WEBVTT - #2158 Psychological Safety vs. Psychological Flexibility - Dr. Sam Casey 0:00:01.440 --> 0:00:03.880 Doctor Sam, Hi, how are you? 0:00:04.360 --> 0:00:04.960 I'm good? 0:00:05.080 --> 0:00:08.320 How are you well? I'm good? Now? 0:00:08.680 --> 0:00:12.160 Have we spoken about how many people I talked to? 0:00:12.200 --> 0:00:14.159 And how busy my mind is with other stuff? I 0:00:14.160 --> 0:00:17.319 should have asked you before, but you were prepping for 0:00:17.360 --> 0:00:19.400 a gig. You did the gig. I think we did 0:00:19.480 --> 0:00:21.279 chat briefly about how you went. 0:00:21.120 --> 0:00:21.560 Didn't we? 0:00:21.880 --> 0:00:22.079 Yep? 0:00:22.160 --> 0:00:22.360 We did. 0:00:22.960 --> 0:00:25.440 Have you got any more on the horizon. 0:00:26.480 --> 0:00:28.040 Any more? Speaking? 0:00:28.520 --> 0:00:30.440 Yes, public speaking too. 0:00:30.680 --> 0:00:35.839 I've got a conference that I've organized next week with 0:00:35.960 --> 0:00:37.120 another business in town. 0:00:38.440 --> 0:00:40.960 The theme is the superwoman myth? 0:00:42.760 --> 0:00:46.159 Oh well, can you give us a little thirty second teaser? 0:00:46.600 --> 0:00:50.160 What do you think that? What is the myth? Where 0:00:50.159 --> 0:00:51.240 does the myth come from? 0:00:51.920 --> 0:00:56.240 So we so it's really centralized around this idea that 0:00:56.600 --> 0:00:59.360 a lot of women admire the woman that does it all. 0:00:59.600 --> 0:01:01.400 And so what we're trying to say with this, and 0:01:01.440 --> 0:01:04.160 we've got you know, speaker, We've got a keynote speaker, 0:01:04.200 --> 0:01:06.800 and a panel and I'm on the panel. But what 0:01:06.840 --> 0:01:09.480 we're trying to say is that we shouldn't admire the 0:01:09.480 --> 0:01:12.560 ones that do it all. It's not about doing it 0:01:12.600 --> 0:01:16.520 all right, There is no award for doing it all ourselves. 0:01:16.680 --> 0:01:20.120 It's more around living a life that is aligned with 0:01:20.200 --> 0:01:23.920 your values, that you can express different parts of yourself. 0:01:25.280 --> 0:01:27.840 And so I think that that's more of the goal, right, 0:01:27.880 --> 0:01:31.039 so I feel connected to yourself to go after your dreams, to. 0:01:31.240 --> 0:01:32.720 Feel like it's not one of the other. 0:01:32.800 --> 0:01:35.399 It's not raising kids all my dreams, it's all these 0:01:35.400 --> 0:01:39.399 things can exist rather than this pressure of like I 0:01:39.560 --> 0:01:41.600 just you know, comparison, and I just need to do 0:01:41.640 --> 0:01:42.679 it all for the sake of it. 0:01:42.760 --> 0:01:44.880 So that's really what we're anti. 0:01:45.200 --> 0:01:50.880 Yes, I would think though, Comma, I absolutely concur with 0:01:50.920 --> 0:01:53.360 what you're saying. But I think that might be context 0:01:53.360 --> 0:01:58.480 dependent or situation or circumstance dependent in some cases, because 0:01:59.440 --> 0:02:03.120 you know, some mums might be single mums just trying 0:02:03.120 --> 0:02:06.640 to raise and feed and educate three kids, and so 0:02:06.880 --> 0:02:10.360 the craziness and the demands of their existence mean for 0:02:10.480 --> 0:02:14.320 right now, they do have to do everything because they don't, 0:02:15.080 --> 0:02:17.480 do you know what I mean? And so I think, like, 0:02:17.560 --> 0:02:20.240 I like the idea, and I agree with you in 0:02:20.280 --> 0:02:23.200 general terms, but I think there could be someone listening 0:02:23.280 --> 0:02:26.560 to this going, yeah, that's great, doctor Sam, but come 0:02:26.600 --> 0:02:28.640 and have a come and sit in my life for 0:02:28.720 --> 0:02:33.000 three days and you might change. But you know, it's 0:02:33.040 --> 0:02:35.400 all It always depends, doesn't it. 0:02:35.400 --> 0:02:35.919 It does? 0:02:36.000 --> 0:02:38.560 And I think sometimes so those examples were obviously, like 0:02:38.600 --> 0:02:41.080 you said, on I guess on a level that we 0:02:41.120 --> 0:02:43.120 can actually witness, like you said, a single mom and 0:02:43.200 --> 0:02:47.360 having to do that all herself. It's around the internal 0:02:47.600 --> 0:02:50.239 pressure that we put on ourselves right to do everything 0:02:50.280 --> 0:02:52.280 to a certain standard. So that's the kind of stuff 0:02:52.280 --> 0:02:55.760 that we can also check in with around Okay, this 0:02:55.840 --> 0:02:58.600 is all on me and I'm having to do these things, 0:02:58.639 --> 0:03:01.600 but how much of this is the practicalities like you said, 0:03:01.639 --> 0:03:03.680 but also how much a FeAs is like pressure to 0:03:03.760 --> 0:03:06.920 do it to the certain standard and where people room 0:03:06.960 --> 0:03:07.320 around that. 0:03:08.560 --> 0:03:12.239 You know, I'm always aware that there's this like quite 0:03:12.240 --> 0:03:15.079 often I'm talking about and you're talking about. I would 0:03:15.120 --> 0:03:20.880 guess like these things that while they are very they're 0:03:20.919 --> 0:03:23.959 good ideas, they're good topics, they're relevant for a lot 0:03:23.960 --> 0:03:28.320 of people. I almost feel guilty talking about hardship and 0:03:28.400 --> 0:03:30.960 adversity and overcoming and because. 0:03:30.680 --> 0:03:32.720 I don't really have any hardship. 0:03:33.120 --> 0:03:35.400 You know, I go, you know, there are things in 0:03:35.440 --> 0:03:40.200 my life that are challenging, but that when sometimes I 0:03:40.240 --> 0:03:44.320 feel like am I the person to talk about? You know, 0:03:45.240 --> 0:03:48.280 overcoming adversity, or when my life has been really it's 0:03:48.320 --> 0:03:49.040 been pretty good. 0:03:49.040 --> 0:03:50.240 There's been some tough stuff. 0:03:50.280 --> 0:03:55.560 But then I guess, you know that's that's I guess 0:03:55.600 --> 0:03:58.560 I could say, who am I to train a team 0:03:58.640 --> 0:04:01.720 of elite netball because I'm not a woman and I've 0:04:01.760 --> 0:04:04.600 never played netball, but I've trained to lead netball, as 0:04:04.640 --> 0:04:05.320 you know what I mean. 0:04:05.880 --> 0:04:08.600 So I guess you don't. 0:04:09.360 --> 0:04:11.920 Sorry, no, oh, sorry, I was just going to say, 0:04:11.920 --> 0:04:15.120 I guess you don't need It's like I don't need 0:04:15.160 --> 0:04:19.520 to be It's like I guess you don't need to 0:04:19.000 --> 0:04:24.160 be a female doctor to be a good gynecologist, or 0:04:24.600 --> 0:04:26.280 or that was probably a terror, but do you know 0:04:26.360 --> 0:04:29.120 what I mean? It's like I think having gone through 0:04:29.120 --> 0:04:32.560 the experience can help because you have experiential understanding and 0:04:32.600 --> 0:04:34.640 awareness and empty perhaps. 0:04:34.880 --> 0:04:36.360 But yeah, I don't know. 0:04:36.440 --> 0:04:39.039 Do you ever get nervous like I get nervous talking 0:04:39.040 --> 0:04:42.920 about some things? Like I got a not abusive, kind 0:04:42.920 --> 0:04:48.359 of abusive message once from I don't know, it doesn't 0:04:48.360 --> 0:04:50.480 matter who, but someone telling me I shouldn't talk about 0:04:50.560 --> 0:04:53.600 kids because I don't have kids, Like I shouldn't talk 0:04:53.640 --> 0:04:57.720 about educating or raising kids or anything to do with 0:04:57.960 --> 0:05:03.800 parenthood or and I'm like, yeah, maybe, but also I 0:05:03.920 --> 0:05:08.720 was a kid. Also in my businesses we trained thousands 0:05:08.760 --> 0:05:11.960 of kids, like I literally worked with you know, lots 0:05:12.000 --> 0:05:14.880 of kids in a sporting sense and also in the 0:05:14.920 --> 0:05:16.359 gym and elite athletes. 0:05:16.400 --> 0:05:19.640 And yeah, but maybe we I don't know, maybe when 0:05:19.640 --> 0:05:19.960 you're a. 0:05:19.920 --> 0:05:24.359 Bloke you get judged harder with these things, not with 0:05:24.520 --> 0:05:26.680 most things, but with that, I feel like a lot 0:05:26.680 --> 0:05:30.679 of people don't want to hear from some old dude 0:05:30.880 --> 0:05:33.640 talking about marriage or whatever when he's never been married. 0:05:33.680 --> 0:05:35.920 Not that I would dare to give marital advice. 0:05:36.400 --> 0:05:38.320 Well, you know what's crazy though with that is that 0:05:38.520 --> 0:05:40.719 we tend to then shoot the messenger and it becomes 0:05:40.720 --> 0:05:44.479 this kind of like character assassination rather than looking at 0:05:44.520 --> 0:05:46.560 the message, because you could have no kids and still 0:05:46.560 --> 0:05:49.279 make a really good point, like in isolation with that. 0:05:49.400 --> 0:05:51.320 Right, So, I mean, I agree with. 0:05:51.200 --> 0:05:53.320 What you're saying, though it does exist in society, and 0:05:53.360 --> 0:05:55.240 I think a lot of people, for example, are worried 0:05:55.240 --> 0:05:56.880 about talking about trauma because they're. 0:05:56.680 --> 0:05:59.279 Like, in comparison to somebody else, it's not that bad. 0:05:59.320 --> 0:06:00.360 But then end up. 0:06:00.279 --> 0:06:03.479 Dismissing ourselves and we don't realize that there was somebody 0:06:03.560 --> 0:06:05.640 like us that also feels the same, and there is 0:06:05.720 --> 0:06:09.360 somebody at that level, right that could really benefit from 0:06:09.400 --> 0:06:12.480 my insides but also insides. But what you said there 0:06:12.520 --> 0:06:16.200 around the not being a say the female, you know, 0:06:16.880 --> 0:06:20.400 but yeah, able to benefit. I actually think, like when 0:06:20.400 --> 0:06:23.680 I look back at my say, my PhD journey, my 0:06:23.720 --> 0:06:26.960 three supervisors weren't parents at the time, I actually think 0:06:27.000 --> 0:06:29.440 that that they helped my parenting in ways that they 0:06:29.440 --> 0:06:34.960 did not know because, for example, other moms, when they 0:06:35.640 --> 0:06:38.800 were talking about my PhD journey, it was more around 0:06:38.920 --> 0:06:42.760 I felt like they were projecting their limiting beliefs on me, 0:06:43.120 --> 0:06:45.440 like they were like, you know, I'm just struggling to 0:06:45.440 --> 0:06:46.040 get through the day. 0:06:46.040 --> 0:06:48.440 You're putting too much pressure on yourself, and maybe you should. 