1 00:00:03,900 --> 00:00:07,260 Sean Aylmer: Welcome to the Fear and Greed daily interview. I'm Sean Aylmer. There's 2 00:00:07,260 --> 00:00:11,309 Sean Aylmer: a shift happening among equity investors at the moment. According 3 00:00:11,309 --> 00:00:15,209 Sean Aylmer: to share trading platform Stake, more people are moving from 4 00:00:15,210 --> 00:00:18,840 Sean Aylmer: active to passive investing, or at least including index funds 5 00:00:18,840 --> 00:00:21,540 Sean Aylmer: in their portfolios. Let's take a look at what else 6 00:00:21,540 --> 00:00:23,550 Sean Aylmer: investors are buying, both here and in the US, and 7 00:00:23,550 --> 00:00:26,160 Sean Aylmer: what trends we might expect from the next 12 months. 8 00:00:26,160 --> 00:00:29,249 Sean Aylmer: Remember, this is general information only and you should seek 9 00:00:29,250 --> 00:00:33,598 Sean Aylmer: professional advice before making investment decisions. Matthew Leibowitz is the co- 10 00:00:33,598 --> 00:00:36,629 Sean Aylmer: founder and CEO of Stake, which is a great supporter of 11 00:00:36,629 --> 00:00:38,699 Sean Aylmer: this podcast. Matt, welcome back to Fear and Greed. 12 00:00:39,240 --> 00:00:40,530 Matthew Leibowitz: Cheers, Sean. Thanks for having me. 13 00:00:41,280 --> 00:00:43,920 Sean Aylmer: Passive investing, that sort of surprises me to be honest 14 00:00:43,920 --> 00:00:44,490 Sean Aylmer: at the moment. 15 00:00:45,059 --> 00:00:48,120 Matthew Leibowitz: Yeah, I think so. But look, I guess what happens over 16 00:00:48,120 --> 00:00:50,580 Matthew Leibowitz: the last sort of two years with the markets, I 17 00:00:50,580 --> 00:00:52,799 Matthew Leibowitz: think people have become engaged with it and now are 18 00:00:52,799 --> 00:00:55,260 Matthew Leibowitz: sort of seeing that it's not always a bull market, 19 00:00:55,260 --> 00:00:57,240 Matthew Leibowitz: so you've got to sort of adjust your strategy and 20 00:00:57,240 --> 00:00:59,640 Matthew Leibowitz: people are starting to do that. I think there's always people 21 00:00:59,640 --> 00:01:01,530 Matthew Leibowitz: out there that are sort of picking the eyes out 22 00:01:01,530 --> 00:01:03,690 Matthew Leibowitz: of particular stocks, but there's also a bit of a 23 00:01:03,690 --> 00:01:07,110 Matthew Leibowitz: movement more towards sort of recurring investments and just keeping 24 00:01:07,110 --> 00:01:09,839 Matthew Leibowitz: a very simple strategy that sort of rides the rollercoaster 25 00:01:09,839 --> 00:01:10,740 Matthew Leibowitz: a little bit more smoothly. 26 00:01:11,309 --> 00:01:13,800 Sean Aylmer: Okay. So when we talk about passive and active investing, 27 00:01:13,800 --> 00:01:16,680 Sean Aylmer: we're talking about sticking to a benchmark, it might be 28 00:01:16,680 --> 00:01:19,230 Sean Aylmer: the S& P 200 or top 20 stocks, and that's 29 00:01:19,230 --> 00:01:21,659 Sean Aylmer: kind of what you're buying. Active is more kind of 30 00:01:21,660 --> 00:01:23,910 Sean Aylmer: trying to beat the market, shall we say, that's in 31 00:01:23,910 --> 00:01:28,649 Sean Aylmer: very layman's terms, Matt. Is it because there's this uncertainty 32 00:01:28,650 --> 00:01:32,220 Sean Aylmer: around the place at the moment, that many investors are thinking, " 33 00:01:32,220 --> 00:01:33,870 Sean Aylmer: Oh, let's just do what the market does?" 34 00:01:34,620 --> 00:01:36,690 Matthew Leibowitz: I don't really know. I mean, everyone's