Speaker 1: Matt, are you ready for a night of fun?
Speaker 2: I'm always down for fun. Now now you know that.
Speaker 3: Well, we hit two.
Speaker 1: Million listens this year and to celebrate, we're going on tour.
Speaker 2: That we are. So on Thursday the seventh of September,
Speaker 2: we're going to be in Melbourne, Wednesday.
Speaker 3: The thirteenth of September, we're going to be in Brisbane.
Speaker 2: And Thursday the twenty first of September, we're going to
Speaker 2: be in Sydney.
Speaker 1: We're going to have special guests, prizes and so much fun.
Speaker 1: So make sure you get your tickets in our show notes.
Speaker 2: Bye see you there.
Speaker 3: I want the fairy Tale. I want the Prince Charming.
Speaker 2: She how do I put this? Isn't a fan of
Speaker 2: my kissing style.
Speaker 3: Boyfriend and girlfriend for about twelve hours. He's in a
Speaker 3: trash bin. He's non recyclable, catching my.
Speaker 2: Mus I love being in love. I love love.
Speaker 1: On today's episode of Where's Your Head At, we are
Speaker 1: sitting down with Esne Louise, historian, author, journalists, and TikTok personality.
Speaker 2: As my host of podcast, has performed at Ted talks
Speaker 2: and releases TikTok videos about kinky history and today we'll
Speaker 2: be getting to find out some sourcing information about sex
Speaker 2: through the ages.
Speaker 1: Who will ask her all about her favorite sex and
Speaker 1: sexuality moments throughout history, and whether or not our sexual
Speaker 1: preferences or routines have changed in the last one hundred years.
Speaker 2: Stick Around.
Speaker 3: Where's Your Head At?
Speaker 1: Is a podcast that talks all things relationships, breakups, reality TV,
Speaker 1: trending shows, and everything in between.
Speaker 2: This is your new go to destination for laughs, gossip,
Speaker 2: intimate details, advice, and much more.
Speaker 1: Hello, Hello, Hello, how are we It's so nice to
Speaker 1: have you in the studio with her.
Speaker 4: This feels like a long time coming. No, absolutely, this
Speaker 4: is wonderful.
Speaker 2: It's good to finally get you. We met at Splendor
Speaker 2: in the Grass. You've had your live show as well.
Speaker 4: I know, and I feel really bad because I couldn't
Speaker 4: make yours because I was getting really drunk as soon
Speaker 4: as I came off the planet.
Speaker 3: That's what's he should have.
Speaker 2: We should because yeah, we're in the shuttle together and
Speaker 2: then we're like, watch your show, and then you didn't come.
Speaker 5: Do you know?
Speaker 4: I really thought about it, but my priority as soon
Speaker 4: as I came off that plane was I need to
Speaker 4: find a bottle of champagne. And then I was like, oh,
Speaker 4: they're on, and then I felt really bad. Sorry, this
Speaker 4: is my formal apology to you.
Speaker 1: Technically we didn't come to your show, but you did
Speaker 1: go live, so I technically also saw it.
Speaker 3: I did that.
Speaker 2: I feel like I was it.
Speaker 4: Oh if you can't remember, but I can't say that.
Speaker 4: We definitely enjoyed some time together backstage, so it doesn't
Speaker 4: really matter about the show. I don't think I gave
Speaker 4: you a rundown of my show anyway.
Speaker 3: So yeah, and when.
Speaker 1: We met you, you are filled with so much knowledge
Speaker 1: about sex and just just a plethora of information that
Speaker 1: is so random that I never thought I needed, but
Speaker 1: I was like, I think I like I really needed that,
Speaker 1: Like this is so interesting. I've actually repeated some of
Speaker 1: the things you said back to my fiancee Michael, and
Speaker 1: he's like, who told you this?
Speaker 3: Did have you fact check this? And I'm like, yes, esme.
Speaker 1: The historian from Slender in the Grass told me about this.
Speaker 4: This is fact Chac. It's terrified, I promise you. They
Speaker 4: all just like to be spanka.
Speaker 2: The story that you told when it wasn't during your podcast,
Speaker 2: but when you did that speech about the girls putting
Speaker 2: fish in their vagina.
Speaker 3: Oh yes, and we just can't be real. No, it
Speaker 3: was real. Tell it from the story. I could not believe.
Speaker 2: I don't think I told it right. But and I
Speaker 2: was like what, and I was like yeah, yeah, like.
Speaker 4: Yeah, people put fish in their vaginas. I swear. I
Speaker 4: think this is part of the really kinky compartment of
Speaker 4: my brain is just like filled with all of this
Speaker 4: terrible stuff. But it was in the medieval ages, and
Speaker 4: there was this uh like old wives tale that they
Speaker 4: were trying to get their husbands into bed with them,
Speaker 4: and they wanted them to be fertile because there was
Speaker 4: a belief at the time that it was like the
Speaker 4: man that was solely responsible for producing an air, and
Speaker 4: you know, women were just ovens. And so what women
Speaker 4: would do to try and entice their husbands back into
Speaker 4: bed with them was shoved fish into their vaginas.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, and alive, shut out a.
Speaker 4: Lot, let it soak in their juices, wait until it
Speaker 4: dies dies.
Speaker 3: So you're like vaginas like suffocating the fish to dead.
Speaker 4: For me to be fair, it's probably like an og vibrator,
Speaker 4: like just flopping around in.
Speaker 2: That imagine trying to get it in.
Speaker 4: They're squirmy, and they didn't specify the size of the
Speaker 4: fish iver so I don't know if we're talking about goldfish.
Speaker 4: But after that they were after it soaked in the juices,
Speaker 4: they would then cook it and serve it to the
Speaker 4: husband as like an aphrodisiac, and it was meant to,
Speaker 4: you know, make them go like, hmm, I really feel
Speaker 4: like her vagina, to know, like fish and chips.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, ship. I remember the whole thing when I
Speaker 2: was like it was wild story.
Speaker 3: Use if that is a true story.
Speaker 4: It was written down by this this bishop of the
Speaker 4: time and recorded, and so it's kind of like, well,
Speaker 4: if he's writing it down, it's either you know, real,
Speaker 4: or he was, like I think that this is what
Speaker 4: women do.
Speaker 3: I hope happen vagina was born?
Speaker 2: Is that where it was born from that?
Speaker 4: I haven't been able to trace this theory, but I think,
Speaker 4: you know, probably a connotation. But for a long time
Speaker 4: that like the fish in the vagina, fishy vaginas, the
Speaker 4: smell or just passes down. There's so many words like
Speaker 4: that that just have passed down for these crazy sex
Speaker 4: moments from history that it's.
Speaker 3: So likely, you know, what's so interesting?
Speaker 1: So I recently was in Europe and I was in
Speaker 1: Barcelona specifically, and they have this sex museum there, very famous.
Speaker 1: And it's interesting because Matt actually that day was like,
Speaker 1: we're gonna have Esza on the podcast finally, because we've
Speaker 1: tried to tea this up for a while, and I
Speaker 1: was like, I have to go to this sexx museum,
Speaker 1: like I want to like have some thing to tell you.
Speaker 4: Anyway, I'm so excited.
Speaker 1: It's not like that good I took.
Speaker 4: It's definitely not as good as the fish story. She
Speaker 4: actually went to a fish market. She's I guess what.
Speaker 2: Michael loved it.
Speaker 1: But I did see the first ever documented porno love
Speaker 1: in there.
Speaker 3: Me and Michael sat down for like twenty minutes and
Speaker 3: watched this.
Speaker 1: It was like I think it was like three different
Speaker 1: pornos on repeat and they're just like so stray, Like
Speaker 1: I love it. What era was the like video kind of?
Speaker 1: I think it was like I wish I knew I
Speaker 1: have it on my phone. I took a phone.
Speaker 3: I think it was like eighteen. I wanted to.
Speaker 1: Dress stop like it was yeah, yeah, yeah, it was
Speaker 1: a very flickery. I love that and like the sex
Speaker 1: that they were having it was just like what position?
Speaker 2: Yeah, what were they doing?
Speaker 3: It was like very stop and starty, like was that
Speaker 3: the film?
Speaker 1: It was a film, but it was mainly them, So
Speaker 1: like the guy was like it was okay, I don't
Speaker 1: want to say this because it's maybe a.
Speaker 3: Bit like it was a bit rapy.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, Like the girl came into this guy's office
Speaker 1: and then he pulled up put his head in her
Speaker 1: boobs for a second, and then pulled the top back down,
Speaker 1: and it was like there was like this like uplifting music.
Speaker 3: Playing the whole time.
Speaker 5: Ye.
Speaker 4: Yes, Well, Charlie Chaplain had like a whole sex thing.
Speaker 4: He used to enjoy throwing pies at women who were
Speaker 4: naked on his couch, and that's kind of how he
Speaker 4: would cast them as well. Like, yeah, he has a
Speaker 4: whole weird sex thing. He was weird for many many reasons.
Speaker 4: But yeah, he used to enjoy get off to throwing.
Speaker 3: Pies at women insane. Yeah, isn't that like kinks right.
Speaker 2: That's one of those things judge someone's king.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's true.
Speaker 4: I don't know.
Speaker 2: I like.
Speaker 3: Throwing a pie at me, like is it a hot piem?
Speaker 2: Like going to get you?
