WEBVTT - Paul Murray Live | 28 September 0:00:02.710 --> 0:00:08.230 This is Paul Murray Live. Thank you, Shari. Very big 0:00:08.450 --> 0:00:09.149 show tonight. 0:00:09.190 --> 0:00:11.440 We've got lots of people to get to, including the 0:00:11.470 --> 0:00:13.360 wonderful Senator Jacinta Dampage and Puprice. 0:00:13.380 --> 0:00:15.540 We'll get to her in a moment or two's time. 0:00:16.000 --> 0:00:18.700 Let us reflect, though, on the past 24 hours and 0:00:18.760 --> 0:00:23.239 the next 24 hours because, well, yesterday in Rugby League 0:00:23.260 --> 0:00:25.940 was a very special moment for everyone who was anything 0:00:26.000 --> 0:00:29.050 but a Panthers fan. Obviously, Panthers not happy to be 0:00:29.090 --> 0:00:33.760 bundled out of the semi-finals, but Newcastle, well, they came 0:00:33.800 --> 0:00:36.400 from nowhere, bottom of the table last year to top 0:00:36.420 --> 0:00:39.560 of the table, sorry, into the grand final this year. 0:00:39.600 --> 0:00:42.040 Of course, the Brisbane Lions, their massive celebration, but this 0:00:42.100 --> 0:00:45.510 is not a conversation about football because as exciting as 0:00:45.530 --> 0:00:47.870 that football game was and it was watched by lots 0:00:47.890 --> 0:00:50.750 of people around the country, about four million watching the 0:00:50.810 --> 0:00:55.170 AFL as well, the most impactful moment that will live 0:00:55.230 --> 0:00:59.840 beyond the football game happened before the football game. This 0:00:59.880 --> 0:01:04.500 is when all of the players, silent together, were in 0:01:04.540 --> 0:01:08.020 a moment of silence in unison with about 60,000 people. 0:01:08.040 --> 0:01:11.190 And that was a moment of silence for the police 0:01:11.209 --> 0:01:13.970 officer who died in a car accident last week. She 0:01:13.990 --> 0:01:17.209 was in the police vehicle at the time. Mia Lay 0:01:17.310 --> 0:01:20.690 is her name. Have a listen to the crowd and 0:01:20.730 --> 0:01:25.310 their absolute respect and solemnity for the moment at hand. 0:01:27.050 --> 0:01:30.750 We honor Mia, we thank her for her service, and 0:01:30.770 --> 0:01:33.970 we extend our deepest sympathies to all who loved her. 0:01:34.950 --> 0:01:38.320 Please stand and join us in observing a moment's silence 0:01:38.880 --> 0:01:41.120 in memory of Constable Mia Ley. 0:01:54.030 --> 0:01:56.370 Now, they didn't turn the microphones down. That was the 0:01:56.430 --> 0:02:01.270 natural sound of 60,000 people standing in silence, recognising the 0:02:01.330 --> 0:02:06.720 sacrifice of anyone who serves this country via taking care 0:02:06.900 --> 0:02:09.560 of us in the suburbs all day, every day in 0:02:09.600 --> 0:02:14.660 the police force. Mia's name will be added with another 0:02:14.720 --> 0:02:17.350 officer to the two most recent that have lost their 0:02:17.370 --> 0:02:23.130 lives in the New South Wales Police Service. Tomorrow is 0:02:23.210 --> 0:02:28.019 National Police Remembrance Day, where ceremonies will be held all 0:02:28.240 --> 0:02:32.380 over the country. The national focus will be at the 0:02:32.480 --> 0:02:36.000 Australian Police Memorial, which is just down from the War 0:02:36.040 --> 0:02:39.900 Memorial in Canberra. We visited that location when we were 0:02:39.919 --> 0:02:45.120 doing an outtown not that long ago. So tomorrow, when 0:02:45.160 --> 0:02:49.290 you have the opportunity on National Police Remembrance Day, take 0:02:49.310 --> 0:02:53.210 a moment... To remember the police officers who never came home, 0:02:53.270 --> 0:02:56.209 to the families who are forever changed as a result 0:02:56.370 --> 0:02:58.930 of firstly their service and then secondly for never coming home. 0:02:59.570 --> 0:03:02.829 And this show and I am always pro-police because these 0:03:02.870 --> 0:03:05.330 are people who run towards danger when others run the 0:03:05.370 --> 0:03:09.100 other way and they meet people on the worst day 0:03:09.120 --> 0:03:12.440 of their lives. They have to tell people the most 0:03:12.500 --> 0:03:15.440 heartbreaking news about their family members who won't be coming 0:03:15.500 --> 0:03:21.080 home and the at times, emotionally draining process of trying 0:03:21.100 --> 0:03:24.870 to find people who are those who are criminally responsible 0:03:25.000 --> 0:03:27.549 for others no longer being here. 0:03:29.169 --> 0:03:30.290 Tomorrow is a day. 0:03:30.130 --> 0:03:33.650 To pause for them and to show the same respect 0:03:34.210 --> 0:03:37.870 to them that they deserve. Police are special people. The 0:03:37.930 --> 0:03:41.410 work they do is impossibly difficult. To any and everyone 0:03:41.440 --> 0:03:44.440 who is part of the wider police family, strength and 0:03:44.480 --> 0:03:46.740 love for the most recent of losses, but thank you 0:03:46.880 --> 0:03:50.220 for what you do. I know 12 hours a day 0:03:50.580 --> 0:03:53.820 plus the overtime or an awful lot of paperwork, not 0:03:53.840 --> 0:03:56.990 to mention some of the dregs of humanity that at 0:03:57.010 --> 0:04:02.330 times you have to deal with. You may forget that 0:04:02.350 --> 0:04:04.400 the vast majority of people are not just good people, 0:04:04.410 --> 0:04:07.000 but more importantly, they are people who do support you. 0:04:07.920 --> 0:04:10.340 Even at times if our courts don't and our politicians 0:04:10.400 --> 0:04:15.270 just use weasel words. An example of one of the 0:04:15.450 --> 0:04:18.430 literal families inside the police family that are dealing with 0:04:18.450 --> 0:04:22.740 this is Mia's father, who spoke so eloquently. Now, remember 0:04:22.750 --> 0:04:25.020 the tragedy that his family is dealing with right now 0:04:25.080 --> 0:04:27.060 as this beautiful young woman is no longer with us, 0:04:27.080 --> 0:04:30.979 taken in the most speedy of ways. 0:04:32.160 --> 0:04:34.200 This is what he had to say to the media today. 0:04:35.520 --> 0:04:43.560 She's always been a sporty child, blessed with athletic ability. See, 0:04:43.600 --> 0:04:44.680 I was happy all the time. 0:04:48.160 --> 0:04:48.760 Full of life. 0:04:48.779 --> 0:04:56.869 I was extremely happy. Couldn't be prouder of her. 0:04:56.910 --> 0:04:57.210 Clem. 0:04:58.589 --> 0:05:00.710 The dad in all of us is feeling your pain 0:05:00.750 --> 0:05:03.450 but doesn't know what it is like to be walking 0:05:03.480 --> 0:05:05.779 in your shoes, but please know that all of those 0:05:05.820 --> 0:05:08.380 people at that footy game are representative of people around the. 0:05:08.339 --> 0:05:11.839 Country who are moved by. 0:05:12.580 --> 0:05:14.900 the loss of your daughter, and are offering all the 0:05:14.940 --> 0:05:18.219 strength they possibly can to your family. Again, a little 0:05:18.260 --> 0:05:20.870 more about what he had to say about her commitment 0:05:21.029 --> 0:05:21.970 to the force. 0:05:23.250 --> 0:05:28.830 She wanted to serve and protect people just like her aunt. 0:05:31.250 --> 0:05:31.529 Yeah. 0:05:32.120 --> 0:05:35.960 The last time we had an in-depth conversation, she was 0:05:36.040 --> 0:05:39.029 enjoying herself in the force, really enjoying it. 0:05:40.640 --> 0:05:41.900 Just impossibly tough stuff. 0:05:42.750 --> 0:05:44.910 To Mia's family, to the wider police family and to 0:05:45.050 --> 0:05:48.210 anyone who is remembering somebody who has served the police 0:05:48.430 --> 0:05:50.490 in your part of Australia but they never came home, 0:05:50.930 --> 0:05:52.910 thank you for their service and strength and love to 0:05:52.970 --> 0:05:56.990 the police, not just today, not just tomorrow, but for 0:05:57.070 --> 0:06:00.750 every day of the year because without you, I wouldn't 0:06:00.800 --> 0:06:01.770 want to think about that world. 0:06:03.880 --> 0:06:04.260 To more. 0:06:05.089 --> 0:06:07.539 mundane matters of life and death, but of course still 0:06:07.720 --> 0:06:10.800 desperately important, is that most likely tomorrow interest rates are 0:06:10.839 --> 0:06:12.400 about to go up. There's a two-day meeting of the 0:06:12.420 --> 0:06:15.560 Reserve Bank that has taken place. First one today, the 0:06:15.580 --> 0:06:20.029 announcement comes tomorrow. And remember, under the government of Anthony Albanese, 0:06:20.070 --> 0:06:25.030 there have been 15 interest rate rises. 15 interest rate rises. 0:06:25.510 --> 0:06:27.969 And despite the fact that we now have the highest 0:06:28.029 --> 0:06:30.210 interest rates in about 15 years, get ready for it 0:06:30.230 --> 0:06:34.339 all to happen again tomorrow. Borrowers are bracing for more 0:06:34.520 --> 0:06:37.880 repayment pain, with interest rates expected to hit their highest 0:06:37.940 --> 0:06:42.140 level in 15 years. With petrol prices soaring, all eyes 0:06:42.190 --> 0:06:45.750 are on the Reserve Bank tomorrow as household budgets reach 0:06:45.790 --> 0:06:49.409 breaking point. Now, again, you can reduce this to 0.25% 0:06:49.410 --> 0:06:54.370 or it could be reduced to how many dollars per month, but, 0:06:54.390 --> 0:06:58.310 of course, it is on top of the 15 versions 0:06:58.390 --> 0:07:01.630 of this story that have happened since the Albanese government 0:07:01.690 --> 0:07:06.000 came to power. The average Australian home loan currently in 0:07:06.040 --> 0:07:07.840 Australia is $ 731, 000, ranging from an average of $ 516, 000 in 0:07:07.860 --> 0:07:11.560 Tasmania to $ 842, 000 in New South Wales. First home buyers, 0:07:11.580 --> 0:07:13.780 their average is about $ 610, 000. The current average variable rate 0:07:13.800 --> 0:07:30.770 is somewhere between 6.24% and 6.62% for only occupiers. And 0:07:30.790 --> 0:07:33.130 that means that they're spending somewhere between about $ 4, 500 to 0:07:33.130 --> 0:07:34.030 $ 4, 680 per month on their mortgage. 