Speaker 1: From Schwartz Media.
Speaker 2: I'm Ruby Jones. This is seven am on the tiny
Speaker 2: island nation of Nhru. At this moment, close to one
Speaker 2: hundred asylum seekers are living hand to mouth. The overwhelming
Speaker 2: majority are still waiting for their refugee status to be determined,
Speaker 2: with no time frame for a decision. In the meantime,
Speaker 2: they're forbidden to work and a reliant on a tiny
Speaker 2: stipend not enough for three meals a day. The government
Speaker 2: has for the most part succeeded in keeping offshore processing
Speaker 2: off the front page. And there was a time a
Speaker 2: year ago when the center on Naru was completely empty.
Speaker 2: But as boats continue to arrive, Niru is still central
Speaker 2: to the Australian government's immigration response. Today contributor to the
Speaker 2: Saturday Paper, Denham Sadler on life on Naru and whether
Speaker 2: the policy of offshot attention will ever end. It's Thursday,
Speaker 2: November twenty eight, So didn't let's start with this point
Speaker 2: in time last year when Nauru Detention Center was finally empty,
Speaker 2: and it did, for a moment feel like this could
Speaker 2: be the end of offshore detention completely. There was even
Speaker 2: a celebration, wasn't there when the last person left.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there was.
Speaker 3: It was kind of this big moment that was celebrated,
Speaker 3: especially by advocates that have been campaigning for that for
Speaker 3: more than a decade. By that point, people were excited
Speaker 3: and thought maybe this could be a changing point. The
Speaker 3: last people had been kind of taken to Australia or
Speaker 3: resettled somewhere else, and there were hopes that that offshore
Speaker 3: regime might either be changed or there'd just be less
Speaker 3: of a focus on the offshore detention. But yeah, if
Speaker 3: you were paying full attention, it was pretty clear that
Speaker 3: there wasn't actually a big change.
Speaker 4: We need to make sure that we send a strong
Speaker 4: message that people who come in an unauthorized fashion won't
Speaker 4: be settled in Australia and that is what we have done.
Speaker 4: Operations Sovereign borders is in place.
Speaker 3: There were still hundreds of millions of dollars going towards
Speaker 3: keeping the regional processing centers up and running. There were
Speaker 3: still some people on p ANDNG as well, so the
Speaker 3: regime was still ongoing. And in the time when the
Speaker 3: center was actually empty, Australia entered into a new contract
Speaker 3: with a company to run the offshore processing facilities, and
Speaker 3: that was with a very controversial US company that mainly
Speaker 3: runs private prisons and immigration detention centers in the US.
Speaker 3: So there was never any real signal from the government
Speaker 3: that it was going to end, that they were going
Speaker 3: to shut down the center, that they were moving away
Speaker 3: from it.
Speaker 1: It was kind of just the fact that it was
Speaker 1: briefly empty.
Speaker 2: Okay, So the center was sitting there open, a bit empty,
Speaker 2: essentially really a symbol of Australia offshort attention policy and
Speaker 2: a reminder of what could happen if you did try
Speaker 2: it to get to Australia by boat. So when did
Speaker 2: that change? When did people start getting sent there again?
Speaker 1: It changed very quickly.
Speaker 3: It was a matter of months that it was actually empty,
Speaker 3: and then there were some stories of boats actually arriving
Speaker 3: in Australia.
Speaker 2: It's understood a boat from Indonesia with twelve people on
Speaker 2: board made it to shore in a very remote part
Speaker 2: of the Kimberly region in Western Australia known as the
Speaker 2: Ajo Peninsula.
Speaker 3: The ones that got the most coverage were kind of
Speaker 3: people showing up in quite regional Western Australia and just
Speaker 3: getting found by locals and then these people were eventually
Speaker 3: taken to Nauru. But there's been quite a lot over
Speaker 3: the end of last year and started this year of
Speaker 3: people arriving on Asam seeker boats and these people were
Speaker 3: taken to Nahru. So it was really a matter of
Speaker 3: months that the center was back up and running with
Speaker 3: people actually in it. Currently there are just under one
Speaker 3: hundred people. We know, there's just over eighty people that
Speaker 3: are now living in the community on Nauru, so they're
Speaker 3: free to move around the island, but they can't leave
Speaker 3: the island. And there's just over ten people still in
Speaker 3: close detention facilities, so they're in that one facility.
