1 00:00:10,800 --> 00:00:13,880 Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to The Australian's Money Puzzle podcast. I'm 2 00:00:13,960 --> 00:00:18,840 Speaker 1: James Kirby. Welcome aboard everybody. Now tomorrow Friday. The Rich 3 00:00:18,960 --> 00:00:23,480 Speaker 1: two fifty, the nation's Rich list, is published by The Australian, 4 00:00:24,239 --> 00:00:27,880 Speaker 1: and I want to ask my special guest, John Stencil, 5 00:00:27,920 --> 00:00:30,520 Speaker 1: who is the editor of The Rich two fifty, what 6 00:00:30,640 --> 00:00:34,800 Speaker 1: the traits are in common? What traits do these people, 7 00:00:34,840 --> 00:00:38,959 Speaker 1: these two hundred and fifty people who have amassed enormous fortunes, 8 00:00:39,000 --> 00:00:40,720 Speaker 1: what do they have in common? And we're going to 9 00:00:40,760 --> 00:00:45,040 Speaker 1: map those traits against particular characters who've arrived on the list. 10 00:00:45,080 --> 00:00:47,280 Speaker 1: It's going to be fascinating. It always is when I 11 00:00:47,320 --> 00:00:50,120 Speaker 1: have you on the show. John, How are you very well? James, 12 00:00:50,200 --> 00:00:54,880 Speaker 1: very well. You're in your nationwide multi state publicity carnival 13 00:00:55,760 --> 00:00:57,560 Speaker 1: what you do each year for the Rich too fifty, 14 00:00:57,600 --> 00:00:59,360 Speaker 1: which is great. And I've got the magazine in front 15 00:00:59,360 --> 00:01:01,360 Speaker 1: of me. You can hear me leafing through the pages here, 16 00:01:01,400 --> 00:01:06,039 Speaker 1: the gloss the glossy pages, folks of the magazine, which 17 00:01:06,080 --> 00:01:11,119 Speaker 1: comes out as I say, today, Friday, the twentieth of March. Now, John, 18 00:01:11,280 --> 00:01:13,759 Speaker 1: I mean you you're much deeper into this, but certain 19 00:01:13,959 --> 00:01:18,080 Speaker 1: sort of commonality sort of struck me. A psychotic approach 20 00:01:18,120 --> 00:01:21,040 Speaker 1: to work, That's definitely one. We'll talk about that in 21 00:01:21,080 --> 00:01:23,360 Speaker 1: the moment. Who might sort of come to the party 22 00:01:23,400 --> 00:01:25,479 Speaker 1: on that one? A few other things though, Like I mean, 23 00:01:25,680 --> 00:01:29,119 Speaker 1: was there it seems to me behind the behind the lines, 24 00:01:29,120 --> 00:01:31,840 Speaker 1: there's a lot of couples that now was there always 25 00:01:31,840 --> 00:01:33,600 Speaker 1: a lot of couples that start with that one? The 26 00:01:33,720 --> 00:01:36,840 Speaker 1: sort of that maybe a trait? Will you tell me? 27 00:01:37,120 --> 00:01:40,280 Speaker 1: But is it a trait that it's often now and 28 00:01:40,360 --> 00:01:44,280 Speaker 1: more often now couple power really at the top end 29 00:01:44,319 --> 00:01:46,679 Speaker 1: of the list, especially with the newer you know, once 30 00:01:46,760 --> 00:01:49,040 Speaker 1: upon a time it was always jackal John was inveriably male, 31 00:01:49,240 --> 00:01:51,200 Speaker 1: and I see that more and more of the newer 32 00:01:51,360 --> 00:01:53,840 Speaker 1: entries are couples and declared as such. 33 00:01:54,000 --> 00:01:55,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, so I think it's the couples that go into 34 00:01:55,720 --> 00:01:58,120 Speaker 2: business together, right, So the husband and wafted you as 35 00:01:58,240 --> 00:02:02,160 Speaker 2: usually and they well, it seems to be so far 36 00:02:02,520 --> 00:02:06,440 Speaker 2: that their marriages or their partnership survive and their business 37 00:02:06,440 --> 00:02:09,160 Speaker 2: partnerships survive as well. So look, there's probably ups and 38 00:02:09,240 --> 00:02:11,360 Speaker 2: downs in both, right, but yeah, there's definitely the case 39 00:02:11,560 --> 00:02:13,880 Speaker 2: when Canva is the clear example with Melanie Perkins in 40 00:02:13,880 --> 00:02:17,640 Speaker 2: cliff over Breath. They have an incredible global business. But 41 00:02:17,800 --> 00:02:19,919 Speaker 2: there is some others as well that are coming through, 42 00:02:20,000 --> 00:02:23,880 Speaker 2: like Daniel and Georgia Kontos, which is White Fox boutique. James, 43 00:02:24,120 --> 00:02:26,040 Speaker 2: you are, you're a fashionable fellow, but I don't know 44 00:02:26,120 --> 00:02:26,960 Speaker 2: if you are aware of all. 45 00:02:27,120 --> 00:02:30,480 Speaker 1: Yes, I'm head to two and fight Fox. No I'm not, 46 00:02:30,600 --> 00:02:33,840 Speaker 1: but I do see the advertising John and so. 47 00:02:33,800 --> 00:02:36,600 Speaker 2: They're literally working together and you know, obviously in the 48 00:02:36,639 --> 00:02:39,160 Speaker 2: cases of the contost is buying huge mansions together, two 49 00:02:39,200 --> 00:02:42,200 Speaker 2: to live in. So look, that's the ultimates of work 50 00:02:42,240 --> 00:02:44,480 Speaker 2: home balance or something like that, work and life balance. 51 00:02:44,520 --> 00:02:45,440 Speaker 1: So that's yeah. 52 00:02:45,520 --> 00:02:48,119 Speaker 2: Look, there's always been people who have gone into partnership 53 00:02:48,120 --> 00:02:50,640 Speaker 2: in business, you know, whether it's your business partners, right, 54 00:02:50,760 --> 00:02:53,000 Speaker 2: co CEOs or co founders. There's a lot of those, 55 00:02:53,080 --> 00:02:55,839 Speaker 2: but there's an increasing amount of marriages that definitely bleed 56 00:02:55,919 --> 00:02:56,760 Speaker 2: into business too. 57 00:02:57,520 --> 00:03:00,680 Speaker 1: And mail coppers. You know, I searched like Mike cannon 58 00:03:00,720 --> 00:03:03,440 Speaker 1: Brooks and Scott Farkhar obviously at the very top there. 