really different and 35 00:01:36,690 --> 00:01:39,240 Matthew Leibowitz: everyone's got their own strategies as to what they do. 36 00:01:39,240 --> 00:01:42,690 Matthew Leibowitz: I think what we've seen, at least in Australia particularly, 37 00:01:42,690 --> 00:01:45,450 Matthew Leibowitz: is the fact that property is so hard to reach, 38 00:01:45,450 --> 00:01:48,690 Matthew Leibowitz: equities have become a new platform for people to grow 39 00:01:48,690 --> 00:01:51,060 Matthew Leibowitz: their wealth. And it can get... There's a lot of 40 00:01:51,060 --> 00:01:55,140 Matthew Leibowitz: stocks to pick and you've got 2000 or 500 names in Australia, you've got the 41 00:01:55,140 --> 00:01:57,840 Matthew Leibowitz: six to 15,000 in the US if you go all the 42 00:01:57,840 --> 00:01:59,940 Matthew Leibowitz: way down the OTC chain. So it can get pretty 43 00:01:59,940 --> 00:02:02,249 Matthew Leibowitz: difficult. So people just try to keep it simple. And 44 00:02:02,250 --> 00:02:05,819 Matthew Leibowitz: a recurring simple way to stay in the market, stay 45 00:02:05,820 --> 00:02:08,639 Matthew Leibowitz: invested and treat it like a savings plan, has become 46 00:02:08,639 --> 00:02:09,209 Matthew Leibowitz: pretty popular. 47 00:02:09,840 --> 00:02:12,270 Sean Aylmer: Okay. So in terms of how people are engaging with 48 00:02:12,270 --> 00:02:15,299 Sean Aylmer: the market at the moment, given the turmoil we've seen, 49 00:02:15,300 --> 00:02:18,059 Sean Aylmer: certainly in 2022 and then it bounced earlier in the 50 00:02:18,059 --> 00:02:20,969 Sean Aylmer: year, then it's come back a bit, are people more 51 00:02:20,969 --> 00:02:23,400 Sean Aylmer: or less engaged than normal, would you say, at the moment? 52 00:02:23,790 --> 00:02:26,639 Matthew Leibowitz: Yeah, I think people are... Well, I mean think obviously, we had a real 53 00:02:26,639 --> 00:02:29,010 Matthew Leibowitz: big spike during Covid. I don't think we're going to 54 00:02:29,010 --> 00:02:31,139 Matthew Leibowitz: see those, that sort of level of engagement again, just 55 00:02:31,139 --> 00:02:32,669 Matthew Leibowitz: because people are sort of back at work and back 56 00:02:32,669 --> 00:02:35,310 Matthew Leibowitz: living their lives outside their own four walls at home. 57 00:02:35,880 --> 00:02:37,469 Matthew Leibowitz: But people are still naturally engaged. I think that was 58 00:02:37,469 --> 00:02:40,138 Matthew Leibowitz: a bit of a watershed moment for self- directed investors, 59 00:02:40,139 --> 00:02:42,750 Matthew Leibowitz: that you can do it yourself, it is accessible. And 60 00:02:42,750 --> 00:02:44,010 Matthew Leibowitz: that there are a lot of people out there that 61 00:02:44,010 --> 00:02:47,220 Matthew Leibowitz: manage their own money ultimately. So we're still seeing at 62 00:02:47,220 --> 00:02:50,549 Matthew Leibowitz: Stake levels of engagement that are higher and people's strategies 63 00:02:50,550 --> 00:02:53,040 Matthew Leibowitz: are shifting. And obviously, with interest rates moving a bit, 64 00:02:53,460 --> 00:02:55,559 Matthew Leibowitz: people's appetite to invest changes a little bit, and how 65 00:02:55,559 --> 00:02:57,508 Matthew Leibowitz: they invest has changed. But people still want to be 66 00:02:57,508 --> 00:03:00,539 Matthew Leibowitz: in the market, they're still really hungry for information. And you've always 67 00:03:00,570 --> 00:03:03,510 Matthew Leibowitz: got people that really like stock picking, that's something they 68 00:03:03,510 --> 00:03:05,639 Matthew Leibowitz: enjoy, they like doing the analysis. There are other people 69 00:03:05,639 --> 00:03:07,980 Matthew Leibowitz: that, as we've spoken about, want to invest more passively. 