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Speaker 1: Hello and welcome to a special episode of Pit Talk,

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Speaker 1: a Fox Sports and Speed Cafe Formula one podcast. On

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Speaker 1: today's episode, Alpine confirms that Ossie reserve driver Jack Doan

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Speaker 1: will make the step up to Formula One next season.

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Speaker 1: My name is Michael Lomonado, motorsport writer for Fox Sports Australia.

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Speaker 1: It's great to have your company and the company of

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Speaker 1: my co host from Speed Cafe. He's in New South Wales,

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Speaker 1: but today he's a Queenslander. It's Matt Cosh.

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Speaker 2: No, I'm definitely not a Queenslander. I am proud, proud

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Speaker 2: South Australian. I sit here with a cart and of

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Speaker 2: ice coffee Farmers Union in my head. I'm not making it,

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Speaker 2: not making it up. I actually do have a bit

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Speaker 2: of a few wick going. And what you also can't

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Speaker 2: see is that I also devoured, slightly earlier, an enormous

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Speaker 2: packet of fruit chocks. Is I'm not a Queenslander. You

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Speaker 2: can take you can take the boy out of South Australia,

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Speaker 2: but you can never take our Grand Prix.

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Speaker 1: You've been drinking Farmer's nice coffee for the last two

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Speaker 1: years of waiting for me to reference that.

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Speaker 2: But I just let me sadly for all you. This

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Speaker 2: is an interactive session for everyone listening. You can't see it, but.

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Speaker 1: Oh my goodness, he's got two.

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Speaker 2: I'm holding up for three going. I've got three going there,

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Speaker 2: and I've got more in the fridge. It's going to

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Speaker 2: be a long night people, if you can't already get

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Speaker 2: that from us. We are slightly delirious, and I think

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Speaker 2: for good reason we've got another Australian bloody Formula One mate.

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Speaker 1: Yes, it is great, it's really it is sinking in

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Speaker 1: for me as well that this is fairly momentous. You know,

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Speaker 1: we don't get new Formula One drivers every day, I

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Speaker 1: suppose because we felt like this was building towards this

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Speaker 1: conclusion for a little while, and we've been following Jack's

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Speaker 1: progress obviously for quite a few years. But it is

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Speaker 1: exciting to know we're guaranteed at least to Australian Formula

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Speaker 1: One drivers on the grid next year. We might talk

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Speaker 1: about the possibility of the third later on. Jack Dowan

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Speaker 1: will be the nineteenth Australian Grand Prix driver to enter

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Speaker 1: a Formula One Grand Prix. The sixteenth the starter race

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Speaker 1: presumably will race next year and Matt You and I

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Speaker 1: were on a media call with him shortly after the

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Speaker 1: announcement was made, so on Friday evening, depending on me

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Speaker 1: listening to this podcast a couple of days ago, what today,

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Speaker 1: And it was interesting to get a sense of what

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Speaker 1: he thought about the moment, because while it did feel

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Speaker 1: like it was building towards this, there have been several

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Speaker 1: hurdles in the culmination of him becoming a Formula one driver,

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Speaker 1: whether that be he's so so Formula two campaign last

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Speaker 1: year or that Carlos science pursuit instigated by Alpine the

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Speaker 1: last few months. But it certainly seems like he's taking

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Speaker 1: this obviously very seriously. But he sinking in for him,

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Speaker 1: is now the massive mission before him.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I definitely got that impressions or it hasn't sunk in.

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Speaker 2: The penny hasn't really dropped yet. I guess that makes

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Speaker 2: sense because he's he's been in and around Alpine for

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Speaker 2: a long time, so nothing will really have changed, Nothing

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Speaker 2: will really change until the start of next year when

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Speaker 2: he's the one climbing into the carr You know, he

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Speaker 2: signed a bit of paper, he told us he signed

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Speaker 2: that on the Wednesday following the Belgian Grand Prix. He

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Speaker 2: was still at SPA, bashing around doing some tire testing

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Speaker 2: in the in the twenty four car for Our Pain.