0:07:34.050 --> 0:07:35.110 If it goes up by 0.25, that's another $ 120 on 0:07:35.130 --> 0:07:36.270 top of the home loan. That's $ 1, 400 on top of. 0:07:36.240 --> 0:07:38.540 The 15 times they have done that calculation into the 0:07:38.560 --> 0:08:00.500 best part... $ 15, 000, $ 20, 000, $ 30, 000 and even $ 40, 000 depending on 0:08:00.760 --> 0:08:03.640 the size of the mortgage that is held in Australia. 0:08:05.000 --> 0:08:06.840 From the one bedroom unit in the middle of the 0:08:06.860 --> 0:08:08.680 city all the way to the acreage in the bush, 0:08:10.290 --> 0:08:13.170 there are plenty of people who are at absolute boiling point. 0:08:13.380 --> 0:08:17.630 And you've seen in your suburb all sorts of stressed 0:08:17.670 --> 0:08:19.050 houses that are starting. 0:08:18.810 --> 0:08:19.550 To come on sale. 0:08:19.570 --> 0:08:22.370 We're starting to see the pressure that exists in the 0:08:22.410 --> 0:08:26.370 market and that's because of Mortgage stress, where, put simply, 0:08:26.930 --> 0:08:30.190 the repayments end up being too much that any family 0:08:30.230 --> 0:08:33.730 can afford. This is the true cost of Albanese and Labor. 0:08:35.170 --> 0:08:38.599 Research from the Polling Group, Roy Morgan, shows 29% of 0:08:38.640 --> 0:08:41.920 Australian mortgage holders, that's about 1.5 million people, are currently. 0:08:41.720 --> 0:08:43.100 At risk of mortgage stress. 0:08:43.880 --> 0:08:46.479 On average, their servicing of a new mortgage requires around 45% 0:08:46.480 --> 0:08:50.920 of household income. That's up from when it was just 30% 0:08:50.920 --> 0:08:57.980 six years ago. Now, the spin for Jim Chalmers has 0:08:58.020 --> 0:09:00.970 already kicked in in and around all of this, including 0:09:01.000 --> 0:09:03.710 that apparently there's nothing to see here when it comes 0:09:03.790 --> 0:09:07.309 to Australia, because what's happening in Australia is happening all 0:09:07.390 --> 0:09:08.250 over the world. 0:09:09.490 --> 0:09:13.479 I think it is the universal or near universal expectation 0:09:14.500 --> 0:09:19.480 of economists and the market that rates will go up 0:09:19.500 --> 0:09:22.520 around the world, including in Australia. If you look right 0:09:22.540 --> 0:09:26.960 across the major advanced economies... There is an expectation of 0:09:27.020 --> 0:09:28.500 higher interest rates around the world. 0:09:29.360 --> 0:09:32.250 What I find extraordinary about this bloke is that he 0:09:32.300 --> 0:09:35.250 thinks that people do not pay attention to their own circumstances, 0:09:35.790 --> 0:09:39.910 that people pay such little attention to anything that everything 0:09:39.950 --> 0:09:42.130 that is bad is the result of what's happening around 0:09:42.150 --> 0:09:44.290 the world and everything that's happening in Australia is exactly 0:09:44.330 --> 0:09:46.840 the same experience of what's happening around the world. 0:09:46.880 --> 0:09:49.679 Well, guess what? It just isn't. We had a look 0:09:49.700 --> 0:09:50.240 at this today. 0:09:52.730 --> 0:09:56.120 The United States has increased their interest rates just once 0:09:56.520 --> 0:10:00.670 this calendar year. New Zealand twice, Japan twice. the UK 0:10:01.010 --> 0:10:04.890 and Canada haven't moved. Australia, however, has moved three times. 0:10:06.220 --> 0:10:08.820 If it happens tomorrow, that will be four times in 0:10:09.200 --> 0:10:11.800 one year. That will be double the number of times 0:10:11.860 --> 0:10:14.300 in New Zealand, double the number of times in Japan. 0:10:14.860 --> 0:10:15.420 And remember. 0:10:16.540 --> 0:10:18.830 that the first two of those three rate rises happened 0:10:18.870 --> 0:10:23.089 before a bomb had been dropped in Iran. Don't trust me. 0:10:23.110 --> 0:10:26.610 Trust the person who made the decision to increase those 0:10:26.690 --> 0:10:31.929 interest rates before the war, before Chalmers was able to 0:10:31.970 --> 0:10:35.090 pretend that what's happening here is happening everywhere. Here's Michelle 0:10:35.130 --> 0:10:39.270 Bullock from just after they raised rates the second time 0:10:39.330 --> 0:10:39.770 this year. 0:10:40.850 --> 0:10:43.290 The board decided to raise the cash rate by 25 0:10:43.290 --> 0:10:47.490 basis points. Since the start of the year, the cash 0:10:47.510 --> 0:10:51.329 rate has now been increased by 75 basis points. These 0:10:51.390 --> 0:10:55.370 increases have been necessary to tighten financial conditions and slow 0:10:55.410 --> 0:10:58.050 growth in demand in the economy to ensure we get 0:10:58.090 --> 0:11:01.540 on top of inflation. Inflation in Australia was already too 0:11:01.600 --> 0:11:04.260 high before the recent conflict in the Middle East began. 0:11:05.600 --> 0:11:07.820 Remember, that is what the person who is in charge 0:11:07.860 --> 0:11:10.200 of the group that is deciding to raise interest rates 0:11:10.260 --> 0:11:12.179 because this government didn't do enough. 0:11:12.200 --> 0:11:13.020 To fight inflation. 0:11:13.900 --> 0:11:16.500 We told you that all the way through 24, all 0:11:16.540 --> 0:11:19.620 the way through 25, and it's come home to roost 0:11:19.790 --> 0:11:21.470 in 2026. 0:11:21.470 --> 0:11:23.010 But, of course, nothing to see here. It's all an 0:11:23.070 --> 0:11:23.949 international problem. 0:11:24.210 --> 0:11:27.270 Australia's experience with interest rates is no different than everywhere else, 0:11:27.530 --> 0:11:29.870 despite the fact that I've just shown you it isn't. 0:11:31.870 --> 0:11:34.350 We have an inflation challenge in our economy made much 0:11:34.429 --> 0:11:35.990 worse by a war in the Middle East. 0:11:37.050 --> 0:11:39.890 And can I just remind you as well that Jim Chalmers, 0:11:39.910 --> 0:11:42.320 who will feel your pain and understand that people are 0:11:42.360 --> 0:11:46.179 under an awful lot of stress, has had 15 interest 0:11:46.240 --> 0:11:50.189 rate rises since he's been the Treasurer. There's been 16 0:11:50.190 --> 0:11:54.590 since the very low rates of the COVID period. One 0:11:54.630 --> 0:11:57.050 of them happened just before the election in 2022. And 0:11:57.390 --> 0:12:00.500 this is what he said when interest rates just went 0:12:00.550 --> 0:12:03.020 up once. And compare that to what he says about 0:12:03.040 --> 0:12:08.140 his own record, that is 15, maybe tomorrow, 16 times worse. 0:12:08.020 --> 0:12:14.160 Than This is a full-blown cost-of-living crisis on Scott Morrison's watch. 0:12:14.320 --> 0:12:17.819 This Prime Minister has an excuse for everything and a 0:12:17.880 --> 0:12:21.180 plan for nothing. The issue that we have with Scott 0:12:21.220 --> 0:12:25.100 Morrison is not that he doesn't take responsibility for every 0:12:25.210 --> 0:12:28.329 aspect of this. It's that he takes responsibility for none 0:12:28.370 --> 0:12:31.910 of this whatsoever. And when things are going well, he's 0:12:31.950 --> 0:12:34.210 in front of the camera claiming all the credit. When 0:12:34.270 --> 0:12:37.370 times are tough, he takes none of the responsibility. 0:12:39.210 --> 0:12:41.910 These people honestly think we don't remember, that we weren't there, 0:12:41.970 --> 0:12:45.880 that we weren't living through all of this, that that 0:12:46.000 --> 0:12:49.240 memory-wiping thing from the Men in Black movie is fake, 0:12:49.960 --> 0:12:54.450 the Jedi mind trick made up. We remember what's happening 0:12:54.490 --> 0:12:57.329 because it is happening to us. It is happening to 0:12:57.390 --> 0:13:00.370 our family members. It is happening to the wider society 0:13:00.770 --> 0:13:03.820 around us. And no amount of spin and gaslighting is 0:13:03.860 --> 0:13:08.780 going to change the inevitable connection that he himself tried 0:13:08.840 --> 0:13:13.240 to make and successfully made in terms of a political one, 0:13:13.600 --> 0:13:16.830 that the government is responsible for the economic circumstances under 0:13:16.870 --> 0:13:18.730 which we live. It was a cost of living crisis, 0:13:19.090 --> 0:13:23.710 but now everything's worse. It's an interest rate crisis. Fifteen, 0:13:23.890 --> 0:13:29.630 maybe tomorrow, sixteen Times worse than before he just said that. 0:13:30.790 --> 0:13:34.450 And another bit of Jim Chalmers' spin. You may well 0:13:34.490 --> 0:13:36.449 have heard that there has been a slight improvement in 0:13:36.470 --> 0:13:37.329 the federal budget. 0:13:38.650 --> 0:13:43.400 The deficit finishing $ 6 billion lower than estimated in May. 0:13:43.559 --> 0:13:46.820 Confirming Nine News report of a $ 6 billion improvement to 0:13:46.860 --> 0:13:47.980 the budget bottom line. 0:13:48.040 --> 0:13:51.220 The budget deficit is $ 6 billion better off. The budget 0:13:51.360 --> 0:13:51.620 is $ 6. 0:13:51.540 --> 0:13:56.190 Billion better off. I mean, extraordinary, right? 