59 00:03:03,760 --> 00:03:08,080 Speaker 1: And it's interesting some of the older people on the 60 00:03:08,120 --> 00:03:10,960 Speaker 1: list as well. So there is that I suppose support 61 00:03:11,040 --> 00:03:13,640 Speaker 1: from a partner, but I mentioned at the start of 62 00:03:13,639 --> 00:03:17,680 Speaker 1: the cycle work ethic. You've got a profile of this guy. 63 00:03:18,680 --> 00:03:24,400 Speaker 1: He is in Florida, Gowana funds management. Tell us about 64 00:03:24,480 --> 00:03:27,639 Speaker 1: him and tell us about his regime, which I must 65 00:03:27,680 --> 00:03:30,120 Speaker 1: say I would love to invest in him. I don't 66 00:03:30,200 --> 00:03:32,760 Speaker 1: know if he'd be much fun to be with, really, 67 00:03:33,160 --> 00:03:35,440 Speaker 1: since he works from he says from four in the 68 00:03:35,480 --> 00:03:39,000 Speaker 1: morning till six in the evening, three hundred and sixty 69 00:03:39,040 --> 00:03:41,720 Speaker 1: four days a year, and kind of cools it off 70 00:03:41,760 --> 00:03:43,480 Speaker 1: a bit on Christmas Day. Tell us about him. 71 00:03:43,560 --> 00:03:46,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, he makes Christmas lunch at James. But yeah, the 72 00:03:46,200 --> 00:03:49,320 Speaker 2: guy's name is Robert Hillmer, and I'm really really fruscinated 73 00:03:49,320 --> 00:03:51,800 Speaker 2: with him because he's he's gone to America and made 74 00:03:51,840 --> 00:03:54,440 Speaker 2: a success of himself. Right, he's in funds management, going 75 00:03:54,480 --> 00:03:57,160 Speaker 2: to capital. He invests in a lot of early stage 76 00:03:57,200 --> 00:03:59,720 Speaker 2: or pre IPO tech companies. So obviously there's been a 77 00:03:59,760 --> 00:04:02,640 Speaker 2: lot of those that have gone extremely well. But he's 78 00:04:03,040 --> 00:04:06,280 Speaker 2: clearly a very regimented and disciplined person and he calls 79 00:04:06,280 --> 00:04:10,000 Speaker 2: it his foundation of success. Now, what's the foundation of success? 80 00:04:10,280 --> 00:04:14,600 Speaker 2: He gets up at four o'clock pretty much walks out 81 00:04:14,600 --> 00:04:17,560 Speaker 2: the door straight away. No shower, doesn't check his forwhad 82 00:04:17,600 --> 00:04:19,400 Speaker 2: you know? People work up and they check their phone 83 00:04:19,440 --> 00:04:21,480 Speaker 2: and check their stocks or whatever they do. He doesn't 84 00:04:21,480 --> 00:04:23,400 Speaker 2: do that. He gets up, he's out the door within 85 00:04:23,440 --> 00:04:27,120 Speaker 2: five minutes. He's got the same clothes laid out every day, 86 00:04:27,360 --> 00:04:30,520 Speaker 2: you know, so sneakers now he's in Florida, right, so shorts, 87 00:04:30,760 --> 00:04:32,880 Speaker 2: t shirt. He's also in the tech world. So he's 88 00:04:33,080 --> 00:04:36,200 Speaker 2: looking pretty cool too. How he goes gets to the office. Now, 89 00:04:36,240 --> 00:04:38,560 Speaker 2: this is when he starts working. But the difference is 90 00:04:39,080 --> 00:04:41,800 Speaker 2: that he's doing it between the hot it's the hot 91 00:04:41,800 --> 00:04:43,960 Speaker 2: and cold treatment, right, So he's got the infrared going 92 00:04:44,200 --> 00:04:46,040 Speaker 2: and he gets into the sauna. But because he's got 93 00:04:46,040 --> 00:04:48,200 Speaker 2: the Wi Fi in there, and even if he's sitting 94 00:04:48,200 --> 00:04:51,560 Speaker 2: there in four four degrees sort of cool, you know, 95 00:04:51,600 --> 00:04:53,839 Speaker 2: he's still checking his phone then and he's working then. 96 00:04:54,000 --> 00:04:55,520 Speaker 2: So so he's got that sort. 97 00:04:55,320 --> 00:04:57,200 Speaker 1: Of physical it's working in disauna. 98 00:04:57,279 --> 00:04:58,839 Speaker 2: He's got the physical discipline to do that. 99 00:05:00,040 --> 00:05:01,680 Speaker 1: And he works from four and the more until six 100 00:05:01,720 --> 00:05:04,520 Speaker 1: in the evening. It's amazing, isn't it? But you know, 101 00:05:04,680 --> 00:05:06,800 Speaker 1: I wonder what do you think of this? I do 102 00:05:06,880 --> 00:05:10,200 Speaker 1: think that people who work like that, and we can 103 00:05:10,760 --> 00:05:13,560 Speaker 1: map this onto our listeners. By that, I mean we 104 00:05:13,640 --> 00:05:15,960 Speaker 1: don't all have to make eight hundred million or eighty million. 105 00:05:16,000 --> 00:05:17,920 Speaker 1: But it does strike me if you work like that. 106 00:05:18,760 --> 00:05:24,080 Speaker 1: I see little shops around the city and sometimes you 107 00:05:24,200 --> 00:05:26,160 Speaker 1: see a shop and you say, oh, that's not going 108 00:05:26,240 --> 00:05:28,279 Speaker 1: to work, and then it surprises you and then you 109 00:05:28,360 --> 00:05:32,640 Speaker 1: realize the person is there every day down't to dusk. 110 00:05:32,720 --> 00:05:35,159 Speaker 1: They never chose. Sometimes they work Saturday six days. I 111 00:05:35,160 --> 00:05:37,240 Speaker 1: can think of people who work six and a half days, 112 00:05:37,600 --> 00:05:39,920 Speaker 1: and I think in a way, if you work like that, 113 00:05:40,520 --> 00:05:43,640 Speaker 1: you're unlikely to fail really, and then these guys maybe 114 00:05:43,720 --> 00:05:46,919 Speaker 1: parlay it at an extraordinary exponential level. So there's that 115 00:05:47,080 --> 00:05:50,400 Speaker 1: really extraordinarily hard work and resilience as it seems to 116 00:05:50,400 --> 00:05:53,719 Speaker 1: be a common trait. You have Roberts there as well, 117 00:05:54,360 --> 00:05:56,520 Speaker 1: and that's an interesting story. Just tell us a little 118 00:05:56,520 --> 00:05:59,640 Speaker 1: bit about that aspect of hard work and resilience with him, 119 00:05:59,680 --> 00:06:02,680 Speaker 1: because he was in some way it's a lucky He 120 00:06:02,800 --> 00:06:04,719 Speaker 1: was a lucky guy. He was a door he was 121 00:06:04,760 --> 00:06:07,920 Speaker 1: the son of a tycoon. He need not have worked 122 00:06:07,960 --> 00:06:09,840 Speaker 1: as he does work. Tell us a little about him 123 00:06:09,839 --> 00:06:10,320 Speaker 1: and who he is. 124 00:06:10,360 --> 00:06:12,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, Tim Roberts. He's the son of John Roberts, a 125 00:06:12,360 --> 00:06:15,719 Speaker 2: Multiplex founder. So Multiplex big and massive construction company that 126 00:06:15,800 --> 00:06:17,839 Speaker 2: was founded in Perth by his late father. Back in 127 00:06:17,880 --> 00:06:21,200 Speaker 2: the day. They pretty well known for constructing the Wembley Stadium, 128 00:06:21,320 --> 00:06:23,640 Speaker 2: the new Wembley Stadium in London and actually losing because 129 00:06:23,640 --> 00:06:25,560 Speaker 2: the disaster, losing a bit of doe on that, and 130 00:06:25,800 --> 00:06:28,279 Speaker 2: the family themselves actually were well, you know, they felt 131 00:06:28,320 --> 00:06:29,680 Speaker 2: bad about it, so to speak, and they put in 132 00:06:29,680 --> 00:06:31,800 Speaker 2: fifty million dollars of their own money to sort of 133 00:06:31,839 --> 00:06:34,520 Speaker 2: you know, shore it up. Yeah. Look, Tim, he doesn't 134 00:06:34,560 --> 00:06:36,880 Speaker 2: need to work, you right, He's got Warburton, which is 135 00:06:36,920 --> 00:06:40,159 Speaker 2: his investment and sort of philanthropic business. He broke his 136 00:06:40,279 --> 00:06:42,760 Speaker 2: private jet deals, He's invested in a lot of companies. 