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Speaker 1: David Kenny. Welcome to the mentor mate.

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Speaker 2: Thank you very much for having me Mark.

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Speaker 1: I've got your new book here in front of me.

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Speaker 1: It's called Epic Execution, Speed Up, Scale Up, and Level Up.

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Speaker 1: I guess is sort of directed at startups and people

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Speaker 1: going in business generally.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, yes, from day one to hopefully one hundred million

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Speaker 2: dollars in revenue.

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Speaker 1: That'd be nice. Well, we'll talk about it in the moment.

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Speaker 1: Just let's just give you a bit of background on you.

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Speaker 1: So you're the founder and advisor. I guess you're the

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Speaker 1: founder most importantly of a business called Epic Execution, which

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Speaker 1: I presume is something that grew out of the the

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Speaker 1: publishing of this book.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely. The background is probably been in corporate for

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Speaker 2: thirty id years and been working with lots of companies

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Speaker 2: that have had great success, and decided I'd had enough

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Speaker 2: and decided to take some of the thoughts and processes

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Speaker 2: from what I've learned over those years and put it

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Speaker 2: into different companies and the way i wanted to do it.

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Speaker 1: Well, when you people often say to me that they

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Speaker 1: worked in corporate environments, you know, one of the big

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Speaker 1: banks or whatever, you know, one of the big advisory firms,

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Speaker 1: counting firms, law firms, one of the investment banks, et cetera.

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Speaker 1: And they say that they're looking after everybody else and

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Speaker 1: then eventually they feel like they want to go do

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Speaker 1: something on their own from what based on what they've learned?

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Speaker 1: But what is it that makes people want to make

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Speaker 1: a change midlife? Like you know, in your case, what

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Speaker 1: was it? What was it you weren't seeing or you

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Speaker 1: weren't getting any satisfaction from.

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Speaker 2: Well, I think it came down to I'd done it

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Speaker 2: for a long time. I was really in chartered accounting

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Speaker 2: for thirty five years, so you saw lots of clients,

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Speaker 2: lots of businesses from day one to NASDAK, and through

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Speaker 2: that process, I just decided that I wanted to do

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Speaker 2: what I'm doing, but just at a different hopefully better

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Speaker 2: And now I just work with a few family officers

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Speaker 2: and still love helping the startups because you know that's

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Speaker 2: where the action is in many ways, and helping them

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Speaker 2: make better decisions through questions and rather than telling them

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Speaker 2: what to do, because I always say that really just

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Speaker 2: poisons their brain or pollutes their brain. Rather than telling

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Speaker 2: them what to do, you can help them work out

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Speaker 2: what the right thing is and get clarity around what

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Speaker 2: they're trying to discover about a customer or discover about

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Speaker 2: distribution strategy. So I think I read something like ten

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Speaker 2: thousand meetings and I just got sick of writing and

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Speaker 2: drawing the same things on the board around customers. And

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Speaker 2: so one of my mates said you should write a book.

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Speaker 2: So here it is.

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Speaker 1: Well, we'll talk about the book in a sec. But

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Speaker 1: it's interesting that when you work in a chart accounting

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Speaker 1: environment as opposed which is different to public accounting, I

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Speaker 1: guess to some extent, the client's probably a little can

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Speaker 1: be a bit more sophisticated, a bit more demanding.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we had some really good clients.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so you and you said thirty years, so you

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Speaker 1: would have seen some. You would have got some midstream,

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Speaker 1: some had already been in business when you first got

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Speaker 1: to get involved in them. You would have seen some startup,

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Speaker 1: some startup, and over the thirty period you'd have seen

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Speaker 1: lots drop out. You would have seen some just you know,

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Speaker 1: meandering along doing okay, paying their accounting fees, paying the

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Speaker 1: tax office, maybe making a living out of it. And

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Speaker 1: then you would have seen some that sort of kicked

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Speaker 1: the ball out of the park killed it. What is

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Speaker 1: for the ones in the ones who failed and all

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Speaker 1: the ones and maybe also the ones who just meandered

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Speaker 1: along and made a living for over twenty thirty years.

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Speaker 1: What were they doing? Maybe not wrong, but what were

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Speaker 1: they doing? Is there any common denominators for any of

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Speaker 1: those organizations.

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Speaker 2: I think there is actually because a lot of them

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Speaker 2: worth getting stuck on in their own ways, and they

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Speaker 2: weren't evolving, and they weren't looking at the customer and saying,

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Speaker 2: what's the customer need now? And they weren't customer centric enough,

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Speaker 2: or they weren't working on their systems. They were taking

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Speaker 2: things for granted, they weren't focused enough on the processes

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Speaker 2: and the team and developing the teams and putting themselves

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Speaker 2: out of their comfort zone as well. That's a big

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Speaker 2: part of it, is like the customer doesn't stand still

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Speaker 2: so near the can you? So you've got to keep

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Speaker 2: getting better at getting better?

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Speaker 1: So it does it mean though that there's some people

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Speaker 1: just really aren't suited for going into these things in

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Speaker 1: the first place. Is it a mindset or a personality thing,

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Speaker 1: or is it just not having the right skills?

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Speaker 2: I think it's all three it's some people don't ever

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Speaker 2: develop the skills. Some people have the wrong mindset and

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Speaker 2: they don't have the right character, so they may not

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Speaker 2: want to keep getting out of the comfort zone to

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Speaker 2: discover what it is they're not doing right because they

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Speaker 2: want to be right as opposed to it better. This

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Speaker 2: is a difference. There's a big difference, isn't there. And

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Speaker 2: I think the other problem that most people have is

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Speaker 2: they never really get better at what I call capital allocation.

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Speaker 2: They don't get better at making increasingly narrow or misses

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Speaker 2: when it comes to what they're spending their time and

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Speaker 2: attention on. I think the key thing with capital allocation

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Speaker 2: is you've got essentially four pieces of arsenal and the

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Speaker 2: race of building a business, and that is your time,

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Speaker 2: what you focus on, your attention, what money you put

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Speaker 2: into that, and then third, fourthly the people and the

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Speaker 2: attention and the money that you spend on them to focus.

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Speaker 2: So if you don't get those things right and sequentially right,

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Speaker 2: and you take things for granted or you don't focus

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Speaker 2: on the right things, you usually don't end up building

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Speaker 2: a product that people want to buy or stick with,

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Speaker 2: so they won't try it, they won't pay for it.

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Speaker 2: They won't stay with it. They come along for the

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Speaker 2: journey as you keep growing it and working out how

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Speaker 2: will add more value and what it will do next,

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Speaker 2: and how the process will keep creating a system and

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Speaker 2: platform that keeps getting better each time there's a new

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Speaker 2: customer comes on. So like, they don't get a network

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Speaker 2: effect by doing the same thing all the time, and

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Speaker 2: nobody wants to keep making the product better.

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Speaker 1: So maybe you just go through those four things again.

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Speaker 1: So the first I think the first one I said

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Speaker 1: is four different types of capital or allocation of capital

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Speaker 1: is your time. But being that's capital, that's your time.

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Speaker 1: Your time is an asset, it's capital, so you've got

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Speaker 1: to maybe you just dig into that a little bit.

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Speaker 1: So the first one being time your time, when you

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Speaker 1: say they don't allocate that properly or efficiently or strategically

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Speaker 1: perhaps tactically, what do you mean by that? So I

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Speaker 1: spent you saying I might maybe, oh file because if

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Speaker 1: I'm spending my time on irrelevant things, am I wasting

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Speaker 1: my time?

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Speaker 2: What do you mean? Well? I like to use thinking

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Speaker 2: models because they help people without telling them what to do,

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Speaker 2: and I use this one called radar. So and first

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Speaker 2: the first, R and radar is reality. So a lot

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Speaker 2: of people think this is a problem, but they don't

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Speaker 2: have a thorough understanding of the process or the problem

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Speaker 2: or the customer's world. So spending enough time to understand

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Speaker 2: what they're doing and what the real issue is not

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Speaker 2: just a superficial look at it. That helps you build

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Speaker 2: something or be relevant as well. And so that's that's

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Speaker 2: the starting point. And then you still as a founder

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Speaker 2: or a CEO, whoever you are, you're trying to solve

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Speaker 2: a problem. You want to understand what your assumptions are,

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Speaker 2: what's reality versus an assumption, and then from that information

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Speaker 2: you want to then develop insights. So what are what

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Speaker 2: are these things telling me that the customer needs? And

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Speaker 2: what are the insights telling me about where I should

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Speaker 2: focus next? And then then I need to design and

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Speaker 2: an experiment, so design and doing if you like. And

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Speaker 2: then execution is the doing part epig execution, and then

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Speaker 2: R is for repeat because you're just constantly learning around

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Speaker 2: what's changing, what the customer's realities are, what the assumptions

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Speaker 2: are becoming irrelevant. Therefore you go back to reality. Then

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Speaker 2: you make insights, which helps you develop your product, which

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Speaker 2: helps you create more value and then caption more value

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Speaker 2: for the customers when you know there's plenty of competitors

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Speaker 2: and people hang around if you quep creating.

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Speaker 1: More value for them, Well that's the first one, allocation

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Speaker 1: of your time.

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Speaker 2: What do they have? Three into the other three are

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Speaker 2: looking at what you focus on as well. So you've

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Speaker 2: got time you can Usually when you start a business

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Speaker 2: you might have at most adding to twenty four months.

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Speaker 2: And if you don't allocate and find proof that you're

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Speaker 2: actually building something that matter, you run out right. See

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Speaker 2: your KAPA runs out, et cetera. So the things you

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Speaker 2: spend time on. So it's a slight nuanced difference. I

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Speaker 2: find that people go, well, that's how much time have

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Speaker 2: I got? But you've got time? But then what are

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Speaker 2: you going to focus on? So what do you do first?

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Speaker 2: And I see a lot of people going back to mistakes.

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Speaker 2: They think, well, let me go and get this award,

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Speaker 2: or let me get some publicity, or let me write

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Speaker 2: lots and lots of articles on LinkedIn maybe, or do

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Speaker 2: something which isn't actually sequentially right to do at the

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Speaker 2: right time. Now to solve this problem and work out

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Speaker 2: what the reality is. So that framework just keeps you honest,

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Speaker 2: It keeps you searching for the truth, not doing what

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Speaker 2: feels good, not doing what is not right or relevant

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Speaker 2: at the time, and then going back to the third thing,

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Speaker 2: which is then the time that you have other people's time.

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Speaker 2: So then you've got you decided that you've worked enough out.

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Speaker 2: Now I need to expand my team. So now I've

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Speaker 2: got a person on, but I need to get the

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Speaker 2: right person and then what they then spend their time doing.

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Speaker 2: So these are just I call them the four bets.

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Speaker 2: You've got the four chips in the race to build

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Speaker 2: a business. So those four chips, I think are useful

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Speaker 2: thinking tools for people to go what am I going

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Speaker 2: to do? I'll get up today, what am I working on?

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Speaker 2: What am I getting my team to do? What am

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Speaker 2: I focusing on myself? What am I spending money on?

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Speaker 2: And how do I assess what the right bets are?

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Speaker 2: And that's why here's the reference of how do I

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Speaker 2: make increasingly narrow misses because you're still guessing, but you

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Speaker 2: want to get better at making fewer misses.

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Speaker 1: Being in business will be an entrepreneur.

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Speaker 2: Is like.

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Speaker 1: Fraught with potholes everywhere. It's just drama. Twenty four hours

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Speaker 1: a day, especially these days, because the world's much more

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Speaker 1: competitive than ever before, much much more because everyone's thinking

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Speaker 1: about it. You think you're the one got an idea,

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Speaker 1: but a thousand others have already thought about it, and

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Speaker 1: some have already got it up and running. Do you

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Speaker 1: think entrepreneurship today is as viable as it was, say

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Speaker 1: when you first started working on your clients thirty years ago.

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Speaker 2: I think there's still just as many problems.