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Speaker 2: Did that with his his dad there watching. His dad

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Speaker 2: was the witness has that been doing five time murder

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Speaker 2: GP or Motorcycling World Champion is the witness to the

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Speaker 2: sign of a new country. I thought that was pretty cool.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, it's it hasn't sunk in yet. The way

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Speaker 2: he was speaking, it was though it was this nebulous

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Speaker 2: idea that at some point was going to become real.

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Speaker 2: But really isn't isn't. Yeah, I mean even just some

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Speaker 2: of the things he said that, you know, it was

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Speaker 2: like it's taken a long time to sink him because

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Speaker 2: it's been so much time. I've been so close. I

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Speaker 2: just couldn't believe it until it was almost announced, Like

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Speaker 2: today there is exact words. So, yeah, this is momentous.

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Speaker 2: This is a lifetime's ambition and you put it in

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Speaker 2: good context. Off the top, there we've had in the

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Speaker 2: nearly seventy five year history of Formula One or of

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Speaker 2: the World Championship. I won't say Formula one, but of

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Speaker 2: the World Championship, there's been only eighteen Australians in the

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Speaker 2: sports history. Three of them mid named Brabham, so I

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Speaker 2: guess that.

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Speaker 1: Helps, but it's even less likely.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, So if your name's not Brabham in you're Australian,

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Speaker 2: you've got very little chance of getting to Formula one. However,

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Speaker 2: if your name's doing getting to the top of Motorsport's

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Speaker 2: motorsports pile pretty good odds well.

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Speaker 1: It's impressive. He must really still be singing in for

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Speaker 1: him as well, because the first time Alpines actually managed

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Speaker 1: to get its reserve driver into one of its cars

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Speaker 1: in Formula one, isn't it.

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Speaker 2: I love the little teaser. I love that little teaser

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Speaker 2: that they put out on social media just before the announcement,

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Speaker 2: just sort of playing on the Oscar Piastre. It's my

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Speaker 2: understanding that you know that tweet from August twenty two,

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Speaker 2: all those years ago. I'm disappointed that Jack didn't sees

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Speaker 2: the opportunity to win the internet with some sort of

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Speaker 2: I understand that Alpine, with my approval, has signed me

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Speaker 2: as a race driver or something to that effect.

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Speaker 1: I'd have been worried had that been me out of

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Speaker 1: copied and paste that from Osco Piastri's time roone and

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Speaker 1: forgotten to change the words to reflect the correct order,

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Speaker 1: correct out coverment. But yes, IVI di chids, that's fine. Look,

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Speaker 1: the bigger opportunity is still coming next year. I thought

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Speaker 1: it was interesting too, some of the things he was

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Speaker 1: talking about about his preparation for next year, because he

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Speaker 1: does still have and the press release pointed this out

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Speaker 1: his reserved duties for the rest of the year, and

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Speaker 1: that involves they really are quite involved this year because

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Speaker 1: obviously we know that Alpine is not in a great

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Speaker 1: competitive state right now, and it's really been relying on

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Speaker 1: him being one of the three drivers really to feed

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Speaker 1: back into the development of the car him by the simulator,

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Speaker 1: and I suppose a little bit via some private testing

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Speaker 1: with the current car and the fact that actually a

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Speaker 1: lot of his off track work has been about almost

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Speaker 1: simulate the driving styles of Pierre Gasley and Esteban Ochon.

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Speaker 1: He hasn't really had time this season to think about

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Speaker 1: how he wants to drive his car, and for the

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Speaker 1: next six months he's hoping that you'll be able to

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Speaker 1: allow some of his characteristics bleed into the program, because

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Speaker 1: of course the car is developing this year is the

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Speaker 1: car he'll be driving next year.

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Speaker 2: It's interesting because part of what got Jack across the line.