70 00:03:08,309 --> 00:03:10,769 Matthew Leibowitz: Some people invest passively in stocks they know, they choose 71 00:03:11,219 --> 00:03:14,190 Matthew Leibowitz: Amazon or Tesla or Facebook or something they understand and just want 72 00:03:14,190 --> 00:03:16,230 Matthew Leibowitz: to be in the market. So people are still going 73 00:03:16,230 --> 00:03:18,090 Matthew Leibowitz: to invest. I think that's a thematic we're going to 74 00:03:18,090 --> 00:03:20,580 Matthew Leibowitz: see continue. Whereas Covid was sort of a thing that sort 75 00:03:20,580 --> 00:03:22,230 Matthew Leibowitz: of pushed people over the line and showed them how 76 00:03:22,230 --> 00:03:22,650 Matthew Leibowitz: to do it. 77 00:03:23,250 --> 00:03:26,040 Sean Aylmer: Okay. So let's talk about some specific stocks that people 78 00:03:26,040 --> 00:03:30,840 Sean Aylmer: are trading at. We talk plenty about artificial intelligence on 79 00:03:30,840 --> 00:03:33,989 Sean Aylmer: Fear and Greed. Nvidia of course is the chipmaker, which 80 00:03:34,020 --> 00:03:36,660 Sean Aylmer: has high- end chips, which are often used in AI 81 00:03:37,860 --> 00:03:41,670 Sean Aylmer: mechanics. Nvidia, what is it, the fifth- largest stock on 82 00:03:41,670 --> 00:03:44,580 Sean Aylmer: Wall Street. They're not quite the household name of Alphabet 83 00:03:45,270 --> 00:03:48,720 Sean Aylmer: and Apple and Microsoft. Are people buying Nvidia? 84 00:03:49,200 --> 00:03:52,350 Matthew Leibowitz: Yeah, it's been a major pickup across the AI names 85 00:03:52,350 --> 00:03:56,400 Matthew Leibowitz: and the chip companies. They've also been playing that thematic 86 00:03:56,400 --> 00:03:58,410 Matthew Leibowitz: through some of the ETFs. You can actually buy ETFs 87 00:03:58,410 --> 00:03:59,940 Matthew Leibowitz: on semiconductors, for example. 88 00:04:00,330 --> 00:04:00,690 Sean Aylmer: Right, right. Yeah. 89 00:04:01,230 --> 00:04:06,089 Matthew Leibowitz: There's an ETF, I think it's called BOTZ, B- O- T- Z as well, which has 90 00:04:06,090 --> 00:04:08,849 Matthew Leibowitz: a really big increase, and I think it's up like 42% 91 00:04:08,849 --> 00:04:12,149 Matthew Leibowitz: in six months. So names like Nvidia, Microsoft's also been 92 00:04:12,150 --> 00:04:14,100 Matthew Leibowitz: on a bit of a tear and people sort of 93 00:04:14,250 --> 00:04:18,390 Matthew Leibowitz: understand those companies. Nvidia, I guess, I wouldn't call it... 94 00:04:18,420 --> 00:04:19,950 Matthew Leibowitz: I don't know if it's safe or not, that's the 95 00:04:19,950 --> 00:04:21,959 Matthew Leibowitz: individual investors to make up, but it's a very large 96 00:04:21,960 --> 00:04:23,400 Matthew Leibowitz: cap company that's been around for a while and it 97 00:04:23,400 --> 00:04:25,589 Matthew Leibowitz: gives you exposure to something that you may want to 98 00:04:25,589 --> 00:04:28,018 Matthew Leibowitz: be part of. So that and Microsoft have been the 99 00:04:28,020 --> 00:04:29,609 Matthew Leibowitz: sort of two names that people have really gone to 100 00:04:29,609 --> 00:04:31,469 Matthew Leibowitz: and if they want the leverage