WEBVTT - The lives of asylum seekers on Nauru

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<v Speaker 1>From Schwartz Media.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm Ruby Jones. This is seven am on the tiny

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<v Speaker 2>island nation of Nhru. At this moment, close to one

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<v Speaker 2>hundred asylum seekers are living hand to mouth. The overwhelming

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<v Speaker 2>majority are still waiting for their refugee status to be determined,

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<v Speaker 2>with no time frame for a decision. In the meantime,

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<v Speaker 2>they're forbidden to work and a reliant on a tiny

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<v Speaker 2>stipend not enough for three meals a day. The government

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<v Speaker 2>has for the most part succeeded in keeping offshore processing

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<v Speaker 2>off the front page. And there was a time a

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<v Speaker 2>year ago when the center on Naru was completely empty.

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<v Speaker 2>But as boats continue to arrive, Niru is still central

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<v Speaker 2>to the Australian government's immigration response. Today contributor to the

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<v Speaker 2>Saturday Paper, Denham Sadler on life on Naru and whether

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<v Speaker 2>the policy of offshot attention will ever end. It's Thursday,

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<v Speaker 2>November twenty eight, So didn't let's start with this point

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<v Speaker 2>in time last year when Nauru Detention Center was finally empty,

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<v Speaker 2>and it did, for a moment feel like this could

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<v Speaker 2>be the end of offshore detention completely. There was even

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<v Speaker 2>a celebration, wasn't there when the last person left.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, there was.

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<v Speaker 3>It was kind of this big moment that was celebrated,

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<v Speaker 3>especially by advocates that have been campaigning for that for

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<v Speaker 3>more than a decade. By that point, people were excited

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<v Speaker 3>and thought maybe this could be a changing point. The

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<v Speaker 3>last people had been kind of taken to Australia or

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<v Speaker 3>resettled somewhere else, and there were hopes that that offshore

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<v Speaker 3>regime might either be changed or there'd just be less

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<v Speaker 3>of a focus on the offshore detention. But yeah, if

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<v Speaker 3>you were paying full attention, it was pretty clear that

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<v Speaker 3>there wasn't actually a big change.

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<v Speaker 4>We need to make sure that we send a strong

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<v Speaker 4>message that people who come in an unauthorized fashion won't

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<v Speaker 4>be settled in Australia and that is what we have done.

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<v Speaker 4>Operations Sovereign borders is in place.

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<v Speaker 3>There were still hundreds of millions of dollars going towards

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<v Speaker 3>keeping the regional processing centers up and running. There were

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<v Speaker 3>still some people on p ANDNG as well, so the

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<v Speaker 3>regime was still ongoing. And in the time when the

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<v Speaker 3>center was actually empty, Australia entered into a new contract

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<v Speaker 3>with a company to run the offshore processing facilities, and

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<v Speaker 3>that was with a very controversial US company that mainly

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<v Speaker 3>runs private prisons and immigration detention centers in the US.

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<v Speaker 3>So there was never any real signal from the government

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<v Speaker 3>that it was going to end, that they were going

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<v Speaker 3>to shut down the center, that they were moving away

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<v Speaker 3>from it.

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<v Speaker 1>It was kind of just the fact that it was

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<v Speaker 1>briefly empty.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, So the center was sitting there open, a bit empty,

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<v Speaker 2>essentially really a symbol of Australia offshort attention policy and

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<v Speaker 2>a reminder of what could happen if you did try

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<v Speaker 2>it to get to Australia by boat. So when did

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<v Speaker 2>that change? When did people start getting sent there again?

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<v Speaker 1>It changed very quickly.

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<v Speaker 3>It was a matter of months that it was actually empty,

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<v Speaker 3>and then there were some stories of boats actually arriving

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<v Speaker 3>in Australia.

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<v Speaker 2>It's understood a boat from Indonesia with twelve people on

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<v Speaker 2>board made it to shore in a very remote part

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<v Speaker 2>of the Kimberly region in Western Australia known as the

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<v Speaker 2>Ajo Peninsula.

