1 00:00:01,200 --> 00:00:04,240 Speaker 1: The Buckingham case was one of a string of other 2 00:00:04,320 --> 00:00:08,680 Speaker 1: cold cases that have baffled investigators, sometimes for years. Her 3 00:00:08,760 --> 00:00:11,959 Speaker 1: violent and senseless death was a macab mystery and a 4 00:00:12,039 --> 00:00:15,560 Speaker 1: stain on the Shepherdon area for more than thirty years. 5 00:00:15,920 --> 00:00:19,599 Speaker 1: But there's always a but four men always knew the truth. 6 00:00:19,920 --> 00:00:22,760 Speaker 1: It would take another generation of detectives thirty years to 7 00:00:22,760 --> 00:00:27,280 Speaker 1: catch another unknown killer whose crime haunted the district where 8 00:00:27,320 --> 00:00:31,160 Speaker 1: poor Michelle Buckingham lived and died. I'm Andrew Rule his 9 00:00:31,240 --> 00:00:34,440 Speaker 1: life and crimes. We're going to look at an old 10 00:00:34,479 --> 00:00:38,520 Speaker 1: case that was committed Waiverack in the eighties and sat 11 00:00:38,560 --> 00:00:42,400 Speaker 1: around for close to thirty years before it was solved. 12 00:00:43,240 --> 00:00:46,519 Speaker 1: And it's a remarkable case because the betting was it 13 00:00:46,560 --> 00:00:48,760 Speaker 1: would never be solved. And that is the case of 14 00:00:48,880 --> 00:00:53,360 Speaker 1: Michelle Buckingham Shepherdon. But that reminds us of some other cases, 15 00:00:53,440 --> 00:00:58,840 Speaker 1: cold cases where no one has actually been brought to 16 00:00:59,040 --> 00:01:03,360 Speaker 1: justice and certainly no one has been convicted, and we 17 00:01:03,480 --> 00:01:07,760 Speaker 1: run through a few of those as well. That's nine 18 00:01:07,840 --> 00:01:11,960 Speaker 1: years ago last month since a man was sentenced to 19 00:01:12,000 --> 00:01:14,560 Speaker 1: twenty seven years prison for the murder of a teenage 20 00:01:14,600 --> 00:01:19,360 Speaker 1: girl near Sheperton back in late nineteen eighty three. In court, 21 00:01:19,440 --> 00:01:24,160 Speaker 1: this fellow, Stephen Bradley, was described as a dog groomer, 22 00:01:24,680 --> 00:01:27,800 Speaker 1: but I'm tipping that in jail that will have been 23 00:01:27,840 --> 00:01:31,639 Speaker 1: shortened to dog, and he is white. Even in jail 24 00:01:32,319 --> 00:01:35,240 Speaker 1: what he did in company with two other people is 25 00:01:35,280 --> 00:01:40,520 Speaker 1: regarded as a dog act. This was Stephen Bradley's tenth 26 00:01:40,640 --> 00:01:45,080 Speaker 1: Christmas inside and he faces another ten before having any 27 00:01:45,160 --> 00:01:48,160 Speaker 1: chance of parole. That is, if there is a god. 28 00:01:48,760 --> 00:01:52,160 Speaker 1: The girl he murdered was named Michelle Buckingham, and she 29 00:01:52,280 --> 00:01:56,960 Speaker 1: was only sixteen. She was only just out of year ten. 30 00:01:57,560 --> 00:02:00,680 Speaker 1: She wasn't really old enough to leave school the standards 31 00:02:00,680 --> 00:02:04,280 Speaker 1: of most parents, they would want their child to stay 32 00:02:04,280 --> 00:02:06,880 Speaker 1: at school longer than year ten, and she did not. 33 00:02:08,400 --> 00:02:12,320 Speaker 1: Her violent and senseless death was a macab mystery and 34 00:02:12,360 --> 00:02:16,600 Speaker 1: a stain on the Shepherdon area for more than thirty years. 35 00:02:18,200 --> 00:02:22,960 Speaker 1: But there's always a butt. Four men always knew the 36 00:02:23,040 --> 00:02:28,440 Speaker 1: truth about Michelle and who'd killed her. Not just Bradley 37 00:02:28,480 --> 00:02:31,320 Speaker 1: and his two co offenders, who were both eventually named 38 00:02:31,360 --> 00:02:35,040 Speaker 1: in court alongside him, but the man that Bradley once 39 00:02:35,160 --> 00:02:39,560 Speaker 1: told a dreadful secret. That man was his brother in law, 40 00:02:39,880 --> 00:02:43,960 Speaker 1: whose conscience finally outweighed his fear when he was moved 41 00:02:44,000 --> 00:02:47,200 Speaker 1: by a photograph of the murdered girl's still grieving mother 42 00:02:47,919 --> 00:02:52,800 Speaker 1: in a local newspaper, the Sheperdon News, three decades after 43 00:02:52,840 --> 00:02:57,880 Speaker 1: her body was found. Long story short. Michelle Buckingham sixteen 44 00:02:58,639 --> 00:03:00,760 Speaker 1: was a sheep girl. She went to sheper and High, 45 00:03:01,000 --> 00:03:03,360 Speaker 1: but she left as soon as she could at fifteen 46 00:03:03,440 --> 00:03:06,320 Speaker 1: years old, to work in a milk bar, then a 47 00:03:06,320 --> 00:03:11,760 Speaker 1: department store, and finally a