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Speaker 2: Obviously there's the fact that he's an Alpeen Academy driver

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Speaker 2: and they have to promote out of that. But a

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Speaker 2: lot of what he's done to put himself in the

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Speaker 2: pole position for the seat this year next year is

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Speaker 2: the work he's been doing over a race weekend, but

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Speaker 2: not at the track. I remember back at the Monaco

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Speaker 2: Grand Prix, on the Friday alpine work we're all at sea,

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Speaker 2: Jack put basically an overnighter in at the sim fleshed

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Speaker 2: out a couple of setup options that they had, and

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Speaker 2: comes Saturday, the car was transformed and that was credited,

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Speaker 2: which you know, there's not many teams out there who

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Speaker 2: do this credit the simulator driver on a raceca It's

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Speaker 2: not the only time that's happened. Throughout the course of

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Speaker 2: the year. Jack has been identified a couple of times

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Speaker 2: by both Pierre Gasley and Destabanokhon as being a valuable

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Speaker 2: member of that team for the contribution that he's putting

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Speaker 2: him behind the scenes. And you know, we've got to

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Speaker 2: also remember that Jack forego racing himself to focus on this.

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Speaker 2: I mean, okay, he doesn't have a whole lot of

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Speaker 2: time to race, given that the formulae schedule is about

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Speaker 2: thirty nine races long and takes every waking moment that

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Speaker 2: you have. But you know, he's still willingly put his

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Speaker 2: career on hold. He took a gamble on doing that,

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Speaker 2: put his faith in the team, and he's been rewarded

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Speaker 2: for I think that's that's a great little story, just

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Speaker 2: aside from the fact that he's Australian. You know, he

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Speaker 2: did the right thing by the team and our peene.

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Speaker 2: It's not without its failings, very well documented, but to

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Speaker 2: its credit, Yeah, they did the right thing by him

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Speaker 2: as well, so that's too, that's a positive. But yeah,

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Speaker 2: now Jack has to focus on himself again and work

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Speaker 2: out what he wants out of the car, out of

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Speaker 2: the team, and how to go and get that so

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Speaker 2: that when he gets from the grid in Melbourne, which

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Speaker 2: is his first race, he is ready to get going. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Really worthwhile reminding that he wasn't racing this year and

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Speaker 1: he had opportunities to race other categories this year. Alping

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Speaker 1: wanted him as the full time reserve driver and that

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Speaker 1: was very much a choice he had to make and

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Speaker 1: it's riskier than it looks in retrospect, it's very easy

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Speaker 1: to say, well, now he's got the contract, and of

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Speaker 1: course he got the contract, he was the reserve driver,

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Speaker 1: and that many other high profile drivers out there. But

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Speaker 1: there was every chance, and Jack said he'd never allowed

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Speaker 1: him to think about it, but there's every chance that

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Speaker 1: things might just simply not have gone his way. We

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Speaker 1: don't know how the driver market moves. It's totally unpredictable.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you could even predicted how Alpine was not

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Speaker 1: even going to perform on track this year, but the

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Speaker 1: changes that would be going off track. So things have

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Speaker 1: worked out because he did show that faith in the team,

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Speaker 1: but also the extent to which he was pushing behind

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Speaker 1: the scenes to make sure he was front of mind

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Speaker 1: has delivered. So the gambles well and truly paid off.

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Speaker 1: You mentioned there, Matt that now focus has to turn

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Speaker 1: to twenty twenty five and that is the challenge for

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Speaker 1: him now, because you'll be making a debut in Formula

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Speaker 1: One with a team that is unlikely to be competing,

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Speaker 1: certainly on the top five. And we'll wait and see

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Speaker 1: how the rest of this year goes, of course, before

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Speaker 1: guessing where Alpine will land at the start of next year,

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Speaker 1: but on current form is probably at best sixth fastest

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Speaker 1: and at worst we'll be performing chaotically. Because we still

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Speaker 1: don't really have a great read of where this year's

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Speaker 1: Alpine car is from the press release. We're going to

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Speaker 1: assume this is a one year deal as well, because

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Speaker 1: it really only talks about twenty twenty five, and perhaps

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Speaker 1: that's just Alpine not wanting to make long term vets

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Speaker 1: given the change it's happening behind the scenes. But nonetheless

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Speaker 1: this does mean it is quite a high pressure chance

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Speaker 1: for Jack next year, doesn't it.

