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Speaker 1: From The Australian. Here's what's on the front. I'm Claire Harvey.

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Speaker 1: It's Monday, March seventeen, twenty twenty five. There's something sinister

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Speaker 1: on the sonar. The Navy has hit a major problem

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Speaker 1: with planned upgrades to the Collins class submarines they're relying

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Speaker 1: on until nuclear subs come online in coming decades. That

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Speaker 1: means we could face a gap with no undersea defenses.

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Speaker 1: That's an exclusive live now at the Australian dot Com Doreyu.

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Speaker 1: They say money can't buy happiness, and for one of

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Speaker 1: Australia's wealthiest families, it seems to be causing more problems

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Speaker 1: than it solves. Mining billionaire Gina Reinhart in legal dispute

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Speaker 1: with several of her own children. Her son John Hancock,

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Speaker 1: has given an interview to The Australian's Richest to fifty

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Speaker 1: list in which he's critiqued his mum's investment decision making

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Speaker 1: and said they no longer speak today. The extraordinary drama

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Speaker 1: behind the scenes of the Hancock Reinhart dynasty. Perry Williams

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Speaker 1: is The Australian's chief business correspondent and we're starting one

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Speaker 1: of my favorite periods of the year. It's the build

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Speaker 1: up to the publication of the Richest to fifty list

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Speaker 1: of Australia's richest and most powerful people for twenty twenty five.

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Speaker 1: It's coming out on Friday, but we've got one of

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Speaker 1: Perry's stories from that magazine that we're going to talk

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Speaker 1: about today. Perry, we're all used to the trope that

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Speaker 1: money doesn't necessarily make you happy, and it certainly doesn't

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Speaker 1: necessarily make your family happy.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's been a really sort of troubled dynasty. I

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Speaker 2: guess you could say John actually sort of opened up

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Speaker 2: a little bit about when he was a kid and

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Speaker 2: the time he spent with his grandfather really interestingly sort

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Speaker 2: of teaching him like the building blocks of mining and

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Speaker 2: how they sort of went out to the wild western Pilborough.

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Speaker 2: Obviously the tenements which built the family's fortune, but quite

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Speaker 2: quickly there's also the sort of overlay of the troubled

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Speaker 2: relationship with his mother. It was just a really fascinating

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Speaker 2: insight into the privilege of growing up a Reinhardt and

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Speaker 2: a Hancock when it comes to John, but also perhaps

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Speaker 2: the sort of curse of how the dynasties worked out.

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Speaker 1: He seemed to indicate that there really is no relationship

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Speaker 1: anymore between him and his mum. Did you get the

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Speaker 1: sense that that's because of the legal action that's underway

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Speaker 1: over that trust that the grandfather set up, or is

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Speaker 1: it deeper than that.

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Speaker 2: I actually didn't know the answer to that before I

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Speaker 2: interviewed him, so I was quite upfront with him that

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Speaker 2: we ken where we spoke. It was actually his daughter's

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Speaker 2: eighteenth birthday, and you know, a bit of a milestone

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Speaker 2: for any family, and I said to him, Look, is

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Speaker 2: there any chance your mother might attend or at least

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Speaker 2: a phone call and know He was quite honest about

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Speaker 2: the fact that there was no relationship with either him

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Speaker 2: and his wife or or the kids the family in general. Look,

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Speaker 2: I think the court process has really strained things. I

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Speaker 2: think some of the commentary through that court process from

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Speaker 2: his mother about his children has probably been a sort

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Speaker 2: of potential sort of breaking points.

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Speaker 3: This legal action was launched in September by her children.

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Speaker 3: In the last few months have just been her efforts

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Speaker 3: to try to keep it out of court. She had

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Speaker 3: wanted it in private mediation. That's now not going to

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Speaker 3: be the case. It will be heard in front of

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Speaker 3: the public, so will be eagerly awaited, no doubt.

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Speaker 2: Having said all that, he does hold out some hope

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Speaker 2: that perhaps down the line might be able to have

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Speaker 2: a normal family situation, but it's probably hard to see

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Speaker 2: it being resolved until there's some finality with the court.

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Speaker 1: Case coming up. John Hancock talks a big game about

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Speaker 1: his mother's investment decisions, So how do his investments stack

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Speaker 1: up legal troubles aside? John Hancock, who'll turn fifty next year,

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Speaker 1: is a mining investor in his own right, and he's

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Speaker 1: frank in his assessment of his mother's financial moves. Here's

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Speaker 1: Perry Williams.

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Speaker 2: We started off talking about his childhood as upbringing, but

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Speaker 2: the bulk of the interview, it's fair to say, was

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Speaker 2: talking about his mother's what he referred to as toilet flushes.