supermarket. She was tall, looked 48 00:03:11,760 --> 00:03:13,680 Speaker 1: a bit older than the year eleven school girl that 49 00:03:13,760 --> 00:03:17,200 Speaker 1: she should have been. She lived with her mother, sister, 50 00:03:17,240 --> 00:03:20,960 Speaker 1: and brother, but she'd moved out of home on Wednesday, 51 00:03:21,600 --> 00:03:27,320 Speaker 1: October the nineteenth to stay temporarily with a friend at 52 00:03:27,320 --> 00:03:32,160 Speaker 1: a local caravan park, the Stray Leaves Caravan Park, where 53 00:03:32,160 --> 00:03:36,880 Speaker 1: her father was estrange from her mother also lived. That 54 00:03:37,040 --> 00:03:42,040 Speaker 1: was a Wednesday. She was dead by Friday night. Her 55 00:03:42,080 --> 00:03:44,120 Speaker 1: mother had begged her not to leave home until she 56 00:03:44,200 --> 00:03:46,960 Speaker 1: was more mature, but Michelee knew better. She wanted to 57 00:03:47,000 --> 00:03:50,600 Speaker 1: move into a sharehouse and live her own life. Bunking 58 00:03:50,640 --> 00:03:53,720 Speaker 1: in at the caravan park was strictly temporary, but it 59 00:03:53,760 --> 00:03:58,800 Speaker 1: turned out to be fatal Because obviously, some bad people 60 00:03:58,880 --> 00:04:03,560 Speaker 1: knew she was there. The night after she left home missus. 61 00:04:03,880 --> 00:04:08,040 Speaker 1: Thursday October the twentieth, she danced with friends at a 62 00:04:08,120 --> 00:04:11,800 Speaker 1: rose tattoo gig at a big pub called the Golden 63 00:04:11,920 --> 00:04:16,880 Speaker 1: Valley Hotel, very big, famous hotel in shep particularly in 64 00:04:16,920 --> 00:04:21,279 Speaker 1: the past. The next day, a Friday, she was booked 65 00:04:21,279 --> 00:04:24,039 Speaker 1: to work from ten am to nine pm at the 66 00:04:24,080 --> 00:04:27,960 Speaker 1: local Coals, but she left work around six thirty pm, 67 00:04:28,360 --> 00:04:32,080 Speaker 1: saying she felt unwell. Now we don't really know what 68 00:04:32,120 --> 00:04:37,239 Speaker 1: that was, but anyway, she apparently dropped into the Victoria Hotel, 69 00:04:37,400 --> 00:04:40,800 Speaker 1: another pub, and spoke to a friend before heading off 70 00:04:40,839 --> 00:04:44,160 Speaker 1: to walk the three kilometers to the caravan park. She's 71 00:04:44,279 --> 00:04:48,440 Speaker 1: two years too young to drive, no carp she's left home, 72 00:04:48,720 --> 00:04:53,400 Speaker 1: she's walking, She's vulnerable, the friend would recall. She seemed unhappy, 73 00:04:53,800 --> 00:04:57,720 Speaker 1: not her usual bubbly self. Whether that had any bearing 74 00:04:57,839 --> 00:05:01,880 Speaker 1: on what happened next is hard to say. Witnesses would 75 00:05:01,920 --> 00:05:04,520 Speaker 1: later tell police they saw her near the caravan park. 76 00:05:05,440 --> 00:05:09,279 Speaker 1: They were probably the last to see her alive apart 77 00:05:10,000 --> 00:05:14,400 Speaker 1: from the men who killed her. Michelle vanished that night, 78 00:05:14,480 --> 00:05:18,200 Speaker 1: but no one knew she wasn't living with either parents, 79 00:05:18,240 --> 00:05:20,960 Speaker 1: so each assumed she was with the other or with 80 00:05:21,040 --> 00:05:24,800 Speaker 1: a friend. Her boss tried calling on Saturday morning from 81 00:05:24,800 --> 00:05:28,400 Speaker 1: the supermarket when she didn't arrive at work, but her 82 00:05:28,480 --> 00:05:34,960 Speaker 1: disappearance fell between the cracks. A week later, October twenty eighth, 83 00:05:35,680 --> 00:05:39,920 Speaker 1: she was formally reported missing. Her body was not found 84 00:05:40,000 --> 00:05:43,720 Speaker 1: until ten days after that, on November seventh, So you 85 00:05:43,760 --> 00:05:47,320 Speaker 1: can imagine at that time of year in central Victoria 86 00:05:47,600 --> 00:05:50,640 Speaker 1: what that meant. Her body was half hidden in long 87 00:05:50,680 --> 00:05:55,080 Speaker 1: grass on a gravel road at Kayala East, on the 88 00:05:55,240 --> 00:06:00,320 Speaker 1: far out edge of Shepperdon's rural outskirts. She'd been stabbed 89 00:06:00,400 --> 00:06:04,520 Speaker 1: nineteen times after seventeen days of exposure to warm weather, 90 00:06:04,560 --> 00:06:09,320 Speaker 1: animals and insects. The body held no clue for police. 