exposure, they'll go to the ETF. 101 00:04:31,470 --> 00:04:35,580 Sean Aylmer: Okay. And what about locally? Are there any stocks here 102 00:04:35,580 --> 00:04:37,230 Sean Aylmer: riding that AI wave? 103 00:04:37,890 --> 00:04:40,979 Matthew Leibowitz: I think WiseTech's probably the one. Really, it's been a 104 00:04:41,400 --> 00:04:44,669 Matthew Leibowitz: name on the ASX for a while, that's sort of 105 00:04:44,670 --> 00:04:48,779 Matthew Leibowitz: been an attractive tech name, and that's up 125% over 106 00:04:48,779 --> 00:04:51,988 Matthew Leibowitz: a year. That's the biggest beneficiary really. I don't really 107 00:04:51,990 --> 00:04:53,250 Matthew Leibowitz: know the ins and outs of that business, so I 108 00:04:53,250 --> 00:04:55,140 Matthew Leibowitz: can't comment, but it's been the one that seems to 109 00:04:55,140 --> 00:04:57,480 Matthew Leibowitz: be attractive to investors that want that exposure. 110 00:04:57,960 --> 00:05:02,009 Sean Aylmer: I did notice Appen the other day, talking about potentially riding 111 00:05:02,009 --> 00:05:05,488 Sean Aylmer: the AI wave. And Appen, I mean, the way I 112 00:05:05,488 --> 00:05:08,460 Sean Aylmer: think about Appen is they human test all the stuff 113 00:05:08,460 --> 00:05:12,539 Sean Aylmer: that eventually is done mechanically. Is that a fair description 114 00:05:12,540 --> 00:05:14,070 Sean Aylmer: of Appen? I'm not sure that's a fair description of Appen or not, 115 00:05:14,160 --> 00:05:16,470 Sean Aylmer: but they're certainly talking up AI. 116 00:05:17,250 --> 00:05:19,349 Matthew Leibowitz: Yeah, I think that probably suits their agenda. If you 117 00:05:19,349 --> 00:05:21,240 Matthew Leibowitz: actually look at the stock, it hasn't really moved much 118 00:05:21,240 --> 00:05:23,909 Matthew Leibowitz: in the last year, so maybe they're trying to move 119 00:05:23,910 --> 00:05:26,850 Matthew Leibowitz: into that space. Investors haven't bought into it, necessarily. It's 120 00:05:26,850 --> 00:05:29,490 Matthew Leibowitz: had a bit of a run over the last few months, but given 121 00:05:29,490 --> 00:05:32,250 Matthew Leibowitz: a bit back. But I don't think it's the name 122 00:05:32,250 --> 00:05:35,279 Matthew Leibowitz: that people rush to in Australia for AI exposure. It 123 00:05:35,279 --> 00:05:37,740 Matthew Leibowitz: may just be a strategic thing they're looking at doing. 124 00:05:38,279 --> 00:05:40,139 Sean Aylmer: Stay with me, Matt. We'll be back in a minute. 125 00:05:46,049 --> 00:05:49,770 Sean Aylmer: I'm speaking to Matt Leibowitz, co- founder and chief executive officer 126 00:05:50,010 --> 00:05:53,339 Sean Aylmer: of Stake. Okay. What about the banks? I mean the big four 127 00:05:53,339 --> 00:05:56,880 Sean Aylmer: here in Macquarie are such major parts of our index. 128 00:05:57,330 --> 00:05:59,279 Sean Aylmer: Are they popular in Australia at the moment? 129 00:05:59,520 --> 00:06:01,260 Matthew Leibowitz: Yeah, I think what you saw, I mean if you 130 00:06:01,260 --> 00:06:04,260 Matthew Leibowitz: actually look at tech, it actually started coming off about 131 00:06:04,260 --> 00:06:09,570 Matthew Leibowitz: two years ago, 19, 24 months ago. So what's been happening 132 00:06:09,570 --> 00:06:11,580 Matthew Leibowitz: is people actually have been starting to look for yield, a little bit more 133 00:06:11,580 --> 00:06:14,549 Matthew Leibowitz: safety and banks pay a