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Speaker 1: But the viability of.

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Speaker 2: The viability, I think it can be even more viable.

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Speaker 2: It depends on what you're focusing on. Are you focusing

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Speaker 2: on solving a problem that needs to be fixed because

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Speaker 2: a lot of people think I'll do this, but it's

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Speaker 2: not relevant enough, it's not the right problem, you aren't

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Speaker 2: the right person, or you don't have the right thought processes.

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Speaker 2: So is it still viable? Like I'm saying, so many companies,

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Speaker 2: the valuations are going almost astronomical, particularly if they've got

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Speaker 2: native AI. So if they've got the model, they've got

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Speaker 2: the data, and they've got the processes and workflows, they're

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Speaker 2: getting crazy valuations. Like I see some of the AI

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Speaker 2: companies are getting seventy times their revenue as a valuation,

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Speaker 2: not ibata revenue.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a big use. That doesn't last.

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Speaker 2: It doesn't last. Well, we've you know, I'm sure you've

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Speaker 2: seen plenty of companies that have haven't stood the test

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Speaker 2: of time. And that's the that's the whole joy of

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Speaker 2: starting a company is seeing if you can make it work,

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Speaker 2: and because it's a pretty noble thing to do, solve

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Speaker 2: a problem and stay alive and figure it out and

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Speaker 2: sell the customers and employ people and create value for everybody.

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Speaker 1: But is your epic execution your book?

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Speaker 2: Is it?

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Speaker 1: Is it just about though you sort of mentioned aire

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Speaker 1: companies using AI and where AI companies your typical entrepreneurs path.

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Speaker 1: There's your book also addressing, for example, the cafe next door,

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Speaker 1: does it get to that level?

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Speaker 2: I don't specifically say the cafe, but what I do

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Speaker 2: believe is that the principles of any business are very similar.

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Speaker 2: They revolve around solving a problem. They revolve around this tribution,

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Speaker 2: They revolve around you economics, They revolve around constant system

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Speaker 2: improvement and delivering learning, reshaping and creating a profit. So

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Speaker 2: fixing a problem, seeing the right problem, fixing it, and

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Speaker 2: then you can back.

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Speaker 1: So, for example, the guy outside here. He's got a

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Speaker 1: coffee shop. Yeah, he serves food and stuff like that.

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Speaker 1: The problem I presume that you're talking about is that

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Speaker 1: people new cafe in the morning. We sure do, yeah

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Speaker 1: and so, And he's open at five am. He's the

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Speaker 1: first to open round and has been like that for

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Speaker 1: a million years. Is would that be the problem? Like,

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Speaker 1: who's like the consumer has the problem the way he

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Speaker 1: and the problem that the consumer has is I'm up early.

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Speaker 1: There's no Randy to get a coffee that's sort of

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Speaker 1: safe because we're in the middle of the cross at

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Speaker 1: the time of day, especially in the winter, it's pitch black.

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Speaker 1: Is that would you say that's the problem that he's

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Speaker 1: trying to solve? Where do I get my very Where

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Speaker 1: can I get the early coffee, decent coffee, first thing

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Speaker 1: in the morning.

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Speaker 2: It definitely gives him a unique selling proposition, is that

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Speaker 2: he's open early, and he's got a good quality coffee,

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Speaker 2: and he's therefore got football and traffic around the area.

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Speaker 2: It's a busy area, lots of people up early wanting

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Speaker 2: to get out and more the cyclist cyclists go past,

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Speaker 2: and you've got starving crowd mentality saying let's go and

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Speaker 2: get a good coffee and they know where to get it.

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Speaker 1: But how do you, Howard, I don't know if he

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Speaker 1: actually sat down and thought that through, but late as

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Speaker 1: a as an advisor to people, how do you actually

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Speaker 1: determine what the problem is that I need to solve

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Speaker 1: to go into business? And because like, because there's like

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Speaker 1: a million problems out there, so and we're all able

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Speaker 1: to go into in the business to solve a million problems,

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Speaker 1: you know, Like I guess it started with him because

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Speaker 1: he's a cook, he's a chef. He probably thought, well,

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Speaker 1: my first position is I like food. I know food,

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Speaker 1: so I apply my I can apply my skills to

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Speaker 1: that area. And now I'm going to choose a problem

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Speaker 1: in the food area, that being people need to get

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Speaker 1: a couple of coffee first thing in the morning. It's

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Speaker 1: maybe some food with it as well. And I'm pretty

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Speaker 1: confident I can solve. I'm pretty confident I have the

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Speaker 1: skills to do that. And we'll talk about staffing in

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Speaker 1: the moment, because that's pretty important to in terms of

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Speaker 1: your execution. I guess is that because a lot of

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Speaker 1: people were saying, oh I got a job, there might

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Speaker 1: be like you working in a firm, but they want

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Speaker 1: to have a do something at night, and they want

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Speaker 1: to do like have a little side hustle. But I

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Speaker 1: don't know where to start. They think, well, how do

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Speaker 1: they make a start? Which zone of entrepreneurship do they

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Speaker 1: settle on? I mean, is a place where you have

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Speaker 1: some skill or you have some interest or how do

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Speaker 1: you do it? Well, I think that you've done that.

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Speaker 1: You've gone in a business. You've got a business in

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Speaker 1: an area that you have skills in and passion and

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Speaker 1: we am passion to so and you are. Yeah. But

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Speaker 1: like if you go back when you first started working,

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Speaker 1: before you did your chart accounting stuff, you probably wouldn't

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Speaker 1: have gone and done this because you would have gone, well,

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Speaker 1: I don't really know enough about it. So let's say

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Speaker 1: some young person is sort of sitting there and they're

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Speaker 1: working in charter accounting for them, they're trying to work out,

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Speaker 1: or they're working anywhere, doesn't matter, work in a bank,

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Speaker 1: doesn't matter. But I really won't have my own thing

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Speaker 1: sooner or later. I don't want to wait till David

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Speaker 1: wait until he was forty eight fifty would have rade

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Speaker 1: you are. I want to start it now. Plus someone

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Speaker 1: who'd worked during the day, where do they sort of

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Speaker 1: look for the problem that they can solve.

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Speaker 2: Finding the problem there everywhere, I guess the question is

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Speaker 2: are you the right person to solve it? Yeah? How

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Speaker 2: do you validate it enough that? Well? I think you

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Speaker 2: need to think through and again the book has the

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Speaker 2: structure of saying it starts with you. So you're working

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Speaker 2: out what are the truth of your circumstances, well, the

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Speaker 2: truth of your your knowledge? And what do you what

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Speaker 2: are you missing? Are you good in with ambiguity? Can

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Speaker 2: you are you happy to stick out things? Will you

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Speaker 2: work it out and go through tough problems? Because we

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Speaker 2: know that lots of companies do fail. So as a result,

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Speaker 2: you know, you've got to have some of the right attributes.

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Speaker 2: So working out do you have the right attributes? Do

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Speaker 2: you need a co founder? What do you stand for?

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Speaker 2: How are you? What are your what's your makeup of?

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Speaker 2: What do you know? What are you good at? What

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Speaker 2: are you still figuring out? And then working out is

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Speaker 2: this a fit to a customer? Is this does this

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Speaker 2: customer have a problem that I can meet and by

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Speaker 2: delivering it consistently, will I build goodwill? Will I build

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Speaker 2: a following? Will I build, can I deliver it at

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Speaker 2: the right level, with the right margins, with the right repetition,

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Speaker 2: so that eventually maybe I can sell that business. And

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Speaker 2: I think that those processes that anyone who's looking for

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Speaker 2: is starting with themselves and then determining how do I

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Speaker 2: get to know about what the problem is so that

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Speaker 2: I can know that I can build something which will

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Speaker 2: be customer centric. And that starts by asking questions of

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Speaker 2: the customer and not just saying let me go and

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Speaker 2: build something so if they like it. And that's why

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Speaker 2: a lot of companies do go broke, is they build

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Speaker 2: something before they're validated the need, or they haven't worked

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Speaker 2: out how to capture the value and therefore or create value.

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Speaker 2: Therefore they can't capture any because they haven't really created anything.

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Speaker 2: So once they've established there's a need, they can then

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Speaker 2: provide a service and test. They can check reality, they

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Speaker 2: can check assumptions, they can check the insights. You know

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Speaker 2: what the customers do and think and are they enjoying

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Speaker 2: the coffee, and they look at the customer and the

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Speaker 2: eye rather than just doing a survey, they can say, oh,

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Speaker 2: great coffee after a good bike ride and you're onto

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Speaker 2: a formula, so you assess people by being in the

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Speaker 2: wild with them rather than just doing a hypothetical let

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Speaker 2: me put out to see if anyone likes it. That's

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Speaker 2: a real expensive way of learning. So you say they

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Speaker 2: should do their research. Absolutely, I think research is a

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Speaker 2: gift and doing research before you spend a lot of

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Speaker 2: money is just a very smart way of doing things.

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Speaker 2: And you can learn more by sitting in front of

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Speaker 2: a customer not telling them what to do. I'm not saying, Okay,

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Speaker 2: there's a cup of coffee, what do I do with

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Speaker 2: That's pretty easy? Drink it? But do they like it?

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Speaker 2: What do they they just like the company? Do they

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Speaker 2: get the formula right? What goes together? The brand of coffee,

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Speaker 2: the brand of coffee, all of those things go into

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Speaker 2: the success of a company in the long term, because

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Speaker 2: as long as tribute.

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Speaker 1: There's a liver coffee shops, and the one outside here

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Speaker 1: is the busiest by far. It's like fifty meters from

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Speaker 1: the twenty meters from the next one. And I often

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Speaker 1: wonder why these guys are here always packed, and the

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Speaker 1: other ones some aren't packed at all. In fact, there's

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Speaker 1: sometimes I feel sorry for the others because they've got

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Speaker 1: no one in there, and like they're alsoving coffee is

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Speaker 1: probably know the coffee quality is a decent relative to

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Speaker 1: everybody else. There must be something else in the formula

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Speaker 1: that takes me to the people part people capital. What's

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Speaker 1: interesting about the one next door here it does quite well,

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Speaker 1: is there's three guys are in partnership together. They're all

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Speaker 1: x chefs from a really well known restaurant, so they

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Speaker 1: all know to cook. They've all worked together in really

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Speaker 1: small type places, so you know, they don't get too

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Speaker 1: precious about the environment they're working in. It's their business anyway.

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Speaker 1: And they have this sort of rhythm of there's always

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Speaker 1: two on and one has a day off, and that

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Speaker 1: they're sort of they have this amazing understanding of each other.

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Speaker 1: Like it's nearly like someone orders over here. They don't

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Speaker 1: even have to tell each other who's going to do.

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Speaker 1: It just happens. Then they're all about the same age,

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Speaker 1: they're all got families, the kids have all grown up together.

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Speaker 1: They're all live in a similar sort of area. They

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Speaker 1: have been forever. How important is it in what your

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Speaker 1: book's about. It's all great to have the idea and

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Speaker 1: you don't your research. You know, people want to get

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Speaker 1: their coffeet five o'clock in the morning, blah blah blah.

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Speaker 1: But then you've got to execute. How important is it

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Speaker 1: in terms of excuse execution, having the right team.

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Speaker 2: It's vitable and I think every good business there's nice

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Speaker 2: sing as a technology business because people built the technology.

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Speaker 2: I think the customer centricity around you can have as

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Speaker 2: much AI as you like, and even in coffee shops,

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Speaker 2: I'm sure people are already starting to use AI. But

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Speaker 2: having customer service and people knowing your name and people

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Speaker 2: knowing what your order, or them know your name, no, yeah,

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Speaker 2: them knowing your name, come in and you go, same again,

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Speaker 2: Mark you know you're ready for the latest larder or

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Speaker 2: whatever you have, and asking how you are. It's not

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Speaker 2: just the coffee. The product is how they make you feel.

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Speaker 2: What did they see, how do they assess your needs?

