentered and come, I 413 00:22:50,119 --> 00:22:52,399 Speaker 3: know I can find it. But I need to stay 414 00:22:52,520 --> 00:22:54,800 Speaker 3: clear and centered and calme. So anything that knocks me 415 00:22:54,840 --> 00:22:56,560 Speaker 3: off center I need to be able to deal with. 416 00:22:56,600 --> 00:22:59,120 Speaker 3: So it became a meditation, and it was then there 417 00:22:59,119 --> 00:23:03,399 Speaker 3: was the same thing. Once Blaze was diagnosed, it was 418 00:23:03,480 --> 00:23:05,280 Speaker 3: pretty much the same thing. There's a whole bunch of 419 00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:08,440 Speaker 3: information and then there's a whole bunch of emotional process. 420 00:23:08,840 --> 00:23:11,760 Speaker 3: But then there was this you know, instinctive voice. I 421 00:23:11,840 --> 00:23:17,520 Speaker 3: trust my gut absolutely implicitly. Whatever it tells me, That's 422 00:23:17,560 --> 00:23:20,400 Speaker 3: where I go, no matter what what noise is going on, 423 00:23:20,920 --> 00:23:22,440 Speaker 3: My gut is my guide. 424 00:23:23,480 --> 00:23:26,359 Speaker 2: When Blaze was born, was there was there checks, you know, 425 00:23:26,480 --> 00:23:29,080 Speaker 2: where they thought like, you've you've you've had cancer's let's 426 00:23:29,119 --> 00:23:32,520 Speaker 2: check this baby thoroughly, or was it a case of 427 00:23:32,560 --> 00:23:36,400 Speaker 2: notes She's clear, and all of a sudden, three years 428 00:23:36,440 --> 00:23:37,760 Speaker 2: later you find this lump. 429 00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:41,800 Speaker 3: The interesting thing about cancer is there are many pathways 430 00:23:41,800 --> 00:23:45,240 Speaker 3: that cancer can take to express in a body. You know, 431 00:23:45,280 --> 00:23:48,000 Speaker 3: some of it is environmental, some of it may be genetic, 432 00:23:48,119 --> 00:23:49,960 Speaker 3: you know, some of it can be diet, some of 433 00:23:50,240 --> 00:23:54,360 Speaker 3: can be emotional. The cancer that I had, I had 434 00:23:54,400 --> 00:23:57,400 Speaker 3: every test for genetic markers and there was nothing. There 435 00:23:57,440 --> 00:23:59,879 Speaker 3: was no family history, there was there was just like 436 00:24:00,359 --> 00:24:03,000 Speaker 3: it was. It was a unicorn. It was a lightning strike. 437 00:24:03,040 --> 00:24:05,760 Speaker 3: The doctors were like, we have no idea. You're healthy, 438 00:24:05,840 --> 00:24:08,960 Speaker 3: you're fit, there's nothing in your genes, and yet here 439 00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:13,200 Speaker 3: you are with stage three, grade three malignant breast cancer, 440 00:24:13,359 --> 00:24:17,679 Speaker 3: pretty much your toast and we don't know why. But 441 00:24:18,320 --> 00:24:21,800 Speaker 3: because there were no genetic markers, there was no there 442 00:24:21,840 --> 00:24:25,440 Speaker 3: was actually no question about Blaze having cancer. It wasn't 443 00:24:25,440 --> 00:24:27,439 Speaker 3: that thing of like because I have cancer, then she 444 00:24:27,520 --> 00:24:31,320 Speaker 3: will grow it. It doesn't work that way. And it 445 00:24:31,400 --> 00:24:34,560 Speaker 3: was then when she ended up with cancer. It's for me. 446 00:24:34,640 --> 00:24:36,880 Speaker 3: It was an absolute wildcard and for them as well, 447 00:24:37,040 --> 00:24:39,080 Speaker 3: and the doctors they said that we don't we have 448 00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:42,560 Speaker 3: no idea, We have no idea why she has it 449 00:24:42,840 --> 00:24:46,160 Speaker 3: either related to yours. It's not related to anything you did. 450 00:24:46,720 --> 00:24:49,800 Speaker 3: It's just that's just the roll of the dice. 451 00:24:50,160 --> 00:24:52,840 Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, you say that, the vault of the dice. 452 00:24:53,640 --> 00:24:57,720 Speaker 2: How long from her diagnosis to when when she passed? 453 00:24:58,119 --> 00:25:03,200 Speaker 3: How long was that that would have been all up? 454 00:25:04,400 --> 00:25:06,600 Speaker 3: No more than about six months? 455 00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:11,439 Speaker 2: Oh wow, So it took hold and just yeah, yeah. 456 00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:13,439 Speaker 3: No, it was really it was really quick. It was 457 00:25:13,480 --> 00:25:14,040 Speaker 3: really quick. 458 00:25:15,040 --> 00:25:17,119 Speaker 2: What was going through your head during that six months? 459 00:25:17,160 --> 00:25:20,439 Speaker 2: And was there any hope that that that you know, 460 00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:22,679 Speaker 2: this they could get rid of this cancer? There was, right? 