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Speaker 1: Get a welcome to the show. This is better than yesterday.

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Speaker 2: Useful tools and useful conversations to help make your day

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Speaker 2: to day better than yesterday. Every episode since twenty thirteen

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Speaker 2: I watch against Burg. I'm glad you hear. I want

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Speaker 2: you to think of the last time you were in

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Speaker 2: a high pressure situation. Could be one of your kids

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Speaker 2: cut themselves in a way that a band aid is

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Speaker 2: simply not going to fix, a critical moment at work

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Speaker 2: that you needed to be fully focused to figure out

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Speaker 2: because time was a factor, a situation where things out

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Speaker 2: of your control seemed.

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Speaker 1: To be making decisions for you.

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Speaker 2: So if you accepted where you were and focused on

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Speaker 2: what you were able to control, that's skill right there.

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Speaker 2: That is exactly the same reset that elite athletes do

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Speaker 2: right before they are serving for a match or kicking

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Speaker 2: a goal from outside fifty to win a premiership. How

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Speaker 2: do I know because the man that taught those athletes

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Speaker 2: how to do that told me so in the conversation

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Speaker 2: that you are.

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Speaker 1: Going to hear today.

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Speaker 2: Ben Crowe is a former Nike marketing executive who has

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Speaker 2: become one of the world's most in demand mindset coaches.

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Speaker 2: He's worked with some of the world's most successful elite

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Speaker 2: athletes Andre Agasi, Dan Ricardo, Ashbarti, dilan Orquott, Stephanie Gilmore.

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Speaker 2: He's coached NBA basketball teams, professional football teams, the Australian

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Speaker 2: cricket team. He took the Richmond Tigers from a thirty

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Speaker 2: seven year premiership drought to winning three.

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Speaker 1: Flags in four years.

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Speaker 2: His approach to pressure, perfectionism and acceptance is it's life changing,

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Speaker 2: and he's written a book about it. It's called Where

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Speaker 2: the Light Gets In Simple, playful and profound prospective Shifts

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Speaker 2: to Change your Life.

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Speaker 1: It's a great book. It does what it says on

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Speaker 1: the box.

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Speaker 2: This conversation that he and I are about to have,

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Speaker 2: it's not about winning, It's about what happens before you win,

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Speaker 2: and what happens when there isn't one. Today you'll hear

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Speaker 2: that the most powerful mindset shift isn't about becoming tougher,

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Speaker 2: it's about becoming more honest, and why vulnerability might be your.

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Speaker 1: Greatest competitive advantage.

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Speaker 2: You'll also hear why separating what we do from who

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Speaker 2: we are can really change everything. And if you've ever

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Speaker 2: felt the weight of expectation, to be it your own

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Speaker 2: expectation or someone else's. If you've wrestled with self doubt

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Speaker 2: or wanted why success doesn't always equal happiness, you are

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Speaker 2: going to get a lot out of the days show enjoy.

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Speaker 1: This is the one and only Ben Crow. Thanks much

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Speaker 1: for coming. I'm really I'm really glad you made it.

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Speaker 2: I be wanting to speak to you for a long time,

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Speaker 2: But about a year ago I thought to myself, hang

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Speaker 2: on a second here, I think this is an unfair fight.

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Speaker 2: Is Trent Cotchin secretly on the phone to you during

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Speaker 2: Dancing with the Stars.

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Speaker 1: I didn't know.

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Speaker 3: I didn't teach you many of these moves, that's for sure. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: But like taught him how to embrace vulnerability right and

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Speaker 3: how to play with it rather than fear it, and

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Speaker 3: that pressure doesn't exist unless he's focusing on the outcome

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Speaker 3: of the dance. And so I taught him all those things.

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Speaker 3: But the rest is on him.

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Speaker 2: Because what I love spending time with people like that. Well,

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Speaker 2: for one thing, what was really handy about having someone

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Speaker 2: who's won three AFL Grand Final penance is like, it's

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Speaker 2: a very physical gig dancing with the Stars. It's probably

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Speaker 2: the hardest physical. People always say it, and they're right.

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Speaker 2: It's the hardest physical thing. Yeah, you ever do if

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Speaker 2: you're not a professional athlete. But you say, oh, man, Like,

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Speaker 2: the difference between professional athletes and amateur athletes is you

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Speaker 2: get paid to recover. Like your skills might be the

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Speaker 2: same as an amateur, but your time to not do

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Speaker 2: meetings and just recover and relax and sleep is what

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Speaker 2: you get paid for.

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Speaker 1: And so I said to trans, like, you know what

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Speaker 1: to be really good? Do you know anyone that can

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Speaker 1: get us a game? Ready?

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Speaker 2: One of those kind of ice machine pressure things. Ninety

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Speaker 2: seven minutes later in the green room and Dancing with

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Speaker 2: the Stars is the full sideline AFL kit with all

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Speaker 2: of velcrow, the whole thing.

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Speaker 1: How did you do that?

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Speaker 3: I guess the contacts contacts, that's the little areas. I

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Speaker 3: remember when Koch rang me to ask me well to

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Speaker 3: mention the idea and asked me what I thought, And

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Speaker 3: I said to him, Okay, that's before we get into play.

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Speaker 3: Let's get into purpose, Like why do you want to

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Speaker 3: do it? And he said he would love his kids

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Speaker 3: to see his dad do something really vulnerable and get

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Speaker 3: out of the comfort zone. I thought, that's just such

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Speaker 3: a cool and you're not stressed about looking like a

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Speaker 3: dick or you know, failing and so forth, and he goes, nah,

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Speaker 3: hell no, and I go, okay, Well, then it ticks

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Speaker 3: the playbox, right, And to me, dancing as a former

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Speaker 3: play definitely ticks the purpose box and you're definitely going

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Speaker 3: to learn something, so it kind of ticks the potential

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Speaker 3: box as well. So in terms of motivation wise, it's like, yeah,

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Speaker 3: it made so much sense.

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Speaker 1: It's very similar reasons to me.

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Speaker 2: I wanted Georgia, who you just met upstairs, is a

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Speaker 2: dance kid. I've been a dance dad, you know. I've

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Speaker 2: met her when she was ten. I've dragged suitcases full

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Speaker 2: of costumes across the country to Defford's. You know, I

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Speaker 2: don't think the people outside the dance world know what

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Speaker 2: goes on there totally.

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Speaker 1: There's a lot.

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Speaker 2: But dance gave her so much, and I really wanted

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Speaker 2: to show her, you know how impression, how it mutually

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Speaker 2: impressed me, and how you know how influenced I have

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Speaker 2: been by that. But I also wanted Wolfgang, who is

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Speaker 2: five at the time he six now, to see like

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Speaker 2: it's important to do stuff that's hard.

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Speaker 1: It's important to say yes to things.

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Speaker 2: You're no good at because who you get, even if

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Speaker 2: you don't win or whatever, who you get to become.

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Speaker 1: Because you said yes to it is worth it.

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Speaker 2: And it was hard as fuck and it was terrible

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Speaker 2: being on the other side of the reality TV game.

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Speaker 2: And I've done a whole podcasts about how unprepared I

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Speaker 2: was for it, and yet I learned some really valuable lessons,

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Speaker 2: like one I unlocked it. Actually I required more external

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Speaker 2: validation than.

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Speaker 1: I thought I did.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and that was fascinating to me because I thought

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Speaker 2: I had it locked down.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it turns out I didn't.

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Speaker 3: Well, you're human, right, You're human, and we crave connection

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Speaker 3: to the tribe, and so sometimes validation, I mean, in

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Speaker 3: the right context, it's it's funny. You're not nice to

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Speaker 3: have some validation for a job well done or hardware

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Speaker 3: if you crave it two much. That's obviously ego and

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Speaker 3: fear can kind of creep in. So that's so interesting. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: I mean, we could give the whole podcast just on

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Speaker 3: this topic, right, because you know, I used to tell clients,

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Speaker 3: you know, it's funny. There's one of the chapters in

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Speaker 3: the book, it's about redefining success from an external to

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Speaker 3: an internal and I was trying to work out how

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Speaker 3: to finish the chapter. And I often used to tell

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Speaker 3: clients that you're either winning or learning, but I was wrong,

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Speaker 3: and I tell this chapter. I was trying to work

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Speaker 3: out how to finish it. And just before, just before

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Speaker 3: I tried to finish the chapter, my beautiful father in

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Speaker 3: law passed away sell his dad Rod, and his very

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Speaker 3: last Christmas, he learned a new game and the game

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Speaker 3: was beer pong. How well you had to how you

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Speaker 3: know beer pong?

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Speaker 2: He was eighty six, eighty six year old man, flinging

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Speaker 2: ping pong balls into it. It's like a bowling pin

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Speaker 2: table to arrange correct of cups with a certain amount

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Speaker 2: of beer in them.

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Speaker 1: And the idea is that is it whatever when you

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Speaker 1: landed in.

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Speaker 3: If someone else lands in yours, you've got to skull that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: The idea is that your ability to perform the game

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Speaker 2: decreases the better your opponent does.

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Speaker 1: It's a terrible drinking game.

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Speaker 3: So anyway, about fifteen minutes into the game, he says

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Speaker 3: to me, this is the best game ever. And I

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Speaker 3: said why because he said, because even when you lose,

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Speaker 3: you're win. He loves beer. And I was thinking about

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Speaker 3: it when I was trying to wrap up this chapter

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Speaker 3: in terms of redefining what a win is right, and

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Speaker 3: I thought, you know what, He's kind of right because

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Speaker 3: if something doesn't go your way today, but there's a

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Speaker 3: lesson in it, like there's a learning in it, like

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Speaker 3: there's some kind of growth in it, then that's technically

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Speaker 3: a win. So even when you lose, you win, just

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Speaker 3: like my beautiful father in Lam said. So it's true.

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Speaker 2: I think the first time I saw a coach go

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Speaker 2: absolutely ape shit when there, you know, athlete one was

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Speaker 2: Laurie Lawrence going burko when Duncan Armstrong won. I think

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Speaker 2: it was sole this whole Olympics. And since you know,

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Speaker 2: there's always an Australian camera on the swimming coach because

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Speaker 2: they're generally the guys who go completely nuts when you're

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Speaker 2: watching your clients. You open the book with a story

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Speaker 2: about watching Ashbarty at the French Open, But when you're

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Speaker 2: watching your clients, say, for example, Richmond getting their first

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Speaker 2: pennet in thirty seven years, what do you like to

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Speaker 2: watch TV with? Are you just are you at the game?

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Speaker 2: Or like, if you're watching on TV, are you nuts?

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Speaker 2: Are do you go Burgo in the stands.

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Speaker 3: No, I'm supposed to be the one, like in the

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Speaker 3: coach's box, who's more more calm and composed. I have

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Speaker 3: this kind of playful thing where I tell myself that

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Speaker 3: I can manifest my thoughts onto my clients. Obviously I

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Speaker 3: don't think I can in real terms, but I pretend

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Speaker 3: I can. So if I'm saying, I feel like my

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Speaker 3: role when I'm watching is to have the same because

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Speaker 3: I obviously know what an athlete's mantras are, what their

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Speaker 3: words are, and what their distractions are as well, So

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Speaker 3: I feel like if I can transport my thoughts onto

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Speaker 3: them as opposed to everyone else's in the coach's box.

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Speaker 3: I was talking to ash Barty's mom last last week,

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Speaker 3: and I said to her, you know, I used to

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Speaker 3: have her knees would shake in the coach's box and

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Speaker 3: I would and she would be right behind me. I

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Speaker 3: have all these bruises in the back of my head,

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Speaker 3: all right. So then I had to teach her how

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Speaker 3: to become a composed and so forth. The problem is,

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Speaker 3: when you're a coach or you're a parent so forth,

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Speaker 3: you can't play a role. You can't actually have any

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Speaker 3: agency on the court, but you love them so much.

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Speaker 3: So it's very hard to balance that with accepting the

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Speaker 3: things you can't control, focusing on the things you can

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Speaker 3: and have that positive intent. And I often have to

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Speaker 3: advise a lot of parents or coaches in terms of

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Speaker 3: language with someone. Dylan Orcott used to say, his parents

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Speaker 3: and his friends and coaches. Big point, big point, Oh no,

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Speaker 3: it's not. It's just like every other point. Andre AGAs

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Speaker 3: used to say, no, one point is more important than

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Speaker 3: the next. If he's serving to win Wimbledon and he

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Speaker 3: suddenly thinks this is a big game, right, he'll be

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Speaker 3: focusing on the outcome of the game, not the process

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Speaker 3: of winning the next point, and he'll tighten up rather

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Speaker 3: than lighten up, and you'll probably double fault. Right, So

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Speaker 3: the context is really really important. So you know, no

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Speaker 3: import is more important than the next. There's no big points.

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Speaker 3: It's just another point. So but because we care so much,

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Speaker 3: we can often care too much about the outcome, which

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Speaker 3: we can't control.

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Speaker 1: The thing that I find fascinating about the more.

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Speaker 2: And it's interesting you mentioned Agassy because I started getting

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Speaker 2: into this kind of stuff I don't know about ten

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Speaker 2: fifteen years ago. Agassi's former tennis coach Jim Fannon wrote

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Speaker 2: a fantastic book about what it was to coach agacy

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Speaker 2: in the ways that he spoke about it and how

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Speaker 2: he drawled it down. And you know, reading your book,

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Speaker 2: people may not realize And if you know we're recording

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Speaker 2: this right off the Australian Open, people you know, you know,

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Speaker 2: might think about that in the back of their minds.

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Speaker 2: Or if you think about an NRL player kicking for

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Speaker 2: converting a try.

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Speaker 1: High performance is actually quite boring. It's not the.

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Speaker 2: Elite thousand frames a second slow motion, here comes the

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Speaker 2: winning move. It's I'm just going to do the same

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Speaker 2: thing I've done ten thousand times before. There just happens

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Speaker 2: to be one hundred and thirty thousand people watching me

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Speaker 2: and how many billions at home. But this is just

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Speaker 2: me running and jumping over a thing to win the

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Speaker 2: thing at the Olympics.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it's actually quite dull, isn't it? Totally?

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Speaker 3: And I mean take out the word high from high performance,

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Speaker 3: right because I've never quite understood that term, because no

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Speaker 3: one ever focuses on low performance, right, It's just what

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Speaker 3: is the performance techniques?

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Speaker 1: Some news departments do focus on. Mine to play performance.

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Speaker 1: But you do mention that in the richmal story.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, totally, totally so.

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Speaker 1: But you're right.

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Speaker 3: What you're referring to is being processed driven, not outcome driven. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: if it's outcome driven, yes, the role of media and

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Speaker 3: entertainment is to create this hyperbowl. There's pressure of the

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Speaker 3: expectation build it up, right, That's that's what creates ratings

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Speaker 3: and advertising dollars. Your role as an athlete is not

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Speaker 3: to listen to any of that shit and get back

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Speaker 3: to what you can control except the things you can't control,

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Speaker 3: and be more processed rather than outcome driven. So you're right,

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Speaker 3: it's technically really really boring and just repeat behavior.

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Speaker 2: And when you watch those elite athletes. People used to

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Speaker 2: give Steve Smith a lot of shit about his little routines.

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Speaker 2: But let the man do what he needs to do

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Speaker 2: if that's what he needs to do, because that's how

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Speaker 2: he gets his body and his brain ready to see

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Speaker 2: one hundred and fifty kilometer in our delivery coming at him,

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Speaker 2: and he knows he's got to make at least a

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Speaker 2: boundary to win the game.

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Speaker 1: Let him do it.

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Speaker 3: Confidence comes from a learned experience, right, And yes, some

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Speaker 3: of the rituals, you know, Rappha pulling his undies out

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Speaker 3: of his pants in between and not standing on the

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Speaker 3: lines between points, and Steve Smith with his mannerisms and

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Speaker 3: so forth. But if that's part of their rituals and routines,

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Speaker 3: that reminds them of who they are when they're at

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Speaker 3: their best, whether it's you know, whether it's functional, whether

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Speaker 3: it's fashionable, that's perfectly natural.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 3: We all have our own little quirks and idiosyncrasies, and

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Speaker 3: you want to bring all of that to your performances

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Speaker 3: rather than say, okay, I'm a human doing now, I

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Speaker 3: can't be a human being. Steve's miths real, right. If

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Speaker 3: he's going to meet emotional in a press conference, or

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Speaker 3: he's going to have these little quirks like bringing on

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Speaker 3: that's his authenticity and has the courage to be him

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Speaker 3: and live a life due to him, that's incredible.

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Speaker 2: Unless you Jimmy Connor is in the nineteen oine to

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Speaker 2: four US Open who I read an interview with him

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Speaker 2: and he said, I always bounced the ball six times before,

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Speaker 2: but at match point I bounced at five. He did

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Speaker 2: it deliberately, right, Yeah, wow, yeah, yeah, Well, there's a

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Speaker 2: way to be like, this is going to fuck you.

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Speaker 3: Dylan Orcott always had five bounces, and after every bounce

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Speaker 3: he would have one of his five A game words,

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Speaker 3: so calm, strong, present, clear, free, right, and he'd literally

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Speaker 3: say those words before he bounced it into his herth.

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Speaker 3: So if that's that works for him, right, So yeah,

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Speaker 3: Jimmy Connors was I remember Jimmy very well was quite

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Speaker 3: a quirky character, right, and so was Mace Androe by

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Speaker 3: the way. But I say in terms of you know anger,

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Speaker 3: for instance, anger is a really good emotion. If you're

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Speaker 3: transported onto someone else, that's not a good thing.

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Speaker 1: Let's just put this in the context.

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Speaker 2: People may think, oh McEnroe, he's the guy that does

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Speaker 2: the commentary at the Australian Open, but they may not

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Speaker 2: realize John McEnroe was the first player really in history

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Speaker 2: to take this stuffy white only literally and figuratively. Unless

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Speaker 2: you're out the rash shirts and pants. Everyone's very there's

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Speaker 2: a lot of decorum. It's pins and pins and lemonade.

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Speaker 2: Everyone's really straight up and down, and he is very

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Speaker 2: vocally challenging not only the umpires but other players and

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Speaker 2: letting loose on the court. It made him fantastic to watch,

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Speaker 2: but people were just didn't expect that. They hang on,

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Speaker 2: this is no, that's just not tennis. No, no, no no,

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Speaker 2: and he's like, fuck you, I just won the Grand Slam.

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Speaker 1: I don't care.

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Speaker 3: And Phil Knight, the founder of Nike very much had.

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Speaker 1: I just pick up that name, you just drop and

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Speaker 1: just get team meets Phil Knight.

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Speaker 3: Thank you. There the founder of Nike who John McEnroe,

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Speaker 3: was the first big athlete I've had a deliberate, irreverent,

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Speaker 3: anti establishment kind of approach and attitude. So he absolutely

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Speaker 3: loved a bit like Steve Prefonte and the Runner. It

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Speaker 3: was one of the Nike's very first athletes. Then McEnroe

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Speaker 3: came along, and then Agacy obviously after that as well,

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Speaker 3: brought that very irreverent and you think about you or me, Yes,

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Speaker 3: we want to be anti establishment. We don't want to

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Speaker 3: conformed to everyone else. Yes, there's a tennis player who

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Speaker 3: loves the the Jim Courier kind of very up and

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Speaker 3: down quite last. But there's also another one who likes

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Speaker 3: to go fuck the country club, who wants to wear

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Speaker 3: denim and black and so and have a bit of

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Speaker 3: fun with it.

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Speaker 1: And for me, if that's what you need to.

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Speaker 2: Like. The game is always going to evolve, right and

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Speaker 2: that I got to be a lie And we're talking

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Speaker 2: about tennis, but you know, it's an amazing game that

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Speaker 2: I got to be alive watching Sarrea Williams play and

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Speaker 2: watching her just unapologetically walk out on the court wearing

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Speaker 2: some of the most extraordinary fashion designs, knowing full well

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Speaker 2: what her country feels about African American women, the body shape,

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Speaker 2: the conformities that you know women have about other women

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Speaker 2: about no, you've got to look this way if there's it,

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Speaker 2: and like, and I don't care.

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I can't hear you.

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Speaker 2: That's all these Wimbledon trophies in my ears that are

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Speaker 2: blocking the sound of your voice right now.

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Speaker 1: And it makes the game amazing to watch, totally.

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Speaker 3: Totally, And two of my favorite mantras is the first

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Speaker 3: one is I don't give a shit what you think

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Speaker 3: about me. It's what I think about myself that matters.

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Speaker 3: Right once you can say that to yourself. The second mantras,

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Speaker 3: I don't care what you think about me, but I

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Speaker 3: care about you. Like Serena still cares about other people,

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Speaker 3: she just doesn't care what they think. About her so

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Speaker 3: she can be authentic.

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Speaker 1: It's pretty cool for you know.

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Speaker 2: I just let's just go go back a bit and

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Speaker 2: I want to quote you directly here, So tell me

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Speaker 2: a story, start wherever you want to.

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Speaker 3: Choose well played, well played, kind of put straight back

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Speaker 3: on me.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that is the line that you are. You've written

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Speaker 1: in your.

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Speaker 2: Book, like, this is the line of how you start

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Speaker 2: with someone, because if people don't know what a mindset

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Speaker 2: coach is them like, what are you a psychologist?

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Speaker 1: Are you a sports scientist? You an excellent you know?

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Speaker 1: What is that?