Speaker 4: Well, I mean hopefully it's not very like Australian.
Speaker 2: And then I was just like hot pies, meat pie
Speaker 2: some source on it.
Speaker 4: Worse enough, when you like buy into it, it's just like.
Speaker 2: I'm picturing like the pies.
Speaker 4: It is the whipped cream. Yeah, okay, which kind of
Speaker 4: makes like you think about when you see some of
Speaker 4: the Charlie Chaplin films and there is a lot of
Speaker 4: pies in them. And then like you know, reports from
Speaker 4: women being like, no he threw pies and got off yeah,
Speaker 4: and no wonder he went into like the you know
Speaker 4: what some.
Speaker 1: Of the craziest kings you've heard speaking of kinks.
Speaker 4: Craziest kinks I've heard. It's so hard because I've become
Speaker 4: really desensitized to them. I think what's quite interesting is
Speaker 4: like being in this line of work. You know, I'll
Speaker 4: speak on the internet about like nylon fetishes and fetishes
Speaker 4: and all of these kind of fetishes and people will
Speaker 4: often and I love it. I like that people come
Speaker 4: to me for help, but they'll send me through a
Speaker 4: message to the effect of like is this normal, And
Speaker 4: rather than just kind of giving it an umbrella category
Speaker 4: like foot fetishes, they were like, is it normal to
Speaker 4: want to tear someone's tights, come into the tights, grab
Speaker 4: the cum, put it on my face, and then like
Speaker 4: run around naked outside. I'm like, okay, I could specific Yeah,
Speaker 4: I could do with I always know if I like
Speaker 4: look into my DMS and there's like a whole bloody essay,
Speaker 4: I'm like, Okay, they've gone into specific fantasies another details,
Speaker 4: like just give me umbrella descriptions.
Speaker 2: So do you get a lot of that people sending
Speaker 2: in like their weird kinks.
Speaker 4: Yeah, And I think it's it's it's nice. I kind
Speaker 4: of like it. I'm like, I will tell you that
Speaker 4: this is normal, and I'll give you stats, but I'm
Speaker 4: not gonna go into the details of your fantasy right now.
Speaker 4: That feels like that's between you and your party.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because I feel like, would some of these people
Speaker 1: maybe like tell you them because they're kind of like
Speaker 1: getting off that you're reading this and then it's some
Speaker 1: sort of like sexual self.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 4: I think that is definitely the case for a lot
Speaker 4: of them. I think there's nothing I would say, there's
Speaker 4: nothing sexier than research. So I'm just sending back stats
Speaker 4: and probably not giving them what they want. But I
Speaker 4: was like, yeah, take this.
Speaker 2: People, where are you getting your SATs from? Can't they just?
Speaker 4: Oh, I do you know what.
Speaker 3: I talked about?
Speaker 4: Statistics? We were just talking about this before the podcast starts.
Speaker 4: My mom runs all the statistics for my research, which
Speaker 4: is a very ill.
Speaker 1: Your relationship with your mom is just like the optimum
Speaker 1: mother daughter relationship in my mind. Like I listened to
Speaker 1: your episode with your mom, and you guys are like
Speaker 1: giggling and talking about sex and talking about like, you know,
Speaker 1: like rimming and stuff, and I'm just like, I don't even.
Speaker 3: Know if my mum knows what room is.
Speaker 2: I'm pretty sure.
Speaker 4: Your mom sounds fun. I think it's nice. I was
Speaker 4: saying that while we work on some of the research,
Speaker 4: I'll get these really crazy messages from my mom without context,
Speaker 4: which would just be like, hey, honey, I'm working on
Speaker 4: rimmen today. Have you got masturfation?
Speaker 3: Love mom?
Speaker 4: Oh, by the way, are we having dinner tonight? Like
Speaker 4: it's just really is so funny out of context, because
Speaker 4: she also just becomes really desensitized to this. And then
Speaker 4: I think my favorite one that I wanted to make
Speaker 4: the first line of the book was she just sent
Speaker 4: this message being like, hey, honey, did you know that
Speaker 4: people aren't having anal as much as they used to.
Speaker 4: Rimmon's are craze now and I was like, thank you
Speaker 4: so much.
Speaker 3: Mom.
Speaker 4: It's always just starts with high honey, and it's like
Speaker 4: just really filthy and then love, Mom, I love that.
Speaker 3: How good?
Speaker 2: Is that why you got into kinky history? Because your
Speaker 2: mum was so open? Like did you grow up with
Speaker 2: it all?
Speaker 5: No?
Speaker 2: Okay.
Speaker 4: I think this is the weirdest part about all of
Speaker 4: this is Mom came and wanted to jump on the
Speaker 4: research as I started to work on kinky history, and
Speaker 4: she was like, your research sounds so much more fun
Speaker 4: than mine. And we were like really drunk one time.
Speaker 4: I think there's a recurring theme of my life. And
Speaker 4: we were really drunk, and she's like, what have you
Speaker 4: added like statistics to kinky history? And if you want
Speaker 4: to like talk about you know, pooh fetishes, we could
Speaker 4: like bring stats in And I'm like, well, I can't
Speaker 4: do that because I'm not a mathematician. I hate that.
Speaker 4: And she's like, well, I've actually done all the research
Speaker 4: for you and just gave it to me. And I
Speaker 4: was like, oh my gosh, is this what you've been
Speaker 4: doing at work?
Speaker 3: And so alas your book was born right, Yeah.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's a comba with all of my kinky history knowledge,
Speaker 4: bringing in contemporary research which my mum's worked on, and
Speaker 4: then some random antidotes from our own life.
Speaker 3: I mean, it doesn't get any better.
Speaker 2: Read it.
Speaker 3: It sounds amazing.
Speaker 2: It might be a book that I actually read.
Speaker 3: I love that. I love that.
Speaker 4: That's what we want.
Speaker 3: I keep telling Matt, like, you need to get better
Speaker 3: at reading.
Speaker 2: Because he well, you heard me read out the intro.
Speaker 1: And he's like, I just don't know if there's a
Speaker 1: book I can get into, but I feel like you
Speaker 1: could get into this book.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, definitely, definitely. Well, yeah, I was going to
Speaker 2: ask you that do you do much of the practicals
Speaker 2: of them or just theory?
Speaker 3: Oh?
Speaker 2: That was such like I was trying and I said before,
Speaker 2: I'm going to try and not ask that sleazy, but like,
Speaker 2: there's only so much how can I do?
Speaker 4: Like, you know, do you know what's quite sad in
Speaker 4: some ways? And you would notice that by the time
Speaker 4: you start, you know, making podcasts and you become a
Speaker 4: content creator, you become really, really, really busy. It's not
Speaker 4: like a nine to five job, like you're just always busy.
Speaker 4: And there was a moment in my friendship group where
Speaker 4: I realized I was no longer like the sexy, kinky one.
Speaker 3: I was just the one who did the theory.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 4: In the past, it was always like, you know, as
Speaker 4: May has gone to sex clubs, she's like done everything,
Speaker 4: you know, come to her with your questions. And now
Speaker 4: my friends are just kind of like, that's so cute,
Speaker 4: Like you're in your little monogamous relationship.
Speaker 3: Have you tried doggy?
Speaker 4: I'm now the theory one. It sucks.
Speaker 3: I love it.
Speaker 4: I had the worst moment where I was out for
Speaker 4: dinner with five friends and I was sitting there having
Speaker 4: a great time until I realized that every single one
Speaker 4: of them was fucking one another. They're all in these
Speaker 4: like beautiful, open polyamorous relationships, doing gorgeous kinky stuff, and
Speaker 4: I was the only one not connected to the web.
Speaker 2: Was like, we're on the outside, the fringe, the fringe river, Oh.
Speaker 4: The mighty have fallen.
Speaker 1: Well, speaking of your monogamous relationship, which I'm sure is
Speaker 1: not you know, how did you meet your lovely partner
Speaker 1: via bia bumble?
Speaker 4: We're dating out. I think most people are in this data.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, we love a dating app, and that's recently single.
Speaker 2: I don't. Yeah, I don't use dating apps.
Speaker 3: No, not at all.
Speaker 4: You're an in person kind of guy. Instagram, you're still
Speaker 4: online dating.
Speaker 5: On the app.
Speaker 4: You're looking at the fire emotions and you're like this one.
Speaker 3: That's your bumble prompt. I love that. So tell us
Speaker 3: about your partner. How did you guys me? Tell us
Speaker 3: a little bit about your relationship.
Speaker 4: I think us I kind of forced him into a relationship.
Speaker 2: You know what you wanted?
Speaker 4: Well, yes, I know what I wanted. And we actually
Speaker 4: met a week before like lockdown and everything was getting announced,
Speaker 4: and I was living by myself in the city at
Speaker 4: the time, and we had connected on Bumble. I literally
Speaker 4: saw his dorky door profile picture and he's like because
Speaker 4: he's come over from Canada and he was like wearing
Speaker 4: this like Australian bucket hat, Australian shorts, like posing outside it. Yeah,
Speaker 4: And I was like, who is this man? And how
Speaker 4: is this your first picture on a dating site? Like
Speaker 4: I'm so intrigued. And then I had a look and
Speaker 4: it was like job lawyer. I'm like, okay, you did
Speaker 4: not look like any lawyer I've ever met, and then
Speaker 4: it was like favorite film and it was just Finding Nemo.