0:13:56.929 --> 0:13:59.670 that not only does the government put it out, but 0:13:59.710 --> 0:14:02.020 the media writes it down and then the media turns 0:14:02.040 --> 0:14:04.900 around and makes it the headline. There's only one headline, 0:14:04.920 --> 0:14:07.070 which is Australia owes a trillion dollars and we're in 0:14:07.090 --> 0:14:07.910 deficit for the next 40 years. 0:14:08.940 --> 0:14:11.620 But here he is again, involved in the spin today. 0:14:12.020 --> 0:14:13.849 Now, of course, if you get a little bit lost 0:14:14.020 --> 0:14:16.410 in all these things, it's okay, because you have the 0:14:16.470 --> 0:14:19.170 budget in May, then you have the mid-year economic review, 0:14:19.390 --> 0:14:21.850 and then you have the actual results from the federal budget, 0:14:22.130 --> 0:14:24.510 and then there is a sort of end-of-year economic review. 0:14:24.530 --> 0:14:27.650 So there's four times that the Treasurer gets to stand 0:14:27.750 --> 0:14:31.150 up and make everything seem better than it actually seems, 0:14:31.750 --> 0:14:35.410 and then, because he's in charge of deciding what some 0:14:35.430 --> 0:14:39.510 of the guesswork is inside the budget, they deliberately make 0:14:39.550 --> 0:14:42.320 things slightly more pessimistic in order for things to become 0:14:42.430 --> 0:14:45.640 slightly more rosy so they can pretend to the people 0:14:45.660 --> 0:14:49.120 who are half paying attention that they actually did anything positive. 0:14:49.560 --> 0:14:51.850 I repeat, a trillion dollars in debt and we're in 0:14:51.890 --> 0:14:55.330 deficit for the next 40 years. But here's the spin 0:14:55.610 --> 0:14:57.470 that the media just run with. 0:14:58.970 --> 0:15:01.990 The final budget outcome that we're releasing today shows that 0:15:02.070 --> 0:15:06.730 the deficit came in $ 6 billion better than expected and 0:15:06.830 --> 0:15:10.870 debt was $ 10. 6 billion lower at the end of the 0:15:10.930 --> 0:15:14.750 financial year. We have made a lot of progress in 0:15:14.770 --> 0:15:17.489 the budget and we've made more progress since then. 0:15:18.330 --> 0:15:20.270 Now, let's compare this back to last week when we 0:15:20.290 --> 0:15:23.030 were talking about the intergenerational report. You notice that when 0:15:23.050 --> 0:15:25.310 he has good news to tell you, he tells you 0:15:25.330 --> 0:15:29.750 that in raw dollar numbers... $ 10 billion here, $ 6 billion there. 0:15:30.070 --> 0:15:32.530 But when he comes to, how big will the deficit 0:15:32.550 --> 0:15:34.890 be in five years' time? Well, it'll be a percentage 0:15:34.930 --> 0:15:37.100 of GDP. Well, what's that number going to be? We'll 0:15:37.120 --> 0:15:39.340 get back to you in a second. They just move 0:15:39.380 --> 0:15:41.760 the goalposts in front of you and then tell you 0:15:41.920 --> 0:15:46.640 you're lying when you saw them do it. The fundamental 0:15:46.680 --> 0:15:49.050 about the Australian economy right now is that tomorrow a 0:15:49.450 --> 0:15:51.530 third of the country is going to get an even 0:15:51.610 --> 0:15:55.010 tighter squeeze potentially. I hope it doesn't happen. I definitely 0:15:55.050 --> 0:15:57.920 hope it doesn't happen. But that squeeze that has been 0:15:57.960 --> 0:16:00.780 getting ever worse since this government came to power is 0:16:00.830 --> 0:16:03.590 going to get even tighter and even worse and even harder. 0:16:03.790 --> 0:16:04.729 For people in Australia. 0:16:04.950 --> 0:16:07.150 The Treasurer will feel your pain while he was hooking 0:16:07.210 --> 0:16:10.630 into the previous government as a full-blown crisis when they 0:16:10.670 --> 0:16:15.190 were one, one interest rate rise. I repeat, the only 0:16:15.210 --> 0:16:17.750 thing that you need to say about this government when 0:16:17.790 --> 0:16:20.000 it comes to economic performance is the truth. The credit 0:16:20.020 --> 0:16:25.550 card bill is $ 1 trillion. Oh, but it's $ 10 billion better. Okay, 0:16:25.770 --> 0:16:29.910 you know that a trillion is $ 1, 000 billion, right? And 0:16:29.950 --> 0:16:33.480 that $ 10 billion compared to $ 1, 000 billion. 0:16:33.500 --> 0:16:37.660 You get my point? And as for budget deficits, oh, well, 0:16:38.040 --> 0:16:39.480 it's not as bad as we said it would be. Well, 0:16:39.500 --> 0:16:41.860 guess what? We're going to spend more than we earn. 0:16:41.720 --> 0:16:43.620 This year, next year, the next year, the next year, 0:16:43.640 --> 0:16:45.060 the next year, the next year, the next decade, the 0:16:45.100 --> 0:16:48.900 next decade, into the 2040s, the 2050s and the 20 0:16:48.900 --> 0:16:49.700 damn 60s. 0:16:49.860 --> 0:16:51.420 So shove your spin, doctor. 0:16:52.460 --> 0:16:54.560 It might work with some, but it doesn't work on 0:16:54.780 --> 0:16:56.660 those of us in the real world who see the 0:16:56.720 --> 0:17:00.320 consequences of your arrogance and your double standard. But, of course, 0:17:00.340 --> 0:17:05.460 to have double standards is just par for the course, 0:17:05.500 --> 0:17:06.660 because it's all about the politics. 0:17:06.720 --> 0:17:08.800 Isn't it? Every single time. 0:17:10.859 --> 0:17:13.440 Now, yet another poll has given a headline about the 0:17:13.480 --> 0:17:16.040 performance of One Nation right now, and you may well 0:17:16.060 --> 0:17:19.070 have heard that, as we told you last night, that 0:17:19.109 --> 0:17:22.720 the news poll... has been able to break down preferred 0:17:22.880 --> 0:17:25.480 prime minister in all of the states. And the senator 0:17:25.530 --> 0:17:27.330 from Queensland, who is up for re-election at the next 0:17:27.350 --> 0:17:29.790 federal election, by the way, is apparently the preferred prime 0:17:29.810 --> 0:17:31.210 minister in her home state. 0:17:32.590 --> 0:17:35.909 Pauline Hanson is riding a wave of support in Queensland, 0:17:35.970 --> 0:17:38.860 with One Nation now well ahead of the major parties 0:17:39.080 --> 0:17:40.100 on a primary vote. 0:17:40.560 --> 0:17:42.639 Pauline Hanson has taken the lead. 0:17:42.960 --> 0:17:44.580 Other people can comment on that, but I just want 0:17:44.600 --> 0:17:45.859 to say that we're doing what we said we were 0:17:45.880 --> 0:17:46.220 going to do. 0:17:46.440 --> 0:17:49.310 According to new polling, the One Nation leader is winning 0:17:49.420 --> 0:17:50.570 over her home state. 0:17:51.950 --> 0:17:52.250 Excellent. 0:17:52.550 --> 0:17:55.219 Now, something that is a little more interesting to me 0:17:55.260 --> 0:17:57.540 than the preferred Prime Minister number in the States is 0:17:57.560 --> 0:17:57.780 to have. 0:17:57.720 --> 0:18:00.600 A look at the primary vote across all of the states. 0:18:01.119 --> 0:18:03.540 Now, you basically have a scenario here where, as you 0:18:03.560 --> 0:18:06.340 can see in the headlines, New South Wales, Western Australia, Queensland, 0:18:06.359 --> 0:18:09.229 they're the hottest places for One Nation. 0:18:10.050 --> 0:18:14.450 For the Coalition, their best state is Victoria. Why? 0:18:14.750 --> 0:18:17.130 Well, of course, because there would be a direct correlation 0:18:17.210 --> 0:18:20.869 between what is happening in Victoria with the state parliamentary 0:18:20.910 --> 0:18:25.850 party and the federal parliamentary party. The worst position right now, 0:18:25.890 --> 0:18:29.110 as we keep rolling through the states there, for the 0:18:29.330 --> 0:18:35.100 Labor Party is Queensland at just 25%. As for the Greens, 0:18:35.220 --> 0:18:38.600 their best position is in Victoria and the other column 0:18:38.660 --> 0:18:41.860 is getting smaller by the poll. Fascinating to watch here 0:18:42.440 --> 0:18:44.190 as we see the primary vote in New South Wales 0:18:44.210 --> 0:18:47.129 and Victoria and Queensland and in Western Australia. Western Australia, 0:18:47.150 --> 0:18:49.770 that primary vote now. Basically, only having one point in 0:18:49.810 --> 0:18:56.030 between really matters. Of course, for anyone simply doing the maths, 29, 21, 0:18:56.030 --> 0:18:56.970 bang on 50. 0:18:56.970 --> 0:18:58.379 But, of course, it's all about preferences. 0:18:58.430 --> 0:19:01.199 What you do with the second number that you put 0:19:01.260 --> 0:19:05.300 on a ballot paper will determine who the government is. Now, 0:19:05.980 --> 0:19:08.440 there are former Labor voters that are thinking about going 0:19:08.460 --> 0:19:10.619 to One Nation. There are former Coalition voters going to 0:19:10.700 --> 0:19:13.010 One Nation. But if you want a change of government, 0:19:13.150 --> 0:19:15.050 regardless of what you do with number one, you've got 0:19:15.070 --> 0:19:15.629 to make sure. 0:19:17.420 --> 0:19:19.920 But there is an alternative party that you want to 0:19:19.940 --> 0:19:21.520 put at number two, they get the preference and there 0:19:21.540 --> 0:19:23.480 is a change in the government. 0:19:24.130 --> 0:19:27.670 The only way that happens, all right? Greens last, Labor 0:19:27.710 --> 0:19:28.470 not far from them. 0:19:30.369 --> 0:19:34.850 Now, again, we were sitting here, 2013, watching tens of 0:19:34.950 --> 0:19:39.170 thousands of people entering the country illegally by boats. Tens 0:19:39.210 --> 0:19:42.300 of thousands that paid people smugglers to come from places 0:19:42.380 --> 0:19:45.359 like Indonesia to come to the country. 