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Speaker 3: What is that? Yeah? The work I do, in simple terms,

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Speaker 3: is help someone with their mindset on the field in

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Speaker 3: a professional sense, but also balance that with their perspective

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Speaker 3: in a personal sense and find that I guess that

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Speaker 3: balance between confidence and happiness or confidence in their skills,

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Speaker 3: but belief in themselves. A part of that process is

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Speaker 3: kind of separating what you do from who you are,

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Speaker 3: right and separating your your performances to the results of

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Speaker 3: those performances. So we call it totally committed, fully detached,

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Speaker 3: Oprah Winfrey calls is detached attachment, so totally attached to

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Speaker 3: what you want to your goals and dreams, right, but

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Speaker 3: detach yourself from whether you get through or not, because

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Speaker 3: so many things you can't control, and if you attach

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Speaker 3: everything to outcome, there's a lot of pressure, right, and

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Speaker 3: you might not get there. So redefining success is part

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Speaker 3: of the process as well. Along that journey, remembering that

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Speaker 3: life isn't serious and it's really important to compete, have

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Speaker 3: fun and play.

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Speaker 1: So how did this? But you know, how did this

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Speaker 1: begin for you?

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Speaker 3: Oh as much luck as it was design. When my

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Speaker 3: dad passed away when I was sixteen, and I just

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Speaker 3: I had this itch that I couldn't scratch how some

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Speaker 3: people just were comfortable in their own skin and others won't,

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Speaker 3: or some people could just navigate life easier than others.

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Speaker 3: And then I went to university and studied anthropology, philosophy

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Speaker 3: and English, thinking.

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Speaker 2: Man, like, you must have been just so hot and

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Speaker 2: rootable right there?

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Speaker 1: You know what do you knowing? Like, was there a

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Speaker 1: barret involved? That is?

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Speaker 3: I had, like most teenagers, no freaking clue what I

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Speaker 3: was doing with my life. And I still don't know

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Speaker 3: what I want to do when I grow up.

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Speaker 2: But you've got, yeah, like much older five older siblings,

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Speaker 2: some of them a lot older than you.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, correct, Yeah. My oldest brother's fifteen years older than me,

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Speaker 3: and they're all doctors and nurses and teachers and lawyers,

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Speaker 3: and I think I wanted to be a want to

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Speaker 3: be of all those. Right, I missed out on law

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Speaker 3: by five marks. And what do I do now? And

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Speaker 3: I didn't realize it at the time anyway, that philosophy

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Speaker 3: is the study of wisdom. Anthropology is like humans and

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Speaker 3: human behavior. And I just loved English because I love

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Speaker 3: storytelling and reading books. And then I joined the Israil

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Speaker 3: Hockey Association. And hockey is a sport in Australia that's

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Speaker 3: very strong participation, but low profile.

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Speaker 1: Field hockey, not the ice version in the States exactly.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, in Europe, yeah correct, yeah, And so I had

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Speaker 3: a lot of freedom to play. So we changed the

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Speaker 3: name of the team to the Kooker Baroughs and created

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Speaker 3: a national hockey league and it was ninety ninety two

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Speaker 3: Barcelona Olympics. I'm twenty one, twenty two years old, and

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Speaker 3: Nike was a very American African American, not very Australian.

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Speaker 3: So I became their first kind of sports marketing manager

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Speaker 3: in Australia and signing up athletes and telling their stories.

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Speaker 3: I did, yes, Shane and Kathy and Wayne, a latent human,

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Speaker 3: a whole bunch of others, and had a fantastic time.

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Speaker 3: And Nike's very much the two things they're passionate about

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Speaker 3: one is athletes and to his storytelling. So storytelling is

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Speaker 3: obviously you just do it and Air Jordan and so forth,

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Speaker 3: and I was just obsessed with athletes, So I guess

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Speaker 3: I learned the craft of storytelling to some degree, but

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Speaker 3: I also learned how distracted athletes get as well. And

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Speaker 3: then I moved overseas with Nike to Portland, Oregon and

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Speaker 3: Hong Kong in ninety six, and that's when I really

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Speaker 3: started to get curious about athletes going off the rails

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Speaker 3: and why. At the Atlanta Olympics, because the games were

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Speaker 3: in Nike's backyard in Atlanta, we had every kind of

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Speaker 3: celebrity wanting to come down, and we had a division

438
00:19:56,119 --> 00:19:58,720
Speaker 3: called Hollywood Promo. So I think of Tom Hanks, all

439
00:19:58,760 --> 00:20:01,879
Speaker 3: the shoes were Nike shoes. Jerry Seinfeld's, you know, I

440
00:20:01,920 --> 00:20:03,960
Speaker 3: think he wore a pair of Nikes in every episode,

441
00:20:04,400 --> 00:20:06,040
Speaker 3: and he was hanging around and I was part of

442
00:20:06,040 --> 00:20:09,080
Speaker 3: the posse, was kind of helping him showing him around,

443
00:20:09,080 --> 00:20:13,640
Speaker 3: introducing him to athletes and so forth, and he said

444
00:20:13,680 --> 00:20:17,600
Speaker 3: something that one day, Jerry Seinfeld, that just completely blew

445
00:20:17,680 --> 00:20:19,520
Speaker 3: my mind, probably changed the course of my life to

446
00:20:19,560 --> 00:20:21,719
Speaker 3: some agree. He said, Ben, there's no such thing as

447
00:20:21,760 --> 00:20:23,480
Speaker 3: fame school where you can learn to be famous and

448
00:20:23,560 --> 00:20:26,199
Speaker 3: deal with that kind of identity issues. And I went

449
00:20:26,200 --> 00:20:28,440
Speaker 3: for a run the next morning. I thought, he's right.

450
00:20:28,520 --> 00:20:30,919
Speaker 3: But there's also no such thing as human being school,

451
00:20:31,400 --> 00:20:33,439
Speaker 3: where you can learn to be a human being first

452
00:20:33,760 --> 00:20:36,119
Speaker 3: and a human doing second. And with the grading system

453
00:20:36,160 --> 00:20:38,639
Speaker 3: that comes in in grade three, kids believe they have

454
00:20:38,680 --> 00:20:41,040
Speaker 3: to do something or achieve something in order to be someone,

455
00:20:41,160 --> 00:20:44,080
Speaker 3: so they've kind of become socially determined rather than self

456
00:20:44,119 --> 00:20:46,000
Speaker 3: determined at the age of nine years old. I just

457
00:20:46,000 --> 00:20:48,000
Speaker 3: think a human's too young for that. And so I

458
00:20:48,040 --> 00:20:50,600
Speaker 3: just had this kind of curiosity and when I left

459
00:20:50,680 --> 00:20:53,399
Speaker 3: Nike that I continue to mentor athletes that I'd stayed

460
00:20:53,400 --> 00:20:57,520
Speaker 3: connected with. And when I came back to Australia, but.

461
00:20:58,000 --> 00:20:59,879
Speaker 2: Who was like, there's two things you mentioned there, and

462
00:21:00,320 --> 00:21:01,560
Speaker 2: I just want to go back to one of them,

463
00:21:01,920 --> 00:21:04,439
Speaker 2: which really stuck out for me because one of my

464
00:21:04,560 --> 00:21:07,520
Speaker 2: closest friends in the world also lost his father when

465
00:21:07,520 --> 00:21:09,280
Speaker 2: we were just teenagers.

466
00:21:09,320 --> 00:21:12,400
Speaker 1: And none of us had any idea of what to do.

467
00:21:12,920 --> 00:21:17,160
Speaker 2: And he talks about the time afterwards where the house

468
00:21:17,240 --> 00:21:20,280
Speaker 2: was just full of people, but eventually the casseroles stopped coming,

469
00:21:20,760 --> 00:21:24,040
Speaker 2: people stopped coming to visit, and then wildly, a couple

470
00:21:24,119 --> 00:21:26,560
Speaker 2: weeks later, the house is emptier than it ever was

471
00:21:27,200 --> 00:21:29,640
Speaker 2: because everyone is gone. You write in the book about

472
00:21:29,680 --> 00:21:32,399
Speaker 2: it was around then you started to experiment with a

473
00:21:32,440 --> 00:21:34,719
Speaker 2: thing called perspective walking. And I'd love you to kind

474
00:21:34,760 --> 00:21:37,639
Speaker 2: of explain, like, sixteen, he's pretty young to start thinking

475
00:21:37,640 --> 00:21:38,600
Speaker 2: about that kind of stuff.

476
00:21:39,359 --> 00:21:40,439
Speaker 1: How did that show up for you?

477
00:21:41,040 --> 00:21:43,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, I remember just trying to make sense of his

478
00:21:44,280 --> 00:21:46,040
Speaker 3: How am I going to get through this kind of grief?

479
00:21:46,160 --> 00:21:49,880
Speaker 3: And again I'm talking retrospectively, but there was no kind

480
00:21:49,920 --> 00:21:52,359
Speaker 3: of you know, sequential learnings here, And it's kind of

481
00:21:52,359 --> 00:21:54,520
Speaker 3: looking back on that particular chapter and kind of navigating

482
00:21:54,520 --> 00:21:56,600
Speaker 3: how did I get through it? And I write in

483
00:21:56,640 --> 00:22:00,639
Speaker 3: the book about my mum's relationship with faith and believe

484
00:22:01,280 --> 00:22:04,400
Speaker 3: and trust, and I didn't quite understand religion at the time,

485
00:22:04,520 --> 00:22:08,879
Speaker 3: probably still don't, but I was fascinated how she was navigating.

486
00:22:08,880 --> 00:22:10,879
Speaker 3: You know, this is her soulmate who was hoping to

487
00:22:10,880 --> 00:22:12,800
Speaker 3: spend the rest of her life with and she picked

488
00:22:12,840 --> 00:22:15,080
Speaker 3: up Dad's cleaning company. She'd worked in other fields, but

489
00:22:15,200 --> 00:22:17,879
Speaker 3: hadn't worked in his actual company. And I used to

490
00:22:17,920 --> 00:22:20,600
Speaker 3: listen to her cry herself to sleep at night and

491
00:22:20,680 --> 00:22:23,560
Speaker 3: so forth, and so I'd have beautiful conversations with her.

492
00:22:23,560 --> 00:22:25,480
Speaker 3: And I remember one day she was driving me to

493
00:22:25,520 --> 00:22:27,440
Speaker 3: school and I just asked her, how are you going

494
00:22:27,520 --> 00:22:30,720
Speaker 3: with all of this? And she she said something was

495
00:22:30,800 --> 00:22:34,400
Speaker 3: quite profound. She goes, I still talk to Dan, which

496
00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:38,040
Speaker 3: is his name, Daniel Crowe. I still talk to him

497
00:22:38,040 --> 00:22:40,439
Speaker 3: every day. I said. Obviously I can't see him, but

498
00:22:40,560 --> 00:22:43,000
Speaker 3: I think he can still hear me, and kind of

499
00:22:43,000 --> 00:22:44,760
Speaker 3: referencing there was kind of like an angel. And I

500
00:22:44,760 --> 00:22:46,760
Speaker 3: thought that was a really powerful metaphor for me in

501
00:22:46,840 --> 00:22:49,359
Speaker 3: terms of almost dedicating the rest of my life to

502
00:22:49,400 --> 00:22:50,760
Speaker 3: my dad a little bit. And that's why I was

503
00:22:50,960 --> 00:22:55,679
Speaker 3: to understand the power of dedication, you know, And that

504
00:22:55,800 --> 00:22:58,080
Speaker 3: was part of the healing process that the other one,

505
00:22:58,080 --> 00:23:00,639
Speaker 3: obviously is just through connection and life of a family

506
00:23:01,040 --> 00:23:04,159
Speaker 3: and friends. So that very much. If I didn't have

507
00:23:04,200 --> 00:23:07,320
Speaker 3: that sense of connection to family and you know, laughter

508
00:23:07,440 --> 00:23:08,800
Speaker 3: was a really big thing for my dad and so

509
00:23:08,920 --> 00:23:12,040
Speaker 3: the family, you know, probably black humor to some degree,

510
00:23:12,840 --> 00:23:14,960
Speaker 3: but that got us through that as well. And I

511
00:23:15,040 --> 00:23:17,679
Speaker 3: kind of learned this, I guess through osmosis, some of

512
00:23:17,720 --> 00:23:21,199
Speaker 3: these principles that come through in anthropology and philosophy and

513
00:23:21,240 --> 00:23:23,280
Speaker 3: that being more purpose driven as well.

514
00:23:23,160 --> 00:23:26,879
Speaker 2: Because as a kid, you know, we're told feelings aren't facts.

515
00:23:26,880 --> 00:23:29,960
Speaker 1: But as a kid, you don't have the ability to overpower.

516
00:23:30,600 --> 00:23:33,280
Speaker 2: Your body's just flooding with these hormones that didn't exist before,

517
00:23:33,680 --> 00:23:37,159
Speaker 2: and to be flooded with this thing to have the

518
00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:39,920
Speaker 2: space to go maybe this isn't right. Maybe everyone is

519
00:23:39,960 --> 00:23:41,960
Speaker 2: actually pretty cool and no one's actually staring at me.

520
00:23:42,520 --> 00:23:44,840
Speaker 2: As far as you're concern, everyone is staring at you,

521
00:23:45,040 --> 00:23:47,640
Speaker 2: and everyone thinks you're an idiot, and you can't. It's

522
00:23:47,640 --> 00:23:50,320
Speaker 2: as real as real can be for you. How as sixteen,

523
00:23:50,359 --> 00:23:51,720
Speaker 2: can you find a separation from that?

524
00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:52,200
Speaker 1: Yeah?

525
00:23:52,240 --> 00:23:54,359
Speaker 3: And I rebelled against that. I went off the rails

526
00:23:54,359 --> 00:23:55,880
Speaker 3: a bit. I didn't want to go to school, and

527
00:23:56,280 --> 00:23:58,560
Speaker 3: I did become very rebellious in a lot of other

528
00:23:58,560 --> 00:24:01,080
Speaker 3: ways as well. And I had some incredible role models

529
00:24:01,080 --> 00:24:02,800
Speaker 3: that brought me back in line, and some of them

530
00:24:02,800 --> 00:24:06,359
Speaker 3: were teachers. I remember Father Shane at White Friars and

531
00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:08,520
Speaker 3: Marie White at White Fries College. They really took me

532
00:24:08,600 --> 00:24:11,080
Speaker 3: under their wing. They could probably see what was happening

533
00:24:11,440 --> 00:24:14,280
Speaker 3: and how much I was grieving as well, but struggling to.

534
00:24:14,359 --> 00:24:16,199
Speaker 1: What did that look like? What did an adult helping

535
00:24:16,359 --> 00:24:17,760
Speaker 1: a sixteen year old kid look like?

536
00:24:18,840 --> 00:24:22,440
Speaker 3: Constantly just checking in, maybe giving me a few chop

537
00:24:22,480 --> 00:24:25,280
Speaker 3: outs if I can got my homeworking on time, driving

538
00:24:25,320 --> 00:24:28,359
Speaker 3: me home from school, treating me as an adult, and

539
00:24:28,440 --> 00:24:32,280
Speaker 3: kind of having adult conversations, just finding probably soft ways

540
00:24:32,600 --> 00:24:36,680
Speaker 3: to not to interfere too much, but often you can

541
00:24:36,720 --> 00:24:39,520
Speaker 3: just help someone with your eyes or just touch on

542
00:24:39,560 --> 00:24:41,399
Speaker 3: the shoulder or so forth. There were just little things

543
00:24:41,440 --> 00:24:44,240
Speaker 3: that made me feel that I'm not alone on this journey,

544
00:24:44,240 --> 00:24:46,960
Speaker 3: that I've got people looking out for me, and that's

545
00:24:46,960 --> 00:24:48,560
Speaker 3: a really, really powerful part of the process.

546
00:24:48,680 --> 00:24:52,119
Speaker 2: Doctor Billy Garvey talks about that, like just be interested

547
00:24:52,359 --> 00:24:53,919
Speaker 2: in a young person. That's the best thing you can

548
00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:55,919
Speaker 2: do for a person that like a kid of a

549
00:24:55,920 --> 00:24:59,600
Speaker 2: friend who's struggling. Just be be interested in them, as

550
00:24:59,600 --> 00:25:01,200
Speaker 2: you said, speak to them as if they're an adult,

551
00:25:01,240 --> 00:25:04,080
Speaker 2: because everyone else in their close cohorts probably speak to

552
00:25:04,119 --> 00:25:07,520
Speaker 2: them like something's wrong with them. It's not, but that's

553
00:25:07,560 --> 00:25:09,679
Speaker 2: just how so just if you can just be a

554
00:25:09,680 --> 00:25:11,560
Speaker 2: different person in their life as an adult and just

555
00:25:11,600 --> 00:25:14,520
Speaker 2: show them that they matter, that's so much more powerful

556
00:25:14,520 --> 00:25:17,200
Speaker 2: than finding the right thing to say or whatever.

557
00:25:17,440 --> 00:25:20,119
Speaker 3: Yeah, totally, And you know, part of vulnerability being open,

558
00:25:20,240 --> 00:25:24,560
Speaker 3: being compassionate, and telling stories. I think that in hindsight,

559
00:25:24,600 --> 00:25:28,639
Speaker 3: they would definitely and deliberately telling me stories that helped

560
00:25:28,640 --> 00:25:31,400
Speaker 3: me make sense that things are going to be okay, right,

561
00:25:31,480 --> 00:25:33,239
Speaker 3: And if you just keep going and things, you know,

562
00:25:33,680 --> 00:25:36,240
Speaker 3: life is difficult, right, Except that life is difficult, it's

563
00:25:36,240 --> 00:25:38,240
Speaker 3: no longer difficult. And it's almost like it's not what

564
00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:41,040
Speaker 3: happens to you, it's how you respond. And you don't

565
00:25:41,040 --> 00:25:43,480
Speaker 3: define yourself by going to school and thinking I'm the

566
00:25:43,480 --> 00:25:45,480
Speaker 3: only one here who doesn't have a dad. It's kind

567
00:25:45,520 --> 00:25:47,080
Speaker 3: of like I've still got an angel in there. But

568
00:25:47,119 --> 00:25:49,600
Speaker 3: how you respond from that and I guess being you know,

569
00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:53,359
Speaker 3: sense of possibility and opportunity, but kind of staying true

570
00:25:53,359 --> 00:25:55,920
Speaker 3: to me. You know, dad had a I like having

571
00:25:55,960 --> 00:25:57,800
Speaker 3: a laugh at things, and I probably lost my humor

572
00:25:57,800 --> 00:25:59,520
Speaker 3: there for a while, and so just slowly bringing that

573
00:25:59,600 --> 00:26:01,080
Speaker 3: back was part of the healing.

574
00:26:01,119 --> 00:26:04,119
Speaker 2: Process as well, besides Jerry Seinfeld saying, hey, you know,

575
00:26:04,160 --> 00:26:06,840
Speaker 2: there's no such thing as fame school. There must have

576
00:26:06,880 --> 00:26:09,760
Speaker 2: been someone along the way who You've got your career

577
00:26:09,760 --> 00:26:12,480
Speaker 2: path at Nike. You're chatting with Phil Knight, you mate, Phil,

578
00:26:13,280 --> 00:26:14,920
Speaker 2: You're obviously saying like, there's.

579
00:26:14,720 --> 00:26:16,720
Speaker 1: A home for me here at Nike. I can I

580
00:26:16,760 --> 00:26:17,560
Speaker 1: can go with this.

581
00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:22,480
Speaker 2: At what point did someone say to you, hey, this thing,

582
00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:25,000
Speaker 2: this thing, this is the thing you did, just do that.

583
00:26:25,840 --> 00:26:28,240
Speaker 3: What I'm doing now, you mean in terms of the mindset.

584
00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:38,000
Speaker 3: I think it was in twenty twelve, Stephanie Gilmour surfer, surfer, Yeah,

585
00:26:38,119 --> 00:26:41,359
Speaker 3: eight time world serving champion, she got attacked by a

586
00:26:41,400 --> 00:26:43,800
Speaker 3: random drug addict at the front of her apartment.

587
00:26:43,680 --> 00:26:46,480
Speaker 1: And terrible happened to cooling out it like awful.

588
00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:48,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, and you know with her hammer and she broke

589
00:26:49,640 --> 00:26:51,239
Speaker 3: cracked her skull and broke her arm and she went

590
00:26:51,280 --> 00:26:54,560
Speaker 3: off the tour and through her through a family and

591
00:26:54,600 --> 00:26:58,440
Speaker 3: through her sponsors, asked if I'd do some sessions with

592
00:26:58,600 --> 00:27:02,119
Speaker 3: step And it was probably the first time that I

593
00:27:02,160 --> 00:27:04,359
Speaker 3: took someone through I guess the whole process, not that

594
00:27:04,359 --> 00:27:06,720
Speaker 3: I knew it at the time. Similar with Richmond right

595
00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:09,440
Speaker 3: from a teen point of view, and to see her

596
00:27:09,440 --> 00:27:12,840
Speaker 3: come out the other side and find her purpose in

597
00:27:12,880 --> 00:27:15,680
Speaker 3: life and establish her values and establish it, I guess

598
00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:18,520
Speaker 3: a mindset put things in perspective. So again, don't be

599
00:27:18,560 --> 00:27:21,520
Speaker 3: defined by your setbacks, defined by how you respond to them.

600
00:27:22,080 --> 00:27:24,560
Speaker 3: And the vulnerability she showed through that process as well.

601
00:27:24,560 --> 00:27:26,920
Speaker 3: That just and to see her then the following year

602
00:27:26,960 --> 00:27:29,040
Speaker 3: win the world title and win another three but be

603
00:27:29,119 --> 00:27:31,280
Speaker 3: so happy as well, a bit like Ash. That was

604
00:27:31,280 --> 00:27:35,000
Speaker 3: probably the first time that probably a few of the

605
00:27:35,040 --> 00:27:37,920
Speaker 3: sponsors and other CEOs that are mentor going, why don't

606
00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:41,080
Speaker 3: you do this full time? I had a consultancy business

607
00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:43,600
Speaker 3: and I was doing business plans but not people plans.

