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Speaker 1: It's Anti Poverty Week and the essay Council of Social

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Speaker 1: Services highlighting examples where they say it costs more to

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Speaker 1: be poor, effectively that puts a premium on poverty. They've

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Speaker 1: released their poverty report, the venjamind Index. I think it's

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Speaker 1: what it's called. Ross Womersley, CEOSA Council of Social Services.

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Speaker 2: Good morning Ross, Good morning Matthew.

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Speaker 1: What have you found.

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Speaker 2: Look, what we've tried to do in this report this

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Speaker 2: year is to focus in on why it might cost

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Speaker 2: people who are living on very low incomes more to

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Speaker 2: get by, and so we've done a few little examples

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Speaker 2: that we hope highlights some of those situations. One of

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Speaker 2: the situations is, of course, if you're someone that has

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Speaker 2: a very low income, you don't have the money in

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Speaker 2: your budget to have a big shop, and so that

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Speaker 2: means typically you're not in a position to take advantage

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Speaker 2: of buying in bulk, and so we have used Vegemi.

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Speaker 2: It's an iconic Australian brand, not because they're doing anything

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Speaker 2: at all wrong. They're simply following standard practice. But the

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Speaker 2: outcome for people who are on low income is that

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Speaker 2: you end up paying much more per unit because you

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Speaker 2: can never buy those big jars of Vegemi. You can

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Speaker 2: only ever afford to buy the small ones, and the

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Speaker 2: small ones come at at a bigger price per unit.

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Speaker 1: And that would be across the board, wouldn't it. Forget

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Speaker 1: the vegamite. It's just about everything in that regard. You know,

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Speaker 1: you get a smaller, smaller bottle of dish washing liquid

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Speaker 1: than a big one, it's going to cost you more.

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Speaker 2: That's right. And you know, so it goes for the

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Speaker 2: washing powder and all of those essentials that you have.

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Speaker 2: The way our system is organized and our retail system

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Speaker 2: operates is that those things e the more you can

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Speaker 2: afford to buy, the cheaper it generally years per unit.

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Speaker 2: And that's the same when we're talking about things like

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Speaker 2: telephone mobile phone plans and things. If you can afford

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Speaker 2: to buy a big plan and an ongoing plan and

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Speaker 2: commit to that, then you'll get much more data than

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Speaker 2: the people the people who might not be able to

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Speaker 2: afford to be able to commit to those kinds of

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Speaker 2: expenses on a weekly basis. And so this is a

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Speaker 2: real you know, this is a really interesting and like

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Speaker 2: I said, we've you ed you might because we think

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Speaker 2: it's with a pretty iconic brand in Australia and people

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Speaker 2: will we hope it resonates.

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Speaker 1: With people absolutely. Tell me about the plug of invisibility

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Speaker 1: where people don't know about the services essentially that are

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Speaker 1: available to them.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, this is another one of the interesting ones, of course,

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Speaker 2: and you would be aware that over the last twelve

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Speaker 2: to eighteen months we've done a lot of work with

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Speaker 2: the government, the state government around concessions. But in fact,

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Speaker 2: when it comes to things like ambulance costs, if you're

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Speaker 2: someone who's holding a pension or concession card, you can

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Speaker 2: get access to the concession that is available to help

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Speaker 2: you afford the cost of calling the ambulance. But if

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Speaker 2: you're on some people on lower centrally incomes or who

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Speaker 2: might in fact be earning wages but still living way

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Speaker 2: below the poverty line, which we know there's an increasing

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Speaker 2: number of people doing, those people can't get access to

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Speaker 2: the same level of concession and so you kind of

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Speaker 2: cut out and you treat it as invisible in the

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Speaker 2: system and not the same as people who are otherwise

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Speaker 2: entitled to those concessions.

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Speaker 1: Of this, Russ comes back to the issue we've been

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Speaker 1: talking about pretty much over the last couple of years,

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Speaker 1: and that is trying to get and keep a roof

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Speaker 1: over your head, paying the bills associated with that, and

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Speaker 1: putting food on the table. That's it in a nutshell,

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Speaker 1: isn't it.