0:19:45.440 --> 0:19:45.740 Why? 0:19:45.800 --> 0:19:49.550 Because the then Labor government, between 2007 and 2013, kind 0:19:50.210 --> 0:19:51.210 of left the door open. 0:19:51.260 --> 0:19:51.520 Why? 0:19:51.560 --> 0:19:55.500 Because they were responding to the nasty Liberals who, of course, 0:19:55.540 --> 0:19:58.120 from 1996 to 2007 had. 0:19:57.420 --> 0:19:59.119 The door locked tight. 0:19:59.980 --> 0:20:02.939 Of course, the consequence of all of that was not 0:20:02.980 --> 0:20:05.340 just the tens of thousands of people turned up here illegally. 0:20:06.930 --> 0:20:09.350 But also that about 1,000 people died on their way 0:20:09.390 --> 0:20:11.689 to coming here, including, of course, remember the boat off 0:20:11.730 --> 0:20:16.240 Christmas Island? I know this stuff is 2010. For anyone who's, 0:20:16.740 --> 0:20:20.920 you know, older than 35, it feels like two weeks ago. 0:20:23.580 --> 0:20:26.840 But, of course, that is 16 years ago. Now, the 0:20:26.880 --> 0:20:28.100 lesson was pretty clearly learnt. 0:20:28.140 --> 0:20:30.340 It was one that supposedly we all thought had been 0:20:30.359 --> 0:20:32.720 learnt by both sides of politics, that this was something 0:20:32.740 --> 0:20:35.689 that even Anthony Albanese had claimed... despite the fact that 0:20:35.710 --> 0:20:37.669 he said he'd never turn a boat around, that he 0:20:37.710 --> 0:20:39.990 was fine to continue doing it once he became the 0:20:40.010 --> 0:20:42.169 Prime Minister. But those of us that have actually been 0:20:42.210 --> 0:20:47.640 paying attention knew that Anthony Albanese, who never, never supported 0:20:49.600 --> 0:20:52.639 the tough line that saved lives but did end up 0:20:52.680 --> 0:20:55.870 with thousands of people in detention because they are here illegally, 0:20:56.250 --> 0:20:58.189 was always going to find a way to let them 0:20:58.230 --> 0:21:01.740 off the hook. This has been coming for some time. 0:21:01.800 --> 0:21:04.240 People that were on temporary protection visas now are on 0:21:04.320 --> 0:21:10.450 permanent visas. And we now look here that apparently 19,000 0:21:10.730 --> 0:21:13.150 permanent residency visas have been given to people who got 0:21:13.190 --> 0:21:18.530 here illegally. So in the end, it worked. They paid 0:21:18.570 --> 0:21:21.869 someone to get here. They waited out the system. And 0:21:21.910 --> 0:21:25.939 eventually the party, who always wanted to let them off 0:21:25.980 --> 0:21:27.939 the hook, didn't just let them off the hook, but 0:21:27.960 --> 0:21:32.100 have now made them permanent residents of of this country. Now, 0:21:32.140 --> 0:21:34.500 under the people who did the hard yards in Operation 0:21:34.520 --> 0:21:36.420 Sovereign Borders are furious. 0:21:37.680 --> 0:21:42.270 Is like categorically underlined capital letters. 0:21:42.369 --> 0:21:45.320 The Labor Party has lost control of the migration system. 0:21:49.760 --> 0:21:53.420 Now, there's been some fairly heavy rain in the United States. Now, 0:21:53.440 --> 0:21:55.380 this has been in New Jersey. There's been some pretty 0:21:55.820 --> 0:21:58.629 bad floods there of recent days. But there is one 0:21:58.650 --> 0:22:00.290 little part of this story that I really want to 0:22:00.330 --> 0:22:02.810 show you, which is not just the obvious devastation that 0:22:02.850 --> 0:22:06.490 comes with natural disasters, but I'll let the local news 0:22:06.530 --> 0:22:10.020 channel 12 tell you, did somebody just see a shark 0:22:10.100 --> 0:22:11.520 swimming up the middle of the street? 0:22:13.090 --> 0:22:15.790 Check out this video from Surf City. It appears to be, 0:22:15.910 --> 0:22:20.869 take a look, yes, a small shark swimming around in 0:22:20.910 --> 0:22:21.669 the flood. 0:22:21.410 --> 0:22:25.990 Water right there in the street with those fins letting 0:22:26.010 --> 0:22:28.370 you know, I'm here, you stay away. 0:22:30.119 --> 0:22:30.600 It is amazing. 0:22:30.619 --> 0:22:32.680 Americans do television better than anyone else in the world, 0:22:32.720 --> 0:22:34.640 but the local news is always so crap. I never 0:22:34.660 --> 0:22:36.800 understand that. You would have thought it was like reserve grade, 0:22:36.840 --> 0:22:38.200 the feeder system, but still. 0:22:39.990 --> 0:22:41.629 That was the way they commentated it. A shark in 0:22:41.650 --> 0:22:43.310 the middle of the street in part of a flood. 0:22:43.830 --> 0:22:46.950 Doubt that's happening in Karratha any time soon because, of course, 0:22:46.970 --> 0:22:49.090 we're heading our way into a pretty dry summer. But 0:22:49.450 --> 0:22:51.380 before all of that happens, we're coming with our town 0:22:51.670 --> 0:22:55.100 to Karratha, Western Australia. Thanks to our people at Harvey Norman. 0:22:55.119 --> 0:22:56.900 Thank you to everyone who turned up in Bathurst last night. 0:22:56.920 --> 0:22:59.780 Jesus was fabulous. I'm always bowled over by how much 0:22:59.820 --> 0:23:01.660 the show means to you, how much the channel means 0:23:01.700 --> 0:23:03.980 to you, and it means the world, and it re-energises. 0:23:04.040 --> 0:23:07.060 It really fills my cup. to have Mum and Wayne there, 0:23:07.100 --> 0:23:08.359 to have the kids. 0:23:08.119 --> 0:23:10.480 There, my missus and so many mates. It just meant 0:23:10.500 --> 0:23:12.100 the world. Please, join us. 0:23:12.380 --> 0:23:14.800 A month from now, Sunday, 25th. 0:23:14.359 --> 0:23:18.220 Of October, ourtownatnews24. com. au. I need these numbers locked in as 0:23:18.300 --> 0:23:20.879 soon as possible. It all has to do with the venue, 0:23:21.000 --> 0:23:22.900 about where we're going and how we're going to arrange 0:23:22.920 --> 0:23:25.139 the venue. So let's know how many people are going 0:23:25.160 --> 0:23:35.760 to come. Karratha, Western Australia, Sunday the 25th of October, ourtownatnews24. com. au. 0:23:31.340 --> 0:23:33.929 Jacinta Price is the Shadow Small Business Minister and she 0:23:33.970 --> 0:23:34.609 joins us now. 0:23:34.790 --> 0:23:36.689 From the great heart of the country, otherwise known as 0:23:36.730 --> 0:23:38.610 Alice Springs. Senator, lovely to see you. How you been? 0:23:39.830 --> 0:23:43.850 I've been all right, actually. Yeah, considering all things are 0:23:44.430 --> 0:23:47.360 going pretty crazy in our country at the moment, but 0:23:47.890 --> 0:23:50.240 Alice Springs' weather is nice and warm, so that is 0:23:50.300 --> 0:23:50.760 a bonus. 0:23:50.980 --> 0:23:51.460 Good stuff. 0:23:51.540 --> 0:23:53.640 All right, let's talk about this interest rate rise because, again, 0:23:54.280 --> 0:23:56.540 to repeat myself, This bloke made such a song and 0:23:56.560 --> 0:23:57.640 dance when it went up once. 0:23:58.180 --> 0:23:58.869 Once, right? 0:23:59.180 --> 0:24:03.110 What happens 15, 16 times later? Quick, look everywhere else 0:24:03.150 --> 0:24:06.590 and we feel your pain. Sorry, also, stop comparing us 0:24:06.630 --> 0:24:08.210 to the rest of the world when we are worse 0:24:08.250 --> 0:24:10.550 than the rest of the world and anyone with like 0:24:10.850 --> 0:24:13.679 three brain cells remembers it and knows it. 0:24:15.240 --> 0:24:19.320 Yeah, look, you know, the truth is, Paul, as we 0:24:19.460 --> 0:24:23.899 all know, and I suppose as we suggested before the 0:24:23.940 --> 0:24:27.450 previous election and the one before that, well, we said 0:24:27.510 --> 0:24:29.770 life isn't going to be easy. Well, it certainly isn't 0:24:29.810 --> 0:24:32.889 bloody easy under Albanese right now with the cost of 0:24:32.930 --> 0:24:37.700 living crisis rising. that is continuing on like a terrible 0:24:37.820 --> 0:24:41.939 nightmare that just won't end. We've got the largest decline 0:24:42.119 --> 0:24:46.120 in living standards in the developed world, which is really 0:24:46.180 --> 0:24:51.580 quite embarrassing when we compare ourselves to other countries. And now, 0:24:51.619 --> 0:24:54.820 of course, the prospect of yet another rate rise that 0:24:54.840 --> 0:24:57.360 we know the four banks are telling us we can 0:24:57.420 --> 0:25:00.790 expect that to occur tomorrow, and that will be the 0:25:00.810 --> 0:25:06.690 17th rise in under this Prime Minister, he and his 0:25:06.770 --> 0:25:11.129 Treasurer have nothing to be proud about, you know, and 0:25:11.150 --> 0:25:15.149 the highest cash rate in 15 years. That is what 0:25:15.210 --> 0:25:19.640 we're expecting. And small businesses, as I know very well now, 0:25:19.780 --> 0:25:22.340 having visited many around the country and speaking to them 0:25:22.380 --> 0:25:25.980 on a regular basis, they're paying the price for Labor's 0:25:26.140 --> 0:25:27.820 economic mismanagement. 0:25:27.840 --> 0:25:29.570 I mean, they're already... in. 0:25:30.010 --> 0:25:36.710 Terms of high fuel costs, power, freight, insurance, compliance costs, 0:25:37.050 --> 0:25:41.359 and now, of course, they're facing another increase in the 0:25:41.400 --> 0:25:47.109 cost of finance. And this government expects the RBA to 0:25:47.150 --> 0:25:50.630 do their homework, expects them to try to manage inflation 0:25:51.130 --> 0:25:57.160 on their behalf and are trying to outsource those responsibilities. 