Speaker 1: So yeah, just under one hundred or there at the moment.
Speaker 2: And as you say, boats have started to arrive in
Speaker 2: Australia once again, do we know why that is?
Speaker 1: We don't really.
Speaker 3: I think you could talk to a lot of people
Speaker 3: and get a lot of different answers, and I think
Speaker 3: at its base, we're also not really sure that they
Speaker 3: have increased a lot. I think there's so much secrecy
Speaker 3: and a lack of transparency about boat arrivals and especially
Speaker 3: in terms of boat turnbacks as well, that we really
Speaker 3: don't know if there's just more making it further, if
Speaker 3: there's more being reported or if there has been an increase.
Speaker 3: But if you ask the opposition, they'd point to what
Speaker 3: they say is kind of a lack of funding within
Speaker 3: Home Affairs and the.
Speaker 1: Detection ability of the Border Force.
Speaker 3: And they'd also point to a lot of the debate
Speaker 3: last year around the High Court decisions around immigration detention,
Speaker 3: and they've been saying that kind of the people smuggling
Speaker 3: organizations are using that to kind of sell this package
Speaker 3: to get to Australia, saying there's been a change and
Speaker 3: you're more likely to be able to stay and not
Speaker 3: go to immigration detention. They would be arguing that the
Speaker 3: government would push back very strongly against that, and we
Speaker 3: actually really don't know if there has been an increase
Speaker 3: and why there has been. It says, just not enough
Speaker 3: information to know that.
Speaker 2: And can you tell me a bit more about the
Speaker 2: people there and what their life is like.
Speaker 3: Yeah, So I spoke to four people for this story
Speaker 3: on the weekend and they all had pretty similar experiences.
Speaker 3: They're living in this massive facility that's known as RPC three,
Speaker 3: so Regional Processing Center three, which is a big complex
Speaker 3: unit of small one beardroom, one bathroom facilities. Back when
Speaker 3: there were a lot more people on NU. It was
Speaker 3: used for families and families with young children, but at
Speaker 3: the moment it's pretty much all young men. And they
Speaker 3: describe the main thing is just the uncertainty. They all
Speaker 3: mentioned to me, they just don't know what's happening. A
Speaker 3: lot of them hadn't heard of NU when they were
Speaker 3: taken there. They didn't know where they were. And then
Speaker 3: the other main thing that they all meant was just
Speaker 3: the real struggle to get by day to day and
Speaker 3: to afford basic necessities. So the Australian government is providing
Speaker 3: them with two hundred and thirty dollars a fortnite.
Speaker 2: So what does that look like for them? Two hundred
Speaker 2: and thirty dollars a fortnight in the room.
Speaker 3: It looks like really scraping to get by. I think
Speaker 3: with the cost of living is extremely high on Nauru,
Speaker 3: and especially the cost of basic food and vegetables and
Speaker 3: water is extremely high. They say they spend about seventy
Speaker 3: dollars a fortnight just on drinking water, on bottled water,
Speaker 3: and try and afford to pay for phones and for
Speaker 3: data to talk to their family as well. And I
Speaker 3: think every person I spoke to so they couldn't afford
Speaker 3: three meals a day. They're eating less than they should
Speaker 3: be and they can't afford kind of good fruit and vegetables.
Speaker 1: There are health services.
Speaker 3: On Nauru, and one man told me that he goes
Speaker 3: to them and he's feeling weak and tired and they say, well,
Speaker 3: you need to eat more food, more vegetables, and he
Speaker 3: just can't afford it. Like one of the men said,
Speaker 3: a small cabbage can cost fifteen or twenty dollars. They
Speaker 3: all say it's just not enough money to just be
Speaker 3: able to feed themselves alone to live.
Speaker 2: So essentially they're living in poverty.