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Speaker 2: It is absolutely And I guess the important thing that

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Speaker 2: we're seeing in this, in highlighting these examples, is we're

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Speaker 2: thinking about, well, these are the very real consequences of

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Speaker 2: trying to get by on a low income, and they

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Speaker 2: create extra hardship for people because you don't have the

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Speaker 2: advantages that might be available to others. And in that context,

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Speaker 2: we need our governments and our business sector to be

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Speaker 2: thinking carefully about, you know, how they try to help

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Speaker 2: them address these issues in the lives of people on

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Speaker 2: very low incomes across the scalia.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you've talked and previously as well. But as part

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Speaker 1: of this you calling for penalties, for instance, speeding fines

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Speaker 1: to vary across the board, where someone on a low

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Speaker 1: income pays less for committing an offense. I'm not sure

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Speaker 1: I agree with that, but talk us through the principle.

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Speaker 1: Because I'm sitting on the fence a bit. Is it

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Speaker 1: a good idea or so?

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Speaker 2: This is the issue. It's not that it's not that

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Speaker 2: we shouldn't actually impose fines on people, and we use

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Speaker 2: we've used in our example this year, we've used littering

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Speaker 2: the littering fine because we think it's a little less

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Speaker 2: less sensitive than potentially speeding fines. But the bottom line

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Speaker 2: is here that if you're someone who's wealthy, the pain

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Speaker 2: you experience actually dealing with the issue, dealing with the

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Speaker 2: fine can be relatively minor, where if you're someone who's

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Speaker 2: on a very low income, it can cost you an

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Speaker 2: absolute bomb. So let's take the general littering fine, which

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Speaker 2: in South Australia at the moment's two hundred and ten dollars.

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Speaker 2: If you are someone who's earning two hundred thousand dollars

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Speaker 2: a year, then in fact your income to pay that

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Speaker 2: and the proposed fine, so to pay that will cost

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Speaker 2: you about five percent of your weekly income. But if

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Speaker 2: you're someone who's an aged pensioner, it will cost you

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Speaker 2: something in the region of nearly forty percent of your

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Speaker 2: weekly income to pay that fine. Now, we're not arguing

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Speaker 2: that there shouldn't be fines for the things that we

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Speaker 2: don't want as a community people to be doing, But

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Speaker 2: what we are arguing is that it's just very unfair.

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Speaker 2: The consequences for that age Penimer are in fact really

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Speaker 2: profound because if they have to find that money that week,

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Speaker 2: they actually have to forego an awful lot where the person,

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Speaker 2: you know, some cool cat like I know, the five

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Speaker 2: double A. You know, presenters are really well paid on

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Speaker 2: two hundred grand a year, and you know for you

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Speaker 2: it's going to be a mere blit, a five percent

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Speaker 2: of your income for the week.

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Speaker 1: Although you know, there's a very simple principle at play here,

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Speaker 1: and this is why I'm sitting on the fence on

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Speaker 1: this A bit ross is you don't commit the crime,

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Speaker 1: you don't pay the fine.

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Speaker 2: Well, this is true, and of course that principle still holds.

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Speaker 2: The thing that we're reaching into and trying to highlight

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Speaker 2: here is that for some of some people, and particularly

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Speaker 2: people on low incomes, these have profoundly more impact. And

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Speaker 2: so if you're someone who in practice is on a

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Speaker 2: job seeker at the moment and you're given one of

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Speaker 2: those fines, it's going to take fifty three percent of

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Speaker 2: your weekly income to pay that. Now what are you

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Speaker 2: going to have to give up? And we know how

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Speaker 2: hard it is to keep a brief over her head.

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Speaker 2: We know how hard it is to get people. Give

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Speaker 2: people enough so that they can cover all the basics

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Speaker 2: that enable them to keep living a reasonable line. That's

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Speaker 2: going to have much profound consequences for that individual than

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Speaker 2: it is for the cool cats that have got there.

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Speaker 2: Two hundred grand a year coming towards them all.

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Speaker 1: Right, Ross Romasley, appreciate your time.

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Speaker 2: Thank you, You're really welcome.

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Speaker 1: Matthew CEO Social Service or SA Council rather for Social

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Speaker 1: services here in the state,