WEBVTT - The ‘subterfuge’ behind the March for Australia 0:00:01.120 --> 0:00:08.640 I'm Ruby Jones and you're listening to seven AM. When 0:00:08.680 --> 0:00:11.360 a group of neo Nazis recently took to the streets 0:00:11.360 --> 0:00:14.640 of Melbourne, the state's premier said that Nazis don't belong 0:00:14.800 --> 0:00:17.880 in Australia. But while that might be a good sentiment, 0:00:18.239 --> 0:00:21.159 is it actually true today? Are and a writer and 0:00:21.280 --> 0:00:25.120 Quikey contributor so less little on Australia's white nationalist past, 0:00:25.440 --> 0:00:27.720 and in how failing to reckon with it, We've set 0:00:27.720 --> 0:00:36.040 the stage for the movement to grow. It's Wednesday, August 0:00:36.080 --> 0:00:43.440 twenty seven, so it's lest I thought we could begin 0:00:43.520 --> 0:00:47.680 by talking about the marches in Melbourne earlier this month. 0:00:47.840 --> 0:00:50.640 Tell me about what we saw on the streets. 0:00:51.040 --> 0:00:56.120 What we saw is an organized group of people assembled 0:00:56.240 --> 0:00:59.800 at a ridiculous time of the day. So I think 0:00:59.840 --> 0:01:02.280 of is it about, you know, midnight one o'clock where 0:01:02.320 --> 0:01:04.120 they decide to take to the streets. 0:01:04.319 --> 0:01:07.040 Revelers enjoying a night out in Melbourne have been left 0:01:07.120 --> 0:01:10.840 stunned after a large group of masked men marched through 0:01:10.880 --> 0:01:11.560 the CBD. 0:01:14.560 --> 0:01:17.480 They were there, they are in numbers, They were a 0:01:17.560 --> 0:01:21.720 threatening group. They were still yelling stuff like Australia for 0:01:21.800 --> 0:01:25.520 the white man, which you know, I don't even have 0:01:25.560 --> 0:01:28.920 the words to describe that sort of sentiment. 0:01:34.959 --> 0:01:38.080 Around one hundred people dressed in all black stormed down 0:01:38.120 --> 0:01:42.200 Burke Street Mall while police kept a watchful eye. 0:01:41.959 --> 0:01:45.600 And we also saw, you know, a bunch of police 0:01:45.760 --> 0:01:50.280 actually enable them to walk through without much of a problem. 0:01:50.760 --> 0:01:55.720 The reports were stating that the only person who ended 0:01:55.800 --> 0:01:59.360 up taking some sort of action to oppose them at 0:01:59.400 --> 0:02:02.480 that hour of the morning was a homeless man and 0:02:02.520 --> 0:02:05.720 he ended up being assaulted by the march attendees. 0:02:06.120 --> 0:02:09.079 All of the masked except for leader, well known neo 0:02:09.200 --> 0:02:10.680 Nazi Thomas. 0:02:10.240 --> 0:02:17.720 So there was a number of them. There was a 0:02:18.000 --> 0:02:21.160 sizeable group, and they were marching for quite a while 0:02:21.760 --> 0:02:24.480 through the city without any problem. 0:02:24.520 --> 0:02:27.359 Well let's talk a little bit more about the response 0:02:27.480 --> 0:02:29.960 from police, from politicians, from media. 0:02:30.000 --> 0:02:34.200 Well, firstly, I just found it extraordinary, and the police 0:02:34.440 --> 0:02:37.840 responses were very much that they couldn't do anything, that 0:02:37.880 --> 0:02:39.520 their hands were tied. 0:02:39.639 --> 0:02:43.120 Powers, police could do little but follow the white supremacists, 0:02:43.200 --> 0:02:44.280 that there was nothing. 0:02:44.040 --> 0:02:45.840 They could do to stop this group. 0:02:46.000 --> 0:02:50.200 Police powerless following the crowd through the heart of the city. 0:02:50.360 --> 0:02:54.359 The fact that police were there and couldn't do anything 0:02:54.400 --> 0:02:55.120 about it. 0:02:55.160 --> 0:02:56.880 That just makes things so much worse. 