91 00:06:09,480 --> 00:06:15,200 Speaker 1: They stayed clueless for another twenty nine years. The homicide 92 00:06:15,200 --> 00:06:17,880 Speaker 1: squad of that era had apatchy record with killings that 93 00:06:17,960 --> 00:06:22,240 Speaker 1: were not simple domestics. The Buckingham case was one of 94 00:06:22,279 --> 00:06:26,120 Speaker 1: a string of other cold cases that had baffled investigators, 95 00:06:26,279 --> 00:06:31,000 Speaker 1: sometimes for years. In nineteen eighty three, Sheperdon still buzzed 96 00:06:31,040 --> 00:06:34,279 Speaker 1: with fears and rumors about the double murder of local 97 00:06:34,279 --> 00:06:37,960 Speaker 1: teenagers Gary Haywood and had been a medil back in 98 00:06:38,040 --> 00:06:42,960 Speaker 1: sixty six. Their bodies too, had been found after sixteen 99 00:06:43,040 --> 00:06:45,800 Speaker 1: days abandoned in a bush paddock on the Golden River 100 00:06:45,880 --> 00:06:49,480 Speaker 1: Flats near Murchison, which has past Kayla a lot of 101 00:06:49,640 --> 00:06:54,159 Speaker 1: parallels quite similar. In October nineteen seventy three, a decade 102 00:06:54,200 --> 00:06:58,720 Speaker 1: before Michelle Buckingham's death, a teenager called Bromwin Richardson had 103 00:06:58,720 --> 00:07:02,960 Speaker 1: been abducted and murdered near Aubrey. Her body was found 104 00:07:03,000 --> 00:07:07,680 Speaker 1: floating in the murray fairly quickly, and in January nineteen 105 00:07:07,720 --> 00:07:11,080 Speaker 1: eighty forty year old Eline Jones was killed and thrown 106 00:07:11,120 --> 00:07:15,240 Speaker 1: in the murray near a camping spot at Tokemall. Her 107 00:07:15,360 --> 00:07:18,960 Speaker 1: husband died of a heart attack when he found her 108 00:07:19,960 --> 00:07:24,040 Speaker 1: bleeding body snagged in the river the next morning. It 109 00:07:24,080 --> 00:07:27,080 Speaker 1: would take police nearly twenty years to arrest the killer 110 00:07:27,640 --> 00:07:31,160 Speaker 1: of Gary Haywood, and had been a medill, that being 111 00:07:31,240 --> 00:07:37,680 Speaker 1: Raymond Edmonds, the deviate the media dubbed mister Stinkey, But 112 00:07:37,760 --> 00:07:40,520 Speaker 1: it would take another generation of detected thirty years to 113 00:07:40,600 --> 00:07:45,840 Speaker 1: catch another unknown killer whose crime haunted the district where 114 00:07:45,880 --> 00:07:51,679 Speaker 1: poor Michelle Buckingham lived and died. At least the police 115 00:07:51,720 --> 00:07:54,400 Speaker 1: had one fingerprint to work with in the Medil Haywood puzzle. 116 00:07:54,920 --> 00:07:59,640 Speaker 1: They had absolutely nothing in the Buckingham case. The truth 117 00:07:59,760 --> 00:08:03,320 Speaker 1: is it might never have been solved if not for 118 00:08:03,400 --> 00:08:07,920 Speaker 1: the diligent work of a Shepherdon News reporter in two 119 00:08:07,960 --> 00:08:12,920 Speaker 1: thousand twelve. This is twenty nine years after Michele's death. 120 00:08:13,240 --> 00:08:16,520 Speaker 1: She's been written about by a young reporter who was 121 00:08:16,560 --> 00:08:19,240 Speaker 1: at that stage under the age of twenty nine. She 122 00:08:19,280 --> 00:08:23,800 Speaker 1: had not even been born when Michele Buckingham was murdered. 123 00:08:24,720 --> 00:08:28,000 Speaker 1: A five day blitz of stories and photographs, re examining 124 00:08:28,080 --> 00:08:31,760 Speaker 1: every aspect of the case, was designed to arouse memories 125 00:08:32,200 --> 00:08:38,200 Speaker 1: and maybe consciences, time changes, thinks, sometimes breaking down once 126 00:08:38,240 --> 00:08:44,439 Speaker 1: impenetrable relationships, and fears. Dozens of tips flowed in. One 127 00:08:44,480 --> 00:08:48,319 Speaker 1: of them intrigued the seasoned homicide detective Ron Iddles, a 128 00:08:48,440 --> 00:08:51,880 Speaker 1: name we hear quite a lot in our podcasts Iddles 129 00:08:51,880 --> 00:08:55,240 Speaker 1: agreed to meet a local man discreetly at the Shepherdon 130 00:08:55,440 --> 00:09:01,720 Speaker 1: East football ground. The mystery man was Norman Gribble. He 131 00:09:01,800 --> 00:09:05,439 Speaker 1: had a story he had hidden for almost thirty years. 132 00:09:06,040 --> 00:09:09,680 Speaker 1: He told the detective that the day after Michelle was murdered, 133 00:09:10,240 --> 00:09:12,680 Speaker 1: his brother in law had told him that he and 134 00:09:12,720 --> 00:09:14,720 Speaker 1: two others had picked her up at the caravan park 135 00:09:15,080 --> 00:09:20,160 Speaker 1: in his car. That's in Gribble's car. When she later 136 00:09:20,200 --> 00:09:23,080 Speaker 1: refused to have sex with the men, they stabbed her 137 00:09:23,120 --> 00:09:26,320 Speaker 1: to death in the car at the Pine Lodge Hotel 138 00:09:26,360 --> 00:09:30,520 Speaker 1: car park, about nine kilometers east of the caravan park 139 00:09:30,800 --> 00:09:35,400 Speaker 1: where she