137 00:06:42,760 --> 00:06:45,159 Speaker 2: He does a lot of private equity and other investment stuff. 138 00:06:45,200 --> 00:06:47,560 Speaker 2: So look, he's someone that sort of jets around as 139 00:06:47,560 --> 00:06:50,359 Speaker 2: well literally and also does a lot of philanthropic stuff 140 00:06:50,360 --> 00:06:52,520 Speaker 2: back in Perth. Now, you know, the telephon's a huge 141 00:06:52,520 --> 00:06:55,080 Speaker 2: thing in Perth. Kerry Stokes runs and Kerry's actually but 142 00:06:55,120 --> 00:06:58,240 Speaker 2: you know, said some very kind things about Tim. He's 143 00:06:58,240 --> 00:06:59,880 Speaker 2: got a bit of a mixed reputation. But I think 144 00:07:00,160 --> 00:07:02,520 Speaker 2: a Kidney's story in the addition sort of draws out, 145 00:07:02,680 --> 00:07:03,920 Speaker 2: you know, a bit of the sort of good side 146 00:07:03,960 --> 00:07:05,360 Speaker 2: about him and a bit of that sort of you know, 147 00:07:05,800 --> 00:07:06,880 Speaker 2: hard work side too. 148 00:07:07,880 --> 00:07:12,880 Speaker 1: But it's interesting that he has a deeper ethic when 149 00:07:12,920 --> 00:07:15,760 Speaker 1: it was entirely unnecessary, you might say, financially. 150 00:07:15,840 --> 00:07:18,760 Speaker 2: Yeah. Sure, I think another on that, James, And maybe 151 00:07:18,760 --> 00:07:20,600 Speaker 2: there's a bit of you know, proving yourself too, Like 152 00:07:20,680 --> 00:07:22,680 Speaker 2: I mean, you'd know that, you know, the famous Richard 153 00:07:22,720 --> 00:07:25,640 Speaker 2: Pratt stories of him always walking the factory floors are busy. 154 00:07:25,920 --> 00:07:28,200 Speaker 2: What was it He'd always be in there at five o'clock. 155 00:07:28,240 --> 00:07:30,560 Speaker 2: So his son Anthony made sure that you get up 156 00:07:30,560 --> 00:07:33,240 Speaker 2: and be in there at four o'clock. Or that's probably 157 00:07:33,280 --> 00:07:35,520 Speaker 2: you know, not quite getting the timing right, But there's 158 00:07:35,520 --> 00:07:37,560 Speaker 2: always that as well, So you know, I think sort 159 00:07:37,560 --> 00:07:39,320 Speaker 2: of probably there's a lot of people in that next 160 00:07:39,400 --> 00:07:41,960 Speaker 2: generation that feel they need to prove themselves and just 161 00:07:42,000 --> 00:07:44,640 Speaker 2: be slightly better at it, if that makes sense. 162 00:07:44,760 --> 00:07:48,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, well that's another driver, because I mean, at a point, 163 00:07:48,120 --> 00:07:51,320 Speaker 1: what's fascinating I think about the rich list to us 164 00:07:52,560 --> 00:07:56,640 Speaker 1: is they go way beyond the point of fortune or 165 00:07:56,800 --> 00:07:59,600 Speaker 1: how much you need or even an impressive fortune or 166 00:08:00,280 --> 00:08:04,239 Speaker 1: fortune by us Australian standards. What's the entry dollar level 167 00:08:04,480 --> 00:08:04,920 Speaker 1: this year? 168 00:08:05,240 --> 00:08:09,200 Speaker 2: Just to me seven and fifty millionimes. 169 00:08:08,000 --> 00:08:10,640 Speaker 1: Seven hundred fifty to get on the list. Seven hundred 170 00:08:10,640 --> 00:08:13,760 Speaker 1: and fifty million, rock bottom. You scrape in at the bottom. Okay, 171 00:08:13,760 --> 00:08:15,800 Speaker 1: So let's just keep going on the straight. So we 172 00:08:15,840 --> 00:08:19,920 Speaker 1: talked about work, We talked about resilience, We talked about 173 00:08:20,000 --> 00:08:22,400 Speaker 1: support in the way of a partner, and increasing and 174 00:08:22,600 --> 00:08:26,960 Speaker 1: increasingly maybe it was always there, but an increasingly public 175 00:08:27,080 --> 00:08:32,480 Speaker 1: dimension of rich Lister's confidence. Now this is the quality 176 00:08:32,520 --> 00:08:36,800 Speaker 1: I think that sets them apart, this extraordinary confidence. I 177 00:08:36,840 --> 00:08:39,719 Speaker 1: want to zone in on two guys that I never 178 00:08:39,760 --> 00:08:43,400 Speaker 1: heard of before. The is it? Are they Roberts as well? 179 00:08:43,440 --> 00:08:44,680 Speaker 2: Then? 180 00:08:44,880 --> 00:08:47,520 Speaker 1: Yes, ir e N. Tell us about ir e N 181 00:08:47,880 --> 00:08:50,800 Speaker 1: because we all know next TC, but the next the 182 00:08:51,200 --> 00:08:55,920 Speaker 1: next d C story as a data center AI driven 183 00:08:56,600 --> 00:08:59,480 Speaker 1: next CC is just ticking along compared to these guys. 184 00:08:59,520 --> 00:09:01,480 Speaker 1: Tell us there and story. 185 00:09:01,559 --> 00:09:03,920 Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, they originally started as a pitcoin mining company 186 00:09:03,960 --> 00:09:06,559 Speaker 2: and listened on the NASDAQ only a couple of years 187 00:09:06,559 --> 00:09:08,559 Speaker 2: in new existence. This is a few years ago now. 188 00:09:09,640 --> 00:09:12,400 Speaker 2: They jumped the AX and they had that confidence to 189 00:09:12,440 --> 00:09:15,560 Speaker 2: sort of take it globally and they identified data center 190 00:09:15,800 --> 00:09:18,560 Speaker 2: sites or places they could build these data centers in 191 00:09:18,600 --> 00:09:21,079 Speaker 2: North America and they've gone to some really obscure places 192 00:09:21,120 --> 00:09:24,480 Speaker 2: in British Columbia and Canada and Texas as well. 193 00:09:24,760 --> 00:09:26,920 Speaker 1: But that was their brilliance, right, that was the brilliance. 194 00:09:27,120 --> 00:09:33,560 Speaker 1: So explain why that was the strategy that made them. 195 00:09:34,000 --> 00:09:34,840 Speaker 1: How much are they worth? 