608
00:27:43,640 --> 00:27:45,439
Speaker 3: And someone says it's the people plans that people need

609
00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:47,800
Speaker 3: a lot of help there, right, So that kind of,

610
00:27:48,080 --> 00:27:50,320
Speaker 3: you know, that kind of morphed into again it was

611
00:27:50,359 --> 00:27:53,440
Speaker 3: just a hobby with some AFL coaches and it wasn't

612
00:27:53,480 --> 00:27:58,679
Speaker 3: until Richmond in twenty sixteen and seventeen, where like it

613
00:27:58,720 --> 00:28:01,639
Speaker 3: wasn't supposed to happen that quick, and then twenty eighteen

614
00:28:01,720 --> 00:28:04,880
Speaker 3: happened with the Istrail cricket team and sampaper Gate and

615
00:28:04,920 --> 00:28:07,520
Speaker 3: then Ash Party and then Dylan and then it kind

616
00:28:07,520 --> 00:28:10,280
Speaker 3: of just exploded after that, and in twenty nineteen, I

617
00:28:10,320 --> 00:28:12,520
Speaker 3: took a gap year to work out what I wanted

618
00:28:12,560 --> 00:28:14,960
Speaker 3: to do when I grew up, and there weren't any gaps,

619
00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:16,639
Speaker 3: so it didn't grow up. But I traveled the world

620
00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:20,120
Speaker 3: just to socialize these principles, and it blew me away

621
00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:21,879
Speaker 3: that almost every country I went through, we were all

622
00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:24,800
Speaker 3: struggling with the same thing. Then twenty twenty happened, the

623
00:28:24,800 --> 00:28:26,480
Speaker 3: whole world had a gap year with the pandemic with

624
00:28:26,520 --> 00:28:28,840
Speaker 3: the pandemic, and that gave me time to kind of

625
00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:31,439
Speaker 3: codify this and kind of then put it back out

626
00:28:31,440 --> 00:28:31,879
Speaker 3: in the world.

627
00:28:32,880 --> 00:28:34,280
Speaker 2: I hope it was not too obvious that I am

628
00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:36,880
Speaker 2: nerding out on having Ben Crow in my house. We're

629
00:28:36,920 --> 00:28:39,200
Speaker 2: back with Ben in a moment. He's going to share

630
00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:42,600
Speaker 2: with us the three most powerful words he's come across.

631
00:28:42,680 --> 00:28:44,480
Speaker 2: We're going to talk a bit more about acceptance and

632
00:28:44,560 --> 00:28:49,440
Speaker 2: how your definition of success can if you think about

633
00:28:49,480 --> 00:28:51,360
Speaker 2: it correctly, it can actually help you have a far

634
00:28:51,520 --> 00:28:53,880
Speaker 2: happier life. Before we do that, I did want to

635
00:28:53,960 --> 00:28:57,480
Speaker 2: quickly say I do a live storytelling show quite regularly

636
00:28:57,520 --> 00:29:00,080
Speaker 2: here in Sydney. It is called story Club. It's I

637
00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:02,920
Speaker 2: have comedy Storytelling. It's been running since two thousand and nine,

638
00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:04,800
Speaker 2: and we have tickets for the next show on sale

639
00:29:04,840 --> 00:29:07,160
Speaker 2: right now. The lineup is fantastic. You'll find the link

640
00:29:07,160 --> 00:29:08,840
Speaker 2: in the show notes. That's also where you can find

641
00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:10,520
Speaker 2: the YouTube channel to kind of check out what Story

642
00:29:10,520 --> 00:29:11,959
Speaker 2: Club's about. And if you haven't been able to make

643
00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:13,560
Speaker 2: it to a show, that's where you'll be able to

644
00:29:13,600 --> 00:29:15,880
Speaker 2: see stories that where I'll put a new story up

645
00:29:15,880 --> 00:29:17,760
Speaker 2: every week. There's also the link to get on the newsletter.

646
00:29:17,800 --> 00:29:21,160
Speaker 2: I'm putting that newsletter out ver very regularly. I'm putting

647
00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:22,440
Speaker 2: it out all the time. I'm putting it every week.

648
00:29:22,440 --> 00:29:24,960
Speaker 2: I'm really happy about that. Also, the YouTube channel for

649
00:29:24,960 --> 00:29:27,160
Speaker 2: this show, because all the interviews you hear here you

650
00:29:27,200 --> 00:29:30,320
Speaker 2: can watch there here there, watch where who knows. Let's

651
00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:31,000
Speaker 2: play some mats.

652
00:29:34,360 --> 00:29:35,600
Speaker 1: You mentioned religion before.

653
00:29:35,880 --> 00:29:37,920
Speaker 2: I was brought up in a similar school to the

654
00:29:37,960 --> 00:29:39,720
Speaker 2: one that you talked about about eleven years old.

655
00:29:39,720 --> 00:29:40,719
Speaker 1: I was like, hang on a second.

656
00:29:41,240 --> 00:29:43,720
Speaker 2: If I'm created in this person's image and this thing

657
00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:46,840
Speaker 2: that I'm doing feels really good and I'm supposed to

658
00:29:46,840 --> 00:29:49,640
Speaker 2: burn in hell for doing it, I think I'm going

659
00:29:49,720 --> 00:29:51,040
Speaker 2: to do the thing that feels really.

660
00:29:50,800 --> 00:29:53,160
Speaker 1: Good, and that was it. I was out.

661
00:29:54,280 --> 00:29:58,160
Speaker 2: And it's kind of you know, been fortified by curious

662
00:29:58,280 --> 00:30:01,960
Speaker 2: inquisition inquisitions into history and like, hang on a second,

663
00:30:01,960 --> 00:30:04,280
Speaker 2: wait what the first person to write about him didn't

664
00:30:04,400 --> 00:30:06,360
Speaker 2: actually know him and even then it was like thirty

665
00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:07,240
Speaker 2: years after he died.

666
00:30:08,040 --> 00:30:12,960
Speaker 1: Okay, great story, but you do you yet.

667
00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:15,959
Speaker 2: I've always been fascinated by the parallels between a lot

668
00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:17,960
Speaker 2: of these things that you describe and you work with

669
00:30:18,480 --> 00:30:21,160
Speaker 2: and that so we don't forget them as humans. A

670
00:30:21,200 --> 00:30:25,920
Speaker 2: lot of them become either culturally ingrained or you know,

671
00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:28,560
Speaker 2: through a ritual that's got to do with the religion

672
00:30:28,880 --> 00:30:31,360
Speaker 2: for example, where things like community like gathering for dinner

673
00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:34,760
Speaker 2: once a week, or it's a thing to do something,

674
00:30:34,960 --> 00:30:37,880
Speaker 2: to do something for another person is a really important

675
00:30:37,880 --> 00:30:40,160
Speaker 2: thing and you should be doing it all the time.

676
00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:42,600
Speaker 2: And you know, just codifying a lot of the you know,

677
00:30:42,720 --> 00:30:47,320
Speaker 2: it's outwardly focused. And you talk about being in Russia

678
00:30:47,360 --> 00:30:49,240
Speaker 2: and speaking with people there and they go, this.

679
00:30:49,160 --> 00:30:51,560
Speaker 1: Sounds like dull story. You're like, hang over, what, there's

680
00:30:51,560 --> 00:30:53,720
Speaker 1: that one Dostoevsky. You're like, hang on what.

681
00:30:55,080 --> 00:30:58,480
Speaker 2: These things have been around for thousands of years and

682
00:30:58,520 --> 00:31:02,360
Speaker 2: they kind of help us I guess transcend the brains

683
00:31:02,360 --> 00:31:05,960
Speaker 2: and bodies that we left the world we used to

684
00:31:06,040 --> 00:31:09,120
Speaker 2: live in before agriculture, I guess because we still existing

685
00:31:09,160 --> 00:31:11,600
Speaker 2: with all those systems that kept us safe from death

686
00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:12,200
Speaker 2: and plague.

687
00:31:12,240 --> 00:31:17,360
Speaker 1: And raiders not the camera ones, but or Oakland or

688
00:31:17,480 --> 00:31:18,320
Speaker 1: la I can't remember.

689
00:31:18,120 --> 00:31:22,280
Speaker 3: Where they are now. They're both. There's a few raiders.

690
00:31:22,560 --> 00:31:25,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, But it's fascinating to me that these concepts that

691
00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:28,200
Speaker 2: you write about a lot of people write about them.

692
00:31:28,280 --> 00:31:28,920
Speaker 1: There's not new.

693
00:31:29,040 --> 00:31:30,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's really important that I call that out in

694
00:31:30,960 --> 00:31:33,160
Speaker 3: the introduction. Right, these principles are two and a half

695
00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:37,280
Speaker 3: thousand years old, and if you study any of the

696
00:31:37,320 --> 00:31:43,520
Speaker 3: ologies as I call them, whether it's psychology, philosophy, sociology, anthropology, theology, mythology,

697
00:31:44,360 --> 00:31:46,640
Speaker 3: and you kind of mind them for certain patterns that

698
00:31:46,640 --> 00:31:48,360
Speaker 3: they have in common. And I think that's my only

699
00:31:48,400 --> 00:31:52,400
Speaker 3: skill as pattern recognition, is to identify the the but

700
00:31:52,520 --> 00:31:55,320
Speaker 3: also then simplify them, kind of simplify the mind fuckery

701
00:31:55,360 --> 00:31:57,360
Speaker 3: of the jargon that they that each of them use.

702
00:31:57,720 --> 00:31:59,880
Speaker 3: And they're all incredibly powerful in their own right, right,

703
00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:02,520
Speaker 3: But where's the consistency that I can then teach a

704
00:32:02,560 --> 00:32:05,960
Speaker 3: teenage kid or a professional athlete or a CEO, and

705
00:32:06,040 --> 00:32:08,840
Speaker 3: I think that's been the fun, playful journey for me

706
00:32:09,080 --> 00:32:10,960
Speaker 3: is kind of And if you look at all of those,

707
00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:13,719
Speaker 3: all the ologies and all the isms, you'll start to

708
00:32:13,720 --> 00:32:17,320
Speaker 3: see some really consistent themes. And for me, two or

709
00:32:17,320 --> 00:32:22,320
Speaker 3: three of the most important themes is love, right, you know,

710
00:32:22,400 --> 00:32:25,200
Speaker 3: and for me, I'm probably less religious and definitely more spiritual.

711
00:32:25,800 --> 00:32:29,200
Speaker 3: But you'll find across all of those, when it's all

712
00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:32,480
Speaker 3: said and done, the belief that you're worthy of love

713
00:32:33,120 --> 00:32:36,120
Speaker 3: no matter what, just as you are. If you have

714
00:32:36,240 --> 00:32:39,320
Speaker 3: that belief, and you mentioned with my dad passing away, thankfully,

715
00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:44,400
Speaker 3: through teachers and friends and family, I learned that maybe

716
00:32:44,440 --> 00:32:46,400
Speaker 3: I am worthy of I've lost my dad, so you

717
00:32:46,440 --> 00:32:49,280
Speaker 3: have that kind of separation anxiety, but maybe I am

718
00:32:49,360 --> 00:32:50,960
Speaker 3: enough just as I am no matter what. Because and

719
00:32:50,960 --> 00:32:52,400
Speaker 3: if you have that, you'll trust that whether you win

720
00:32:52,480 --> 00:32:54,680
Speaker 3: to lose a game of tennis or losing this test,

721
00:32:55,400 --> 00:32:57,200
Speaker 3: it's going to be okay because you know you're enough.

722
00:32:59,080 --> 00:33:01,400
Speaker 3: I guess you could call that a attachment, I'm worthy

723
00:33:01,440 --> 00:33:04,800
Speaker 3: of love belonging connection that attachment. The second I guess

724
00:33:05,000 --> 00:33:08,800
Speaker 3: consistency across all those once you have that foundation is

725
00:33:09,400 --> 00:33:11,480
Speaker 3: then have the courage to live a life true to you,

726
00:33:12,240 --> 00:33:14,800
Speaker 3: and the courage to be you. And then trust if

727
00:33:14,840 --> 00:33:17,800
Speaker 3: you keep chipping away, things will turn out to realize

728
00:33:17,800 --> 00:33:20,280
Speaker 3: your potential. And I guess that's called courage. And both

729
00:33:20,280 --> 00:33:24,080
Speaker 3: those principles exist, love and courage. Indigenous tribes call these

730
00:33:24,840 --> 00:33:28,320
Speaker 3: roots and wings foundational roots that you create through the

731
00:33:28,320 --> 00:33:30,480
Speaker 3: sense of family and love and connection. But then the

732
00:33:30,560 --> 00:33:32,560
Speaker 3: courage to spread your wings and see how far you

733
00:33:32,600 --> 00:33:36,520
Speaker 3: can go. I think all of those and while there's

734
00:33:36,600 --> 00:33:38,560
Speaker 3: nine chapters in the book and they all have a

735
00:33:38,560 --> 00:33:41,160
Speaker 3: different problem to solve or a different mindset to shift

736
00:33:41,760 --> 00:33:44,320
Speaker 3: for me, they all share one very common theme, and

737
00:33:44,320 --> 00:33:47,720
Speaker 3: that's learning to accept the things you can't control and

738
00:33:47,800 --> 00:33:49,560
Speaker 3: focus the time you have left on the things you

739
00:33:49,600 --> 00:33:52,160
Speaker 3: can control and the best version of you. Having just

740
00:33:52,160 --> 00:33:55,400
Speaker 3: have a squizz through your book, So what now?

741
00:33:55,840 --> 00:33:56,640
Speaker 1: So what?

742
00:33:56,800 --> 00:33:57,360
Speaker 3: So? What now?

743
00:33:57,400 --> 00:33:57,520
Speaker 1: What?

744
00:33:58,440 --> 00:34:00,120
Speaker 3: I think you know in the first two page as

745
00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:03,520
Speaker 3: I picked up those themes were deeply embredded, because if

746
00:34:03,560 --> 00:34:06,560
Speaker 3: you don't accept yourself, your imperfections, or accept things you

747
00:34:06,560 --> 00:34:09,440
Speaker 3: can't control, you're going to suffer. Yeah, so you know

748
00:34:09,640 --> 00:34:12,520
Speaker 3: isolating between Can I do something about it? If so,

749
00:34:12,600 --> 00:34:15,839
Speaker 3: take action? That's agency, right, If not, can I accept it?

750
00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:19,040
Speaker 3: And so those principles aren't mine or yours, right, They've

751
00:34:19,040 --> 00:34:20,799
Speaker 3: been around for thousands of years. But I just think

752
00:34:20,800 --> 00:34:23,480
Speaker 3: we're so distracted today as a human race for a

753
00:34:23,520 --> 00:34:26,520
Speaker 3: whole host of reasons that we're struggling to accept things

754
00:34:26,640 --> 00:34:28,880
Speaker 3: or even just make a decision and take my agency.

755
00:34:29,040 --> 00:34:31,399
Speaker 2: Can we talk about acceptance for a sec because that

756
00:34:31,560 --> 00:34:36,120
Speaker 2: is that's something that I I know. It's the thing

757
00:34:36,160 --> 00:34:38,680
Speaker 2: that has delivered me from some of the grimmest, most

758
00:34:38,760 --> 00:34:45,560
Speaker 2: dangerous mental health challenges I've ever faced. It doesn't mean

759
00:34:45,560 --> 00:34:48,080
Speaker 2: that it's easy to do, all right. It's a simple

760
00:34:48,360 --> 00:34:53,000
Speaker 2: sentence to say, can you accept it? If not, can

761
00:34:53,040 --> 00:34:55,319
Speaker 2: you do anything but it? Can you do anything about it? Okay, great,

762
00:34:55,400 --> 00:34:57,160
Speaker 2: do something about it? If not, can you accept it?

763
00:34:59,120 --> 00:35:02,480
Speaker 2: That is a like you mentioned him in the book.

764
00:35:03,800 --> 00:35:07,400
Speaker 2: That is like surgery book level, you know, level to

765
00:35:07,440 --> 00:35:09,319
Speaker 2: jump over. Here's a pole volter for people who are

766
00:35:09,320 --> 00:35:11,440
Speaker 2: too young. Yes, that is that is a like a

767
00:35:11,480 --> 00:35:14,000
Speaker 2: powerlift to do is like an impossible thing. It's it's

768
00:35:14,040 --> 00:35:15,759
Speaker 2: just like you may as well, I'm going to lift

769
00:35:15,760 --> 00:35:17,799
Speaker 2: the Sydney Harbor ridge with my little finger. Like no,

770
00:35:17,920 --> 00:35:21,239
Speaker 2: of course, I can't accept that I've broken up with

771
00:35:21,239 --> 00:35:23,120
Speaker 2: this person or the someone I love his diet, or

772
00:35:23,160 --> 00:35:24,040
Speaker 2: I've lost my job.

773
00:35:24,520 --> 00:35:27,560
Speaker 1: What happens to us if we can't find acceptance?

774
00:35:28,360 --> 00:35:31,760
Speaker 3: But yeah, or by definition, if you can't accept things,

775
00:35:31,800 --> 00:35:34,759
Speaker 3: you'll be comparing and judging yourself accordingly, you'll get out

776
00:35:34,800 --> 00:35:38,040
Speaker 3: of you and create all this unnecessary interference. So there's

777
00:35:38,120 --> 00:35:40,279
Speaker 3: us so many challenges if we don't Yeah. As a

778
00:35:40,320 --> 00:35:42,320
Speaker 3: human race, we suck at acceptance. It's one of the

779
00:35:42,360 --> 00:35:44,440
Speaker 3: most powerful mindset muscles we've got access to, and we

780
00:35:44,480 --> 00:35:46,440
Speaker 3: don't understand how to hunt. We're we're not trained how

781
00:35:46,440 --> 00:35:48,920
Speaker 3: to do it. And because there's so much interference today

782
00:35:49,120 --> 00:35:52,719
Speaker 3: boundaries of being chrissed, we struggle with it so bad.

783
00:35:52,760 --> 00:35:54,800
Speaker 3: When the first time I read The Road Less Traveled,

784
00:35:55,640 --> 00:35:57,440
Speaker 3: it's one of the one of the top three most

785
00:35:57,480 --> 00:35:59,440
Speaker 3: important books ever ever written. Right now you don't need

786
00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:01,479
Speaker 3: to read it's a because it's a deep psychology book.

787
00:36:01,520 --> 00:36:04,600
Speaker 3: But the punchline was on the first page, and it

788
00:36:04,640 --> 00:36:07,200
Speaker 3: was actually the first three words of the first page.

789
00:36:07,760 --> 00:36:11,000
Speaker 3: The first three words of this book, I profound life

790
00:36:11,400 --> 00:36:16,080
Speaker 3: is difficult. But the second sentence was the clincher. Once

791
00:36:16,120 --> 00:36:20,000
Speaker 3: you accept that life is difficult, life is no longer difficult.

792
00:36:20,280 --> 00:36:22,920
Speaker 3: The powers in the acceptance. And there's two things in

793
00:36:22,960 --> 00:36:26,680
Speaker 3: particular we need to learn to accept. One is ourselves

794
00:36:26,840 --> 00:36:30,720
Speaker 3: our own imperfections. So I'm not comparing myself against against

795
00:36:30,719 --> 00:36:33,160
Speaker 3: Asha or anyone else, so I'm not judging myself negatively

796
00:36:33,200 --> 00:36:35,560
Speaker 3: as well. And then the other one is accepting the

797
00:36:35,560 --> 00:36:38,520
Speaker 3: things we can't control. I think for me self, acceptance

798
00:36:39,000 --> 00:36:42,960
Speaker 3: begets acceptance. You need to have that foundation first. All

799
00:36:42,960 --> 00:36:45,359
Speaker 3: my clients do an acceptance list, and as you said,

800
00:36:45,400 --> 00:36:47,879
Speaker 3: it's really, really, really hard. And writing the book about

801
00:36:47,920 --> 00:36:50,480
Speaker 3: Molly Piccolam, who just won the World Surfing title, just

802
00:36:50,600 --> 00:36:54,160
Speaker 3: really struggled with acceptance, and Rings goes Crowley, I can't

803
00:36:54,160 --> 00:36:56,840
Speaker 3: get my head around this concept. Help me with this concept,

804
00:36:57,520 --> 00:37:00,120
Speaker 3: and so we needed to find another way in. And

805
00:37:00,120 --> 00:37:02,520
Speaker 3: Molly's one of the most curious athletes I've ever worked with.

806
00:37:02,719 --> 00:37:07,560
Speaker 3: And and she she goes, I can't detach myself from

807
00:37:07,600 --> 00:37:09,319
Speaker 3: outcomes and I can't accept things.

808
00:37:09,360 --> 00:37:09,640
Speaker 1: I said.

809
00:37:09,680 --> 00:37:12,000
Speaker 3: Okay, the most successful people have an appetite for the

810
00:37:12,000 --> 00:37:14,759
Speaker 3: truth by asking themselves this one question, what am I

811
00:37:14,800 --> 00:37:18,120
Speaker 3: in denial of? So Molly, what are you in denial of?

812
00:37:18,320 --> 00:37:21,359
Speaker 3: And what she created was a just admitted list, so

813
00:37:21,360 --> 00:37:23,359
Speaker 3: she couldn't accept things, but maybe she could admit things

814
00:37:23,360 --> 00:37:25,360
Speaker 3: to herself. The first thing she admitted that was that

815
00:37:25,400 --> 00:37:29,799
Speaker 3: she was scared, beautiful, profound, I'm scared. The second thing

816
00:37:29,840 --> 00:37:31,719
Speaker 3: she wanted to put on her just admituted list was

817
00:37:32,160 --> 00:37:34,680
Speaker 3: I want to be a world champion. WHOA, How's that?