Speaker 4: And I was like, Okay, who is this guy? You're
Speaker 4: such a dog. So I just sent him a message
Speaker 4: and I was like, why not finding Dory? That was
Speaker 4: my prompt, that was all I said. And I get
Speaker 4: this bloody essay back from this man, like passionately defending
Speaker 4: finding Nemo. I sent one back, passionately defending finding Dory.
Speaker 4: And then he just sends a message and he's like,
Speaker 4: I work in the city. Do you want to get
Speaker 4: a drink right now? I'm like, how's a.
Speaker 2: Blundy WOI that's really cute.
Speaker 4: Yeah, And we've literally gone for an hour drink. That
Speaker 4: was it. I was like, I'll give you an hour, yeah, clicked,
Speaker 4: my claws were in. I was like, I love this man.
Speaker 4: He's absolutely the chaotic. It's so wonderful. Two days later,
Speaker 4: he was gonna take me out for dinner and I
Speaker 4: was like, there's actually this like virus going around. Do
Speaker 4: you mind if we read in check? You can just
Speaker 4: come over to mine for takeaway. This man doesn't leave
Speaker 4: my house for three days. So it was a really
Speaker 4: good day, actually very good day. But then by the
Speaker 4: following week, I have to call this man while he's
Speaker 4: working in the courts, being like, hey, they're announcing this
Speaker 4: thing called a lockdown. I live by myself. I'm panicking.
Speaker 4: You don't have family, Let's date and that's it. Yeah,
Speaker 4: And then he moved in with me for like six months.
Speaker 2: Did he have his own joint or just yeah?
Speaker 4: But he was like in a sharehouse at the time,
Speaker 4: and I was being very late, Oh okay, I don't
Speaker 4: want what's happening, and so I just moved in with
Speaker 4: this man for six months for you.
Speaker 3: You know what, when you feel it, you feel it
Speaker 3: right when you know you know. And if I mean,
Speaker 3: I'd prefer to move him with someone.
Speaker 2: Ships that lockdown like forced. That was the same with me.
Speaker 2: And my exit is like my mom because I was
Speaker 2: looking at my mum's at the time. She's like, you're
Speaker 2: not coming back and forth. You're either one or the other.
Speaker 2: And I was like, well, you know, I'm getting my
Speaker 2: dicks out there, fair, I have priority. Yeah, I'm kind
Speaker 2: to go stay there. And the next thing we started
Speaker 2: dating didn't work out, but yours has. Obviously, I think
Speaker 2: like lockdown.
Speaker 4: Was making break like for very but it was also
Speaker 4: when we cover a lot of this in the book,
Speaker 4: but like how COVID also affected our sex lives is
Speaker 4: so interesting. Like people bondage sales in Australia were at
Speaker 4: a huge high, Like we're talking about an eighty percent
Speaker 4: increase in people buying whips and chains, and even sex
Speaker 4: toys are like one hundred and twenty percent increase.
Speaker 3: Like wow, we.
Speaker 4: Have never seen a bigger boom in the sex toy industry.
Speaker 4: And I love that Lockdown kind of made people, I
Speaker 4: guess want.
Speaker 3: To lock each other down.
Speaker 4: Like we were just like really getting very experimental. Yea,
Speaker 4: if you're locked in the house with nothing to do,
Speaker 4: we're just like, let's try pegging.
Speaker 1: For nothing else to do, let's go for it.
Speaker 3: To be fair, I had some very good lockdown sex. Yeah,
Speaker 3: you know what I mean. Things were getting very excited.
Speaker 2: Yeah, why I was. We were doing like different kinks
Speaker 2: and different stuff when we were in lockdown together as well,
Speaker 2: we were expressing them. Yeah.
Speaker 4: It is so like everyone and the sales have kind
Speaker 4: of remained, so this is like we're really interested in tracking.
Speaker 4: But like people were kinky in Lockdown and stay kinky,
Speaker 4: and I think they have because we also look at
Speaker 4: you know, podcasts like this, the podcast like mine that
Speaker 4: started afterwards, there's now this need to kind of want
Speaker 4: to talk about sex. Yeah, and we're talking about a
Speaker 4: lot more. Yeah, fucking horny.
Speaker 3: We're also horny.
Speaker 2: Yeah's like acts like we're not. Those days are over.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and people love listening to sex as well, like
Speaker 1: I love listening to people talk about sex, like I
Speaker 1: love listening to your podcast.
Speaker 3: Oh that's so interesting.
Speaker 1: And speaking of that, yeah, you said that sales to
Speaker 1: sex toys went up one hundred and twenty percent.
Speaker 3: Can you tell us a little bit about the history
Speaker 3: of the dialo sentence? She knew it was coming.
Speaker 4: I think it's my favorite question of all times.
Speaker 2: I think I asked you this.
Speaker 4: Yeah, in the car your first question, I was.
Speaker 2: Like telling you where the dido started starting a cave
Speaker 2: with the year or no, maybe you told me that.
Speaker 4: Then I wanted him, Matt, say, what do you.
Speaker 3: Think it is?
Speaker 2: Something like did the carve a rock or something into it?
Speaker 1: Oh?
Speaker 3: That would be sharp.
Speaker 4: Well, I mean you're not far off. That's a log
Speaker 4: or something. It was a siltstone object that was found
Speaker 4: in a German cave in two thousand and five, and
Speaker 4: they've dated it back to twenty eight thousand years ago,
Speaker 4: twenty eight eight thousand, so for context, we invented writing
Speaker 4: it about five thousand years ago, so like we were
Speaker 4: far more interested in getting off.
Speaker 2: Yeah, even thought eight thousand years.
Speaker 4: Ago, twenty eight thousand years ago. And the object that
Speaker 4: they found was like, so it's found, but it has
Speaker 4: a ring around the top and it was quote highly
Speaker 4: polished at the top from overuse. That's in the official
Speaker 4: research paper, and that's what made them determine that it
Speaker 4: was definitely a sex toy. And then they found similar
Speaker 4: models from like ten thousand years ago, fifteen thousand years ago,
Speaker 4: five thousand years ago. And then by the time we
Speaker 4: start writing in like you know, ancient Greece, they write
Speaker 4: about the dildos and it's fucking filthy. They have entire
Speaker 4: plays about this is a play called Lysostrata, and basically
Speaker 4: the summary of it is that women are like men,
Speaker 4: we need to stop fighting and the war. We're going
Speaker 4: to refuse you sex until you stop so very quickly.
Speaker 4: And the women all like gather around a bowl of
Speaker 4: wine and they're like, okay, quote to gnore the fleshing,
Speaker 4: to ignore the gnawing of our flesh. We need to
Speaker 4: use our eight fingered leather dildo to help our cunts,
Speaker 4: is what they say in part the translation. Yeah yeah, yeah,
Speaker 4: And so they were using a lot of padded leather
Speaker 4: in ancient Greece as dildos. They had strap on dildos,
Speaker 4: they had like double ended dildos. And there's also a
Speaker 4: room that they used breadsticks smeting olive oil. That was
Speaker 4: their original form of lubrication, a little like straw string dick.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Get I was thinking about like the time skinny breadsticks.
Speaker 2: And they looped it up with olive oil.
Speaker 4: Olive oil is actually still a very popular form of lubrication,
Speaker 4: but it was really well documented in ancient Greece, and
Speaker 4: a lot of their pots that have like sex depicted
Speaker 4: on them used to contain olive oil. That was kind
Speaker 4: of like advertising today, like here's all of the people
Speaker 4: you could fuck if you used your lubrication.
Speaker 3: Wow, makes sense.
Speaker 1: It's so interesting, right because when I went to this
Speaker 1: museum in Barcelona, there was like so much like like
Speaker 1: photographs and video and just like so much imagery of
Speaker 1: like people having sex and people having threesomes and orgies
Speaker 1: and all.
Speaker 3: And I was like in my mind.
Speaker 1: I genuinely think I thought that, like our grandparents and
Speaker 1: parents weren't really having sex because it was so taboo
Speaker 1: and like not spoken about. But then when I was
Speaker 1: in there, I was like, wait, they were having a
Speaker 1: lot of sex. Like I genuinely thought my grandparents probably
Speaker 1: had sex three times because they had three kids.
Speaker 4: That's how taboo it was in our.
Speaker 2: Family behind closed doors.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but like it's just I mean to see the images,
Speaker 1: I was like, wow, like people.
Speaker 3: Were really going at it. They were really.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Like there was this like woman and this guy
Speaker 1: was like putting this big log thing.
Speaker 3: Yeah, oh wait wan to hurt. Oh that's not it
Speaker 3: was huge.
Speaker 1: And I was like, whoa, I know, I have a
Speaker 1: phone on my phone because.
Speaker 3: You were allowed to take photos. It wasn't like.
Speaker 1: Later, No, it was like a photo. It was actually happening.
Speaker 3: Wow.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's nice. That's kind of like logging in the
Speaker 4: early days.
Speaker 2: I mean, like, Peggy, I remember another question I asked
Speaker 2: you in the car was and you clear cleared it up. Cleopatra.
Speaker 4: Cleopatra and her vibrator.
Speaker 2: Yeah, she was a sex theme, but you said she
Speaker 2: it's I cur't remember said because that was one of
Speaker 2: the questions asked. It wasn't clear a patra black gobby
Speaker 2: master or something.