0:06:48.360 --> 0:06:50.400 Be doing this or you know, for them, it was 0:06:50.440 --> 0:06:53.760 what they believed was possible as a mother. And yet 0:06:53.839 --> 0:06:56.800 what I experienced was when I was studying and I 0:06:56.920 --> 0:07:01.280 was working, and I was saying my home environment, I 0:07:01.320 --> 0:07:04.360 felt my nervous system was so much more regulated and 0:07:04.480 --> 0:07:06.240 I had way more quality time with my kids than 0:07:06.279 --> 0:07:08.760 when I was, for example, traveling and I was just 0:07:08.760 --> 0:07:11.400 catching up with people and the kids, and I had 0:07:11.440 --> 0:07:14.120 no additional things on my plate, and yet I felt 0:07:14.280 --> 0:07:17.560 physically exhausted, like I couldn't imagine adding anything else on. Right, 0:07:17.600 --> 0:07:19.920 So people's perceptions of you've had all these things on 0:07:19.960 --> 0:07:22.880 your plate I actually found easier than just existing in 0:07:23.200 --> 0:07:26.040 the way that they lived life. But yeah, the way 0:07:26.040 --> 0:07:29.560 that my PhD supervisors, as an example, was they were 0:07:29.560 --> 0:07:33.520 tending to my curiosity. They were boarding me and mentoring 0:07:33.560 --> 0:07:36.160 me through for example, that they didn't see me as 0:07:36.200 --> 0:07:38.640 the mum, right, they saw me as Sam and Sam 0:07:38.640 --> 0:07:40.640 who had this idea, and they were trying to foster that. 0:07:40.960 --> 0:07:43.080 So then when I saw my child, I'm not seeing 0:07:43.080 --> 0:07:45.280 them as my child. I'm seeing them as their person, 0:07:45.440 --> 0:07:48.640 and I'm fostering their curiosity. So it's almost like people 0:07:48.720 --> 0:07:52.280 help you with certain things in ways that you don't anticipate. 0:07:52.320 --> 0:07:55.360 And I think, if anything, people who don't have children 0:07:55.440 --> 0:07:57.960 are not coming at it from this exhaustion, this depletion, 0:07:58.080 --> 0:07:59.080 the limiting kind. 0:07:58.920 --> 0:08:00.360 Of beliefs their own experience. 0:08:00.520 --> 0:08:02.240 Is if anything, the actually have a lot to add 0:08:02.520 --> 0:08:04.680 to the conversation inside. 0:08:05.040 --> 0:08:07.040 And then yeah, of course there were to. 0:08:07.000 --> 0:08:09.560 Become parents, their views would shift and they would have 0:08:09.600 --> 0:08:11.280 learned things and been like I thought, this but now 0:08:11.280 --> 0:08:12.840 I know this, but this is all part of the 0:08:12.920 --> 0:08:15.720 journey of being human, right, Like we go through experiences 0:08:15.720 --> 0:08:17.520 and then we shift o wws, like you want to 0:08:17.560 --> 0:08:18.240 be that person? 0:08:19.400 --> 0:08:23.160 Yes, Wow, you're being profoundly smart this morning. 0:08:24.400 --> 0:08:28.760 No, I love that. I love that. I I think 0:08:30.520 --> 0:08:31.880 I sometimes worry. 0:08:31.560 --> 0:08:33.480 About the way that I write or the way that 0:08:33.520 --> 0:08:38.840 I talk because I'm so blokey. Also, I don't know 0:08:38.880 --> 0:08:41.480 that I'm that blokey but direct, and then I go, oh, 0:08:41.559 --> 0:08:43.520 my two directs. Should I fluff it up a bit? 0:08:43.600 --> 0:08:46.839 Should I soften the language? Should I? 0:08:46.880 --> 0:08:47.320 And whenever? 0:08:47.360 --> 0:08:51.360 I actually put up thing years ago and said if 0:08:51.640 --> 0:08:53.680 I think it was like I did a poll and 0:08:53.760 --> 0:08:58.080 I said to my audience, I think this was back 0:08:58.080 --> 0:09:02.840 in Facebook days, and I said, you know, do I 0:09:02.880 --> 0:09:06.040 swear too much? Would you rather follow me with the 0:09:06.080 --> 0:09:09.160 swearing or without the swearing? And I said, this is honest, 0:09:09.240 --> 0:09:12.160 like if I get if the majority want me to 0:09:12.280 --> 0:09:14.839 not swear, I will put up all my posts from 0:09:14.880 --> 0:09:19.320 now on without swearing. And it was overwhelming, like you're 0:09:19.320 --> 0:09:22.000 going to predict. It was overwhelming, like, for God's sake, 0:09:22.080 --> 0:09:25.440 don't stop swearing. Right, It was like two percent of 0:09:25.440 --> 0:09:28.640 people wanted me in other words, they're just going, we'll 0:09:28.679 --> 0:09:32.040 be you. And it's but at the same time, I 0:09:32.120 --> 0:09:36.160 teach self awareness and I teach social awareness and you know, 0:09:36.280 --> 0:09:39.360 kind of understanding context, and so well, maybe me just 0:09:39.400 --> 0:09:42.360 talk and how I because I talk like as well, 0:09:42.400 --> 0:09:45.000 you don't know because we've never met away from the party, 0:09:45.040 --> 0:09:48.600 but you know, the way that I talk in life 0:09:48.640 --> 0:09:51.600 is exactly how I talk on a podcast, Like there 0:09:51.679 --> 0:09:54.880 is absolutely no difference. But with a lot of people 0:09:54.920 --> 0:09:57.679 they have almost like an on air radio voice. 0:09:57.480 --> 0:10:01.480 Or podcast voice or tele advice and it's a bit 0:10:01.520 --> 0:10:02.280 of a persona. 0:10:02.440 --> 0:10:07.800 And yeah, but what is interesting about my followers which 0:10:07.880 --> 0:10:13.360 surprised me on in my Instagram you can go back 0:10:13.360 --> 0:10:15.360 and you look at you can every post as you 0:10:15.400 --> 0:10:18.079 know how many people have looked at it, and likes 0:10:18.080 --> 0:10:20.000 and all of those things. But the most interesting bit 0:10:20.040 --> 0:10:21.800 for me is when you go look at the audience 0:10:21.880 --> 0:10:22.800 male female. 0:10:24.040 --> 0:10:25.280 My average. 0:10:26.720 --> 0:10:30.240 I guess follower and people who view my stuff is 0:10:31.760 --> 0:10:37.320 constantly between seventy and seventy five percent female. Interesting, like 0:10:37.800 --> 0:10:41.720 always around three quarters and always around one quarter male. 0:10:42.160 --> 0:10:45.160 And if you look at the way that I write 0:10:45.320 --> 0:10:48.360 or some of the I don't know the nature of 0:10:48.360 --> 0:10:49.320 the post or this or that. 0:10:49.360 --> 0:10:51.280 But also interesting is. 0:10:53.000 --> 0:10:55.320 Like the last time I did a big just a 0:10:55.440 --> 0:10:58.480 me event what Melissa calls who runs my life, Craig 0:10:58.600 --> 0:11:01.560 up alive a Craig arp alive e in Melbourne. We're 0:11:01.559 --> 0:11:04.040 at Deacon University and we had six hundred and seventy 0:11:04.080 --> 0:11:07.320 five people, and at least six. 0:11:07.200 --> 0:11:08.160 Hundred were women. 0:11:09.600 --> 0:11:12.640 Yeah, I wore yeah, And so there were some dudes 0:11:12.679 --> 0:11:14.200 who chose to be there, but there were a bunch 0:11:14.240 --> 0:11:16.400 of dudes who were just dragged along by their wives 0:11:16.480 --> 0:11:17.160 or girlfriends. 0:11:18.760 --> 0:11:21.320 And I'm not suggesting on any level anyone. 0:11:21.000 --> 0:11:24.640 That this has got to do with how attractive I 0:11:24.679 --> 0:11:29.360 am or aunt, which is clearly evident, but yeah, it 0:11:29.480 --> 0:11:33.839 just fascinates me that I think I could be wrong, 0:11:34.000 --> 0:11:37.680 but my experience is that more women seem to be 0:11:38.720 --> 0:11:42.200 and maybe it's just in the social media space, I'm 0:11:42.200 --> 0:11:46.559 not sure, but more women seem to be more enthusiastic 0:11:46.640 --> 0:11:51.199 about pursuing personal growth. And I'm not talking about the 0:11:51.360 --> 0:11:55.920 industry or the product or the service, but actually trying 0:11:55.920 --> 0:11:58.160 to grow and learn and evolve and use you know 0:11:58.200 --> 0:12:01.080 whatever the resources and Instagram post or a book or 0:12:01.080 --> 0:12:05.680 a workshop or an audio thing. Yeah, I think and 0:12:05.800 --> 0:12:08.319 guys definitely are, but I think there's a much greater 0:12:08.360 --> 0:12:12.200 percentage of women who who kind of habit the space 0:12:12.280 --> 0:12:13.880 of self help and personal growth. 0:12:14.240 --> 0:12:16.080 And I think sometimes males come at it from a 0:12:16.080 --> 0:12:18.200 different way, which I think is actually helpful in a 0:12:18.200 --> 0:12:19.760 lot of ways too. Right, So I know that you're 0:12:19.800 --> 0:12:21.600 saying that that can be seen as like a floor 0:12:21.600 --> 0:12:23.800 when you're you know, not a female yourself or not parent, 0:12:23.840 --> 0:12:26.160 but I can also see the benefit to that as well, 0:12:26.200 --> 0:12:28.440 because you're able to come at it from a different lens. 0:12:29.720 --> 0:12:31.880 Back to the swearing thing, it's interesting, I feel like, 0:12:32.440 --> 0:12:35.079 you know, in the age of social media and also 0:12:35.160 --> 0:12:38.000 trying to kind of go okay, I want to see 0:12:38.000 --> 0:12:40.240 what lands or I don't want to offend people. We 0:12:40.320 --> 0:12:42.960 try and then force ourselves to be neutral. But if anything, 0:12:43.200 --> 0:12:45.000 it's almost like the more that we can be ourselves, 0:12:45.080 --> 0:12:46.960 you're going to get those like true fans, and then 0:12:46.960 --> 0:12:48.880 you need those people that just hate it. And then 0:12:48.880 --> 0:12:51.480 that's okay because you're like, I'm big me, and there's 0:12:51.480 --> 0:12:54.160 going to be this percentage that absolutely loves what you're 0:12:54.200 --> 0:12:55.880 doing and your message and gets you. 0:12:55.880 --> 0:12:58.800 And then there's the people that hate it. But if you. 0:12:58.760 --> 0:13:01.800 Stand for something that's just an evitable really yeah, one 0:13:01.880 --> 0:13:02.400 hundred percent. 0:13:02.640 --> 0:13:05.600 And I mean I've like, as I've said to people 0:13:05.640 --> 0:13:09.760 many times, I don't I don't swear for effect. I 0:13:09.920 --> 0:13:12.800 just it's how I it's how I talk, and maybe 0:13:12.800 --> 0:13:16.160 I should modify it. But then I think if I 0:13:16.200 --> 0:13:19.640 modify for what I think is a general audience, it's 0:13:19.640 --> 0:13:21.679 not like I'm doing a corporate gig where it's all 0:13:21.720 --> 0:13:24.559 fancy and smancy and you. 0:13:24.520 --> 0:13:28.400 Know there, then there is more. 0:13:28.320 --> 0:13:32.320 Of a specific protocol that you should you probably shouldn't 0:13:32.320 --> 0:13:34.719 get up there and say fuck right. And I get that, 0:13:35.120 --> 0:13:37.360 and it's context a pennant. And if I'm talking at 0:13:37.360 --> 0:13:40.480 a school to teachers or kids, of course it's you know. 0:13:40.559 --> 0:13:43.880 But when so on the podcast, I try not to 0:13:45.080 --> 0:13:45.880 worry about that. 0:13:46.320 --> 0:13:46.800 I don't. 0:13:46.880 --> 0:13:50.160 I don't like there's nothing strategic about my swearing or 0:13:50.200 --> 0:13:50.880 not swearing. 0:13:51.720 --> 0:13:53.000 But it is interesting. 0:13:53.080 --> 0:13:56.240 I did a post the other day essentially about and 0:13:56.320 --> 0:13:59.240 this could be true for many things, but like the 0:13:59.320 --> 0:14:03.400 psychology of being offended, and I've spoken about this maybe 0:14:03.400 --> 0:14:05.640 too many times, but I just find it interesting that 0:14:06.640 --> 0:14:10.520 you know, you'll say something and someone absolutely believes that 0:14:10.600 --> 0:14:17.439 what you said is categorically globally offensive, without even realizing 0:14:17.480 --> 0:14:19.840 that the three or four people around them are not 0:14:19.960 --> 0:14:22.000 offended by the exact same thing. 