0:02:56.960 --> 0:02:59.560 And as somebody who had been at the march for 0:02:59.639 --> 0:03:03.120 Palace Stone only a few days earlier, we got so 0:03:03.280 --> 0:03:07.560 opposed by police that they actually shut down a bridge 0:03:08.000 --> 0:03:11.400 with the Public Order Response Team and the amount of 0:03:11.480 --> 0:03:15.440 police and the ordinary police in order to stop a 0:03:15.480 --> 0:03:20.680 group of peaceful protesters from being on a bridge. They 0:03:20.680 --> 0:03:27.040 can mobilize forces and be so aggressive against peace protesters, 0:03:27.120 --> 0:03:32.519 what was their problem doing anything to stop a significantly 0:03:32.600 --> 0:03:35.680 smaller group of Nazis. It was very very select But 0:03:35.800 --> 0:03:39.320 more than that, it was hand ringing from the police 0:03:39.360 --> 0:03:42.680 about how they were powerless to do anything, and then 0:03:42.800 --> 0:03:46.840 the government responding about how you know, Nazis have no 0:03:47.000 --> 0:03:49.800 place in society and they were going to give police 0:03:49.920 --> 0:03:51.760 more powers to do something. 0:03:51.880 --> 0:03:55.360 The premier condemning the group Nazis don't belong in this 0:03:55.520 --> 0:03:58.280 country and they know it. That's why they hide behind 0:03:58.360 --> 0:04:01.760 masks in the dark, not afraid of these goons. But 0:04:01.840 --> 0:04:03.760 we will not tolerate them either. 0:04:04.040 --> 0:04:06.640 So it was like a call and response, if you like. 0:04:07.440 --> 0:04:10.680 And what that actually means is that there's going to 0:04:10.760 --> 0:04:14.240 be tough for controls on any sort of protest. 0:04:14.320 --> 0:04:17.560 And that sort of statement this idea that this sort 0:04:17.560 --> 0:04:20.880 of thing has no place in Australia. You hear words 0:04:20.960 --> 0:04:24.560 like that often from politicians after something like this happens, 0:04:24.839 --> 0:04:27.640 and it sounds good and you'd want it to be true, 0:04:27.920 --> 0:04:29.799 but is it. 0:04:29.800 --> 0:04:34.719 It's not true at all. Australia very much has been 0:04:34.839 --> 0:04:40.440 set up by ideas of racism and white supremacy. This 0:04:40.560 --> 0:04:45.360 country was established on the legal fiction of Terranualius and 0:04:45.400 --> 0:04:48.880 then you know, for decades this country had the White 0:04:48.880 --> 0:04:54.000 Australia Policy, where there was actual barriers put in place 0:04:54.040 --> 0:04:58.080 for non white migration, and this fed a lot of 0:04:58.080 --> 0:05:02.480 the national character. Still see remnants of the Wide Australia 0:05:02.520 --> 0:05:07.120 policy today. So the Constitution still contains the right to 0:05:07.200 --> 0:05:11.719 exclude people from being able to vote based on race. 0:05:11.920 --> 0:05:14.680 It still contains a race power, so the right to 0:05:14.800 --> 0:05:19.360 make laws against certain races of people, and it still 0:05:19.400 --> 0:05:24.839 contains the right to exclude jewel citizens from entering federal Parliament, 0:05:24.839 --> 0:05:27.440 which is the one that people don't talk about. But 0:05:27.560 --> 0:05:31.560 that jewel citizen ban was actually to stop Indian and 0:05:31.680 --> 0:05:35.880 Chinese and other migrants of color from ever being eligible 0:05:35.960 --> 0:05:40.560 to sit in parliament. Because the Australian Parliament was built 0:05:40.640 --> 0:05:44.600 up to be filled by British subjects who had become 0:05:44.640 --> 0:05:49.160 Australian citizens, not people of color who had migrated, you know, 0:05:49.279 --> 0:05:52.200 during the Gold Rushers and all that. So with that 0:05:52.560 --> 0:05:58.240 history comes a long, long history of white supremacy and 0:05:59.000 --> 0:06:01.400 the ability for fascist to gain grown. 