818
00:37:34,800 --> 00:37:37,719
Speaker 3: For two extremes. Then she could transport those onto her

819
00:37:37,800 --> 00:37:41,799
Speaker 3: acceptance list and practice letting them go. And I think

820
00:37:41,800 --> 00:37:44,560
Speaker 3: that's so powerful. But she was also taught how to

821
00:37:44,560 --> 00:37:46,839
Speaker 3: bring self compassion. So if you and I were doing

822
00:37:46,920 --> 00:37:49,880
Speaker 3: a session right now, I said, right, oh, share, what

823
00:37:49,920 --> 00:37:52,120
Speaker 3: are some things that you may not be accepting say

824
00:37:52,120 --> 00:37:54,839
Speaker 3: about yourself or where you're going? Right? The first thing

825
00:37:54,840 --> 00:37:56,400
Speaker 3: you might say is what most people say, are just

826
00:37:56,480 --> 00:38:00,000
Speaker 3: I need to accept that I'm imperfect, okay, accept now

827
00:38:00,040 --> 00:38:02,879
Speaker 3: self bring self compassion into the room. What would self

828
00:38:03,000 --> 00:38:05,560
Speaker 3: Because they're best mates self acceptance and self compassion, what

829
00:38:05,719 --> 00:38:08,760
Speaker 3: self compassions say to that self compassion say that's okay,

830
00:38:08,760 --> 00:38:11,640
Speaker 3: you're also original, okay, beautiful? And what's something else you

831
00:38:11,680 --> 00:38:14,120
Speaker 3: need to accept? You might say, I need to accept

832
00:38:14,120 --> 00:38:16,600
Speaker 3: that I don't have it all figured out self compassion?

833
00:38:16,640 --> 00:38:18,640
Speaker 3: What would he say you go, well, that's okay, You're

834
00:38:18,680 --> 00:38:22,359
Speaker 3: work in progress, right. Self acceptance might say I can't

835
00:38:22,400 --> 00:38:26,839
Speaker 3: please everyone. Self compassion says, that's okay, it's not your

836
00:38:26,920 --> 00:38:29,200
Speaker 3: job in life to do so. Right when you start

837
00:38:29,239 --> 00:38:31,880
Speaker 3: to understand these things, and you can have an acceptance

838
00:38:31,880 --> 00:38:34,480
Speaker 3: list every day except that I was stuck in traffic

839
00:38:34,520 --> 00:38:37,320
Speaker 3: on the way here, except you know. So, if you

840
00:38:37,360 --> 00:38:40,080
Speaker 3: can kind of understand the power of just self acceptance

841
00:38:40,440 --> 00:38:43,040
Speaker 3: and then start to identify and say in a performance sense,

842
00:38:43,600 --> 00:38:46,400
Speaker 3: things you can't control, if you don't let them go,

843
00:38:46,520 --> 00:38:49,160
Speaker 3: you'll focus on them, and that will always cause pressure.

844
00:38:49,239 --> 00:38:52,760
Speaker 3: And typically it's expectations of others because I can't control

845
00:38:52,800 --> 00:38:55,640
Speaker 3: what you think of me, and expectations of outcome because

846
00:38:55,640 --> 00:38:58,680
Speaker 3: I can't control the future. So they're always the two

847
00:38:58,960 --> 00:39:01,719
Speaker 3: that will create emotion, all outcome pressure that will sabotage

848
00:39:01,760 --> 00:39:02,320
Speaker 3: that performance.

849
00:39:02,320 --> 00:39:04,359
Speaker 2: It makes sense that you were fascinated with English, because

850
00:39:04,400 --> 00:39:08,080
Speaker 2: you do talk a bit about that that we as

851
00:39:08,120 --> 00:39:12,319
Speaker 2: a community, as society, have shifted our definition of the

852
00:39:12,320 --> 00:39:16,160
Speaker 2: word expectation. It used to be something we can't control,

853
00:39:16,880 --> 00:39:21,480
Speaker 2: and it's now something that we expect to happen. What happened,

854
00:39:21,520 --> 00:39:25,399
Speaker 2: What happens to us when we put when our expectations

855
00:39:25,400 --> 00:39:27,440
Speaker 2: are An example would be so you're going to get

856
00:39:27,440 --> 00:39:31,120
Speaker 2: married on Saturday, and the before cars says, well, we're

857
00:39:31,120 --> 00:39:32,799
Speaker 2: going to bring something bad in here because they're going

858
00:39:32,800 --> 00:39:35,520
Speaker 2: to confuse things. Humans are terrible acceptances. We're also terrible

859
00:39:35,560 --> 00:39:37,360
Speaker 2: at assuming percentage possibilities.

860
00:39:37,400 --> 00:39:39,439
Speaker 1: We're terrible. This is why casinos are great.

861
00:39:39,520 --> 00:39:40,920
Speaker 2: If it says, hey, there's a ten percent chance to

862
00:39:40,960 --> 00:39:42,839
Speaker 2: rain on Saturday, fine, I'm not going to cancel the market.

863
00:39:42,840 --> 00:39:44,840
Speaker 1: It's going to be great. And so when it rains

864
00:39:44,880 --> 00:39:47,320
Speaker 1: on Saturday, it wasn't going to ride. I expected it

865
00:39:47,360 --> 00:39:49,360
Speaker 1: wasn't going to ride. No, it was a ten percent

866
00:39:49,440 --> 00:39:51,200
Speaker 1: chance that it wouldn't. This is what ten percent looks like.

867
00:39:51,520 --> 00:39:55,239
Speaker 2: Now you feel terrible because you know it's raining and

868
00:39:55,280 --> 00:39:58,840
Speaker 2: you expected that it wasn't going to happen, and that sucks.

869
00:39:58,840 --> 00:40:02,200
Speaker 2: So what happens when we change the way when our

870
00:40:02,200 --> 00:40:05,319
Speaker 2: expectations become not This is something I can't control, but

871
00:40:05,640 --> 00:40:07,760
Speaker 2: I definitely am for sure counting on that to happen.

872
00:40:07,920 --> 00:40:10,799
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, that's always create suffering and typically in the

873
00:40:10,800 --> 00:40:14,799
Speaker 3: form of pressure. So don't get me wrong. If I've

874
00:40:14,840 --> 00:40:17,080
Speaker 3: got a wedding this weekend, the goal is for it

875
00:40:17,160 --> 00:40:19,160
Speaker 3: not to rain, but I still need to have a

876
00:40:19,200 --> 00:40:21,560
Speaker 3: strategy if it does rain. We've got tarp ballens and

877
00:40:21,560 --> 00:40:24,200
Speaker 3: we've got umbrellas and so to strategize. But you've got

878
00:40:24,239 --> 00:40:27,360
Speaker 3: to realize there's no guarantees that it won't rain on

879
00:40:27,400 --> 00:40:29,799
Speaker 3: the weekend, right, And that's the problem with how we

880
00:40:29,840 --> 00:40:32,600
Speaker 3: define expectations because it used to mean something you can

881
00:40:32,640 --> 00:40:34,920
Speaker 3: control one hundred percent. I can want the sun to

882
00:40:34,920 --> 00:40:36,680
Speaker 3: come out for the wedding, but I can't guarantee it.

883
00:40:36,680 --> 00:40:39,000
Speaker 3: I can't promise it, so I can't expect it. Right,

884
00:40:39,239 --> 00:40:41,799
Speaker 3: The goal is the any expectations, the things I can

885
00:40:41,960 --> 00:40:44,080
Speaker 3: I can control that I put on myself in that situation.

886
00:40:44,160 --> 00:40:46,480
Speaker 3: So what's the plan if it doesn't work out that way?

887
00:40:46,719 --> 00:40:51,160
Speaker 3: But today, either because we're obsessed with greed or obsessed

888
00:40:51,200 --> 00:40:55,600
Speaker 3: with others' opinions, the definition of expectations today is loosely

889
00:40:55,800 --> 00:40:58,560
Speaker 3: defined as something we can't control, but we still expect it,

890
00:40:59,040 --> 00:41:02,759
Speaker 3: which is also the definition of pressure. So in the

891
00:41:02,800 --> 00:41:05,400
Speaker 3: way that self acceptance and self compassion and best buddies,

892
00:41:05,719 --> 00:41:08,200
Speaker 3: so is pressure and expectations. They follow each other around,

893
00:41:08,239 --> 00:41:10,799
Speaker 3: so that once you know that coupling, the next time

894
00:41:10,800 --> 00:41:15,640
Speaker 3: you're watching live sport or reality TV or Olympic coverage, right,

895
00:41:15,880 --> 00:41:18,440
Speaker 3: you'll always hear those same words in the same sentence

896
00:41:19,360 --> 00:41:21,680
Speaker 3: with our drive to survive. And I was working with

897
00:41:22,719 --> 00:41:25,360
Speaker 3: some drivers through there, I counted the word expectation and

898
00:41:25,360 --> 00:41:28,759
Speaker 3: pressure together like twenty seven times in one episode. It's

899
00:41:28,800 --> 00:41:31,759
Speaker 3: a deliberate formula. Our goal is to realize, hang on

900
00:41:31,840 --> 00:41:35,480
Speaker 3: a sec it's not my role in life, especially teenagers,

901
00:41:36,600 --> 00:41:38,080
Speaker 3: my role in life is not to live up to

902
00:41:38,120 --> 00:41:41,080
Speaker 3: someone else's expectations, or to please others, or to prove

903
00:41:41,120 --> 00:41:44,479
Speaker 3: ourselves to others or be validated by someone else. That's

904
00:41:44,520 --> 00:41:47,799
Speaker 3: not our live task. Our life task is to put

905
00:41:47,800 --> 00:41:49,919
Speaker 3: the expectations we put on ourselves. What kind of human

906
00:41:49,920 --> 00:41:51,879
Speaker 3: do I want to be? What are my values my goals?

907
00:41:51,880 --> 00:41:55,239
Speaker 3: Because I can control those. So once we realize, what's

908
00:41:55,440 --> 00:41:58,560
Speaker 3: the quickest way to remove pressure from your life is

909
00:41:58,600 --> 00:42:01,160
Speaker 3: to reframe what is expected of you and what isn't

910
00:42:01,200 --> 00:42:03,400
Speaker 3: expected of you so you don't get caught up in

911
00:42:03,400 --> 00:42:06,680
Speaker 3: that emotional pressure or the outcome pressure, and then therefore

912
00:42:06,680 --> 00:42:08,920
Speaker 3: you've got the freedom. But as you said, it's it's

913
00:42:08,920 --> 00:42:10,520
Speaker 3: simple for me to say this, but you need more.

914
00:42:10,520 --> 00:42:14,880
Speaker 3: First of all, identify where's my all got different flavors

915
00:42:14,880 --> 00:42:17,040
Speaker 3: of distraction, so kind of identifying where they're coming from.

916
00:42:17,120 --> 00:42:20,920
Speaker 2: It's important when you combine acceptance with our expectation and

917
00:42:20,920 --> 00:42:24,040
Speaker 2: the admitted least like that's some it's hard to do.

918
00:42:24,200 --> 00:42:29,920
Speaker 2: Like for example, a personal example would be after I

919
00:42:29,960 --> 00:42:34,000
Speaker 2: got divorced, it was possible for me to and I

920
00:42:34,040 --> 00:42:35,440
Speaker 2: had to. It's like I just had to accept it

921
00:42:35,560 --> 00:42:40,560
Speaker 2: was happening, and then I also had to accept like

922
00:42:40,600 --> 00:42:46,359
Speaker 2: look for my you know, admit to myself. Well, I

923
00:42:46,480 --> 00:42:48,960
Speaker 2: chose to be in that relationship. I had a choice.

924
00:42:49,000 --> 00:42:51,680
Speaker 2: I chose to choose this person. I chose to go

925
00:42:51,719 --> 00:42:53,760
Speaker 2: into this traction. I chose to get here. I chose

926
00:42:53,800 --> 00:42:55,960
Speaker 2: all the things that I chose to do during that

927
00:42:56,040 --> 00:42:58,799
Speaker 2: relationship for my part, which led to its to mice.

928
00:42:58,880 --> 00:43:01,640
Speaker 2: That was very hard for me to accept. And also

929
00:43:02,120 --> 00:43:07,799
Speaker 2: I had the expectation that well be together forever and

930
00:43:07,800 --> 00:43:10,640
Speaker 2: now here it was none of those things, and it

931
00:43:10,719 --> 00:43:14,360
Speaker 2: was really hard to do. But once I cleared all

932
00:43:14,400 --> 00:43:17,120
Speaker 2: that stuff away, well then I had a baseline that

933
00:43:17,160 --> 00:43:21,080
Speaker 2: I could then work from that was free of all

934
00:43:21,200 --> 00:43:25,720
Speaker 2: kind of lingering. Ikeyhenis on lingering ikeness, you talk about

935
00:43:25,840 --> 00:43:28,960
Speaker 2: shame in the book, and look, athletes are going to

936
00:43:29,120 --> 00:43:30,839
Speaker 2: find their way to you when they're fully formed, Like

937
00:43:30,880 --> 00:43:33,160
Speaker 2: you're not going to teach oh kat hey mate, this

938
00:43:33,160 --> 00:43:34,440
Speaker 2: is how you do a backhand. You're not going to

939
00:43:34,480 --> 00:43:36,720
Speaker 2: teach you more, all right, So when you're at chopu

940
00:43:36,800 --> 00:43:38,879
Speaker 2: and you're going, you know, when you're you know, doing

941
00:43:38,880 --> 00:43:41,279
Speaker 2: your bottom turn, but like there's got nothing to do

942
00:43:41,320 --> 00:43:43,080
Speaker 2: about pressure on what rail or whatever.

943
00:43:43,600 --> 00:43:47,479
Speaker 1: So athletes come to you fully fully formed. What role

944
00:43:47,520 --> 00:43:48,880
Speaker 1: does shame play.

945
00:43:49,360 --> 00:43:52,640
Speaker 2: In the athlete's life when they're in those crucial moments,

946
00:43:52,680 --> 00:43:54,640
Speaker 2: whether they be trying to convert a field goal in

947
00:43:54,640 --> 00:43:56,920
Speaker 2: the footy or you know, trying to take a penalty

948
00:43:56,960 --> 00:43:58,120
Speaker 2: in soccer or something like that.

949
00:43:58,920 --> 00:44:02,279
Speaker 3: So if you define as the fear of disconnection, right,

950
00:44:02,360 --> 00:44:04,160
Speaker 3: connection is why we hear as humans, and shame is

951
00:44:04,200 --> 00:44:06,879
Speaker 3: the fear of disconnection that I'm not worthy of being

952
00:44:06,880 --> 00:44:10,440
Speaker 3: connected to you and so forth. And there's typically two

953
00:44:10,719 --> 00:44:13,480
Speaker 3: forms of it that show up. And in terms of athletes,

954
00:44:13,520 --> 00:44:18,000
Speaker 3: the first one is perfectionism, feeling I have to live

955
00:44:18,120 --> 00:44:21,600
Speaker 3: up to be the perfect athlete. It's called perfect perform

956
00:44:21,719 --> 00:44:24,279
Speaker 3: repeat syndrome, and most athletes have it. If I play

957
00:44:24,320 --> 00:44:26,600
Speaker 3: the perfect game of football, my dad will love me.

958
00:44:26,600 --> 00:44:29,319
Speaker 3: And I'll keep repeating that. Right. If I don't play

959
00:44:29,360 --> 00:44:31,040
Speaker 3: the perfect game for mom, my dad won't love me.

960
00:44:31,120 --> 00:44:33,280
Speaker 2: But what happens is always play the hits, man, Always

961
00:44:33,280 --> 00:44:35,120
Speaker 2: play the hits like that is. It's a classic. It

962
00:44:35,160 --> 00:44:37,520
Speaker 2: is the Hotel California of Sport Totally.

963
00:44:38,080 --> 00:44:41,680
Speaker 3: It means your self worth is conditional, right, which is

964
00:44:41,680 --> 00:44:43,839
Speaker 3: effectively shame. You're not enough until you.

965
00:44:43,880 --> 00:44:45,399
Speaker 2: And that works to do well on the maths test.

966
00:44:45,440 --> 00:44:48,160
Speaker 2: That works for any academic thing. It works for if

967
00:44:48,160 --> 00:44:50,440
Speaker 2: I do the dishes, it works for anything between a

968
00:44:50,480 --> 00:44:51,040
Speaker 2: child and parent.

969
00:44:51,080 --> 00:44:52,960
Speaker 3: And it blew me away when I was researching for

970
00:44:53,000 --> 00:44:55,880
Speaker 3: the book, right. And there's a whole lot of external

971
00:44:55,960 --> 00:44:59,000
Speaker 3: reasons why it's getting worse and worse and worse. Whether

972
00:44:59,040 --> 00:45:03,000
Speaker 3: it's consumerism, whether it's materialism, whether it's the neuroscience around

973
00:45:03,000 --> 00:45:06,319
Speaker 3: the media industry with that cortisol you clickbait, whether it's

974
00:45:06,360 --> 00:45:10,040
Speaker 3: the social media and social comparison, whether it's advertising in

975
00:45:10,080 --> 00:45:11,920
Speaker 3: terms of shame based I'm not pretty enough until I

976
00:45:11,920 --> 00:45:14,920
Speaker 3: buy that handbag and so forth. It actually happens in

977
00:45:15,040 --> 00:45:17,920
Speaker 3: education as well, right, because in most countries around the world,

978
00:45:17,920 --> 00:45:21,600
Speaker 3: in grade three, that's when grading gets introduced, and that's

979
00:45:21,640 --> 00:45:25,040
Speaker 3: when kids go from intrinsically playing with numbers and playing

980
00:45:25,040 --> 00:45:29,000
Speaker 3: with shapes to extrinsic because suddenly there's grades, and suddenly

981
00:45:29,000 --> 00:45:31,279
Speaker 3: my parents are interested in my grades. And from that

982
00:45:31,360 --> 00:45:33,799
Speaker 3: moment on, kids learn they have to do something or

983
00:45:33,840 --> 00:45:37,480
Speaker 3: achieve something in order to be someone, which is conditional,

984
00:45:37,520 --> 00:45:40,279
Speaker 3: which is shame again. Right. So that's why we're talking

985
00:45:40,280 --> 00:45:43,120
Speaker 3: about rewarding process, not outcome, as we mentioned at the start,

986
00:45:43,160 --> 00:45:47,160
Speaker 3: but also rewarding intrinsic not extrinsic motivation, so they don't

987
00:45:47,200 --> 00:45:49,239
Speaker 3: define their self worth on whether they get there or not.

988
00:45:49,719 --> 00:45:51,840
Speaker 3: And I think it's really really important, especially for athletes.

989
00:45:52,120 --> 00:45:54,720
Speaker 3: The bigger one for athletes is also separating their identity

990
00:45:54,719 --> 00:45:57,360
Speaker 3: from what they do to who they are, Because what

991
00:45:57,400 --> 00:45:59,600
Speaker 3: happens when you're retired, does that mean you're a nobody?

992
00:46:00,040 --> 00:46:01,680
Speaker 3: Happens if things don't go your way? Does that mean

993
00:46:01,760 --> 00:46:04,799
Speaker 3: you're a failure as a human being. So perfectionism is

994
00:46:04,800 --> 00:46:07,719
Speaker 3: a really big one, and that's why accepting imperfection right.

995
00:46:07,719 --> 00:46:09,040
Speaker 3: One of the reasons the book is called Where the

996
00:46:09,080 --> 00:46:11,640
Speaker 3: Lightheads In. There's all a play on Leonard Cohen's song

997
00:46:12,080 --> 00:46:14,600
Speaker 3: you know, Ring the Bells that still can ring forget

998
00:46:14,640 --> 00:46:18,240
Speaker 3: your perfect offering. There is a crack crack in everything,

999
00:46:18,280 --> 00:46:20,880
Speaker 3: and that's where the light head's in. So you know,

1000
00:46:20,960 --> 00:46:23,680
Speaker 3: accepting imperfections is one of the keys to removing perfectionism.

1001
00:46:24,040 --> 00:46:26,279
Speaker 3: The second pillar of shame is all around scarcity, that

1002
00:46:26,360 --> 00:46:28,359
Speaker 3: constant feeling that I'm not good enough or pretty, enarf

1003
00:46:28,440 --> 00:46:31,839
Speaker 3: or successful enough compared to someone else. So the goal

1004
00:46:31,880 --> 00:46:36,040
Speaker 3: there is to identify, Okay, what's my shame story here? Right,

1005
00:46:36,480 --> 00:46:40,000
Speaker 3: that's identify what stage right, because it often shows up

1006
00:46:40,120 --> 00:46:42,280
Speaker 3: very young, right, and we think we have to please

1007
00:46:42,320 --> 00:46:44,960
Speaker 3: our parents, will prove ourselves in some way, shape or form.

1008
00:46:45,400 --> 00:46:46,960
Speaker 3: That's the first time we tell ourself a story that

1009
00:46:46,960 --> 00:46:49,680
Speaker 3: we're we're not loved unconditionally. It's kind of conditional one

1010
00:46:49,719 --> 00:46:52,240
Speaker 3: having to do something, I achieve something well. That creates

1011
00:46:52,239 --> 00:46:54,600
Speaker 3: that imposter syndrome that just continues on in our twenties

1012
00:46:54,640 --> 00:46:57,799
Speaker 3: and thirties, where just in different costumes when again we

1013
00:46:57,960 --> 00:47:00,719
Speaker 3: tell ourselves a story that I'm not good enough or

1014
00:47:00,719 --> 00:47:03,560
Speaker 3: successful enough, and again it kind of becomes the credits

1015
00:47:03,600 --> 00:47:05,759
Speaker 3: that emotional pressure and that outcome pressure. And I think

1016
00:47:05,800 --> 00:47:08,399
Speaker 3: that's one of the biggest issues from a mental health

1017
00:47:08,400 --> 00:47:11,440
Speaker 3: point of view today. Is that pressure of living up

1018
00:47:11,440 --> 00:47:13,839
Speaker 3: to these expectations. That's was never our role in life

1019
00:47:13,840 --> 00:47:16,600
Speaker 3: to do. So I think if we can reframe what

1020
00:47:16,760 --> 00:47:21,200
Speaker 3: is our become more self determined, not socially determined, and

1021
00:47:21,320 --> 00:47:23,640
Speaker 3: reframe the beliefs and the stories that are holding us

1022
00:47:23,680 --> 00:47:25,439
Speaker 3: back is part of everyone's journey.