Speaker 3: Golden Mouth, golden Mouth, is that really a thing?
Speaker 4: Well that the story goes that she gave one hundred
Speaker 4: people in one night a gobby and then gaining the
Speaker 4: name golden Mouth from Julius Caesar. But I was explaining
Speaker 4: that Cleopatch is an interesting one because she would have
Speaker 4: been a very sexually autonomous woman and very soon after
Speaker 4: she died. What historians at the time, they're very different today,
Speaker 4: what we have to be very objective in fact check everything. Hopefully,
Speaker 4: historians then were like political slanderers, like they just wanted
Speaker 4: to demolish someone, and so they were really keen to
Speaker 4: take down a woman in power. And so the historian
Speaker 4: who actually wrote about her was called golden Mouth, like
Speaker 4: that was his nickname because he was so good with words.
Speaker 4: And somewhere along the line, I'm not going to judge,
Speaker 4: but she was kind of like the first one of
Speaker 4: the earliest examples of you know, women being slandered for
Speaker 4: their sexual prowess, because she did have some fantastic relationships.
Speaker 4: But then you know, she gains the name golden Mouth.
Speaker 4: Now that's still like you see as like a reddit
Speaker 4: thing quite often that comes around. There's also one that
Speaker 4: Cleopatra invented the vibrator using a gord of angry bees
Speaker 4: to kind of like give herself a buzz. It's all
Speaker 4: very innovative always, and it's like, we don't have evidence
Speaker 4: of that, but what we do have is like original
Speaker 4: pornography from ancient Egypt where you can see descriptions and
Speaker 4: in one of them there's a picture of a woman
Speaker 4: kind of squatting on a vase trying to rub herself off.
Speaker 4: And we also know that Egyptian rulers were documented to
Speaker 4: fuck animals as show of Yeah, like the Golden Mouth
Speaker 4: was writing all about how Egyptian rulers were fucking alligators
Speaker 4: to show that they were very Yeah, and horses, how.
Speaker 2: Does that work?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 3: How does that work? As an alligator from the bum?
Speaker 2: I love alligators and crocodiles.
Speaker 4: But I mean it's one of those things that you
Speaker 4: kind of take everything with a grain of salt, like
Speaker 4: this is someone This was like someone in Sydney riding
Speaker 4: about someone in Melbourne. You know, someone in ancient Greece
Speaker 4: is riding about someone in ancient Egypt, and they're like, no,
Speaker 4: they're so fuck alligators over there, Like, yeah.
Speaker 2: I heard from a friend there.
Speaker 4: And so Cleopatra and how holy gold of angry bees
Speaker 4: and her golden mouth all come out of this time
Speaker 4: of just everyone's slandering one another but using set, which
Speaker 4: means that things like blowjobs and everything were very well
Speaker 4: recorded and very well known, and that's something to take
Speaker 4: out of it. Female masturbation was clearly very well known.
Speaker 4: The joys of vibrations were very well known.
Speaker 2: Like then, why through history then it was so talking
Speaker 2: about Then why did like masturbation and female masturbation especially
Speaker 2: not keep going like that? Why did it like stop
Speaker 2: and become taboo and change?
Speaker 4: There's a really important turning point for us in the
Speaker 4: seventeenth eighteenth century. That's the area that in my professional
Speaker 4: life at university I specialize in because there is such
Speaker 4: an interesting point where we change everything are thinking about
Speaker 4: everything to do with the body changes, like eating, defecating, sex,
Speaker 4: and homosexuality and all.
Speaker 2: Of these kind of things become prude almost.
Speaker 4: Yeah, basically there's a really big flashback for the church
Speaker 4: becomes a lot more political, They kind of become more authoritative,
Speaker 4: and you know, even things like we had a war
Speaker 4: on sugar, where like you shouldn't eat sugary foods because
Speaker 4: that will make you promiscuous, and it's not christianly to
Speaker 4: eat sugar and the yeah, yeah, at the same time
Speaker 4: as we're like anything that brings you pleasure. Basically they
Speaker 4: thought would not be right because they thought the body
Speaker 4: was filled with sin and we have to be constantly
Speaker 4: punishing ourselves.
Speaker 1: Is that because like priests weren't allowed to have sex,
Speaker 1: so they were trying to like make feel bad.
Speaker 4: Well that it's a bit of a form of like
Speaker 4: social control, right, because if you're telling everyone of the
Speaker 4: general public, you can't partake in our sugary foods the
Speaker 4: upper class could they believe that fruits and meats were
Speaker 4: only for people who were born to.
Speaker 3: The aristocracy, Yeah.
Speaker 4: And everyone else shoudnent partake in it. So it's a
Speaker 4: form of social controls. So you get rid of anything
Speaker 4: to do with pleasure, you get rid of sugar, you
Speaker 4: get rid of masturbation, and they start to define like
Speaker 4: kind of homosexuality and heterosexuality for the first time. Up
Speaker 4: until then, it was pretty much you know, anything goes
Speaker 4: in a lot of ways. So this is all like
Speaker 4: seventeen hundred sixteen hundreds kind of time. So you know,
Speaker 4: you're looking at the time of like the French Revolution
Speaker 4: if you want to put yeah, yeah, all of that
Speaker 4: kind of ear.
Speaker 2: I'm pretty good.
Speaker 3: Ice cream. I'm so mad.
Speaker 4: So that's exactly the era that we're looking at, like
Speaker 4: where everything.
Speaker 2: Changed was he was a horn bag.
Speaker 3: He was.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he was absolutely loved it.
Speaker 4: There's like a rumor about him that he sent this
Speaker 4: letter to his wife and he was like, I'm coming home.
Speaker 4: Make sure you don't bathe for five days, because apparently
Speaker 4: he liked his women really smelly.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, man, that's like a kink of his of like
Speaker 1: wanting hungent smell.
Speaker 4: For fishing vagina.
Speaker 3: He was like, let's bring that back.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Well, look, there was a show that came out on
Speaker 1: Netflix a couple of years ago called Bridges Him.
Speaker 2: Yes.
Speaker 3: I feel like for historians, I don't know, but.
Speaker 1: I feel like it would be like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: this is like so interesting, and like, I guess you'd
Speaker 1: be fact checking. Can you talk us through, like what
Speaker 1: your first reactions to that show were.
Speaker 4: My first reactions were I had access to the show
Speaker 4: a day early and I was told to like write
Speaker 4: all of the articles about it, which was quite interesting
Speaker 4: because Bridgerton is like, you know, a fictional setting, but
Speaker 4: it's inspired by history, and so there's so much that
Speaker 4: is actually really interested in that. Like one of the
Speaker 4: first articles I wrote on the first day, I don't
Speaker 4: think they wanted me to write this, but I'm like
Speaker 4: I writed it. One of the things that would have
Speaker 4: actually happened in that regency period is one in five
Speaker 4: people had syphilis. So all of the men who were
Speaker 4: like fucking around on the show, they all would have
Speaker 4: been spread in syphilis like crazy. And at the time,
Speaker 4: all of those powdered wigs and everything were invented to
Speaker 4: disguise syphilis because it would lead to hair loss at
Speaker 4: the time, and putting the powder in the wigs was
Speaker 4: they would put lavender and smelling salts in it to
Speaker 4: hide the smell. Because syphilis was not like we have
Speaker 4: it today, like your flesh would fall off. It was
Speaker 4: kind of like leprosy in a way, your hair would
Speaker 4: fall out, and it was basically a death sentence.
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh.
Speaker 4: And their only cure for it was mercury. Putting people mercury.
Speaker 3: There's a common thing today.
Speaker 4: We're all just really hungry. But yeah, so I was
Speaker 4: writing about the fact that these wigs and everything, and
Speaker 4: even some of the masked balls and everything. Part of
Speaker 4: that was to hide your the effect of syphialis so
Speaker 4: the person wouldn't know. There's like there's a whole interesting
Speaker 4: story behind that. Also, you know things like the queen
Speaker 4: in that show is constantly snorting something and everyone's like,
Speaker 4: is the queen doing cocain?
Speaker 2: Yea, what is she sniffing?
Speaker 4: It's called a snuff box, and it's how you would
Speaker 4: have had tobacco at the time.
Speaker 2: It does sniff on tobacco.
Speaker 3: Yeah, basically, yeah, and that's how she smokes.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and they would have their snuff box and it
Speaker 4: would be filled with salts and everything as well. But
Speaker 4: it just looks like she's doing cocaine.
Speaker 3: It look like that. Yeah. I actually, until now I
Speaker 3: thought she was doing.
Speaker 2: You're like queen, No, I just know the one scene
Speaker 2: in there where he goes down and a girl on
Speaker 2: the stairs. It's pretty long.
Speaker 4: Oh, it's beautiful.
Speaker 1: It's a very horny show, like the first one, the
Speaker 1: first all of it. Really, it's just like, I mean,
Speaker 1: the last season was just like so depressing, and it
Speaker 1: was boiling my eyes out Queen Charlotte.
Speaker 4: Well, I boiled my eyes out in Queen Charlotte. But
Speaker 4: I also couldn't stop writing down everything to write about.