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<v Speaker 3>The ones that got the most coverage were kind of

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<v Speaker 3>people showing up in quite regional Western Australia and just

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<v Speaker 3>getting found by locals and then these people were eventually

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<v Speaker 3>taken to Nauru. But there's been quite a lot over

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<v Speaker 3>the end of last year and started this year of

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<v Speaker 3>people arriving on Asam seeker boats and these people were

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<v Speaker 3>taken to Nahru. So it was really a matter of

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<v Speaker 3>months that the center was back up and running with

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<v Speaker 3>people actually in it. Currently there are just under one

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<v Speaker 3>hundred people. We know, there's just over eighty people that

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<v Speaker 3>are now living in the community on Nauru, so they're

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<v Speaker 3>free to move around the island, but they can't leave

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<v Speaker 3>the island. And there's just over ten people still in

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<v Speaker 3>close detention facilities, so they're in that one facility.

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<v Speaker 1>So yeah, just under one hundred or there at the moment.

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<v Speaker 2>And as you say, boats have started to arrive in

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<v Speaker 2>Australia once again, do we know why that is?

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<v Speaker 1>We don't really.

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<v Speaker 3>I think you could talk to a lot of people

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<v Speaker 3>and get a lot of different answers, and I think

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<v Speaker 3>at its base, we're also not really sure that they

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<v Speaker 3>have increased a lot. I think there's so much secrecy

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<v Speaker 3>and a lack of transparency about boat arrivals and especially

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<v Speaker 3>in terms of boat turnbacks as well, that we really

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<v Speaker 3>don't know if there's just more making it further, if

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<v Speaker 3>there's more being reported or if there has been an increase.

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<v Speaker 3>But if you ask the opposition, they'd point to what

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<v Speaker 3>they say is kind of a lack of funding within

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<v Speaker 3>Home Affairs and the.

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<v Speaker 1>Detection ability of the Border Force.

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<v Speaker 3>And they'd also point to a lot of the debate

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<v Speaker 3>last year around the High Court decisions around immigration detention,

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<v Speaker 3>and they've been saying that kind of the people smuggling

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<v Speaker 3>organizations are using that to kind of sell this package

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<v Speaker 3>to get to Australia, saying there's been a change and

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<v Speaker 3>you're more likely to be able to stay and not

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<v Speaker 3>go to immigration detention. They would be arguing that the

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<v Speaker 3>government would push back very strongly against that, and we

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<v Speaker 3>actually really don't know if there has been an increase

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<v Speaker 3>and why there has been. It says, just not enough

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<v Speaker 3>information to know that.

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<v Speaker 2>And can you tell me a bit more about the

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<v Speaker 2>people there and what their life is like.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, So I spoke to four people for this story

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<v Speaker 3>on the weekend and they all had pretty similar experiences.

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<v Speaker 3>They're living in this massive facility that's known as RPC three,

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<v Speaker 3>so Regional Processing Center three, which is a big complex

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<v Speaker 3>unit of small one beardroom, one bathroom facilities. Back when

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<v Speaker 3>there were a lot more people on NU. It was

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<v Speaker 3>used for families and families with young children, but at

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<v Speaker 3>the moment it's pretty much all young men. And they

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<v Speaker 3>describe the main thing is just the uncertainty. They all

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<v Speaker 3>mentioned to me, they just don't know what's happening. A

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<v Speaker 3>lot of them hadn't heard of NU when they were

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<v Speaker 3>taken there. They didn't know where they were. And then

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<v Speaker 3>the other main thing that they all meant was just

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<v Speaker 3>the real struggle to get by day to day and

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<v Speaker 3>to afford basic necessities. So the Australian government is providing

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<v Speaker 3>them with two hundred and thirty dollars a fortnite.

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<v Speaker 2>So what does that look like for them? Two hundred

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<v Speaker 2>and thirty dollars a fortnight in the room.

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<v Speaker 3>It looks like really scraping to get by. I think

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<v Speaker 3>with the cost of living is extremely high on Nauru,

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<v Speaker 3>and especially the cost of basic food and vegetables and

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<v Speaker 3>water is extremely high. They say they spend about seventy

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<v Speaker 3>dollars a fortnight just on drinking water, on bottled water,

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<v Speaker 3>and try and afford to pay for phones and for

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<v Speaker 3>data to talk to their family as well. And I

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<v Speaker 3>think every person I spoke to so they couldn't afford

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<v Speaker 3>three meals a day. They're eating less than they should

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<v Speaker 3>be and they can't afford kind of good fruit and vegetables.