0:14:22.800 --> 0:14:24.480 And it's always going to be based on on their 0:14:24.520 --> 0:14:27.440 worldview and their lens and their core beliefs. And this 0:14:27.480 --> 0:14:29.640 is what's really hard. No matter how nice you say 0:14:29.680 --> 0:14:32.400 something or how you kind of tip you to around things, 0:14:32.480 --> 0:14:35.240 they're going to take it based on them, not you, 0:14:35.520 --> 0:14:36.520 Like it's a projection. 0:14:37.960 --> 0:14:41.600 I see this lot in the parenting kind of space too. 0:14:42.080 --> 0:14:45.160 There was this lady and she was quite famous, and 0:14:45.240 --> 0:14:50.400 she posted a reel about how much of a present 0:14:50.480 --> 0:14:53.400 mum she feels because she has the babysitters and has 0:14:53.440 --> 0:14:56.880 the cleaner and has the like the whole team basically right, 0:14:56.920 --> 0:14:59.960 So wow, stressed because when I get to with my kids, 0:15:00.160 --> 0:15:02.800 I'm there and I'm present. And it triggered so many 0:15:02.840 --> 0:15:07.800 people watching these like I'm watching the comments and it 0:15:07.880 --> 0:15:09.160 was like, well, it would be nice to have that 0:15:09.240 --> 0:15:11.840 much money, and they're all kind of ripping her apart. 0:15:12.360 --> 0:15:14.560 But no one again, they're shooting the messenger. No one 0:15:14.600 --> 0:15:17.960 took the message, which is when we have so much 0:15:18.000 --> 0:15:20.200 on our plate and we're trying and it's all on 0:15:20.280 --> 0:15:24.160 us it is stressful, and the less we have, the 0:15:24.240 --> 0:15:26.960 less stress we have, the easier it is to be present. 0:15:27.200 --> 0:15:29.880 And if we just took that little message, it could 0:15:29.880 --> 0:15:32.320 honestly be the littlest shifts. Like you gave that example 0:15:32.320 --> 0:15:34.760 of the single mom, it could be like, Oh, as 0:15:34.800 --> 0:15:37.480 a single mom, when my I don't know sister comes 0:15:37.520 --> 0:15:39.880 to visit to see the kids, Instead of sitting with 0:15:39.920 --> 0:15:41.680 her and feeling like I have to be there because 0:15:41.680 --> 0:15:43.960 I'm the mom, I'll be like, you're an adult, do 0:15:44.000 --> 0:15:45.800 you mind actually watching the kids for an hour because 0:15:45.800 --> 0:15:46.720 I'm going to go for a walk. 0:15:46.840 --> 0:15:47.520 For example. 0:15:47.600 --> 0:15:51.560 Like, it could be the tiniest shifts, but it starts 0:15:51.600 --> 0:15:53.560 with that kind of cool message of like, Okay, I 0:15:53.600 --> 0:15:55.400 hear what she's trying to say. Now I can't do 0:15:55.480 --> 0:15:57.280 it in the way that she's doing it, But how 0:15:57.280 --> 0:15:59.680 can I take the message and adapt it for my life? 0:16:00.800 --> 0:16:02.360 And I think a lot of people struggle to do that. 0:16:03.160 --> 0:16:09.040 I think trying to understand, truly understand, not agree with, 0:16:09.480 --> 0:16:14.280 understand someone else's reality or perspective like that has to 0:16:14.280 --> 0:16:17.280 be driven by a desire to want to understand. 0:16:17.720 --> 0:16:20.800 Yes, a growth mindset, really, yeah. 0:16:20.600 --> 0:16:23.280 Steve, that's Stephen Covey quote, which he probably ripped off 0:16:23.280 --> 0:16:26.360 from someone else. You know, seek first to understand and 0:16:26.440 --> 0:16:32.360 then to be understood. And you know, because I talk 0:16:32.440 --> 0:16:34.280 to and deal with the mentor and all of that, 0:16:34.320 --> 0:16:37.240 so many people who are not like me, not better, 0:16:37.320 --> 0:16:41.360 not worse, just different. So my first session with them 0:16:41.440 --> 0:16:45.760 is really trying to understand like the window through which 0:16:45.840 --> 0:16:48.760 they see and experience the world. 0:16:49.240 --> 0:16:52.200 The empathy, right, and I actually feel like I thought 0:16:52.240 --> 0:16:56.000 I would struggle with this becoming a therapist, and yet 0:16:56.280 --> 0:16:59.120 I find it now and this is obviously years after. 0:16:59.360 --> 0:17:02.040 So we see to look at the core human needs 0:17:02.080 --> 0:17:04.000 and connect and even if someone in front of me 0:17:04.040 --> 0:17:07.359 has lived a completely different, like I'm talking pole opposite life, 0:17:07.560 --> 0:17:10.280 I can see that every human has these core needs 0:17:10.600 --> 0:17:14.280 and we all have and it's so much easier, I 0:17:14.280 --> 0:17:16.520 think when we relate in that way. Like when I 0:17:16.640 --> 0:17:19.000 used to work, say with kids rite in therapy, and 0:17:19.040 --> 0:17:20.800 I'm looking at them parent, I used to look at 0:17:20.800 --> 0:17:23.040 them as an adult, and when I shifted that off, 0:17:23.119 --> 0:17:24.919 like Okay, I'm going to start from the beginning, what 0:17:25.000 --> 0:17:28.240 was their experiences like as a child, it just changes it, right, 0:17:28.320 --> 0:17:30.640 because you're like, Okay, I can see this story now 0:17:30.760 --> 0:17:34.000 like I get it. I get one feeling the wather 0:17:34.080 --> 0:17:35.640 they do or behaving the way that they are. 0:17:37.840 --> 0:17:38.959 Yeah, I agree. 0:17:39.160 --> 0:17:42.840 It's like I had a light bulb moment years ago, now, 0:17:42.880 --> 0:17:46.040 probably twenty years ago, when my mum and dad were 0:17:46.640 --> 0:17:50.800 in their sixties, not in their mid eighties, and I 0:17:50.800 --> 0:17:53.720 can't even remember what precipitated it. 0:17:53.720 --> 0:17:54.560 It was with my dad. 0:17:54.680 --> 0:17:56.880 My dad and I have buttered heads a bit over 0:17:56.920 --> 0:17:58.360 the years, not terribly, but. 0:18:00.080 --> 0:18:03.600 And I remember, I can't even remember what transpired. 0:18:03.640 --> 0:18:06.399 But then it made me think of my dad's childhood 0:18:06.480 --> 0:18:09.440 and my dad, you know, born in the first year 0:18:09.480 --> 0:18:12.600 of the Second World War and growing up first six 0:18:12.680 --> 0:18:16.919 years in a World war, and all the poverty that 0:18:16.960 --> 0:18:19.879 they were in the middle of and six boys, so 0:18:19.960 --> 0:18:23.800 two parents and six boys, so eight miles to feed, and. 0:18:25.359 --> 0:18:27.480 You know, just there was so much to it. 0:18:28.040 --> 0:18:30.399 And then my mom's mom died giving birth, so my 0:18:30.480 --> 0:18:31.639 mum was raised by. 0:18:31.480 --> 0:18:32.879 Her grandmother and nuns. 0:18:33.080 --> 0:18:37.720 And like there when I went kind of and really 0:18:37.720 --> 0:18:41.439 did a deep dive into what their life experience was 0:18:42.560 --> 0:18:45.639 compared to my life experience when I was a kid, 0:18:46.040 --> 0:18:49.600 which was, you know, it wasn't spectacular, but compared. 0:18:49.280 --> 0:18:51.479 To mom and dad, it was Disneyland. It was like 0:18:51.520 --> 0:18:52.160 a movie. 0:18:53.080 --> 0:18:56.440 And then you realize that this sixty five year old 0:18:56.480 --> 0:18:59.719 person in front of you is just that child with 0:18:59.800 --> 0:19:03.560 more years, more miles on the clock. You know, because 0:19:03.640 --> 0:19:08.320 we essentially become an older version of what we were 0:19:08.440 --> 0:19:11.560 when we were a kid, doesn't mean we don't change or. 0:19:11.520 --> 0:19:14.400 Improve or get worse or but yeah. 0:19:14.280 --> 0:19:18.160 That trying to understand why my dad was the way 0:19:18.359 --> 0:19:22.480 he was, or my mum, or when I didn't have 0:19:22.600 --> 0:19:26.879 to deal with any real hardship or adversary or you know, 0:19:26.960 --> 0:19:29.840 even living in a time where you don't know if 0:19:29.840 --> 0:19:32.360 you're going to be attacked or bombed or invaded or 0:19:32.440 --> 0:19:37.119 you know, all of those things. And that willingness to 0:19:37.160 --> 0:19:41.199 be able to put aside what you think or feel 0:19:41.320 --> 0:19:44.320 or you're whatever for a moment and try to really 0:19:44.359 --> 0:19:48.639 dive into the experience of somebody else. That can be 0:19:48.680 --> 0:19:52.080 a real emotional and social game changer. 0:19:53.000 --> 0:19:54.800 Definitely, And I think this is where a lot of 0:19:54.800 --> 0:19:58.520 people struggle with it in terms of special especially looking 0:19:58.560 --> 0:20:02.400 at childhood black Kinjim and breaking cycles and things like that. 0:20:02.800 --> 0:20:04.879 To know that two things can be true in going 0:20:04.960 --> 0:20:08.480 my parents, like, Okay, this is like you said. 0:20:08.320 --> 0:20:10.399 Understanding their story. This is why they are like they are. 0:20:10.440 --> 0:20:12.640 They're they're living in this They lived in this world 0:20:12.720 --> 0:20:15.040 where it was like survival mode and their parents were 0:20:15.080 --> 0:20:17.840 so focused on getting their physical needs met that emotional 0:20:17.880 --> 0:20:21.719 needs were not even a consideration. And then so you 0:20:21.760 --> 0:20:23.680 acknowledge that right and be like, Okay, I can see 0:20:23.680 --> 0:20:24.399 why they're like that. 0:20:24.760 --> 0:20:26.600 But then the other b which is like, oh, and 0:20:26.680 --> 0:20:27.800 these are this is kind. 0:20:27.640 --> 0:20:30.000 Of what I need more now as an adult because 0:20:30.000 --> 0:20:32.040 when I was a child, I didn't have someone there 0:20:32.280 --> 0:20:34.879 reflecting my feelings back and holding space for them and 0:20:34.920 --> 0:20:36.960 being able to actually talk to them about things that 0:20:37.000 --> 0:20:39.560 were really difficult. And I think when we're able to 0:20:39.640 --> 0:20:42.840 do both, it's again it's not blaming the parent, but 0:20:42.840 --> 0:20:45.239 it's also not going, oh that didn't affect me. You know, 0:20:45.440 --> 0:20:48.840 there's was worse and I'm completely fine. It's almost going. Actually, 0:20:48.840 --> 0:20:51.920 we all have childhood conditioning and limiting beliefs and things 0:20:51.920 --> 0:20:54.040 that we need to learn and unlearn, and I think 0:20:54.080 --> 0:20:55.639 when we look at it in that way, it's just 0:20:55.640 --> 0:20:58.800 so much more expansive for us because we know it's 0:20:58.880 --> 0:21:00.760 kind of what I need more of, and this is 0:21:00.800 --> 0:21:03.040 probably what they still need more off too in their lives, 0:21:03.119 --> 0:21:06.200 and yeah, holding space for I think for both. 0:21:07.200 --> 0:21:11.880 I was talking to somebody recently in the last month, 0:21:12.920 --> 0:21:18.440 and this lady that I know, not very well, but 0:21:18.840 --> 0:21:19.800 not a nice lady. 0:21:20.280 --> 0:21:20.600 Anyway. 0:21:20.640 --> 0:21:22.720 I was talking to her at the cafe, which is 0:21:22.800 --> 0:21:27.640 my six thirty to eight am office, and apparently I'm 0:21:27.680 --> 0:21:32.399 open for business, apparently had that. No. 0:21:33.000 --> 0:21:35.040 I just like, I know a fair few people. 