461 00:25:23,119 --> 00:25:24,920 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, so we thought we thought we had got 462 00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:27,159 Speaker 3: rid of it. Oh wow, we thought we thought it 463 00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:32,879 Speaker 3: was done. And then it was just like she was 464 00:25:32,920 --> 00:25:35,600 Speaker 3: here and then she wasn't, Like she was fine until 465 00:25:35,640 --> 00:25:38,919 Speaker 3: she wasn't. There wasn't it wasn't like there was this huge, 466 00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:42,840 Speaker 3: long drawn out process. She was fine and then then 467 00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:46,880 Speaker 3: she was gone. It was really it was actually really 468 00:25:46,960 --> 00:25:52,600 Speaker 3: beautiful because there wasn't this long process. We just got 469 00:25:52,600 --> 00:25:57,000 Speaker 3: to have our daughter and then very quickly she just 470 00:25:57,080 --> 00:26:00,439 Speaker 3: wasn't here anymore. And I'm glad. I'm glad it was 471 00:26:00,520 --> 00:26:04,679 Speaker 3: like that. Actually, that's that's better than watching a wild 472 00:26:04,720 --> 00:26:06,160 Speaker 3: thing be caged. 473 00:26:06,720 --> 00:26:09,320 Speaker 2: How was your grieving process and how did you get 474 00:26:09,320 --> 00:26:09,600 Speaker 2: through it? 475 00:26:10,080 --> 00:26:13,679 Speaker 3: Grief demands to be felt, and we live in a 476 00:26:13,760 --> 00:26:18,920 Speaker 3: culture that I think doesn't have healthy ceremonies and rituals 477 00:26:18,920 --> 00:26:23,000 Speaker 3: and language about grief. You know, stiff upper lip and 478 00:26:23,240 --> 00:26:27,560 Speaker 3: emotions are suspect and well it's very inconvenient, incredibly uncomfortable. 479 00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:29,639 Speaker 3: So we're just going to make that girlway, shall we. 480 00:26:30,119 --> 00:26:32,760 Speaker 3: And I don't hold to that at all, like I 481 00:26:32,920 --> 00:26:37,159 Speaker 3: would rather let the ocean of emotion roll through me. 482 00:26:37,680 --> 00:26:41,360 Speaker 3: For me, emotions are like weather. They come and they go, 483 00:26:41,560 --> 00:26:45,400 Speaker 3: and a storm doesn't stay storming on you for months. 484 00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:47,200 Speaker 3: A storm comes and then it goes, and then there's 485 00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:49,879 Speaker 3: another storm, but then there's some sunshine in between, and sudden, 486 00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:53,040 Speaker 3: you know, the ocean is beautiful and calm and clear 487 00:26:53,160 --> 00:26:55,320 Speaker 3: and like dazzling light one day and the next day 488 00:26:55,320 --> 00:26:57,639 Speaker 3: it's like these pounding waves that are like you know, 489 00:26:58,000 --> 00:27:01,159 Speaker 3: churning up the beach. That for me is the experience 490 00:27:01,640 --> 00:27:06,640 Speaker 3: of being in a body and having emotions. And so 491 00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:10,840 Speaker 3: I just asked every day of grief, what do you 492 00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:14,560 Speaker 3: need from me? What is grief asking of me to know? 493 00:27:15,359 --> 00:27:18,639 Speaker 3: Some days it was asking me to wail and have tantrums, 494 00:27:18,640 --> 00:27:22,080 Speaker 3: and other days it was asking me to laugh with 495 00:27:22,119 --> 00:27:24,080 Speaker 3: my friends, and other days it was asking me to 496 00:27:24,119 --> 00:27:26,119 Speaker 3: make love, and other days it was asking me to 497 00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:30,199 Speaker 3: watch really bad TV. And other days it was asking 498 00:27:30,200 --> 00:27:33,680 Speaker 3: me to just look at the leaves in the trees 499 00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:37,119 Speaker 3: and not move for three hours and not even know 500 00:27:37,240 --> 00:27:40,520 Speaker 3: what I was doing, just be like just looking at nothing, 501 00:27:41,040 --> 00:27:43,440 Speaker 3: looking at looking at the waves, or looking at the sun. 502 00:27:44,640 --> 00:27:49,800 Speaker 3: And again, for me, it's always about what is right 503 00:27:49,920 --> 00:27:54,120 Speaker 3: right now? What is this moment asking of me? That's 504 00:27:54,160 --> 00:27:56,840 Speaker 3: how I got through That's how I got through pregnant 505 00:27:56,880 --> 00:27:59,439 Speaker 3: with cancer, That's how I got through all of the 506 00:27:59,480 --> 00:28:03,600 Speaker 3: situation with her, That's how I got through grief. It's 507 00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:06,320 Speaker 3: like what is right right now? And then some days 508 00:28:06,359 --> 00:28:08,320 Speaker 3: it's like I don't want to feel this right now. 509 00:28:08,760 --> 00:28:11,320 Speaker 3: So right now, I'm going to eat all of the 510 00:28:11,320 --> 00:28:13,000 Speaker 3: ice cream and eat all of the chocolate and just 511 00:28:13,080 --> 00:28:15,240 Speaker 3: you know, eat my feelings and make it all go away. 512 00:28:15,840 --> 00:28:17,760 Speaker 3: And then there's other times