Speaker 4: Like one day they have baby Mozart that who comes
Speaker 4: into the show, and I was like, Okay, Mozart gets
Speaker 4: really into Pooh in a few years time, and so
Speaker 4: let's talk about that. He maybe five here, but in
Speaker 4: you know, give him another ten. And he's really into
Speaker 4: sitting on women.
Speaker 3: Like really, yeah, he like has a whole whole.
Speaker 4: He writes songs.
Speaker 3: About it, oh dumps, Yeah, he.
Speaker 4: Writes he writes songs about beautiful Yeah, and they're in rounds.
Speaker 4: They're like you can listen to them now. One of
Speaker 4: them is called le mission Marsh, which means lick me
Speaker 4: in the.
Speaker 3: Arse, like mission marsh, let me.
Speaker 4: Like it's written so everyone can sing it around. It's
Speaker 4: like lick my ass nicely, lick it nice and clean, light,
Speaker 4: nice and clean. Lick my ass like a good roast beef.
Speaker 4: Lick my ass.
Speaker 1: But this isn't his only Yeah, Corny, I think that's
Speaker 1: like the key take out here. It's interesting, right because
Speaker 1: like we all know Mozart, yeah, moatsts yes, But like
Speaker 1: that's never.
Speaker 3: Come up until we are now talking to the kinky history.
Speaker 1: When I was at school and I was studying history,
Speaker 1: all of this, Like, I think that this very important
Speaker 1: information has been left out.
Speaker 2: I imagine Miss Fletcher going and then he would ship
Speaker 2: on their chest.
Speaker 1: Well, feel like a weaving robbed from this information as
Speaker 1: children growing up in our education.
Speaker 3: I think it's nice.
Speaker 4: I know this sounds really weig because we're just talking
Speaker 4: about motes. I wanted to ship on the girls he
Speaker 4: was seeing. But I think in a weird way, it's
Speaker 4: kind of nice because it makes these people who feel
Speaker 4: so big and untouchable like in famous figures, it makes
Speaker 4: them really human again, very human, and you know, yeah,
Speaker 4: it's a very human behavior.
Speaker 2: All do it?
Speaker 4: Do we.
Speaker 2: Toilet sit on people? Sorry clarified. I have a lot
Speaker 2: of kinks, but that is not one.
Speaker 4: But I think it's kind of of nice. And I
Speaker 4: enjoy reading a lot of like the letters they would
Speaker 4: send to one another. Obviously that's why I do this,
Speaker 4: But I think it makes these people very, very human, untouchable,
Speaker 4: and it kind of makes you realize that everyone, even
Speaker 4: these prolific figures, are so real, like they all have
Speaker 4: their kinks and they're fun. Sex was always something we
Speaker 4: were playing with and exploring, and also all of these
Speaker 4: weird desires that we have today that people are like,
Speaker 4: that's not normal. You can trace them all throughout history.
Speaker 4: So it's really a kind of reminder about why we
Speaker 4: need to study it. But yes, and we should absolutely
Speaker 4: tell people. When I teach at the university, I think
Speaker 4: that was the first thing. I'm like, right, let's just
Speaker 4: go through all of their sex history first, and then
Speaker 4: I'll tell you about their literature.
Speaker 1: Like yeah, it's fun, it makes them fun, it's interesting
Speaker 1: and people want to know.
Speaker 3: And I mean I.
Speaker 2: Think it's in a way everyone has a kink as well,
Speaker 2: and there's nothing to be ashamed of it. That's it,
Speaker 2: even if it's like a miniscal one of like you know,
Speaker 2: like I like their back or something like you know,
Speaker 2: everyone has bad yeah, you know, everyone's it has a
Speaker 2: king that they're into.
Speaker 4: Maybe we could like look it back to your inspirations,
Speaker 4: be like I am really into parts, just like James
Speaker 4: Joyce or choose your favorite yeah yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2: What do you say to someone that's in a relationship
Speaker 2: and they have this kink but their partner isn't willing
Speaker 2: to experiment with it and give it the time of day.
Speaker 2: What's the best advice for that?
Speaker 4: My advice has changed only because the feedback I've got
Speaker 4: has changed. I received so many messages from people being like,
Speaker 4: I didn't know how to explain my desires to my husband.
Speaker 4: I was really embarrassed. And then I showed him your
Speaker 4: video on like Jean Jacques Rousseau, and then I was
Speaker 4: able to talk about it. We laughed about it, and
Speaker 4: then we tried it, and I was like, I love
Speaker 4: that looking back to history has actually helped people. So
Speaker 4: I kind of like, if people ask me that question,
Speaker 4: I'm like, here's some pawn from the seventeen hundreds that
Speaker 4: discusses it, because it makes it funny, Like you stop
Speaker 4: taking it seriously. I think you stop being like, oh,
Speaker 4: I'm really really scared to be pegged. That feels so emasculating.
Speaker 4: You can read about this great historical figure who loved
Speaker 4: being pegged, and you have a little giggle, you have
Speaker 4: a little laugh, and then it's kind of like, oh,
Speaker 4: it's very very normal. If they were doing it three
Speaker 4: hundred years ago, we can do it now.
Speaker 1: Speaking of being pegged, what a sega reminded me of
Speaker 1: an article that I saw about Prince Williams.
Speaker 3: Is that true?
Speaker 4: I think I should have looked this up after. I
Speaker 4: was like, okay, we're keeping the royals. I don't want
Speaker 4: to be canceled by Charles right now. When I put it,
Speaker 4: I think I told you this. But when I put
Speaker 4: up my video about the King, Charles now King wanting
Speaker 4: to be a tampon in a.
Speaker 1: Leaked phone that's right, which is a real that's a
Speaker 1: real phone call.
Speaker 4: Yeah, Tampon Gate is a real thing. That was in
Speaker 4: the tabloids. They had a transcript of him talking to Miller.
Speaker 2: And he's with Princess Diana at the time.
Speaker 4: He was with Princess Diana at the time, very controversial,
Speaker 4: and he's like, I want to be a tampon and
Speaker 4: crawl up inside you. I just wish I could live
Speaker 4: there and so on the day. On my end, but
Speaker 4: I was like the day of his coronation, I was like,
Speaker 4: let's remember the time the King wanted to be a tampon.
Speaker 4: From my end, I'm like, I'm doing what I normally do.
Speaker 4: I'm humanizing him. Not to the royalists, they did not
Speaker 4: like that.
Speaker 2: I could imagine well, it's true, he did take it.
Speaker 3: It's so funny. You know what's so annoying about having
Speaker 3: this interview.
Speaker 1: I have this like residual cough and I just want
Speaker 1: to like kiss myself laughing, and I'm like trying to
Speaker 1: hold it in because I'm like, I don't want to
Speaker 1: cough into everyone's ears.
Speaker 3: That was funny.
Speaker 4: It's someone's kink, I'm sure.
Speaker 2: Yeah, don't shame people for their kink.
Speaker 1: Different while to have the current king, Yeah, there's transcripts.
Speaker 2: Of him wanting to surely Henry the eighth had some kinks.
Speaker 4: I mean, I would say that this man probably had
Speaker 4: a fertility kin, a very strong one, like what is it?
Speaker 2: We said it as well, what is it dead? What
Speaker 2: is it? Beheaded?
Speaker 4: Oh my gosh, the headed, separated, died, be headed, separated, survived.
Speaker 4: There you go, all because of kids. So yeah, definitely
Speaker 4: definite fertility kink.
Speaker 1: I would say, as a historian or a kinky historian,
Speaker 1: shall we say, when you first met your partner, did
Speaker 1: you obviously you've introduced, like what you do. Did you
Speaker 1: feel a little bit of pressure heading into the bedroom.
Speaker 4: Yes, I think I feel that in a lot of
Speaker 4: like my sexual experiences, it's kind of like you're very
Speaker 4: much expected to go all out and to be fat,
Speaker 4: like like, I've had no complaints.
Speaker 1: Back.
Speaker 4: No, No, I'm too cocky for my own good. But
Speaker 4: I think it's really interesting.
Speaker 2: I didn't leave for three days. Was very right.
Speaker 4: I had him tied up. He actually when I said
Speaker 4: that I had my I was like, I will trap
Speaker 4: this man. No, we're not going to.
Speaker 3: That's where he still is to this day, after hanging
Speaker 3: in my lounge room.
Speaker 4: You wonder why you've never met him. So here's my
Speaker 4: own gimp. But I actually feel very grateful in a
Speaker 4: lot of ways that I blew up after getting into
Speaker 4: a relationship because I don't. I mean, you probably have
Speaker 4: both experienced this more than I have. The expectations that
Speaker 4: you have when you have this public persona. I just
Speaker 4: don't think I would want to deal with that in
Speaker 4: the bedroom. I genuinely don't. I would always be that
Speaker 4: conscious the whole time and being like is this kinky enough?
Speaker 2: I think? And I think a lot of guys would
Speaker 2: go for you because of like that, like I want
Speaker 2: to see how kinky you know, And I've got this
Speaker 2: king she's gonna want to you know.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think the only thing that could cancel me
Speaker 4: is people being like, she's actually not as kinky as
Speaker 4: she says.
Speaker 2: I went home with her and she didn't even want
Speaker 2: to use a whip.
Speaker 3: She didn't even want to peg me.
Speaker 2: This bitch on the first night didn't even want to peg.