1023
00:47:25,480 --> 00:47:27,680
Speaker 2: I guess I'm not gonna I wouldn't watch you to

1024
00:47:28,000 --> 00:47:31,440
Speaker 2: and I'm not going to name names, but when I say,

1025
00:47:32,680 --> 00:47:35,880
Speaker 2: you know, just picture an elite athlete that's done something

1026
00:47:35,960 --> 00:47:38,920
Speaker 2: dumb in the public eye and then they have to

1027
00:47:38,960 --> 00:47:42,560
Speaker 2: return to the field or the game and play, and

1028
00:47:42,800 --> 00:47:45,719
Speaker 2: you know, people know, you know, whatever e lead athlete all.

1029
00:47:45,719 --> 00:47:47,919
Speaker 2: It doesn't matter what code, what's sport. Anywhere in the world,

1030
00:47:47,920 --> 00:47:50,360
Speaker 2: people cheat on their partners, people do dumb stuff. People

1031
00:47:50,840 --> 00:47:53,719
Speaker 2: you know, get caught, you know, doing a dumb thing,

1032
00:47:53,800 --> 00:47:57,120
Speaker 2: gambling or whatever, like it's going to happen because they're

1033
00:47:57,160 --> 00:47:58,960
Speaker 2: humans and they do human stuff. They're high proof for

1034
00:47:59,000 --> 00:48:00,160
Speaker 2: people under a lot of a lot of a lot

1035
00:48:00,200 --> 00:48:03,160
Speaker 2: of pressure. So we might not be that, but we

1036
00:48:03,239 --> 00:48:06,200
Speaker 2: might have a feeling inside us like I've I've fucked

1037
00:48:06,239 --> 00:48:06,920
Speaker 2: up at work or.

1038
00:48:07,080 --> 00:48:09,319
Speaker 1: You know, I really messed up with my you know,

1039
00:48:09,520 --> 00:48:09,879
Speaker 1: my son.

1040
00:48:09,960 --> 00:48:11,640
Speaker 2: I screamed with my son in front of everyone at

1041
00:48:11,640 --> 00:48:13,840
Speaker 2: the school yard the other day. We might have that

1042
00:48:13,960 --> 00:48:16,480
Speaker 2: shame inside us. What's the way that we can process that?

1043
00:48:16,520 --> 00:48:18,560
Speaker 2: When I'm not saying like we're about to go for

1044
00:48:18,680 --> 00:48:21,120
Speaker 2: match point the same as any other point. Andre, come on,

1045
00:48:21,160 --> 00:48:24,880
Speaker 2: I listen, not when we're known, But how can we

1046
00:48:24,920 --> 00:48:27,040
Speaker 2: process that shame that we might have inside us to

1047
00:48:27,080 --> 00:48:28,840
Speaker 2: help us be free of it and not make choices

1048
00:48:28,880 --> 00:48:31,240
Speaker 2: based on it? Because when we make choices based on shame,

1049
00:48:31,400 --> 00:48:33,279
Speaker 2: we tend to it's like scratching X.

1050
00:48:33,480 --> 00:48:35,759
Speaker 1: It just gets worse. Yeah, So how can we can

1051
00:48:35,800 --> 00:48:36,799
Speaker 1: we maybe process that?

1052
00:48:36,960 --> 00:48:39,719
Speaker 3: Yeah, first of all, separate guilt from shame. Guilt as

1053
00:48:39,719 --> 00:48:41,960
Speaker 3: they did something wrong, that's okay. You can work with that,

1054
00:48:42,000 --> 00:48:44,279
Speaker 3: you can apologize, you can explain, you can learn from it.

1055
00:48:44,760 --> 00:48:48,839
Speaker 3: But shame is I am wrong, That's far more fundamental.

1056
00:48:49,160 --> 00:48:52,080
Speaker 3: So I identify the difference between the two. And if

1057
00:48:52,080 --> 00:48:54,920
Speaker 3: it's if you've done something wrong, own it, I admit it,

1058
00:48:55,040 --> 00:48:58,400
Speaker 3: be vulnerable, don't be in denial or blame or you know,

1059
00:48:58,440 --> 00:49:00,239
Speaker 3: try and find a hiding place for it, because you know,

1060
00:49:00,280 --> 00:49:02,680
Speaker 3: you can't bullshit a bullshitter. Right, We're pretty onto it

1061
00:49:02,680 --> 00:49:04,839
Speaker 3: as a human race, we know when someone's full of shit.

1062
00:49:04,960 --> 00:49:09,320
Speaker 3: So yeah, if someone makes a mistake, right identifying that's imperfection.

1063
00:49:09,400 --> 00:49:12,080
Speaker 3: That also connect humans the most right, you mentioned Steve

1064
00:49:12,080 --> 00:49:15,319
Speaker 3: Smith right when you had that press conference. Right, made

1065
00:49:15,360 --> 00:49:17,239
Speaker 3: a mistake, I owned it, learned from it, and we

1066
00:49:17,280 --> 00:49:20,960
Speaker 3: saw the human that was Steve. And then Steve learns

1067
00:49:20,960 --> 00:49:22,200
Speaker 3: it's not what happens to you in life, it's how

1068
00:49:22,239 --> 00:49:24,319
Speaker 3: you respond. And your greatest growth always comes from your

1069
00:49:24,400 --> 00:49:29,440
Speaker 3: darkest times, always because it underlocks three things. Humility grounds

1070
00:49:29,480 --> 00:49:30,920
Speaker 3: are you in the brutal facts of your reality?

1071
00:49:31,040 --> 00:49:31,160
Speaker 2: Right?

1072
00:49:31,239 --> 00:49:33,000
Speaker 3: Life sucks? These are the cards I've been out and

1073
00:49:33,000 --> 00:49:35,359
Speaker 3: this is my lot in life. Then it unlocks your

1074
00:49:35,400 --> 00:49:39,560
Speaker 3: core values, right because these verbs that hold you accountable

1075
00:49:39,600 --> 00:49:42,520
Speaker 3: to yourself when you're at your best, but you draw

1076
00:49:42,560 --> 00:49:44,480
Speaker 3: down on them when you're at your worst because you

1077
00:49:44,480 --> 00:49:46,400
Speaker 3: have to get through some energy source to get you

1078
00:49:46,440 --> 00:49:50,240
Speaker 3: through this dark period. The third one is curiosity, right, Okay,

1079
00:49:50,400 --> 00:49:51,160
Speaker 3: where to from here?

1080
00:49:51,760 --> 00:49:51,880
Speaker 2: Right?

1081
00:49:51,960 --> 00:49:52,680
Speaker 3: How do I get through?

1082
00:49:52,760 --> 00:49:52,840
Speaker 2: Is?

1083
00:49:52,840 --> 00:49:58,160
Speaker 3: Who can help me? And curiosity turns adversity into possibility, right,

1084
00:49:58,360 --> 00:50:01,320
Speaker 3: and it replaces the quartersole that your hormone and replaces

1085
00:50:01,320 --> 00:50:04,400
Speaker 3: it with dopamine. Like this pattern recognition drug that are

1086
00:50:04,520 --> 00:50:06,279
Speaker 3: hard drug. So when you're going through a whole time,

1087
00:50:06,280 --> 00:50:09,279
Speaker 3: and that's where vulnerability is a superpower, right, And you

1088
00:50:09,320 --> 00:50:11,400
Speaker 3: mentioned Trent Coonchin right of the outset. When Trent got

1089
00:50:11,440 --> 00:50:13,520
Speaker 3: up in front of the whole playing group. And by

1090
00:50:13,560 --> 00:50:15,600
Speaker 3: the way, Richmond in twenty sixteen were a basket case.

1091
00:50:15,600 --> 00:50:17,000
Speaker 3: They lost their last game of the year by one

1092
00:50:17,080 --> 00:50:19,040
Speaker 3: hundred and seventeen points to the Swans, and they were

1093
00:50:19,040 --> 00:50:21,959
Speaker 3: supposed to make the finals. I think they finished fifteenth.

1094
00:50:22,120 --> 00:50:24,480
Speaker 3: He went on this journey to talk about all his

1095
00:50:24,600 --> 00:50:27,600
Speaker 3: imperfections and to be vulnerable and to make sense of

1096
00:50:27,600 --> 00:50:29,840
Speaker 3: his story. And when he got up in front of

1097
00:50:29,880 --> 00:50:32,680
Speaker 3: the whole playing group, I think it was December the tenth,

1098
00:50:32,760 --> 00:50:35,279
Speaker 3: twenty sixteen, in front of all these peers, all these

1099
00:50:35,280 --> 00:50:36,960
Speaker 3: alpha males, got up there on stage and he said,

1100
00:50:37,040 --> 00:50:41,080
Speaker 3: I'm so sorry. For the last five years, I thought

1101
00:50:41,080 --> 00:50:44,080
Speaker 3: I had to be the perfect captain and the perfect

1102
00:50:44,080 --> 00:50:46,200
Speaker 3: play and the perfect strategy and the perfect pre match

1103
00:50:46,239 --> 00:50:49,000
Speaker 3: address and the perfect heado. And I'm hit to day.

1104
00:50:49,040 --> 00:50:51,160
Speaker 3: To be honest with you, maybe for the first time ever,

1105
00:50:51,440 --> 00:50:54,560
Speaker 3: I'm not like I'm imperfect, and I'm full of struggle

1106
00:50:54,600 --> 00:50:56,759
Speaker 3: and I'm shitting myself, and I don't know if I

1107
00:50:56,800 --> 00:50:58,840
Speaker 3: even want to keep playing footy anymore, let alone captain

1108
00:50:58,880 --> 00:51:00,480
Speaker 3: you guys. So I just want to be honest with you.

1109
00:51:00,520 --> 00:51:03,600
Speaker 3: I'm imperfect, but I've also learned something else about myself.

1110
00:51:03,640 --> 00:51:06,320
Speaker 3: I've also learned that I'm worthy of your love, belonging

1111
00:51:06,320 --> 00:51:09,399
Speaker 3: in connection and taking you on a journey. Eight months later,

1112
00:51:09,400 --> 00:51:12,840
Speaker 3: they won the Unwinnable Premiership and he went from unofficially

1113
00:51:12,920 --> 00:51:16,000
Speaker 3: voted the worst captain in the AFL to officially voted

1114
00:51:16,000 --> 00:51:18,520
Speaker 3: by his peers. And the reason why that was so

1115
00:51:18,560 --> 00:51:21,040
Speaker 3: powerful is because in that moment when he took off

1116
00:51:21,040 --> 00:51:23,840
Speaker 3: his mask and armor and revealed the story behind the story,

1117
00:51:24,200 --> 00:51:26,680
Speaker 3: he made a connection on a human level, not on

1118
00:51:26,719 --> 00:51:30,040
Speaker 3: a transactional level. So his imperfections made a connection on

1119
00:51:30,080 --> 00:51:32,440
Speaker 3: a human level. And once we realize it's imperfections that

1120
00:51:32,520 --> 00:51:35,839
Speaker 3: connect humans, it's not all the grandiose achievements, because we're

1121
00:51:35,880 --> 00:51:37,920
Speaker 3: all imperfect and we want to know that that's okay.

1122
00:51:37,960 --> 00:51:39,000
Speaker 3: And there's a lesson in there.

1123
00:51:38,840 --> 00:51:41,120
Speaker 1: For So what do we get. This guy's the captain

1124
00:51:41,120 --> 00:51:42,000
Speaker 1: of a football team.

1125
00:51:42,440 --> 00:51:45,520
Speaker 2: He's been selected this because he's been identified throughout his

1126
00:51:45,640 --> 00:51:48,520
Speaker 2: entire Crewero's probably selected for a junior development when he

1127
00:51:48,600 --> 00:51:51,680
Speaker 2: was ten, right, so his whole career, of these guys,

1128
00:51:51,680 --> 00:51:53,440
Speaker 2: they end up in the AFL or the NRL or

1129
00:51:53,520 --> 00:51:56,080
Speaker 2: NFL or whatever league. They've always been the best player

1130
00:51:56,120 --> 00:51:58,360
Speaker 2: they've ever known. They've never not known what it's like

1131
00:51:58,400 --> 00:51:59,799
Speaker 2: to be better than everybody else. And then they get

1132
00:51:59,800 --> 00:52:02,200
Speaker 2: in the with all the other guys like that, and

1133
00:52:02,239 --> 00:52:03,600
Speaker 2: then they're just a little bit better.

1134
00:52:03,360 --> 00:52:07,640
Speaker 1: And now I'm the captain. We expect our leaders to

1135
00:52:07,800 --> 00:52:09,120
Speaker 1: be flawless.

1136
00:52:09,880 --> 00:52:12,640
Speaker 2: What happens like this doesn't seem like a quality that

1137
00:52:12,680 --> 00:52:16,080
Speaker 2: people would expect the leader to show, to show vulnerabily,

1138
00:52:16,239 --> 00:52:20,160
Speaker 2: to show I'm imperfect. But what happens when leaders do

1139
00:52:20,160 --> 00:52:20,400
Speaker 2: do that?

1140
00:52:20,680 --> 00:52:23,279
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, it's well, it's incredible. I talk about this

1141
00:52:23,480 --> 00:52:26,479
Speaker 3: in one of the chapters, the Hero's Journey from Ida.

1142
00:52:26,560 --> 00:52:30,040
Speaker 3: We the number one mistake and by the way, most

1143
00:52:30,120 --> 00:52:33,040
Speaker 3: leaders don't get leadership training, and that flaws me. But

1144
00:52:33,080 --> 00:52:36,759
Speaker 3: the number one mistake leaders make is thinking it's about them.

1145
00:52:37,000 --> 00:52:39,279
Speaker 3: The mistake the Trent and Dami had made it some

1146
00:52:39,400 --> 00:52:42,200
Speaker 3: degree that was about them and they had to have

1147
00:52:42,239 --> 00:52:44,440
Speaker 3: the answer, and everyone's looking to them for the answer.

1148
00:52:45,040 --> 00:52:47,759
Speaker 3: But when you realize when you're in a transactional role.

1149
00:52:47,760 --> 00:52:50,839
Speaker 3: If you're a football player, you're a teacher, you're a marketer. Yeah,

1150
00:52:50,840 --> 00:52:53,080
Speaker 3: it's about you. Right, you worked hard at UNI, you

1151
00:52:53,320 --> 00:52:55,160
Speaker 3: get a job, you get paid more, you get promoted.

1152
00:52:55,719 --> 00:52:58,000
Speaker 3: But when you become a leader, there must be this

1153
00:52:58,120 --> 00:53:01,080
Speaker 3: metaphorical stake in the ground that from this moment on,

1154
00:53:01,760 --> 00:53:04,240
Speaker 3: it's got nothing to do with me, it's got everything

1155
00:53:04,239 --> 00:53:06,799
Speaker 3: to do with them. To help them, to serve them,

1156
00:53:06,840 --> 00:53:09,280
Speaker 3: to create an environment to help them realize their potential.

1157
00:53:09,840 --> 00:53:11,120
Speaker 3: I tell this story in the book. They were a

1158
00:53:11,239 --> 00:53:15,000
Speaker 3: very famous English footballer at Wimbledon a couple of years ago.

1159
00:53:15,000 --> 00:53:16,480
Speaker 3: Asked if I would catch up with him. He'd just

1160
00:53:16,520 --> 00:53:19,600
Speaker 3: been sacked for the second time as a EPL coach

1161
00:53:20,040 --> 00:53:21,840
Speaker 3: and this was one of the greatest midfielders in the

1162
00:53:21,880 --> 00:53:25,240
Speaker 3: history of English football. And so going to his house

1163
00:53:25,320 --> 00:53:26,920
Speaker 3: and I sit down. I'm just trying to make conversation

1164
00:53:27,000 --> 00:53:28,480
Speaker 3: with him, and I said, look, why were you so

1165
00:53:28,520 --> 00:53:31,000
Speaker 3: successful like you know, as a player, why were you

1166
00:53:31,040 --> 00:53:32,920
Speaker 3: so good like you know? What's your secret source? Kind

1167
00:53:32,960 --> 00:53:35,560
Speaker 3: of thing? And he said, I trained harder than anyone else.

1168
00:53:36,000 --> 00:53:37,759
Speaker 3: When everyone had gone home, I'll still kicking goals. I

1169
00:53:37,800 --> 00:53:40,040
Speaker 3: was still training. And that's why I trained harder heart

1170
00:53:40,080 --> 00:53:42,840
Speaker 3: and that's why I so successful. OK. Great answer. But

1171
00:53:43,400 --> 00:53:45,279
Speaker 3: now you're a coach and you've just been sacked for

1172
00:53:45,280 --> 00:53:47,360
Speaker 3: the second time. And I said, so, what kind of

1173
00:53:47,440 --> 00:53:50,359
Speaker 3: leadership training have you had right since you became coach?

1174
00:53:50,560 --> 00:53:52,239
Speaker 3: And you just stared at me and you had to

1175
00:53:52,280 --> 00:53:53,919
Speaker 3: kind of this. I thought, shit is going to punch

1176
00:53:53,960 --> 00:53:55,680
Speaker 3: me here. And then he put his hand in his head.

1177
00:53:56,239 --> 00:53:58,759
Speaker 3: He looked up, he tearsed in his eyes. That was

1178
00:53:59,200 --> 00:54:01,480
Speaker 3: that was the Aham kind of were the like god.

1179
00:54:01,520 --> 00:54:03,920
Speaker 3: And he had this a Harma goes I've done zero

1180
00:54:04,680 --> 00:54:07,839
Speaker 3: leadership training. And he hadn't moved from I to Wei

1181
00:54:08,440 --> 00:54:10,480
Speaker 3: on that hero's journey. He thought it was about him.

1182
00:54:10,880 --> 00:54:12,879
Speaker 3: He hadn't realized that it's got nothing to do with him.

1183
00:54:14,040 --> 00:54:16,239
Speaker 3: I define leadership is to create an environment to help

1184
00:54:16,280 --> 00:54:19,840
Speaker 3: others realize their potential. It's the same definition for purpose,

1185
00:54:20,239 --> 00:54:24,040
Speaker 3: to create an environment to help others realize their potential. Right,

1186
00:54:24,080 --> 00:54:26,640
Speaker 3: the key word is others. It's always about them to

1187
00:54:26,680 --> 00:54:30,080
Speaker 3: be interested, not interesting. And unfortunately, if we're not taught

1188
00:54:30,120 --> 00:54:33,440
Speaker 3: that we applied the same principles to what's made as

1189
00:54:33,440 --> 00:54:35,080
Speaker 3: successful in our technical.

1190
00:54:35,000 --> 00:54:37,800
Speaker 2: To be honest, I think we're born with it.

1191
00:54:37,800 --> 00:54:38,319
Speaker 1: It was.

1192
00:54:40,120 --> 00:54:43,279
Speaker 2: You write something. You write very similar survival of the Kindness. U.

1193
00:54:43,560 --> 00:54:46,640
Speaker 2: Bregman wrote a brilliant book called Humankind. He wrote a

1194
00:54:46,719 --> 00:54:50,560
Speaker 2: survival of the friendliest in that before I don't know

1195
00:54:50,600 --> 00:54:53,640
Speaker 2: it was your old job, but before marketing, before consumer culture,

1196
00:54:53,960 --> 00:54:58,359
Speaker 2: our purpose was to maintain the immediate community we were

1197
00:54:58,400 --> 00:55:00,600
Speaker 2: in because with that community we could survive. If we

1198
00:55:00,640 --> 00:55:02,839
Speaker 2: were by ourselves, we were going to die. And it's

1199
00:55:02,960 --> 00:55:05,600
Speaker 2: wired into us that we actually feel a lot better

1200
00:55:05,840 --> 00:55:08,359
Speaker 2: when we help other people. That is truly the only

1201
00:55:08,400 --> 00:55:10,480
Speaker 2: sustainable sorce of happiness is to help another person and

1202
00:55:10,520 --> 00:55:14,360
Speaker 2: be of service to another person. Yet we've been conditioned

1203
00:55:14,400 --> 00:55:15,839
Speaker 2: to believe that, I know, if you want to feel

1204
00:55:15,840 --> 00:55:17,320
Speaker 2: better than you now, you should buy something.

1205
00:55:17,600 --> 00:55:22,200
Speaker 1: You know, your paradikes, you know. But that's not quite it.

1206
00:55:22,360 --> 00:55:26,080
Speaker 2: And what happens to us when we because as a kid,

1207
00:55:26,280 --> 00:55:28,560
Speaker 2: you are self centered. Of course you are, because you

1208
00:55:28,600 --> 00:55:30,840
Speaker 2: are doing everything again, all the tantrums, all that stuff

1209
00:55:30,880 --> 00:55:33,360
Speaker 2: is to get calories, is to get safety, is to

1210
00:55:33,360 --> 00:55:36,879
Speaker 2: get protection so you will survive. That is built into us. Yeah,

1211
00:55:37,120 --> 00:55:39,480
Speaker 2: But then there's these ritual rights of passage which then

1212
00:55:39,560 --> 00:55:42,600
Speaker 2: help a young man or woman understand it's not just

1213
00:55:42,640 --> 00:55:43,400
Speaker 2: about you.