0:25:57.420 --> 0:26:00.340 And yet we've got Jim Chalmers who just wants to 0:26:00.380 --> 0:26:04.189 spend spend, spend. I mean, that's how we get increased 0:26:04.230 --> 0:26:08.629 inflation when you spend taxpayers' dollars like it's going out 0:26:08.670 --> 0:26:11.930 of fashion. And they just don't know how to take 0:26:12.369 --> 0:26:18.580 responsibility for a budget and a declining economic outlook for 0:26:18.660 --> 0:26:22.980 our country, which is really bloody horrible right now and 0:26:23.240 --> 0:26:24.419 looking forward into the future. 0:26:24.440 --> 0:26:24.660 Yeah. 0:26:24.800 --> 0:26:27.290 Yeah, but I just find it amazing how they think 0:26:27.330 --> 0:26:30.230 they get this get-out-of-jail-free card, which is to pretend that 0:26:30.290 --> 0:26:32.609 everything is either Donald Trump's fault or everything is to 0:26:32.650 --> 0:26:36.990 do with the Iran war, when the three-interest rate rises 0:26:37.170 --> 0:26:39.659 this year, two of them happened before the war, the 0:26:39.700 --> 0:26:42.740 Reserve Bank governor said it was because of inflation. Do 0:26:43.380 --> 0:26:45.739 they honestly think that no-one's paying attention, or is that 0:26:45.840 --> 0:26:48.850 actually their bet, is that people aren't paying attention? 0:26:48.920 --> 0:26:49.200 Because. 0:26:50.359 --> 0:26:52.199 I know everyone in my life is paying attention and 0:26:52.260 --> 0:26:54.659 that's including the people who don't watch the show as 0:26:54.740 --> 0:26:56.260 frequently as they should because I'm their friend. 0:26:57.140 --> 0:27:00.460 Well, that's right. You know, the small business owners around 0:27:00.480 --> 0:27:04.470 the country are certainly paying attention because we've got... We're 0:27:04.490 --> 0:27:08.010 seeing an increase in insolvencies. We've got one in three 0:27:08.070 --> 0:27:11.970 businesses in the last 12 months have considered shutting the doors. 0:27:13.050 --> 0:27:16.070 You know, the decisions that this government is making is 0:27:16.109 --> 0:27:20.119 making it harder for small businesses... The uncertainty is meaning 0:27:20.760 --> 0:27:23.800 when they don't have money in their pockets, they can't 0:27:23.859 --> 0:27:26.580 invest that back into the business. They can't invest in 0:27:26.859 --> 0:27:30.340 new equipment. They can't employ another person. They can't bring 0:27:30.440 --> 0:27:36.439 on another apprentice. The final budget outcome shows us, and 0:27:36.460 --> 0:27:39.889 Aussies aren't stupid, that taxes are up, spending is up, 0:27:40.290 --> 0:27:44.650 debt is up, and the interest bill continues to bloody 0:27:44.670 --> 0:27:48.070 well climb. And the only thing that isn't up is 0:27:48.170 --> 0:27:52.030 the amount of money left over for everyday Australians at. 0:27:51.990 --> 0:27:52.619 The end of it all. 0:27:53.650 --> 0:27:57.230 You know, and Jim Chalmers tells us, right, he's bragging 0:27:58.150 --> 0:28:03.680 that the underlying deficit being $ 6 billion less than their 0:28:03.680 --> 0:28:09.359 $ 28. 3 billion forecast is something to be proud about. I mean, 0:28:09.520 --> 0:28:14.350 it's still a $ 22 billion deficit that we're dealing with. 0:28:14.810 --> 0:28:18.770 And let's not forget that the $ 6 billion deficit.. that 0:28:18.830 --> 0:28:22.570 is cut from the deficit has come from aged care. 0:28:22.690 --> 0:28:26.350 It's come from the PBS. It's come from childcare. It's 0:28:26.390 --> 0:28:29.720 come from his new capital gains tax. And those are 0:28:29.760 --> 0:28:34.220 his words. He is actually proud of that. I mean, 0:28:34.720 --> 0:28:38.040 you know, we're going down the gurgler as a country. 0:28:38.500 --> 0:28:40.460 Yeah, 100%. I mean, look, this is the thing. 0:28:40.480 --> 0:28:42.000 If we owe the world a trillion dollars and we're 0:28:42.020 --> 0:28:43.860 supposed to give him a pat on the back because... 0:28:43.880 --> 0:28:46.120 The deficit this year that gets added on top of 0:28:46.180 --> 0:28:49.700 all of that is $ 6 billion better. Of course, trillion 0:28:50.400 --> 0:28:51.740 is $ 1, 000 billion. 0:28:51.740 --> 0:28:54.560 $ 6 billion of the $ 1, 000? Come on. 0:28:55.280 --> 0:28:57.200 And again, they're the ones that get to come up 0:28:57.270 --> 0:29:00.220 with the estimates. So they're able to, at these four 0:29:00.240 --> 0:29:03.470 different points of the clock, they're able to tweak. 0:29:03.250 --> 0:29:05.410 It a little higher or a little lower. 0:29:05.330 --> 0:29:10.310 To sort of set expectations and then to over-deliver compared 0:29:10.330 --> 0:29:12.410 to what those expectations are to say, hey, we're great. 0:29:12.940 --> 0:29:13.640 It's pretty simple. 0:29:13.980 --> 0:29:17.400 Trillion dollars debt, budget deficits for the next 40 years, 0:29:17.820 --> 0:29:22.070 interest rates 15 times up on their watch. What's got better? 0:29:22.610 --> 0:29:27.370 Only the number of public servants and the pay for ministers. Senator, 0:29:27.550 --> 0:29:28.890 so good to talk to you, mate. I look forward 0:29:28.910 --> 0:29:30.550 to talking to you again very soon. Kiss the ground 0:29:30.570 --> 0:29:31.430 for us in the Alice, mate. 0:29:31.470 --> 0:29:31.850 All the best. 0:29:32.510 --> 0:29:35.390 No worries. Senator Jacinta Dampage, one of the best in 0:29:35.410 --> 0:29:37.230 the parliament, so good to have her here on Paul 0:29:37.250 --> 0:29:38.310 Murray Live this Monday night. 0:29:38.530 --> 0:29:39.970 Quick break, back with more. Lots to discuss. 0:29:40.110 --> 0:29:43.070 Lots to debate, including yet another interest rate rise which 0:29:43.130 --> 0:29:47.340 is on its way. But also the changes that are 0:29:47.360 --> 0:29:51.120 coming when it comes to migration, particularly focusing in on those. 0:29:51.000 --> 0:29:52.680 That work in rural areas. 0:29:53.440 --> 0:29:56.180 I think there's something to this that not many have noticed. 0:29:56.420 --> 0:29:58.960 I will notice and mention it in a moment from now. 0:29:59.300 --> 0:30:00.360 Don't go anywhere. Thanks for watching. 0:30:05.050 --> 0:30:06.410 Thank you so much for watching. Let us get into 0:30:06.430 --> 0:30:08.530 the conversation right now. Brother from another mother, another of 0:30:08.550 --> 0:30:10.250 the wonderful Darren Barnett in the man cave. 0:30:10.290 --> 0:30:11.070 How are you, sir? 0:30:11.090 --> 0:30:11.190 Good. 0:30:11.510 --> 0:30:14.370 Senator Matt Canavan, he's joining us now, of course, from 0:30:14.650 --> 0:30:16.150 the beautiful city of Brisbane. 0:30:16.170 --> 0:30:17.030 Are you in Brisbane tonight? 0:30:19.150 --> 0:30:21.430 I sure am, Paul. Wish I was home, but no, 0:30:21.450 --> 0:30:22.090 I'm on the road again. 0:30:22.350 --> 0:30:22.690 Excellent. 0:30:22.710 --> 0:30:24.800 I'm just checking quickly by the background there, and I 0:30:24.800 --> 0:30:26.280 was looking at North Quay going, OK, yeah, I think 0:30:26.320 --> 0:30:26.490 it is. 0:30:26.560 --> 0:30:27.240 All right, good, done. 0:30:27.540 --> 0:30:31.040 So Larissa Waters is the leader of the Greens, and 0:30:31.100 --> 0:30:32.660 she is going to step down as the leader due 0:30:32.680 --> 0:30:36.060 to some health concerns that she's had, a condition that 0:30:36.080 --> 0:30:37.760 she's had for a little while that she has said 0:30:37.800 --> 0:30:38.380 on social. 0:30:38.180 --> 0:30:41.000 Media this evening is getting worse again. 0:30:41.340 --> 0:30:44.080 Look, she's not our flavour when it comes to politics, 0:30:44.120 --> 0:30:45.900 but obviously, human to human, you wish no-one worse. 0:30:46.540 --> 0:30:46.980 Ill health. 0:30:47.320 --> 0:30:48.820 No one ill will and we wish her nothing but 0:30:48.840 --> 0:30:51.440 the best with what she has to physically deal with 0:30:51.480 --> 0:30:53.479 and hope that her family, of course, are able to 0:30:53.560 --> 0:30:57.140 help her through that as fast as possible. Matt, obviously, 0:30:57.160 --> 0:30:59.480 you wouldn't agree much with a Green, but what has 0:30:59.530 --> 0:31:02.270 Larissa Waters been like to deal with? She, of course, 0:31:02.330 --> 0:31:05.690 is somebody who she plays the game hard, but is 0:31:05.710 --> 0:31:06.729 going to be stepping back. 0:31:06.790 --> 0:31:08.530 As leader due to these health concerns. 0:31:08.590 --> 0:31:10.850 So anything you want to say about a change in 0:31:10.890 --> 0:31:11.870 leadership for the Greens? 0:31:14.140 --> 0:31:17.280 Look, I always got along. I've always got along with Larissa. 0:31:17.300 --> 0:31:20.140 She's a fellow Queenslander, so we can at least agree 0:31:20.180 --> 0:31:22.940 on some things. And as you say, you know, look, 0:31:22.980 --> 0:31:25.800 I just hope her health is better. It's a bit 0:31:25.840 --> 0:31:28.740 of a bolt from the blue. I wasn't aware she 0:31:28.820 --> 0:31:31.900 had this condition, but people get on with life in 0:31:31.920 --> 0:31:35.160 this job and it's a tough job being leader, I know. 0:31:35.320 --> 0:31:39.460 And so I totally understand her decision here to take 0:31:39.510 --> 0:31:42.370 a backwards seat from the leadership and concentrate on health. 