Speaker 3: Absolutely, yeah, they definitely would be. Yeah, they're not not
Speaker 3: at forty three meals a day. And on top of
Speaker 3: that most of them and they haven't had their refugee
Speaker 3: status determined, and then until that's determined, they're not allowed
Speaker 3: to work either. So even if they could find work
Speaker 3: on Nauru while they're living in the community, they're not
Speaker 3: allowed to. So it is entirely down to that two
Speaker 3: hundred and thirty dollars.
Speaker 2: After the break. How the government defends the two hundred
Speaker 2: and thirty dollars a fortnight it expects people to survive on,
Speaker 2: so get the majority of these people on Naru at
Speaker 2: this moment, they're waiting to hear about their refugee status.
Speaker 2: They don't yet know how that's going to pan out,
Speaker 2: what kind of information are they getting about that process,
Speaker 2: and what is communication with the Australian government.
Speaker 1: Like they say, they're getting very little information.
Speaker 3: That was the main concern, along with the money issues,
Speaker 3: was just a lack of transparency around any sort of
Speaker 3: timeframes of when they will be decided and what will
Speaker 3: happen to them whichever way the decision goes. One of
Speaker 3: the men I talked to, so he has had one
Speaker 3: of his claims rejected and he's kind of getting threatened
Speaker 3: or says he's getting threatened to return to his home
Speaker 3: country and that's going through appeals at the moment. But
Speaker 3: everyone's got obviously having their status determined and just say
Speaker 3: they haven't got any clear idea of what's going to
Speaker 3: happen to them and when it will happen. The Asamseika
Speaker 3: Resource Center has now talked to the majority of people
Speaker 3: that are being held on Nauru and they say that
Speaker 3: nearly a quarter of these people are suffering severe mental
Speaker 3: health conditions already and that one in ten are experiencing
Speaker 3: suicidal ideation.
Speaker 1: So this process is really.
Speaker 3: Having a toll on these people already and we're not
Speaker 3: sure how long they'll be there.
Speaker 2: And at this point, after more than a decade, almost
Speaker 2: fifteen years of offshore detention, we know so much about
Speaker 2: the cruelty of it and the damage that it does
Speaker 2: to people, both their physical health and mental health. So
Speaker 2: what is the Australian government saying about this practice now
Speaker 2: and why it's continuing to hold people on naru.
Speaker 3: It's still quite a similar argument that has been across
Speaker 3: governments and across the decade in terms of deterrence. There's
Speaker 3: still that argument of saying we're doing this to stop
Speaker 3: people getting on these dangerous boats to come to Australia.
Speaker 3: We're doing this to help people. That's the main argument.
Speaker 3: There's obviously a lot of the political arguments and a
Speaker 3: general fear to kind of do any changes because there
Speaker 3: will be massive political attacks.
Speaker 2: I mean last week there was another boat arrival on
Speaker 2: an island just off the Northern Territory and the Opposition
Speaker 2: leader Peter Dutton, he went on Sky News and he
Speaker 2: said that it's clear that people smugglers believe they are
Speaker 2: back in business.
Speaker 5: Well, it's clear that the people smugglers believe that they're
Speaker 5: back in business. This is now the twenty third boat
Speaker 5: arrival and it's another one that's been undetected. Our borders
Speaker 5: are not secure under the Urbanezy government, which is a.
Speaker 2: Very old coalition line on this. But as we approach
Speaker 2: another election, what do you think all of this means
Speaker 2: for Australia's immigration policies. How do you think it's going
Speaker 2: to play out over the next few months.
Speaker 3: I think, particularly in light of the government's announced legislation
Speaker 3: recently in terms of the Immigration Attention decision and around
Speaker 3: actually being able to pay another country to offer visas
Speaker 3: to these people and then put them into attention if
Speaker 3: they say no, I think that just signals a hard
Speaker 3: line approach to this issue and a government that kind
Speaker 3: of just wants it to go away and not being
Speaker 3: the center of attention. I think even among advocates or
Speaker 3: people that feel strongly about this, there wasn't much awareness
Speaker 3: around how many people are on NORU at the moment.
Speaker 1: I think people recognize.