1214
00:55:43,400 --> 00:55:45,560
Speaker 1: You now have a role here and your role is

1215
00:55:45,600 --> 00:55:46,240
Speaker 1: for more.

1216
00:55:46,040 --> 00:55:46,640
Speaker 3: Than just you.

1217
00:55:47,400 --> 00:55:50,080
Speaker 2: But that doesn't happen so much lately, so we become

1218
00:55:50,080 --> 00:55:52,320
Speaker 2: these giant man babies. I was thirty six when I

1219
00:55:52,360 --> 00:55:54,319
Speaker 2: found out, Oh fuck, it's not just about man like.

1220
00:55:54,600 --> 00:55:56,239
Speaker 2: I feel better when I do something for someone else,

1221
00:55:56,320 --> 00:55:57,279
Speaker 2: even someone who's never going.

1222
00:55:57,239 --> 00:55:58,080
Speaker 1: To give anything back to me.

1223
00:55:58,320 --> 00:55:58,720
Speaker 3: Wow.

1224
00:55:59,520 --> 00:56:03,880
Speaker 2: Never boy, what would you say to someone about what

1225
00:56:03,960 --> 00:56:06,000
Speaker 2: can happen and how they might figure that out? How

1226
00:56:06,040 --> 00:56:10,080
Speaker 2: to change their focus from self centered not You know,

1227
00:56:10,280 --> 00:56:11,560
Speaker 2: you may have never learned how to do it, and

1228
00:56:11,719 --> 00:56:14,239
Speaker 2: you know it comes with bad connotations. What happens when

1229
00:56:14,280 --> 00:56:17,000
Speaker 2: we change it from a self centered focus to other

1230
00:56:17,040 --> 00:56:17,760
Speaker 2: center focus?

1231
00:56:18,000 --> 00:56:18,320
Speaker 1: Yeah?

1232
00:56:18,400 --> 00:56:22,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think you've just perfectly described Osha the hero's journey,

1233
00:56:22,280 --> 00:56:24,560
Speaker 3: you know, the Joseph Campbell created in the nineteen sixties,

1234
00:56:24,600 --> 00:56:27,799
Speaker 3: which is that three chapters of our life, And you're

1235
00:56:27,840 --> 00:56:30,239
Speaker 3: right chapter one and it is all about me. You know,

1236
00:56:31,000 --> 00:56:32,520
Speaker 3: you win a race, you get a blue ribbon. You

1237
00:56:32,520 --> 00:56:34,000
Speaker 3: work out of your grades, you get a gold star.

1238
00:56:34,160 --> 00:56:36,160
Speaker 1: I've got a blue ribbon just for showing up, mate, exactly.

1239
00:56:37,480 --> 00:56:40,719
Speaker 3: Yeah, it does happen a whole nother conversation. Yeah, but

1240
00:56:40,719 --> 00:56:42,560
Speaker 3: it's an important chapter to your point, because you've got

1241
00:56:42,600 --> 00:56:44,080
Speaker 3: to work out what you're good at and what you're

1242
00:56:44,080 --> 00:56:46,399
Speaker 3: passionate about and so forth. So it's a really important chapter,

1243
00:56:46,560 --> 00:56:49,680
Speaker 3: but it's still all about you. You're going out to

1244
00:56:49,719 --> 00:56:52,400
Speaker 3: the world. It's in chapter two of the Hero's Journey

1245
00:56:52,480 --> 00:56:56,399
Speaker 3: where life happens, like shit happens, and you start having

1246
00:56:56,440 --> 00:56:59,200
Speaker 3: these crucible moments. And it might be a relationship, a divorce,

1247
00:56:59,239 --> 00:57:00,879
Speaker 3: it might be a pandem, it might be a loss

1248
00:57:00,880 --> 00:57:03,439
Speaker 3: of job, and it can also be a success, right,

1249
00:57:03,440 --> 00:57:06,479
Speaker 3: Crysmal moments can be both ways. But these crystamal moments

1250
00:57:06,520 --> 00:57:08,759
Speaker 3: are laced with meaning, and we need to make sense

1251
00:57:08,760 --> 00:57:11,000
Speaker 3: of them because they're either going to hold us back

1252
00:57:11,280 --> 00:57:13,840
Speaker 3: in our lives in denial or a sense of almost

1253
00:57:13,880 --> 00:57:16,880
Speaker 3: like a form of post traumatic stress, blaming others' excuses

1254
00:57:16,920 --> 00:57:19,480
Speaker 3: and so forth, or they can project you forward with

1255
00:57:19,520 --> 00:57:21,960
Speaker 3: this kind of post traumatic growth. But we need to

1256
00:57:21,960 --> 00:57:25,120
Speaker 3: make sense of them and learn from these criscimal moments,

1257
00:57:25,120 --> 00:57:28,160
Speaker 3: because that's when a life will project us into chapter three,

1258
00:57:28,720 --> 00:57:31,320
Speaker 3: we realize one of life's great tourism, that's Life's not

1259
00:57:31,440 --> 00:57:34,000
Speaker 3: about me, It's about the impact I can have on

1260
00:57:34,040 --> 00:57:36,760
Speaker 3: someone else's life, and once you realize that, that's when

1261
00:57:36,760 --> 00:57:39,480
Speaker 3: you naturally unlock a sense of purpose and meaning and

1262
00:57:39,520 --> 00:57:44,200
Speaker 3: contribution and fulfillment beyond yourself because it's literally not about you, right.

1263
00:57:44,320 --> 00:57:46,640
Speaker 3: So yeah, if you're not lucky enough to have an

1264
00:57:46,720 --> 00:57:49,400
Speaker 3: environment that kind of teaches that you mentioned, you know,

1265
00:57:49,840 --> 00:57:53,080
Speaker 3: survival of the kindness and the friendliness, then sometimes you

1266
00:57:53,160 --> 00:57:55,480
Speaker 3: need to learn the lessons that were hardwired for connection.

1267
00:57:56,120 --> 00:57:58,640
Speaker 3: And part of connection, part of motivation is having like

1268
00:57:58,680 --> 00:58:01,720
Speaker 3: a purpose mindset in a corporate sense, but for your

1269
00:58:01,720 --> 00:58:04,640
Speaker 3: personal life as well. So the three motivations that I

1270
00:58:04,680 --> 00:58:07,320
Speaker 3: work on with people, the first one is play because

1271
00:58:07,320 --> 00:58:11,800
Speaker 3: as humans where naturally we're hardwirfe for play, like it's

1272
00:58:11,800 --> 00:58:15,520
Speaker 3: intrinsic and Homo sapiens. But today we've become play deprived,

1273
00:58:15,720 --> 00:58:18,560
Speaker 3: which is a bit like being sleep deprived. And when

1274
00:58:18,560 --> 00:58:22,480
Speaker 3: we're play deprived, our mood darkens. So and the opposite

1275
00:58:22,480 --> 00:58:24,480
Speaker 3: of play isn't work, it's fear. So you're either in

1276
00:58:24,480 --> 00:58:26,640
Speaker 3: the play state or the fear state. So that's really

1277
00:58:26,680 --> 00:58:28,960
Speaker 3: really important. Anything you do any moment of the day,

1278
00:58:29,000 --> 00:58:31,400
Speaker 3: it's a form of play. It plays not table ten.

1279
00:58:31,440 --> 00:58:34,560
Speaker 3: It's the way it plays just curiosity or creativity or experimentation,

1280
00:58:34,680 --> 00:58:36,760
Speaker 3: or just being in the moment and problem solving like

1281
00:58:36,760 --> 00:58:39,640
Speaker 3: we're playing right now in terms of our conversation. The

1282
00:58:39,680 --> 00:58:42,240
Speaker 3: second one is purpose, though the play that I do

1283
00:58:42,320 --> 00:58:44,320
Speaker 3: has a purpose, right, Whatever I do with my life,

1284
00:58:44,320 --> 00:58:46,720
Speaker 3: it has a reason. That reason really matters, So it's

1285
00:58:46,720 --> 00:58:48,400
Speaker 3: really important. You don't need to save the world, by

1286
00:58:48,400 --> 00:58:51,160
Speaker 3: the way, right, You can just have a one person's

1287
00:58:51,200 --> 00:58:53,080
Speaker 3: world and have an impact on them or an animal

1288
00:58:53,400 --> 00:58:56,200
Speaker 3: so forth, on nature. But being a sense of play

1289
00:58:56,240 --> 00:58:58,000
Speaker 3: and a sense of purpose will be different for all

1290
00:58:58,040 --> 00:59:00,760
Speaker 3: of us. And then the third one is potential, as

1291
00:59:00,800 --> 00:59:03,160
Speaker 3: long as we're learning and growing and getting outside of

1292
00:59:03,200 --> 00:59:06,080
Speaker 3: our comfort zone, but also believing in our potential and

1293
00:59:06,120 --> 00:59:08,960
Speaker 3: believing what's possible. I think that's if we've got those

1294
00:59:09,000 --> 00:59:11,080
Speaker 3: three motivations in our life, and you can teach that

1295
00:59:11,120 --> 00:59:13,440
Speaker 3: at a pretty young age, how can I be the

1296
00:59:13,440 --> 00:59:16,320
Speaker 3: best part of someone else's day today? You can teach

1297
00:59:16,320 --> 00:59:18,439
Speaker 3: an eight year old that, right, and then they start

1298
00:59:18,440 --> 00:59:21,280
Speaker 3: to unlock The most amazing thing happens when you unlock

1299
00:59:21,280 --> 00:59:23,760
Speaker 3: a sense of purpose mindset, You realize that life's not

1300
00:59:23,800 --> 00:59:27,560
Speaker 3: about you. You lose ego and you lose fear because

1301
00:59:27,640 --> 00:59:31,280
Speaker 3: it's literally not about you anymore, right, And it's pretty powerful.

1302
00:59:31,280 --> 00:59:33,960
Speaker 3: When I remember when I was writing this section in

1303
00:59:34,000 --> 00:59:36,040
Speaker 3: the book, I was trying to find a story and

1304
00:59:36,040 --> 00:59:38,760
Speaker 3: an anecdote. And obviously there's a lot of eled athletes

1305
00:59:38,760 --> 00:59:40,840
Speaker 3: in the book, but there's also a lot of anecdotes

1306
00:59:40,880 --> 00:59:44,360
Speaker 3: from other places. And my son and I were visiting

1307
00:59:44,400 --> 00:59:47,080
Speaker 3: my mum a few years ago, and there's this milk

1308
00:59:47,080 --> 00:59:49,880
Speaker 3: bar around the corner owned by a Cambodian lady, and

1309
00:59:50,320 --> 00:59:52,160
Speaker 3: we're sitting there having her coffee and some lunch, and

1310
00:59:52,160 --> 00:59:53,760
Speaker 3: she came over and she started talking to us, and

1311
00:59:53,800 --> 00:59:57,080
Speaker 3: she started telling stories of how she escaped Cambodia and

1312
00:59:57,080 --> 00:59:59,520
Speaker 3: the Kamar Rouge, and she lost all her family except

1313
00:59:59,520 --> 01:00:02,120
Speaker 3: for her son. She still doesn't know where they're still alive.

1314
01:00:02,680 --> 01:00:05,200
Speaker 3: And my son was hanging on to every word she

1315
01:00:05,320 --> 01:00:07,720
Speaker 3: was saying. We only went for about fifteen minutes. It

1316
01:00:07,760 --> 01:00:09,840
Speaker 3: was one of the most profound fifteen minutes we both had.

1317
01:00:10,200 --> 01:00:13,320
Speaker 3: The next day, he's playing football and before the game,

1318
01:00:13,400 --> 01:00:17,240
Speaker 3: the coach asked the kids to dedicate their game to

1319
01:00:17,400 --> 01:00:20,400
Speaker 3: someone else who maybe have helped them along the way,

1320
01:00:20,920 --> 01:00:22,919
Speaker 3: or it's just helped their perspective in some way, shape

1321
01:00:23,000 --> 01:00:25,640
Speaker 3: or form. Well, anyway, my son ned played the game

1322
01:00:25,680 --> 01:00:28,840
Speaker 3: of his life like best on ground, incredible. Right on

1323
01:00:28,880 --> 01:00:32,160
Speaker 3: the way home, I said to him, like, who'd you

1324
01:00:32,200 --> 01:00:35,960
Speaker 3: dedicate your game to? Hoping it was me? And he

1325
01:00:36,040 --> 01:00:40,560
Speaker 3: said that lady we met yesterday at the milkbar. I

1326
01:00:40,640 --> 01:00:44,040
Speaker 3: dedicated my game to her. And I was just like, whaa.

1327
01:00:44,800 --> 01:00:49,280
Speaker 3: We don't understand the power of dedication. I had two

1328
01:00:49,280 --> 01:00:51,760
Speaker 3: friends who died when I was pretty young, similar to

1329
01:00:51,800 --> 01:00:53,840
Speaker 3: my dad. I dedicate part of my life to them.

1330
01:00:54,240 --> 01:00:56,280
Speaker 3: Your power of dedication, you don't even have to know

1331
01:00:56,360 --> 01:00:59,720
Speaker 3: the person, right, you know, what would Robin Williams say

1332
01:00:59,720 --> 01:01:01,800
Speaker 3: in this particularly or what would Ted Lesso say in

1333
01:01:01,840 --> 01:01:04,920
Speaker 3: this situation? Right? So, yeah, we can find mentors and

1334
01:01:04,960 --> 01:01:07,680
Speaker 3: dedicate part of our lives to someone who's either helped

1335
01:01:07,720 --> 01:01:11,800
Speaker 3: shape us, either in very personal sense or an anecdotal sense,

1336
01:01:11,880 --> 01:01:12,560
Speaker 3: is pretty powerful.

1337
01:01:12,720 --> 01:01:16,040
Speaker 2: I guess another version of that would be I mean,

1338
01:01:16,080 --> 01:01:19,240
Speaker 2: if all goes well, in about six weeks now, I'll

1339
01:01:19,280 --> 01:01:23,120
Speaker 2: be sixteen years sober. And part of that process is

1340
01:01:23,760 --> 01:01:26,440
Speaker 2: making amends to people, to try to clean up the

1341
01:01:26,520 --> 01:01:29,560
Speaker 2: message that you've made unless it's going to cause further harm.

1342
01:01:29,760 --> 01:01:31,680
Speaker 2: And so I asked my guy who guys me. He's

1343
01:01:31,760 --> 01:01:35,040
Speaker 2: much like you, but I don't pay him. So what

1344
01:01:35,040 --> 01:01:39,520
Speaker 2: do I do with those people? Because are you live

1345
01:01:39,600 --> 01:01:42,120
Speaker 2: the rest of your life dedicated to not being the

1346
01:01:42,160 --> 01:01:42,919
Speaker 2: guy that did that?

1347
01:01:44,480 --> 01:01:47,920
Speaker 1: And another one line he would says, well, I've got

1348
01:01:47,920 --> 01:01:48,960
Speaker 1: good news. The good news is you.

1349
01:01:48,880 --> 01:01:50,040
Speaker 2: Get to live the rest of your life not being

1350
01:01:50,080 --> 01:01:52,880
Speaker 2: that guy anymore and dedicating a life to not doing

1351
01:01:52,880 --> 01:01:55,360
Speaker 2: that and doing it because of you know, in amends

1352
01:01:55,360 --> 01:01:59,800
Speaker 2: too what that mistake, that choice. You now get to

1353
01:01:59,800 --> 01:02:01,800
Speaker 2: live your life in the opposite direction. It really helps,

1354
01:02:01,920 --> 01:02:03,320
Speaker 2: It really really really helps.

1355
01:02:03,360 --> 01:02:06,560
Speaker 3: And what you just described is another form of the

1356
01:02:06,600 --> 01:02:10,440
Speaker 3: serenity prayer, right, And I think about you know, I

1357
01:02:10,520 --> 01:02:13,160
Speaker 3: feel like that that prayer has been following me my

1358
01:02:13,200 --> 01:02:15,800
Speaker 3: whole life. Because if you're talking about, you know, the

1359
01:02:15,800 --> 01:02:17,720
Speaker 3: spin to accept the things you can't change, the courage

1360
01:02:17,800 --> 01:02:19,600
Speaker 3: to change the things you can, and just that wisdom

1361
01:02:19,600 --> 01:02:22,280
Speaker 3: to know the difference whether you're Kobe Bryant or you're

1362
01:02:22,280 --> 01:02:25,880
Speaker 3: an alcoholics, anonymous or young kid. If you learn agency

1363
01:02:25,880 --> 01:02:27,640
Speaker 3: and acceptance that way, it's pretty cool.

1364
01:02:28,520 --> 01:02:32,000
Speaker 2: You mentioned play before, and just for people that sports

1365
01:02:32,080 --> 01:02:35,400
Speaker 2: works because it's a great analogy. We get to see

1366
01:02:35,600 --> 01:02:38,120
Speaker 2: the actual Oh, that's what that person's doing. It's much

1367
01:02:38,160 --> 01:02:40,200
Speaker 2: easier to observe the kind of concept you're speaking of

1368
01:02:40,320 --> 01:02:43,400
Speaker 2: on the sporting field than it is anywhere else than

1369
01:02:43,480 --> 01:02:45,120
Speaker 2: music or something like that, because oh right, I can

1370
01:02:45,160 --> 01:02:47,520
Speaker 2: see the difference in that person's focus moment before they

1371
01:02:47,520 --> 01:02:48,440
Speaker 2: take the point or whatever.

1372
01:02:49,000 --> 01:02:54,160
Speaker 1: A play, particularly the opposite of play is fear.

1373
01:02:55,000 --> 01:02:57,600
Speaker 2: If you look at a player, an athlete who is

1374
01:02:57,640 --> 01:03:00,240
Speaker 2: out there, yes, high profile, yes, grand final, yes, yes,

1375
01:03:00,400 --> 01:03:02,360
Speaker 2: you know, all or nothing, We're going to get relegated,

1376
01:03:02,360 --> 01:03:04,720
Speaker 2: We're out of the league next game. This doesn't happen.

1377
01:03:05,240 --> 01:03:08,880
Speaker 2: But if you see someone who's playing, they are unstoppable.

1378
01:03:08,920 --> 01:03:10,040
Speaker 1: I would know.

1379
01:03:10,240 --> 01:03:13,600
Speaker 2: I mean, you're more afl got perhaps, But Gavin Wangane

1380
01:03:13,640 --> 01:03:15,840
Speaker 2: if you look at Gavin Wangane like he's a kid

1381
01:03:15,840 --> 01:03:21,320
Speaker 2: playing backyard, forty Reese wash Latrell Mitchell, the giant, huge,

1382
01:03:22,040 --> 01:03:25,840
Speaker 2: powerful men, but their mindset is of like I'm eight

1383
01:03:26,760 --> 01:03:28,920
Speaker 2: and I'm playing with big cousins and this is how

1384
01:03:28,920 --> 01:03:31,240
Speaker 2: I'm going to beat them. And because they do that,

1385
01:03:31,720 --> 01:03:35,480
Speaker 2: you can't defend against it. And it's extraordinary. How do

1386
01:03:35,520 --> 01:03:38,680
Speaker 2: people access that sense of play in those really high

1387
01:03:38,680 --> 01:03:39,400
Speaker 2: pressure moments.

1388
01:03:39,560 --> 01:03:42,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, there's two ways to do it well, there's quite

1389
01:03:42,160 --> 01:03:44,760
Speaker 3: a few ways, but it's either a confidence issue or

1390
01:03:44,760 --> 01:03:47,880
Speaker 3: a belief issue. Confidence is evidence based, like it's learned experience.

1391
01:03:47,920 --> 01:03:49,520
Speaker 3: You have confidence in your skills and it kind of

1392
01:03:49,520 --> 01:03:53,640
Speaker 3: becomes repeat behavior, but you also have beliefs, and certain

1393
01:03:53,680 --> 01:03:56,520
Speaker 3: beliefs hold us back. I'm not worthy to be in

1394
01:03:56,560 --> 01:03:59,280
Speaker 3: this Grand Final team, or i am worthy to be

1395
01:03:59,320 --> 01:04:01,760
Speaker 3: in this team. For me, one of the most powerful

1396
01:04:01,800 --> 01:04:05,920
Speaker 3: beliefs that it's either nature or you nurture it is

1397
01:04:05,960 --> 01:04:09,280
Speaker 3: to believe in your potential and trust that you'll find

1398
01:04:09,320 --> 01:04:12,360
Speaker 3: a way through. Because if you think about it, if

1399
01:04:12,440 --> 01:04:14,600
Speaker 3: you believe in your potential and trust that in this

1400
01:04:14,640 --> 01:04:18,040
Speaker 3: Grand Final you'll figure it out, it fundamentally changes your

1401
01:04:18,040 --> 01:04:21,240
Speaker 3: relationship with uncertainty. You can't control the future, you're not

1402
01:04:21,280 --> 01:04:23,680
Speaker 3: that good. But you can control your relationship with the

1403
01:04:23,720 --> 01:04:27,240
Speaker 3: future and with uncertainty purely by believing in your potential

1404
01:04:27,320 --> 01:04:30,680
Speaker 3: and trusting that you stick together statue of true to yourself,

1405
01:04:31,320 --> 01:04:36,000
Speaker 3: because that unlocks this incredible sense of possibility and opportunity right,

1406
01:04:36,280 --> 01:04:38,520
Speaker 3: this potential of what you can do in this moment.

1407
01:04:38,880 --> 01:04:41,440
Speaker 3: When someone has that intrinsically, like Reese Walsh last year,

1408
01:04:41,480 --> 01:04:43,880
Speaker 3: or Dusty Martin's like, give me the ball. A lot

1409
01:04:43,920 --> 01:04:45,320
Speaker 3: of athletes don't want the ball in the hand in

1410
01:04:45,320 --> 01:04:47,280
Speaker 3: the last minute of the game, right, but a lot

1411
01:04:47,320 --> 01:04:48,000
Speaker 3: of athletes do.