dividend. Obviously, when rates move, 134 00:06:14,549 --> 00:06:17,639 Matthew Leibowitz: banks are actually generally in a better position except obviously 135 00:06:17,639 --> 00:06:19,560 Matthew Leibowitz: in the US with credit exposure. But Australian banks have 136 00:06:19,560 --> 00:06:23,370 Matthew Leibowitz: got, seems to be, reasonable credit exposure. But I think bigger 137 00:06:23,370 --> 00:06:25,830 Matthew Leibowitz: and boring is more beautiful sometimes when the market gets 138 00:06:25,830 --> 00:06:28,198 Matthew Leibowitz: tough and that seems to be a thematic and people 139 00:06:28,200 --> 00:06:30,178 Matthew Leibowitz: want the yield. It's like they want the fixed income 140 00:06:30,178 --> 00:06:32,878 Matthew Leibowitz: in a way. They want to know that they're getting a regular return 141 00:06:32,880 --> 00:06:35,039 Matthew Leibowitz: on their investment and the banks offer that. So there's 142 00:06:35,039 --> 00:06:36,839 Matthew Leibowitz: obviously been a bit of a rush to safety to some 143 00:06:36,839 --> 00:06:40,200 Matthew Leibowitz: extent. And the Aussie banks are well capitalized. They've been 144 00:06:40,200 --> 00:06:42,238 Matthew Leibowitz: around for a long time and people see them as 145 00:06:42,630 --> 00:06:43,320 Matthew Leibowitz: a safer bet. 146 00:06:43,920 --> 00:06:46,590 Sean Aylmer: Do Australian investors invest in US banks? 147 00:06:47,339 --> 00:06:49,979 Matthew Leibowitz: I think a few do. I mean obviously you had 148 00:06:49,980 --> 00:06:52,109 Matthew Leibowitz: the Silicon Valley Bank situation and then all the sort 149 00:06:52,109 --> 00:06:54,689 Matthew Leibowitz: of provincial and smaller regional banks that had all sorts 150 00:06:54,690 --> 00:06:56,370 Matthew Leibowitz: of issues. So there was a little bit of activity 151 00:06:56,370 --> 00:06:58,800 Matthew Leibowitz: then, but we haven't sort of seen the same run 152 00:06:58,920 --> 00:07:01,200 Matthew Leibowitz: to banks. You can get similar exposure in Australia unless 153 00:07:01,200 --> 00:07:03,479 Matthew Leibowitz: you really want to make a more volatile play in 154 00:07:03,480 --> 00:07:06,240 Matthew Leibowitz: the US. So I don't think there's any major demand 155 00:07:06,240 --> 00:07:08,009 Matthew Leibowitz: for US banks from Australia. And investors, if they're going 156 00:07:08,009 --> 00:07:10,739 Matthew Leibowitz: to invest overseas, it's going to be in names and 157 00:07:10,740 --> 00:07:12,990 Matthew Leibowitz: exposure they can't normally get access to here in Australia. 158 00:07:14,220 --> 00:07:16,380 Sean Aylmer: Okay. So I mean presumably Tesla's one of those guys? 159 00:07:16,560 --> 00:07:19,350 Matthew Leibowitz: Yeah, Tesla's always a popular name, although it's drifted back 160 00:07:19,350 --> 00:07:22,260 Matthew Leibowitz: a little bit. I think the Twitter, Elon Musk situation 161 00:07:22,260 --> 00:07:23,580 Matthew Leibowitz: has sort of taken a little bit of shine off 162 00:07:23,580 --> 00:07:25,349 Matthew Leibowitz: it, plus the stock prices move the other way. I 163 00:07:25,349 --> 00:07:28,619 Matthew Leibowitz: think it's moving more into that artificial intelligence we spoke 164 00:07:28,619 --> 00:07:31,560 Matthew Leibowitz: about before, that sort of exposure. Even some boring names 165 00:07:31,560 --> 00:07:33,720 Matthew Leibowitz: that have really done really well, as I said before, 166 00:07:33,720 --> 00:07:37,830 Matthew Leibowitz: that boring is beautiful. Again, the auto retailers like O'Reilly's 167 00:07:38,010 --> 00:07:43,830 Matthew Leibowitz: and AutoZone, they're up 50% the last year. Boring, steady, 168 00:07:44,160 --> 00:07:47,190 Matthew Leibowitz: low growth, but well run businesses have sort of been 169 00:07:47,190 --> 00:07:49,079 Matthew Leibowitz: where the money's been moving to. People just have gone, " 170 00:07:49,170 --> 00:07:51,480 Matthew Leibowitz: I want exposure to good quality companies." They don't need 171 00:07:51,480 --> 00:07:53,610 Matthew Leibowitz: the massive growth that we saw in '19 and '20. 172 00:07:54,510 --> 00:07:57,210 Sean Aylmer: Right, okay. What about the battery, metal stocks and the 173 00:07:57,210 --> 00:08:00,330 Sean Aylmer: lithium companies and those? We talk lots about them and 174 00:08:00,330 --> 00:08:03,420 Sean Aylmer: you hear lots about them. Are they popular among investors? 175 00:08:04,080 --> 00:08:06,480 Matthew Leibowitz: Yeah. I mean there's sort of two schools there. There's 176 00:08:06,480 --> 00:08:09,390 Matthew Leibowitz: the investors and the traders. With a brokerage platform you 177 00:08:09,390 --> 00:08:11,250 Matthew Leibowitz: see a bit of everything. Those are the ones that 178 00:08:11,250 --> 00:08:15,269 Matthew Leibowitz: move the most. They can move pretty sharply. Australian miners 179 00:08:15,270 --> 00:08:19,229 Matthew Leibowitz: offer some great access to lithium explorers or producers. So 180 00:08:19,230 --> 00:08:20,849 Matthew Leibowitz: we see a lot of that. You've obviously got Pilbara, 181 00:08:20,849 --> 00:08:23,939 Matthew Leibowitz: Sayona, and Lake, and Core Lithium. In one time is 182 00:08:24,359 --> 00:08:26,520 Matthew Leibowitz: GRE Green Tech, which is, I think it's up maybe 183 00:08:26,520 --> 00:08:29,100 Matthew Leibowitz: two, 300% in the last week, which have seen a sort of rush 184 00:08:29,100 --> 00:08:32,160 Matthew Leibowitz: of trading as well. That's GRE as the stock code. So there's 185 00:08:32,160 --> 00:08:34,468 Matthew Leibowitz: always something moving in the Aussie market. You've got some... 186 00:08:34,740 --> 00:08:37,169 Matthew Leibowitz: I think before that moved, it had a $ 4 million 187 00:08:37,170 --> 00:08:40,020 Matthew Leibowitz: market cap. I think it's like at 20 now, today, it's GRE. 188 00:08:40,559 --> 00:08:43,530 Matthew Leibowitz: So a lot of interest in some of the small 189 00:08:43,530 --> 00:08:46,410 Matthew Leibowitz: caps that offer really big exposure, but that's more for 190 00:08:46,410 --> 00:08:48,690 Matthew Leibowitz: the traders and the investors. But people may see a long- 191 00:08:48,690 --> 00:08:50,909 Matthew Leibowitz: term horizon for those and may say, actually this is 192 00:08:50,910 --> 00:08:53,610 Matthew Leibowitz: still a good entry point and put it in their 193 00:08:53,610 --> 00:08:55,920 Matthew Leibowitz: back pocket for the next couple of years and see what happens. 194 00:08:56,309 --> 00:08:59,670 Sean Aylmer: So Matthew Leibowitz, co- founder and CEO of Stake, what 195 00:08:59,670 --> 00:09:03,449 Sean Aylmer: is the next big trend? Do you think of AI... A simple question. 196 00:09:04,050 --> 00:09:05,910 Sean Aylmer: Do you think AI will still some way to play 197 00:09:05,910 --> 00:09:07,020 Sean Aylmer: out? What do you think? 