0:31:42.390 --> 0:31:45.980 So all the best with that. Look, it's a volatile 0:31:46.020 --> 0:31:51.140 time in politics for lots of political parties, including my own, 0:31:51.200 --> 0:31:54.100 but I do think in recent years the Greens have 0:31:54.140 --> 0:32:00.120 struggled a little to remain relevant. I think even from 0:32:00.140 --> 0:32:03.180 their outward campaigning, you don't hear even the Greens talk 0:32:03.220 --> 0:32:06.380 about climate change and net zero much anymore. In fact, 0:32:06.400 --> 0:32:08.479 there was an article last week in the Australian Financial 0:32:08.840 --> 0:32:12.020 Review showing there's been a massive drop-off in the number 0:32:12.040 --> 0:32:15.980 of mentions in the Parliament. on those issues. You'll typically 0:32:16.020 --> 0:32:18.560 see the Greens now campaign on things like rent control 0:32:18.700 --> 0:32:22.060 or somehow grocery prices. They want to set grocery prices. 0:32:22.080 --> 0:32:25.420 I don't know how that's going to work. But that 0:32:25.440 --> 0:32:28.310 just shows how everything's about cost of living right now. 0:32:29.010 --> 0:32:30.390 But I think a sensible way to get down the 0:32:30.410 --> 0:32:34.010 cost of living is to control government spending, show some 0:32:34.050 --> 0:32:37.489 discipline and make some tough decisions. Without that, we're not 0:32:37.510 --> 0:32:41.410 going to get anything in order soon. 0:32:41.750 --> 0:32:43.510 Darren, of course, you took over after Adam Bandt lost 0:32:43.570 --> 0:32:45.490 his seat in Melbourne, so she hasn't gone the full 0:32:45.540 --> 0:32:48.700 parliamentary cycle. That said, at a time when the Labor 0:32:48.740 --> 0:32:51.060 Party's lost a little bit of vote, when supposedly major 0:32:51.080 --> 0:32:51.570 parties are. 0:32:53.100 --> 0:32:53.740 Off the boil. 0:32:54.080 --> 0:32:57.240 The Greens haven't really surged under her leadership. Again, on 0:32:57.280 --> 0:33:00.070 a personal level, we're sure nothing but the best, but 0:33:00.830 --> 0:33:03.130 the Greens are going to need, and it'll be fascinating 0:33:03.150 --> 0:33:05.510 to see what their new leader does about how they 0:33:05.550 --> 0:33:08.590 present themselves because their number's pretty static at a time 0:33:08.650 --> 0:33:10.709 when the One Nation number has gone up. 0:33:11.390 --> 0:33:13.910 That's true, but I think the Greens vote eats into 0:33:13.950 --> 0:33:16.430 Labor rather than competes with One Nation. 0:33:16.450 --> 0:33:16.850 Of course. 0:33:17.250 --> 0:33:20.130 So they're sort of sitting on a solid 12-ish. They'll 0:33:20.150 --> 0:33:24.580 probably stay there. Look, Larissa Waters, to the very best 0:33:24.620 --> 0:33:27.140 of my knowledge, was good to deal with. And I 0:33:27.180 --> 0:33:30.030 think the government has been quite happy with her leadership 0:33:30.070 --> 0:33:33.150 in the Greens, whether it's the EPBC changes, some of 0:33:33.190 --> 0:33:37.410 the land-clearing stuff. They've probably got more done than they 0:33:37.450 --> 0:33:39.410 might have anticipated, certainly more than they would have got 0:33:39.450 --> 0:33:42.690 done if Maureen Faruqi had been successful for the leadership. 0:33:42.790 --> 0:33:49.090 So Labor, I think, would be disappointed. Obviously, health-related, everyone wishes... Yeah, 0:33:49.110 --> 0:33:51.810 Senator Waters, all the best, but things might become a 0:33:51.810 --> 0:33:54.190 little bit difficult for Labor. At the moment, they can 0:33:54.230 --> 0:33:56.700 go one way or the other to get things through 0:33:56.720 --> 0:33:59.320 the parliament, and one of those two avenues might become 0:33:59.340 --> 0:33:59.880 a little tougher. 0:34:00.080 --> 0:34:01.800 Yeah, Faruqi, I think he's one of the deputy leaders. 0:34:01.820 --> 0:34:02.880 There's a couple of deputy leaders. 0:34:02.940 --> 0:34:05.740 I think he stood for leader against Larissa Waters last time. 0:34:05.920 --> 0:34:07.830 But also important to note for everyone, right, as much 0:34:07.870 --> 0:34:10.190 as the Greens bang on and on about democracy and 0:34:10.210 --> 0:34:14.170 want to point at everyone else's political process, there's... the 0:34:14.310 --> 0:34:16.839 most secret inside the Parliament, right, is that you don't 0:34:16.920 --> 0:34:21.339 know about how the room votes. Again, previous leadership deals, 0:34:21.360 --> 0:34:23.350 we've woken up and there's just been a transition and 0:34:23.390 --> 0:34:24.310 that's the way that it is. 0:34:24.670 --> 0:34:26.100 Anyway, all the best to you. 0:34:26.110 --> 0:34:29.960 We've never seen the coalition deal between the No. Everyone's 0:34:29.980 --> 0:34:30.580 got their secrets. 0:34:30.760 --> 0:34:31.960 No, no, never, never. 0:34:32.000 --> 0:34:33.920 And I don't think One Nation needs to have party 0:34:34.280 --> 0:34:37.239 meetings to work out who their leader is in perpetuity, 0:34:37.280 --> 0:34:38.980 and I think for life, according to the Constitution. 0:34:39.060 --> 0:34:39.359 All right. 0:34:39.640 --> 0:34:42.700 So, Matt, let's talk about the backpacker visa stuff. Now, 0:34:42.780 --> 0:34:45.770 I think the Labor Party, in not changing anything in 0:34:45.810 --> 0:34:48.790 the overall, have turned around and gone, OK, what's an 0:34:48.890 --> 0:34:51.650 area that's not going to affect the seats that traditionally 0:34:51.770 --> 0:34:54.489 are voting for us or might go somewhere else, but 0:34:54.950 --> 0:34:58.030 Definitely it's not really going to be eating into their pie. 0:34:58.130 --> 0:35:00.359 Oh, surprise, backpacker visas, right? 0:35:00.719 --> 0:35:03.400 So it ends up that the agricultural and tourism sectors 0:35:03.700 --> 0:35:06.180 that largely are outside of those major cities that don't 0:35:06.219 --> 0:35:09.759 vote Labor, that's where the cut's going to happen. How 0:35:09.840 --> 0:35:12.180 politically surgical do you think this is? And it's an 0:35:12.239 --> 0:35:14.440 attempt to wedge people who say, we've got to do 0:35:14.460 --> 0:35:16.779 something about migration, just not that migration. 0:35:19.430 --> 0:35:20.090 I think you're 100% spot on, Paul. 0:35:23.780 --> 0:35:28.339 The Labor Party are ruthless and they are ruthlessly putting 0:35:28.380 --> 0:35:31.820 a stake through the heart of many businesses in regional areas. Now, 0:35:32.100 --> 0:35:35.230 even this political ploy, though, is not paying off for Labor. 0:35:36.010 --> 0:35:39.910 Their migration policy is in complete disarray. Just a week 0:35:40.170 --> 0:35:44.580 after Tony Burke appeared at the press club, the government 0:35:44.600 --> 0:35:46.420 had to announce that... Well, actually, I don't know if 0:35:46.460 --> 0:35:50.330 they have announced it, But we know that the government 0:35:50.350 --> 0:35:54.150 has put in place a parallel process where the National 0:35:54.190 --> 0:35:58.370 Farmers Federation can highlight to the government which farms need 0:35:58.750 --> 0:36:02.960 which visas when. Because the government is now in complete 0:36:03.040 --> 0:36:09.330 panic that food may go rotten on the vines. if 0:36:09.790 --> 0:36:13.950 visas are not approved within weeks. My colleagues Anne Webster 0:36:14.030 --> 0:36:16.590 and Sam Birrell from Northern Victoria have been banging the 0:36:16.610 --> 0:36:20.730 drum about this for a month or so, and finally 0:36:20.750 --> 0:36:22.989 the government has put in this parallel process. But it's 0:36:23.350 --> 0:36:25.859 a ridiculous idea. Why does the NFF have to do 0:36:25.890 --> 0:36:30.680 this now? Shouldn't the government be under control of who 0:36:30.719 --> 0:36:33.080 gets visas where and make sure our food gets picked? 0:36:34.190 --> 0:36:36.489 The same thing's happening for tourism businesses and they're being 0:36:36.530 --> 0:36:40.509 left completely high and dry. And this was not a 0:36:40.570 --> 0:36:43.410 problem before the government decided to come along that they 0:36:43.450 --> 0:36:47.390 were here and could help. The backpacker visa system had 0:36:47.410 --> 0:36:49.160 been working well in our country. It is not the 0:36:49.219 --> 0:36:52.660 reason for the surge in numbers. But as you say, 0:36:52.739 --> 0:36:55.160 politics here, the government just can't seem to tackle the 0:36:55.200 --> 0:36:57.980 student visa scam. That is a major issue with our 0:36:58.020 --> 0:36:58.800 migration programs. 0:36:59.110 --> 0:37:01.640 Yeah, I mean, you know how these things work here, Darren. 0:37:01.660 --> 0:37:03.900 Do you think that someone somewhere in Tony Burke's office 0:37:03.920 --> 0:37:05.799 turns around and says, you know what, you know how 0:37:05.840 --> 0:37:08.140 the One Nation, the Nats, the Libs, everyone but us 0:37:08.160 --> 0:37:10.520 says we've got to cut immigration? Well, what's the form 0:37:10.540 --> 0:37:12.820 of it that's really going to get at those people 0:37:13.400 --> 0:37:16.200 to try to create some sort of reverse wedge here? 0:37:16.219 --> 0:37:17.259 Because of all of the. 0:37:17.180 --> 0:37:23.030 Things to cut, the stuff that automatically results in farms, 0:37:23.190 --> 0:37:27.370 pretty obvious that you're trying to wedge country politicians on this, 0:37:27.430 --> 0:37:27.690 aren't you? 0:37:27.950 --> 0:37:28.390 Well, look. 0:37:28.680 --> 0:37:30.660 I think the result's the same, whether it's a wedge 0:37:30.739 --> 0:37:33.359 or whether it's a path of least resistance. And they 0:37:33.380 --> 0:37:34.719 would look at it and say, well, we haven't got 0:37:34.739 --> 0:37:38.830 anything to lose politically. Therefore, whether it's a concerted effort, 0:37:39.770 --> 0:37:42.489 who knows? But the result's exactly the same. So I'll 0:37:42.510 --> 0:37:45.770 take Matt's advice, given he's from the National Party, that 0:37:46.270 --> 0:37:49.580 it's a very important part of regional economies and that 0:37:49.620 --> 0:37:50.420 needs to be addressed. 