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<v Speaker 1>There are health services.

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<v Speaker 3>On Nauru, and one man told me that he goes

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<v Speaker 3>to them and he's feeling weak and tired and they say, well,

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<v Speaker 3>you need to eat more food, more vegetables, and he

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<v Speaker 3>just can't afford it. Like one of the men said,

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<v Speaker 3>a small cabbage can cost fifteen or twenty dollars. They

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<v Speaker 3>all say it's just not enough money to just be

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<v Speaker 3>able to feed themselves alone to live.

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<v Speaker 2>So essentially they're living in poverty.

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<v Speaker 3>Absolutely, yeah, they definitely would be. Yeah, they're not not

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<v Speaker 3>at forty three meals a day. And on top of

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<v Speaker 3>that most of them and they haven't had their refugee

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<v Speaker 3>status determined, and then until that's determined, they're not allowed

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<v Speaker 3>to work either. So even if they could find work

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<v Speaker 3>on Nauru while they're living in the community, they're not

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<v Speaker 3>allowed to. So it is entirely down to that two

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<v Speaker 3>hundred and thirty dollars.

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<v Speaker 2>After the break. How the government defends the two hundred

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<v Speaker 2>and thirty dollars a fortnight it expects people to survive on,

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<v Speaker 2>so get the majority of these people on Naru at

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<v Speaker 2>this moment, they're waiting to hear about their refugee status.

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<v Speaker 2>They don't yet know how that's going to pan out,

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<v Speaker 2>what kind of information are they getting about that process,

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<v Speaker 2>and what is communication with the Australian government.

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<v Speaker 1>Like they say, they're getting very little information.

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<v Speaker 3>That was the main concern, along with the money issues,

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<v Speaker 3>was just a lack of transparency around any sort of

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<v Speaker 3>timeframes of when they will be decided and what will

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<v Speaker 3>happen to them whichever way the decision goes. One of

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<v Speaker 3>the men I talked to, so he has had one

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<v Speaker 3>of his claims rejected and he's kind of getting threatened

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<v Speaker 3>or says he's getting threatened to return to his home

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<v Speaker 3>country and that's going through appeals at the moment. But

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<v Speaker 3>everyone's got obviously having their status determined and just say

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<v Speaker 3>they haven't got any clear idea of what's going to

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<v Speaker 3>happen to them and when it will happen. The Asamseika

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<v Speaker 3>Resource Center has now talked to the majority of people

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<v Speaker 3>that are being held on Nauru and they say that

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<v Speaker 3>nearly a quarter of these people are suffering severe mental

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<v Speaker 3>health conditions already and that one in ten are experiencing

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<v Speaker 3>suicidal ideation.

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<v Speaker 1>So this process is really.

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<v Speaker 3>Having a toll on these people already and we're not

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<v Speaker 3>sure how long they'll be there.

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<v Speaker 2>And at this point, after more than a decade, almost

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<v Speaker 2>fifteen years of offshore detention, we know so much about

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<v Speaker 2>the cruelty of it and the damage that it does

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<v Speaker 2>to people, both their physical health and mental health. So

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<v Speaker 2>what is the Australian government saying about this practice now

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<v Speaker 2>and why it's continuing to hold people on naru.

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<v Speaker 3>It's still quite a similar argument that has been across

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<v Speaker 3>governments and across the decade in terms of deterrence. There's

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<v Speaker 3>still that argument of saying we're doing this to stop

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<v Speaker 3>people getting on these dangerous boats to come to Australia.

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<v Speaker 3>We're doing this to help people. That's the main argument.

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<v Speaker 3>There's obviously a lot of the political arguments and a

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<v Speaker 3>general fear to kind of do any changes because there

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<v Speaker 3>will be massive political attacks.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean last week there was another boat arrival on

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<v Speaker 2>an island just off the Northern Territory and the Opposition

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<v Speaker 2>leader Peter Dutton, he went on Sky News and he

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<v Speaker 2>said that it's clear that people smugglers believe they are

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<v Speaker 2>back in business.