198 00:09:07,380 --> 00:09:09,509 Matthew Leibowitz: Yeah, I don't really know enough and I don't have 199 00:09:09,510 --> 00:09:11,639 Matthew Leibowitz: a crystal ball, nor would I ever want to speculate 200 00:09:11,639 --> 00:09:13,619 Matthew Leibowitz: as to what's going to happen. I think, look, these 201 00:09:13,620 --> 00:09:16,379 Matthew Leibowitz: things, we saw it with marijuana stocks way back when we first 202 00:09:16,379 --> 00:09:18,059 Matthew Leibowitz: started Stake, they were the hot thing and they sort 203 00:09:18,059 --> 00:09:20,550 Matthew Leibowitz: of went nowhere. I mean this stuff, there's always going to be one 204 00:09:20,550 --> 00:09:23,130 Matthew Leibowitz: or two winners from each category. It obviously depends on 205 00:09:23,130 --> 00:09:27,450 Matthew Leibowitz: the industry, but AI is, I use ChatGPT, it's absolutely 206 00:09:27,540 --> 00:09:30,900 Matthew Leibowitz: very powerful and where that goes, it's pretty scary. Is 207 00:09:30,900 --> 00:09:33,689 Matthew Leibowitz: it the next thing? I don't know. I think, is it already here? Maybe. I can't 208 00:09:33,690 --> 00:09:36,990 Matthew Leibowitz: really answer that. Lithium, I think, driving electric cars around 209 00:09:36,990 --> 00:09:38,640 Matthew Leibowitz: and you see the (inaudible) in the US and I 210 00:09:38,640 --> 00:09:40,920 Matthew Leibowitz: saw some of that just how big it is over 211 00:09:40,920 --> 00:09:44,010 Matthew Leibowitz: there, that it really is the future of automotive and 212 00:09:44,010 --> 00:09:46,500 Matthew Leibowitz: travel. So look, you've got to think there's still something 213 00:09:46,500 --> 00:09:48,149 Matthew Leibowitz: there, but as I said, I don't know where the 214 00:09:48,150 --> 00:09:49,949 Matthew Leibowitz: future goes. How much is it really priced in is 215 00:09:49,950 --> 00:09:52,049 Matthew Leibowitz: another thing. You can be right on the thematic, you can 216 00:09:52,049 --> 00:09:55,290 Matthew Leibowitz: be wrong on the price. So each company is different. 217 00:09:55,290 --> 00:09:57,840 Matthew Leibowitz: How well it's run, where its strategy is, where you 218 00:09:57,840 --> 00:09:59,250 Matthew Leibowitz: buy it, where you sell it, that's going to make 219 00:09:59,250 --> 00:10:01,410 Matthew Leibowitz: the biggest difference to your portfolio rather than actually guessing 220 00:10:02,070 --> 00:10:02,730 Matthew Leibowitz: the theme right. 221 00:10:03,540 --> 00:10:05,789 Sean Aylmer: And just before we finish up, what about just taking 222 00:10:05,790 --> 00:10:09,660 Sean Aylmer: a step back, the macroeconomic outlook. Interest rates, is that 223 00:10:09,660 --> 00:10:12,328 Sean Aylmer: still something that people are worried about or investors are 224 00:10:12,330 --> 00:10:12,720 Sean Aylmer: worried about? 225 00:10:13,590 --> 00:10:15,750 Matthew Leibowitz: Yeah, I mean I think you can't run away from it 226 00:10:15,750 --> 00:10:18,449 Matthew Leibowitz: here in Australia with the way that we're structured with 227 00:10:18,450 --> 00:10:21,659 Matthew Leibowitz: people's mortgages. The way it's played out with, there's the whole 228 00:10:21,660 --> 00:10:24,240 Matthew Leibowitz: fix to variable that's sort of playing out over the next 229 00:10:24,240 --> 00:10:26,488 Matthew Leibowitz: couple of years. So people are nervous. We generally hear 230 00:10:26,490 --> 00:10:28,410 Matthew Leibowitz: that. We've actually seen that a lot in terms of 231 