was picked up Gribble. This is Gribble being 140 00:09:35,440 --> 00:09:39,360 Speaker 1: the man who's telling on Idol's this terrible story. Gribble 141 00:09:39,400 --> 00:09:44,960 Speaker 1: said he'd even bandaged the killer's cut hand injured committing 142 00:09:44,960 --> 00:09:48,520 Speaker 1: the crime. When I say killer, one of three killers, 143 00:09:49,240 --> 00:09:52,720 Speaker 1: only one conviction. Note the man who confessed the murder, 144 00:09:52,760 --> 00:09:57,120 Speaker 1: of course, was Stephen Bradley, brother of Gribble's wife. He 145 00:09:57,200 --> 00:10:00,560 Speaker 1: had subsequently sold his car back in eighty three and 146 00:10:00,679 --> 00:10:04,719 Speaker 1: left Sheperdon for interstate, and he very rarely came back 147 00:10:04,760 --> 00:10:08,360 Speaker 1: to shep Gribble at first didn't want to go on 148 00:10:08,440 --> 00:10:12,120 Speaker 1: the record, but Idyle's persuaded him to make a statement. 149 00:10:13,160 --> 00:10:16,080 Speaker 1: When Eddles traced Bradley in Queensland, he was working as 150 00:10:16,120 --> 00:10:19,560 Speaker 1: a dog groomer. He changed his story several times in 151 00:10:19,640 --> 00:10:24,360 Speaker 1: many months, and he was not charged until May twenty fourteen. 152 00:10:25,559 --> 00:10:29,400 Speaker 1: This is relatively recently in terms of a very old 153 00:10:29,440 --> 00:10:33,120 Speaker 1: cold case. The two men named in court as co 154 00:10:33,320 --> 00:10:39,760 Speaker 1: offenders Bradley's associates, Rodney Butler and Trevor Corrigan, swore they 155 00:10:39,800 --> 00:10:44,960 Speaker 1: weren't involved, but Supreme Court Judge Robert Osborn rejected their 156 00:10:45,000 --> 00:10:49,720 Speaker 1: evidence outright, stating he was satisfied it was a quote 157 00:10:49,960 --> 00:10:55,480 Speaker 1: killing carried out jointly unquote by them with Bradley. There 158 00:10:55,559 --> 00:10:58,720 Speaker 1: was not enough formal evidence to assure convictions against Butler 159 00:10:58,760 --> 00:11:02,840 Speaker 1: and Corrigan, so they walked while their so called mate 160 00:11:03,320 --> 00:11:08,920 Speaker 1: started a life of fear and loathing in prison. The 161 00:11:08,920 --> 00:11:11,000 Speaker 1: court heard that most of the evidence was lost in 162 00:11:11,040 --> 00:11:13,800 Speaker 1: the early nineteen nineties when a police inspector ordered it 163 00:11:13,840 --> 00:11:18,760 Speaker 1: destroyed on grounds it was a quote biological hazard go figure. 164 00:11:19,440 --> 00:11:23,760 Speaker 1: Only a handful of crime scene photographs were kept. That's andy. 165 00:11:23,880 --> 00:11:27,640 Speaker 1: It wasn't the only time that murder investigations were bungled 166 00:11:28,080 --> 00:11:30,640 Speaker 1: in Sheperdon. It was a bit of a black hole 167 00:11:30,679 --> 00:11:34,880 Speaker 1: for some motives. There was the brazen killing of Rocky Arrear, 168 00:11:35,160 --> 00:11:38,520 Speaker 1: whose body was discovered hidden in someone else's grave at 169 00:11:38,559 --> 00:11:43,240 Speaker 1: Pine Lodge Cemetery in early nineteen ninety eight, more than 170 00:11:43,320 --> 00:11:48,800 Speaker 1: six years after Rocky supposedly ran away to avoid a 171 00:11:48,840 --> 00:11:52,520 Speaker 1: second trial over a massive burglary of Bendigo with two 172 00:11:52,920 --> 00:12:00,400 Speaker 1: hardened local identities from Shep. The other scandal in shepherd 173 00:12:00,440 --> 00:12:04,920 Speaker 1: An Area that was never really resolved was the death 174 00:12:04,920 --> 00:12:09,040 Speaker 1: of a farmer's wife called Kay King on the family 175 00:12:09,120 --> 00:12:13,199 Speaker 1: dairy property near Catandra, which is northeast of Shep. The 176 00:12:13,240 --> 00:12:17,040 Speaker 1: mother of four was found battered and bruised and drowned 177 00:12:17,040 --> 00:12:20,520 Speaker 1: in a shallow sump in an old pigpen. People often 178 00:12:20,559 --> 00:12:23,160 Speaker 1: say she went into a well, but this sump was 179 00:12:23,200 --> 00:12:25,840 Speaker 1: a It looked like a well on top. It was 180 00:12:25,880 --> 00:12:28,360 Speaker 1: a hole maybe a meter by a meter, but it 181 00:12:28,480 --> 00:12:30,920 Speaker 1: just went down a few feet or say a met 182 00:12:31,040 --> 00:12:34,960 Speaker 1: or too deep, and it collected the water from an 183 00:12:35,000 --> 00:12:38,800 Speaker 1: old pigpen when it rained. Three of her now adult 184 00:12:38,880 --> 00:12:44,040 Speaker 1: children believe she was murdered, but enough police back then 185 00:12:44,440 --> 00:12:47,880 Speaker 1: in ninety eight bought the story that she'd fallen headfirst 186 00:12:47,920 --> 00:12:52,240 Speaker 1: into the water. In truth, that crime scene had been 187 00:12:52,280 --> 00:12:57,800 Speaker 1: innocently destroyed by neighbors who rushed to help. They didn't 188 00:12:57,840 --> 00:12:59,800 Speaker 1: know what they were doing, they thought they were helping. 