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Speaker 2: How do they see you? How do they consistently provide

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Speaker 2: good service and quality coffee and the vibe and being

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Speaker 2: around other people that are enjoying themselves. I think that

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Speaker 2: whole ambience is part of the product that they have

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Speaker 2: and the personnel. The personnel helped create that. There's a

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Speaker 2: thing called the last five yards. I mentioned in the

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Speaker 2: book that you can spend all the money on good coffee.

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Speaker 2: You have a great location, you can have a great brand.

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Speaker 2: But if someone walks in and they say you're right,

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Speaker 2: you go, yeah, of course I'm right, But you haven't

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Speaker 2: asked me if I want a coffee, or I sat

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Speaker 2: down or said hello, or nice day to day. There's

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Speaker 2: a whole vibe making people feel welcome. And I think

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Speaker 2: that people tend to stick with the brand because they

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Speaker 2: know that this is my home, this is where I

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Speaker 2: go for coffee, this is my routine, this is how

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Speaker 2: I like to start my day. And by feeling at

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Speaker 2: home and comfortable and being around people that know you

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Speaker 2: and like you, you got them for life usually.

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Speaker 1: And therefore that's as interesting. You should say that because

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Speaker 1: they are only closed one day the year once and

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Speaker 1: because maybe if they close, if they if they decided. Look,

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Speaker 1: this happened to me the other day. Actually I wasn't

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Speaker 1: not in Sydney. I was somewhere else and there's a

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Speaker 1: very good coffee shop. They're really cool joint, you know.

434
00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:49,880
Speaker 1: And I was there and and I noticed I said

435
00:23:49,880 --> 00:23:51,960
Speaker 1: to the guy that I'll come back tomorrow. Tomorrow was

436
00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:56,080
Speaker 1: a Saturday, so we don't know what weekends, what coffee

437
00:23:56,080 --> 00:23:59,280
Speaker 1: shop doesn't open on weekend. A tourist area too, by

438
00:23:59,280 --> 00:24:03,639
Speaker 1: the way. And so I went somewhere else because I

439
00:24:03,640 --> 00:24:06,359
Speaker 1: had to. There's no one else to go, but somewhere else.

440
00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:10,359
Speaker 1: The guy there was really nice, interesting, cool guy. And

441
00:24:10,400 --> 00:24:12,320
Speaker 1: now I go to that other place all the time,

442
00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:17,720
Speaker 1: whereas I was prepared to give my custom to the

443
00:24:17,720 --> 00:24:22,440
Speaker 1: first place. This building of a rhythm in terms of

444
00:24:23,480 --> 00:24:27,240
Speaker 1: how and therefore where this point becomes important to my

445
00:24:27,320 --> 00:24:30,119
Speaker 1: point of view is that I've since found out the

446
00:24:30,200 --> 00:24:32,919
Speaker 1: reason was is because the individual's are in the first place,

447
00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:35,040
Speaker 1: they like to have a couple of days off fair

448
00:24:35,160 --> 00:24:36,640
Speaker 1: enough because they've got to spend time with the kids

449
00:24:36,640 --> 00:24:38,480
Speaker 1: and their family and all that sort of stuff. But

450
00:24:38,600 --> 00:24:42,200
Speaker 1: when you come to choosing your partners, your staff, etc.

451
00:24:43,040 --> 00:24:46,520
Speaker 1: You need to have somebody's prepared to work on maybe

452
00:24:46,560 --> 00:24:48,840
Speaker 1: every second weekend. You do one weekend, they do one weekend.

453
00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:51,359
Speaker 1: Like That's why these guys here are so successful, because

454
00:24:51,359 --> 00:24:54,560
Speaker 1: they just keep rolling between each other. You know, maybe

455
00:24:54,560 --> 00:24:57,120
Speaker 1: this weekend too, working on Saturday, Sunday, the next week

456
00:24:57,200 --> 00:24:59,119
Speaker 1: the other the other. They swap it around. They just

457
00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:02,359
Speaker 1: keep moving around. So in terms of choosing your personnel

458
00:25:02,680 --> 00:25:07,960
Speaker 1: and your business partners, You've also got to understand in

459
00:25:08,040 --> 00:25:09,120
Speaker 1: terms of execution, you've got.

460
00:25:09,000 --> 00:25:09,879
Speaker 2: To have a good rhythm.

461
00:25:10,600 --> 00:25:15,000
Speaker 1: Absolutely, a rhythm issuits that consumer, not you completely.

462
00:25:15,040 --> 00:25:17,879
Speaker 2: It's got to be customer centric. So I always say, well,

463
00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:21,080
Speaker 2: what's your model. Or you have a great coffee, You

464
00:25:21,119 --> 00:25:25,600
Speaker 2: have a location, you have a price, you have a

465
00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:29,159
Speaker 2: different process for when someone comes in. But then you

466
00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:31,840
Speaker 2: have the mechanics around how you deliver and how you

467
00:25:31,880 --> 00:25:34,840
Speaker 2: manufacture and how you buy, etc. But there's one thing

468
00:25:34,920 --> 00:25:38,320
Speaker 2: that's always missing in every business that doesn't succeed, and

469
00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:40,720
Speaker 2: that's the magic. So you have your mechanics, your model,

470
00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:42,720
Speaker 2: but you have to have the magic. And the magic

471
00:25:42,800 --> 00:25:44,840
Speaker 2: is how you make the customer feel or with some

472
00:25:44,920 --> 00:25:51,399
Speaker 2: unexpected value that they get that is beyond the commodity.

473
00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:54,439
Speaker 2: Like you can get a coffee that probably unless you're

474
00:25:54,440 --> 00:25:58,760
Speaker 2: a coffee offficient aficionado, you might not know the difference

475
00:25:58,760 --> 00:26:01,720
Speaker 2: between the coke and the PEPSI test, you know, but

476
00:26:02,640 --> 00:26:04,000
Speaker 2: you know how the person made you feel.

477
00:26:04,320 --> 00:26:05,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, you always remember the feeling.

478
00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:08,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, you remember the feeling because you go they said,

479
00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:10,800
Speaker 2: I've got my usual table, it's ready for you. It's

480
00:26:11,960 --> 00:26:14,560
Speaker 2: seen to drink, now you like to drink. And that's

481
00:26:14,640 --> 00:26:16,760
Speaker 2: part of the service, part of the product. It's part

482
00:26:16,760 --> 00:26:18,959
Speaker 2: of the loyalty in the brand. And so when people

483
00:26:19,720 --> 00:26:22,919
Speaker 2: have a brand, they say, well, we're the world's best coffee.

484
00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:26,479
Speaker 2: You know, you can't burn the beans, right, So the

485
00:26:26,520 --> 00:26:30,960
Speaker 2: brand helps you actually know what is part of your

486
00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:32,439
Speaker 2: standard operating processes.

487
00:26:32,800 --> 00:26:36,040
Speaker 1: So you're right, because when I think of these guys here,

488
00:26:36,280 --> 00:26:38,200
Speaker 1: I do think of they're open through in sixty four

489
00:26:38,240 --> 00:26:41,480
Speaker 1: days a year. I know if I'm coming past this way,

490
00:26:41,600 --> 00:26:43,880
Speaker 1: it doesn't matter what day of the year is except

491
00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:46,760
Speaker 1: Christmas DA. If I want to coffee, which is every day,

492
00:26:47,320 --> 00:26:50,320
Speaker 1: I can get one, yeah, absolutely, they got you. Yeah,

493
00:26:50,359 --> 00:26:53,960
Speaker 1: and I'll happing to been my tenant too. But it

494
00:26:54,000 --> 00:26:54,480
Speaker 1: doesn't matter.

495
00:26:54,480 --> 00:26:56,200
Speaker 2: But they don't know. They don't know that they might

496
00:26:56,280 --> 00:26:56,560
Speaker 2: do that.

497
00:26:56,600 --> 00:27:00,919
Speaker 1: But it's interesting because that that rhythm knowing and to

498
00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:03,679
Speaker 1: build to have a good rhythm, you know, like a

499
00:27:03,720 --> 00:27:06,760
Speaker 1: business rhythm, you've got to have people who can actually

500
00:27:06,840 --> 00:27:09,639
Speaker 1: execute on the rhythm. Because you can have the rhythm

501
00:27:09,640 --> 00:27:11,280
Speaker 1: in your brain. You can write down a piece of paper,

502
00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:14,320
Speaker 1: but it's got to work. Someone's got to execute on it.

503
00:27:14,359 --> 00:27:16,879
Speaker 1: So you've got to find either business partners or staff

504
00:27:16,920 --> 00:27:20,160
Speaker 1: and or both that can actually help you execute on that. Now,

505
00:27:20,400 --> 00:27:22,200
Speaker 1: how do you find like minded people?

506
00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:25,639
Speaker 2: Well, I think the key thing is not just teaching

507
00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:29,600
Speaker 2: them skills. It's finding people that want to be customer centric.

508
00:27:29,640 --> 00:27:33,320
Speaker 2: It's finding people that like your brand and want to

509
00:27:34,600 --> 00:27:39,040
Speaker 2: They're just got the humble, but they're also ambitious. They

510
00:27:39,800 --> 00:27:42,800
Speaker 2: people people because if you're just turning up, people know

511
00:27:42,920 --> 00:27:46,320
Speaker 2: you're dialing it in. You want to enjoy your work.

512
00:27:46,359 --> 00:27:51,280
Speaker 2: It's infectious by say hey, what a great day.

513
00:27:52,040 --> 00:27:52,760
Speaker 1: How do you find them?

514
00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:53,040
Speaker 2: Though?

515
00:27:53,760 --> 00:27:57,200
Speaker 1: It's not easy because do you ask them certain questions?

516
00:27:58,040 --> 00:28:00,560
Speaker 2: I think you do. Yeah, like you want to treat

517
00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:04,520
Speaker 2: everything as a as a test. You want to maybe

518
00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:06,359
Speaker 2: even give them some paid work. And so I'm going

519
00:28:06,400 --> 00:28:10,600
Speaker 2: to put you on and see you in action. If

520
00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:14,879
Speaker 2: you hire someone that is doing one skill. I always

521
00:28:14,920 --> 00:28:17,760
Speaker 2: talk about hiring salespeople and say hi, two, don't just

522
00:28:17,840 --> 00:28:20,439
Speaker 2: hire one because you don't know if it's the product.

523
00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:22,320
Speaker 2: You don't have a person. You don't know if it's

524
00:28:22,760 --> 00:28:25,800
Speaker 2: one person had a deeper set of connections to begin with,

525
00:28:25,920 --> 00:28:28,840
Speaker 2: you want to compare and then but by getting people

526
00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:33,680
Speaker 2: to want to be customer centric. I think you ask

527
00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:38,040
Speaker 2: questions around what are they interested in? Do they can

528
00:28:38,040 --> 00:28:41,680
Speaker 2: they have a conversation? Can they Are they interested in

529
00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:44,760
Speaker 2: just the pay or are interested in enjoying the job

530
00:28:44,840 --> 00:28:50,160
Speaker 2: and being having fun and not just talking to the coworker.