1412
01:04:48,360 --> 01:04:49,280
Speaker 1: I just mentioned response.

1413
01:04:49,560 --> 01:04:51,600
Speaker 2: A tear kind of came to my eye just this

1414
01:04:51,640 --> 01:04:54,280
Speaker 2: is how emotional I feel thinking about that moment. Not

1415
01:04:54,280 --> 01:04:56,800
Speaker 2: because I'm Queensland and you know, eight in a row,

1416
01:04:57,320 --> 01:05:01,040
Speaker 2: but just because watching an athlete consider what he went.

1417
01:05:00,960 --> 01:05:04,120
Speaker 1: Through, because who he is, He's the Aboriginal man. He's

1418
01:05:04,120 --> 01:05:07,080
Speaker 1: got shit piled upon him from the greatest of heights.

1419
01:05:07,120 --> 01:05:08,760
Speaker 2: He was in the carr and Back to the future

1420
01:05:08,760 --> 01:05:10,560
Speaker 2: with a dump truck of pool on him, trying to

1421
01:05:10,560 --> 01:05:13,880
Speaker 2: play and trying to perform, and still was able to

1422
01:05:14,040 --> 01:05:14,479
Speaker 2: do that.

1423
01:05:14,560 --> 01:05:19,000
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, he created a boundary for himself, right. And

1424
01:05:19,040 --> 01:05:21,760
Speaker 3: there's a few different ways we teach that, but he's

1425
01:05:21,840 --> 01:05:25,280
Speaker 3: effectively in the flow state. The flow state is identical

1426
01:05:25,320 --> 01:05:27,960
Speaker 3: to that play purpose potential. I mentioned three stages of

1427
01:05:28,000 --> 01:05:30,720
Speaker 3: being in flow. One is his sense of autonomy, an agency,

1428
01:05:30,760 --> 01:05:33,000
Speaker 3: the freedom to play. The second one is doing something

1429
01:05:33,000 --> 01:05:35,480
Speaker 3: that really matters. Obviously, playing in a Grand Vinyl matters, right,

1430
01:05:35,760 --> 01:05:37,720
Speaker 3: And the third one is the sense of mastery. I

1431
01:05:37,760 --> 01:05:40,440
Speaker 3: believe I can master this particular game, with this particular moment,

1432
01:05:41,080 --> 01:05:44,120
Speaker 3: and you're getting back to the ologies and isms everywhere

1433
01:05:44,120 --> 01:05:47,600
Speaker 3: you look in philosophy and religion. Whether you're a psychologist

1434
01:05:47,640 --> 01:05:49,080
Speaker 3: or trying to get in the zone, or a musician

1435
01:05:49,120 --> 01:05:51,320
Speaker 3: trying to get in the pocket, it's the same three

1436
01:05:51,320 --> 01:05:53,680
Speaker 3: states you want to get into. But I think for

1437
01:05:53,800 --> 01:05:56,520
Speaker 3: me at the moment today, people come to me for

1438
01:05:56,560 --> 01:05:59,160
Speaker 3: confidence in their skills, but typically what they're lacking is

1439
01:05:59,240 --> 01:06:02,880
Speaker 3: belief in themselves or belief in their potential. And if

1440
01:06:02,880 --> 01:06:04,760
Speaker 3: confidence and belief have a punch up in the street,

1441
01:06:05,120 --> 01:06:06,800
Speaker 3: I often ask my clients, who do you reckon I'll win?

1442
01:06:07,320 --> 01:06:09,440
Speaker 3: More often than not, they say confidence, and I go,

1443
01:06:10,600 --> 01:06:14,000
Speaker 3: belief kicks confidences. But because confidence is evidence based, it

1444
01:06:14,000 --> 01:06:17,360
Speaker 3: goes have I been here before in this moment, Belief goes,

1445
01:06:17,760 --> 01:06:20,080
Speaker 3: I haven't been here before. But I believe in my

1446
01:06:20,120 --> 01:06:22,920
Speaker 3: potential and I'll trust I'll find a way through. And

1447
01:06:22,920 --> 01:06:25,800
Speaker 3: that's I think what Rhys Walsh and Dusty and others,

1448
01:06:26,320 --> 01:06:28,400
Speaker 3: And the one bit of the book that the only

1449
01:06:28,400 --> 01:06:30,200
Speaker 3: bit of the book I'm concerned might get a clickbait

1450
01:06:30,240 --> 01:06:33,800
Speaker 3: into the US, and is when I call bullshit on

1451
01:06:33,840 --> 01:06:37,440
Speaker 3: pressure is a privilege that slogan Billy jan King, who

1452
01:06:38,360 --> 01:06:40,560
Speaker 3: who created I'm in awe of Billy Jen King. By

1453
01:06:40,560 --> 01:06:42,600
Speaker 3: the way, she's an absolute legend. I love her to death.

1454
01:06:43,040 --> 01:06:44,760
Speaker 3: But if you go and play the US Open walk

1455
01:06:44,800 --> 01:06:47,360
Speaker 3: down on center Court, there's a sign. You know, pressure

1456
01:06:47,440 --> 01:06:49,880
Speaker 3: is a privilege. And I want to get rid of

1457
01:06:49,920 --> 01:06:52,880
Speaker 3: the word expectations in chapter one, which means I want

1458
01:06:52,880 --> 01:06:55,720
Speaker 3: to redefine what pressure actually means, because pressure is not

1459
01:06:55,800 --> 01:06:59,360
Speaker 3: a privilege. A farmer who's waiting for it to reign

1460
01:06:59,400 --> 01:07:01,480
Speaker 3: for three years, who've just lost his farm, his family,

1461
01:07:01,520 --> 01:07:05,000
Speaker 3: and probably his sanity, he wouldn't call pressure a privilege.

1462
01:07:05,880 --> 01:07:07,200
Speaker 3: And if you're sitting at home waiting for your on

1463
01:07:07,240 --> 01:07:10,600
Speaker 3: collegy results, that's not a privilege either. But I tell

1464
01:07:10,600 --> 01:07:12,919
Speaker 3: you what is a privilege. If you've worked really hard

1465
01:07:12,960 --> 01:07:16,080
Speaker 3: for something that really care about, really matters, and you're

1466
01:07:16,120 --> 01:07:19,800
Speaker 3: in the moment the possibility or the opportunity that you

1467
01:07:19,840 --> 01:07:22,680
Speaker 3: can do in this moment, that's the privilege.

1468
01:07:23,040 --> 01:07:23,160
Speaker 1: Right.

1469
01:07:23,280 --> 01:07:25,960
Speaker 3: The possibility or the opportunity is a privilege. We just

1470
01:07:26,000 --> 01:07:28,560
Speaker 3: don't need to call it pressure. Yes, it's intense, but

1471
01:07:28,560 --> 01:07:30,160
Speaker 3: we don't have to call it pressure. So it's just

1472
01:07:30,200 --> 01:07:33,120
Speaker 3: reframing because words really matter if you're saying it, you're

1473
01:07:33,160 --> 01:07:36,920
Speaker 3: thinking it, so reframing the language that you use, and

1474
01:07:37,360 --> 01:07:39,840
Speaker 3: you know, it's really really important today because it's now

1475
01:07:39,880 --> 01:07:42,680
Speaker 3: the number one deathbed regret expectations. I wish I had

1476
01:07:42,720 --> 01:07:45,240
Speaker 3: the courage to be me rather than the expectations of others.

1477
01:07:45,600 --> 01:07:48,120
Speaker 3: It's crazy that that's the number one deathbed regret. And

1478
01:07:48,120 --> 01:07:51,680
Speaker 3: everywhere I go, especially teenagers, they believe they have to

1479
01:07:51,720 --> 01:07:54,240
Speaker 3: live up to someone else's expectations. That puts them in

1480
01:07:54,280 --> 01:07:57,240
Speaker 3: this gap mentality. It's that you know that when then syndrome,

1481
01:07:57,520 --> 01:08:00,200
Speaker 3: When I get that job, then I'll be worthy. Whence

1482
01:08:00,240 --> 01:08:02,640
Speaker 3: I'm in that relationship, then I'll be loved. Right then

1483
01:08:02,680 --> 01:08:05,960
Speaker 3: I'll be validated. But it never works because the goalpost

1484
01:08:06,080 --> 01:08:09,959
Speaker 3: just keep moving right creates this cortsol. I'm saying, there's

1485
01:08:09,960 --> 01:08:12,240
Speaker 3: such a better way to live our lives today. Just

1486
01:08:12,320 --> 01:08:14,960
Speaker 3: measure backwards rather than measure forwards. Someone says, what do

1487
01:08:15,040 --> 01:08:16,840
Speaker 3: you mean. I said, well, if I've got a piece

1488
01:08:16,840 --> 01:08:18,639
Speaker 3: of paper here, and I said it right, o Usha,

1489
01:08:19,080 --> 01:08:21,400
Speaker 3: let's write down all the little wins that you've had

1490
01:08:21,400 --> 01:08:23,360
Speaker 3: along your life, all the little gains, all the little

1491
01:08:23,360 --> 01:08:26,439
Speaker 3: successes from when you first started right in whatever career

1492
01:08:26,479 --> 01:08:28,800
Speaker 3: you want to where you are right now. You look

1493
01:08:28,840 --> 01:08:30,680
Speaker 3: at this sit of paper and you go, WHOA, I've

1494
01:08:30,680 --> 01:08:33,280
Speaker 3: had a pretty good life and I go, okay, how

1495
01:08:33,280 --> 01:08:37,120
Speaker 3: do you feel now, you'd say, well, crowey, I feel grateful,

1496
01:08:37,439 --> 01:08:42,240
Speaker 3: I feel successful, I feel happy, I feel confident, And

1497
01:08:42,640 --> 01:08:45,400
Speaker 3: my favorite word at the moment is I feel content.

1498
01:08:46,280 --> 01:08:48,639
Speaker 3: Now you're not done yet. There's still all these goals

1499
01:08:48,680 --> 01:08:50,000
Speaker 3: and dreams you want to chase down for the rest

1500
01:08:50,000 --> 01:08:52,200
Speaker 3: of your life. It just means everything you go after

1501
01:08:52,240 --> 01:08:55,360
Speaker 3: from this moment on is I want, not a need.

1502
01:08:55,680 --> 01:08:57,680
Speaker 3: Like if you need it for self validation, that's just

1503
01:08:57,720 --> 01:08:59,960
Speaker 3: going to put pressure, emotional pressure. But if you want

1504
01:09:00,080 --> 01:09:01,679
Speaker 3: to but you don't need it, then you don't mind

1505
01:09:01,680 --> 01:09:05,400
Speaker 3: what happens, and you could be totally committed and fully detached.

1506
01:09:05,720 --> 01:09:07,519
Speaker 2: To get to that moment though, And you do talk

1507
01:09:07,520 --> 01:09:11,360
Speaker 2: about this a bit. You've spoken about the men and quartersol.

1508
01:09:11,400 --> 01:09:14,120
Speaker 2: There are some physiological things that we can do in

1509
01:09:14,240 --> 01:09:20,040
Speaker 2: our bodies to give ourselves more possibility. There was a

1510
01:09:20,080 --> 01:09:22,280
Speaker 2: time when I was so and well I needed two

1511
01:09:22,320 --> 01:09:25,040
Speaker 2: different kinds of antisichotics and some SSRIs and nsris to

1512
01:09:25,040 --> 01:09:28,920
Speaker 2: give myself those possibilities because my neural pathways was so hardwired.

1513
01:09:29,439 --> 01:09:33,360
Speaker 2: I was just in I couldn't see any input without doom.

1514
01:09:33,560 --> 01:09:36,160
Speaker 2: So I needed to have a little space around those

1515
01:09:36,200 --> 01:09:38,800
Speaker 2: thoughts and their works. I really recommend it if that's

1516
01:09:38,840 --> 01:09:42,479
Speaker 2: your thing, But I don't think anyone can transcend our

1517
01:09:42,560 --> 01:09:46,960
Speaker 2: bodies instant responses. It's fresh in my mind. So I'm

1518
01:09:47,000 --> 01:09:51,280
Speaker 2: thinking about Novak Chokovic the other night at the Open final.

1519
01:09:51,880 --> 01:09:55,240
Speaker 2: He lost the match, and this is one of the

1520
01:09:55,240 --> 01:09:56,960
Speaker 2: greatest players of all time. We'll go down as one

1521
01:09:56,960 --> 01:09:59,559
Speaker 2: of the greatest players of all time, even Novak Dzokovic,

1522
01:10:00,000 --> 01:10:03,040
Speaker 2: he's got probably an army of people like you. Makes

1523
01:10:03,040 --> 01:10:05,360
Speaker 2: a fault on a serve and he folds in half

1524
01:10:05,439 --> 01:10:08,839
Speaker 2: like a croissant. His body instantly hits him with that feeling.

1525
01:10:08,920 --> 01:10:11,639
Speaker 2: He's got that hormone running through him that goes, oh fuck.

1526
01:10:12,280 --> 01:10:16,160
Speaker 2: But then six seconds later he's back. That would have

1527
01:10:16,400 --> 01:10:20,320
Speaker 2: that would take me three days. Okay, there are some

1528
01:10:20,360 --> 01:10:22,800
Speaker 2: things we can do physiologically to give us a possibility

1529
01:10:22,880 --> 01:10:25,400
Speaker 2: to get back to our moment. What are the what

1530
01:10:25,439 --> 01:10:27,400
Speaker 2: are the things that like it's just punters like us,

1531
01:10:27,560 --> 01:10:29,720
Speaker 2: What are the things that we can do to help

1532
01:10:29,800 --> 01:10:31,519
Speaker 2: us get back in the moment and have ourselves some

1533
01:10:31,520 --> 01:10:32,080
Speaker 2: more choices.

1534
01:10:32,280 --> 01:10:36,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, rather than react with fear, you respond with play.

1535
01:10:37,160 --> 01:10:40,640
Speaker 3: So okay, his natural reaction was devastation.

1536
01:10:40,840 --> 01:10:42,840
Speaker 2: Right, you can't get in front of it. He can't

1537
01:10:42,880 --> 01:10:44,760
Speaker 2: be shitty about it. Even the stoics right about it's

1538
01:10:44,760 --> 01:10:46,360
Speaker 2: like it's going to happen. It's just don't say anything.

1539
01:10:46,360 --> 01:10:47,799
Speaker 2: Betweenty minutes or sort of correct.

1540
01:10:47,840 --> 01:10:51,200
Speaker 3: So how quickly he can get into acceptance? Yeah, okay,

1541
01:10:51,320 --> 01:10:54,800
Speaker 3: that ship sailed? What's next? And that's what curate That's

1542
01:10:54,800 --> 01:10:57,960
Speaker 3: what play means curiosity. What's next? Okay? Why did I

1543
01:10:58,000 --> 01:11:01,200
Speaker 3: double fold? What can I do differently? Or just laugh

1544
01:11:01,240 --> 01:11:04,000
Speaker 3: at yourself if you can instinctively say, what does play

1545
01:11:04,040 --> 01:11:07,120
Speaker 3: look like? Here? Okay, I've just double folder, I've just faltered,

1546
01:11:07,120 --> 01:11:10,000
Speaker 3: and so forth. Okay, what can I do differently? Sometimes

1547
01:11:10,040 --> 01:11:13,280
Speaker 3: it's not a mindset, it's a breathing exercise because if

1548
01:11:13,280 --> 01:11:16,639
Speaker 3: he takes one big, deep belly breath, there's no vegdas, right,

1549
01:11:17,080 --> 01:11:19,519
Speaker 3: there's seventy five percent more oxygen there. But if he's

1550
01:11:19,680 --> 01:11:21,280
Speaker 3: in the fear state, he's up in his lungs with

1551
01:11:21,320 --> 01:11:24,439
Speaker 3: that fight or flight kind of sense. That belly breath

1552
01:11:24,520 --> 01:11:28,280
Speaker 3: tells the brain everything's going to be okay, right, If

1553
01:11:28,320 --> 01:11:30,160
Speaker 3: you're about to be tacked by a tiger or a shark,

1554
01:11:30,200 --> 01:11:31,960
Speaker 3: you're not going to be in this laughing Buddha sense, right,

1555
01:11:32,160 --> 01:11:33,840
Speaker 3: gonna be up with your lungs in that fight or flight.

1556
01:11:34,200 --> 01:11:36,559
Speaker 3: So athletes learn, I'm just going to take a big,

1557
01:11:36,600 --> 01:11:40,559
Speaker 3: deep breath here, right, just to pause. Some athletes hum

1558
01:11:40,800 --> 01:11:43,920
Speaker 3: in between stimulus and response. There's a space in that space.

1559
01:11:44,000 --> 01:11:47,439
Speaker 3: They just hum what do we do now kind of

1560
01:11:47,439 --> 01:11:51,160
Speaker 3: thing and just get your back into the Humming is

1561
01:11:52,080 --> 01:11:55,519
Speaker 3: like the form of meditation, right. It's one of the

1562
01:11:55,520 --> 01:11:59,200
Speaker 3: most natural ways to just calm. The whole nervous system

1563
01:11:59,360 --> 01:12:01,880
Speaker 3: is just humming. It's crazy and it stell. Parel talks

1564
01:12:01,880 --> 01:12:05,080
Speaker 3: about this a lot in her work. Right, just creates

1565
01:12:05,120 --> 01:12:07,800
Speaker 3: this pause to able to think, Okay, we're too from here.

1566
01:12:07,840 --> 01:12:11,439
Speaker 3: So you don't react quickly, right, you know, you just um,

1567
01:12:11,560 --> 01:12:14,400
Speaker 3: You slow down, type into curiosity, and you respond. It's

1568
01:12:14,400 --> 01:12:16,560
Speaker 3: just a it's just a space. I wonder if but

1569
01:12:17,200 --> 01:12:18,479
Speaker 3: belly breathing can do that as well.

1570
01:12:18,600 --> 01:12:22,400
Speaker 2: The word is very similar in every language because that's

1571
01:12:22,439 --> 01:12:25,360
Speaker 2: the noise that a baby hears inside the womb and

1572
01:12:25,840 --> 01:12:28,720
Speaker 2: reminds them that it's cool. And so that's why that

1573
01:12:28,840 --> 01:12:31,960
Speaker 2: sound and the word for father often has duh in

1574
01:12:32,000 --> 01:12:34,280
Speaker 2: it because that's a really simple sound to make for

1575
01:12:34,360 --> 01:12:35,360
Speaker 2: kids in every culture.

1576
01:12:35,560 --> 01:12:40,120
Speaker 1: I wonder if, hmm, if you think of that, yeah,

1577
01:12:40,280 --> 01:12:42,880
Speaker 1: is a thing that transcends cultures exactly.

1578
01:12:42,920 --> 01:12:45,640
Speaker 3: Now, I'm just going to ask you a question. How

1579
01:12:45,680 --> 01:12:50,760
Speaker 3: do you end a yoga session? Right? Yeah? You just

1580
01:12:51,000 --> 01:12:53,479
Speaker 3: the practicing the vibration, what it does for your whole

1581
01:12:53,880 --> 01:12:56,599
Speaker 3: nervous system. There's much more experts that can go into

1582
01:12:56,600 --> 01:12:57,160
Speaker 3: the size.

1583
01:12:57,000 --> 01:12:59,360
Speaker 2: People are breathing right now? All right, like big warm,

1584
01:12:59,360 --> 01:13:01,960
Speaker 2: I on breathing, But what is deliberately breathing? What are

1585
01:13:02,000 --> 01:13:04,200
Speaker 2: some you know, what is the deliberate breathing technique that

1586
01:13:04,200 --> 01:13:06,160
Speaker 2: people could try listening whatever they're doing right now, that

1587
01:13:06,240 --> 01:13:07,679
Speaker 2: will change how their body feels.

1588
01:13:07,880 --> 01:13:08,400
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1589
01:13:08,200 --> 01:13:10,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, In the book we write about that. I think

1590
01:13:10,120 --> 01:13:12,240
Speaker 3: six or seven different types of breathing, depending on whether

1591
01:13:12,240 --> 01:13:13,519
Speaker 3: you want to get to sleep or you want to

1592
01:13:13,520 --> 01:13:16,120
Speaker 3: perform and so forth. The one that I use the most,

1593
01:13:16,320 --> 01:13:19,160
Speaker 3: even before this session started, was just box breathing or

1594
01:13:19,160 --> 01:13:21,200
Speaker 3: belly breathing, and you can google it, but it's basically,

1595
01:13:21,720 --> 01:13:23,960
Speaker 3: you breathe, you breathe in while breathing out with your

1596
01:13:23,960 --> 01:13:26,200
Speaker 3: diaphragm with a breath and hold it for four seconds

1597
01:13:26,200 --> 01:13:30,080
Speaker 3: and breathe out for four seconds. It's four four four four. Right.

1598
01:13:30,479 --> 01:13:33,280
Speaker 3: That for me just starts just to relax and tell

1599
01:13:33,320 --> 01:13:35,280
Speaker 3: the brain I'm going to be okay here right, I'm

1600
01:13:35,320 --> 01:13:38,240
Speaker 3: not under attack. But a lot of people use the

1601
01:13:38,320 --> 01:13:43,800
Speaker 3: cry breath, which is like you know, like two inhales

1602
01:13:43,960 --> 01:13:48,040
Speaker 3: with your kind of all that tension, like when you're crying,

1603
01:13:48,200 --> 01:13:48,880
Speaker 3: when you're sobbing.

1604
01:13:49,120 --> 01:13:52,040
Speaker 2: Picture of three year old realizing that they are going

1605
01:13:52,080 --> 01:13:54,080
Speaker 2: to get a turn on the slide and it's going

1606
01:13:54,120 --> 01:13:54,599
Speaker 2: to be okay.