189 00:13:00,280 --> 00:13:03,880 Speaker 1: There is still a chance that someone somewhere knows more 190 00:13:03,920 --> 00:13:07,440 Speaker 1: than they admit about the deaths of Rocky Area and 191 00:13:07,559 --> 00:13:11,480 Speaker 1: Kay King. The past could still catch up with their 192 00:13:11,559 --> 00:13:17,240 Speaker 1: killers the way it did with Stephen Bradley nine years 193 00:13:17,280 --> 00:13:22,839 Speaker 1: ago this summer. This case, of course, will for many 194 00:13:22,880 --> 00:13:27,120 Speaker 1: listeners bring up one of the most notorious cases in 195 00:13:27,160 --> 00:13:30,960 Speaker 1: Australian history, and that is the Easy Street murders of 196 00:13:31,040 --> 00:13:34,400 Speaker 1: nineteen seventy seven, and that happened six years before. It 197 00:13:34,559 --> 00:13:38,720 Speaker 1: also involved two young women from the country, but they 198 00:13:38,720 --> 00:13:42,840 Speaker 1: were living at this stage in Melbourne and Collingwood. They 199 00:13:42,880 --> 00:13:46,400 Speaker 1: were renting a house together in Easy Street, Collingwood. As 200 00:13:46,480 --> 00:13:49,280 Speaker 1: listeners will know, they were called the Two sus They 201 00:13:49,320 --> 00:13:53,880 Speaker 1: were Susan Bartlett and Susanne Armstrong. And Susan Bartlett was 202 00:13:53,920 --> 00:13:58,640 Speaker 1: a teacher, had been teaching up at Broadford. Armstrong had 203 00:13:58,760 --> 00:14:01,480 Speaker 1: traveled the world and come home with a little boy 204 00:14:01,480 --> 00:14:04,240 Speaker 1: called Gregory. They were old friends from when they went 205 00:14:04,280 --> 00:14:08,280 Speaker 1: to school together at Euroa High School, which is just 206 00:14:08,360 --> 00:14:12,600 Speaker 1: across the country a short drive, would you believe, from 207 00:14:12,679 --> 00:14:15,880 Speaker 1: where Michelle Buckingham was found at Kayla, not that far across. 208 00:14:16,520 --> 00:14:21,040 Speaker 1: The Easy Street case has always been notorious, but it 209 00:14:21,080 --> 00:14:28,920 Speaker 1: has become extremely topical since last September when Victoria Police 210 00:14:29,640 --> 00:14:33,960 Speaker 1: announced something that had been a very tightly held secret, 211 00:14:34,200 --> 00:14:39,400 Speaker 1: and that was they had been observing a particular man 212 00:14:40,120 --> 00:14:42,880 Speaker 1: in Greece. Now, this man is a man with a 213 00:14:43,160 --> 00:14:47,440 Speaker 1: dual citizenship because his parents were Greek migrants back in 214 00:14:47,520 --> 00:14:53,600 Speaker 1: the fifties. He had dual citizenship and probably two passports. Whatever. 215 00:14:54,360 --> 00:14:58,359 Speaker 1: And the story of this man, whose name is Perry Korumblas. 216 00:14:58,720 --> 00:15:01,960 Speaker 1: He's real Greek name is slightly longer, but we'll call 217 00:15:02,000 --> 00:15:06,240 Speaker 1: him Perry. Perry Krumbliss was a young man who lived 218 00:15:06,280 --> 00:15:10,760 Speaker 1: in Collingwood with his parents, a few blocks away from 219 00:15:10,880 --> 00:15:13,720 Speaker 1: Easy Straight, as did many other people. The fact he 220 00:15:13,760 --> 00:15:17,200 Speaker 1: lived nearby does not make him a natural suspect or 221 00:15:17,240 --> 00:15:19,960 Speaker 1: anything of the kind, but that's where he lived. We 222 00:15:19,960 --> 00:15:24,360 Speaker 1: don't want to bag. Perry was a relatively harmless young fellow, 223 00:15:24,480 --> 00:15:28,520 Speaker 1: it would appear. And it turns out that a few 224 00:15:28,600 --> 00:15:32,480 Speaker 1: days after the murders, after the bodies were found in 225 00:15:32,520 --> 00:15:37,240 Speaker 1: the hot summer of nineteen seventy seven, a young Collingwood 226 00:15:37,280 --> 00:15:42,200 Speaker 1: policeman pulled him up driving around. Now there'll be arjibaji 227 00:15:42,200 --> 00:15:44,600 Speaker 1: about why a seventeen year old was driving a car, 228 00:15:44,720 --> 00:15:48,280 Speaker 1: but anyway he was, and he was pulled over, possibly 229 00:15:48,400 --> 00:15:51,960 Speaker 1: like a lot of Mediterranean young many had a heavy 230 00:15:52,160 --> 00:15:54,720 Speaker 1: growth of whiskers and probably looked older than he was. 231 00:15:55,520 --> 00:15:58,000 Speaker 1: And the young policeman said, we'll step out of the 232 00:15:58,080 --> 00:16:00,880 Speaker 1: car sun and let's look in the boot. And the 233 00:16:00,920 --> 00:16:05,320 Speaker 1: policeman was Itel So later became a very famous homicide detective. 