Speaker 3: Met the pressure. I feel like, oh my god.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, I'm just gonna do missionary.
Speaker 2: Okay, I might get on top for a bit.
Speaker 4: Sometimes you do want to have basic, boring vanillas. Absolutely,
Speaker 4: you're tired and you're like, I I just want an orgasm,
Speaker 4: then I want to go to sleep. Yeah, I'm glad
Speaker 4: I'm not in my one night stand fase because that
Speaker 4: would be like, hey, actually you're you're the one who
Speaker 4: misses out.
Speaker 2: Missionary is good, done right, I'm not. I'm not against it.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Missionary, as a little fun fact, came from missionaries like
Speaker 4: the people who would go out to spread the good
Speaker 4: word of Jesus. Because at this time where we're talking
Speaker 4: about that turning point in that seventeenth eighteenth century, they
Speaker 4: decided the church that it was the least pleasurable sex position,
Speaker 4: and so they said that the only permissible position you
Speaker 4: could get into was missionary. So you couldn't do doggie
Speaker 4: style or anything because that brought you too much pleasure,
Speaker 4: and sex was not meant to be enjoyed, so.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well.
Speaker 1: They're not allowed to enjoy it.
Speaker 4: But then allegedly the missionaries went out to spread the
Speaker 4: good word, and the local inhabitants would just laugh at
Speaker 4: them when they thought that this is how Westerners did sex,
Speaker 4: and they were like, absolutely not. And that's how apparently
Speaker 4: how I got the missionary.
Speaker 1: So you're telling me that back in the day people
Speaker 1: were pretending to not enjoy sex because the church was
Speaker 1: telling them they shouldn't.
Speaker 3: Yeah, oh yeah.
Speaker 4: There's like very comical writing by Saint Augustine and he
Speaker 4: is like men and women must descend to the bed
Speaker 4: chambers with an air of melancholy, and they should get
Speaker 4: to the unpleasurable task with regret and resentment. And that's
Speaker 4: like they wanted people to be like upset while they
Speaker 4: were like.
Speaker 3: They're like this is so bad.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they're having the best sex of their life and
Speaker 1: they're like this is terrible.
Speaker 3: I hate so awful.
Speaker 4: But there was a real They really tried to spread
Speaker 4: the belief that if you felt any kind of pleasure
Speaker 4: while doing the act that was as bad as cheating,
Speaker 4: like that was just as sinful. Really yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 4: Christians really are that self hate thing at that time
Speaker 4: that that was their good words?
Speaker 2: So is that why then? No, that was a different reason.
Speaker 2: Sorry why King Henry made the Church of England because
Speaker 2: it could get divorced. That that wasn't because he wanted
Speaker 2: to enjoy sex.
Speaker 1: Let's talk about condoms and how they were created and
Speaker 1: what out of I.
Speaker 4: Love condoms history, I was gonna say, I love condoms,
Speaker 4: so yeah.
Speaker 2: Safe sex.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean again, I'm going back to that sixteen
Speaker 4: hundred time. But some of the og condoms were made
Speaker 4: out of the bladders of dead animals and yeah, yeah,
Speaker 4: so they was sheep, lamb pig intestines were very common
Speaker 4: and they would basically get them on a like a
Speaker 4: phallic mold and you would heat it and shape it
Speaker 4: and then tie it with a ribbon down the bottom.
Speaker 4: So you would have to like physically be doing a
Speaker 4: little bow on your condom, your dead lamb intestine condom,
Speaker 4: and you can imagine the smell.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I was about to say that would stink.
Speaker 4: And they did. They really stunk. And then they were
Speaker 4: very prone to breaking as well, So that was kind
Speaker 4: of the og one. At the same time, in Japan,
Speaker 4: they were using tortoise shells.
Speaker 3: They were making.
Speaker 4: Tortoise shells out.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, really really hard.
Speaker 2: Well it would be a little like a tiny lep.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and like shape round to and also not once
Speaker 4: they didn't have a nice little bow, so not one
Speaker 4: size fits all. But the most interesting part is that
Speaker 4: when condoms were invented, it wasn't for like to stop pregnancy.
Speaker 4: It was to stop syphilis.
Speaker 2: As I say, what was the revelation that they had
Speaker 2: back in the day to use a condoct Yeah? What
Speaker 2: was it?
Speaker 4: To syphilis? So we're trying to stop the spread. It
Speaker 4: was like really bad around that fourteen hundreds time, and
Speaker 4: so they started to create contems.
Speaker 2: Wow, my mind's running wild about the tortoise shell because
Speaker 2: like this, and then how does that work?
Speaker 4: You can look up pictures of them, and I very
Speaker 4: much invite you to look up pictures of them, definitely,
Speaker 4: but but yeah, they're almost like sheeps at The actual
Speaker 4: translation was something along the lines of penis protector, like
Speaker 4: it's very funny, or penis helmet. That's what it is,
Speaker 4: penis helmet. If you translate it directly into English, but
Speaker 4: they were literally like you would just kind of put
Speaker 4: them on the top of the penis.
Speaker 3: This is wild. That is fucking hilarious. Yeah, igine, I'm ready.
Speaker 4: But you imagine like getting hard into a shell as well,
Speaker 4: Like that hurts, Like I'm not a man, but that's
Speaker 4: gonna hurt.
Speaker 3: I just don't get how it works, Like I need
Speaker 3: to look at that.
Speaker 2: Why can they do measurements?
Speaker 3: So what do I look at?
Speaker 4: I would go tortoise tortoise condoms.
Speaker 3: Japan Guys, you should look this up.
Speaker 1: If you're at home right now, I'm not driving, look.
Speaker 2: This right now, or if you're at the gym them
Speaker 2: like this.
Speaker 4: Oh so that's that's your animal in testine condoms. Yeah,
Speaker 4: that's your animal intestine ones. I wish I'm yes, that's it.
Speaker 3: That looks like it.
Speaker 1: It looks like a hard Okay, I was actually imagining
Speaker 1: like a tortoise shell on the.
Speaker 3: Yes, it's like it looks like a dick and it's
Speaker 3: just like hard and just slotting in hard substance.
Speaker 4: And there's also like rigged like.
Speaker 3: Wow, very which I love.
Speaker 4: I mean, that's one of the better forms of contraceptive
Speaker 4: we had because I mean, we didn't really think that
Speaker 4: for a very long time. We didn't really know that,
Speaker 4: you know, sperm in vagina will definitely produce baby. It
Speaker 4: was a lot more superstitious. So condoms came around because
Speaker 4: of syphilis, and we were trying other methods, Like in
Speaker 4: twelfth century Italy, they would tie the testicles of weasels
Speaker 4: to their neck and fies as like witchcraft to stop
Speaker 4: from happening. So you'd be fucking with two weasel balls
Speaker 4: around your neck.
Speaker 3: It's just so wild when you think about.
Speaker 2: Doing this thing, just saying a hair of balls, and.
Speaker 3: It's like that would stink as well, Like I feel like.
Speaker 1: Ass options are smelly, all having stinky sex.
Speaker 4: What we've learned today was like sex in history is
Speaker 4: very very stingc that's the key thing I've taken out
Speaker 4: and people put.
Speaker 2: Maybe we're doing it wrong now, maybe going and freshening
Speaker 2: up and having a shower is wrong. They were doing
Speaker 2: it right.
Speaker 4: No, I don't think it's anything that can turn you
Speaker 4: off more. I don't know how they did it in
Speaker 4: historical times, but like especially if you're going down on
Speaker 4: someone and then suddenly it's just that smell.
Speaker 2: Absolutely not to be real, to be real, they were
Speaker 2: throwing their ship and piss out the windows, so I
Speaker 2: think they'd be a little bit immune to smell, like
Speaker 2: the streets are covered in Yeah.
Speaker 4: So what I really love is that, you know firs,
Speaker 4: I like that beautiful place in front. They would have
Speaker 4: just been shitting like around the castle. Like you didn't
Speaker 4: have bath ROMs. You would just be like walking up
Speaker 4: the stairs, take a ship. People would clean it and
Speaker 4: get rid of it, and then you carry on your day.
Speaker 3: Like it's it's really bizarre. No, it's it's it's it
Speaker 3: was a different words. It was a different time.
Speaker 4: But I always like, you know when people are like
Speaker 4: why what when did we get weird kinks? And I
Speaker 4: was like, well, there's a huge kink for piss and
Speaker 4: shit that happened in the seventeen hundreds, and I think
Speaker 4: it was literally because of this, like you put it
Speaker 4: out of it now, it sounds really radical, like what
Speaker 4: they were really into being shout on. I was like,
Speaker 4: well no, but you've got to remember that people were
Speaker 4: literally walking around being like, oh sorry, I got a
Speaker 4: shit out.
Speaker 2: Pull their pants down and just yeah, and.
Speaker 4: You would have like chamber pots by your bed. So
Speaker 4: if you needed to piss in the middle of the night,
Speaker 4: you just piss into the pot the servant. We'll take
Speaker 4: it away the next day.
Speaker 2: Like getting stage for it.
Speaker 4: No, Like just like the way that we've changed our
Speaker 4: relation to our body, right, because it's not just sex
Speaker 4: that's changed. Now we're like, oh, my toileting is really private,
Speaker 4: no one can see me. Yeah, but that's just again
Speaker 4: at the time, but it was just like the Queen's
Speaker 4: just like like it's fine. Yeah, I mean, it wasn't
Speaker 4: ever something to be ashamed of. Yeah, which I think
Speaker 4: is really crazy.