I'm like, no, now, I 513 00:28:17,800 --> 00:28:20,800 Speaker 3: can absolutely dive to the bottom of myself and I 514 00:28:20,840 --> 00:28:23,600 Speaker 3: can feel every single sceric of this feeling and I 515 00:28:23,800 --> 00:28:26,119 Speaker 3: wail to the heavens, and then on the other side 516 00:28:26,119 --> 00:28:30,400 Speaker 3: of that, i'd feel clean and clear. I'm very blessed, 517 00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:35,439 Speaker 3: I think to have had a life where I've learned 518 00:28:35,480 --> 00:28:40,959 Speaker 3: how to process my feelings and to trust my body. 519 00:28:41,040 --> 00:28:43,760 Speaker 3: I trust my body and I trust the movement of 520 00:28:43,760 --> 00:28:47,520 Speaker 3: my feelings through my body. So grieving has been huge 521 00:28:47,840 --> 00:28:50,320 Speaker 3: because it is. But the other thing for me is 522 00:28:50,360 --> 00:28:52,520 Speaker 3: that grief is the flip side of the coin of love. 523 00:28:53,520 --> 00:28:57,600 Speaker 3: And however much we love, that's how much we grieve 524 00:28:58,360 --> 00:29:01,479 Speaker 3: love that for that which is been lost. And so 525 00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:04,480 Speaker 3: the bigger our love, the more the grief hurts. But 526 00:29:04,560 --> 00:29:06,880 Speaker 3: the grief is that that says that I feel and 527 00:29:06,960 --> 00:29:08,760 Speaker 3: I'm alive, and I breathe and I love. 528 00:29:08,920 --> 00:29:11,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a positive, right, that's a positive. 529 00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:15,680 Speaker 3: Grief is a tribute. Yeah, it's like, oh wow, this 530 00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:18,480 Speaker 3: is really hurting. Because that's how big my heart is 531 00:29:18,560 --> 00:29:22,160 Speaker 3: right now. And to be able to map my heart 532 00:29:22,240 --> 00:29:25,880 Speaker 3: and see whoa like, my heart is so big, it 533 00:29:25,920 --> 00:29:28,200 Speaker 3: goes to that horizon, and my heart is so big, 534 00:29:28,240 --> 00:29:30,240 Speaker 3: it goes to those stars because that's how big my 535 00:29:30,280 --> 00:29:32,920 Speaker 3: grief is. But that is how big my heart is. 536 00:29:33,720 --> 00:29:37,160 Speaker 3: It stopped being for me a negative and just starts 537 00:29:37,280 --> 00:29:42,480 Speaker 3: being a part of being alive. Wow, and what a gift. 538 00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:45,480 Speaker 3: I think a lot of people who've lost will tell 539 00:29:45,560 --> 00:29:49,000 Speaker 3: you that part of the gift of losing someone is 540 00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:54,000 Speaker 3: the recognition that every breath is a gift. Every breath 541 00:29:54,000 --> 00:29:56,320 Speaker 3: that I have means that I'm alive, and that is 542 00:29:56,440 --> 00:29:59,160 Speaker 3: part of the gift of losing her. I'm just like, well, 543 00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:01,240 Speaker 3: there's a other one. I'm still alive. 544 00:30:10,960 --> 00:30:16,200 Speaker 2: The first Australian version of the reality show Alone pops up. 545 00:30:16,320 --> 00:30:18,400 Speaker 2: When that popped onto the scene, what was going through 546 00:30:18,440 --> 00:30:21,760 Speaker 2: your head and you were one of the ten contestants 547 00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:24,280 Speaker 2: on there? How did you go through that process to 548 00:30:24,800 --> 00:30:25,800 Speaker 2: become a contestant? 549 00:30:26,240 --> 00:30:31,760 Speaker 3: It was really interesting because I was very judgmental about 550 00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:35,680 Speaker 3: survival shows. I was like, they're all fake. I'm not 551 00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:38,640 Speaker 3: interested in reality shows. The people have been telling me 552 00:30:38,720 --> 00:30:42,360 Speaker 3: for like eight years to watch alone. No, no, this 553 00:30:42,480 --> 00:30:44,840 Speaker 3: is different. I'm like, yeah, yeah, no it's not. It's 554 00:30:44,880 --> 00:30:50,160 Speaker 3: all reality. Yeah right. And it wasn't long after the pandemic, 555 00:30:50,240 --> 00:30:52,520 Speaker 3: I think, and I was just kind of doom scrolling 556 00:30:52,560 --> 00:30:55,240 Speaker 3: on Netflix, going oh, there's that alone thing. I guess 557 00:30:55,600 --> 00:30:58,600 Speaker 3: someone had just said something. Oh yeah, I'll have a look, 558 00:30:59,240 --> 00:31:01,680 Speaker 3: And so I had a look book and very quickly 559 00:31:01,760 --> 00:31:06,560 Speaker 3: went all, oh, this is real. There is no film 560 00:31:06,640 --> 00:31:09,840 Speaker 3: crew and it is real. It's obviously real. This is 561 00:31:09,880 --> 00:31:13,280 Speaker 3: not scripted. There are no producers. I get it. And 562 00:31:13,560 --> 00:31:16,680 Speaker 3: so I started binging and shouting at the TV and 563 00:31:16,720 --> 00:31:19,400 