531
00:28:51,520 --> 00:28:55,880
Speaker 2: Those things matter by making having them understand you are

532
00:28:55,960 --> 00:28:58,959
Speaker 2: part of the product, so you reflect you're our brand

533
00:29:00,120 --> 00:29:03,120
Speaker 2: if you want to do a good job. These are

534
00:29:03,120 --> 00:29:08,400
Speaker 2: some examples, and the constant training that is provided and

535
00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:10,880
Speaker 2: by being able to remember Peter Richie speaking of Peter

536
00:29:10,960 --> 00:29:15,760
Speaker 2: Ritchie from McDonald's who said he invested three times as

537
00:29:15,840 --> 00:29:20,720
Speaker 2: much as the McDonald's globally on training and that was

538
00:29:20,760 --> 00:29:24,880
Speaker 2: because it didn't just make a big difference to the customers,

539
00:29:24,920 --> 00:29:29,360
Speaker 2: it also gave the employee's confidence. And by giving them confidence,

540
00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:32,240
Speaker 2: they get to carry that through in all parts of

541
00:29:32,280 --> 00:29:37,480
Speaker 2: their life. So if you get someone to believe, because

542
00:29:37,520 --> 00:29:41,240
Speaker 2: it's true that you're trying to develop them, and that's

543
00:29:41,280 --> 00:29:44,840
Speaker 2: not just a function of doing the job which you're

544
00:29:44,840 --> 00:29:48,920
Speaker 2: getting paid for and it's a transaction, you're helping someone

545
00:29:49,200 --> 00:29:52,160
Speaker 2: become better at communication, which I think is a secret

546
00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:55,840
Speaker 2: to life is by being able to break down an issue,

547
00:29:56,000 --> 00:29:59,080
Speaker 2: talk to someone asked questions lead them in a way

548
00:29:59,120 --> 00:30:03,200
Speaker 2: that helps them get better. Because I always say, people

549
00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:05,000
Speaker 2: don't care what you know until they know how.

550
00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:07,440
Speaker 1: Much you care you should you tell them that? Should

551
00:30:07,480 --> 00:30:10,960
Speaker 1: you tell these employees that you want to meet them

552
00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:12,640
Speaker 1: to become the best version of themselves?

553
00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:15,360
Speaker 2: I think it helps. I think what the I mean?

554
00:30:15,400 --> 00:30:17,600
Speaker 2: Some people might say, hng on, that's a bit creepy,

555
00:30:17,720 --> 00:30:20,440
Speaker 2: or why do we I mean, isn't this just a job? Well,

556
00:30:20,440 --> 00:30:23,640
Speaker 2: it could be maybe they're the wrong person though, But

557
00:30:23,840 --> 00:30:25,920
Speaker 2: being able to say, well, would you like to have

558
00:30:25,960 --> 00:30:30,280
Speaker 2: a better conversation with your spouse, with your girlfriend or

559
00:30:30,280 --> 00:30:35,400
Speaker 2: your boyfriend or your mates. By learning how to communicate,

560
00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:41,120
Speaker 2: ask questions, be curious, be observant of what people are doing,

561
00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:46,680
Speaker 2: thinking you will be by definition you know, you'll have

562
00:30:46,720 --> 00:30:49,240
Speaker 2: more gravitas or you'll have more charisma, And a lot

563
00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:51,040
Speaker 2: of people think that that helps them in life. And

564
00:30:52,200 --> 00:30:55,040
Speaker 2: by saying, look, we don't just teach you to make coffee.

565
00:30:55,120 --> 00:30:58,280
Speaker 2: Going back to that example, we teach you to be curious,

566
00:30:58,360 --> 00:31:00,719
Speaker 2: We teach you to notice people. We teach you to

567
00:31:01,520 --> 00:31:06,200
Speaker 2: ask questions and be interested and learn, and we're going

568
00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:10,080
Speaker 2: to pay you as well, so it makes it more

569
00:31:10,160 --> 00:31:13,360
Speaker 2: than the job. More than the job is something that

570
00:31:13,400 --> 00:31:15,640
Speaker 2: you're learning, and this is something that you are in

571
00:31:15,640 --> 00:31:18,400
Speaker 2: the ip of. This is something you take throughout your

572
00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:22,040
Speaker 2: life which is helping you in difficult situations. A lot

573
00:31:22,080 --> 00:31:23,880
Speaker 2: of people used to call it soft skills. And I

574
00:31:23,920 --> 00:31:27,600
Speaker 2: was reading a book on the plane coming back yesterday

575
00:31:27,640 --> 00:31:30,160
Speaker 2: from Adam Grant, one of my favorite authors, and he

576
00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:36,680
Speaker 2: talked about people having this thing called hidden talent and

577
00:31:37,320 --> 00:31:41,920
Speaker 2: being curious and wanting to learn around how they get

578
00:31:41,960 --> 00:31:47,520
Speaker 2: to the next level by asking questions and being part

579
00:31:47,560 --> 00:31:52,520
Speaker 2: of a process that makes the whole ecosystem better. And

580
00:31:52,560 --> 00:31:56,000
Speaker 2: like the coffee shop is learning how to and the

581
00:31:56,040 --> 00:31:58,400
Speaker 2: guys that are running it, as you said, they've already

582
00:31:58,440 --> 00:32:00,880
Speaker 2: run another business, so they took all lessons and they

583
00:32:00,920 --> 00:32:03,520
Speaker 2: applied it and it seems to be working really nicely.

584
00:32:03,640 --> 00:32:07,560
Speaker 2: So to me, the key thing is keep learning, being curious,

585
00:32:07,600 --> 00:32:13,400
Speaker 2: and being able to spot people that want that. And

586
00:32:13,520 --> 00:32:15,680
Speaker 2: you've got to want that. If you don't want that,

587
00:32:16,200 --> 00:32:21,760
Speaker 2: they're probably the wrong people to die. So I think

588
00:32:21,800 --> 00:32:25,280
Speaker 2: that it's a combination of finding the right people but

589
00:32:25,360 --> 00:32:28,120
Speaker 2: also explaining what's in it for them to learn.

590
00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:32,840
Speaker 1: But you said something interesting that a moment ago in

591
00:32:32,920 --> 00:32:40,000
Speaker 1: terms of your you said earlier on having co founders,

592
00:32:41,280 --> 00:32:43,280
Speaker 1: and I hear a lot of people, especially in startups,

593
00:32:43,800 --> 00:32:47,240
Speaker 1: particularly if they've got any technology associated with as a startup,

594
00:32:47,240 --> 00:32:49,680
Speaker 1: because you know, you might have a person who's I

595
00:32:49,680 --> 00:32:55,040
Speaker 1: don't know, a scientist who's got great ideas, understanding and

596
00:32:55,320 --> 00:33:00,840
Speaker 1: background and knowledge about a certain topic. But this particular

597
00:33:00,920 --> 00:33:03,440
Speaker 1: thing needs to be put on an app for arguments sake,

598
00:33:03,480 --> 00:33:08,280
Speaker 1: and the app requires someone who can write code for

599
00:33:08,360 --> 00:33:11,720
Speaker 1: arguments and or or someone who can build a brand

600
00:33:11,760 --> 00:33:18,560
Speaker 1: fagamacy when you're but the initial founder idea is with

601
00:33:19,880 --> 00:33:21,840
Speaker 1: let's call it the scientist who has the knowledge what

602
00:33:21,960 --> 00:33:26,320
Speaker 1: in your case, the chart account had the knowledge. How

603
00:33:26,320 --> 00:33:28,120
Speaker 1: do you go about how important is to have a

604
00:33:28,160 --> 00:33:31,400
Speaker 1: co founder and how do you go about finding a

605
00:33:31,400 --> 00:33:32,000
Speaker 1: co founder?

606
00:33:32,960 --> 00:33:36,560
Speaker 2: Well, I think it everybody's got an opinion on whether

607
00:33:36,640 --> 00:33:39,040
Speaker 2: or not someone needs a co founder, and often that

608
00:33:39,280 --> 00:33:41,000
Speaker 2: I think comes down to whether or not the person

609
00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:46,840
Speaker 2: themselves could do it without another person. And again I

610
00:33:46,880 --> 00:33:50,520
Speaker 2: feel like it's very specific to each person. Do they

611
00:33:51,040 --> 00:33:54,920
Speaker 2: have an honest discussion about what their real weaknesses and

612
00:33:55,000 --> 00:33:58,280
Speaker 2: strengths are, what does it take to build a company. So,

613
00:33:58,360 --> 00:34:02,200
Speaker 2: in your example, if the scientist as the tech skills

614
00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:07,880
Speaker 2: maybe to write a platform, build the code, build it

615
00:34:07,920 --> 00:34:10,799
Speaker 2: out so that we've got something to launch. But you're

616
00:34:10,840 --> 00:34:14,319
Speaker 2: a business person, maybe you need that tech person. But

617
00:34:14,400 --> 00:34:17,480
Speaker 2: that's interestingly becoming less and less of a barrier now

618
00:34:17,520 --> 00:34:20,759
Speaker 2: with all this low code software that's come out, so

619
00:34:20,800 --> 00:34:23,400
Speaker 2: people can stand up a website or they can build

620
00:34:23,960 --> 00:34:27,880
Speaker 2: an MVP very easily, like over the weekend, in a

621
00:34:27,920 --> 00:34:32,440
Speaker 2: few hours. Even so, I think that being a co

622
00:34:32,560 --> 00:34:35,959
Speaker 2: founder goes beyond just the technical skills that can be

623
00:34:36,640 --> 00:34:40,120
Speaker 2: if you're someone who likes to have a partner, likes

624
00:34:40,160 --> 00:34:44,400
Speaker 2: to be able to bounce things around, likes to share

625
00:34:44,440 --> 00:34:48,719
Speaker 2: the load, or to be able to explain things in

626
00:34:48,719 --> 00:34:51,799
Speaker 2: a way that you'd like to hear yourself, think, to

627
00:34:52,200 --> 00:34:57,480
Speaker 2: challenge and be there and not just assume everything's going

628
00:34:57,520 --> 00:35:01,040
Speaker 2: to go right because it doesn't. Things are wrong, And

629
00:35:01,080 --> 00:35:03,399
Speaker 2: therefore having the other person who's got just as much

630
00:35:03,440 --> 00:35:07,200
Speaker 2: skin in the game is often important. But sometimes people

631
00:35:07,239 --> 00:35:10,000
Speaker 2: don't need that help, and they can be genuinely very

632
00:35:12,600 --> 00:35:16,239
Speaker 2: you know, capable of doing it without. And I've seen

633
00:35:16,440 --> 00:35:21,120
Speaker 2: some founders, single founders that have built the platform, done

634
00:35:21,200 --> 00:35:25,319
Speaker 2: the distribution. I think one person I'm thinking of is

635
00:35:25,760 --> 00:35:29,440
Speaker 2: building an exceptionally exceptional businesses one I think only one

636
00:35:29,440 --> 00:35:36,000
Speaker 2: employee and his revenue was very, very substantial, like big

637
00:35:36,040 --> 00:35:36,640
Speaker 2: big nuns.

638
00:35:37,560 --> 00:35:40,680
Speaker 1: So, but it's when you look at the companies that

639
00:35:40,719 --> 00:35:43,960
Speaker 1: have succeeded versus the companies that failed, because you know,

640
00:35:43,960 --> 00:35:49,120
Speaker 1: when you go along to investors and or pitching your

641
00:35:49,160 --> 00:35:52,480
Speaker 1: idea to raise money, a lot of times the VC's

642
00:35:52,600 --> 00:35:54,640
Speaker 1: like to see you've got a co founder. They do

643
00:35:54,680 --> 00:35:57,279
Speaker 1: it because it sort of risks their investment to some

644
00:35:57,400 --> 00:36:01,160
Speaker 1: extent because they feel as though you can't do anything

645
00:36:01,239 --> 00:36:04,319
Speaker 1: but b yeah, you get sick and whatever. There's things happen,

646
00:36:04,360 --> 00:36:07,000
Speaker 1: you know, and people can get a little bit stressed

647
00:36:07,280 --> 00:36:10,319
Speaker 1: when they're running it themselves, and you can start to

648
00:36:10,320 --> 00:36:12,439
Speaker 1: get a bit noise in your head and it can

649
00:36:12,440 --> 00:36:13,280
Speaker 1: sern you a bit nuts.