Speaker 1: It's so crazy now that women like cover their nipples
Speaker 1: and oh yeah grounds and like on the with just
Speaker 1: nipples out.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: That's changing, though, isn't it slowly?
Speaker 3: I don't know, is it?
Speaker 4: I see, I would love to think it is, but
Speaker 4: I think it's so heavily sexualized in our culture that
Speaker 4: will take a very long time.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 4: They did do a really interesting study back in the fifties,
Speaker 4: and it looked at one hundred and thirty different cultures
Speaker 4: around the world and their relationship to boobs, and they
Speaker 4: found that boobs were only sexualized in nine of these cultures,
Speaker 4: and even in those nine, they really differed about what
Speaker 4: they liked, whether they were big, small, long, anything, and
Speaker 4: in the rest of the cultures that they went to,
Speaker 4: they were actually disgusted that we used boobs as anything
Speaker 4: sexual or in foreplay, like they.
Speaker 3: Were really taking a bag.
Speaker 4: Really, but it shows just how we've been really conditioned
Speaker 4: to be like, boobs are sexy, whereas that's not the
Speaker 4: case in every place in the world, and it's something
Speaker 4: that wasn't even the case in history. In the fourteenth century,
Speaker 4: this amazing woman called Agnes Sorel, who was like the
Speaker 4: mistress of the king, would go into the French court
Speaker 4: with her tits out. She had dresses designed just so
Speaker 4: one boob, her favorite boob, would hang out, and she
Speaker 4: would sit around the French court with a boob out
Speaker 4: her favorite boom, her favorite boob would always be out
Speaker 4: like the other.
Speaker 1: Let me out.
Speaker 4: But that was it because she was like, my boobs
Speaker 4: are beautiful, and this one's especially beautiful, and so her
Speaker 4: dress has come down. Here Agnes Sorel again, there's some
Speaker 4: beautiful portraits of her. She's got this like gorgeously, you know,
Speaker 4: like heavenly go about her and then just tit.
Speaker 1: Yeah, even in Italy, recently, there was a few women
Speaker 1: like on the beach with their boobs out, and even me,
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, don't look, because I like, you know,
Speaker 1: look like I was like staring at her nice boobs,
Speaker 1: but I'm like, I didn't want to look like I
Speaker 1: was staring. But then like it's so heavily ingrained that
Speaker 1: sexual that even.
Speaker 3: I was like, normal, like it's fine. I had to
Speaker 3: tell my own self in my head, I'm like, this
Speaker 3: is this is totally okay.
Speaker 2: I'm probably one of those people boobs, boob.
Speaker 4: You're boobs.
Speaker 3: I can see that for you.
Speaker 2: I was maybe from the years of watching wrestling growing up,
Speaker 2: and they were really heavily on the the boobs showing
Speaker 2: from the girl wrestlers sexualized it.
Speaker 4: I feel like that was one of the main reasons
Speaker 4: that people watched the wrestling bouncing.
Speaker 1: When did the whole debate start of like if you're
Speaker 1: a bum guy or where did that happen?
Speaker 4: It really comes down to fashion. Fashion is really influential.
Speaker 4: So when I look at this like that study that,
Speaker 4: I'm like, boobs weren't always sexy. There's other times where
Speaker 4: we start sexualizing different parts of the body. Do you know,
Speaker 4: like those old regency dresses that have the giant bustle
Speaker 4: coming at the back. In the time of the bust
Speaker 4: or coming out the back, boobs became a butt, sorry,
Speaker 4: became really really sexualized, and you'll see the dresses come
Speaker 4: up to here and then the butts are like over exaggerated.
Speaker 4: And that was almost like your og kim k like fascination.
Speaker 4: We're like, we love big bums. And then it was
Speaker 4: like you took the petticoat off and you're like, oh,
Speaker 4: she doesn't really have a big but she does. But
Speaker 4: like you know, things changed because of fashion, and so
Speaker 4: that was one of the things that really started to
Speaker 4: eroticize big bums. At the same time, for most of history,
Speaker 4: we found penises like small penises were ideal. Really yeah,
Speaker 4: they thought you were more intelligent if you had a
Speaker 4: smaller penis, and you were more likely I.
Speaker 5: Can't read, I love it, I.
Speaker 4: Can feel it from here.
Speaker 1: Was clearly a guy with a small penis has made
Speaker 1: that statement.
Speaker 4: It was huge in ancient Greece, Like if you look
Speaker 4: at statues and sculpture from classical everyone's always like, why
Speaker 4: are the penises so small? That's why the penises are
Speaker 4: so small? You were meant to be more intelligent if
Speaker 4: you had a small penis. What's the guy Michaelangelo, Yeah, yes,
Speaker 4: sallis or small penises such of David's tiny little thing.
Speaker 4: But that belief was around for a long time because
Speaker 4: they thought that he would also make a better father because.
Speaker 3: His spam had a shorter distance to travel.
Speaker 2: So explained, Yeah, and then your.
Speaker 4: Good mate Henry the eight is actually really influential in
Speaker 4: changing that because he had a big member and so,
Speaker 4: and he was really self conscious about it and so,
Speaker 4: but he was like a man that was just like,
Speaker 4: we can't get divorced, fu, O'll start a new church.
Speaker 4: And he kind of did that with fashion as well.
Speaker 4: So if you have a look at his armor that
Speaker 4: he used to wear, he has a giant, bloody like
Speaker 4: cock shield and he was kind of like, no big
Speaker 4: dicks are in and that happened. Fashion caught on because
Speaker 4: if the king is starting to wear a giant cock shield,
Speaker 4: cock shields became massive in fashion on a daily basis.
Speaker 4: Like people are really confused now why men in regency
Speaker 4: era just have this giant bulge around their penis, And
Speaker 4: that's when things really change.
Speaker 3: That is hilarious.
Speaker 2: Fascinating.
Speaker 3: It is fascinating. It really is fascinating.
Speaker 4: I'm here for your history of dick sizes.
Speaker 3: Oh my god, I love it.
Speaker 1: I mean it is funny because isn't it well known
Speaker 1: that the Italians and Greeks naturally have bigger So then
Speaker 1: therefore wouldn't that Greek who was it? But that was
Speaker 1: like the Aristotles Socrates, they would have probably been pretending
Speaker 1: to have small.
Speaker 4: They were like, no, no, we are really smart, Like
Speaker 4: it's fine small, but it also makes you laugh and
Speaker 4: think sometimes because obviously the stuff that we know from
Speaker 4: ancient weld, the only people who are really writing are
Speaker 4: you know, you're very intelligent philosophers, and so they could
Speaker 4: have written fucking anything. They're like, no, no, guys, like
Speaker 4: small digs were reallyable, like if you find my skeleton,
Speaker 4: I was so smart, like I could have done anything.
Speaker 4: They really wrote history.
Speaker 1: Men.
Speaker 3: You can't trust them, can you.
Speaker 1: They say they've got small penises because it's fashional, they
Speaker 1: probably really have a big dick versa.
Speaker 3: They can over here.
Speaker 1: And then the micro penis, it was a micro penis.
Speaker 1: Does that mean you were like genius?
Speaker 3: Yeah, absolute genius.
Speaker 2: That's what you want, Like you get anyone off.
Speaker 4: But no, no, no, you're going to produce many airs
Speaker 4: because you have such a small penis. It was just
Speaker 4: going to be like true. But they thought that the
Speaker 4: gods would have blessed you either with brains or a
Speaker 4: penis basically, and they're like, oh, that the body can
Speaker 4: only have so much. So if you have a giant penis,
Speaker 4: you have very little brains.
Speaker 2: Well, men do think with their penis?
Speaker 4: Well, I mean, does make sense.
Speaker 1: Speaking of penises, let's talk about the cockering.
Speaker 3: Let's talk about the cockering. Apparently they were.
Speaker 1: Made from the I can deal with this eyelashes of
Speaker 1: a goat. That is correct sually not no, it's correct
Speaker 1: that google this one if you like pictures of this one.
Speaker 2: How many goats would make a cockery one?
Speaker 4: So it was the eyelid of goat and eyelashes they
Speaker 4: kept everything. So you would take the eyelid of a goat,
Speaker 4: which kind of makes a circle here. You would keep
Speaker 4: the eyelashes for extra stimulation. Now, what they would do
Speaker 4: would be they wet the eyelid, get all soggy tied
Speaker 4: around your penis, and then wait for it to dry.
Speaker 4: And it dried, it hardened like the original cockering. This
Speaker 4: is in thirteenth century China. Oh, just to put it
Speaker 4: into perspective, and it would get harder and harder, and
Speaker 4: then your eye ashes are not only stimulating yourself but
Speaker 4: also the woman that you feel sex with. Yes, And
Speaker 4: they ended up moving to models made of jade and
Speaker 4: ivory after a few years. Maybe too many goats were
Speaker 4: being lost in the process of the cock ring, but
Speaker 4: you can still purchase eyelid cock rings today. It remains
Speaker 4: a fetish, and some people actually swear that it's better
Speaker 4: than silicome. Don't do that.
Speaker 2: I don't do it, but I'm not a big fan
Speaker 2: of a cockring. I've never really.