234 00:16:05,760 --> 00:16:09,520 Speaker 1: At that stage was just a big, flat foot uniform 235 00:16:09,560 --> 00:16:11,280 Speaker 1: copper who had come down from the bush and joined 236 00:16:11,320 --> 00:16:14,360 Speaker 1: the police force. And he did the right thing. They 237 00:16:14,560 --> 00:16:16,720 Speaker 1: opened the boot and he looked in there looking for 238 00:16:16,800 --> 00:16:19,520 Speaker 1: stolen goods or a weapon or whatever. And guess what 239 00:16:19,600 --> 00:16:23,880 Speaker 1: he finds. He finds a knife in a leather sheath. 240 00:16:23,880 --> 00:16:25,880 Speaker 1: That's a sheath knife as we used to call them, 241 00:16:26,400 --> 00:16:30,200 Speaker 1: or a hunting knife as often called a sharp knife. 242 00:16:30,200 --> 00:16:33,800 Speaker 1: Fairly knew no signs really have been sharpened or not 243 00:16:33,920 --> 00:16:37,560 Speaker 1: worn at all. And Itoles removed the knife and he 244 00:16:37,680 --> 00:16:40,480 Speaker 1: handed it into his superiors, and so it ended up 245 00:16:41,080 --> 00:16:45,359 Speaker 1: at the crime department, you would think, and with the 246 00:16:45,440 --> 00:16:48,120 Speaker 1: what was then known as the homicide squad, which was 247 00:16:48,120 --> 00:16:53,720 Speaker 1: a fairly understaffed squad, and they examined it and they 248 00:16:53,800 --> 00:16:56,400 Speaker 1: found that there was a little bit of blood inside 249 00:16:56,400 --> 00:16:58,280 Speaker 1: the sheath. It wasn't covert in blood. There was a 250 00:16:58,320 --> 00:17:01,360 Speaker 1: little bit of blood. Now we must be fair here 251 00:17:01,480 --> 00:17:04,760 Speaker 1: and say it's not that unusual for a sheath knife 252 00:17:04,800 --> 00:17:07,879 Speaker 1: to have some signs of blood, especially back in that 253 00:17:08,000 --> 00:17:11,920 Speaker 1: era in the seventies, we had in Melbourne a lot 254 00:17:11,960 --> 00:17:15,200 Speaker 1: of people who'd come from rural Greece and rural Italy 255 00:17:15,240 --> 00:17:18,600 Speaker 1: and rural Middle East, all sorts of places, and they 256 00:17:18,680 --> 00:17:22,600 Speaker 1: were keen on slaughtering their own lamb and their own goats. 257 00:17:22,720 --> 00:17:25,080 Speaker 1: It was a real thing back in the day. They 258 00:17:25,119 --> 00:17:28,760 Speaker 1: would have little paddocks around Thomastown and out the other 259 00:17:28,880 --> 00:17:31,240 Speaker 1: end of Coburg and Preston and you'd see half a 260 00:17:31,240 --> 00:17:34,560 Speaker 1: dozen lambs there or three goats or something, and a 261 00:17:34,600 --> 00:17:37,480 Speaker 1: lot of people would slaughter their own meat. In fact, 262 00:17:37,520 --> 00:17:40,359 Speaker 1: a lot of those people started their working life in 263 00:17:40,359 --> 00:17:42,800 Speaker 1: Australia at abbatars because you could get the work. It 264 00:17:42,840 --> 00:17:44,760 Speaker 1: was dirty, it was a little bit dangerous, and it 265 00:17:44,800 --> 00:17:47,639 Speaker 1: was unpleasant, but you could get the jobs and you 266 00:17:47,640 --> 00:17:50,639 Speaker 1: could often get some cheap meat. So the fact that 267 00:17:50,680 --> 00:17:53,080 Speaker 1: this young fellow had a knife with some blood on 268 00:17:53,119 --> 00:17:56,919 Speaker 1: it in itself doesn't indicate any sort of guilt necessarily. 269 00:17:57,480 --> 00:17:59,720 Speaker 1: But the police were interested in this fellow and they 270 00:17:59,800 --> 00:18:02,800 Speaker 1: took him into to be questioned, and I'm told he 271 00:18:02,840 --> 00:18:07,040 Speaker 1: was questioned robustly, as people were in those days, and 272 00:18:07,200 --> 00:18:09,960 Speaker 1: Apparently he stuck to his answer, and his answer may 273 00:18:10,040 --> 00:18:14,359 Speaker 1: well be the truth. Let's assume for the moment that 274 00:18:14,440 --> 00:18:16,680 Speaker 1: it was the truth, because we don't know any better. 