0:21:35.119 --> 0:21:37.280 So I get a lot of people just say hi 0:21:37.400 --> 0:21:38.960 and all of that, which is lovely and I don't 0:21:39.000 --> 0:21:42.240 mind it. And some people go, can I ask you something? 0:21:42.480 --> 0:21:44.320 And I go, yeah, you know, and then that might 0:21:44.359 --> 0:21:47.280 become two minutes or twenty minutes or whatever. But anyway, 0:21:47.359 --> 0:21:49.520 so I was talking to this lady and it was 0:21:49.560 --> 0:21:54.119 really evident that she was quite angry at her mum 0:21:54.440 --> 0:21:56.520 and grumpy at her mum. And I'm not saying she 0:21:56.600 --> 0:21:59.800 shouldn't be, but I don't know what she is. I 0:21:59.800 --> 0:22:03.280 gets she's in her early fifties and her mum is 0:22:03.320 --> 0:22:08.400 in a mid to late seventies, and I was just thinking, oh, 0:22:08.480 --> 0:22:14.800 she's just a child, like she still wants her mom's approval. Yeah, 0:22:14.840 --> 0:22:17.160 and she still wants her mom to say that thing 0:22:17.240 --> 0:22:19.880 that you did or didn't do or whatever forty years ago, 0:22:20.320 --> 0:22:23.600 that's okay or that, And I thought, oh, yeah, God, 0:22:23.720 --> 0:22:27.240 we don't really grow up necessarily, we just get older 0:22:27.560 --> 0:22:31.360 and the bullshit that and I say, I've done this too, 0:22:31.400 --> 0:22:34.360 I'm sure. So I'm not throwing an individual under the bus, 0:22:34.359 --> 0:22:37.679 but the bullshit that we hold on to, the stuff 0:22:37.720 --> 0:22:40.720 that we want to stay mad about, you know, the 0:22:40.760 --> 0:22:43.680 thing that happened thirty years ago that we can't undo. 0:22:43.760 --> 0:22:47.320 It can't be changed, we can't reverse history. And I'm 0:22:47.359 --> 0:22:50.679 not saying it wasn't terrible or tragic. We fully acknowledge 0:22:50.720 --> 0:22:53.080 the pain of it and the wrongness of it, all 0:22:53.080 --> 0:22:57.760 of that. But then you go, but today's Wednesday, and 0:22:57.800 --> 0:22:59.240 it's twenty twenty six. 0:23:00.160 --> 0:23:04.600 Today, you know, like that isn't happening. 0:23:04.640 --> 0:23:07.920 And just I don't know this thing that wants these 0:23:08.040 --> 0:23:10.520 emotional anchors that we carry around. 0:23:11.359 --> 0:23:12.080 It's almost like. 0:23:12.040 --> 0:23:14.680 It's on process though, because if you think about that example, right, 0:23:14.960 --> 0:23:17.200 the anger is actually festering away within. 0:23:17.119 --> 0:23:18.560 Her, her parents not feeling that. 0:23:18.600 --> 0:23:21.320 Well, they may get those like resentment kind of statements 0:23:21.400 --> 0:23:24.320 or maybe they are right, but it's actually mostly hurting her. 0:23:24.400 --> 0:23:25.719 And I think there's two parts to this. 0:23:26.280 --> 0:23:28.000 You could obviously get a parent that is in their 0:23:28.000 --> 0:23:30.320 older age and they're able to repair and acknowledge you 0:23:30.359 --> 0:23:32.399 know what, Like I can see that that hurt you, 0:23:32.440 --> 0:23:34.240 this is where I was at, but you might not. 0:23:34.680 --> 0:23:37.040 And so it's I guess for us right as the adult, 0:23:37.119 --> 0:23:39.280 to go, I need to grieve the parent that I 0:23:39.280 --> 0:23:40.960 didn't have or I wish I had when I was 0:23:40.960 --> 0:23:44.160 growing up in the experiences and allowing yourself to feel 0:23:44.160 --> 0:23:47.240 that grief, but then going, I am now responsible for 0:23:47.320 --> 0:23:50.600 my life and I need to give myself these corrective experiences. 0:23:51.080 --> 0:23:53.639 If I felt like I was dismissed and shut down 0:23:54.080 --> 0:23:56.600 as a kid, I can still see myself treating myself 0:23:56.600 --> 0:23:58.600 like that. Now I need to be able to rewire 0:23:58.720 --> 0:24:00.840 this inner self talk that kid continues to do that 0:24:00.920 --> 0:24:03.199 because that's the damage that's been done. Every day that 0:24:03.280 --> 0:24:06.520 we're doing right, we can work on and so yeah, 0:24:06.520 --> 0:24:09.399 I think there's definitely an element here of actually probably 0:24:09.400 --> 0:24:13.080 both grieving what they've missed out and really acknowledging that pain, 0:24:13.800 --> 0:24:15.640 but then going I'm an adult, like what do I need. 0:24:16.000 --> 0:24:18.760 I'm responsible for my life, and I think that that's 0:24:18.880 --> 0:24:19.600 very empowering. 0:24:19.960 --> 0:24:21.880 And I know that when we're. 0:24:21.720 --> 0:24:24.240 Able to do that, even especially as a parent, where 0:24:24.240 --> 0:24:28.560 they're not parenting from our unhealed wounds, we're actually parenting 0:24:28.600 --> 0:24:31.000 from this place if I'm healing myself alongside them. So 0:24:31.080 --> 0:24:32.879 an example of that, right is like, I'm never going 0:24:32.960 --> 0:24:34.320 to be like my parent, And then you go the 0:24:34.400 --> 0:24:36.639 other way and you don't even give them space to 0:24:36.680 --> 0:24:39.119 process their emotions because you're constantly trying to like be 0:24:39.240 --> 0:24:41.640 the one to hear them all out right. So it's 0:24:41.880 --> 0:24:44.200 I think it's really important that we, even as adults, 0:24:44.280 --> 0:24:45.200 look at those wounds. 0:24:46.240 --> 0:24:48.920 Yeah, and then you don't even understand things like when 0:24:49.000 --> 0:24:51.440 you know, I was six, Like when I was six, 0:24:51.520 --> 0:24:53.720 my mum was thirty. And by the way, my childhood 0:24:53.760 --> 0:24:56.439 was good. So the example I'm about to give is fiction, 0:24:56.560 --> 0:24:59.480 but you know I could at thirty, my mum could 0:24:59.520 --> 0:25:05.679 have been this emotionally disregulated, highly anxious, fearful, overthinking, self 0:25:05.720 --> 0:25:12.640 critical mum that that perhaps didn't always parent optimally, right yep, 0:25:12.680 --> 0:25:15.840 which wasn't the case. I think my mum was pretty great. 0:25:15.600 --> 0:25:19.480 But as now as the adult, you don't even consider 0:25:19.680 --> 0:25:22.280 what your mum was going through or your dad at 0:25:22.280 --> 0:25:25.720 twenty six, or like my parents were, which is almost 0:25:25.800 --> 0:25:28.400 old back then. But they were parents at twenty four, 0:25:28.480 --> 0:25:31.800 which now is very young. But fuck, when I was 0:25:31.800 --> 0:25:33.200 twenty four, I was a moron. 0:25:33.840 --> 0:25:34.000 You know. 0:25:34.000 --> 0:25:38.240 I didn't know anything like trying to steal some person 0:25:38.400 --> 0:25:41.639 other person's life. How do I be a great parent 0:25:41.800 --> 0:25:43.280 mentor enrollment model? 0:25:43.320 --> 0:25:44.800 And you just don't know? 0:25:45.080 --> 0:25:46.879 And you know, a big part of that, though, is 0:25:47.040 --> 0:25:49.239 parents thinking that they need to hide it from their 0:25:49.320 --> 0:25:51.560 children and try and be perfect. And that's a whole 0:25:51.640 --> 0:25:54.480 other thing, right, because then I have adults in therapy going, 0:25:54.840 --> 0:25:57.359 But my parents were perfect, Like they handled everything when 0:25:57.400 --> 0:26:00.119 we were kids, and why am I struggling now? I 0:26:00.160 --> 0:26:03.000 feeling all these things when they were okay? And so 0:26:03.040 --> 0:26:05.480 what happens is when we see a parent as perfect, 0:26:06.040 --> 0:26:08.119 we then internalize it. So the child's like, well, if 0:26:08.160 --> 0:26:10.320 you're perfect and you're handling it, it must because I 0:26:10.359 --> 0:26:12.119 was behaving this way, it must be my fault. 0:26:12.520 --> 0:26:14.920 And so then they become really hyper vigilant. 0:26:14.840 --> 0:26:18.320 Around their own behavior, right, Like it's always me versus 0:26:18.359 --> 0:26:20.840 if a parent's like, yeah, I'm feeling a bit stressed 0:26:20.880 --> 0:26:24.159 because of this on my plate. It's not you. It's 0:26:24.240 --> 0:26:26.000 I'm kind of dealing with some stuff. It's actually a 0:26:26.000 --> 0:26:28.520 whole lot better for a child to then grow up going, yeah, 0:26:28.560 --> 0:26:30.439 my parent had all this on their plate and they 0:26:30.480 --> 0:26:32.080 were struggling because then they don't see it as a 0:26:32.080 --> 0:26:36.840 reflection of them. Yeah, yeah, they see to add human 0:26:36.920 --> 0:26:38.760 going through stuff and then they're like, I'm going to 0:26:38.760 --> 0:26:40.040 be a human going through stuff too. 0:26:41.280 --> 0:26:45.280 Yeah, I get it, and I agree in terms of 0:26:45.280 --> 0:26:48.520 what you see now, and we're generalizing, and this is 0:26:48.640 --> 0:26:50.359 just one person's. 0:26:49.960 --> 0:26:51.399 Experience that is yours. 0:26:52.840 --> 0:26:57.320 What are some of the mistakes seems harsh, but let's 0:26:57.400 --> 0:27:00.399 just use that unless there's a better What are some 0:27:00.480 --> 0:27:04.480 of the mistakes that you see some well meaning, loving 0:27:04.680 --> 0:27:09.120 parents make that they don't even know they're making a mistake, 0:27:11.119 --> 0:27:13.199 like what you just said. One which is not just 0:27:13.320 --> 0:27:18.119 telling the kids or not necessarily being authentic about that 0:27:18.119 --> 0:27:20.639 they're stressed or they're worried or you know. 0:27:21.320 --> 0:27:23.040 Yeah, yeah, so things that they have a look, I 0:27:23.040 --> 0:27:26.479 would say, right, which is that of going actually because 0:27:26.520 --> 0:27:29.160 they're trying to not put it on their child, they're 0:27:29.160 --> 0:27:32.159 overlooking the fact that they're now appearing perfect. So if anything, 0:27:32.160 --> 0:27:34.159 the child's going to actually put it more on themselves. 0:27:34.560 --> 0:27:37.159 So that's probably one thing. I think the other is 0:27:37.359 --> 0:27:40.520 trying to heal through their child. So coming at it 0:27:41.600 --> 0:27:44.399 with I want to give my child the childhood I 0:27:44.440 --> 0:27:47.919 didn't have, is really you coming from a wound versus 0:27:47.960 --> 0:27:49.719 I want to give my child what they need, and 0:27:49.760 --> 0:27:51.480 I need to give myself what I need now as 0:27:51.480 --> 0:27:51.959 an adult. 0:27:52.400 --> 0:27:55.160 So I think that's the thing which is huge, right. 0:27:57.040 --> 0:27:59.439 I don't want my child to feel what I felt, 0:28:00.119 --> 0:28:02.800 again is coming from a wound, because the reality is 0:28:02.880 --> 0:28:05.080 children need to feel more than happy and content. They 0:28:05.119 --> 0:28:07.960 need to feel like disappointed and sad and grief and 0:28:08.600 --> 0:28:11.600 all of the things. And being able to hold space 0:28:11.600 --> 0:28:13.359 for that and not seeing that as a reflection of 0:28:13.440 --> 0:28:16.120 us and our felations and. 0:28:16.280 --> 0:28:18.440 This whole I will end this cycle like it will 0:28:18.480 --> 0:28:19.040 end with me. 0:28:19.880 --> 0:28:22.760 Then really dehumanizes us because it's like, well, all these 0:28:22.800 --> 0:28:24.920 other generations struggled, but I'm going to be this one 0:28:24.920 --> 0:28:26.960 that's going to completely make it perfect. 