196 00:09:35,240 --> 00:09:37,520 Speaker 2: They're worth, yeah, they're worth, but nine hundred and fifty 197 00:09:37,559 --> 00:09:40,720 Speaker 2: million combined. So this is share price stuff, right, Yeah, 198 00:09:41,120 --> 00:09:42,079 Speaker 2: this is like. 199 00:09:42,040 --> 00:09:45,880 Speaker 1: A billionaire brother two brothers that no one knows, so 200 00:09:46,559 --> 00:09:49,120 Speaker 1: most people don't know. But explain how they did it, 201 00:09:49,160 --> 00:09:50,120 Speaker 1: what that strategy was. 202 00:09:50,120 --> 00:09:52,480 Speaker 2: Well, that's literally going when no one's gone before, so 203 00:09:52,559 --> 00:09:55,920 Speaker 2: to speak. So you know, they find places small towns, 204 00:09:56,000 --> 00:09:58,280 Speaker 2: for example in Canada where they might have been a 205 00:09:58,280 --> 00:10:00,720 Speaker 2: paper mill that's closed down and that we're using you know, 206 00:10:00,760 --> 00:10:03,240 Speaker 2: sort of hydro power for that. And so they go 207 00:10:03,240 --> 00:10:05,640 Speaker 2: and build a data center and tap into that renewable 208 00:10:05,679 --> 00:10:08,120 Speaker 2: power if you want to call it. Or there's excess 209 00:10:08,120 --> 00:10:11,800 Speaker 2: supply of electricity you know in particular places in Texas, 210 00:10:11,840 --> 00:10:14,480 Speaker 2: so they go and build a data center there and 211 00:10:14,520 --> 00:10:17,160 Speaker 2: sort of tap so that what they're saying is they're 212 00:10:17,200 --> 00:10:20,200 Speaker 2: not necessarily sarily taking the energy from you know, households 213 00:10:20,240 --> 00:10:22,600 Speaker 2: and so on it. So they're building it in these 214 00:10:22,640 --> 00:10:24,600 Speaker 2: places where you know they're a long way, but you 215 00:10:24,600 --> 00:10:27,400 Speaker 2: know you can transport the power, you know, back to 216 00:10:27,400 --> 00:10:28,959 Speaker 2: where it needs to go. And obviously you've got to 217 00:10:28,960 --> 00:10:31,680 Speaker 2: do the deals with the Hyperscalers and Microsoft's are the 218 00:10:31,679 --> 00:10:34,040 Speaker 2: metas of the world as well. So but they, Yeah, 219 00:10:34,080 --> 00:10:37,319 Speaker 2: a couple of Australian brothers. You know, they grew up 220 00:10:37,559 --> 00:10:40,040 Speaker 2: they've worked at Macquarie, so they've got that Mcquarie sort 221 00:10:40,040 --> 00:10:42,000 Speaker 2: of deal making ethos as well. I think that's really 222 00:10:42,000 --> 00:10:45,280 Speaker 2: stood them in good stead. And you know, they know infrastructure, 223 00:10:45,600 --> 00:10:48,320 Speaker 2: they know, you know, they know where there's excess capacity 224 00:10:48,320 --> 00:10:50,839 Speaker 2: that they can tap into, and they've had that confidence 225 00:10:50,880 --> 00:10:53,520 Speaker 2: to literally go, as I said, where no one's gone before. 226 00:10:54,320 --> 00:10:58,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, so they have this hyper confidence. These Hyperscalers, they 227 00:10:58,080 --> 00:11:01,200 Speaker 1: have the resilience. And we talk about the work ethic 228 00:11:02,200 --> 00:11:05,080 Speaker 1: on other I want to just one or two other 229 00:11:05,160 --> 00:11:07,240 Speaker 1: lines I think that may have in common which are 230 00:11:07,280 --> 00:11:09,800 Speaker 1: really worth exploring. We'll come back to it after the break. 231 00:11:09,840 --> 00:11:12,440 Speaker 1: One of them is obviously the capacity to make deals, 232 00:11:12,800 --> 00:11:15,160 Speaker 1: but others are quite practical, aren't they that anyone could 233 00:11:15,160 --> 00:11:17,280 Speaker 1: apply to anyone listening to the show, Which is like 234 00:11:17,400 --> 00:11:21,320 Speaker 1: keeping things really tight budgeting ruthlessly, which very few of 235 00:11:21,360 --> 00:11:31,600 Speaker 1: us do what I expect. We'll be back in a moment. Hello, 236 00:11:31,679 --> 00:11:35,240 Speaker 1: Welcome back to the Australians Money Puzzle podcast. I'm James Kirby. 237 00:11:35,480 --> 00:11:39,360 Speaker 1: Welcome aboard again everybody. I am talking to. John Stencil Too, 238 00:11:39,440 --> 00:11:43,600 Speaker 1: is the editor of The Australian's Richest two point fifty, 239 00:11:43,679 --> 00:11:48,439 Speaker 1: which is out on Friday, the twentieth of March. Every 240 00:11:48,520 --> 00:11:50,440 Speaker 1: year is different. We're going to talk in a minute 241 00:11:50,480 --> 00:11:52,240 Speaker 1: about the sort of big picture of the helicopter review 242 00:11:52,280 --> 00:11:54,360 Speaker 1: of the list, because it actually tells us quite a lot, 243 00:11:54,440 --> 00:11:56,520 Speaker 1: I think as investors as well. But I wanted to 244 00:11:56,640 --> 00:12:00,240 Speaker 1: just finish off on this John about particular traits, the 245 00:12:00,360 --> 00:12:04,480 Speaker 1: traits we see that are common to the people on 246 00:12:04,520 --> 00:12:07,160 Speaker 1: this list, to or two hundred and fifty of them 247 00:12:07,200 --> 00:12:11,840 Speaker 1: and their partners. I'm surprised. One of the things is 248 00:12:11,880 --> 00:12:15,839 Speaker 1: like this kind of ruthlessness in budgeting. And I'm thinking 249 00:12:15,880 --> 00:12:18,439 Speaker 1: of people like Mike canon Brooks at at Lassie and 250 00:12:18,559 --> 00:12:23,480 Speaker 1: Richard White at wise Tech and how tough they are 251 00:12:23,480 --> 00:12:26,400 Speaker 1: and making quick decisions like they have five thousands of 252 00:12:26,440 --> 00:12:28,840 Speaker 1: people this year. Haven't they explained little about what's going 253 00:12:28,840 --> 00:12:29,640 Speaker 1: on with those guys. 254 00:12:29,800 --> 00:12:32,559 Speaker 2: Yeah, so lastly in yeah, that was last week actually, 255 00:12:32,559 --> 00:12:34,320 Speaker 2: they talked about that they need to get rid of 256 00:12:34,440 --> 00:12:37,160 Speaker 2: sack sixteen hundred people. Richard White did the same thing 257 00:12:37,280 --> 00:12:40,280 Speaker 2: at wires Tech a couple of weeks earlier, two thousand people. 258 00:12:40,360 --> 00:12:42,280 Speaker 2: So yeah, what are we talking about three three, three 259 00:12:42,320 --> 00:12:44,760 Speaker 2: and a half, three thousand, six hundred people. That's yeah, 260 00:12:44,800 --> 00:12:48,680 Speaker 2: it's that's cost cutting and that's keeping it now, keeping 261 00:12:48,679 --> 00:12:51,000 Speaker 2: a tight reigin on costs. So that's I think that's 262 00:12:51,120 --> 00:12:54,160 Speaker 2: the that's that discipline to know, you know what the 263 00:12:54,200 --> 00:12:56,200 Speaker 2: bottom line is, you know what's on your balance sheet, 264 00:12:56,360 --> 00:12:58,200 Speaker 2: and to see where trends are going. Now. You could 265 00:12:58,240 --> 00:13:00,560 Speaker 2: argue with both of them, giving that they share is down, 266 00:13:00,600 --> 00:13:02,480 Speaker 2: that they have been a little bit slow to move 267 00:13:02,520 --> 00:13:05,320 Speaker 2: on that front. But they've moved now, and they've moved 268 00:13:05,400 --> 00:13:08,600 Speaker 2: very quickly. And it's probably an argument without lassing that 269 00:13:08,600 --> 00:13:11,400 Speaker 2: there may be the market hasn't rewarded them yet for 270 00:13:11,440 --> 00:13:14,240 Speaker 2: not cutting deeply enough. But yes, so there's a real 271 00:13:14,520 --> 00:13:17,240 Speaker 2: tight rain