0:37:50.960 --> 0:37:53.819 Let's talk about social media powers and here we go again, right? 0:37:53.860 --> 0:37:55.380 Now, this absurdity. 0:37:55.950 --> 0:37:58.860 of the eSafety Karen that is going to be running 0:37:58.880 --> 0:38:02.400 around using sock puppets, right, as part of the whole 0:38:02.880 --> 0:38:05.200 pushback on misinformation. 0:38:05.239 --> 0:38:06.260 It's beyond ludicrous. 0:38:06.300 --> 0:38:08.819 But, again, at the heart of these things remains, and 0:38:08.860 --> 0:38:10.609 it has been incredible to watch over the past couple 0:38:10.620 --> 0:38:14.190 of weeks, just the gaslighting. And gaslighting is a polite 0:38:14.210 --> 0:38:16.430 term for bullshitting, okay? It's just I don't like to 0:38:16.730 --> 0:38:18.190 use the BS as much as I used to in 0:38:18.210 --> 0:38:21.069 the past. But a few people have asked me, that's. 0:38:20.790 --> 0:38:21.589 What it means, all right? 0:38:22.230 --> 0:38:26.070 And this scenario of, well, hang on, why should the 0:38:26.110 --> 0:38:28.759 minister have the individual power to decide what they consider 0:38:28.780 --> 0:38:31.480 to be harmful above everything else that's been listed as harmful? 0:38:32.560 --> 0:38:35.919 The duty of care, it's just a completely different answer, right? 0:38:36.320 --> 0:38:37.880 And for some reason, they never follow up with the 0:38:37.900 --> 0:38:40.910 second question. But what about the sock puppets, Senator? 0:38:43.690 --> 0:38:46.450 Well, I'll just read to you, Paul. I don't have 0:38:46.489 --> 0:38:48.090 it in front of me, but I've got it in memory. 0:38:48.469 --> 0:38:52.049 Section 205J says, of the Digital Duty of Care Bill says, 0:38:52.840 --> 0:38:54.640 Commissioner may use sock puppets. 0:38:54.660 --> 0:38:57.860 I mean, that's the title. 0:38:57.880 --> 0:39:00.640 That's the title of the section. And I'm just wondering, 0:39:00.680 --> 0:39:02.840 is there another section where she can use burner accounts? 0:39:03.340 --> 0:39:07.130 Is there another section where she can go on late-night tirades, 0:39:07.650 --> 0:39:10.430 you know, so-and-so posting all over online? 0:39:10.630 --> 0:39:10.989 It's so stupid. 0:39:11.010 --> 0:39:13.819 I mean, what the hell is going on here? Why 0:39:13.860 --> 0:39:17.640 do you need a whole section of a law to 0:39:17.960 --> 0:39:22.800 allow for a government agency, one person in fact, to 0:39:23.310 --> 0:39:26.890 have sock puppets? Look, I think this raises a broader question. 0:39:26.930 --> 0:39:28.469 We can laugh about this, Paul. We can laugh about it. 0:39:28.550 --> 0:39:29.950 No, but it matters. Come on, let's go. 0:39:30.040 --> 0:39:32.140 Bit missing in this whole debate, it does matter, and 0:39:32.200 --> 0:39:33.420 one thing that's gone a little bit missing in this 0:39:33.440 --> 0:39:35.560 whole debate is do you know last year there was 0:39:35.580 --> 0:39:40.550 an independent review of the eSafety Commissioner, a government commissioned review, 0:39:40.750 --> 0:39:43.870 and that review found that eSafety Commissioners should be abolished 0:39:44.290 --> 0:39:47.470 and replaced with a panel. Now, that's sort of gone 0:39:47.489 --> 0:39:50.490 a little bit under the radar, but to my mind, 0:39:50.810 --> 0:39:53.840 this whole issue raises why is this one person getting 0:39:53.920 --> 0:39:57.439 so much power and authority? Keep in mind, not only 0:39:57.520 --> 0:40:00.350 can the Commissioner, this one person, use these sock puppets, 0:40:01.290 --> 0:40:02.969 they are then, in the next section of the Act, 0:40:03.469 --> 0:40:08.620 given immunity. for any action against her use of the 0:40:08.660 --> 0:40:13.060 sock puppets online. And I think we're getting to the 0:40:13.080 --> 0:40:15.419 heart of why that independent review found that maybe just 0:40:15.560 --> 0:40:17.760 putting all this power in one person is a bad idea, 0:40:17.780 --> 0:40:20.989 an unelected person, and perhaps we should go back to 0:40:21.030 --> 0:40:23.989 that recommendation, back to that report, and think about this 0:40:24.030 --> 0:40:25.790 whole thing being abolished and we start again. 0:40:25.810 --> 0:40:29.770 My understanding is it's not just the eSafety Commissioner that 0:40:30.250 --> 0:40:35.089 approved academics can also create... sock puppet accounts. Sadly, they 0:40:35.110 --> 0:40:36.450 don't actually have to have a sock puppet. 0:40:36.510 --> 0:40:37.149 Yes, yes, yes. 0:40:37.190 --> 0:40:39.870 But they can come up. The idea is so that 0:40:39.890 --> 0:40:43.370 you could test, you know, whether the system is working, 0:40:43.690 --> 0:40:48.400 but there probably should be a more verifiable way with 0:40:48.440 --> 0:40:52.060 tighter rules and maybe spy agencies run it rather than 0:40:52.420 --> 0:40:53.340 the safety commissioner. 0:40:53.660 --> 0:40:56.279 I think, again, sort of the literal definition of what 0:40:56.680 --> 0:40:59.560 essentially the burner or fake accounts that are there. All right, 0:40:59.580 --> 0:41:00.900 I'm going to put you guys into overtime in a 0:41:00.920 --> 0:41:02.799 moment or two's time. Lots more to discuss with the 0:41:02.840 --> 0:41:04.980 panel in a moment here on Paul Murray Live. Of course, 0:41:05.100 --> 0:41:06.700 as always, we finish up with a little bit of 0:41:07.640 --> 0:41:10.469 what they were doing while you were working. More in 0:41:10.489 --> 0:41:16.759 a sec here on Paul Murray Live. Thank you very 0:41:16.800 --> 0:41:17.239 much for watching. 0:41:17.260 --> 0:41:19.300 We're going live to London in a moment or two's time. 0:41:19.340 --> 0:41:22.360 Sorry, the tin cans weren't spun together properly. So we 0:41:22.380 --> 0:41:23.600 will get to that in a second. In the meantime, 0:41:23.620 --> 0:41:25.339 we're in Brisbane. We're in the man cave right now. 0:41:25.640 --> 0:41:28.319 Darren Barnett and Matt Canavan. A couple of quick ones 0:41:28.360 --> 0:41:33.069 before we finish here. There is a fascinating obsession, of course, 0:41:33.110 --> 0:41:35.890 that the Guardian has with One Nation, and they love 0:41:35.930 --> 0:41:38.310 to get inside the ins and outs of the way 0:41:38.350 --> 0:41:42.089 that it works. But they seem to have got some 0:41:42.130 --> 0:41:44.890 sort of text exchange with somebody who's high ranking in 0:41:44.910 --> 0:41:48.880 the leadership of One Nation, mouthing off apparently at the 0:41:48.900 --> 0:41:53.400 time about David Farley. Now, Matt, I often get accused 0:41:53.460 --> 0:41:56.339 of not discussing these things, so I'm going to directly here. 0:41:56.400 --> 0:41:57.620 What do you think of this story? 0:41:57.739 --> 0:42:00.360 And again, part of the message that they are sending 0:42:00.440 --> 0:42:01.920 back to the political figures is. 0:42:01.940 --> 0:42:04.800 Hey, someone in your team is leaking. 0:42:05.200 --> 0:42:09.900 But that level of inside detail normally starts to rattle 0:42:10.300 --> 0:42:10.840 a few people. 0:42:13.320 --> 0:42:15.549 Well, look, I'd be pretty concerned if I was in 0:42:15.640 --> 0:42:18.390 One Nation and these sort of leaks were occurring because 0:42:18.450 --> 0:42:23.250 obviously these messages were private ones meant to pretty senior 0:42:23.290 --> 0:42:27.580 people within One Nation. That'll cause fingers to be pointed. 0:42:27.840 --> 0:42:30.320 I mean, I was there on the ground, obviously, often. 0:42:30.340 --> 0:42:33.980 So the messages don't surprise me because there was an 0:42:34.160 --> 0:42:39.969 enormous amount of consternation about Mr Farley's and that campaign, 0:42:40.410 --> 0:42:42.529 it just seemed everything was a drama and everything is 0:42:42.570 --> 0:42:44.230 a drama with One Nation. I sort of coined it 0:42:44.250 --> 0:42:47.770 in terms of drama nation. And, look, I know and understand, 0:42:47.790 --> 0:42:51.549 you know, the attraction to different things right now, particularly 0:42:51.570 --> 0:42:55.200 given what our country is going through. But we will 0:42:55.219 --> 0:42:58.380 need a government to run things eventually. And if you 0:42:58.420 --> 0:43:00.779 can't run your own organisation and you're having these sort 0:43:00.800 --> 0:43:03.239 of dramas, that's calling the question, how are you going 0:43:03.260 --> 0:43:04.260 to go if you get the keys. 0:43:04.080 --> 0:43:04.480 To the lodge? 0:43:04.930 --> 0:43:08.029 Speaking of the Turnbull Times, they wrote a whole piece 0:43:08.070 --> 0:43:12.310 about how much the President swears. Too much swearing, apparently, 0:43:12.650 --> 0:43:15.730 from Donald Trump. Now, I can swear like a sailor 0:43:15.750 --> 0:43:16.989 with the best of them. I do my best to 0:43:17.010 --> 0:43:18.330 pull it back on telly and I think I've done 0:43:18.350 --> 0:43:19.530 OK the past couple of years. 