Speaker 3: giving advice and doing all the things that everyone does 564 00:31:19,440 --> 00:31:22,840 Speaker 3: when they watch alone. And then I started to have 565 00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:25,720 Speaker 3: the thought of what would I do if that was me? 566 00:31:26,200 --> 00:31:28,880 Speaker 3: Because it was in the Northern hemisphere. I was like, well, 567 00:31:29,040 --> 00:31:31,040 Speaker 3: you've got to be an American citizen and I'm not. 568 00:31:31,160 --> 00:31:34,560 Speaker 3: And it's all thems because the thing is, it takes 569 00:31:34,600 --> 00:31:37,760 Speaker 3: about I would say it takes two years to learn 570 00:31:37,800 --> 00:31:40,440 Speaker 3: an ecosystem well enough to even be able to begin 571 00:31:40,520 --> 00:31:46,160 Speaker 3: to spit properly. And the North American ecosystem I didn't. 572 00:31:46,560 --> 00:31:49,040 Speaker 3: I mean, I've never survived in that. So for me, 573 00:31:49,400 --> 00:31:52,640 Speaker 3: the point was moove. And then about two weeks after 574 00:31:52,880 --> 00:31:57,920 Speaker 3: I really started binging, mine box blew up with people saying, Gina, 575 00:31:58,160 --> 00:32:03,840 Speaker 3: it's alone, It's like loans Fred. And because it had 576 00:32:03,880 --> 00:32:07,400 Speaker 3: already just taken rooting me and I was putting myself 577 00:32:07,440 --> 00:32:10,240 Speaker 3: always like asking these questions what would I do? As 578 00:32:10,280 --> 00:32:13,040 Speaker 3: soon as turned up in my inbox, I was like, oh, well, 579 00:32:13,080 --> 00:32:15,080 Speaker 3: I have to do it. It was it wasn't even 580 00:32:15,080 --> 00:32:17,880 Speaker 3: a question. I will say that it was choiceless. There 581 00:32:18,080 --> 00:32:23,360 Speaker 3: was no choice. It was that instinctive. This is the thing, 582 00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:27,520 Speaker 3: it is the only thing, It is the everything, and 583 00:32:27,600 --> 00:32:32,760 Speaker 3: nothing else will exist until I am there, And and 584 00:32:34,080 --> 00:32:36,400 Speaker 3: it was it was like that. I think I drove 585 00:32:36,600 --> 00:32:39,600 Speaker 3: my friends in same Actually, I think I drove my 586 00:32:39,640 --> 00:32:43,840 Speaker 3: friends enough because I was planning shelters and I was 587 00:32:43,880 --> 00:32:47,120 Speaker 3: talking about fishing, and I started preparing before I applied. 588 00:32:47,440 --> 00:32:50,280 Speaker 3: I gave myself a whole three month plan of preparation 589 00:32:50,360 --> 00:32:52,360 Speaker 3: before i'd even applied, and I started it. 590 00:32:52,400 --> 00:32:57,120 Speaker 2: I was like, yep, yeah, and you started, Gina, and 591 00:32:57,920 --> 00:33:00,920 Speaker 2: you obviously come out on top and you win this. 592 00:33:01,000 --> 00:33:06,320 Speaker 2: But did that process of being out, you know, by yourself, 593 00:33:06,360 --> 00:33:12,160 Speaker 2: with your own thought process connected to mother nature grounded 594 00:33:12,200 --> 00:33:16,000 Speaker 2: to the planet, you know, walking around without no shoes, 595 00:33:16,040 --> 00:33:18,520 Speaker 2: which I know that you still do nowadays. You know, 596 00:33:18,600 --> 00:33:22,240 Speaker 2: did those sixty seven days of you being completed, did 597 00:33:22,280 --> 00:33:26,120 Speaker 2: that help you process your grief? And did you really 598 00:33:26,240 --> 00:33:28,520 Speaker 2: use that as a platform to do that. 599 00:33:28,560 --> 00:33:34,440 Speaker 3: It's a great question. So those seven days were a 600 00:33:34,600 --> 00:33:43,920 Speaker 3: quest and a rage every First Nations culture, every indigenous culture, 601 00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:48,480 Speaker 3: every how to gather a culture ceremonies of transformation where 602 00:33:48,520 --> 00:33:51,640 Speaker 3: people go out into the wilderness on their own as 603 00:33:51,720 --> 00:33:56,680 Speaker 3: fast and talk to nature. It's part of our birthright. 604 00:33:57,680 --> 00:34:03,120 Speaker 3: And I have myself out on quite a few rites 605 00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:06,360 Speaker 3: of passage that are you know, that are based in 606 00:34:06,600 --> 00:34:08,879 Speaker 3: this kind of a process, in kind of this kind 607 00:34:08,920 --> 00:34:12,560 Speaker 3: of a ceremony. But to go out for sixty seven 608 00:34:12,680 --> 00:34:16,000 Speaker 3: days is a quest unlike anything else that I had 609 00:34:16,080 --> 00:34:20,239 Speaker 3: ever done. And I went out there and I made 610 00:34:20,320 --> 00:34:23,760 Speaker 3: a vow of veracity. I made a vow to tell 611 00:34:23,800 --> 00:34:28,080 Speaker 3: the truth no matter what. The whole cameras, you know, 612 00:34:28,200 --> 00:34:32,000 Speaker 3: having cameras and filming myself that this would just be 613 00:34:32,560 --> 00:34:37,560 Speaker 3: like a little portal. But I wasn't going to second guess. 