0:28:27.359 --> 0:28:28.960 And what going to break this cycle? 0:28:29.240 --> 0:28:30.520 Yeah, I'm going to break the cycle. 0:28:30.600 --> 0:28:32.879 And so what happens is it becomes our little mission 0:28:33.240 --> 0:28:35.440 and there are like projects and that's not fair because 0:28:35.480 --> 0:28:37.520 they're a human and we're a human, and no one 0:28:37.600 --> 0:28:39.200 is going to break this cycle. What we can do 0:28:39.280 --> 0:28:42.959 is interrupt cycles and shift cycles and understand cycles, but 0:28:43.000 --> 0:28:45.720 you're not going to end it completely. If anything, that's 0:28:45.720 --> 0:28:47.960 a whole cycle in itself. And I think when we 0:28:48.120 --> 0:28:51.400 realize that, we then give our child that freedom as well, 0:28:51.440 --> 0:28:53.520 where like, Okay, you're not my project. What I'm going 0:28:53.560 --> 0:28:55.680 to do, though, is I'm going to continue to work 0:28:55.680 --> 0:28:57.680 on this cycle. I'm going to heal myself and grow 0:28:57.800 --> 0:29:00.160 alongside you, and they're for. 0:29:00.320 --> 0:29:02.560 I'm not going to heal through you. 0:29:02.680 --> 0:29:05.479 And I think that that's huge because I think often 0:29:05.520 --> 0:29:07.680 we don't even see it. Every single interaction that you 0:29:07.720 --> 0:29:09.880 have with a child, whether you're a parent or a professional, 0:29:10.400 --> 0:29:11.240 is coming from. 0:29:11.200 --> 0:29:12.400 Your own inner child round. 0:29:12.520 --> 0:29:14.560 And if you're not working on that at the same time, 0:29:14.680 --> 0:29:16.480 then yeah, you're going to project it onto them. 0:29:16.520 --> 0:29:17.520 You're going to make them your. 0:29:17.360 --> 0:29:20.440 Little project and a way to feel good about, you know, 0:29:21.280 --> 0:29:23.440 what you didn't get and how you're giving it to them. 0:29:23.520 --> 0:29:25.560 But then they're not building self trust with themselves, they're 0:29:25.560 --> 0:29:27.080 not building connection with themselves. 0:29:28.400 --> 0:29:33.360 I feel like there's this parenting a parental or parenting juxtaposition, 0:29:33.600 --> 0:29:39.360 and that is parents want to protect their kids, love 0:29:39.440 --> 0:29:43.360 their kids, you know, intervene for their kids. At some 0:29:43.560 --> 0:29:47.040 time at times, and they want them to be raised 0:29:47.080 --> 0:29:52.480 in a loving, warm, safe, familiar, protective environment. And that 0:29:52.560 --> 0:29:55.240 sounds amazing by the way, I'm not saying that's a 0:29:55.280 --> 0:29:55.720 bad thing. 0:29:56.280 --> 0:29:58.760 But at the same time, they want. 0:29:58.560 --> 0:30:01.120 Their kids to be able to navigate the world and 0:30:01.160 --> 0:30:03.880 be adaptable and be resilient and deal with hard stuff 0:30:03.920 --> 0:30:06.760 because the world is hard and life is hard, and 0:30:06.840 --> 0:30:10.640 life does not care about your child's feelings or you know, 0:30:10.680 --> 0:30:13.640 whether or not they come first or last. What's the 0:30:14.600 --> 0:30:20.440 typewrote that we walk trying to ensure that our kids 0:30:20.520 --> 0:30:25.640 are loved and safe but also not dependent in a 0:30:25.680 --> 0:30:26.240 bad way. 0:30:28.200 --> 0:30:30.840 Isn't that really hard because and I think it's acknowledging 0:30:30.880 --> 0:30:33.400 the fear, like it is all fear driven because you're like, 0:30:33.440 --> 0:30:35.640 of course, I want to protect and love my child 0:30:35.720 --> 0:30:37.200 and keep them safe for things. 0:30:36.960 --> 0:30:39.720 And you know, really buffer any hardship. 0:30:39.840 --> 0:30:42.719 But then on the flip side, like you said, resilience 0:30:42.840 --> 0:30:45.120 is actually built when we go through hard things. And 0:30:45.160 --> 0:30:47.040 to be honest, I see a lot of people who 0:30:47.040 --> 0:30:49.400 struggle with addiction as adults and it comes from this 0:30:49.480 --> 0:30:52.600 place of avoidance of their feelings because they don't know 0:30:52.640 --> 0:30:54.400 how to cope with that. Like I don't know how 0:30:54.440 --> 0:30:56.200 to feel sad and sit with that. I don't know 0:30:56.240 --> 0:30:59.120 how to feel that grief. I just need to escape it. 0:30:59.640 --> 0:31:01.640 So this is really tricky, and I think when we 0:31:01.840 --> 0:31:04.400 realize that, we realize it's not an easy answer. There 0:31:04.440 --> 0:31:07.600 is so much fear driving this cycle. But I like 0:31:07.680 --> 0:31:09.640 to then flip it and going what's the opposite of fear. 0:31:09.680 --> 0:31:13.480 It's opportunity. So if I fear this for my child, 0:31:13.520 --> 0:31:15.240 I don't want to mess them up. I don't want 0:31:15.280 --> 0:31:16.760 them to go through what I went through. I don't 0:31:16.800 --> 0:31:19.040 want this. It's okay, what do you want? What do 0:31:19.080 --> 0:31:20.680 you want more of? And the more that we focus 0:31:20.720 --> 0:31:23.320 on this opportunity, I want them to have experiences where 0:31:23.320 --> 0:31:25.560 they feel seen and heard and loved. And I want 0:31:25.560 --> 0:31:28.440 them to have experiences where things are challenging but they 0:31:28.520 --> 0:31:30.600 can navigate it and I will be there to support them. 0:31:30.800 --> 0:31:32.920 When we're focused on opportunity. 0:31:32.320 --> 0:31:35.520 It's a whole different game, isn't that Then we see 0:31:35.560 --> 0:31:36.760 all we use this opportunity. 0:31:36.920 --> 0:31:38.840 So then you don't go, oh, I feel so. 0:31:38.880 --> 0:31:40.960 Bad, I'm going to mess up my child because I'm 0:31:40.960 --> 0:31:43.160 going on this holiday and I leaving them behind, and 0:31:43.200 --> 0:31:45.480 they're going to think that I'm just enjoying life without them. 0:31:45.520 --> 0:31:47.280 You'll see it as Wow, this is such a great 0:31:47.320 --> 0:31:48.040 opportunity for. 0:31:48.000 --> 0:31:50.880 Them to have these adventures with another safe family member, 0:31:51.200 --> 0:31:53.120 And it's an opportunity for me to have these adventures, 0:31:53.120 --> 0:31:54.680 and they're not being an opportunity for us to share 0:31:54.760 --> 0:31:55.480 these adventures. 0:31:55.600 --> 0:31:57.880 Like it's a whole different way of approaching life, isn't that? 0:31:58.600 --> 0:31:59.320 Yeah? I like it? 0:31:59.440 --> 0:32:03.240 What about and I know these are just kind of 0:32:03.360 --> 0:32:04.880 I think these are some of the questions. 0:32:04.920 --> 0:32:07.080 I know you there's I ask you. I should say that. 0:32:07.160 --> 0:32:09.800 I know there are no definitive answers, but your thoughts 0:32:09.800 --> 0:32:13.920 on so kids and resilience. Do some kids, clearly at 0:32:13.960 --> 0:32:17.040 five or six, or seven or eight or twelve, are more. 0:32:16.920 --> 0:32:21.960 Resilient than others? Now? Is that about genetics? 0:32:22.240 --> 0:32:25.560 Is that about the environment that they are raised in 0:32:25.600 --> 0:32:29.120 and the parents and the style of parenting, Or is 0:32:29.160 --> 0:32:32.840 it about number three? Is it about the fact that 0:32:32.880 --> 0:32:35.080 those kids have just dealt with shit and had some 0:32:36.160 --> 0:32:40.760 experiences that kind of made them more adaptable, adaptable and 0:32:40.840 --> 0:32:45.480 more flexible and more capable under pressure. So one the parenting, 0:32:46.200 --> 0:32:48.800 the genetics to the parenting style and environment, or. 0:32:48.760 --> 0:32:50.800 Three just going through stuff? 0:32:50.800 --> 0:32:53.520 What do you think is the biggest factor in terms 0:32:53.520 --> 0:32:55.920 of the level of resilience of our kids. 0:32:56.600 --> 0:32:58.640 Well, that's really it's an interesting one because I think 0:32:58.640 --> 0:33:02.280 what we're trying to do now is trying to construct 0:33:02.640 --> 0:33:04.960 resilience and we're trying to monitor it, and this is 0:33:05.000 --> 0:33:06.960 what makes it worse. So as an example, I think 0:33:07.000 --> 0:33:09.880 of this like, what is the concept of resilience. It's 0:33:09.880 --> 0:33:11.520 the ability to get back up again? Right, And no 0:33:11.560 --> 0:33:13.920 matter how many times you fall down, no one's letting 0:33:13.960 --> 0:33:14.480 them fall down. 0:33:14.480 --> 0:33:14.680 Though. 0:33:15.040 --> 0:33:17.160 So I think about saying myself. 0:33:16.800 --> 0:33:19.920 Again with my studying journey, if I was studying in 0:33:19.960 --> 0:33:22.680 the way that I did behind closed doors at home, 0:33:22.680 --> 0:33:24.560 if I was doing it in a classroom, the teachers 0:33:24.560 --> 0:33:25.600 would say, I'm not resilient. 0:33:25.680 --> 0:33:27.000 They'd be like, she's giving up. 0:33:27.520 --> 0:33:30.840 I'm saying I can't do this, I'm stopping, I'm taking breaks, 0:33:30.920 --> 0:33:35.200 i can't focus. So their interpretation would be she's not resilient, 0:33:35.480 --> 0:33:38.400 she's not severing. But you see, when I had my 0:33:38.440 --> 0:33:40.560 own space to do this in the privacy of my 0:33:40.600 --> 0:33:41.960 own home, I stopped. 0:33:42.280 --> 0:33:43.320 I was like, I can't do it. 0:33:43.360 --> 0:33:45.480 I had middle tantrums, I went for a walk, I 0:33:45.480 --> 0:33:47.400 did all the things, but guess what I did when 0:33:47.440 --> 0:33:49.560 no one was around. I got up and I did it. 0:33:50.040 --> 0:33:52.160 And we're not giving kids a space to do that, 0:33:52.280 --> 0:33:54.920 for them to listen to their own internal compass around 0:33:54.960 --> 0:33:59.040 that of them being so internally motivated where they can 0:33:59.080 --> 0:34:01.240 get through it. And so yes, as a child therapist, 0:34:01.280 --> 0:34:03.640 I'd get parents like, my kid's not resilient. Okay, what 0:34:03.680 --> 0:34:05.680 are they doing? And I'm like, this is a path 0:34:05.680 --> 0:34:08.239 towards resilience. You've just you've missed this last step where 0:34:08.239 --> 0:34:11.000 you're not reminding them that bit where they got up again. 0:34:11.800 --> 0:34:12.759 And so it's almost like. 0:34:13.040 --> 0:34:17.879 Yeah, sorry, I was going to say, and again you 0:34:18.520 --> 0:34:20.640 I don't think you or I know the answer to this, 0:34:20.800 --> 0:34:25.040 But thinking out loud, do you think in twenty twenty six, 0:34:25.160 --> 0:34:27.839 let's let's pick an age, like an eight year old 0:34:28.840 --> 0:34:32.160 is in more danger than when I was an eight 0:34:32.239 --> 0:34:35.520 year old one thousand years ago? You know, so I 0:34:35.600 --> 0:34:40.400 was in nineteen seventy one hours eight, right, So you 0:34:40.520 --> 0:34:44.080 go like, I wonder if there are more threats and 0:34:44.200 --> 0:34:46.720 danger as a percentage. 