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Speaker 2: It does. An interesting thought occurred to me. If this

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Speaker 2: contract was signed on the Wednesday following the Belgian Grand Prix,

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Speaker 2: who signed it? Oh, yes, good question, because Ollie Oakes

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Speaker 2: hadn't actually formally started. He's still not actually named as

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Speaker 2: a director of our pea must have, I must add,

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Speaker 2: and Bruno Famine technically ended his time on the Monday

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Speaker 2: after the Belgian Grand Prix, so anyway, that's that's beside

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Speaker 2: the point. But yeah, well, my mind is going off

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Speaker 2: on all sorts of tangents. If there's a gravel trap,

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Speaker 2: my mind is in here.

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Speaker 1: After your third carton of iceed coffee.

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Speaker 2: The fourth is coming very soon, I can tell you

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Speaker 2: that much. Yeah, the team is an interesting position, and

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Speaker 2: Jack has the potential to either benefit heavily out of

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Speaker 2: that or be dealt a very swift exit from Formula one.

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Speaker 2: Because typically you look at a team like our Peanut's

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Speaker 2: in a rebuilding phase, it's not expected to score good results.

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Speaker 2: You think it's a bit of a free kick because

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Speaker 2: you can't. You can't fail. You're not expected to succeed,

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Speaker 2: and as a result, you can't fail. However, the the

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Speaker 2: midfield now is so condensed and so competitive that one

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Speaker 2: good weekend and one good result can turn you season on.

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Speaker 2: It's oad, so you've got to be there or thereabouts

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Speaker 2: to be able to capitalize on those. So there is

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Speaker 2: now pressure in those cars and on those drivers that

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Speaker 2: once upon a time wasn't there. So that nice cruisy

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Speaker 2: entry into Formula one he doesn't really have that. But

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Speaker 2: by the same token, he doesn't have the expectation of

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Speaker 2: going out and winning races, so we can't judge him

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Speaker 2: on anything he does before the summer break next year,

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Speaker 2: Franz tossed the Toro Rosso slash AFFATOWERI team boss said

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Speaker 2: that it takes three years for a driver to get

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Speaker 2: to grips with Formula One. We don't know that Jack's

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Speaker 2: got that. As you say, he's got a one year deal.

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Speaker 2: Probably it hasn't been specified. I've heard two years, but

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Speaker 2: let's take it at face value and say it's a

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Speaker 2: one year deal. You know, it's a it's a big

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Speaker 2: job that he's now got a huge job and putting

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Speaker 2: any sort of expectations on him now because we don't

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Speaker 2: know where the team stacks up, and I think you're

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Speaker 2: right in that probably six best is where it's fighting

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Speaker 2: next year. Yeah, yeah, he's going to look across the garage.

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Speaker 2: Pierre Gasly's no slouch, is a race winner of course,

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Speaker 2: So yeah, it's it's going to be fascinating and it's

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Speaker 2: going to be a long season, longer than he's ever raced.

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Speaker 2: He hasn't raced for a year, so there'll be a

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Speaker 2: little bit of rust on like there was an Oscar

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Speaker 2: at the start of his F one career. To be

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Speaker 2: it's going to be a fascinating story and one that

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Speaker 2: I'm very keen to to stay across every step of

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Speaker 2: the way because this starts, you know, there's a little

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Speaker 2: bit of preseason testing, then more into Melbourne and then

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Speaker 2: more into the thick of the season. It's you know,

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Speaker 2: he's not going to have a chance once things get

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Speaker 2: going to stop and take breath.

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Speaker 1: Very little preseason testing these days, I guess his advantage

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Speaker 1: over other rookies, although we don't know who all the

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Speaker 1: other rookies will be next year, but I'm thinking particular

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Speaker 1: of Oliver Behman, who's likely to be an on track

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Speaker 1: rival next year based on where the cars are this year,

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Speaker 1: is that he's doing an immense amount of private testing

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Speaker 1: because he's not undertaking a Formula two campaign this year,

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Speaker 1: around five thousand kilometers in a variety of older spec

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Speaker 1: ALPNE cars, including ones designed under this set of regulations

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Speaker 1: of the twenty twenty two car anyway and some in

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Speaker 1: this year's car, plus FP one sessions. And he as