614 00:34:37,560 --> 00:34:39,680 Speaker 3: I wasn't going to filter. I was going to have 615 00:34:39,760 --> 00:34:43,120 Speaker 3: the experience as if the cameras weren't there. And what 616 00:34:43,160 --> 00:34:48,160 Speaker 3: that meant was that every day I would get up 617 00:34:48,160 --> 00:34:53,040 Speaker 3: and I would ask three questions, ask what are my needs? 618 00:34:53,440 --> 00:34:56,839 Speaker 3: What resources do I have to meet those needs? And 619 00:34:57,040 --> 00:34:59,600 Speaker 3: how much energy do I have left over to make art? 620 00:35:00,719 --> 00:35:03,680 Speaker 3: And that was it. That was that was pretty much 621 00:35:03,880 --> 00:35:06,560 Speaker 3: in that moment. And again, like I have done my 622 00:35:06,600 --> 00:35:11,160 Speaker 3: whole life, what's this moment asking of me? And because 623 00:35:11,560 --> 00:35:14,239 Speaker 3: I was starving and I was freezing. 624 00:35:13,800 --> 00:35:16,800 Speaker 5: And I was surviving, there wasn't a lot of energy 625 00:35:16,840 --> 00:35:21,160 Speaker 5: available and I had to make sure my shelter was 626 00:35:21,239 --> 00:35:23,839 Speaker 5: warm enough so I could live calories so I didn't 627 00:35:23,880 --> 00:35:25,200 Speaker 5: have to go out and find calories. 628 00:35:25,200 --> 00:35:29,080 Speaker 3: I had to conserve heat. What are my needs? You know? 629 00:35:29,120 --> 00:35:34,520 Speaker 3: There were all these very very powerful and poignant tasks, 630 00:35:34,600 --> 00:35:38,400 Speaker 3: but they were also incredibly simple. I didn't have to 631 00:35:38,480 --> 00:35:42,120 Speaker 3: think about what anybody else thought of me. I didn't 632 00:35:42,160 --> 00:35:44,640 Speaker 3: like so many of the hamsters that go around and 633 00:35:44,680 --> 00:35:49,920 Speaker 3: around in our minds as modern humans, are about externals 634 00:35:49,960 --> 00:35:54,360 Speaker 3: impacting on us, or ways that our power is outsourced, 635 00:35:55,080 --> 00:35:59,239 Speaker 3: and yeah, and our authority is outsourced, and we live 636 00:35:59,280 --> 00:36:01,279 Speaker 3: in a culture that tells us that everything that we 637 00:36:01,320 --> 00:36:03,640 Speaker 3: do is wrong, that we're not enough that we should 638 00:36:03,680 --> 00:36:08,280 Speaker 3: be doing something differently. Out there, all that's gone gone 639 00:36:08,880 --> 00:36:12,239 Speaker 3: just doesn't even exist. And so then this purity of 640 00:36:12,360 --> 00:36:16,719 Speaker 3: human experience got to rise up, and I got to 641 00:36:16,880 --> 00:36:21,040 Speaker 3: interrupt in this very simple way with nature and with myself. 642 00:36:21,880 --> 00:36:26,279 Speaker 3: So when it came to grief, grief would come, and 643 00:36:26,280 --> 00:36:27,160 Speaker 3: then grief would go. 644 00:36:27,920 --> 00:36:30,799 Speaker 2: There's a moment that went viral, and I've seen the 645 00:36:30,880 --> 00:36:35,640 Speaker 2: clip and car talk about are powerful. And I use 646 00:36:35,719 --> 00:36:39,719 Speaker 2: the word powerful because you know, some people can use heartbreaking, 647 00:36:39,880 --> 00:36:44,040 Speaker 2: some people can use but it was such a powerful clip. 648 00:36:44,640 --> 00:36:47,040 Speaker 2: It almost felt that you were in your element. I 649 00:36:47,080 --> 00:36:48,840 Speaker 2: know it must have been such a hard thing to do, 650 00:36:48,960 --> 00:36:50,680 Speaker 2: But for me, when I looked at it, I thought, 651 00:36:51,120 --> 00:36:54,759 Speaker 2: she's in her she's present, She's in her element now 652 00:36:54,800 --> 00:36:56,719 Speaker 2: right now. You know a lot of people might go, ah, 653 00:36:56,719 --> 00:36:58,799 Speaker 2: she's suffering, and I saw the flip side to it. 654 00:36:58,880 --> 00:37:01,719 Speaker 2: I was like, she is the all power and all 655 00:37:02,560 --> 00:37:06,760 Speaker 2: She's just being herself and that must be really really powerful. 656 00:37:06,800 --> 00:37:08,480 Speaker 2: And I don't know if I've got that wrong. I've 657 00:37:08,480 --> 00:37:11,399 Speaker 2: got that right, but I see a lot of people 658 00:37:11,600 --> 00:37:13,759 Speaker 2: see the opposite side to it. I didn't see that. 659 00:37:13,800 --> 00:37:16,799 Speaker 2: I was just like that gave me inspiration. 660 00:37:18,920 --> 00:37:22,759 Speaker 3: Oh thank you. That's really that's really lovely to hear. 661 00:37:22,960 --> 00:37:28,480 Speaker 3: And it's spot on because I have been grieving very 662 00:37:28,560 --> 00:37:35,399 Speaker 3: consciously for so long. For me, it's not suffering. It's 663 00:37:35,440 --> 00:37:36,040 Speaker 3: a storm. 664 00:37:36,200 --> 00:37:38,600 Speaker 2: It's the purest form of yourself. Then I saw the 665 00:37:38,640 --> 00:37:39,640 Speaker 2: purest form of you. 666 00:37:40,360 --> 00:37:43,920 Speaker 3: Yes. Yeah, it is a storm of emotion and it 667 00:37:43,960 --> 00:37:46,359 Speaker 3: comes and it goes. And if I fight it, and 668 00:37:46,400 --> 00:37:50,800 Speaker 3: if I hold it away, then that tension that's suffering. 