0:34:46.320 --> 0:34:48.839 Now because I remember some of the shit that. 0:34:48.840 --> 0:34:53.359 I did growing up in the bush was pretty fucking dangerous, sincerely, right, 0:34:55.160 --> 0:34:58.279 Or I wonder if there are more external threats now, 0:34:58.400 --> 0:35:02.719 or there's just more awareness or greater attention paid to those. 0:35:02.880 --> 0:35:04.799 I know you don't know the answer, but what do 0:35:04.840 --> 0:35:05.759 you feel about that? 0:35:07.120 --> 0:35:09.440 Oh, when you think about it, We're all living in 0:35:09.480 --> 0:35:11.720 this world where there is actually a lot of threats 0:35:11.719 --> 0:35:15.000 in a lot of different ways, And I think it's 0:35:15.080 --> 0:35:17.960 just tricky balance between being aware of these threats and 0:35:18.000 --> 0:35:20.040 trying to be mindful of safety, but at the same 0:35:20.080 --> 0:35:23.439 time not making this such a fearful world where we're 0:35:23.440 --> 0:35:26.960 scared of doing anything and kids are constantly scanning for safety. Right, 0:35:26.960 --> 0:35:29.880 how do we navigate this? And I think it's this 0:35:30.000 --> 0:35:31.360 is a tricky one. I don't think that there is 0:35:31.400 --> 0:35:33.480 any answer to that, but I think it's important to 0:35:34.360 --> 0:35:38.520 when I look at, say, childhood trauma, the ability to 0:35:38.760 --> 0:35:41.640 feel safe again is actually the healing part. So for 0:35:41.680 --> 0:35:43.560 a lot of kids there in living in that mode 0:35:43.600 --> 0:35:45.600 of scanning for safety and thinking that the world is 0:35:45.640 --> 0:35:47.239 a bad place and they're going to get hurt again, and. 0:35:47.200 --> 0:35:48.360 You kind of want to go the opposite. 0:35:48.440 --> 0:35:50.080 You want to be able to lean into the lightness 0:35:50.080 --> 0:35:51.800 of life and that it is a safe It's almost 0:35:51.800 --> 0:35:53.920 like what you see right is going to be what 0:35:53.960 --> 0:35:56.319 you see, So it's how do we then? I mean, 0:35:56.360 --> 0:35:58.280 if you're sitting there scrolling in the news, the world 0:35:58.280 --> 0:36:00.520 looks excremely scary if you turn them often you're on 0:36:00.560 --> 0:36:02.400 the beach and you're follocking in the water, can you, 0:36:02.600 --> 0:36:04.160 like your whole body feel safe again? 0:36:04.680 --> 0:36:06.680 So it's a balance, and it's really tricky. 0:36:06.680 --> 0:36:08.200 I don't think that there is an answer for that, 0:36:08.280 --> 0:36:11.400 but I think realizing a lot of it is our 0:36:11.440 --> 0:36:14.440 perception too, right. We can create our own realities around 0:36:14.480 --> 0:36:18.840 this based on environments too, which matters. 0:36:19.719 --> 0:36:20.000 Right. 0:36:21.120 --> 0:36:23.960 How much do you think, it's like we're doing a 0:36:23.960 --> 0:36:29.200 grown up interview today, how much do you think good 0:36:29.280 --> 0:36:35.839 parenting or parenting in general is about skill? How much 0:36:35.920 --> 0:36:40.760 is about intuition? How much is about learning by doing? 0:36:41.480 --> 0:36:42.959 And how much is about luck? 0:36:45.040 --> 0:36:47.560 Like or is it? I guess it's all of it. 0:36:47.640 --> 0:36:51.320 But what do you like? Skill, intuition, learning by doing? 0:36:51.480 --> 0:36:51.680 Luck? 0:36:51.760 --> 0:36:53.480 What do you think is the biggest factor? 0:36:54.480 --> 0:36:55.560 I think it's stress. 0:36:55.920 --> 0:36:56.879 I think stress. 0:36:57.320 --> 0:37:00.879 I think yeah, because I mean I think are going 0:37:00.920 --> 0:37:03.200 to parenting skill classes and being like, I don't know 0:37:03.239 --> 0:37:05.439 how to do this, Someone teach me. But I think 0:37:05.480 --> 0:37:09.080 if you really worked on the stress, yep, you become 0:37:09.120 --> 0:37:11.279 more connected to yourself. You know what they need? What 0:37:11.320 --> 0:37:13.239 you need is what they need? Like it actually is 0:37:13.360 --> 0:37:16.640 very intuitive for a lot of parents. It's just they 0:37:16.640 --> 0:37:19.080 don't trust themselves anymore and they're like, what do I say? 0:37:19.120 --> 0:37:21.160 And how do I say it? But if they've really 0:37:21.239 --> 0:37:23.560 dropped kind of the performance and kind of going Okay, 0:37:23.600 --> 0:37:25.120 what they need is what I need? They need safety, 0:37:25.160 --> 0:37:27.440 I need safety, they need this, I need this, you 0:37:27.480 --> 0:37:29.640 would do it in such a more natural way, And 0:37:29.680 --> 0:37:32.400 I think a lot of the time stress blocks it. 0:37:32.440 --> 0:37:34.160 I mean, you could teach someone all the skills in 0:37:34.200 --> 0:37:36.640 the world of parenting, but if they're stressed the kind 0:37:36.719 --> 0:37:38.640 access ay of that, they're operating in a different part 0:37:38.640 --> 0:37:39.160 of their brain. 0:37:39.640 --> 0:37:41.080 So I don't think there's enough. 0:37:41.160 --> 0:37:43.879 Discussion around what stress does to our brain and how 0:37:43.920 --> 0:37:46.080 that puts us in survival mode, and that's why it's 0:37:46.080 --> 0:37:46.920 really hard to parent. 0:37:48.000 --> 0:37:50.880 Do you think that you've got two kids, do you 0:37:50.920 --> 0:37:55.640 think that you were a better mum second time or first? 0:37:55.920 --> 0:37:56.040 Like? 0:37:56.120 --> 0:37:56.720 Do you think. 0:37:58.200 --> 0:38:01.920 Yeah, so, surely like a bit of experience and a 0:38:01.920 --> 0:38:04.560 bit of on the job learning makes you a better parent. 0:38:04.960 --> 0:38:07.840 Like I feel like kids who are in families of 0:38:07.960 --> 0:38:11.319 five or six it's like the six kid almost has 0:38:11.360 --> 0:38:15.680 to raise themselves because they're just like an appendage to 0:38:15.719 --> 0:38:16.360 the family. 0:38:16.600 --> 0:38:18.960 And isn't that interesting though, because it's almost like we 0:38:19.040 --> 0:38:21.160 live in a society where we think the more focus, 0:38:21.239 --> 0:38:24.160 the better, But you're right, it's actually like you realize 0:38:24.200 --> 0:38:26.560 a less focus, they kind of just get to figure 0:38:26.560 --> 0:38:29.439 out things themselves, and it's better for them because we're 0:38:29.440 --> 0:38:33.880 not trying to micromanage their experiences. So not just experience, 0:38:33.920 --> 0:38:36.520 it's almost like the shift of focus. If you've got 0:38:36.719 --> 0:38:39.239 five kids compared to one kid, you can't focus on 0:38:39.280 --> 0:38:41.439 them so in depth, you know, as you would this one. 0:38:41.600 --> 0:38:43.360 So they do get more of a chance to figure 0:38:43.360 --> 0:38:45.440 things out and get support from their siblings and other 0:38:45.480 --> 0:38:46.520 people in their lives. 0:38:47.840 --> 0:38:50.000 So I think that's it. It's not just the experience. 0:38:50.040 --> 0:38:53.600 It's also how the focal point is just not so intense. 0:38:54.360 --> 0:39:01.680 Right when does giving praise from being a good thing too, 0:39:01.719 --> 0:39:03.160 maybe not such a good thing. 0:39:04.440 --> 0:39:05.799 I think both are necessary. 0:39:05.880 --> 0:39:08.120 So we talk, you know, in our child centered play 0:39:08.120 --> 0:39:11.000 therapy and the play therapy filial therapy that we teach 0:39:11.040 --> 0:39:13.480 parents to do at home with their kids, we actually say, 0:39:13.480 --> 0:39:16.200 don't praise and the reason let me talk about why 0:39:16.239 --> 0:39:18.680 praise is good. Of course, I mean, it's just natural. 0:39:18.719 --> 0:39:20.680 You're like, good job. You know that they're looking at 0:39:20.719 --> 0:39:22.440 you for a bit of validation, and you're going, I 0:39:22.480 --> 0:39:24.959 hear you, I see you. That's great, And that works 0:39:25.000 --> 0:39:26.759 in a lot of teaching aspects, and there's a lot 0:39:26.800 --> 0:39:29.799 of research around the positive reinforcement or good But on 0:39:29.840 --> 0:39:33.440 the flip side, when we suspend praise, it gives a 0:39:33.520 --> 0:39:35.680 child an opportunity to think about what do they think 0:39:35.719 --> 0:39:38.319 about that? And you know, it's like do you like 0:39:38.400 --> 0:39:41.200 my picture? It's like, looks like you're wondering what I 0:39:41.200 --> 0:39:44.719 think about your picture? Yep, yes, yeah, And you know, 0:39:44.840 --> 0:39:46.400 so then you stop and you're not praising. You're like, 0:39:46.840 --> 0:39:48.680 and then you give them an opportunity to kind of 0:39:48.680 --> 0:39:51.120 be able to figure out what they feel. It seems 0:39:51.120 --> 0:39:53.080 like you put a lot of effort into that in 0:39:53.120 --> 0:39:56.080 that painting, and they're like yeah, you know, or they 0:39:56.160 --> 0:39:57.799 might be like, oh, I hate it seems like you're 0:39:57.840 --> 0:39:59.320 really disappointed with that painting. 0:39:59.400 --> 0:40:01.799 They're like, so you're not really putting a value point 0:40:01.800 --> 0:40:02.080 on them. 0:40:02.080 --> 0:40:06.640 You're really engaging their internal compass, their internal sense of 0:40:06.680 --> 0:40:08.920 how they see things, and that's really important. So I 0:40:08.960 --> 0:40:12.399 do believe we need to create experiences, and I think again, 0:40:12.440 --> 0:40:15.480 therapeutic plays right for that where we are suspending our 0:40:15.520 --> 0:40:18.640 PreK and we're giving them a chance to utilize their 0:40:18.680 --> 0:40:21.320 own internal motivations compass how they see things. 0:40:22.000 --> 0:40:22.319 I could. 0:40:22.400 --> 0:40:24.160 I just had a picture in my head then of 0:40:24.280 --> 0:40:27.719 me as a parent, which there's a funny thought, but 0:40:27.880 --> 0:40:30.160 my four year old coming up with a painting that 0:40:30.239 --> 0:40:33.399 he did or she did, and me going, well, that's 0:40:33.400 --> 0:40:39.120 fucking terrible, like like, really did you even try? I mean, 0:40:39.160 --> 0:40:42.960 it's out of perspective. For colors are all wrong. You know, 0:40:43.040 --> 0:40:45.920 you've gone over the lines. No, that's probably not the 0:40:46.000 --> 0:40:49.080 go All right, a couple more then I'll let you go. 0:40:50.120 --> 0:40:52.959 I want to talk about something that's spoken about way 0:40:53.000 --> 0:40:56.719 too much, but we've never spoken about it, I don't think, 0:40:56.760 --> 0:41:02.120 and it's generally spoken about in relation to children's slash eight, nine, ten, teenagers. 0:41:03.040 --> 0:41:06.960 What's your vibe because you work a lot with toddlers? 