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<v Speaker 5>Well, it's clear that the people smugglers believe that they're

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<v Speaker 5>back in business. This is now the twenty third boat

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<v Speaker 5>arrival and it's another one that's been undetected. Our borders

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<v Speaker 5>are not secure under the Urbanezy government, which is a.

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<v Speaker 2>Very old coalition line on this. But as we approach

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<v Speaker 2>another election, what do you think all of this means

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<v Speaker 2>for Australia's immigration policies. How do you think it's going

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<v Speaker 2>to play out over the next few months.

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<v Speaker 3>I think, particularly in light of the government's announced legislation

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<v Speaker 3>recently in terms of the Immigration Attention decision and around

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<v Speaker 3>actually being able to pay another country to offer visas

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<v Speaker 3>to these people and then put them into attention if

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<v Speaker 3>they say no, I think that just signals a hard

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<v Speaker 3>line approach to this issue and a government that kind

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<v Speaker 3>of just wants it to go away and not being

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<v Speaker 3>the center of attention. I think even among advocates or

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<v Speaker 3>people that feel strongly about this, there wasn't much awareness

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<v Speaker 3>around how many people are on NORU at the moment.

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<v Speaker 1>I think people recognize.

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<v Speaker 3>The celebration last year and there was some hope that

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<v Speaker 3>things had changed and there weren't people in offshort attention,

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<v Speaker 3>but there are a lot of people and I don't

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<v Speaker 3>think there's a lot of awareness around that yet, and

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<v Speaker 3>I think that's how the government would like it. I

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<v Speaker 3>think they'd very much prefer this to be out of sight,

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<v Speaker 3>out of mind. But this issue did come up recently

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<v Speaker 3>at a Senate Estmates hearing that Home Affairs were peering out.

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<v Speaker 6>The Asylum Seeker Resource Center reported last month that the

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<v Speaker 6>majority of people held in close detention on Nauru have

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<v Speaker 6>recently been moved into the community, with many now struggling

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<v Speaker 6>to afford three meals a day.

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<v Speaker 3>They are aware of the issues around money and not

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<v Speaker 3>being out to afford meals, and in response, the representative

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<v Speaker 3>from Home Affairs said that that two hundred and thirty

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<v Speaker 3>dollars have been cited based on cost of living on

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<v Speaker 3>Nauru and that they thought it was adequate, but it's

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<v Speaker 3>constantly being reviewed.

0:11:39.960 --> 0:11:43.640
<v Speaker 7>There are a range of services provided to transferrees currently

0:11:43.679 --> 0:11:47.719
<v Speaker 7>living in the community on Naharu. They are provided by

0:11:47.760 --> 0:11:51.040
<v Speaker 7>the Government of Naharu in accordance with the Regional Processing arrangements.

0:11:52.160 --> 0:11:57.400
<v Speaker 7>They include a number of welfare services, health services and

0:11:57.520 --> 0:11:59.640
<v Speaker 7>other sort of general activities.

0:11:59.640 --> 0:12:04.160
<v Speaker 3>To call the arrangements, but basically all we've heard from

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<v Speaker 3>Home Affairs is that there's a processing and quarantine phase

0:12:07.600 --> 0:12:10.480
<v Speaker 3>which is enclosed attention and then they're released to the community.

0:12:10.520 --> 0:12:13.440
<v Speaker 3>But I couldn't get any information on how long that

0:12:13.559 --> 0:12:15.480
<v Speaker 3>is or if it's a set time or anything like that.

0:12:16.240 --> 0:12:19.120
<v Speaker 2>And Australia's treatment of refugees, this is something that you

0:12:19.240 --> 0:12:21.680
<v Speaker 2>followed for a long time and written many stories about,

0:12:21.760 --> 0:12:24.720
<v Speaker 2>and I just wonder, is it your sense that this

0:12:24.880 --> 0:12:28.760
<v Speaker 2>is now Australia's forever policy because it's been this way

0:12:28.920 --> 0:12:32.880
<v Speaker 2>my entire adult life, So what would it take for

0:12:32.960 --> 0:12:34.280
<v Speaker 2>things to look any different.