0:06:02.760 --> 0:06:06.360 So how does all of this this history, how does 0:06:06.400 --> 0:06:09.520 it create the conditions that we see today when we 0:06:09.560 --> 0:06:12.280 have marches like the one that we just saw in Melbourne. 0:06:12.440 --> 0:06:17.760 Well, people aren't aware of the Constitution and it's racial 0:06:17.960 --> 0:06:21.599 things that exist to this day. And the more that 0:06:21.720 --> 0:06:24.360 ignorance is allowed to flourish and the less aware the 0:06:24.360 --> 0:06:27.280 people are, the more space that we give for these 0:06:27.360 --> 0:06:32.160 groups to latch onto the disenfranchised and grow their movement. 0:06:34.360 --> 0:06:47.320 Coming up, who's really behind the march For Australia. The 0:06:47.400 --> 0:06:51.640 Victorian government is proposing changes to protest laws. They say 0:06:51.680 --> 0:06:54.680 it's an attempt to crack down on neo Nazi activity. 0:06:54.760 --> 0:06:59.440 They want a ban on face coverings and certain symbols. 0:07:00.040 --> 0:07:03.440 Premier de siner Allen announced an overhaul of existing anti 0:07:03.480 --> 0:07:06.880 protest laws late last year after a series of violent 0:07:06.880 --> 0:07:10.480 attacks on places of worship for the Jewish and Muslim communities. 0:07:10.640 --> 0:07:14.280 What impact do you think that that will have well. 0:07:14.760 --> 0:07:18.720 When we're all in COVID lockdown. There was a massive 0:07:18.800 --> 0:07:24.600 Black Lives Matter rally and technically by wearing face masks 0:07:24.720 --> 0:07:28.240 at that time, we were both breaking and adhering to 0:07:28.360 --> 0:07:31.520 the law. And by that I mean that there was 0:07:31.600 --> 0:07:34.920 the COVID restrictions that are in place that required everyone 0:07:35.000 --> 0:07:39.200 to be wearing masks everywhere, so you know, for health reasons, 0:07:39.240 --> 0:07:43.400 we were adhering to the law, but also we were 0:07:43.440 --> 0:07:46.440 breaking the law because the government was stating at that 0:07:46.520 --> 0:07:50.720 time that wearing face masks at protests was illegal. But 0:07:51.760 --> 0:07:55.680 face masks at rallies are also used as a tool 0:07:55.960 --> 0:08:00.440 to protect protesters from things like paper spray. When police 0:08:00.480 --> 0:08:04.720 decide to be incredibly liberal with pepper spray on protesters 0:08:04.840 --> 0:08:09.760 and talk about banning symbols, who decides what is a 0:08:09.800 --> 0:08:14.560 symbol of protest, what is a symbol of hate and 0:08:14.640 --> 0:08:17.640 hate speech and what's objectionable. 0:08:17.080 --> 0:08:19.760 The legislation we have in the Parliament to make hate 0:08:19.840 --> 0:08:23.360 speech a crime, where it should be to ban face 0:08:23.480 --> 0:08:27.000 master stamp out extremist behavior a protests where there's an 0:08:27.000 --> 0:08:31.360 opportunity to do more, and I will always grab that opportunity. 0:08:30.760 --> 0:08:34.880 And at any given time those definitions can be redefined, 0:08:35.679 --> 0:08:39.160 and protest is a part of a healthy democracy and 0:08:39.320 --> 0:08:43.440 needs to exist. The right to assembly is in the 0:08:43.600 --> 0:08:47.880 UN Declaration of Human Rights. The more that process is 0:08:48.000 --> 0:08:52.440 legislated against, the less able people are to exercise that 0:08:52.559 --> 0:08:53.480 democratic right. 0:08:53.800 --> 0:08:55.880 So what do you think a good response would be then, 0:08:56.040 --> 0:08:58.960 to neo Nazis, to rising fascism. 