0:41:07.800 --> 0:41:10.440 Am I correct in that as well as older kids? 0:41:10.440 --> 0:41:12.799 But you have two three year olds. 0:41:13.400 --> 0:41:15.560 So play therapy is usually for three plus. 0:41:15.600 --> 0:41:20.600 I would say, yeah, okay, what are your thoughts around 0:41:21.000 --> 0:41:25.000 you know, three year olds and screens like, and I 0:41:25.040 --> 0:41:31.000 know you're not a tech guru and you're not a neurobiologist, 0:41:31.000 --> 0:41:34.080 but you're a psychologist, so you certainly understand the impact 0:41:34.080 --> 0:41:37.359 of a certain stimuli on a human being. Like, when 0:41:37.480 --> 0:41:39.680 is the time where you would say it's okay to 0:41:39.800 --> 0:41:43.359 introduce screens to kids in a controlled way? 0:41:45.960 --> 0:41:49.239 I think this is really tricky because there's obviously so 0:41:49.400 --> 0:41:52.560 much out there around do this, this is how much 0:41:52.560 --> 0:41:56.680 you should use. And I think it's understanding that all 0:41:56.760 --> 0:41:57.799 screen time is not. 0:41:57.880 --> 0:41:59.200 Going to be comparable. 0:41:59.280 --> 0:42:02.960 Right if they're watching something kind of meaningful versus say scrolling, 0:42:03.000 --> 0:42:05.279 it's going to do different things to their brains. I 0:42:05.280 --> 0:42:07.799 think screens can be a really good opportunity. It's the 0:42:07.800 --> 0:42:09.880 way that our world is going. So I think for 0:42:10.560 --> 0:42:12.520 a child not to be able to navigate a computer 0:42:12.600 --> 0:42:15.560 is actually going to be to their disadvantage or to know. 0:42:15.760 --> 0:42:18.600 You know that there is at things on a screen. 0:42:18.880 --> 0:42:20.799 But on the flip side, just like with us, too 0:42:20.880 --> 0:42:25.200 much is you know, it impacts the time outside, it 0:42:25.200 --> 0:42:28.359 impacts are played, impacts creativity and things like that. So 0:42:28.400 --> 0:42:31.200 I think it's probably looking at it more as everything 0:42:31.239 --> 0:42:33.640 in life are balance and kind of going. Okay, So 0:42:33.680 --> 0:42:36.160 screen time isn't just screen time. What is that screen time? 0:42:36.200 --> 0:42:39.480 It's going to be some passive watching a TV. There 0:42:39.520 --> 0:42:41.239 is going to be some app playing, there is going 0:42:41.280 --> 0:42:43.000 to be FaceTime with a family member. 0:42:43.080 --> 0:42:44.520 Like, there's all just different kinds. 0:42:44.520 --> 0:42:47.920 So I think it's it's not so much limiting screen time, 0:42:47.960 --> 0:42:50.000 but it's more I think adding not just that, but 0:42:50.080 --> 0:42:52.680 adding more boundaries with that, or adding more other things 0:42:52.719 --> 0:42:55.239 in their life. So it's just becomes this balance. I 0:42:55.239 --> 0:42:57.719 think for a lot of parents, shutting it off the 0:42:57.719 --> 0:43:00.000 same time of night really works well because a child, 0:43:00.000 --> 0:43:01.560 it's like cool, I can get that out of my memory, 0:43:01.600 --> 0:43:02.640 and then they start. 0:43:02.400 --> 0:43:04.320 To be more creative or doing other things. 0:43:05.280 --> 0:43:08.719 Some parents, you know, have different ways of different days 0:43:08.719 --> 0:43:10.399 where they don't use it. I don't think that there's 0:43:10.400 --> 0:43:12.319 any right or wrong. I think it's just something that 0:43:12.320 --> 0:43:14.560 we're all trying to navigate. Geez, I'm trying to navigate that. 0:43:14.560 --> 0:43:15.360 Right with my phone. 0:43:15.400 --> 0:43:16.960 It's like my best friend. 0:43:17.360 --> 0:43:20.200 Everything's on this little device, and so I think it's 0:43:20.280 --> 0:43:23.720 just trying to know. From a practical point of view too. 0:43:24.520 --> 0:43:29.880 I think, like many things like food, like drugs, like exercise, 0:43:30.560 --> 0:43:32.319 it's dose dependent. 0:43:32.360 --> 0:43:36.040 You know, it's not that's a good one for it. 0:43:36.040 --> 0:43:39.680 It's dose dependent. It's not about is phone use bad, 0:43:39.719 --> 0:43:41.200 it's like how much is bad? 0:43:41.880 --> 0:43:42.759 Or is you know? 0:43:43.040 --> 0:43:45.600 So yeah, that makes sense, all right. Last one for 0:43:45.640 --> 0:43:51.280 the minute. What's the consequence of kids being around parents 0:43:51.280 --> 0:43:53.000 who argue? 0:43:54.400 --> 0:43:58.520 Yeah, that's a tricky Yeah, that's a tricky one because 0:43:59.600 --> 0:44:01.879 the arguing can happen in different ways. 0:44:02.000 --> 0:44:03.560 Arguing could be their to all. 0:44:04.600 --> 0:44:09.239 I'm not talking about domestic violence or scream or screaming. 0:44:09.640 --> 0:44:12.960 I'm just talking about mum and dad disagreeing and getting 0:44:12.960 --> 0:44:15.600 a little bit grumpy at each other. And I'm not 0:44:15.640 --> 0:44:19.600 talking about a DV or anything horrible, but just general, 0:44:20.280 --> 0:44:22.520 you know, knowing mum's a bit mad at dad or 0:44:22.600 --> 0:44:25.120 vice versa, or all that normal human stuff. 0:44:25.560 --> 0:44:25.920 Yeah. 0:44:26.200 --> 0:44:29.160 See, and that stuff can be good because what they're 0:44:29.200 --> 0:44:32.120 seeing is that two people can see things differently and 0:44:32.160 --> 0:44:36.399 that's really anticipated And what does that conflict resolution look like? Right, 0:44:36.680 --> 0:44:39.200 and being able to separate themselves from the problem and 0:44:39.280 --> 0:44:40.919 kind of going no, I want this and I want 0:44:40.960 --> 0:44:42.880 that and how that plays out. I think that that 0:44:42.920 --> 0:44:45.120 can be really healthy because that's a reality. Right, We're 0:44:45.160 --> 0:44:47.480 always going to have conflict in some kind of way, 0:44:47.520 --> 0:44:49.880 whether it's with a colleague, whether it's in your workplace, 0:44:50.000 --> 0:44:52.759 whether it's with friends, and how do kids learn how 0:44:52.760 --> 0:44:55.720 to navigate that without seeing it? I think what gets 0:44:55.760 --> 0:44:58.680 hard is that often we don't have good conflict resolution 0:44:58.760 --> 0:45:03.040 skills at all, witnessed our own adults in our life, 0:45:03.200 --> 0:45:06.960 parents or people do it in very different ways, and 0:45:07.040 --> 0:45:09.439 that's what comes out right. So you know, that's when 0:45:09.480 --> 0:45:11.839 parents kind of go into name calling, into other kind 0:45:11.840 --> 0:45:13.799 of things, so and. 0:45:13.800 --> 0:45:15.000 Then the shame kind of hits. 0:45:15.040 --> 0:45:17.520 And so for them to actually really dig down and go, 0:45:17.600 --> 0:45:19.680 what do I do in moments of conflict? Do I 0:45:19.719 --> 0:45:23.200 shut down? Do I try and fight back verbally? Do 0:45:23.280 --> 0:45:24.120 I freeze? 0:45:25.800 --> 0:45:28.160 And being able to go what does that repair look like? 0:45:28.239 --> 0:45:29.920 How am I actually in real time going to be 0:45:29.920 --> 0:45:30.160 doing that? 0:45:30.200 --> 0:45:32.200 I think it's really good for kids to see repaired too, 0:45:32.280 --> 0:45:35.160 because what happens for a lot of kids. They may 0:45:35.239 --> 0:45:36.879 see something and then it's like and no one talks 0:45:36.920 --> 0:45:38.759 about it again, and then they just pretend and then 0:45:38.800 --> 0:45:41.160 everything's okay after a few days of silence or in 0:45:41.239 --> 0:45:42.359 hours of silence. 0:45:42.040 --> 0:45:42.719 Or whatever, that is. 0:45:43.719 --> 0:45:45.759 So for them to actually see what does repair look like? 0:45:45.800 --> 0:45:47.359 How can we come back from that? And I think 0:45:47.360 --> 0:45:49.239 a lot of parents have shame around that, which is 0:45:49.280 --> 0:45:50.560 why they don't do their repair. 0:45:51.040 --> 0:45:52.359 So it's a really tricky. 0:45:52.040 --> 0:45:54.239 One, isn't it, Because I don't think a lot of 0:45:54.280 --> 0:45:56.880 people can manage conflicts, well, none of us, you know, 0:45:57.000 --> 0:45:58.040 we're all still learning this. 0:45:58.200 --> 0:46:00.360 So it's how do we then show kids? How do 0:46:00.400 --> 0:46:01.360 we teach kids out? 0:46:02.440 --> 0:46:05.480 Yeah? The more you talk, the more questions I have. 0:46:05.480 --> 0:46:07.239 Have you got time for two more? Yeah? 0:46:07.360 --> 0:46:07.640 Both? 0:46:08.160 --> 0:46:11.680 All right? Is boredom a bad thing for kids? 0:46:11.719 --> 0:46:14.600 Like? Is that the enemy? Do they always have to 0:46:14.640 --> 0:46:19.480 be you know, entertained and amused and occupied? And like, 0:46:19.719 --> 0:46:22.839 is it okay for kids to just go through some boredom? 0:46:23.360 --> 0:46:23.560 Oh? 0:46:23.640 --> 0:46:27.759 I think the bottom actually creates so much opportunities for 0:46:27.800 --> 0:46:30.360 creativity when they get that. But it's just hard to 0:46:30.440 --> 0:46:34.839 create the circumstances where they can get bored in our society, right, 0:46:34.840 --> 0:46:36.960 there's always things to do. There's like, you know, you've 0:46:37.000 --> 0:46:39.000 got the sports, and then you've got these playdids, and 0:46:39.080 --> 0:46:41.400 then you've got devices. So I think it is really 0:46:41.400 --> 0:46:44.600 important to create structure and that where you can actually go. 0:46:45.200 --> 0:46:48.000 We literally got shut down for this period of time, 0:46:48.080 --> 0:46:50.239 and so you're kind of creating conditions for kids to 0:46:50.320 --> 0:46:52.399 feel bored because and it's like, okay, what do they 0:46:52.400 --> 0:46:55.239 do with that boredom? And it's a good skill to 0:46:55.719 --> 0:46:58.720 be able to have because as adults, right, we also 0:46:58.760 --> 0:47:02.160 want to be able to tolerate boredom as well. 0:47:03.560 --> 0:47:06.080 Last one, which is quite a selfish question because it's 0:47:06.120 --> 0:47:10.040 in my kind of my wheelhouse a little bit, but 0:47:10.160 --> 0:47:10.840 not with kids. 0:47:10.880 --> 0:47:12.000 Right, So you're the expert. 0:47:14.320 --> 0:47:17.279 So we know that there's a thing in sight called 0:47:17.320 --> 0:47:20.000 theory of mind, which for our listeners you probably know 0:47:20.000 --> 0:47:22.640 because you heard me, is really just trying to understand 0:47:22.680 --> 0:47:25.880 how other people think, having an awareness around others, the 0:47:25.880 --> 0:47:30.319 way that other people experience the world. We know that 0:47:30.320 --> 0:47:35.400 that kids tend to have a degree of theory of 0:47:35.440 --> 0:47:38.040 mind around two, three, four, am I? 0:47:38.160 --> 0:47:38.680 Right? Sam? 0:47:38.800 --> 0:47:41.279 Is it like when they start to realize that other 0:47:41.320 --> 0:47:44.400 people think differently to them and that their experience is 0:47:44.440 --> 0:47:45.040 not the same. 0:47:45.360 --> 0:47:48.160 I think it's on top of my head think I 0:47:48.160 --> 0:47:49.959 think it's around That sounds legit. 