0:12:34.720 --> 0:12:37.439
<v Speaker 3>It is very hard to see it changing. It's been

0:12:37.440 --> 0:12:40.320
<v Speaker 3>that way my entire adult life too, and I think

0:12:40.360 --> 0:12:44.000
<v Speaker 3>it's advocates of finding it very hard to change kind

0:12:44.000 --> 0:12:47.320
<v Speaker 3>of the public perception, and that's how you go about change,

0:12:47.320 --> 0:12:49.200
<v Speaker 3>I suppose. I think there was hope last year, like

0:12:49.240 --> 0:12:54.040
<v Speaker 3>we discussed with Nuru being empty, but the actual machinations

0:12:54.080 --> 0:12:55.960
<v Speaker 3>behind it meant it was never going to be empty

0:12:55.960 --> 0:12:58.240
<v Speaker 3>for very long and there wasn't any real change or

0:12:58.280 --> 0:13:02.720
<v Speaker 3>positive movement from the government. I think there's always a

0:13:02.720 --> 0:13:04.280
<v Speaker 3>bit of hope, but I think when you see the

0:13:04.360 --> 0:13:07.200
<v Speaker 3>Labor government announced policies like the last couple of weeks

0:13:07.200 --> 0:13:10.560
<v Speaker 3>we've seen and in general, continuing this offshore regime, it

0:13:10.640 --> 0:13:13.679
<v Speaker 3>is very hard to see there'll be any positive change.

0:13:13.320 --> 0:13:14.040
<v Speaker 1>For these people.

0:13:15.400 --> 0:13:17.520
<v Speaker 3>Yes, there's less people on Nauru, but there still are

0:13:17.520 --> 0:13:19.840
<v Speaker 3>people there and they're living in poverty, and I think

0:13:20.280 --> 0:13:21.920
<v Speaker 3>for a lot of people it's easy either to not

0:13:21.960 --> 0:13:23.360
<v Speaker 3>know about it or not think about it.

0:13:27.040 --> 0:13:29.280
<v Speaker 2>Dennim, thank you so much for your time, Thanks for

0:13:29.360 --> 0:13:50.000
<v Speaker 2>having me. Also in the news today, Christian White, the

0:13:50.040 --> 0:13:52.920
<v Speaker 2>new South Wales police officer who tays it ninety five

0:13:53.000 --> 0:13:55.640
<v Speaker 2>year old Claire Noland in a nursing home in Kuma

0:13:55.800 --> 0:13:59.640
<v Speaker 2>last year, has been convicted of manslaughter, which carries a

0:13:59.720 --> 0:14:03.640
<v Speaker 2>Maxan prison sentence of twenty five years. White's barrister had

0:14:03.640 --> 0:14:06.840
<v Speaker 2>attempted to argue that White had used reasonable force when

0:14:06.880 --> 0:14:10.160
<v Speaker 2>firing his taser at the great grandmother, who was carrying

0:14:10.200 --> 0:14:14.920
<v Speaker 2>a serrated knife. The prosecutor argued Noland presented no safety

0:14:15.040 --> 0:14:21.560
<v Speaker 2>risk given her age and reliance on a walker. And

0:14:21.720 --> 0:14:25.720
<v Speaker 2>a sixty day cease fire between Israel and Hezbola is underway.

0:14:26.280 --> 0:14:28.840
<v Speaker 2>The terms of the deal will see Israel withdrawal from

0:14:28.840 --> 0:14:32.360
<v Speaker 2>southern Lebanon and hez Boler move its weaponry further north

0:14:32.400 --> 0:14:35.400
<v Speaker 2>of the border. Should the ceasefire hold, the end of

0:14:35.400 --> 0:14:38.080
<v Speaker 2>the sixty day period will be the start of negotiations

0:14:38.160 --> 0:14:42.200
<v Speaker 2>over the disputed border. I'm Ruby Jones. This is seven am.

0:14:42.240 --> 0:14:43.000
<v Speaker 2>Thanks for listening.