0:08:59.280 --> 0:09:03.520 I think a real good response for be honesty. I'm very, 0:09:03.720 --> 0:09:06.600 very huge on the truth telling agenda, and the more 0:09:06.679 --> 0:09:10.120 that we talk about Australia's history, and the more aware 0:09:10.679 --> 0:09:14.199 the people are about the Australia's history, the less likely 0:09:14.240 --> 0:09:19.559 they are to reinforce false narratives and therefore the less 0:09:19.679 --> 0:09:23.280 likely they are to give power to Nazi groups. So 0:09:23.600 --> 0:09:28.360 neo Nazi ideals will get more and more marginalized and 0:09:28.400 --> 0:09:30.360 shifted to the side, to the point of where they 0:09:30.400 --> 0:09:34.480 are objectionable by a vast majority of the public, not 0:09:34.600 --> 0:09:37.679 where a vast majority of the public will sit there 0:09:37.720 --> 0:09:40.520 and go, you know, on this front, they kind of 0:09:40.559 --> 0:09:44.000 have a point and start to join them. And that 0:09:44.080 --> 0:09:48.360 honesty needs to extend to how the media and how 0:09:48.400 --> 0:09:54.120 the politicians do respond to neo Nazi groups and neo 0:09:54.200 --> 0:09:55.280 Nazi ideals. 0:09:55.640 --> 0:09:57.480 Can we talk a little bit about that, about the 0:09:58.000 --> 0:10:01.360 media and the way that you think these issues should 0:10:01.400 --> 0:10:04.840 be covered, because you know, it's obviously the interest of 0:10:04.880 --> 0:10:08.360 these groups to get media reports about what they're doing. 0:10:08.400 --> 0:10:11.720 It gives them publicity, but you know, ignoring them entirely 0:10:11.840 --> 0:10:14.160 is obviously awesome a problem. So what do you think 0:10:14.200 --> 0:10:17.720 the right conversation is to be having about what is 0:10:17.880 --> 0:10:19.880 a growing white nationalism threat? 0:10:20.320 --> 0:10:23.400 Yeah, Like, for me, this is a really live question 0:10:23.679 --> 0:10:26.920 because some people do argue that the more media coverage 0:10:26.960 --> 0:10:29.559 they get, the more they're able to build their momentum. 0:10:29.720 --> 0:10:34.240 So you know, if they gain the publicity, more people 0:10:34.360 --> 0:10:37.640 notice that they're gathering, more people take an interest and 0:10:37.720 --> 0:10:40.400 seek them out, and therefore they can grow their movement 0:10:40.920 --> 0:10:44.040 and there is merit in that. But for me, I 0:10:44.160 --> 0:10:47.960 sort of see and perhaps I'm approaching this as somebody 0:10:48.000 --> 0:10:51.920 who is Indigenous and a woman, but you know, if 0:10:51.960 --> 0:10:54.720 you try and pretend that they don't exist, then you 0:10:54.800 --> 0:10:57.480 are kind of contributing in a way to this great 0:10:57.480 --> 0:11:02.440 Australian silence and array that I'm very very much opposed to. 0:11:02.679 --> 0:11:05.600 So I do feel that they need coverage, and I 0:11:05.720 --> 0:11:10.439 do feel that there needs to be honesty in that coverage. 0:11:10.520 --> 0:11:13.720 I think that perhaps the media needs to get better 0:11:13.720 --> 0:11:17.880 at framing the fact that these are objectionable, you know, 0:11:18.040 --> 0:11:20.880 far eye actors who threaten our society. 