00:10:28,410 --> 00:10:30,870 Matthew Leibowitz: the exposure people want, how much they're investing and what 232 00:10:30,870 --> 00:10:33,540 Matthew Leibowitz: they're investing in. They're sort of battening down their hatches 233 00:10:33,540 --> 00:10:35,790 Matthew Leibowitz: a bit. But the S& P's still up. I think 234 00:10:35,790 --> 00:10:38,490 Matthew Leibowitz: they're around 10% for the year. It's funny how the 235 00:10:38,490 --> 00:10:41,458 Matthew Leibowitz: market is always ahead of the next move. As I 236 00:10:41,460 --> 00:10:43,499 Matthew Leibowitz: said two years ago, tech stocks really started to come 237 00:10:43,500 --> 00:10:45,420 Matthew Leibowitz: off maybe a little bit less than two years ago. 238 00:10:45,420 --> 00:10:48,570 Matthew Leibowitz: So the market's generally ahead of the sentiment. So what's 239 00:10:48,570 --> 00:10:51,598 Matthew Leibowitz: that great Buffett saying? It's, " Be fearful when others are 240 00:10:51,600 --> 00:10:53,490 Matthew Leibowitz: greedy and greedy when others are fearful." I think that's a bit of 241 00:10:54,059 --> 00:10:55,770 Matthew Leibowitz: a moment now to consider that. 242 00:10:56,760 --> 00:10:58,230 Sean Aylmer: I've got to ask you, Matt, how is Stake going? 243 00:10:58,230 --> 00:10:59,670 Sean Aylmer: We spoke, I think, it was a couple of years. 244 00:10:59,670 --> 00:11:02,610 Sean Aylmer: It was 2021 I think when we last spoke. How is 245 00:11:02,610 --> 00:11:03,270 Sean Aylmer: Stake going? 246 00:11:03,270 --> 00:11:06,359 Matthew Leibowitz: Yeah, it's great. I mean, it's obviously a journey, building 247 00:11:06,359 --> 00:11:09,000 Matthew Leibowitz: any business and a lot of respect to any entrepreneurs 248 00:11:09,000 --> 00:11:11,309 Matthew Leibowitz: or people that run their own businesses out there. It's 249 00:11:11,309 --> 00:11:14,250 Matthew Leibowitz: not a straightforward thing to do, but absolutely loving it. 250 00:11:14,429 --> 00:11:16,708 Matthew Leibowitz: We've really just focused on our customers. I think the 251 00:11:16,710 --> 00:11:18,749 Matthew Leibowitz: last two years have showed us how much demand there 252 00:11:18,750 --> 00:11:22,049 Matthew Leibowitz: is for people to directly invest or invest directly in 253 00:11:22,049 --> 00:11:23,759 Matthew Leibowitz: the market, and that's who we serve. So we're just 254 00:11:23,760 --> 00:11:26,010 Matthew Leibowitz: sticking at it and we're really happy with where things 255 00:11:26,010 --> 00:11:27,358 Matthew Leibowitz: are at and a lot more to come. 256 00:11:27,870 --> 00:11:29,550 Sean Aylmer: Matt, thank you for talking to Fear and Greed. 257 00:11:30,090 --> 00:11:30,988 Matthew Leibowitz: Cheers. Thanks for having me. 258 00:11:31,440 --> 00:11:35,160 Sean Aylmer: That was Matthew Leibowitz, co- founder and CEO of Stake, 259 00:11:35,190 --> 00:11:37,620 Sean Aylmer: which of course is a great supporter of this podcast. 260 00:11:37,980 --> 00:11:40,109 Sean Aylmer: This is the Fear and Greed daily interview. Remember, you 261 00:11:40,109 --> 00:11:43,590 Sean Aylmer: should get professional advice before making any investment decisions. Join 262 00:11:43,590 --> 00:11:45,390 Sean Aylmer: us every morning for the full episode of Fear and 263 00:11:45,390 --> 00:11:49,530 Sean Aylmer: Greed, Australia's most popular business podcast. I'm Sean Aylmer. Enjoy 264 00:11:49,530 --> 00:11:49,920 Sean Aylmer: your day.