650
00:36:13,400 --> 00:36:15,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, you've got someone that's got just as much skin

651
00:36:15,560 --> 00:36:19,120
Speaker 2: in the game. You've got someone who's your ying to

652
00:36:19,239 --> 00:36:24,759
Speaker 2: yang different skills different and obviously vcs they think, well,

653
00:36:24,800 --> 00:36:27,520
Speaker 2: hang on, if someone goes, then does that IP go

654
00:36:28,760 --> 00:36:31,840
Speaker 2: Do they need to hire someone? What what's the infrastructure

655
00:36:32,000 --> 00:36:34,480
Speaker 2: look like in terms of who does what? Where? Are

656
00:36:34,480 --> 00:36:38,640
Speaker 2: the real skills? Are they complimentary? Are they doing something

657
00:36:38,640 --> 00:36:41,640
Speaker 2: different because they just know divide and conquer or do

658
00:36:41,719 --> 00:36:46,000
Speaker 2: they have very overlapping skills as well. Just depends on

659
00:36:46,040 --> 00:36:50,040
Speaker 2: the team. But I think vcs often default for having

660
00:36:50,040 --> 00:36:54,399
Speaker 2: a co founder, but it's not necessarily absolute because there's

661
00:36:54,400 --> 00:36:58,560
Speaker 2: some pretty exceptional founders out there that haven't got a

662
00:36:58,560 --> 00:37:01,680
Speaker 2: co founder. But I think as a general rule, it's

663
00:37:01,760 --> 00:37:05,520
Speaker 2: nice to have somebody, particularly from a VC's point of view,

664
00:37:05,560 --> 00:37:08,880
Speaker 2: and they're going, well, what if someone leaves, what happens

665
00:37:08,880 --> 00:37:12,719
Speaker 2: to their shares? What happens to their the team and

666
00:37:13,280 --> 00:37:16,160
Speaker 2: the shares reset? Do they get you know, those shares

667
00:37:16,200 --> 00:37:20,200
Speaker 2: don't vest, they their laps, which often helps the VC.

668
00:37:20,560 --> 00:37:23,400
Speaker 2: But again it's usually not a good idea if the

669
00:37:23,560 --> 00:37:26,720
Speaker 2: founder leaves, particularly if they were bringing value. But often

670
00:37:26,760 --> 00:37:30,279
Speaker 2: that's because they haven't figured out some of the key

671
00:37:30,320 --> 00:37:32,560
Speaker 2: proof points that they need to do before they run

672
00:37:32,640 --> 00:37:35,000
Speaker 2: out of trust, they run out of money, and they

673
00:37:35,120 --> 00:37:35,799
Speaker 2: run out of time.

674
00:37:36,480 --> 00:37:38,440
Speaker 1: But generally speaking, because I mean I gave an example

675
00:37:38,480 --> 00:37:41,640
Speaker 1: of the conference shop next door, but there's three founders there,

676
00:37:41,680 --> 00:37:43,560
Speaker 1: three co founders, and they all know which id really well,

677
00:37:44,200 --> 00:37:47,239
Speaker 1: and they're like family, really like they just live their

678
00:37:47,239 --> 00:37:52,399
Speaker 1: lives together like quite literally and seven days a week,

679
00:37:52,400 --> 00:37:56,120
Speaker 1: and as do their families, and seems so far it

680
00:37:56,160 --> 00:37:58,759
Speaker 1: seems to work quite well. You know, they've been my

681
00:37:58,840 --> 00:38:00,680
Speaker 1: tenant for a long, long, long time, and you know

682
00:38:00,960 --> 00:38:03,279
Speaker 1: they've always been on paid, on time. Everything's going well.

683
00:38:03,520 --> 00:38:06,960
Speaker 1: I can just observe it's doing well. But in terms

684
00:38:06,960 --> 00:38:09,919
Speaker 1: of choosing your co founder, they've got, as you said,

685
00:38:09,960 --> 00:38:12,759
Speaker 1: overlapping skills. But that allows someone to take couple of

686
00:38:12,800 --> 00:38:14,279
Speaker 1: days of because I know if I take a day

687
00:38:14,320 --> 00:38:16,880
Speaker 1: off that my partner he or she can go and

688
00:38:16,920 --> 00:38:19,480
Speaker 1: do this exactly what I can do, which means I

689
00:38:19,480 --> 00:38:21,200
Speaker 1: can sort of relax. I'm not going to be sit

690
00:38:21,239 --> 00:38:24,239
Speaker 1: at home on the weekend thinking prepare. Yeah, bloody hell,

691
00:38:24,280 --> 00:38:26,040
Speaker 1: they're going to stuff the whole business up because they

692
00:38:26,080 --> 00:38:30,799
Speaker 1: don't have any personality or skills, or can't cook a meal,

693
00:38:30,920 --> 00:38:32,759
Speaker 1: or can't make a coffee, whatever the case may be.

694
00:38:33,680 --> 00:38:38,480
Speaker 1: The overlapping skills is probably quite handy sometimes. But do

695
00:38:38,520 --> 00:38:41,080
Speaker 1: you find that have you found in your thirty odd

696
00:38:41,120 --> 00:38:45,280
Speaker 1: years and doing this stuff that co founders, sorry founders

697
00:38:45,280 --> 00:38:49,120
Speaker 1: with co founders tend to do a bit better on

698
00:38:49,360 --> 00:38:50,720
Speaker 1: single founders.

699
00:38:50,719 --> 00:38:55,840
Speaker 2: I think as a general rule, yes, Because as you

700
00:38:56,080 --> 00:38:59,879
Speaker 2: touched on you when you're just left alone in your thoughts,

701
00:39:00,160 --> 00:39:03,400
Speaker 2: got anyone to bounce things off, and when you're thinking

702
00:39:03,480 --> 00:39:05,560
Speaker 2: is this a good idea, and you're going well, probably

703
00:39:05,680 --> 00:39:08,040
Speaker 2: is because I thought of it. Maybe, But if you've

704
00:39:08,080 --> 00:39:12,719
Speaker 2: got someone to bounce it off and be a jousting partner,

705
00:39:13,000 --> 00:39:16,440
Speaker 2: so that the best ideas that are both loved by

706
00:39:16,480 --> 00:39:20,239
Speaker 2: both might get through to the top and executed on

707
00:39:20,440 --> 00:39:24,279
Speaker 2: versus people where they don't have anyone to bounce things off.

708
00:39:24,320 --> 00:39:27,360
Speaker 1: But because it's pretty lonely out there in business.

709
00:39:27,320 --> 00:39:29,759
Speaker 2: Absolutely, I think that's one of the key things that

710
00:39:29,960 --> 00:39:33,880
Speaker 2: founders complained about, apart from can't raise money, it's lonely,

711
00:39:34,880 --> 00:39:35,279
Speaker 2: they have.

712
00:39:36,760 --> 00:39:38,400
Speaker 1: Le exigning. It's not that exigning.

713
00:39:39,440 --> 00:39:43,520
Speaker 2: A lot of people think it's overrated being a startup founder,

714
00:39:43,520 --> 00:39:45,920
Speaker 2: and I think, but it is a very noble thing

715
00:39:45,960 --> 00:39:47,879
Speaker 2: to do, go and try and solve a problem where

716
00:39:47,880 --> 00:39:51,480
Speaker 2: you may well have no right to actually solve with

717
00:39:51,640 --> 00:39:57,480
Speaker 2: limited money, limited time, limited capacity, massive competitors that are

718
00:39:57,800 --> 00:40:02,480
Speaker 2: much more funded than you. So but it's exciting as well,

719
00:40:02,520 --> 00:40:04,799
Speaker 2: Like it's really one of the most exciting things to

720
00:40:04,840 --> 00:40:07,240
Speaker 2: do is to build a company from nothing.

721
00:40:07,680 --> 00:40:09,880
Speaker 1: In terms of executions, it's something interesting. Right at we're

722
00:40:09,920 --> 00:40:13,520
Speaker 1: beginning to it's about continually being curious and learning. So

723
00:40:14,000 --> 00:40:15,960
Speaker 1: and I'm sorry to keep going back to the coffee shop.

724
00:40:16,000 --> 00:40:19,320
Speaker 1: But what's interesting is that I've noticed over the past

725
00:40:20,680 --> 00:40:26,440
Speaker 1: six months that coffee shops, a lot of coffee shops

726
00:40:26,440 --> 00:40:32,839
Speaker 1: now have Matcha that Japanese the Green Green, and they've

727
00:40:32,880 --> 00:40:35,359
Speaker 1: all quite a few more to say, you know, it's

728
00:40:35,360 --> 00:40:37,840
Speaker 1: a ceremonial matcher. I don't know if that means, but

729
00:40:38,000 --> 00:40:41,200
Speaker 1: maybe it's organic or something like that, but high quality.

730
00:40:41,800 --> 00:40:46,560
Speaker 1: I'm assuming it means it's high quality. So I think

731
00:40:46,600 --> 00:40:51,120
Speaker 1: what you're saying is if you want to service your community,

732
00:40:51,840 --> 00:40:54,279
Speaker 1: and like around here, communities change all the time. The

733
00:40:54,400 --> 00:40:57,480
Speaker 1: demographics change here all the time. They go at one stage,

734
00:40:57,480 --> 00:40:59,680
Speaker 1: this is a pretty crappy area, you know, like it

735
00:40:59,800 --> 00:41:04,000
Speaker 1: was or socioeconomically was a bit more down market so

736
00:41:04,080 --> 00:41:06,440
Speaker 1: to speak. Now it's sort of changing and it's becoming

737
00:41:06,480 --> 00:41:08,759
Speaker 1: more like say Paddington or whatever. It's going to be

738
00:41:08,760 --> 00:41:12,400
Speaker 1: a bit more fancy, and that demographic brings with a

739
00:41:12,400 --> 00:41:16,120
Speaker 1: whole set of new tastes. And you, as the proprietor,

740
00:41:17,440 --> 00:41:20,440
Speaker 1: are you saying that you're going to make sure you

741
00:41:20,480 --> 00:41:23,239
Speaker 1: serve your community. Don't just thing I just coffee is

742
00:41:23,239 --> 00:41:25,000
Speaker 1: always welled. I've got to keep giving him a coffee

743
00:41:25,200 --> 00:41:30,160
Speaker 1: because how do I, if I'm in business, how do

744
00:41:30,200 --> 00:41:32,600
Speaker 1: I make sure that I don't miss that match of community?

745
00:41:33,040 --> 00:41:35,160
Speaker 1: And because I don't have Matcha, because someone might have

746
00:41:35,160 --> 00:41:38,239
Speaker 1: a coffee first and a match A second, but if

747
00:41:38,239 --> 00:41:39,800
Speaker 1: they don't, if I don't have Matcha, they're going to go.

748
00:41:39,920 --> 00:41:41,640
Speaker 1: So I'm not going to that place any We're going

749
00:41:41,640 --> 00:41:44,000
Speaker 1: to get on the road because they've got Matcha. How

750
00:41:44,000 --> 00:41:46,080
Speaker 1: do I stay curious enough? And what does that mean

751
00:41:46,080 --> 00:41:48,480
Speaker 1: by being curious to stay on top of the product

752
00:41:48,880 --> 00:41:51,640
Speaker 1: suite that the consumer wants that I've been servicing.

753
00:41:51,880 --> 00:41:54,240
Speaker 2: Well, I think it's not taking the custom for granted

754
00:41:54,280 --> 00:41:58,080
Speaker 2: for starters. And the metaphor that is often used is

755
00:41:58,800 --> 00:42:03,880
Speaker 2: your market is like a starving crowd, but it's also

756
00:42:04,239 --> 00:42:08,040
Speaker 2: marching past you. So it's changing all the time. The components,

757
00:42:08,160 --> 00:42:13,560
Speaker 2: the direction, the their needs are changing, so nobody is

758
00:42:13,600 --> 00:42:16,120
Speaker 2: really standing still. And as a result, the only way

759
00:42:16,239 --> 00:42:21,000
Speaker 2: to really understand what their needs are is to be

760
00:42:21,120 --> 00:42:25,040
Speaker 2: engaged and have conversations with them and say, you know,

761
00:42:26,040 --> 00:42:28,920
Speaker 2: you're not saying constantly did you like the coffee today?