669 00:37:51,320 --> 00:37:53,279 Speaker 3: Because the thing is, I think I've done it so 670 00:37:53,400 --> 00:37:56,120 Speaker 3: much now I know it's going to end. I think 671 00:37:56,160 --> 00:37:59,200 Speaker 3: that what happens with people is stuff comes and we go, 672 00:37:59,280 --> 00:38:01,120 Speaker 3: Oh my god. If I go into this, I'm never 673 00:38:01,160 --> 00:38:03,799 Speaker 3: going to come out. If I start crying now, I'm 674 00:38:03,800 --> 00:38:06,360 Speaker 3: never going to stop. If I start raging now, I 675 00:38:06,360 --> 00:38:10,239 Speaker 3: am going to burn the world. Whereas my experience is 676 00:38:10,320 --> 00:38:15,000 Speaker 3: that that emotions come in waves, and so it will 677 00:38:15,120 --> 00:38:17,680 Speaker 3: start and it will build. And if I catch that wave, 678 00:38:17,920 --> 00:38:20,640 Speaker 3: if I you know, if I fight a wave, then 679 00:38:20,640 --> 00:38:22,440 Speaker 3: it's got to smashed me and it's going to break me. 680 00:38:22,480 --> 00:38:25,399 Speaker 3: But if I surf that wave, if I if I 681 00:38:25,480 --> 00:38:28,319 Speaker 3: let myself be fluid and pliable in that wave, then 682 00:38:28,640 --> 00:38:30,840 Speaker 3: you know, I might still get dumped, but that's okay. 683 00:38:30,920 --> 00:38:32,759 Speaker 3: I just hold my breath and get tumbled and then 684 00:38:32,800 --> 00:38:37,600 Speaker 3: come for the surface. And that grief storm was it 685 00:38:37,640 --> 00:38:42,440 Speaker 3: was her birthday. It was her birthday, and I, you know, 686 00:38:42,560 --> 00:38:45,040 Speaker 3: I made a fire and I didn't know that that 687 00:38:45,160 --> 00:38:48,040 Speaker 3: grief storm was going to come until it did. And 688 00:38:48,080 --> 00:38:50,279 Speaker 3: there was one moment when I had the cameras, I'm like, 689 00:38:50,320 --> 00:38:52,520 Speaker 3: am I going to leave this on? And it wasn't 690 00:38:52,520 --> 00:38:54,160 Speaker 3: even a question, that's like, of course I'm going to 691 00:38:54,239 --> 00:38:56,640 Speaker 3: leave this on. Of course, I said, vow of veracity, 692 00:38:56,680 --> 00:38:58,319 Speaker 3: I'm going to tell the truth. And this is a 693 00:38:58,400 --> 00:39:02,080 Speaker 3: human truth. This is a poignant and powerful and archetypal 694 00:39:02,160 --> 00:39:03,760 Speaker 3: human truth. This is grief. 695 00:39:04,239 --> 00:39:07,879 Speaker 2: It was such a such a powerful moment. And once 696 00:39:07,920 --> 00:39:12,319 Speaker 2: you rode that emotional wave, will like you say, did 697 00:39:12,360 --> 00:39:13,879 Speaker 2: it make you feel better? Did it? 698 00:39:13,960 --> 00:39:14,319 Speaker 3: Did it? 699 00:39:14,400 --> 00:39:17,400 Speaker 2: Did it then allow you just to to move on 700 00:39:17,480 --> 00:39:19,960 Speaker 2: to the next emotional wave? How did that make you 701 00:39:19,960 --> 00:39:20,800 Speaker 2: feel in that moment? 702 00:39:21,560 --> 00:39:24,800 Speaker 3: Yes? Well, the thing that I think, I'm really grateful 703 00:39:24,800 --> 00:39:28,120 Speaker 3: that SBS and ITV allowed the edit that they did 704 00:39:28,160 --> 00:39:34,279 Speaker 3: in that moment because the rawness of this woman keening 705 00:39:34,560 --> 00:39:37,960 Speaker 3: beside a fire for her lost child. I you know, 706 00:39:38,040 --> 00:39:40,719 Speaker 3: It would be very easy to make that clickbait. It 707 00:39:40,760 --> 00:39:43,400 Speaker 3: would be very easy to just turn up the volume 708 00:39:43,440 --> 00:39:46,040 Speaker 3: on that and just leave it in the tragedy and 709 00:39:46,200 --> 00:39:49,719 Speaker 3: leave it in what looks like suffering. But I'm so 710 00:39:49,800 --> 00:39:52,920 Speaker 3: grateful because what they did was then they showed me 711 00:39:53,000 --> 00:39:56,080 Speaker 3: the next day when I was leaning against a log 712 00:39:56,239 --> 00:40:02,000 Speaker 3: and I was in gratitude. I was so so peaceful 713 00:40:02,120 --> 00:40:04,840 Speaker 3: and grateful, and it wasn't fake. You could see it. 714 00:40:04,880 --> 00:40:07,200 Speaker 3: You could see that this is what it's like. You know, 715 00:40:07,239 --> 00:40:10,840 Speaker 3: when there's a storm, and then afterwards, the sun comes 716 00:40:10,840 --> 00:40:13,719 Speaker 3: out and you go outside and the bush smells amazing, 717 00:40:13,760 --> 00:40:16,760 Speaker 3: and the beach is washing and the birds are all singing, 718 00:40:16,920 --> 00:40:22,040 Speaker 3: and you needed that storm to clean out everything, and 719 00:40:22,120 --> 00:40:26,120 Speaker 3: now everything feels brand new. That's the next day, and 720 00:40:26,160 --> 00:40:28,759 Speaker 3: you see it. And I'm so glad that they showed that, 721 00:40:28,840 --> 00:40:33,279 Speaker 3: because to me, there is an intelligence in allowing emotions 722 00:40:33,280 --> 00:40:36,120 Speaker 3: to move, but you've never seen it. It can be 723 00:40:36,200 --> 00:40:38,920 Speaker 3: like I can't do that. But I have people who 724 00:40:39,000 --> 00:40:41,359 Speaker 3: stopped me all the time in the street and say 725 00:40:41,480 --> 00:40:45,520 Speaker 3: thank you so much for showing your grief, And it's 726 00:40:45,600 --> 00:40:48,799 Speaker 3: helped me to be able to understand and process and 727 00:40:48,840 --> 00:40:52,120 Speaker 3: not be afraid of my own, which for me, it's 728 00:40:52,120 --> 00:40:54,319 Speaker 3: that purpose beyond self Like I went out there on 729 00:40:54,360 --> 00:40:58,200 Speaker 3: a lone Australia too, you know, for a million different reasons. 