on costs, and I think there's that's a 272 00:13:17,280 --> 00:13:19,640 Speaker 2: trait that's common with a lot of these people in 273 00:13:19,720 --> 00:13:22,120 Speaker 2: business that are on the list that you have, you know, 274 00:13:22,160 --> 00:13:25,439 Speaker 2: maybe retail businesses. Thinking like a Jack Cowen, for example, 275 00:13:25,520 --> 00:13:28,760 Speaker 2: who knows exactly what's going on at Hungry Jacks when 276 00:13:28,760 --> 00:13:31,079 Speaker 2: it comes to all the input costs. He's talking out 277 00:13:31,160 --> 00:13:33,480 Speaker 2: Global Food Forum in the last couple of days with 278 00:13:33,520 --> 00:13:35,400 Speaker 2: the Australian about you know, he knows what's going on 279 00:13:35,440 --> 00:13:37,199 Speaker 2: with Fuelly, knows what's going on when all the sort 280 00:13:37,240 --> 00:13:39,280 Speaker 2: of inputs that go in there so so tight rain 281 00:13:39,360 --> 00:13:42,080 Speaker 2: on costs. And it's that ability to move quickly when 282 00:13:42,160 --> 00:13:45,360 Speaker 2: you need to cut unfortunately and cut jobs and things 283 00:13:45,400 --> 00:13:46,040 Speaker 2: like that as well. 284 00:13:46,760 --> 00:13:51,360 Speaker 1: And this sort of snapshot obviously all the time in 285 00:13:51,400 --> 00:13:54,560 Speaker 1: their heads basically of the budget that they have for 286 00:13:54,640 --> 00:13:57,839 Speaker 1: their own businesses. Regardless of the scared of those businesses. 287 00:13:57,400 --> 00:13:59,040 Speaker 2: I think a lot of them, all of them just 288 00:13:59,080 --> 00:14:01,640 Speaker 2: about would be very very comgnizant of what's on their 289 00:14:01,679 --> 00:14:03,880 Speaker 2: balance sheet at all times when it comes to either 290 00:14:03,920 --> 00:14:06,560 Speaker 2: their businesses and even their personal wealth as well. 291 00:14:07,480 --> 00:14:11,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, personal wealth, which of course would be high. I'm 292 00:14:11,080 --> 00:14:13,360 Speaker 1: sure one thing we can all do, folks well with 293 00:14:13,440 --> 00:14:16,439 Speaker 1: a bit of luck, which is common and particularly common 294 00:14:16,480 --> 00:14:18,040 Speaker 1: to people at the very top of the list. Don't 295 00:14:18,080 --> 00:14:21,480 Speaker 1: going to name them. Gina Reinert Number one, Harry Trigamov 296 00:14:21,760 --> 00:14:27,800 Speaker 1: number two. Who else is there? Carry is still longevity, 297 00:14:28,240 --> 00:14:32,280 Speaker 1: live a long time compound. It's It's really powerful, isn't it. 298 00:14:32,320 --> 00:14:36,000 Speaker 1: If you live a long time and you don't blow it, 299 00:14:36,000 --> 00:14:37,600 Speaker 1: it really builds that compound. 300 00:14:37,600 --> 00:14:40,080 Speaker 2: Interesting thing, isn't it. James and Alex Wastlets and those 301 00:14:40,080 --> 00:14:42,440 Speaker 2: people like that are in the Fundage talk about that 302 00:14:42,480 --> 00:14:44,320 Speaker 2: if you make some money, you keep it in there 303 00:14:44,320 --> 00:14:46,840 Speaker 2: and it just keeps you compounding and growing. So yeah, 304 00:14:46,840 --> 00:14:48,320 Speaker 2: I think that. I mean it goes back a little 305 00:14:48,320 --> 00:14:50,520 Speaker 2: bit to perseverance as well, and perhaps but the fear 306 00:14:50,520 --> 00:14:52,240 Speaker 2: of not knowing what they'll do if they're not in 307 00:14:52,280 --> 00:14:54,600 Speaker 2: their business. I mean, Harry Triggerabof is ninety three now 308 00:14:54,640 --> 00:14:56,560 Speaker 2: and he's still it might be a little bit harder 309 00:14:56,520 --> 00:14:57,840 Speaker 2: for him to get around, but I still see him 310 00:14:57,880 --> 00:15:00,240 Speaker 2: charging around. I know he was down in Melbourne, you know, 311 00:15:00,280 --> 00:15:02,880 Speaker 2: for the tennis in January. He still turns up to things. 312 00:15:02,880 --> 00:15:05,240 Speaker 2: He's ninety three, he still turns up to the office 313 00:15:05,280 --> 00:15:07,880 Speaker 2: every single day. He knows what's going on. He knows 314 00:15:07,960 --> 00:15:10,720 Speaker 2: all the he knows all the sheets they call him. 315 00:15:10,760 --> 00:15:13,120 Speaker 2: He knows all the financial information line by line in 316 00:15:13,160 --> 00:15:15,560 Speaker 2: his company. He has his grandson in there now like 317 00:15:15,600 --> 00:15:18,160 Speaker 2: as the sort of heir apparent, But it's no doubt 318 00:15:18,200 --> 00:15:20,960 Speaker 2: that Harry is still running that show in a mental capacity. 319 00:15:21,000 --> 00:15:23,440 Speaker 2: So yeah, I think you're making money and you're keeping 320 00:15:23,520 --> 00:15:25,960 Speaker 2: it in there and it keeps growing and growing. But 321 00:15:26,000 --> 00:15:28,200 Speaker 2: you're also still in charge for all those years too. 322 00:15:29,080 --> 00:15:31,720 Speaker 1: I suppose the lesson for investors is, no, what's in 323 00:15:31,760 --> 00:15:35,920 Speaker 1: your portfolio, don't let anything, don't turn your you know, 324 00:15:35,960 --> 00:15:38,200 Speaker 1: don't lose sight of what you've got. If you've got 325 00:15:38,720 --> 00:15:41,480 Speaker 1: fifteen shares, do you know how they are all going? 326 00:15:41,520 --> 00:15:43,640 Speaker 1: Do you know that the story has changed quite quickly 327 00:15:43,680 --> 00:15:45,920 Speaker 1: on some If you had a at Lassian do you 328 00:15:46,000 --> 00:15:48,480 Speaker 1: know that it's down sixty percent from the top in 329 00:15:48,480 --> 00:15:50,120 Speaker 1: the blink of an eye. So you've got to keep 330 00:15:50,320 --> 00:15:53,120 Speaker 1: a really close eye on that. Now, Okay, let's talk 331 00:15:53,160 --> 00:15:56,440 Speaker 1: about the broader list. One thing I think people would 332 00:15:56,440 --> 00:15:58,880 Speaker 1: find interesting as a sort of because the list is 333 00:15:58,920 --> 00:16:01,480 Speaker 1: such a sort of window into the wider world, is 334 00:16:01,520 --> 00:16:04,480 Speaker 1: that I think it's the first time in so many 335 00:16:04,560 --> 00:16:06,880 Speaker 1: years that the total value of the list is less 336 00:16:06,920 --> 00:16:10,000 Speaker 1: than it used to be. Yeah, what happened there. 