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Speaker 1: the benefit of being fully embedded in the LPN team

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Speaker 1: this year, so there will be none of that acclimatization

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Speaker 1: to the people he's working with, needing to meet new

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Speaker 1: faces and put names to faces and all that sort

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Speaker 1: of thing. He will be able to hit the ground

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Speaker 1: running in that sense, but it will be that workload

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Speaker 1: and schedule and of course just pressure associated with racing

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Speaker 1: in Formula One and racing at the top level of

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Speaker 1: this discipline of motorsport, that he'll have very little time

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Speaker 1: to adjust to and sort of as you alluded to,

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Speaker 1: the difficulty will be regardless of whether he gets essentially

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Speaker 1: let's say a six month grace peod because it's after

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Speaker 1: the mid season break that maybe decisions will be made.

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Speaker 1: It's that if well Alpine's only good at some tracks

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Speaker 1: and some of those traction in the first half of

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Speaker 1: the year, they're the ones he'll need to perform well

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Speaker 1: at because even if he looks okay against Pierre Gazli,

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Speaker 1: that all the tracks that the car might be no

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Speaker 1: good at, that's just not going to really wash all

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Speaker 1: that well. And that's going to be sort of part

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Speaker 1: of the interesting challenge next year. But it does depend

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Speaker 1: on where our car starts next year, and there's certainly

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Speaker 1: optimism that the car might start, certainly start better than

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Speaker 1: it started this year, but start even better that it

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Speaker 1: ends this year. That's certainly going to be the aim.

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Speaker 1: But there is one additional element to this, Matt, and

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Speaker 1: that is the prospect that Australia might have three drivers

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Speaker 1: on the grid next year. It's only happened once before

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Speaker 1: in history in nineteen seventy six the United States Grand Prix,

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Speaker 1: Alan Jones, Larry Perkins and one time start to Warwick Brown.

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Speaker 1: There was three entrants at the nineteen seventy seven British

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Speaker 1: GROMP that was Jones, Vern Schuppat and Brian McGuire. At

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Speaker 1: McGuire did not pre qualify the days of pre qualifying

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Speaker 1: to get three drivers on the grid, though, Matt, we'll

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Speaker 1: need Daniel Ricardo to get a contract renewal and that's

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Speaker 1: very much still up into the air and this week

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Speaker 1: something we'll probably talk about a little bit more in

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Speaker 1: detail next week, but started with Helmut Marco saying that

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Speaker 1: Liam Lawson, the Red Bull reserve driver, will definitely be

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Speaker 1: on the grid with one of the Red Bull teams,

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Speaker 1: which puts the pressure not just on Daniel but obviously

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Speaker 1: also on Sergio Perez. It's hard to know what the

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Speaker 1: odds are of getting that third driver on the grid

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Speaker 1: next year at this point.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's a big unknown and argue probably the

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Speaker 2: most interesting unknown left in the driver market now because

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Speaker 2: outside of now we've got our peen locked in, you've

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Speaker 2: really only got the outing seat, which is not not

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Speaker 2: one that many are fighting over. Let's be honest, because

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Speaker 2: of the state that that team is currently in, it's

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Speaker 2: got a lot of work to do. Not to say

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Speaker 2: it can't be done, but it's got a lot of

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Speaker 2: work to do. The only other drive left is is

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Speaker 2: the RB seat. And if Liam Lawson is coming into

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Speaker 2: the program, well you've got five drivers hypothetically there. If

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Speaker 2: you're assuming that Daniel stays on and on only four cars,

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Speaker 2: I mean, are they going to go back to the

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Speaker 2: Christian Clean via tanitonio Ley driver sharing arrangement? I can't

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Speaker 2: see that happening. So logically, you know, at the moment,

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Speaker 2: Daniel doesn't have a contract. It's an awkward truth, but

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Speaker 2: it is the truth. Daniel doesn't have a deal. But

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Speaker 2: at the same time, Sergio Perez needs to improve. But

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Speaker 2: if Sergio doesn't improve, what does it do? Does it

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Speaker 2: demote Perez, promote Daniel? Does it just put lim into

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Speaker 2: that seat straight away into the senior Red Bull team?