730 00:40:58,239 --> 00:41:02,640 Speaker 3: But ultimately, ultimately it wasn't about me. I was a placeholder, 731 00:41:02,920 --> 00:41:04,880 Speaker 3: you know. I got to tell a story that I 732 00:41:04,920 --> 00:41:09,080 Speaker 3: think needs to be told about nature, connection, about being 733 00:41:09,120 --> 00:41:12,160 Speaker 3: a part of nature rather than apart from nature. But 734 00:41:12,280 --> 00:41:15,319 Speaker 3: ultimately that story is not about me. It's just I 735 00:41:15,400 --> 00:41:17,719 Speaker 3: happened to be a vehicle for that story to be told. 736 00:41:17,760 --> 00:41:20,200 Speaker 3: And I think a part of that was the being 737 00:41:20,239 --> 00:41:23,040 Speaker 3: able to show, well, this is how it can actually 738 00:41:23,280 --> 00:41:26,040 Speaker 3: even though it's the hardest thing, it can also be poetry. 739 00:41:26,520 --> 00:41:29,160 Speaker 3: And to have people come up and tell me that 740 00:41:29,280 --> 00:41:32,080 Speaker 3: means that there's a part of that kind of does 741 00:41:32,160 --> 00:41:35,640 Speaker 3: okay good. I kind of did my job what I 742 00:41:35,719 --> 00:41:38,760 Speaker 3: needed to do and set it free into the world. 743 00:41:39,360 --> 00:41:42,359 Speaker 2: Do you know what, along with millions of other people. 744 00:41:42,400 --> 00:41:45,160 Speaker 2: I'm so glad that you did. So since the show 745 00:41:46,239 --> 00:41:48,319 Speaker 2: you're running programs now, could just talk to me about 746 00:41:48,320 --> 00:41:50,680 Speaker 2: the programs that you're doing, and also just quickly about 747 00:41:50,920 --> 00:41:54,960 Speaker 2: about your life off grid. You know, how interesting is 748 00:41:55,000 --> 00:42:00,480 Speaker 2: it and how nourishing is it, and how live eating 749 00:42:00,560 --> 00:42:00,799 Speaker 2: is it. 750 00:42:01,320 --> 00:42:06,080 Speaker 3: Living off grid is amazing. But at the moment, since alone, 751 00:42:06,520 --> 00:42:10,920 Speaker 3: I have had my life turn so completely upside down 752 00:42:11,400 --> 00:42:13,560 Speaker 3: that I'm not in the shack at the moment. I 753 00:42:13,560 --> 00:42:15,680 Speaker 3: have a seven meter bus that is my home and 754 00:42:15,680 --> 00:42:18,120 Speaker 3: that I kind of go up and down the coast in. 755 00:42:18,680 --> 00:42:22,200 Speaker 3: But I've ended up writing a book, and I've written 756 00:42:22,239 --> 00:42:25,680 Speaker 3: a memoir and it comes out on October two in Australia. 757 00:42:25,880 --> 00:42:28,759 Speaker 3: And as a result of that, I am involved in 758 00:42:28,880 --> 00:42:33,200 Speaker 3: all of this modern stuff. I'm involved in publishing, I'm 759 00:42:33,239 --> 00:42:37,359 Speaker 3: involved in designing covers, I'm involved in you know, there's 760 00:42:37,360 --> 00:42:38,480 Speaker 3: a book tour coming up. 761 00:42:38,640 --> 00:42:39,720 Speaker 2: What's the name of your book. 762 00:42:40,000 --> 00:42:42,760 Speaker 3: It's called We Are the Stars, and it's a memoir 763 00:42:43,080 --> 00:42:49,080 Speaker 3: and it's an absolute magic carpet ride. It's a roller coaster. 764 00:42:49,200 --> 00:42:53,680 Speaker 3: It's like, you know, basically, you've taken me through the 765 00:42:53,719 --> 00:42:55,759 Speaker 3: elements of so much of my life, and it's got 766 00:42:55,800 --> 00:42:59,080 Speaker 3: all of that. It's got the grittiest and the realist 767 00:42:59,080 --> 00:43:01,560 Speaker 3: and the raw is the most silly, the most embarrassing, 768 00:43:01,600 --> 00:43:05,400 Speaker 3: the most hum It's got all the possible flavors of 769 00:43:05,440 --> 00:43:05,920 Speaker 3: a human. 770 00:43:06,160 --> 00:43:07,240 Speaker 2: I want to sign copy. 771 00:43:07,400 --> 00:43:09,799 Speaker 3: I will send you assigned copy. I would love to 772 00:43:09,840 --> 00:43:13,160 Speaker 3: send you assigned. Yes, best, Yeah. 773 00:43:13,360 --> 00:43:15,879 Speaker 2: And your programs. Talk to me about your programs as well. 774 00:43:15,960 --> 00:43:20,839 Speaker 3: Okay, so the programs there, it's rewilding, and a lot 775 00:43:20,840 --> 00:43:24,279 Speaker 3: of people like what's rewilding. Well, rewilding is basically just 776 00:43:24,480 --> 00:43:31,040 Speaker 3: learning how to exist in relationship with nature using ancestral 777 00:43:31,120 --> 00:43:34,000 Speaker 3: living skills, like the skills that are that are encoded 778 00:43:34,040 --> 00:43:36,439 Speaker 3: in all of our DNA. You know, it doesn't matter 779 00:43:36,840 --> 00:43:40,359 Speaker 3: what your heritage. Three hundred and fifty thousand years we've 780 00:43:40,400 --> 00:43:43,000 Speaker 3: been Homo sapiens, and three hundred and forty thousand of 781 00:43:43,040 --> 00:43:45,680 Speaker 3: those years we were how to gatherers. It's all of us, 782 00:43:45,840 --> 00:43:49,200 Speaker 3: and we only lived and existed by being in connection 783 00:43:49,320 --> 00:43:53,280 Speaker 3: with nature and with each other and by being able 784 00:43:53,320 --> 00:43:56,520 Speaker 3: to live in harmony. Without that, we wouldn't have made 785 00:43:56,560 --> 00:43:57,400 Speaker 3: it as a species. 