337 00:16:10,400 --> 00:16:12,720 Speaker 2: That's correct, And the reason for that, I think it's 338 00:16:12,760 --> 00:16:15,720 Speaker 2: technology and it's a shift, a little shift with a 339 00:16:15,760 --> 00:16:19,240 Speaker 2: little a large shift in wealth numbers as to what's 340 00:16:19,320 --> 00:16:22,320 Speaker 2: going on inside that technology sector. So the people that 341 00:16:22,360 --> 00:16:24,160 Speaker 2: we that come on the list, like we're talking about 342 00:16:24,200 --> 00:16:27,040 Speaker 2: with the Iron Brothers. Oliver Curtis is another notable example. 343 00:16:27,120 --> 00:16:30,160 Speaker 2: You might him from his inside a trading jail term 344 00:16:30,200 --> 00:16:32,120 Speaker 2: about a decade ago, and now he's back. 345 00:16:32,120 --> 00:16:34,360 Speaker 1: Yes, and he's now on this he's now ahead of 346 00:16:34,400 --> 00:16:38,040 Speaker 1: this company called firms FI or m Us, which is 347 00:16:38,080 --> 00:16:42,479 Speaker 1: this super hot pre IPO stock. Yes, with I suppose 348 00:16:42,920 --> 00:16:46,480 Speaker 1: it has to be said, a colorful character in charge. 349 00:16:46,680 --> 00:16:48,920 Speaker 2: So it's an AI. It's an AI theme there. So 350 00:16:49,120 --> 00:16:53,120 Speaker 2: the AI companies are growing rapidly in value. So Curtis 351 00:16:53,240 --> 00:16:56,040 Speaker 2: is a billionaire one point three billion dollars on paper 352 00:16:56,040 --> 00:16:58,720 Speaker 2: that he's got invaluation in his six billion dollar company. 353 00:16:58,920 --> 00:17:00,960 Speaker 2: So you got the Iron Brothers are coming up as well. 354 00:17:01,040 --> 00:17:04,240 Speaker 2: Other and then on the other hand, the software companies 355 00:17:04,920 --> 00:17:07,320 Speaker 2: like the Atlasians and the Wires Texts, they've been marked 356 00:17:07,320 --> 00:17:09,760 Speaker 2: down there and their major falls are the major so 357 00:17:09,800 --> 00:17:12,240 Speaker 2: their falls are the major reason for the overall falls. 358 00:17:12,240 --> 00:17:15,720 Speaker 2: So you've got AI attacking the software companies. So the 359 00:17:15,760 --> 00:17:18,439 Speaker 2: AI guys are going up and the software companies are 360 00:17:18,440 --> 00:17:23,359 Speaker 2: going down. So that's what's happening inside the technology sector. Overarching, though, 361 00:17:23,480 --> 00:17:27,439 Speaker 2: there's some of those old industries that are back in fashion, 362 00:17:27,480 --> 00:17:32,560 Speaker 2: so to speak, coal mining, real estate manufacturing. They're perennials 363 00:17:32,960 --> 00:17:35,720 Speaker 2: and they're not as volatile as these other stocks or 364 00:17:35,720 --> 00:17:36,680 Speaker 2: these other companies are. 365 00:17:38,200 --> 00:17:42,000 Speaker 1: So it does actually mirror the market considerably, doesn't it, 366 00:17:42,040 --> 00:17:45,800 Speaker 1: With the AI, for instance, being perhaps overplaced and overhyped 367 00:17:46,119 --> 00:17:50,280 Speaker 1: the software the threat to software by AI being reflected 368 00:17:50,280 --> 00:17:53,400 Speaker 1: in the falling fortunes of some of the bigger players 369 00:17:53,440 --> 00:17:57,679 Speaker 1: such as Wistech, such as the Atlassian due who have 370 00:17:57,800 --> 00:17:59,840 Speaker 1: dropped down the list a little bit. I noticed that 371 00:18:00,119 --> 00:18:04,240 Speaker 1: we're talking about partnerships Melanie Perkins and Cliff Obrect there 372 00:18:04,280 --> 00:18:07,800 Speaker 1: remain there at the top five, five and six. If 373 00:18:07,840 --> 00:18:10,359 Speaker 1: they were listed John on the share market. Do you 374 00:18:10,440 --> 00:18:11,680 Speaker 1: reckon they're the slid more. 375 00:18:12,240 --> 00:18:14,280 Speaker 2: I suspect they probably will, and I think you're going 376 00:18:14,280 --> 00:18:17,359 Speaker 2: to see some cuts in valuation for that. Privately, over time, 377 00:18:17,680 --> 00:18:19,159 Speaker 2: I cut them down a little bit for what they 378 00:18:19,160 --> 00:18:21,320 Speaker 2: would have been sort of, you know, five six months ago. 379 00:18:21,480 --> 00:18:23,840 Speaker 2: But I reckon that as time goes on this year, 380 00:18:24,400 --> 00:18:27,560 Speaker 2: there probably will be evaluation cut given what what else 381 00:18:27,600 --> 00:18:30,480 Speaker 2: is happening. The one thing with Canva, though, in comparison 382 00:18:30,520 --> 00:18:33,960 Speaker 2: to Atlassian, for example, is that from all reports, Canva 383 00:18:34,040 --> 00:18:37,439 Speaker 2: has been profitable for quite a while now. So at 384 00:18:37,520 --> 00:18:39,800 Speaker 2: Lassian has not been profitable for the last ten years. 385 00:18:39,800 --> 00:18:41,840 Speaker 2: They've lost about three and a half billion dollars in 386 00:18:41,880 --> 00:18:44,320 Speaker 2: that time. The market is telling them that need to 387 00:18:44,320 --> 00:18:48,199 Speaker 2: get profitable Canva. You know when we see if we 388 00:18:48,280 --> 00:18:51,760 Speaker 2: see prepo documents come through, should sow some pretty healthy 389 00:18:51,760 --> 00:18:55,040 Speaker 2: profits modu. That's what the Atlasian documents showed ten years 390 00:18:55,080 --> 00:18:57,119 Speaker 2: ago as well. And then they ACU he did a 391 00:18:57,160 --> 00:18:59,200 Speaker 2: lot of spending and slind lost for a long time, 392 00:18:59,240 --> 00:19:02,000 Speaker 2: and they were that were being valued on a revenue 393 00:19:02,040 --> 00:19:04,199 Speaker 2: multiple rather than net profits and stuff like that. So 394 00:19:04,640 --> 00:19:06,680 Speaker 2: Canva could be a little bit different. I'll be fasciname 395 00:19:06,720 --> 00:19:07,720 Speaker 2: to say what happens there. 396 00:19:08,000 --> 00:19:10,120 Speaker 1: Okay, we'll be back in a moment, folks, I want 397 00:19:10,160 --> 00:19:11,399 Speaker 1: to take it. I want to take you to a 398 00:19:11,400 --> 00:19:14,239 Speaker 1: little sort of four wind trip across the list and 399 00:19:14,359 --> 00:19:25,200 Speaker 1: one or two questions as well. Talk to Hello, welcome 400 00:19:25,200 --> 00:19:27,920 Speaker 1: back to the Australians Money Pazza. I'm James Kirkby talking 401 00:19:27,960 --> 00:19:32,239 Speaker 1: to John Stencold, which two fifty editor a couple of 402 00:19:32,520 --> 00:19:35,960 Speaker 1: random ones for you, John question without notice? Are you ready? 403 00:19:36,080 --> 00:19:38,160 Speaker 1: This is like the buzzer question in the quiz show. 404 00:19:38,840 --> 00:19:43,120 Speaker 1: Why is Nikola Forrest valued more than Andrew Forrest? She's 405 00:19:43,160 --> 00:19:47,240 Speaker 1: at seventeen point nine billion and he's at sixteen point 406 00:19:47,280 --> 00:19:50,240 Speaker 1: seven billion. Has anyone asked you this? Including Andrew Forest. 