0:47:50.440 --> 0:47:54.959 I think it's around three or four. You know, when 0:47:55.000 --> 0:48:01.319 do you think kids start to become self aware and 0:48:01.440 --> 0:48:06.040 start to form an identity? This is very complicated questions, 0:48:06.080 --> 0:48:09.359 so I just want your thoughts, like, when do we 0:48:09.440 --> 0:48:13.719 start to feel like we have an identity. I am this, 0:48:13.960 --> 0:48:18.600 I am that, because I think it's not something I 0:48:18.640 --> 0:48:18.920 don't know. 0:48:18.920 --> 0:48:20.160 I feel like this little. 0:48:19.920 --> 0:48:24.120 Identity emerges over time, but it's not something that we 0:48:24.239 --> 0:48:28.680 ever really consciously kind of chose or navigated necessarily. 0:48:29.719 --> 0:48:33.160 No, And obviously different theories see this in different ways. 0:48:33.560 --> 0:48:37.120 One of the theories I'm thinking of is around childhood 0:48:37.120 --> 0:48:40.240 development and talk about different conflicts happening at different stages 0:48:40.280 --> 0:48:42.799 of a child's life. And so you know, you've got 0:48:42.840 --> 0:48:47.120 like the autonomy right conflict there for Toddler's whether like 0:48:47.120 --> 0:48:49.080 I want to be myself more and I want to 0:48:49.120 --> 0:48:51.680 own thing. But the identity stuff actually comes more out 0:48:51.680 --> 0:48:57.560 in the teenage, So that's interesting around ye who am 0:48:57.560 --> 0:48:59.000 I and where do I fit in this world? Is 0:48:59.000 --> 0:49:02.359 probably the teenage element, but I think throughout childhood they 0:49:02.360 --> 0:49:04.839 are doing it in little ways too, you know, in 0:49:04.920 --> 0:49:06.319 terms of school and friendships. 0:49:06.440 --> 0:49:08.040 But as adults we're still doing that as well. 0:49:08.080 --> 0:49:10.400 And so you know, what people see is like midlife 0:49:10.440 --> 0:49:13.040 crisises is actually it serves a purpose and kind of 0:49:13.080 --> 0:49:14.759 going and you see this a lot in mid life. 0:49:14.760 --> 0:49:16.440 It's like, hang on, I think I've been playing to 0:49:16.480 --> 0:49:19.080 someone else's script or well, I think I should be 0:49:19.080 --> 0:49:20.800 doing all other people's expectations. 0:49:20.840 --> 0:49:21.799 What do I want to do? 0:49:22.200 --> 0:49:25.000 So even a period like that actually serves a really 0:49:25.040 --> 0:49:28.000 good purpose because it's like they're becoming more of themselves. 0:49:28.080 --> 0:49:30.959 So I think we shouldn't. I think we're always doing 0:49:30.960 --> 0:49:32.840 that in little ways, and I think it is really 0:49:32.880 --> 0:49:34.879 good at a younger age to be able to slight 0:49:34.960 --> 0:49:39.040 these conversations around that where identities aren't just roles, they 0:49:39.080 --> 0:49:39.840 go deeper than that. 0:49:40.640 --> 0:49:45.919 Yeah, yeah, right, last one promise promise. So we talk 0:49:45.960 --> 0:49:49.120 a lot about in twenty twenty six. We talk about 0:49:49.160 --> 0:49:54.279 psychological safety, yeah, and creating safe spaces and all of that, 0:49:54.360 --> 0:49:59.920 which thumbs up. But does our focus on creating psycho 0:50:00.080 --> 0:50:03.359 logical safety for our kids come at the cost of 0:50:04.080 --> 0:50:07.520 psychological adaptability and flexibility? 0:50:07.719 --> 0:50:09.960 Yes? I think so. 0:50:10.480 --> 0:50:12.600 I think we've almost like gone the other way, haven't 0:50:12.600 --> 0:50:13.319 we with that? 0:50:14.440 --> 0:50:18.800 And I don't think we're putting. 0:50:18.640 --> 0:50:23.400 Enough focus on Like you said, I think psychological flexibility 0:50:23.480 --> 0:50:26.160 should be more for a focus than psychological. 0:50:25.520 --> 0:50:27.680 Safety because egal. 0:50:27.280 --> 0:50:30.000 Flexibility includes the safety, but it also includes them to 0:50:30.040 --> 0:50:35.000 be a bit more, not just adaptable. We're acknowledging the 0:50:35.040 --> 0:50:36.920 boundaries that need to be set with certain things. We're 0:50:36.920 --> 0:50:39.919 acknowledging that it's like this and this potentially it's not. 0:50:39.880 --> 0:50:41.839 Just one way. It's almost like. 0:50:43.360 --> 0:50:46.640 It's almost like parents trying to, you know, validate kids 0:50:46.640 --> 0:50:50.200 feelings twenty four seven. They end up just becoming it's 0:50:50.200 --> 0:50:53.880 almost like a robotic about it, right, actually going. 0:50:53.680 --> 0:50:55.800 Nope, this is the time. I'm definitely going to provide 0:50:55.840 --> 0:50:56.480 this experience. 0:50:56.520 --> 0:50:58.320 But then I also need to like shift my focus 0:50:58.360 --> 0:51:00.239 away from that and give them a chance to be 0:51:00.280 --> 0:51:03.360 able to navigate this themselves. And there's boundaries around that. 0:51:03.520 --> 0:51:05.480 So I think we've definitely gone the other way with that, 0:51:05.880 --> 0:51:08.520 and I think psychological flexibility needs to be more of 0:51:08.560 --> 0:51:09.360 a key focus. 0:51:10.040 --> 0:51:13.360 And I feel like if we allow kids to have experiences, 0:51:13.520 --> 0:51:16.479 you know, obviously we're watching, we're around, but we allow 0:51:16.520 --> 0:51:20.759 them to have experiences and encounters and moments and solve problems, 0:51:22.239 --> 0:51:29.400 which develops their psychological flexibility, then their threshold for dealing 0:51:29.440 --> 0:51:33.400 with hard stuff like their psychological safety. 0:51:33.520 --> 0:51:37.160 Kind of what am I saying. 0:51:37.239 --> 0:51:40.960 I'm saying that in certain environments which would freak another 0:51:41.120 --> 0:51:43.920 five year old out, this five year old might be 0:51:44.000 --> 0:51:47.759 comfortable because she's been doing all of this stuff to 0:51:47.920 --> 0:51:51.799 just deal with the complexity or some of the complexity 0:51:51.880 --> 0:51:56.640 or discomfort of growing up in the world. Whereas when 0:51:56.680 --> 0:51:59.680 we're putting them in this little kind of I guess 0:52:00.120 --> 0:52:03.360 up well intended bubble where we're kind of we're running 0:52:03.400 --> 0:52:05.879 the offense all the time or the defense all the time, 0:52:05.880 --> 0:52:08.839 I should say, and we're always doing everything so they 0:52:08.880 --> 0:52:11.319 don't have to feel anything bad or they don't have 0:52:11.400 --> 0:52:15.320 to have any uncomfortable experience, Like we're putting a limit 0:52:15.400 --> 0:52:17.799 on their capacity. So when they get pushed out of 0:52:17.840 --> 0:52:21.920 home into school with thirty other kids, all of a sudden, 0:52:22.000 --> 0:52:25.320 in this room with a teacher, that's attention has divided 0:52:25.400 --> 0:52:27.560 thirty ways or whatever the number is. 0:52:27.600 --> 0:52:28.240 Twenty ways. 0:52:29.040 --> 0:52:32.319 Yeah, I feel like I think that is a thing 0:52:32.360 --> 0:52:35.960 that's been maybe pushed into the background a little bit 0:52:36.040 --> 0:52:39.480 as we've honed in on this obsession we have with 0:52:39.560 --> 0:52:40.800 psychological safety. 0:52:41.200 --> 0:52:43.000 Yes, and like you said, you were saying, you know 0:52:43.320 --> 0:52:44.960 us being there, we're actually not there. Like if you 0:52:45.000 --> 0:52:48.359 think about school, right, they're in pre primacyarily one, you're 0:52:48.360 --> 0:52:50.800 not a teacher's not there to hear every single conversation 0:52:50.880 --> 0:52:53.880 in the playground, and so there is this I guess 0:52:54.120 --> 0:52:56.480 we want to equip children with the skills of like, 0:52:56.880 --> 0:52:58.800 not everyone is going to like you, Like, no, everyone 0:52:58.880 --> 0:53:01.040 likes us as adults, to have those colleagues that you're 0:53:01.040 --> 0:53:02.520 closer to and the ones that you don't. You don't 0:53:02.520 --> 0:53:04.440 have to play with everyone. You don't have to invite 0:53:04.480 --> 0:53:07.600 everyone to your parties. And if once there's something that 0:53:07.600 --> 0:53:09.880 they don't like, yeah, you could go tell the teacher, 0:53:10.000 --> 0:53:11.319 but you could also just not play with them and 0:53:11.360 --> 0:53:13.840 walk away like that's okay too, right, So it's almost 0:53:13.880 --> 0:53:17.040 like getting them in this permission to be like, yeah, 0:53:17.239 --> 0:53:19.359 this is kind of what happens, and people are going 0:53:19.400 --> 0:53:20.960 to say things that we don't like, and what do 0:53:20.960 --> 0:53:21.520 we do with that? 0:53:21.719 --> 0:53:23.200 So you're right, I think we're not. 0:53:23.400 --> 0:53:27.880 Really It's almost like the zero tolerance of bullying in schools. 0:53:27.960 --> 0:53:31.239 I think both contributes to this issue, because there is 0:53:31.320 --> 0:53:33.480 bullying in where places there is no such thing as 0:53:33.520 --> 0:53:35.960 a zero like there will never be zero bullying. 0:53:36.040 --> 0:53:39.080 If anything. It's not labeling people as you're a bully 0:53:39.080 --> 0:53:39.480 and you're not. 0:53:39.560 --> 0:53:41.719 It's kind of going these are what behaviors kind of 0:53:41.760 --> 0:53:44.440 constitute is that? And these are the thing we can 0:53:44.480 --> 0:53:45.920 do to move away from it? And I think if 0:53:45.920 --> 0:53:48.799 we normalize that more than everyone's got the capacity to 0:53:48.960 --> 0:53:52.240 use bullying type behaviors, then we'll give children, will equip 0:53:52.280 --> 0:53:54.319 them more with actually managing that, and that's going to 0:53:54.320 --> 0:53:56.080 help them when they're an adult, rather than going zero 0:53:56.120 --> 0:53:57.160 tolerance shut down. 0:53:57.360 --> 0:53:58.760 This doesn't exist. 0:53:59.239 --> 0:54:00.720 Yeah, yeah, I get it. 0:54:00.840 --> 0:54:03.719 Beautiful, get off my slavebox now, No, I love it. 0:54:03.800 --> 0:54:07.000 That was one of my favorite chats with you. What 0:54:07.040 --> 0:54:08.800 do you want to point people towards? Where do you 0:54:08.840 --> 0:54:12.799 want to steer people to your website or your your 0:54:12.840 --> 0:54:13.440 work or. 0:54:13.960 --> 0:54:16.800 So my Instagram is Dr Sam Casey or my website 0:54:16.840 --> 0:54:20.280 which is dr Samcasey dot com. I have a actually 0:54:20.280 --> 0:54:24.040 your course coming up which is around breaking cycles without 0:54:24.080 --> 0:54:26.759 breaking yourself. So I talk about some of those things 0:54:26.760 --> 0:54:28.480 that we've mentioned here around that I don't want to 0:54:28.480 --> 0:54:29.680 mess up my kid. 0:54:29.560 --> 0:54:30.240 Kind of cycle? 0:54:31.160 --> 0:54:32.800 Is that online or face to face? 0:54:32.880 --> 0:54:33.640 It's online? 0:54:34.120 --> 0:54:35.920 Oh, kitty up, but a cup that's great. 0:54:36.320 --> 0:54:39.200 Yeah, we'll say goodbye a fair but Sam, appreciate you 0:54:39.320 --> 0:54:41.239 and keep doing the great work you do. 0:54:41.760 --> 0:54:42.880 Thanks you too, Craig