762
00:42:29,040 --> 00:42:31,520
Speaker 2: You know, but you're saying what are you? What are

763
00:42:31,560 --> 00:42:34,799
Speaker 2: you guys saying any competitors around any thinking something's cool?

764
00:42:34,840 --> 00:42:37,600
Speaker 2: What else are you? Is this? You know, why do

765
00:42:37,640 --> 00:42:40,680
Speaker 2: you come here? Rather than asking them the same question

766
00:42:40,719 --> 00:42:44,040
Speaker 2: at the time, which sounds boring, you go what's your

767
00:42:44,040 --> 00:42:47,040
Speaker 2: favorite drink of the mart? Like we've been thinking about

768
00:42:47,120 --> 00:42:48,359
Speaker 2: changing a menu? What would you do?

769
00:42:49,400 --> 00:42:51,000
Speaker 1: Should you get off your button? Especially we've got a

770
00:42:51,040 --> 00:42:53,520
Speaker 1: partner and say to your barn go to every single

771
00:42:53,680 --> 00:42:57,920
Speaker 1: cafe in you know, like in the five aligning areas

772
00:42:58,239 --> 00:43:03,800
Speaker 1: maybe Mossman, Neutral Bay City, whatever, Darning Earth, et cetera.

773
00:43:03,960 --> 00:43:07,040
Speaker 1: And see what everyone else is serving. Yeah, and then

774
00:43:07,040 --> 00:43:09,480
Speaker 1: find out what people asking for. I mean they're doing

775
00:43:09,480 --> 00:43:11,880
Speaker 1: the research, say thinking, oh I'm good?

776
00:43:12,160 --> 00:43:12,719
Speaker 2: How good are we?

777
00:43:13,280 --> 00:43:16,239
Speaker 1: Everyone loves our coffee, which could be just great, but

778
00:43:16,320 --> 00:43:19,840
Speaker 1: it doesn't last forever. Things change, They do, taste refine,

779
00:43:20,040 --> 00:43:21,640
Speaker 1: it does very quickly.

780
00:43:21,800 --> 00:43:24,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's Is that what you mean by

781
00:43:24,560 --> 00:43:25,280
Speaker 2: being curious?

782
00:43:25,920 --> 00:43:26,920
Speaker 1: Do something about it?

783
00:43:27,200 --> 00:43:30,760
Speaker 2: Absolutely, Like I mean, I always ask myself this question,

784
00:43:30,760 --> 00:43:31,440
Speaker 2: what have I missed?

785
00:43:33,719 --> 00:43:34,880
Speaker 1: So be a little bit paranoid.

786
00:43:34,960 --> 00:43:36,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, be a little bit paranoid. You've got to be

787
00:43:37,160 --> 00:43:40,200
Speaker 2: to start a business. You've got to be part pathological

788
00:43:40,480 --> 00:43:47,240
Speaker 2: optimist and part paranoid about what have I missed? Because

789
00:43:48,120 --> 00:43:52,040
Speaker 2: you have to get it right every day, turn up, deliver,

790
00:43:52,440 --> 00:43:56,280
Speaker 2: be customer centric, look after your team, look after your stakeholders,

791
00:43:56,800 --> 00:44:00,680
Speaker 2: don't run out o money, create more margin. It's all

792
00:44:00,719 --> 00:44:02,880
Speaker 2: there to be done. That's why it's damn hard, and

793
00:44:02,920 --> 00:44:05,319
Speaker 2: it's done well. It's a site to behold. That's the

794
00:44:05,320 --> 00:44:11,840
Speaker 2: exciting part. By staying curious, it's around putting the customer

795
00:44:11,880 --> 00:44:14,239
Speaker 2: at the center of the page. It's being able to

796
00:44:15,080 --> 00:44:19,000
Speaker 2: understand their world better than they can themselves, being able

797
00:44:19,040 --> 00:44:23,440
Speaker 2: to anticipate their needs because they don't know what their

798
00:44:23,440 --> 00:44:26,960
Speaker 2: needs are. They but you can observe people saying that

799
00:44:26,960 --> 00:44:29,920
Speaker 2: they didn't finish the coffee or you know where. This

800
00:44:29,920 --> 00:44:32,600
Speaker 2: is a great episode for coffee. We're going into.

801
00:44:32,480 --> 00:44:34,440
Speaker 1: Pretty simple because I're just trying to pick the lowest

802
00:44:34,520 --> 00:44:35,000
Speaker 1: common delight.

803
00:44:35,080 --> 00:44:38,160
Speaker 2: Absolutely, I started with a couple of good coffees today,

804
00:44:39,120 --> 00:44:43,680
Speaker 2: and I think it's around not just focusing on what

805
00:44:43,719 --> 00:44:46,600
Speaker 2: other people are doing, because I feel that can be

806
00:44:46,680 --> 00:44:51,359
Speaker 2: quite lazy to say. And how people price as well,

807
00:44:51,400 --> 00:44:54,319
Speaker 2: like saying I'll use or compare my price to someone else.

808
00:44:54,320 --> 00:44:57,399
Speaker 2: But you should know how much value you create rather

809
00:44:57,440 --> 00:45:00,840
Speaker 2: than just copying someone. If you're copying someone, you be

810
00:45:00,960 --> 00:45:05,480
Speaker 2: easy to copy. You don't have any real competitive advantage.

811
00:45:05,800 --> 00:45:11,280
Speaker 2: So by being able to be curious about customer's needs

812
00:45:11,280 --> 00:45:15,440
Speaker 2: and anticipating them and testing your theories and assumptions and

813
00:45:16,120 --> 00:45:21,720
Speaker 2: the insights that you constantly, this is the rate of model,

814
00:45:21,719 --> 00:45:24,640
Speaker 2: which is a what's the reality of people still drinking

815
00:45:24,680 --> 00:45:27,400
Speaker 2: just as much coffee? I mean, for example, beer drinking

816
00:45:27,440 --> 00:45:31,440
Speaker 2: has changed. There's non alcoholic drinks. Now, there's companies like Liars.

817
00:45:31,600 --> 00:45:35,880
Speaker 2: The people are changing to Kombcher. But then they're wanting

818
00:45:35,920 --> 00:45:39,279
Speaker 2: Matcha and they're wanting this, So nobody wants necessarily the

819
00:45:39,320 --> 00:45:41,640
Speaker 2: same thing. That's the mistake to make to say the

820
00:45:41,760 --> 00:45:45,840
Speaker 2: customer will always want my product. Customer may not. Customer

821
00:45:45,920 --> 00:45:48,920
Speaker 2: goes next door, you closed on a Saturday, you missed out,

822
00:45:48,920 --> 00:45:52,240
Speaker 2: You've lost a customer. So what is important to the customer?

823
00:45:52,280 --> 00:45:55,319
Speaker 2: What can you communicate to the customer as well? What

824
00:45:55,440 --> 00:45:59,520
Speaker 2: is the process around getting them to understand your business

825
00:45:59,520 --> 00:46:04,640
Speaker 2: better and understanding how you deliver value and testing? Is

826
00:46:04,680 --> 00:46:05,920
Speaker 2: that meeting their demand?

827
00:46:06,280 --> 00:46:07,960
Speaker 1: It's funny you should say today because I was just

828
00:46:07,960 --> 00:46:13,160
Speaker 1: thinking about some a podcast podcaster the other day and

829
00:46:13,640 --> 00:46:18,799
Speaker 1: this particular podcaster talks about it's very good at talking

830
00:46:18,800 --> 00:46:22,560
Speaker 1: about one topic or one subject matter, very really good.

831
00:46:23,120 --> 00:46:26,520
Speaker 1: But that subject matter only exists for maybe nine months

832
00:46:26,560 --> 00:46:28,960
Speaker 1: of the year during a season. It's a seasonal thing,

833
00:46:29,800 --> 00:46:33,239
Speaker 1: and they build up their audience during that nine month

834
00:46:33,320 --> 00:46:37,839
Speaker 1: period and putting one out a week, And because during

835
00:46:37,840 --> 00:46:39,680
Speaker 1: that nine month period there is something new to talk

836
00:46:39,680 --> 00:46:42,600
Speaker 1: about every week as a result of outcomes from the weekend,

837
00:46:42,680 --> 00:46:45,600
Speaker 1: for example, and then they put together a podcast, and

838
00:46:45,640 --> 00:46:48,080
Speaker 1: they do the podcast during the week and they keep

839
00:46:48,120 --> 00:46:54,880
Speaker 1: feeding their consumer customer. But then that seasonality stops, and

840
00:46:54,920 --> 00:46:58,320
Speaker 1: then for three to four months of the year, there's

841
00:46:58,600 --> 00:47:05,800
Speaker 1: nothing happening in that particular subject matter. And I always

842
00:47:05,840 --> 00:47:08,879
Speaker 1: thought it to myself, for that three for months, if

843
00:47:08,880 --> 00:47:12,200
Speaker 1: you don't run podcasts for those three four months, you

844
00:47:12,200 --> 00:47:15,080
Speaker 1: shouldn't expect those people who've been watching your podcast or

845
00:47:15,120 --> 00:47:17,080
Speaker 1: listening to a podcast to come back to you next

846
00:47:17,160 --> 00:47:20,040
Speaker 1: year when the season starts again. You've got to keep

847
00:47:20,239 --> 00:47:25,240
Speaker 1: giving them something. And because people used to a rhythm

848
00:47:25,239 --> 00:47:27,640
Speaker 1: of a weekly rhythm, I'm trying to move away from

849
00:47:27,680 --> 00:47:30,799
Speaker 1: coffee shops and we're moving into podcasts. And because if

850
00:47:30,800 --> 00:47:32,239
Speaker 1: you start these things, you've got to You've got to

851
00:47:32,280 --> 00:47:35,359
Speaker 1: be prepared to keep going completely and like it might,

852
00:47:35,440 --> 00:47:37,480
Speaker 1: you might even have to be prepared to go from

853
00:47:37,480 --> 00:47:41,399
Speaker 1: one week to you know three every two weeks or something.

854
00:47:42,520 --> 00:47:44,439
Speaker 1: You've got to be prepared for this. You can't just say,

855
00:47:44,520 --> 00:47:45,960
Speaker 1: oh no, I'm just gonna go for the season. At

856
00:47:45,960 --> 00:47:47,120
Speaker 1: the end of the season, I'm gonna have a break

857
00:47:47,120 --> 00:47:50,080
Speaker 1: too for three months. And you used to see it,

858
00:47:50,120 --> 00:47:52,000
Speaker 1: for example, you see it on the Footage show. You know,

859
00:47:52,040 --> 00:47:56,040
Speaker 1: the Footage Show would go, you know, nine o'clock whatever

860
00:47:56,080 --> 00:47:57,560
Speaker 1: time was on on Thursday nights, and then when the

861
00:47:57,560 --> 00:48:00,480
Speaker 1: football season finished, it was finished and people would go

862
00:48:00,520 --> 00:48:03,879
Speaker 1: and get their sport fixed from other places. That gave

863
00:48:04,000 --> 00:48:07,560
Speaker 1: people like Foxtel an opportunity to grab you absolutely. You know,

864
00:48:07,600 --> 00:48:10,440
Speaker 1: they would start talking about cricket and boxing and golf

865
00:48:10,480 --> 00:48:12,759
Speaker 1: and tennis and every other thing that comes on during

866
00:48:12,760 --> 00:48:15,759
Speaker 1: the summer season, and all of a sudden you get diluted.