1607
01:13:54,640 --> 01:13:56,960
Speaker 1: That's the noise they make, Yeah, resetting.

1608
01:13:57,560 --> 01:14:00,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, you're kind of just breathing out right. So you know,

1609
01:14:00,400 --> 01:14:02,280
Speaker 3: there's the whim Hoff method, which is the fast breathing

1610
01:14:02,320 --> 01:14:06,200
Speaker 3: and so forth. So yeah, you find which breathing technique

1611
01:14:06,240 --> 01:14:08,840
Speaker 3: works for you in a particular moment. I think it's

1612
01:14:08,840 --> 01:14:09,679
Speaker 3: really powerful as well.

1613
01:14:09,960 --> 01:14:12,640
Speaker 2: And tell me about because Wolf and I tried it

1614
01:14:12,720 --> 01:14:17,280
Speaker 2: last night. What does it mean to what does it

1615
01:14:17,320 --> 01:14:20,160
Speaker 2: do for us when we're going about it at night,

1616
01:14:20,160 --> 01:14:22,400
Speaker 2: when we think about the things that went well for

1617
01:14:22,520 --> 01:14:25,040
Speaker 2: us today and we start think about the things we

1618
01:14:25,080 --> 01:14:27,639
Speaker 2: want to go well for us tomorrow. It's not you know,

1619
01:14:28,040 --> 01:14:30,240
Speaker 2: it's not manifesting. I'm not want to think that I'm

1620
01:14:30,240 --> 01:14:32,519
Speaker 2: wearing a linen shirt and ding in some crystals around here.

1621
01:14:32,880 --> 01:14:35,000
Speaker 2: What does it do for our brain when we go,

1622
01:14:35,240 --> 01:14:38,120
Speaker 2: you know, let's tomorrow with this game. I'm going to

1623
01:14:38,479 --> 01:14:39,760
Speaker 2: you know, I'm going to play really well. I'm going

1624
01:14:39,760 --> 01:14:40,880
Speaker 2: to do my best, and I'm going to take my

1625
01:14:40,880 --> 01:14:42,639
Speaker 2: breast and I'm going to every points just a point.

1626
01:14:42,800 --> 01:14:44,400
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah. The two things in the book we talk

1627
01:14:44,439 --> 01:14:47,640
Speaker 3: about is redefining success and then redefining what a win is.

1628
01:14:47,680 --> 01:14:50,519
Speaker 3: To your question. The way to do those two things

1629
01:14:50,640 --> 01:14:52,760
Speaker 3: with the success list, for instance, the simplest way to

1630
01:14:52,800 --> 01:14:55,840
Speaker 3: do is rather than saying I know I'll be successful

1631
01:14:55,920 --> 01:14:59,240
Speaker 3: when and puts you in that conditional love state, when

1632
01:14:59,280 --> 01:15:01,559
Speaker 3: I get that marriage, once I get that promotion, once

1633
01:15:01,600 --> 01:15:03,840
Speaker 3: I get that house kind of thing. We get people

1634
01:15:03,880 --> 01:15:06,880
Speaker 3: to say I know I'm being successful when and so

1635
01:15:07,000 --> 01:15:09,240
Speaker 3: you might say I know I'm being successful when I

1636
01:15:09,240 --> 01:15:11,439
Speaker 3: get out of my comfort zone, when I exercise, when

1637
01:15:11,439 --> 01:15:13,160
Speaker 3: I get seven hours sleep and have a belly laugh

1638
01:15:13,200 --> 01:15:15,840
Speaker 3: with my kids. Want to get a regreen light in

1639
01:15:15,880 --> 01:15:17,920
Speaker 3: the way to work when I see a beautiful sunrise. Right,

1640
01:15:18,320 --> 01:15:21,640
Speaker 3: what you're doing is you're redefining success for you and

1641
01:15:21,800 --> 01:15:26,400
Speaker 3: only you, and you're becoming self determined, not socially determined

1642
01:15:26,520 --> 01:15:29,599
Speaker 3: or extrinsically determined, because only you know what your taste

1643
01:15:29,640 --> 01:15:32,160
Speaker 3: bud's like or what gives you a belly laugh. Right,

1644
01:15:32,600 --> 01:15:35,280
Speaker 3: that's really really powerful because you can control that those

1645
01:15:35,320 --> 01:15:37,560
Speaker 3: intrinsic motivations. You can't control whether you get there in

1646
01:15:37,600 --> 01:15:40,920
Speaker 3: the future. And when you redefine success into the present moment,

1647
01:15:41,200 --> 01:15:43,160
Speaker 3: I should no longer has to wait to be happy.

1648
01:15:43,760 --> 01:15:45,920
Speaker 3: You don't have to wait to be successful. Right, You're

1649
01:15:45,960 --> 01:15:48,559
Speaker 3: redefining success the things you can control in the moment.

1650
01:15:49,280 --> 01:15:51,400
Speaker 3: Part of that process is also then to redefine what

1651
01:15:51,439 --> 01:15:54,800
Speaker 3: a win is and what we suggest is and Dan

1652
01:15:54,840 --> 01:15:57,640
Speaker 3: Sullivan is a fantastic US coach talks about this a

1653
01:15:57,640 --> 01:16:00,000
Speaker 3: lot is before you go to bed, the most important

1654
01:16:00,120 --> 01:16:01,760
Speaker 3: now of the day is the last hour of the day.

1655
01:16:02,400 --> 01:16:04,759
Speaker 3: Most of us unfortunate on our phones and doom scrolling

1656
01:16:04,760 --> 01:16:07,200
Speaker 3: and looking at our calendars, and we say, well, why

1657
01:16:07,240 --> 01:16:09,439
Speaker 3: don't you write before you go to bed? Just write

1658
01:16:09,479 --> 01:16:11,880
Speaker 3: down three wins that you had today, and again you

1659
01:16:12,280 --> 01:16:13,640
Speaker 3: decide what a win is. Right, it could be your

1660
01:16:13,720 --> 01:16:17,919
Speaker 3: favorite coffee with your favorite barista. But it also identified

1661
01:16:17,920 --> 01:16:20,520
Speaker 3: three wins you'd like to have tomorrow, because the neuroscience

1662
01:16:20,560 --> 01:16:23,000
Speaker 3: of this is incredible. First of all, you sleep better

1663
01:16:23,320 --> 01:16:25,400
Speaker 3: because you go to bed grateful for those three wins

1664
01:16:25,439 --> 01:16:27,639
Speaker 3: that you had today that your reptilian brain doesn't want

1665
01:16:27,640 --> 01:16:30,559
Speaker 3: you to remember. But then overnight your brain is problem

1666
01:16:30,600 --> 01:16:33,760
Speaker 3: solving these three wins you'd like to have tomorrow. It's

1667
01:16:33,800 --> 01:16:36,160
Speaker 3: already thinking ahead of you, right, So if you do

1668
01:16:36,200 --> 01:16:40,000
Speaker 3: this for seven days, that's twenty one wins that your

1669
01:16:40,479 --> 01:16:43,160
Speaker 3: negativity buyas brain does not want you to remember. So

1670
01:16:43,200 --> 01:16:46,559
Speaker 3: you're overwriting the negativity bias, but also your problem solving

1671
01:16:46,600 --> 01:16:48,600
Speaker 3: and playing with with the potential, the possibility of what

1672
01:16:48,640 --> 01:16:51,880
Speaker 3: can happen tomorrow. So yeah, it's just a really simple technique.

1673
01:16:52,640 --> 01:16:55,639
Speaker 3: But so is acceptance lists as well, right, and really

1674
01:16:55,640 --> 01:16:58,280
Speaker 3: simple technique is you know, parents are the kids. Okay,

1675
01:16:58,760 --> 01:17:01,840
Speaker 3: what can we let go here? So tomorrow morning, we're

1676
01:17:01,840 --> 01:17:03,840
Speaker 3: not going to pontificate about something that didn't go our

1677
01:17:03,880 --> 01:17:06,599
Speaker 3: way today? What can we accept and that whole winning

1678
01:17:06,640 --> 01:17:09,000
Speaker 3: or learning kind of thing, what's the lesson we can learn?

1679
01:17:09,120 --> 01:17:11,439
Speaker 3: Let it go and then get up tomorrow and still

1680
01:17:11,439 --> 01:17:14,680
Speaker 3: feel that you're unconditionally worthy. So we talk about the

1681
01:17:14,680 --> 01:17:16,559
Speaker 3: six most powerful words a parent can say to the kids.

1682
01:17:16,640 --> 01:17:19,120
Speaker 3: Is I love to watch you play, I love to

1683
01:17:19,120 --> 01:17:20,479
Speaker 3: watch your dance, or I love to watch you draw.

1684
01:17:20,479 --> 01:17:23,760
Speaker 3: Because it's unconditional, And we tell some way we tell

1685
01:17:23,800 --> 01:17:27,120
Speaker 3: I leite coaches, as we tell parents reward process, not outcome,

1686
01:17:27,160 --> 01:17:30,000
Speaker 3: which is where we started this conversation. Someone will say,

1687
01:17:30,040 --> 01:17:32,400
Speaker 3: what do you mean by that? So well well done?

1688
01:17:32,400 --> 01:17:34,960
Speaker 3: When you fell down and you got up again, right,

1689
01:17:35,200 --> 01:17:37,080
Speaker 3: that's resilience, or well done. When you had to problem

1690
01:17:37,160 --> 01:17:39,840
Speaker 3: solve that tricky situation, that's play, Or well done. When

1691
01:17:39,880 --> 01:17:41,599
Speaker 3: you had to help your teammate who had no clue

1692
01:17:41,640 --> 01:17:43,439
Speaker 3: whether she was supposed to stand on the netball cord,

1693
01:17:44,160 --> 01:17:47,360
Speaker 3: that's purpose. Right. We call these things intrinsic motivations. But

1694
01:17:47,439 --> 01:17:50,320
Speaker 3: athletes and kids can control those things. They can't control

1695
01:17:50,360 --> 01:17:52,759
Speaker 3: where they win or lose. But if all we reward

1696
01:17:52,800 --> 01:17:56,519
Speaker 3: is outcome is achievement, that kids like athletes will learn

1697
01:17:56,800 --> 01:18:00,519
Speaker 3: that my self worth is determined on having to achieve

1698
01:18:00,560 --> 01:18:03,160
Speaker 3: something which we can't control, which creates that pressure that

1699
01:18:03,160 --> 01:18:06,040
Speaker 3: we referenced as well. The three most powerful words I

1700
01:18:06,040 --> 01:18:09,599
Speaker 3: think you can say, though, is no matter what you know,

1701
01:18:09,760 --> 01:18:12,080
Speaker 3: whatever you want to do with your life, We've got

1702
01:18:12,120 --> 01:18:15,120
Speaker 3: your back no matter what. Right We'll pull you up

1703
01:18:15,160 --> 01:18:16,960
Speaker 3: if we think you're going off track. But just so

1704
01:18:17,040 --> 01:18:19,920
Speaker 3: you know, right, whatever you are, we love you no

1705
01:18:20,000 --> 01:18:22,519
Speaker 3: matter what. Like it's unconditional. I think that's really powerful

1706
01:18:22,560 --> 01:18:22,880
Speaker 3: as well.

1707
01:18:24,600 --> 01:18:25,840
Speaker 1: I could talk to you all day, but I have

1708
01:18:25,920 --> 01:18:28,120
Speaker 1: one question I'm going to end with.

1709
01:18:28,200 --> 01:18:30,599
Speaker 2: Only because you've had access to people that most people

1710
01:18:30,720 --> 01:18:33,760
Speaker 2: never dream of being around. Just through your career, you

1711
01:18:33,840 --> 01:18:36,880
Speaker 2: have a lot of elite athletes and the people who,

1712
01:18:37,280 --> 01:18:41,200
Speaker 2: as I said Dave Chappelle, no, Chris Rock says, I

1713
01:18:41,200 --> 01:18:42,720
Speaker 2: don't want to be as rich as Shack. I want

1714
01:18:42,720 --> 01:18:45,240
Speaker 2: to be the guy who writes shacks checks. That's who

1715
01:18:45,320 --> 01:18:48,599
Speaker 2: I want to be. You know, you've been around people

1716
01:18:48,600 --> 01:18:52,280
Speaker 2: who are monumentally wealthy because of their athletic skill or

1717
01:18:52,400 --> 01:18:54,200
Speaker 2: you know, the fact that they founded a shoe company.

1718
01:18:55,760 --> 01:18:57,559
Speaker 1: So we might think, ah, if.

1719
01:18:57,479 --> 01:18:59,200
Speaker 2: I could pay my house off, no mortgage down, I'll

1720
01:18:59,240 --> 01:19:01,200
Speaker 2: be happy, all right. People who've probably done that six

1721
01:19:01,240 --> 01:19:03,240
Speaker 2: times and they have too many boats to be on

1722
01:19:03,280 --> 01:19:06,920
Speaker 2: at the same time when money is absolutely no object.

1723
01:19:06,960 --> 01:19:08,559
Speaker 2: The kind of people that you've you know them circles

1724
01:19:08,600 --> 01:19:12,120
Speaker 2: you moved in. Who are the happiest of those people?

1725
01:19:13,360 --> 01:19:16,680
Speaker 3: Well, if you define success as the alignment between what

1726
01:19:16,760 --> 01:19:20,760
Speaker 3: you value and how you show up in life, that

1727
01:19:20,840 --> 01:19:23,719
Speaker 3: should help answer the question. Right, if all you value

1728
01:19:23,760 --> 01:19:26,960
Speaker 3: is money, right, and you're going to live your life

1729
01:19:27,120 --> 01:19:28,960
Speaker 3: going after that, and that would be your definition of

1730
01:19:29,000 --> 01:19:32,560
Speaker 3: success for me, and we study the blue zones in

1731
01:19:32,600 --> 01:19:34,360
Speaker 3: the book. You know the people who live over one

1732
01:19:34,400 --> 01:19:36,639
Speaker 3: hundred years old, these centurions, what they have in common

1733
01:19:36,680 --> 01:19:40,799
Speaker 3: in these areas. For me, my aha writing the book

1734
01:19:41,880 --> 01:19:45,120
Speaker 3: would be an ash Barti causes RAM, which is an

1735
01:19:45,160 --> 01:19:50,760
Speaker 3: acronym stands for relationships, experiences and memories. And if you

1736
01:19:50,800 --> 01:19:53,719
Speaker 3: are living yourself with a sense of play, you value play,

1737
01:19:53,920 --> 01:19:56,760
Speaker 3: you value a sense of purpose and meaning, and you

1738
01:19:57,760 --> 01:20:00,679
Speaker 3: value getting out of your comfort zone to try new things,

1739
01:20:01,240 --> 01:20:03,360
Speaker 3: to try and realize your potential and the possibility of

1740
01:20:03,360 --> 01:20:05,760
Speaker 3: what you can do with this crazy thing called life.

1741
01:20:06,040 --> 01:20:09,200
Speaker 3: Along the way, if you're also doing that through relationships,

1742
01:20:09,880 --> 01:20:12,960
Speaker 3: experiences and then creating memories, and if you invest in

1743
01:20:12,960 --> 01:20:15,439
Speaker 3: those memories, they compound a thousand times better than any

1744
01:20:15,439 --> 01:20:17,040
Speaker 3: money you can can in the event, because they'll last

1745
01:20:17,040 --> 01:20:20,360
Speaker 3: a lifetime. Because you won't forget your first kiss you

1746
01:20:20,360 --> 01:20:22,760
Speaker 3: won't forget your first time you had a belly laugh

1747
01:20:22,840 --> 01:20:24,960
Speaker 3: with you with your child and so forth. These are

1748
01:20:25,000 --> 01:20:27,559
Speaker 3: the memories. And I think, if that's your that's what

1749
01:20:27,600 --> 01:20:30,479
Speaker 3: you value, right, and you're going after those and you

1750
01:20:30,520 --> 01:20:33,120
Speaker 3: get them pretty hard not to live a successful life, right,

1751
01:20:33,200 --> 01:20:36,559
Speaker 3: So don't get me wrong. Extrinsic motivations aren't bad. You

1752
01:20:36,600 --> 01:20:38,559
Speaker 3: need money to live and you need a house to

1753
01:20:38,600 --> 01:20:42,360
Speaker 3: live under. But if it's the detriment of your intrinsic motivations,

1754
01:20:42,400 --> 01:20:44,639
Speaker 3: the things that really light you up. And I did

1755
01:20:44,640 --> 01:20:47,040
Speaker 3: a lot of work in the finance industry after the

1756
01:20:47,080 --> 01:20:50,320
Speaker 3: Royal Commission, and just notice this whole generation of this

1757
01:20:50,479 --> 01:20:52,720
Speaker 3: like fifty plus alpha males who have woken up and

1758
01:20:52,760 --> 01:20:57,480
Speaker 3: they've achieved, but they weren't fulfilled. They were so extrinsically

1759
01:20:57,520 --> 01:20:59,840
Speaker 3: motivated to the detriment of the intrinsic and their kids

1760
01:20:59,880 --> 01:21:02,320
Speaker 3: have grown up and left home and they're all having

1761
01:21:02,320 --> 01:21:04,400
Speaker 3: this kind of cats in the cradle moment. I thought, shit,

1762
01:21:04,479 --> 01:21:06,320
Speaker 3: what just happened in the last two decades, right in

1763
01:21:06,360 --> 01:21:08,599
Speaker 3: terms of my perspective, in terms of what was important

1764
01:21:08,600 --> 01:21:10,280
Speaker 3: to me. And I think, if you can get the

1765
01:21:10,320 --> 01:21:12,360
Speaker 3: balance right, right, don't get me wrong, I don't have

1766
01:21:12,400 --> 01:21:14,280
Speaker 3: a client on the planet who doesn't want to win right,

1767
01:21:14,720 --> 01:21:17,240
Speaker 3: doesn't want to be successful, whether it's a corporation, an athlete,

1768
01:21:17,320 --> 01:21:19,719
Speaker 3: or a team. But in terms of how you define

1769
01:21:19,760 --> 01:21:23,680
Speaker 3: success within things you can control intrinsically, you focus on

1770
01:21:23,720 --> 01:21:25,719
Speaker 3: those things, the big things will take care of themselves.

1771
01:21:25,720 --> 01:21:28,160
Speaker 3: It's so counter and chewer if it's not funny, But

1772
01:21:28,240 --> 01:21:30,400
Speaker 3: for some reason we've gone the last three decades as

1773
01:21:30,400 --> 01:21:34,160
Speaker 3: a human race. We've gone so external which we can't control.

1774
01:21:34,320 --> 01:21:36,880
Speaker 3: But if you go internal, focus on the things you can,

1775
01:21:37,040 --> 01:21:38,599
Speaker 3: those big things will take care of themselves.

1776
01:21:39,720 --> 01:21:41,040
Speaker 1: I'm glad here in the world.

1777
01:21:41,080 --> 01:21:43,360
Speaker 2: Man, Thanks for writing this book, and thanks for coming

1778
01:21:43,360 --> 01:21:45,439
Speaker 2: around to chat. I could really speak to you for

1779
01:21:45,479 --> 01:21:47,280
Speaker 2: ten straight hours, but I'm not going to because you've

1780
01:21:47,280 --> 01:21:47,920
Speaker 2: got the stuff to do.

1781
01:21:49,080 --> 01:21:49,599
Speaker 1: That was Finn.

1782
01:21:49,720 --> 01:21:51,840
Speaker 3: Thank you for everything good, very good. Thank you for

1783
01:21:51,840 --> 01:21:53,880
Speaker 3: everything you to do as well. It's a privilege to

1784
01:21:53,880 --> 01:21:54,559
Speaker 3: spend some time with you.

1785
01:21:54,760 --> 01:21:58,559
Speaker 2: Thanks Man, That my friends is Ben Crow. His book

1786
01:21:58,600 --> 01:22:00,040
Speaker 2: Where the Light Gets In.

1787
01:22:00,080 --> 01:22:01,280
Speaker 1: Is available right now.

1788
01:22:01,640 --> 01:22:03,920
Speaker 2: I'll put a link in the show notes to get

1789
01:22:03,920 --> 01:22:06,920
Speaker 2: a copy for yourself. It's well worth, an absolutely sensational book,

1790
01:22:06,960 --> 01:22:09,600
Speaker 2: and gosh, I've been wanting to talk to.

1791
01:22:09,640 --> 01:22:11,960
Speaker 1: Him for so long, and it was an absolute thrill.

1792
01:22:11,960 --> 01:22:13,960
Speaker 1: Thanks so much to Damian Haffen and my producer for

1793
01:22:14,240 --> 01:22:16,360
Speaker 1: lining that up. That is up, as we say in

1794
01:22:16,400 --> 01:22:19,760
Speaker 1: our gig, that's a good get. It's a really good get.

1795
01:22:20,479 --> 01:22:21,720
Speaker 2: If you want to get in touch with me, it's

1796
01:22:21,720 --> 01:22:24,519
Speaker 2: pretty easy. There's a newsletter. You just hit replying the newslettery,

1797
01:22:24,560 --> 01:22:27,000
Speaker 2: you can write back to me. Also, if you want

1798
01:22:27,040 --> 01:22:28,880
Speaker 2: to just come say hi, come to a story Club show.

1799
01:22:28,960 --> 01:22:31,280
Speaker 2: Next one's on the twelfth of April. Twelfth of April

1800
01:22:31,320 --> 01:22:34,200
Speaker 2: Factory Theater. American tickets are in the show notes, jump

1801
01:22:34,280 --> 01:22:36,320
Speaker 2: on the YouTube, get on there, come and say hey,

1802
01:22:36,760 --> 01:22:37,160
Speaker 2: thanks so.

1803
01:22:37,160 --> 01:22:42,040
Speaker 1: Much for listening. I'm back on Monday.