786 00:43:57,440 --> 00:43:59,920 Speaker 2: I love that encoded in our DNA. 787 00:44:00,400 --> 00:44:05,440 Speaker 3: And what we see is that our modernity is like 788 00:44:05,520 --> 00:44:09,000 Speaker 3: this barrier that we think is really like hard, but 789 00:44:09,200 --> 00:44:11,760 Speaker 3: it's very permeable and it doesn't take much to scratch 790 00:44:11,760 --> 00:44:14,959 Speaker 3: it off. And so if you take people and put 791 00:44:15,000 --> 00:44:20,200 Speaker 3: them into nature connection situations very very very quickly, they 792 00:44:20,239 --> 00:44:24,800 Speaker 3: start to remember how to be at home in the wild, 793 00:44:25,000 --> 00:44:27,200 Speaker 3: like it doesn't take much. It's like there's a part 794 00:44:27,280 --> 00:44:29,920 Speaker 3: of all of us inside that is going, come on, 795 00:44:30,200 --> 00:44:32,440 Speaker 3: let me out, let me out. And so, you know, 796 00:44:32,520 --> 00:44:35,160 Speaker 3: it starts with maybe just taking off your shoes and 797 00:44:35,200 --> 00:44:37,719 Speaker 3: walking in the grass, or leaning against a tree, or 798 00:44:37,800 --> 00:44:41,160 Speaker 3: turning off your phone, or looking at a horizon and 799 00:44:41,200 --> 00:44:43,959 Speaker 3: seeing that infinite edge, or letting your eyes go soft 800 00:44:44,000 --> 00:44:47,480 Speaker 3: and listening to the birds. All of these things start 801 00:44:47,520 --> 00:44:50,440 Speaker 3: to quieten it so that we start to get a 802 00:44:50,480 --> 00:44:53,839 Speaker 3: sense of ourselves as part of the interconnected web of life, 803 00:44:54,360 --> 00:45:00,279 Speaker 3: and rewilding is how we learn and dive into those 804 00:45:00,280 --> 00:45:04,800 Speaker 3: skills that are going to help us survive and thrive 805 00:45:04,920 --> 00:45:08,360 Speaker 3: and love and live and understand the song of the bush, 806 00:45:08,400 --> 00:45:09,320 Speaker 3: the song of nature. 807 00:45:09,719 --> 00:45:12,400 Speaker 2: Wow, do you know what that is? Amazing? It's almost 808 00:45:12,600 --> 00:45:15,880 Speaker 2: it's almost a program of the purest form of life. 809 00:45:16,239 --> 00:45:20,920 Speaker 2: It's been amazing chatting to you. Honestly, the energy that 810 00:45:20,960 --> 00:45:25,080 Speaker 2: I've got from this talk, the knowledge, the just the 811 00:45:25,719 --> 00:45:29,480 Speaker 2: freedom of just being able to, you know, connect with myself, 812 00:45:29,600 --> 00:45:33,279 Speaker 2: connect with my emotions and go with the flow is 813 00:45:33,320 --> 00:45:35,440 Speaker 2: certainly something that I have to remind myself to do 814 00:45:35,520 --> 00:45:38,120 Speaker 2: every now and then, because life, you know, sort of 815 00:45:38,200 --> 00:45:40,560 Speaker 2: takes you away in a certain direction. But I'm very 816 00:45:40,640 --> 00:45:43,279 Speaker 2: much connected in that way as well. But I think 817 00:45:43,320 --> 00:45:44,719 Speaker 2: we all need to do it a little bit more. 818 00:45:44,760 --> 00:45:46,560 Speaker 2: But Gina, thank you ever so much for coming on 819 00:45:46,600 --> 00:45:50,560 Speaker 2: my podcast, head Game. I love you millions, and listen, 820 00:45:50,640 --> 00:45:53,800 Speaker 2: we are definitely hooking up when I come to OZ 821 00:45:54,160 --> 00:45:55,600 Speaker 2: and don't forget that signbook for me. 822 00:45:56,480 --> 00:45:58,400 Speaker 3: I want to get that sign book. And I'm giving 823 00:45:58,440 --> 00:46:02,319 Speaker 3: you the biggest squeeze through this screen right now. I'm 824 00:46:02,320 --> 00:46:05,520 Speaker 3: giving you a proper, proper, proper, proper squeeze from my 825 00:46:05,600 --> 00:46:06,600 Speaker 3: bones in my heart. 826 00:46:06,840 --> 00:46:08,680 Speaker 2: I'm taking it. I'm taking it. 827 00:46:08,760 --> 00:46:10,880 Speaker 3: Okay, Bye, Love Gina. 828 00:46:11,000 --> 00:46:14,640 Speaker 2: Chicks memoir We Are the Stars is out now. I'll 829 00:46:14,719 --> 00:46:18,200 Speaker 2: lead the details in the show notes. Thank you so 830 00:46:18,280 --> 00:46:21,840 Speaker 2: much for joining me on Headgame. If you enjoyed this episode, 831 00:46:22,000 --> 00:46:24,800 Speaker 2: make sure you're subscribed so you don't miss any of 832 00:46:24,840 --> 00:46:28,800 Speaker 2: our incredible stories and leave me a review wherever you're listening. 833 00:46:29,760 --> 00:46:32,640 Speaker 2: I'm Matt Middleton. Catch you again next time.