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Speaker 2: These are essentially Gena Reinhart's investments across a really broad

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Speaker 2: range of mining and resources stocks, and John took st

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Speaker 2: great delight in walking me through quite a few of

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Speaker 2: the misses which he saw as potentially underscoring her kind

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Speaker 2: of checked track record when it comes to her fortune.

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Speaker 1: Lang Hancock was, of course a real pioneer of iron

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Speaker 1: ore development in Australia. He handed that business or parts

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Speaker 1: of it on to his daughter, Gina. But she has

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Speaker 1: always said that the incredibly successful business that she now

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Speaker 1: sits atop is of her own making, that she made

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Speaker 1: this money. What does her son say about that?

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Speaker 2: Look, John was careful with his descriptions of the family fortune.

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Speaker 2: It's fair to say, I think talking to people in

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Speaker 2: the industry, Yes, she was given a pretty incredible platform.

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Speaker 2: Anyone who knows the pilbur and wa recognizes that Hancock

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Speaker 2: Prospecting sits on some you know, pretty incredible iron ore tenements,

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Speaker 2: roy Hill being the best of them. But look, she

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Speaker 2: was given a great platform. But to give her credit,

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Speaker 2: she's also developed a pretty successful iron ore company right

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Speaker 2: up there, obviously with PHP and Rio Tinto. So yeah,

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Speaker 2: I think it depends a little bit on who you

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Speaker 2: talk to. And John was a little bit careful not

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Speaker 2: to weigh into that.

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Speaker 1: What he did say, though, was that although that part

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Speaker 1: of the business, the iron ore business, is successful, the

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Speaker 1: part that was initially envisaged by his grandfather, that some

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Speaker 1: of the investments that his mother has made have not

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Speaker 1: gone so well. What was he talking about?

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Speaker 2: As it turns out, John's got his own investment fund

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Speaker 2: in mining, and it's actually follows quite similar territory to

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Speaker 2: his mother's interests. So you know, rare Earth's you know,

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Speaker 2: a bit of a sort of buzz word at the

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Speaker 2: moment in mining copper, for instance, and actually interestingly uranium

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Speaker 2: and kind of more broadly nuclear. They've actually got some

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Speaker 2: quite similar sort of investment by years. And his takeaway

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Speaker 2: is that, yes, she's got the investment money to be

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Speaker 2: a really powerful figure, but those bets haven't necessarily stacked

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Speaker 2: up or the jury is still out on how they'll

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Speaker 2: go in the long term.

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Speaker 1: And what about him as an investor, Perry He says

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Speaker 1: that royalties from the family business really don't even pay

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Speaker 1: his legal bills, let alone pay for the yacht and

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Speaker 1: the home in Whistler. He lives the life of an

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Speaker 1: extremely wealthy person, doesn't He's doing pretty well?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yet, look he does. He said a few things

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Speaker 2: with a sort of smile on his face around the

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Speaker 2: legal bills and so on. So look, it's not a

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Speaker 2: bad life, but he's done quite well in terms of

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Speaker 2: his investments. Vulcan in particular was something he got into early.

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Speaker 2: So it's a lithium company which has kind of got

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Speaker 2: a a slightly different technology compared to others in the market,

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Speaker 2: and he bet on that quite early and that provided

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Speaker 2: huge returns to him. Albeit I think has overall fun

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Speaker 2: got to about one hundred million dollars. His mother's investments

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Speaker 2: are obviously in the billions, so it's a relative. You know,

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Speaker 2: there've been others that they haven't been so great, but

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Speaker 2: generally he's still up and prides himself on having quite

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Speaker 2: a keen eye for the next big thing in mining

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Speaker 2: in particular.

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Speaker 1: What do you think was John Hancock's purpose in being

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Speaker 1: so frank with you?

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Speaker 2: I think John's a pretty sort of genuine character. I

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Speaker 2: think he wants to sort of get, you know, his

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Speaker 2: version of events and his reality out there. Obviously, Gina

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Speaker 2: still wields a pretty extraordinary influence in a Australia. She's

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Speaker 2: a big taxpayer, she employs thousands of people, and she

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Speaker 2: does some good things in terms of Australian business. But

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Speaker 2: I think John wants to put his hand up and say, hey,

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Speaker 2: I'm still doing some good things. He's got some interesting ideas.

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Speaker 2: He's actually a real champion as well of WA's mining sector.

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Speaker 2: So I think there is an actual, a real passion

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Speaker 2: beyond the money stakes for him, and having said all that,

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Speaker 2: I think he also just wants to try and get

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Speaker 2: a bit of balance as this court case rumbles on.

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Speaker 1: The full Richest two fifty list will be published on Friday.

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Speaker 1: You can find it where you buy the Australian imprint

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Speaker 1: and at the Australian dot com dot au