Speaker 3: The celebration last year and there was some hope that
Speaker 3: things had changed and there weren't people in offshort attention,
Speaker 3: but there are a lot of people and I don't
Speaker 3: think there's a lot of awareness around that yet, and
Speaker 3: I think that's how the government would like it. I
Speaker 3: think they'd very much prefer this to be out of sight,
Speaker 3: out of mind. But this issue did come up recently
Speaker 3: at a Senate Estmates hearing that Home Affairs were peering out.
Speaker 6: The Asylum Seeker Resource Center reported last month that the
Speaker 6: majority of people held in close detention on Nauru have
Speaker 6: recently been moved into the community, with many now struggling
Speaker 6: to afford three meals a day.
Speaker 3: They are aware of the issues around money and not
Speaker 3: being out to afford meals, and in response, the representative
Speaker 3: from Home Affairs said that that two hundred and thirty
Speaker 3: dollars have been cited based on cost of living on
Speaker 3: Nauru and that they thought it was adequate, but it's
Speaker 3: constantly being reviewed.
Speaker 7: There are a range of services provided to transferrees currently
Speaker 7: living in the community on Naharu. They are provided by
Speaker 7: the Government of Naharu in accordance with the Regional Processing arrangements.
Speaker 7: They include a number of welfare services, health services and
Speaker 7: other sort of general activities.
Speaker 3: To call the arrangements, but basically all we've heard from
Speaker 3: Home Affairs is that there's a processing and quarantine phase
Speaker 3: which is enclosed attention and then they're released to the community.
Speaker 3: But I couldn't get any information on how long that
Speaker 3: is or if it's a set time or anything like that.
Speaker 2: And Australia's treatment of refugees, this is something that you
Speaker 2: followed for a long time and written many stories about,
Speaker 2: and I just wonder, is it your sense that this
Speaker 2: is now Australia's forever policy because it's been this way
Speaker 2: my entire adult life, So what would it take for
Speaker 2: things to look any different.
Speaker 3: It is very hard to see it changing. It's been
Speaker 3: that way my entire adult life too, and I think
Speaker 3: it's advocates of finding it very hard to change kind
Speaker 3: of the public perception, and that's how you go about change,
Speaker 3: I suppose. I think there was hope last year, like
Speaker 3: we discussed with Nuru being empty, but the actual machinations
Speaker 3: behind it meant it was never going to be empty
Speaker 3: for very long and there wasn't any real change or
Speaker 3: positive movement from the government. I think there's always a
Speaker 3: bit of hope, but I think when you see the
Speaker 3: Labor government announced policies like the last couple of weeks
Speaker 3: we've seen and in general, continuing this offshore regime, it
Speaker 3: is very hard to see there'll be any positive change.
Speaker 1: For these people.
Speaker 3: Yes, there's less people on Nauru, but there still are
Speaker 3: people there and they're living in poverty, and I think
Speaker 3: for a lot of people it's easy either to not
Speaker 3: know about it or not think about it.
Speaker 2: Dennim, thank you so much for your time, Thanks for
Speaker 2: having me. Also in the news today, Christian White, the
Speaker 2: new South Wales police officer who tays it ninety five
Speaker 2: year old Claire Noland in a nursing home in Kuma
Speaker 2: last year, has been convicted of manslaughter, which carries a
Speaker 2: Maxan prison sentence of twenty five years. White's barrister had
Speaker 2: attempted to argue that White had used reasonable force when
Speaker 2: firing his taser at the great grandmother, who was carrying
Speaker 2: a serrated knife. The prosecutor argued Noland presented no safety
Speaker 2: risk given her age and reliance on a walker. And
Speaker 2: a sixty day cease fire between Israel and Hezbola is underway.
Speaker 2: The terms of the deal will see Israel withdrawal from
Speaker 2: southern Lebanon and hez Boler move its weaponry further north
Speaker 2: of the border. Should the ceasefire hold, the end of
Speaker 2: the sixty day period will be the start of negotiations
Speaker 2: over the disputed border. I'm Ruby Jones. This is seven am.
Speaker 2: Thanks for listening.