275 00:18:18,280 --> 00:18:21,400 Speaker 1: He said to them something that actually has a sort 276 00:18:21,400 --> 00:18:24,040 Speaker 1: of an internal logic. He said, no, no, I'd pick 277 00:18:24,080 --> 00:18:26,440 Speaker 1: this knife up. I found it on the railway line 278 00:18:26,600 --> 00:18:31,119 Speaker 1: underneath the footbridge that goes from the west side of 279 00:18:31,240 --> 00:18:34,159 Speaker 1: Punt Road over the railway line towards Victoria Park, the 280 00:18:34,200 --> 00:18:37,560 Speaker 1: football ground, and it looks to me, he must have 281 00:18:37,640 --> 00:18:39,960 Speaker 1: told them as if it had been dropped from the 282 00:18:40,040 --> 00:18:45,159 Speaker 1: railway bridge by someone perhaps fleeing the murdency, and that 283 00:18:45,240 --> 00:18:48,359 Speaker 1: he'd spied it sitting there, this nice new knife, and 284 00:18:48,400 --> 00:18:50,520 Speaker 1: he looked down, saw it and felt, beauty, I'll get it. Well, 285 00:18:51,280 --> 00:18:52,960 Speaker 1: I would have done that when I was seventeen. I'd 286 00:18:53,000 --> 00:18:54,880 Speaker 1: go down and walk out in the tracks and get 287 00:18:54,920 --> 00:18:59,359 Speaker 1: the knife. Probably don't now, And he tells them that story. 288 00:18:59,400 --> 00:19:02,240 Speaker 1: Now it be true, and it certainly is a story 289 00:19:02,840 --> 00:19:06,280 Speaker 1: that has a lot to commend it. It is logical, 290 00:19:07,240 --> 00:19:11,840 Speaker 1: and the police after a while, they obviously nineteen seventy seven, 291 00:19:12,320 --> 00:19:17,240 Speaker 1: early seventy seven, the police bought his story because subsequently, 292 00:19:17,560 --> 00:19:21,679 Speaker 1: many months later, when there was an inquest into the 293 00:19:21,720 --> 00:19:27,520 Speaker 1: death of the two young women. Although his name Perry Crumblus, 294 00:19:27,600 --> 00:19:30,080 Speaker 1: although his name was on a list of sort of 295 00:19:30,160 --> 00:19:35,320 Speaker 1: minor witnesses, he didn't actually come to court. He didn't attend. 296 00:19:35,600 --> 00:19:38,760 Speaker 1: He was a no show year on it, and we 297 00:19:38,800 --> 00:19:43,320 Speaker 1: won't explore that too deeply. So he didn't front for court, 298 00:19:43,560 --> 00:19:46,879 Speaker 1: and the police didn't seem to care much of the 299 00:19:46,920 --> 00:19:50,639 Speaker 1: council assisting the coroner, and the coroner himself did not 300 00:19:50,760 --> 00:19:54,280 Speaker 1: seem to care that this one person out of twenty 301 00:19:55,000 --> 00:19:59,760 Speaker 1: wasn't there. His absence was noted, but nothing, no significance 302 00:19:59,800 --> 00:20:03,280 Speaker 1: was attached to it. This is how it sat for 303 00:20:03,320 --> 00:20:05,680 Speaker 1: more than forty years. Easy Street was just one of 304 00:20:05,720 --> 00:20:10,760 Speaker 1: the great mysteries until officially, at least last September, on 305 00:20:10,800 --> 00:20:16,479 Speaker 1: a Saturday morning, the police announced that they'd arrested a 306 00:20:16,480 --> 00:20:19,520 Speaker 1: man in Rome Airport, and this, of course was his 307 00:20:20,240 --> 00:20:24,080 Speaker 1: Perry Crumblas. And it turns out that you know, Perry's 308 00:20:24,119 --> 00:20:26,840 Speaker 1: name was on a list, a long, long, long list 309 00:20:27,320 --> 00:20:30,240 Speaker 1: of people who've been spoken to back in seventy seven. 310 00:20:30,640 --> 00:20:32,480 Speaker 1: There was a one hundred and thirty odd of them, 311 00:20:32,520 --> 00:20:35,680 Speaker 1: whatever one hundred and forty A lot of people more 312 00:20:35,720 --> 00:20:37,640 Speaker 1: than half of them are still alive. I think ninety 313 00:20:37,640 --> 00:20:41,399 Speaker 1: odd is still alive, and more as a duty and 314 00:20:41,520 --> 00:20:44,120 Speaker 1: a chore than anything else, the police had gone around 315 00:20:44,200 --> 00:20:47,359 Speaker 1: knocking on doors, finding people and saying, oh, sir, you 316 00:20:47,400 --> 00:20:51,840 Speaker 1: know blah blah, could you please lick this swab or whatever, 317 00:20:52,560 --> 00:20:58,960 Speaker 1: and getting DNA samples because the murder scene there was DNA. 318 00:21:01,560 --> 00:21:04,800 Speaker 1: There was fluids body fluids at the murder scene which 319 00:21:04,840 --> 00:21:08,480 Speaker 1: provided DNA samples for the police to test against. It 320 00:21:08,520 --> 00:21:11,600 Speaker 1: would appear that's what it seems like. Now we're not 321 00:21:11,640 --> 00:21:15,800 Speaker 1: going to go into what happened in the meantime. Clearly 322 00:21:16,440 --> 00:21:20,199 Speaker 1: Pericorumblus and one hundred plus others ninety plus others have 323 00:21:20,280 --> 00:21:23,560 Speaker 1: been spoken to, and at some point after that he 324 00:21:23,600 --> 00:21:27,480 Speaker 1: went to Greece. Now again, I wouldn't draw anything adverse 325 00:21:27,680 --> 00:21:30,520 Speaker 1: against