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Speaker 2: These these are big questions. I can't remember the last time,

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Speaker 2: because even Max didn't go straight into the scene your team.

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Speaker 2: I reckon the last time a Red Bull driver went

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Speaker 2: straight into that team. It probably would have been Leotsy

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Speaker 2: back when they didn't have Toro Rosso. Totally different because

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Speaker 2: that's been the function of Yeah, that's the function of

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Speaker 2: having a second team where you can you can sort

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Speaker 2: of blood some of these guys and quality assure some

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Speaker 2: of these guys to an extent. So I mean, putting

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Speaker 2: Leam in that seat is a huge risk, but is

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Speaker 2: it any riskier than Putt Daniel in that seed or

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Speaker 2: keeping lem And that's that's what the next little bit

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Speaker 2: for Red Bull is all about, while at the same

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Speaker 2: time trying to reverse the trend of giving up ground

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Speaker 2: to McLaren and Mercedes and you know, from what we've

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Speaker 2: seen even Ferrari at times. So that's now for me,

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Speaker 2: the big off track interest for the remainder of this

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Speaker 2: season and probably for the next even just a month

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Speaker 2: or so through until we get to Singapore, I think

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Speaker 2: is where Sergio should be just about safe. But come Sergio,

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Speaker 2: Come Singapore. For Sergio, that's kind of a it's a

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Speaker 2: watershed moment. It's another one of these mid season breaks,

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Speaker 2: and it's another one of these crisis points where if

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Speaker 2: he's not up for it, you've got to get rid

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Speaker 2: of him. Because, as you spoke about, on the podcast

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Speaker 2: earlier in the week. You can't afford to keep a

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Speaker 2: driver that's not performing because you will at some point

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Speaker 2: inevitably lose out to attend it is performing. In McLaren's

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Speaker 2: performing very very well.

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Speaker 1: It feels like a red line is surely keeping hold

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Speaker 1: of that constructor's championship lead. And I mean, look at

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Speaker 1: in Perry's hands. That match has been made clear. Red

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Speaker 1: Bull Racing really doesn't want to have to sack in

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Speaker 1: particularly given it gave him a new contract a couple

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Speaker 1: of months ago for next year. That is up in

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Speaker 1: the air obviously, but I mean, in my opinion, this

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Speaker 1: is something we'll talk about another day because we've got

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Speaker 1: to wrap up, but it's hard to He'll need some

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Speaker 1: really truly significant performances in the second half of the

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Speaker 1: year to convince Red Bull not just to see through

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Speaker 1: to the end of this season, because that's the easier decision,

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Speaker 1: but to have belief that he can do the job

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Speaker 1: next year, when all teams will start from zero and

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Speaker 1: when we expect McLaren, maybe Mercedes and Ferrari to be

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Speaker 1: starting level with Red Bull Racing, and we know opportunity

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Speaker 1: to build a buffer to carry Peries through the year.

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Speaker 1: So in that sense, you might argue that it's maybe

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Speaker 1: slightly greater chance than fifty percent that Daniel Ricardo might

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Speaker 1: get that seat at some point. But there's a lot

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Speaker 1: of racing to go, a lot of this season still

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Speaker 1: to come, and that is a question very much for

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Speaker 1: another day, because that's all the time we've got for

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Speaker 1: this special episode of Pit Talk. Maatt, I'll let you

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Speaker 1: get back to your Farmer's Union ice coffee. We'll be

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Speaker 1: back in only a couple of days to review all

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Speaker 1: the actions of the Dutch Grand Prix. Can subscribe to

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Speaker 1: pit Talk wherever you get your favorite podcast, and you

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Speaker 1: can leave us a rating at a review as well,

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Speaker 1: and don't forget you can keep up to date with

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Speaker 1: all the latest F one news throughout this weekend at

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Speaker 1: foxsports dot com, dot a U and Speedcafe dot Com.

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Speaker 1: From Matt Cosh and me Michael Lomonado. Thanks very much

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Speaker 1: for your company and we'll catch you in just a

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Speaker 1: few days.