407 00:19:50,359 --> 00:19:52,800 Speaker 2: I can't devolve what's guys on behind the scenes when 408 00:19:52,920 --> 00:19:54,879 Speaker 2: we talk to these billionaires for the list, James, but 409 00:19:55,040 --> 00:19:57,320 Speaker 2: it is a talking point. I can assow you Nikola 410 00:19:57,520 --> 00:20:01,600 Speaker 2: in her own name has fifty million more Fortescue shares 411 00:20:02,200 --> 00:20:06,080 Speaker 2: than Andrew does. The rest of their wealth is fifty 412 00:20:06,080 --> 00:20:08,800 Speaker 2: to fifty. So they own Tatterrang, which is a private 413 00:20:09,200 --> 00:20:11,560 Speaker 2: they're private sort of investment empire, which owns Ara and 414 00:20:11,560 --> 00:20:14,360 Speaker 2: Williams and a whole stack of other assets that is. 415 00:20:14,359 --> 00:20:15,160 Speaker 1: Fifty to fifty. 416 00:20:15,560 --> 00:20:19,320 Speaker 2: But she has fifty million Fortescue shares in her own 417 00:20:19,400 --> 00:20:22,320 Speaker 2: name through a thing called Coaxial, which is her own. 418 00:20:22,600 --> 00:20:25,600 Speaker 2: Now that may be some sort of assettlement thing or 419 00:20:26,119 --> 00:20:28,840 Speaker 2: a marriage sort of breakup thing. It's a clear thing 420 00:20:28,880 --> 00:20:32,920 Speaker 2: though It's definitely there on paper. So yes, now, Twiggy, 421 00:20:33,040 --> 00:20:36,160 Speaker 2: Andrew Forrest is the founder, but obviously Nichola has been 422 00:20:36,200 --> 00:20:38,640 Speaker 2: there for step of the way and she's got those 423 00:20:38,640 --> 00:20:39,640 Speaker 2: assets in her own name. 424 00:20:39,680 --> 00:20:42,840 Speaker 1: Now, well, it's a very interesting day mansion today. I 425 00:20:42,880 --> 00:20:45,479 Speaker 1: must see in the list and cut my eye and 426 00:20:45,520 --> 00:20:48,760 Speaker 1: I maybe Italy. I imagine it catches the eye of money. 427 00:20:48,880 --> 00:20:52,960 Speaker 1: All right, just tell me for you personally, what was 428 00:20:53,000 --> 00:20:54,280 Speaker 1: the story that jumped out? 429 00:20:54,840 --> 00:20:57,480 Speaker 2: I really enjoyed a story that's that Liam Mendes and 430 00:20:57,680 --> 00:21:00,640 Speaker 2: Angelica Snowden wrote about a guy called Russell Wilson who's 431 00:21:01,000 --> 00:21:05,280 Speaker 2: Coinspot founder. Now Coinspot being a really huge coin and 432 00:21:05,440 --> 00:21:07,480 Speaker 2: another cryptocurrency broker here. 433 00:21:07,320 --> 00:21:08,919 Speaker 1: In Australia, crypto empire. 434 00:21:09,000 --> 00:21:11,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's got a couple of million customers. No one 435 00:21:11,200 --> 00:21:14,040 Speaker 2: knows about this founder. He's living pretty anonymously in Berrick 436 00:21:14,119 --> 00:21:17,879 Speaker 2: in Melbourne's outskirts, and yeah he was up in space 437 00:21:17,960 --> 00:21:21,720 Speaker 2: on Jeff Bezos' spaceship last year. He almost lost his 438 00:21:21,760 --> 00:21:24,520 Speaker 2: company through big scam by a couple of very ordinary 439 00:21:24,560 --> 00:21:26,919 Speaker 2: people in the UK a few years ago. So it's 440 00:21:26,960 --> 00:21:29,879 Speaker 2: an incredible tale of like of wealth but also like you, 441 00:21:30,119 --> 00:21:33,920 Speaker 2: persistence and perseverance, secrecy and almost losing it as well. 442 00:21:35,440 --> 00:21:38,199 Speaker 2: He's very low key, very low I've called him the 443 00:21:38,320 --> 00:21:40,080 Speaker 2: most reclusive billionaire in Australia. 444 00:21:40,760 --> 00:21:43,800 Speaker 1: So how did you get at this reclusive billionaire? 445 00:21:43,920 --> 00:21:45,879 Speaker 2: Well, we found some court documents in the UK that 446 00:21:45,920 --> 00:21:48,400 Speaker 2: were a fascinating read. It's actually a very positive story. 447 00:21:48,440 --> 00:21:50,560 Speaker 2: He didn't want to be found and we tracked him 448 00:21:50,600 --> 00:21:53,280 Speaker 2: down through going to an office that doesn't really exist, 449 00:21:53,400 --> 00:21:55,600 Speaker 2: and houses and a coffee shop that he owns in 450 00:21:55,600 --> 00:21:57,240 Speaker 2: Berwick as well, So he's around. 451 00:21:58,359 --> 00:22:00,800 Speaker 1: Well I imagine if he's in Bury, which is a very 452 00:22:00,880 --> 00:22:03,600 Speaker 1: nice part of the world in outer Melbourne as you 453 00:22:03,680 --> 00:22:07,159 Speaker 1: head over towards Gippstand, but it wouldn't be full of billionaires, 454 00:22:07,600 --> 00:22:12,200 Speaker 1: not at all. No, Yeah, isn't that interesting? Okay, very good? 455 00:22:12,359 --> 00:22:14,359 Speaker 1: I want you to just if you have a moment, John, 456 00:22:14,600 --> 00:22:17,040 Speaker 1: I did want you to also help us with some 457 00:22:17,160 --> 00:22:20,359 Speaker 1: questions and I think they're appropriate for you, John. I 458 00:22:20,440 --> 00:22:23,440 Speaker 1: kept them for you, especially first ones from Anna. She says, 459 00:22:23,520 --> 00:22:26,840 Speaker 1: you've had guests covering the attractions of private credit. But 460 00:22:26,960 --> 00:22:29,320 Speaker 1: I read that many of the wealthy Stourne are getting 461 00:22:29,359 --> 00:22:31,960 Speaker 1: out of our listed assets such as private credit. Is 462 00:22:31,960 --> 00:22:34,919 Speaker 1: it too late to get in? First thing, John, in 463 00:22:34,960 --> 00:22:37,200 Speaker 1: your group, anyone in the private credit space. 464 00:22:37,080 --> 00:22:39,440 Speaker 2: There's quite a few that dabble in that private credit 465 00:22:39,520 --> 00:22:41,320 Speaker 2: or private lending. It feels like there was a bit 466 00:22:41,359 --> 00:22:43,720 Speaker 2: of a trend of family officers getting into private credit 467 00:22:43,800 --> 00:22:47,080 Speaker 2: and lending lending for proper developments. I have to say 468 00:22:47,119 --> 00:22:50,240 Speaker 2: that a few of them. I've taken some haircuts on those. 469 00:22:50,280 --> 00:22:52,760 Speaker 2: You know, they've leant to some unfortunately, like you know, 470 00:22:52,960 --> 00:22:57,040 Speaker 2: questionable or projects that haven't gone particularly well. So I 471 00:22:57,080 --> 00:22:58,960 Speaker 2: think some of it looks, you know, some of those 472 00:22:59,000 --> 00:23:02,399 Speaker 2: wealthy family offices particular, really polledy in I've had some 473 00:23:02,480 --> 00:23:05,320 Speaker 2: very good returns, but there's been a mixed bag, probably 474 00:23:05,359 --> 00:23:08,320 Speaker 2: more recently. So it's outside it's a bit of a cautionary. 