that his family had returned to Greece. His parents, 326 00:21:31,200 --> 00:21:37,760 Speaker 1: many many Greek migrants, having achieved a certain age retirement 327 00:21:37,800 --> 00:21:41,280 Speaker 1: age particularly return to Greece because they can go back 328 00:21:41,320 --> 00:21:44,760 Speaker 1: to a family property that is very cheap, or buy 329 00:21:44,800 --> 00:21:48,960 Speaker 1: something very cheaply, often inherit it, and they can retain 330 00:21:49,960 --> 00:21:55,160 Speaker 1: their Australian pension. And rural Greece particularly is full of 331 00:21:55,560 --> 00:22:00,200 Speaker 1: ex Australian and Canadian Greeks who's asking about how the 332 00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:02,800 Speaker 1: foot's going or how the ice hockey is and you know, 333 00:22:02,920 --> 00:22:04,360 Speaker 1: do your driver a hold in the home and all 334 00:22:04,359 --> 00:22:07,280 Speaker 1: that because they used to drive taxies in Melbourne or whatever. 335 00:22:07,680 --> 00:22:11,000 Speaker 1: So Greece is a place that has a big wide 336 00:22:11,359 --> 00:22:16,040 Speaker 1: the aspra of migrants who many of them have gone home, 337 00:22:16,480 --> 00:22:19,480 Speaker 1: and many of them they visit back and forth regularly. 338 00:22:19,520 --> 00:22:21,760 Speaker 1: If you sit on a beach in Greece long enough, 339 00:22:21,800 --> 00:22:26,200 Speaker 1: you'll hear Australian accents, and it is Greek's come home 340 00:22:26,240 --> 00:22:28,720 Speaker 1: to see grandma or auntie or whatever it might be. 341 00:22:29,400 --> 00:22:36,440 Speaker 1: And so, long story short, the likely prosecution case against 342 00:22:37,040 --> 00:22:39,760 Speaker 1: Perry Krumbler's he's probably going to raise the fact that 343 00:22:39,800 --> 00:22:42,560 Speaker 1: he went back to Greece. But the defense, of course 344 00:22:42,600 --> 00:22:44,680 Speaker 1: would raise the fact that a lot of people do. 345 00:22:44,880 --> 00:22:47,800 Speaker 1: Why shouldn't he He liked his dear old mum and 346 00:22:47,840 --> 00:22:49,760 Speaker 1: he wanted to go home so she could cook him, 347 00:22:49,840 --> 00:22:52,800 Speaker 1: you know, eggplant and mussaka and all that good stuff. 348 00:22:52,880 --> 00:22:56,560 Speaker 1: So it's going to be an intriguing case. Why do 349 00:22:56,640 --> 00:23:00,639 Speaker 1: we bring this up, Well, it's just another example of 350 00:23:00,720 --> 00:23:05,840 Speaker 1: how after decades, the long arm of the law reached 351 00:23:05,880 --> 00:23:09,920 Speaker 1: out and tapped somebody on the shoulder when they must 352 00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:14,800 Speaker 1: have believed or hoped that it was all long gone 353 00:23:14,840 --> 00:23:18,919 Speaker 1: and all behind them. In the case of Perry Karumblas, 354 00:23:19,440 --> 00:23:22,399 Speaker 1: we're not suggesting that there's a murder behind him, but 355 00:23:22,520 --> 00:23:25,320 Speaker 1: of course he was questioned about it back in the day, 356 00:23:25,359 --> 00:23:29,199 Speaker 1: so it would be an unpleasant scenario for him just 357 00:23:29,280 --> 00:23:33,480 Speaker 1: being questioned back in nineteen seventy seven. The difference, of course, 358 00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:37,000 Speaker 1: with the Bradley Michelle Buckingham case is that when the 359 00:23:37,000 --> 00:23:39,960 Speaker 1: police came looking, they tapped the shoulder of the man 360 00:23:40,480 --> 00:23:44,560 Speaker 1: against whom they successfully ran a prosecution. That is not 361 00:23:45,359 --> 00:23:49,280 Speaker 1: the case with Perry Karumblas. He will get his day 362 00:23:49,320 --> 00:23:52,480 Speaker 1: in court and he's going to be very ably defended 363 00:23:53,000 --> 00:23:58,360 Speaker 1: by one of the best criminal defense lawyers in Australia, 364 00:23:58,480 --> 00:24:01,320 Speaker 1: Bill doug and that is a very good thing because 365 00:24:01,359 --> 00:24:05,080 Speaker 1: we would hate to see an innocent man go down 366 00:24:06,160 --> 00:24:09,640 Speaker 1: call a technicality. Thanks for listening. 367 00:24:10,119 --> 00:24:13,080 Speaker 2: Life and Crimes is a Sunday Herald Sun production for 368 00:24:13,240 --> 00:24:18,480 Speaker 2: True crime Australia. Our producer is Johnty Burton. For my columns, 369 00:24:18,520 --> 00:24:23,080 Speaker 2: features and more, go to Heroldsun dot com dot AU 370 00:24:23,560 --> 00:24:28,760 Speaker 2: Forward slash Andrew rule. One word. 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