0:11:21.400 --> 0:11:24.720 And this weekend Celesti, there are marchers planned in every 0:11:24.720 --> 0:11:28.480 capital city. They're being builders the March for Australia, and 0:11:28.640 --> 0:11:31.360 the people claiming to organize these say that they are 0:11:31.640 --> 0:11:36.960 ordinary Australians who are worried about migration. But the slogans 0:11:37.000 --> 0:11:38.960 do have something in common with the protests that we've 0:11:39.000 --> 0:11:41.720 just talked about when Nazis say things like Australia for 0:11:41.920 --> 0:11:44.520 the white men. So how should we interpret this? 0:11:45.080 --> 0:11:48.880 Yeah, there's been a lot of dialogue with regards to 0:11:48.960 --> 0:11:54.760 who's actually organizing it, and the organizers themselves have been 0:11:54.880 --> 0:12:01.120 taking up space in social media spheres refuse claims that 0:12:01.200 --> 0:12:05.400 the marches are being organized by neo Nazis. But the 0:12:05.480 --> 0:12:07.760 fact of the matter is that there are a lot 0:12:07.800 --> 0:12:11.800 of anti fascist researchers out there who spend a lot 0:12:11.800 --> 0:12:17.559 of time drilling down into the telegram groups and exposing 0:12:17.600 --> 0:12:20.760 them and seeing what it is that they're doing. So 0:12:21.200 --> 0:12:23.400 a lot of the key figures who have been behind 0:12:23.480 --> 0:12:27.880 these march are neo Nazi figures that this country is 0:12:27.960 --> 0:12:32.880 already quite aware of. They're using some calling and rallying 0:12:33.000 --> 0:12:36.640 chants about you know, this great country and all that 0:12:36.679 --> 0:12:40.200 sort of stuff in order to bring people into the 0:12:40.280 --> 0:12:43.960 fold who might feel threatened by the invasion, a process 0:12:44.040 --> 0:12:50.240 that happen every year now or by the Palestine protests. 0:12:51.320 --> 0:12:54.600 People from the mainstream who do feel a little bit 0:12:54.640 --> 0:12:59.280 disenfranchised by the way they see Australia going to them 0:12:59.280 --> 0:13:03.480 all or except society are probably latching on and thinking 0:13:03.559 --> 0:13:07.280 this is a way to express themselves without doing the 0:13:07.360 --> 0:13:13.200 research as to what they're actually affiliating themselves in. But 0:13:14.000 --> 0:13:18.640 it is very deliberate to pick up on these people 0:13:18.679 --> 0:13:24.840 within white Australia who are disenfranchised and bring them into 0:13:24.880 --> 0:13:30.000 the fault by using a degree of subterfuge. And in 0:13:30.120 --> 0:13:33.959 my opinion, that's what the March for Australia is, a 0:13:33.960 --> 0:13:39.839 broader manifestation of wellthless, thank you so much for your 0:13:39.840 --> 0:13:42.200 time today, no worries, thank you for having me. 0:13:53.960 --> 0:13:57.600 Also in the news today, Iran's ambassador to Australia has 0:13:57.640 --> 0:14:00.440 been expelled and we'll have seven days to leave the country, 0:14:00.480 --> 0:14:04.360 along with three other Iranian officials. It follows Asio announcing 0:14:04.400 --> 0:14:07.120 it has intelligence that Iran directed at least two major 0:14:07.160 --> 0:14:10.720 anti Semitic attacks in Australia in twenty twenty four, Lewis's 0:14:10.760 --> 0:14:14.120 Continental Kitchen in Sydney on October twenty and the Addas 0:14:14.280 --> 0:14:17.920 Israel Synagogue in Melbourne on December sixth. AZEO says the 0:14:17.960 --> 0:14:20.560 attacks were directed by Iran with the aim of messing 0:14:20.560 --> 0:14:23.920 with social cohesion in Australia, but the Iranian embassy was 0:14:23.960 --> 0:14:27.600 not involved in the attacks, nor any Iranian diplomats in Australia. 0:14:29.200 --> 0:14:31.680 And two police officers are dead after a shooting at 0:14:31.720 --> 0:14:35.200 a rural property in Poora Punka in northeast Victoria. The 0:14:35.240 --> 0:14:38.480 police were attending the property, about three hundred kilometers northeast 0:14:38.480 --> 0:14:41.280 of Melbourne to serve a warrant. I'm Ruby Jones. This 0:14:41.400 --> 0:14:42.920 is seven am. Thanks for listening.