Speaker 4: Tries vibrating cock rings.
Speaker 2: No, I haven't actually.
Speaker 4: Change out, Okay, especially if you're if you're with a
Speaker 4: woman as well, like that turns your penis into a vibrator.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've just always put it on and been like,
Speaker 2: and it's just it's actually where it's the opposite. It's
Speaker 2: sort of throwing me off. No, kept me. I like,
Speaker 2: it's almost on my mind.
Speaker 4: But I think it's such a different sensation. I say this, like,
Speaker 4: I have a penis, I've heard are you feeling mine
Speaker 4: as well, but I think the vibrations help in a
Speaker 4: lot of ways because normally with cock rings that have vibrators,
Speaker 4: they'll have like a little battery pack almost on them.
Speaker 4: You sit that like next to your balls as well,
Speaker 4: you're getting well, really quadruples stimulation in a lot of
Speaker 4: ways because you're getting your vibrations kind of going towards
Speaker 4: your peace spot. You're getting like the actual vibrating penis,
Speaker 4: you're getting the sensation of going in and out. And
Speaker 4: she's having a wonderful time as well.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've seen one in a girl's top drawer and
Speaker 2: I measured it off and I was like, I.
Speaker 4: Would say, don't use anyone else's cockran.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's probably a good point as well.
Speaker 3: Cock ring what I was looking.
Speaker 2: At it and I was like, yeah.
Speaker 4: I'm one of the like because you use cock rings
Speaker 4: on like strap ons as well. And this one time,
Speaker 4: this girl pulled out a cock ring that had been
Speaker 4: used so many times. There was like hairs on it,
Speaker 4: there was everything, and I just went, I was like,
Speaker 4: you're not seriously like gonna that's not that's not on
Speaker 4: the table.
Speaker 2: Don't you rinse it? I have, well, you can rinse it,
Speaker 2: but like my bush could drawer.
Speaker 3: When I'm drawer is unsanitary.
Speaker 2: Oh no, it's my drawer under my bed. It's like
Speaker 2: a container. And I caught the bush could drawer because
Speaker 2: during intercourse I wushker it out and it's got all
Speaker 2: my whip handcuffs. It's wild.
Speaker 1: I was at a party at Matt's house once and
Speaker 1: he's like, but it was like show and tell.
Speaker 4: He was like, I love it. It's my rope and
Speaker 4: this is my That's the sign of a good party.
Speaker 4: I love when that happens. I love genuinely. Like one
Speaker 4: of my favorite things is when the host is like,
Speaker 4: do you want to see my sex toys?
Speaker 3: But like yeah, like.
Speaker 4: Sure, it's like a lovely intimate part and like we'll
Speaker 4: be like we're really your friends now, like here's my
Speaker 4: horse smart, I go, nag.
Speaker 2: We've dressed my mate up, put him in a choker,
Speaker 2: put the gag yeah, the gag thing on.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 4: I've so many whips broken in the course of a
Speaker 4: house party of everyone being like can we see and
Speaker 4: then then everyone's just got them and I'm like, oh no, I've.
Speaker 2: Got a really good one from Bras and things. It
Speaker 2: was like a Nine Tales fucking really good one that's
Speaker 2: not breaking any.
Speaker 4: That's breaking anytime.
Speaker 3: So everyone.
Speaker 4: Around and sticking around.
Speaker 2: That's what you were.
Speaker 1: How has sex changed from now with our woosh couldraws.
Speaker 3: Between like the last hundred years, do you know what?
Speaker 4: In a lot of ways like it hasn't, which is
Speaker 4: what I think is really interesting. And the biggest thing
Speaker 4: that's happened is that we have body save products now,
Speaker 4: and we have the internet to be able to provide
Speaker 4: educational information. But in terms of like sexual ex ferimentation
Speaker 4: and everything, we have done that for a really long time.
Speaker 4: There's a reason why, you know, when we started to
Speaker 4: really get into sex toys in the last twenty years,
Speaker 4: like so you can get them at supermarkets now, we
Speaker 4: had models for that because we've been using whips and
Speaker 4: dildos and copp rings for hundreds upon hundreds of years.
Speaker 4: The difference is now we have body Safe's products because
Speaker 4: of the likes of a man called Gosnell Duncan who
Speaker 4: was left paralyzed and realized there was no body safe
Speaker 4: alternatives for someone to use a phallic object. So you
Speaker 4: worked with a chemist to invent the first fallic shaped
Speaker 4: dildo that was body safe.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 4: And now that's the kind of formula that we use
Speaker 4: all the time, so like they can withdraw, withstand heat
Speaker 4: and washing in all of this and is sanitary. And
Speaker 4: then come the Internet. People now have access to safe
Speaker 4: ways to incorporate these kids and like ethical ways to
Speaker 4: bring them about. Whereas in history that's what we didn't have.
Speaker 4: We didn't have that education.
Speaker 1: Even hearing you say it, like else, everything sounds so
Speaker 1: stinky and unsafe.
Speaker 3: Surely people are.
Speaker 4: Getting big dizzy from all of this, yeah, nassively, So
Speaker 4: like I mean you talk about, yeah.
Speaker 3: How did people get rid of thrash in the day?
Speaker 1: I once could not get rid of thrash for like
Speaker 1: six months, and I like how people.
Speaker 3: Would die from it? Really?
Speaker 2: Yeah from thrush?
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, what a ship way to die.
Speaker 4: But like the small ways that people died because of,
Speaker 4: like you know, sexual play and everything is really insane.
Speaker 4: Like back in the time. I'm not quite on the
Speaker 4: same thing of frush, but they had to introduce laws
Speaker 4: in the eighteenth century about about strangulation, erotic strangulation because
Speaker 4: so many people were dying from being struck.
Speaker 3: Really, I thought that was a new thing.
Speaker 4: No, no, because this isn't the time where they used
Speaker 4: to hang criminals, and one person reported that the criminals
Speaker 4: all seem to get hard ons as soon as they
Speaker 4: are being hung, and this thing go on like, oh,
Speaker 4: it will cure my impotence if I get into strangulation,
Speaker 4: and so brothels started offering strangulation as an option and
Speaker 4: laws had to end up being introduced because so many
Speaker 4: people died from it. But even the deaths didn't stop
Speaker 4: people from wanting to get strangled.
Speaker 2: Is that is there a proven fact that getting strangled
Speaker 2: does make you or is that just not now?
Speaker 4: No, But I mean there is a thing about like
Speaker 4: blood rushing, so it does happen in some cases, and
Speaker 4: even in one where someone died and went to court
Speaker 4: in the criminal trial, they even say like, oh, but
Speaker 4: he did get briefly hard just before he died, and
Speaker 4: so people caught on. They're like, oh it works. Just
Speaker 4: gotta make sure we cut him down quickly.
Speaker 2: Like yeah, you hear about all that stuff about how
Speaker 2: you tie you choke yourself and have a wake, and like,
Speaker 2: I've never done it.
Speaker 1: I've never done it, but I've heard it a lot.
Speaker 1: And I actually counted to crime documentary very recently about
Speaker 1: a guy who died. He was a famous director in Hollywood. Yeah,
Speaker 1: recently he died from it in a hotel room and
Speaker 1: they were like, is it suspicious, but he had like
Speaker 1: he was all tied up in like this sex position.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 4: Yeah, see, I think think one of the best things
Speaker 4: about having sex education and why it's so important is
Speaker 4: that otherwise we would just be like we were back
Speaker 4: in history and just hanging ourselves to try and feel pleasure,
Speaker 4: whereas now you can go on Google and you can
Speaker 4: be like, how do I safely engage in strangulation play?
Speaker 4: And like one of the main things is that you
Speaker 4: never touch your you don't never block off the air
Speaker 4: tubes like ever. Ever, if you want to do it,
Speaker 4: it's like a firm press on the neck, but not
Speaker 4: where any.
Speaker 2: Of your I go lower yeah, lower, yeah.
Speaker 4: Lower is good, and then hand pressure and so there's
Speaker 4: little things like that, and that's why hashtag education.
Speaker 3: I love some education.
Speaker 1: I mean, this whole episode has been very educational for me.
Speaker 3: I fly like I've got a wealth of knowledge.
Speaker 4: I'd be really impressed with Matt's history facts.
Speaker 2: Well, shout out to my mom and my grandma because
Speaker 2: they're like full historians. They like, oh, I love you.
Speaker 2: True the time they've passed it down to me.
Speaker 3: I love history, but yeah, I feel bad.
Speaker 1: I said to Matt the start of the episode, you
Speaker 1: know one thing, and then he started like here's the
Speaker 1: facts kept.
Speaker 4: Coming and I was like, okay, I'm going to give
Speaker 4: not an honorary history degree.
Speaker 3: I actually bestow you with an A plus. Today I'm
Speaker 3: on an air.
Speaker 4: No, you can an A plus for your Segway.
Speaker 2: Shameless fool.
Speaker 4: Who doesn't.
Speaker 1: It's been so lovely having you on the show. Thank
Speaker 1: you so much for coming in. We've been meaning to
Speaker 1: do this for a while and finally we've got to
Speaker 1: do it. We hope you guys enjoyed this episode.
Speaker 2: Thanks a lot, Thank you, thank you for coming on
Speaker 2: having me