0:43:19.880 --> 0:43:21.740 I couldn't care less. But do you think the position 0:43:21.780 --> 0:43:22.680 of President should. 0:43:22.560 --> 0:43:26.219 Be above these things or it's just a reality of 0:43:26.280 --> 0:43:28.620 how a person actually is? 0:43:29.219 --> 0:43:31.680 What I think is funny is that at first it 0:43:31.760 --> 0:43:34.800 was just slipping out the odd verbal, but now it's written... 0:43:35.260 --> 0:43:37.860 when he puts it into his little truth social posts. 0:43:38.739 --> 0:43:40.180 You really mean it when you write it down? 0:43:40.380 --> 0:43:42.360 I think it's probably a little bit unbecoming, to be honest, 0:43:42.500 --> 0:43:45.879 for a majority of voters. Personally, it doesn't bother me, 0:43:45.940 --> 0:43:49.560 but if I was advising the PM or someone else, 0:43:49.940 --> 0:43:52.120 I'd keep that blue language to a minimum. 0:43:52.300 --> 0:43:52.819 Yeah, all right. 0:43:52.840 --> 0:43:55.090 Well, save it for the documentary. Lads, I do appreciate it. 0:43:55.100 --> 0:43:56.620 Thank you very much. We've got it all working now, 0:43:56.640 --> 0:43:58.180 so we'll go off to the UK in a moment 0:43:58.200 --> 0:43:59.940 or two's time here on Paul Murray Live. Thank you 0:43:59.960 --> 0:44:01.520 so much for watching, wherever you happen to be. You 0:44:01.540 --> 0:44:03.319 can always send me an email, paul at news24. 0:44:03.120 --> 0:44:03.520 Com. au. 0:44:08.890 --> 0:44:10.790 Let's check in with our mate Leila Cullingham, who would 0:44:10.830 --> 0:44:12.870 like to be the next Lord Mayor of London. Hopefully 0:44:12.890 --> 0:44:14.640 she'll do it via the Reform Party ticket, and she 0:44:14.660 --> 0:44:17.200 joins us now from the capital of the UK right now. 0:44:17.300 --> 0:44:19.680 Lovely to see you, Leila. How have you been? How 0:44:19.700 --> 0:44:20.800 have you been? I've been great. 0:44:20.860 --> 0:44:22.120 How are you down under? 0:44:22.160 --> 0:44:24.020 We're doing our best. All the better for seeing you. 0:44:24.120 --> 0:44:26.080 So we just saw a flash there on our screen 0:44:26.460 --> 0:44:30.130 about this terror plot that a farmer started to notice 0:44:30.170 --> 0:44:34.089 things as we were getting closer to that RAF Fairford base. This, 0:44:34.130 --> 0:44:35.770 of course, was the base that the US was using 0:44:35.810 --> 0:44:39.250 in part to try to launch things against Iran. Yet again, 0:44:39.270 --> 0:44:43.330 a reminder about the threat that lives within your beautiful country, Leila. 0:44:44.770 --> 0:44:46.650 Well, I mean, we've heard, actually, they've said today that 0:44:46.670 --> 0:44:49.750 they were British nationals, which sadly in this day and 0:44:49.770 --> 0:44:52.550 age doesn't mean much. But, you know, we've had a 0:44:52.590 --> 0:44:56.230 longstanding agreement that was done by our government and our 0:44:56.250 --> 0:44:59.320 secret services to kind of allow Islamists into the country 0:44:59.660 --> 0:45:01.020 and operate from our country. 0:45:01.680 --> 0:45:03.739 It was called a covenant of security. 0:45:03.260 --> 0:45:04.600 And it was arranged in the early 90s where people 0:45:05.840 --> 0:45:08.060 they could almost seek refugee and asylum as long as 0:45:08.080 --> 0:45:11.620 they promised not to commit offences on our shores. Imagine that. 0:45:13.290 --> 0:45:14.890 I don't know if you remember, we had a terrorist 0:45:14.910 --> 0:45:17.370 called Abu Hamza who had a hook, quite scary looking. 0:45:18.489 --> 0:45:21.270 And he testified to that in court. And it was 0:45:21.330 --> 0:45:22.870 kind of, you know, we'll let you be here. Just 0:45:23.760 --> 0:45:27.520 don't do anything on our turf. And now the chickens 0:45:27.560 --> 0:45:29.300 are coming to roost from that kind of policy. 0:45:29.340 --> 0:45:30.260 You don't trust terrorists. 0:45:30.380 --> 0:45:32.780 You don't trust Islamic terrorists who want to destroy the West. 0:45:34.020 --> 0:45:34.940 But we have allowed. 0:45:35.530 --> 0:45:39.149 Islamism and the Muslim Brotherhood, who's not a prescribed organization here. 0:45:39.330 --> 0:45:41.430 I'm not saying it is, by the way, this. Of course. 0:45:42.090 --> 0:45:45.200 But you will see other types because we've allowed people 0:45:45.560 --> 0:45:47.980 who not only don't tolerate Britain, but want to destroy 0:45:48.020 --> 0:45:50.560 Britain to live in our country and to live off 0:45:50.580 --> 0:45:55.190 the country. I don't know who these guys are, and 0:45:55.210 --> 0:45:57.830 I'm not guessing, but on another note, in terms of 0:45:58.110 --> 0:46:00.150 the danger and the people we're allowing into the country, 0:46:00.530 --> 0:46:01.540 that is one aspect of it. 0:46:01.770 --> 0:46:03.730 No, completely, completely important. 0:46:03.930 --> 0:46:06.049 That is, again, as you say, the overall background about 0:46:06.110 --> 0:46:08.169 what is happening right now. The specifics we'll all learn 0:46:08.489 --> 0:46:11.230 in the next little while. Sadiq Khan, the man who 0:46:11.250 --> 0:46:13.969 you'd like to defeat as the Mayor of London, he 0:46:14.010 --> 0:46:16.589 wants Andy Burnham to think about the UK going back 0:46:16.730 --> 0:46:17.590 into the EU. 0:46:18.670 --> 0:46:19.669 Would you love that fight? 0:46:21.900 --> 0:46:23.879 So I think what Labour don't understand, so they keep 0:46:23.920 --> 0:46:27.759 making the economic argument for the Brexit, but it was 0:46:27.800 --> 0:46:31.200 a constitutional vote. It was a vote to get back control. 0:46:31.320 --> 0:46:33.260 It was a vote to control who came into our country. 0:46:33.700 --> 0:46:37.040 It was a vote for me to be able to 0:46:37.400 --> 0:46:40.120 elect the person who makes laws that control my life. 0:46:40.700 --> 0:46:42.489 And that only done through Parliament. Because as you know, 0:46:42.510 --> 0:46:48.010 the EU Commission is unelected and kind of like operates 0:46:48.050 --> 0:46:51.330 by decree. And that didn't sit well with me. And 0:46:51.450 --> 0:46:54.130 it was, you know, we were given huge freedoms as 0:46:54.210 --> 0:46:57.470 a country back, you know, regulatory freedom, freedom to control 0:46:57.489 --> 0:46:59.970 who comes to our border, freedom to trade with whoever 0:47:00.010 --> 0:47:02.640 we wanted and freedom to write our own laws. Sadly, 0:47:02.680 --> 0:47:05.240 we've had successive governments that haven't utilised those freedoms. 0:47:05.480 --> 0:47:06.460 They've almost been lazy. 0:47:08.620 --> 0:47:11.420 And so people do feel discontent, actually, with the way 0:47:11.460 --> 0:47:15.339 Brexit turned out. And I think Andy Burnham is going 0:47:15.360 --> 0:47:18.880 to put it in his next manifesto. kind of to 0:47:18.900 --> 0:47:21.040 make it as a referendum on Brexit. That's my hunch, 0:47:21.080 --> 0:47:25.029 because they're slowly trickle-feeding, blaming everything on Brexit, which doesn't 0:47:25.050 --> 0:47:25.469 make sense. 0:47:25.969 --> 0:47:26.730 That's what they're doing. 0:47:27.110 --> 0:47:29.640 Also, under the guise of big and bold leadership, there's 0:47:29.660 --> 0:47:31.500 the Labour conference happening right now. You see it was 0:47:31.520 --> 0:47:35.500 floating on the BBC. over the weekend, essentially sort of 0:47:35.540 --> 0:47:39.990 a second version of the NHS. This one specifically focused 0:47:40.030 --> 0:47:42.669 in and around aged care. His father died, I think, 0:47:42.710 --> 0:47:46.890 in the past couple of weeks. But, yeah, big spending 0:47:46.950 --> 0:47:49.390 is not the way to save a government and an 0:47:49.469 --> 0:47:50.840 economy that's sinking, is it? 0:47:52.530 --> 0:47:54.719 No, but, you know, he's basically going to have to 0:47:54.760 --> 0:47:58.339 call an election to raise taxes because they don't want 0:47:58.360 --> 0:47:59.219 to cut the welfare bill. 0:48:00.219 --> 0:48:00.319 And. 0:48:01.210 --> 0:48:03.310 I think if you get enough people dependent on welfare, 0:48:03.370 --> 0:48:06.589 perhaps they think it guarantees them a perpetual electoral win. 0:48:06.830 --> 0:48:07.250 Correct. 0:48:08.070 --> 0:48:09.469 Yeah, I talk about this all the time as the 0:48:09.750 --> 0:48:12.109 triangle of dependence, right? They want you to work for 0:48:12.130 --> 0:48:14.310 the government, be dependent on the government, or if you're business, 0:48:14.610 --> 0:48:16.310 the biggest client is the government. 0:48:16.350 --> 0:48:18.720 Leila, lovely to see you. Follow her on the socials. 0:48:18.780 --> 0:48:21.120 She's a dynamo. We love her. She's the next Lord 0:48:21.140 --> 0:48:23.790 Mayor of London. Good on her. Thank you, Leila. She's 0:48:23.810 --> 0:48:24.089 the best. 0:48:24.290 --> 0:48:25.670 All right, that's our show for tonight. Thank you very 0:48:25.690 --> 0:48:27.989 much for watching. Again, thanks to everyone who joined us 0:48:28.030 --> 0:48:29.969 in Bathurst. It was a great time. It was a 0:48:30.030 --> 0:48:32.360 fun time. I don't think I'll ever forget falling in 0:48:32.380 --> 0:48:34.299 the pool again, but that's what we do for the 0:48:34.380 --> 0:48:36.660 sponsors that we love, and we love Harvey Norman and 0:48:36.700 --> 0:48:39.620 the support of Our Town and particularly Paul Murray Live 0:48:39.640 --> 0:48:40.170 here on News 24. 0:48:40.160 --> 0:48:43.529 We'll see you again tomorrow. Here is The Late Debate.