475 00:23:07,960 --> 00:23:12,720 Speaker 1: Tile, okay. And then I mean, obviously, at the point 476 00:23:12,760 --> 00:23:14,320 Speaker 1: I had been making, and I think the guests we're 477 00:23:14,320 --> 00:23:16,480 Speaker 1: making on the show regularly, was that private credit was 478 00:23:16,560 --> 00:23:20,280 Speaker 1: probably splendid investment when there wasn't many people doing it. 479 00:23:20,720 --> 00:23:24,880 Speaker 1: But once you've had a rush into a sector which 480 00:23:24,920 --> 00:23:27,280 Speaker 1: is notoriously opaque and will remain so, and it will 481 00:23:27,280 --> 00:23:31,359 Speaker 1: always be so there's always risks, and those risks are 482 00:23:31,400 --> 00:23:33,800 Speaker 1: really playing out in the US at the moment, of course, 483 00:23:34,200 --> 00:23:36,879 Speaker 1: But there's been some fairly big scares in that area, 484 00:23:37,240 --> 00:23:39,840 Speaker 1: and we've had some locally as well, and I think 485 00:23:39,880 --> 00:23:42,040 Speaker 1: there's more to come. Is it too late to get in? 486 00:23:42,440 --> 00:23:45,080 Speaker 1: It's never too late to get into a terrific, excellent, 487 00:23:45,160 --> 00:23:49,119 Speaker 1: first class, high quality private credit fund. I'm afraid the 488 00:23:49,240 --> 00:23:52,119 Speaker 1: chances I think of the everyday investor getting into one 489 00:23:52,160 --> 00:23:54,720 Speaker 1: of those is slim that that will be my answer. Okay, 490 00:23:54,840 --> 00:23:57,800 Speaker 1: have a really interesting question from Carl, and I've been 491 00:23:57,800 --> 00:24:01,680 Speaker 1: waiting to do this question for some time. Here's Karl's question. 492 00:24:01,960 --> 00:24:05,320 Speaker 1: I've been looking into Guzman Egomez, which folks you would 493 00:24:05,320 --> 00:24:08,199 Speaker 1: know as the Mexican food chain that's listed on the 494 00:24:08,200 --> 00:24:11,960 Speaker 1: share market. While I was initially surprised by the explosive 495 00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:14,480 Speaker 1: share growth following its sisting, I still find it difficult 496 00:24:14,520 --> 00:24:18,440 Speaker 1: to justify their evaluation. Interestingly, the price is roughly ten 497 00:24:18,760 --> 00:24:23,399 Speaker 1: bucks below its listing price. Even investor believes they have 498 00:24:23,480 --> 00:24:26,080 Speaker 1: a valid insight that the company is overpriced, how do 499 00:24:26,160 --> 00:24:31,280 Speaker 1: they go about shorting it? Okay, thank you, Carl. Guzmany Gomez, Well, 500 00:24:31,320 --> 00:24:33,520 Speaker 1: those guys they're not on the list, are they then 501 00:24:33,800 --> 00:24:34,399 Speaker 1: behind it? No? 502 00:24:34,720 --> 00:24:36,399 Speaker 2: There, they were going quite well for a while and 503 00:24:36,400 --> 00:24:38,479 Speaker 2: probably worth a few hundred million dollars. But as your 504 00:24:38,560 --> 00:24:41,520 Speaker 2: question says that the share process gone down a lot lately. 505 00:24:41,560 --> 00:24:43,800 Speaker 1: Not only has it gone down, it's below the IPO price, 506 00:24:43,800 --> 00:24:45,960 Speaker 1: which is unforgivable I think for a growth stock, and 507 00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:48,679 Speaker 1: it was always a toll order I think for an 508 00:24:48,680 --> 00:24:51,359 Speaker 1: Australian company to bring Mexican food into the US, which 509 00:24:51,400 --> 00:24:53,320 Speaker 1: is what the big promise was at the time of 510 00:24:53,359 --> 00:24:56,960 Speaker 1: the listing, and they certainly don't seem to have managed 511 00:24:56,960 --> 00:24:59,919 Speaker 1: that in their latest numbers. But Carl, you would know 512 00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:04,240 Speaker 1: all about that. So shorting, honest and how do you short? 513 00:25:04,359 --> 00:25:06,879 Speaker 1: I think we'll come back to you on this. I mean, 514 00:25:06,920 --> 00:25:09,800 Speaker 1: the most obvious way I think for the everyday investor 515 00:25:09,840 --> 00:25:11,760 Speaker 1: to get into shortening is to buy a long short 516 00:25:11,840 --> 00:25:14,680 Speaker 1: fund and then get someone else to do the shorting 517 00:25:14,720 --> 00:25:21,080 Speaker 1: for you, because shorting is an extremely extremely specialist, high 518 00:25:21,080 --> 00:25:24,040 Speaker 1: skill area and very few people, and very few people 519 00:25:24,040 --> 00:25:26,359 Speaker 1: in Australia can do it because if you win, you 520 00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:31,000 Speaker 1: win big, but if you lose, you lose everything. So 521 00:25:31,480 --> 00:25:33,959 Speaker 1: we'll be all cautious about suggesting you try it yourself. 522 00:25:34,040 --> 00:25:36,199 Speaker 1: Cart maybe we'll come back and have a mention of 523 00:25:36,240 --> 00:25:38,560 Speaker 1: some of the long short funds that are out there. 524 00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:41,560 Speaker 1: There's a couple of big ones that are very well known. 525 00:25:41,600 --> 00:25:44,199 Speaker 1: But I won't mention one because I can only think 526 00:25:44,240 --> 00:25:46,080 Speaker 1: of one, and I always like to mention several if 527 00:25:46,119 --> 00:25:48,600 Speaker 1: I do at the one time. Okay, terrific. Kay, thank 528 00:25:48,640 --> 00:25:50,360 Speaker 1: you very much, John Stenzhold. 529 00:25:50,080 --> 00:25:51,639 Speaker 2: Thanks James, it's always a pleasure. 530 00:25:51,960 --> 00:25:54,399 Speaker 1: Great to have you on the show today. Of course, 531 00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:58,040 Speaker 1: the list comes out on Friday, that is today, Friday, 532 00:25:58,359 --> 00:26:01,440 Speaker 1: the twentieth of March. I mentioned this because it only 533 00:26:01,480 --> 00:26:04,399 Speaker 1: comes out once, rather like the Titanic. Okay, you can 534 00:26:04,440 --> 00:26:06,879 Speaker 1: only get it once. It comes out in the paper March, 535 00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:10,159 Speaker 1: so get it while you can. Today's show was produced 536 00:26:10,160 --> 00:26:12,520 Speaker 1: by Leah Sammon Glue and I'd love to have some 537 00:26:12,600 --> 00:26:16,920 Speaker 1: more questions of all types. Observations, comments and criticisms are 538 00:26:17,040 --> 00:26:20,159 Speaker 1: all welcome. The email is the Money Puzzle at the 539 00:26:20,200 --> 00:26:23,120 Speaker 1: Australian dot com dot au. Talk to you soon.