867
00:48:16,440 --> 00:48:19,520
Speaker 1: And then when your consumer wants to come back next year,

868
00:48:19,560 --> 00:48:21,640
Speaker 1: they're thinking, why, I'm getting a pretty good feed from

869
00:48:21,640 --> 00:48:26,359
Speaker 1: Foxtel now, so maybe you'll just stay with Foxtel. I

870
00:48:26,360 --> 00:48:28,080
Speaker 1: can't be stuff to change and I'm not going to

871
00:48:28,080 --> 00:48:31,000
Speaker 1: go I mean you don't. All right, let's say you

872
00:48:31,000 --> 00:48:34,160
Speaker 1: had a one hundred thousand listeners, but if you lose

873
00:48:34,880 --> 00:48:38,080
Speaker 1: ten thousand, that's quite a lot. Absolutely, Yeah, it's ten

874
00:48:38,080 --> 00:48:41,440
Speaker 1: percent of your base. And I'm not saying everyone's going

875
00:48:41,480 --> 00:48:43,000
Speaker 1: to go and go back to stay with the fox

876
00:48:43,000 --> 00:48:46,200
Speaker 1: Stell on that example, But how important is it to

877
00:48:46,800 --> 00:48:53,120
Speaker 1: remain in people's sphere mind share? Yeah, we call the

878
00:48:53,160 --> 00:48:53,879
Speaker 1: mind share share.

879
00:48:53,960 --> 00:48:58,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, like, if you're not relevant, you've lost you know,

880
00:48:58,640 --> 00:49:00,759
Speaker 2: you've got to stay relevant, You've got to keep in

881
00:49:00,760 --> 00:49:05,160
Speaker 2: the cycle of having especially these days. Yeah, absolutely, people

882
00:49:05,200 --> 00:49:11,240
Speaker 2: have got the attention spans of you know, golf golfish.

883
00:49:11,320 --> 00:49:16,759
Speaker 2: So by being relevant and consistent, like people say they're

884
00:49:16,960 --> 00:49:20,960
Speaker 2: like consistency, but they also like variety. So getting it

885
00:49:21,160 --> 00:49:25,040
Speaker 2: right is very is very hard. So by having a

886
00:49:25,040 --> 00:49:29,480
Speaker 2: podcast that disappears for three months, you potentially lose all

887
00:49:29,480 --> 00:49:30,160
Speaker 2: of those people.

888
00:49:30,239 --> 00:49:31,719
Speaker 1: You don't If I'm you're a competition, I'm going to

889
00:49:31,760 --> 00:49:33,920
Speaker 1: love that. Yeah, I'll take advantage of that.

890
00:49:34,120 --> 00:49:36,520
Speaker 2: There's a niche, there's a there's a gap in the market.

891
00:49:36,600 --> 00:49:40,160
Speaker 2: There's a space for people that just need the routine

892
00:49:40,239 --> 00:49:44,280
Speaker 2: of having their podcast because they're driving or they're listening

893
00:49:44,320 --> 00:49:47,680
Speaker 2: and they're enjoying something about it. It's their routine. People

894
00:49:47,760 --> 00:49:48,560
Speaker 2: love a routine.

895
00:49:48,760 --> 00:49:50,440
Speaker 1: And if they know you come out every Monday, not

896
00:49:50,480 --> 00:49:54,080
Speaker 1: at six pm, it nearly becomes podcast by appointment. Yes,

897
00:49:54,440 --> 00:49:55,719
Speaker 1: so now all of a sudden you're not there at

898
00:49:55,719 --> 00:49:57,960
Speaker 1: six pm, they'll fill that gap with something else.

899
00:49:58,000 --> 00:49:59,799
Speaker 2: You go to the gym, you have your podcast, you go,

900
00:50:00,280 --> 00:50:02,240
Speaker 2: you do this. Like people love routine.

901
00:50:02,480 --> 00:50:05,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, and if it's a good quality podcast like yours,

902
00:50:06,040 --> 00:50:12,160
Speaker 3: people tune in and they expect to be entertained and

903
00:50:12,360 --> 00:50:13,240
Speaker 3: they learned something.

904
00:50:13,400 --> 00:50:14,400
Speaker 2: What a great combination.

905
00:50:14,719 --> 00:50:18,600
Speaker 1: And when it comes to entertainment, entertainment it doesn't just

906
00:50:18,719 --> 00:50:23,720
Speaker 1: mean make your laugh, it means information. Because the news

907
00:50:23,800 --> 00:50:25,160
Speaker 1: is part of the entertainment cycle.

908
00:50:25,640 --> 00:50:26,600
Speaker 2: That's quite entertaining.

909
00:50:26,680 --> 00:50:30,879
Speaker 1: It is quitetain but like you know that, that's sort

910
00:50:30,880 --> 00:50:38,720
Speaker 1: of entertainment covers everything, information, data, whether you know, fun sport,

911
00:50:39,600 --> 00:50:42,560
Speaker 1: it covers just better everything. So entertainment and if if

912
00:50:42,600 --> 00:50:44,920
Speaker 1: you're in a podcast, well that's your game. You're entertaining.

913
00:50:44,960 --> 00:50:46,680
Speaker 1: So you've got to keep entertaining. People want to be

914
00:50:46,680 --> 00:50:49,160
Speaker 1: continually entertained. It doesn't stop going.

915
00:50:49,080 --> 00:50:51,359
Speaker 2: Back to you're curious, like you're just saying, what's going on?

916
00:50:52,160 --> 00:50:56,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, So in terms of execution, how important is consistency

917
00:50:56,600 --> 00:50:58,600
Speaker 1: like that? By way of the example I just gave.

918
00:50:58,440 --> 00:51:01,919
Speaker 2: You, I think it's massively important to have the consistency

919
00:51:02,000 --> 00:51:07,640
Speaker 2: so that people know that your brand is reliable. People

920
00:51:07,640 --> 00:51:10,719
Speaker 2: are going to keep tuning in or keep buying your

921
00:51:10,719 --> 00:51:13,920
Speaker 2: product because it delivers the value they expect to have

922
00:51:14,000 --> 00:51:18,720
Speaker 2: each and every time. And that's what develops loyalty, that habit,

923
00:51:18,840 --> 00:51:22,719
Speaker 2: the process, the it's it's the product. That's just how

924
00:51:22,800 --> 00:51:26,839
Speaker 2: people remember what they're doing when they are absorbing it

925
00:51:26,960 --> 00:51:30,840
Speaker 2: or having it, or the smell of the coffee, whatever

926
00:51:30,840 --> 00:51:35,680
Speaker 2: it is that just inculcates their their psyche. It's not

927
00:51:35,760 --> 00:51:37,800
Speaker 2: just the taste, it's the whole process.

928
00:51:38,400 --> 00:51:41,320
Speaker 1: Is the tone and talk about podcasts about tone voice.

929
00:51:41,440 --> 00:51:47,160
Speaker 1: So your book here which is it says here, praise

930
00:51:47,680 --> 00:51:50,759
Speaker 1: the back here we've got a couple of people doing reviews.

931
00:51:51,280 --> 00:51:53,560
Speaker 1: I can't read it with a class, but praise RebC

932
00:51:54,400 --> 00:52:00,560
Speaker 1: execution and David Kenny from Vision to Velocity, and it

933
00:52:00,600 --> 00:52:05,000
Speaker 1: talks about what your books trying to promote. If I

934
00:52:05,080 --> 00:52:07,360
Speaker 1: was to if you were to tell me what your chapters,

935
00:52:07,960 --> 00:52:09,360
Speaker 1: you don't need to go through of your chapter, but

936
00:52:10,040 --> 00:52:12,360
Speaker 1: how is it the book structured in terms of chapters

937
00:52:12,400 --> 00:52:17,240
Speaker 1: around the executioner being epicat executing. I notice you're twenty

938
00:52:17,440 --> 00:52:22,400
Speaker 1: four world class execution selling to Goliath. Let's steal a

939
00:52:22,440 --> 00:52:27,640
Speaker 1: fortune five hundred customer from our competitor, still a fortune

940
00:52:27,640 --> 00:52:30,719
Speaker 1: five and customer from our competitor starts selling rookie mistakes.

941
00:52:30,840 --> 00:52:33,040
Speaker 1: I love that one. How much can I raise which

942
00:52:33,040 --> 00:52:38,359
Speaker 1: we're raising money? Hiring teams? Great, HR starts from the top.

943
00:52:38,920 --> 00:52:43,719
Speaker 1: Sure does you talk about business models mentors? Well, you're

944
00:52:43,719 --> 00:52:46,799
Speaker 1: covering which every first chapter. That's your first chapter, the

945
00:52:46,840 --> 00:52:52,719
Speaker 1: three es central truths, and I'm doing with that. It's

946
00:52:52,719 --> 00:52:54,960
Speaker 1: the six traits of disruptive founders, the same as the

947
00:52:55,000 --> 00:52:59,560
Speaker 1: same number the problem. And I just asked you the

948
00:52:59,640 --> 00:53:04,359
Speaker 1: question answering myself, but which are the chapters that do

949
00:53:04,440 --> 00:53:07,080
Speaker 1: you find that are really enriching. I mean you're going

950
00:53:07,080 --> 00:53:07,799
Speaker 1: to say everyone, but.

951
00:53:08,080 --> 00:53:13,160
Speaker 2: No, actually, I mean I almost didn't write a finance chapter.

952
00:53:13,600 --> 00:53:15,400
Speaker 2: It was just that people said, no, you need to,

953
00:53:15,640 --> 00:53:16,040
Speaker 2: you have to.

954
00:53:16,160 --> 00:53:19,759
Speaker 1: Yeah, you appeel like you we think that's boring, but

955
00:53:19,920 --> 00:53:20,480
Speaker 1: it isn't.

956
00:53:21,080 --> 00:53:25,640
Speaker 2: Yeah. I really do feel like my favorite chapter is

957
00:53:25,680 --> 00:53:26,680
Speaker 2: on storytelling.

958
00:53:27,320 --> 00:53:31,200
Speaker 1: That's chapter nine, storytelling, getting to the truth. Yeah, you've

959
00:53:31,200 --> 00:53:33,280
Speaker 1: actually got a chapter on finding your co founder?

960
00:53:33,360 --> 00:53:35,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, I do. Yeah. I feel like what I've done

961
00:53:35,719 --> 00:53:41,239
Speaker 2: is try to sequence the process from thinking I want

962
00:53:41,280 --> 00:53:43,800
Speaker 2: to do something, I want to start in a business,

963
00:53:44,400 --> 00:53:47,000
Speaker 2: from working out is it you? Can you do it?

964
00:53:48,160 --> 00:53:50,080
Speaker 2: Are you going to give up the next seven years

965
00:53:50,120 --> 00:53:53,359
Speaker 2: of your life to do this? So can you even

966
00:53:53,400 --> 00:53:55,879
Speaker 2: get to a million dollars in revenue? Are you going

967
00:53:55,880 --> 00:53:57,360
Speaker 2: to need someone to do it with, like a co

968
00:53:57,480 --> 00:53:59,600
Speaker 2: found If you do, how are you going to choose

969
00:53:59,600 --> 00:54:01,600
Speaker 2: that person? What are the traits you're looking for? What

970
00:54:01,640 --> 00:54:04,839
Speaker 2: are the questions? And what are the rules of engagement

971
00:54:04,960 --> 00:54:08,400
Speaker 2: so that you just don't have you make less mistakes.

972
00:54:08,440 --> 00:54:12,120
Speaker 2: So the whole point writing the book was there's probably

973
00:54:12,120 --> 00:54:16,839
Speaker 2: the ten thousand conversations I've had with founders that I've said, well,

974
00:54:16,840 --> 00:54:19,040
Speaker 2: what are the most important bits of those ten thousand

975
00:54:19,080 --> 00:54:24,920
Speaker 2: conversations with people that I think that would be interesting

976
00:54:25,000 --> 00:54:29,000
Speaker 2: to read because they've got to be in enough detail

977
00:54:29,320 --> 00:54:31,960
Speaker 2: so that you get what I'm saying. But they've also

978
00:54:32,000 --> 00:54:34,080
Speaker 2: got to be question led, because that way I can

979
00:54:34,120 --> 00:54:36,799
Speaker 2: be evergreen this book to say rather than saying there's

980
00:54:36,880 --> 00:54:40,759
Speaker 2: a set of questions you need to ask but what

981
00:54:40,880 --> 00:54:43,520
Speaker 2: I don't know your circumstances. So I'm giving your framework

982
00:54:43,600 --> 00:54:46,160
Speaker 2: to think about what the problem is. And then in

983
00:54:46,239 --> 00:54:49,360
Speaker 2: the individual chapters like storytelling or who are the stories

984
00:54:49,400 --> 00:54:51,440
Speaker 2: you're telling? Who are the people you're trying to tell

985
00:54:51,480 --> 00:54:54,759
Speaker 2: the story to your team, even your mum, like what

986
00:54:54,760 --> 00:54:57,799
Speaker 2: are you doing for a living? Yeah? Test them, understand them,

987
00:54:57,920 --> 00:55:01,400
Speaker 2: be able to explain, be you know, I know that

988
00:55:01,440 --> 00:55:04,000
Speaker 2: if you've got a product that your whole team can explain,

989
00:55:04,080 --> 00:55:05,839
Speaker 2: it's a lot easier for them to have buy in.

990
00:55:06,400 --> 00:55:08,400
Speaker 1: It's it's interesting. I was just looking at the chapter

991
00:55:08,480 --> 00:55:13,960
Speaker 1: on finding a co founder, and you just go, complementary

992
00:55:14,000 --> 00:55:16,839
Speaker 1: skills are needed, There's no there's a lot of work

993
00:55:16,880 --> 00:55:18,960
Speaker 1: to do, so sweat equity Partner's important to try and

994
00:55:19,000 --> 00:55:24,240
Speaker 1: find risk. Disposure of a solo founder is high because

995
00:55:24,280 --> 00:55:27,280
Speaker 1: the business hangs on one person, so all of a sudden,

996
00:55:27,320 --> 00:55:31,600
Speaker 1: you become a riskier business to invest in. And only

997
00:55:31,680 --> 00:55:34,240
Speaker 1: an invested co founder with an equity state in business

998
00:55:34,239 --> 00:55:37,920
Speaker 1: success will own issues. That's really important to you.

999
00:55:37,920 --> 00:55:38,080
Speaker 2: You know.

1000
00:55:38,120 --> 00:55:39,360
Speaker 1: I've often say to people, if you can have a

1001
00:55:39,360 --> 00:55:41,200
Speaker 1: co founder, they've got to think like a propriety, just

1002
00:55:41,239 --> 00:55:44,480
Speaker 1: don't have in their so hears some shares, but you're

1003
00:55:44,520 --> 00:55:48,760
Speaker 1: basically still an employee. You've got to give them the

1004
00:55:48,800 --> 00:55:52,120
Speaker 1: agency and accountability, Yeah, the agency to think like an owner.

1005
00:55:52,719 --> 00:55:54,319
Speaker 1: Not just being an owner, but think like an owner,

1006
00:55:54,320 --> 00:55:56,399
Speaker 1: because if there had to be accountable for that too.

1007
00:55:56,600 --> 00:55:59,600
Speaker 1: Like so, because you want them to every little thing

1008
00:55:59,600 --> 00:56:01,560
Speaker 1: that would go wrong, you want them to hurt, it's

1009
00:56:01,680 --> 00:56:04,319
Speaker 1: just like you do. But everything that goes right, you

1010
00:56:04,320 --> 00:56:05,799
Speaker 1: want them to celebrate, just like you do.

1011
00:56:06,120 --> 00:56:09,080
Speaker 2: Mark, I even think that having your team think like

1012
00:56:09,120 --> 00:56:09,520
Speaker 2: an owner.

1013
00:56:10,040 --> 00:56:12,919
Speaker 1: Yeah, oh that's for me, that's critical. Yeah, you want

1014
00:56:12,960 --> 00:56:16,240
Speaker 1: them to actually feel like this is their business.

1015
00:56:16,360 --> 00:56:20,040
Speaker 2: Absolutely, with a startup, you can give them shares. So

1016
00:56:20,080 --> 00:56:21,880
Speaker 2: that's the whole point. So there's a chapter on equity

1017
00:56:21,920 --> 00:56:26,080
Speaker 2: allocation and options and all of the things that really you.

1018
00:56:26,120 --> 00:56:28,920
Speaker 1: Got some structural things in there. Someone like you being

1019
00:56:28,960 --> 00:56:31,440
Speaker 1: a chine A cant you know that stuff that's your

1020
00:56:31,480 --> 00:56:33,840
Speaker 1: livelihood because a lot of people get to be confused

1021
00:56:33,880 --> 00:56:34,680
Speaker 1: how does it all work?

1022
00:56:34,920 --> 00:56:37,879
Speaker 2: Absolutely, when I was a mentor at this sink called

1023
00:56:37,920 --> 00:56:40,760
Speaker 2: start Mate, I still am. Actually I'm probably the longest

1024
00:56:40,760 --> 00:56:41,719
Speaker 2: standing person there.

1025
00:56:41,760 --> 00:56:44,480
Speaker 1: That's that's one of the vcs, aren't it.

1026
00:56:44,640 --> 00:56:49,160
Speaker 2: Yeah. It started back in twenty nine or ten with

1027
00:56:49,280 --> 00:56:50,279
Speaker 2: a guy called.

1028
00:56:51,360 --> 00:56:52,120
Speaker 1: Is that Blackbird?

1029
00:56:52,480 --> 00:56:58,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, Rick Baker and Nicki Chavrak a Blackbird and plus

1030
00:56:58,520 --> 00:57:03,520
Speaker 2: their other partners. Amazing group. But originally Nicki Shavak started

1031
00:57:04,120 --> 00:57:06,799
Speaker 2: start Mate, which was a bunch of tech founders, and

1032
00:57:07,120 --> 00:57:10,879
Speaker 2: I became one of their first ten mentors. And yeah,

1033
00:57:10,920 --> 00:57:13,040
Speaker 2: of course, because my background, every time there was a

1034
00:57:13,040 --> 00:57:15,120
Speaker 2: problem like they go to the US, can't speak to

1035
00:57:15,200 --> 00:57:17,120
Speaker 2: DK about how to set up in the US, or

1036
00:57:17,480 --> 00:57:19,880
Speaker 2: don't speak to DK about your financial model, or there's

1037
00:57:19,880 --> 00:57:22,320
Speaker 2: some flip up or tax issue, don't speak to me.

1038
00:57:22,440 --> 00:57:24,080
Speaker 2: But I was going, I don't want to just talk

1039
00:57:24,120 --> 00:57:26,840
Speaker 2: about tax, so let's talk about the product, Let's talk

1040
00:57:26,840 --> 00:57:30,200
Speaker 2: about these other things. So I always thought I'm the

1041
00:57:30,280 --> 00:57:32,480
Speaker 2: dumbest person in the room, but I was determined not

1042
00:57:32,520 --> 00:57:35,120
Speaker 2: to be. So I just focused and focused and focused

1043
00:57:35,160 --> 00:57:37,280
Speaker 2: on trying to learn as much as I could. And

1044
00:57:37,320 --> 00:57:40,120
Speaker 2: then because I met all these really cool people, I thought,

1045
00:57:40,840 --> 00:57:43,360
Speaker 2: you know, like even back to people who were spinning

1046
00:57:43,400 --> 00:57:48,400
Speaker 2: IP out of universities like Radiator Communications at Salt de Cisco.

1047
00:57:48,480 --> 00:57:51,880
Speaker 2: Of course they invented Wi Fi and just smart people going.

1048
00:57:51,920 --> 00:57:55,400
Speaker 2: This sort of ruined me for normal accounting to say,

1049
00:57:55,480 --> 00:57:58,680
Speaker 2: I want to work with people that create something and

1050
00:57:58,720 --> 00:58:01,760
Speaker 2: I want to help them sell it. Not just so

1051
00:58:01,920 --> 00:58:03,760
Speaker 2: by selling it. You've got to build the systems. You've

1052
00:58:03,760 --> 00:58:05,680
Speaker 2: got to build the team. You've got to build the

1053
00:58:05,760 --> 00:58:10,080
Speaker 2: capital the create and capture value, price, get pricing right

1054
00:58:10,600 --> 00:58:14,280
Speaker 2: and be able to scale it and hire the right

1055
00:58:14,320 --> 00:58:17,320
Speaker 2: people and get them coming back and understanding the people

1056
00:58:17,320 --> 00:58:19,000
Speaker 2: have got you there may not be the ones that

1057
00:58:19,120 --> 00:58:23,600
Speaker 2: get you there. And so constantly being curious, you're evolving.

1058
00:58:23,640 --> 00:58:26,240
Speaker 2: It doesn't stand still. Your company doesn't, your staff don't,

1059
00:58:26,880 --> 00:58:30,680
Speaker 2: your customer certainly doesn't, as you've said, Mark, So you've

1060
00:58:30,680 --> 00:58:34,120
Speaker 2: got to just get better at making narrow or missus

1061
00:58:34,120 --> 00:58:37,720
Speaker 2: as I say, so, you constantly allocating capital in the

1062
00:58:37,800 --> 00:58:41,120
Speaker 2: right direction because you're using these thinking models to help

1063
00:58:41,160 --> 00:58:44,600
Speaker 2: you pick better bets, make better bet de risk things,

1064
00:58:45,520 --> 00:58:49,760
Speaker 2: find out what people are buying, how they price. All

1065
00:58:49,800 --> 00:58:52,080
Speaker 2: of that's part of the entrepreneur's journey.

1066
00:58:52,520 --> 00:58:54,760
Speaker 1: And it's hard to encapsulate that in a couple of

1067
00:58:54,800 --> 00:58:57,680
Speaker 1: paragraphs in you in words, And I guess that's probably

1068
00:58:57,720 --> 00:58:59,760
Speaker 1: why you sit down and wrote this book, because it

1069
00:58:59,760 --> 00:59:01,800
Speaker 1: does say at the top it's a definitive guide to

1070
00:59:01,920 --> 00:59:04,560
Speaker 1: entrepreneurship in building a company, I think it's a long

1071
00:59:04,600 --> 00:59:07,920
Speaker 1: time since we needed A long time we've needed one

1072
00:59:07,920 --> 00:59:11,160
Speaker 1: of these books, and well done, David Kenny, thanks very

1073
00:59:11,240 --> 00:59:13,720
Speaker 1: much for coming on the mentor, and I hopefully I

1074
00:59:13,760 --> 00:59:16,200
Speaker 1: can get you to sign this book, and I'll be

1075
00:59:16,200 --> 00:59:18,720
Speaker 1: going through the chapters of myself because for me, I mean,

1076
00:59:18,720 --> 00:59:21,440
Speaker 1: I've done one hundred times over, but I'm always like

1077
00:59:21,520 --> 00:59:23,920
Speaker 1: to be reminded what it is I've already experienced in

1078
00:59:23,960 --> 00:59:27,200
Speaker 1: the past, and sometimes it's easy to forget. By the way, absolutely,

1079
00:59:27,200 --> 00:59:30,120
Speaker 1: I appreciate the whole point of putting in writing, putting

1080
00:59:30,160 --> 00:59:31,080
Speaker 1: it in writing and people.

1081
00:59:31,320 --> 00:59:33,479
Speaker 2: I gave it to a lot of people as a friend,

1082
00:59:33,600 --> 00:59:37,560
Speaker 2: saying you're one of the best exponents of marketing or whatever,

1083
00:59:37,600 --> 00:59:41,120
Speaker 2: and they've said, well, this is really good because it's

1084
00:59:41,160 --> 00:59:43,680
Speaker 2: reminded me of things I've forgotten. But it's also written

1085
00:59:43,680 --> 00:59:46,439
Speaker 2: in a way that is for a novice but also

1086
00:59:46,480 --> 00:59:49,960
Speaker 2: an expert by structuring it in a question based format.

1087
00:59:50,040 --> 00:59:52,520
Speaker 1: Structured is the word like nice structure.

1088
00:59:52,760 --> 00:59:54,240
Speaker 2: Thanks David, Thanks so much. Mark